The Prestige TV Podcast - ‘The Old Man’ Season 1, Episodes 1 and 2 Recap

Episode Date: June 22, 2022

Bill, Sean, and Joanna react to the first two episodes of FX’s ‘The Old Man,’ starring Jeff Bridges. The crew breaks down Bridges’s impressive performance, his Hollywood longevity, and where this show ranks among the best shows of 2022. Plus, why has FX not made this show more known to the public yet? Hosts: Bill Simmons, Sean Fennessey, Joanna Robinson Producer: Troy Farkas Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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We're going to talk about a show that is my favorite show of 2022 so far. Whoa. Wow. The old man. I've been a Bridges guy forever. I just loved this show. I intentionally read nothing about it. I knew nothing other than Jeff Bridges and John Lithgow were in it,

that there was some old FBI guy. But other than that, I didn't know anything. I'm just all in. I loved it. I devoured it. I thought it was great. I thought Bridges was unbelievable. I have no idea why they waited until after the Emmy deadline to release

the show because I feel like Bridges easily gets nominated and probably wins. But a huge thumbs up all the way around. We'll talk about all the reasons I loved it in a second. Sean, why did you like it? Definitely Bridges. Who doesn't like Jeff Bridges? That would be an American sin to say you're not a fan of Jeff Bridges. I've never been a single soul who isn't a fan of his. This is a very specific kind of TV thriller that I really like that FX historically has been very good at. And this checks a lot. of the boxes of things that I love. So I was hooked pretty quickly. And like you, Bill, I didn't know anything about it going in other than Bridges. I didn't even know who created the show. I didn't know it was based on a book. I don't know anything. So I'm just getting it all fresh.

And the slow trickle of information and the mystery thriller has been great so far. What did you know about it heading into it, Joanna? So I'm a big fan. So Robert Levine and Jonathan Steinberg, who co-created it, they did black sales, the star's sort of pirate show from a couple years ago that I think was really, really wildly underrated. I came to it late, but that was actually a phenomenal show when I finally got around watching it beautifully written, incredible action, all of that. And so I was a fan of theirs. And then actually, full disclosure, a friend of mine is writing on this show. So I was really anticipating it. And one of those things, if you have a friend who's working on a show, you get really

worried that it's not going to be good. And you have to lie to them and tell them you liked it. But that wasn't the case here. Absolutely loved it. And I loved the way that they took a very like bare bone spare spy thriller novel and put so much flesh on the bone with a lot of added characters and intrigue. So yeah, I was very grateful to love the first two episodes of the show. We're going to spoil a little bit of it. I got to talk about the five minute car scene. I just couldn't believe it. First of all, I don't know how they filmed it. is his old. I think he's, what is he, 72? He's over 70. You mean the fight at the conclusion of the first episode? Yes. Yeah. Um, which goes on and you think it ends and then it doesn't and it keeps going and it's just, it just comes out of nowhere. They're so deliberate with the first episode, right? It starts with the peeing and then he pees again and everything. And even when he kills the intruder, he feels like an old guy, right? We don't know that this is basically

Liam Neeson and taken multiplied by 100. And that car scene was absolutely out of control. I thought it was so well done. And they built up to it for 40, 45 minutes. Sean, that was like, that would have been one of the best movie scenes of the year, I feel like. It is incredible how it was blocked, right? Because that moment when his car comes out of the black and smashes into one of the CIA agents is one of the more jolting moments I can remember in recent television history. And then the the hand-to-hand combat, and it looks like Bridges there, it doesn't look like a stunt man in that, in that grappling battle with that guy.

And Bridges, I think he was 70 years old when he shot this. And it's pretty remarkable. I mean, on the one hand, you know, I'm sure we'll talk about how this show certainly does feel like a COVID production in some senses. There's very few sequences in which more than three people are in the frame. But on the other hand, I think that that gives this show like a real intimacy, like in the fight combat.

This isn't like him taking on 40 guys. you know, it's a real hand-to-hand kind of movie in a lot of different kinds of ways. So I was, I'm really just amazed with the way that they, the style that they've put onto, like Joe was saying, like what could be a pretty bare bones kind of piece of work. Joanna, did you feel like you're good at this stuff? How much of this are we sure actually happened? And how much of this is maybe an exaggerated version of what actually happened with him? Because that, that's the part I can't tell is what's real and what's.

what's fake. We've had dream sequences, like he has that dream sequence where he just kills Amy Brennan. Right. But I, I, I'm just worried about the unreliable narrator problem, which is something that I've always had trouble figuring out. But do you feel like we might have an unreliable narrator here? I mean, we also see him, he's haunted literally by, and one of the best sort of, you know, if you've watched a Christopher Nolan movie, you're familiar with a dead wife. But like, this is one of the scariest dead wives, I think, that we've seen the way she's lit. often from like below in this sort of very ghostly manner.

So yeah, I mean, he's definitely a haunted person. What I appreciate about that Amy Brennaman sequence is that it was over pretty quick. Like I didn't feel like they were trying to fool you. It was just sort of and the reason it's there is to acknowledge who this guy is, first of all, what he's capable of and then also what's weighing on him in terms of who he doesn't want to be. So it all sort of serves a purpose. I don't think we're being led by the nose too much at all. I don't think this is something that it's going to get out of control.

The way that the first episode starts, you're worried about his senility. I mean, he puts a cell phone in the microwave, right? So we don't know. I think it's a good thing to keep an eye on. I think that's right. And as far as the action, I thought you're going to ask me about how much the action was really Jeff Bridges. I don't have an answer to that. I will say they had him grow his hair long so that I could fly.

pop over his face so you could put a Suntebubble in there, right? Which is my favorite move. But it looks incredible. Like there's never a moment where I was like, clearly there's the guy with a snowy wig on, you know, a 20 year old guy being Jeff Bridges. Like the action's incredible. Sean, I'm sure you have, Bill, have you seen the movie Copcar, which is John Watts film before he got the Spider-Man movies?

Like I'm, I love his Spider-Man movies, but I'm excited to see him sort of liberated from marble action, which is, you know, plastic at best. and sort of back to this, you know, back to the roots of what got him the gang in the first place. It makes me really excited to see a talented filmmaker like that do something like this. I feel like this is being undersold right now that the director of the Spider-Man franchise directed a TV show on FX. I mean, John Watts, you know, he really like, as John is pointing out, in a way kind of like skipped a step in his rise to success as a director. He made that very small movie cop car and then he went right into three Spider-Men movies. And so what you would have wanted to see, I think, is kind of something like this.

maybe a movie format, but something a little bigger with a bigger movie star, with a bigger story, maybe some international intrigue like all spy stories have. But it's interesting to watch him revert back to a story like this after doing a bunch of Spider-Man movies. But it's pretty exciting. And like I said, I don't feel like many people are talking about the fact that the director of the biggest movie of 2021 has a TV show on the air right now, but he does. Well, the other thing I don't get, I just don't understand why this show wasn't pimped a little harder. I mean, they did some advertising for it, including I did a read for it on my podcast. I didn't even, you know, I assumed it was going to be good because it was FX and Bridges and

Lithgow, but I didn't know how much the quality was. But I mean, this is easily one of the best TV shows of 2022. I don't get it. I almost wonder if FX didn't know we were going to like it. Like, all they had to do is release it, what, three weeks sooner and they're in the Emmy thing. But just in general, like, it's weird to say this. But I feel like if this was an HBO show, it would be a bigger show. I mean, it was a room to grow. I feel like this is a show that's going to grow really well, right? With the FX on Hulu platform, I think this is a show that people are going to catch up on through word of mouth, through Chris and Andy talking about the watch, through us talking about it here.

I feel like this is something that has a chance to sort of blow up eventually. I don't, I don't quite know. I do know that FX is really crushing it this year. I think, I mean, that's that's not an. It's often crushing at FX. But I think right now with this, with the bear that's about to come out, which I think is incredible, an incredible show under the banner. Like, you know, they've got a lot of stuff where they're, the thing that I love about FX is that there was this real crunch time, you know, when they were acquired by Disney where I was really worried that the FX brand would sort of lose its place with the partnership with Hulu and all that sort of stuff. But I really feel like they've stuck to their guns in terms of picking these projects that are, you know, just.

incredible standout experiences. But yeah, I wish more people were watching this show, but I feel like it's going to grow. I really do. I think one of the reasons why it was delayed and it was delayed for a while is because Bridges had this double-barreled bout of illness to contend with. He had non-Hodgkins lymphoma and COVID in kind of in succession in this really tight window. And, you know, he said he felt like he was close to dying. And I think that part of the reason why this movie, this movie, I'm calling it a movie because it feels like a movie to me, this TV show was pushed just because I think they wanted him to be fully healthy so that he could help promote it and kind of be in front of it in the face of it.

But you're right, Bill, it does feel like pretty standard awards fair in a lot of ways. You know, this very like singular focus performance, really stylized thing. A classic, I don't think Bridges has an Emmy, does he? I don't think he's ever really done series television quite like this. So it's kind of an easy story to tell about somebody coming to this medium. but it is strange. And I wonder if one of the reasons why it's not as acclaimed is because we're having a little bit of a hangover. You know, I mean, April and May, that was a lot.

That was a lot of TV in a short period of time. And it was hard. I found it really hard, honestly, to juggle what I thought were mostly really good shows at the same time. And even the stuff that was disappointing for whatever reason I stuck with. And so this one, it just feels a little bit fresh. And I feel like my cue is not as piled up at the moment. So it's been nice to luxuriate in it. Well, the other thing.

is the audience for this show is really wide. Like, guess who loves the show? My 74-year-old dad. This checks, I think, every single box he has for a show, including the whole, you know, former CIA FBI guy with a secret, like whatever universe that's going to be in, he's in. The Bridges thing, you know, we have a long history with this guy. This guy goes back to Thunderbolt and Lightfoot with Quinny Stewart in like 1974.

He's, you know, son of a lot of him. an actor the whole thing, but this is where we're almost at 50 years of Jeff Bridges here. And he's one of the, oh, go ahead. Well, I just feel like we keep having these moments with him. Like, I feel like I remember this around Crazy Heart, right, the movie that won him an Oscar. Like there's a keep moments where people we keep going, oh, yeah, Jeff Bridges has so much to give us.

And he's like in his 70s and he's like, yeah, I still have so much to give you a one might. That's the coolest thing about his career. He's, he kind of pops up every couple. couple years, but there's an incredible consistency to him. He's not like, you know, where De Niro and Pacino had the incredible run, and then it faded off, and then it seemed like they were just doing jobs for checks for a while. But then every once in a while, they'll pop back up, but it still feels like they're really available. Bridges doesn't feel as available. I think that's one of the things

he's navigated. He's definitely not been as present as some other icons from his generation. I think there's also basically like three sections to his career. You know, there's like the young, handsome, almost like ingenue, like the beautiful boy who is the son of a famous actor who is a child star and then goes on to be like a young leading man and last picture show. And there's like the middle period where he's like a suave leading man. You know, he's like against all odds. Against all odds. Like,

movies like that. And then pretty much sicker boys. Fabulous baker boys. And he's kind of beautiful in all of those movies. Yeah. And ever since Lubowski, he looks more like the guy in this show. long hair, the beard. His voice has changed so much. He's become so craggy. I mean, he literally was rooster cogburn and true grit. He's a different dude now. And so I think that that's part of the

reason why we've been able to have this relationship with him is it's like, it's kind of like watching your dad get older or something. You know, it's like, oh, he has facial hair now. Oh, his hair is a little longer now. Oh, he's retired. Oh, but he can still kick your ass. You know, like, there's something very familiar and warm about him, but also like still a little bit unpredictable. And I think the I thought the vanishing was the one where that was like, oh, this guy's really interesting. He's not just going to be the handsome leading man. He's going to do some weird-ass shit because the vanishing, he's probably like 10 years too young for that part. And then it's Big Lebowski.

But then all of a sudden, he was the president and the contender. And he's one of my favorite Hollywood presidents we found in a movie. And then he starts getting, I remember he came into my office for a podcast like four years ago when we were in the Hollywood studio. And it was like striking how old he looked. It kind of looked like the old man, you know, because he seems so young and vibrant in a lot of these movies. You're like, oh, yeah, he's like, he's almost 70 now. What else stands out for you with Bridges, Joanna?

Well, I was actually going to, to veer because you brought up De Niro Pacino so, like, I can't help but ask like to the foremost heat experts in the world, like what they think of the heat vibes coming off of this, the casting of Amy Brennam. Like, so Robert Levine, I was scrolling through his Twitter. He worked on judging Amy. It was like one of the first jobs he had. So he is known Amy Brennan, like from way back in the judging Amy days, which is sort of why he cast her in this. This part is greatly sort of expanded and deepened from how it was in the book.

As far as I know, the way this character appears in the book is very confounding in that you're just sort of confused why this woman would be wrapped up in this guy's world and the way that they write. Because he can make eggs. Yeah. That's it. That's all she needed. But it works. Like that scene works, you know. And so I think that casting her is so key and such an interesting sort of wink at the heat dynamic that we have here.

I was wondering what you guys thought of that. Well, it's like the, it's a book about medals. Why so interesting what I do, lady? It's the same kind of thing. Look, I fucking love Amy Brennerman. I mean, all time. I own all the stock. Season 1, NYPD Blue.

You were old enough to start watching that show when it was on, right, Sean? Yeah, of course. It scandalized a 14-year-old me. Oh my God. She was so good in that show. And I just had season tickets for all Amy Brennam. I didn't watch judging Amy because I don't watch the procedural shows. But even the Slice Stallone movie she was in,

he always kind of watching her. She's in L.A. school mom was always like, if I ever ran into her, she'd be one of the few celebrities. I'd be like, I love your work. She has this ability. And this is like a perfect role for her of she seems attainting. but she's also gorgeous, but she's also like she almost seems like she's damaged in some way. She's a good way, as in that the character she's playing.

It just always seems complicated right away and you're kind of like, I want to go into this. What's going on with this lady? Is there more under there? And I don't know how she does it, but there's, Sean, like how many actresses where from the first second you're like, oh, something's going on with this lady. I want to know more. I don't know how she does it. Yeah, she's an under the surface kind of performer.

I think she always kind of pursues parts where you feel like there's more for the character to share that she's not sharing right away. And what's interesting about this character is, I love that sequence and they go to dinner. And they kind of share their stories and she shares her story twice. And it's, this is very, I mean this like, as a compliment, this show is overwritten. Like there is, it is novelistic and there is like external interior monologue happening a lot of the time. But I like when shows do that, honestly. And I like getting to know characters a little bit more quickly in a space like this. And her character is very self-aware about the circumstances of her life and the way that she talks about her life. And it makes her more appealing to Jeff Bridges' character. In some ways,

I think he's attracted to her and he finds her nice to be around. And in other ways, he's a CIA agent who knows how to take advantage of people. And so you see there's this like duality between his feelings about her. And it just, it makes the show and it makes their relationships click a lot. faster than they normally would have. If these two real people, if this ex-CIA agent on the run and this divorced woman who owns a home that she's renting out, we're actually going to have dinner, what would they talk about? They talk about their favorite movie and they talk about where they went to high school and they talk about the pleasantries of life and getting to no one another, but we get this like emotionally traumatic scene right off the bat in part because I think

Amy Brennaman does what you're describing bill, which is like she has a real gravitas as an actor. You know, she brings like an intensity and gravity to the roles that she has, even if the parts are a little underwritten, which like, you know, is Eady and Heat the most well-written character of all time? Not really. Not at all. But you kind of believe that De Niro would do anything to be with her. And so that's a, I think that's a credit to her as an actor. And that's a choice you make when you cast Amy Brennaman, right? In that role like that role like that role. Like there's definitely, that role and he is thin, but there's definitely like billions of actresses you could put in that role and you wouldn't even remember a single scene she had. with Pacino, but that's, or with Narrow, but that's not the case here. Can I talk about, okay, there's another tricky thing, because I don't think it's a spoiler, but I don't quite know how to talk about it. Can we talk about Alia Shawcat in this show? Because I've watched a lot of Alia Shaqat. I know what her voice sounds like.

So we've heard her voice in the show, right? Do you guys know what I'm talking about? I know no spoilers. I know no spoilers. I promise you. I've only watched first two episodes. But she's playing his daughter. Like, that's her voice on the phone when he's talking to his daughter, Emily.

That's 100% of Aaliyah Shaqat. Who's playing this, like, agent who's working with John Lithgow, you know. I thought it, but I thought they sounded very similar, but I thought it was a coincidence. So you're convinced it's the same voice. That's what I think. And I think the fact that you cast Aliya Shoket, who, you know, her father is from Iraq and her, you know, and her mother is white, like, to play the daughter of Jeff Bridges and this woman. Like, it makes sense to me.

This woman, you mean the succession, mom. Come on. Yes. I am a boss. Yeah. I'm a boss. Who's incredible. Who's incredible.

But yeah, like, it's, uh, I don't know. Like, I swear to you on a stack of airport spy novels, I don't know any spoilers at all. But it is odd to me because as soon as I heard it, I heard, as soon as I heard of why, I was like, I think that's Alia Shawcat, but they seem to be hiding the ball a little bit, but not too much, right? They didn't like, they're not doing it over text message only or, you know, whatever. She's another one who's just a really distinct actress who I really like, who can play different characters, but I always feel like it's her, which is the same way I feel about Amy Brennamet. But going back to NYPD Blue, so season one, she falls in love with Caruso's character, right? And I can't remember.

I haven't seen a million years. but at the time it was the best season of TV I've ever seen in my life. And now I think other, once the cable and Sopranos and Oz and those shows started coming in and ER, you know, it all went to another level. But I remember she violated some law or she did something. And then the second half of that season was about her with the secret and whether she had to give up the job. And she's just carrying all this baggage and weight. I almost wonder, like, she's so good in that season. that these people who make TV shows and movies

must constantly have her in mind when they have a character like that. It's complicated. I'm carrying all this weight. I have a secret. She would be one of the go-to ones if I was kind of like, oh, let's see if we can get Amy Brennerman. And I almost wonder if that's fair for her.

I mean, it might be the kind of part that she likes. You know, it might be what she looks for, you know, in a character. I mean, Alicia Shock had the same thing. She's like, in five seasons, a search party, a character carrying a secret the whole time. And she might be carrying a secret that Joanna just put her finger on. So, you know, like, it might be, and it might be, like, certain kinds of performance.

So I feel about Joanna. I was feeling like when we do pods with Joanna, there's a secret. She's a secret. She's something back. Yeah, there's like a body in the attic. Who knows? I don't know what she's up to. Secretly Jeff Bridges's daughter, I wish.

No, and I was thinking about Amy Brennam's career. Like, to do judging Amy and then she did private practice a show that I didn't watch, but was, like, hugely successful at a long run. Then she did the leftovers, incredibly, like, lauded. No, she's doing that. It's like how many, how many long-running or like awards-worthy shows could any Amy Brennerman pop up in? But I think, I think to your point about secrets and, like, things unfolding, like, I think the way that they're parceling out this mystery is so fun and interesting. Because listening to Chris Nandy talk about this, something that I love that they've done here is that there's a lot we don't know, right?

We've gotten some glimpses of what's going on with, you know, Kabul and, like, all sorts of. of stuff back in the day, but I think that we never don't know what the characters want or what they're trying to accomplish. And there are some other shows maybe currently airing right now, maybe in the Star Wars universe, etc.

That like my frustration with holding back mysteries means I don't understand what the characters are motivated by at all. And so to be able to hold back from us while giving us character archetypes maybe that we completely understand, I think is the

genius of this show so far. Well, we didn't mention Lithgow yet. He's usually just John Lithgow and whatever thing he's in. He's usually his motivations are different, but I always feel like he's just him, but I always love watching him. And this is a good role for him. Like his accent might kick up or down a little bit, but for the most part, he just, he just brings the Lithgow.

And he's perfect in this. He's either, like, extremely evil or extremely warm. And avuncular. You know, there's like, third rock from the Sun Lithgow, and then there's Raising Kane Lithgow. And this one is trying to thread the needle between the two, you know?

Like, it's really, there is something kind of familial and warm about the character that he's playing, but you also know that he was a party to some bad shit in the 80s. Right. Like, that's basically what this show is telling us. And so he's really well cast, I think.

It's interesting you went with Raising Kane Lithgow and not Dexter Lithgow. I mean, that's like a sequel. That's basically an instrument. That character doesn't exist without Raising Kane Because I think that was the highlight of his career. My personal opinion, I might be wrong.

I thought that Dexter season was one of the best seasons that TV I've ever seen. And that's weird because that's a show that then went off a quiff and had a terrible season finale. And I think kind of vanished from when people talk

about the prestige shows of the 21st century, Dexter's not in there. It went on too long. They should have just done 30 episodes. It actually should have ended after, spoiler, Lithgow kills Dexter's wife. And that should have been it.

That should have just been the final episode. He was amazing in that. But he's another one who's just been around a long time, right? Like, he's the bad guy in blowout. That movie came out in 1981. He's in World Accord in the Garp, which was a pretty revolutionary role at the time. He played Roberta. Yeah, he told Kevin Bacon, he couldn't dance, you know?

Right. No, it's funny. I saw Raising Kane way too young. And that means I never trust Don Lithgow, no matter what's going on. You can't. So, like, even all through Third Rock from the Sun, I'm like, no, you might seem like a genial alien, but I don't trust you one bit. Yeah. Well, you know, it's another good one with him was it was after Die Hard when everybody was just trying to have the action movie Alan Rickman character.

And they're all bad. But then Lithgow's in Cliffhanger. And he's fucking awesome. He's having so much fun. He crushes that movie. We haven't done that for rewatchables yet, but I think he wins that movie. But it's just any of those type of roles, I just think he owns it. I think he's probably burned into our memory because in the early 90s, he has this string of evil roles where he's in ricochet raising cane and cliffhanger all in a row.

Ricochet is a bonkers movie. Underrated. Just crazy. What is he doing that to Denzel? He like frames him for, he gives him VD? He drugs him and then films him with a prostitute. And then like,

Threatens, shows it to us. That's crazy. Crazy movie. But he's like a killer who gets out and then seeks revenge on the cop who put him in prison, but then Denzel is a lawyer. It's a great one. I saw it all the time as a kid. Anyway, that's why I'm fucked up and like all these movies because I watch

Rickshay nonstop. But Lickout, I have the same relationship that Joe does, which is like, he's not to be trusted. And so he's very, very well cast in this part. Because you know that shit's going to go sideways with him on this show. But what I love about this dynamic is that I watch, you know, because we're not doing press conferences in person, I watched through the Zoom, the old man press conference that they had a couple months ago just because I wanted to sort of bask in Jeff Daniels, John Lithgow. And most of the questions were for them.

The rest of the talented cast was there. But most people, most journalists were asking these two legends, of course, questions. And basically they just sat there just talking about how much they loved working together and how thrilled they were to finally work together because, you know, these are, you know, we could, we just laid out both of their CVs that stretched back so far. But they, you know, and they're both highly decorated performers, but they've never worked together. So imagine getting to sit, you know, I don't, I don't know, you know, if they'll ever not be on either side of a phone call with each other.

I don't know. Yeah. But like, imagine getting to work with someone who can like really match you for, you know, depth of experience and veteran, but they both just seem like, you know, Jeff, Jeff, Jeff Bridges for all of his depth, all of his under the surface work, is not a complicated actor guy. He's just like, I just like to, I show up man and I do the project, a little like dude when he describes how he approaches his work. I think they're both like that.

They're just sort of like, we just show up. We're just that good. And we have a great time. And we don't need to bother anyone with our process or anything like that. were just great at what we do. And so, you know, by all reports, this was a phenomenal, a phenomenal, phenomenally fun set to work on. And you wouldn't know because it looks grueling, given all the action and all the other things that they have to do. But yeah, I think that sets up like the premise of the show, too, which is it's basically like you said, it's an airport novel from the studio that brought you the Americans.

You know what I mean? Like, you know it's going to be a little bit more elegant and developed. and high-minded, but it's just a cool thriller. And I still think that's like what TV is really good for. I think we sometimes get a little lost in needing to have this deep meaning in our television shows because of some of the, basically like what the industry has become in the last 20 years. But I was content with this show just being like the slow trickling of information in a spy series. Two important caveats we have not talked about.

Well, we talked about one of these a little bit. You talked about how the scenes are long. it's one of those both episodes feel like they intentionally write now I know it's based off a book but if you're an actor and you're just reading the script and you're like Amy Brennamen and you're reading the dinner scene you're like wow this is great I got like six pages here I sometimes there's value in that I like when I like when the writer's like you know what here's a long scene I want my actor to cook and I don't know if TV shows do that enough anymore you know or it's just like these two are going to go to dinner

and shit's going to go down her. Jeff Bridge is going to make her eggs, and somehow over the course of four minutes, she's going to fall for him and decide that she should. So anyway, I like that. But really, the star of this show, there's two stars, and it's the two dogs. Dave and Carol.

Oh, my God. This is, we're only two in. I don't know. I just know if something happens to these dogs, I'm going to flip out. I have the same response. I want to type in, like, to Does the Dog Die.com,

I'll be very stressed. Just name me. When you're talking about the greatest ways dogs have been used in TV shows or movies, like obviously Baxter and Anchorman's probably a 10 out of 10. He could talk different languages. He can talk to the bears. He's just an incredible, just an incredible key part of that movie. But these two dogs, holy shit.

I was like in awe of them, how in command he was of the dogs. And it was just such a cool device for this movie. I loved it. I mean, the moment when, so he, you know, he's giving them, they're terrified. right and he's giving them commands in German which is an added layer of terrifying right but the moment yeah exactly the moment when he you know he's zip tied thrown in a car drive off and I'm like oh no is that what is going to happen to his dogs is that like I generally got suckered in I was like is that it for the dogs who's going to feed the dogs in the middle

of nowhere what's going to happen and so and then I I forgot you know the the fight in the car went on long enough that I forgot about them so that when he just like drops one of those commands and the camera pans around and you see that, oh, man. I was waiting for him. I was like, where are the fuck are the dogs? How are they not getting involved in this five-minute fight? Come on. They got me.

I thought he drew far enough away. They'd never catch up, but I should have not underestimated Dave and Carroll. And the command he gives in that moment I looked up is bite. And I'm just like, oh, my God. Well, the other thing is they do such a good job of capturing the old person who's been alone too long and thinks the dogs are just absolutely 100% human. because even when he gets away, he calls his daughter. And he's like, they came after me.

I'm fine. The dogs are fine. And you're thinking like, why the fuck does she care of the dogs are fine? But it's like it's his kids. And that's how he treats it. And even when Amy Braterman's character says, you know, we can't have dogs, he's like, he's actually offended. He's like, these aren't dogs. These are my children.

You don't understand. They're so well trained. They just come out and like sit by him patiently. Like, you know, looking docile. You wouldn't think they just try to bite the face off a man. You know, like, it's just, yeah, it's really incredible. There's also a lot of devices. The dogs are one of them.

The phone calls to his daughter or another. And then obviously having Amy Brenman there. But when you got a guy on the run story, you have to give him someone to talk to. It's the old like, you know, Jason Bourne conundrum, right? Like who's he going to monologue too so we get the exposition that we need and stuff like that. But I love that one of them is just like him muttering to his dogs in the first episode about like how he's going to have to go back to go to the dog. doctor on Thursday because he doesn't like his doctor's son and stuff like that. Like it's just a really clever little things written in there to give us like a

almost constantly monologuing Jeff Bridges, which what else could you ask for from a TV show? And creepy, creepy wife flashbacks too. That's the other device. Yeah, they have they have four devices that even though this guy is alone for most of the show, he's still, there's still people passing through him. So Sean, what do we think happens? I know nothing. I have only watched these two episodes.

The third one is coming out tonight on FX and I think eventually Hulu. And then we only have five left. I assume there's a whole can of worms that's about to be opened. And the worms are going to go everywhere, but I don't know what the worms are. Well, it's a two-track story, right? It's what happened in whatever it is, the 70s or the 80s in the Middle East and what his character did and what he was a party to and what John Lithgow's character was a party to. and how he met his wife. And is it Hamzad?

Is he the figure who's sort of like looming over this story? And then there's the present day man on the run scene. And will he develop his relationship with Amy Brennaman? Or will he move on to another town? I'll be honest. Joanna knows this from having potted about succession with me. I'm not really into that game of what happens next. I'm not a guesser of what happens next.

I love stories. So I want to wait to find out what the story tells me. I do think that this is the kind of show that ends with like a noble death. And I wonder who will die. You know, when you're an old man, that signals the end of a life. And so it'll be interesting to see kind of how they unfurl this and how they reveal who his daughter is and how they, you know, pitch a reunion. But I'm not good to get some shows. And if we have new characters that might be popping up over the next five.

I have, Joanne, I have two flaws. Okay. One is we set up early that this guy has to pee like four times the night during the night. Very relatable as I get older, Bill. Very relatable. But then next episode, he's just getting it on with Amy Brennan and just sleeping through the night. So I didn't really. He has a wide and diverse pill arsenal.

This is established in dinner. Apparently. Apparently that pill was traveling with a pharmacy. That pill was really working for him. That's one. Two is I don't fully understand why Lithgow wasn't just good with. having that transponder under the car and just, hey, let's just capture this guy. Just grab him.

So what would be Lithgow's motivation for letting him get away, but then also still trying to catch him? I didn't get that. My understanding from the first two episodes is that Lithgow's character, we get flashback actors for both of these characters, I think really well cast. Christopher Redmond is doing a young Jonathan Lithgow and Bill Hemp, heck is doing, I think, an incredible young Jeff Bridges. And that back in the day, when whatever went down in, I guess, in 1989, they're really stretching it.

They keep saying 30 years ago. And I'm like, it's 20, 22, 30 years. Like, 1989 is sort of the end of the Soviet. Anyway, whatever. That Lithka's character helped Bridges' character disappear, was somehow complicit in that, perhaps because of his affinity for him. or something. He's somehow involved. And if Bridges is caught, whatever is hidden about Lithgow will also come out. And so he is personally invested. And his first idea was like, maybe I'll

just encourage him to disappear again and then we don't have to deal with this at all. But given what happened, given what Bridges did, this is sort of what one of the younger agents said, given that Bridges came barreling out of the night with his SUV and crashed the other one, forced Lithgow to now be in charge of the hunt for him. And so now I think Lithgow is invested on disappearing him. Like that seemed to be this whole interaction that he had with Joel Gray's character. I wanted to mention that briefly. By the way, Joe Gray.

Yeah, that's why I wanted to. We need to give him a shout out too. Yeah. Who knew Joe Gray was still acting? Who knew Joe Gray was alive? Joel Gray has this whole second career as a photographer. Just FYI folks want to know what Joel Gray has been up to. He's like done photography books, but I would much prefer him to show up and just like menacingly oil paint and never make eye contact with John Lithgow in his scene.

But it seems like he's trying to like because of their old friendship or whatever, step one was trying to get Bridges to disappear himself. And then step two is to disappear him before he has a chance to spill any secrets about John Lithgow. So they're all working their own agenda. here at the end of the day. So I think the younger actors, I know with the Grantland series we're developing, Sean and Chris are playing themselves, but they are using younger actors for me. Yeah. In 2011, 12.

Who is the, who are we getting? I don't want to spoil it, but it's Chris Evans. He's going to play me. Okay. He needs, yeah, another mass hole. Yeah, two messholes. You know, we go way back. Like, is he keeping the cop stash that he has right now?

Is he not how deep is the accent work? Like, whatever? We made him shave it. All right. So favorite shows of 2022, we're halfway through. How high is this for you? Sean, you go first. I mean, I just wrapped this Barry thing with Bill Hater, you know?

So I was pretty invested in Barry this year and I really enjoyed it. What a flex, Sean. I don't know her. By the way, Barry's in the running. Yeah, I really enjoyed it. I also loved, we, we, we, crashed is up there for me, but I think it was just because, and Joanne, we talked about it, but just how insane Hathaway and Jared Lotto was, I just really loved it. I just loved the

performances. I don't know how great the show was, but I would have that up there as well. I think we own the city, Severance. We own the city is a good one, too. I tell you, I just finished the staircase. I'm so sorry, I missed the pod with you guys with the staircase, which I thought was a fascinating piece of content. I don't know if I thought it was good, but I thought it was fascinating. Are you an owl truther, Sean? Yeah. No. Did you weigh in on that, Sean? I'm not. And I'll tell you, I did listen to your conversation. I did watch every single minute of the documentaries over the years. And so I've been, I've devoted over 25 hours of my life to this story for some God forsaken reasons. It's a whole day. It's insane. And I don't, I regret some of that, but I'm not an

owl truther. I'll just, I'll just share that publicly. But anyway, I don't think the staircase is one of the best shows of the year so far, but I've heard great things about the bear like Joanna mentioned earlier. really excited about that one too there's a lot of good stuff coming what's number one for you joanna it's hard um pachinko was really extraordinary um that almost didn't feel like tv though um in that constant blurring of film and tv um i think there's this show on right now dark winds which i think you both would really really like i haven't seen that yet um it's on a hamc um and it's on mcclard and it's like uh it's a tony hillerman it's a it's a tony hillerman it's a another airport dad book adaptation.

I love an airport dad TV show, airport dad book TV show. But Dark Winds is really interesting. Yeah, this is up there. I've only seen two episodes, though. It's hard to judge off of two episodes. But I will save Bear, which is dropping all episodes at once, is like pretty extraordinary. It's really stuck in my brain. It's a real Chicago show if people are Chicago people listening to this.

they might want to check it out. So, yeah, I'm hoping this day is quality throughout. But having gone through the Black Sales experience, I have a lot of faith in these guys. Like, they really, really landed the plane on that show. And I'm really glad that they've been given this opportunity. And then they're doing Percy Jackson. I have a lot of questions about how you're going from the old man of Percy Jackson, but I'm going to find out.

We'll see. That's bizarre. Bill, what's your favorite? Yeah. I would have we own this city and Barry probably in the 1A and 1B right now in some order. We own this city. I don't, it's almost hard to even think about that as a TV show.

I don't, I don't know where, even where to classify that, you know, because it was based on a true story. It was only six episodes, but I just thought, I just love that show. This is like, you know, Barry's another one. And it's like, I don't even know how to classify that show. I think one of the things I liked about the old man is it's just an old school one-hour drama that there's, you know, it's a one sentence description. and there's one one real plot we're trying to figure out.

And I don't know. I just sometimes sometimes you need those. Yeah, not only that, but it's airing on FX on Hulu, but also on FX, I believe, right? And so it's got act out commercial breaks in a way that like a lot of streaming shows don't have anymore. But when you like you cut to a commercial in a way and like the scene ends in a way where they're intending you to just sort of take a beat and a pause and then we're going to move on to the next thing. And that's like a dying art in the world of TV storytelling is the act out. And I love that this show has them. I'll tell you what's a candidate for show of the year, according to my daughter.

The summer I turned pretty on Amazon, she's about as delighted by a show as I think she's been since Outer Bank. She was like, this show just gets me. She was like, that was one of those things for her. She said it's like checks all the boxes and it's a thing, apparently. Is it anything like Outer Banks? It is not anything like Outer Banks. It is your classic.

I mean, teens on a beach. That's the overlap, right? The algorithm is spitting this one out now. It's like, it's summer. It's a girl who's starting to become prettier and guys are starting to get attracted to her. And then there's things happening and plots and parents. That's going to work.

That's based on Jenny Hahn, a book of Jenny Han did to all the boys I love before. So, like, if you liked that over on the old Netflix algorithm, you're going to love this over on Amazon. Guess it like that, my daughter. Yeah, she's basically like, they took that movie and made it a much more fun TV show. So she was all in on that. So if you have a daughter, I would recommend that show, but they're probably already watching it. All right. Sean, Joanna, we're going to have to reconvene, I think, maybe two episodes from now.

Sounds great. Sounds great. I can't wait to see where this show goes. This show is produced by Troy Farke. this particular podcast. And I don't know, the prestige. Prestige slate has calmed down a little bit. What was the show you said, the AMC show?

I'm going to have to check that out now. Dark. Dark. Dark winds. All right. We'll see. All right. Good to see you both.

Thanks, Bill.