The Prestige TV Podcast - ‘The White Lotus’ Season 2, Episode 6 Recap

Episode Date: December 5, 2022

Bill Simmons and Joanna Robinson recap episode 6 of ‘The White Lotus,’ including the cowboy reveal, the violent arcs reaching their ends, and what they think will reveal itself in the final episode.  Hosts: Bill Simmons and Joanna Robinson Producer: Bobby Wagner Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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I am here with Joanna Robinson. We theorized in our episode after Part 5, we're like, what's going on here? Where's Greg? What's going on? What's going on? What's going on with the English guys? Yeah. What is happening?

And we got some answers. We got a pivotal answer. We wondered in episode five. There was a monologue. by Tom Hollander, about the one time he fell in love with a cowboy. Handsome guy, 30 years ago, long time ago. And that was the one time, the one guy who got him. Other than that, nobody.

And then the end of episode six, Jennifer Coolidge, after an Emmy Award-winning cocaine party, about to have sex with the well-hung Italian guy. She's in the bedroom. She's like, hmm, what's this photo? Who's in the photo? It's a young Tom Hollander and a young Greg wearing a cowboy hat. and we are off.

What did you think? Oh, my God, I was, I was thrilled because this is, we got a lot of tweets and I got a lot of emails about this, about this cowboy Greg theory that hadn't even occurred to me when I was watching episode five. And I love it when a fan theory pays off, phase off immediately. So I was really excited for the fans, because they were excited about this sort of great cowboy idea. And I was like, maybe.

We were texting about it before we saw this episode. We were like, maybe, could be. So yeah, that felt really satisfying. And it pulled a lot of threads together. And there's a lot of juicy possibilities. Like there's the obvious possibility. This is a murder-long con. But then there's a couple other possibilities too.

So that's exciting. Well, we went back. We watched the end of episode two. Oh, almost in, like the second and last scene. When Jennifer Cool, his character, Tanya, wakes up. Where's Greg? Greg's on the balcony talking to somebody. You can't hear what they're saying.

But Greg says to whoever's on the phone with, all right, she's so stupid. She doesn't know what's going on. And then she says, I'm in love with it. I love you. He says, clueless as usual is what he says about her. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And then he says, I love you too. Yeah.

So we think after we did the pot after that episode, like, Greg has a second family. Right. So Greg, I have a girlfriend. Right. Do you think on the phone, Tom Hollander? Yes. but I don't think it's romantic on Greg's side. Because Tom Hollander, the Quentin character, right, he said when I rewatched the cowboy monologue too,

and he says, you know, he's heterosexual. Like, he wasn't into me that way, right? He was heterosexual. I was hopelessly in love with him. And so what I do think is that he's doing all of this for Greg. Everything that he's doing with Tanya is for Greg. But I don't think it's because they're in. love with each other secretly.

Or Greg is leading him on to make it seem like maybe there's a chance for us, but he's really using Quentin and Quentin's whole gang to pull a long-on on Tanya. But then the question is, now, Mike White didn't even know there was going to be a season two when he wrote season one. I think they all thought season one was just a mini-series that was going to end. Yeah. And then it was like, wait a second, why wouldn't he keep going? So as he goes back, he's like, hmm, Greg, how could I make that character?

more fun. So now we don't know that about Mike White as we're watching season two. But now it's season two, now you go back to season one. It's like, was this always a long con for Greg? Well, here's my question for you. Are you convinced that this is like a long con to murder Tanya, get her money, pay off the villa, etc.? Okay, that's what you do. Yeah, I think the key with that is drunk English guy at the end when, first of all, nobody's ever been that drunk in the history of a TV or movie show where they're just like, I'm just spilling all the secrets with us. Not off a beer. He's just doing beer the whole time.

Was he roofied? What happened? He had nine tequila shots that we didn't see. And he's telling Haley L. Richardson's character, Portia. Yeah. This whole, he's about to come in a lot of money. Yes. And all that stuff.

So that's what made me think it was a long time. Okay. Can you hold space in your heart for a wild theory for me on top of this? Oh, let's hear it. Let me buckle up. Okay. So what they want us to think, right, is that this is a long con murder to get her money. But I'm wondering if something else is going on here.

And I think it goes to the larger theme of fantasy in this season. Because what we learned about Tanya early in the season, in the two episodes where she's with Greg, is that she has this like Monica Viti fantasy. She wants her like primo Italian Sicilian fantasy. And he tells her sort of mysteriously, I wanted you to have your perfect day. before I told you the news. And then he says the news is that he's going back to Denver, I think it is. But, you know, you and I, like, watching that sequence where they're on the Vespa and there's, like, the fly and the hair everywhere and blah, blah, we're like, this is so, like, broadly comical what's going on here.

But, like, what's true is that whatever her fantasy was, like, Greg couldn't give it to her. He, like, couldn't have sex with her the way she needed. He couldn't do all this sort of stuff. So I'm wondering if the news is we thought my. cancer was gone, but is actually back and I'm dying. And he's trying to give her, like, that one perfect fantasy. Because that's what, that's what Quentin's giving her. If they are going to kill her, they're killing her with kindness by giving her, like, Monica Viti fantasy of, like, here's this, like, and it's just like a wild story where he's like, because that guy who's

sleeping with her at the end, like, that's definitely a, that's a rent boy. Right? Like, that's a sex worker, right? But he's like, he's maybe part of the mafia. And who he's got a gun. in his bag and who hears all this cocaine. And I just feel like that they're trying, I feel like they're trying to give her this fantasy. And I wonder if there's actually secretly like some sort of altruistic spin on this, that it's not murder, that it's like killing her with kindness almost. And then the reveal is he's dying. Because also in those Greg and Tanya scenes, I rewatch them at the beginning. And like, they mentioned the pre-nup twice. So my question is, I don't, I'm not a, I'm not an estate lawyer.

I don't know if you know this, but I'm not a state lawyer. But, like, if you die and there's a pre-up, like, does he automatically, like, does he get her money? Yes. If there's a pre-up, okay. 100%. That's why your theory, as much as I like it, is not the answer here because the only way he gets her money is if she dies while he's married to her. But the other thing is, like, I don't think Greg is destitute. Like, she met him out of White Lotus.

He was a guest at a White Lotus in Hawaii. So, like, she has more money than him, but I don't think he has no money. So I'm wondering, like. Well, one of the questions is how much money does she have? Because I think she's actually a pretty heavy hitter. We never really get answers for that. But she clearly has a ridiculous amount of money. And it's obviously a higher level than what Greg has.

Yes. She's obviously operating at a different level. But my question is like, what if Greg's dying? What if he told Quentin, you're going to get all my money? I'm going to die. I'm going to give you all the money I have. Not Tony's money, but my money. If you do this thing for me where you give her this, like, Sicilian fantasy.

Oh, so Greg. So Greg doesn't, he's not aware of the murder part because he told Quentin do this whole thing. But Quentin and those guys are like, we're actually going to murder this lady. And then Greg's dying anyway and maybe we'll get something from Greg. Maybe. But like, what if they're not trying to murder her at all? Because like, I think I, here's what's bothering me is that in a seven episode season, I don't like the murderer, Quentin, Tom Hollander saying in episode five, I would die for beauty too, wouldn't you?

Like, it seems so heavy-handed for him to say that so early. And so I wonder if there's one more twist. And also, like, if you look at White Lotus, it's not really like a, it's not a murder show. There are dead bodies, but like in season one, it wasn't a murder. It was like an accident. So like- Season two, we know there's a murder and we know there's bodies. A friend of mine was wondering if there was like a boating accident or something like that.

Like, how did all these dead bodies wind up in the harbor? Is it a boating accident or something? Or like the jet ski chicken standoff that we saw earlier in the season? Is it like a jet ski collision or something like that? Like, is there a way in which this could be still be accidental death, but a bunch of bodies in the harbor or something like that? Or maybe it's all the Quentinus people who have been planning and plotting how to kill Tanya. And Tanya goes on a murder rampage.

Yeah, who knows. But I think it's interesting that Jack, the nephew, the drunk, nephew. His whole mission, obviously, in this episode is get Portia out of the picture, right? Take her off. Get drunk. Keep her away from the party. I think it's interesting that Greg was also, like, when Tanya showed up with Portia, Greg's like, why is Portia here? Why is your assistant here? Like, we're supposed to be doing, we're supposed to have this like fantastic or romantical thing. Get your assistant out of here. So, um, I, you know, that's, so she was a complicating. I didn't think of that. She's a complicating factor potentially for their whole plan that they're going to have

that whole week. If it's a murder, absolutely, yes. If there's, like, a fan, like, she ruins the fancnalian. So then Quinn's like, I got, I'll bring in drunk Jack to just,

to seduce her for a few days and throw her off the scent as we're trying to be something else. I think he's also sex work. I think there's multiple secret sex work. I think, I think he's also, like, you know, the nephew, I would say it's a safe bet. Yeah.

Yeah. Well, let's talk about the other murder possibilities that emerge from this episode. And we can go back to Calboy Greg. I'm only, Holding on to my, like, secret, secretly, this is nice, but maybe that's dumb. And I'm ready to be wrong. Ethan's melting down.

Ethan's having almost a psychotic break. And let's just go through. The episode starts with Arby Plaza. Did you see that meme, by the way, about how people talk about the white lotus characters? No. And it was like, how do you remember every white lotus character? and it was like, Aubrey Plaza, Aubrey Plaza's husband,

that guy, that guy who's married to the other girl, the other couple, Jennifer Coolidge, and nobody can remember any of the character's names. That's pretty funny. Jennifer Coolidge's assistant, that's funny. Michael Pirioli, the dad, the son.

I'm just going to call her Aubrey Plaza. But it starts with her in bed confronting Ethan about his big night and basically having this come a Jesus moment. Are we even attracted to each other? You're not attracted to me. Yeah.

Like, why are we together? And Ethan's just like, honestly, it looks like he's melting down. And then something flips with her. And when she sees him talking to me and Lucia in the lobby. Yeah.

And that, like, Aubrey Plaza unleashed, I think the most faces she's had in an episode. There was like 11 different Arby Plaza faces. And she has this one face where it's like, that motherfucker. And now she's like, I'm going to really fuck with this guy now. She starts flirting with Cameron. Yeah. And we're off with that.

Hey, Cameron, who wants to get a drink? Oh, my wife's getting a massage. Ethan, let's go get a drink. I don't want one. Aubrey, wearing the bikini looking good. I'll go. I'll go. All of a sudden, up there in the bar getting super flirty. Ethan's having more of her breakdown. He's like, we're going to take a swim. I thought he was going to die there during the swim. Comes back. They're gone. Yeah. And we are off. They set this up for five and a half episodes goes back to the room. Hmm. Why is it latched?

What's going on here? Knock, knock, knock, hard knock. Hey, whoa, Jesus, I just came to get a hat. Why is that connecting door open? And I just thought all of it was really good. And she was great. I thought it was a great episode for her. And we're just like, all right, now what happened?

And that becomes the other thing for the episode. Right. So do you think that they hooked up in the room or do you think they didn't? I do. You do? I do. I do. I think they do.

Like, first of all, why do you latch the door? He didn't do that the whole week you were there. That was suspicious. Why is the connecting door open? We know Cameron was trying to hit on her and make the moves on her the whole time. We know she's so mad at Ethan at this point. She thinks Ethan's lying to her. And this is like the one way she can get the upper hand again.

And she's probably just going to like blow Cameron in her room or something. And then she latched the door and that was it. I mean, I do think it's definitely a power play. Absolutely. Like even if she's even if they didn't and she's just fucking with him. Do you know what I mean? Like it's a power play. And I think it has to do with something that Ethan, what Ethan was talking about when they went wine tasting when he was like talking about wanting the thing because someone else has it, right?

That that's what Cameron used to do to him in college, like go out for all of all of his girls. And I'm like, I wonder if Ethan now, because, you know, she was right. When she confronted him earlier, she's like, we're not sexually attracted to each other anymore. I don't want my sexual life to be over. We're too young to be this old, is what she says, right? Yeah. And so I'm wondering if, like, suddenly he's going to be attracted to her again because she is desired by Cameron.

Yeah, yeah, exactly. When she was lying on the bed with the nightgown ready for his little pheromone post-jog thing and he's like, hey, I'm going to take a shower. That was pretty alarming if you're her. But I think also that plays into this because the only reason I don't think they did it is because we see that, like, fantasy in his head of what happened. You know what I mean? That dark, like, upsetting fantasy.

And I think a lot of this season, because I think it ties into what we see with F. Marie Abraham Burr's character in this episode, is about that danger of fantasy. Portia, too. Like, Portia goes off with Jack, the nephew Jack, who has been, like, fulfilling her fantasy for the last couple episodes. Then she's like, oh, no. He's like this drunken piece of shit mess, something.

Like, this is her fantasy gone completely wrong. in this episode, right? And then Ethan has this really dark fantasy of like, what if Cameron's fucking my wife, you know, when she goes up to get a hat? Like, what if that happened? Well, and then Jennifer Coolidge gets her, this is my big night.

Right. This is my thing. Partying with younger guys and then end up with the thing. And then the three generations, that's the funniest version of that, which we'll get to later, where it's like, we're going to go back to the homeland and see our relatives.

It just couldn't go worse. I think they definitely were at least starting to hook up when he was banging the door. I don't know why else he would lash the door. I mean, I agree with you. I don't know why else he would lash the door. And why is Cameron there in the other room? Why would they boat just go back?

Hey, we're having drinks and tequila shots. Let's go back to the room. Like, I'm sorry. As you know, I'm suspicious of everyone on this show. She had a motive. He had a motive because he probably guessed at this point that Ethan's throwing him under the bus with, what were those two girls doing that night? Ethan's like, it wasn't me, it was him.

And now he's got to get something over on them because he doesn't want his wife to find. So everyone had motives, and they were attracted to each other. And she's a little sex starved, let's be honest. Like Cameron's kind of throwing it her way, giving her, making her feel like she's in demand again. I think it's almost more interesting if they didn't, but Ethan thinks they is convinced they did.

Do you know what I mean? Well, we're going to find out next episode. One way or the other. Yeah. It's one of the things. So then they come back and the wife, it's just the Daphne, it's hard to know how much she knows about Cameron. She knows stuff, right? She knows he's a dog.

She's like, just how bad were you is something she asks him, right? We got a lot of good theories from after our episode five podcast. One of them was that we missed it when Daphne shows Aubrey Plaza, the phone, when she's She's like, do you want to see a picture of my trainer? And it's her two kids. And Arbery Plaza says, those are your two kids. And she's like, oh, is it? And takes the phone back, which I just thought, I thought it was just a weird scene and her being weird.

But then there were some theories that the older kid had blonde eyes and blue hair. And she had laid the groundwork audience and said, I have this handsome trainers, blonde with blue eyes. And people are like, you idiots. That was definitely her son with the trainer. I'm not willing to go that far, but I do wonder, like, I don't think it's a bad theory. I think, I mean, I don't know if this is true of your screener. My screener didn't have that photo.

Sometimes the screeners you get like VFX sort of to come. And so my screener was just a blank screen on the cell phone. So I didn't see the photo of the kids. Oh, mine had the photo. Okay, yours had the photo of the kids. I didn't have the photo of the kids in my screener or like I watched it a while ago or whatever. And like, so I didn't see the photo. I think that's a decent interpretation that like if she's talking about.

talking about her trainer, and she's like, this is, this is what I do. This is my fiction fantasy that I hold up. But there's also, like, the flip side, I think of that fictional fantasy theme of the season is, like, transactional sex and, like, how there's something kind of purely honest about transactional sex. Like, we'll talk about what happened with Valentina and Mia in this episode. But, like, with Daphne and Cameron, I don't like to think of them as aspirational because there's a lot of a lot of shit I don't I hate about Cameron but there is something like kind of direct about there like if she knows that he does all this bullshit and she's like yeah but I do my own bullshit and that's just that's just the game we play and then also we like early in the

season she just talked about how whenever she gets stressed she just spends all of his money so again that's transactional like that she's like this is what I get out of it I go shopping and I spend his money. And so how does that make her that much different from some of the sex workers that we've met? You know what I mean? It's a relationship that doesn't seem like it has any baggage to it, which I think is really unusual, right? Like, whatever faults that they know or don't know about one another or whatever they think the other might be up to on the side or whatever, they're just like when they're together, they're good. And it doesn't come up. Or they're not pretending that it's love. Like there was that, you know, in Quentin's whole cowboy Greg monologue,

He was talking about, like, I don't really understand love. I get, like, sex and I get companionship. But I don't get, like, romantic love except for this one guy, this cowboy that I met. Yeah. And I wonder if I don't know that Mike White believes in, like, romantic love. I don't think there's any romantic love that made sense for us in season one. And season one, of course, ends with a character that we hope is going to leave her new husband who sucks, staying with him seemingly for, like, financial reasons. You know what I mean?

So, like, I think Mike White is working on this long theory about transactional relationships and how they're more honest at the end of the day than, like, Ethan and Aubrey Plaza and her husband, Ethan and Harper, thinking, like, we have a love story of some kind. And she's like, do we? Like, is that what this is? You know? I'll go further because I was thinking about this after the episode. Everything you just said, plus this.

I wonder if Mike Wait, the reason he wanted to do this show, he's obviously obsessed with the class stuff. But really it's like, hey, don't be jealous of these people. These people are just as fucked up as everybody else. And we're going to dive into this. These families that it seems like they're in the perfect situation in their gigantic four-bedroom suite at the best, you know, place in Hawaii or here in Italy, these three father, son, grandfather are all going Italy. All these people are just as fucked up as you. The only difference is they have the money to spent to do stuff, but they still have all the same baggage and all the same shit going on.

And I think that's what he cares about, because who's normal on this show? There's been no normal people in two seasons. Alexandria Didario's character is probably the closest in season one. But even her, she was like kind of a moron, right? She's trying to become a reporter just doing like bad work and she knew

it was bad and she clearly married somebody because at least one of the reasons was the guy had money. He was a jerk. That's what I'm saying. She wanted to be in this world. She stays with him Like for the money And that was like That was a real moment at the end of C's one

We're like, well, what show are we watching? That she, we thought we were rooting for her to like escape this bad marriage And then she just goes back to him in or is with him This is an HBO staple. HBO loves this with all of their shows. It's all like, don't be jealous of these people. Don't be jealous of this. You can watch from afar like look how cool this is

And look how awesome freaking Jeremy Strong's birthday party was in succession. But watch what's actually happen. happening here, you know? But also like, you know, don't confuse, don't think that anyone's ideals or morals are stronger than the pull of luxury and ease and money. You know what I mean? Yeah, even like the good people on this show. Yeah. The quote unquote, yeah, the quote unquote good people. It's a really cynical read, but I don't think it's inaccurate, you know, so. Are you looking for support in your weight management journey? Zepbound terseptide may be able to help. Zepbound is a prescription medicine used with a reduced calorie diet and increased physical activity to help

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Man, what, you put those two seasons together now, and especially after what we got in episode six, this is like a really good, this is a really good combo. This is kind of moving up the ladder for me. HBO-wise, it's funny. I've heard some people say White Lotus season two isn't as good as season one. And I just disagree.

I think it's like the perfect second season. It's exactly what they had to do. It's going in different direction. It has a lot of the same DNA. Yeah. And I think it's really solid. Let's go to the DeGrasos. Yeah.

They have. I love this. outcome. You know how Mallory last week floated the theory that, like, Lucia would be related to them? And so when they were going and they're, and Burke kept going like, what if we find someone related to? What if we find someone related to?

And Lucia's there as their translator. I was like, oh, my God, Mallory is going to be right. And then they went in a completely different direction. But. Well, we start the episode with just them, them banging away again as waves are crashing against the white lotus. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah.

But they decide they're going to go see their family heritage, which is the funniest thing. And this is, I'm half Italian. My mom's whole side is Italian. This is like a big Italian thing. We've got to go back, see where we're from. And you have this romanticized ideal of how it's going to turn out. This was one of my favorite scenes in the history of the show when they go see the three crazy meet Italian witches who are basically in everyone's family, right? This is the worst case there of how it goes where I curse you in your kind.

Fuck off. She's just so angry and just can't believe that they thought they could just waltz in with their nice clothes and be like, I'm your rich relatives from America. Aren't you happy to see me? They're like, fuck off. Fuck you. Where are you here? I fucking loved it.

I love that they show up. And they're like, I think it's Dom who says, well, come this far, we've got to go in. And I was like, what do you mean you got to go into some stranger's house with no introduction? It's not a museum. Like, what do you mean we got to go in? Yeah, they're human beings living in their days there. What are you doing? And you don't, like, you know, they thought they had a translator with them.

But like, but when Albi's like, I have got a translator for us, Dom is like, oh, good idea. And I'm like, did that not, how did you think you were going to do this without a translator? Like, what are you guys doing? So this is, this is Bert's big fantasy, right? The, the, what, you know, he has his whole speech he gives at breakfast, I think, about like, you know, what a true homecoming. When you find families a true homecoming. And I think that fantasy is tied to this idea that Bert has fucked up his entire life with his family. And he's like, what if I get to start over new with this new branch of the family?

And I get to be, as you said, like the rich American relative who comes in. I'm hailed as a hero. And I get to be like, you know, a welcomed, loved member of the family when he knows that he is like seriously fucked up his own family. And I, and like that just blows up in his face in the biggest way. Yeah. It's basically, we'll go. go here, it's going to go great. It's a homecoming for us.

We're even going to see the relatives that we could have known in a different life. And this is going to be just this incredible bonding experience. And what happens is you get this old Italian witch screaming at you, fuck off! Get out of here! I loved it so much. I mean, the going back home, where are you from in Italy is such a big part of Italian culture. And just, you know, this show has hit a lot of, and it's weird because Mike White's not Italian,

but this show's had a lot of beats about just hardcore Italian American culture and like how important the Godfather is. Maybe he's like half Italian. I was wondering if he was like Irish or something. Anyway, I love that how much like I was thinking about the Godfather luncheon conversation because like that's the whole Michael fantasy, right? Michael goes just like connects with the Sicilian side of the family. But like that literally blows up in his face like literally.

Bologna blows up. Like that is not, that's a fantasy that gets exploded for Michael and he just comes back to America. Same thing in Godfather too, where De Niro, as Young Vito,

goes back and kills, I think, kills the guy. Well, that's like a fantasy fulfilled. Not Don Thomasino,

one of the donts, but yeah. Yeah, kills the guy who basically destroyed his whole family. But yeah, every time somebody goes back to Italy

in a good movie or a good TV show, it's usually going to go sideways. Yeah. It just is. And it's, and it's, always never as good as you think.

We also feels like Albi's officially getting played because we have Lucia coming with them. But then what would you call Pimp guy? I don't think he's... What's the 2020 version of the word Pimp?

I appreciate your asking. I think that I think that this is a con as well because... Yes. I said in last week's episode I was like we hadn't seen Alessio

before this guy and so I was like no he's in the first episode so I went back and watched that and they're walking down the street towards the hotel and Lucia just goes cha Alessio and he's like Chi Vidiyao and he's like to you

and yeah but they just look like friendly friends right good Italian accent by the way that's impressive and when she leaves a hotel to go with Albi and his family she goes to talk to the guy who works there say something to him and then they're like

oh you seem like you know lot of people work here. She's like, oh, he's just a brother of a friend of mine. So I feel like that's Alessio's brother. And she's like, go tell Alessio to get in his biggest car and go like, you know, follow us around on this island. Because again, this is Albi's fantasy of being able to rescue, White Knight rescue her from some sort of terrible situation, right? And I think she's just concocted this fantasy for him to get, yeah, money from him or to have him and or have him take her to America. You know what I mean?

I'm just trying to think in the history of movies, television, the guy who falls for the stripper, the sex worker, all that stuff. I can't remember a happily ever after situation with that part. Richard Geer? Richard Geer and Julia Roberts? They broke up like two weeks later. Probably. It's like, stay in the apartment.

Where were you? Yeah, that was done. That didn't last. Come on. He's bringing Julia Roberts around. She learned how to use all the proper forksbill. Of course, he's bringing her around. Yeah, maybe.

Maybe they made it. I can't believe they never made a sequel to that movie. The 10 years later, darker pretty woman would have been just out of control. It's too late now, I feel like. Is it? I don't know. Maybe it's not. I mean, she made that terrible George Clutie movie.

Who knows? But yeah, I think it's pretty safe to say there's, I mean, maybe this whole show is a con, right? Mia gets the, looks like she's got the piano job, or at least she's got the in on it. had this long con with messing with the original piano player. I mean, unintentionally a little bit because she gave the wrong drug, but now she's in a good spot. She's just banging away at the White Lotus on the keys. But I think that this is, just to like go back to one more thing with Lucia, I think

she's doing all this. And I still think she likes Albi. Like she, like, I don't think she wants Albi to get hurt in all of this. She just wants either money or for him to like take her with him. but like, I don't think she wants, it's not like, I think she has some sort of soft spot for him as well. I think that's in the mix. Anyway, but you can. I'm going to push back only because we saw how mad she was when she didn't get the other $1,300 from Ethan.

So I think, I think the money is the, man. No, I know, but the money is the driving force here. And if she feels like, if she feels like she can grab a big payday from, I mean, you have a bunch of people who aren't really in this world who are. who are trying to figure out how to get a payday, right? Because you have, you have Quentin and his whole crew. You've Jack, Jack, drunk Jack. I can't pay for a single meal. Yeah.

Eve Greg, all these people. All these people. And that's another part of this whole theme that Mike White is playing with, which is like there's the people who have the money and then there's the people who are pretending to have the money or like, you know, like. Or the third level, the people aspiring. to be one of the first two groups.

Right. Like, Sydney-Sweeney's friend in the first one, right, that she didn't have as much money and she was there with her family. Like, that was my memory of that dynamic. Anyway, Mia having sex with Valentina, again, this is transactional. She wants something. She wants the job, right? So she's doing this.

But there also felt like there was kindness in there as well. She liked her. Yeah. I thought she pulled it off, whether it was the part performance or whatever. Because didn't she say in the first episode, didn't they insult her? One of them did. They called her like an old. They called her a witch, a straga.

Ugly what, yeah. Yeah, yeah, like all this sort of stuff. And I think she is like, let me do this for you. It's your birthday, right? She gives her the Marilyn Monroe happy birthday, Mr. President. Go backwards. You know? This was a great Valentin episode.

because she thinks she might have a little something with that other lady in the hotel who's like, oh, my boyfriend Rocco, we've been kind of secretly dating and she's just like, you could see her face. Like she's, I thought we're getting birthday drinks. What's going on? We're not vibing the way I thought. No, you're actually not. And Mia just sees it. But I thought Valentin, I thought that character really paid off in this episode.

She was excellent. This really rescued that whole, like I was critical of this storyline last week. because it reminded me a little too much of Armand. But I think having her, again, this is her fantasy. Like, she gets one little drop of kindness from this woman, Isabella, who is literally kind to everyone. It's her job, right? Yeah.

And she, like, could cost this whole fantasy in her head of like, oh, we're going to date. And this is going to be it for me, right? And then Isabella's like, actually, I'm engaged to Rocco. So, no. Yeah. But I'm very nice about it, you know, but, like, you know, says it. And so then, like, to go from that fantasy. Well, do you think she knew?

She might have at least gotten the signs a tiny bit that Valentina was sweet on her. Yeah. I think she got the sense. I think she did. Because she just had that frozen happy hotel clerk face. Yeah, just a little uncomfortable. But it was like, you got to kind of know what's going on a little bit. So this is her boss.

So it's uncomfortable, you know. Yeah. And her boss who like demoted her fiancee to the beach club just, you know, out of jealousy is, you know, not someone, I guess you want to fully mess with. But to go from that, like, pathetic fantasy of, like, latching onto someone who isn't interested in you to this thing with Mia, which isn't, like, a romance, it's, again, it's transactional. But there's something kind of beautiful in it, right? Because it's like, I'm giving you something you need. You're going to give me something I need, which is this job.

And there's something kind of pure and honest in that, you know, that I really liked. Yeah, she's like, I have a special present for you. And the present is in all expenses paid trip to the destiny that you've wanted to explore all along here. And Valentina, the actress, what's actress's name? I can't remember. It's Sabrina Impatiatorre. She did great job with her face in the second half of this episode because she had like that witch, angry kind of, oh, I don't want to mess with that lady face and just demeanor.

And every way she acted around the hotel, we can tell there was something else going on. And then that second after the episode, it's just like this cloud lifts over her. Like, she's like, just, I don't know, there was a happiness to her that I thought was really cool. I thought this was, I thought she was the best person in this episode. And a lot of like vulnerability, you know what I mean? And I think, yeah. And I think we first saw a glimpse of it like the first time she decided she had a crush on Isabella. and there was just something about her face that just sort of like softened and blurred almost.

And she was just sort of like dazed and dazzled. And I think, yeah, seeing her kind of come unravel in this episode. I love this for her. So I don't know what happens with them in episode seven because. Well, I'm so sorry that her seemingly like her next day at work or very soon, she's going to have to do with a bunch of dead guests. So I'm sorry that that's coming for her. But, you know, that's on the horizon.

Yeah. Well, and then let's go back to Tanya. I wrote down Tanya's Palermo dance cocaine orgy of just Jennifer Coolid's just cooking with gas

this episode they show her all the cocaine and she goes I haven't done that in a long time and Quentin goes it's like riding a bike and she's just

in banging it out really good kind of druggy dance sequence where a little slowbo with some happy music and just going back let's do some more

cocaine I got to say Jo in it Maybe think that there should be an experience where people who love shows like this, we should be able to go into a scene like that and just snort fake cocaine. Because it's fake cocaine, right? It's like candy. I've always just wanted to try it. Is there a fake cocaine experience?

Yeah, because I've never even been in the same room with cocaine. But like when the actors, when they do it, like, what does it feel like going up your nose? Because I know it's like a fake powder that's not supposed to be bad for you, right? but they're like chugging it down. I just kind of want to know. What's it like? Yeah. I don't know how much I can talk about on a podcast,

but like the... I'm talking about the fake cocaine. I'm talking about what the actors have to do when they're just blowing lines for like 10 seeds. I think it still burns. I think it still burns when you snort powder up your nose. You know what I mean? What do you think the powder's made of?

I'm going to Google this after we do the pod. I don't know. It's got to be something like pretty benign. but nothing is good when you're snorting it into your nose. That can't be a single thing that would be decent. There's still going to be a post nasal drip situation. But like I think that are you talking about like in a VR setting or like a in a cool immersion like, you know, theatrical experience?

White Lotus season three. Come in. You can start fake cocaine with three of the characters. Who's your top three like white lotus characters to do fake cocaine with, Bill? Oh my God. Let me think. Great question. Probably Cameron's in there.

I think Jennifer Coolidge, absolutely. And probably Michael Imperiali, just for like the Sopranos connection. I think that would be the three. How about you? Anybody who would have been your number one draft pick? I think Quentin. 100% Tom Hollander.

Yeah, you're right. Quentin has to be there. He had that like veteran experienced vibe. He's just like, come on. It's like riding a bike. This whole scene was everything they did with the Palermo thing, I thought was awesome. And then on the flip side, you have Portia with drunk Jack, just kind of being like, oh, my dream guy, this is going to be my big fling in Italy.

And it's like, oh, this guy's just garbage. Albie's like, I'm not looking so bad now, am I? Yeah, it's, I loved, actually one of my favorite parts of the cocaine sequence is round two or whatever. when she comes back, she's like, can we look in your cocaine bag? Like, do him work in there? I want to do more. And that's when they pull out the gun and you're like, oh, no. My wife had some thoughts on the Italian handsome guy for hire.

What's the politically correct for the, I realize that you go to blow anymore or no? You can say sex worker for him too, if you want. Great. She said he was in another show that she loved. I can't remember the name of it. of it. It's one of those shows that like I don't even I don't even remember the show. But that she, he was the hot guy in that show too.

This would be if you're Jennifer Coolidge, even before you see the photo account by Greg, this is the red flag. Where Clinton's like, I have this young, well-hung Italian guy who's ready to party. It's like, why are you doing? Yeah, Stud. Why are you doing all of this for me? What's going on? Why do you like me this much? I just would be

suspicious if I was her. And I had a lot of money, right? But I did like, I liked her conversation with Portia, where she's trying to talk to Portia. And she's like, because you were wondering what the fallout would be from what she saw. And she was just sort of like, I don't really think that's his nephew, by the way. And I don't think you should, you know, put all your eggs in that basket. And I just, I liked it because, I mean, I think Tanya could have tried a little harder. But, like, I think she's been so selfish for so long.

So to see her looking out a little bit for Portia, you know, or caring at all. What happens to Portia made me happy. I have a counter. Yeah. This is my biggest nitpick of this show. How does she not tell her the next day? Hey, Jack saw him banging boots with Quentin last night, just FYI. Like she doesn't want to tell her because she's like, I'm having such a good time in Palermo.

This would ruin it. So I'm just going to keep this one to myself. How does she not tell her? hour, though. But, like, well, also, how does she not have a bigger reaction to seeing Greg in that photo? She's just sort of like, is it the cocaine? She's just sort of like, that's, that's wild. You know, that's a good question. But is that, like, the whole night, you know what I mean? I think she's so coked up. She almost doesn't even know if it's real, right? She's looking at like, man, that looks like Greg,

but she's probably so out of her mind, hard to process. Maybe she wakes up the next day and the next episode and it was like, wait a second, what was that photo? I'd say, we've seen the episode but Mallory hasn't, and I can't wait for Mallory to see that? Because Mallory's question was like, can we envision him as a cowboy from 30 years ago? And I dug up some old photo of the actor in a cowboy hat. I was like, maybe. And they found an even better photo of him in a cowboy hat. It's pretty funny.

You know, that guy's, I can't remember. What is his name in real life? I'm Googling him. I think it's John Grease. John Grease? Grice. Grease. You know he is on 9-2-0, by the way?

Well, I was going to get there. He's been in a lot of stuff. He, what are my goofy, goofy 80s movies that I love is running scared with Billy Crystal and White Lotus. And him and Stephen Bauer are two of the rival cops. This is like 1986. This is, I don't know, 36 years ago. But he was like one of those guys for a long time.

And his big role was 902.1. He was the dealer that Dylan O'Deed. And he had like a big multi-episode arc, came back in a dream sequence, tried to kill Dylan again. Other than that, anytime I saw him in anything, I was just like,

oh, that guy from 902 and O, this is a pretty big part for him. I almost wonder if they knew Greg was going to be this big of a piece, would they have even gone for a bigger actor? Not that he's not good, but you know what I mean? I know 90210.

I'm not a 90210 scholar like you are, but I do know 90210. But I know him best as like Uncle Rico from Napoleon Dynamite. I think that's like one of his big defining roles. And I think that's a good one. When he showed up in season one, I was surprised by how small his role was in season one. And then he was only in a couple episodes this season.

So, you know. Apparently he was in Lost for six episodes. But yeah, you look at his IMDB. It's like 200 things. Oh, yeah. He's in Taken. Ben Linus's bad dad on Lost. Yeah, yeah.

He was Leon Nisen, one of Liam. Yep. And Leon Nissen, one of his buddies in Taken. And Taken, they would always throw one scene where Liam Nissen's like having barbecue with his buddies talking about the old days. And I think he's one of the guys of that. But yeah, this is a pretty big role for him as Greg Hunt. Cowboy Greg.

Yeah. Officially now Cowboy Greg. So we got to talk about drunk Jack for a second. Okay. He says, he gives us a couple crucial tidbits as he's just out of his mind rambling like he's been given true serum. He said his uncle isn't rich, said his family's not rich. And she's like, well, wait a second. I thought, is that your uncle or not?

And basically he admits it's not my uncle. And then he says, I was in a fucking hole. Sometimes you do things you don't want to do. So my wife, my wife had a question for the podcast because she was confused by this. In a fucking hole, does that mean, was it gambling? Was he just poor? Like, was he just a sex worker on the street that they grabbed? What do you think his background was here?

I think just poor. I think because of like how thick his Essex accent is, I think they're like coding him as like having grown up poor. And I wonder if that you do things you don't want to do. We're supposed to think like murder, bum, bum, bum, like, right? That's what we're kind of supposed to be thinking. But I wonder if it's just like having sex with men because like that's what he when he first That's what I took it for. Yeah.

Yeah. When he first meets Portia in the beach club, right? He's like, yeah, I go to all these parties. and it's just like a bunch of men and they're very, like gay men and they're really, really, really aggressively hansy with me. So I think he's just been like, you know, having sex with men because that's, that's, that's, Quentin's like, I can rescue you from poverty if, if you come do this. And, um, but I think, you know, like Cowboy Greg, he's probably straight and like having sex with Portia is like actually, you know, more what he actually, wants to do sexually. But then he's also, like he also seems like he's been told to do that,

right? Like get distract Portia, get Porsche out of the way. Like, tough, tough beat for Porsche with her Italian vacation where she thought she met this sexy English guy, kick an accent. Should have been a red flag that his accent was so much different than Quentin's accent, which Mallory pointed out last episode. Again, it's these like vacation fantasies. Like, all of these vacation fantasies blow up in your, face, whether it's like the big Sicilian family you think you're going to find or, you know, the hot guy who's going to throw you around in the bedroom or whatever. It's like is, you know, what's the reality that's worth chasing?

And that's, that was her whole, she was trying to have this like deeper conversation with Jack as he was just like downing the Budweiser's. But like, you know, what do you want? And she said she wants to be satisfied. And so maybe like the idea is like, a fantasy is never going to, a fantasy is never going to satisfy you. So what can satisfy you? You know? Prediction for episode seven.

Okay. What do you got? Lay it all out for us. I like jet ski accident in the harbor. I like I like Ethan kind of snapping. When I was rewatching episodes one and two, Daphne says this thing about, because cameras on the phone,

he's screaming about his luggage. And she says this thing to Harper where she's like, he's got a really long fuse. And he'll stay really, really calm. and then he'll snap. That's what you're talking about in terms of Cameron. And I'm like, I'm so confused by that jet ski sequence we got earlier because it just seems so like aimless.

I was like, why did this happen? And so I wonder if they're going to do jet skis again, but neither one of them is going to swerve. And that's how they die, something like that. What do you think? I think that's a great theory. Jennifer Kulag's the odds on favorite just because they've been setting up the old seasons.

for her to be involved somehow. Very true. I would have thought Albi was a bigger suspect after episode five. But now I don't see that one. But we could see Lucia or Mia. They definitely possibilities because things are going a little too well for them right now. Right? All their stuff's working.

So maybe that's a possibility. I don't think anybody from the DeGrasso's, I think I'm ruling out. They're going to be fine. See, yeah. Cameron and Daphne, I think for six episodes, it's been, you know, when they're together, it's just all great, right? They both have these secrets left and right. But I do wonder, like, is there a reason for that?

Are we headed? Because we know with all these characters, right? It all comes out at some point. And could something happen with them that we know she lives at the end, but we never saw Cameron. He's not in the beginning in episode one. I think that he's not in the beginning next to him. were pretty telling.

So he, to me, is a dead person suspect. And, yeah, that's it. Because we know Valentina is alive at the end. I wonder if Bert, like, because he says multiple, Rocco is talking to Valentina at the beginning. And he says multiple guests, right? And if I'm chasing my theory that none of these are going to be like a murder, it's all going to be like an accident of some kind.

I wonder if it's like, with somebody floating in the water. So that's the one thing we know. Jet ski accident plus Bert dying of being an elderly man. Because he's walking around with that bandage on his head for half the season. You know what I mean? Like I feel like they're telegraphing his frailty. So like he could die also just by, you know, did to being an older man sort of thing.

Well, we know Daphne. Daphne finds the body. And the way she reacts, it's not, doesn't seem like somebody she knows that close. unless she can't see the face, which we don't know. But it does seem like her reaction is more, this is a dead body versus like, oh, my God, that's Ethan? Yeah, it's really hard to know. Like, she's screaming her head off.

Is that the scream of someone who is just like, oh, my God, it's a dead body or that's a dead body, I know. I don't know how different my screams are being. Or is it the dead body of Cameron that she knows is going to be the dead body because she killed him. Because she killed. And then she has to act like she's so horrified. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Well, and then we didn't mention the Ethan killing Aubrey Plaza possibility too, because they've been setting that up for two episodes that he's having a psychotic break. He's not doing well. That is definitely for certain. Like, what would be more satisfying to you? Someone's snapping and choking someone to death, like a murder or an accident? What's more satisfying to you in this season of television? They've set up the murder plot with Tanya painstakingly. and that might be a red herring.

The concept of one of these couples just hitting a breaking point where one kills the other I think would be a pretty interesting move, but it still doesn't explain the word bodies. Because they say in episode one, they say bodies, not body. Multiple guess, yeah. So that almost means,

so maybe that's the degrasos. I mean, maybe they had, we're on a boat that sunk, I don't know. But the bodies is the one that's. threw me off. It was one body. I think it would be a lot easier for us to guess. Bodies, I don't know what to make of that. I just realized that Rocco, oh,

no, maybe he's backup at reception, but I was like, is Rocco down at the beach because he got demoted to the beach club? But, like, uh, Racco says multiple guests, which is why I don't think it's like Quentin and his guys, because like, they stayed at the hotel, but they weren't staying at the hotel anymore. Like, they weren't really guests anymore. You know what I mean? So, like,

I feel like it's one of our, it's the multiple guests thing makes me feel like it's like, you know, The people. Also, no, I'm really, really curious if Mike White, because once it becomes a murder, that is like, is every season a murder or is it every season when you get these many personalities and this much money and this much fantasy fulfillment all in one place? Someone has to die. Someone has to die, but is it someone has to die and it's a terrible act.

or someone has to die and it's a murder, you know, I think is, is interesting to contemplate. Well, last question for you. Yeah. Who do you, who are you most afraid is going to die? Who are you the most attached to? What would upset you the most? Honestly, Mia, I really like Mia. And I like that she's like, she has another beautiful, like, musical number in this episode.

And I'm just sort of like, keep doing that. I want this for you. I want, and like, honestly, what she did for Valentina seemed to, like very nice. So I'm very protective of Mia. How about you? It's so funny you said that. That was also my answer. Because I think that actress,

her name is Beatrice Grano. I think she's been really great. Yeah. And that's a weird part, right? She goes in. She's kind of like, you know, her friend is really the one who's doing it. She doesn't know whether she wants to get in that world or not. She likes playing the piano, but it's like,

a pipe dream. And we've watched her become really savvy over the course of five, six episodes, really comfortable with kind of who she is and really, really likable and talented. So, of course, it would make sense that she's the one that gets killed in the end. It would be like, no, not her. But yeah, I had the same answer. I thought Mia, Mia is probably my favorite character. I also really like Daphne, but we know she doesn't die. But I think the Daphne character is really good, really complex. I can't figure her out. I've everyone else mostly figured out at Daphne. I'm like, what's going on with this lady? She have a kid with her trainer? Is she like in some secret sex club on the side?

What are her angles? I just don't, how much does she know? I don't get her. And I think they've done a good job with her. She's my top. Like, if someone is going to snap and kill someone, Daphne's still at the top of mind. Well, you laid that out in the last pod. Yeah, talking about like dateline and, um, well, I mean, I guess that's, that's the other thing is like, if it is just an, if it is another accident, like the first season once, right? If it is another accident, Mike White has been playing with our expectations this whole time by, like, talking about Dateline or talking about that, like, local legend about, you know, the woman who cut the man's head off and that's what we see all those statues or the story Quentin tells about the

mafia basically, like killing that woman for her property. Like, they've been laying in all these, like, murder for money. Don't forget the weird statues, the weird shots of the statues and the paintings, and it's just very sinister. Yeah, so, like, he's been infecting our brain with all of this, but, like, you know, is that what we're watching, or are we just going to watch another tragic accident? I don't know, you know, so it's interesting. Can't wait to find out. Is it, after Mallory sees this episode, is it worth you and her just spouting conspiracies on each other

on a preview podcast next week? I don't feel like it is. I would love that. Yeah, I think we should book that. Just two of you. Go do your thing. Do your house of our. multiple theory about that thing.

Maybe we'll plan that for Thursday, Friday next week. And then for episode seven, which is Sunday night, a week from now, we don't know if we're getting screeners before that, if we're going to have to tape that Monday morning, something like that. Maybe we'll take that early Monday morning, whatever. But it'll depend on how much HBO trusts us. Do they want to give us the screeners? Do they trust us? They trust us with this IP.

We'll see. But either way, we'll – So you and Mal can do a little theory preview pod later in the week. And then Sunday, day or Monday, maybe the three of us, we got to bring her in for the finale, right? Oh, yeah. She'll be available. I think she'll make the time. But we'll do that for next week.

All right. This podcast was produced by Bobby Wagner. Joanna, it was great to see you as always. As always. Mother's Day has a way of sneaking up on you. But when it does, 1-800 flowers makes it easy to send mom something beautiful, thoughtful, and worthy of everything she does. Right now, with double blooms from

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