The Prestige TV Podcast - ‘The Crown’ Series Finale

Episode Date: December 20, 2023

Jo and Amanda return for their final word on ‘The Crown.’ They go character by character through the last three episodes of Season 6 to explore what Peter Morgan is really trying to say about the British monarchy, and recap their favorite moments like Claire Foy’s cameo and shirtless Matt Smith. Hosts: Joanna Robinson and Amanda Dobbins Producer: Sasha Ashall Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Galaxy lights, Coachella, Lightning Bolt necklaces. 20203 was the year of Scandival. On March 3rd, one cheating scandal launched a reality TV investigation that generated hundreds of conspiracy theories, thousands of podcast episodes, and millions of dollars in revenue. I'm Jody Walker, host of an American Scandival. One retrospective story told in three salacious parts. Listen, December 26th on the Ringer Reality Feudel. feed.

Hello, welcome back into the Prestige TV podcast. Me and I'm Joanna Robinson. And this is the very last episode covering the crown probably ever. Amanda Dobbins is here with me. Hello, Amanda. How are you? I'd like to think that at some point after like a respectable period of time, we can come back and talk about the good times.

You know, I had a little bit of open time before we started recording. And I thought it would be a nice thing to throw on episode one season one of the crown. Wolverton Splash. What a wonderful show. What a special experience. So, you know, maybe one day we will get to revisit the crown in its glory. Spoiler alert. I don't think that we're going to be doing a ton of that today. Well, I will say, I mean, I disagree. Two of these three episodes, yeah, okay, I really like. I agree. I mostly agree with you. I mostly agree.

We can talk about the ways we agree or disagree, but we are covering episodes 8 through 10. So, Ritz, directed by Alex Gabassi, written by Mariel Chavani Claire and Peter Morgan, Hope Street. That's the one I didn't much care for, directed by Eric Richter Strind, written by Jonathan Wilson and Peter Morgan, and Sleep, Deary Sleep, the series finale of the Crown,

directed by Stephen Daljury and written by Peter Morgan. So some big guns here right at the end of the crown. We're going to start with Ritz, unless there's anything else you want to say about sort of the overview of these three episodes, this final run. I agree with you two out of three work. You know, this is coming off the episode that we did on the podcast episode we did on the television episodes, five through seven of season six,

which I think were probably the low point of this season. if not the series. Yeah. And I agree that these last three episodes are the crown coming back home to the characters and the themes that it is good at. There are a lot of references to previous episodes and scenes that I found very moving. Like the performances, especially when you have the major players back front and center, are very moving.

You know, there is like a central flaw in the last three episodes and the season, but there's not that much you can do about it. I, you know, I guess we can, we'll talk about them. I put them in order in the outline because with episode eight, you kind of get Margaret's send off episode, episode nine, you tie up some of the more Will and Kate stuff. And then episode 10 is like the, like, a official traditional goodbye to Elizabeth and to the finale. So I guess it, like, it makes sense to go in order. just because then we lead up to Elizabeth and the finale, which is appropriate.

Yeah, we're going like, as we usually do, we're kind of going by character, but to Amanda's point, that kind of just takes us chronologically through the episodes anyway. So we're going to start with Margaret, and as we talked about in the last chunk of episodes, Leslie Manville has been, she had a lovely, I would say half of an episode last season. Right, with Timothy Dalton. With Timothy Dalton. and then has like mostly just been background slinging dry witticisms and not really part of the show very much at all. But we were like, surely do not hire Leslie Manville to just sort of stand in the background.

And so, of course, we get this final showcase for the character of Margaret, who has been, you know, I would say in the first two seasons the co-lead of the show, I would say more so than even Philip. and has just been this constant chaotic joy to revisit throughout all the seasons, Vanessa Kirby, Helena Bonham Carter, Leslie Menville, all tremendous actresses. And as I, we talked about this in the first half of the season back when we were covering Diana stuff. And I told you that I was like, well, I think we're getting a Margaret episode. And you pointed out, you were like, yeah, the end of Margaret's life was so sad and awful. like, is that going to be something I want to watch? And so the very clever thing that I did is yes,

Leslie Manville is here to take us through the many, like, physical torments that Margaret went through at the end of her life, the burning and the strokes and everything that happens. But it is paired with this like really beautiful flashback story to young Margaret and young Elizabeth going to the wits, which is an embellishment of something real that happened. And also just a really beautiful celebration or, yeah, of these sisters and their connection. And it gives us, through her departure, cracks into another layer of Elizabeth. I didn't even know that we had another layer of Elizabeth

necessarily to get into in these final three. What did you think of this episode? What did you think of Leslie Manville's performance? All of that. Oh, Leslie Manville's amazing. And it's great that she gets a moment to shine and I think it's a credit to her and to the writing that even through some tough scenes, because Margaret, the real-life Margaret and the Margaret in this show suffers a series of

increasingly debilitating strokes at the end of her life. And it is a, I thought, like an accurate and an affecting episode about like the indignities of illness and the indignities of the end of your life and applying indignity to a character like Margaret is, you know, it heightens, heightens that in moving and also funny ways. You know, the quote, I'd rather die than do exercise is just, like, wonderful. And she's getting one-liners to the end. So Leslie Menville, of course, can handle both, like, the physical representation of those strokes and without getting, like, too caricatory, I think.

And then also conveys the emotional stuff. And then I thought, you know, it was a lovely, it was certainly like a rose-tented view of the Elizabeth Margaret relationship, which I, you want to have at the end of someone's life. It's a celebration of a part of Elizabeth's life that we spent a lot of time with in the first couple seasons and that clearly meant a lot to her. And it's, you know, in a lot of ways, like saying goodbye to a part of Elizabeth Windsor, who is the pre-Queen Elizabeth. That'll come back up. And, you know, it's also, the flashbacks are to VE Day, 1945, where Elizabeth and Margaret famously, and this is a true story, they famously, like, were, got to leave the palace

late that night and, like, mingle with the crowds. Ascorded by a larger coterie than just, like, port- she and, you know. And the guy that Margaret would start having an affair with, Peter Townsend. Townsend, yeah. And also, like, it's, to the best of my knowledge and to the best of, like, the many fictional imaginings of this night that I have watched for whatever reason, including the 2015 film, a Royal Night Out.

Like, I don't know what to say. It was on a plane. I have also seen a Royal Night Out. You are not alone of this. Like, you know, we can only be ourselves at some point. So the Ritz is not, it doesn't fact. in any other retellings of this story. I think they just kind of like cheered in the crowd, but they did, you know.

I read an accounting where they did go to the Ritz, but it wasn't like we went to the Ritz and jitterbugged in the basement with a bunch of American soldiers. It was like, they were like, we did the Lampford Walk. You know, they did like a bunch of like dorky dances, not sexy fun club dances. Right, a couple things. Number one, the Ritz is like two blocks from Buckingham Palace as like, as best I recall from my trip to London the summer where I drank. 45 cups of coffee at 7 a.m.

And then, like, did a, like, stood outside by the palace, like, by myself. Is it beautiful day? It's very early. Yeah. I just wandered around. I said, Julia, I live in a lot of selfies of, like, me standing in front of the palace. And then I walked by the Ritz.

So not that. It's, they easily could have made it there. There is also a thing in these flashbacks, Margaret keeps talking about, like, how wild Elizabeth was, like, this one night and they went out. And, like, they just, like, dance in a basement, you know? And that like,

dance in a basement is like a more scandalous sounding version of what they did, which was like, do the jitterbug. But that's cool. It's nice, you know, that people get to cut loose. In this fictionalized version,

Elizabeth makes out with someone to the extent that their gum winds up in her mouth and she's not sure how it got there. They're definitely drinking. And what's interesting about that basement scene is that in addition to like, you know, it's a, I raised half an eyebrow at like, it was like the black American soldier who looted her down there and this other guys like it's

it's from Harlem and I was like okay uh so I had a lot I had like some moments around that but there was also like um like men in drag like it was like this like interesting like you know almost like Vimar Germany sort of vibe down in that basement of the Ritz which again this probably never happened downstairs I'm not even sure the Ritz has it downstairs but um Yeah, I, as a sort of, I like this, we talked about this last episode of the podcast. I like this embellishment, though, because what it means is that to what you were saying earlier, there's a layer of Elizabeth that only Margaret knows. Only Margaret knows, poor she knew, I guess, I suppose Peter Townsend knew, but only those three people knew.

And by episodes end, they're all dead. And so you alluded to this line in the finessexie. that really stopped me in my tracks, delivered by Claire Foy about Elizabeth Windsor being buried. And so I think it's a line from the crown that I'm going to think about, maybe most, is that line from the series finale. And so this idea of like when you lose people, you get to a certain age and you start to lose people who have known you the longest, then you're losing part of yourself at the same time. And so it's just, I really liked that part of it. It works, it only works if it isn't just like two girls went out and sort of like we're prim and proper for a night. It only works if it's like we've never, we've never seen, even in her Claire Foy days, we've never seen Elizabeth do something like this, right?

Right. As an audience. It does also function like a little historically. Like the fact that it's VE day and that you're bringing, you're brought back to like the like post-war British like greatness, which is kind of like the last time that the, you know, you. you know, Britain was the center of the, of the world and successful in that way. And, and, and that Elizabeth in a lot of ways represented a bridge to like that, that different UK. And so you're saying goodbye to an era of Britain that Elizabeth and Margaret represented it as much as you are to these people, which is something that I think has been missing a little bit from season six of the crown,

the tying to like the broader symbolism or historical moments. Yes. I mean, in this episode like 9-11 happens and 9-11 happens and also that's the day that Porchie died so that's that sort of how it's said in

not in 9-11. But yes, not in the towers but just sort of like from the shock of it is the implication here. But like and I you know I love the reading of the letter that like Imogen Stub's characters talking about like you know the person who died 9-11 and stuff like that. But the woman who called her husband always she could say is,

I love you. But like a lot of these big world, you know, Iraq, all this stuff that's happening, you know, we get it on like a snippet that's on the television or a snippet that's on the radio. It's like pretty much all radio broadcasts, which is also marginal and like odd, you know. And so it's like it's almost like versus how I feel like the world events were treated in the first two, first four, you know, seasons. And so it's almost like, and maybe this is intentional, but everything feels smaller than it did in those first seasons when we felt like we were watching this, this, you know, these people and their global impact. Right. If Peter Morgan is trying to make a commentary about the diminishment of the royal family's impact on global events, I can buy that.

But then at the same time, it just doesn't feel as grand and sweeping as it did at the beginning, which is something we've been like feeling all along. Or significant. Yeah. It feels, I mean, I hate to say it, it feels. like a little trashier, a little more tabloid-y when we got into like all the literal tabloid stuff with Diana and the Will and Kate's that we're about to talk about. And so I was talking to someone who about the show and watched this episode and I was talking about how good this episode was.

And he was like, there have been moments of this final season I enjoyed. He's like, but this is the closest the ground has gotten to feeling like drama, like theater theatrical in the way that it did because Peter Morgan is like a, you know, a theater. Yeah, and it's like, and it's structured and You know, that's another thing that we've said all the time is that things in your mind that exist as subtext in the crowd are actually, like, written in a very playlike way, often in the show. But at least it's touching, like, on bigger ideas or themes beyond, I'm mad that my picture was taken, which not to diminish. No, no, no.

But I will get to Harry and Will in a minute. So, you know, and the other thing about throwing it back to like 1945, and they use the same actress who plays young Princess Margaret in previous episodes. And then the young Elizabeth is played by a viola Pridjan. I hope I said that correctly. Anyway, just an uncanny Claire Foy, but 10 years younger experience. That was just like visually, I was like, oh, wow, this is quite. something. For all the, you know, time we spent on the casting decisions we didn't like last podcast episode, I do think it's worth, like, calling out that, like, Bo Gadsden as young Margaret,

who has this, like, uncanny of Vanessa Kirby curve to her mouth. And Viola Predidon as Elizabeth is, like, some of the best young people casting I've ever seen. And I also think they're great. I think they're wonderful. They don't just look it. I think they're also wonderful in their little roles in like Elizabeth's curiosity, Margaret's impetuosity, and then just like the sisters walking back solo in the wee hours of the morning to the palace is just what an incredible thing to have

at the end of this series run, you know? Yeah, absolutely. And it is taking you back to not just these young people, but like the opening episodes of this series that were in a way that feels fitting, and emotional as you get to the series conclusion. And then the way the episode ends is, you know, they're walking to the palace.

They make it to the gates. And the young Elizabeth says, you know, will you come for breakfast? And then it is suddenly Leslie Manville as older Margaret who's answering, you know, and she says, I won't, but I'll always be with you. Yeah. And, you know, beautifully, it's Leslie Manville acting, you know. And then cut to. Vanessa Kirby singing Bewitched Bothered and Bewildered, which was a song that she performed in season one. And it's lovely. I cried. And it's not just what's beautiful about that choice is it's

not just Vanessa Kirby singing. You also Jared Harris as George is singing on there too with her. That scene, I went back and rewatch that scene and I cried too. Yeah, lovely. It's just absolutely beautiful. We want to talk quickly, though, about the speech that Elizabeth gives, the toast that she gives to her sister at the Ritz, trying to cut her off from telling this story, but also genuinely. And again, we talked about this last podcast episode, but this run and run of Elizabeth as this, like, incredible speech giver and, like, wit and, like, all the sort of stuff, which is something we've never quite seen from her and feels a bit invented, but I'm not very mad at it because it's fun to watch. I love that she's like kind of mad at Philip, who's like,

oh, I'm not coming and also, aren't you always worried about Margaret or whatever? And she's like, fine, I'll take my mom and Anne, like you stay away. That's fine. And so then it just underlies how Margaret has been like this true companion even more so necessarily than Philip. It is, to your earlier point, a sweetening of their relationship because obviously they were at odds a lot in their relationship. But isn't that, of course, what happens at the end of all things? You just, like, remember the nice things. But this idea for invoking duty, like, you wrote in the notes, like, not the dazzling, but the dutiful. I think that's so interesting because obviously that's the value that Elizabeth prizes over all things. And it's this idea of which one is, who is the dutiful

daughter and who is the, like, fuzzling. Dausling daughter has been this difference between them this whole time. So for Elizabeth to say, actually, we both were dutiful in our own ways, I thought was a really beautiful moment. And she was always there for me. Yeah. It's very lovely. And I think it, I don't have siblings, so I don't really understand the sibling thing. But it does, that also does seem like the magic of that type of relationship that no matter how impossible they are to you, that there is that just togetherness. So I, it was, it was really lovely. And I think your, your unnamed friend's point that this is sort of like classic crown, like a small slice of mostly realness.

life stuff that is used to frame a larger character development and ideas about these people and history. It's like, okay, like, here we are. We're slightly back on track. And then we get Hope Street, which is William and Harry and Kate. So we're going to talk about this. Like, there's just not a ton I want to say about this because I feel like we've already covered it in that like how little I'm interested in this courtship, how little I care that they're doing sort of like beat for beat for beat reenactments of this like absolutely you call this early on in our coverage of the season of the crowd that they were going to do the fashion show this absolutely bonkers fashion show thing that happened all this stuff we're engaging a bit more and more with the

kate and her mother and this like how much is this a machination and how much is this you know genuinely kate falling for will stuff and then i mean what's interesting about these final three is between the young women that they cast for margaret and elizabeth in rich And then in the last two, we're deploying the Claire Foy bomb plus the Olivia Coleman bomb, which we'll talk about more in the finale. But we get Matt Smith and Claire Foy in this episode. A friend of mine who over at Vanity Fair who covers a lot of award stuff, she's like, she hadn't seen the screeners yet. She's like, does Claire Foy show up enough to get yet another Emmy in like a guest starring role? And I'm like, it's possible, honestly.

Yeah. Guest appearance, sure, yeah. But I was, I mean, again, it is, it's like the Beatles are here. Like when we see like Elizabeth and Philip in their, in their, you know, sports car zooming down the row. Yeah. In Malta. It's just like, I'm like, this is the stuff. This is it, you know?

Yeah. So one small note about that because you get the Malta flashbacks because Elizabeth is like, I hope that your home with Kate will be like my villa, Guadamagia. I was going to say Guadonino, which was a lovely director. with apologies to the real name of the villa. Anyway. And so they move in together at Hope Street, whatever. And that seems nice for them. And Elizabeth sends a gift as like a, you know, a blessing upon this house in the next

chapter of his life. And it's a picture of them on Malta. And it's like shirtless Matt Smith and Claire Foy looking. And it's a wonderful photograph. But it does feel weird to have like a framed photograph of your grandparents and like, a shared home on display, even if they are the queen and the Duke of Edinburgh. You know, I just, I'm like, that's, that's a little presumptuous. I have a, well, I think the way it's displayed, I would agree with you.

I have two pushbacks on them. One, if my grandma was the queen, like, maybe I, yes, I might have like many photos of her in my house. Sure, yeah. Yeah, I mean, you have the male, you know. Any stand will do. But also, I had a photo of my grandma and grandpa, my mom. side from no one was shirtless but like it was from the 40s and they just look like really cute

and possibly young and they like both have bikes and they're just like standing in this like and they look kind of glamorous and I didn't have it like framed solo on a side table but I had it with like other photos in my college apartment I think it's the way it's displayed that like looks a little it's just so they can frame the shot easily but it yeah the way it's right I mean I get how filmmaking works but like I just I do it it's they I think it's they I think it's they I They put, like, a lot of emphasis on the shared apartment stuff, and I'm just like, I don't know. Listen, having photos of your young grandparents is wonderful, and it's a great photo. But that just, it seems like a little odd.

That's okay. I did like the whole, like, we're young, we're throwing dinner parties. Like, we don't know what we're doing, but we're 20 and we're throwing dinner parties. And from all accounts, like, William and Kate, like, did love to cook together and, like, have their friends over and stuff like that. So, like, if these characters slash performance. performers were more interesting. I think I would have been more interested in this. If they had any chemistry at all.

Yeah. Anything you want to say about the William and Harry stuff around Camilla and Charles and all of that? I mean, as you have noted, this show is not following Spare, Prince Harry's royal memoir in any way shape or form. It's just like the base, the total opposite. Except it's very clear that this show operates in like a spare universe, in the spare universe because there's a direct reference to the opening scene, which is one of the times Prince Harry is back. And according to Prince Harry, Prince Charles is like,

please don't make my last years of misery to the boys. And then they have Prince Charles say almost exactly that. It's like, please don't make my wedding day of misery. So they're all like aware. of what was going on. Oh, they all read it. Yeah. They all read it.

And they were like, we reject basically all of this, which is just like pretty mean. That paired with, I just think some of the most unnatural, like expositional and therapy dialogue I've ever seen in my entire life. And they like keep trotting these two boys together to like do some high level therapeutizing about,

you know, why they were feeling this way or that way. And it just, it doesn't fit. It's just, none of it plays right. And that's, I just, it's a bummer. Something it does work for me in Hope Street is the way in which Elizabeth's insecurity around the Golden Jubilee, again, feels like we're given access to this character in a way that I don't know that they've always been successful doing that with the Melda Stanton's version of Elizabeth.

So that idea of like, am I still relevant? You know, again, we're not being subtle here. about the themes, but I still think her anxiety around the Golden Jubilee and then her stepping out and being sort of appreciated. Again, I'm not a monarchist and I wouldn't go celebrate the queen at the Golden Jubilee, but I'm just sort of like, we've watched this woman tamp things down and sacrifice things and shut things off and whatever for what she perceives as her duty, doing her best. And, you know, we'll talk about it more in Sleep Dairy.

sleep, but you're sort of like, yeah, I mean, yes, I do think we should honor what this was, you know. Her sister and her mother died within a month of each other. Yeah. Like the same year as the Jubilee. And I think the episodes do an effective job of, you know, communicating. It was, that's pretty much everyone she had left besides Philip. But those were, you know, those were her connection to her older self and to like a, to her, I guess to her younger self, I mean, and to her. personal life.

Yeah. So that's a big loss, and that's pretty soon and afterwards. And I was reminded when I was rewatching the very first episode of the Crown, you know, the balcony is a thing that looms for all of them. And there's that scene of like, will Jared Harris make it out on the balcony? And they're all staring at him. And in the intro, you know, to be totally fair, the crowd, CGI in the first episode is almost as bad as it is in this episode, which I almost started yelling.

Because they knew that the crowd CJ was so bad that they started cutting in like real footage of the crowds, you know? And then they cut back to the green screen. I was very, very angry. I just, I was like, I deserve better than this. What would you do instead if you were in charge? Just hire some actors, you know, and make a crowd and just do it once. You can film them all and do some costume changes. I don't know.

Make it smaller. I wonder how much COVID played a factor, though, to your point, it was as bad as season one. You know, the crowd issue, the crowd, the CGI crowd issue is not specific to the crown, though it is quite bad on the crown, I want to say. But it's like pretty much everywhere. But it made me very angry. I thought the whole like William, like watching the Jubilee with the Middletons and then like rushing to be on the, it was like slightly preposterous. And that's another thing. Yeah.

Where you could see in, like, Peter Morgan world, it being sort of that dramaturgical, okay, he's here. It's like he's divided between, like, two families and, like, what a normal family life could be like versus what his duty is like it's the public and the private. It's watching from inside outside. You know, it's a callback again to that coronation episode with, like, the Duke of Windsor watching at home and narrating. But it's just, again, it's just a little too far-fetched, and I've seen it too many times at this point. Yeah, he does basically like an airport run at the end of a rom-com or something like that to be by his granny said. Okay, let's talk about Harry. And here's my problem with the Harry Nazi uniform plotline, which is, yes, a thing that happened.

And it happened in 2005. A photograph that exists. Okay. Here's my problem with it. We get the beats of it happening. It's this party they're going to. They're all going in costume. We get William and Kate's reaction, which, you know, as you point out, is different

from Harry's accounting of their reaction, which he says they spurred him on. I think it's like a sort of a more tepid version of that where they're asking questions, but they're not exactly saying, like, take that thing off, you know? Right. And then it happens. And we had everyone's reaction reading the table and just being like, ugh, disgust. Oh, fucking Harry. Like, blah, blah.

So Harry's in the Margaret role at this point in the show, right? When Margaret did things that were frustrating or embarrassing or whatever for the family, we were wholly inside of her as a complete person and character who we understood why she did these things. And we felt for her as she did these things because she did these things because, like, you know, she wanted love or all these, you know, whatever she's doing. to be considered the sort of fuck up of the family. She's doing from a place of relatable humanity.

I don't know that there's a way to relatably humanize what Harry does here in putting on a Nazi uniform in 2005. But I just don't feel like, other than, to your point, sort of armchair psychology, way too aware of being the spare stuff that we get out of Harry. I just don't feel like he feels like a real kid, a real person. No. That I feel like I can be like, oh, Harry, don't do that. that's not going to go the way you think sort of thing. And so then it just feels like something that happened rather than something I'm feeling. And then the way they tie it up is they cut to, I believe, Tony Blair's last appearance

with the queen. And Tony Blair and the queen are discussing the hairy photograph. And Tony Blair is kind of like, well, youthful discretion. And the queen is like not on this level of gross misjudgment. And Tony Blair's like, well, you know, an apology, some time of reflection. It'll go on its way. And the queen is just like, is that your plan for Iraq? And then that's it.

Goodbye, Tony Blair. Goodbye. She dissolved him. Good bye. Like, what? Well, that was really funny because they were, well, there's a couple possibilities here. One, first of all, I don't mind making the queen funny, but sometimes they make her, like, sassy

in a way that I'm just sort of like, I don't know about sassy Queen Elizabeth. But we know that Peter Morgan sort of very intentionally reshaped the finale to deal with sort of like post Elizabeth's actual death. So like Sleep, Dairy Sleep, the name of it, the hymn that the Piper plays on the backpacker. Yeah. Is what was played at her funeral. You know what I mean? Like all this information they had from her funeral, they sort of. backdated into this episode about planning her funeral.

And so we can talk about all of that. But I wonder if there was like a more elegant resolution to the Tony Blair that they shoved to the side so that they could do this thing. I think that that is like a rational and generous explanation. I'm always trying to be generous. But like I think that I think that because it's bizarre because there's like vestigial traces of it. Like Charles talking about Tony wanting to be like, you know, the only labor PM to win three elections and the that there's an election coming up and, like, what's going to happen? And, like, you know, this ends in 2005, 20 Blair is at the PM for two more years after that.

You know, and they don't, so maybe they didn't feel like they had an end to history inside of 2005 or something like that. But it is for a show that started, again, if you go back to Wolverton Splash and all the stuff in season one, for a show that started to be so much about the PM and the Monarch's relationship, for it to just fizzle this way is a bizarre choice. Right. Right. And also to be an invest. of how the crown functioned in the UK and what it reflects or what it hides or about

modern Britain. And for it to be so separate, you know, like, it seems like they are in real life as well. I think part of that is just a reflection of the increasing uselessness of the of the monarchy, which it does also seem like this show is embracing a little bit as we get to the finale. But, you know, there is also just like a practical level to that once once you're conveying that separation, it just all feels a little bit, you know, lower stakes as a result. Snoring, gasping during sleep, feeling fatigued, ask your doctor about Zepbound, terseptite. The first and only FDA approved prescription medicine for moderate to severe obstructive sleep apnea, OSA, and adults with obesity. Zepbound is a prescription medicine used with a

reduced calorie diet and increased physical activity to help adults with moderate to severe obstructive sleep apnea, OSA, and obesity to improve their OSA. Zepbound is approved as a 2.5, 5, 7.5, 10, 12.5, or 15 milligram injection. Zepound contains terseptide and should not be used with other terseptide containing products or any GLP1 receptor agonist medicines. It is not known if Zepound is safe and effective for use in children. Don't share needles or pins or reuse needles. Don't take if allergic to it, or if you or someone in your family had medullary thyroid cancer, or if you've had multiple endocrine neoplasia syndrome type 2. Tell your doctor if you get a lump or swelling in your neck. Stop, Zepbound, and call your doctor if you have severe stomach pain

or a serious allergic reaction. Severe side effects may include inflamed pancreas or gallbladder problems. Tell your doctor if you experience vision changes before scheduled procedures with anesthesia. If you're nursing, pregnant, plan to be, or taking birth control pills. Taking Zepbound with a of funnal urea or insulin may cause low blood sugar. Side effects include nausea, diarrhea, and vomiting, which can cause dehydration and worsened kidney problems. Talk to your doctor. Call 1-800-545-99 or visit Zepbound.lily.com.

Speaking of the highest takes possible, let's talk about love, mommy, love, and Charles and Camilla. You called it completely that we're ending with the Charles and Camilla wedding in 2005. we get Charles deciding that he wants to marry Camilla and coming to talk to the Queen about it. I do love Elizabeth's pushback where he's like, Camilla has been a saint and she is born,

but no one has ever born before. And Elizabeth's like, wait a minute here. Let's talk about this. What did you make of this end to Charles's story? He's like sort of forgotten. And I still think he gets overall an incredible edit this season. and on the show, even though they kind of do pull the rug on her from him at the very end. And also, I thought the particular scene that you're referencing is very true to their continued

relationship throughout the episode, which is basically that, like, Elizabeth couldn't stand him. Like, that's a tough break, but at least it was consistent. And she even, like, tries to do the right thing by him as a monarch and I suppose, like, as a mother. but she, to borrow a phrase of her own, does it through gritted teeth. And it's like, this guy is like really annoying. And he is. Like, he is a whiner to the end in this movie,

even as he made, in the show, even as he makes some decent points about love and or the world at large. But like, why is he like that? Is, you know, it's actually, it's great and consistent character writing that he is still so annoying when he's in a room with her until, the very end. Well, yeah, he reverts to being the child. But I do think he and Camilla get one of the kindest edits. Oh, yeah, totally. In TV biopic history. And they do get like a genuinely

lovely proposal in the greenhouse moment. That's so nice when she finally, yeah, he finally gets permission and he runs it and you just like see it through the door and you don't even, you can kind of see him. He's saying the words, but it's, there's, it's lovely. It felt cinematic. In the way, you know, again, in like, in the ways in which we've been critiquing the show for being like, and then she said this and he said that. And we're like, okay, we can also read the Wikipedia page or whatever versus this, which just feels like autistic, more artistic to show us that and to capture a feeling in a moment. And a dynamic of a relationship, you know, where she's like, oh, get up, you know, like all this sort of stuff. It's very. Right, right, right.

And for her to be just like, you know, again, in this kind Camilla edit, for her to just be like guarded. in the greenhouse, you know? And like the night before when they talk on the phone and she's like, my sister convinced me get a spray tan. So, you know, it's really, it's funny stuff. All right. Elizabeth. Come back to Elizabeth and sleep, dairy sleep.

As we've been saying sort of all episode, this is a major period of loss for Elizabeth in terms of losing the roots that tie her back to the beginning of who she was. And so it is both a little bit of dirty pool, though I could not. possibly blame them for them to bring Claire Foy and Olivia Coleman in here. I mean, like, I was, I loved it. I didn't care. Oh, it was great. You know, why else are we here? Yeah. It was, no, it was, it was fantastic, but I was like, this is a shortcut. It's a shortcut to me caring to bring Claire Foy and Olivia Coleman in. But if I had the shortcut available to me as a TV creator, I would use it too. But the sequence that we alluded to before, first we get like Olivia

Coleman. Let's talk about the Olivia Coleman one first. The first one, when they're in the TV creator, I would use it, the stable. And I like the way that it's done, you know, where she's like moving tack around. Like, she's part of the business of the scene. And you don't fully realize it's her until she's there, which is like kind of spooky and kind of interesting at the same time. How did all of that work out for you? Oh, I loved it. Many people seem to be really mad about all the quote unquote ghost appearances this season. And I have no problem with it. I think it's just like we're watching it. TV show and I like the television devices and I like bringing back good actors. I think it works for me a lot more than the like beat for beat recreations of like a bunch of boring teenagers.

So I was elated to see her. I think this episode in a lot of ways is going back to like the core Elizabeth thing, which is what did she give up to for this role and for this job? and like what the sacrifice of a public life. And the sacrifice of like this particular public life, I think, because we've seen the sacrifices of some other characters and they get increasingly frustrating to us. But like when this show is about this young woman who was put into like unbelievable, like,

extraordinary circumstances over an extended period of time and like what does that do to a person, to a family, to a country, whatever, great stuff. So bringing back the various parts of her life, just the various iterations of her reminds you of like of where it has been and also like dramatizes the conversation that the show is having with itself and that you think that the character is probably having with herself if she wants to be introspective. So I loved it. I also, you know, it's like Olivia Coleman shows up and is very practical. To your point, she is like doing the horse chores and is like, I'm, I'm,

I'm over it. Like, I'm middle-aged and I'm tired and, like, let yourself be yourself. Then Claire Foy shows up. And, of course, I was just exhilarated because I'm the number one Claire Foy stand of all time. Yeah. And she is, as I remember the Claire Foy Queen, which is just, like, brusque and imperious. And, like, what are you doing? Like, it's get on with it.

It's tough. You just have to, like, make your decision. Like, don't be insane. And they have that incredible back and forth about what about the woman that I gave up and Elizabeth Windsor is gone. If you went looking for her, you couldn't find her. You buried her a long time ago. Like, I gasped. I thought that, I thought that was incredible writing. Perfectly delivered, of course, by Claire Foy. Just really good stuff. And that's the show, right? Like, that has been the show. So they create circumstances where they give you what, like, an amazing, emotional, dramatic scene that, like, crystallizes what they have been exploring for six episodes. Like, you know, when people,

Peter Morgan still has it. He still has it. It's, you know. I'm sorry. The old Taylor can't come to the phone right now. She's dead. Yeah. So I love this sequence. And it really draws a like a thick line underneath. Again, that idea of not only has she suppressed that girl that we see or buried that we see in the Ritz episode a long ago, but all these people who knew. various versions of her that were closer to that girl, Margaret, Portchie, her mother, whatever, they're gone. Philip just ain't it and never really has been it, even when she was that girl, you know, like those are the years where he was like the most unfaithful to her. Right. You know, so like how much did he really know her or pay attention? And so Philip has always been, especially like from Tobias Menzies playing him on,

sort of much more interested in the institution, like how she is the crown versus how she is Elizabeth. You know, they're very chilly, separate rooms. You know, she gets all of her affection from her corgis, like, all this sort of stuff like that. It's never like, it's never like when you're watching Frontinette Lights and coach and Tammy Taylor, like, sitting and enjoying a glass of wine and you're like, and they look at each other and like, I know you, and you're so different from the coach version of you or the school counselor version of you. Here we are just people and we can call ourselves out. That's never been the Philip and Elizabeth relationship. That's somewhat been the Elizabeth and Margaret relationship, but it's never been the Philip and Elizabeth relationship.

Or at least not since she became queen. And so all that's left of her is the crown and a bit of granny, a bit of granny and the crown. And that's all that's left of her. Certainly not mummy. You know, and so I think that's some stunning stuff to be wrapped inside this episode. I think the visuals of her looking over the model of her funeral. Oh, yeah. And I was also going to say of her watching all the old, like, family videos. And she's, you know, and they shoot it in a way where she's like standing in the pictures. And some of what she's watching is like real old footage of like a very young Elizabeth.

and then she is once again watching like shirtless Philip on the beach, which like the amount of shirtless Matt Smith that has been in the last two episodes. No, it's amazing. But it's also like, it seems like some self-knowledge of like they know what they were missing. You know, they like they know what the last season. That's okay. What I wrote in my notes for that moment was Tom Cruise a Minority Report. It just gave very much like standing in the footage of like,

Like whatever. But like, yeah, yeah, yeah. But also just the bit of Amelda Staunton trying to get the reel to work. Oh,

it was so good. Which is like really funny and like, delightful. I hope they just like let her do that. You know, they were just like, hey, Amelda,

you Amelda, try to get this to work, you know. Good luck. Yeah. Good luck to you. But yeah, I,

I loved all of that. And then, of course, the stuff with the bagpiper, with the paper where we see him like, get ready and come out and sort of like, you know, sharp, do a little,

we're on his shoes. He does like a sharp little militaristic turn to do his pacing back and forth. And it reminds me of like what we were talking about with the like the swan guy like this idea of these like people in the coterie and we're curious about their lives and we're curious about who they are. And I looked it up and the guy, you know, which he calls him pipes. I just like loved that. That guy, you know, it's fictionalized version of him, but that guy is the person who played for her at her funeral. And, And I also love the silent comedy of the various footmen just, like, closing the doors as he's starting to, like, tune the backpipes up. And then, and then the beautiful. And then, like, the woman who's, like, cleaning and starts singing. I mean, then it's just, like, it's beautiful. Yeah. That's really good. And just in general, like, the planning your funeral as the mechanism through which the Peter Morgan, like, allows this episode to be about, like, saying goodbye to the queen.

Because as you noted, she died just as they were starting production on season six, they paused. production, he reworked it. But like, that's some classic crown shit. You know, that is why we show up. It's really, really good. And, you know, and it's based in truth. There's an amazing 2017 piece by Sam Knight and the Guardian that was just like all about the many years long plans for the Queen's funeral. Like that, that is all pulled from real life and the absurdity of this world to like give everyone at home like a framework to, acknowledge events that happened like 20 years after the events of the show. So I thought all of that was very great. Yeah. And I thought, yeah, I thought it was like clever and emotional and everything you could, I think, want. We get, Charles gets one more disappointment at his wedding, which is, mummy is not abdicating, nor, like, has she ever, this, this has been a ridiculous storyline for

Elizabeth throughout. But it was, like, it was storyline. Like, I remember when we, when we, When we were, like, deep in our will appreciation phase, everyone was like, oh, she's going to skip Charles and go to Will. Oh, yeah, I remember that. Like, anything that you read about the queen has just always been like, that is hugwash. Like, she was like, it's a job for life. And so on a real life level, the idea that, number one, she was ever considering this, but two, that she would consider doing it in, like, a wedding speech. A wedding speech. Charles's, like, second wedding is, like, completely. preposterous, but because it sets up the three queens and all of the, you know, just because

it's the ending and it sets up the goodbye, like, I'm okay with it, even though it's not in any way grounded in reality. In the final moments, which is Elizabeth was Philip and then Elizabeth and the other queens in her casket, I will confess that I, both times I watched the episode, my mind and soul just like left my body and did some chores while the Philip and Elizabeth stuff was stock. I just, like, had nothing to connect me to it. And then when all three queens are there, I'm just, like, back up and I'm riveted. Like, I just thought it was really, really compelling.

Did any of, did anything, any of the substance of the final Philip and Elizabeth conversation, like, feel substantive to the thesis of the show or a relationship that you wanted to spend time in? Yeah. Jonathan Price is a great actor who I don't think has been served by the. this particular character, and that's okay. So I'm with you, but in general, like, against all historical evidence and, you know, sense of social justice, I've always been a little soft on Prince Philip, and like, both as a character and, like, you know, I'm just like, I guess I like a tall, handsome white guy. But, like, we just, we have, again, we have to be honest.

I just drew a line. Yeah. So. Yeah. So for a couple of reasons, I was like, I perked up. I think for me, in terms of the show, as I said, I just started watching episode one, Wolferton Splash, which starts with their wedding. It is, like, it is framed as a show about her, but about them in the first season and the

first two seasons in a lot of ways. So I like, you know, that kind of symmetry. I was reminded of one of my favorite episodes, which was the coronation episode, where they have that, like, full drag-out fight at the all-a-all-es. altar in Westminster Abbey. And so this is like a moment of reconciliation. This is a different church, but whatever. Same idea.

So I thought that, you know, that was just like a nice callback. I thought that they were both like, they at least had some chemistry. It's nice to have people connecting on a show after everyone else. And then also the stuff that Phillips says is just like, here I'll read some of it. The system makes no sense anymore to those outside of it, nor to those of us inside it. I'm sure that everyone will carry on pretending all as well, but the party's over. So it's like Philip is delivering the verdict on the modern monarchy and everything that is happening now, including Charles, which I pretty much agree with. So I thought it was interesting to have him do that.

And I thought that it was, you know, kind of undercutting a lot of the pro-Charles work that the show has done. But, you know, I think rightfully. It's interesting. I was reading my old colleague Richard Lawson's review of. the season and he was talking about that moment where he was like basically we as an audience had been always kind of trying to figure out like Peter Morgan has kind of trying to give us an even-handed depiction of something but in because one of the joys of the crown has been comparing what happens in every single episode to what really happened and so then when you see

the adapted changes that's when you understand like what the edit is and who is getting a generous one and who is getting an unkind one and that's that. is reveals Peter Morgan's, you know, biases. We all have them, sentiments, you know, whatever. And throughout my thesis has been he's a monarchist. And Richard Blosson in his review was sort of like, well, maybe he's not a monarchist. He's just like an Elizabeth. Yeah, exactly.

An Elizabethan. I agree with that. Yeah. And even Peter Morgan has said often that his mother was the exact same age, to the month as the queen. And so that a lot of this initial stuff and interest in her was, you know, certainly fueled by the connection of trying to understand his mother and understand a generation and the place that he grew up.

So I do think he's an Elizabeth person. I also just think the show is much more interesting when it is focused on Elizabeth and her world as opposed to, you know, pretty much anyone else. Elizabeth in her world and in, I guess in post-Diana, they figured out a way. for Imelda Stanton's version of Elizabeth to be someone we had more access to, because she existed for so long in opposition to Diana, and that was just a hard position for us to crack into. And then in post-Diana, I just feel so much more connected to Elizabeth and her insecurities and her loves and her triumphs and her.

And Elizabeth Windsor is dead and buried years ago, Jesus Christ. I think, I mean, we kind of skipped the, the Fayette, you know, years-long investigation. I mean, that stuff is also that it went on for a long time, but it was as public, as ugly, as depicted, the various inquests came to the same findings as best that I can understand. But, you know, it was so interesting to watch the first episode's portrayal of Muhammad of ad, which, you know, were, like, sympathetic and, like, a major distinction from the public figure that he became in later years as he became kind of focused on these conspiracy theories. So. So then it becomes almost like what, what the loss of his son drove him to. Yes. Less than, like, he was always quite exactly this way. Exactly. Anything else you want to touch on before we go? I don't, do you feel like they stuck the landing? I think the writs and. Sleep Dairy Sleep are so strong that it washes the taste of other things from this season out of my mouth. And it's so, I think, ingeniously connected to, you know, I also, I didn't watch all of Orvilleton Splash, but I also kind of started over again and watched some select stuff.

And so the fact that it made us maybe just by dint of Claire Foy being there or whatever, want to go back to the beginning of the show that really had us in its grip for a long time, I think is a mark of a good ending rather than like, ugh, it used to be good. It's like, oh, it used to, we used, this used to be a show we like loved. Let's go back and celebrate that rather than like, oh, this sucks. Let's remember the good days. It was almost like I just felt like a more of a connective through line between the two. Right.

Totally. I agree with your point. It got back to what we liked about the crown. And not just Claire Foy and Olivia Colman. but the structure and the larger ideas and the, and, you know, just like the essential struggle or question of the show, which is like what makes this, how is this person, this extraordinary person or this regular person in extraordinary circumstances

is going to resolve this issue and can't she? So I agree that in the Ritz and Sleep Dury Sleep when William and Harry aren't in it, it are really our classic crown. and very satisfying and rewarding. And I think it's just good luck to the next generation in every way possible in real life and in and on TV. It does feel like the spell, I mean, the spell feels so broken in terms of like, and, you know, it has been somewhat broken for a while, but there was this like, even if you hated the monarchy, I feel like, well, I don't, I don't mean to speak for UK citizens who hate the monarchy, but like Elizabeth, I. as a, just maybe just by being there for so long, for being so consistent, which is everything that they've said over and over and over again in the show about the value of the

monarchy. It's just there. Stability, the way that Clairefoy says stability, like, apparently it just lives with me forever. As soon as she started saying again, I was like, yeah, we're back. We're back, maybe. Yeah, and so there was just something about Elizabeth who had just always been there as you know, as something separate from really having to examine the monarchy.

It's when people thought about like Charles taking over or William taking over from Charles, that people are like, why? Yeah. What are we doing? Yeah. All right. Well, this has been a joy and a treat and a treasure. It really has.

Yeah. I loved every second of talking about this season with you. And I will miss the crown very much. And there were high highs and there was everything else. and another Emmy for Claire Foy, why not? Yeah, let's do it. If she delivered the line that I think I'm going to think about the most out of the crown, then why not give her just yet another Emmy for her mantle?

I agree. All right, this has been the Crown, the complete, the series finale of The Crown, a show that has been with us for so long, like the monarchy itself. This episode was produced by the great Sasha Eschel, and we will be back in this feed with more coverage of Fargo, Sean and I would back in the new year with some coverage with the curse. Your detective is coming. There's a lot coming in this feed.

Thank you, Amanda. Thank you, Sasha. Happy holidays to everyone.