The Prestige TV Podcast - ‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 2 Deep Dive and Theories: The Incest Vibes Are High

Episode Date: February 26, 2025

Joanna Robinson and Rob Mahoney respond to some email theories (3:23) before analyzing the Ratliff family identity (17:13), a connection from Walton Goggins’s character to ‘King Lear’ (23:29), and the cracks beginning to show in the blond friend group (30:58). Plus, discussing a potential Russian connection to the hotel robbery (44:37), keeping an eye on the nice guy character, Gaitok (48:25), and talking about the strong incest vibes coming from the Ratliff kids (54:11). Email us! [e-mail] Subscribe to the Ringer TV YouTube channel here for full episodes of ‘The Prestige TV Podcast’ and so much more! Try Coffee mate Creamers Now: http://coffeemate.com Hosts: Joanna Robinson and Rob Mahoney Producers: Kai Grady and Donnie Beacham Jr. Video Supervision: John Richter Additional Production Support: Justin Sayles Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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So for the love of coffee, go try them now. Hello, welcome back to the PrestiHTV podcast feed. I'm Joanna Robinson. I'm Rob Mahoney. And we're here today to talk to you about listening to audiobooks while reading books at the same time. Rob, have we ever gotten as many emails about, you know, a subject matter? I think this massively dwarfs the chicken washing emails we've gotten from the Severance listenership this week. I am on the right side of history about that.

I feel very confident in my opinion and our listeners who emailed in to just to concur, really, just to stand with me against you. and other chicken washers out there? Like, look. I don't think it's against me. Okay, this is a severance. We're going to talk about this in the severance spot. I don't think it's against me. I think it's out of concern for me.

Yes. So I consider that people being on the right. You're right. They're with me. But the important thing, if you are out there listening to a book, audio book, as you read it, immersive reading, as we've been told, many people call this. We see you, we hear you.

We acknowledge everything that you're doing out there. Clearly, there is an incredible market for this that we did not realize, Joe. There's a lot of reasons why people do it. This is something we brought up in last, week's discussion of White Lotus We were noting that Piper was listening to an audiobook and reading at the same time. And Rob and I were asking,

hey, is this something people do? And we got a resounding, yes, this is something people do. A lot of it has to, some of it has to do with like neurodivergence or like, you know, ADHD and stuff like that. But there's a million different reasons to do it. And I should have known that the great multitaskers of the world, the podcast listeners out there would have this skill on lockdown. So thank you for all of your emails about that.

So that's what the whole pod's about today, right? We're just going to do an immersive reading exercise together. Yeah, get out your texts. We'll be starting on page 12. I guess ostensibly we are covering White Lotus season three episode two. That is a thing that we are technically here to do. Correct. We are here to talk to you about season three episode two of White Lotus.

And this is, I guess what we're calling kind of the deep dive, where Rob and I, a couple days after the immediate aftermath pods that Mallory, Bill and I are doing on Sunday nights where we're just sort of viking and talking about things we liked and Mallory's baffling an enduring crush on Patrick Schwarzenegger's character. All of that sort of stuff is in the mix. Then a couple days later, Rob and I get your emails. We look at Reddit. We read interviews with people. And we dig into some corners of the episode.

So, yeah, we got a lot of emails to, Rob, where can folks contact us for this episode? I'm so glad you asked. Joe, they can email us at monkey shootout at gmail.com or, as always, prestige TV at Spotify.com. But we all know the monkey shootout is coming. It has been foreshadowed. It has been foretold. It is monkeys are in every interstitial in this entire episode somehow.

The monkeys are here and they will be shooting out soon. So please email us at monkey shootout at gmail.com. We did get an email from our listener, Rachel, who asks, under the umbrella of the monkeys did it. Does it have to be a monkey literally picks up a gun? or can it be a monkey spooks, startles, attack someone, and the ensuing shootout is sort of incited by a monkey. In other words, if a monkey is involved in the shootout. A monkey related shooting.

Yeah. A monkey involved shooting. Do we still feel vindicated in the monkey theory? I'm going to say this. If a monkey is even in the background of the scene, we're going to claim victory on this. Okay. What about a monkey statue or a monkey mural? I think it's got to be a live monkey.

Plus someone with a gun turns a corner and sees a monkey statue and gets startled and shoot somebody thinking it's a real monkey. Then I will still claim victory. So, yeah, the gun doesn't have to be in the monkey's hands. I think the monkey needs to be driving the action in some way two shots being fired. And in that case, it will indeed be a monkey shootout by definition. Definitely. I completely agree. So double dipping on White Lotus is something we're doing on this feed.

And then Rob and I are also covering Severance, a tremendous show. those podcasts come out at end of the week. We've got a very special guest this week. I, because Rob was not here in studio, got to have a chat with Damon Lindelof, the co-creator of Lost and Watchmen and leftovers. And that conversation about Severance, about his severance theories,

about the lost references on severance, all that sort of stuff. So that episode will be up on YouTube in full. So you can watch a video of that. We recorded in studio. and then an edited version of that conversation will be on our episode seven severance podcast that's coming out at the end of the week. So you can hear bits and pieces of it on Friday with the severance podcast or you can

watch the YouTube version, which should be up in the middle of this week. So either today, Wednesday or tomorrow, Thursday. So fun, fun things in the prestige TV podcast feed. Okay. Monkeys. I have another thing to talk to you about. Oh, okay. Rob.

Why not? Let's take another lap. I mean, monkey shit out is one thing. And the monkey interstitials, as you pointed out, something that Mallory pointed out on the other podcast was that in season two, all the, a lot of the interstitials were those vases with the heads on them that were related to this like folklore story that really had nothing at the end of the day to do with Tanya's death in season two of White Lotus. So thematically was related, but was not someone was killed by a vase. So or a vase grabbed a gun or anything like that. So it could be that the monkeys are just here thematically. And if the monkeys are here thematically,

something we might want to keep in mind as we talk about spirituality and Buddhism, is this concept of the monkey mind that is part of Buddhist practice. And the monkey mind is, quote, a state of restlessness, capriciousness, and lack of control in one's thoughts, which is, you know, a smear on monkeys, you know, to be clear. But restlessness, capriciousness, and lack of control in one.

one's thoughts, is there a single character that you would most put under the monkey mind definition inside of this episode? Oh my God. I mean, are all three members of the blonde blob slash fancy cougars have very active minds, very active neuroses. As you bring up the monkey mind, Joe, it calls to mind something for me, which is in the captioning for White Lotus. You get a lot of these animal noises during the interstitials.

and sometimes I feel like the monkeys are described as chittering and sometimes they're described as chattering. Do you have a good handle on what separates a chitter from a chatter? I do. I do know what separates a chitter from a chatterer. Thank you so much for asking me. Chittering is a higher register, I would say, and a faster cadence than a chatter.

Makes sense. So maybe it's more chittering cicadas than it is chittering monkeys. Chittering is usually has to do with bugs, but like they chitter and they skitter, that sort of thing. But you're a dog guy. I'm a cat person. I will let you know that cats chitter when they're hunting. If like you see a cat sees a bird out the window, it'll make this like little like chitter noise on the hunt.

Oh, that's just very disconcerting. That's terrifying. I love cats. Okay. Monkey-minded people. I will say this. Tim Ratliff in his desperation. Yep.

is reading a bit monkey mind. The man needs a lore as a Pam so bad. Yeah, his brain is chittering and chattering at the same time. And it's a lot for him to handle. Okay. And then on the spirituality sort of blanket around this show, we got multiple emails from one listener. The first time he sent it through Max,

he sent through turquoise watch. He then updated it to Teal Watch. And once he updated it to Teal Watch, it's on our radar I was in because if folks have been listening to us podcast on this feed for a while

you might remember that when we did True Detective we were on hardcore teal watch so the reason that our listener Max is on teal not turquoise watch in terms of like let's see what were some of the examples

like a bathing suit or a suitcase or this that and the other he was just like this this color keeps coming up associated with a lot of characters and he pointed out that in several religions this color is believed to symbolize clarity and insight as it's a reminder of the sky and the scene which are vast and expansive representing the infinite nature of God's uppercase G or lowercase G if you prefer wisdom and creation. So I just I would like to fully induct all of us to Teal Watch 2025 White Lotus Edition.

We're out here. We're out here looking for Teal in every corner and as always kind of looking for which characters that Teal is associated with. I feel like it's also very important. That's exactly it. So sort of like, who's wearing the teal and does, does, or holding something as teal or wrapped as one of steel? And does that color at that time indicate some kind of clarity, I guess, would be the idea behind teal watch. Accent Corner. Rob, you got a lot of accent emails.

We did. Perhaps more than immersive reading emails. I didn't. Well, maybe. But more divisively, the immersive reading emails were consistently as requested on my part, explaining to us, why you might do this. The accent emails, we have people from the Carolinas feeling very

strongly on both sides of the divide, brother against brother. It's tough times out here. It's a lot. I will say this. The most compelling argument I've seen in the these accents are fine actually camp

is that Mike White gave an interview talking about how the Bravo series Southern Charm, which I've never seen, is an inspiration for the Rattling. Cliff family. And then we got several emails from people saying Tommy Ravenel specifically on that show, the look, the tan, the polos, the everything, the teeth is, is a close comp to Jason Isaac's character. And this guy was also a disgraced public figure. So, you know, whom amongst us has not been disgraced by something in their time. But yes, we are, we are

an audience divided on Accent Corner. I would just say I don't find it distracting. I don't think it's no. Like I don't think anything is offensively bad. I think some vowels here and there are squidgy, but like Jason Isaacs and Parker Posey are two of my favorite performers on the show and in general in life. And so it's not a complaint and I think it's been an interesting conversation from people.

Not a complaint simply commentary. But Joe, I'm curious of your expert opinion on this because as someone who has recently over committed to doing a Southern accent for a very long D&D campaign. I'm curious if that experience brought anything new out for you in terms of the work of not just trying to nail the accent a la Jason Isaacs, which he clearly is at some points, but maintaining it,

the overall marathon of maintaining the accent. Rob is referring to this thing we did on the Ringerverse Feed called Ringer Quest where we did a D&D campaign. We filmed that back in like November is when we did that. I did not know it was going to drop right in the middle of me critiquing professional actors in their southern accents. Let's be very clear. My southern accent is way worse than anything that Isaacson Posey have ever dreamed of. But I'm not a professional actor.

Ring request, a D&D campaign, if you want to hear my terrible southern accent. Thanks for bringing that up, Rob. I've enjoyed it a lot. Many beers. No. regularized beers in a mini fridge, people seem to think they're all included in

the resort experience. Could be. That spa is all a cart but your meals and your in-room treats are all inclusive. Sure. So eat all the melon you want to eat at breakfast while you're bizarrely snubbing someone

who you met in Austin at a birthday shower, you know? Love a snob. Last last thing you didn't think that was a snub oh no it was absolutely a snub i mean it was a squinty wall that she was giving in response to the oh hey girl energy like you can't do that um do you feel like you've encountered a squinty wall in your time uh growing up in the south is this a is this a normal thing that you've seen not that i've encountered no me neither but maybe in retrospect

there was one and i was just oblivious to it or i was thinking somebody was rude but in fact they were just blitzed out of their fucking gourd. Like, you know, I think there's many explanations for these things ultimately. So you feel like it's the lorazapam. It's like that is what's going on there. I feel like she is comfortably numb every second of every day. And also probably does not remember however many years ago this was because she was also then comfortably numb and has no grasp of what happened when or why or with whom.

I feel like, and I talked to Bill Mallory about this, but I really read to me as someone who doesn't remember it and is like slightly embarrassed that she doesn't remember. was covering it with rudeness. Okay. And then the staircase connection. We got a lot of emails about this, but I'll just read from one we got from Kara. The staircase is a, you know, true crime documentary and then fictional series about the Peterson family.

And the reason that I brought it up to Bill and Mallory before was there was part, one of the theories about what happened to the matrix of the Peterson family. family when she fell down a bunch of stairs is that an owl did it and so I was like an owl did it a monkey did it let's just all talk about that in the family but a lot of people have pointed out that um this the Peterson family lived in Durham North Carolina that you know they went to Duke blah blah and that they were they had um adopted daughters uh Margaret and Martha Ratliff the name Ratliff is associated with the Peterson family um And also that Patrick Schwarzenegger and Parker Posey were in the staircase.

So there's just like a lot of staircase connections going on. But this was Durham. This was like I think the most compelling comp is that this was like Durham's biggest true crime case that ever happened. And so the question is if we're talking about a North Carolina family based on Southern Charm or not, do you believe there's a version of this story where Tim Ratel? unraveling as he is under the pressure of this looming scandal, does something to himself or his family? Like, is he someone you have your eyeball on in that way? Maybe himself more than his family?

We got multiple emails of people worried about Tim Ratliff becoming a, and this is a direct quote from both family annihilator. A new phrase for me. I learned from our emails. The synchronicity of that concerned me a little bit. But I would say that's not usually what White Rattelph, Lotus is. It's not a show where I expect, like, I expect comic shootout with a bunch of criminals involving Jennifer Coolidge, sure. A man murdering his entire family before committing suicide,

I'm going to say that's not going to happen. Now, could he disappear? Could he, you know, this is a man who does not seem to have a lot of cards to play. Could he fake his own death? Could he kill himself? I think those things are in play. But I'm not, I don't think Tim Ratliff is going to gun down or poison his children. I just don't see that. Do you feel like Tim is going to go the Greg Gary route and change his name Tom and disappear? Just go the next White Lotus over?

But the problem with that is it doesn't seem like our guy is going to have a lot of disposable funds to do that with. So it's easier to go Gary when you can just live up the hill in splendor. Off Tanya's millions. That's the thing. Pop down to the restaurant for a quick bite. Maybe that's an argument against the a la carte. distinction is like he's coming here to eat at the restaurant as a non-guest.

I've never heard of that at like an all-inclusive situation. Yeah, that's a good point. You make a good point. I feel like you can either like charge it to the room or charge it to your card is sort of a thing. So like, this, I don't know. Okay, good question. Let's keep the emails going. If you were in the hotel industry, if you went to Cornell, let us know what the deal is.

Here's the sort of big bucket that I want to put like our character by character analysis. and is this question of identity. To go back to the immersive reading moment with Piper, what she was reading about this idea of identity as a prison as a concept inside of. I think that's, you know, if we're thinking about this show as

a potential for spiritual awakening for these ridiculous people, they're ridiculous people, but some of them might have a spiritual awakening of some kind. Rick certainly seems like, you know, to get, something question mark out of his therapy session inside of this episode so you can agree or disagree we can talk about that in a second but something that you know you mentioned what we've seen in other seasons of white lotus this idea of identity as a prison i feel like there's two outcomes from your state three outcomes from your stay white lotus one is you go home in a body bag um okay the other two are you break free from something you have a you have a transcendent experience that she radically changes your relationship your family of dynamics and like that.

And then the other one, and the one we've seen a couple times that is the hardest for me to watch is almost like a cementing of yourself inside of something tough. I think about Albion season two inside of that family where he was like the different one.

Different, like could break the sort of generational philandering thing that was happening in his family. But in the final sequence, in White Lotus season two, we see grandfather, father, son, all turn their head to ogle woman as she walks by and the implication is just like Albi's just going to be just like his dad

and his grandfather certainly. Rachel in season one, Rachel is played by Alexander Didaria and we're like leave Shane. He's the worst. There she is just cozyed up with Shane at the end of the season. So this idea of like can you break out of

this identity bucket that you've been put in or are you just going to sort of further nestle yourself into the role that's been designed for you. So how does this apply in your view when you're thinking about the rat lifts and you're thinking about like,

Lockland on the verge of trying to make a decision, Piper, sort of exploring something else, Saxon wanting to be just like his dad, but not knowing that this thing is coming for his dad. Like, how do you think of this idea of identity as it pertains to those characters? I mean, I think it's very notable for one that we don't really talk about Victoria in this way

Because she is almost consciously running from whatever sense of identity she has other than mother and part of this family and advice giver as far as like don't trust anyone you're not related to. And also everyone is trying to scam you at all times. Like her identity feels a little bit more muddled in a way that makes sense for that character. Everyone else is mostly reaching for something, grasping for something. Tim clearly like defines a lot of who he is based on this. kind of provider mentality as like a very clear patriarch figure. He enjoys being the guy who comes into the room, says, y'all have a good day. I'm going this way while you all do your treatments.

Job done here. Like he seems to drive a lot of satisfaction. I have provided this for you. He made the plan vis-a-vis Pam. And now everyone gets to be happy and do their thing. I'm killing it, Pam. And yeah, clearly Saxon wants to be his dad so bad or at least once daddy's approval so bad, to the point that they'll basically say anything to agree with him across a taste.

that's fine. We kind of know who that character is, but it's telling that Lachlan is the battleground for so many of these other characters. Like you can tell from his interactions with Piper that she wants him to be spiritual in the way that she is. Like she wants him to have these gratifying meditative experiences or praying experiences like when he's in the float tank. And he's clearly not there. And I find what's so interesting about Lachlan is that when he's with Saxon, he has more Piper energy in some ways. And when he's with Piper, he has more Saxon. And when he's with Piper, he has more Saxon energy in a lot of ways. And you feel that tug between them.

Yeah. It's such an interesting gender split inside of that family. You've got like the women, the UNC women and the Duke men and Lockhe's sort of like in the middle between the two. And you're right. Sort of like posturing more masculine by rigid definitions, posturing more masculine when he's with Piper and then more submissive feminine if you want to say it that way when he's around.

um saxon i did think uh we got an email that people thought it was interesting that uh piper and saxon and lachlan don't have any trace of an accent generationally to me that does not ping very strange they were like wouldn't they have the faintest whiff of like a tobacco road uh sort of accent um i don't know I don't know how in our constantly online monoculture state, how accents are being handed down regionally and generationally. I have a valley girl California accent, so I can't speak to that. But monkey shoot out at gmail.com.

Yeah, I think they do mute over time. My parents certainly have much more of a twang than I do. And for me, it comes out more on the yalls. It comes out more with like specific words and things like that. but I think that's pretty natural, especially for kids who have, like if you've been to, depending on where you grew up, if you're growing up in like more urban versus rural areas where those accents might be like a little more hardened. If you're going away for school versus staying close by for school, like all those things are variables. But I think it's pretty natural for kids to grow up with a much less significant version of the same accent, if not lose it altogether. I've never been around drunk, Rob. Does your accent come out when you have had some free beverages from this?

I don't think so. Okay. Yeah. How about when you go back home? A little bit. There's that kind of echoing effect that happens, absolutely. But ultimately, I think it just doesn't come out that much at all. I have a friend from Arkansas who you would not know is from Arkansas until he gets

more drinks in. It's wild. Okay. Let's talk about Rick. Our guy Rick. So we got an email from, I got, I got baited in the email and I could not resist taking the bait. Blake wrote in on Shakespeare Corner and he pointed out that Rick says nothing comes from nothing, which is a pretty famous and

important line from King Lear said by Lear to his daughter Cordelia when she refuses to lather him with praise like her other two sisters. Could this be a little clue to suggest that Jim Hollinger is in fact Rick's dad and that he potentially cut Rick out of some kind of inheritance after an act of quote disrespect, much like Lear did to Cordelia. Love of Shakespeare Corner. Thanks so much, Blake. To me, I will say inside of the session when Rick is talking to Amarita about his dad, that sounded genuine to me.

Whatever is true about Jim Hollinger, I believe that Rick thinks his dad is dead and not in the like Anakin Skywalker died so Darth Vader could live. From a certain point of view, Joe. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly. What do you think about Rick's dad and Jim Hollinger and what we've learned so far? I still think he's here for professional

reasons. Okay. You don't think this is personal vengeance. I don't think this is personal vengeance. I think a lot of that backstory is more my read on it to this point is more to illustrate Rick as sort of this empty vessel. This person who is devoid of identity who has tried to

take away every shred of identity that he ever thought he had. for maybe these reasons he lays out, which is that his mom overdose and his dad was murdered. I also don't know if we're supposed to take those things at 100% face value or not, or if that's just the guy who does not want to be in this meditative session, not wanting to talk. Yeah.

I just, I watched that, I watched that interaction through a few times. And to me, it rings as true to him, though I agree with you that he does not want to be there. I believe that he believes what he's saying. there whether or not he's saying it in an intentionally provocative way to try to get out of that session you know is its own thing but in terms of like that identity bigger identity question you think it's professional i i still tend to think it's personal vengeance of some kind and

the thing that i'm focused on with rick is he seems like he's on a like that chelsea is pulling him to do one thing which is like have fun work on yourself be a human being be more than nothing really. Be here now, be present. You have issues. Please work through them. Please be here with me. So that's like one force pulling on him. And then there's his other thing pulling on him. And, you know, from your point of view, it's professional. From my point of view, it's personal and vengeful. But either way, it feels like to me the Chelsea path is the is the better path. Is the right path? Yes. And it's up in the air to me at this point. whether Rick is going to be one of those characters where we are disappointed that he couldn't break out of either his professional gig is a hitman question. Is that what you're saying? Professional hitman? Hitman feels the most likely. But it also could be he just needs to meet this man for some sort of clandestine reason. Like it could be a delivery.

It could be information. I don't know exactly. It doesn't seem good, right? Whatever it is, it doesn't seem like, okay. I mean, look, I think Walton Goggins is a great hang. I think Hollinger would be so lucky. That's correct to chase him down to Bangkok. You just love him as an outlaw.

I understand. I really do understand. And I love him as a philosopher. And I'm glad we get this sequence with Amrita because, frankly, I don't think, like, Rick thinks so little of Chelsea in certain ways that he would never have this kind of conversation with her. I don't think about the, like, the, what he contains in his soul is not really what their relationship is at this stage. maybe someday it will be. Yeah. He does not like bear to her in that very specific way.

And I look, I think they are an incredible pair. And I think there is a push and pull on a chemical level that makes a lot of sense. And I think you nailed it in that she is really good for him in a lot of ways. Like she is pushing him out of his comfort zone. She is like calling him on his bullshit. And clearly he provides a kind of security for Chelsea that she needs. Like he gives her a comfort and a safety. even when she's like basically begging him to be held and protected, like there is a dynamic here that makes a lot of sense.

And one that I think is is so expertly deployed opposite Chloe and Greg, where as we are told many times in this episode, basically the same people. Young woman, grumpy older man. Yeah. The parallels are obvious. But Chloe hates Greg by every indication we have in the show. They have a purely transactional relationship where she has a sex worker, it seems of some kind, or at least really. Rick is very quick to point that out. Chelsea and Rick could not be more different in their way.

I think they are both benefiting from each other in some ways. Like Chelsea may not be on this kind of trip, if not for Rick. And Rick may benefit for whatever his purposes are, personal or professional, from having a partner to travel with for cover or otherwise. But they have an actual functional relationship. It's weird, but it kind of works in its way. There's genuine affection and connection there when she runs to him after the robbery, the connection that they have in bed,

like all of that stuff feels genuine. Like, there is affection there. There is a potential there for Rick to make a choice. It seems like to me. Yeah. And I don't know which way he's going to go. And can he, can he, can he,

the identity of Chelsea's boyfriend is much better to me than whatever else he's facing in terms of like, you know, a child of tragedy or all these other things that are hanging over him that truly did happen to him but can you escape whatever you know trap that is for yourself and choose something else yes i also think like i never would have in my very limited casting wisdom thought to put walton gagins opposite amy lew wood and say that is a pairing that should work as a couple who is traveling abroad yeah there is more charge in like a four-word exchange between them when she tells him he's so mysterious and he just says, I'm not, then basically like any supposedly steamy show on television,

now or in the recent past, like, and that's before they start the proper foreplay. Like there is just something between them that absolutely works in that way. And once you have that, you can sell a lot of the rest and you can understand the emotional beats And you can figure out who these people are to each other and what they can mean. But you're right. Like it terrifies me to hear you lay it out in the way of Rick as somebody who is going to probably have to make a choice at some point, specifically as far as his identity, when we just talked about all the White Lotus characters who just crystallize in their worst instincts by the end of the season. But some break out. Some do.

So it's like, so what's going to happen here? And the way I see it is like, you know, there's, do I go? It seems like there's a do I go to Bangkok and and pursue. Jim Hollinger there or do I stay here at the White Lotus with Chelsea? He's definitely going to Bangkok, right? Yep, I think so. Yeah. I'm worried for you, Rick.

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or Bill has started calling them just the fancies, if you prefer. The fancies is not. The fancies is not. Yeah, yeah, exactly. Along the blonde blob line, though, we got an email from, you already mentioned one Kara who emailed in, a different Kara emailed us in to point out that it's not often in TV that you get stories, that it's like one insulated storyline with people of the same gender, the same age bracket, the same hair color.

And it feels very telling in that way that they are allowed to be the blonde blob and written to be the blonde blob because usually in these exact scenarios one has to be brunette one has to wear glasses one has to be in a different like age set or have a dramatically different style these are three women who are styled pretty similarly at the end of the day and the fact that they are constructed as as a like one unit to be considered and also to pull apart from itself i think is where the fun comes from i think that's so true i in keros email she pointed out certain cases like the fact that Leighton Meester had to dye her hair brunette to be to play off the opposite Blake lively uh and and stuff like that so yeah that there's often a we can't have two blondes we can't have three brunettes something like how could we possibly tell them apart couldn't possibly do it okay so on the one hand that is true and I love that point I'm glad you brought that up on the other hand inside of their blonde blobbingness yeah I was thinking about this is you know you're slightly younger me there's there's this like Early era of internet.

Did you ever watch Teen Girl Squad? Is that ever something that came across your transom? Joe, those words mean nothing to me. What is Teen Girl Squad? It's like early internet like cartoon sketchery. But Teen Girl Squad, which is genuinely great. And I think about it all the time. If the intro would be like, the pretty one, the ugly one.

What's her face? So and so. And so this idea that like the blonde blob, despite their blobliness, have these set roles that perhaps they've played. Jacqueline was always the face is something that they talked about earlier, right? Like there are distinct roles inside of their friendships that they've always had. And what is challenged inside of this episode when Valentin does his thing, which is tell the women the same thing. What is that due to Jacqueline? Well, devastates her.

Nothing gets between friends like data, Joe. Like metrics. Like body fat percentage. So like Jacqueline having to consider that Lori could be compared to her. Yeah. Is as you said, devastating to Jacqueline. So these identities inside of their same demo, Jacqueline's power as the pretty one.

Yeah. The face is so important to her. and it is personally devastating to her to have that challenge. And it makes me think about like, when you think about Tim Ratliff or Jacqueline Lemon here, they're the power that protects them, I'm the rich provider. I'm the hot TV star.

Yeah. Also the provider who's paying for this trip for the most part. Exactly. It's so brittle. It's so fragile. And like what happens when it cracks or is exploded, you know? Let me tell you. We'll be cracking.

eminently within episodes if it isn't already. But you're absolutely right about Jacqueline. And I think it's tied too into her standing in the broader world, right? There's who she is in this friend group. And it feels increasingly as we learn more about her. Like this is a bit of a retreat. This is a bit of a circling the wagons for somebody who's going through a lot who has a lot of neuroses, who has this husband who she's obsessed with healthfully and there's definitely

nothing weird going on there at all. And she's definitely not insecure about the fact that he's 10 years younger than her. totally very, very, very hot. And so you see a lot, I feel like among the fancies, the fancy cougars, the blonde blob, whatever you prefer, of these women kind of speaking to their insecurities, both directly and indirectly. And for Jacqueline, it is a lot of, like, am I hot enough or good enough for this relationship that I'm in? Is one of the insecurity she's talking about.

But you can transpose it on her friends, too, where it's like, if she's not even hot enough to be the hottest in this group, how is she going to be hot enough to fend off? everyone who's making advances on her hot husband. Right. And I feel like in Kate, the insecurity that you hear is a lot more, like, it's played for last with the Parker Posey scene in terms of like the non-recognition, but she comes away from it. Like she seems genuinely a little bothered.

And her thought is, am I that forgettable? Am I boring? Am I that boring? And the answer might be yes. Like the most interesting thing this woman is to say is about beans, which we can circle back to if you like. But like that seems like where she is. She's trying to figure, like, she wants to be notable beyond more than just being like a rich guy's wife.

Yeah. There's also the question. I don't know the answer to it, but there's the question. I think we got some emails about this. I've seen floating around this idea of like new money versus old money. Oh, yeah. Like it's Kate New Money and Victoria is definitely old money. So there's just sort of like this.

And Jacqueline's new money too in her way. Hence why she's a prostitute. Yeah. I think you get this kind of really hammered home by the end when Tim is on the phone talking about the light to media money laundering that he seems to have done for only $10 million. It's like, just a drop. You barely made me any money.

Just 10,000. Versus, you know, like, even for someone like Jacqueline, $10 million is probably a lot of money. Yeah. Okay. So something I want to say about that breakfast scene. When Piper is doing her devastating, this is Disneyland for, you know, women from Malibu and their Lula Levin yoga pants and then the ladies walk by and then.

their Lulu lemons. That was the closest she's gotten to Sydney-Sweeney-era White Lotus so far. Just like, she has it in her, and I wonder if we're going to see more and more of it. Get them, Piper. Okay, so here's the thing. My best friend, Diana Helmuth, wrote a book called 50 Places to Practice Yoga before you die. She works on this 50 Places book franchise. And I

The the hard time she had in calling around You know investigating these like really cool places you can go to do yoga around the world A lot of them in Asia Southeast Asia etc Trying to find non-white women to talk to Because most of these retreats are run by white women Who are gone to find themselves in Asia And it you know my best friend a white woman But it was like driving her up the wall

she's like I don't want to keep talking to all these white women who have gone to India to find themselves. But it was like making me think about that. And she, you know, she eventually found them. It's a great book. But it was just like, it was just like the struggle was real in terms of how much white women have taken over this scene inside of Southeast Asia. And I was thinking about Jacqueline and Kate when I was thinking about that. Something our listener Joanna wrote it about, not me, another Joanna. she was like let's not put Lori in the shrinking violet bucket like she is a hard hitting successful

maybe did not get the latest promotion but successful lawyer in New York so at apparently a top firm so like we've been waiting for like what's the Carrie Coon explosion like whatever's going to come inside of the fracturing of this friend group or something like that let's not expect that Lori, the lawyer, is going to take it lying down. No. Right? Is that something that's on your radar? Well, and frankly, it was good to see the claws come out a little bit as far as her place

in this relationship that she can talk some shit to. She can gossip with the best of them. Like the dynamics shift, depending on which two women are in the room. Yeah. And we get some hints at a backstory as far as like, you know, the potential like pursuit of Valentin, for example, like, oh, this is Cancun all over again. Like, Lori's been out of you're getting after it, all right? Like she's lived a life.

She's had a pretty successful career, if not, as you said, in the way that she may have wanted as far as making a partner. But I love the developing relationship and the rounding out or I guess hardening edge of the triangle between these three women. The trust triangle, yeah. This is my mathematical proof, Joe. And please check my work here. Oh, okay. Kate will talk shit about Lori, but she kind of needs to be nudged to talk shit about Jacqueline. Like she feels like she's a little more hesitant to talk shit about Jacqueline.

And in some ways, maybe wants to be Jacqueline or have Jacqueline's face or whatever you prefer. Jacqueline will hear gossip about Lori. But honestly, mostly seems to pity her in her circumstances in ways where she doesn't want to pile on too much. Okay. Lori will talk shit about Jacqueline. And that's, I think, our new development in this episode, she's coming in hot. It just might take her like a bottle, bottle on half of Sauvignon Blancel. to get there. And once she does, she has a raft. Yeah, yeah.

What do you think Jacqueline and Lori will find to talk shit about Kate? Will it be the beans? Will it be like, oh, the bean conversation? Can you believe that about the beans? She brings the beans one more time. I'm going to need episode seven, Kate to just be eating a big old plate of beans. Like, we don't need to call it out, but we need. Forget the melon. It's, it's bean time. The real ones need to know. And we need to see it in action. But honestly, I wonder if we're going to get that. I wonder if this is the case where it is a triangle technically, but Kate is kind of the hinge point.

Okay. Because we're already told that Jacqueline and Lori haven't seen each other in four years, I think is what Jacqueline says. Like maybe they're just not as close. Maybe Kate's role in this friend group has always been that she's sort of the middle ground for both of them and the way that everything makes sense. So I honestly don't know if we're going to get that. but it would fit the monkey see no evil hear no evil theme because I thought it was kind of interesting that when their friends are gossiping about them

Lori sees her friends through the window but can't hear them Jacqueline hears her friends from downstairs but can't see them maybe we do get you know the the trifecta as far I don't even know what it would be at that point like are you speak your friends but are you are you writing bullshit about are you tech well then on their phones I guess at least we don't think they have their phones, but it's got to be some version of the written word. One thing that I love that Mike White has said over the course of three seasons of this show

is when people are like, hey, which of these characters do you most closely identify with? And he's like, I'm all of them. Yeah, that's the point. Is how Mike White thinks about these characters. So we got an email from listener Alex who was saying, was rewatching season one. You brought up our pal, Sydney, Sweeney. Alex pointed out that in season one Sydney, Sweeney and her friend are making up personas for all the guests

and they mentioned something about how Jennifer Coolidge's character is a rich woman waiting for her friends who just quote tolerate her because she pays for everything. Interesting how Mike White seated this even then. Curious is this inspired the blondies. Cute. Or if he has been plowing this all along, either way, just appreciate the attention of detail always.

So I do think there's always a version inside of White Lotus of the have and the have not inside of these an unbalanced of power. Like if you think of like Porsche in season two working for Tanya like the only reason

Porsche is there is because she's in Tanya's employee and stuff like that. Yes. If Mike White an incredibly successful and rich yet deeply insecure person is someone

who has gone around the world thinking hey are these people just hanging out with me because I'm rich because I'm successful because I'm famous and like Jacqueline Lemon

why are Kate and Lori there because they really care about Jacqueline are Kate and Lori there because it's an all-inclusive cool trip to Thailand with with their famous they can draft off the fame a bit of Jacqueline maybe a little of all of the above and this is what I love about this friend group is there is so much being critical of each other in the in the under the guise of care under the guys of like oh I'm so concerned about their well-being I'm so concerned about their life but they always double back to like oh but she's so great Oh, but she's so beautiful.

Yeah, yeah. On the one hand, that could be very superficial. I also think it can kind of be true of the people that you're closest with and like who have you have the longest lasting connections with is you can be critical of them and wonder what the hell they're doing, but also care about them. I don't know that that's the case here and maybe it's not. Maybe this is a long, a long lasting friendship that should have petered out years and years ago and these women are kind of holding on to. But I think there's something true in that or at least something true in the way. people try to act, which is they want to be close, even if they aren't. Yeah.

And I've definitely done that with friends of, you know, out of concern also veered into shit-talking territory. That is, I'm merely a human. I like to think I don't do it very much anymore, but definitely when I was younger, that was the thing that I did. I want to talk to you about the robbery. Yes. and our guy Valentin who is not just causing...

Our guy. He's not my guy. You're a guy. He is not my guy. I just want to say, Valentin, not my guy. Who is not only causing strife with the biometrics, but also it seems like is involved in the boutique robbery, right? A hundred percent.

What do you know about the Russian population in Thailand? Not enough. Can you take me on a jury? journey. I sure can. I read some articles about it. Because Mike White was talking in interviews about how when they spent time there, there were so many Russians. He felt like it would be weird to not include a Russian storyline. It would not genuinely reflect what's happening in Thailand right now to not include a Russian story line. So it was like news to me. What can you tell me? So there's a great time magazine article I think from last year about this quoting from that article, while many Western

nations have shut out Russian air travel in response to Vladimir Putin's full scale invasion of Ukraine. Thailand sees Russian arrivals as key to reviving its pandemic ravaged tourism industry. In October, Thai Prime Minister extended 90-day visas upon arrival for Russian passports, insisting in a February interview, we're not part of the Ukraine conflict. We're neutral. In 2023, Russians ranked top for tourist arrivals in Thailand from the outside of Asia with 1.4 million visitors. It's a way to avoid the draft. If you go to Thailand and just stay there, you can not get drafted into the one.

war. Wow. And so that's the thing that you can do. So it's like going to Canada for Americans during Vietnam. And then in Pouquet, the Laguna Beachfront complex of villas, ornamental lake, et cetera, an 18-hole golf course is now dubbed Little Moscow for the sheer influx of moneyed Russians who have just come to sort of shelter in Thailand. So that is a thing. We've got Valentin, but like what else is to come on the Russian storyline front? What do you want to say about, I don't know, this is a sort of thing that's happening in Thailand or the robbery or anything else pertaining to your guy Valentine?

I mean, certainly makes it all the more understandable why Sautala would point out, oh, he's Russian when they show up. Like how it would be useful from, you know, the perspective of working at a hotel to have a fluent Russian speaker, somebody to work with Russian guests. Like that makes all the sense in the world. world also would help us understand why these other two robbers might be potentially Russian. The fact that Valentin is so clearly involved to me, and this has been easily the funniest thing

as far as from a theory standpoint, the number of people who I have seen suggested as potentially behind the masks executing this robbery, let me tell you, Greg is not robbing this hotel. My guy's not spry. He is not a spry guy. That tells me you have never seen a man of Greg's age move. Like the hip mobility, he's not swiveling like that. Like, it's just not happening. I'm sorry. He's not moving in that way.

And so I think you can very easily go through the list of, like, people it could not be under any circumstances. Or people who narratively probably would not make sense. Okay. But then there's Valentin, who is stopping not just to distract Guy Tuck at the gate, but parking his bike underneath the gate itself and preventing it from closing as he is, soft pitching the idea of going to these fights together. I want to see if those tickets come through, by the way. He better at least deliver for our guy-guy talk.

The Mutai fights, I really am hoping, is part of the storyline in this show. You said Our Guy-Gai-Gy-Talk. Okay, I walked that one back, too. He's also not my guy. Last week, you were on Nice Guy Watch, Nice Guy Talk Watch. Where are you after this week? I mean, more, even more on that corner. I love that like this is I this is like role reversal for us because like we got a lot of emails

for people being like we love that Rob is an ally Rob is the best like Rob is in on this and I'm like I don't know I'm all in on guy talk I really like him his idea of a chill first date is like a marriage proposal like he's coming in way way way too hot they've known each other forever though his pitch is like your family likes me and I can maybe like hang a picture frame that's his pitch okay listen don't underestimate someone who can hang a picture frame. But also like, I agree that there are moves here that feel classically capital N, capital G, nice guy. Yep. I think it all depends on his reaction to Mook. And I don't feel like his reaction to her rejection was shitty. Do you know? No, no. Disappointed. Not yet.

But like she also has only to this point affirmed him with attention. Does that, okay, but does that mean that she's somewhat interested in him? What it requires for Guy Tak to not be in capital and capital G nice guy territory is reciprocity, right? The nice guy is pursuing without any measure of interest from the girl. In fact, turning a blind eye to her discomfort and disinterest. And while Mook is sort of like, hey man, we haven't even been. been on a date where are you proposing marriage to me she's not reading as uncomfortable to me when she's around him not uncomfortable there is a shy sweetness to them that i do enjoy watching i

disagree though that the reciprocity is sort of what what punctures the idea because you can be in a relationship with a guy and find out into the relationship with interest and with care and with love that they are actually a nice guy at heart and want to be controlling and want to kind of make these strictures around your life. I think the test is going to be when, you know, Hollinger's bodyguards come calling again, when someone else shows interest, when Mook veers away from nursing him and holding his ice pack, what happens? Like, what is left of our guy, guy talk? Sorry, your guy, guy talk. My guy. Because, yeah, right now his only move is basically marry me. And it feels intense. And yes, she is kind of laughing it off, does not seem entirely uncomfortable with his advances.

but I'm worried. Okay. I think it's good to keep an eye on Guy Talk or any nice guy that we meet capital and capital G. But I'm leaning because I feel like oftentimes, actually that's not true of season one. I was just thinking that there was like the front desk couple in season two that were like hotel staff that, you know, we're quite background but we're like kind of rooting for. I don't know.

Good to keep an eye on. on it. Our, my guy, Guy Talk is a hero for the moment, even though he didn't really do anything, but that's okay. Well, he took a pistol whip.

And ultimately, he got the most powerful medicine that there is, which is the sweet, sweet affection of the person that you're interested in. So he's, he's doing all right at this point. I want to call out our guy, our guy Fabian,

uh, who's the, who's the resort manager, who like, in comparison to the two resort managers that we've seen the previous seasons has a much smaller role. But we did get a couple emails for people pointing out that Christian Friedel who plays

Fabian, or Friedel, who plays Fabian, was a scary ass Nazi in the zone of interest, a tremendous film that came out two years ago. So is there something coming for Fabian like, as

we were waiting for Carrie Coon to have her big moment, should we be waiting for Fabian's big moment? And is it going to be performing as at dinner some night or something else. He could not be more tightly wound, so it would not surprise me to see him break at some point. The way he is just like a living, breathing anxiety spiral,

who eventually will talk himself into a fugue state if you let him go long enough, I love in this show. Love everything that Fabius bring to the table. Love the lip-syncing, Wistratella's performance. Oh, my God. I think he's going to be more comedic effect, moving some plot lines along. I don't see like a tragic fate becoming him,

but I am so happy he's here. He's so great. They're like the trying to tell someone not to clear the plate in the most inefficient way possible. I don't know how he got this job, but good for him. Do you think the biggest threat to, you mentioned the Hollinger bodyguards, but do you think the biggest threat to the Guy Talk,

MOOC romance could be if Porn Chide takes his shirt off in front of MOOC? You think MOOC wants some of those special treatments too? I'm just saying, no, no. Porchai, in my view, belongs to Belinda. But, like, that was, that was, Guy takes off his sure one time and now they are betrothed. There's energy there.

There's an, look, she is into the milk soap. She is into the salt scrub. Like, she's having a great time. And I support Belinda in her pursuits. Dawkins is also not skipping armed day. I'm just saying it's a great, it was a great episode. Everyone knew they were coming to Thailand and they were going to be taking their shirts off. They knew there were going to be some open, flowing garments.

And everyone, everyone is. Everyone's ready. What else do you want to talk about? Joanna, I don't know what's going on with the Ratliff kids. At this point, I'm very worried that somebody's something is going to end up in someone, and I don't know who or which or what. The incest vibes are just incredibly strong. Tough.

It's tough. Between everybody. Everybody's in each other's business. I really hate the way you just phrase that. but I can't find my it didn't need to disagree with you um it's not good if you had to you pick a parry oh boy where do you feel we're most likely to land I have a very bad feeling that there is a piper saxon situation happening actively happening I don't know if actively happening but like on the horizon something did

happened something is weird i want to i want to go through specifically when loki and piper are out in the ocean hammocks and he brings to her can we press pause can we press pause on somebody something is going to go into somebody else and something else and just admire the ocean hammocks you're a hammock guy rob you love a hamock i love a hammock i would love an ocean oh my god are you kidding what this is an ideal setup this is where you want to be i think the only issue with the ocean hammock and This is only a problem if you are an adult 20, 25 person like I am. It's hard to bring things out to the hammock if you're having to swim to it. Like you could have the waterproof bag with your book in it or your music in it,

like what, you know, your headphones, whatever it is that you want to bring. But look, very good for presence. Very good for tranquility. I would love to be in that hammock. What if it's like a waiting, you're waiting out scenario? You're waiting out to the thing and you're just holding your book. Definitely it works, but like Piper's going full. like freestyle. Like she's she's swimming

out there. So it's at least a little bit deep. She's, she's a talented individual. All right. So, um, if you guys are listening to this, it's great. And we love when you listen. If you're watching, I just want to let you know that I've been podcasting, how long have we been podcasting now? Over a year. Yeah. We've had a good run. I've never seen you make as

an uncomfortable a face as you just made earlier when you were describing the Ratliff siblings. So would you like to return to that? I just thought we would take a brief respite into ocean hammock corner. let's go back to incest corner, incest road with the rat lift kids.

It's not a corner you want to be in. It's not legal in many, many states. All of them, right? All of them? I hope. I almost am scared to know at this point. Okay. So, Lockie brings up to Piper. By the way, Saxon says that you've never had sex before.

Yeah. It's totally normal. What Sarah Catherine Hook is giving us as Piper in this seat is a whole ass crisis of something. And I don't know what it is or what it means. Like she gets to the what the fuck. She starts with like she has her eyes closed as Lockhe is saying this. Her eyes jud open. You can see the gears turning.

And she's figuring like, what do I possibly say to this? Her first response is to scoff and to kind of grasp at something and to project like she's above it. Like he doesn't know what I do. Right. That is her first response when she finally does respond. then she tries to kind of quiet down then she sits up

agitated asking how the hell would this even come up and that's where Locke tells her oh actually no is a compliment he was actually saying you're so hot so it's weird that you've never had sex before very normal cool family this is where you get the mouth what the fuck Piper gets frustrated and weirded out

she tries to settle down again and that's when Locke prompts her in a very Saxon way to ask well is it true and that's when she bolts off and so it's like there's so much happening here between them and so much specifically in what Piper is kind of carrying on her face

and internally in this scene. I would be shocked if there's not something behind it. And it may not be the kind of thing we ever get into, but it's hinting at a very rich sibling history and I pray not incestuous sibling history but at this point, God knows. We talked earlier about Rick

being a character that I see is like having a choice to make. Lachlan is even more identified as someone who has been like they have explicitly said it. I have a big choice to make between Duke and UNC, but between which side, which sibling am I more going to lie myself with, which side am I going to more identify with,

am I going to go with Piper, who I think we all agree, at least you and I agree, is the more palatable option here, right? I mean, Saxon is like if a shit-eating grin was a person. So, yeah, like the bar is pretty low. It feels like Schwarzenegger, who's, again, they're all doing a great job.

like Schwarzenegger has more teeth than a human usually does in his mouth. He's like a shark. Yeah, very sharky. Or is he going to lie himself with Saxon? And again, to go back to that whole, like, people often end up disappointing us on White Lotus. I am fully braced for Lockland to disappoint me. And, you know, just sort of embrace the, the, you got to build up your muscles and hunt chick. and live your life that way.

Success, pussy, et cetera. That's the life path for you. I mean, at minimum, Locke is a little freak who wants to stare at his brother's ass and ask her sister about her sexual escalates. Like, sexual escapades. Like, he's not great, the early signs.

I should not infantilize Lockhe. You're right. He's doing some stuff. All right. Can I say one thing in Saxon's defense? Just one quick note. Hold on, hold on. Yes.

You know, we laughed at the time about this when the rooming arrangements were being proposed. And he said something to the effect of like, you can't do that when you have fully grown genitals. It is what he says, yeah. Knowing everything that we think we know now or suspect now about the ratlifts, maybe he was right. These three people need three separate rooms and need their fully grown genitals very far away from each other. There's a very luxurious front room with many couches. Someone should be sleeping on the couch. In an ordinary family, I would say this is not an issue.

In this family, let's just separate sleeping quarters. Seems like a great idea. Sleeping nude with your brother in the room is deranged behavior. Just truly deranged behavior. I mean, but like enjoying yourself to porn in a room that is like barely insulated. is also deranged behavior. Nothing but deranged behavior from Saxon. Here's something we should say.

Let's run down. So we've got like to reiterate our threats, our potential threats. Okay. Monkeys. Always. Question mark. The Hollinger bodyguards have guns. So let me think about, you know, gun involved in the robbery, et cetera.

Sonami Watch. Where are you on tsunami watch? I mean, Lachlan's openly talking about a girl who thought a tsunami was coming at the end of this episode. That's a true story. Makes sense. Tracks certainly ominous as hell. She was like a 10-year-old girl who like saved a bunch of people because she studied tsunamis in her geography class. Actually, probably you're not taking a geography class in when you're 10, but maybe her class section on geography.

Okay. Or probably possibly geology. Okay. Monica, our list of Monica. 10-year-olds are taking geology classes? You might have a geology unit. Oh, sure. Here's an igneous.

I knew what a sedimentary rock. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Let's hammer these things out. Okay. Here's some talc. Yeah. Why not? I love a talc exploration.

Okay. The poisonous tree. The pong pong tree, which is what this tree is, which is related to oleander, as in white oleander, as in a movie about poisoning someone. The suicide tree is what is called. the suicide tree. Like genuinely, if you go to Wikipedia right now and look up this tree at the top, top lines, it's not like very deep.

And some people call it, no, no, right at the top. It's like, aka the suicide tree. But shout out to Big Tree for trying to get it rebranded as Pong Pong. Like, it's just a softer, softer, gentler situation. A real soft launch for the Pong Pong tree. But our listener, Monica pointed out, and I went back and rewatch it, and she's correct, that Lachlin was out of earshot and not paying attention during Pam's lecture about poison fruit.

him being out of earshot and also Saxon trying to get him in on the protein smoothie game that's a tough combination. What could go better in a smoothie? Yeah. Then poisonous fruit. We all love it. Then the suicide tree. Let me get some local delicacies.

The pong pong tree. So those are all just things to think about. Yeah. As we think about while there's anything else that we haven't talked about, I want to mention. We did have a listener, I will say a listener, Nisha wrote in about a complicated money laundering me, one MDB scandal and how it might relate to the ratlifts show hell scandal. Okay, here's something I'll say. Okay, this is,

I have a stick up my ass about this. The reaction I'm seeing to the three blondes, the blondes, is people saying like they're the worst. They're the worst. They would never want to be around them. They're the worst people. Rob thinks Rick is a contract killer whether or not we will find out Greg literally killed got Tanya killed in season two

indirectly but I'm still blaming him and Tim Ratliff is a fucking bamboozler on a massive scale that has surely impacted people who don't have disposable income to be impacted by whatever

grift that he has been doing so the the women who are kind of mean about each other behind each other's back. That's the worst you got. Guys, this 2025. You need to dream bigger. Like,

people are worse than that. I'm sorry. I just, it bothers. It's like the different standard that people are held to. And I'm just sort of like, Tim Ratlitt. Keep your eye on Tim Rattleth.

I am like feeling for him on a certain level because Jason Isaac is really good at what he does. And so his like panic is quite intriguing to me. But he is a fucking like shitty. rich criminal asshole, the kind of grifter that in 2025 we should be very much have our eye on. So, you know, just amazing. Here's where the blondies are not a monolith, though, because Kate seems like a tough hang. I'm going to be honest with you.

You want to hear about beans? I do want to hear about the beans, but I might be shooting my friends a look as she's talking about the beans in the way that she and Lori are shooting each other looks. Lori and Jacqueline seemed like pretty good company as far as these things going. If you are power ranking the current White Lotus guests

based on who I would want to be in a social situation with, I think Chelsea is probably number one with a bullet. Like she seems like a delight. Correct. Porn shy seems pretty cool. Like I would hang out with him.

Like I'll throw a MOOC into that category. Again, Guy talk, not my speed per se. The rat lists are generally out. It's a no. Piper maybe. Even her, I'm a little skeptical of love. I think we're going to see some different layers of Piper throughout this season. I don't disagree.

But once you get beyond that group, actually Belinda seems like a great hang too. Yeah. I think you're getting into Lori and Jacqueline territory pretty quickly. Lori, Mallory was telling me, she was just on a trip and it was like, she sent me a photo, like a vacation photo of her and her two other friends. They're all Burnett. And she said the Brown blob or the Burnett blob or something like that. And I was like, which one are you? And I was like, oh, wait, no, of course, you're Jacqueline Lemon.

You know, on camera star. She's like, I hope I'm Lori. I'm like, we all hope we're Lori. We all really hope we're Lori. But like, what are we going to do? But also, do we? Lori's also having a tough time. Lori just seems like she enjoys a Savignon Blanc as do I.

And so I support her and all of her numbers, you know? Sweet, sweet mercy. That is White Lotus. That is Mike White. That we get the name of Lori's dog. in this episode, so I do not have to endure the dumbest theory. With all due respect to anyone who is pushing it of White Lotus, the idea that season two's Portia was somehow Lori's daughter based on the fact that I guess they're both

blonde. That was as far as the evidence seemed to go. I think it's because both of them have wavy hair that gets a bit frazzled in humidity. It seems to be like the main connection. Anyway, they're the only two people who have that. Like, no one else purses out. Definitely not me. Um, listen, uh, Lori is not Porsche's mom.

No. I just think that that's so clear. They, they talk about her as like a young girl. There's, there's also this theory that this is a prequel season. I just think that that is like, Belinda recognizes Greg. Like that is just not. Yeah. But we should say doesn't put it all together yet. Like she seems to recognize him, but doesn't necessarily know who he is.

She's like, I know I know that guy, but from where that's weird. Right. So like, it's not a, this is not a prequel season. Lori is not Porsche's mom. If she is, we will apologize, but I just really don't think that's the case. But you know what? There's room for all kinds of wild theories because sometimes your wild theories correct. And sometimes it is a monkey with a gun.

So monkey shoot at Gmail.com is where you can reach us. Absolutely. Thanks to Justin Sales for his tireless work on this very crowded feed that we have going on right now. Thanks John Richter for his incredible work on the video front to CT today. He's helping out on the video front. And to Donnie Beechin, who is our great producer making sure we sound great on this episode. We will be back with Severance in just a few days. Rob, what a time for us to be podcasting about great shows.

And please do check out that Damon Lindelof conversation. We had a great time with Damon. And he did weigh in on the Lakers Maverick. situation and I did my best Rob Mahoney impression. Not a good one, but my best one. So there we go. NBA podcaster Joanna Robinson. We love to see it. We simply love to see it.

All right. We'll see you soon. Bye.