The Prestige TV Podcast - ‘The Bear’ Season 4, Episodes 1-3: Back in Business (For Now)

Episode Date: June 26, 2025

Van Lathan and Charles Holmes chase after a Michelin star to recap the first three episodes of ‘The Bear’ Season 4. (0:00) Intro (4:56) Instant reactions (17:52) Did the audience response to Season 3 change the trajectory of the show? (32:58) Is Syd becoming Carmy? (47:49) How long can ‘The Bear’ run? Email us! [e-mail] Subscribe to the Ringer TV YouTube channel here for full episodes of ‘The Prestige TV Podcast’ and so much more! Hosts: Van Lathan and Charles Holmes Producers: Kai Grady and Donnie Beacham Jr. Video supervision: Chris Thomas Additional Production Support: Justin Sayles Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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The backyard tradition now available behind the counter. visit your local deli today. Discover the craftsmanship behind every bite. Borshead committed to craft since 1905. Welcome to the prestige TV podcast where the menu was still chaotic and we blame our elegance for the flower budget. I'm Charles Holmes. He's Van Lathen. Together we're known as Midnight Boys. Midnight Boys. And we're back to discuss season four of the Bear. How are you doing today, Van? A big confidence monitor. There's a big, a leg usually takes this away on Midnight Boys. We can't even see it, but I'm glad I love a confidence monitor.

I'm great. Talking about the confidence monitor, were you going to inform me that about our wardrobe, we're matching, we look like fucking boys to men? I like that shit. We should wear this every single time. I didn't even realize it. We should wear this every single time we do the bare podcast. Or maybe we should dress up like they dress up.

What do they wear? They wear like the white with the apron. Yeah. This is our first one like prestige. Like on the TV. You finally fucking gave us the fucking budget. gave us the vibes here. I'm fantastic because I got to watch some good TV.

Yeah. Hell yeah. But we need to do some housekeeping. So if you guys don't know who we are, we are the Midnight Boys. And I think this is the third year in a row. We started with season two where we're covering the bear. So we're going to be covering three episodes each show. If you like what you hear, you can hear Van twice a week on Higher Learning.

If you like what you hear on this podcast, the Midnight Boys have one of the most consequential summers coming up right now. Superman Fantastic 4, Jurassic Park. So make sure that you go click and subscribe and make sure that you click and subscribe to the Ringer TV YouTube channel or watch us right on Spotify. Yeah, I got to say that Rob Mahoney and Joe

have been holding it down over here. They have. They've been doing their thing and I'm with it. I enjoy what's happening over on the Prestige TV podcast. Talking about Rob Joe, where we at, with the face of the ringer. It was Mallory Rubin.

Dark Horse Kennedy. Yeah. Dark horse candidate, but I like this. So the finals were Bill, Sean, Mallory, Chris Ryan. I thought for sure that Chris would win. What I didn't realize, though, was that Rachel Lindsay and Chris Ryan have some, I want to say beef, but there's a thing there. So when Rachel, whose decision it was, the face of the ringer decision,

I chose the finalist. She chose the winner. We scored the entire group of perspectives. And she scored Mallory De Hise. Mallory Rubin. Faced with the ringer. Rachel Lindsay might be the only person at the ringer. Doesn't like Chris Ryan.

Rachel Lindsay. What did Chris go to Rachel? There was some talk about what happened on the last podcast. I guess there was something back in the day where Chris did not. Was it? recognized by Rachel. Okay, Rachel didn't recognize Chris. That happened on the higher learning.

And then, I don't know if there was some kind of awkward meeting. Their frenemies is how Rachel described them. And so, Chris, the leader and frontrunner and the people's choice. From Face of the Ringer, did not win. Mallory Rubin. Shout out of fucking mouth. Hell yeah. That's like a home game for me.

I loved it. But as to non-faces of the run. We weren't there. We didn't make the finals. Anyway, are you ready to get into the first three episodes of the bear? I'm going to give us a little background, some plot, and then get right into the episode. Christopher Storer, creator of the bear back directing the first three episodes. He writes the first.

He gets an assist on the second episode in their director's chair with Duccio Fabri and Catherine Chitina and Renee Gube. write the second and third episodes. If I butcher any of those names, I'm very sorry. And in this first trio, we start in the wake of the Chicago Tribune's middle and review. Karmie is stuck in a groundhog day of his own making. He's trying to be less miserable, quit smoking, and be a better boss.

But Uncle Jimmy and the computer inform the crew that they only have two months to save the restaurant. Kami decides the only way to keep the place open is chasing a Michelin Star. The rest of the crew do their best to rise to the occasion. Sid pushes back on Karmie more and takes a larger role in shaping the mission. menu and kitchen. Richie hires his old buddies from Ever, Jessica, Renee, and Gary, Tina

Marcus and Sweeps are taking more ownership of their stations, while Ibrahim is devoting himself to the only profitable part of the business, the Italian beef sandwiches. Feeling better about his new lease on life, Carmie goes to apologize to Claire and admit that he loves her, but his old flame isn't ready to fully invite Carmi back into her life. And with all that being said, Van, instant reactions, first three episodes. I thought they made a very important decision in these first three episodes, which was to get back to what I felt like the ethos of the show was. The bear has always been, to me, a show that is asking the question about how personal growth connects to professional obsession and the quest for professional excellence.

I thought the third season lost that a little bit. Yep. I thought the third season of the show, even though it rounded itself out in a great way, the third season lost a little bit of the personal aspect of the show in terms of the characters in their growth. I'm not saying that there wasn't personal stuff that happened in the third season.

It was. But I think some of the really intense moments of the show became the entire show in the third season, along with some stunt casting. What I really enjoyed about these first three episodes is they were able to use a dramatic device, which is a legitimate or a literal running clock on the bear, along with Karmie just letting go.

Yeah. Letting go and being a little bit more devoted to his growth as a person. And orienting the first three shows around that, I was able to fall into it a little bit more than I was the last season of the show. I could not agree more because I think with last season, I think it's a very interesting gamble to create an entire season about someone who was stuck in a rut. But with this season, I'm like, oh, it's far more engrossing and entertaining to me

seeing someone climb themselves out of that. Where I feel like in the last season, it felt like Karmie was almost at rock bottom. Like he had gotten everything he wanted. He had gotten the beer. He had finally opened this restaurant. But it seemed like he was at rock bottom with his grief, with his relationship with this woman and everything. And this, at least the first three episodes,

It felt like a breath of fresh air to me. It felt like, oh, more sitcom-y, more just like, oh, I get to hang out with my friends again. And I get to see them all facing challenges. And to me, I know I don't want to seem reductive, but it just was a more enjoyable show to watch almost. Yeah, I agree. So something happens at the very beginning of the show. It's Mikey, who John Bernthal's character, is back.

It's the first thing that we see him. He always, he pops into the show like Darth Vader. You know the Kevin Smith, Darth Vader thing? You don't want to see too much of Darth Vader because too much of Darth Vader would take away the mystique of the character.

They're doing a great job and sprinkling that character in, like, you know, Darth Vader from Star Wars, giving us just enough of him so that we see him and, like, understand his place in this universe. but they have a conversation at the beginning

when he's stirring the spaghetti sauce and they're talking about their dad. Karmie doesn't know him as well. Mikey does. And Mikey is trying to convince Karmie that their father's an asshole. Karmie is trying to ask Mikey about their dad and telling him why his father's happiness when he was in this one particular restaurant,

why I met so much to Karmie. and why Karmie wants to recreate that feeling for other people. That to me was an awesome scene in plotting out the emotional path of the show. It gave me something. I'm like, okay, this is what you guys are marching towards. Right, because the most fundamental question anyone can ask themselves is why am I an asshole? Yep. Not whether or not you're an asshole or not.

most assholes know that they're assholes. You're talking to someone who is the Supreme Assulul. The question of why I'm an asshole is a more profound question because that's a question that you ask whether it's worth it. Yeah.

Because if it's worth it to be an asshole, if you got to be an asshole to be Steve Jobs, or if you got to be an asshole to be Kobe Bryant, or if you got to be an asshole to be Oprah Winfrey, then you might say, you know, what, people having this perception of me, people looking at me like this, it's worth it. Because I have greatness to give to the world. I have personal greatness.

I have inspiration. I have innovation to give to the world. But if it's not, the moment that it's not, the moment that what you can produce isn't worth the pain that you give to people, you should change. Yeah. And Karmie is asking himself this question. They're asking Karmie to do a little less. take a couple of things off the plate.

Be more about connection. Be more about what you're putting into people. Because as great as you are at this, the asshole that we're getting for your greatness, we don't like it. And it's actually holding us back. And even the world in the Chicago Tribune is like, is this worth it?

Yeah, you're not, it's, is it worth it? It's not worth it. It's everything about you that's not connecting with people, your dissonance, your aloofness, your unpredictability, your chaos, it's in the food. Yeah. It's in the food. So this is a season about whether or not Karmie can be a little bit more of a person and whether or not being a little bit more of a person is going to make him a better chef.

I mean, going back to that scene with him and Mikey in the beginning, it's so interesting because Karmie's recollection of this Irish restaurant is the rose-colored glasses where he just remembers his father being happy. And it takes Mikey to be like, that restaurant was a piece of shit. It smelled like shit. It wasn't that great. And that whole time I was thinking,

I was just like, oh, Carmi is saying one thing and doing another, where he wants to make a restaurant that people can return to and form memories with their family and they can impart this joy. But in actuality, with the bear, he's not creating a restaurant that is like that.

He's not giving people what they want. The people want the sandwiches. And he's just like, no, you got to take my chaos, man. You got to take the dissonance. This is what's really important. And that was so interesting to me in that first scene because I'm like, does Karmie have it within himself to give people what they want, which is the sandwiches and this feeling of this communal place in our city

where I can go for lunch and I can go for dinner and I know what I'm getting every single time. And that's enough. It's such a profound question. but it's a question that the show is going to try to ask because even while we're doing this, we're seeing other people who are maybe moving in a different way. We're seeing Sid, who's getting contacted by her father over and over and over again

and isn't picking up the phone because she's too consumed with what's going on at the bear. It's an interesting question, though. And the reason why I say it's interesting is because two things. I think Carmi and Mike's conversation is about the different ways that they look at it. Both of those things are probably true. One, that restaurant did suck,

but two, their dad was really happy there. Yeah. So what matters more? The quality of the restaurant or how the restaurant makes you feel when you're in there? I mean, I have to ask you this question because it's not something I experienced until I was older

where I remember restaurants I used to go to in my hometown and the way I feel about them when I come back, where you're just like, oh, this fish wasn't as good as like, I've had more. I've had more excellent food. But sometimes when you go back, I'm like, oh, it doesn't matter.

Because the way the place smells, the way it feels, the memories I have. Like, you can't tell me it's a piece of shit. I'm just like, and that's what I'm, what's interesting to me, whereas I'm just like, sometimes for restaurants, it's not always about the food. It's about like when I come back to this diner, when I come back to this whole food place, when I get this burger. Is it how I remembered it when I was here? with everyone in my life.

Yeah, I mean, for me, everything is about that. Like, I remember the best meals I've ever had, but more than those meals, I remember who I was eating with. Yeah. So that's the question that the show is trying to ask, and this was a little bit more carmy-focused in terms. It wasn't necessarily carmy-focused these three episodes,

but he was always looming. all the things that were left unsaid, someone was asking him to say them. Yeah. Everything that was left not litigated, someone was asking him to come to terms with it. And then you get to the third episode, and you get to one of the more moving aspects,

or excuse me, one of the more moving scenes of the show, which is when the staff of the bear goes out of their way to make this one group feel completely awesome. It's a family. where basically Richie is realizing that their surprise budget has been slashed. And they're like, what can we do? And it's this family who I think either has a gift card.

They're really excited. Their daughter is in remission. She hasn't had cancer for a couple months. And they go out of the way to not only make the beef sandwich, which is only allowed or is only served during lunch. They also make this very vivid snow in the middle of summer whenever it is. And to your point, I was just like, oh, this is what happens when Karmie lets go. This is when he lets people like Ritchie and lets people like Ebra and lets the people around him.

Even Sid with the scallop blossom. It's almost weird where it's like the more and more Karmie lets go of the bear, the more it starts succeeding and actually being the thing that he was talking to Mikey about. Certainly because the Michelin Star guy is obviously that guy that. Yeah, Mr. Clark. They don't hide it? I was even looking at just like, is there, I guess there's a Clark Street in Chicago? I looked it up.

And right away, that was the guy, right? That's obviously the guy and he's seeing what they're willing to go through. He's seen that they know the emotion that they want to get from people. Yeah. Which was what they didn't know before. They were trying to be so excellent and so bleeding edge, not even cutting edge. I like saying bleeding edge, but on the camera. That they were missing the thing.

that Karmie and Mike were talking about. Something else that you talked about a little earlier that you brought up is that like, I guess it is true that Karmie doesn't want to serve the beef. I want to ask you something. Serve the beef. I want to ask you something.

Carmi doesn't want to serve the beef. He wants to do something more than the beef. That made me think about Tyler Perry, not about what's in the news now. Okay. It made me think about Tyler Perry because there are two schools of thought. One school of thought, I wrote this piece a long time ago, that I'm sure he never read it, but it was saying that Tyler Perry was giving us fried fish cinema.

Yeah. Meaning that fry fish is easy. It's never going to be too bad. It's if you fry catfish and you season it right, you fry it hard enough, it's good. Right. But inside of him, there's probably a better filmmaker somewhere. Yeah. Because if you can make amazing fried catfish and it's good and it really is a type of

comfort food that people love, at some point, you could probably cobble together some ingredients and push yourself to make something a little bit better. The question is, do you give people what they want or do you stretch the expectation of what it is that they want. Because in that extra 30 or 40% that they have to give is really what life is about, which is unexpected bliss. Yeah. And so when I'm looking at the sandwiches and I'm looking at the bear, it's really to me

about how much Karmie can push people and how much he needs to push people to be able to express himself through his. culinary excellence. So how much is too much? That's so interesting because that's exactly what I was thinking about when I was watching it. But also there's almost this meta, this meta thing running through the season. And I don't know if Christopher Storr intended it this way. But if you look at like the trajectory of the narrative of the bear in terms of like what we're watching on TV over these three, four seasons and then everything happening around the bear, it's like third season.

it's like third season, that's the chaos menu. That's where the first episode of that season, if you remember, was almost a tone poem. It wasn't even that much of a story. It's like we're seeing all these, it's beautifully shot, we're seeing all these memories. We're seeing all this music, blah, blah, blah. And then we're getting stunt castings. We're getting, you know, the ice tips episodes and all these celebrities and everything. It's high-level TV, but almost the audience rejects it in the same way that the Chicago Tribune

rejects the bear. They reject this dissinous. And with this season, I was like, I don't know if this was intentional, but it almost felt like in the same way that Sid's like, we could

still make, maybe it's not high fancy food, but we can still make great food with three or two components versus five. Yeah. You know what I mean? Do you need a chaos menu? Do you need dissinence to be talented? Or can you do do less and give people what they want. And I was just like, I wanted to ask you, do you think that that's something that the creators

were doing intentionally of like, oh, no, now we see what happens when we push the menu too far and how an audience can be like, fuck the bear, fuck this, this isn't what I want? It could be. I think that that's a fantastic point and an awesome perspective. Also, I'll tell you this, the show is funny. These three episodes were funny. They were funny. And that, at points.

Last year, I wondered if the bear was okay being funny. I mean, they did a couple of things that were obviously trying to be funny, like the haunting thing and all of that stuff. But I was wondering if the show was okay with people being comfortable and laughing at it. Yeah. And even in this episode, to your point, I think they probably made peace with the fact that there's a lot of comedic talent out there and the show works best when funny things are happening. Don't get me wrong.

We can do a 21-minute episode. where it is highly intense and Jeremy Allen White looks like he's about to split in half with the amount of pressure that's on him and that's awesome but when he goes to Claire's

house and Ted answers the door it's hysterical and you need a little bit of a laugh before they have that excruciating scene on the front stool. The laugh made me the laugh made that scene easier Yeah, you need a little bit of a laugh.

If she answers the door right then, and then he has to endure that nut kicking, he deserved it, right? He deserved it. But if she answers the door right then, it's like, oh, my God, you want things to go well for Carmen so badly, and look at this, we have to watch this now. But they let you breathe a little bit. They let you breathe a little bit. Ted is hysterical.

And then they get into what has to happen on the stoop, which is she can't just allow him to come back. after months of being absent and go, hey, I love you, everything is okay. Let's just pick back up where we left off. So to your point, I think the show has made a little bit of, well, has made peace with why we actually love it.

Look, it's three episodes in. It's three episodes in. None of what's happening this season could have been done without last season being a little bit of a departure. Yeah. So it was probably necessary. But at the same time, I viewed it, we're only three episodes in, as a return to form, but not just a return to form, but a return to what made me love the show in the first place. Are you looking for support in your weight management journey? Zepbound terseptide may be able to help.

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Exclusion supplies to homebore.com slash price match for details. Jeremy Allen White is doing something that he's so good with, but I think that I've maybe lost a little patience with, which is like, yo, Karmie is, he sulks. And you see everybody around him being like, damn, this motherfucker's sulking again. And then Richie is just like, is this performative?

And I'm like, oh, this is a TV show laughing at itself. And I was just like, it was that moment where I'm like, oh, okay, at least I think it's complicated when he called, when Carmie calls Pete to be like, yo, change the contract. I'm like, oh, he might go back. He might, he's on the cigarettes again. He might go back. But there was that moment where I'm like, oh, the show knows that this can feel a little bit too much. What do you think that call was about? So I think that.

when, because it's interesting. Also, this season is very much the symbolism is they're hitting you over the head with it. I think the cigarette and how much Karmie wants a cigarette obviously is like, am I going to go back to my always? Am I going to go back to my always? And I think when he touches the freezer handle and decides I need to go apologize to Claire, I think that that's the moment where he's just like, I'm giving myself over to this process. I'm trying to be a better person.

And then I think something that happens in life all the time when Claire rejects that moment almost and not fully but it's just like you just can't worm yourself weight yourself back into my life. I think he makes that call to be like what's the first thing he says to Pete? It's not he's like, yo, shut up, shut up. Just change the thing.

I think that's him being like this isn't y'all's anymore, this isn't SIDS anymore, this is my doubt. All right. I might be wrong, but I think they gave us three episodes of thinking that Karmie has changed. And I think Karmie does something that's very, very human, which is just like the moment you don't get what you want

after you're trying to make this big life altering, like, I'm going to be better. I'm going to be nice and all my family and all my friends and I'm going to be there. The moment when she doesn't go your way, how many people in our lives do we know where they're just like, fuck it. Well, yeah, because you start to think better will happen

when I start to do better. And if it doesn't, you can sometimes get a little play or feel a little play, should I say. I, just so everyone knows, we have screeners. Okay? We have screeners of the show. I'm saying that because it's very important

for me to share this with people. I could have very easily watched Forward before we did this podcast today. I wanted to watch Forward. I did too. I almost did. But I didn't. And I didn't.

because I was so wound up in the narrative of the show that I wanted to talk to you and maintain the anticipation of what's going to happen next before we podcast. And that told me that the drama is unfolding in the way... I didn't feel that way last season as much of like the very sitcom but dramatic elements of it made me...

were the thrust of like... I want to see if Karmie can stay on the mend. I want to stay at this heightened level of himself. Richie, I want to, is Richie going to go to the wedding? Yeah. Is Richie going to, when Richie was watching the Ridley Scott fucking video. Yeah. I was like, that's compelling to, it's compelling.

That's funny. It's funny. It's like, can he be a leader when he's going back? Seeing Richie and Sid where Sid stabbed him at the end of the first season. and now to see their relationship being like, hey, is this good? Is this speech? Like that to me, I was like, oh, this was always the show.

And maybe they got a little bit too away from it. But I was enthralled. I thought that this had such a momentum to it. Yeah, it had an absolute momentum to it. There was, they didn't waste any scenes. I thought they wasted some scenes last year. They didn't waste any scenes. Even the, the fat in there is,

something that gives the rest of the entire show flavor. Even the scenes where sugar is in there, she's not at the restaurant. She's taking care of her baby. All of those scenes matter. Everything with Sid's dad matters. With everyone's individual journey, which we got back to people's individual journeys and how they have to push themselves, right? Right? Because you started to ask yourself at some point, this is a workplace situation comedy to a degree. It's an elevated version of that. By the way, this elevated version of shit, that's very hit or miss. I go back to New Orleans now. I've been back to New Orleans more this year. Back to New Orleans, to New Orleans. I'm from Baton Rouge.

been to New Orleans more this year than I have been in past years, right? I've been four times back to Louisiana, right? And sometimes elevated is not better. It's not. When I go to New Orleans, you know, this place, different restaurants, it's all of this fine dining.

You go there and they want to give you a frog leg, poboy with this different type of stuff and you're like, okay, you know, you fucking go to. dragos, you go to landrys, you go to different places, even Acme Oyshar House, which is for tourists. Some of these places are tourists, but like mothers, will it amaze. All of these places, when I want to feel the city, that's where I go. I don't need it, elevate it.

You know, there's some new places that they have now, they're morals and all of that stuff that are making really good food, but I want it to be not elevated. I want it to be authentic. I want it to be authentic. Elevated don't matter. Don't put no quinoa in the gumbo. Wait, who's putting quinoa in gumbo? It's the whole thing.

Wait, is this an actual thing that's happening? Yeah, they put the guy kingwa. Why? Because maybe some people don't want the rice. They want the gumbo, but they want a little quinoa. Why? I mean, like, you know, so, so I'm saying it doesn't have to be elevated. But it can still be authentic and it can be moving.

Moving is what you want. The show got back to that. It, it. This was not as ambitious as last season was, not by any stretch of the imagination. But it was incredibly grounded and moving. Before we get off that, I want to ask you, though, because I feel like this is stuff that we talk about on The Midnight Boys,

where it's not just superhero content. It's, to me, it feels like movies, TV, food, just culture, where it seems like we're moving out of that moment, where for so long it felt like elevated, We want things to be different. We want it to be the best. We want our food to be Michelin Star. We want our movies to be fucking, we need Atlanta.

We need this. We need that. We need prestige. And it feels like this show, but also the moment that we're in is people being like, can you just make stuff simple again? Can you just make, can you make something hearty and rich? Like, that's what it feels like Superman is pitching us on. Fantastic Four is pitching us on.

It's just like, no, we gave y'all the world. Can we make you believe in something that's a little bit smaller, a little bit more heartwarming, a little bit that sticks to the ribs? Yeah. And living in a time where so much has already been seen, you know, we've seen it all, we've done it all, we've watched it all, we've heard it all.

At least that's where it feels sometimes. The question is, at what point do you lose the momentum? him or do you lose or does your ambition kind of choke you? I'll say this. Familiar. Superman is supposed to be a familiar character. He's supposed to look at Superman and go, hey, I know him. That's like a nice guy with powers.

But if he comes around and it's like, let's make a mad, Superman, he's mad, he's sad. You know, he's like, Karmie, and he's flying around. People are going to be like, I don't kind of understand that, right? Or it works for a while. We want to see Homelander for a while until all versions of Superman are just Homelander. Right. And with this, I kind of feel the same. You can push things forward.

You can try different things. The storytelling in The Bear was never conventional. It's never been conventional storytelling. And this storytelling in this season isn't conventional. But they've gotten back to the familiarity of the show that we had in the first season of it. So now we understand what we're being asked as an audience.

Because sometimes it would be like, what is this? Like, what am I supposed to feel? Like, who's, and you can do that, but you can lose yourself doing it. You can put too many components on the plate easily. Atlanta, you mentioned Atlanta. The thing that worked about Atlanta

was for as avant-garde as Atlanta was, it was very familiar. Donald Glover did something. so amazing with that show to where for black audiences, and that's a black show. It's a black show. A lot of times people act like black audiences can't handle stuff that is too artistic,

that we're not, that we don't like that. And they go back to Tyler Perry, they say, this is what you like. No, he grounded it in something that's very familiar to us, characters that we know, people that we know, situations that we understood. And then once you have that buy-in from your audience, once you have that seal of approval from your audience, you can take them niggas to space if you want. Like you can.

And so that's the thing with the bear. The feeling of inadequacy, the feeling of your best laid plans not quite working. how do I achieve greatness? Is it worth it? Will I find love? Comaery in the face of overwhelming odds against you. They never get comfortable in this restaurant. This restaurant is an uncomfortable place.

Behind the scenes. When they take us to the front of the house, nobody in the front of the house knows what's going on back there. That's the entry that keeps the show going. And so I think that when I watched it, I was wondering if the bear was going to be able to kind of bring me back into this world and make me like really comfortable or really uncomfortable sitting there. And they were able to do it.

I mean, even talking about kind of Tyler Perry, Donald Glover, Sid's journey to me in this was super interesting. Super interesting. Because she's obviously the heartbeat of this place. This is now, I think, like the second or third time where someone has come into the restaurant and been like, has tasted what she's put on the plate and being like, that's excellent. But what's fascinating as she's becoming more successful, as her talent is getting recognized, you already brought it up.

She's answering the phone for her father less. You know what I mean? And I was just like... Is she becoming Karmie? Well, if you think about it, Karmie started this restaurant running away from the land of Mishlin Stars. The way him is. Sid connected was

Michelin Stars aren't important. Like they've lost the plot. We want to make a place that people will love to come to. And now the irony is the only thing that's going to keep them afloat is chasing the Michelin Star. And I see,

to your point, Sid almost maybe not emotionally in terms of how she's treating people becoming Karmie, but almost getting lost in the, getting lost in like the maw of like

culinary excellence a little bit, where she seems a little drift where she can go with Shapiro, she can stay where she's at. But is this really the cooking that like she wanted to do when we met her in season one? I don't think it is. Maybe not. And also she also is,

she's okay with telling everybody their truth, but she doesn't seem to be very okay with accepting hers. that she's, and it's so interesting for this character to be a black woman because she's essentially a caretaker. Yeah. And if you don't like me talking about black women in terms of being caretakers or feeling like they have to be caretakers, but I'm going to give my sisters the credit they deserve.

And you're very, very rarely going to meet a black lady who doesn't feel like it's their job to take care of you or to tell you how you should be moving if they see you off course or off code a little bit. Or seeing a black woman who almost the structure of the world and their workplace or whoever, like I've been a place where I'm just like, damn, y'all turn to like our mom.

Right, right. And so in that sense she's doing that now, but there's life for her there. There's dad. There's opportunity. There's all kinds of stuff. Like we didn't see very much of her outside of her functioning as the rudder of the bear in these three episodes. And there's going to have to be something.

And maybe it'll be the phone call that Carmi made at the end of episode three. There's going to have to be something that kind of makes her think more directly about herself in the next batch of episodes. Well, what I think is interesting, too, is that sugar, there's this very important call that sugar gives to Karmie when he realizes he hasn't met his niece yet. Where she's just like, I saw how you were when you were leaving this place to go chase your culinary dreams and how much you loved it and how much the food he loved you. And she's like, it's okay if you've fallen out of love with this. And me, I thought in the third episode, when he hops out of the train and he'd go, like he's running. I'm just like, oh, he's going to go back to the kitchen.

He found his love for it. He needs to cook right now. And he doesn't. He ends up at Clares. And the reason I bring this up in terms of Sid is I'm like, oh, this is what the world does to you when you're talented, where you start on a journey where Sid is in love with the food. Critics are tasting it. They're just like, she is reaching the height of her power.

And you see the bear and the culinary world grinding her down. And that's what's interesting to me, which is. is just like, can you exist in a workplace, is being talented enough, is love enough? And a lot of times, like, I've learned this especially where I'm like, most of the time it is not. The thing that, like, you get into the industry for that you love will be, it's just the daily just like, I got to wake up, people are counting on me,

I need insurance. And I'm like, oh, can Sid maneuver past that? Yeah. Will the love be enough for her? Interesting that we watch this. during this time, because I've been on a Bobby Fisher kick. Yeah.

In the Bobby Fisher documentary, which is fantastic. Something was said about Bobby Fisher. And it was like, listen, Bobby Fisher was like a real genius. His father was like a fantastic genius of some place. His mother was too. He was a very smart family, very smart guy. He had talent to be able to do the things he did.

But he also played a lot of chess. and if you are going to be as great as he was at what he did, it can't be dutiful. It has to be the thing that you live and breathe for. It can't be dutiful. And we all know that, right? There's very few people that are as good as Michael Jordan at something and go, ah, you know,

I was doing it to pay the bills. Very few people. but cooking is different in that it's really a competition between you and yourself that you are pushing yourself and then somebody else gets to decide how that stuff makes you feel and how good you are at it. The show has made me understand just what a lyrical, and emotional and romantic thing preparing a meal for somebody is

and how much of yourself that you put into that. Yeah. And then you give it away. And then someone gets to decide whether or not anything that you did was worth it. In chess, you go out, you win. In basketball, you go out, you win. Even if you're Steve Jobs,

you achieve this technological goal. Now, people don't like it, people don't like it, but if you're able to do what you said you were going to do, that goes a very long way. But these people have to be, like, in my opinion, at least, they have to be wired in a certain way. This has to be both the most important thing in the world to them and something that they can let go,

something that they can give to somebody and let go. And the entire show, at least these episodes, is about who's holding on and, like, who's letting go, even rich, all of this stuff. Like, what is worth holding on? to the house that they're trying to sell. Is it, Rosa, holding on to your family? It's like holding on and letting go.

Everybody's trying to serve their own different meal in a way. And food is, it's funny, food is one of those things where it's like, for car me, I can serve you the thing that is actually, like, technically, everything on this plate has been cooked to perfection. And you should love this because this is the highest form of culinary arts. And then you could put the Italian beef in front of someone and they'll be like, I want another one of those. And I think that's the thing that frustrates Karmie is that the thing he's running away from

is that you always had the food right there. The food that this place, your hometown, Chicago wanted, has been around for decades at this point. And you're trying to give them something that they're like, it's good. You're trying to give them yourself. And they're like, no. Right. So what do you do? Like, what do you do?

Do you find yourself with Claire? Do you find yourself in being an uncle? Your brother's gone. Your brother passed away, which is the exciting, the inciting incident for all of this. The inciting incident for all of this is you feeling connected enough to your family that you want to come back and fulfill promise. and fill emotional holes that your brother left. Yeah.

But then at the same time, your niece is born, and you don't go to say hello to her. It's this profound story, or this profound idea, should I say, about what you should be doing in life and how grief and inadequacy and excellence are all kind of the same thing. Yeah, and I mean, I think that these three episodes

did a good job of really painting, like, I think what's scaring Karmie, the reason why he broke up with Claire, the reason why he hasn't met his niece, the reason why he's imploding is that, like, Karmie's making room or is trying to make room to love other people and to put people before the food.

Food used to be the thing, food was the thing that saved him. Food is how we got out of Chicago. Food is how he didn't become his brother. food is this thing that put him on this global stage. And sugar realizing, maybe you're not in love with it. Maybe you are in love with Claire more. Maybe you do want to be here for your niece more. Maybe you do want to be here for Richie Moore.

And it might not be the food that's going to fulfill you. That is like a very profound thing because I'm like, as you get older and you start seeing people, you're just like, oh, they became a father or a mother. And they made a very, I see it. They make a very specific like, I'm pouring my love into this child. I'm not doing, like, my career is taking a backseat. Everything else is taking a back seat for people and community, not necessarily the art, you know? I'm going to go back to the first scene between him and Mikey again.

Something that stuck out of me about the scene. So what is he cooking in the scene? Tomato. The spaghetti sauce. The gravy. The gravy. You watch, I might get that shit tonight. You watch Goodfellas and everybody's, you know, making the gravy.

Whenever you watch a movie about Italian people, unfortunately, I'm sorry to my Italian people out there, they always got you out making some kind of gravy. Y'all, they got y'all got y'all making the good fellas. Let me come over here and tell you how to make this. This is what you do. Boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom. And it's in The Godfather. Let me tell you what you do.

You put this, you put this, you put that. You shave the garland. Shave the garland. You do the whole thing. but that has to be cooked with tomatoes, with garlic, with all of that stuff, but it has to be also cooked with love. Yeah.

And in that scene, Carmi is not paying attention to the sauce. Yep. Mikey is. Mikey's saying, you're adding too much garlic. Mikey's saying it's sticking. I can hear it.

And then there's a point where Carmi is so, busy talking about how much his father loved this restaurant that he's not pouring love into the sauce. He stopped stirring it at all because he's seeking something and not paying attention to what needs love from him and care from him that's right in front of him. Now, he obviously doesn't do that when he cooks. He doesn't. He doesn't do that when he cooks. When he cooks, he normally puts all of his focus into the meal, all of his ambition into the meal. He puts all of his creativity into the meal.

But are we getting to the point to where Karmie is going to learn how to put love into the meal? When my mama be cooking, my mama be in there and she'll be making the rue for the gumbo, and it takes a long time. It's not easy to. to make. Whenever somebody made a good gumbo for you, just kiss them and hug them real tight, because you got to make that rule. You got to stir that down. You got to be there on top of it.

Like, it's not easy to make, but she wants you to love it so much. My mother loves you so much, and she wants you to love the gumbo so much that she's right there. And it's everything that's in her. If you try to get her off her mission, she will curse you out. I'm making my rule. And here. Get out of here. Get back. But that feeling of like when my uncle or my nana would be done with the food, they'd be exhausted. But when they sit down and they see everybody eating, like there's just this smile. There's this bliss of just like, oh, it was fucking work. Like they're tired, their back hurts, whatever. But you can like, oh, like they're really quiet. They're just like, oh, I did it. And to your point, I think what's interesting is just not the food. He has to pay

attention and put love it to like, Iber is like, essentially you almost threw me away. Like, You thought culinary. Like, it's so funny that Eva, the person who was, like, feeling like, the most pushed out by this new bear is the one who's keeping it afloat financially. Yeah. You're just like, oh, this was, this is the guy who you're just like, oh, and Carmie, you feel, like, Jeremy Allen White does such a good job where he's like, oh, like, oh, like, you realize, like, I almost fucked up. Yeah. Good to see Rob Reiner coming in and throwing heat as well. Yeah.

Yeah. Rob Reiner came in as Rob Reiner's like, look, looking spry. I like that shit, man. Rob Reiner is a staple. Looking spry coming in. It's, look, for me, the show asks so many questions. I love stuff about chefs. Yeah.

We've talked about it before, but it's feeding someone and wanting to feed people and wanting to do it in an artistic, like blissfully creative way is such an inherently interesting endeavor. Because you're not going to get rewarded. And it's like, this is also doing, like, the bear has constantly been like, it's hard to run a restaurant.

You're probably not going to get rich. You're dealing with fucking critics, assholes. And you're just like, and you're realizing when they're making it's like, damn, but these people love us so much, that doesn't, it doesn't matter. But my, the last question. I have for you before we get out of here is I think before this season, I think it was expected

that this was going to be the final season. Yeah. They are not promoting it like it's the final season. I think there was kind of like an interesting back and forth where it seemed like this, the bear was originally only supposed to be three seasons. And then I think FX kind of was just like, come on, we need a four season. do you think there's more meat on the bone? Because I think you were the first person with Shogun

to be like, no, they're making more of this. And it very much felt like they're making more. Well, it all depends. Shogun was just like a business because Shogun ran out of story. There ain't no more story to Shogh. But Shogun, they were going to bring it back just because it was so commercially and critically acclaimed.

This is different. If I had this type of show, I would never fully let it go. Now, I don't know how long it takes to shoot the bear. I don't know what kind of commitment it is from the cast and from the writing team. But if I had this type of show, particularly a show that's like a half hour

and moves like this, I wouldn't let it go because you have seen this. People are in the stratosphere. We got Ben Grimm on this show. We got the first. Bruce Springsteen. We got Bruce Springsteen. racing on this show.

You got literally Ayo Debris, any single time there's a black actress are like, hey, yo, what's IOT? Yeah, everything. And everything. If these people's movies careers, movie careers keep going

the way that they're going, they're just not going to have time for the show. But actually, the reason why I think it might be different is like, I think that that was true. And I think the industry is in such a fucking

topsy-turvy place. I agree with you. I wouldn't be surprised if all of these people, even though they are gigantic, everybody on this is in the strategy. They're like, money-wise, we can come back to the bear.

Like, you can come back to the bear, and it's a story that we care about. It's not like, I can't speak like I know what kind of heavy lift the show is, because I'm not all on set with them. But I think the bear should last as long as they're restored. And this was the first three episodes.

We have to see the rest of the season. I was just like, oh, there does seem to be more story to be told. And it's like, I do think this is this type of show where I was just looking at the credits. The fourth episode is directed by I.O. and, um, fucking Lionel Boyce. So I even think some of them are using this as a chance where I was just like, I don't just want to be an actress.

I want to direct. And she could go to Christopher Store and be like, hey, yo, like, let me get behind the chair. I do think that there are all of these people are probably like, hey, shit, man, doing 10 episodes a year every year. Right. Hey, really. It's not going to be Always Sunny

and be on for like Always Sunny was on when I was still living. Shout out to the cast of Always Sunny, man. Yeah, man. Always Sunny was on

when I was living with my boys Dan and Brett. Pico and Fairfax back in the day. I was in middle school. I'm 32 now. And Always Sunny was on

and they were like, this show is the funniest fuck. I'm like, what is this fucking shit? And you go down and pound for pound that show my, it's one of the,

funny shows of all time. But it's like hysterical. But what did they learn on Always Sunny? I think they learned where it's like all of that,

Rob McEllney is popping now. Like all of them. All of them are popping. But I think they learn the stuff that like fucking Larry David learned with curb

where it's like you never really tell people is done. Right. Because like sometimes when shit gets a little just come back to you. Just come back

and everybody's like our friends are back. But I'll say this. First three episodes of this show, fantastic. Fantastic. I'm really in love.

Really in love with what they're doing. Was great. Moves very fast. Moves very fast. Yes, that's what I enjoyed. I'm like, damn. Moves very fast. Don't check your text messages.

Watch everything. All the music cues are right there. First three episodes. Fantastic. We're back. I love them. We're back. We're back.

But guys, we're going to be on the prestige TV feed, YouTube, Spotify, whatever. Rest of the season, make sure you tap in. Thank you to my man Van Lathen. Thank you to CET behind the boards. Thank you to Justin Sales, the person who's managing and running all of prestige. And we'll be back soon. This episode is brought to you by Netflix's remarkably bright creatures.

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