The Prestige TV Podcast - ‘The Bear’ Season 3, Episodes 5-6: Too Many Cooks

Episode Date: July 2, 2024

Charles and Van stumble back into The Beef to recap the fifth and sixth episodes of ‘The Bear’ Season 3. They discuss why Season 3 isn’t as compelling as past seasons, how Carmy has devolved into an increasingly unlikable character, and whether the show is suffering from a cameo problem (3:04). Later, they unpack why “Napkins” is one of the strongest episodes of the series to date (24:03). Hosts: Charles Holmes and Van Lathan Producer: Kai Grady Additional Production Support: Justin Sayles Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Sure, the weather is getting warmer and you're probably planning your next vacation with your family. But what better way to avoid your family on that vacation than listening to three dudes argue about quarterback tears, if you can trust a wide receiver over 30 years old, and if Jim Harbaugh still thinks chickens are nervous birds? Join me, Craig Horlebeck, along with Danny Hyfitts and Danny Kelly every week on the Ringer Fantasy Football Show. The playoffs are here, and you can predict the action all the way to the finals with Fandul Predict. predict the spread, total points, and even the game winner. Sign up and get a $25 bonus. Offered by Fandul prediction markets LLC, a registered futures commission merchant, 18 plus.

Bonus is non-withdrawable and expires seven days after receipt. Trading derivatives involve significant risk and may not be suitable for all investors. Manage your activity with our consumer protection tool. Restrictions apply. See terms at fandual.com slash predict slash bonus dash offer dash terms. This episode is brought to by Whole Foods Market. Spring is here, so celebrate it with fresh. juicy seasonal produce and some very tasty limited time flavors. New Whole Foods,

market peach, apricot, rose, Italian soda. Perfect for a picnic or brunch, as is their trending mango, Yuzu chantilly cake. But if you're on the go, new 365 strawberry pretzels make a great sweet snack. That sounds delicious. Get savings with yellow sale signs storewide and everyday low prices on 365 brand items. Enjoy the fresh flavors. of spring save at Whole Foods Market. Welcome to the prestige TV podcast, where if you fuck with Marcus, we will murder you. I'm Charles Holmes. He's Van Lath, and together we're known as the Mindype Boys.

And we're back to break down season three of the Bear episodes five and six. Van, how are you feeling? I'm feeling. I'm fantastic. Fantastic. Kai. Where the fuck are you, Kai? Get here.

Get on here. What's up, y'all? How are you feeling today? Dude, I'm in Florida. Got some sun. Good. You're in Florida? be careful down there.

What fuck this is wild in Florida? What part of Florida are you in? I'm in Lake Destin. Okay. Pensacola area. It's very beautiful down there. The water's been nice. Wait, have you gotten...

What are those sandwiches that everybody always talks about the public sandwiches? The Florida? Fried chicken, like the chicken strip sandwich. That sounds fine. I never had that.

I mean, the chicken strips down there are now in danger. Mr. Captain Chicken strip himself, chicken tender bandit is in there. The chicken... No, that's Jome. Oh, well, Joe Me, too. Jomey and Kai.

I love some chicken tender. I know you do. All right. Before we get into the bear, we got to remind people, Midnight Boys, if you love what we do, everybody loves what we do.

Although people are very mad at us on Instagram. The Game of Throfts fans are just like, you haven't read the books. There's no black people in the books. How dare you say Renera's racist? Oh, I don't give a shit

about what they say. It was a joke. Okay. Guys, midnight boys, we're twice a week all summer. We are covering House of the Dragon, Acolyte, the Boys. Make sure you like and subscribe on YouTube. YouTube numbers are going fucking crazy.

Also, we're at the El Rite Theater, July 17. Oh, Daddy. Live, all right. If you want to laugh, cry, make fun to the Midnight Boys, House of R, Min Edition, Button Mash. Right. July 17th, El-Rite Theater. Into it. Now that we've gotten through all of that.

Right. We're going to talk about two episodes. The first, children directed and written by Christopher Storer, where the restaurant preps for a photo shoot for a looming Chicago Tribune review. Karmie spins out at the thought of a chef Terry closing ever, and Cicero brings in a man named computer who tries and cut costs at the bear. And the second episode is napkins, directed by I.O. Ida Biri, written by Catherine Chetina. And it's a flashback episode where we get to see the events that lead to Tina joining the beef.

And before we get into both episodes, we kind of touched upon it last time we talked. This has been a very divisive season of the bear. I think critically, just when I'm saying on social media, publications, yeah, this is kind of the test of the show where this is, I think, the first time I've at least seen, people starting to kind of question, is the bear running in place? What is the purpose of this show? Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. So before we get into both episodes, where are you at with this season? Do you think some of the criticism has merit? Do you think people are it overblown?

Where are you at? This season is kind of a gauge of how much you love the show. Yes. I'll say it like this. If you really, really, really love the show, then they're probably giving you enough. You still get beautiful food. You still get the frantic atmosphere.

of the restaurant, you still get enough navel gazing from Karmie, you still get enough of that that the show is probably decent sustenance for you, if you are a bare fanatic, right? If you're just watching it, this isn't

very entertaining. And just to be honest with you, one of the two episodes that we're talking about right now is fantastic. I think one of the best of the entire series. Fantastic. But even in that episode, it's going backwards.

Yes. It's almost dipping into bare lore. Now, I have to be honest with you, the show has always done that. That's a part of what the show does in terms of setting up the characters and rounding them out since we came right into the entire situation. You want to know kind of how everyone got to where they are.

But for some reason, Now in this third season, the looking backwards, the tendency of the show to look backwards, should I say, when we want something fresh and new, it's starting to get a little strained now, a little bit. That episode itself will talk about it, like I said before, is fantastic and, like, devastatingly effective in its storytelling and so well-acted.

But overall, you kind of look at the show now, And you kind of ask yourself at points, what am I watching for? Not why am I watching? But what are we watching for? And look, they fixed the beef. They opened a restaurant. Now they're trying to make a restaurant

into a success while juggling everything else that's going along with their personal lives. But there's something about it that makes this season not quite as compelling. this past seasons. So I agree. I think I was giving, at least in the first four episodes,

I had seen enough where I'm just like, okay, let me see where the rest of this goes. And I do agree with you, where I've found this season very challenging. I've found it very challenging because they're making, I think, a lot of visual choices that are interesting to me, but almost make it a little harder to watch where Christopher Storer directs a lot of episodes this season. And as the show has progressed, he's been directing more and more. And I think you get stuff like the first episode of the season where I'm, like, blown away. But I've started to realize even the tendency of the show now to be very up close when two people are talking.

In a very, I've used the word claustrophobic way, where scenes are usually in one location. It's with each episode, it's almost written more and more like a play where you are sitting with these characters or 15, 20 minutes at a time, just talking, going back and forth, just zoomed in on them. And then you have the anxiety of the cuts where it's like, to your point, they keep flashing back. We keep flashing back, back, back, back. Where I think it is artistically for me

harder to be interested in something when it keeps flashing back instead of when it's forward momentum. And that doesn't mean it can't be done. But I think what I loved about the first two seasons of the bear was the first one is, me trying to push this restaurant at least if it's not even into the future

into something that's less toxic and you're like that's momentum. The second season, they're trying to build a restaurant. Marcus is trying to learn how to be a pastry chef. Ayah was tasting all of this food. There is something about it where it's like, there's all this possibility. And like life, once you build something,

the hardest part is sustaining it. And sustaining something to me isn't as dramatically fulfilling as the new. Every television show is going to go through that, right? I mean, that's the getting a hit television show is so hard, like keeping the hit television shows

even harder, and that's where a lot of times your performers come in and stuff. I think the bear is running into something that a lot of shows run into sometimes is even what you were talking about before with staying on characters for very long and the claustrophobic nature of it. those are kind of things that are in the DNA of the show that they did with great success in earlier seasons.

Remember, there was one episode that was just one complete shot. The tension was amazingly high. It was perfectly acted and choreographed. And it seems like they take that and they try to sprinkle it in and parts in other places, right? They give you a little bit of that because it worked so well.

FACC was such a great piece of, comedy, right? Now they're okay, they love fact. That comes in there. They like meeting his brother and now we got three facts. You know what I mean? Then we get another one. It seems like they're taking they're kind of playing the hits

and they're doing it as almost a sleight of hand to distract us from the fact that the story isn't going anymore. So do you feel that way that the story this season does not have that much progression? Because, or And in season three, do we need that progression? Because I am feeling like right now, almost with this season, it does not know what it wants to be.

I'm like, is this a TV series about opening and maintaining a restaurant? Is this a series about generational trauma and this one chef trying to kind of break the curse of not only the beef, but of addiction in his family? Or is this a third thing? I don't even know what the third thing. Like, I don't know because every episode, it kind of changes. where I'm like, this is going to sound so basic bitch of me. I do want to be at the restaurant.

Like, I do want to see what is happening. And we are over halfway with the season. I'm like, we are never in this bitch. And when we are incremental movements, like this entire children, basically is about them setting up a restaurant for photographs for the Tribune review and then bringing in this guy

who's like, your restaurant is failing. Which is, I'm like, That's not the most interesting. Well, I mean, the reality is that we, for the most part, know our characters. Yeah. For the most part, right? Napkins was so good because it answered some questions about Tina that I didn't even think to ask. Yeah.

Like, I assumed that Tina had been at the beef for 15 years. Exactly. Like I assume she had been there for 2005 But when you look at the episode She's actually only been there for four years, right? Or it's 2018, so it's six years And there was a major shift in her life

That led her there And it really rounded out who Mikey's character was Some of the best work from John Bernthal As Mikey that we've seen Kind of told you a little bit about why everyone felt so connected to him I told you a little bit why people were so loyal to him and why his death was so destructive to them. So that worked, right?

Honestly, the characters themselves need a new challenge. Yeah. Once you get to know the characters that your sitcom or your show are based around, then you got to give them something different. We got to know Tony Soprano, first season of Sopranos. Then we get to know him a little bit more because Richie Appreel comes in.

then we get to know him a little bit more because his cousin gets out of jail and we get to know him a little bit more because his wife leaves him and we get to know him a little bit more because Ralphie we get to know these characters through what they have to overcome

we get to know these characters through what they're up against we get to know these characters through the new things that happen in their lives and the bear isn't really introducing any new things that are happening in these people's lives

and the things that they are introducing aren't very dramatic Yeah. They're mundane in a lot of ways. And so I'm just wondering, it seems a little bit like this is the season. I know they shot two seasons. Well, I don't think I was reading something and I might be wrong. I don't think they even shot the season four yet, or they haven't finished it yet because the scripts weren't ready.

But I do think to your point, at least writing-wise, this might be the first half. Like this doesn't seem like season three and season four. This seems like one season that they might have explained out. This does seem like I love the bear and I, but it does seem like a show that's convinced of how good it is. Really? All right. We're going there.

Yeah. It seems like a show that has lost a little bit of its need to be daring and push things forward. Two seasons of ridiculous critical acclaim made stars and virtual household names out of its three leads. More so Karmie and Sid. I mean, Evan is about to be the thing. He's about to be the thing. So he's out of here. Everyone is, right?

Like, it's really one of those ones that catapults people to the next level. But they're kind of giving you, there's some artistic indulgence in the, show. The first episode was so great to me because it seemed as if it was fighting against that. It seemed as if it was saying, hey, for the first episode of the show, what we're going to do is tell the story in a way you've never seen it told before with very little dialogue, past, present future, or past and present together, and just we're going to go there, we're going to reset you right there. And then they got, when the show came back to the story we're in now, it just kind of seems like it's a painting of the show

and they're just going, look at it. So do you also think that the bear is in this weird nebulous zone where because it comes out every year, like older TV shows, where it's not like it's prestige brethren where, oh, we might have to wait two or three years, in between seasons where they get to work a little bit more on it. They get to curate it a little bit more. The bear is like a traditional sitcom where it's like every year it's coming out,

but it's the ambitions are outsized where to your point, I did start getting this feeling when I was watching some of this, where I was like, not napkins, because we will talk about napkins more in depth, which I think is easily to me. If it's not the first episode, napkins is the best of the season and up there for the best. best of the series, but I do definitely feel like what you said where there's an indulgence to this. There is almost a, they might think that Karmie's interiority is more interesting than it is,

where it's like, I like watching someone who is talented do that. If you are a talented chef, I want to see you cook. I want to see you be talented at that. And there's so much of this season where I feel like Karmie is just standing stuff. And maybe that is because emotionally is at a standstill after Claire. But I'm like, nobody gives a fuck about Claire. Like, nobody cares.

I'm just being honest with you. Either make Claire a thing or don't make Claire a thing. She's not in the season at all, but they keep mentioning her. They show her to. They're either, we haven't gotten enough of Claire

to be invested in Claire enough for that to be a significant part of Carmen Strz. trauma. Yes. Of what Karmie did. It just, it hasn't been that big of a deal. It's not that big of a deal. Like, and also,

Karmie is annoying. Yeah. He's grading. And look, maybe that's a part of it. Maybe that's what they want. I mean, Cicero has to pull him to the side and be like, yo, stop, like, he has a big bro. I'm like, stop being a dickhead.

Yeah. And I'm like, it was at that moment where I was just like, has Karmie jumped the shark in terms of like, like, at least in the first two seasons, I'm like, Carmi's still an asshole, but he's aspirational. I want to see him succeed. And in this, I'm like,

there has not been like any moments in the season where I can connect to this man. It's not like he has to be a nice guy, right? But in the first two episodes, the North Star of who he was was making everybody better. Yes. And so it was almost like a Kobe thing, right?

It's like, if it's a, Kobe thing and you're trying to make everybody better, then that's something that people can get into. You're a little grading, right? You're blunt, you're direct, but you actually, at the end of it, instill confidence in people because you know they can be better and you push them to be better.

And your excellence makes them rise to another degree. Now, you know, there's the whole Michael Jordan. thing every once in a while a teammate gets punched out. But, you know, that was the thing with Karmie. You knew that what you thought he was right. Yeah. I mean, in season two, he does prove like he sees something in Richie before Richie sees it in himself.

Of course. He sees something in Marcus. And that, even when Karmie was at his worst, you were like, to your point, there was still a North Star of being like, oh, well, he's great and he's trying to make everyone around him great. Now his character seems like a narcissist. And I think that they're, and maybe you have to be to kind of be who he is. I think that they've always, they've hinted at the reason why he might be so hung up on things.

Yeah. But it seems like he's undercutting everyone. He's putting people around him in bad situations. He's self-centered. And nobody can get through to him. And all at the same time, we're also supposed to feel this gaping hole in him emotionally. it's just not working.

I mean, I think it makes sense from a character perspective. It is hard to watch and something you already kind of brought it up. I think something that's interesting about this show is in the first couple seasons, you already brought it up.

FAC was comedic relief. And now at this point, they're introducing so many facts where it's like, I think the show might have a cameo problem when John Cena pops up. I'm like, I have nothing against John Cena. I like him as a performer.

But I'm like, why the fuck is John Cena in this? Hey, let me tell you something right now. I'm going to be honest with you. I love the bear. I love the creative team behind the bear. I've loved the show. We've covered the bear here. Glowing rings. Love it. We've done enough work here to let you guys know

that this is the type of shit that we're into. We fuck with the bear. Love it. I was literally offended when John Cena popped up. Yes. I was just like, why? Why? Why? Man, nothing against John Sina. John Sina ruined that whole episode.

He did. There is a chord that you have to strike to be able to perform on this show. Will Poulter hit it. Olivia Coleman hit it. I'd even say Jamie, like, if you could get Jamie Lee Curtis, hit it. Like, I get Jamie Lee Curtis.

I get that. I get Olivia Coleman. John Cena, like. Bob Odenkirk hit it. Bob Odenkirk did. Like Dave, John Mulvaney. Malaney. Like, all of them had no issue.

There is a gear, not as a performer, not as an actor. Nah, fuck that. I don't know why I'm done. There's a gear that you have to hit to be on this show and John Cena don't have it. I'm just being for real. I did think all those scenes were a waste of time. I'm just like, we only have 10 episodes of this shit. And you're introducing John Cena and his whole driving force.

This episode is fucking buffing. floor. You just don't believe he's their brother. You don't believe him in this world. I don't know why they did that.

I really don't know why they did that. If you're going to do that, your guy that you're going to go to on that is going to be Dave Batista. And I know that's going going to hurt the scene

of files out there. Dave Batista, I will say this. Of the wrestling actors, I do think he is probably the most talented. Dave Batista, and I'm not trying to

pit wrestlers against each other. You know, I'm the number one voice in wrestling media. But Dave Batista is the fucking Marlon Brando of wrestling actors. I agree. It's not close. And I don't

know why he's so good. I don't know what he did. It was Blade Runner where I was just like, oh, he has, like, he's not in Blade Runner 2049 that long, but I was like, God, he has something else. But is Blade Runner, is Glass Onion.

Glass, oh, damn. Yeah. It's Dune, too. Like, he's, to me, it's the M. I. Shamelon joint that came out not too long ago. Would you take Batiste over The Rock? That's not close. But here's the deal, though.

The Rock is, these guys are good actors. Like, they're, you know, when you see a bad actor. Like, John Cena and the Rock have, they're oozing with movie star charisma. And in a lot of different things, it works. But his lack of seriousness and the inattention to detail that his performances normally have.

It works for Peacemaker perfectly. Yeah. And it doesn't work here. Do you also think physically where like the facts, Carmi. He don't look like he belonged in this world. Yeah, like all of them look like they some Chicago grumbling motherfuckers who like got it out of the mud. I'm like, that's John Sina.

He's like, dog, his bicep is the size of fucking Carmi's head. What are we doing? He don't look like he's a brother. He don't look like he belong in this world. He looks like he belongs in the world that's more fantastic. more of a fantasy thing. So I'm saying that to say that's the kind of thing

that like Calica was next to me and I let out an audible sigh when he put on a second. Charles Holmesism. Like, what are we doing here? And so that episode, just like nothing happens in that episode. Well, some things happen

where it's like, I actually, speaking of a character that I actually do think works in this world, I did like the computer scene. I did like the computer coming in and even when he's talking to Sugar and he's trying to get rid of Marcus, I'm like, I like this scene

because this is about the characters that we know and love and a new character that's coming in is a disruptive force, but he's not wrong. Yeah. You know, and I'm just like, how do I put this? I don't know right now

if the show has enough to say about the bear as a restaurant I think it has a lot to say about the restaurant industry, a lot to say about addiction and trauma. But I think what children demonstrated to me is this is why it's hard to make shows and TV about the day-to-day life of a restaurant because it's not that interesting.

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Boar's Head committed to craft since 1905. I think actually napkins works because in the beginning of the season, people like, yo, there's going to be a Tina episode directed by Io. And like nothing against Iyo or the character of Tina. I was like, I don't want a whole Tina episode. I'm like, I don't care about Tina that much. And when I sat down, it did the thing that good television does where I was like, I didn't know this is what I wanted.

Yeah. Where I think Iyo put her fucking foot. She's perfect. Like it was, I was just like, oh my gosh. Where even if we're criticizing the amount of flash I think why I love napkins is like napkins revealed something about Tina. It revealed something about, to your point, Mikey and the bear and what the beef meant. And I was just so surprised because it was, napkins was hard to watch the first half of it.

Seeing her get let go by this company. Seeing the love her and her husband have. And it's like that, their relationship, that's a real relationship where it's like you have. the man in the relationship being like, yo, why are you worried? I got everything taken care of. And she's, like, telling him, like, you don't understand I want to work.

This is part of my identity, routine. I really was charmed by that episode. Like, it was, it was one of those things where I was like, I kind of wish some of the other episodes had this heart. Like, had the heart of a Marcus episode or a Ritchie episode where even within the trauma and the claustrophobia, there is a little bit of hope. I think one thing that I did,

they answered a bunch of questions about Tina. And then it answered also a bunch of questions about the beef and the show itself. Because the number one question that you would ask about the beef when the show first started is why would anybody want to work here? Right. It's obvious those people aren't making a shit ton of money. Even why was Tina so mean and resentful in the first season? But she was holding on. And so you go back and once again, the bear when it's,

work and it does amazing things. I remember there was a scene in the first season where sugar was on the phone with somebody and as she was on the phone with them, she was making some chicken. And when you saw the way the chicken

was in the pot, the chicken was in the pot and the reduction around the chicken it was perfectly golden and the chicken was perfectly brown and they froze on it. You saw some peas and you're like, oh my gosh, she can cook. Yeah. So, and then another time where they're all in the kitchen and Mikey is making the beef for the sandwiches or whatever they're doing, you're like, this is a part of these people.

Yeah. Their food, and, you know, Mikey talks about it is it's an extension of who they are as part of their identity. So the restaurant is that. And Karmie is taking that a step further or in a different way. And that's what we're kind of getting to in the show is what made Karmie different from Mikey. why did Mikey's road end the way that it did and why will Carmis Road not, right? And in this one, it was kind of the same thing.

It starts off and what do you see Tina doing, taking care of people. You see her cooking. You see her putting the food in the crock, not making the sandwich. So she has, so when she eventually gets to the beef, because when the episode first started, I didn't know what time period we were in.

Same. I was just like, this, because it's a different, she has a different haircut. I'm just like, is this the past? or the present. Right. You see that all of this stuff is in her. It's almost like,

this is going to sound sort of weird. It's like you never know what you can do into a situation that's built around you. I was looking at Kevin Durant one time. I saw Kevin Durant. I saw him at the club, right? Nice guy.

Was he still practicing? Was he still practicing his jump shot? No, this is years ago. He wasn't practicing his jump shot. Then Kevin Durant had him all. They was all in Kevin Durant. God damn. Los Palmas.

But I looked at him and I was like, what would he do if basketball didn't exist? I'm sure he could do a lot of things. Yeah. But he is born to play basketball. But your talents have to be met by opportunity and circumstance or they don't matter.

It really doesn't matter that you're 6'11 with freakish athleticism. and can run and jump if there's nothing to do that, do with that. Yeah. So when I see some of these people, particularly in this show, I see their innate skills meet an opportunity that has been created by structures around them, by either what Karmie brings or by what the extra added ambition of the restaurant instills into them.

You see that in Marcus. You see that definitely in SIDS. Marcus was somebody that was interested in doing stuff, but when there was more around him, now you get to see how his funny way of seeing the world and how that can be utilized. And with her in that episode, I saw, throughout the episode,

I saw all the things that would make her successful at the beef and then the bear, the tenacity, the seriousness, the ability to cook, the fact that when she does form an actual lasting bond with her. someone that she's fiercely loyal to them. Yeah. Right? There's a part of her that longs to be, to have that routine, but also to be

inspired and pushed, right? And sometimes you just have to talk through that and get to her. I saw all of those things. It was meant for her to find the bear and the whole episode, the whole episode feels like a treat because her hero's journey to get there was so fraud. It was, and the thing that I think you kind of touched upon it that this episode does really, really well is when she finally walks through the beef, it's still as chaotic as we remembered it in season one, but we get a moment of Richie being like, nobody takes the sandwich, he gives it to Tina. There's something, she's like, can I have a coffee? He's like, yo, that's on the house, mama. Like, you see something in Rishi where you're like, oh, he's sweet. He's a sweet man.

you see the bustling nature of the beef and being like even in this chaos this meant something to this community. They were serving very salt of the earth people. When she goes back and she has this talk with Mikey, it's one of the rare moments on the show where it's not Karmie or a character telling you how much Mikey meant to this place

and meant to this community, you get to see Mikey have a connection with, Tina. And that was when if the show is kind of enamored with these very long and drawn out conversations, that one worked for me. Because I'm just

like, this felt earned. This felt like we've been waiting three seasons to get an episode where we're like, oh, this isn't just how Mikey was when it's Carmian sugar cooking in their kitchen. He was like this with everyone. But also the sadness

of that scene is your seeing in John Bernthal shout out to him we're seeing John Bernthal act a man that is almost at the end of his rope. Yeah. Where he's just like he's venting to Tina where he's just like this place is so important to him but

it's destroying him. They never have enough. Everybody's always yelling. Everybody always needs something and he's trying to hold on it. Hold on to it. He's still devastatingly charming. Liza Colon, Zias and John Bernthal, I want to like Emmys. Like the two of them

Tina's actress, Mikey, their chemistry in that scene when she's first crying and she's trying to wipe her tears away, that's one of the realist moments where I'm just like, oh, this takes a seasoned actor,

this takes two people that are at the top of their game. I was so charmed by this episode. And when she gets home, once again, this is what the bear does really, really well. When she gets home and she opens up her purse and she has the beef t-shirt,

It was magical. But what I want to ask you is like something that I'm like, I don't know if this is what the season is hinting at. But is the season hinting at what did this neighborhood lose when the beef disappeared and the bear came? Because it's kind of obvious that the window is really what's moving. The sandwiches. That's what everyone wants.

But now they got to wait outside for it. You know what I'm saying? And it's like people want the sandwiches. The cultural change, yeah. It's this cultural change. And I'm like, to you, and we can maybe talk about it later as we get into more of the season, do you think it was a mistake for Karmie to kind of abandon the beef so quickly? The beef is Karmie.

In the first episode, Karmie sends a picture to Mikey. And Mikey then shows the picture. Was it in that? Was he showing it to T it? Because he does it in this episode, too, where he shows it to Tina. She's like, what is that? He's like, I don't know. Was it in this episode?

I think it was in the first episode. No, no, no. It's done twice. Okay. So it's done in the first episode, and he gets it in this episode and he shows it to Tina. And he's like, so I don't know if it was the same scene or he keeps, Karmie keeps sending him these photos and he's like, I don't know what this is. Right.

That is the difference between Karmie and Mikey. Karmie is looking to take his experiences and he's been pushed in a different way to use them as a foundation to build something that Mikey wouldn't think to build or that the neighborhood wouldn't think to have, right? There's always lost when you do that. Like sometimes I go back to Louisiana, right?

I go to a place. There's one place I've been going to for a long time. It's called Louisiana Langea. Shout out to them. They're on Perkins Road. it's Perkins and Blue Bonnet. It's just a great restaurant. There are a lot of great restaurants in Baton Rouge in New Orleans,

but that one, Louisiana land, yeah, Perkins and Blue Bonnet, that's my favorite. All right, now go there, and I'm going to get the same thing. They had something called a, um, it was, it's a, it's a, it's a, I can't remember the name of it now. It's been a while since I've been there, but it's a basically a soft-shell crap. Okay. Fried on top of, uh, catfish with a sauce around it.

It's fat, making a shit. It's called, no, it's called a poncha train is what it's called. It's fantastic. When I tell you, it's great, it's fantastic. Now, I'll go there and I'll get that and get all kinds of stuff. But then there are other restaurants that are popping up in Baton Rouge now. And they are Cajun fusion. It'll be mixed with, like, Cajun, sushi, or they had a king-wash.

gumbo at one of these places. And, you know, it's, they're taking, some of it's, there's a cage and Tex-Mex place where they're doing all kinds of different stuff. People are taking chances. And so when I'm there, you know, if I bring Kalika with me when I go there, it's like, let's go to Louisiana Land Yap. Let's go to the Chimes. The Chimes is another place I like to go.

I like to go to the chicken shack. I like to go to Tony Seafold. I like to go all the same places. You know, my mom and Kalika and then they'll be like, you know, there's some new places to try as well. And these places are, their foundation is in the food that you've always loved, but they're doing something new and something different. So maybe when you come down there, you eat it the place that you like,

and then also you continue to grow it. So because the city has to grow as a culinary experience. It has to evolve as a culinary experience. Or else you think that people are just going to eat poncha trains like forever. Now, I'm still going to go to Louisiana land, yeah, because I love it. But it has to grow. It has evolved. You have to do that to survive.

The minute you stop growing, you start dying. And so Karmie actually represents the pain of trying to take the restaurant and his vision and what he is, who he is, and elevated to something new so that his family, his legacy, his brother, and all of it so that it has a new life. And that ain't easy because people want comfort. Oftentimes, they don't want to be pushed. They literally want to be served sandwiches until the restaurant goes away. But I do think that what is genius about this show is that when Tina bites into the sandwich for the first time,

she's so wrapped up in her emotion. She doesn't even understand what she's eating. Right. Right. And then after she has the talk with Mikey, she bites in the sandwich again. she understands. Like the taste of this sandwich, the comfort of it, what it means, everything, you can see her eyes lighting up. And what I think is interesting is throughout the season,

the thing that Karmie's chasing is, I want a new menu. I want a new menu. Every single day we're changing. To your point, growing, growing, growing. And the people around him are like, you know, people go to a restaurant because when you have that one dish, you're like, damn, it's a comfort food. You're like, you want to go back. You want to have that memory. And it's interesting to me where it's like, I think why the bear is failing is because it has all the ambition, but it doesn't have the emotion of that beef sandwich of it doesn't have that thing. You mean the restaurant itself? The restaurant itself of like, oh, when I go to this restaurant, I'm not just going because I want to see ambition and have something new every time.

Most people go to a restaurant because to your point, it's like, I want to recapture this moment. I want to recapture a memory. I want to eat something that makes me feel like I'm at home where I'm of this place. And if you are constantly innovating and changing, to your point earlier, that's narcissism a lot of the time. Could be, but it is sometimes what small anecdote, I promise you, I know you guys hate it. We went to Greece.

And we went to Greece. We went to Santorini. We went to a bunch of restaurants. But the two most polar opposite experiences was like, we was walking back to the hotel and there was a place and the fish place. It's a fish restaurant. We went there and we sat down and we had the food in Centaurini was astoundingly good. And we went and we sat down and we had the best fresh fish I've had in terms of that style.

Right? So we ate. It was fantastic. It was amazing. I could have eaten there every day. One of the last nights we were there, we went to one of the best restaurants in the world. Not going to say the name of the restaurant, but it is renowned. I got sick in the middle of it.

I ended up, like, throwing up outside the restaurant, right? That place is a place that the menu had a story on it. They brought out different things. They were doing a whole thing. It was so involved, right? And the people that were around us, that were there, were delighted to experience it. Like, delighted to experience it.

They, this was what they lived for. The question in any type of artistic endeavor, whether it be movie making, cooking or whatever, is who are you doing it for? Yeah. Karmie is trying to cultivate a new experience in that neighborhood. And it might work. It might not. Maybe it works in Napa Valley. Maybe it works in Manhattan.

Maybe it works in Vegas. LA and it doesn't work there. Or maybe those people want something that they don't know that they want. Or maybe maybe he has to find the happy medium. Maybe he has to find

the happy medium in that and also has he also has to find the happy medium in his own life. But Sid is already kind of looking at him like the style of cooking that you want to do might be stuffy. It might be like why are we still chasing? French and laundry.

the French laundry, this Michelin-style cooking. Can I say something about the Michelin thing real quick? Yeah. Y'all gonna laugh. I didn't know that the Michelin stars and the Michelin tire people were the same thing. We went over this in the last season, yes. Did we?

Yes. This is the Michelin, like, yeah, it is like a tire company. That shit jumped out of my, I literally had. We did. We went over that? We did because it's the Michelin, it's the Michelin Tire Company, and it was originally created

because they wanted people to obviously travel more because they're selling tires, so they would go around the world and it would be like, hey, you should visit this one star, two star, three star, and a lot of people were traveling. So,

or it's tires. Okay, so I'm, first of all, I'm sorry that I'm getting older because I totally forgot that we went over this already. But can we think of another situation where a company that's known

for like something that's as essential, as ho-hum, as tires also is that hearty in like another situation. It would be kind of like, I don't know, like if AutoZone was world renowned for Somaliase. I mean, so I know next to nothing about basketball, but isn't this the same as like McDonald's? Like fucking basketball tournaments and shit? No, because that's different because McDonald's holding basketball tournaments. It's a fast food restaurant holding basketball tournaments.

But nobody cares about, I mean, I guess people care about making the McDonald's All-American team, but nobody cares about the McDonald's award for the greatest. I mean, it's like, it's like if, this is kind of like if the Oscars were, if the Oscars were run by Bear Paint. Or if it was the, if it was, if the Oscars were, you know what I'm saying? Think about that. Something as if the Oscars, if like, it was. the Home Depot Award for movies. And everybody wanted, I want a Home Depot award for this movie. I want a Home Depot award.

That's kind of crazy that is Michelin, but it's also a French company, so they're a little bit more. I mean, but also you have to realize that's why it is so fraught where it's like, Sydney from the first season has already kind of been burnt by this Michelin Star hungry world. And so has Carmi. And I do think that even with. with Richie. Richie's like, I don't give a fuck. Like he said in the previous episode,

I don't give a fuck about this shit. And it's like, that is something that I do think in the culinary world. Other people could talk about this way more than me, but you know, you will hear chefs being like,

yo, what is the purpose of chasing a Michelin Star? Because just because you get a Michelin Star doesn't mean like your restaurant is going to be around forever. Not true. Even as we see in this season, restaurants are like dropping left and right.

So it is that thing in like any artistic form. It's like, motherfucker you might get a 9.0 on pitchfork, but you might have to cancel a tour. You know what I'm saying? Perfect albums don't mean you paying the bills. So let's look at the Michelin Star restaurants in Los Angeles real quick. There's 18 restaurants that have Michelin Stars.

I'm trying to see how many of these motherfuckers I've been to. So far, zero. Okay, so Osteria Mosavera Mosa, Mosa, I've been to. Gwen has a Michelin Star. Fantastic. Gwen is a steakhouse here in Los Angeles. There's no ones with two stars. Los Angeles surrounding restaurants.

It looks like there's only 18 that have it. So there's different type of Michelin stars. There's the three system. And then like you can get not a star, but let's say like a taco truck. They were talking about this on the watch. But like sometimes you'll go to like a taco truck or a small spot or a small restaurant or even in other countries where you can be Michelin recommended, even if you don't have a star.

Guys, we're podcasters. I'm not in the world. Culinary arts. But there's different levels of it. You know what I mean? I'm going to go to some of these places. How come they, we never go to these places, man. Tommy, Tracy, court.

Oh, my God. How come we don't go to these places? Like, we go. Like, we go. All right. As we wrap up this episode, Kai, get your ass on here. I got it.

This is a Kai's corner. What's going on? All right. So, I want to ask all of us, is the computer a little racist? Or try to get rid of Marcus? Kai, how are you feeling about this? It wasn't great.

It wasn't great. There might be a little bit there. I can't say for certain that he's like, you know, fully hates black people, but there's something there. Kai, you are the Marcus of this podcast? I got to ask, fan, if Justin Sales, the czar of Prestige TV and Bill Simmons, come down from on high and are just like, hey, man,

we got to get rid of Kai. What are you doing? I'm going to fight for Kai. You're going to fight for Kai? Yeah, to a degree. To a degree. To a degree. I'll take it.

To the degree, I'd go to the map for Kai. Guys are guy. What's the mat? Are you going to say keep Kai or I'm going to quit? Hey, bro. So shut the fuck up. Hollywood. That was a long silence, girls.

That's the thing. That was a long hesitation right there. I've done that before. I've been like, because the way I'll do it, sometimes when you're fighting for someone, you have to game the bosses. You have to say, like, oh, we think about getting real,

I'm like, ooh, okay. And they go, what? Because when you have to make decisions, you're always afraid to make a mistake. A lot of people are, I'd be like, oh, okay, okay, no, no, nothing, what? I just, things are just getting a lot harder. Really?

You think so? I'm like, yeah. I mean, are you not a, aware of what they actually bring to the table. Like, no, tell me, tell me. And then you're just going to it. I'm like, I'm just telling you, if you, if we lose him or her, things are going to be a lot harder.

Like, they just would be. But I mean, we get over it. What, five, six months, it would be tougher, but like, we get over it. But I just think if you're thinking about it, maybe we, you know, talk about what we're going to do when they're gone. That's how you would save, save cost job. That's going to work. Now, I'm telling you right now, I think sometimes people think that you go with these

emotional Rudy, please, and you lay your fucking thing down? That's not what people respond to. People respond to... I shouldn't be giving away these secrets over the company airways. People respond to planting doubt. Planting doubt. That's what people respond to. Planting doubt.

And you only do it if you really believe it. Like, I really think that this is a better podcast because Kai is... Oh, here's a thing. Kai is minted. This motherfucker is... Yeah. So I'm saying it. is people respond to planting doubt.

That's what they respond to. So if you value someone, because y'all are millennials, y'all like to go in there and go, I'm going to take it to Twitter. Not millennials, Gen Z is, I'm going to tell everyone on Twitter just how poorly I was treated.

That shit don't work. All that shit really does is makes the next people that want to hire you, not want to hire you because they don't want to be on a summer jam screen. If you want to be effective, don't do it that way.

Shout out Natalie, though. She went to bat for our guy, So she was a boss though She was a boss That's true That's different That's true That's true

She was a boss And somebody from Outside consultant Goes fire someone You could be like Fuck you You'll be fired She was a boss

Kai You gotta up the pastry game You're only making two pastries You know what I'm saying The computer's coming after you Speaking of Patriots What's your favorite pastry Hmm

I like a I like a cinnamon roll You weren't All right Kai Right, bro. Every, you never fail. That's right. I like cinnamon rolls.

Y'all don't like cinnamon rolls? No, no, no, I like cinnamon rolls. I've been had one in a long time. First of all, also, enjoy them while you're young. I can't remember. Like, if I go to Cineabon, it's just fucking up my entire day. Bro, what the fuck, bro? Hey, we got to talk about this real quick.

They used to put young van, I probably have talked about it here, with a 12, a 12-er. Krispy creams. Howsome. 12 crispy creams? 12 Krisp creams, hot milk. My dad used to be like, something wrong with that boy. That boy got a tapeworm. It's something wrong.

Howsome. Howsome. Sincere bun? It was like, Cineabon was a delightful, bro. I could eat a little piece of the cinnamon bun now. I could eat maybe one and a half of the crispy creams before a way.

of discomfort and sugar and ripping of the stomach comes up. It just, what changes? Oh, it's bad. Like, my, I know now if I eat a cinnabah, I'm like, oh, my feet getting tingly. I'm like, I can't do this yet anymore. I love the, and it's like,

and sometimes you bite into the cinnamon bun, you're like, ooh, that's sweet. I'm like, what the hell happened to me? Not to the kid. I can't, to your point, I can only have a nibble of a cinnabon, And even that, I'm just like, oh, fuck. Kai, can you crush a whole cinnamon bun by yourself still?

Oh, of course. I got a, in the other room, I got a Smoors donut that looks just insane waiting for me. Kai, enjoy it, bro. Kai, how old are you now? 25. You got five, six more years. I'll take advantage of them. But what I want from you, we got to elevate the taste level.

Do you have a local bakery? You know what I'm saying? Like, do you have a local bakery? Get something besides the fucking cinnamon rolls. All right? What pastry should be? could Kai get? There's a place called Mosty Malone ice cream

here in L.A. They do this great ice cream, but they also do it on this type of pastry. It's like a rose water pastry of some sort. It's like really good. Flaky, light. They put the ice cream on top of it.

It falls into each other. It's not overwhelming. It's sweet. It's perfect with the ice cream. Try to do a pastry that's like, like elevate the pastry. Do it. Do it. Like, do nice scone or Piscotti. Just try all the shit. Scone is good. Scott is good. I like that. I'm not as much of

a scone guy, but I fuck what scone. No, no, no. I'm not saying I'm not a scone guy, but have you ever had a scone? I don't think of ever. I don't know. I'm not sure I know what a scone is to be completely honest. See, this one I'm like, bro. All right, Kyle. It's a British, like, biscuit treat of some sort. It's all kinds of stuff,

though, man. Like, even go a little bit crazier, like the apple fritter. Apple, yeah. It's a S. K. Donuts here in L.A. I'm fat. I know all the spots for it. Have you ever had an apple fritter, Kai? Absolutely, no.

That's not for me. I already know that. How you know? The second you put, like, apple or strawberry or something like that in it, I'm just kind of out. You don't like a nice strawberry rhubarb?

Pastery? Apple fritter is not even a fancy pastry. It's actually along the same lines as a cinnamon roll, really. It's kind of a... But just get out of the cinnamon roll situation. Kai, Kai, all right, next time you come out to L.A.,

we take it. going on a food trip. We're trying new things. This is the content we need. We got video now. Guys, that has been the latest episode of the Bear Season 3. Okay, we will be back breaking down the rest of the season. Thank you so

much to Mr. Applefritter himself, Kai Grady. Thank you to my man Van. All right. Keep tuning in. We will see y'all. Ryan Reynolds here from MidMobil. I don't know if you knew this, but anyone can get the same premium wireless for $15 a month

plan that I've been enjoying. It's not just for celebrities, so do like I did and have one of your assistance assistants assistants switch you to MintMobile today. I'm told it's super easy to do at mintmobile.com slash switch. Up front payment of $45 for three-month plan equivalent to $15 per month required. Intro rate first three months only, then full price plan options available. Taxes and fees extra. See full terms at mintmobile.com.