The Prestige TV Podcast - ‘The Crown’ Season 6, Episodes 3-4

Episode Date: November 20, 2023

Jo and Amanda return to recap Episode 3-4 of Season 6 of ‘The Crown,’ including their thoughts on “memory Diana,” the show’s portrayal of Charles, the moral ambiguity in depicting Diana’s death, and how they position Prince William as the main character of the second half of the season, which drops on December 14. Check back in on the feed in December for our recaps of the second half of this final season of ‘The Crown.’ Hosts: Joanna Robinson and Amanda Dobbins Producer: Sasha Ashall Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Exclusion supplies to homedipo.com slash price match for details. The Prestige TV podcast feed, I'm Joina Robinson and here to wrap up the part one of the final season of the Crown. It is my favorite royals expert, Amanda Dobbins. Hello, Amanda. How are you doing? Hello, Joanna. I'm so happy to see you. I'm delighted to see you.

Yeah, we're podcasting through light adversity in the form of various winter ailments that have struck. But it's okay. We're, you know, we're remote. So we're practicing, you know, healthy and safe podcasting. And also we have the crown to bring us together. We are not wearing, like, on-theme, stylish swimwear, but just imagine us embracing, like, the San Trope, the sunny Santerpe aspect of all this before we go to foggy, drizzly Balmoral for the back half of this two-part season.

Okay, so we're here to talk about episodes three and four, which are DiMois, say yes to me, written by Peter Morgan and... Can you do this entire podcast and a wrap? attitude accent. There is, in fact, a small rat underneath my headphones, just, like, sort of pull out all the strings on all my takes and opinions. Aftermath, also, so both are written by Peter Morgan and both are directed by Christian Schuachshel.

I don't know. It's German. I don't know how to pronounce it. Do you have any thoughts or feelings on how to pronounce this name? No, and I copy and pasted this into the doc. And then I was like, okay, I'm going to Google it so that I can know how to pronounce it for this episode because we had this issue last time. and I didn't.

Here's my vow to everyone, and including Christian, maybe his family. By part two, I will know how to say this name. Okay. I will, as my promise. General parking reminders for the feed, Sean Fentesey and I are covering the curse, also on this feed.

So, you know, just click over to that when you're done with this. It could go better. I think they would pair very well together. Yeah, sure. They're completely utterly different. We are finishing up this crown coverage of this first part now, but we'll be back, I presume, if all goes according to plan, in mid-December, to do part two, the rest of the series, including the series finale.

So that's hitting you all on December 14th, and we'll be back right around that time. But here we are. It is August 31st, 1997, and we get a TikTok, minute by minutes, almost. Count, not minute by minutes. It's not real time. Anyway, countdown to the crash that started the season off. And then the second episode that we're covering here today, Aftermath, is as Amanda has outlined in our notes, a remake of the queen but meaner. Yeah.

So here we are, you know? Here we are. And we'll talk a lot about it, but I think we just have to start. DeMoi is, if not a minute by minute, then pretty much an hour by hour and step by step recreation of the last 48 hours. of Diana and Doty Fayed's life. It is drawn from a wealth of available sources of what actually happened and then also investigations after the fact. So there are a tremendous number of true details, including the ring, DiMois, which we will

talk about at length, but is a real ring that existed and that allegedly Doty bought. And is hideous. Just unbelievably ugly, which is sort of the point, you know, and is heightening, you know, showing off that things are like the Fayette family and Jodian particular, things are kind of like getting out of his control. He's not really reading the signs. He's not really reading the room. The taste isn't aligned. Well, what's funny about this is like, I am, we're going to get obviously chronologically to all of this, but I just love that in this like, version because yes, the ring is real, but we don't know and we doubt that Diana, like,

picked it out while being completely panicked and, like, freaked out by a crowd approaching her. But I just love that moment where she's just like, I don't know, that's fine. And he's like, uh, I found it the ring. You know, it's just like, astonishing. And so, and that kind of highlights, like, the dichotomy of this episode, which it is, it is both like as fact-based or as detail-oriented and as, like, pulled from the headlines, as I think any episode of this show. Yes.

But it is also on the other side of the cameras. And so it is doing a lot of imagination in terms of the character motivations of both Diana and Doty. Because for all that we do quote unquote know and all that we have seen on TV footage and like in the inquest into Diana's death, we have no idea what was going on

between those two people in the last 48 hours. hours. Like, we don't know what their feelings were. We don't, we know that they, like, we're pretty sure they weren't engaged, but like, there are, there are people who still think that they were. So, you know, we don't know anything. And so it's real detail and imagined emotion, which is sort of a- And conversations. Like, yes, exactly. Like, the big conversation that happens in, in the Ritz, like, sweet is wholly imagined, you know, if it's just two of them in a room. that's wholly a man, two people in a room who die shortly thereafter. That's entirely imagined, you know, what's going on in their thoughts and hearts as they're

standing in that hallway, way to go out the back door, you know, imagined, et cetera. But like I think. But like, but even like that camera angle and what they're wearing and them waiting is based on like real CCTV footage, which is, which, you know, we're, you and I are recording this. I mean, the episodes are out in the world. And so, like, first reactions are coming out. But I think, you know, and it's already starting a little bit how people feel about these episodes. And there is, like, an outrage machine, you know, that is separate from this that we don't even, like, I don't have time for it.

But I, it will be interesting to see as kind of as more and more people see these episodes, how people react to what I feel is like a pretty bold choice. of how they show of how detailed the final moments are. And how they handle it. It's interesting because I don't want to throw Peter Morgan a parade for like clearing the bar, bare men of and like what have you. But I was when I was rewatching these two episodes prepping to record with you, I was like, you know, because I've been thinking a lot about Ryan Murphy and how like these episodes go hand in hand with the OJ Simpson season of American Crime Star.

which was such an interesting examination of, like, media and stuff like that. But I was like, but if Ryan Murphy at all got their little hands on this story, we would have been treated to like every celebrity that was Diana's, you know, like Tom Cruise, Nicole Kibman, Mariah Carey, Elton John. Like, Elton John would definitely be a character. You know what I mean? Like, that's, there is a version of this. Was Diana a character in American history story, Gianni Versace?

because she was famously at that funeral. Yeah. No. I don't, I don't know. I did cover that for a podcast, but I do not recall or being there. Yeah.

Yeah. So it's just like, I was like there is a lurid version of this. And I really think that this is comparatively restrained and keeps its focus where Peter Morgan has always wanted his focus to be, which is like, what does this say about the institution of the monarchy in the face of something like this? And what does it say about the institution of the media? And what is it say about how we all respond to those two things?

I guess what does it say about our consumption of it? No, I agree. It's relatively, it's relatively respectful. I mean, you know, once you get past the decision of, well, I guess we're just. just recreating this, like beat for beat. The points of emphasis are respectful, right? Yeah. There was something I noticed, rewatching these ups, that I had noticed in the last two,

but I forgot to mention. I think it's fascinating that with Doty and Diana, you know, they did for like less than a month, really. Like, it's not even, it's not even really a thing. But we get a lot of montage of them, like canoodling in France and, like canoodling. and canoodling on the boat, but we don't see them actually kiss

until the camera captures the kiss, which was a really fascinating choice. They're sleeping together at that point, but we just see them sort of like nuzzling and all this sort of stuff, but we don't see a kiss until the camera sees a kiss. And similarly in these episodes, the sound cuts out

when the doctor announces Diana's death in the hospital and the sounds cuts out when it is announced to Charles at all. The sound cuts out when they tell Harry So when we hear Princess Diana is dead, we hear it when the TV, like the BBC broadcaster says it. So there's a way in which I don't know if Peter Morgan's just like either it's a very deft examination of what we're allowed inside versus what we're not allowed inside or Peter Morgan's like, I don't want the responsibility of touching this. Like I don't know how artistic versus like squeamish the choices were. but I thought those two things were interesting.

I think those choices in particular are like effective in terms of just making a TV show and, you know, fictional like storytelling. And when we did the first two episodes, you know, I said I think like in general, I have just been surprised by how much of this they have done, you know, because I sort of expected them to take a like a side route or not. like a side route, but, you know, the crowd will often be like, here is whatever in the, from the perspective of like a footman or something, you know, or like here is how. I know what you mean, but like, like if the two photographs episode had really just stayed with the photographers. Right. Exactly.

Exactly. Yeah. Exactly. And so, and so I have always thought that was like an effective form of, of TV making. and I kind of expected them to be like, well, you, like, we all know what happened and, like, we've all seen it and also I've made the queen. So, you know, here's like a new side angle on it. And that's not the case. They just, like, drove, you know, went straight on into it.

But I did think those kind of the sound cutting out, you know, was like a, we know what it said, you know? And like, we don't actually have to recreate that and you can fill in it. it actually then puts the emphasis on the reactions and the emotions, both of the characters, and then how you respond to it as well. So I did think it was effective. And I guess, like, you're right that, you know, maybe elements of like tastefulness were, you know, conscious on, on people's minds. I don't know. It, I, we should talk a little bit about, it's hard to know. And we can talk more about the reaction as, as people get their, get their feelings off. I don't really care. I think the other thing that it does that these two episodes do really effectively,

and particularly episode three, which is a bottle episode, essentially, between Diana and Doty. It's like a Paris bottle episode. But it's really... I haven't said this before. We have different definitions of bottle episode and that is okay. But you mean like a character, a character bubble. I mean like a character, a character bubble. And they are like pretty much, it's just the two of them in a place. like we haven't really been before, which is like a car in Paris, you know? And like the other effect of doing all of this, like, in real time, is that it does allow for character studies, as you said, of both Diana and Doty in particular.

And episode three really gives a whole storyline and, and sense of closure related Doty that certainly the real life coverage of this event and of his dad. did not, at least in Western media, as the show kind of acknowledges. So, you know, I watched these almost as kind of like a eulogy or a benediction for these two people, especially that last scene where that is completely imagined. And it's like the nicest breakup in history. And they each kind of, they speak honestly to the other and allow their, like, express their wishes and hopes for the future of the other person, which, you know, is like a, is like a, if

If you're going to do it, it's like the nicest way to do it. And I did also find a very moving, especially the Diana stuff. And like this episode three as his last portrait of Diana is, I think, like a pretty loving, like generous, wistful, like a very sad imagined version of this person. So like in that sense, I, you know, I guess it's not disrespectful. To me, it's still just surprising. Yeah, I mean, I suppose that like, I find that Doty stuff to be really interesting because this is where, this is where, like, I think the most poetic license is taken place with the characterization of Doty, with the conversation, the phone call, which I had to, like, rewind and watch again to, like, really understand what had happened there in terms of

him, like, hanging up the phone but still pretending he was on the phone. And then later, Diana's like, I know that that's what you did. Here's my best explanation for why that happened is twofold. One later, his father, via inquest in the 2000s, like via, you alluded to this before, but like Muhammad Ophiad, like, levied all these accusations at the, at the royals and stuff like that about a conspiracy around Diana's death. He said that they were engaged, they were in love, she was pregnant, like all this stuff, you know, like, which is just like, he went for it. It just really seems untrue. The engagement is a, is a question mark, but like, I guess it gives

Muhammad, like, slight plausible deniability coverage that he got a call from his son that night that says, like, an understanding was reached between two people. And that's, like, the last he hears before the phone gets hung up on him. So there's that possibly that. But also this idea that, like,

in terms of a future for, because we can all envision what the future for Diana looks like and, like, how much more good she could have done via, like, you know, her work with charities and landmine, and blah, blah, and, like, her active hand she could have taken in raising the boys and all this sort of stuff.

Like, this is the future that's cut off. The future for Doty seems less bright for me, but in this depiction of this character in this moment, what is cut off is the chance for him to ever actually have that conversation with actually stand up to his father, which is the thing that Diane is like, I know you'll do this. I'll know you'll do this eventually. And he won't because he'll die before he gets a chance to do that. And so, like, it gives him, again, as they, as they.

really struggled to make these deaths feel equally weighted or at least like somewhat comparable in the eye of at least like popular culture or storytelling. Giving Doty like a maybe you could have done this if you had had a little bit more time. That's my best explanation for why that's there, you know? And I think within the context of the episode and the two characters, it is like pretty emotionally affecting. I like I found the phone call stuff a little confusing. I was like, I just kind of went on too long.

I was like, I get this. And I feel like we, like, we could have hit the note of will he stand up to his father or not? And even kind of like the resonance of Doty and his father, Charles and his parents, Diana, you know, like. It went on way too long. Like, like, it goes on for a long time. On the flip side, I found the Diana stuff just like, like pretty gut punch, you know? This, like in episode three and finally, in that last piece, she's like, She's getting it together and they're very intentional about it, right?

It starts with her calling her therapist on the phone. And, like, by the way, that fictional, I actually don't know. She's real. She's real. That's the real therapist? Well, I mean, there's an actress playing. I only know this because closed captions put her name and so I googled it. Oh, okay.

Susie Orbach is, was Diana's psychotherapist. And, like, I will shout out, like, and she has had, she was, like, married to Jeanette Winterson for a while. She's, like, a very interesting person. but she has never written anything about Diana and I think, I mean, probably legally can't but still like plenty of people have written about Diana who seems like they legally shouldn't so.

Right, right, right. I mean, there is also, and one of the episodes makes note of the fact that, like, Diana was spending a lot of time with, like, acupunctrists and, like, healers. And, like, there's one detail in a book that's, like, she would sit in, like, a blue plastic pyramid for healing, which has just, like, always stayed with me. Wow.

And, like, as I, like, go to, of various play spaces with my son and sit in pyramids. You know, I'm like, oh, is this my blue plastic pyramid? Anyway, I'm just obsessed with all the narratives that put you on the path to your best Diana life, you know? Really the only thing I'm getting from those pyramids is various winter colds. Yeah. But anyway, so it's the real therapist who, and is doing great work and gives her great advice. I guess there is a reason that Susie Orbach is, you know, internationally renowned. But like Diana's also on board with it, right? She's presented as like, understanding that the engraved poem, which, you know, there might have even been an ocean and potion

is, like, quite cheesy. The therapist says to her, you know, like, drama's an addiction and is this where you really need to be. And she is like, you're right. I need to, she's realizing that, like, this is not the best, like, long-term environment, but not even in a, like, mean way. It's just sort of responsible decision-making. And you're just like, oh, okay, she's figuring it out. And And then the rest of the episode is just like such a huge emphasis on her love for her sons, which, I mean, it's not like we haven't all understood that to be the great tragedy. And that is how like a lot of us responded to it. And the Philip character even acknowledges that at one point in episode four.

But man, I, this, this worked on me. It was maybe manipulative. But I found it absolutely every, every single. note that they hit was just really sad. And the boys, too, like, the, you know, the very young actor playing Harry, I think, does an incredible job in that last phone call. Yeah, it really, it really got me. Yeah. Really got me. Yeah. And, you know, I reread the, I reread my gal's Tina's sections about, you know, this kind of last month of Diana's life. And the understanding was that, and, And this is good to know as we talk a bit more about William, who is, like, really starting to become a character in episode four is that his reservations about Diana's, Diana Summer, if you will, were I think a little more pointed.

And there was, like, maybe a little bit more tension. And certain reports have said that, like, their last phone call, you know, and by the way, I feel like a fucking ghoul saying this. But I guess I have this information in my head and we're talking about a show that re-creas. created it. So, like, here we all are. But that it was not, it didn't end on like a great note because he was a teenager and he was like, why are, you know, who can say? Yeah, the way the boys have talked about it. And they kind of put this in here with like, we got to go to dinner. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. The way the boys have said it is that they were like, they wanted to go outside and play with their cousins. So they, like, they didn't want to stay

on the phone with their mom because they wanted to be outside playing, which is like a totally natural thing for young boys to feel in it. It is not a referendum on their feelings of their mom, but they're like, if I knew that that was the last time I was going to talk to her, like I would have stayed on the phone forever. And they have William asked whether she is going to marry Doty, which acknowledges that, like, he, you know, there was, there was something there that he was concerned about. And I think there, like, there were a lot of people.

There is a great, quote, I think many people were asking this because, you know, that's how we all live and consume media then and now. And a quote that she gave to a friend. was like, I need another marriage. Like, I need a rash on my face. Yeah. Which is just, you know what? Diana, Diana had it.

So they have her give that answer to William. They have him interested in it. But I just, the portrayal is just pure love. And like the end of that phone call with her just being like, I love you on that. And we all know that it's the last time. I mean, it's tough. But I thought well done. And her face too, when she hangs the phone and it just like sits on her face for a little while,

as it's like resting in the back of the settee and she's just sort of like, you know, partly wistful but partly content. And, you know, there's like a little smile and like, okay, I'm going to go back and I'm going to like get my shit together and this is all going to be like different. You know, it's sort of. Yeah, it's devastating. And Debicki did, DeBicki who's been phenomenal throughout the entire time she's played Diana does so much in this episode, episode three, wordlessly. Like the whole, the breakdown in the, in the Ritz dining room and stuff like that, like all this stuff that she's just doing with like subtle changes and transformations,

I just was really dazzled by her in all of this. Yeah. And the focus on the boys, in addition to it just being like the real heart of this tragedy. Yeah. And certainly like the behind the curtains part of the tragedy because, you know, episode three is like the person. and episode four starts to, you know, they talk a lot about the public versus the private morning. But, you know, this show is a lot about parents and kids

and parents failing their children. And so for this episode, Diana's like final real episode to go out showing just, you know, like actual love, which, you know, is, it's effective. And I thought it was, like I said, like, you know, this. shows version of a eulogy and, you know, like a very sweet and loving and sad note to go on.

So I really liked the Diana stuff. The dony stuff I also really liked. I thought it went on too long. But he's a character they made me care about. And like, even as we see him, even as we are frustrated with him, because he is like moving Diana around in these spots that are motivated by his father's manipulation. And we're like, you know, as you point out in our nose, there's so many like what ifs in in this episode, episode three.

And so much of that is like in the version that they're telling here, because Jody was trying to pull off this thing that his father was insistent that he'd do. And so he's like kind of in a way a villain of this episode. But the portrayal is so empathetic. He's portrayed as honestly just like a very sweet dummy as opposed to like a villain. And everything from misreading the DiMois ring. to not being able to manage any of the logistics, to, like, thinking it's a good idea

to be driving back and forth in Paris from, you know, the Ritz to his apartment to this restaurant. And, like, by the way, like, they were literally IRL planning to go to Che Bonois, and then they changed and went back to the Ritz. And, like, and then the table, and then she started crying in the restaurant.

Like, this is all, you know, we live in hell because we know all of this, actually. But it is all, like, true. Yeah. But so they, I think, kind of do his character, the service of being like, of making it clear that it's not, he was just out of his depth and a little overwhelmed and trying to, you know, please too many people, including his dad, but also doesn't, he just like doesn't understand what's going on rather than anything malicious or anything intentional or even like anything flashy. It wasn't like he just, you know. He's trying to, A, B, the son, his dad wants him to be or trying to do what his dad does.

You know, because his dad, like, bullies his way onto a call with Diana or, like, all his various things. His dad is, like, pulling some strings. He just doesn't have the stomach for it. Like, he just can't do it. He can't do what his dad does, you know. Whether or not you think that's a good or a bad thing, I think it's a good thing to not be, you know, more like his manipulative father. And we should say, like, I don't know, it's hard. Not that anyone's asking me to you.

It is hard to pick an MVP of these episodes, but rewatching them, I was like, maybe it's Selyem Dahl. Like, maybe it's the actor playing Muhammad because, like, I don't know. There's just like, it's a character that is so broad and he's, and it's nothing, there's nothing like necessarily subtle about his performance. And yet it is still profoundly emotionally affected. And it's also just like from a desk, all of episode three, he's really the only other main character in episode three, and it's just him on the phone.

Yeah. I guess, like William and Harry are also on the phone. And they're kind of like juxtaposed. But no, I agree. Because it could be such a one-dimensional character. And I think certainly, as the years went on, at least his press portrayal, was pretty one-dimensional. And he didn't do himself any favors necessarily.

No, but I think the media didn't either. And the royal family, like, didn't. And so I think Salim Daugh is able to suggest in a very proper way, like all of the, like, the cocktail of emotions of not just like grief and ambition and, you know, and pride and love and regret. And there is a lot simmering there, which it is hard to do when you're just like given some phone calls. And then, and then he also gets episode four, which is, I guess. So, you know, the, the, the craft. happens. And it's basically, in a lot of ways, episodes one, two, three are sort of, are like a trio because episode three ends with the same guy walking his dog. And you kind of know what's coming. And in episode four picks up. And it's called aftermath. And it picks up instantaneously. But this is why I was thinking when we discussed like why they put the dog walking at the beginning of episode one. This is why I was thinking it was a signal to people who haven't studied this as much as you and I have. Because as soon as you see the dog, walk out of the back of the building.

If you're not tuned into like what happened, you know, minutes before the crash, whatever, you're the viewer like, oh, here we are. Right. Yeah. It's like, I guess we didn't even mention like the episode three does show the driver on Riepal drinking his like, I believe it's called Ricard, which is like a European past, a French pastis, which he'd had several of. I mean, he was absolutely intoxicated while, and he was called in last minute.

So it's like, you know, they do a close up. like an insert shot of the Ricard. And I was like, oh, it's the record. But you're right. Like, who else would know? So they are handing over that information. Before we get to episode four, I mean, that last shot, that last episode before they get to the dog walker, ends with the scene of Diana and Doty waiting in like a back exit room, back hallway to take the back exit because they had this whole deal.

decoy thing. And like even the framing of that shot was like CCTV. And, you know, on the one hand as like a meta investigation of the fact that I could recognize that. I mean, and we've, we've established that I'm on an unhealthy person and have studied this too much. But, you know, it is sort of on the one hand, I was like, wow, this is like really interesting meta commentary on making this show and how we're, and media and how we're familiar with these things and the fact that I can recognize that and be like, well, I don't know if you should have recreated it. Well, like, well, I don't know if I should have seen it at 45,000 times, you know? And to examine the feelings that you have while looking at it are like, for me, at least we're like interesting intellectually. I don't know whether that is

how most people are watching it. I think most people are just watching like a recreation of CCTV footage that maybe they saw or maybe they did it. Yeah. I, um, I think it's an interesting exercise for them to be like to see, to have that footage available and know that plenty of people have seen it. And to say, okay, how can we make the gestures that happen here, the arm around her, the whatever that happens in this hallway? How can you make that align with the narrative that we are spinning for these characters? But like, you know, the shot of their hands being clasped in the car in the back seat as they take off. That's an interesting choice. I was just like, are we doing direct Thelma and Louise here?

Oh, I didn't thought about that comp. It was my instant thought. And I was like, huh, is that intentional or is that my American brain? That might be a slight American brain. And also my Ridley Scott brain. It is Sir Ridley's season as well. It is. It is indeed.

Something I thought was interesting is they don't really, I for sure thought they were going that direction because they call up by name this one member of the security team, Trevor, who's with them. Trevor's in the car. And Trevor's the only one who survived. the crash. And I sort of expected because they call his name out a couple times in the episode, like in a very sort of pay attention to this character kind of way, I sort of thought we would have something with him after the crash, but we don't, you know? Like I don't think, I don't even,

I'm not even sure people watching these episodes, like, in a sort of idle way, will notice that anyone survived the crash other than, you know, like at all. Right. Well, I guess I do wonder whether they're going to go back to the inquest because the inquest went on for many years and I think was finally like resolved in 2007, which is 10 years later. So and after the stated end of the show. So you wonder. That's a good question. Whether he'll come back because he was the only survivor of the crash. The other thing that they totally sidestep is the, it's a very interesting way that they show.

the photographers and the, um, they can't show the crash. Well, they can't. Well, I mean, they could, but they don't. Which is a thousand percent the right decision. And they also don't really show the photographers interacting with the crash, which I think is, um, their right decision because that's just like, that's gruesome. But that is a thing that happened that was pretty well covered. Um, and that is certainly an element of this event and how we talk about. And that is a thing that talk about the media and how we talk about how this was covered and understood and even quote unquote who is responsible, which was, you know, the, the quote unquote purpose of the inquest. So they, I did know that they were just like, we're not, we're not really going near that.

It is so bone chilling to me to know that like, however consciousness he was, this woman, semi-conscious, grievously injured, no, like is being surrounded by flashbulbs going off. Like, that's just horrifying part of the final minutes of her life. And that is deemed to be so gruesome that they can't show it, which I, you know, I agree. And I'm also like, but then you're also making a show about like everything that happened. You know, there's, I don't know. It's, I, this one, I don't know if you can ever have like the true moral high ground on this one. But they don't show it except for when the Mohammed character goes.

goes to the crash site. And so, and he's shown praying there while people take photographs of him, which I actually thought was like a, I mean, it's like an okay, you know, that at least gives you a sense of what the scene was like, so I understand that. But yeah, this leads us in the episode four, which is aftermath and basically to the rest of the characters, because like I said, okay, it was a character episode, not a bottle episode. I'm sorry, Joanna. And then.

The only reason I'm saying is because, like, I've got. I got really snippy about it when we covered The Last of Us. And I didn't want people to be like, why isn't Joanna on her bottle episode pedestal? Soapbox, rather. It's because I love Amanda and we are new to podcast together and I don't want to expose you to the like. Okay. Do you want to tell me what happened on the Last of Us episode? No, no, not necessarily.

And you never need to watch that show. That is fine. No, it's just like technically, sorry, technically a bottle episode is like one location. filmed because, usually for budgetary reasons. So, like, everyone trapped in an elevator episode or something like that of television. You're right. You're right. And people use bottle episode the way you do to mean, like, contained around certain characters or whatever.

I just got, like, really for no good reason, shirty about it when people were trying to do that with this last of us episode, which is not technically a bottle episode. It's just a character encapsulation. I accept. And this wasn't, you know, there's like zipping around Paris. though was it filmed in one location with CGI? We, I don't know. I have some notes on CGI in episode four. CGI watch.

All right, okay, cool. So let's just say it right now because the first shot is Balmoral Castle and a light going on in the middle of the night. Because it really, episode three goes straight in episode four. Yeah. Snoring, gasping during sleep, feeling fatigued, ask your doctor about zebbound, terse appetite. The first and only FDA approved prescription medicine for moderate to severe obstructive sleep apnea, OSA, and adults with obesity.

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everything. That's why Ali's science back support is made with a blend of melatonin and L-Dienine for both kiddos and grown-ups. So when your mind won't switch off, you've got something that can help. You're racing thoughts and restless nights won't stand a chance. Find Ollie Sleep Solutions for the whole family at ollie.com. That's OLLLY.com. Yeah, the Balmoral Castle, CGI is just not good. It's not good.

It has never been good. It has always looked fake. And it's even more frustrating to me because they filmed the queen. Do you know what I mean? Like, they filmed the queen at some real location standing in. So it's like we knew, we didn't even have to go location scouting. Like, we could have done it or, you know, whatever, whatever.

You could have reused scenes. Anyway, it looks really fake, but that's fine. They're at Balmoral, the aperture widens. And so we're getting both the Scotland and really like the night and week after from the perspective of the royal family and then also from the perspective of of Muhammad Fayyad. Do you think, because

something that happens in episode three that we didn't talk about is that like Will, who's so shy and sad that even Princess Anne notices, like, gets taken out does this hunting thing gets blooded? Right, right, right, gets blooded. Yeah.

The only reason I'm bringing it up is like, do you, how sad do you think Peter Morgan was that he couldn't make the timeline line up that William takes that shot right when like Diana goes into the tunnel. Do you know what I mean? Like don't you think that's what he wanted? But that that's in the daytime and Diana is like,

you know, in the nighttime? I also like to think that Peter Morgan is self-conscious enough to know that that would be gilding the lily in a disrespectful way. And also like... I just feel like he's never met a lily he didn't guild on the crown, honestly. Especially when it comes to stashire. which is his favorite metaphor.

Favorite. He just loves it. See also Diana's introduction into the royal family in season four. She goes out with Philip, played by Tomias Benzies, which was just a way better Philip, in my opinion. But that's not Jonathan Price's fault. That's just the writing. And maybe age as a concept in time, not Jonathan Price's age. You know, it's great to grow old as I learn every day.

Anyway, they go out. Uh-huh. They shoot a stag. Diana helps. She's like, no, no, no, you got to do it this way. And so it's sort of like her induction. Yeah. And she gets the approval of the entire family, like, if not of Charles.

And so, like, there is a real interacting with a stag and your power and dynamic and relationship with a stag is Peter Morgan's shorthand for your place in the family and your place in. A rite of passage. Yeah, it's a right of passage and also kind of like what you want to take on with or what you are taking on or where you are in the royal family because he also uses it famously in the queen. I believe it was Helen Mirren's Oscar Cliff is just her standing there. Oh, was it? I think so. Yeah, that sounds right. Except, God, Oscar Clip.

Are you pro Oscar Clips? Are you anti-oscler clip? Yeah, they take so much time and it's just like always people screaming, you know? And I'm like, I feel like it is always just like the, you know, the Vince and Hannah, they knew montage that they play on rewatchables. Yeah. I feel like it's just that in every category. And then it takes a lot of time. And then it's, you know, 1145 at night and I'm pissed off.

But that's just one Oscar commentator's opinion. Anyway. Yeah. In the queen. Yes. She kind of, she's been going through it, you know, for a week. she's off her square and then she goes on a walk

and she like stares at a stag with many points which is how they count their antlers and it's like a meeting of the minds and it's like regal be you know we are both like hunted but we also have natural dignity and we can respect each other

and it's like maybe a little stand in for Diana and it's maybe a little stand in for that it's just kind of like a moment of recognition and then she like goes back and gives a speech. Agree to give the speech. And then also that someone else hunts this stag.

And so she has one more minute where she like greets it in death. Anyway, so it's like a very big deal and very significant that William is getting blooded in this moment. And that is really how they introduce William as like an actual character on the show. And then that's in episode three. And then episode four, he is sort of the focus of at least the between him and Harry of like his reactions and how he's processing this. And more him than Harry, I would say. Yes. Yeah.

It becomes like, it's clear. It's like here starts the William season. And so I would say that that is one of the, like the two main differences between aftermath and the queen, the Peter Morgan film, is the focus on the boys and the inclusion of Moomu, Muhammad Al-Fayad. And the absence of Tony Blair, because Tony Blair is like the second lead of of the queen, right? It's like, I would say it goes like, Elizabeth, Tony Blair, and Charles are like the three leads of the queen

and they just take, Tony, like, he's in the periphery, obviously, but he's like taken out of the equation here. And his conversations with Michael Sheen as Tony Blair and Helen Mirren as Elizabeth, like their conversations are an important factor in this decision she makes. And I think it's interesting for Peter Morgan

to be like, okay, what are the other factors? Is it the ghost of Diane? I mean, the memory version of Diana, which like, I'm not mad about the way that some people are, but I'm just sort of like, okay, that's interesting. Well, okay. So, yeah, let's talk about memory Diana and memory Doty. Yeah. Because those are another way. I wrote in, we started this episode by me just being like, this is like the queen again, but meaner.

Yeah. I mean, and it is in a lot of ways they focus on the exact same time period, which is like from Diana's death, like all the way up into the speech that the queen finally gave on live TV in London on, I believe, like the Friday before the funeral. And so it's like same time period, same reticence, same central conflict of like there has been this personal crisis, but what will be the public response and what does it mean? But the emphasis instead of being, as you noted on Tony Blair and particularly the queen, is really on Charles, William and Mohammed, like the people who have lost someone instead of, And I guess it is more personal as opposed to the outward political stuff.

And so as a result, the queen is portrayed as a lot more unfeeling, I personally think, or less able to control, like, her feelings or her reaction or her discomfort or, you know. She looks positively warm in comparison to Philip, who is like, might as well be, They just made him a total dick. I mean, I guess he was. Like, we have plenty of evidence for it. But it's sad, you know, there was like a Lisa warmth to wait the way that Matt Smith and Tobias Menzies got to play him that seems to have gone with age. And, I mean, I suppose his whole, like, talking to William as they're walking, like, you know, put one foot in front of the other focus on the walking, like, all that sort of stuff.

Like, that is something. But, like, it is, it is, I guess the, there's a close, a cold. closing of the ranks from Philip, whereas he, like, in previous seasons, sort of tried to connect with Diana and then maybe felt like that all went poorly or he was betrayed by it. So then it was just like, let's just circle the wagons tightly around this family. And these are the only people who get the benefit of my good graces. And it's not even really, Charles. It's just the boys. And I mean, and I think that's, when you look at the speech that the queen gave that they cover here and they cover in the crown, you know, she says as a grandmother, right? Like, that's, that's, that's,

That's a thing that she said. And so I think that that is something that, like, they really want to make sure that they emphasize in both of these. But what I love about this, and we talked about this before, I think, in our sort of pre-cap episode, is this idea of, like, Elizabeth has a somewhat doting grandmother and a terrible mother. And how that can often be the case of, like, you know, we just saw Elizabeth give more love at attention to a corgi than to Charles himself when he was like, love, mommy, love. You know? And. Which, by the way, he does again, in episode four, they have their, like, annual.

Why can't you love me? Why can't you be a mom? And it's, like, coded through what does the country need? And he's just being like, love, support, attention, care. You know, he's just like yelling at her for, like, being a mom. Not being a mom. Be the country's mother, you know, even if you can't be my mother. But, like, she's like, I'm well focused on being a grandmother, you know, to these boys.

And it's like, yeah, she, this happens. all the time. The parents are not good at being parents, but they're like, have this do-over as grandparents. And so she's like, the instinct to, like, protect the boys, ensconce them in the privacy of Balmoral to put all the, you know, I was reading an interview that Harry gave recently. I don't think it was in his book. I think it was an interview where he was talking about, he was like, how lucky they were that there wasn't, like, internet and cell phones, stuff like that. So they didn't, like, they couldn't, like, keep track of everything that was going on. They were just sort of like protected from it and how he was grateful for that. So like, you know,

there is that. Yeah. Harry's version of everything in this episode four in the book is quite different. God, I hated that book so much. In spare? You're not a spare fan? No? I mean, I just like, I was thinking that about this. I generally don't know how you ever move past something as traumatic as what like Harry in particular goes through and which I think they show. in episode four. But, like, you know, he was a tiny kid. He loses his mom. He barely understands.

They make him walk behind that thing. The whole world is staring at them. I genuinely don't know how you ever get over that. I think you can only, like, you know, find coping mechanisms. But also, like, the person who were at spare is, like, not someone that I would want to spend any time with. So, you know, I have a lot of empathy and also, like, yikes. Anyway. Can I ask you a hairy question?

Have you always been like, I don't know, since the whole Megan Harry thing kicked off, let's say, have you always been like anti-Herry or was it really a spare? No, it was really spare, honestly. And I was always like, you know, my main thing is I understand why it didn't work out, but it's like kind of a shame they left because I think they would have been really good at the jobs of being members of the royal family. You know, that seems like suited to them, which was like there was an apparatus in place where they could just go and be charismatic and, you know, unveil curtains at places that work on issues that are important to them, but they don't really have to bring any deeper infrastructure, which they sort of seem incapable of doing on their own.

So I think they would have been really great royals, and I was like a real fan of it. And it also seemed like they were completely miserable. And like I said, I don't know if you're Harry how you ever get over the tragedy of losing your mother. or the way you did it and paparazzi think. So, like, I get it. And I think I had empathy for them, even though I felt they were, like, slightly annoying. And then I read Spare. And I was just like, oh, this person just seems like a really bad hang.

You know, like, I just, and I don't blame it against him, but it just, I mean, there's like a hundred pages of him just, like, bragging about killing people on Afghanistan with one paragraph of self-reflection. Do you know what I mean? And I was like, well, this is, this is, this is, this is, this is. That's, that was like a tough one. But, you know, it's important to have empathy as this show treats us. And I do think episode four to bring it back, look at me, segwing.

Amazing. Like, you know, and episode three, like illustrates, I mean, it's, how do you get over any of this stuff? How, if you were Diana? I mean, episode three is shot like a horror movie in terms of like the paparazzi and the public attention and the thing lurking. And it does, as someone who has been. like a lifelong consumer of paparazzi photographs, it puts you on the other side in like a pretty visceral way. And I, and then, you know, episode four, I thought the crowds, the CGI crowds were the worst CGA I've ever seen. And I was like really angry. But this, like, why are you get, just don't do it.

You know, if you don't have the technology, don't do it. But, and also because it makes like, what is still one of the status and most messed up. things I've ever seen, like, look cheap and kind of corny, you know? So I think that got away from him, but I also, you watch it and you're just like, I don't know, you were 12. How are you ever going to get over that? How are you ever going to get over it? I don't know. There's, so in 2017, the princes did, like, there was like a documentary where they gave interview, like, in-depth interviews about this day, about Diana, et cetera. And William, that the part in the end of Episode 4, William says, like, they don't even know her, right?

That comes from this interview where William, William in 2017 says, I did feel a bit protective at times about her. I was like, you didn't even know her. Why and how are you so upset? Now, looking back over the last few years, I've learned to understand what it was she gave the world in a lot of people. Prince Harry added, the way that people were grabbing us and pulling us into their arms, I don't blame anyone for that.

Of course, I don't. But it was those moments that were quite shocking. So this idea of being like grabbed at and having your grief, your very young grief, like co-opted by these people. And like, you know, you and I of a certain age, certainly guilty of this. I'm not absolving myself of this. But like when Philip says they're not crying for her, they're crying for you. Again, that it signals you were right to point out. I think this transference of the season from a Diana season to a William season and what that's going to be going forward.

But this idea of like that transference of because William Lerner, looked so much like Diana. This just immediate transference of the, of, and this idea of the people's princess was just this like lovely name to call her, but there's also this idea in this episode and in episode three when she's been chased through the streets, not by paparazzi, but by people, just by fans, led by two, you know, teen girls. Right. That like, they feel she belongs to them.

You know, she's like the people's princess in a positive way, but the people's princess in that they like tried to take her, you know, and hold her and possess her. And the way in which that is transferring to William and Harry in that moment. And the other transfer moment is like this pretty appalling but also perceptive speech. And from Charles, which is like maybe a good way to talk about Charles in this episode, which is like he's confronting his parents one of many times. and he says, you know, and they're just trying to be like, why are you making us, this is a private matter and she wasn't a member of the family? The way that Amelda Stanton says divorced is truly chilling. On purpose, I know, but it's just like, it makes me really angry every time, which I'm like, oh, this is really good acting. Anyway, and Charles responds, I admit I let her down in life, but I won't let her down in death.

We can't have it both ways. We can't be a private family when we want to be in a public one when it suits us. This is real, like, just, like, put the thesis in the character's mouth thing, but whatever. Time and time again, we've tried to have it both ways we can't, and it's time, William learned that. Yes, he's a shy boy, but he's also a future king. And when his mother dies and people grieve, he has to behave like one. And then Dominic West and Imelda Staten, like, exchange some looks that you just, like, see the parent has become the, you know, the child has become the parent and the ex-pa. Yeah.

It's very complicated. I thought very well acted, very messed up, you know, and this is like the other central theme of the show, which is, you know, public and private, duty and, and emotion and the, like, inevitability of these things. And it's like in that moment, it's like coming for William. And William is like outside listening at the door and then runs away for 14 hours in the rain. It's tough. Did that happen?

Do you know? I don't know whether it. 14 hours, but he does, he was gone. And on like one of the planning calls, I think Philip gets a tough edit in this episode because one of the anecdotes I remember is like they're droning on and on on the phone calls about like funeral planning or something. And I think he yells at some point, like stop telling us what to do with these boys. And then someone else is like the, maybe Elizabeth is like the only thing we're concerned about right now is that we're like Williams missing. And like, you guys figure that out. So I do think that they were.

like more grandparently than even this. Because like their their insistence on protecting the boys is like presented in this with like a very rigid, non-emotional like don't want to touch this with a 40-foot pole. Like what is this? Which like leads to Elizabeth being voted by being visited by memory slash ghost Diana. Which was like the only, so should we talk about ghost Diana and ghostody, which I reddubbed memory Diana. and Mamary Doty because the concern trolls are just out there being like she's a ghost. And she's not a ghost.

First of all, there's nothing spooky about it. No. It's just like I, this is what TV shows and films do. It's a dramatic recreation of imagining. She looks great. She's styled just like those Mario Testino photos that, you know, were used everywhere. I mean. And it's important.

I think it's important to think of her as memory, Diana. Yeah. Because then everywhere that comes out of her mouth, you have to imagine like Charles puts, there or Elizabeth would put there. It's not what the character Diana would say. This is what Charles is imagining, you know, like her being like, oh, you'd be bedger off without me. So he gets to be like, no, no, no, we wouldn't.

You know, or, you know, with Elizabeth, it's like having Diana say something like, you know, you've taught us for so long how to be British, now let us show you or something like that. It's like, I don't think that's something Diana would say, but it's something Elizabeth. That's like actually literally something that Tony Blair said about Diana in the days after her death. which they then, and that was like the one moment where I raised my hand on, I was like, no, no, no, no, no. You, like, it's too much copy and pasting. I, like, I call BS, but your rate.

Do you think that he, like, took Tony Blair out of the equation because he's like, then I'm just remaking the queen? Like, this is the only way I can think of not remaking my own movie. I think that there is, like, a self-consciousness about, like, we can't do this. And so we got to do it another way. Now, as someone who's seen the queen, like, a lot of times, and has read all of this stuff. It's actually really fascinating to have the alternate versions, you know,

and for him to be like, okay, what am I trying to say with this versus that? Yeah. And I interpret it as like he is trying to do the Charles and really the William story and trying to do it in terms of, well, like a little more emotion rather than like the political maneuverings.

Yeah. But like less, it's not the queen. It is the story of how the, next generations and had like the people who lost someone. It's like the princess. Yeah. I mean, it's interesting to me that like, it's funny. I'm fairly generally anti-Charles in general.

But I do have this like soft spot about Charles around, you know, and the facts are the facts that he went and got her body and like all this or stuff like that. Like that all happened. And I honestly think it's like Peter Morgan propaganda working on me, not through this, but through the queen because Alex Jennings as Charles saying very simple. similarly that he failed Diana in life and he won't fail her in death and all that sort of stuff like that is so moving to me in that movie. And I think Dominic West is incredibly good here as well. So I'm just like I have just decided again whether or not that's Peter Morgan propaganda working on me that like at least in this moment in his life, Charles showed up and and, you know.

I think it's both propaganda and relatively based on the facts. You know? Like, I mean, as you said, he did go. I think that he was really, like, wrangling with his family and, like, the institution from the beginning of being like, no, we have to, like, take this seriously. Now, how much of that was self-protection and how much of that was reaction to, you know, like, can you actually untangle those things in real time, like, as a responsive, shock and grief? But he went.

The detail that always stays with me is that when he was at the hospital, he was. he became, and again, I wasn't there. I don't know if it's true, but this is from the Tina Brown book that became very fixated on one of Diana's missing earrings. And he was like, she needs her other earrings. She can't go without her earring, which is like... It's very Thomas Jay needs his glasses to me. It's a my girl trigger, honestly.

Yeah, but it's like it's, you know, like that, that hits me in the stomach a little bit. That is so specific. And it's kind of interesting that they didn't go with that particular. detail. I, like, I, you know, I don't know why, but, because it is, it's pretty, like, novelistic to me. But, uh, instead, Dominic West just, like, really cries, which, like, I don't know. Does Charles, like, really sob like that? I'm not totally sure. I was reading some Dominic West interviews. He is very pro Charles. Apparently, like, his wife is, like, friends with Charles and stuff like that. Um, and he said something about how, like, he's, like, my interpretation

of Charles is that he's, like, behind closed doors, he's just, like, a big softie and, like, all the sort of stuff like that. He was like, and then Harry's book came out, Amanda's favorite book, Spare came out. And when Harry's like, oh, he never, like, hugged us or kissed us or anything like that, he's like, so then we had to like dial it back a bit, I guess. But then like, he still does in this episode. You know, he's all kilted out, but he's still like, you know, hugging and kissing the boys. So I'm like, it's, yeah.

Yeah, Charles is getting a complimentary watch. It's a good at it, as they say. Yeah, yeah. Even as he is shown, like, putting Will into the position of, um, having to walk. You have to do this. Yeah. In terms of like putting the thesis inside the mouth of a character or gilding a lily or saying the metaphor out loud or whatever we want to accuse Peter Morgan of, the one that broke me was when Charles was on the phone with Camilla and he says this is going to be the biggest thing any of us have ever seen people have no idea. And I'm like, okay, okay. They also, that's like copy and pasted from the queen. I think like Charles literally says that in the queen, which it's interesting. I mean, I, I mean, I. I would imagine that this maybe even more than her death was like the thing that Peter Morgan was dreading the most.

Because it's like it's hard to do something twice. It's like reheating a souffle, you know? And it's he had ideas about it. And I guess maybe like as a like as a filmmaker, his ideas have changed as he's gone through these six seasons. And so it was like an interesting exercise. Intellectually it's interesting. I would say that I found episode four like both. sad and kind of and effectively mean-spirited and also kind of like I don't know if I needed you to

remake the queen. I've already seen this. Yeah. Yeah. Like I've already, I've already seen it better. It's unavoidable. I just don't think, and with love and respect, and it's a tough position he found himself in, but like I just don't think he had enough new things to say about a story that he had already masterfully done. Yeah. You know what I mean? And at least it's only like one episode and we can like roll forward from there. Yeah. The one other new thing that I, that I appreciated seeing and I thought was an idea and is also explored in memory Doty's appearance to his dad. That's what I want to talk about.

You know, Mohammed Fayyad and the Fayyad family are not in the queen. And as they note, they're not in any of the Western newspaper coverage. It's as, as, as if only one person died. And to see his grief, to see. Doty's burial to see that, you know, as Doty says to him, you have to stop looking up to the West, or yeah, you shouldn't look up to the West is what he says. And so to acknowledge just like the completely one-sided portrayal of everything that happened when there were several people who died was like I thought like a new and thought provoking.

and like an effective part of the episode. I agree. I think the Doty stuff and the Dodi Muhammad stuff is the most additive that exists in this episode. And I also love the thing that memory Doty says about like, let's be honest about who I was. You know what I mean? Yeah. But then, you know, it also like allows then the Mumu character to be like, you were perfect. I love you.

You know, it just like an expression of that tangle of grief, denial, emotion. and they you don't you you don't really get from any of the other characters I guess you do like I found the Charles and Diana memory stuff to be not believable but like very charming even from when she like she enters with like the ta-da yeah that was very charming

very charming and I think that like and I found maybe in contrast to the terrible CJA crowd the her exit from Paris was very effective to me. But to go back, you know, I was talking in our last episode about how they make Diana, make it seem like Charles is the love of Diana's life and that. So she's all caught up on the bar.

And you were like, is it that or is it that she lost or whatever? And I realized that one of the things that was feeding it for me was when she says, as memory Diana, you know I loved you so much. And then I was just like, oh, but that's Charles's idea of who Diana is. So, okay, it's interesting. Yeah. Yeah. No, but I think I thought of your observation when I was rewatching it.

And I was like, no, they are really, they're pairing it back. They're making it more like sort of like a classical, like, you know, love triangle and playing that unrequited love, you know, tragedy part of it as well. I think you were right to observe that. But I don't know. It worked and I'm really glad that these four episodes are over. Do you feel like we needed four episodes worth of this? I think we could have, well, I think we could have done it in three.

I think so, too. But I think that they wanted as much Diana as they could get. I get it. And I think Dubicki is great as Diana. And, like, I understand why they did it. And I understand why they had to do episode four because, like, you know, just like functionally in terms of setting up William as the next person. And I assume, like, real. And I also just don't think you can tell the story of Elizabeth.

and not tell the story of that speech she gave about Diana, you know, like you have to. So did you have to recreate it? You're like, I've seen Helen Mirren do it. Helen, like, we saw the real one. We saw Helen Mirren do it. Yeah. And also they recreate it just to include the walk with the terrible CGI, which I'm just like, I'm really, I'm really, really mad about crowd scenes in, in modern filmmaking, TV and movies.

Let me ask you a question. How much does COVID play into that? I'm sure a lot. Yeah. They just stopped doing them. And then someone, maybe the creator of Ted Lassow, told them that they had the technology to make fake crowds. Oh, I hate those Ted Lassow crowds. And now everyone is just like, oh, sure, we'll just do that.

It looks awful. We don't have the technology. I'm with you. I'm with you. It's not there. It's not good. It's not acceptable. I don't accept.

So I thought that was particularly bad use of CGI and recreating. And so bad, in fact, that they do the queen thing of then cutting to the real footage, which is one of the only times I can remember in the Crowns run where they pipe in the real footage in the episode itself rather than in epilogue. I think because it's just so, it's so astounding. It's just like it, like, I'll never, I'll never forget it. I'll never forget watching it. It was absolutely heartbreaking. Can I ask you the really cliche?

question? Like, where were you when you found out that Diana had died? I vividly remember. I was in Knoxville, Tennessee, visiting my Aunt Betty. And we had turned on the TV for S&L because I was like, I would have been 97. So I just turned 13. And it was like a big deal that I could stay up to 1130 when I was like visiting, you know, my cool aunt and uncle. And instead of S&L, we got like live news coverage. Oh my God. Yeah. Where were you? Well, my memory. And maybe I have. it wrong because I don't know like I don't know what time we because like you found out that's how you found out about the crash. I'm not sure what time we found out about like her death. Yeah. Well, I think 1130 Tennessee would have in California. Yeah, you're right. But so I because she

dies around 430 and I don't remember how quickly the announcements were made. But I think I was watching it in real time. Yeah. I was I was in my dad's car. I know. And we like we were driving somewhere. You know, it was like the tail end of summer. Right. And we were driving out to, like, I think, like, and this makes me sound way more bougie than I am, but like a clam bake by a beach or something like that. Anyway, I was in my dad's car. And we heard it on the radio.

And I was just like, holy shit. Yeah. Yeah. And then I watched it all week. I remember watching the funeral, like, you know, that was like live broadcast. I mean, it was, it really was like the only thing that was happening that week in a way that just the world does not really understand.

We don't even. Yeah, we don't linger in news stories that way anymore. I mean, I guess like the only comparison would be, and it wasn't even this, because from my perspective, the vibes were slightly better. But the week of the Biden-Trump election, where we didn't know officially until Saturday, and it was like all we were.

You know what I mean? I was just like had MSNBC on. I like logged on to Steve Kornacki like every night, you know? And it's like and it was like a Tuesday like to a Saturday where it was all you talked about, all you. But that's like the only it like I mean 9-11, but like we don't need to talk about 9-11 right now. We don't. We don't really need to talk about it in the next chunk of crown episodes. I just, I want them to skip.

We just we don't need it. You know? Don't do it. I'm very curious to see how to do it. Or do a side, whatever. Yeah, I mean. Aye, yeah, yeah. All right.

First four episodes, how did you, we could have done three, but you feel okay? Yeah, I mean, the eyes are really good. I mean, it does kind of mush together, though, in my brain in a way that the crown episode, like, one through three kind of mushed in my brain in a way that the crown episodes usually don't. But I understand them wanting to get it. Yeah, and I just, I think, Debicki as Diana is like an all-timer. performance. It's similarly amazing to the way that I feel about Claire Foy as Elizabeth. You know what I mean? That's just like an all-timer performance for me. So like, yeah, I'm grateful to have it. I'll be curious. I'm so curious to see what the final six look like. And I read somewhere, oh, it was in VF coverage seemingly confirming that they are doing Camilla and Charles's wedding. So you were right to guess that. But yeah. That would make sense. It's also like that that's like because they did it. it was like a private ceremony and then like a chapel blessing, but it wasn't like a full on spectacle so they could recreate it.

You know what I mean? Without like running out. CGI crowds. I will show up at the Netflix offices and start yelling. We had just as a society got to start writing different stories. But anyway, I'm looking forward to it. How about you? How about you, these four episodes?

I'm still just really surprised that this is the way that they did it. And I think that. they were well done. I will sit with my feelings about watching it all recreated and my hesitation at it. And I'm curious to see how like the good, like the good faith reactions roll out over the weekend. I'm not listening to the nonsense. You know, like the, the tabloids, as we have learned, like have a whole outrage machine around this and, and that's how they make money. But whatever. But, you know, I don't, I don't know. Maybe I'm, I'm curious. with someone who doesn't remember as much as I do or didn't live through it as we do,

as we did in whatever way we did, responds to it. So I, you know, I'm curious. And then, and then I'm excited, I'm excited, honestly, for some more traditional crown in the back half of the season, you know? Like, we have to have a, like, we get a Margaret episode every season, right? So, like, we got to get my Margaret episode off. Like, you know. Although is that, like, going to be when she dies? Probably, but, like. I don't think you hire Leslie Manville to just sit like in the background of a few scenes. The last year of Margaret's life was like really sad. So I guess that's good drama.

But I don't know. I would just love for like a royal painter who like was also raised corgis or something to have an episode. Do you know what I mean? Yeah. And when they just get to talk about that, I don't know. We'll see. We'll be back in December. We will.

You'll be here in the meantime. With the curse. and perhaps a few other things. Yeah. I heard there's a micro penis on the curse. There is a micropenus on the curse. Okay. That's when I knew I probably would never watch the curse.

That's when I knew. That's when I also knew you would probably never watch the curse. I was just like, wow, it seems like, is it like a micropenus support group? It's no. Spoilers for the curse, I suppose. Okay. Main character has a micropenus. Okay.

Nathan Fielder has a micropinus. And then his father-in-law also has, it's not clear. if it's micro, but also has like a small. So they have a whole conversation about what it's like to be thusly endowed, you know? It's a great pairing with the crown, I think. I look forward to listening to your episodes of Prestage TV while never actually watching that show, which is the thing that I regularly do. Joanna will be here and we will see you all in December.

Thank you to our producer, Sasha Ashe, who will also, I hope, be back in December, even though we spoiled these first four episodes to her. She's been a great sport. Thank you. Thank you to everyone for listening. Happy Thanksgiving. We'll see you soon. This episode is brought to you by Netflix's remarkably bright creatures.

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