The Prestige TV Podcast - ‘The Bear’ Season 4, Episodes 7-9: Breaking Down the Wedding Episode

Episode Date: June 27, 2025

Van and Charles keep it in the family to recap the seventh, eight, and ninth episodes of ‘The Bear’ Season 4. (0:00) Intro (3:26) Why “Bears” was such a refreshing episode (16:46) Ayo is this season’s MVP (20:28) Is Carmy passing the torch? (30:18) Chef Adam’s true intentions (50:32) Season (or series?) finale predictions Email us! [e-mail] Subscribe to the Ringer TV YouTube channel here for full episodes of ‘The Prestige TV Podcast’ and so much more! Hosts: Van Lathan and Charles Holmes Producers: Kai Grady and Donnie Beacham Jr. Video supervision: Chris Thomas Additional Production Support: Justin Sayles Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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visit your local deli today discover the craftsmanship behind every bite boar's head committed to craft since 1905 welcome to the prestige tv podcast we are back to discuss the pen ultimate episodes of the bear season four i'm charles holmes he's van lathen together we're known as the midnight boys at van it came faster than i than i would have predicted we finally got the wedding episode all right Dad. You were fucking reading the fucking Midnight Boys. Read it. Now you got you in the zone. Okay, I'm fine.

This is not the Midnight Boys. It's fine. It's called the PresbyCV podcast. We have to be adults here. This is the house that sells and Joanna and Rob. Rob. Bill. We have to be... Oh, and CR. NCR. Okay. We have to be adults. Before we get into the episode, let's do a little

housekeeping and then let's do a little bit of a background in plot action. Okay. So housekeeping. Guys, you need to stay tuned to the fucking ringer. Higher learning is on Mondays and Thursdays. Tuesdays and Thursdays. Tuesdays and Thursdays twice a week. Midnight boys, Wednesday, but we're dropping some shit.

We're dropping some midnight courts. We're dropping some drafts. Superman, Fantastic Ford, Jurassic Park, Ironheart, fucking tune in. If you want some Squid game season three coverage, don't come here. Go straight to House of Ar. All right. Now, background for this episode. Today we're covering episode seven through nine, Bears, Green, and Tenado.

last three episodes of the season directed by Christopher Storer, Joanna Callow writes episode seven, while Callow and Stores share writing credits on 8 and 9. So, we finally get our wedding episode. Richie realizes Frank is just as nervous as he is about fatherhood and life as they both struggle to get young Eva out from under the table. Carmi reunites with his mother for the first time, and after suffering a mild panic attack, shares a heart to heart with his Uncle Lee played by Bob Odinkirk. Uncle Lee tells Carmi that Michael was proud of him and that he shouldn't feel guilty

for leaving Chicago by episodes end. Cini and Donna Bond, Carmi and Claire, kind of their romance and Natalie finally forgives Nancy. Back at the bear, the team is working until the deadline to ensure that the kitchen is safe, but the computer reveals to Natalie that Uncle Jimmy is pulling the plug on funding the operation and questions if Carm and her can afford to keep this place running on such short margins. Meanwhile, Carm evis his mother and finally makes peace with her. We fast forward and were left with some big surprises. Albert arrives just in time to pitch Ebro and the Beef Gang on an idea for expanding that operation across Chicago. Marcus is

name one of the best new chefs by food and wine. And Pete finally explains to Sid that Karmie is potentially leaving the bear to her and Natalie. You, when we were off-bike, you said something that I had this same thought. Our predictions were fucking wrong. If you're tuning in to the podcast

to listen to Chuck and Van predict the plot of the bear, then you're listening to the wrong podcast. I think on the last batch, on the last episode, with the last match, I think that I said

that Sid would leave and take the job. She didn't. I think that I said that Luca would step in for Sid. That didn't happen. I think that I said that the wedding

would be the last episode. It was, in fact, the next episode. So, so many things. And by the way, it just tells you guys we're not watching ahead. We're watching.

We're watching. But I think what is, what is, it also says, is that this season has done a good job of subverting my expectations.

I feel like I'm ahead of the show and I know where it's going. I know where it's going. And we'll talk about it a little later, even the wedding episode. I was a little bit like, oh, this is not how I thought, this is not how a typical hour long episode

of the bear with all the Bearsados happens. Yeah, let's start right there. I mean, this is obviously a spiritual successor to fishes. Right. And you expected to get the same breakneck pacing, intensity, particularly when Brie Larson pops up that you got in Fish's.

But what you got was an episode that was excellent, but a really sweet, emotional, funny, deep dive into the Brazado family, even more so than Fishers was a deep dive into their family. I mean, the reason I enjoyed

this episode was because it does that wonderful thing where the characters are experiencing what the audience is feeling, where they're all before the wedding is starting, Ritchie's like throwing up, he's puking, like Karmie's almost having a panic attack. They're all like,

we know what happens when you get all of us in one room. And then the episode opens up like this beautiful flower, and you realize, I think the spine of this entire season are these various characters breaking patterns? They even say, I think Uncle Lee played by Bob Odenk says it. He's basically just like the best way to break a pattern is to break patterns. Yeah.

And it was like I wasn't expecting it, but it was almost beautiful to see these characters in a moment where they're finally like, I can do better. I can be better. Absolutely. Everybody got to play a home game and everybody got to play an away game. Everybody had the conversation that they needed to have and then they had some that they didn't. Sugar is my favorite character this season. She's so hilarious.

When she sees Franny Fack and she goes, and then they start their whole thing, that being the comedic B plot that was going on, these two bombastic characters. When Pete, the Pete, look at Pete's face, when the facts are just like, yeah, they hooked up. He's like, I was dying. By the way, did we ever actually find out what happened with them?

No. We, we, they don't tell us if it had something to do with whatever encounter they had or if it was something else. But we still kind of don't know exactly what happened between Sugar and Franny Fack. But that's what I loved. I loved that comedically where it was just like, oh, we didn't matter. And even, I'll be honest, we were so critical last season. And a lot of people with just the like, it was like a fucking DJ Calid album with the, just the people fucking coming in

out of the woodworks, I thought Breed Larson was really good. Oh, she worked. I thought she fit in perfectly. She got the humor. I was just like, oh, this is amazing. But I also,

it was, I thought everybody did a phenomenal job. I think Odenkirk and, and the scene with him and Karmie was really, really fucking good. Of all of the conversations

that we have here, right, there's so many things here are in this episode that come to a head. Yeah. Yeah, Richie and Frank. Sid and Donna. Sid and Donna. Carmi and Claire to a degree.

Not really, but it's the beginning. But it's the beginning of it. Which one do you think was the one that the episode centered around? Which conversation in the episode had to happen? I think there's two. And I'm cheating. I think it's Carmian Uncle Lee.

And I think it's Donna and Sid. Because with Donna and Sid, I was just like, oh, this is the moment when she chooses the bear. Yeah. Like this was the conversation she needed to have in terms of just like, why am I staying here? And then the realization that these people are my family, that I think all this season, like, Sid is having like a lot of these logical arguments about why going what Shapiro was

better. and Donna weirdly is the, because I was like, oh, this was the first time I was like, oh,

I didn't realize that the show was kind of telling us that Sid and Donna operated similarly in the restaurant where Donna was like when it was the beef,

I was the person that came in and they were my family and did it did a dot. And I was just like, oh, the show is always drawing a line

between Donna and Carmi. I didn't, like her being the character to, like Jamie LeCourst did an amazing job. to be like Sid, like, you love these people. Right.

It was incredible. I think it's Donna and Sid, and I'll tell you why. Because two things happen there. Number one, we tie a bow on Sid's aspirations outside of the bear. Very important. Number two, that scene is an appetizer for Karmie and his mother reconciling. Yeah. That has to happen.

He sort of. you know, avoids her as much as he possibly can. She's looming around. But really, as she sits down and talks to Sid, we get an understanding

of how the character has deepened. Yeah. Because one great thing that the bear is able to do is to create such anxiety around two characters meeting. You know, there's anxiety when a character has a gun

on another character. There's we wouldn't saw Jurassic a world rebirth. And there's a scene. I'm not going to ruin it or spoil anything. But there's a scene where one character is in the foreground and something's happening in the background.

And there's a tremendous amount of anxiety with that, but those are fucking dinosaurs to be able to create this much uncomfortability or anticipation around a conversation the two characters are going to have that's not life and death but feels more like death and life than life and death. The show does such a great job of that. And in this particular one, I'm like, okay, Donna's back in now.

It's okay to feel something for Donna. She mothered a little bit. And I had never seen her do that. Yeah. In the show, I had never seen her like be. a mom. And the first time I saw her like be a mom was with when she was talking to Sid. And Carmen needs his mom right now. I mean, and I think what's beautiful is that this show, even though it is so centered on an Italian family, what I think they locate when you come from a large family is whenever

there's a gathering. I've experienced this every single time I go home, every single Christmas, Thanksgiving, whatever it be, where the beefs that are happening around the party or the gathering, everybody like knows the backstory or knows little bits. But like depending upon your relationship to the story, it's just kind of like, oh, they're just fighting. Like our cousins are fighting. The sisters are fighting. The brothers are fighting.

And even the trio of our three leads, Richie, Karmie, Sid, them all kind of realizing at the same time that they're all feeling the same emotion, that they're all nervous, that they're all afraid, that they're all fighting for something in different ways. Even, it was very on the nose,

but by the end, I even thought Ava hiding under the table and all the people coming under, I was like, oh, this is a little corny, but by the end I was like, oh, this is so sweet. Like, this is so... Well, yeah, the Ava thing was interesting

because it was a situation that those two guys weren't going to be able to figure out. Yeah. And it kind of underscores. Everybody gets under the table. They all talk about what they're afraid of, right? The only thing that can make

all of those people come together and hook together like that is somebody that hasn't been initiated into their trauma yet. Yeah. Gotta be a little kid. Everybody going to rally around and protect the little kid, right?

So if it's about getting her out from under that table and maybe helping her find her dancing shoes or her dancing spirit or whatever, everyone would do that. There's not one other thing that would have happened at that wedding that they all would have got around that could have gotten them all under that table like that. A little hokey, yeah.

But that took the pressure off Richie, who I really, really, really, really identified with in this episode. Richie was just... Richie is just, he's trying to be a dad. And normally being a good dad, it's about letting go, but it's not about letting go so somebody else can fill in. So he has to believe that his daughter's heart is big enough to love.

only her father, but the guy who's going to be there as her stepdad, he has to trust a kid, and that's difficult to do. And it's not just that. It was like there was this one moment where Uncle Jimmy goes over to Richie, and he's just like, he's looking at, he's like, Claire's gorgeous, Tiff, he's looking beautiful, you two fucked up. And the look on Richie on Eminemann's background's face is just like, because I've been in those situations where like you're friends with a dude and he's,

his ex is like happy with someone who's better. And like, hey, if you love her, you got to like, you got to be happy for her. You got to be happy for the daughter. I've had to have that talk with my friends with kids being like, yo. You fucked up. Yeah. You kind of have to eat your.

And to, for Richie to be graceful in that and to try to help frank through that was almost, I was just like, oh, we're seeing a side of him that he's been fighting against this entire series. As this functions as a sequel to Fishy's, John Mullaney is back. Yep. And he's been in, I think, a couple of them. Paulson's back. She doesn't say for a very long time. She does her thing.

She kind of gets out of the episode. But when you see the extended family of them and you see people who are just used to it. Yeah. That they've been through so much. Like, Malini's character in this is very important because he likes it. He's in the family. And whereas a lot of people go, wow, these jokers are too much for me. He's no, he likes it.

He's there for it. He gets it. He understands it. And he helps kind of Sid get her bearings around what's going to happen because really, Sid is him. Sid is him. See it? Everybody else is kind of around in the orbit of whatever.

Even Frank, the guy who Richie's ex-wife is marrying seems to be a part of their extended circle in some way. Yeah, because he has this running bit with Marcus's best friend who sold his house, right? Yeah. Like she worked and that guy seems like he knows the facts. Or it's just like, to your point, I think also what this introduced to me is, I'm like, oh, like Claire is actually ingrained.

And she knows the Bears Atoes. And even Tiff is like, I thought, because I was like, wait, Tiff's not related to them. And then she's like, yeah, only the bears showed up. My own family did it. And I was like, oh, the Bearsados, their family structure mirrors the bear in a way. Where they're, no matter how toxic they are, they're very good at adopting people into the larger family and taking care of them. And they have so much love. And to your point, Malaney and Claire seem very much like.

there's just the bears yeah i mean Claire Claire and carmy almost seem like an arranged marriage yes it almost seems like

they are two people that in this entire group were fell in love but also our designated partners for everyone that's why when you're trying to get at carmy

you know you're fucking up with Claire you're fucking up with Claire and that's something that they used to kind of pull him or rein him back in should I say yeah

but watching Sid be in that situation with the wedding, with everything on 12, everything turned up as much as it can be turned up, and then still made the decision that now this is kind of her family? She's talking to Donna and says, hey, like your work family can be

just like your real family. She says, no, it's like it's just family. Yeah. It's just family. And then she makes that decision not to stay at the, a bear, but she kind of makes a decision to become a bear's auto in a way. Yep.

I mean, and I will say if we stay on I-O, she's been phenomenal through this entire series. I have been blown away with what this season has, like, asked her to do. Yeah, for sure. And how she's risen to the occasion in terms of, like, having the episode when her dad has a heart attack, she's crying and she's breaking down. And then this episode where she has to be almost soft and initiated into this family and talk to Donna. and she's dancing with Richie.

And even when she's becoming more of a leader in the next couple of episodes, I'm like, it's weird. But the greatest thing about watching TV is seeing young actors who kind of made their big break on a show get to do this and get to like level up to, I was just like, oh, because if we kind of flash forward, I was wondering, I was like, is there a version of this show where Iyo is more of the lead than Jeremy Allen White

because we end the penultimate ninth episode correct me if I'm wrong. My understanding with that is that Karmie is essentially said I'm no longer in the kitchen, I'm no longer even a part of the bear, the only people who are part of the ownership group now

are Natalie and Sid. And then obviously Jimmy, it seemed like that was Karmie's way of saying I'm stepping back from cooking. Like did I misinterpret? I'm not sure yet. I really don't know. Carmis' quest in this season is not professional at all.

No. Which... He seems on a parallel path to those stuff happen. He's rarely in the kitchen in the season. Carmi's deal is not professional. It is so subtle how they have switched places when last season seemed to to be all about everybody's personal growth and, like, personally, what they were going through,

you know, kind of oriented around what was happening at the bear, you know? And Karmie was just tunnel vision, tunnel vision, tunnel vision. One thing, chef, cook, restaurant. And now when you think about it, you don't see him cooking very much in this. you see him diversifying his humanity and you see everybody else

kind of locking in on what has to work for the restaurant to work. Not overly locking in, not getting crazy like he gets crazy, but it's weird. Between Carmine and Sid, it's like he almost became D-Wade in the heat championship years.

Yeah. Like D-Way went out, won a finals MVP, got a fourth, got Shaq a fourth ring, got his first ring, hey, I can be the man at whatever point. But then it was like, it got to a point where DeWay, he's the average 30 due to the whole nine. Then LeBron comes and DeWay goes,

I can win a championship averaging 22 points a game, 21 points a game. I don't have to get 26, I don't have to get 28, I'll have to get 30. Like, I can be a part of an ensemble and rise to new heights. Now, I'm not saying that Cid is coming in like LeBron. What I'm saying is like, Jeremy Allen White is getting his D-weight on a little bit. Well, but I think that that,

what's interesting is that's made the bear more successful. The more Karmie has been like, I'm trusting Sid to take over more. I'm trusting Richie in the front of the house. I'm trusting like, I'm putting Lucas next to Luca, they're good. Like, I think it's actually, when you think about why Karmie started the bear, this was a promise that he made,

one of the last promises that he made to his brother, that they were going to open up this restaurant, the bear, and all the seas of people were like, what are you chasing? Why are you chasing? What are you chasing? And then sugar is just like,

hey, if you've fallen out of cooking, you don't have to be, like, you don't have to be in love with this thing. Yeah. And have we been on this trajectory where I'm like,

is Karmie's ultimate salvation realizing that Sid has it? Like, like passing along this to this woman who like actually doing something better than Shapiro. Shapiro was pitching her on, you're going to be my partner. I think Carmie's pitching on

you don't need me anymore. This is yours. So we have to talk about Shapiro in the second, too. But I think that Carmi and the audience through him are supposed to get an idea of what it means the difference between being

obsessed and being invested. Yeah. You can be obsessed, and sometimes that feels like you're super invested. But it's blinding. You're obsessed with something. You're obsessed with it. All great people that I look at their greatness all have to learn the lesson of what it means to be obsessed and what it means to be invested. If you're obsessed, it's like, got to do this, got to do this, but it's a very singular thing.

Yeah. It's your relationship with whatever that thing that you're obsessed with. And obsession is normally about seeing you grow. And sometimes what you think is, if I'm as good as possible at what I'm doing, everything else will be better. Being invested in something is different because when you're invested into it, you want to see it grow. And you want to see the people around that grow.

Like if you're invested into your team, then you want everybody to be better, not just you, so that you guys can do the best that you can. And I think that we saw in season three that Karmie was obsessed, and that's a part of who he is, which made him so good, at singularly being a chef. Now we're seeing him try to figure out how he invest,

how he invests into Claire, how he invests into his mom, reinvest into his mom, even sometimes with diminishing returns, how he invests into... the restaurant, and to Cid. And some of that has to do with letting go a little bit. And watching him let go in this season has been phenomenal. I mean, also, because you brought it up, when we were talking about the first episode,

I found it so funny where in that we saw how Carmie, even when he was making like tomato sauce, has this tendency because he's so obsessed and shit to almost get frazzled and not actually pay attention and put love into what he's making. I might be wrong. Over these past couple seasons, we've seen Marcus make food

that is talking about his upbringing and his family and trying to connect. We've seen, we've seen Sid make an omelet for sugar. And this was one of the first episodes in a while where I remember where we're not seeing Karmie try to cook something that is like highbrow, technically perfect da-da-da-da.

He's making chicken for his mom. For his mom. And it's this, I was like, oh, that's a beautiful scene because I'm like, he traveled the entire world, running away from something, learning how to cook, trying to prove himself. And he ended up at the place where he needed to be,

which is infusing love. He's like, I made this at the French laundry every single day. Here you go. And I was just like, oh, that's what he needed more than the rest of it. And that's the peace offering right there. And I was like, that was a beautiful fucking scene. Right. And look, his mom had gone to Italy, had this, you know,

I don't know if you ever. been mad on vacation before. It's so wild that Kanye ended up fucking over himself like he did and doing all the shit. Because there are certain Kanye lyrics that when I would hear him, I would laugh because when he said in Bound

too, he goes, how are you going to be mad on vacation? And I've been there before. I've been in Anguilla with Kalika, like, can we just like can you just stall me out? Just give me three days and then you can whip my ass when we get back because

We waste in beach right now. There's no worse feeling than being on vacation, you had gotten into a fight with your partner. I'm like, fine. I'm going to go out by myself. Just like drinking that, like drinking some mixed drink. It's happened. People, you look around, everybody else look like they got to figure it out.

You're like, yo, can I get another Bailey's banana and cream? And then it, you know what's funny? We got a quick sidebar. So there's a drink that they're, they make in the Caribbean. And it's called a Bailey's Banana and Cream. Okay. Has anybody ever had this drink before?

I have not had a beer. I've never had this. So it's Bailey's Banana and Cream. It's like a mixed drink, right? Now, Kai, the drink is called Bailey's Banana and Cream. What is that for short? All right.

You're setting me up. No, I'm asking you, because that's what the drink is called. What is that for short? BBC. It's the BBC. So you... The British Broadcasting.

That's crazy. You brought me in for that. That's why, shout out to Ka. What time is it, man? Oh, yeah. Shout out Jack Sanders. So we would shout out Jack Sanders. So we would, I remember I'm at the bar and, you know, everybody's hanging out and I'm mad.

Me and Kalikin had gotten to it. I'm mad. And there's a white lady. She wasn't, I don't think she was white. Well, she was white, but I think she was more like a Latin, Latina or something like that. and the you know I'm by myself now and the guy looks over and she goes can I get the BBC I remember I just got in a fight with my girl I don't know if if she's talking to me or or to the bartender and she goes can I get the BBC and I'm like uh no I'm not that mad no you can't

I'm on vacation so anyway did that set clique off she wasn't even there collique over on the on the thing. I had left. We, we, we at the beach shack or whatever,

Blanchard's Beach Shack in, in an, on Meads Bay in Anguilla. And so, if you have a Blanchett's is crazy, it's really good.

So we, we, you know, she over there, she pissed off, whatever. I'm mad. So I go over there

to get the drinks and a woman walks up and she asked for the BBC. And I'm like, do you look good? Yeah. I had to ask.

Sorry, Because we had had him in Grenada, but I have forgotten that the BBC was a drink. Real quick. So Donna's mad on vacation at their father, and that memory becomes about a meal. Yeah. About an Italian woman who had brought her a meal when she's like crying, furious. Yeah. It's clipping my...

Tonado. Tonado. I looked it up. It looked disgusting. Yeah. That, that. And even in the... The dish itself, it's something that looks disgusting,

but you have to eat it to know how good it tastes. Bro, that's what family is. If you step back and you look at, if I tell people about my relationship with my dad or if I tell people about some of the other stuff I've been through with loved ones in my life or some of these people's lives, you would think it would look like all of this stuff was so messy and nasty and disgusting.

but if you're there, you have to be there to understand how good it really takes. I mean, there was even a moment when Karmie was talking to Uncle Lee where I felt this so much where Karmie is almost taking it back. He's like, yo, my Uncle Lee is a prick. And he's like, me and Mikey got really, really close

before he died. And I've had those moments where I've been the person who's left home, I come back, I'm talking to a brother, a cousin, whatever. And they're talking, like, they're best friends with someone we had sworn our whole life. and uncle whoever, I thought you did. Fuck with them.

Did it do. And then you learn the story of he was the only one around when I fucked up. He helped pick me up. He helped keep me comfy. He came and got me. He bailed me out the whole night. And it's funny because I was just like, usually it is those uncle figures who have been in that state where they're like, oh, they're a little older. They're like, I was young.

I fucked up. I remember when I needed someone. And it was interesting seeing Carmi, seeing Uncle Lee in a different light and seeing his brother in a different light. Yeah. In that malls like, oh, that is a very honest conversation. It was just, it was, that was a wonderful episode. And it was something where it was like, did it almost in a weird way feel like a

funeral for the bear a little bit? Which episode? The wedding episode where it was just like, if the series ends with this season, I could see that being in terms of just like, if Fish's was like teaching us the history of the Barrasados, does the wedding episode be like, this is how they break the patterns, this is their future? It did at the time, but then the next two episodes made me wonder how long they want to do the show because they could do the show for a very long time.

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Hilton, for the stay. Talk about the Shapiro thing, though. You wanted to bring it up. How Shapiro's reaction to see it. I don't fuck with Shapiro. Yeah, Shapiro sucks. There was something. There was something that I don't know who got this idea

from this type of character. but I think we've been very, very hard on Karmie in terms of like, and rightfully so how he's treated not only everybody out in the restaurant, but specifically Sid. But I think if you watch the series, you can definitely say that like, Karmie loves Sid on a personal level, but on a professional level,

he actually thinks that she's... He respects her. He respects her. Like, this is the chef that he wants to stand next to. And also, like, get to a point that he can leave her something to be like, even if he's out of it. this world, like, yo, you got this. You don't need this. Run the team by yourself. And I think Shapiro in that moment proved he just wanted her talent. Her talent. Yeah. There's a difference

between, like, he didn't want to give her like true, true equity in this thing. Like a true, like, no, this is your house. I am like partnering with you so this can be yours one day. It seemed like Shapiro was building like a nice house, a nice foundation. She would get health insurance. She could make a lot of decisions, but she's not the boss at the end of the day. Well, I mean, honestly, she's just another state of the art thing, meaning that, like, he has a state of the art health care system. He has a state of the art sound system. He was showing her all of the incredible immaculate stuff that he was going to, she's just another stuff. She's another thing. She's literally a talented black woman that you can

feel cool when you're playing anti-op. Yeah, she's a state of the art chef. She's another thing. But there's no family. There's no connection. I don't know if he even sees her as a person in the same way that Carmie and Richie and Tina do in terms of like, no, we see your talent as a chef, but we also see your beauty as a person in this world in our family.

I don't know if Shapiro would ever have given her that. Yeah, I mean, look, that's a part of the calculus that we all have to do in our heads in terms of what is meaningful to us, you know? Like, if you're a basketball player and you are a part of the culture of the city that you're in, you know? Think about if, like, Steph left Golden State. Now, it might be a time where

Steph might want to leave Golden State, but it's not going to be for no money. That wouldn't be why that would happen. So, like, when, you know, you have a player or somebody that's a part of the culture of a place, a part of the thing. Like, I am definitively a part of this. For you to leave, we see this all the time. That has to be a major, major pool.

Either you have to leave so that you could achieve more. You believe more about yourself. Or you have to believe that it's worth building culture again somewhere else. And so I think the wedding, plus all of the other questions that she was having about herself, I mean, part of Sid might have gone, well, if my dad is sick, shit, I don't even know if I can be in a new place where I'm not really looked at as a human being. If I'm a need to be able to take care of him, you saw some of the dreams that she was having about operating inside all of this chaos and stuff like that. You know, when she eventually talks to him, he insults her. Yeah.

So that tells you what working with him would have been like. If he would have treated her like a person, he might have, he had no interest into why she made the decision. So this is very important. If you're listening out here and you want some advice from O'Head, in that situation where you've made a decision not to do something and you're on the other end of the phone with somebody who actually cares about you, they're going to be interested. in what made you made that decision. Yeah. They're going to care about why you came to this, particularly if they think that you're making the wrong decision.

But if they just, if somebody just looks at you and said, what you're doing is dumb, then they've sent it themselves in a call that was difficult for you to make. Or even if they're disappointed doing the like, hey, I'm disappointed, but I'm here whenever you need me. If you ever need help,

if you ever need to call me up, text me whatever, like, I'm here for you. Dida, dida, da, da, are you excited? You know what I mean? But even if it's a little bit more cynical than that, it's like, you know, I'm really disappointed. Just what about the bear makes you feel like you can get, you can be the best version of yourself there?

What am I not offering you that you see there? Yeah. Right. Just a sliver of actual concern for how difficult it was for you to make the decision. Just something more than your disappointment. Because no, and you always learn your disappointment. is paramount, and it would have been the same way has she disappointed him in some other way,

which is going to happen when you're in a working relationship with somebody. And also do you think it's, she met Karmie and everybody at the beef at their worst. And Karmie never hid who he was from her. Like, Karmie's always been an asshole. Ritchie's always been an asshole. It's always been chaotic. And I tell people all the time,

especially when I deal with white folks. I'm like, sometimes it's way easier for me to deal with someone where I'm like, hey, yo, they're all their cards on the table versus someone who is just like presenting themselves as an ally. And I'm like, and then

when they fuck up, I'm like, this was kind of who you always were. You were just hiding it from me. Versus I'm like, Carmie has almost worn his heart on his sleeve to too much of the extent. He can't help just but be himself. And yeah, I thought

if we're talking about our predictions, when I think, I started thinking like, is this kind of like an anti-sitcom where it has the structure of a sitcom, it has the beats. We get the wedding episode. We get the facts. We get Richie saying little stuff like that.

But it's not giving us what fans have wanted, which is the Sid and Carmi relationship, or potentially Sid breaking off and competing with Carmi or like all the stuff that we were like predicting. I was just like, the show almost, wet in the more, I don't want to say realistic, but the more we're torn down. It's about people making weird

decisions. And that's what life is. Life is about people making weird decisions. Think about how many times you didn't talk to somebody and you're like, yo, why you do that? And they go, shit, man. How many times have you been in the situation? It's like, why you do that?

Or our inability as people to see past the thing that's right in front of us, And like every moment you spend not talking to somebody that you into it with has to really matter because particularly if that person is in your family, like it's your mom, it's your dad, it's your brother, it's something like that. And your feelings are so important. And you've centered them to such a degree that you're like, I can't fuck with them,

I can talk to them right now. and then you have no clue when the last time you're going to talk to that person is or what's going to happen during the time that you're not fucking with them. Yeah. But we made these decisions every day. We make, and we, it's up,

it's in our nature as human beings to not look at the big picture. If we were thinking, it's odd, I'm rambling, but I want to land this. If we were thinking of the big, picture the entire time we were on this planet, we would not be able to exist. We'd be in existential dread every single second, every single decision we think and move

based upon the input that's right in front of us. And so when I'm watching the show, I'm watching people that are trying to think about the big picture, but they just love. They love. They're mad. They're jealous. they're scared, they're confused. And that is a bigger thing.

Like, Uncle is losing his shirt on the restaurant, but he just wants to be able to take care of these kids. Like, you know what I mean? He's, the decision makes, it doesn't make any sense. But it's, and it's funny because, like, even it does a very sitcom thing where it's just like, you have the Ebra plot line where you're just like, is this going to be the saving grace? The saving grace.

And to your point, the person that's actually looking at the bigger picture is the one person that was almost pushed to the side. Yeah. And you're just like, oh, you're like, we're washing it to the entire and you're like, almost these also rands of the bear, the people that aren't doing the fine dining thing

are now the ones that I was going to ask you, is for the bear to survive, do you think that they're all, also saying something about the restaurant industry. How many places do we order from DoorDash or fucking whatever you use that don't have a physical location anymore? I think that that's an interesting question. And it makes me think of two different things.

Number one, you have to have the place that you're comfortable going in order to have the place that is daring. Yeah. Like, I like a restaurant here in, in Beverly Hills. It's called steak 48. Okay. It's a chain.

It's got a couple of them. Maybe five or six of them around town. But steak 48 never misses. I go there, I get the shells and the cheese. They got lobster. They got chicken fried lobster on my daddy. So I go there, right? And I go there when I know,

when I know. And this is not like a mom and pops. It's like a fancier steak restaurant. But it's good. Yeah. So if it's my birthday, I'm going there. If it's like, I'm going there because I don't want to go to a place with all different types of shit if I want to be certain.

But life isn't about certainty. So the question is, how do you juggle comfort with being daring? This season, really, we've seen a lot of people, even in the conversation that Luca has with Tina, where he's talking about how much pressure do you want? Yeah. Like how much, like, of your life do you want to be uncomfortable so that you can achieve something? Are you supposed to be comfortable? Is there a time in your life where comfortability is supposed to,

comfortability is even something that you should be trying to attain? And there is. Just not all the time. Yeah. We're watching Karmie become more comfortable with situations that were uncomfortable. and we're watching everybody else adapt to pressure, which last season was more about Karmie putting pressure on everyone and breaking them into little bitty pieces.

Yeah. And so he's becoming whole because he's becoming more comfortable. And some of these other people are becoming whole because they're adapting to pressure. Mark, this is the best chef, one of the top upcoming chefs. So this is, did you see that coming? Because what I... And we haven't even talked about my man who's trying to guess the wines. Oh, fucking sweeps.

Yeah, sweeps. Once again, putting that shit ton of pressure on himself. And every... I love taking the little breathers with him as he's trying to guess the wines and do all of that stuff. I thought, but once again,

a character who started off is almost just like a very small part of like season one. And to your point, I'm just like, him with the facts and they're like, he's not skittal zitt-da-da. It's... It also shows you how Karmie has now built a place.

where these other people can feel ownership of the restaurant and their role in the restaurant. And I think the show is saying a couple things about, just because I watch a lot of like food shows, read a lot of food shit where it's like, for someplace like the bear to exist, just financially in 2025, I don't know how many restaurants.

I wanted to go to an L.A. where I'm like, my friend's like, you need to try this restaurant. I check temporarily close. closed, closed, we couldn't stay open, did it, did a da, da. Or they'll say, we're going straight, just delivery.

There's no place you can eat here, dida, da, da. I think even with Marcus's role in the bear, I might be totally wrong. We might have to ask Dave Chang about this, but have you ever heard that like pastry chefs in the culinary world sometimes are looked down on,

pastry chefs, desserts? I don't know anything about it. Just in terms of just like, you have to think about it. there's one of Marcus in this restaurant. There's a whole bunch of other chefs, Sioux chefs doing everything. Usually it's just Marcus in the corner,

just like grinding away, kind of just like, but he's making beautiful stuff. We've seen this entire season, people be like, this is delicious chef, this is perfect chef. And it was interesting

when Sugar announced who the best new chef is, Carmie didn't look at Marcus. Yeah. Carmi looked at sea. Yeah. And that was even, like a telling where it was just like even Karmie had it located like

you have a best new chef in your restaurant you would say we're so focused on like dinner and making that you didn't realize that you had this kind of like gem yeah and even Luca I think in that moment was just like I think Luca that entire time was like oh he's gotten good you know what I'll is speaking of Marcus he was only in a couple of scenes in the wedding episode

but Marcus, what's homie's name that Marcus that sold his house for him? I forget. Look that up for me. You guys know I'm not great with names on television shows. But he's like, when he's talking about the fact that they weren't invited, he goes,

who's about to get this fucking wedding? I love Marcus. Also, I've been in that exact situation with somewhere where I'm like, we're not supposed to be. I hate that feeling. Bro, let me tell you something, real quick. I got to hit y'all.

Chester. I got to hit y'all with another one real quick. The year's 2006, maybe 2007. Now, I had to be 2006. I'm living in the apartment with Dan and Brett. Okay. Brett Buletech, Dan. Okay.

Our friend Nick Sheptec, shout out to Nick. who all these guys are Chicago guys Right, they all went to Columbia College of Chicago We had a friend named Will Will. Will was a little bit more Plugged into Hollywood stuff than we were Cool Will, black guy, the rest of these dudes are white We go to this party

We go to this party and we hang out in the party And we're chilling Me, Nick's friend Joe Me, Joe, Dan, Brett, all of them These are my still in college mode first guy out to LA made a bunch of friends

white boyfriends and I started looking around and I started looking at people I'm like yo these people don't want us in this bitch we're at somebody's house and it was

Will was either invited Will Jellin is his name shout out to Will wherever you at brother hit me up Will was invited or he came with somebody.

Will told us to pull up. We pulled up. So we inside the house, we're chilling, we're having fun, we're meeting people, we're doing the whole thing, like everybody's hanging out.

And then people start asking us, like, who are you here with? Like, why are you here? And I'm like, and you know, I'm like, yo,

cool, I'm good, whatever. We're about to, we'll get the fuck out. I'm out of here. It's cool. We'll leave.

So we get up. And I'm, I always had it in my mind that I wasn't going to get caught up in no shit with these dudes because the shit would be different, you know? This would be different. So we're getting ready to leave. And Nick Sheptack, my homie, nice guy, tall dude, he's a white Sox fan, cool guy. I start to see a little static.

There's some static. Nick, Brett, Dan, there's some static. I'm like, okay, I'm about to get out. So I walk out the door. right? And I'm walking out the door and there's a hill where we had to walk

the person's house was up on the hill. These are nice little house. So I'm walking down and I see Nick at the door pointing at people. Like pointing at people.

Dan and Nick and everybody and all of a sudden I see people coming down to hill. Stop. Gigantic brawl. Like, bro, huge fucking brawl. Everybody is getting busy.

Fuck, no. Crazy? You think I'm about to go up there? So the cops could pull up one dead. Like, the cops killed one guy. I'm sitting down there, I'm looking. Everybody is getting busy. Dan is a fucking wild man.

Dan it took on like three or four people. I got to actually go get Dan. I'm like, Dan, you're about to kill this guy. I got to grab Dan off of the fucking guy. Nick, Joe, Joe gets a gigantic. gash over this is crazy white boy shit. And, but when we was on our way to the party, Joe had on flip-flops and, or one of them had on flip,

no, Brett had on flip-flops. And Joe was telling Brett, don't wear flip-lops. What if we get in the fight? And I was telling them show up, I was like, if y'all get in the fight, I'm letting y'all know, I'm not about to fight for y'all on this bitch. It ain't that type of fresh shit. Showing up to another person's house you don't know with flip-flops.

And by the way, we, this shows you. We showed up out. Think of how many people. No one's invited. Me, Dan, Brett, Nick, Joe. It's five people. Was it that type of party where you could just blend in because there's so many motherfuckers?

Obviously not, Charles. So it's like, obviously not. I remember looking, because at first we're having fun. We played a little car game. We're talking to girls and all of that stuff like that. We are hit at the party. People are enjoying us at the party. And then people just start to like get the fuck out of my house.

Like, who are you? And so, I'm like, I'm like, all right, cool. I'm gone. Boom, I'm talking about, when I say a huge bra, I'm talking about like eight or nine people fighting. Hell yeah. The dudes, eight or nine people fighting. Dan and bust somebody up, blood everywhere.

Like, it was really fun. And that's what I'm talking about. That's why Marcus, I was like, I'm around these white folks. I'm on these white folks. And we didn't see Marcus again. Maybe we did once or twice in the episode. Because look, got to get out of it. I can't do it.

do it. Boy, then what's the days? Busbies. We will go to Busbys on Wilshire. We went there right after the Tony Soprano. Final episode, anyway, whatever. Final episode of Sopranos. Played, don't stop believing in all that. We have not seen the season finale. I haven't seen it. Or the series finale. I'm very excited.

I am just like, it is so much of this feels like the death of one version of the bear. Where I'm just like, I might have, That might have been a total misread. But it's like, it seems like Karmie is putting his affairs in order. He is like, I'm no longer a chef.

Y'all got this. I'm riding off to the sunset with my girl. Because he was at Frank Lloyd Wright's House in the other episode. Like, he's appreciated art, in architecture and the finer things. He might be like. And the conversation between him and Claire Bear, we have to talk about in episode nine where it seems as if they have, he is vulnerable. vulnerable enough with her to where she forgives him and they are back on.

Did you think that are we supposed to believe because basically it's a very romantic scene where he's like, he calls her to talk about the mom, has to hang up. He wants to tell her something again. They called back. She reveals that at one of the parties, Don almost burned down the house. She lost a green sweatshirt. And Carmi finds it. And I was just like, did Carmie keep that?

After that. Has he been in love with this woman for years? And it's been in his closet. And he's like, I can finally give it back to her. And him giving it back to her is like him giving himself to her. It's closing the loop. It seems like even him cooking his mom that chicken felt like, is this show trying to say Carmi's journey or what he was chasing,

what Tina was like, you don't have to chase the shit anymore. You're the shit. Is this him being like, I don't have to. to chase being the best chef ever. I can move on and do something else. Here's the question. That's a good question. Is Karmie's journey to become Mikey?

Mikey, who didn't have any excellence professionally, but was the rock of his family. Right? Whenever you see Mikey on the show, he's surrounded by family. They're doing something together. he was present. Obviously, there was a lot that was weighing on him, obviously, but he was present.

Is Karmie's real goal, or not his real goal, is the real salvation of the character in marrying that part of his brother with still being able to achieve something in his professional life? Because remember, he asked him, first episode, first scene, when he's talking, he's like, the car rental thing, did you love it? did you love the car rental thing? And he's like, no, I didn't give a shit about it. So, I mean, there's enough love to go around,

but I think this season has really been about Karmie trying to figure up how he divides himself. I mean, that is interesting because it is funny how many people are so surprised when Karmie shows up at the wedding or are so surprised that he's seeing his mom. And I was just like, oh, I had not really thought of, like, are they surprised because Karmie does have, that thing in him that Mikey had, which is just like,

you make people better. You make people better, yeah. People want to be around you. Even if, like, let's say he doesn't leave cooking, is there a version of his life that's okay helping being the rock that is like, all right, we're going to set up little locations so we can get these sandwiches across Chicago,

but I don't need to be in the back of the fucking kitchen doing like fucking high cuisine shit. Is it okay if the bear is never first laundry? which, by the way, I can't get anyone who can get me in the French laundry. Listen, I'll be honest with you. I've been trying to go eat there. I bet Bill had Bill been there before. Bill can't get us into the French laundry?

It's a question. I don't be wanting to ask him for stuff like that. I don't want to him to do stuff like that. I don't want to have to go through Bill. Bill, you know, it's like if, to me, you should never, you know, he's kind of, he started this whole, you don't want to ask him to go to the French laundry. want to go, you know who you want? I'll give you an example. You want the Shapiro in your life to get you into the fresh laundry. Oh, that's Tommy. Tommy could get you into the fucking French laundry.

Tommy, whatever. You want the Shapiro. Somebody that is trying to whine and dine you, that's the person that you want to get into, want to get you into the French laundry, because then you can get them to do the favor and you can dove them after like, oh, Hollywood husband. But if it's the guy, who is kind of a dude around here, then you're going to be in a situation with him, and he's going to be like, hey, remember that time I got you in the first launch?

You're going to be, fuck. All right, I'll do the podcast, man. You know what I'm saying? You don't want to be beholded, you know? Fuck, good advice. All right, so wrapping up. We are so bad at predicting what's going to happen next. But season or series finale,

How are you feeling going into the last episode of The Bear? Are you kind of like rejuvenated? Because like I've seen, I haven't read any of the reviews. I've kind of been trying to keep myself very pure. But I see people are like a little mix or whatever. How are you feeling about this season and just the bear is a project in general? I'm really enjoying it. To me, this season is, I think it's incredible in terms of the growth of the show.

I'm laughing. I'm getting really weighty, important scenes. the artistic vision of the show, the music, all of that. Chicago is still a major character in the show. It's beautiful shots of Chicago. I'm really enjoying it. I think sometimes I think what we do with shows like this, shows that because we don't get as many of these anymore,

shows that feel like appointment viewing. I remember that first, second season of the bear, it felt like, finally, we all have a show we can talk about again. I think sometimes we have a rocky relationship with them in terms of just like our love and hate. relationship and pushing back on the thing, but watching the season, what I remembered is I'm like,

oh, this show, what it's trying to say about grief, about dealing with people in your family who have substance abuse issues and like, how do you grow? How do you break cycles of abuse and break cycles of toxicity?

The talk that Karmie has with Uncle Lee and then the talk he has with Donna, as someone who has had to have similar talks, many people in my life who either alcoholism or substance abuse seeing people take their lives and seeing what it does to a family

I know it's not always the most fun thing to watch and I know this is going to sound very corny I feel lucky being able to watch a show that's kind of like we want to tackle this shit yeah we want to talk about it even if it's not pretty

even if it always doesn't work even if one season might not be as good as another seeing those actors seeing the writing, seeing what they're trying to achieve and the emotion of that, I'm not, like, I got Misty out, I'm just like, they're fucking locating something about all of that that is fucking true. And I'm just like, I'm fucking excited to see

how they land the plane, what they do. I don't fucking know, but I thought, I think so far this has been a fucking phenomenal season. Things been great. This has been great. Can't wait for a finale. All right, yo, that has been your penultimate episode of our coverage of the bear.

back on Monday to talk about the season or the series finale. We honestly don't know. I haven't read anything about it. Thank you so much to everyone behind the boards. C.T. Kai, Justin, you all have done such amazing work and we'll see you soon. This episode is brought to you by Netflix's remarkably bright creatures. What if a Pacific octopus held the key to a mystery that could heal your heart? Well, that's Tova's reality.

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