The Prestige TV Podcast - The Streaming Service Power Ranking

Episode Date: December 18, 2020

Amanda Dobbins and Sean Fennessey rank the major eight streaming services: Hulu, Amazon Prime, Netflix, HBO Max, Peacock, The Criterion Channel, Apple+, and Disney+. Hosts: Amanda Dobbins and Sean Fennessey Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

I'm Amanda Dobbins. And I'm Sean Fennessey. And this is TV Concierge, a podcast about things that you can watch at home. Today, Sean and I will be hosting the first streaming services ranking on TV concierge. So get ready to argue about streaming libraries, user experience, and Baby Yoda, all coming up on TV concierge. Sean, hello and welcome to a different podcast from the one that we normally do together. Hi, Amanda. It's nice to see you in non-big-picture spaces. So we are here to talk about streaming services.

And I have been told by the powers that be that this is the first streaming services ranking on TV concierge, but not the last. And that this will be a recurring feature. Maybe hosted by us, but honestly, I think we're going to get kicked out of this one because we obviously have biases. This is probably a good time to say, you and I like movies. We do watch TV, but we like movies. So remember that when we are ranking streaming services with abandon. But that news is important because the way that we're going to rank the streaming services has to do with right now. It's in this moment as opposed to what Netflix did six months ago or what, say, Disney Plus is doing in three to six months, which I know is very important to you.

It is. I think it's probably important to recognize the fact that the streaming service economy is now just fully starting to look like cable. and there was a moment when you were a cable subscriber, when you could say, you know, I've got my basic package, but I also want to expand my package so I can get HBO or expand it so I can get Showtime or maybe I'm interested in what Encore is sharing this year. Now Stars has emerged as a possibility. And this is kind of what streaming is like now, right? I feel like most people, they subscribe to Hulu or YouTube TV or something like that

to get their basic cable. And then now we have this world of add-ons. And we have to decide, you know, am I a HBO Max guy? Am I a Netflix gal and what does that mean for me? Or am I like me, Sean, a sociopath and a subscriber to as much as I possibly can? I don't know. How do you feel about the way that this is evolving? Confused, always.

I'm a subscriber to a lot of services. I think I'm a subscriber to services that I forgot that I subscribed to, which I think many people listening will relate to. Some of them, I kind of was brought in by a company in a different way. And so I have access, but maybe that access has expired, but I don't know when it's going to expire. I don't know where the bills are going. I'm not organized about this, which is important to know. And I think a lot of people feel this way is that there is like no center. Unlike cable, you got the package. You knew you were going to have a certain amount of things.

And then you could add on. And a lot of people now do not have cable. And so they are picking and choosing and hopefully have a little bit more understanding of what they're paying for, but exist in kind of siloed worlds a bit. And so you can be a Netflix and a criterion subscriber, or you can be a peacock and a Hulu subscriber, and there's less meaning in the middle than ever before, which we talk about all the time, like, conceptually, right, in pop culture, like the loss of the monoculture or whatever.

But this is like a logistical thing where people are just on different services, watching different stuff. Well, I think there's some interesting things that drive people's decisions to subscribe to services. on the one hand, maybe it's because they have an incredible back catalog and library of movies and TV shows. On the other hand, maybe it's they have one show that you love. Maybe you love Ted Lassow and you got to sample one episode. And so you have to subscribe to Apple TV Plus. On the other hand, maybe it's the expectation of what you might get in the future.

You pointed out that Disney Plus is going to have an extraordinary 2021, 2022 based on a recent investor call. And so you're like, I just have to be here when all the MCU shows hit. So I think there are a lot of different things. that influence people. The thing is, is that once they get you, people rarely churn out. And so once you make the investment, all of a sudden, you get into the situation that you're describing where you're like, man, I'm a subscriber to Crunchyroll. I'm a subscriber to crackle. I didn't realize I was giving people money for these services. But once upon a time I did, and so I'm doing it in perpetuity. Yeah. I'm, I have that situation with Acorn TV, which is a service like I really enjoy. And a lot of, you know, British and Australian television. But I don't think I've watched something on

Acorn TV in six months. And I just, I honestly, I don't know where the payment option is. Again, perhaps this is just an organizational lesson for me. I think you're right. It does seem like we are reaching peak streaming service. And at some point, people are going to have to start evaluating these decisions. It is an economic decision to some extent. And, you know, Netflix prices are going up again next year. Things are getting pricey. And people are going to have to pick. So I guess that's part of our, the service here in this podcast? I don't know how much service we're doing. I think it's more an expression of our interests. Well, I think that hopefully we can do both things here. I think the thing that's really funny about what's taken place is that for 20 years, media watchers, journalists,

and people who paid close attention to their cable bill begged for uncoupling. They wanted to decouple certain channels that they didn't feel that they had to pay for these major carriage fees that came with them. And we finally decoupled almost everything. We've finally gotten these singularized services and you can pick and choose what you want. And honestly, I feel like the next step is just that they're going to get bundled again. Like the great bundling of 2025 is imminent. And soon, all of this stuff will probably be compressed. But before it is, we're going to just try to give you some guidance as to how you should spend your money. Yeah. So I'm going to break down the rules very quickly or the rules are we're putting things in order. The guidelines, the way we're thinking about

this, which is that there are four kind of major considerations. And again, these are reflection of the streaming services right now at this moment, December 2020. So we're going to consider the quality of the catalog. We're going to consider the depth of the catalog. We're going to consider user experience. And we're going to consider something called cultural influence, which is just really where things get dicey and opinions are expressed. But that's okay. That's what a podcast is for. We are also going to limit the ranking to what I've named the big eight. And I'm making up the rules on this podcast right now. So I just want to say going forward that the big eight can be different companies. Like there's room for a company that's not currently in the big

eight to reach the big eight. And someone can be kicked out. You're instituting the relegation model, a la the English Premier League is what you're saying here. So in the future, if we want to move in a new service and bump another one out, future hosts of this podcast need to play the game, even if they're not you and I. Yes, that just happened right now on this podcast because I love the English Premier League, as you know. Love to improvise as well. All that time at UCB is paying off.

You're crushing it. Okay. So I want to read some of the smaller services, the niche services, that are not currently a part of the big eight, but that exists. And you added some as well. So streaming services we will not be considering include CBS All Access, Crackle, shutter, crunchy roll, tubi, canopy,

and sports-related streaming services. Sorry to all of you also, Rans. I think that some of those services are wonderful. Shudder in particular, I'm a huge fan of. If you're a horror movie fan, check that out. But these are either more,

you know, specialized services that you just mentioned or just on the margins a little bit. I think what happens to CBS All Access is going to be notable as it evolves into more of a paramount product over the next couple of years and we see more stuff going to that

service. But for now, it doesn't feel like it can hang with these eight that you've listed here. Yes. Okay. So I'm going to read the big eight in no particular order. And in fact, the way I put them in the spreadsheet is maybe revealing an order, so I'm going to mix it up here. Okay. Okay. You ready? Yes. Hulu, Amazon Prime, Netflix, Criterion Channel, HBO Max, Disney Plus, Apple TV Plus, and Peacock. Those are the big eight. So where do we start? I mean, you want to just talk about each one and we'll just evaluate through those four categories you've created and say, I think this goes here? Sure.

I think we could also just be like, I think this goes here. I have a very clear number eight. And you can... Is it peacock? It is peacock. It is peacock. Sorry to peacock, but I knew that we were going peacock eight as well. Right.

Okay. So that's fine. You know, it's good to have clarity. Eight is peacock. I think peacock has a bright future. I don't, and I think it is actually doing things that are slightly different from the competitors right now. One of the things Peacock has is a series of channels that are hyper-focused on interests. There is a news channel. There is a channel that is entirely focused on the English

Premier League. There's a channel that is entirely focused on things like poker. There are a lot of like subdivisions of Peacock that I think are interesting and could develop over time. Not to mention it has a pretty cool library. Has some old movies. It has a batch of universal movies, some of which are for pay on the premium tier. But a lot of, I mean, Peacock is mostly free. And that's something that is a little bit different from almost every other thing we're going to talk about here. So it has potential. I just don't think it's reaching its potential yet. I think it's also important to note that the office will be on Peacock starting in January.

So that is its potential, quite literally, right there. The office is a huge streaming hit. And a lot of people just like to turn the office on. And it will be available on Peacock starting in 2021. my primary use case right now for Peacock is to watch the show Yellowstone, which is on the Paramount network, which I do not have. And so I have to wait for Yellowstone to come to Peacock about six months after the season airs to watch it there. But that's, I mean, that's one of the most popular shows on TV. So it's got something going for it. No shade to number eight. Yeah. Also, Andrew Gradadadero,

our colleague wanted me to note that the fast forwarding experience on Peacock is just not what you want it to be. And it's very frustrating and sometimes those things matter. So we're going to talk more about user experience later on. I've got some notes. Okay, number seven, I think there's also a pretty obvious one, and it really pains me. I don't know why it pains me. These are corporate entities, but I do feel that Apple TV Plus really programs for Amanda, and I appreciate that. I want to thank who's ever making those decisions for making the morning show and for making Sophia Coppola's new film available and for making the Beastie Boys documentary available. But no one seems to care about those but me. And

Apple TV Plus does have Ted Lasso, which has been a major part of 2020 TV. Full disclosure, have not seen an episode of it, but it seems a lot of people find joy. And that's what streaming services are about. But aside from Ted Lasso, it doesn't really seem like it's gotten a huge amount of mind share. It's hard to start from nothing. You know, I used Apple TV Plus this weekend. I'm going to share with you what I used it for. Okay.

I watched a Charlie Brown Christmas. Oh, that's nice. And the original version, the 1965 version, which if you're a subscriber to Apple TV Plus, you can watch. And you can watch it because Apple TV made a show called Snoopy in Space. And when they did so, they licensed all of the Charlie Brown movies, the Great Pumpkin Charlie Brown, the Thanksgiving special, all those classics with the Vince Goraldi music. But Apple TV Plus doesn't really have very much else like that. They don't really have catalog.

They only have, for the most part, this new stuff. If you're a Ted Lasso fan, it's reason enough to be there. People love that show. You're right. It's making people really happy. If you like the A24 movies, like On the Rocks, that's a great thing to check out. We loved Boys State. We talked about it on the Big Picture podcast.

You could find it on this service as well, the Beastie Boys movie as well. But the series works so far hasn't been great. And there's an expectation that they're going to turn it around and develop more good shows. But that opening gambit kind of landed with a thud. It's also an interesting one where an Apple TV Plus subscription, at least for the first year, did come with any Apple product that you purchased. And so a lot of people were brought in without actually making the decision to be like, yes, I would like Apple TV Plus. And listen, kind of just easy access and letting content flow over you is one of the most important facets of a streaming service.

Just like getting any barriers to entry. But I think that there was just a lack of knowledge of, oh, I have Apple TV Plus, and it's different from this Apple TV thing. And it's different from the Apple TV, the physical device. and you wonder whether they'll be able to retain those subscribers. Yeah, there are some messaging challenges. I would say from an interface perspective, it's not ideal yet. They probably need to re-skin the whole thing a little bit. But much like Peacock, I wouldn't bet against that Apple is one of the richest companies in the world.

They have decided to make this content. One other thing we should probably mention about it is that most of what this network, I guess, this streaming service network makes is PG-13. they're just not going to make things that are hardcore. If you want that, there are services that we can talk about that are coming up soon. But this is a mostly family friendly in the mold of a kind of a Disney. And that's apparently a top-down edict from Apple. Okay. Apple TV Plus at number seven.

Number six is interesting. I think there are two options. I know what I want to put at number six, but it also really doesn't make sense. So what would you nominate? Gosh. If you'd asked me a year ago, I would have said Hulu. But I've turned my story around on Hulu in a big way this year. I feel the same way. This pains me to do so, but I'm going to, I would say the Criterion Channel probably should be number six.

I'll tell you why. I'll tell you why. For me, the Criterion Channel is my number one. That's my number one personal favorite streaming service. So I don't want there to be any confusion because I am, as you know, a serious cinephile and I really care about movies. and I really care about the history of movies. And I think there is an endless, almost endless,

you could not watch all of the films that are offered on that service throughout the entirety of your life. However, I'm also a pragmatist. And the Criterion Channel simply is not going to be for everyone. So if this is on behalf of TV concierge, I think we have to recognize that there is some narrow casting involved

in what the Criterion Channel is doing. What do you think? I'm surprised. I honestly was like, am I going to have to battle you for the number one on this? Because I know you and I love your passions. And I also just think that Criotarian Channel is a wonder. It's amazing when you open it and it is pretty easy to use.

And then there are just all of these films that you never had access to that you can see and that you can then learn about because they have all of the supplementary material. And it's a real like we're living in the future. And I do understand that we're living in the future. You know, not all of the films are going to be for everyone and not everyone kind of wants to learn about. about like world cinema in the way that you or I do, but I just kind of can't believe it exists. It's extraordinary. I'll tell you what. Maybe it should just be flipped at Amazon Prime. Was Amazon Prime where you were going for the next one? It was. Amazon Prime was my number six. Okay. Let's make Amazon Prime number six and Criterion Channel number five. Um, Amazon Prime is another interesting one that

like in a year from now, you could tell me that it has significantly improved. I think it's got a couple of challenges. One, its original content offering is real hit or miss. There are some things I really like, like, I love the show The Boys. That's been one of their big hits. I know you're not a fan of the Boys. I'm even mad that the Boys gets advertised to me because I'm just like, this is not for me, and I'm giving you a lot of money to have an experience catered to me.

Like, stop showing me ads for this. I think that there's been a lot of inconsistencies over the years with Amazon's content offering. And I also don't think their interface is good. And it's kind of been bad for a long time. And I think it really needs to improve to heighten the sort of the quality of the viewing experience. That said, at various times, the movie catalog is amazing.

Like, truly the back catalog of like, oh, wow, this is just here now. I didn't even realize. And stuff is constantly being added and also removed. But if you just are a keen observer of what's going on in that service, there's just always something there for me to watch. And that's a big part of what we're talking about here. I agree with that. I also, I use it for add-ons.

The previously mentioned Acorn TV subscription is through Amazon. I also subscribe to Stars, which has one of my favorite movie libraries, like through Amazon and I do find the kind of all in one placeness of it. I guess I'm doing my own bundling. So that part of the user interface actually does work for me. I agree that finding stuff and how they promote stuff is not what it should be. I do think we should point out that like three of the best movies of the year, well, like five, six of the most best movies of the year if you're counting all of the small axes. And also Garrett Bradley's time are on Amazon. So that's why I was kind of like, this is ridiculous to put this at number six.

And I am told the boys is very popular TV-wise. But there's not really like a coherence of streaming vision, I would say, yet with Amazon. And it is another thing where a lot of people are just Amazon Prime subscribers. And so they have it, but they don't really think about it. I don't know. I would say it's been, you know, there are a couple of shows that the service is well-known for, the Marvel's Mrs. Maisel, for example, is one of them. It now has the Expans, which is a popular sci-fi show.

This was, Utopia was released this year. There are a handful of shows, but I don't think it has much relative to the rest of the services we're going to talk about. Right. Okay. So Amazon Private at number six, Criterion Channel at number five. Number four, I'm going to nominate Hulu. I'm genuinely torn between Hulu and Netflix right now.

Okay, that's insane. Respectfully, that's insane. And I'm not going to let you do that. You said you were a pragmatist and you said you're practical and we live in the real world, John, and people stream in the real world. Well, is this about popularity or is this about quality? Is this about experience? It's about all of it. It's about who's doing it the best.

There've just been a bunch of shows on Hulu this year that I love. And Hulu created this partnership with FX, which I think has historically been one of the very best networks on television for the last 10 years. And a couple of Hulu shows and a couple of Hulu FX on Hulu shows are awesome. I think the great was awesome. I think normal people was awesome. I think Debs was awesome. This is the network that has the Handmaid's Tale. You know, this is, it's a really good network. I mean, its interface, I think, is actively bad. And so maybe that's holding it back and that puts it at number four. And I can't believe how bad it has been for how long it has been like this. Even, I'll give you a very small example. The movie library is,

is much smaller on Hulu, but there are some interesting movies there, both originally made for Hulu, and they've had a big year with their own originals that they've been scooping up from other studios, but also library content. And removing a movie from the queue, and as you know, I manage my cues very aggressively, is just hard. It takes two steps on Hulu. And like, these things shouldn't take two steps. One click. Give me an X button. I can't believe that we made it this long without talking about cues. I absolutely don't use a cue. You just have to log on and click the first thing that you see and or go to the search function. You got to either seed to the algorithm

and or be decisive and seek out the content that you're looking for. I do not see it to the algorithm. I look for my content. I like Hulu a lot. I also just want to say, you mentioned, Happiest season in Palm Springs two of kind of like the big at home streaming

breakouts on Hulu. To say that Netflix should go below Hulu is I just think you're divorced from reality, unfortunately. I think it speaks more to my relationship with Netflix right now. But that's a whole other story. I guess we're going to get there shortly. Yeah. Okay. So you on Hulu at 4. I accept that. I think that's reasonable. Yeah. So we've got three contenders left. The big three. This is where it gets ugly.

So it's Netflix, Disney Plus, and HBO Max. Okay. Yes. So important technicality. This is what the services have right now and not what they are promising in the future. And I'm actually speaking about that in terms of HBO Max and not Disney Plus. HBO Max, which you and I love. You and I think it has like one, it does have one of the great movie libraries. If you want to watch old movies, if you just want to watch like studio movies from the 80s and 90s that shaped our brains, that's where you go. And it will obviously have a lot of blockbusters in the coming months. That's something of a drama. If you would like to learn more, listen to the big picture. But Wonder Woman is not on it. We're not recording

this on Christmas Day. And it's not 2021. yet. So you neglected to mention all of the HBO shows that are on that service. I mean, in addition to some of the best shows of the year, it has the best library. It has the best library of television shows. This is the network that gave you the Sopranos, that gave you the wire, that gave you curb your enthusiasm. This is, this is the network. I mean, this is the gold standard, the platinum standard of TV programming. And this is their new home. This is where they're putting everything. And that has to be weighed significantly. Um,

pooh, it's tough, you know, I think this time next year, you would definitely say that HBO Max has to be in the top two. Yes. I think its interface is still in a growing phase too. They just changed the interface on HBO Max.

And I think what they changed it to is less effective. They moved away from a carousel, uh, structure to a hero structure where there's only one thing that is advertised on the top of the interface. So, I mean, I guess,

I guess what you're saying here is that this is number three. I think for now. It is. I really believe me. Well, yes, I am because that's the nature of our relationship. And also because I'm trying to set up like the grand climactic showdown for two and one, which that's good content. If you make the, if you make Disney Plus and Netflix the final two, Netflix has to win because.

Yeah, Netflix has to win, Sean. Like, I don't. What are we doing here? Netflix doesn't make a lot of shows I like. That's just the truth. You know, that's because you don't watch good television. That's, that's just a patently absurd.

It's just. patently absurd. You like industry, okay? We don't have to get personal here, but like, fantastic show. Fantastic show. Yeah, no, I can't. Extremely boring.

Netflix had the Queens Gamut, which is absolutely the streaming breakout of 2020, is TV-wise. It also has the Crown, which is one of the great television shows of all time. It has just scads of reality TV programming that people are obsessed with. And it just developed the model. It has conditioned people how to stream. Its interface is absolutely the best. And it released Mank.

I do love Mank. Yeah. There you go. It made the Irishman last year. You know, it made the Noah-Bombach films. It's like... I love Netflix's commitment

to making original movies. I think some of those movies are not very good. Some of them are fantastic. I really appreciate that. It's TV programming is becoming more conventional by the day. And it is aping the success of network television

and basic cable every day. And it is like speaking to a kind of like baseline mainstream kind of TV that I don't care about. I don't care about bad sitcoms. I don't care about most reality shows. I just don't think that stuff is cool. It's just not. So, you know, does that mean it's, let's put it in context of Disney Plus. Disney Plus is different. I mean, you and I are adults. And so it's Disney Plus's catalog, which is profound and spans literally 100 years of Disney movies and TV. is not something that I'm personally returning to over and over again.

It does have me there for one specific reason, which is The Mandalorian, which is one of the best shows on TV. So is one show and 250 great historical movies that are mostly made for children enough? Well, there's also, like, cultural importance, which, you know, Disney Plus is, like, certainly the fastest growing of the streaming service

is they just had the full blitz of Star Wars and whatever announcements. And we're not supposed to give future credit, but in terms of just like pop culture, share and finance, share, and knowing, shaping really what streaming is looking like going forward, Disney Plus is like very much in the conversation. So I give them credit for that, even though I don't watch anything on Disney Plus.

Considering Wanda Vision when it comes out, because we still subscribe to it, because my husband watches The Mandalorian. But I don't think that you can underwerex. underestimate just the central nature of Netflix and Disney Plus. And we can't get too cute here. Like what? What do you want to put at number one? HBO Max? No, not necessarily. I mean, I think there's one other thing to consider one, Netflix is twice as much money as Disney Plus. That's going to change over time. But Netflix and Disney Plus both bump their prices, but there's still

a pretty big disparity there. Secondarily, if Netflix is going to win, here's why. Netflix invented the U.X here. They invented the experience that you have on a streaming service. They, you know, they propagated the algorithm. They are now at the forefront of the top 10, you know, essentially borrowing from digital media trends and looking at the way that people click on things that are ranked number one. And it's easy to use Netflix. It just, it feels natural. It's like a learned behavior that we have accepted into our bloodstream. And I respect that.

I mean, that kind of work is really hard. You and I helped launch a website. It was fucking hard. So I get that. I just, the programming is not my favor right now. I'd rather be looking at the original shows on Hulu or on HBO personally. That's just me. But if you want to make big Netflix daddy, you can.

Okay. I mean, this is not a ranking according to like how much you liked devs. Okay. And we all know that you liked devs. Great show. We gave the four criteria. So with those four criteria in mind between what is your proposed order, Netflix, HBO Max, and Disney Plus? Hmm.

I can't make HBO Max number one because they just made a move that effectively hurts movie theaters which I care about more than all of these streaming services. Okay, great. Thanks so much for joining this episode of TVConcy or Sean.

HBO Max, I guess, is number three and I guess Disney Plus is number two and I guess Netflix is number one. I don't feel great about it, Amanda. Okay, that's the correct order. I don't think that you need to feel like that eight corporations are an expression of your soul.

But I do think at this moment, Netflix is at the center of the streaming conversation. and it's really easy to use and I recommend the crown. I'm sure this will change. I'm sure this will change in a few weeks. And I'm sure a lot of people will yell at us. So I look forward to that. I look forward to whoever has to do these rankings next

because it won't be us, but they'll get my feedback. And that's it. Thank you, Sean, for ranking with me and for sharing your weird opinions. And thank you to everyone for listening. And we'll be back next week on TV Concierge.