The Prestige TV Podcast - ‘The O.C.’ 20th Anniversary: Season 1, Episodes 6-7

Episode Date: August 2, 2023

Joanna and Juliet are joined by Nora Princiotti to discuss two pivotal episodes in the first season of 'The O.C.'—"The Girlfriend" and "The Escape." The three discuss the emerging relationship dynamics between Summer and Seth, Ryan and Marisa, and Sandy, Kirsten, and Caleb. They also reflect on the instantly-iconic soundtrack and the legacy it left in film, TV, and wider culture. Hosts: Joanna Robinson, Juliet Litman, and Nora Princiotti Senior Producer: Bobby Wagner Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

I'm Sean Fennessey. I'm Amanda Dobbins. And together we host The Big Picture, The Ringers Film Podcasts for New Releases, career retrospectives, director interviews, movie drafts, top fives, and so much more. Twice a week, we break down the latest releases,

argue about whether movies are doomed, and debate our modern film canon. Listen to The Big Picture on Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts. Hello, welcome back to the Prestige TV podcast feed. I'm Joanna Robinson. Back again with me is the OC expert, Juliet Lippman and join rounding out the trio today. It's my Euphoria podcast co-host. Norah Prenciani. Hi, Nora, how are you doing? Hi, Joe. I'm doing so well. It's so nice to be potting with you once again. About an equally chaotic teen drama, whatever we want to call it. Wow. Thanks for having me. I don't know that I ever would have articulated it as such before, but now I'm kind of realizing that this is our little corner and I'm thrilled about it. I love this for us.

Nora, will you tell the folks sort of why in particular, other than your wonderful charming presence as always, but why in particular we brought you on for this episode of the OC prestige TV rewatch? Well, I mean, in some ways, I suppose that would be for you guys to say, but I'll venture a guess, which is I am, I'm first of all obsessed with this show. I love it very much. It's very important to me. I didn't come to the OC in its actual heyday.

I was a little bit young, but what was very important to me during the time when it was being released was Gossip Girl. One, because it's just an incredible bit of television. But two, I was, so I was in seventh grade, the first season of Gossip Girl, or maybe an eighth grade, but I was about to start high school. And I was, I lived in a small town, but I was about to go to a boarding school that had certain characteristics that would overlap with a Constance Billard or a Harbor school. And my mom was moving to New York.

And I didn't really, like, I would have been a Dan Humphrey, even though I don't, like, I don't want to claim that, but that was me a little bit. So shows like this became a bit of a cultural blueprint of what some of my new peers might be a little bit like, even though they were obviously not like the. people in these shows, but they became super, super important to me. And when Gossip Girl was so important to me, I think I sought out anything else that might fit that mode. And that was how I discovered the O.C. And I loved it because what's not to love, but also because I was just absolutely obsessed with the music. And Alexandra Potsavas, who is the music supervisor, both for

the O.C, for Gossip Girl, for Grey's Anatomy, for the Twilight soundtrack, for just like, What a resume. These monocultural things that had incredibly good taste behind the songs that they were choosing helped me discover a lot of what my taste in music became. So I wanted to profile Alexandra like forever. And I'm going to be doing that in conjunction with the anniversary because perfect timing. So that's going to be coming out in about a week or so. But because of that, I have been revisiting.

just one of my all-time favorite shows. And now I get to do that with you guys. So I'm just super psyched. What was the first show she was the music supervisor for? It was not the OC. Hold on one second, and I will look that up for you. And she also didn't do the first seven episodes. Right. She actually joined. Josh Schwartz brought Alex on after episode seven. So the stuff that we're covering, she actually hasn't dipped her toe in yet. But I think one of the coolest things is that you can see the seeds of music becoming this like character onto itself on the show. Totally. Especially in episode seven. Oh my goodness.

It's so good. We're here to talk about episode six, the girlfriend and the long-awaited trip to Tijuana, episode seven, The Escape. Those are the two episodes that we're talking about today. In these episodes, Summer gets her finger licked. Marissa loses her virginity. The gang heads of Tijuana. Kirsten's Range River gets wrecked again.

Sandy sells out. Luke gets punched. No one gets shot, but someone. Hot Mess Express. Marissa Cooper almost dies. And that is where we leave. On a massive cliffhanger into the mini hiatus that was part of the hallmark of this phenomenon that was season one.

This airs on the episode seven airs September 16th. We don't come back until October 29th. So 43 days of wondering whether or not. not Marissa Cooper was going to die in the alleys of Tijuana. So there you go. Imagine that cliffhanger. May I just pop in that in 1994, Watchers 3 is the first thing on her IMDB? You love to see it. Love it. Girlfriend, we get, you're so damn fine by OK Go, wait for me by the runaways, disco church by the faders, break by Palm Street, more balanced by sole kid. Number one, do you by user, hollow by tricky, and iconically you and I both by Jason, M-R-A-Z.

Maraz. In Escape, we get Good Day by Luce, a movie script ending by the aforementioned Death Cab for Cutie, out of control by the Chemical Brothers, Rhythmo de Oro by Los Cubastekas, La Conga de Santiago by Los Cubastecas, going under by rockers, high-fi, space by something corporate, and what is the most iconic needle drop of episode 7, Juliet Litman. Into dust by Mazzie Star,

the queen of my youth. Massey Star, like this. Wow. What's your music question for Nora? I was just going to ask was your favorite

from episodes 1 through 7 what's your favorite needle drop because there's a lot of really good ones. Even what you just listed is really good. And, you know, a moment in episode 7 that I'd forgotten about is when

I think it's Holly, says to Luke, I really love this song. And when they're dancing to like some techno song in the club, and I was like, I was like, incredible because literally nobody knows this song. There's truly no way that that Holly of all people. So, and that really foreshadows the... She has death. She is layers.

She is deaf, Holly. She's not a paper thin character. Such a bitch. It's amazing. But I was just, yeah, I was just going to ask, like, what needle drop means the most. So the Mazzie star means the most. I will say, I wish that. this was a cooler answer, you cannot beat Phantom Planet as the theme to this song. Like,

you just, there is absolutely, this is a top five show for me. I love it so deeply. So like, this is said as, as a compliment. For everything that this show accomplished, the best 30 seconds of every OC episode are when the theme song goes. Like, it's just, I feel so, like, California has never really been important to me. Like, I'm, that's, that's a rude to say. The mindset. I'm just in East. Tough. I am. like an East Coast kid and that is just like I've always been aware of that. The idea of California has never been more aspirational to me than hearing that theme and watching just the opening credits.

Like I've never wanted to be part of it more than than every time I do that. We should say there's a lot that happens in these two episodes. Obviously I just sort of like barely brush the surface. But I want to maybe start with other than is there anything else you wanted to say on needle drop corner? I mean, obviously, we'll come back to this, but like, anything you want to say, Julie? Okay. Welcome to the O.C. Caleb Nickel, right?

The Donald Trump of the West. Alan Dale is here. And Alan Dale was just, like, having a time at this time, right? Because he's also eventually, like, Charles Widmore over on Loss, and he's also on Ugly Betty, and he's basically playing the same exact character on all three shows and is incredible in those roles on all three shows. Julia, starting with you, like, how do you feel like Caleb entering and he's here for the first two seasons of the show? How do you feel like he changes the dynamic or how impactful is he to the O.C.?

He's so impactful. I mean, Caleb Nicol is, to me, more iconic than the Donald Trump of the West. I mean, that's underrating his power. I think he's the only character that really, like, can punch back with Sandy. And it's kind of exciting to see it in episode six when he comes in. and there's another actor kind of like on Peter Gallagher's level that can go toe to toe. You just mentioned Charles Woodmore. Loss was incredibly important to me. And the emotional center was always Penny and Desmond.

So I was very invested in the Woodmore family. I couldn't tell you what accent Allendale does on any of those shows. Like the, I know he's a Kiwi and then he's playing a British person on Lost. And then he's like playing a Californian on the, O-C and I don't even know who he is on Ugly Betty. And I'm just like, this man has one voice and like maybe there's an accent, maybe not, but he is sort of like just omnipresent. And it almost feels like we are lucky when he arrives in Newport Beach behind the gates.

Like his arrival is so exciting. And it sort of like changes the show a little bit. And I like adding the dimension to Kirsten as well. So like seeing another force that kind of she has to brush up against. Like it's a very welcome edition. I wouldn't say I feel the same way about his girlfriend, who is the titular character of episode six. Gabrielle. Gabrielle.

And I believe I watched. Gabrielle was on a show that I watched, which I actually mentioned to you, Joanna. She was on The Riches. So she was very much in my life that actress. But I wouldn't say I enjoyed Gabrielle. Of all the nits to pick in this run of seven episodes, I think we could probably go the most deep on her and her and Ryan. But nevertheless, Caleb Nickel is so powerful that does not hold him back. I feel like Allendale is doing whatever the Kiwi version of like a transatlantic accent is.

Like that's just essentially what he settled on. He's like, I can't really do American. So I will do this. And whatever this is, that's what you have to do with. It's like he has like a tenor. He is not a tenor, but there is a tenor to his voice. A timbre maybe, both. That is just like so specific to him. What are your kill of nickel feelings, Nora? An icon. I would, I would. I would. remembering, looking back on these episodes, that they do kind of seed some of the Kirsten Sandy relationship turmoil plot points that to me are not my favorites. I don't like when they're

not happy together. I just love them and want all to be, not all to be perfect in the kingdom. But I don't like when they're borderline having affairs and all of that was tough for me. But I do like when there's dimension to that relationship. Like I feel like when the show's been the strongest, you do kind of, it doesn't have to be picture perfect, but it's not all going to shit. And Caleb is so good at being just the catalyst of you see the ways in which they are really different and in which they don't always want the same things, but also want a lot of the same things and care really deeply about each other. and, you know, the conflict that happens between them in these two episodes is Sandy misunderstanding what Kirsten wants, but still trying to get what he thinks Kirsten wants. And that's always, like, that's the dynamic that I think is so perfect between them, where it's real,

but it's not, is someone going to cheat on someone? Because that always felt fundamentally wrong to me. and Caleb ignites that in them. And they, to me, are the center of the show. So I love that. It's so interesting because this was the first episode, episode, episode, The Girlfriend was the first episode that I was frustrated with Sandy. I was really frustrated because I just felt like he, like, I agree.

Kirsten should quit. I agree. They should move to Berkeley. Come to the Bay Area. Open a little gallery in Sausalito. Live your life, Kirsten. Like, do that. It sounds great.

But he wasn't listening to her at all. And he was just sort of like, well, I've said this, so that's what we've agreed on, right? Oh, I thought we talked, like, you know, he just wasn't listening to her and that was aggravating to me, but felt realistic. And then, of course, he has a redemption at the end of the episode when he like sort of intervenes with Caleb and, you know, argues on behalf for her. But, like, yeah, I was like, this is the first time where I was like, Sandy wasn't perfect

for me and every single, like, choice and decision he was making. Juliet, how did you feel about the Sandy and Kirsten dynamic? It's interesting. It's, like, kind of hard to understand their relationship, like, through episode six. Like, why are they together? What was, what was Kirsten like before she was a noopsy or, like, returned to being a noopsy? Like, I think I understand their family actually less at this point than I did, like, maybe the episode before. But I, I guess I just sort of like all the, like, motion that's happening.

And in general, just, like, having adult, like, the adults have, like, real storylines versus just the kids is, like, a nice part of this episode. But I was actually thinking as I was watching, I think of like through episodes one through seven, six is by far the weakest. And I guess it's kind of a set up episode. But I just think even though like more happens in six, like I prefer the debut and I prefer the outsider, like just because I felt like they added to my understanding of characters, whereas like this one kind of confused me a little bit more. I feel like the acting is actually pretty good in this. But I didn't, it like muddled some of the messages for me. And I guess it's just like it introduced this idea of like a Northern California and Cohen life.

It's just like really hard to imagine. I just can't see it. With all of this rich Orange County imagery, I just can't see it. I see it. You do? What does it look like? Did they also have Tuscan farmhouse interior design and Salisito? If they lived in Belvedere, they would.

Yeah. Yeah. Belvedere was full of mansions that looked like that. But like I think that if they were in Berkeley, they would be up in the Berkeley Hills. Absolutely. And then Kirsten, if she wanted to get her noopsie fix, could pop over to Marin in her, like, Sassolito Gallery life. And there's plenty of noopsy energy happening in Marin County where I grew up. And so, and then, like, and then Sandy could lean into his, it might just drive them further apart, though, because, like, and then Sandy can go surfing, like, right off of, like, where the fairy is in Larkspur.

Like, he could go surfing the morning out there. He's a little colder, but he can still do it. Is there surfing there? There's not a beach there. There is? There is. They surf there every morning. Like the hardy people do.

You can also like surf right by the Golden Gate Bridge if you like aren't scared of rocks like I am. So, you know, there's like there's there's some, you know, very cold surfing out since a beach. You could do some surfing. But like I wonder if it would drive them further apart because if Sandy lived in Berkeley, he would just become like more and more sandy. And if Kirsten spending time or rent, she would become more and more like noopsie-esque. And then like never the twain shall meet. You know what I mean? And I like that, you know, just to bop over to episode seven for a second in their storyline,

I do like these as like a pair of stories for them. I'm with Nora that I don't love the like banter with this chick, Rachel or Jimmy Cooper trying to like kiss Kirsten. I don't like that stuff. But the conversation of like, should Sandy take this job and him talking to her about like you're threatened if I earn money you like that you earn the money. I'm your little rebellion, like all this sort of stuff. Nora, how does that episode seven stuff work for you?

Yeah. So exactly, I feel exactly how you just laid it out. Because I think that's really interesting and it feels really real. Definitely. For Sandy to be saying like, this is what makes you different from all of these women because you can tell that Kirsten cares about that. but I do feel that they and you know

Seth does most of this but they are part of the moral center and the center of the show that even in an unbelievably fast-paced way is flitting from drug problem to a fair to shooting to unstable teenager to just like

these high drama high consequence events in incredibly rapid fashion. This is one of the things actually that I think is so perfect about the music is it, to me, it makes some of the most ridiculous moments credible. Like, and I know the Imogen Heap, and I'm skipping way forward, obviously, but like that has become parody and S&L did it and everything. But there's something where it's just like, it's so over the top that if you don't have something that just ties together all of the feelings, you couldn't buy it. And there are certain,

like, I think there's a certain thing about the Coens being a quote unquote picture perfect family. And even though they're not, there is something about that that makes you still feel good about like, this is a show that I'm tuning into to mostly have a good time and be with my TV friends who I love. And like, there are high stakes things that happen, but I don't want it to be like a horrible downer. And when they are, when you're wondering, are they going to, are Are they going to cheat on each other? Like, are they going to get a divorce? It's, I don't want that.

Like, I can't handle it. None of us want that. And I don't think, like, I don't think they should have done it. But I do think that probably some of that was a byproduct of the fact that they did make them a real seeming couple and a couple that had genuine problems. So even if they took it too far, I do, like, it allows you to go to the, the emotional 11s that they went to to just have those two kind of bring you back, but also trust that they were a real depiction of a family. I think one of the most realistic parts of the show,

in a largely unrealistic show, although emotionally resonant, is how it talks about money. And I think that like that dynamic of who gets to be responsible for making money, who's the like the breadwinner and then like what are people's roles within a family? I think that actually is very realistic. And especially, with someone like a character like Sandy who is playing like a public defender, like being so keenly aware of money and also like what it affords you and like what it means. Like that part plays like really well. And I think that's another reason why I like Caleb and Sandy together is because they're on real opposite ends of the spectrum, like the capitalist spectrum basically while both working

within the system. And it's interesting. And I like, I like San, you know, some shows are better at this others. And the OC is like is pretty good. In these first seven episodes, it's pretty good about this, about like, seeding something several episodes in advance and then like having it pay off later. And I hate it when a show is like only paying off developments that it has created in its first act. And I'm like, can we have a little continuity, a little lead up to this, please? And so I like that Sandy like taking this job and having this money conversation comes the episode after Caleb is there sort of lording over him that, you know, he's, you know,

this is not how I would characterize it, but like a kept man or whatever. Or if he's thinking about Kirsten giving the money to Jimmy and what can Sandy say about that, you know, she doesn't really have to consult him because it's her money, you know what I mean? And so it's like all of that is in the mix for him to make this decision here, which is why, even though we're only seven episodes in. And it seems early for a massive career change for this character. Like, as we've been talking about this whole time, the OC is just burning through plot.

So that's where we are. We should say, I don't know the, I'm sure we, I'm sure Bill said this when we started, but like this is, we intend this to be our last OC rewatch. This is the mini rewatch. We're just doing this sort of like summer preseason seven episodes of season of season one of the,

O-C, the real, real good stuff. So I don't want to get to the end of the episode and say, like, that's it, bye and not have worn people. So you have 30 minutes to adjust your expectations before we have this podcast. That's a great transition to talking about episode seven because, wow, what an episode. Tell me what it means to you. You've been, like, talking about it every single episode leading up to this. And when Bill was like, how many should we do?

so Juliet's like, if we end before seven, which is Tijuana, we're fools. So, like, tell me, tell me what the escape means to you. I think the scene with Seth and Summer in the diner, eating, holding newspapers, and their banter there is the best scene of the show. It is so, first of all, it's visually stunning. It's, like, shot really nicely. I love the way they actually, it's like the first time you're really able to believe in their relationship or, like, believe in them together, even though she's so mean because of, like, you're like, oh, she has some depth. She wants to read the newspaper. Like, oh, they, you know, have, like, a symbiotic relationship with their toast. And, like, they actually have a lot in common.

And you also, like, see Seth just kind of, like, becoming more of who he is in that moment. And they have, like, this just back and forth that is, like, so intoxicating in the way, like, the best on-screen romances are. And I just, like, when I watched that scene, I was like, oh, right. And I was, like, just, like, taking pictures of it on my phone. I was like, I just need to remember this, even though I could watch. it literally at any time. So I love that part. And then for me, much like Nora, I'm an East Coast kid. I had never been to California when I watched this. And so the idea, first of all, I'd never heard of Comic-Con. So that's like, this was the first time the concept came into my mind. I didn't know that, like, you could just drive to Mexico. I'm like really bad geography

because I'm from New York. And so I didn't know that like they were so close to Tijuana. I didn't really understand this idea of like a teen getaway like before school like it had all these new concepts and then that because of because of the drama of it is so well executed alongside of the the comedy of Seth and Summer. It just became this like punctuation point on this incredible seven episode arc that also introduced like all these really rich pop culture phenomena to me. So I like truly never forgotten it. And then the Massey Star needle drop at the end is. is so good. And as not only a East Coast kid, but a WB kid, Mazzie Start had already cemented herself in my brain. So I don't know. It just sort of like, I was 17. I just started

my senior year of high school. And so like all this stuff was just so resonant. And it sort of like just like opened up a pop culture portal for me of things I had never heard of before. So I don't know. It really meant a lot to me. It continues to, I guess. Like donkey shows? Is that also on the list of pop culture touchstones? You know, I think like buying drugs in Mexico is like something that I had never considered. I'm not sure that I really like knew what was going on. But like then having lived in California, I was like, oh, people do think about like buying drugs in Mexico.

And yeah, I also think at this time I had never left the country. So like that was also really impactful. And actually I'd been to Canada, but does that count? So I don't know. It just was like, it just was really interesting. And yeah, I think the Comic-Con thing, just because it is so mainstream now, is really funny to think back on of, like, not having heard of it. And also, like, you know, this annual pilgrimage to San Diego, which is now, like, just so common and so corporate. I mean, especially since Seth had been going since he was 10, so he was, like, a real Comic-Con hipster.

Like, a real, like, really before it was a sell-out sort of convention. Nora, what does episode 7 mean to you? I have to say, this episode is not canon to me in the same. way that I think it is clearly canon to Juliet. That's insane, Nora. I'm sorry. To a lot of people, I think because I feel very strongly that if, like, and I have an analogous feeling with Gossip Girl where like if somebody is, if somebody is a Serena rather than

a Blair, I do not trust them. If somebody is a Ryan and Marissa head over a Seth and Summerhead, I just like, I'm sorry. I disagree with everything and everything that they stand for. And this was a real period of just, oh my gosh, how many times are these two going to almost figure it out and be together? And then something's going to get in the way and the timing is going to get in the way. And obviously that happens in the girlfriend. And then I think I just felt like this episode was so dominated by Ryan and Marissa sort of griping at each other. but the Seth and summer pieces are perfect.

Perfect. And you can see. It's per, I mean, and it's like one guitar and a whole lot of complaining. One of the best lines of the entire show. And the introduction, like you can see. So one of the things that I thought was most interesting going back and rewatching this is I didn't remember how much sort of connective tissue to what the show would later become that you can see here. because you can see, and they tried to see it originally

Marissa as one of the, like, core music heads, which you guys talked about. And I think they realized that that didn't really make sense and that it just had to go, it had to run through stuff. You don't think Marissa listens to the cramps? Like, you don't think? I don't. I personally do not, actually.

You don't think her favorite book is on the road? Okay. That's good to know. And you know what, to Josh Schwartz's credit. I think a few episodes into this, he went, no. Like, this is Seth Cohn's chick. And so you see the introduction of, like, the death cab fandom being so important to him, which was, again, this was the last episode without Alex doing the music supervision. And once she came back, that's when they started seating ways for it to become bigger and bigger and bigger leading up to the introduction of the bait shop and having Rooney as the first artist to perform.

But, like, you start to see them trying to make Luke sympathetic in a way that he just had not been. He was like, no, I can't. And then she loves the song. And then we had to. And then you see it with Summer, right? And I actually, I think it's done really well in these episodes where she says some pretty bad things. She seems not thrilled that Seth is Jewish, which is an interesting mirror. to Caleb, right?

Right. Shalom Sandy. Yeah, the back-to-back of Shalom, Sandy, and then, you? Like, you're Jewish. I was like, all right, here we are. But it, like, it paints a picture of the environment, right? And, like, it's interesting with Caleb, too, because he is the guy who, you know, he's the Tuscan Farmhouse McMansion creator. He's built this world, and summer is of this world.

So it kind of makes sense that he's going to have, that she's going to have certain beliefs that he would as well. well, but you also see her have the scene with Seth and start to show a little bit of depth, make cracks like the one guitar and a whole lot of complaining that are just so perfect where you're like, okay, this girl is smart on some level. And she's really kind to Marissa and she's a good friend. And some of that, like, you see them piecing it together and you see them going, okay, this actually has to be a Seth and Summer Show because they're perfect and they're amazing. And we have to reverse engineer that a little bit. So I think, like, you can see.

where those pieces had to fit together a little bit, I think, where do you watch it back? But to me, the things that are amazing about these episodes are the real, the first kiss in episode six for Seth and Summer and the beginning of the two of them. I wish I was a mermaid. Me too. I actually liked the girlfriend more than Juliet does because I felt like our first foray into summer being an actual person. and, you know, I even loved her little, like, going around and trying to flirt with every, like, investment banker that was at the party and something like that. I've been reading Forbes.

Yeah, and the kiss and all that sorts. Like, she had, you know, she's funny. She had depth. She felt like a better friend to Marissa than she had been, like, when she left her passed out on the driveway in the first episode, etc. And so, like, summer as a good friend, summer as screwball. comedy, witty banter, partner for Seth, like, all that sort of stuff is part of what cements the core of the show, which I think all three of us agree is a Seth and Summer show. And so the road trip, the like, the screwball comedy, like, it happened one night

road trip energy of the two of them. I agree. It's almost like front seats in one show and back seats in a different show altogether. And it's like, we would all rather be watching the show is happening in the front seat. But together, it's, like, teen show magic. And I mean, like, the image of Ryan carrying Marissa out of the out, like, I don't really care about Ryan Marissa personally. But, like, in terms of, like, an indelible TV image, in terms of, like, a massive TV cliffhanger, in terms of, like, a needle drop moment, an iconic needle drop moment.

Like, it's kind of hard to deny the icon. of all of that. I also thought it was really interesting. I didn't know this, but they shot this episode on 16mm. Like they, you know, you were talking about the composition of shots. Like there's, there's also the composition of like all four of them together, but alone seeming in the motel room as they're like going to sleep. Yeah. Yeah. There's just some like beautiful, like thoughtful framing that of, you know, a Fox summer teen soap doesn't necessarily have to aim for, but this episode does. So yeah, I thought that was, there's a, yeah, there's a lot to love.

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Like, it's something that happens on TV, you know, every once in a while. On Dawson's Creek, it's at the end of season three when Joey and Pacey have gone off on the boat. And Andy says to Dawson, it's our pain that makes us real, Dawson. And there's like this whole speech about like they can't, you know, I think she said something like, those four were, Dawson says, like, I just need to be alone. And she says, like, those are four words we hear

once far too often around here. Like, there's something about like the solidification of, of friendship on TV that I find really moving. This is a very common theme for me on basically every podcast I'm ever on. It's like I really loved beautiful depictions of friendship. And so I think seeing also, as Nora said, some are like really supporting Marissa and just kind of like, these people finding each other.

is sort of like exciting. And it has like a real momentum to it that also contributed to it being such a good cliffhanger. Because you're like, well, okay, Ryan and Marissa aren't together, but Seth and Summer are finding each other. But ultimately, the four of them just have this awesome trip together. And it's sort of like, if you guys are gone to a wedding where you've made wedding friends, we're like, it's a destination wedding. I love a definition of awesome trip ends in a like OD.

That's fine. The streets of D-O-O-D. They drove off the road. A memorable trip? Yeah, a memorable. It was looking up with Holly at the grossest bar I've ever seen. They're trauma bonded. They're trauma bonded by this awesome trip.

And it reminds me of, like, what I've gone to, like, destination weddings. And I've, like, made a really close friend for the 72 hours of this destination wedding. And then you move on. And I feel like that was they all remained friends. But, like, it was just, again, like, you know, it was a, it was a friendship trip. And I loved it. Well, that is that, look, the beauty of Seth and Summer is the beauty of Seth and Summer. But initially, Seth and Summer at least being willing to interact with each other and having

reasons to be together is what made the foursome a foursome. So when they get together, you are also seeing even the scene where they're getting burritos or whatever and Seth and Seth and Seth and Seth and Ryan walk up and they go, oh, should we, should we turn around? But then they go and Summer says to Seth, do you want to go? Like, let's go get condiments. which leads to the finger licking. It's one of the first times when you realize that, like, they're going to, all four of them

are going to be in spaces together and they're going to be peeling off in different ways and interacting in different, in all the different diagonals of that. And it's, it's exciting, man. Like, they're just a good bunch. And it's fun to see them together. I want to talk about, I agree with you. I want to talk about sex briefly. And first of all, I love that.

Like, I feel like we. I can say Luke canonical bad at sex. Like that's, that's where we stand at least as far as episode seven. At least teenage Luke, who knows, but hopefully he grew. But, you know, as a human. I'm sure he did. I believe in him. Something that Julia and I have been enjoying, I hope it's okay for me to see this.

Something we've been enjoying on the side is like Bill's on vacation, but he and his daughter are watching the OC. So we're getting like updates from their family watch. And Zoe's like, her, her biggest bump was. on the idea that Summer was a virgin. What I think is interesting is that, like, in these episodes, in episode seven, et cetera, like, she's talking like she's not. And I don't mind, I don't think of it as a retcon because I'm like, I could clearly see a teenage girl pretending that she knows it gets better the second time, all this sort of stuff when she's a virgin. Yeah, like, she was repeating things that she read in a magazine.

Right, exactly. Right. She's like, according to YM. Yeah. Exactly. Which we all did. We all did. Exactly.

Of course. I don't see it as a problem. Nora, how do you feel about how sex is treated in these two episodes are in the show in general, teen sex? You can rope Gabrielle into it as well if you want. It's a little all over the place. I do think, like I think it works for the, I'm fine with it. I think it works for the plot line that this is something that Marissa is thinking about a lot. I think if it really comes down to it in that community,

it's not quite so precious. Like I think a lot of those kids would be having sex. I buy that Summer had. And while it's totally believable to me that she would be parroting, you know, a Cosmo that she had stashed underneath her bed and her mom found once, which is absolutely not something that ever happened to me when I was this age, I think it makes sense that she would have a certain fluency and want to talk to Marissa about it. I do, like, it's a little bit to me at odds with how much drug use there is.

But I guess it could, like, it seems, it's credible to me. Sometimes I'm like, okay, these kids do hard drugs in Mexico, but also it's very, very precious to talk about losing your virginity. I'm not totally buying that, but teenagers are complicated. The teen bonded host here, no better than anyone from watching you for you. Well, we watch sex education together, Juliet. How do you feel? I love. I love sex.

Like, everyone is having just an ungodly amount of sex. I think the sort of rash decision making really tracks. And so, you know, I think Luke being like, I feel like Luke's sexuality is like too pronounced and he's like too sure of himself, you know, like for a 17 year old boy. Like, even... Because he's 30. Because he's 30. I have to say, I said this on the last episode, but this rewatch, the, like, ridiculous ages of the actors really stands out to me.

So, like, I don't feel a lot of shock over Ryan and Gabrielle. Like, I'm just like, yeah, they're the same age. Like, checks out. Like, it's, like, very hard to be outraged by it. But I think that Luke is kind of more unrealistic to me than any other character. Like, I think some are, like, you know, speaking the language of having had sex and the way that Marissa is sort of like a little ambivalent about it, those things make more sense to me than Luke's like really, like, the way like Luke's

virility is, is played. Because I just feel like he has, he's like a little bit too and too in control of himself, but like not, obviously, you know, he can't resist Holly. But like, I don't know, teenage boys aren't really like that in my recollection. Well, and then Holly says the thing at the end when, when they've been caught where she starts yelling like he hooks up with everybody he hooks up with girls at u. everybody knows he hooks up with freshmen everybody knows i'm not sure luke could walk on to a college campus and have very much game maybe irvine though um maybe irvine wow i know like again

i don't my my suancy with california is very limited i know water polo has like a big um does it not in maybe in soCal not a northern california i have no idea If there's a lot of cultural capital tied up and being very good at water polo, then potentially that's where this is coming from. That's all I'm saying. I think what sex education captures so well, as Joanna and I've discussed, is just how everyone is awkward in their own way. And I do think that like both Ryan and Luke, the two kind of like, you know, offense, like the sort of like alpha males of the show, they're not awkward. And they lack that like, relate the relatable and like identifiable.

like even if, you know, they lost their virginity to really young age. They still don't have like the teen quality of like not being exactly sure what you're doing, not in the sort of broadest sense. And that's what I think like more modern shows capture so much better than the O.C. I felt, okay, so the Joanna hosts a podcast about nerd culture factoid that I want to bring into here from the Ring Reverse is, Seth definitely would have gotten late at Comic-Con. Like, nerds fuck. You know what I mean?

And so it's just sort of like this idea that like this was so early in the emergence of nerd culture as we talked about again and again and again as Seth Cohen is like, but like the idea that it's just like awkward versions who don't talk to each other, I'm like, that's not actually what Comic-Con is and nor was it then. And then also I would say he's far. I know that he is so adorably awkward and all this other stuff like that, but then there's ways in which he's not. Like, he's so in love with Summer, but he is like pushing back in a way that we love watching

because their energy is so good. But like, what does Seth Cohen devotedly in love with Summer, like, push back on her the way that he does in this episode? I don't think so. It makes for incredible television and I don't need it to be a documentary. But I'm just like, if we're clocking awkwardness levels of. characters. I'm like, Seth is actually far too confident, I think, in this episode, based on what we know about him. Do you know what I mean? Definitely. Yeah, but I think it's just, we need it,

though. Like, he needs to be able to stand up to her a little bit. Otherwise, absolutely. Also, you know, people fight on road trips, you know, and I just feel like that. And there's sort of like the frustration of like being in the car together where, I don't know, raises the tension. So maybe he just was like mad, but I agree with you. And also you just, you do not insult death cab. There's that too. But I think that's a good point about Seth in general is that the fact that he has like no friends anywhere and didn't have like people he may believe was like meeting at Comic-Con, like doesn't track.

It actually makes me think of American Pie, which for all of its flaws and datedness in some ways captures a lot of this much better. Like for example, the Allison Hannigan character, she had had sex, right? Because like Ban Camp was actually wild. But that was like a good point. And like the way that those sort of like jockey guys. were like pretty awkward about sex, I think would make more sense for a Luke than what we're actually getting. I don't want to bring us down from the high that is like Seth and some are on

the road together, but I fear we must before we go talk about the Cooper's. Only for these two reasons. Number one, Jimmy Cooper is bar graphs. And number two, Julie Cooper being an absolute badass closer with Caleb in the girlfriend episode, which I totally loved. Nora, where are you on the adult Cooper? So I'm so glad you brought up the bar graph. Just an unbelievable. So if anybody doesn't remember, hasn't rewatched this as recently as we have. What scene is it?

It's when Julie comes in and says that she wants to divorce. Yeah. Jimmy is in front of a computer screen that, just says Jimmy Cooper investment portfolio and has a sequence of just obviously descending bar and profit margin analysis. And then it's just the bar graphs are just going down. Jimmy Cooper has also been reading Forbes. It seems it's just a beautiful, beautiful detail.

I suppose these episodes do a good job of painting him as a hot mess. Express in this moment. But I was so, like, when he goes in for the kiss with Kirsten, I'm just like, Jimmy Cooper, I'm not on your side, man. Like, get it. I texted to John Bill at that moment. And my text to them was, I had forgotten that Jimmy Cooper was a loser. And I was like, oh, right.

He's not even, like, cool at trying to, you know, have an affair with his high school love who's also married. Like, what a loser. That makes me mad. He's, like, sweaty and being weird to Marissa and just going, like, Yeah, shitty dad, too. If we would end up together. No, thank you.

I know. Oh, also, no, my favorite detail, which we got actually in episode five, which is he has his prom photo with Kirsten still on the wall at his house. Jimmy Cooper is the biggest. Your next door neighbor and ex-girlfriend. You cannot hang that. You're married. The biggest loser in Newport is Jimmy Cooper. And when we were talking to Alan Seppinwell on the last episode that we recorded, he was,

was saying that the original plan for Jimmy was that for like Jimmy and Sandy and Kirsten to be in a like ongoing in depth love triangle sort of thing and when they realized that like everyone loves Sandy and Kirsten together and nobody wants Jimmy Cooper to touch Kirsten, then there's

like nothing for Tate Donovan to do on the show anymore and it's sort of like that's a real bumer. For Jimmy Cooper. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. Anything else we want to say about these two incredible episodes of television? The iconic time that was these seven weeks of summer.

Summer's over, as Sandy Cohen says in this episode seven. Sandy Cohen, only good eyebrows of 2003. Do you think Sandy is like personally responsible for ending the like overplucked eyebrow trend? I think he was before his time. Yeah. But a real revolutionary in that aspect. I feel like a young Kara Delavine was like. Like that's what I want on my face.

The thing that was funny. So it's funny that we're talking a little bit about Seth standing up for himself with Summer and how realistic that is. Because, and I think they did. I think they dressed Seth so well. And Adam Brody is just incredible. And all of that was pretty note perfect for its moment. I was watching these episodes and thinking, the tipped polos, the sort of 70s-esque stuff that Seth wears a lot of,

it is funny how that is, that has become an archetype of a very desirable man in in 2023. A kind of nerdy, bookish, but quippy and smart guy who's thoughtful and dressed like that is like pretty ideal. It's like a real fuckboy type. Yeah. A very specific kind. Here's something I'm going to admit on this podcast.

I don't exactly know what people mean when they say fuckboy because I feel like it has a sliding definition depending on who uses it. So what do you mean by fuckboy, Juliet? I mean it's someone who seems attainable and seems nice, but actually is like just juggling a lot of girls and is like just moving on quickly. So people are like cosplaying Seth Cohen. in order to mess around with people's hearts. You hate to see it. You don't want this to be the legacy of Seth Cohen. I know.

But it not in its time. It's just that if this show we're being made right now and Seth Cohen were Seth Cohen, we would be sitting here going, no, that doesn't work. Girls would be all over that guy. Oh, yeah. Yeah. The idea that like you could, like, well, the idea that you can like look like Adam Brody and be like smart and nice and he has zero friends and no.

girls want anything to do with him until this magical summer is, yeah, you know, but this is the O.C. It's a fantasy that they are serving to us and we loved consuming it. Anything else, Juliet, that you want to say about episode six or seven or this seven week run of a television series? Just that it's been an absolute joy to revisit it with you, Joanna. Thank you for the opportunity. And it's like, it's a really fun rewatch. It's a really wacky show. It's just, it's, it is one of a kind.

that does it for our OC rewatch and I'm sad it's over it went so quickly you can carry me in you can carry me out of the alley with the masi desk masi star playing don't worry joanna okay well you can track my plummeting emotions with a bar graph that just raised joanna robinson emotional investment portfolio it's just going down as we end this OC rewatch nora thank you so much for joining us check out her a wonderful piece on, is it just the music in the O.C? or is it it's more on, it's on Alex. But it's a lot of it is about the O.C. because of the anniversary and I love talking to those

bands and so many of those artists. It's just going to black. So that'll be next week and I hope people check it out. On the ringer.com, what a great website. And we will see you elsewhere in the prestige feed covering justified city primeval, covering the finale of hijack, I believe, is upcoming. Only mirrors of the building, winning time, etc. excited. There's a lot of stuff going on. Thanks to massive OC head, even though you didn't hear his voice in this podcast, the legend Bobby Wagner, who loves the OC. So shout out to Bobby and we'll see you soon. Bye.