The Prestige TV Podcast - ‘The Bear’ Season 3, Episodes 7-8: Chasing Ghosts

Episode Date: July 4, 2024

Charles and Van enter Valhalla to recap the seventh and eighth episodes of ‘The Bear’ Season 3. They start by discussing how Carmy’s legacy is intertwined with toxicity, why Syd is so attached to the restaurant, and the show’s unique relationship with the real-world fine dining industry (2:51). Later, they break down why “Ice Chips” ultimately fell flat and how this season feels like it’s doing a little too much with some of its creative swings (22:19). Hosts: Charles Holmes and Van Lathan Producer: Kai Grady Additional Production Support: Justin Sayles Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

If you're a fan of the inner workings of Hollywood, then check out my podcast, The Town, on the Ringer Podcast Network. My name's Matt Bellany. I'm founding partner at Puck and the writer of the What I'm Hearing newsletter. And with my show, The Town, I bring you the inside conversation about money and power in Hollywood. Every week, we've got three short episodes featuring real Hollywood insiders to tell you what people in town are actually talking about. We'll cover everything from why your favorite show was canceled overnight. Which streamer is on the brink of collapse? And which executive is on the hot seat? Disney, Netflix, who's up, down, and who will never eat lunch in this town again?

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visit the website for full terms and conditions. Welcome to the prestige TV podcast where it's always fuck silverware. I'm Charles Holmes. He's Van Lathen. Together we're known as the Midnight Boys.

And we're back reacting to the Bears season three. This episode, we're getting into episode seven and eight legacy and ice chips. Before I get there, Van, how you feel? Feeling good.

We're almost done with the, bear. It's been a long road. Can we talk about this? We've, Midnight Boy Summer. I'm starting to feel like some of your boys at the bear. We're going. They change the menu on us every day. We're getting up at 5 a.m. 6 a.m. for the love. Just potting, crushing tape. How are you feeling? I'm feeling good. I'm feeling good.

You know, we're doing our thing. We're in the era of content. We're here every day. We're potting, different shows, doing it. But, you know, There are times where I'm like, what else could I possibly watch? I'm having fun. I'm having fun. All right. I'm certain.

I really am. I'm having fun. Oh, it's been a blast, but I will tell you, dog, the naps. I'd be taken after these. But I'm just like, bro, I'm like, hey, we got to get there at 730, 80. I'm going to talk about House of the Dragon today. We're talking about the bear. Absolutely.

Episode 7 and 8, Legacy and Ice Chips. Legacy is directed by Joanna Callow, written by Christopher Storer. We begin with Sid. She's approached by Adam, who offers her a CDC position at his new restaurant after ever closes. Carmi and Marcus talk about the legacy of chefs, and Ibra finally gets some goddamn help at the beef window when some of the OG workers returned to assist him. Then in ice chips, directed by Christopher Store and written by Joanna Calo, sugar goes into labor, and the only person she can reach is her estranged mother Donna,

played by Jamie Lee Curtis. As the duo are stuck in the hospital waiting for Pete to arrive, they begin to reconcile their differences. So let's start with Legacy before we get into Ice Chips because Ice Chips is going to be maybe the most contentious part

of this conversation. Legacy is interesting to me. As a show itself. No, as a concept. Because even though I don't know if it lands the concept, it is probably the most, it's not subtle,

and it's the most overt moment in this season where we start to kind of get maybe what they're reaching for. Because Karmie says to Marcus when they're talking, they would talk a lot about legacy who they would work with, what they would go on to do. Something would start somewhere. People would take that thing and take it somewhere else.

So all these parts in an original restaurant would end up at a new restaurant. He's talking about Nobu and all those guys that are all in the same picture together, yeah. And then Sid walks in into the conversation and it continues. And he says, if I was going to leave something behind,

I would want it to be panicless, anxiety-free. And I think in order to do that, I would have to be square with everything and everybody to make it good. I'd have to filter out the bed. And at least this episode, what I was like, okay, I'm starting to get my arms around

what season three is trying to do is Carmis failing at that. He's failing at that legacy. He knows what he wants. Where in the beginning of the season in that first episode, we are seeing him fall in love

at Nobu, fresh laundry, all these different, all these French laundry, Noma, not no, Noma, all these other places ever, he's being taught in a certain way by these chefs who are passing down their knowledge, who are passing down everything that

they've learned, and in very gentle ways, even when they're stern. And then when he gets to Joe McHale's character, that's when it all breaks bad. That's when kind of his love of food starts to warp, his ambition starts to warp, his need for greatness gets him off this path. And you see these two people, Karmie and Sid, and I'm just like, there's what Karmie wants and he's saying and there's what he's doing.

And this season kind of is about how he's pushing Sid away, how the legacy of the bear might be toxicity. How do you feel like that conversation was? Did you enjoy that conversation? Was it a little too heavy-handed? Did it make sense? Did it come too late in the season? No, it didn't come too late.

I enjoyed it. I think it was maybe a little depowered by some other things that have happened. You know what? Maybe it should have come a little bit earlier in the season. Maybe it would have been better as a North Star for the season rather than coming at the point that it did. It still worked for me, though. I still enjoy it.

Karmie's trying to figure out which type of night he wants to be. Yeah. Either become a knight for power or you become a knight to protect. The power for him is that so we don't lose recipes. He's talking to, he's talking about legacy. Legacy is one thing, tradition is another. Sometimes intertwined, but they don't necessarily have to be. Legacy is about you.

Tradition is about community. And do you want legacy? Do you want something that you leave? Or do you want to be a part of a tradition, a greater cultural thing that lives on through, shared experiences through people. And he's talking about the legacy of those guys, but they're all together.

Yeah. So the tradition of being a great chef that pushed other chefs around you is very important to him. But he doesn't really surround himself with chefs. He is a very lonely man. He is surrounded with chefs. He just doesn't respect them like the rest of those guys

respect each other. Yeah, which I think is a different thing. He's not an asshole to them. He's not fool Joel McHale, but that chef affected Karmie. I think it affected Karmie because he survived it and because he survived it, he probably doesn't think that he's as bad as that guy.

Yeah. So if he's not as bad as that guy, he can't be an asshole. Even in the whole quest for the Michelin Star, it's less about inspiration than we remember from the character. And it's more about what he's, what he's been turned into. Yeah. I think that's interesting for him.

So when I looked at the picture, it just depends how you look at it, right? When I looked at the picture, it was like, yeah, each of those guys has an individual legacy. But the question of the show is, are we, you know, ever closed down? And the headline when it closed down and the show was, you know, is this going to be, is fine dining still appreciated? Is this the end of fine dining or whatever it said? And so does Carmie feel like he needs to,

press on and establish the bear for himself? Or does he feel like eating beautiful food in a beautiful atmosphere with fantastic service made by true artists? Is that enough for him to pour into if it's not all about him? Do you think he respects, Sid, because that is also the tension this entire season, where Sid is his partner, he wants her to sign this. partnership agreement, they obviously have this great admiration for each other. But when it comes to his cooking, he takes away, he changes his recipes, he doesn't necessarily

listen to her. And what I find interesting is that why wouldn't Sid just take the offer from our dude to be the new CDC, she'd get $80,000 a year plus a bonus, she's going to get health insurance right off the bat. Like, why do you think Sid she's happy about it? and you know she wants to take this opportunity, but she still feels this loyalty to Carby. It's the first thing I said when I saw the scene.

I was like, why wouldn't she take it? You know what I mean? Literally, the first thing I saw when I saw the scene is, why wouldn't she take it? She is hesitant about a full buy-in to the bear because she refuses to sign the partnership agreement. The partnership agreement. she's not feeling as seen as she has in times past

because of Karmie making several unilateral decisions without her. She doesn't feel like she can really fight back against some of the decisions that he's making because he's such a talented chef and she is still in a way enamored with talent. So if the idea is better or if it tastes great, there's still a part of her that succumbs to

it. She's not as process driven about the way it should be. She's not as she brings it up but she doesn't protest as much as she does because his ideas are so good. But it's minimizing. She's in a spot

or has been offered a spot where she would be the complete person. The question is does she not believe in herself or does she overly believe in Karmie? So I think what's interesting about talking about both of these episodes together is Sugar says something to her mother

in the next episode we'll discuss where she's kind of like my entire life was trying to make you happy, was trying to be seen by her mother. And I'm like, oh, that is a perfect parallel to Sid and Karmie because we see Sid's face finally in this, season when she first tastes his cooking. And I do think that there is a level of, I want this man, this chef to recognize me. I want him to think that I'm on the same level. I want him to think

that my food is just as good as his. I'm just as skilled. And it's something that Karmie is not really willing to give. And I do think that that is the perfect example of a toxic relationship, where a lot of times you're staying in something because you're like, it's not about money. It's not about acclaim. It's about this one person that I want to be seen by and they are withholding that for me. That's what I'm just like, yo, you're a woman when a woman has feelings

where you're just like, damn, that's great. But the woman who's just like, nah, I'm cool. You're just like, damn, it's a challenge. You're already, that's like, that's how people feel, even in the workplace where it's like, The motherfucker who's not giving you any shine, you want to impress them. You know? And that was part of my thing where it's like, to your point, I was like,

Sid, sister, get the fuck of that there. So it's interesting. That whole thing made me think about something in the episode did too. And you also see Sid doing other things like moving out of the house. Yeah. Different people have different ideas of when you're on your own. Like what that means to be an adult, to be on your own. like to be with your own thing, do your own stuff.

I'm watching her character kind of negotiate with herself what it means to be her own person. You see that she's a leader in the kitchen, that she's moving out, getting her own place, but there's parts, steps that she's not willing to take. She's not willing to take ownership of the restaurant. She's not willing to press to be equally yoked by Carmen. She still wants to please him or still wants to impress him.

It made me think about something. Like, in my own personal life, I didn't actually become a man, and he's going to sound weird, until my father died. The reason being is because I don't think that you are a full adult, grown person until you've stopped living for other people, whoever those people might be. Yeah. My father didn't live for anybody else's approval or validation. I lived for his every second of every day. When he was gone abruptly like that, it was like just over.

Like there was nothing else you could do. Like just for an eternity, you'd think whatever he thought about me is what he thought. However he viewed me is what it is. And so now the whole part of the hole that was left is that I have to figure out what my life looks like, just living it for me. Like just living it for how I think the world is,

not caring about how I'm perceived or what type of man I show up as for somebody else. That has to be me. And it changes your decision matrix. It changes the way you treat other people, right? It changes the way you step into different opportunities because you're thinking about how the people that you're protecting and the people that rely on you

and you're not workshoping everything with somebody else. You're not calling somebody else to see if you made the right decision. Like the training wheels are off. And I'm not saying that there's like that necessarily for everyone,

that they have to feel that absence. But eventually, in everybody's life, you have to get to a point to where you're like, fuck it. I've been given enough tools. Some of them are sharp, some of them are dull. But this is what I'm,

I have to build with. And so the only thing that would stop her character from going out and staking her own claim in the world is if she doesn't feel like she's as good as him. Yeah.

Because that's her benchmark. That's her measuring stick. That's her litmus test. To your point, bring up your father, what it reminded me of is like, Karmie is still chasing the ghost of Mikey's approval. He's still having flashbacks of it's like he still seems like that kid

who was taking photos at Noma and texting them back to Mikey because he wants to be seen. He never had a chance of working the beep. So he builds a better beef or whatever. Like it seems like Mikey, he's chasing the example of what Mikey thought he was going to be. Yeah. And it's like, and that is what's so interesting because it's like,

because honestly, I don't actually think Karmie's his own man yet. Because I think the death has unmoored him. I do think that because he's chasing the ghost of who his family needs him to be, there is a level of like, almost when he's making his food, there's not that love that you would see

in the beginning seasons of when Karmie would cook and Sid would eat and you're just like, oh, there's love in this dish. There's torment in the dishes. He looks miserable when he's cooking. He throws them. You see him throwing stuff away and you look, first of all, they should have,

kitchen should have like designated people. I was about to say designated eaters. That's crazy, bro. I was about to say designated eaters. I don't know if you should say that. Designated eaters. But like, when I just think about, I thought about him, he made that dish and he didn't like it,

so he threw it away, I was thinking, I would have ate that. If they just had me in there, there. I could be in there with my computer. You know, I'm working. I could podcast from there. And then if they make a dish and then somebody taste it and they don't like the way it tastes, just give it to Vann.

Any restaurant in L.A. Where would you be willing to be a designated eater? Designated eater. I feel, you got some designated eaters in your phone? I know. I bet you do. I bet you do. Hollywood Homes, man. It's I would be a designated eater at horses.

I will be a designated eater at Blood Soes. The barbecue joint, although I think they pretty, they probably wouldn't need me that much. There's a couple of places I would be a designated, La Petit Troa. Okay. Be a designated eater, cuckoo in West Hollywood. Why aren't you taking me to any?

I'm not part of the Black Aluminati yet. These restaurants are great restaurants, man. These are great places to eat, man. horses. Oh my God. This episode is brought to by Whole Foods Market. Spring is here, so celebrate it with fresh, juicy, seasonal produce and some very tasty limited time flavors. New Whole Foods, Market Peach, Apricot, Rose, Italian soda. Perfect for a picnic or brunch, as is their trending mango, Yuzu chantilly cake.

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Don't share needles or pens or reuse needles. Don't take if allergic to it, or if you or someone in your family had medullary thyroid cancer, or if you've had multiple endocrine neoplasia syndrome type 2. Tell your doctor if you get a lump or swelling in your neck. Stop Zepbound and call your doctor if you have severe stomach pain or a serious allergic reaction. Severe side effects may include inflamed pancreas or gallbladder problems. Tell your doctor if you experience vision changes before scheduled procedures with anesthesia

if you're nursing, pregnant, plan to be, or taking birth control pills. Taking Zep bound with a sulfonel urea or insulin may cause low blood sugar. Side effects include nausea, diarrhea and vomiting, which can cause dehydration and worsen kidney problems. Talk to your doctor. Call 1-800-545-99-9 or visit zepbounds.lily.com. I want to ask you a larger question about what this show has to say about restaurants, celebrity chefs, because so many real chefs appear in the season, like Thomas Keller,

Adam Shapiro, Renee Redzeppe, Wally Dufrein, all these people. And it's like, I'm starting to be. get confused about whether the bears, and maybe it's more complicated than this, does the bear think that fine dining as an industry is important, Michelin Stars are important, that chasing this world of art is something that is worthwhile, does it think that being wrapped up in that type of industry, that acclaim, sometimes that emptiness takes away from the very the reality of cooking is one of the most intimate things that you can do for someone.

You are nourishing them. You are feeding them. You are making them a lot of times feel better. And it's funny where it's like every single time a celebrity chef comes is in a flashback. I'm just like it feels like it's glorifying that world of fine dining. But then when we go back to Carmian shit,

that world of fine dining is destroying people's lives. It's destroying a community. Like, if we want to be real, there's a level of, like, it's not destroying the community, but, like, even the guys who are helping Eber are like, yo, people are complaining. They're not getting their sandwiches. They're fucking waiting out here. These are your day one fucking customers, and you're not pleasing them. So I'm at this part in the season, I'm just like, what does the bear have to say about this industry?

I think the question is about the industry, but I also think it's a more fundamental question. And I think we've always asked in society, but for some reason we're asking it more now. And that question is, is something important just because it's beautiful? Yeah. The food that they show in this show and the restaurants that they show are gorgeous.

They're impeccable. The process to get to them is torturous, like you said. So the question, becomes, is it worth it? Is the bear important as a restaurant? Something important just to be, is something worth it just because you get beauty out of it and how much beauty is worth the pain?

We talked about this. I got a, I got a Brazilian wax. We did not talk about this on the bear podcast. We talked about this on the midnight boys. And look, I just say this real quick to all the ladies out there. A lot of y'all are beautiful. I don't know if it's worth it. the Brazilian wax

I was ever since you talked about this Brazilian wax I was just like should I just go experience it just go do it and then you'll have what's the prep involved there's no prep I was I was told to take to Advil

before but I forgot and so I was there raw dog in the Brazilian wax was this was this like the 40 year old virgin like when he goes in they're like ripping that shit off his I'll tell you something shout out to Judd

and all of the people that was quaint quaint compared to what the situation was and that was his chess. It's not what we're talking about. It's different. So not to derail things too much,

which I love to do. But what I'm saying is I think that's kind of the thing that we're getting into. And then when you're making art with someone, you know, you're clashing about what you think tastes good, what your taste is.

Richie in the front of the house, how he looks at things. There are a lot of questions the show is asking art versus commerce. legacy versus tradition, individualism versus collaboration. Those are all things that are being litigated in the show. The question is, are we getting enough of any one of those things

to undergird this type of dramatic expression? And I think people that don't think that we are, I don't think they're 100% wrong. So, I mean, the thing that I'm most interested in this show, to be honest, is the restaurant, is the relationship between Karmie and Sid.

And I think it's genius on a structural level to make the first season going to the beef. We fall in love with this very crusty, old Italian beef shop. Second, they're building,

they're showing you like, this is how hard it is to build a fine dining establishment. And in the third season, I don't think it was a misstep to be like, well, this is the season of how do you run that fine dining establishment. And I don't think they've paid enough attention to it

because the next episode we're talking about ice chips. I want to say this. Ice chips is a phenomenally acted 30, 40 minutes of television. If you like this episode, like I just,

nothing against you. I do think, like I see the merits in it. But this is a perfect example of them just like you have 10 episodes. I don't know what purpose ice chips serves besides

like highlighting these two characters that to me are on such the periphery of the show that it did feel a little I was a little let down not because like once again like as a piece of art in a vacuum the episode is beautiful but in terms

of my enjoyment of the show I'm like what are we doing? Charles ice chips sucks yeah all right I was trying to do the like very like TV critical thing I know He was just like, come on, keep it. They tried it, it didn't work. You know how I know it doesn't work? Because I paused it.

Usually with the episode of the bear, I'm going to finish that shit because it has a little bit of momentum. It took me a couple days to restart the season again because I was like, dog, I still got half an hour left of this shit, bro. For all the reasons the Christmas episode with Jamie Lee Curtis worked, this one failed. Can I ask this about Jamie Lee Curtis,

who I think is a phenomenal actress. I'm getting a little bit tired of Jamie Lee Curtis always being the character now. Like the old, resentful, mean lady. I feel like I've seen that in a lot of a recent work where I'm like,

I guess I'm different, bro. I didn't like this episode at all. I think Jamie Lee wasn't put in a position to succeed here. It was great. It was boring. It was indulgent. It was hyper indulgent.

It was precisely the type of episode that I don't feel like the show would have made before. It was a fart sniffing television episode. It did not work at all. Also, it being so close to the Tina episode where I'm just like, the Teno episode worked for me because it circled back around to the restaurant. Where it's like even though it took a divergent path,

I learned something about the bear. I learned something about Mikey. I learned something about Richie. I learned something about this community. And it informed Tina in the past, but more importantly in the present. With this, I'm like, what the fuck?

I don't, like, of course I learned about the Brazzado family and this cycle of toxicity and abuse and all of that. I'm going to be honest, that part of the, when the show becomes too reliant on that, I, I'm just like, this is, I don't like you. Yeah, if this episode is, is, um, It was Seven Fishers was a Christmas episode.

Seven Fish was a Christmas episode. If this episode is a, if it's serving as a de facto sequel to that episode, it fails miserably. There's not a lot of, and you can tell that it is because in the beginning of the episode where she has no one else to call or no one else to go to the hospital with her besides her mother, it's like, oh, my God, Jamie Lee Curtis's character is back. But by the end of that episode, it's not about her anymore. It's not about the mother character anymore. The mother character, their mom, she's the tension in the back of everybody's mind. Yeah.

But that sensational episode of television is about so much more than that. So this one is almost trying to ride the coattails of it. And honestly, for a lot of reasons, it's well-acted. The show has never poorly acted, but it was just a miss of a creative choice. the concept of this is bad. Can we also be real? Like, pregnancy is beautiful.

Kids are beautiful. I've always felt this way on TV shows, like when I would watch friends and, like, Rachel was having her kid. I was like, I don't know if having a kid is that exciting for a TV show. Like, a woman being in labor, for 40 minutes, I'm like, bro, no one cares.

It's like telling me your dream. I don't care. Like, if it's my wife having a kid, the kid, most interesting thing in the world. If it's some motherfucker that I don't know, I'm like, I'll catch you when the baby's here. Charles Holmes, anti-childbirth. Well, no, no, no, no.

I am pro-childbirth. If you need to use an epidural, that is fine, no one. Just okay, stand on it. Stand on. I'm anti-childbirth. Don't do this. Well, it's like any other device. It depends on the way it's used.

That is true. It can be highly dramatic. It can be, think about how many movies, television shows end with the birth of a child just because it's such a transformative thing. But in this one, it's poorly used. And it's not something to me, because childbirth is one thing, labor is another. Labor is a very long time. The birth of the child, the baby's coming is one thing.

You know what I mean? You tell somebody what you always thought, oh, you're going to be whatever. But in this situation here, there just wasn't enough. around it. And we haven't seen these two characters interact enough to hope that they get it right. This hasn't been enough work done on it, if you ask me. I mean, also, I think the thing that was interesting to be

about this episode is I do think it's a sequel to fishes. And I do think the show now has a tendency where because fishes worked so well and because it was in like a play where we just have long scenes and you're on kind of like one say, it's not moving that much. I do feel like I don't know what's happening in the season where it's like, why are these scenes so long?

Why is it just so much dialogue, very little action? Like, you're giving the actors a lot of material to work with. But at a certain point, I'm like, I don't want, like, monologues, monologue after monologue, dramatic argument after argument starts to not work if you keep. keep going back to it because, like, I just got an acting tour de force with Tina and Mikey. Yeah. So it's like using that same trick over and over and over again.

It starts not to work as much, you know? The show likes itself. I mean, look, like, you guys, the bear is a great television show. You got three seasons of the bear now. We're almost at the end of the third season. and it is a great television show. This season, the show started to like itself.

Do we think, because we compared it, we called it White Atlanta, I think on our second episode recapping it, do you think that it does have that Atlanta problem where it's like we liked season three of Atlanta, but that was also a show where I think a lot of people are like, this show is feeling itself now. It's a show that knows it broke the mold. It's a show that knows it's at the center of zeitgeist.

And that is making a piece of, art at the zenith at the top of your craft is different than when you're on the rise because we still we keep saying it you could be surprised when you're the man now when io is in ios voicing a character in like a billion dollar Pixar movie like fucking you know jeremy allen white is how many years away from an Oscar they all have their emies now i think as a creator it's impossible for that not to infect the art it happens you know and also it's about what the medium of television is and about understanding

how you serve people while at the same time pressing forward, you know? It's like, I watched that movie The Founder. Okay. And it was about the McDonald Brothers. Wait, oh, I was about The Founder. I was like, why are you watching this movie recently?

I watch it. I love that movie. I watch it all the time. Because the reason why I watch that movie, if you guys haven't seen The Founder, the Founder is about, It's with Michael Keaton and What's your boy? I always forget his name. I don't know why. Nick Offerman.

And they are, it's about Ray Crock who came over and took over McDonald's from the McDonald's brothers. Yeah, and he's trying to franchise it. He doesn't try. He does. Takes their restaurant and then makes billions and billions of dollars

and paid them out like a million bucks or two million bucks. And they invented the system that basically all fast food restaurants came to emulate was really about simplifying everything so that people would do it over and over

and over and over and over again. That's what really was it was about. But you used to go, they had a restaurant and you used to go to their restaurant or their fast food stand and it was hamburgers on the menu, it was fries on the menu, but it was also fried chicken

and it was ribs and it was all that other stuff And they looked at all of it and they went, people only respond, people are only buying three things. So that's all we're going to sell. People are buying burgers, fries, and shakes. So that's all we're going to sell.

That's all we're going to sell. We're going to sell that and sell it faster and better. And then before you knew it, the people had adapted to the fact that that was the deal. Yeah. You know? And so, and then,

so they were able to sell it to a gabillion people. What is it? Like a gabillion burger sold or whatever? When you're making something, artistic. And that's why, you know, it's very easy to say, hey, everybody's fucking with us now. So let's put another thing on the menu. It's got to be right. Because we're coming back for the same thing. Ice chips to me, two people in a hospital room all day long. That's not why I watch the bear. That's serving ribs at your hamburger joint. You don't like a rib witch?

I like a McRib I had a face talking about we're talking about food How come they never put McRib on the goddamn Bear show? They should

Who's gonna do an elevated take on the McRib? An elevated take on the McRib? Who's going to do it? Somebody should do that. Somebody should open up

a McDonald's a restaurant in L.A. That's patterned after McDonald's. They had that one vegan one. But all they do is take the McDonald's

concepts and elevate them. This sounds terrible. terrible. I'll be at that motherfucker. I want elevated Big Mac. I want elevated quarter pounder with cheese. I want elevated salad. I want elevated

McRib. I want elevated Mighty Wings. You want a vanilla milkshake reduction? Elevate. Just take the do the restaurant and elevate everything in the McDonald's restaurant on the menu. There's a chef listening. If you have an

elevated McRib at your restaurant in LA, hit us up. DM one of us. By the way, if you out there, you can make it, I want to try that motherfucker. And at the same time, think about it. Elevated McFlurry that works, like a McFlurry souffle or something,

I don't know, elevate the shit. Yo, McFlurry as a kid, bro. Used to just a bus. Just right after baseball. Come back, you go get the McFlurry. Used to go crazy. But there was no fucking. sadness deeper that I'm like, oh, we get

to McFurray today. You come and me like, yeah, that shit, bro. I'm like, my dad blew up at the McFlurry people. He was like, what's the point of it? Well, what's the point? What y'all doing? So every time we come here, you know the boy like the, look at the boy. You can tell you like a McFlurry. Every time we come here, y'all ain't got one.

I think y'all bullshit. Bring no flurrying out. Curseal was like, Terry, please drive away. Yo. He was, he would get you had a very rat tip. But you know what I'm saying? So, you know. Do you think that there is a level of like life imitating art with this season because it is funny that

this is a season about Karmie almost being a prisoner to his ambition, constantly wanting to change the menu every single, every single day, not wanting to give the comfort food that like people are begging like, hey, people love coming back to have a dish that they can bite into. And the show is almost in this season does seem like a prisoner of its ambition a little bit, does seem like it's switching up the menu. It's trying to push things forward, but in that is being almost a little bit indulgent. Sometimes you get a great episode,

you get great service, and then the next day you're like, man, what's going to lay? Everything good in the back? It's not as cohesive as it used to be. This episode is by far the worst episode of the show. It's not even close. Really?

I mean, I agree. I'm trying to point devil's happy, but I agree. It's not even close at Ice Ships is the worst episode of the bear ever. But look, here's the thing. there's no such thing as a great piece of art that doesn't experience some growing pains. There's some shows you watching the first season isn't that great.

And then it goes crazy. Star Wars Rebels. Better call Saul. I would argue it got off to a slow start. Then some seasons dip off in the second season is pretty typical. The third season, then they come back. I don't know how much more to bear we're going to get.

but it's clear that this one overall is not quite as on part with the other two seasons and this episode in particular was it almost seemed like another show. I mean, wrapping up, do you feel at all like the bear in season four

because we still have to watch the penultimate in the finale? But do you think that this is an outlier season? do you think that this is just a kind of like maybe this is just the four-season show maybe this isn't like something that's going to run forever and we're just getting to the most difficult part honestly

of any TV show any story movie book whatever beginnings are easy endings are hard that's why most finale suck that's why later seasons suck because it's just like we fall in love with these characters we know what you have given us. So now we're judging you against that.

And there's no good way to say goodbye sometimes. Because also I think what the bear has also done is like, we love these characters so much. I'm like, yo, sugar's cool, Donna's cool. Where the fuck is Marcus? Where's Sid? Where's Tina? Where's, you know, where's Richie and Carmi?

And I do think in the season, like, what's Marcus done this season? Marcus in earlier seasons was great because he had some intrigue to him. Yes. You were like, is this guy okay, being obsessed with the donut and all of that stuff? Sugar literally as a character

only works as the conscience of the thing. And oftentimes she's like the wet blanket. She's literally the like cliche woman character that has to come in and be like... Damn. What? Kai. Come get your man, bro.

Am I wrong? Kai, your man, is your man not wilding over here, bro? That line was kind of crazy. He's anti-childbirth, cliche woman character. No, I'm not saying She's always a character that got to like pop the balloon And be the wet legist.

That's what women do? I mean, no, no, no, I think that's what women in media. Like, I think that's what you say cliche women character. I mean, this is the way women are portrayed. I think that that is kind of the problem with Claire and sugar a little bit. Where they don't get to have as much agency as like a Ritchie. Like Ritchie gets to go on an adventure. And you're like, hell yeah.

Like, fucking. Claire occupying, manic, pixie dream girl. Like, I mean, she is, right? Like, and so the... Sugar's episode can't be a fun episode. She got to be having a baby and then reconciling with her mom. I'm like, I get it, narratively speaking.

But I'm like, can I... If the episode would have been like, sugar keeping the bear together while the baby is coming, that probably would have been a little bit better than just having her in the thing with her mom. I would have loved her. to her having like also all of the other, I want to see Carmi and Sid

and all of these other characters respond to her having a baby in the middle of service because she is, I think, the best parts of sugar is her being the glue of this show, her being, to your point, the conscious. That's when she's like, yo, fuck you, I'm not getting rid of Marcus.

I love that. I want to see that protective mama bear. And in this is just like, she's eating ice chips alone. Yeah. All right, so we have to, Now let's get to Kai's corner. Kai, how do you feel about how women are betrayed in media?

Yeah, answer the question. We talk about chicken tenders and pop tarts. Then you're throwing this at me? Does your, Kai, be real. Do you expect your lady to fix you a plate? Absolutely not. I mean, I'm eating a lot of microwave stuff anyway, so. So when you're out, when you're out at the cookout, you're not with the family, you're not like A, you know, make my plate, you know.

Can I be honest with you about Kai, though? Because I've hung out with you. Kai and his girl and his sister. This is real. Kai is a little leader. He is. But he's not, he's not an ogre. I remember I asked his sister something one time.

She was at the house, like lovely, nice little woman. Like, great. So cool. Kai's family. Kai, Kai is great. Kai's girl and his sister's so great. I remember I asked her something and she looked at him and she goes, it's whatever he says.

And I was like, whoa. Is this true, Kai? Do you have anything to say? She's like a little mini-me. I love my sister. She's the best. She's great. No, no, no, no.

Don't back away from the question. Are you the boss? No, I'm not the boss. No, I don't think so. I wouldn't say he's the boss, but I would say that Kai has cultivated a situation where people feel confident and safe around him. I'll take that.

Yeah. He's confident and safe around him. You're a little bit like Sid. Like people. He's a little. Kai's like a little leader. You can see Kai with a family one day and being a boss and stuff like that.

Kai really impressed Kalika. This is amazing because I never impressed Kalika. Kalika's always like, we got to help Charles. Hawaii! She's always like, we got to help Charles. He's like, she's like, I can see Charles being a party boy for the next seven years. Oh, well, guys, L.A. is just...

Yeah. But when Kyle left Kalika was like, wow, what is... impressive young man. I was like, Impressive, he said, yeah, yeah. Kai, come to the dark side, come out to L.A. Can't. Korea Town, Kai, come on.

Oh, that's good. That's good. I like that. Kai, I have to ask you, how are you feeling about this season? Are we being a little too harsh? No, I think you're kind of right where I'm feeling about it. I think that that first episode is one of the best episodes of the series.

And I think after that, it's just kind of stuck in place a little bit and kind of treading water. in a lot of ways. I think you guys touched on it eloquently, but it's just like there's big swings, some of them land,

some of them do not. Ice chips didn't work for me either. It's a shame. It feels like that first episode was so thought out and so, like, executed so well, and then the rest of the season feels a little bit rushed.

It feels a little bit like they didn't really know where they wanted to go next in a lot of ways. So I'm a little cold on it. To Van's earlier point, I think that like, I enjoy the characters

in the world enough to still be having fun and still enjoying the show in the season, but I think it's a significant. Not a significant, but it's a noticeable drop off. They lost chicken tender. Kai, bro.

Hey, guys, we got two more episodes. It can land the plane. Don't worry. It won't be as dower. We're going to get back on this train. Any departing words for people who might be feeling a little bit bummed out.

It happens. We got two more episodes. It's good. Like, the bear is still the bear. It happens. People take chances. Shows change. Stuff happens.

It happens. We got another season to go. It's fine. Even if we finish off in this season wasn't as good as two or one, it's a part of creating. It's a part of putting stuff out there. You take chances sometimes they work.

Sometimes they don't. It happens. Oh, yeah. Guys, we have one more episode left. When we get back, we will be reacting to episodes. 9 and 10. You know, thank you so much.

To Midnight Boy, higher learning fame, Van Lathen. Thank you to Bossman. Kai Grady on the boards. Thank you to Justin Sales. Guys, we'll be back very soon.