The Prestige TV Podcast - ‘The Bear’ Season 2, Episodes 3-4 Recap

Episode Date: June 24, 2023

Charles Holmes and Van Lathan share their thoughts on the third and fourth episodes of ‘The Bear’ Season 2. They discuss Sydney and Carmy’s complicated relationship and growing discontent for one another, why the emotional intimacy in “Honeydew” makes it a standout episode, and Will Poulter’s guest appearance. Along the way, the guys talk about the relationship between art and commerce and how greatness can be suffocating. Hosts: Charles Holmes and Van Lathan Producer: Kai Grady Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hi, I'm Erica Ramirez, founder of Ili and hosts of What About Your Friends? A brand new show on The Ringer Podcast Network dedicated to the many lives of friendship and how it's portrayed in pop culture. Every Wednesday on the Ringer dish feed, I'll be talking with my best friend, Stephen Othello, and your favorites from within the ringer and beyond about friendships on TV and movies, pop culture, and our real lives. So join me every Wednesday on the Ringer dish feed where we try to answer the question TLCS back in the day. What about your friends? Welcome to the prestige TV podcast where we love Taylor Swift too, but we just need a break. I'm Charles Holmes. He's Van Lathen.

Together we're known as the Midnight Boys. And we're back to give you our instant reactions on FX's The Bear. Today we're covering episodes three and four of the second season. Van. This show is operating on a different level of this season. Nah, I did what it was supposed to do. I'm not going to lie. Fourth episode, I was like, all right.

they did it. They did. Because remember what we talked about, when we did the first two episodes, we said they were good, but that the show needed to hit another gear to match what the first season was. Shame on me for even saying that

because episodes three and four were some of the best stuff that I've seen from the show period. I'm not going to lie, bro. To your point, I just wasn't expecting it. Like, shame on me as well. I wasn't expecting it to come as fast because I think these two episodes are almost a case study in,

we talked about it a little bit the last time we were here, about how that penultimate episode in the first season really solidified what a lot of people think of the show. I think tonally, narratively, that chaos, that frenetic feeling, that anxiety. And for them to come back with these two episodes that are a little bit more low-key, in tone, much more about setting an emotional tenor and making you feel for these two characters,

Sydney and Marcus, I was like, oh, they learned how to play a different instrument and they played just as well as the other one. Are we hyping this up too much? Because after I watched episode four, I was like, I need to record this now with Ben. I watch it twice. I'm late. I watched it twice. I think the Marcus episode is one of the best episodes of the show. Listen, you guys, for a show to be able to take a character and give you a 360 degree look at the character, past, present, potential future in one episode as delicately and intimately as that episode did, it's just really amazing, perfectly paced. every single thing in that episode is a character.

The setting is a character. The past is a character. The present is a character. The food is a character. He's in dialogue dramatically with all of it. Every single part of it. It's like it was amazing. Every single time he made a dish for Will Poulter's character,

amazing acting by Will Polter as well. I was on the edge of my seat, rooting for him, wanting him to succeed. Put a pin in that thought. Come back to it. It's also the fact that who Marcus was was so well set up in the last season

with how obsessive he is over this stuff. You know how bad he wants it. And then to have a conversation about what it means to be a perfectionist, about what it means to be better and not perfect and not beat you over the head with it. I thought the entire show, it's one of the best episodes of the bear,

like top three for me, easy, easy. And Carmis's nowhere in it, basically. I couldn't agree more. So for today's episode, we're covering Sunday, directed by Joanna Callow, written by Karen Joseph Adcock. And then the fourth episode is Honeydew

directed by Remy Youseth, and written by Stacey Osai Khafore. Everything you said, man, so stupid. I think maybe let's break down the third episode first because I think episode four is going to kind of be the meat and potatoes of this entire pod because I just want to talk to you about it forever. So you predicted this last time we were here.

Sydney and Karmie's grown discontent with each other. It was something that was there. it was simmering. And episode three was where I was like, okay, even if it's not this season, and it still might be, part of this show is going to be interrogating the two of them.

And what their relationship means to each other, what they mean to each other as colleagues, as friends, as mentor, as mentee. In that third episode, what were you seeing from Sydney and Carvey? It's an interesting juggling act that has to be done, right? this restaurant in a way is Karmie's birthright.

So the DNA of it is inside of him. He feels like he knows exactly what it should be. And not only is the restaurant his birthright, but the changing of it is this monumental risk that he's taking, not just professionally, but with everyone that's worked there for X amount of years, it's very personal to him. But in the same way, it's personal to Sydney because this is her big chance.

And in order to bring, in order to get her buy-in, should I say, Karmie had to make her believe that she has equal stake in it. And so she believes that. She believes that what they're building now is different than the beef. and it's just as much her as it is him. And I'm not saying that consciously Karmie doesn't think that, but subconsciously there's just no way that he can right now. I mean, the name of the restaurant is his family's name.

It is like, it is there in the title. This is his birthright, to your point. And he's also the guy with the name. Like, people know who Karmie is. He has people he can call in favors to. He is a mini celebrity in this world. I think what's so genius about this season is that the first season, so much of it is about the cooking and is about the restaurant.

And in a meta way, this season is about, this is what it's like creating anything. Like, they could be creating a magazine, an album, a movie, anything. All of the questions that they're asking all of the conflict is just two creative. being like, who owns what? Who gets the say? Who is the final say? Are we on equal footing? Are we not on equal footing?

And it's interesting to even see Sydney almost being blinded to some of Karmie's charm and her belief in him. Because when she talks, when she's talking to all of these chefs, all these chefs are like, you don't got profit sharing? Wait, like, how is, what is the actual contracts? You're not getting paid for this? I don't know if Carmi is going out of his way

not to ponder these things, but it's interesting that Sydney has not, because she's already had one failed business. What do you think it is about her where she has these blinders on when it comes to these big existential questions about her career and how much work she's putting into something that is not going to have her name on it?

I think she's a true believer in an artist. And, you, man, there are people who we talk about, who are able to do art and commerce on the same level, Jay-Z, Kevin Hart, whomever, people who are able to be really successful at business and also be really successful as artists as well. But most people can't do that. I remember going back when I was at my old shop,

they wanted me to be a manager. They managed people and stuff like that. I told them I never want to be responsible for somebody else on the job, ever. I want to be responsible for the bottom line execution of the artistic vision. I don't want to make anyone schedule. I don't need some 23-year-old kid coming up to me and telling me they got to go to Vegas next week and can I approve their Friday because I don't want to have to tell that person to come to work, ever. I know what I'm saying?

I don't want to. If you tell me you want to go to Vegas, I'm like, shit, let me tell you what to go. I don't want to, that's not my thing, right? And so with her, I think that what she's thinking about is mission accomplishment. She's inspired by Karmie. So she wants to be as good as Karmie. She wants the food to be as good as possible. All they're doing is cooking and tasting stuff.

I think in this episode, she got a dose of reality when she, number one, looked at the fact that a lot of restaurants are closing. That's a business thing. I'm sure a lot of those places had great food. what it takes to run the place and just the sheer amount of food that she tasted to me was a metaphor for just how many different ways

people in Chicago are serving their customers. You know what I mean? Just how there's so much out there and she was overwhelmed. And you saw at the end of the episode, you know, she was overwhelmed by everything. She was overwhelmed by what was going on

back at the bear. She was overwhelmed by her seemingly inability to nail the recipe that she was cooking. She's overwhelmed by a lot of stuff, and she needs comfort, and she didn't get any comfort from Karmie. When she came back, what she would have wanted to see was him pondering the move to knock the wall down

and then asking her what she thought. That would have given her comfort that she's on the footing she thinks she's on. But when she saw him already having done it, when he asked for forgiveness instead of permission, That made her feel on the outside of things. And that was like the worst ingredient, if you will, to whatever is going on in her mind. I mean, do you think, because Succession, that especially that last season, but the entire series, was about that, does the poison drip through?

Do you think Carmi, the way he was raised, the place he comes from, the way that he talks to a Ritchie or everybody around him? does he have that capacity to be a good leader? Because he's a great cook. Nobody's doubting his talent. But if over this now season and half, will you learn anything about Karmie, there's something about who he is and how he was raised and how he looks at the world

that is not set up to be a good leader or a good manager. I don't think he's ever even tried to be a good leader or a good manager. I think he's tried to be a good chef. Yeah. And so it's a difference between being a great basketball player and being a great leader. Some teams have fantastic basketball players and also have other guys that are the leaders of the team. The leader of the Golden State Warriors is Draymond Green.

He is obviously not the best basketball player on the Golden State Warriors. That's not to say that Stephen Clay aren't leaders because, of course, they are. But like I said, a lot of people don't have all those ingredients to the same amount. Jemond has more leadership than he has basketball. You know what I mean? But he's a guy that's able to give people engaged and manage personalities. And, you know, if you don't do what he likes, he'll punch you in your goddamn face.

Now, as far as Karmie is concerned, he's been a chef in other places, and this is his joint right here. This is his thing right here. And so I think part of this show, even in last season, was watching him try to manage personalities, right? But there's a difference between managing those personalities in a place where you're totally comfortable,

which is the kitchen, and managing those personalities when you're trying to build things and get HVAC stuff and knock down walls and figure out what the business relationship between you and your number two is. He's going to have to learn that, and he's also going to have to contend with whatever PTSD she has from her prior experience and now from being triggered by everybody that she talked to when she was out there.

So these little microaggressions that you're seeing, little tiny things, seeing people that don't have the ability to trust, people that are type A personalities, all of this stuff. It's coming together. You know what I mean? And the question is, like, because this show is not just about cooking, it is cooking. It's adding different ingredients and trying to see if at the end of them, like, we're going to have something that's beautiful and nourishing it. Everybody likes to eat and drink and watch. But right now, there's some glitches in the kitchen, man. Small ones, but they're there.

I mean, to your point, I think if you're using that basketball analogy, Kami is a KD. or a LeBron, someone who has been talented for so long that they kind of lose sight that the rest of the world isn't as talented, that it does not come as easy to everyone else. If you even look at

what Siddy's been doing this entire season, who's the one who's like, maybe we should send Tina and Ibra to culinary school. Maybe we should send Marcus to Copenhagen. Maybe we should, she is the person being like, I need to empower these people.

They have talent, but it's like they need, they need the nourishing. It's something that Carmi is so happy to give, but he's not thinking of it. And I think you're seeing with Carmi, he's been so talented for so long, he's had this conception of his dream, the bear, something that he was going to build

with his brother for so long. He can't communicate it. It's just something that he knows. He's just like, it needs to be this way. And if you're someone like Sidney, she's like, I need you to actually tell me in words, what we're doing. I can't just trust that it's going to get done.

Yeah, look, so we talked about stay on basketball because we're going to talk about Scottie Pippin at the next episode. Greatness can be suffocating. It can be suffocating to people, you know? Kwame Brown had undoubtedly a good NBA career. And people call him, they say what they want to say about him, but he made a lot of money and he played for a while. So he had a good NBA career.

But a lot of people think that Michael Jordan was too hard on him. at the beginning of his career, Michael Jordan drafted him and maybe having a young player with a guy like Michael Jordan that wasn't as affirming or as nurturing as he needed to be that hurt somebody.

Sometimes people are so good at stuff that they can't see how to run things. They know how to say, I'm the best, I'm here with you, get with me, I'll take you to the promise lane. This is the way we should do it. Carmi's got to be a little bit of a G. now. I think in this particular episode, what you saw was her, her, her palate growing. Remember,

he says, our palettes are shit right now. Yeah. Our palettes are shit. We need to go taste food. Then he doesn't come. He actually doesn't end up expanding his palate. He actually, his palate kind of stays the same because he doesn't, something that comes up. But her palate does grow. It does grow because she goes out there, not just from tasting all the food, but from having all the experiences, she comes back with different taste buds for how things should be going in her life and her professional career. So it was just, it's interesting that like, if he's not going to grow in this way, we see little things with Carmis' character where he's growing. He's about to have a Gulf win. And I guarantee you that changes him, right?

It's already, it's already changing him. Because would Carmie in the first season have ever picked a woman over food? No. No. It's already like that's probably, Cindy's like, dog, what's happening to you? You change it. Yeah, you change it. So it's just going to be a race to see whether or not their palates, whether or not they can be on the same accord.

And I'm interested to see how the show does it. Because if the show, which doesn't really do melodrama as much as it does, real life in the weeds and the guts of it, human dysfunction. I want to see how whatever this thing between Sid and Carmi is actually plays out. There was one scene where they had this big scene last season where things came to a head. But still, though, I don't think that the show operates in big, teary eye. This is how things are going. I want to see how things disintegrate between them.

I'm interested to see what happens. I just don't want Karmie to become a prestige, bro. And what I mean by that is like, you become a Walter White or a Don Draper or a Tony Soprano, where the underlying question is, can this person change? And I don't know if I want to see Karmie and Sidney trapped in a loop of them hurting each other indefinitely.

I think that would be too hard to watch. I'll say this. I don't think, I don't, I don't, I don't think he's present enough to be toxic. He's too aloof. I'm serious. Like, he's too aloof. Like, those toxic guys, they normally have, like, a lot of intention in what they do.

And I think what she is going to be upset with him about is that he doesn't do things intentionally enough. Yeah. And so I don't know if he has enough intention to be toxic. He's just kind of like, oh, I'm a great chef. This is how we do it. and he's, he, it flows from the soul a little bit too much. A lot of those other guys are conniving and all broken up and stuff. Oh, man.

I agree with that. But before we transition to Honeydew, episode four, it's time for Kai's Corner. Oh, wow. All right. Kai's Corner is coming, coming in early. Kai, how are you doing it? I'm good. How are you all doing beautifully?

Kai is our very, very talented producer. So then, to your point, Claire, she's mucking up. She's mucking up some stuff this episode, right? Carmi gives her a number. Turns out to be a wrong number. We know that Kai is the lady killer here. Whoa. Kai.

Kai. Kai, have you ever given a woman the wrong number? Be truthful. This is a safe space. I have not. That's never happened. I don't... You're lying.

Listen, this crown of Riz that I've been given by you to is very, very wrong. You know, it's... My girlfriend right now is the first girl I've ever dated. So it's like, I don't, I don't think I have it like that. You know, I was never given my number. I'm too busy, like, playing video games. You know, I'm at home. I don't know, good food, so I can't take them anywhere.

You know what I mean? So it's like, I've never done that. No, never had that experience. We gave him the platform and he's wasting it. You know, it's so funny. It's so funny that Kai thinks we're idiots. You know, it's like, if we were on here right now and Kai was like, yeah, you know, I do my hope.

I would believe that it's not true. but because Kai is on here right now pushing down and playing down his Riz I know that it's there This is crazy You're oozing Riz right now Oosing Riz is like you got a cut on your body And Riz is your blood

It's coming out Let's tell you right now Kai's the kind of guy to go to a different city And give the ladies a different name That's how much Riz he has He like when Kai When Kai is in Cleveland he's in Cleveland.

Who is he in? Who's Kyle? What's Cleveland Kai's name? Kenny. Kenny. You look like, first of all, Kai, let's be honest. Come on. You look like a Kenny talk.

You want to know my first name? I'm about to blow y'all's mind. What's your first name? Matthew. Maddie. Maddie. Maddie. Maddie.

Listen, I got to sit the record straight, though, because I do not have game like that. really don't. Like, my girlfriend will tell you when we, when we first started talking for the first two months, she was just like, does this boy even like me? Like, it was like that. Damn. It's tough. But it is what it is.

You know, I'm chilling now, so I don't have to worry about it. You don't have to worry about it. Kai, look, first of all, I don't believe you, but that's okay. Cool. That's, that's okay. I don't believe you. I think you're the risk king. He's the risk king.

I got to watch those videos. Baby gron. Baby gron. Baby Gronk, rizzed up Lizzie. What's just so stupid? What kind of stupid world do we live in, bro? This is a stupid world. All right, Kai.

Kai's a good kid. Kyle's a good kid. Kyle's a good kid. We love you, God. Thank you so much. Snoring, gasping during sleep, feeling fatigue, ask your doctor about Zepbound, terse appetite.

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products or any GLP1 receptor agonist medicines. It is not known if Zetbound is safe and effective for use in children. Don't share needles or pins or reuse needles. Don't take if allergic to it, or if you or someone in your family had medullary thyroid cancer, or if you've had multiple endocrine neoplasia syndrome type 2. Tell your doctor if you get a lump or swelling in your neck. Stop zepbound and call your doctor if you have severe stomach pain or a serious allergic reaction. Severe side effects may include inflamed pancreas or gallbladder problems. Tell your doctor if you experience vision changes before scheduled procedures with anesthesia. If you're nursing, pregnant, plan to be, or taking birth control pills.

Taking Zepound with a sulfonel urea or insulin may cause low blood sugar. Side effects include nausea, diarrhea, and vomiting, which can cause dehydration and worsened kidney problems. Talk to your doctor. Call 1-800-545-9 or visit Zepbound.lily.com. Now we have to get to the reason we're here. Honeydew. When that episode turned off, I was just like, all right, am I an easy mark? Like, am I just like, am I dumb for like enjoying this episode as much?

as I did. Because I had like a visceral experience of being like, bro, oh, they landed, they landed the plane. I was emotional. It was, Marcus is a very easy character to root for. He is. It's really unfair. It's very unfair what they do with, they know what they're doing with them. By giving us insight into his life and what he's overcome, the way that his backstory was played out, they didn't flashback us to death. We had exposition through character interaction, which is all, always the best way to go to see him at a new place on his own.

It was like a sublime episode of Atlanta in a way. It was surreal. I didn't know what kind of character Will Poulter's character would be. I didn't know if he would be typical asshole chef guy that we've seen in this show before or if he would be nurturing chef guy and it just turned out he was, I want to. to be a really great chef guy that delivered unbelievably poignant life lessons. You know, it was about grief and guilt, shame, and triumph, and expedition, all of that stuff. It was a fish out of water tail with someone who sometimes seemed like they were more comfortable

in Copenhagen than they were in Chicago. So I just really enjoyed it. It's one of the best episodes of TV I've seen in a while. I have to be honest with you. Yeah, I think Rami Youssef, the creator of the star of Rami, absolutely killed the direction of this episode. It was, it's such a tightrope act because we have such a familiarity with what we think the bear is. The bear is based in Chicago. It happens at the beef. It's all of these characters. And this one is really a jump forward in terms of a risk because it doesn't have a bunch of characters that we know. It all rests on Marcus, Lionel Boyce, who is an amazing actor. It's not like he's been acting for 15, 20 years.

He's still relatively new in his career. So to trust that he can carry the emotional weight of this, to your point, the sadness of the episode isn't them slapping us in the face that his mom is about to die and he comes from Chicago and he's this and he's that, it very, very. very subtly through the cinematography, through little key points in the dialogue, even just his face in the way he acts, you realize how far he's come. It was, I think what was universal about this episode is that if you are someone who, for whatever reason, cannot travel that much, and especially if you're like a young black person,

the first time I traveled outside of the country was for work. You know what I'm saying? I almost did have that sense of awe being like, the world. is so much bigger than I thought it was. I never could afford to be to be out here, but something about you changes. And it was wild seeing, to your point, Marcus almost bloom in Copenhagen in a way that he couldn't in Chicago. Yep. And in his blooming, it was like all of the stages of it, because like a flower blooming is a very violent thing, you know? It's beautiful, but it's like violent, right?

It's full of conflict. And there's no promise that it will live. It might die. Right, you know, a moth coming out of a cocoon, you know, turning into a butterfly, whatever. It's a very violent thing. It's busting through and out there, the flowers reaching towards the sun. All of this change and stuff is happening so that it can brace this life that it wants.

That's exactly what happened to him. The way you put it in a flower blooming is the point. perfect way. He's going through uncertainty at the job that he's at the restaurant that he's at. He's uncertainty with leaving home. All of these things are, they're beautiful, but they're painful. And then at the end of the episode, the fact that he sees this person who's in this crisis and he helps them. He gets a momentary hug and thank you so much, a head pat. Don't pet black men on their head. Like a head pat.

And then the guy just kind of goes away. That's kind of his life as a chef. You go through this entire thing and then you send the food away. Maybe you get a little bit of gratification from somebody going, hey, that was really good. But like once it's out there, it's out there. What you've done, you've put all of this into the process. And you hope that someone enjoys it. You hope that that guy is okay.

But he doesn't listen to you after. You don't have any saying it after. He's gone now. You did your part. Your part was the meticulous process of getting them out front under there. He says a very quick thank you and then it's gone. And you have to be okay with that. And you have to be okay with it, not always being perfect.

And you have to be okay with just doing the best that you can do. Nothing is certain. And that's what this entire episode was about to me. There was just no certainty in it. And so when he says, you know, trying to be, trying to just keep up, trying to just keep up made him better than he thought that he could be. It's a good lesson. And it wasn't, it didn't hit me over the head with it.

He just kind of gave it to you, man. I mean, I even think that final, that beautiful and emotional shot of him helping out that biker says so much about mortality and what he's dealing with with his mom. because it's going to hurt. It already hurts trying to help this man. And he's going to do everything in his power that he can and it's painful. And then he's just going to be gone.

And life will move on. And he'll still be a chef. And it's like, to your point, it's not hitting you over the head with all this exposition about what life means and how hard it is. It's just very much like, hey, people come in and out of your life

and you do your best to take care of them and imprint kindness on them. and then everything after that is out of your hands. And to your point, just like food, just like death, just like, it just, it tells you so much about life. And I think the other thing that's interesting about this episode, Will Poulter's character, Luca, is that did you also pick up that I felt like the show was playing with our expectations of what we know as a chef?

Because Will Poulter's character was almost like a weird antithesis to Carmi. He looks like Carmi. he has the tattoos and when he even is telling the the story about that chef that was better than him that he wanted to follow and emulate and made him realize that he will never be the best

I was like he's talking about Carmi he's talking about Carmi is that was that guy to him I thought is that actually Carmi that he's discussing because I thought it was I assumed it was I assumed that it was Carmi too but they never gave me the they never gave me the

they never confirmed that it was him but I assumed that he was talking about Carmi when he was doing that. I got that sense as well. Is that you feel like he was him as well? I definitely feel like it's Carmi. And the reason I feel like it is is because the show, the show knows what it's doing. You could have cast any actor.

And like Will Poulter is like one of the best actor, young actors doing it right now. Uh-huh. But to me, he has the same energy as, as Carmi does. He looks like him. And this was almost a, what I think the show was saying in that moment was this is who Karmie could be

if he let go. This is who Karmie could have been if he realized sooner that he will never be the best. Like this is the way that Luca nurtures people, the way his kitchen is calm and collected and he's literally walking

Marcus through every single thing that he needs to do to be a great job. But still maintains a high, standard though. Yes, still high standard, but we, like, I don't know about you. When I first saw Luca, I was scared that he was going to be an asshole of Marcus. I thought we were going to get a... Yeah, of course.

I thought it was going to be the same thing else as Joe McCale situation. Yeah, and the fact that it wasn't, that's why I think they're teasing that that relationship is the relationship with Carmi's. Like, that's why I actually think Luca is treating Marcus with so much love and so much patience.

Because he knows, he's just like, oh, I'm passing down what Carmi gave to me. So I thought that that was like, all of that was just insanely beautiful. We skipped a part that I want to get back to, though, which Will Poulter's character says. He says, quote, I think at a certain age, it's less about skill and it's more about being open to the world, to yourself, to other people. Most of the incredibly incredible things that I've eaten haven't been because the skill level is exceptionally high. There's loads of mad, fancy techniques. It's because it's been really inspired. And I thought that that was just,

like one of the most beautiful sentiments in TV in the show. And really what this season seems to be shaping up about. Because what are Sydney and Carmie fighting over? Should we be a one-star Michelin restaurant? Should we not worry about that? Is it about technique? Is it about heart? And hearing somebody like Luca be like, no,

good cooking isn't always about being the most skilled chef in the room. It's about being open. And to what you said earlier, that's what Sydney's doing. Karmie doesn't do that. He decides like, hey, I need to reconnect with this with this long lost friend. And that to me is such an interesting thing to try to get across

in a TV show about art. What is art to use? Is something that needs to be super high skilled? Or is it something that's a little bit more esoteric? That's a very astute point. I think it comes down to motivation. Their motivations are different. You know, Karmie is cooking for his soul.

he's cooking his trauma away in this situation. He shouldn't even be at this restaurant. He should be at the French laundry or at bizarre meats in one of these places with, he should be in one of those places. He should be in another spot, a spot where his talent demands him to be there. He's cooking here and doing this for a catharsis. Like it's helping him to keep his brother alive. It's helping him to keep his family situation alive.

And as noble as that is and as real as that is, that's a very selfish thing. It's like, and it's not wrong that it's selfish. You know, self-care is selfish. You know what I mean? Like therapy is something that you do for everybody else because you're an easier person to live with, but it's ultimately something that you have to do for yourself. Yeah.

So the journey here with him is whether or not he's going to have the wherewithal to change what is this really cathartic thing for himself into a shared vision with everyone else. And that is about making a better working environment, about the way your employees feel empowered, something that everybody can share about your relationship with Sid. You know what I mean?

With people like that. So everything that you're saying is true, but like for calm, it's almost been self-preservation to be a little withdrawn, you know. And we'll see how that's going to work for them now that everybody is spreading their wings a little bit more.

all of these characters are growing. And when their palettes, if you will, are expanding. And when they come back to the bear, the question is, which version of Karmie are they going to get someone that empowers the new them, that gives a new, and look, we should say he never hasn't been someone who is good to work with. He's a good guy to work with. He's a teacher. But at the same time, there's a singular.

sort of motive sometimes to what he's doing. And it's a furtherance of something that was very familiar to him. And this restaurant that they're trying to build right now is not going to be as familiar to him because it's going to be made up of a lot of people who have grown. I think the connection that this episode makes to everything you're saying about Karmie is that what does Marcus do when he gets to Copenhagen?

At every single stage, he's taking photos. of the desserts, of the hard work of how he's progressing, and he's sharing it with the people at home. He's not closing himself off in everything that he's learned. He's not trying to cook his demons away. He's trying to say, like, hey, I'm trying to grow as a person, and I'm trying to share this with the people I love. It's made very clear in the show.

Yeah. Carmi goes, leaves his family. He is leaving for very traumatic reasons. When he comes back, he's coming back for very, very traumatic reasons. It's not that he's coming back to share the food that he's learned and the experiences that he's made. It's almost he's trying to cook to say, I'm important. My brother, like, I'm cooking to prove to my brother that he should have spent more time with

me, that he should have believed in me more, that he should have thought about however, all of his choices were going to affect his family in a way that Marcus seems a little bit more mature, which is weird because he's younger. But then again, it's revealed, Marcus had a different life before this. He was a football player. He had a passion. He had a dream that didn't work out. So in many ways, he's almost more willing to accept what Luke is teaching him in a way that I don't know if Carmi is quite literally there yet.

Because all he knows is cooking. This was his first and only passion. And Mark, and just hearing the stories of both guys and how they fell into it, you know what I mean? And the fact that it was something that they realized that they had a knack for. And then they were like, well, let's go get it. Like you said, that's a completely different structure than how Karmie or even Sidney came into it. You know what I mean? And just hearing those backstories was super interesting.

Because, you know, I wonder if I could be one of the world's greatest chefs. You know, I wonder if, I wonder if I'm just one arrest away from being one of the world's greatest chefs, man. It's very inspiring. This might be like, you know, toxic. or whatever, but I'm always like, I'll turn to my girlfriend once and I'm like, yo, could I quit my job and everything and just try like, if I tried to be a chef right now,

like, how long would it take me to be good? And each time I wake up, like, you would be shit. Keep fucking talking on the podcast. You're an idiot. But I always do think, like, damn, I might be one, a couple lessons. I can't do it, bro. I'm not going to be a good chef, I'm not going to be a good chef, bro. I'm not going to be honest with you, bro. It's like, the chef, chef is, chef is hard, Doc.

Like, chef is. Oh, no, no, no. The first time the motherfucker yells at me, I'm like, all right, bro. Yeah, I can't. You know. And also,

people don't understand chefs be burning their arms up. I wanted to take some cooking classes, and I got talked out of it quick. Some friends back in the day, I was like, I'm going to take some cooking classes and learn how to really cook well.

And then my friends were like, you don't want to cook. You don't want to learn how to cook for real. I was like, man, we'd be burning our arms up. We got to make stuff fast. Because I want to just know, like, when I have the pot

or the skillet or whatever, I don't know how to swish it around. You see how they switch it around? Yeah, I think it's even... See, you're doing it. You're thinking about like the technical shit. I'm more so thinking like, anytime I've like either known cooks in a kitchen

or I've worked out of place and known cooks, I'm sorry to all the chefs out there. I am. Them motherfuckers are wild, bro. Like, it's like a different breed. They're like rappers, bro. They're getting a lot of trouble. they drink.

They're like, you know, they be all tatted up. Like, here's the thing. Everybody, like, come on, bro.

Like, sometimes like, damn, y'all really been through it. So yeah, I don't know if I could do it. Kai, real quick.

We're tapping you in real quick for another Kai's corner. What's up? Kai, do you think you could be a good chef? Are you built for it? Absolutely not. I mean,

I, that's another thing. I don't really know how to cook like that. You know, I can make a mean turkey sandwich and bread, but that's, that's about it.

That's all. You know, I know your turkey sandwiches aren't cooked. Some ego waffles, you know what I mean? Put some syrup and butter on there. That's the extent of my cooking skills. So, no, I would be pretty terrible at it. I'm surprised you put syrup on your egg or waffles.

You look like the type of motherfucker that take the egg or waffle and just bite it frozen. You look like the type. Frozen is crazy. You look like the type, hey, I don't like food. I don't even need to heat it up to get the nutrients. Guy's like, I don't like to taste of toast. I don't toast. I don't toast anything.

You look like just bite it. Oh, do you eat unfrosted Pop-Tarts? No, no, no, no. Pop-Tarts, I'm actually my bag when it comes to Pop-Tarts. I got the brown sugar cinnamon. You know, I got the cookies and cream, got the s'mores. Okay. I don't like the free Pop-Tarts, though.

I can't. Let me tell you guys something right now. Y'all should enjoy that shit. And you should enjoy all of that. And I'll tell you why. There is a point that your body gets to at a certain age where you try to eat a pop-tart and your body just goes, no. I'm ill-prepared for that moment.

Oh, it happens. I'm third. I hit 30. I can't, like, I just. It's too, like, you're my, I'm like, ooh, that's sweet. And my mom will look at me, she'll be like, you are not, that's really interesting. You used to sit down. I used to sit down a house, a whole 12 dozen, does it, does it?

Crisp cream donuts. Yeah, we talked about the Kris cream. Drink, drink some milk. Drink some milk. Go out and play basketball. Now, your body starts fangling. You're like, all right, I did too much, bro. What does?

It's so funny. Like, you'll sit there and literally have regret. You'll be, oh, my God, I went too far. I mean, y'all mentioned this during the last one spot, and I started getting scared. I started sweating. I was like, oh, God. No, you good.

You good. How old are you, Kai? 24. Oh, you got 10 more years in the field. 10? Yeah, he got 10 more years in the field. Maybe he's genetic. If your genetics are good, minor, shit.

So last thing we have to talk about, though. We have to bring it up. I think the funniest thing that's happened this entire season. Dog, the sugar talking to Karmie, and then the wall falling game. That's hilarious. Was one of the funniest things I've seen a decade. It's hilarious.

When she doesn't want to tell Richie, the shit falls. And he's like, I knew it. I was like, I fucking knew it. Great, great, great scene. The show really has, I felt privileged to watch the bear. Hell yeah. After I watched these last two episodes, he's really doing this thing. Now, before we go, have you seen the next two episodes?

I haven't. I'm staying, I'm staying, I'm keeping it. Because Screenergate always makes me, I'm watching, if you guys don't know, Midnight Boys history, look up Screenergate. Screenergate was bad. So I actually watch them as they come out now. Let me tell you, bro. They got, they got one.

They got one in the next two batches. Like, okay. They spit it. Like, they spitting. I'm ready for it. I'm ready for it. All right, guys. So, well, we'll be back next week.

We'll give you episode 5, 6 next. We're going to cover all of the bear. Thank you so much to Kai Grady, the one and only on the boards. Thank you to my host, Van Lathan, and y'all. We'll see you next week.