The Prestige TV Podcast - ‘The Bear’ Season 3, Episodes 3-4: Moving Too Fast

Episode Date: June 30, 2024

Charles and Van follow a set of non-negotiables to recap the third and fourth episodes of ‘The Bear’ Season 3. They start by discussing Lionel Boyce’s growth as an actor, whether Carmy is just too talented to be a good leader, and why Carmy and Richie’s relationship has to be fraught for the show to work (3:56). Later, they unpack what’s behind the more muted critical reception to this season and whether they’re feeling any trepidation heading into the rest of the episodes (30:06). Hosts: Charles Holmes and Van Lathan Producer: Kai Grady Additional Production Support: Justin Sayles Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Greetings, it's Mal. Call your banners because it's time to head back to Westrose for House of the Dragon, season two. The ringers dragon riders will soar alongside you each week with a heron-hall-sized slate of conversations. The dragon has three heads, and on Sunday nights immediately after Hot D concludes, Chris Ryan, Joanna Robinson and I will be with you for Talk the Thrones. Then on Mondays, two more shows away. Van Lath and Charles Holmes, Steve Allman, and Jomea Denneron, aka the Midnight Boys, Pugh!

Pee! We'll head to the tourney grounds to share their reactions. And of course, Chris Ryan and Andy Greenwald will sip the Arbor's finest vintage on the watch. Then on Tuesdays, Joanna and I will head to the bowels of a pleasure den for our House of our deep dives. Then on Thursdays, Joe, Neil Miller, and Dave Gonzalez will gather the Ravens for trial by content. In this season, full episodes of Talk to Thrones, House of Ar, and the Midnight Boys will also be available on video on Spotify and the new Ringervverse YouTube channel. Podcast episodes available on Spotify or wherever you get your podcast. This episode is brought to by Whole Foods Market.

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donut about the gastronomical proclivities with some dusty French tire marketing. That's right. The Pirelli boys are back to break down season three of the bear. Chefs, Van, Kai, how are we fucking feeling? Woo! Fire up some chickens. Kai, what is your tire brand of choice? What car do you drive?

I drive a Mazda 3. Free ads. Shout out to the Mazzi. Oh, what tires? We got good gears on that bitch? Probably not. Whatever came with it is what I got. I was in Kai's car one time.

Really? Oh, that's facts. Kai picked me up from the airport. Is this true? Yeah. Y'all hung out? Yeah. I went to Kai's apartment.

Damn. Is Kai living lavish? I think Kai's apartment is great. Thank you. I'm being honest, I think Kai's got, you don't mind me saying he's got art made by a very special person in his life

all over his apartment. It's very great. He's got his, I think Kai's, I think Kai's apartment is great. It's much superior to my apartment when I was 13. 30.

Kai do got forever baby face. Guy looked like, yeah. I really, Kai got like a cool little apartment, man. Kai, the only light skin that's winning in 2024 is Guy. Jason Tatum, bro. That is true.

Yeah, Jason Tainer, man. It's like that's a... All right, guys. Van, I have to admit something. What? The Ringer is working the Midnight Boys, bro. We are here. Like, we, we up, all right?

We, midnight boys, twice a week. We cover in House of the Dragon, the boys, the Acolyte. Go to Ringer, YouTube.com slash Ringerverse. We got fucking video now. Here's the thing. Videos are going up. They love the Midnight Boys and some videos. They love the men. It's hijinks is what it is.

Now, For y'all that may have forgotten, we're covering the bear on prestige TV. We're doing two episodes at a time. We'll be back next week covering the latter half of the season. Most important thing of these programming reminders, though, if you love what the Midnight Boys do and you're like, damn, I want more.

I'm in L.A. Well, on July 17th, we will be at the El Ray Theater. It's going to be a live show. We might do a midnight court. We might do a draft. We might have guests. It might be. Midnight Boys, Acella.

Midnight Boys, Achella. I might actually rap. If you want to hear me, get on the mic, come to the L. Ray, because I rocks mics. Dog, we should do the end of eight mile. We should. But guys, go to ringer.com slash events. If you're interested in seeing the whole Ringervorverse crew. But back to the show, we are covering episode three and four today, Doors and Vivenile.

Violet. Doors, directed by Duccio Fabri, story by Christopher Storer and Will Godara, teleplay by Christopher Storer. Dors follows the first month of the bear where the team breaks under the stress of trying to make Carmi's daily menu changes are reality. Then Violet is directed by Christopher Storer, written by Storer and his sister Courtney. Overview. Sidney moves out and gets a new apartment, but she is stopped by the CDC at a restaurant, Adam Shapiro, who starts plotting to snake Sidney away from the bear as he complements one of her dishes.

Richie has an awkward talk with his ex-wife's new fiancé, Frank, and the team realizes too late that the Chicago Tribune snuck in and is giving them a review. All right. Before we get into what we're talking about, I have to give a shout out. Lionel Boyce has grown so much as an actor. He's always been fantastic,

but what they're asking him to do in this season after his mother passed, funeral. What are we feeling about why? Like, his growth has been astronomical to me. I thought the eulogy scene was great because he struck the perfect note. Yeah. That's like a scene where an actor feels like they have to go super overboard.

But the way he described his mother was so direct and so intimate and so forceful. You know what I mean? I thought that was like one of the best scenes that I've seen of the bear. I love that. I thought it's fantastic growth from him as an actor and a perfectly written scene as well. So indoors, episode three, basically we get this month or we get weeks inside this restaurant.

It is not going well. Everything is fucking up. And we are starting to see just how dysfunctional. Because the bear has always been dysfunctional back when it was the beef. But what I wanted to ask you about is like, does, is the show more tense now that we are in this world of fine dining? because we see Richie has his vision of how he wants the outside to be, how he wants the customers to be treated. Karmie has the way he wants his kitchen to be run, the food.

We have Sydney's vision. And then we have his uncle and his sister. We're like, yo, this place has to make money. We need more tables. We need, like, we're losing money. Like, you can't keep wasting money on this fucking special butter. Special butter and new fucking instruments and all of that stuff. What to you was more stress?

when the beef was just this broken down, run-down place that Karmie was trying to fix, or now that we have the bear where it's like everything, all the food is trying to be 10 out of 10 perfect each time? It's always more stressful to me doing something that's new to you or that you're not comfortable doing. We're watching some of the growing pains

with various people inside the bear and how they are reacting to those growing pains. And it's sometimes excruciating to watch them navigate through what's going on with them. I think the beef was one thing just because it was trying to, like, mend a wound, stitch up a wound, right? Yeah. But this is different, though.

This is, like, doing open-heart surgery. Like, it's dangerous, and it seems, every plate seems life or death. And I just could not imagine working in an environment like that. And I got to be honest with you. it's not super duper fun to watch. It's harder to watch. I'll be real. At one point, I was like,

that 5-7 little nigger not talking to me like that. Like, I'll punch him, I punch him square thing. And also, what I think is so interesting is in the first season, Karmie is walking into the beef. That is basically this husk of his dead brother. So he could blame the dysfunction on Chicago and Richie and this place that he had left and he is trying to fix something

that was never truly his. And now with the bear, you are realizing, you're like, oh, Karmie is just as dysfunctional. He can't blame this classic staple of the neighborhood anymore. He can't look down on it.

There's no more excuses. Everything is how he wanted it. This is his vision of the world. And now I'm like, oh, Karmie, you're a bad leader. I don't know if Karmie... Like, you were bringing up Michael Jordan and everybody was like...

I was like, is Karmie almost too talented to lead a team? They say that about like Kevin Durant, someone who's so... Just everything comes to them and they are so naturally good at something. Sometimes those people

are the worst people to instruct someone because they've never had to be normal. They cannot connect with people that are not on that level with them. I tend to think that the criticisms about Kevin Durant as a leader are a little overblown. But I do understand this. The best person at something sometimes is just that.

Talent, sometimes is just talent. Yeah. I was at TMZ. And I was really good at being a TMZ tour guy, right? Like taking people around the town, so on all the stuff, TMZ tour guy. They came to me and they said, you're so good at this, man. You should be in management. I was like, no.

I don't want to be in management. No. No. I don't want, but it comes with this. I don't care if it comes with Tenache. I don't want to be in management. I don't want to do it. I don't want to do that job.

No. I have some kid coming up to me and going, Hey, I really want to go to Vegas this weekend. It's EDC. carnival time, can I get Friday off? And then me having to tell some 24-year-old kid, I'm an uncle, meaning you come to me for fun times and then you go back. I don't tell you you can't have a raise.

I don't tell you you can't have time off. I don't want any of that. I don't want to do that. And, like, if people look at me and then they want to be better at what they do because they think I'm good at it, that's what I'm doing. I'm not ever going to come to you and tell you, hey, you need to do better. I don't give a fuck how you do. I'm a hooper, right?

Like, Kevin Durant is a hooper. I'm a hooper. I get out there and I do my thing. And then you raise your level because we're together and it's inspiring. But I'm not going to, like, you know, you'll walk up to you at you need to lose some way. And we need you on a rebound.

No, it's not me. I don't want to do that. And so with, in this situation with Karmie, he can't just cook. He has to craft the culture. of the restaurant, and he's having trouble doing that. Well, even the non-negotiables that he keeps going back to, I'm like, it's kind of that shit where I was like, that's what I knew, like, I could not be in, it reminded me of business

school. It reminded me of like very corporate environments, very military-esque, where it's just like, we're talking about building the culture. What's the vision? What's our values? And I'm like, bro, cut my check. Like, I don't care. I don't, like, I don't care about building a culture.

That's not, there are people. there are people who are good managers or leaders where you can look at them and you're like, you have something in you where you can lead men. You can inspire people. And then there's me, I'm like, I just want to do what I want to do. I want to make my shit.

I want to be creative. And I want to leave. I inspire people. I just don't care enough about you to want you to be better. I want people that I care about to be better. Like, I want people to reach their potential. But I'm like, I don't, like, the only person I'm,

truly competitive with is myself. So, like, I look at me and I go, what could I be doing better? And in a situation like, Carmi, he, or other people, you can't do that. You have to be concerned with everybody else's job. Yeah. Even, like, like, as a producer,

like, on different projects, my job is very distinct. Like, I'm the, the, the, the, the, come in, roll everybody up, inspire everybody, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom. You're having a problem? Take it to Nick. Yo. Okay?

It's like you need something. Take it to Nick. You need to, like, you need to be given a shot. You need to be put on. You need to be poured into. Come talk to me. I'll give you a pep talk. I'll do all of that.

If it's something that's really, Nick will deal with. Dog, these were like my coaches when I was wrestling. There was one coach. You didn't go to him for the pep talks. He was the motherfucker like, this is what you need to do. And then there was the other like feeling just warm. Like, bro, you got this. Believe in yourself.

That coach was everybody's favorite. The motherfucker was just like, bro. Dog, you off the team. If you fucking lose, I'm like, God. So I'll tell you something. In sports, it is slightly different for me. People that have played basketball with me, it'll be like, it's going to be like, Van, lying.

They'll be like, Van, going to tell you, hey, man, we need you to block. Let me tell you how you block out. It's different. But I think in this situation, watching this episode and just seeing how much, how hard it is for them to implement Karmie's plan. Yeah. You wonder if you thought about how hard it would be for them. Well, also, because I think we also forget that it's been three or four years of us watching the season.

But for them, it has not been that long. It's been, what, probably like a year and a half where you are. taking people that had a couple months of culinary training before that were just like work-a-day blue-collar folks. And you see, to your point, you're essentially trying to turn them into the Marines of the culinary world. And they're not, it's not that they're not built for it, but there is a level of them like, did they sign up for this? Did they know what they were signing up for? Because that's why I think, honestly, Sydney is having such a problem with Karmie because we knew that

Sydney left that world. Sydney fell in love with it, but she couldn't that culture, that type of they wanted to build something different. And my question for you is, is Karmie realizing, because this may be me just being washed and old and negative, where I'm like,

to get to those places creatively, sometimes it does take that insane work ethic, grind it out mentality of if you want to be great, this is what we're doing, and there's going to be some,

like, I do think that that is what has been the culture shift, where people are like, well, we don't have to do it that way. We can be more gentle. We can be more cuddly. And I'm just like, yeah, in a vacuum, yeah. Which is the fans.

Sometimes I'm like, even making the midnight boys. Sometimes I'm like, behind the scenes, it's like, stuff. It feels like that. And then when you give it to the audience, they're just like, oh, this is a regular episode. Well, I mean, it's, yeah, the thing with Sid and Karmie is, And that's why it was great that she stood up to him. Yeah.

What did she say? I'm not your therapist? I'm not your fucking babysitter. I can't babysit you. It was good that she stood up to him because his tunnel vision was so pointed that he was missing things outside his periphery. Yeah. People were struggling. People needed a little bit of extra care.

People were having problems with you. Tina. Tina. You see the small mistakes people were making. Richie not being able to relay what the menu is because he's not sure. because the menu is changing so much. Tina not being able to get down exactly how you were supposed to cook these different.

It's like there are so many things that are happening and Karmie is not seeing any of it and it's all falling back on Sidd. Somebody is going to deal with it. Somebody is going to deal with inefficiency in scaling something out. And if you're the leader, that's really what you're supposed to be doing.

He's really leading in kind of a selfish way by expecting everybody to execute things that he might have not properly prepared them for. And when you see kind of what, you know, just some of the funny stuff, fat going out there and making the broth for the people and then bringing it back. All right, when you said, is the bear funny anymore?

That shit is the funniest shit. Like that. He pours it. He's like, thank you. He goes, this is from the mind. He pours it. Like, the brother, then he walks away. And then Richie,

Richie, who is just even is just in this show is just like fucking acting his ass off. It's but what the arc of Richie over these two episodes of like this rough and tumble just

Chicago guy trying his best to change, not just his suits, but the way he moves around in the world. And just his like Zen bullshit, the free the freaking quote. Like, he's really trying to be this different person.

He's, but like, it's just, it's making him devolve. Him, when him and Karmie are in the room, those two have such a chemistry. When they're arguing, I'm like, I feel like I start my chest. I'm like, I can't be around, y'all. With the show work if they started getting along. No. That's the, I'll put you this way. Not to go back, the first episode, we were talking about the Sopranos.

If Tony and Maltesanti, like, if they good, is it the show? Or does Christopher have to fuck up? Yeah, Christopher has to fuck up. That is the, and that's always, that's the greatness of any type of these shows where it's like for Carmi and Richie to coexist would be a fundamentally boring show. Right. You don't want that. You want to see, like, because to this, I actually think in this season and,

two episodes illustrate it really, really well, I think Karmie is trying to drag Richie down with him. I think, like, Karmie does not know how to empower Richie and to get him to this point where it's just, like, Richie is trying. He is learning.

He is trying to have some semblance of ownership in the bear, and Karmie, like, what, we're getting flashbacks. He's like, there's a reason it wasn't left to you. There's a brother, dynamic where it's like, if you have a brother, there is like that dynamic. It's like, I don't want to yield.

I don't want to give you what you want most. It seems like all Karmie wanted was Richie's buy-in. Yeah. And now what Karmie hates is Richie's buying. But he wants his filthy, actually. But, I mean, yeah, at the same time, though, Richie's buy-in means that, you know, well, we should also talk about the fact that, you know, the whole ownership stake part of the situation is something we haven't really.

discussed is that Richie is going to feel on the outside of that. Also, which is wild because when Richie's daughter is talking about Karmie, she says Uncle Karmie. Like, that's his brother. And it's so funny that it's like, Sydney is going to get, if she signs this, an ownership stake. And it's like she doesn't even know if she wants it.

And then you have, on the other side, Richie, who, to your point, is buying in and Karmie still does not know how to accept he does not know how to give Richie what he wants which is yo this is ours I'm trying to help you

I'm like fuck off bro because it's probably still a little bit of the back and forth there's like actually a power struggle there like you said before Richie cares so much about the front of the house as just desperate as Karmie is

for every dish to be perfect it compromises Richie sometimes. You know what I mean? Like the food comes out and Carmi's like, no, refire it. And they're like, no, it's good. Refire it. Carmi doesn't want good.

He wants perfect. So just ratches up the pressure on everyone and it makes Richie look like he's bad at his job. And I think the one thing about him is he can't really exist in a space where he feels overlooked or taken for granted. Yeah. And I mean also, but it's so interesting.

his character and what Evan is doing is so phenomenal because Richie has gotten so good at taking care of people in the front of the house. There's that scene where they need to get those people out of the seat. And he's just like, you guys want to see the back of the kitchen and Carvey is melting down. And I was just like, oh, Ebyn is like, it is one of those things where he's just like,

he's actually becoming too good at his job. He's having thoughts of his own. They're like, when FAC is like wheeling out the pinata, like, he's actually doing things where I'm just like, oh, he's helping Carme out. Yeah. Everything is so dysfunctional. The food is not coming out when it's supposed to. And Richie is thinking about how can I paper this over? And Carms like, you don't need to.

That's not important. Do what I say. And I'm just like, bro. Right. Also, I have to ask, this is Claire. Gotta be real. She was a divisive character, season two. Yeah.

I don't know if you are engendering her to the audience that the first motherfucking thing she says is one of my favorite days is Mondays. I'm like, you crazy-ass motherfucker. Yeah. Whose favorite days are Monday? Like that's some sociopathic shit. Have you ever had a job where you had more fun at the job than you did in your social life? Yes, but it was when I was like a teenager.

What was the job? It was like a bear situation. I was on the Asbury Park Boardwalk. I was made, we made lemonade and fries, but it was what, like, the boardwalk was gentrifying. Lemonade and fries. That sounds great. Here's the thing, too. It was just like, I had a boss.

I would not say her name, but she was, like, macid. You know what I'm saying? So she was just like, hey, yo, if you see, like, a fine girl just walks up, don't even charge her. And I'm like, I'm not hitting on the girls giving them free lemonade and fries, but, dang, you know, you see a nice bikini. You just like, hey, don't even worry about them. Lemonade and fries, huh? I like that combo. I'm so fat.

But here's a thing, dude. I'm looking this stuff right now. That was the type of job where it was like, it was hectic, but you like, bro, I love just being in the middle of the shit. Just like vibing. Did you ever have those jobs as like a teenager? Or you just like, I hate these motherfuckers I work with, but I love them so much. We get into hijinks. I don't want to.

I worked this place called Capricorn programs. Me and my man, Jeff, my man, Paul. It was my first job when I came to L.A. I'm so thankful to everyone. Tim and Dave and all the people that worked over there. But it was kind of like a bullshit job. Those are the best ones. You know, like we were making clip shows and stuff.

You get to work at like 10 o'clock. Like, you're rolling to work 10 o'clock. You do your thing. You're for 3.30, 4 o'clock, you're gone. You know what I mean? And then that was also, like, we would have an adventure on lunch every single day. Oh, those times are you. You going out to lunch.

Yeah. You spend it two, three hours. You be like, oh, dog, let's get this. They come back and Dave's like, huh, you guys are going for a while. And we're like, yeah. I'm listening to the new Lupe fiasco. You know what I'm saying? It's crazy.

Yeah, but here's the thing. Carmi does say something where I was like, oh, I've had that before. Where Carmie, to him, he's like, my least favorite day of the week is Sunday. And he's like, because the restaurant's closed. Yeah. And I've had those jobs. where it's like when I was at Rolling Stone, when you have,

when you are surrounded by something you love and by like people like you're working with, when you're not working, you're talking about work. You want to go in, you're hungry, you're grinding, your life starts revolving around chasing this drag, like you're just never going to catch.

And I was like, oh, that is Karmie. Carmi does not know what to do with his free time. Right, which tells you that, once again, it's the story of the show that he has no equilibrium. him in his life. He doesn't have any type of balance. He's searching for fulfillment and not contentment. We've talked about this before. He's searching for fulfillment and not contentment. And the show is essentially going to be about what he has to sacrifice to get either or to have both.

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won't stand a chance. Find Ollie Sleep Solutions for the whole family at Ollie.com. That's OLLLY.com. Do you think that Sid would be more because there's that scene in the second episode where she's talking to Karmie?

Carmis apologizes, she's like, yo, did you call? And she's just like, Claire. She's like, I'm going to fuck about Claire. And she's talking about Richie. Yeah. In this episode, we see Do you think, obviously, Sid don't give a fuck about Claire, she do not like her? Do you think Sid would be more supportive of the relationship if Claire was a black woman?

Like, do you think it's because Claire White? She's like, I'm not giving her no points, no respect. I don't know, man. You don't think so? I think she would. I think she would. So you think if she was, if Claire was Imann? You know what I mean?

Yeah, all right, so here's the thing. Have you ever, like, I've had like sisters who are, like, like they date in a brother and I'm like, I do go to the extra mile, be like, yo, you should give him another chance. You know how it. I'll do it all the time. You know how hard it is for a black man out here.

Yeah. Like just. I got to stop that. Because I'll tell you why. If it's not no serious shit, my- I had to bite the eye to stop doing that. If it's not no serious shit,

like where I feel like her safety or her personhood is in danger, when one of my home girls tells me she's into it with some guy the first thing I always do is go, I don't know, maybe, I don't know, maybe he's going through something. Maybe he's going to, dog. That's the most toxic shit. I'll be like, you know it is hard.

Yeah. It's like, oh, so what excuse did he give you? He told me that he had to take his little cousin to Magic Mountain and that's why he turned his phone off. And I'd be like, well, I mean, Magic Mountain is a nice place. You probably want to be present. But do you think in the back of your head, you'd be like, damn, that is a good lie. It's not even that. It's just that like, it's just, that's what we got to get out of this toxic loyalty.

Because it's like, you know, sometimes I just can't do it sometimes. I just can't be seen as hate knows. Because home girl, I can't be seen as hating on somebody. If your home girl lets his slip and she brings them around again and he gives you that look, like, hey, bro, why was you trying to stop my motion? Eventually, when the conversation goes further, I'm going to go, all right, nah, you need, he need to do a little bit. I just can't see.

I can't feel like I'm hate. So here's the thing. If I, if I bring a nice black woman around to your home. Well, that'll never happen, but go ahead. Whoa!

Bid! God damn! You don't think Kalika would be like more supportive? Like, dude, she would probably be like, hey, Charles, you got to. Probably got to do right by this.

I think, I think Sid's being a hater. I'm not, I'm not going to hold you fucking up. What do you think it means that Sid has moved out and gone out on her own now. Episode 4. So I love her dad.

Robert Townsend. Legend. Townsend. Yo, I do need him to chill, though. Because that is some shit. My uncle would do that shit when they, like, I'd never forget. I went to Temple University.

They saw my first apartment and that shit was bombed out. It was bad. And they was just looking like, this is where you living? Yeah. You sure? All right, son. And you're moving fast. And I was just like, my motherfucker, can you be supportive?

Like, you just, and it's, but I do get the sense over these couple episodes where is also Sydney a bit unmoored? Is she almost like, how do I put this? She's so in love with the vision of Karmie that she first met through his food before she even met him, that first bite of food. It's like, it's just like a drug. She wants to believe that Karmie's different. She wants to believe that the bear is different. She wants to believe that she can be in. And she can't be independent and can move out and do all this stuff.

And I did agree with her dad at that point where it's like you're trying to have it all too fast. Yeah. And there is a level where it's like because Sydney needs to be the glue that's holding the bear together, I'm like, you go on attend to Marcus in his grief, Tina struggling with what she's doing. You're going to deal with Carmia and Richie's fucking explosive ass and you fucking moving out. I'm like, sis, I don't know. if you need to be juggling all this. Am I not giving her enough credit? No, I think you're right.

Of all of the characters in the show, I'm most interested in her. And what happens with her? Oh, I already can telegraph it. I have not watched the other episodes. I just watched up to episode four. Dog, that chef, that was some slimy, dirty mac and shit. Because he knew which one of the dishes was hers.

Yeah. Like, that was some shit where it was like, if I was carmed me, like, you get in the pause. Yeah, a little bit. Because I was just like, that's a no-go. I think she might leave the bear. I think the last season might be, how does Karmie either try to win Sydney back,

or is that the bottom for him? We should say something real quick, that the reaction to this season of the bear isn't as uniformly positive as all the other ones. I do feel like episode four might be my least favorite episode of the show ever. Ever? Ever? Ever? So I honestly think what is happening is what happens with all of these shows.

I think it happens with, it happened with Succession, it happened with Abbott Elementary, all of these recent shows where, because everything that's going on with the streamers, it makes it hard to ever really know what is the Zykeye show. The bear has become that. And when you get to that third season, you're no longer the underdog. You're no longer the person that, like, we weren't expecting anything from Bear season one. It came out of nowhere.

And season two, we were bold up. We were just like, oh, it made the leap. It made the jump. Now season three, all these motherfuckers got Emmys. You know what I'm saying? They're like, they're in the Iron Claw, inside out, fantastic four. They're the stars of Hollywood. This is the record when you start kind of hating.

You start being like, damn, they went pop. So you think it's more of the audience than it is, the actual, the season itself. Well, because I think I won't know. I think I will return to this after episode 10. I think what's happening now is that the bear has so many fans

and is so many things to so many people where it's like in the first season, it was more comedic. And then you have that one or episode that you're like, oh, you start getting that sense. This show is more ambitious. than I had originally thought. It's approaching that prestige level.

And the second season does that, fishes, forks, all of that to the nth degree. So you have people who came into the show loving the comedy and the sitcom of it. You had people who are loving the prestige element, the Emmys, that element of it. And then you have people who love the chaotic nature of the show

and who love the more simple and elegant. How do you make all those people happen? The bear is a show that is about what it's about. And if you're bought in, it feels like you're all the way bought in. Yeah. If you're bought in, then you're bought into every aspect of the show. You're bought into the beautiful food that's in the show. You're bought into the way the characters talk, the language that they speak in.

You're bought into all of that stuff. It's easier to get someone hooked on that than it is to keep somebody coming back. And that is just like a restaurant. it's easier to go to a new restaurant and taste some food that you've never had before and go, oh my God, this is great, I've got to be here and do all that and it's great.

I haven't had these flavors before. But to get somebody, to make somebody irregular at something, you have to keep what makes the restaurant great and expand it in other ways to keep them guessing. So this is almost similar to me to another show we covered on prestige, Atlanta,

where it's like... Same exact thing. Where it almost seems like because it feels like there's only one more season, where it's like they film these back to back or getting a season four, where I'm like, oh, season threes are so difficult, especially when you're only doing four seasons.

And I don't know if they're only doing four seasons, but because this is the pen ultimate, it's going to lead to something explosive. But when you're at the end, to your point, it's like, it's really easy to hook someone. It's easier to start a story than it is to end a story. Of course. And I'm getting that sense,

at least from season three, just through the first four, episodes, I'm like, almost by design, this has to be the most uncomfortable a season. Yeah, I mean, what you just said is actually true. You know, people thought that Dave was white Atlanta. Really, the bear is white Atlanta. Yeah. The bear is white Atlanta. It's a story about, Carmi is not necessarily earned, but it kind of is. He's unlikable like Earned. Yeah, he's, he's like

Earn was kind of a washout that was looking for some sort of consistency in his life. Karmie is not necessarily a washout, but he is somebody that is trying to change his life and deal with the baggage of his past family in a very cutthroat industry with a lot of characters around him, some of which he's related to.

So the shows have got the same DNA, and I think the third season of Atlanta, the groin pains that that season went through, you and I both liked it, but most people did not like it. I think it's, I think it, uh, there's a refrain here from the bear to where the show is, it still has all of the creative juice and the creative, um, might that it has. But for some people, it might not be hitting as much because they might want to see more, a little bit more change than what they're saying.

I mean also, but there is also the whole thing of the like, now the bear has almost become too big of a show. Yeah. Where it's like people want certain storylines to happen. They want some resolution to. Are Sydney and Karmie a relationship or not? We are not going to like... Yeah, but they just fucking invented that out of thin air, though. No, here's the thing.

I'm not going to litigate that. But there is a level of the audience where those, because they're big stars now, because, like, Hio is one of the biggest, biggest stars in Hollywood. Now she's doing her thing. You know what I'm saying? Like, there is a level of, like,

our connection to these people is not just their characters anymore. It was easier to just see the characters of those characters. Now you see, like, Carmen, like, I saw that motherfucker on the big screen in the Iron Claw, bro. That's a different, like, my mind almost has to, like, Ebbing Moss-Backarak was in fucking Andor and is about to be the thing. There is a level of, like, oh, I have an attachment to the actors and these characters and my own investment in what I want to see from the show. And that's where, like, Atlanta became the same thing. Those motherfuckers became the biggest stars in Hollywood. They went Marvel.

They did, you know what I mean? And it's like, now I'm like, they didn't sell out, but there is that level. I'm like, no, no, but there is that level from the audience where it's like, oh, you're not my little, the little thing that I can love anymore. That's just the water cooler moment. It's like, no, this is the zeitgeisty fucking shit. My question for you, though, is where we end episode four, the Chicago Tribune.

What do we think the review is? Do we, because it's like the chef basically, what the chef says to, says to Sid was like, food was fantastic. Yeah. Carmi and fucking Richie. Not so much. And I'm like, is that going to, can they come back from that? Look, it depends.

If, had this happened before, it wouldn't have been that big a deal. But remember, he wants his Michelin Star. So him wanting his Michelin Star means that every single opinion about his restaurant, every single impression of it has to be pristine. And everything is butchers up against that. You know what I mean? Everything is butchrist up against the fact that he wants this to be the newest latest fine dining establishment in Chicago.

So that just ratches up the pressure for what the Chicago Tribune, which is the leading paper in Chicago would think about it. You know what I mean? Before we wrap up, my last question for you before we go to Kai's Corner, because you haven't watched ahead because I haven't watched ahead. I haven't watched ahead if only 7 to 4. do you think, are you worried about the season? Because I'm not.

I'm not. I did get a similar sense to you where I'm like, the bear is always excellent. It is always made. Honestly, ironically, it is like the food, where it's just like the difference between a perfect episode and a good episode sometimes is five seconds. You know, are you worried about where the season is going or are you giving it grace being like, I'm just here for the ride? No, I'm not worried about the season, but I think the thing with the bear that's challenging sometimes

is we are conditioned to watch TV and wonder what will happen next on the show. And they don't do that for you very much. No. They just, like, you eat what you're served. Like, they don't really give you... They do it sometimes,

but they don't give you very much of okay, what's going to happen now? Okay, like, what's going to happen now? Like, and therefore this happens. And therefore this happens. And therefore this happens. I don't really do that. Like, it's, it's, it's,

so, and that, that makes every single show kind of like a short film that's existing in the same universe with characters that you already know. And the longer you do that, the harder it is. I mean, the more successful version of this show, is a forks, is a like, oh, there's some resolution. We're going to either make you feel good or feel something or it's going to... There's a sitcom structure to this where it's like, oh, I'm checking in with my friends every week,

hanging out with them and it's going to be a tight little bow, even if it's sad or whatever. And to your point, almost episode to episode you are starting over. You are making a new relationship. It is like going to a restaurant that is quite literally changing the menu every single time you go. Yeah. Where it's like, we said it, I think, at the last episode, where it's like, the bear is almost not comfort food in the way was to me in season one,

where I was just like, I know what this show is. It's almost like in season three, I'm like, every single episode, I'm like, all right, this is a new flavor. This is a new dish. Do I like it? Do I not? It's difficult as a reviewer to be like, where do I stand?

Yeah, I agree. I agree. Kai, I'm locked in. What's up? All right, so, Karmie, in these first four episodes, is doing something that, seems a little bit taboo for Sydney, where he is changing up the recipes. For people who did not listen to our previous season of The Bear,

everybody knows, Kai, you are one of the best food critics in the nation. Yeah, big deal. You taste everything. You are not a picky eater at all. Kai, of all of the dishes that Carmi cooked, which one would you try? Can you hit me with some reminders on what the dishes were? So, Van, let's go down these. There was the one, what was the meat dish with the peas?

Like a little piece of steak? Like a little piece of well-cooked steak. He had all the pasta. What was the broth situation? The broth was Carmi's, Carmi had made the fucking ingredients for the broth, the base for the broth, and then he poured the hot water on

and the broth was made right in front of you. It looked like it was, I don't know what it was. I don't know what it was. I didn't know, some of it was vegetables. Some of his vegetables? Yeah. Is that carrots? Is that fit?

Yeah, not sure. Did any speak to you? I think the safe choice is the meat with the peas, right? I feel like that's the safe choice. But if I'm feeling a little frisky, I don't know that. The broth sounds kind of fun. You are a broth motherfucker motherfucker because Kai, you don't, you like chicken fingers, you like pop tarts.

When you go to a steak restaurant, what are you getting your steak cooked? I'm getting it well done. Wow. Oh, all right. No, no, no. So, Kai, so this is what we'll do. You got to talk to him. So, Kai, is what we'll do.

The next time you're in L.A., I will take you to the best steak restaurant in city. Say less. We'll all go on me. The only thing is you can't get the steak. Well done. I'm not allowed to. It's just awful.

Not allowed. Kai, that's how you know he's young. Like, that's how you know. I'm like, we got to get you out of the trenches, bro. What is it? If you're going to an actual, like, really, really good, I think medium rare is. Medium rare, medium, medium plus, maybe. I don't do medium.

I'll do a medium. I won't do medium plus. I like medium a little bit closer to the rare side. I'll do medium plus. Also depends on the cut of steak, but I'll do medium plus. It's got to be, you know,

it's got to be pink in the middle. It got to be picking. Well done is insane. That's crazy. Even if you said, well, I would still judge you. Well done.

Have you ever had a good piece of steak, Kai? Like, I'm talking about melt in your mouth, like orgasm type steak. What's the best, what's the best steak restaurant you ever been to?

No, I couldn't even tell you. I don't even know. Oh, we got to. This is agreed. We got to get Kyle. What steak restaurant are we taking Kai to? That's interesting.

So there's State 48 out here that's good now. There's Cut. Cuts a really good one. Of course, the Maestro's is great. There's a lot of different options here in L.A. Gwen's. Like, there's a lot of different places. Because Cut has the, like, the fucking reputation.

We'll go there. I mean, that's the thing is that's why I don't go to nice restaurants. You know, I'm asking for all these substitutes. Like, you see it. And you see how pissed in those shows get. No, we're not asking for no substitute. Kai. Like, act like you been somewhere, bro.

No, fuck. No substitutes. Guys. I would have been that person that got the no mushrooms that they got angry about. The guy was super pissed off. He's eating the mushrooms.

All right, guys. That has been your prestige TV. Thank you to the most important food critic in the nation. Kai on the ones and twos. Thank you to Justin Sales for everything he's doing behind the scenes with Prestige TV.

Thank you to Van Lathan. We will be back all next week for breaking down the bear. Lock in. We will see y'all very, very. 3.