The Prestige TV Podcast - ‘Task’ Episode 5: The Best Episode Yet?

Episode Date: October 6, 2025

Jo, Rob and Bill dive into the quarry for what might just be the best episode of the season, so far. (0:00) Intro (1:19) The showdown (12:26) Bad things happen at quarries (15:06) The mole reveal (21:51) Listener email: Who’s the deer? (28:32) Perry’s villainy (34:14) What happens to Maeve? (36:38) Good people rankings (38:34) Sister subplot (44:02) Predictions Email us! [e-mail] Subscribe to the Ringer TV YouTube channel here for full episodes of ‘The Prestige TV Podcast’ and so much more! Hosts: Bill Simmons, Joanna Robinson and Rob Mahoney  Producers: Kai Grady and Donnie Beacham Jr. Additional Production Support: Justin Sayles Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

The Prestige TV podcast, Episode 5, Task. Joanna Robinson is here. Rob Mahoney is here. This was a wow of an episode. A lot of answers, a lot of drama, a lot of action. Biggest answer, our guy, DJ Grasanova is the mole. Tough. Tough beat for everybody.

We like this guy. Yeah. I had kind of moved myself into, no, no, he's not in somebody else, but no. So we had that. I mean, we had a bunch of stuff in this episode. Where do you want to start, Joanna? Well, first I want to just say for the record that your text to us after you watched this episode was like eight exclamation points.

Yep. And then we responded and then you just responded with like eight more exclamation points. So you really loved this episode. It is true. It is true. I watched it right after within eight hours of when we recorded our episode four breakdown. And I actually sent you the exclamation points halfway through the episode. Oh, wow.

Oh, okay. Do you remember what it was? I went back for more exclamation points at the end. Yeah, it was a double exclamation point text. Anyway, go ahead. I think the biggest thing that happens in the episode is that Tom and Robbie finally meet. And we get not like the diner scene from heat face to face, but the car ride was sort of looking in the rearview mirror into the back seat, which I thought was electric and very good. I really, really liked it.

I think having that too where they're not face-to-faced weirdly makes it even less adversarial. Like it's these two guys who are really kind of feeling each other out, even though one of them is being held at gunpoint. And Robbie's like finding ways to like Tom over the course of that sequence to like kind of appreciate and care about him and a way that like Tom Pelfrey can really sell. Like there's just like a tenderness to him as a performer that I think makes Robbie impossible to fully root against, even though he's doing some pretty crazy things. Yeah. And they, it's a long scene because they cut away and come back. And it's probably like a three part scene. of the same scene.

I thought the same thing with heat. It's basically the heat showdown, but they invert it, so they're not face-to-face. Yeah. It's a little more tender. In heat, they're trying to, you know, find this human connection. And you're rooting for Neil McCauley, who's basically just a sociopath. Like, he has a condo with no, De Niro's character. He's condo with no furniture.

And if the heat's around the corner, he's out. Like, there's not a lot there. Tom is this really complicated. You're kind of rooting for him. You kind of see it from his side. You meet Robbie? I'm sorry, Robbie. Yeah, yeah.

I'm saying Don Pelfrey. Yeah, yeah. The Robbie is, you know, you kind of see it from his side, even though he's also a maniac. And we saw him beat the shit out of somebody in the last episode. And he shot people. But you're watching him going like, oh, man, I wish this damaged guy could just figure this out. I thought it was really great how they did it. It's been interesting because we've gotten a lot of emails from listeners or text from

colleagues or whatever who are frustrated that Robbie is so inept. And I guess the question I have is like, does he need to be a really good criminal for us to be interested in his story? And if the story of this episode, which is titled Vagrin and there's this whole runner about, you know, the summer tanager, which we could talk about in a second and all of that, he's a bird who's lost his way. And so he's not a career criminal. He's not De Niro and Heath, right? He is like a guy who was trying to do a thing in a half-hearted sort of attempt at revenge and something else. And he sort of bumbled his way into like deep waters that he can't find his way out of. And so I don't need him to be really good. I don't mind that he keeps making mistakes because this isn't what he does.

This is something that he has been trying. Yeah. And we like him and he's just floundering. You know what I mean? He just needs to be like a little better than dumb. And I think he clears it. Like he's just clever enough that it's like, okay, he kind of knows what's going on. He kind of knows like, okay, the cop car would be traceable, but this one isn't. We need to get off the highway here, so it's a little harder for them to find us. Like, he knows just enough that you're not frustrated by his decision making. At least I'm not frustrated by his decision making. And it also, like him being in that zone of sometimes kind of inept, but really ultimately quite desperate,

I think is what makes him such a good foil for Tom, who is an okay cop, like good at something. things, not so great at other things, but ultimately, like, not an ace detective by any means. Yeah, it was funny. The showdown of them, it's basically two guys who are slightly above average at their jobs. Right. Robbie's smart enough to realize the peed in sound right. Tom's probably there looking for him. He circles around the back, puts the gun to his head. Tom's not smart enough to realize Robbie probably has already figured out who he is and he's in real danger. And then when we get into the car, Robbie's not smart enough to realize I'm going to let this guy go and they're just going to

probably come find me in the next two hours. Like if you're like Neil McCauley shoots him in the leg or something. Right. He's limping. So it takes him three hours to get out of the woods. Yeah, he's not, he's not Neil McCauley. He doesn't have it all buttoned up. And he even, Joanna just has, he just has to fill that Pennsylvania water on him to make.

It's his real kryptonite. He can't make a decision or really certain any impact. He's got to get a little of that cold Pennsylvania water. in your water on his chest. Yeah. And of course, that costs them at the end. Yeah. But, you know, he's a C plus criminal.

Yeah. And that's okay. That's enough. That's passing enough for me. But he's like, he's a really compelling character. And his bid for Maeve safety there at the end, him letting Tom go and Tom does not think he's going to let him go. When he says you'll see it, it's beautiful.

And I don't know if he means the lake, but that moment when Tom stumbles out of the woods and it's just all these people living their lives when he thought he was about to die and then his first call is to Emily. Like that really impacted me. I thought that was just stunning part of this episode. Cliff, Cliff terrible criminal, by the way. Cliff F plus.

Well, but kept his mouth shut to a bitter end. So loyal, you know. Sure. But also photographic evidence on the fridge. Yeah. It's just terrible. What were you going to say, Rob? I just think the fact that we do hit those like emotional contemplative beats.

Like this is a huge episode for like staring at the sun, steepling through the trees. Sometimes that lets Perry catch up and drown you in a lake. But sometimes it's just this really sweet sort of character beat and moment and like pause in what ultimately is like a really propulsive plot heavy episode. And so the fact that we can have all of that at once, I think is what makes this the most effective episode of the season so far. Let's dive into the car scene quickly and then we'll hit.

hit the other stuff. The, the piss tell. That's where you're like, maybe Tom's even a D plus as a like he's just pouring a Coke in a toilet. That was bad.

That does not sound like pee. But I really liked his fumble bumble. I'm so dumb routine. I'm so old and dumb routine that he was giving. Like I thought that was really fun. Did we think that was Robbie, was Robbie flexing on him later with his steady stream? You know,

when he stops for his own pee break. Is this saying? Oh. It's like a prostate. versus prostate battle. Classic prostate versus prostate. And I have to say, we know who won that one.

Yeah, we do. I wrote that it was the Mumblecore heat showdown. It was like directed by the Duplas brothers. Yeah, yeah, yeah. With one guy in the car seat. Robbie tells them the whole story.

We get God involved because, of course, that's a stealth theme of this show. Robbie says, I never once felt God in my life. I think people want to believe there's more than this because if this is all there is it's too fucking oppressing for people there's nothing else after this

we're just hitting the theme of the show I guess like this is your one life and sometimes that's not going to work out the way you thought it was and then you're going to do that sometimes not only your brother gets killed by a psychopath motorcycle gang leader but also your best friend

and it's your fault sometimes Jason wins twice and that's terrible for Robbie but I love when Bobby said he was hashtag Team Susan in the car on the sort of like atheist believer side. I like learning a bit more about Tom and Susan's how they came together in the first place. Tom is doing that thing that I learned from Oprah when I was a kid, which is you're supposed to humanize yourself to your kidnapper, right? So you're supposed to tell them personal details about

yourself. Here's my main nit to pick with this episode. And in general, there's a lot that I can let Tass get away with. Like, why have the cops not? interrogated Cliff's garbage colleagues or anything like that. Like, I can let them get away with that. Robbie having serious satellite radio at his car, I'm not sure that's an expense that he is paying for. What do you think? I think maybe the reception, maybe the reception his area for Eagles games isn't the best,

you know, and it's like, we really, like, there's one thing you simply cannot live without, and that's enough for him. Also, is that true that anyone with serious satellite radio is, trackable? Surveillance state, baby. Apparently. I was a little concerned hearing that that the serious people can track me. My take, so I did think about this. I think Robbie was probably signed up for the free trial and then was too stupid to cancel it. And it's just paying for it and it's like, God, I wish I wasn't paying this 1999. But you might need it in the backwoods of wherever he lives. That's true. That is a really good note though, Joanna.

I liked when he said I kidnapped the world's most depressing human. Yeah. It was really funny. But Tom doing the, can I just call my kids? Can I just call my kids? Great. Yeah. Great.

Here's what to do if you've been kidnapped. At some point during this car ride, I realized Tom wasn't going to get killed, which were you guys on the same thing? Or did you think he was going to get shot at that? Partly because it is Mark Ruffalo, who's the story of the show. It's episode five. Yeah, exactly. That's why I wasn't worried about Tom.

But like, do you feel it all to you? You know, CR texted me after he watched this episode and he was like, his concern is that they're maybe dragging it out a little bit. Like, does it feel like in episode five we see them meet and then release and then we're headed into episode six for, you know, everyone's converging in the woods. What is episode? Like, you know, I'm not that worried. I'm eager to see and I loved this episode. I thought this was the best of the season. So I think it will have to say.

see, but I don't know, did you feel that way at all that it was just sort of like too soon to have all of this converge with two more episodes to go or not worried about it at all? Well, it is, you know, the heat formula is here, right? The meeting and then the chase, that's all there. But it's still a season of TV. And I feel like a show like this has as much in common with like top of the lake where it's like there's kind of an episode of like fallout, right? It's like maybe everything gets kind of like technically wrapped up in six. And then seven is more, you know, the brand is home life. It's, you know, you know, the brand is home life. If it's, you know, if Perry's still alive, reckoning with everything that he's done to get here.

It's like, how is this all settling with these characters? And honestly, these characters are rich enough that I think it deserves that kind of introspection. He at least sticks up for Maeve, our girl. Yeah. Robbie. I'm really worried about Maeve. Not just sticks up for her, though, but like him, like, ultimately the fact that their meeting culminates in, like, both of them kind of like asking for help is so. interesting. It's like Robbie kind of pleading with Tom. Like please like you're you are the only person

who can vouch for her basically in these circumstances. And Tom, you know, trying to talk him out of doing something dumb and also save his own life in the process. Like just a really fascinating collision of those characters. I just, I just, I just want to call my kids. I just can I just, just want to call him. I just please can I call him? We're in the woods a lot in this show. And we're by bodies of water and like we had some. incredible text from our friend Dave Jacoby. Yes. About the quarry, the lake.

He doesn't really understand quarries at all, which is a big side track for us. But it does seem like when a quarry is involved in any movie or TV show, it's usually a place to either die or get paralyzed or have something horrible happen while at the same time seeming really peaceful. And I was just trying to think of other, like times where the quarry was. was just used in a way where it was just fine. Just a nice happy place. No, no violence or negativity at all. And I think Jacoby's right. It seems negative.

In Coda, which is like our introduction to Amelia Jones, I feel like she swims in a quarry a couple times in a way that is just like nice and idyllic. Or what's the difference between a lake? What's the difference between a lake and a quarry? I guess is my question. Many people are asking. Yeah, I think there's got to be some rock form. distinction or like some containment of the body of water.

I don't know. This is all above our pay. What's on the bottom? Are there like giant rocks? Like you could dive in and just hit your head on a rock? I don't know. I just need more information. You got to be careful for sure.

But I think, look, this kind of backdoors into one of the potential predictions coming out of this episode, which is what is the thing that Alia will not be able to smell that will become a critical plot device? And is the answer, you know, she goes for a dip in like the foul, toxic. part of the quarry. Wow. Right. Check off sense of smell.

Interesting. Look, it's coming back. She's going to, she's going to smell Aaron? Maybe she will. She's like, I think of pose a body. I thought that was more to like show her connection to Lizzie. That exchange was just, well, two things I got out of that. There is, Alia can't smell things.

That is, you're right, Rob. That is something to know. I think her, when she describes calling her exes, parole officer and pretending that it's a federal case or something like that, that shows her willingness to slightly bend the rules if there is a greater good involved, right? So in the rat hunt for Grasso, which has got to be something that happens at some point, like how much will Aalya be like playing it by the books or how much will she bend the rules for the greater good or something like that? I don't know. Let's take a break and we'll hit the, uh, the, the

rest of the big things that happen this episode. This message is brought to you by Apple Card. Hey, you could be earning 2% daily cash back on that purchase. And that one. And even that one. That's because Apple Card users earn 2% daily cash back on every purchase, including everyday items they buy online or in store when using their Apple Card with Apple Pay. Not an Apple Card customer?

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The other big revelation, DJ Grasanova was the mole and completely changed how you watched him as a character. But he also did a nice job of, it was a little Matt Damon in The Departed where he's on the phone trying to figure out how to get. had to alert his biker gang buddies but couldn't and he's just all the sudden very shifty and I also liked when they when he met he met our guy Jason under the bridge and I like when they have the interactions and at some point Jason's like remember who you're talking to like there's a lot of good tropes in this episode but what did we think of DJ Rob where you walk us through your emotions I mean on the one level we were expecting it on the other I have been look Joe has been spot on on predictions all season. Joe, I feel like you've been nailing development after development.

I have been in my approach a little more like drooping Pepsi dribbles into the toilet and barely hitting the bowl. So we've hit at some point that Grasso could be the, could be the mole, but it also seemed like they were fainting maybe and it would actually end up being someone else. I think all we know at this point is that he is one of the moles. And one of the dangling loose ends is still like, we don't know what overdressed Connor came up with in terms of digging into the task force. And maybe that is just a means to them all to find Grasso in the end. But maybe it could have some other little complicating reveal along the way. So we still think the door is open for Martha Plimpton's character to be mole number two?

Maybe. I don't know. Here's my main question about good old DJ Grasanova. How much would you guys pay for a post-divorced house exorcism? which is something that he was looking into on his phone. Well, then Lizzie sent him as a shit post basically. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Was $1.99 the going rate? It was more than I would pay, personally.

You're not getting the couple from the conjuring. I'm guessing for that. Probably like somebody way more discount. The grass is slang to like rat on someone, right? Like to grass on someone. is a snitch on someone. News to me. Isn't that the case?

He always learned slang from Joanna. It's always an unexpected bonus of posting a pod with her. Is that what it is? Is that true? I make to grass on someone is to like to snitch on someone. So can we walk through? How does he meet these guys? What's the history?

Because you talked about, we have two episodes left. Yeah. What are the two episodes? There's still a lot of flashback stuff we haven't done yet. We don't know the history of him with the biker gang. We still know. We, we, we deeply, deeply, deeply believed there was going to be a 2017 flashback to where was that fighting in Redding?

Redding, yeah. Right. Yeah. I'm feeling less. I feel like less like that's going to happen. Yeah, maybe it's not enough time. Like, Perry already has all the information. We have everything.

We have everything. We have everything. The information he needs. He knows that it was Billy's gun. He knows that it's Robbie. Like, we know everything. Like, what is there left to learn from Redding? flashback, you know what I mean?

Well, I mean, there's one thing left to learn if our guy, DJ Grasanova was in the footage. They're studying the footage and they see him. See, I feel like they probably go way back. You know, like, we know that he was DJ Grosanova. We don't necessarily know that he worked alone. Like, Grasanova feels to me like the DJ who is all technique, just, you know, behind the scenes. Doesn't want to be the vocal MC presence. Maybe Jason is the frontman.

Maybe he's the hype man. You think Jason has the charisma to be the front man of a two-person DJ team? You know what? Not all of us have the luxury of our theories being correct, Joe. Some of us are just out here throwing things at the ball. Good old Jason who walks in covered in blood and like grunts in Aaron's direction. That guy? I don't know.

Can I posit this one? He said he was a DJ in college. Yeah. Is it possible never went to college? I'm beating to question everything he's ever told us. Like he was the DJ for the biker gang? It's true. Oh, a bike, do you think he was DJing the cookout and Redding?

That was his thing with the biker gang. Okay. Yeah. I don't know. I just, whenever they do these. We pan across the Redding shootout footage and behind the turtables is DJ Grazano. I think Fabian, I think Fabian Frankel, who's the actor who's playing our good old DJ Grasanova is so good.

Me too. He's really good on House of the Dragon, a show that I know you guys, or I know that Bill doesn't watch. But like the way that he's, there's a lot in common between his two characters, especially now that I know that he's a double-crosser. So there's a lot in common, but he's convincing me of his sort of, I'm an American, you know, Philly accent. And I don't know.

I just, I feel like this is going to be a big launching point for him. Like I feel like other people are going to cast him out of this show. I couldn't agree more. I think he's a leading man guy. Yeah. There's no question. Really good. I could totally see him.

And all kinds of stuff. So, well, here's a question about Grasso as a character, though. Like, we see this meeting with Jason. Bill, you're right. We get the trope of like, remember who you're talking to. We also get, though, by the end, Grasso in his desperation, kind of barking orders of his own, which also makes me think, like, they have a longer history than just like a guy who is subservient to the assistant or regional manager of the dark hearts or whatever.

But what is it that we think that Grasso is after? Because he seems to be, like, kind of, like, he's concerned about Tom. It seems genuinely. He's helping Jason. Is he trying to help the dark hearts get their drugs back, but also get, whether it's the valor or the commendation or just to save this kid's life to like also bring in Sam? Like, are those the goals? And is it possible he's like kind of straddling both lines in a way that's like attempting

to be somewhat helpful, if not entirely honest? I mean, I think he cares about Lizzie and I think he cares about Tom. Like I genuinely do. And so that puts. him in this huge conflicted space as we head into this everyone's converging on the cabin showdown in the next episode. And I am very worried because he's paired off with Lizzie. It's like Grasso and Lizzie are paired off walking into the woods where all the, like the MC is. And that is really scary. Can I read you the part of the craziest email we got? Did you see this email, Rob?

No, I just can't believe it took us this long to put MC and MC together. Like, again, Grasso and Jason, I think there's something there. The motorcycle emcee. Okay. So our listener Maria was like going back to the whole Sam talking about deer crossing the road. And we do see a dead deer on the side of the road as Tom and Robbie are driving. She's like, Sam's not the deer. She's like, Lizzie is the deer.

Lizzie is the one who freezes when it's most important. This is what she wrote. She said, Lizzie and the chase isn't the hunter, but the runner, not the prey, but not the full-blown predator. Either Grasso and Alea tackle the robbers like wolves as Lizzie bolts over fences and through traffic just to get in a position where she's in over her head and her life is in danger. She tells Grasso in the moment that she is paralyzed by the pressure of making the right choice. We've been talking about this all season of like if Grasso is, you know, a rat or a mole rather, or Lizzie is there will be a confrontation. This is something that we had wondered about because Lizzie freezing has been sort of stressed so much. much. And so, like, is this, is she going, is she the deer that's going to freeze in the

headlights and, and get got because she can't make a move? Or is she going to, as we were sort of wondering, finally be able to make her move that she hasn't been able to make all season? Like, what kind of show are we watching? I'm glad, well, this was going to be one of my predictions later. I'm doing it now. Okay. The bridge was that wide shot of the bridge with people going two different ways. It was really interesting. Lizzie going with DJ Grass Nova. Yeah. Scary.

Made me think we're headed toward a moment where they run into at least a couple of the biker gang people. Yeah. And somebody says, Grasso, what do you, like she realizes they know him and freezes and then he has to kill her. Oh.

I hope to throw that one out there. I mean, yeah. Go ahead. Bill, let me ask your managerial opinion on something. If you were running a task force and you had a moment like this where you're all converging in the woods and you have a team of three.

and you have a team of three and a team of two, which team are you putting the woman who freezes on? Are you putting her on the team of three or the team of two? Yeah, I want a three person. It feels like that. It's not having a non-shooter from this state. You can't have two non-shooters together in the NBA. Lizzie's Andre Robertson just waiting in the corner for her moment, but it's tough.

Right. I think what Rob said earlier, I think this is going to be how they land the plane on this show, whether this ends up being a great show or not. And I don't know where it's going to go. I think we felt after two episodes this had a potential to be a Hall of Fame HBO show, right? How they land the plane with Grasso is going to determine that. Yeah. Because they only have two hours left.

If I'm not convinced, like, oh, that was fucking stupid. Like, he's like the classic. Oh, he was working for the other side. But then he still, he cares about Tom and he cares about Lizzie. There's too much going on with him. And if they don't unwind that, I don't think the show is going to. hit the levels that it needs to. Here's my question.

We're talking so much about, like, Lizzie and Grasso. From the start, Robbie has, we're like, Robbie's cooked, right? This episode, all the talk about, you know, vagrant birds and stuff like that makes it more clear than ever before that, you know, he knows he's done. Like, he's done, right? And so that's never been the tension. And so what if, like, sort of hidden is the real tension is what's going on with Grasso? and Lizzie and agendas and will they figure it out and all of that,

like that the back couple episodes are less about what will happen to Robbie, we know. Yes. How it will happen and we don't know, but we know that like, I mean, I don't think he's surviving this series. We've said that from the start, right? But like, so that's not a tension. But like what's going to happen to Grasso, a character we like kind of do care about even as we're like this guy is responsible for Cliff getting brutally,

beat to death in last episode and stuff like that, that's sort of the hidden day de du ma'an of the whole story, you know? But if that is our assumption, it has been that Robbie is going to get caught or got in the end, wouldn't him getting away be the most subversive thing that the show could do?

Like, if there's all this fallout, including maybe to Mae and or Sam, but Robbie somehow gets away, I could see that being something that the show is interesting in, interested in. I could also see a situation with Grasso where Lizzie dies and maybe even Jason dies, like the two people he's kind of connected to on both sides, but he in kind of straddling the line winds up surviving, but also like paying a really huge price for everything that's happened. Can I give you one more scenario? Please.

The biker gang takes Lizzie. Oh, no. Second kidnapping. Oh, boy. Oh, no. And then they try to get information from her but grasso is on that side and then has to be in the position of i liked lizzie do i protect her we did make out on a couch once we we got the most uh number of emails from people uh were about our request to try to identify what season we're in and we could talk about that whether or not we want to but like as we go into this shootout lizzie is already like slick with sweat Like she is already pouring sweat. And it's not summer.

We know that for sure because Tom made so much about the fact that the summer tanager is here. And so it's not tanager season. There's baseball. So it can't be later than September. Right. I think basically we've we had right. Rob, we had so many emails about this. So many.

People were like tracking Phillies games, tracking when the water ice places open, tracking bird migration patterns. Oh, it was amazing. The fact that Tom has tomatoes from his garden. Yep. So, and then the kids are all, we saw Emily in school in this episode. The kids are in school. So I think it is September.

I think that's, that's what we've figured out. We had some other things happen in this episode. We had, uh, Robbie went to see Freddie. We got Freddie Freed us back in our life. sort of that was really fun i mean i don't know i felt a little like anticlimactic to me like i was just i was happy to see him again yeah well i think they's had to set the tone for he's going to be more involved in these last two episodes right it was a little tester but i like that he had his protege he had he had his he's the veto corleone he had his little michael corleone at his side

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Nice goes to the Mave's house I really like that scene the tension of it Because it wasn't really good They're both I thought she handled it really well But the tension of that of all that But he's just he's like something stinks here I'm going to figure this out And then all of a sudden finds the landing space

And now I have a little quarry little quarry race with you little a little 100 meter freestyle and guess what

Aaron and too many cigarettes for her Perry's in boots he's setting records out there somehow is an amazing technique from him

what an athlete here's my question about Aaron drowning in the quarry does that now mean we don't

expect Sammy to drown the quarry if like can we have two well that's the same that Sam's the police

yeah You might not see him. Yeah. I'm not going to get my crows scattering as he gets shot in the woods moment that I predicted. I guess I'll take the L in that one. But yeah, do we see Sam again? Like, so I don't know. There's a lot going on here.

I also like Perry being surprised he killed Aaron after he drowned her was just, I thought that was kind of a weird scene. It felt kind of like of mice and many to me and sort of like, I don't know my own strength sort of thing. Yeah. That he was so concerned with keeping her quiet. I think what I'm really missing this season and what I would love to know more about, and I've already raised this, is like the Perry Jason connection. Like, why is Perry so protective of tender towards Jason? Because the fact that he has now killed the mother of Jason's children is, of course, this big ticking time mom inside of the MC. And so the level of that betrayal, like why he would feel so guilty about, I mean, you should feel guilty if you kill a woman. Like that's, you know, whatever.

But like, um. A bold stance, Joe. Thank you. I like to take it. I like to even throw in all human beings. Oh. Okay. Yeah.

You're right. Animals, too. Sure. You guys, why not? Spread it around. But murder should bring some guilt. But the fact that it's Jason's, like the mother of Jason's kids, Jason's wife. Yeah.

Like is an extra layer of something for Perry. And I would really like to know why Perry and Jason have this connection and what. Counter. You know? Counter. She did this whole basically this drug stealing ring against the biker gang. She had to go. They're going to keep their rep.

She went against the gang. But that needs to be a decision Jason's involved in. You know what I mean? The whole like mother of my children like weird sort of Omar Ta shit inside of. We've got to get the council together on that. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, I don't know where you have that combo. But hey, your wife has to go.

she's stole a lot of drugs from us. I don't know how she comes back from that with the rules and laws of the biker gang, Rob. Oh, I thought you meant back from the dead in the lake. Well, back from that either. That's a different show. No, no, I don't think she was coming back. And ultimately, like, Jason probably would have understood

if presented in that way. I do agree with you, Joe, though. It feels like we're missing, like, one Perry Jason beat. I like that we get to a place where this guy who we have seen just be like so hard-edged is kind of breaking down and a little shaken up by what he has proven to be capable of. And I think that is because this is a personal thing,

because he's reacting to Aaron the way that Jason reacted to finding out that Aaron cheated on him. It's like this emotional, impulsive outburst from this person who has been so procedural. And like that part I like, how we got here, I feel like I'm just like missing a little bit of thread. Well, I have a friend who has a smoking hot theory that Perry and Jason might be romantically involved.

a little bit. Wow. Love this. I need the Perry Jason fan cams. That one scene when Perry was like their heads were really close and they were spitting on each other. It was like, eh, it was a little weird. That was just for play. Yeah, it was like something, something about that interaction. Anyway, I don't

agree with that theory, but I thought it was interesting. That certainly would fill in some blanks with what we're talking about. Perry also might just be a homicidal maniac. Could be. But I like what Rob's point about it. He's been so in control, well, to a certain degree, but like he's been the one, we were just remarking last episode about like Detective Perry and then he shows

of at Maeve's house and he gets, he sees the photo of Cliff and Robbie, you know, he does miss the kid hiding in the chicken coop, which actually, one of our listeners called that, that Sammy would be hiding in the chicken coop at one point. I was like, that's really good prediction. Well done. But like, that whole thing was so tense. Perry definitely was like, fuck your clean floors, even though that was a lie that Mayve told. I love how later he just walked in with his boots. He's like, I don't give a shit about your floor story. He knows Maeve is lying.

When he says, remember your family, it's such a threat. It's so scary. So to have like, yeah, Perry, menacing, in control, all this sort of stuff, just lose it on Aaron and now have to hide that from Jason. I mean, I think you're right, Bill, that if he told Jason, like, Aaron betrayed portrayed the family she had to go but that's not the route he's taking he's taking i got to hide this and now that is definitely going to explode on him somehow right also he's got to make up with his girlfriend after the bathroom door in so that was pretty rough d you can do better i swear to you

you can so step up from the from the coffee uh well then the other one is may brought sam to the police she said fuck it which it's funny because we've wasted you know i i think some minutes in the first four episodes and then the whole Sam going to the police, we don't even see him in the holding thing. He's just gone. Like we don't even see where he is. Yeah. I thought that was a pretty good scene with Martha Punta, though. So what happens to Maeve now? I think she might also be off the board in terms of potential tragic death. Because if she's at least going to be in custody for questioning, I would think, in connection to all this. And maybe Tom gets her off the hook. Maybe he doesn't. We'll have to see kind of what her fate is. But I don't think

she's getting caught in a crossfire anytime soon. What do you think, Jeff? Yeah, I do think Maeve is safe from death, but I'm worried is she safe from being blamed for all of this sort of criminally. So yeah, that's the question. Can Tom get Maeve off the hook in a way

that he kind of promised Robbie that he could, you know? Or does Maeve get out of all of this and the show ends with Maeve on the highway? Tuesday's gone. away. We get the Alman Brothers and we just see the car zooming off in the distance. Bill, I hate to do this to you.

We did get a lot of emails that Tuesday's gone as a Leonard-Skittard song and not an almond brother song. Good point. Yeah, I did mix that up. I was not going to say anything. I just want to say I've been mixing up those bands since the, since the early days. And I think that's fair. Not the only one.

I mean, that's fair. What would be the Almond brothers? I still like the Tuesday's gone. I think that's the call. Yeah. They're both on smooth, serious, country radio or whatever, or at least adjacent to it. Do you think Robbie Spring for the family plan does like Mave also have serious X

radio in her car? That man is not bought a thing for Mave. Ain't wasting time no more doesn't work for the Mave driving away. I think it's got to be Tuesday's gone. Okay. Some Skinner. Sorry, Leonard Skinner. Sorry, I gave you the wrong thing.

So as she is driving off into the distance, does she just have to raise her two cousins as her own children? Like, is that just her fate for the rest of her life? She's moving to Hollywood to become a waitress. Mel's Diner, try to get some acting. She promised that girl she would not leave her. You think she's going to leave her with her co-worker? I don't know.

She's out. I love how her coworker was like, um, for how long though? Reasonable question. Very reasonable question. How long am I watching these children? The other piece. Well, we forgot at the beginning. Robbie goes to, to kill scary face Ray.

Hmm. And then runs into the wife and the wife's basically like, I'm a good person. Take me with you. I'm a good person. That's why I want to sell all this dope. Come on. Yeah.

That's why I broke into your house with a ski or Cliff's house with a ski mask. I wrote down in all caps here after this scene. Are there any good people on this show other than Mave? I guess Tom, who else? If you just had your good people rankings, do we have five? Gertie number one, unimpeachable. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Sammy, good old Sammy.

Yeah, Sam, fine. The children. There's four. we don't know if Martha Plimpton if Martha Plimpton isn't a mole but merely an emotional eater I'm willing to put her on the good person list you know look very relatable yeah yeah that was pretty funny though to go back to our bagel conversation previously that was one of the like worst looking bagels I've ever seen my entire life the pole she has to get that bite it was like a no no no tough not good

And Tom, I mean, I'm sorry, Robbie, there might be a good person deep down there, but he's also a violent sociopath, so I can't put him in the rankings. I think we're less than five total for the show. Which makes it a classic HBO Brad English. That's fair. I think Lizzie's a good person, right? Maybe. I,ish. If she's not the ball.

I think we've known, like, they've given us so many Lizzie scenes. explaining who she is. So like, a good person if probably should not be in this job person, you know, but not about. And Alia, right? Yes. I think Alia, we have no reason to think or suspect that she's not a good person. Yeah. So how did we feel about that whole subplot?

Because they, they had the two sisters in the kitchen and they're still, they want us to care about this. And I don't. And every time I don't care. And it's just no matter how good the show is, they always have to have this one. plot that's happening over here and you're like oh here we go yeah got to bang out another four minutes with these two i think it's it's too bad that that is a like i cared that emily answered the phone that tom called emily like i cared about that but sarah and emily in the kitchen

i had a hard time with sarah's whole story about her husband and the infidelity i did like sarah asking like how long have you felt like you could only feel gratitude um i did like that moment but i yeah that whole everything with Sarah, Emily, and Ethan, like, it's not jelling the way that the rest of the story. Like, I'm so invested in Maeve and I'm just like not invested in Emily and Sarah the way that the show wants me to be. Interesting on paper. Like, again, some of the ideas, and as you're saying, Joe, like them having a moment to confront this idea of what has been hanging over Emily her whole life. Like, that could be a good scene. This one just felt like really a little stale, to be honest with you, like very flat. And I think some of it, like, I know there are many different kinds

of families. There are many different kinds of affection. The brandis is are not huggers. So the idea of having your like heart to heart be, I don't want you to feel that way anymore. And my response is to put out my cigarette and walk away. It just felt very cold. Yeah. And it's like maybe your husband traded you in for a younger version of yourself because the younger version isn't drinking wine like it's fucking a 50 ounce Diet Coke at a Dodger game. We don't know when the wine goes. Maybe that's one of the reasons. We don't know when the wine goes.

That feels like a post infidelity. That's a compensation. Wine issue. Oh, you think it's a response. He is the reason she is. It's not Sarah's fault. I don't think that Andy found new co-counsel. Like, I just don't think that that's necessarily her bag.

I don't think you just immediately start drinking 20 ounce wines. That'd be my take. That's true. You got to build up to that. 16 ounces. Perhaps. You're not just graduating to that right away. Anyway, I don't like that character and I wish you wasn't on the show.

It's not great. And I think you referenced this earlier that we're in this like riveting car chase or car scene and cutting away a couple times. And when we cut away to Tom's colleagues frantically trying to figure out where he is, that's one kind of energy. But to cut away to this like resolution between two characters that we're having trouble sort of relating to. and it's taking us away from this other scene that is so good, that doesn't do it any favors either. We could have seen Robbie touch the Pennsylvania water for a third time. I mean, listen,

what about nine more flashbacks of Robbie and his brother jumping into quarry? I would like it, you know? You know what? I'm not mad at any of it. The water on the shoulders, the flashbacks, the bird metaphors, the talk about God.

Like, hell yeah, brother for me, honestly. Come on. Like, this is why I'm here. The vagrant stuff was really good. Rob, I have a really important question for you. When, after he's talking to Aaron, Robbie looks up and sees the bird in the sky. Did it remind you of the episode of the Sopranos College

when after Tony Sopranos kills someone, he looks up in the sky and sort of regards the flying birds? Did it that ping for you, Rob? Look at us. It's two people who have now seen some episodes of the Sopranos. Proud dad. We are but fledgling ducks flying. out of the pool ourselves.

I wrote down the quarry flashback to start the show with the two brothers, where it's like they're putting the water themselves. I wrote down, thank God Robbie had the peace and calm of that quarry growing up because he never would have become a murdering fentanyl dealing garbage man. Thank God. Thank God. That was his happy place.

What could have gone wrong if you didn't have it? I do like the back tattoos, though, and the fact that Robbie's tattoo now has the dates of Billy's like birth and death underneath that matching tattoo. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I like it as a visual shorthand for these brothers and like, you know, every time we've seen their bare backs, whether as teens or as adults, it's like, this is this thing that unites them. I think it's great. He really loved his brother. All right. I also, well, I also do love the water stuff as like, I mean, the conversation between Robbie and Aaron at the quarry, I think is just really, really great. And in particular, Pelfrey in that scene, like the don't fucking.

touch me right now. Like he's this, this character's like losing his shit in slow motion and constantly having to calm himself. Yeah. And so from that perspective, like I like the water as a moment as like a beat to say like, you know, self-soothing in a moment of absolute panic.

I thought Pelfrey's, Pelfry was so good there. All the play of emotion on his face with Aaron. And then similarly at the end, when Tom draws on him says his name loud enough for Jason to hear, not great. But Tom draws on him. And then all the play of emotion on Robbie's face of like, what do I do here before he draws back?

Don't forget the sound piece of it too, whatever they did with the audio for now. The water picked up. The voices really dropped. I thought it was cool. It was really good. Really good. Predictions. What do we got for episode six?

My first prediction question, does Robbie make it to episode seven? I'm going to flip and say he survives. I'm talking myself into this in real time that Robbie will get out of this show alive. Slithers out of it somehow? Somehow slith. Like he'll be the last man standing on a standoff in which everyone else dies basically. And somehow he gets out of it. Are we getting a Tarantino three-way shootout?

One can only hope. Because we had the triangle coming in. Yeah. Here's my question. I like Rob's point about the fact that this is the kind of, like, if we use Merri of East Town as a blueprint, that's a show that had a lot of like, how does Julianne Nicholson feel about everything that had, like a lot of wrap up room at the end of sort of the climax of that show. So Robbie either dying in episode six or at the beginning of seven, you know what I mean? Like gets shot at the end of six and then makes it to seven or something like that. kind of makes sense for me that it won't be what's happening with Robbie up until the very end. We can't possibly do that for two more episodes when everyone is surrounding him at the river. I'm actually most excited to see what Grasso does with all of the things pulling on him between his motorcycle allegiance and Lizzie and Tom.

how does he handle all of that inside of one of these situations where as martha plimpton was careful to tell us they don't have any reception so he can't send any sneaky texts it's it's all got to be like on the ground sort of communication how is how is that going to work out well key point here the bridge they went two separate rays right we know where where tom is is where all the action's going to be right So Lizzie and Grasso are all the way, if there's any gunfire, it's going to take them probably six, seven minutes just to run the other way to catch up with what happens, right? So all the action is going to be, who else was with Tom, Alia? And Martin. And Martin, yeah. Right. So it's the three of them in that gunfight and then Grasso coming in late. Where's the MC?

Which side of the bridge is the MC on? And they could split up, right? Like you could see Perry taking some guys one way, Jason taking. some guys the other way. Like, Grasso and Lizzie have to run into the dark hearts. Yeah. Like, I think, narratively speaking, they have to do it. So Lizzie, the options are get shot, gets kidnapped,

changes jobs, realizes Grasso's the mall and shoots him. Yeah. Any other possibilities? Not that I can think of. I'm really nervous. I'm really nervous. They've done a good job. Even though we've been like theorizing this from the beginning, like the Lizzie Grasso

flirtation. and affection and that connection into this trap. Again, I'm not nervous about Robbie because I don't think he's going to make it. So I'm just sort of like, Robbie's going to die one way or another is how I feel. Joanna Robinson doesn't care that Robbie's kids are going to be orphaned by episode seven. Just absolutely brutal stuff. Mave exists for a reason in the plot. Yeah.

Yeah. It's a, Mave sticks around probably. Yeah. And then Sam, we just never see again? We got to see him by seven. He has to have a landing spot, I would think. Yeah, where is it? He has to be okay.

So where does he land? Hopefully not in the system somehow. So like, is he, is he about, do they put it back with Maeve? That seems like an insane thing to do. But like, is that something that they would do? We did have that listener suggest that he wind up with Tom because they're both like animals so much. So does Tom do like do over adoption with a new, new kid?

Oh, Rob's making a major face right now. Well, it's because it's tough. It's not great. I don't love my first adopted son murdered, like manslaughtered slash third degree murdered my wife. So I'm just going to adopt a new son. I agree. That's tough. It's tough.

So Mave's driving away to the almond brother, Lenin Skinner, Tuesday gone. She's going away. Sam and Mave's oldest one that she said we're going to protect both now living with Tom and they're feeding animals in the back. And that's how the show ends. Does Tom also adopt Gertie? That's my question. Tom's adopting everybody. Tom adopts Lizzie.

Lizzie's moving in too. It's a real Brady Bunch situation by the end. Speaking of Tom, when do we get the trial? Maybe never. Or the hearing to see if the sun, wasn't that like right around the timeline we have right now? So we have two episodes left for that. Right. And he talked about like, yeah, he's got to figure his shit out enough to go to the trials and things like that.

Most, I just Googled. this because I didn't know. Most of the Alman brothers are not alive anymore. But I think some are and it is not too late maybe for there to be an almond brother's cover of Tuesday's gone just for Bill. Well, they both had

the Almond Brothers and Leonard Skinner both lost band members at like the peak of their power. Yeah, I know, but there's like some surviving members I think. Yeah, they could just, they always should just combine. Does Robbie play bass? Like maybe there's a future career for him off the grid somewhere. You know, just get out of this life. Maybe it's

Maybe it's time for DJ Grasanova to give us like a mashup of Leonard's Dinner's Tuesdays Gone and an Allman Brothers song just to like really. Classic girl talk material. Does DJ Grasanova make it to the end of episode seven? I think he does. The end of the show. But does he make it alive? Alive but in custody or?

Yeah, that part I don't know. Well, here's my next question. And this is going to get, I think, a lean back mouth. face thing from Joanna. Are we sure this is a one-season show? As can you shall receive? Because the smart move, you always do this to me, Bill.

You always do this to me. The smart move, if this is going to be a more than one-season show, is for everything gets resolved, but DJ Grasanova is like the hero of this and becomes the centerpiece of season two as they try to realize like, wait a second. And now he's with the biker gang and he's trying to juggle these two identities.

Basically Matt Damon in the last 20 minutes of the departed after he actually gets away because spoiler alert, Leo gets shot. Movs been out for 20 years, sorry. But when Damon gets away and gets away with it, maybe that could be season two of this show. Who's Donnie Wahlberg in season two of this show? That's my question.

Oh, yeah. But yeah, but that's like mayor of East Town. We knew that was a one and done. know if this is a one and done. They've never said anything. Oh, um, yeah, I, I haven't seen whether or not they said they might have said one way or another. Um, that would be interesting. I don't know. It would be a, it would be an amazing like, post finale like task is renewed for season two news drop. But I think Mark, Mark Ruffalo's involvement tells us this is a one season show, or at least that Tom Brandis is a one season character. But imagine doing season two with like, what is

Martha, would love and respect to Martha Plinton. Is Martha Plinton, like, anchoring the show and or is it John Ham's right there he's more than willing to come into all streaming franchises for the second season

just he'll carve out 10 weeks and he's right in just moving around with a Pennsylvania accent He's played enough cops Anything else before we go I am professionally obligated to comment on

Robbie makes a joke when they're having their nice car ride together he and Tom that actually the duffel bag is full of basketballs and actually they're headed to a pickup basketball

game together Scouting report on Tom Brandes as a pickup basketball player really moves the ball. Okay. Can only score between four and six feet on weird little flip shots, horribly out of shape. I've played with that guy a million times. Robbie scatting report. Definitely gets somebody hurt.

Oh, 100% gets somebody hurt. Glue guy, but undercuts somebody on a rebound. Everyone's mad at him. He's apologizing. He's a nice guy so you don't stay mad at him. Yeah, we've played with him. He gets to come back, but everyone is still kind of quietly pissed at him. The Robbie scouting report,

he is the guy who takes the worst possible shot in the worst possible moment because he has decided it is Robbie Pendergrass time. So I've also played with that guy, unfortunately, but such as life. Yeah. And his brother was way better than him, but sometimes he could, he check it up. But his brother was awesome. Oh, Billy was great. Yeah.

Billy was just great at everything, except apparently pleasing his wife. Or not, oh, no, that was Jason. I'm fixing it out. How dare you? That was such a great joke. Yeah. Billy is unimpeachable. He had everything.

Billy was good at pleasing his way. Yeah, he sure was. Damn, I almost landed that one. Any other things we have to have before we go? Other than episode six, first 10 minutes is going to be one of the TV moments of the year. I'm really excited for this. Yeah. Yeah.

I look forward to getting eight more exclamation points from Bill on whatever happens in those first six minutes. Are we together for the last episode? I hope so. Joe, are you coming through? Yeah. You'll be in town. Let's do it. Are we going to be able to get it?

had a screener of the last episode? Don't we have it? I think we may. Of the seventh? I think we have it. Oh, I haven't. Look, I'm afraid in the way they do the screeners, I don't even go past the episode I'm watching because they actually have a lot of a lot of description of the next episode.

They don't, I don't like the description, but what I really like about the screeners on the HBO site is that they don't have thumbnails. Yes. You know what he means? So you're not like, well, I know so and so survives until this episode or something like that. So I like that, you know. The thumbnail for the.

finale is just Aaliyah like really smelling something strongly. Bob, I hope this happens for you. I really do. This is your best one. Chekhov's sense of smell and also Chekhov's Perry's claw marks around his neck. Like look, they're going to come back. I don't know what to tell you. Yeah.

Yeah, because he did. He lied about whatever. Jason's going to figure out at some point during the sixth episode that Perry killed his wife. And it might just be as simple as she just pops out of the water dead. Like what lies beneath style. Who knows? Did he not do something with that? body.

It's just in the water. He probably tied a rock to it, right? I also don't understand. Like, he kills Aaron. And his explanation to Jason for why his face is all messed up is I slipped in the shower. My guy, your middle management for the dark hearts. Like, you can just say I had to take care of some things. Like, it's cool.

You don't have to make up the shower story. Just an own goal by him. You think Perry's going to start wearing like a lot of turtlenecks in this unseasonably warm early fall? He's got like his dark. dark card. It's got the logo right in the turtleneck. All right. Thanks to Joanne and Rob. Thanks to Donnie. Thanks to Justin Sales. Thanks to Leonard Skinner and the Alman brothers. Hopefully, they'll combine for the for the end credits. Good luck to all the people we want to survive. I really hope DJ Grasinova doesn't shoot Lizzie because that would be depressing. We'll be back for

episode six and then we'll do the season finale in person hopefully. Great to see both of you. Likewise. Thanks, Bill. The right window treatments change everything. Your sleep, your privacy, the way every room looks and feels. At blinds.com, we've spent 30 years making it surprisingly simple to get exactly what your home needs. We've covered over 25 million windows and have 50,000 five-star reviews to prove we deliver. Whether you DIY it or want a pro to handle everything from measure to install, we have you covered. Real design professionals, free samples, zero pressure.

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