The Prestige TV Podcast - 'The Rehearsal', Season 1

Episode Date: August 22, 2022

The Ringer's Bill Simmons is joined by Juliet Litman to discuss Nathan Fielder’s return to TV in HBO’s bizarre show ‘The Rehearsal’. Hosts: Bill Simmons and Juliet Litman Producer: Kyle Crichton  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

What's up, everybody? Are you tuning in to the Challenge USA on CBS? Well, tune in to me, Tyson Apostle, as I break down each and every episode with my co-host, Amelia Weddemeier. I'm also a contestant on the show, which gives you all the insider scoop. Amelia, how stoked are you to do this? Tyson, I'm freaking excited. I cannot wait to sit my butt down every single week to watch the show, then come here and recap it with you on the Ringer Reality TV podcast. My friend Juliet Libman is here. We've been working together almost 11 years. I cannot think of another TV show that have led to more dramatic text between us than the rehearsal on HBO, which we're in a cover now.

We'll probably simultaneously run this on the prestige TV podcast as well. So Nathan Field or our guy. He was a Nathan for you. I think I was the first person to have him on a podcast. I've been all in. I have the most Nathan stock probably of any media member. I was in early. Great show.

He leaves. comes back. We have a picture of him in the Grantland office with all of us in one of those podcasts, just great times. Comes back with this HBO show that is one of the most insane shows I've ever watched in my life. I'm not even positive. I enjoyed it. It was so uncomfortable and it took me to places that I wasn't ready to go and it just unsettled me in a way that I can't remember from a television experience. It was very polarizing online. Some people hated it. Some people loved it.

Some people thought it was genius. It was basically everything he's probably wanted with his career. He's, I think, 39 years old. This was his apex mountain, Juliet. Oh, my goodness. I was thinking about why I enjoyed it so much because I feel similarly to you. Like, did I love it? Did I find it troubling?

I mostly loved it. And I kind of understand the criticism. But mostly, it is so full of ideas. And it really highlighted to me how few ideas. as most TV shows have. And he's really trying to like suss out a lot of different things. And, you know, I cover a lot of reality TV. So like if you want to view it through the reality TV lens, you absolutely can.

If you want to view it through like the morality of acting, you absolutely can. If you want to view it through therapy, you can. Like there's just so much there and so many prisms through which you could, you could hold up. And so it just makes it makes me have to text you at all hours of the day about it. Well, and then there was the Jewish piece too, which is when it pushed it over. the top two. The fifth episode, one of the great Jewish moment episodes probably in the history of television. You also, you mentioned all those themes that hits. Also, like, parenting, is it a good thing? What can you learn from it? What are the good things and bad things about being a parent

and sharing it with another human being? So I watched the first episode again last night. And it's really interesting to watch the all six in a row week after week and then just go back in the pilot because the pilot has a lot of the lessons, right? In the pilot episode, which I thought was one of the most amazing episodes of TV I'd seen in a while. Me too. I absolutely love it. You don't know what's happening. You're just like, what's going on? This guy who they find who wants to apologize to somebody in his trivia crew, and Nathan goes to meet him and they have this interaction with these jokes that seem like a little too clever at the time, but you don't realize it when you're watching it. And then he pulls back.

and we find out that he already had been and had people in this guy's place and they created a replica of the apartment and he had rehearsed over and over again his interactions with this guy before he met the guy. And within six minutes, you're kind of like in disbelief.

What is happening? What is the show? Yeah, you like, I watched, I made my wife watch it because she was out on the show and we watched last night. She said, I don't want to watch it. It seems too complicated.

And then we watched it. Within six minutes, it was saying, it was fun to relive it through her because she was just like, my wife and my daughter together, they were like, what's going on? Like, they were just so confused and delighted by how fucking crazy this show is. And then it just keeps going. Yeah, there's something about the replicas in episode one,

both Cora's apartment and the bar that are so mind-blowing. The commitment to the bit is so huge that it's like nothing else that's been on TV for a while. And then you remember, you're watching HBO, and you're just like, how did he get this paid for? Like, what was the pitch of the show? show. And there's something very specific about the bar, which then he moves cross-country. He renames. Like, the through line of the bar replica is so poignant. I don't even know why, but there's something about it from episode one to the last time you see it, episode five.

That's just like so amazing and mind-blowing. And that's like, that's my favorite part of the show. I don't even know why. Well, Nathan, for you had that a little bit too, where he's, his theory is basically, if I'm going to do this, I'm all in. I'm all in on doing this. I'm not going to the half-assed or the three-fourth version. So like, you were talking about when they created the bar, there was the two chairs where the cushion was a little ripped. And they basically recreate the chairs and he's pointing out. But you can see on Nathan,

he's usually in character 99% of the time. He's so delighted showing this guy in the bar. You can see, he's just like, I can't believe we recreated this crazy random bar. What was it in Brooklyn? Yeah, I think it was in Bushwick. I looked it up, obviously. I'm sure that I'm sure that bars had a real increase in attendance. Oh my God.

Trivia night. You know, Nathan for you was really trendy when we were at Grantland. Like, as you said, he came into the office. And I don't like to participate in trends if I'm not there first. So I was like, eh, Nathan for you, cool, cool, cool, whatever. And then I saw him open at a vampire weekend show where he was like pretending to propose to someone on stage. And it was and then like she said no. And it was like so awkward.

And so like I don't, I like Nathan Fielder. And like, when he came in. into the office. I thought it was really cool, obviously. But now I have like a whole new opinion of like the Nathan Fielder experience in the last 10 years. Because this show is, as you said, is Apex Mountain. And like, I just think he's a genius. Like regardless of if you like, whatever side you fall, like the way that he's engaging with ideas, like no one else is doing this. And, you know, there's so much TV, hence the Press, each TV podcast. And like, this is a singular experience, which is why I found it so exhilarating because there's just nothing to compare it to.

Yeah, I watched, I had five weeks off and I watched the Sopranos. I rewatched the entire Sopranos again. And I was talking to somebody about it. I was just like, show was just amazing. The themes they hit, some of the places they go. I just like don't feel like TV does that anymore. Like people got excited about the bear this summer a little bit. And I think it's almost like in the NBA and NFL draft where you get excited about QBs.

But you know they're not really the same as when there's the class with the awesome QBs. or the NBA class that has like loaded with superstars. I think we talk ourselves into greatness of shows that doesn't 100% exist. There's been Sopranos, Game of Thrones,

The Wire, Breaking Bad, Mad Men. Mm-hmm. Are probably the five, and Mad Men is even, like, I don't know if that's aged in the same way as some of those.

I do feel like Sopranos, Game of Thrones, and the Wire are just repeatedly rewatchable for the next 50 years because of the things. they hit. This Nathan's show, I'm not going to, I'm not putting on that level, but it, it's engaging with ideas that I'm just not used to seeing anymore on television. People are too afraid to do this now. Totally. And, and, you know, Nathan is accused of being mean. Like, I think

that's the biggest criticism of the show is that he's putting regular people's like well-being and happiness at risk by doing these. What's the bachelor? I know. I know. And it's like, at least there's some level of, you know, consent going on. Like I think episode five when you find out that Angela, when Nathan isn't around, isn't like, you know, living this homesteader life is kind of a relief. We're kind of like, okay, good. Like she's actually getting something out of that. She's living in a nice place. She, you know, assumed like all of her expenses paid for.

I hope she got paid. She's on TV. So she probably did. But like, you know, I think that critique is more reflection of like where criticism is than the show actually. And so I was really interested that online, a lot of the conversation about the finale is. like Nathan acknowledging his critics because I don't really think he cares about I mean I you know Well, but he also, he filmed this stuff ahead of time so he didn't even know what the criticism is going to be. But he's probably anticipating it as my guess.

Yeah. But so the crux of the final episode is this one kid where I mean you can't tell the difference between Nathan, pretending to be his father and actually just being Nathan. One of the many child actors. Yeah. Yeah. Now thinks Nathan's his actual dad. Right.

And I don't I don't know. Like as a father, Bill, like, what was your take on Remy and that whole thing? Because I feel like if you want to see Nathan as a villain in this, like that's what you point to. So you got to go backwards. So he set in that first episode, he sets up the premise for this show.

And that's why when you go back and you watch it a second time, all of it's there for what he's going to try to. Because it veers in the second when you're watching it in real time. The week to weakness, I think, really helped this show. Yeah. Versus like the binge watch factor of it. So I watched the second show

And I think we were texting about it by them. Yeah. I was like I didn't like the second show as much. First show is amazing. Second show, eh. Then Angela comes back for the third. We don't realize yet that the last five episodes are all Angela related

and him trying to teach Angelo what it would be like to be a mother and him trying to find the father figure. But what we don't realize is he's going to become the father figure. And now he's in this relationship. This show is so crazy. that in that last episode

when that that kid gets confused whether Nathan's his dad or not, I thought he was going to start dating the kid's mom. I really did. I was like, he's going to have sex with this lady and they're going to start dating because that's where this is going to end

and we're not going to know what's real and not real. But that's the point. It's like everything was on the table by episode six. I literally would have believed any outcome. Yeah. It was so gonzo.

It's funny. I didn't even think about like what was going to happen next because I knew I couldn't predict it. Am I a bad person that I thought that? No, I don't think so. I mean, the funny thing about the show is like it, it's only trying to help you rehearse emotions, really,

and like anticipating other people's emotions. There's no like actual action. And so I don't think I thought there was going to be sex because like there's no, like there's no actual intimacy between anyone. It's just like pretending of what intimacy could be like. And so both physical and emotional. And so that didn't even seem likely to me. But I just every episode,

didn't see where it was going. I think I also don't like to see because I'm just like, please entertain me. I don't need to guess. But I didn't anticipate it at all. And so I think like every time there was a reveal, I was like, whoa, I didn't expect it. But I like the small reveals too. Like my favorite moment of the show is when you see the, um, watermelons and the cucumbers just sticking out of the ground. My favorite moment of the show is when he was rehearsing in the last episode. He's rehearsed. He's basically rehearsing all the interactions he already had with the kid actor who now is taking all these different forms to figure out what he did wrong to lead this kid down the road where

the kid thought Nathan was actually his dad. And so he has, he has like a doll. There's like a doll one. There's different younger kids. But then he has an adult playing the younger kid. And that part, that's when it gets super weird. But then they have this moment where it breaks out and the adult actor is just smoking a cigarette outside. And it's like, it's the perfect edit. It's like one second. They don't linger on it.

But you just kind of see them and you're like, what is happening? This is the most fucked up show I've ever watched in my life. I also loved that moment. Also because you couldn't see the front of the guy's head. So it's just like totally random actor guy. I have to say my biggest complaint at the beginning of the show when I didn't understand what was going on was I just felt like Nathan was

giving actors a lot of credit. like every actor could learn all these different emotions because in episode one I was just like how do these actors know what feelings to be tapping into like they don't know enough like researching them I just like didn't believe that piece of it but over the course of the show I feel like Nathan as a comedian is really really lampooning what actors can do and like what the purpose of them is and so well how about the last episode they have the birthday party and none of the extras are allowed to speak So it's just a silent birthday? And he claims it to save $15,000,

but it definitely costs more to move the bar set across the country than the $15,000 saved on extra. So, you know, there's just like at every second of the show, some kind of commentary. That's why it's overwhelming, but that's why I love it.

So if you had to guess, and we'll never know, because he'll never tell us, he's almost like a magician, how much of this, did he know what's going to happen, and how much of this did he add lib on the fly? Like, because there's stuff he couldn't have figured out, right?

Like, you couldn't have figured out Angela's guy that they kind of centered in on was just going to bolt at the end of the one. I don't, I assume he felt like, well, if we can't find the right person, I'll step in as the father figure. But he also couldn't have guessed that Angela would want to bag the experiment that there was a, maybe he could have guessed the religious piece of it because he's Jewish and she's so religious. Yeah, that's what I was going to say. I think the religious piece of it, he probably anticipated. And, you know, at the very beginning, he said that he found core through a Craigslist ad. And so I think there was some screening of people to be on the show. And so probably picking someone who was like pretty zealous in their religion that's not his was probably really perfect for this because it's just a really different way of life and also like has some pretty extreme views.

But if that guy had stuck around after episode two, then Nathan, never even the father figure. Right. Well. But my guess is maybe they picked that guy and maybe they told him the bolt after at the end of the second episode. Like they might have been able to massage this

a little more than we realized. Yeah. I, my biggest question was when he looks in the mirror, like what does he see back? Because I assume a lot of that is done in post production or whatever, you know,

because it's like the way it's shot. You could easily do effects. But the mirror became such a big part of the show that I was curious like how in the moment he was responding to himself, basically. Interesting. It felt like that was scripted in. Yeah.

And in what point did he decide like he needed to be able to look into the mirror and see it in like a plot point would be that he would see a different version of himself. Right. Like the playing with time was also pretty interesting. The critique of this show. I mean, there's a couple of people that lost their minds.

There was a New Yorker writer who, who's that Richard Brody? Brody, yeah. I don't think I don't think anybody. has hated a TV show that's actually good as much as this guy. He's losing his, even after he wrote their view, he was still killing it on Twitter. He was having like a hissy fit about it. And the big criticism was this is like cruel to do it to these people. But I also think that was the point of why Nathan wanted to do this show. His whole thing was like, I think, who knows, but I'm guessing his working premise was reality TV is cruel.

What would be the cruelest version of this? Because nobody comes out. Like, was it? it good for the trivia guy that episode, Core? Was it good for him ultimately? Was he a winner from that episode? What about the lady who he wanted to tell the secret to who they hire an actor and the actor learns her mannerisms and makes the most annoying character possible, which turned out to be dead accurate when we see her hanging out of the trivia thing? It's like I don't feel like anybody wins in this show. No, I don't think so. I thought it was kind of surprising that it really takes a turn towards like parents and the way that parents can damage kids. Like who was doing more damage? Nathan by asking the kid to be a part of this and then confusing

Remy about if he was his father or not or the mother for consenting to it in the beginning. And then there's definitely like, you know, the buildup of parenting is like slow. It's both slow and also really quick. But a real pivot point in the show is when Nathan's own parents come and he feels their judgment. And they're like, you know, they've basically, basically could be from my neighborhood where I grew out there, like extremely familiar to me. And he basically at that point, the show kind of like really escalates quickly when he explicitly puts himself into it and says like, my parents see that I'm mimicking my relationships of the past. And so, you know, knowing that he is divorced and like working through stuff himself, it kind of

becomes more extreme when Nathan, the character uses Nathan, the real guy to move the show forward. And so I think like that's like the parenting aspect of it clearly is like this fear that undergirds the whole thing. Well, and then it seems like he's had some issues too with his relationships. Yeah. And I don't know if he decided to throw that into the show halfway through or that was always the point. But I like that he's pretty honest about that stuff and how that ties into it. Basically he's not a parent yet. And there's some what would it like to be a parent that I guess he's going through that maybe he didn't know or I,

That's the thing. If I were him, I would never tell people what I actually meant. Like, my fear is there's going to be some vulture interview or something coming out where he lays out of his intentions. I kind of don't want to know. I feel like this should be whatever you take from it. He clearly was making some sort of statement on especially child actors, how stupid the child actor thing is and how you have to four hours per actor and people getting shuttled in and out and people getting confused. when this show, I think, went to another level. I think it was the end episode four when he realized he's fucked things up with the 15-year-old kid

and running through all these rehearsals for how bad it went. And the kid goes down that slide and comes out as a six-year-old again. Yeah. And that was like one of those moments like in Lost when Jack says to what's her face. Like, we got to go back. And it was like, wait, what's going on? When that kid came out of the slide, I honestly, felt the same way. And I'm watching all these

by myself. I don't even have ever to talk about it except you and a couple others. Yeah. And then Nathan becomes just like Angela after those moments. Like he's mad at her for not taking it seriously and breaking character when he's not around. But he's doing that. He, you know, he bends it to his will.

So, you know, it's like, it's just there's so much there. I love it. That episode also where he starts the Fielder Method and you see like the actor he chooses to play himself, that's like the worst. actor the whole show, I think, and like the worst performance in the whole show, which is definitely intentional, like Nathan choosing a bad Nathan, basically. We didn't talk about how the filter method, I think that was the same episode with the slide, right? Yeah, it was. That's when the show went through

the, the filter method, I think was like the holy shit episode of this, where it just goes a whole other direction, the people coming back in, imitating whoever they're with. Then we have the Jewish episode episode five. I mean, I know America's been dying for your opinions on this. I absolutely loved it. You're like the Roger Ebert for this episode, basically. I thought it was so funny. The Jewish tutor I loved. I love the idea of like personal Hebrew school because so no one likes going to Hebrew school, but it's like a rite of passage. So injecting that into the show is so funny. And it just led to these hilarious moments when he's pouring the water on the kid to make it seem like he was in swimming lessons. I was absolutely dying.

And then the tutor at the end of that episode is like so happy that Angela is gone that she's like, you know, she's standing in for the audience basically and like she can finally let loose. And it was just so it was like both a celebratory moment because it's supposed to be Hanukkah, but like the inflatables on the lawn are falling apart. And it's just like all the emotions in one. And I absolutely loved it. And it was, Nathan definitely does not believe in religion. That's very clear. Well, you had, they also struck oil with Core in the first episode. Core was just absolutely astonishing. When he starts getting into the trivia, Nathan's like, oh, no, I realize there was a flaw in my playing. Cora would care about the trivia so much, he might not be able to do the apology, and then has to game it and plant the facts in his brain. Core was special, and then Angela, that's like, the show doesn't work unless, Angela is, I don't even know what the word is.

Accentric? She's eccentric, which she's also arrogant, which I really liked about her. And I think it worked. Like, she's so really believes in her own ideas. She is, like, really willful in how she's doing things. She doesn't back down. And she just, like, assumes the upper hand. Like, Nathan apologizes and she accepts it.

She's like, I'm done here and she leaves. She's, like, Christianity only and she sticks to it. Like, because she's so stubborn, it actually. it works. She's the biggest reason why I think people are asking like what's real and what's not because it's so hard to believe that she could be a real person. Well, the best part about Angela is she led to fake Angela delivering one of the great acting performances of the 21st century as fake Angela is berating Nathan. And it's one of those scenes where you start thinking like, is this actress? Is this like the next Merrill

Drip, what's going on here? She was like so good. And then she just shuts it off of me and she's like, how was that? Was that that? Did I die that? And you're like, oh, my God. I don't even know who this person is. And they're amazing.

It was, I was so glad when she was back in episode six. I was like, we're not done with her yet. And there's just like so much continuity. I think at the episode, end of episode four, two of the paramedics are actors from the Fielder Method. And like, the thing that was so funny with the Fielder Method too is like there actually was purpose to it because then he found these actors to be the show. And so

everything, there's just like a doubling at all points of the show. Like nothing is ever just one meaning or one purpose. And that's why it's like so riveting to me. Yeah. And I didn't even 100% understand it the first time I watched the first episode with the end.

When he goes through the rehearsal at the end telling core like, hey, I planted those. The trivia thing wasn't real. I gave you all those answers. And the fake core gets mad at him and berates him. And then it comes back to Nathan and he comes up with a different thing and then Core reacts to that. And for some reason, it made so much more sense the second time.

All of it is about rehearsing what the right thing to do is, but the real answer is you're never going to know. And that's the whole point of life is that everything can lead to something else. There's no way to control it. Right. And also from the very beginning, just in terms of the show and like what to think about Nathan, the character, in the very beginning, Nathan, the character isn't as brave or as bold as all of the people he's put in the rehearsal, both the actors and the regular people. He can't go through with it. And I think that's like such an important part of the show and sort of, you don't only need to look to last episode like Nathan to see his own flaws. Like he's showing it to you in episode one, his own flaws and the flaws of the show. And I don't know,

Bill, it's just brilliant. Am I obsessed with Nathan Fielder? Yes, I am. You throwing your hat in the ring? No, I just, no. I think he seems like emotional out of available. I just, I just overrearing. I just, I just So overwhelmed by it. It's just all so good. If you started dating Nathan Fielder, that would be, that would break my brain. That or Katie going to the Celtics would be the two things that could break my brain in 2022. Let's get, let's go for both. You can be Julia Litman Felder.

Yeah, it's a great Jewish couple. Just to be clear, that's not what I was doing. I just was like, God, the show is so good, you know? Well, my last question, it got renewed on Friday. Yeah. I was delighted by. Me too. I don't even understand the rehearsal season two.

A, how do you top this? B, how do you do a show like this now? If at least some people know what it is. And then I don't even, I almost kind of wish there wasn't in season two, but then I'm also glad there is, which ties to my feelings in the show. I didn't 100% enjoy it, even though I was in complete awe of it. And it was one of the most unforgettable shows I've seen. But it made me really uncomfortable.

And it's an experience I almost dread going through again, but I can't wait to do it. Did that make sense? Yes, it does. Thank you. So a couple things about being renewed for season two. A, I think that means he won't speak that much about like how everything worked for season one because I'll want to maintain the mystery and everything. So that's a great thing. Number two, he clearly started filming this before COVID.

I think the stuff of core was in 2019. So it's very possible he started filming season two already. I don't know for sure. Also, on like a business standpoint, I was worried that with the changes happening in HBO and HBO Max that maybe it wouldn't come back. And so I wonder if it was already renewed and in production before the changes.

And so they're just like, okay, we'll keep going with it. But as a result, I think that means that many of the participants won't be able to see season one so they won't know what they're doing. But moreover, does Angela watch HBO? Like, does Angela believe in streaming TV? People like that probably just, They're always available. Did she have the internet?

Yeah, you're right. It's probably an endless array. Yeah, this is one of the big successes for HBO Max, I think, of the first couple years. And it's a show that I think if it had been on Sunday night on HBO, I think it would have been even bigger. I do think there's enough word to mouth now. We can kind of tell. We've been in this business for a while, and we can all kind of tell when something's

becoming a thing, at least in certain circles. And it seems like this show in certain circles became a holy shit, are you watching this show? Which we just, going back to the initial point, we haven't had a lot of. Yeah. And I think when a show is so good that you, at least for me, when I'm like, just watch it. I don't even want to say anything. That's the best kind of word of mouth there is. If you can't sum it up in a sentence, it has to be different than everything else you're used to.

Well, and then the best part of this is some people I know would absolutely hate this show. Like my mom would hate the show and be furious that I made her even watch one episode of it. I have 10 people in my life who would just hate the show's guts. And then I have other people in my life like you that I'd be like, oh, I can talk to this person because they're going to get why this was what it was. I give the show an A triple plus. I'm just in awe of it and I give it an A plus plus plus while also saying I don't even know if I enjoyed it.

A plus plus for ideas. Unclear for experience. But for me, it's positive all around. I watched every episode twice. I was like, I really just need to get this and have it sink in. Julia Lippmanfielder, thanks for coming on. It was great to see you.

And you can listen to Juliet on Bachelor Party and I'm Bachelor Party and Ring her dish. Yeah, and Food News. And Food and Ringer Food, which are our guy, Jacoby. Hey, you're doing it all. All right, good to see you.