The Prestige TV Podcast - ‘The Sopranos’ Hall of Fame: Remembering Paulie "Walnuts"

Episode Date: July 13, 2022

The Ringer’s Bill Simmons, Van Lathan, and Wosny Lambre remember the late Tony Sirico by discussing his role as Paulie "Walnuts" Gualtieri in 'The Sopranos,' specifically looking back at Episode 11 of Season 3: “Pine Barrens.” Hosts: Bill Simmons, Van Lathan, and Wosny Lambre Producer: Jessie Lopez Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hey, it's Sean Fentanyi, host of The Big Picture. Did you just see the latest tent pole blockbuster? Or a surprisingly fun new movie on a streaming service? Or maybe you just want to bone up on the greatest films ever made. From reviews to rankings, career retrospectives to movie drafts, and everything in between, the Big Picture is here for you. Listen to The Big Picture for free on Spotify. All right, it's a special episode of the Prestige TV podcast.

My name is Bill Simmons. I am here with Wazdine Lambray. Van Lathen. We are doing a Sopranos Hall of Fame episode. We're doing the most famous episode. Band didn't want to do this because we're paying tribute to Polly Walnuts, and you felt like there were other episodes that were kind of off the beaten path for episodes people associate with our guy, Polly Walnuts.

The case for this episode is this is the best Polly Walnuts performance. So you're basically doing, you're like the, you're like, no, no, that's not, juicy isn't Biggie's best song. It's got to be saying, no, actually, Juicy's. best sign. Just settled down. Jusie's not his best song. But, but, but no, I was definitely doing film school snob. You know what I mean? Let's talk about

Stanley Kubrick. You know what I mean? So, yeah. So, for sure. But to be honest with you, though, this, I still think his best performance isn't fleshy part of the thigh. Like, I really do. But Pine Barrens is probably the single most famous Pauli Walnut's performance. And you could argue that it is the episode that took the Sopranos from really, really solid and popular cable television series

to cultural, like cultural phenomena. I mean, it was super popular. Don't get me wrong. It was huge debut, huge everything, but to put over the top to where we're talking about it on today show, Pine Barron, everything changes after Pine Barrens, if you ask me.

It was the 1984 NBA finals for the Bird Magic run. What do you think, Was? What's special about Pine Barrens to you and then we'll talk, Polly Walnuts? You know, and this is not hipster of me. I'm just not as film, TV, snobby, as I guess most people are about the Sopranos. I didn't ever understood why people were so nuts about Pine Barrens. Like, it's an entertaining as, you know, hour of TV.

So I thought, and I was like, all right, I don't see the big deal. And then I'm watching it today. And there is a lot, like, going on. underneath the surface as far as the storytelling, right? Like instead of the, like the show don't tell, they're doing a lot of show don't tell in this episode that I think is really good. Pauley specifically is, he is all over the place

in this episode. You get the full Pauley Walnuts, who this guy is at his core, the part where he's taking his mom, the Social Security, you know, the part where he's throwing Christopher under the bus. The part where he loses his shoe and he just basically starts acting

like a seven-year-old, like his hair at the end. Oh my God. It feels like the real actor who just passed away was unraveling during the episode as they were filming it. I don't know how you even separate it.

We did an oral history about it for the ringer last year that Alan Siegel wrote, which was excellent. One of the tidbits was that Tony Sirrico, rest in peace, didn't like the pillows

in his hotel room, and they had to send a PA, like five hours round trip to get him different pillows for his New Jersey hotel room. But it just seems like everybody who worked for that show had 100,000 stories about him. And the piece that Justin Sales just put up on the website, calling him half a wise guy, it was basically who he was. It was, his past was slightly unclear. Everybody loved him. There was definitely a side to him that I think was fascinating to a lot of people, but this episode, I thought, brought off it out. Fan, you think there are better Pauli Walnuts episodes. What was your favorite?

So, flusgy part of the thigh is the episode. First of all, this is the way I know and we remember Tonya Serico. So I want to say rest and peace to him, because outside of, you know, some of the Woody Allen stuff, well, I guess in that too, every time I saw him, he was like this. You like, every time I saw him, this is kind of, kind of what I saw. You saw younger versions of Pauli. You saw older versions of Pauli.

but every time I saw him, he seemed to be kind of embodying this type of role and this type of energy. So, you know, rest and peace to him, I love the guy as a performer. So fleshy part of the thigh is the episode where Pauly

goes to, it's a drag, by the way. So it's an episode where Pauley learns of his true parentage. Yeah. That his, uh, his, uh, his, uh, dadi is actually his mother and his mother is actually his

Unct. Captivated and Spellbound. You know, I do a Soprenno's rewatch once a year. Really, I do a Soprenos rewatch perpetually. I like watch it all the time as much as I can. I don't know why I'm like, it's just, I love the show. It's top tier entertainment. Kalika hates this about me.

But she just hates this about me. But in that episode, Pauly is dealing with grief, turmoil, and, and this relatable situational depression that is very, very relatable. So as far as the performance, this is the funniest episode of Sopranos, one of the funniest episodes of television ever. But as far as the performance, Flushing Bar the Thigh,

he grounds that episode. Yeah. Like he grounds the drama of it. It's almost like, you know, the other characters take a back. See, you know, there's a whole subplot to where a mother is going through something with her son and Pauly sees that.

They just give him a lot to do and he does it all very well. Yeah, and you talk about, uh, Paulie being, or excuse me, Tony Sirico being half a wise guy. Of all the people on the show, um,

he does remind me of those people who I knew in New York, right? Um, maybe not necessarily the kids that I went to high school with, but they're friends, right? Uh, Tony most, Tony Sirico most reminded me of those people of everybody on the show. Like,

Maltesanti is, you know, you can tell like he's playing the character. Even, even Tony Soprano, which James Gandalfini is a brilliant actor and he does obviously a great job of embodying who this guy is supposed to be. That feels like a character he's playing. Whereas Paulie Walnuts, like, that feels very, very familiar to. you know, the type of people that I knew back in Queens from places like... No method acting for Tony.

No. I really liked Sylvia, but I always felt like Van Zant was playing... He's playing a character. He's hammering it up. He's pouring it on a little bit all the time, even in the early episodes when he's not that old yet. Like, I've been watching season one.

I'm just, I'm like Van. Probably every two years, I just go another round. and I was watching the soccer episode which has one of the funniest terrible soccer scenes in the history of television movie where the quote unquote star Meadows team goes through Ali!

She really does a Diego Maradonna she does a Diego Maradonna. But can barely dribble. But anyway, in that scene it's young Sylvia in that and he gets into it with the ref, but it feels a little sadder and lavish. I never felt like Polly Walnuts felt that way.

What was cool about him? It's interesting because James Kahn died the day before. And I thought they shared a very similar quality where James Kahn could be, he could be sweet and he could be menacing. And he could be both in the same five minutes. Like the thief diner scene, the fantasy pointed that out last week. Tony Serrico could kind of do that. It was weird.

It was like, am I afraid of this guy? Do I like him? if he wanted to take me for a car ride, would I be scared? Would I trust him? I thought he did the best of all the, let's be honest, fan, the Sopranos mobsters.

Some of them weren't incredible actors. No, but to be honest with you know, it's the flaw. I don't think it's the flaw. I think it's, well, it's a little bit of a flaw. There's some bad actors of the show. So this is what I say about it, though.

I look at it as part of the charm of the show. So it's kind of like Like baby April is is a bad actor Like he is such But to me it's it's part of like the It's almost like the wire right After a while the dramatic weight of the show Pushes down on the character

So much to where it flattens them out right Like they become like people pancakes And then at that point you can almost put anything on top of them that you want. Like, you know what I mean? So it's like, like he, Jackie Appriel Jr. straight up can't act. Like he, like, he, like he's just kidding.

Wals is not wrong about that. He straight up, he straight up can act. But after a while, you start to wonder if like, he's actually just like a real New Jersey fucking meeting. So, and that's, that's the thing, right? It's like, is he a shitty actor? Right. Or is this dude just a shithead?

Yeah, right. So you start to kind of wonder, you don't know. And with Pauley, my favorite Pauley moment ever, ever, I told Bill this, is in the aftermath of Finn telling the story about Vito's, like, Vito giving a guy homosexual, right? Yeah, Vito giving a guy a blowjob. Because they had just, they just knew that it was Vito that was getting the blowjob. getting the blow job from the security guard.

They just knew that because it couldn't have been the other way of right. Yeah, and so Finn goes, no, wait a minute, no, no, no, no, no. It's the other way around. And they're like, what? And he goes, Vito was blowing the security guard. And Paulie goes, son of our bitch! Like, that moment was so, so authentic coming from him.

He delivered that line. He couldn't deal with it. And it was hilarious, but it was real. And so I think that's kind of what I go from the show. Was it the most? Was it Lawrence Olivier level dialogue? No, but it was like, it just felt like they would really feel that way. And that's all I ever asked for these characters, you know?

He also was great at the, whoa. Yeah. Oh, oh, oh. Oh. And they would do it too. Both of them were really good at that. When they assault Christopher at his own intervention,

what the fuck is going on? These guys are nuts. Sales' piece was open with talking about the legend at Tennessee Maltesante when, which is just, I just rewatch that episode. That episode's unbelievable. Christopher,

Christopher really trying to figure out, like, how am I leaving my mark? You know, he's still in his 20s, he's young, he's got dreams the whole thing and that's a lot of what season one's about and he's for some reason decides to tell polly this he's like where's my arc polly and polly goes hey i got no arc either i was born grew up spent a few years in the army a few more in the can and here i'm half a wise guy so what and he just like didn't understand what paul's problem was i mean uh what uh christopher's problem was and it's just that was polly like but at the same time there's certain people

like this, you always felt like he was going to survive, even in the last season, as things are falling apart and people are starting to get whacked and you just, things are going sideways. You always felt like Pauley was going to figure out how to navigate it, even if it meant like turning on Tony at the end. I never felt like he was going to die. Did you guys? I always felt like Polly was invincible.

Yeah, I mean, Pauley is the muscle of the crew. And you see that, like, meaning he's not somebody who's coming up with constant money schemes. His utility is, the executor. Right, his utility is his willingness to carry out violence, right? And you see his insecurity

at various points of this episode come out where it's like, I'm getting passed over for people. I'm not seen as important. You know, I'm being used as a gopher. So I always thought, you know, the enforcer types, I just thought he would take the rap, right?

Like Weebay before him or after him. Or, you know, like Chris Partnout, like they usually make these enforcer type homies be the ones that just go to jail. And so I just assume that Pauley would end up in prison. But yeah, him as an enforcer. But like, again, they show his tender side with Chris. Like Chris is like his nephew too. But you also feel like in this episode, you feel like he's going to kill him.

That's the thing. They had the all-time love-hate friendship. It was great. I loved how they established it. At one point, it was hate-hating. I think it never got back to love, to be honest with you. Yeah, Chris and Polly were cool at the beginning, but after they went through their drama,

it never got back to the point that it did because, see, here's the thing about Pauley. Polly was not important enough to kill. Polly would have to be somewhere where somebody else was getting whacked off. Wow. Polly would have to be somewhere else where somebody else was getting whacked in order for him to get killed.

He wasn't important enough to get killed. He was truly like a mafia, cockroach, whatever happened, he was going to survive it. By the end of the show, by the end of the show for me, and by the way, Webe and Chris will be so mad that you compared to him to Pauli because Pauli was

so loose with his tongue. By the end of the show, you did not know whether or not Pauli, he had some really despicable character traits. He was a sycophant to the highest degree, to the highest degree he was a sycophant.

And number two, He also was talking shit to other people about Tony and what was going on in New Jersey. But that all plays in the part to the reason why he plays a part into why he wouldn't have got killed. Because he was a survivor. So the thing was, Polly was a survivor. And if you're a survivor, if your goal is to make it to the end, you sometimes do some things that aren't so pretty and aren't so upstanding and aren't so amazing. Can we talk about some of the more despicable stuff from this episode? because like you said,

Van, this is one of the funniest episodes of the series. That's why I wanted to do it because it brings the whole package. Every single thing you liked about the Sopranos is in this episode. The

all of the like the fucked up stuff he's saying about the Russian dude just because like Pauli just assumes that Russians are all like cave men and savages and it's just

like so so hilarious but the part where like they think they killed the dude they're gonna go bury him in new jersey and polly's like look we can go down there get a ruminate see go to mortons place blackjack like yo that that's why that's why this show is dope and it's in the goodfellas sort of family tree because people always say are they glorifying it or are they you know critiquing it I really think it is a critique. Like they're really trying to show you, David Chases. Like, these guys are sociopaths. They just murdered a dude in cold blood.

And all they can think about is Morton's, is AC, is, you know, just getting back on with regular life. Like, the fact that they were talking about this stuff with a dead guy in their truck, like, yo, let's go to Denny's. Let's do this. I just felt that to be so hilarious and illuminating, too. there's nothing about the sopranos that would make you want to be a mobster. Yep. There's not one guy.

Johnny Sack, out bad, terrible. Phil. Out bad. Terrible. Like, almost everyone. You know, the one redeeming mobster in the whole series is little karma. Bacalao.

Not even him. No, not even him. Out bad, terrible. He got shot in a fucking toy train show. But he was like the most human of the freaking mob. Except they married Janice. Yeah, like he's still, but look at

B'Lu, but look at Bobby Bacalao's life, right? Look at Bobby Bacala's life. Just complete loss. He loses his first wife that would make some rebound with Janice. Like he had a tough life and then he gets killed in his late 30s, early 40s. Yeah. Well, in this episode, he's comic relief because he shows up just dressed like a complete little.

That was, you know, rest of peace, my father, my father couldn't handle it. My father's a lifelong hunter. He probably hunt deer in heaven right now. When Bobby showed up in a hunter's orange, my dad lost it. My dad was like, what is he wearing? It's like my dad, Bobby, because really you should be wearing it, right? Because you don't want it.

In Louisiana, I remember my dad would almost make me grab it. Hey, put your orange on. He never wore his, but it's like, put your orange on. I don't want nobody. You know what I mean? He's wearing a hunter's orange on. And my dad, it's like, what the fuck? Look at that big ass guy.

But that's the thing with this show, with the wire. and I think Succession has a chance to be thought of this way. I don't know if it would be quite on the level of those but maybe one notch under, but the shows were fucking funny. Like the wire had really, really, really high level funny moments consistently.

It's not as funny as the Sopranos, but it's hilarious. But yeah, the comedy on here with the, like, you know, he was the minister of the interior and Paulie, because he's just a really stupid monster her an interior designer. And Chris said his apartment looked like shit.

Probably looks like shit. But that shows that's so good. That's also a great characterization because that shows you that like Chris is just like he's physically a little sharper than Paul he is. He's like, it was an interior designer. He's like, that's making sense his apartment was

funny. His crick was whack. The best thing I could say about how funny this episode is and how these two guys, how funny they are together, is it reminds me a midnight run. He is, to me, the all-time, just two goofballs hanging out together, trying to make it work,

but they're getting on each other nerves and just being on. It's so many similarities to that, especially the ketchup scene, which became the most famous scene just the way Paul is looking at the ketchup. What were you going to say, Ben? No, I was going to say that

with Pine Barrens, we talk about Chris and Pauley, but on a rewatch of it, the other two plots were amazing the other two plots were fantastic yeah i think gloria was one of the best side characters they ever brought on the show so good

and this was the episode when she unravels yeah you knew she couldn't survive but god damn it she was perfect man she was so perfect what a beautiful i want to just jesus yeah yeah we're here man but uh

but she she was she was a perfect character man just did everything brilliantly played. And that on a rewatch of it was kind of like the main thing that kind of grounded this show. A lot was going on for Tony too while these guys were trying to searching around in the woods. Yeah. Because college is, I think, what people think is the first great Sopranos episode.

But that has a B story of Carmela and the priest, which is like four scenes too long. When you watch it, you're like, all right, let's get back to Tony. every time it's her and the priest, this one's humming the whole time. And really, like, the Polly Christopher part is obviously the best part.

There's a moment in here where it seems like they're foreshadowing that one of these two is going to turn on the other because you feel like it's actually going to happen in the woods. Like, there's real violence in the air at one point. There's also, like, the scene when they're trying to kill the Russian and it's the two-on-one fight,

it's fucking hilarious. The scene when it gets out of the trunk, the Russian muttering to himself. He starts talking himself in Russia and then hits Chris with the shovel. There's just some good physical comedy all the way through. Paul, he loses his shoe.

I think it was directed by Steve Buscemi, which I think is fascinating. That made the episode, I think, very, very popular. And it was one that when you were kind of a fan and that everybody tuned in for this one because Buscemi was such a big deal. We didn't know he was coming to the show at that point. Right.

Yeah, so just, no. knowing that he was like that big of a deal. It made everybody watch this one. Watching it just now, because I watched it this morning, the way these dudes talk about South Jersey, and they're like, they talk about it as if it's Siberia, and they're chasing a Russian through the South Jersey, like, Siberia, essentially. I thought that was freaking hilarious.

You know, so the Russian disappears. We'll just hit this now really quick, Because one of the most famous things about this episode is we never see the Russian again. And this was a big deal when this episode came out, you know, it was mid-2000s. TV at that point, we're still 10 years removed from like NYPD Blue, kind of reinventing TV drama and ER and these kind of shows. Then Oz shows up in the late 90s. Drama's starting to shift and the whole concept of what a drama was was starting to shift.

And in the era that I grew up with, the episodes, you might have a multi-episode arc, but they always led to something. And usually the show's got wrapped up in one episode. Like the first four episodes in NYPD Blue, which are absolutely incredible. I just watched them. They wrap up in four episodes, basically.

They lay out all the plots. David Schwimmer's character dies. Janice, it turns out she's going to get away with killing the mobster, the whole thing. This one blew people's minds that the Russian was just gone, and there was no resolution. Nobody had done that before.

They had never happened in a TV show where it's like, actually this character is going to come and go and you'll have to wonder what happens. That's why the Sopranos was so groundbreaking. It's inverted a lot of things that we thought that we knew. Tony being, Tony is clearly, you know, I watched this thing, this great YouTube channel. I'm so on my YouTube base called Analyze and Evil where they take all of the villains of everything

and they give them a psychoanalysis. I'll watch it. This is the stuff that I do, guys. I'm sorry. and I watch it, right? You love your anti-heroes. I love my anti-heroes. So I watch one about Tony Soprenno.

You never think about this, but throughout the course of the show, you know, Tony killed, ordered, or was involved in the murders of 24 people. That's a, like, like, you know what I mean? It's a serial killing. Yeah. Like, that's a lot of people, you know what I mean? But you have absolutely zero problem rooting for Tony Soprano. Like, less than the.

one. Maybe by the end, you're like, I, this guy's a little fucked up, but still, there's enough that happens. At the end, we're looking for any reason to love the guy. Like, he loves a horse. Oh, my God, Tony's a human being. You know what I mean? So, like, a lot of these things are subversal to what it is that we think that we know. And I think, like, one of the things about Pine Barrens is, is like, in that situation with the Russian, sometimes life is just like that. Sometimes you go, hey, yo man, whatever happened to that guy? And nobody can figure it out. Like in your life.

There's a dude right now from Baton Rouge named Drico. Drico, if you're listening to this, hit me up. Because we, like, because Drico was our cool, one of the, well, was our friend, one of the best basketball players around. And one day, Driko left our school. And no one knows where Dr. You know what I mean?

And every time I will watch, every time I will watch Byrars, I'd be like, yeah, man, what Driko up to right now, bro? Like, so, so, but TV shows never did that because it was always thought that part of the formula of the show's resolution. But Serrano's went by the formula of actual life. Yeah.

Well, so what happened to the Russian? There was blood. There are footprints. And then everything stops. The Russian died. That's a one. He says, no way he made it out of those woods, even if he is the equivalent of a Russian green beret.

And he's probably fought in, you know, terrible adverse conditions and all of that. We get all that. But it did look like a headshot, though. I look like a headshot. It looked like JFK Assassinations of Pruder film level, kind of his head exploding. All of that. Even if he got, even if he went somewhere, they probably ran the wrong direction, whatever.

And the reason why I never came back on anybody, his uncle tells Tony like, yo, like, he's, you know, he's my nephew, but he's a drug addict. He's, he's involved in all of this stuff. So if he would have went and got missing and or was found dead, everybody would have understood that he was doing shady stuff and had problems. and there was no reason to suspect Tony and his crew. But somebody took the car. Doing it. Yeah. Russian is alive.

I don't know. What the fuck. Like that Russian, that right now, that dude, the last 10 years has been hanging out on some kind of yacht paid for by some shady government shit. He's close friends with Putin. They talk about it all the time. He's fucking terrible. So the Russian is alive for you. Half his head's missing, but he's very popular.

Brut, half his head's missing. which made him a scarier figure in the Russian underworld. He's a John Wick villain at the end. So I assume the car got towed, because it was there overnight when it wasn't supposed to be, the car got towed and the Russian just died somewhere. That was where I got. That's where I went.

Because, you know, when I'm from, your car is a lot of people to get told all the time. I think I got towed too. But what's interesting in the oral history that we did about it, it wasn't supposed to snow. The blizzard happened, like the day before they started. started filming, so the snow became this monkey wrench for it. And you think about it, like, all they had to do was follow the footprints.

They would have found him. Like, even Pauly and Christopher, not exactly brain surgeons. Like, the little kid in the shining could figure out the footprints thing. I'm pretty sure these two guys could. But I agree with Watts. I think he died in the woods. I think he probably went right. They went left.

They kept going. He stumbled and he was gone. I'm just disappointed that you guys is lack of the faith in the force. Your life is disturbing. This is why you're a ring reverse guy and we're not. You believe. Exactly. In these great worlds where these people have superpowers, why are they a realist?

100%. When people are like, oh, what happened at the end of Sopranos? I'm like, well, I watched your show for seven seasons. Pretty much what happens to every mobster is the same. You either die or go to jail. Or you become a snitch. One of the three things happen to Tony. Like, I don't really need to see it.

We know what happens to. Every single mob's Silicon. We talked about it the last, when we did the Hall of Fame episode, the first episode of the final final season, they're dropping breadcrumbs the whole time that he's going to get shot. It's like the last thing. It's just everything goes black. You don't hear it.

Hey, he's dead. And then Chase admitted that he's dead. And by the way, I choose not to believe that either. There were also other things that they dropped breadcrumbs. Do you remember? Did he retire and move to Arizona or something? No, remember. Do you remember what Eugene said when he was trying to retire and go to Florida?

He said the joy bananas did it. And, you know, there are other things that they drop breadcrumbs to. So maybe later on, you know, AJ's out here. He's working with Joel Silver. I wish our listeners could see Vance face right now. I don't like you guys. Because he is just like, I know this is true. I know what AJ's doing right now.

He's got a podcast. And it doesn't have a lot of downloads. but it's a true crime broadcast. His last episode got 22 listeners and he was super excited about it. Speaking of hipster takes, a friend of mine recently gave me the hipster take that AJ is actually a brilliant character

that he really effectively showed what growing up in this family would turn you into and his shitheadedness is a reflection of all. the things that are going on around him and it's not his fault, et cetera, et cetera. I agree with that for first season. I think he's a good first season character and then it gets worse every year. So this is my thing about AJ and the reason why I still have an affinity for the character

is because he is, he makes me laugh so much. He's annoying, but let me tell you why I have an affinity for the character. He's Tony's life if he went left, right? Tony went right, AJ went left. Like, AJ has absolutely every single bit of Tony's psychosis. Every single thing about it. He's paranoid. He's impulsive.

He has the panic attacks, the whole nine. Not a good athlete, though. Not a good athlete. Did not have the makings of a junior varsity athlete at AJ. Uncle June is still mad about that flat ball Tony missed. I got to be honest with you. That to me, that to me, fuck Pine Barrens. Like, Pine Barrens is funny.

That to me is the single funniest bit of any of it. By the time Tony gets to the point where he can't fucking handle that anymore. Yeah. He's like, oh, my God, it's not true. I'll let it in football. It's like, you never play college ball.

Some of those guys from Seas Hall were seven feet tall. But anyway, I liked AJ because AJ is Tony if Tony crumbled. Tony couldn't have because of the era so he's a fun house mirror of his father. Or if Tony would have tried to be a square, right? But see, but see, that's why I'm saying. It's like, Tony couldn't try anything.

Like, the life grabbed him, right? The life grabbed him. Tony was trying to keep AJ at a distance, right? But by keeping him at a distance, he got none of the strength that his father had to have. So it's this weird commentary on parenting. Do you hold your kids too close or do you let them find themselves, like, which is a better way? And every time they thought they had AJ, right, they realized that he couldn't handle whatever position they put him in.

Whatever they gave AJ, he couldn't handle it to the end of the show. But it was just, he just fucked up so much. The long hair era, AJ is the worst era, AJ. And it was hard to watch. Last season, AJ is real, last season, AJ is really tough. It's tough, man. It's tough. All right, I'm Polly, just to put a bow on this one.

So if you're ranking your favorite Sopranos characters, then we don't have to do our rankings. But Polly has to be in the top five. In fact, let me see. In fact, I think that was part of the reason there was such an outpouring last week, because in a lot of ways, other than Tony, he's one of the first people I think of

when I think about the show. Him and Christopher, I think Christopher, played by Michael Imperialioli, it was hard to accept him in other roles after the Sopranos. Polly, same thing, but Pauly was who he was, right?

He was always this guy in all these different things, then the Sopranos best possible version of it. But after that, it was like, what was he going to do? Like, be the dad in an NBC sitcom? Like, he's Polly Walnuts. Michael Imperioli, like,

really tried to do all this different stuff after and was just kind of pigeonholed by Christopher. It was such a different character. Maybe if they would have started a show based in Howard Beach, New York, or Queens, called Italian-ish Uncle Pauli could have been in the show. But, like, Paulie. I would have to watch that. Paulie is, so to me, outside of Tony,

if we have to shoehorn Tony into the top five or we just give him to- disqualified. Okay, if Tony's disqualified, for me, the two people that, have to be in the top five are Uncle June and Carmela. Because what they do on the, like, the way Carmela, like, is this guy's wife as, like, sort of complicit, but actually standing up for herself all the time. Like, one of the few people who stands up to this dude,

I think it's really important. It's really important to watch Tony get dressed down sometimes. And her being the person who delivers this. that on the show is important. And I think Uncle June for the same reasons. He's the only other person besides Carmela and Tony's mom

who like literally just like say Tony like shut the fuck up. Like everything doesn't need to go your way. You're not you know God's gift to the mafia. You're not some boy genius. And just Junior's pettiness and

insecurity. So you love the oral sex episode then because that has all that stuff. Love it. Because that is Carmelo in the, I just watched how Carmelo in the bedroom when she's like, when she's letting the secret. It only happens once a year and Tony's just like, do I get bad about that? Don't leave this. That one is so.

What happens in this bedroom stays in this bedroom? Right. When they're at dinner, it's like, I don't go down there enough. It's not what I heard. It's like Carmelo is. The golf scene would, that was when. Uncle June gets mad about, or he brings up the baseball. That's when Tony starts doing the south of the border.

That is one of the funniest three minutes. Yeah. So those two definitely in the top, in the top five. And yeah, man, Paulie, Pauli woman's got to be. I have Adriana and Polly, I think, are important. So Adriana is very important. Are we talking about multis? Because there are some other characters that I put in there.

I put Ralphie in there. Like Ralphie was the perfect little shithead nemesis for so long. You knew Ralphie couldn't survive. The passive-aggressive dick. God damn, Ralphie was just. And he was scary because he was a murderous little bastard and he was good at his job. Ralphie is the quintessential prick coworker that's good at their job.

And you just wonder, yo, man, it would be a lot. easier if they just fired this motherfucker. But every time you see him, he walking the TV to the front, laughing with somebody. You know what I mean? Yeah. So, Ralphie and then Pauly is obviously a top five

character for me. Obviously, I have to put Tony up there, but I loved Blondetto. I loved Blondetto. Blondetto to me, I had so many cousins. They come back from wherever they're gone from,

be in rehab, be at jail. And it was like, okay, they got it. They're going to figure it out now. The boy went away when he was 17, 18, 19. He 24, 25. He didn't come back. He's wearing a coofy on his head.

You know what I mean? He's telling you not to eat McDonald's. The joint has been good to him. He's going to figure it out. And goddamn six months later, yo, because let me use your credit card, man. I got the scam going on. It's like, no, man.

You know what I'm saying? And just watching their relationship. And a lot of these characters for me, Carmelo, withstanding that because that's a good point about Waz. She had her own thing going on. She's almost disqualified, too, because this is really Tony and Carmelo. Yeah, she had her own thing going on. A lot of these characters are good insofar as they're,

what they reflect in Tony Suprano because the show is so centrally dominated by, you know, everything that has to do with him. And Ralphie brought out Tony's humanity and Tony Blondetto brought out Tony's weakness because we realized that that's the first time he had a panic attack, that he's running from that shame and that he's going so much further than he would with anybody else because he can't live with something that he did in this past. So I like those characters for some reason, but Pauley, Pauley's just always there when you need to laugh or when you need a lesson on the old school mafia. because we think of Pauley as just comic relief and I'll stop talking after this. But he also is there as a character sort of forged out of granted

as a reminder of how things were years ago because he worked in Tony's father, right? The old days. The old days. That's why I really felt like many states of Newark, which I love, but a lot of people don't like. I really thought it missed an opportunity to get us closer to Pauley and Seale

since we had heard so much about them. Another character that I need to bring up, Charmaine Bucco. Oh my God, I loved her. So funny. She was great. And another person, yeah, she's very fine. And another person who would just be

the checks and balances on the mafia culture. Just be like, Artie, I know you grew up with these dudes. They're horrible. They're sociopaths. They're bad for business. They're terrible people. Like she was just one of the few reality check characters on the show. And she was reliable for a laugh.

And because I grew up in such a, like, you know, like Haitian culture is so matriarchal. Yeah. And so like that woman reminds me of a lot of the women in my life. Like how bossy she is and assertive she is. Like reminds me of a lot of Haitian women. So you're saying the Italians and the Haitians have a lot of. common. There's a bit.

Yeah. Because there is, trust me, I'm half a time. There's a lot of Charmains. A lot of ball breakers. They are strewn around.

I'll give you another one that would be borderline top five, maybe top five for me. It's just season one Meadow Soprano. Oh, she was great then. I think that first year, that character was so good

and had such a good handle. Yeah, such a good handle on like trying to figure out what her dad was, being suspicious of it, knowing she could go at them. I just thought she had full command. And as it went along, she went to college.

They kind of lost the steering wheel with that character, I feel like, by the end. But the first season, I thought, was lights out. And I thought she humanized her dad more than anybody else in the show. She does. And also, a lot of the things that I like that they used her for was to shoehorn these political issues in. Right. And where she was early woke.

Exactly. Where Meadow was the standard for, you know, liberal society. But David Chase would always challenge, you know, liberal conventional thought. Obviously, some of the more conservative stuff that Tony was on, he could parody that and be like, this is ridiculous. But he wasn't afraid to sort of parry and challenge the stuff that Meadow sort of tried to represent every now and again. Because she didn't know shit. She was third year college liberal, which is the worst kind of liberal. Because, you know what I mean? Like, I'm liberal, don't get me wrong.

But third year college liberal is the worst kind of liberal. It's like, don't drink out of a styrofoam cup. Motherfucking, let you live. You know what I mean? I'm like, I had a tough day. Like, let me live. And the reality is she had all of this knowledge and all of these thoughts, but Tony had all of this lived experience. And they will go up against each other.

When she actually, you know, when the episode where they're at Jackie's funeral and she actually shows that she buys into things, you know, that character changed after that because Tony even remarks, so all of her innocence is gone. She just kind of fell into whatever she was going to be. And she was just a college girl before then. Before, like, prior to that, she actually, you know, like the first time you found out that your parents smoked weed and you're like, Jesus Christ, they're not like, you know, back in the day when we was a taboo. You're like, you're like, Jesus Christ. I remember finding my mom rolling a joint, I was like, fuck. You mean to tell me?

She's not this. She's not everything that she says that she does. She doesn't really do Jesus. And Meadow, we all pull at that wall on our parents to find out who they really are, but Meadows, there was a murderer on the other side of it. And that's just inherently compelling. There's that episode near the end of season one when they, she overhears that the cops might be coming

and she goes to tell AJ get the porn off your computer. Yeah, get the porn off your computer. He's that scary? He's like, oh shit. Right. You know, one other thing with Polly, this is a hard quality.

I don't even know how to describe it and it's a good TV show quality and there's some people on the wire ahead of too, but anytime he's in the scene, especially if there's a lot of characters, it just felt like a more complete bigger scene. And they would do a lot. Like there's a scene later in season one

when the beginning, I think, episode 11, when they're all like in the massage house, whatever the hell that place was with all the prostitutes. And just how Polly would just interact in that environment? Like he loved the strip joints and all the seedy stuff. He was like, really the king. They would talk, the ladies would talk about how big as dick was. He was just like that was where he really thrived the most

in like the worst, seediest part in New Jersey. But it was always like, it always felt like, Oh, good. Paul is in this scene. You never were like not, not happy to have them. But I thought with Pine Barrens, this was really one of the first times they just let the non-tony characters kind of cook for an episode.

Van, how many times did that happen the first three seasons? Oh, not a lot. Because this can go badly with the great shows where they're like, oh, let's take the pressure off the main character and we'll give these guys a show. In the first three seasons, not a lot. I think that things got a little bit more intricate. it. They maybe did it a little bit more.

We got to know Richard Pryl pretty decently, but not in any real way that wasn't directly connected to what Tony thought of him, you know, minute to minute. Christopher got to go off and do a lot of his side stuff, but yeah, definitely not Pauly. Pauli definitely didn't get to just show this range as much as he did in this episode. And it's just so, so freaking entertaining.

He's even getting a manicure at the early, like they just give you so much of these great character details where he's like, yeah, put the top coat on there. It's just, it's perfect. Well, that's why the last shot of him is so great. It's the only time we see him completely out of sorts and dishevelled. This whole guy, he is germaphobe who somehow did, germaphobe who love prostitutes.

Like, that makes no sense. Whatever he did with his hair. Which I guess in real life, Tony Serico, like that was, he would jet it black and then do the streaks. Like that was, that was his thing. But, you know, he was just very pristine. And then in the Pine Barron's episode, it just completely falls apart. He's eating ketchup. He's lost his shoe.

He's got frostbite. His hair's going seven different directions. Tony's got to come save him. Like, he can't survive in the outside world. He needs to go back to wherever they make sense. Yeah. So, he doesn't do that as a strip joints. that's the thing.

Much of this show is about the meticulous control that these guys exact on their world. And they have all of these rules that are set in stone so that they can maintain control of the world that they live in. And anything that threatens control to the world that they live in,

be it the feds, you know what I mean, be it like a war from other families, they have to kill it or stamp it out or just breaking the rules. They want to control the world, as much as they actually adhere to these rules which they really don't. You can look at the show and tell. And to see them outside of it,

that's why it was funny seeing Chris in Los Angeles trying to keep up with Ben Kingsley, like at a gifting suite. Or when they went to Italy. Or when they went to Italy, you know what I mean? It's funny to see them not be in control because you're like, they really can't handle it. And that happens in Pine Barrens

probably with the greatest degree of success. Or when Tony goes to play golf, when those guys just want to hear, mafia stories from him. And they belittle him. Yeah. You know what I mean? They,

they, they actually belittle him. Like when Stringer tried to, tried to get involved with Clay Davis. Right. And Clay Davis just ran fucking laps around Stringer. Yeah. You know what I mean?

It's like they belittle him. I want to do at least two or three more Hall of Fame episodes of the show. Okay. I don't, at some point, uh, this summer. Because,

you know, I have a friend of mine who, remain nameless, who I was giving shit that they weren't watching the old man. And I was like, you've really fallen off. They used to trust you as a pop culture person. And I just feel like you've slipped. Like you're kind of washed up as a pop culture person. And my friend said, what am I missing?

Eight years ago, we had Thrones and Mad Men and Breaking Bad at the same time. I just want to get back to that. Stop talking me into these shows that aren't nearly as good as those. shows. And I was like, yeah, you're kind of right. Like, there was a Thrones Marathon two weekends ago. And I watched the last three episodes of the first season. I was like, my God, the show is fucking amazing. And same thing with the Sopranos. You watch these. And it's like, all right,

I'm trying to talk myself into the old man, which is tailed off, by the way. But there's just no contest. The Sopranos, the first thing. I was telling Jesse, our producer, he's like, should I watch? It's too late. I'm like, this isn't my. most important television show that we've ever created, unless you want to argue the wire. You have to watch those too. Wait, wait.

He's asking, should he watch the sopranos? Yeah. Yeah, there's not question. You've got to watch it. And it's not, it's not one of these things where it's like, oh, you're waiting for some shoe to drop. Soon as you get into this thing, you're in the world, it's moving, you're laughing.

It's, it's incredible. I feel like it's 20 years ago. The cell phones, where they can't even text each other, is kind of dated, but that's about it. It's like the tech, you know, where they're marveling

at the Russians like DVD player. And there's something else. You, I don't, there are very few shows to where you watch over the course of a show,

one actor, completely dedicate their life to a character. James Gandalfini, his portrayal of Tony Soprento is totally different from the pilot. The pilot works totally.

But, you know, the pilots filmed like a year before they film the rest of the show. The pilot works totally, but it is tonally so much different than the rest of the show. Right. And it loses nothing. You know, there's the narration is in it, which probably helped the pilot. And, you know, we don't understand what it's just like. So it's a really, the wire is the greatest show of all time. But this one is the best.

Yeah, it's like the Godfather, Godfather, too argument. Yeah, the Wires. The Godfather's the greatest movie of all time and God. feather too is the best. Like this is the best. Like this one, like when I just want to sit down because the wire makes you just like

just say fuck society, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's a commentary on society, America, you know, urban decay. It's like, wait, what show are we talking about?

The wire, for sure. I was saying that you could say the sprangles. Surreals is that too, but way less, you know, it's prettier. explicitly, yeah.

There's drama. There's like, beautiful ladies and there's like locales and the production value is super high and it's, but it's it, the Wire,

the Sopranos is a family drama that brings you back to the grittiness. The Wire is a gritty show that you have to kind of get the family themes and all that stuff out of it, you know? Well, and also the Sopranos ultimately

is two exceptional performances, like two of the best TV performances we've ever had, Edie Falc and Gendell Fiening. Yeah. And the Wire, which had a lot of great performances. but it was more of an ensemble show.

The Wiretman took McDulty out of what season was that? I think season four. Season four. Like, yeah, McDolte is the star of the show, not anymore. He's going to barely be in this season. Almost as if every single time they were like fucking with us. Almost as if they were like, nope, thought you knew is you definitely don't. Both, don't know the soprano is always new.

This was a show about this couple and all the people in their lives. An amazing show. Go check it out, Pine Barons. All of them are available on HBO Max. This podcast was produced by Jesse Lopez, who was somehow never seen The Sopranos. Another person who's never seen The Sopranos or isn't a fan of it

or hasn't been properly sucked in. Joanna Robinson said it's her one-flying spot. Wow. Wow. That is shocking. She said this is my weak spot. Spranos. Yeah, Joanna Robinson.

I know. That was my reaction. What the? shit. Hold on for a second. I know. I don't know what to tell you guys. How could that be possible? Now, fuck that. Sorry, like, 15 seconds on this. Is this true?

She told me was not a Sopranos person. She watched it once and just forgot about it. I don't think she watched it. We got to reach out to Jesus. He said it was a hole. She called it a hole in her resume. That's my podcasting soulmate right there. I know. Maybe this is a new Ringer podcast where we just force her to rewatch the Sopranos

or watch it, I don't know. Anyway, all right. Well, you can hear her doing Westworld every week on this feed, and we will see you down the road with more Hall fam episodes. Thanks, Wes. Thanks, fan.

Good to see you guys. All right, brother. Later, y'all.