The Prestige TV Podcast - ‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 3 Deep Dive and Theories: Trumpism in the Friend Group

Episode Date: March 5, 2025

Joanna Robinson and Rob Mahoney react to the unraveling of Tim Ratliff (6:29), Trump playing a role in this season (20:33), and Walton Goggins finally turning on the con man charm (29:36). Plus, some "nice guy" talk about Gaitok (38:53) and, with the inclusion of Parker Posey following Jennifer Coolidge, which Christopher Guest character actor do we want to see in Season 4 (50:16)? Email us! [e-mail] Subscribe to the Ringer TV YouTube channel here for full episodes of ‘The Prestige TV Podcast’ and so much more! Try Coffee mate Creamers Now: http://coffeemate.com Hosts: Joanna Robinson and Rob Mahoney Producers: Kai Grady and Donnie Beacham Jr. Video Supervision: John Richter Additional Production Support: Justin Sayles Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

This episode is brought to by Whole Foods Market. Spring is here, so celebrate it with fresh, juicy, seasonal produce and some very tasty, limited time flavors. New Whole Foods, Market Peach, Apricot, Rose, Italian soda. Perfect for a picnic or brunch, as is their trending mango, Yuzu, chantilly cake. But if you're on the go, new 365 strawberry pretzels make a great sweet snack. That sounds delicious. Get savings with yellow sale sign store.

wide and everyday low prices on 365 brand items. Enjoy the fresh flavors of spring, save at Whole Foods Market. This episode of the Prestige TV podcast is brought to you by CoffeeMate. Coffee Mate has been searching the globe for flavors that pair perfectly with coffee. So when they heard that the new season of HBO's The White Lotus was set in Thailand, they were inspired to broop two new flavors, Thai ice coffee and pinia colada flavored creamers. They're available for a short time only. So for the love of coffee, go try them now. Hello, welcome back to the Preston News TV podcast feed. I'm Joanna Robinson. I'm Rob Mahoney.

We're here to talk about White Lotus, Season 3, Episode 3, The Meaning of Dreams. Rob, how are you doing? I'm doing great. I don't have any dreams of note to mark down as far as to parse their meaning. Do you have any dreams you want to pick apart today? Gosh, no. We've already been through Rob Mahoney Anxiety Dream Corner on a different pod. That's true. We've already talked about that. Do I have a recurring anxiety dream? Well, let me ask you this.

Saxon brings up, you know, the very primal idea of having nightmares about fire and snakes. I can't say I've ever had a nightmare about fire and snakes. Are you a snake dreamer? No, I'm not a snake dreamer, but what a fun thing that would to be. No, I don't,

I can't remember my dreams and I think that's a blessing. I think mostly my dreams are like awkward, socially anxious interactions. I think those are my usual nightmares. Nothing primal or elemental or anything like that. Do you know? Exactly. Yeah, you're approaching people you think may have murdered a woman you met several years ago

and they give you a blank stare wall in response. That's the kind of nightmare you have. But do you think Belinda knows that you're talking about Belinda and our guy, Greg Gary, not my guy, your guy, but like, do you think? Not my guy, nobody's guy. Do you think Chloe's guy, Greg Gary, do you think Belinda knows? about what happened to Tanya. Well, clearly not,

or else she would be having a more outsized response. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I feel like if I, if I, let me say this, if I'm Belinda and I know what happened to Tanya, I am not approaching Greg Gary. No. That's not happening.

Far, far away. The last thing you would want is to be on his radar at that point. Absolutely. Shout out to a couple of our listeners who wrote in to let us know that, you know, we talked about the voice cameo in episode two. The voice cameo in this episode, as the Ratliff lawyer is the podcaster Scott Galloway. He has a really charming anecdote on his own podcast about how Jason Isaacs came over to his

house to give him acting lessons. And he didn't know that it was Jason Isaacs or who Jason Isaacs was. It was just like this handsome man came to his house to give acting lessons. And then he found out it was Lucius Malfoy. But anyway, he got cast because the producers were a fan of him, a fan of his voice. then he did try took some swings at this and they're like oh no podcasters are not the same as actors and then they got him the jason isaic's acting boot camp package so i mean it seems quite lush imagine not knowing who jason is if he shows up at your front door that's that's a tough beat but

i've got acting coach to have scott's been busy doing knowing about a lot about a lot of other things we're we are available by the way for voice cameos if you need like a 911 one one dispatcher, a concerned lawyer, a panicking co-worker as the office is being rated by the FBI, like for all of your projects. I think I don't want to speak for you, Joe, but I think we would be interested. We would take the meeting. Do you have a theater kid background? No, of course not. Yeah, absolutely not. But yeah, that's, you are good at basketball and I am not. We all have our talents. You know, okay. Um, you, you, we already talked about the, dreams is the name of the episode we open with with victoria ratliff's dream i want to talk to you

about this concept of the collective unconscious which is what piper and vicky are talking about when they're talking about the dreams are mostly piper is talking about um any thoughts or feelings on the collection just just broadly speaking yeah uh pro if it exists ambiguous to me if it does but i'm open to the possibility this is like a a Carl Jung joint, a Jungian idea. And I have to say, Young really went off with this one.

Really knew what he was doing. He showed out and he showed up. And I love that for him. This idea of the collective unconscious is common to all human beings. He believe the collective unconscious is responsible for a number of deep-seated beliefs and instincts, such as spirituality, sexual behavior, and life and death. So it's more about the nature, but this say versus nurture but this idea that your nature is somehow passed down yeah through the

generations it's sort of imprinted on you um and i think that's really interesting to think about especially in terms of what we talked about last week in terms of the roles or the identities or the positions that people find themselves in and can they break out of them or can they not can piper be different from her family or is she doomed to just be rat liffian like the rest of her life what about these lessons that Vicky has to impart on them about what does or does not designate a trashy rich person? Yes. You know, like these are all, you know, important questions. Can you, can you correct your posture to break out of your people pleaser status?

Like, all of this idea is really rich inside of the Mike White universe. Well, there's so much posturing happening, especially among people of this kind of class. And I think you're right to point out Victoria's statement about trashy rich people versus non-trashy rich people. because not only in the collective unconscious sense is there's this like generational passing of humanity and understanding and shared experience, there's also like a pervasive broad humanity that we are all tapping into together collectively. And so this idea that we are drawing these very strict defining lines between us that, you know, Tim Ratliff couldn't possibly be the kind of person who takes drugs. He couldn't possibly be the kind of person who takes a nap because who would do such a thing.

And yet, yeah, and yet, it's just very important to so many of these people that they have. appear in the world in a very particular way. And that's, I would think, what gets in the way of your ability to tap into the collective unconscious if it's out there. I do want to just, we don't have like a ton of emails to get to this week, but I do want to skip to this one that you just mentioned Tim taking a Laraspan. La Raspan, Tim, maybe my new favorite TV character of all time. I'm a big fan.

Yeah. I can't wait to see where we go. I want to talk to him to you about his showering habits in a second. But Jackie, our listener Jackie wrote in, call me crazy. Tim Ratliff dry swallowing a pill is way more inhinged than Rick releasing a bunch of venomous snakes. I am an Australian though, so maybe a matter of perspective. Dry swallowing a pill? Would you do it from Mahoney? Would you have done not my preference? But I think it depends on the size of the pill.

There's something just really uncomfortable to me watching Tim to sort of snap his head back as he dry swallowed the pill. I don't know. Just like... For me, it was much more him putting. the pill on a hotel couch cushion and then putting it directly in his mouth. That was what stuck out to me about that sequence. Yeah. Tim Ratliff is making great use of the outdoor shower at the villa. But it's not a good sign if you're taking slow motion showers as far as your overall state of mind. I really agree. How do you feel about an outdoor shower from Mahoney? I mean, only as the application post pool or post ocean as like a general daily practice i don't i don't really i don't really see

it for myself feels too vulnerable to do you yeah yeah i'm open to some windows but i want a closed environment um okay any i really want to talk about piper ratliff actually uh sort of more than anyone else but what do what do what do what do you want to say about the rat lifts and i'll get my piper takes i mean starting with tim i i agree with you lazepam tim is a is a wonderful television invention. I enjoyed watching him go from basically like fully clenched mentally shredding his own brain with anxiety into absolutely blist out slash napped out. That was just a great transition point for the show. And I can't wait to see where it goes. I'm a little worried we're getting into like leaving Las Vegas territory with Tim where it's like he's seeing the end of the line.

He's starting to make some pretty dramatic moves. He wants the phones in the bag. Well, he didn't want to be cut off from the outside world, but he certainly wanted everyone else to now that his little white collar secret has escaped containment, right? It's no longer him gathering information. It's people calling in. There's agents at the office. What the fuck is happening? Everyone is panicking. Everyone is freaking out. And I will say the most tragic offshoot of that to me is him taking Saxon aside. And Saxon finally getting his sweet, sweet moment of daddy affirmation. And it is basically all so that he will shut up and put his phone in the back. It's just, it's a really tough look and a really tough moment for admittedly a contemptible character, but one who only wants one thing and it's daddy's approval.

Well, no, he wants to. Okay, sorry, he wants a couple of things. I want to step, step back. But he doesn't want the big dogs to respect him. He does. He does. You know, no one's a bigger dog in his mind than his dad. He's the biggest dog.

He is. Yeah, Tim, the unraveling that we're seeing here is sort of something I was really hoping for because, I was just talking to our pal Van Lathan about he's been speed binging White Lotus season one in season two because he's obsessed with season three and is like, I can't watch any more season three. I'm out. And I was like, go back and watch the previous seasons. So he has in the last like, I don't know, 48 hours or something. But he was talking to me yesterday about the great unraveling. He was like having a slow hang with season two. And then he was like, he called it like the great unraveling. And I think that that is something that is we know is so key to every season of White Lotus.

This is just like watching Armand unravel or watching, you know, whoever it might be Aubrey Plaza's character in season two if you want to, if you want to call that in unraveling. And I do. And so this Tim, eyeballing Tim from the start as the person who would be the funniest to watch unravel. And getting that so quickly in the season, I think it's only up from here, honestly, with with Larazepampton. A lot of promising possibility.

I just don't think we're going to get the tsunami, Joe. We're going to get the tsunami of the soul, right? We're going to get Tim Ratliff being the man standing in front of the wave at the end of the day, I think, is what might happen. Metaphorically. Of course, metaphorically speaking. But one of our listeners, Bree emailed in with an interesting thought that I had not considered, which is, what if what exposed Tim Ratliff's crimes in the first place was something like Saxon's incompetence at work, right? What if Saxon, our guy who is very Vincent Adolpon in his, the way he talks about his job? Like, I love work so much.

I love job. I love being this guy. Doesn't seem to know what he is doing for a living. I would imagine is not very good at it. Would not surprise me one bit if an email sent to the wrong place by Saxon ended up resulting in this kind of investigation or it ended up kind of moving some of the wheels in motion as far as how Tim ultimately got him. Yeah, I mean, that feels like the least of Saxon's potential crimes in this show, but I think it's definitely on the table for sure. Also, on the Larazepam front, one of our listeners, Chris wrote in, you know, because Vick says, Vicky says, they're not addictive. I just take them when I need them.

This is not true. This is deeply untrue about lauraspam, which is not, Chris wanted to let us know is not a sleeping pill, even though Tim is using them. to get his nap reps in. This is an anti-anxiety medication. This is sort of like a quick acting sort of brief window. Are you afraid of flying? Take this lorazepam as you like, you know, as you're taking off and you will make it through the flight. Yeah.

Which is perhaps why Tim is like housing them because the window is small. So how many pills does Victoria have left in her bottle? I have I have questions about that. And what's going to happen to her when she runs out, right? once Tim has consumed once he's popped every pill there is to pop I worry about Victoria at this point Yeah that'll be so interesting because like it's one thing to watch

Laura as a Pam Tim Like become more and more unhinged Sober. Sober Victoria. I can't even imagine her. No, who is she? I can't wait to find out. All right, so let's talk about Piper and one of our listeners, Laura pointed this out

And I think it's it's really worth ruminating on this idea of the, the Piper archetype that we've gotten a version of each season on this show. And she points out like Paula, who's Sydney, sweetie's friend in the first season. And she mentioned Harper, Aubrey Plaza's character in the second season. This person who's almost like a stand in for the audience who sort of like sees the hypocrisy, sees the shitty behavior, calls it out. You know, Piper has that great line about what,

the White Lotus actually is and you know right then the the Blom Blob come in the the fancies come in and their Lulu Lemon Yoga like you know Piper's Piper we've got a keen eye on everything but what usually happens in a season of White Lotus to those characters is that Mike White shows them like exposes them as sort of as fallible as as as vulnerable to the temptations of the of the White Lotus experience or to shitty behavior or anything like that. Which I would say is a critical part of why this show works the way it does. Like you can't just have the preachy person off to the side commenting on everyone. Like it's so much more interesting when those characters themselves can be co-opted,

are susceptible to why everyone is here in the first place. Yeah. And I don't feel like Mike White's treatment of them is that he's like punishing them for their behavior. But just showing that we all are in a very similar, you know, luxury. yacht if you want to look forward to next week's episode. So like what do you see coming for Piper who we got a little bit more information on when she went to go visit the monastery? Yeah. That was such an interesting sequence for her because she goes, you know, she is greeted by this very friendly monk with a MacBook, a monk book. She makes her appointment

and then just breezes on out. And like what my understanding from her for both of these sequences when she first goes to visit the temple and when she returns here and is like seems pretty deeply incurious honestly for somebody who wants to be potentially spending a year here in a program furthering her education deepening her spirituality like she makes her appointment and then she doesn't even bother to look around to talk to anyone else to even kind of like take in the scene it's like oh job done i'm up out of here it's also very it's very surface like so this idea it seems to be that piper wants to do a However long she's going to stay there, we don't know, but this is not what she has pitched to her parents as to why she's there.

So she wants to do a program where presumably she stays at the monastery for some period of time. And if it were me, I would want to see where are we sleeping at the monastery? Reasonable. What's their daily schedule like? What is all of that? And it is very, yes, I think white girl privileged to be like, I'm going to go to a monastery in Thailand. and everything is going to be better. And I'm going to be so enlightened.

And I don't know anything about the practicalities of what this actually is. No, definitely not. That sounds absolutely correct to me. She even kind of shoots a little glance to the tourists who are there. Yeah. In a way, it's like a tiny little throwaway moment. But to me is very aloof and like, aha. Like I am of this environment.

Like I will soon be a member of this place. And you are but a mere visitor despite the fact that I actually know nothing about what it means. be here and live here or practice this faith at all. Exciting times for Piper Ratlin. I'm sure everything will go perfectly well for her. Saxon mentions that they are invited on Greg Garry's boat. We'll talk about that a little bit more in a second for this, what he calls this full moon big holiday,

which is a huge holiday in Thailand. Every full moon they celebrate with this like massive beach party in the island that's won over from where the White Lotus is being filmed. And the description that I found was more than 12, more than 12 powerful sound systems turn the 800 meter beach into possibly the most popular open-air nightclub in the world once a month. Once a month is like a heavy investment for like, we're putting on the world's biggest beach rave,

but we're doing it every month. Um, any hopes or dreams for the, the full moon party. I mean, how can you, if you're Mike White and you're like, we're going to set a season in Thailand. And once a month they have the world's biggest beach rave on this island. How do you, especially since as we've heard over and over again that Mike White, the season came to Mike White in like a fever drug dream when he was in the hospital. Right. So how can you not say like, let's go to a Thai beach rave? Is this something you're excited for in a future episode of White Lotus?

Without a doubt. I mean, I'm excited for the yacht trip over there and all the exciting possibilities, especially as it seems like our groups are going to be intermingling a little bit in some potentially surprising ways. And we already get the developing love, maybe strong, lust triangle between Greg Gary, Chloe, and Saxon, who have now been officially formally introduced and maybe raising some eyebrows at each other over one of them being. a douche. Look, who am I to judge if someone has a type? You know, they're into what they're into. But all of these people are going to be in one space with

potentially as many rat lifts as want to come. I think Rick is assumingly going to be off in Bangkok, which is unfortunate, because I would love to see him get after it at the rave. I think the raving characters I am most excited about are those you would not anticipate ever ending up at a rave. So Victoria at a rave, let's fucking go, right? Like, honestly, Gary at a rave. I want to see what this guy is up to. Hyper at a rave.

Chelsea at a rave, I feel like I know exactly what that's like. And I love that for her. She was born in a rave. Life's a rave for Chelsea. Absolutely. Okay. To wrap up the Ratlifts as well as we can inside of their isolated storyline, Tim Ratliff, let's go back to Larazepampton.

We mentioned last week that we've gotten several emails about this concept of like family annihilator, which you and I both were like, ugh. Yeah. It did seem slightly more plausible this week. Does it? A little bit. I still don't think White Lillard. Lotus is that kind of show.

And like it's honestly, Mike White has seemed over the years so conflicted about the murder part of White Lotus that the idea of wiping out like half the cast in a mass murder doesn't seem like what he is interested in. But I am willing and able to be surprised, clearly. What about the idea of Larazepam Tim as the body in the water that Zion found? Whether or not that body in the water is dead, we actually don't know. It's true. Certainly floating as if dead, but not. confirmed dead necessarily. So could that be

Larazepam, Tim, having taken a stumble from the outdoor shower into the outdoor pond? I didn't even think about the outdoor shower, the falling risks of the outdoor shower while hopped up on Larazepam. Yeah. It's a great theory.

I think there's a very reasonable chance of that. Is Tim top of your list? Who's top of your list for like... Who the body is? Yeah. I think based on this, week, I'm going to say yes.

All right, Tim, I'm not rooting for you because you seem like you've done some shitty things. And in general, I don't, I don't root for rich people who have, who have embezzled money. But, you know, life is long. You didn't vote for Trump, though, did you? Are we really going to talk about Trump tonight? Let's talk about the fancies, the blonde blonde blonde. Let's, how we. Okay.

I want to ask you how you feel. I can't remember if Mal, Bill and I got into like the specifics of this. We talked about this a little bit. But like I'm really curious about Mike White's decision to like put Trump into. Yeah. This season. Because of course last season we got the voter versus nonvoter conversation in the in the two couples. And that was very like sort of like Trump not Trump coded for sure way.

but to put Trump's name in there, again, making this season not knowing how the election was going to pan out. How do you feel about that as a choice? It feels like it aligns with the show. I mean, this is a show that talks about privilege, the talks about class. Like, if you thought you were tuning into White Lotus to get away from the political sphere, I don't know what show you've been watching. And you are sadly mistaken, unfortunately. Like, this is a show that deals with the economic realities of these people and what they care about and don't care about, what they value and don't value.

and don't value. Putting the name Trump in there, to me, is just an extension of that. In this case, like a very sharp dividing wedge between these three women, one of whom is, you know, she's not a Republican, Joe. She isn't independent. Let's, let's be very honest about everything that's happening here. We really want to talk about Trump tonight. So, um, okay. The bless your heart magic that plays across Kate's face. Yeah. Unbelievable acting from Bid here. Eyes full squints. Oh my gosh. It's so good. No teeth. Very good stuff from Leslie Bibb.

Rob is a Texan. How do you feel about Texas being invoked in this in this particular way? Fair. That said. Kate has said that she's from Austin. I know. I think this is what someone would say if they are from the area more broadly. I'm going to guess it's more Lakeway B Cave. That's the kind of vibe that I'm getting from Kate's overall deal, which as we can infer is like country club husband. corporate high life. You know, she's, she's living a kind of privileged existence that is not demographically Austin, but is certainly adjacent to Austin. Like there's a lot of very white, very affluent, very conservative parts around the city proper.

You know, I have spent a lot of, I go to Austin a couple times every year. I love, but I don't, I've never lived in Austin. I'm a mere visitor. So I'm not like trying to make any, uh, broads, well, maybe I am. But anyway. Joe, go off. Say what you've got to say. I love Austin.

I love Austin. I will say I've had the most shocking things that have ever been said to me by a lifthriver have been said to me by a lift driver in Austin. Can you expand, please? Just racial stuff. I think I look like I might be receptive to someone saying things that I am not receptive to. How does that make you feel that that's the energy that you put out into the world? Feels great.

It's like how people would never offer me drugs because they think I look like a dark. You know, it's just like, it's just my life. So the only of it the official podcast brought up that I thought was really interesting is the way that they transitioned inside of this conversation from talking about religion. Yeah. To talking about Trumpism. Yes. And this idea of Trumpism as a kind of religion, a kind of belief system. Yep.

In a way that previous political movements in America have not quite felt as. as, you know, Colt, like, is one way to describe it or however you want to describe it. But, like, this idea of, like, the figure, the figure that we follow sort of idea of Trumpism. And another thing that I thought was really interesting that Gia Tolentino brought up on the official podcast is this idea of, like, when we first meet the blonde blob, as they are described by Mike White, Lori says it's like looking in a mirror, which is of course is something that like Jacqueline doesn't love to hear from Lori by the way. But like how how Mike White really wanted to make it seem like these women are not that different. And in so many ways they aren't that different.

Even though we've we've dialed in on certain things that they either share or don't share, we've got two women who are moms versus a woman who is not a mom or we've got two women who have invested a lot of time and money in like plastic surgery and stuff like that versus a woman who maybe hasn't. Women who have focused on the career versus not all this sort of stuff. So like these various little differences, what's the biggest

wedge you can drive? Is it Trumpism? Is it something else? But then at the end of the day, how actually similar they are and how interesting. I think that is inside of this sort of Trump conversation of like Lori and Jacqueline are like, oh no.

He is so different from us. We did not realize how different she is. And then the question is actually how different is a white privileged woman who votes for Trump versus a white privileged woman who doesn't vote for Trump inside of this context? I think that's the question the show is asking. I think it is too. I think it's it's so powerful in that way because you're right. These are three women who have a lot of things in common at the same time are in quite different places, but they are paired off in all of those fascinating ways. I hadn't even thought about the career, like the careerist aspect and how Jacqueline and Lori might have that potentially in common. And we, we get to see them spend some quality time

together if at Kate's expense for a lot of this episode. Yeah. But like, it's cool to see all of these different ways in which it is naturally two versus one in every possible direction within this friend group. And that only works if it feels balanced, if you're going to create this dynamic. Like, you could write the show around having a very clear in-group out-out group. But it's more interesting if it's sort of a revolving door. And one of them is always feeling a little bit left out of whatever's happening. I think what I have my eye on most inside of this group in terms of things I'm worried about or suspicious about. Yeah.

Is Jacqueline has had a few speeches now that seem very much like I'm a girl's girl kind of speech, like talking about the patriarchal nature of religion or just that and the other thing. A lot of masculine feminine in this episode, like very dirty. called out. Yeah. I don't trust the Jacqueline Lemon is a girl's girl at the end of the day. I do not think that that is her energy at all. And I am worried about the way in which she's pushing Valentin on this story.

Yep. And I'm worried about how that is all going to shake out at the end of the day. It feels like a real swooping in situation for Jacqueline potentially. I liked what you mentioned Joe on the Sunday pot about the flex of Jacqueline here. of it's not just pushing Lori, but let me help you set this up. Let me make this happen for you. Not dissimilar from what Saxon is doing with Lockie, right? Like all hands on deck.

Like, I'm going to hook you up. I'm going to show you how to do this. And the dynamic between the two women is a little different, but it is very much like pushing in a way that feels like projecting, in a way that feels like Jacqueline really wants to sleep with Valentin. And you can imagine a scenario where maybe Lori does get some confidence. Maybe she does end up pursuing Valentin. and Jacqueline kind of interjects herself into that dynamic at a time where she may not be as welcome as she is right now.

100%. But in all of this, Lori is feeling like a little tentative at the beginning of this episode about that very idea. She talks about how, you know what, he probably wouldn't even want it anyway, Joe. He probably wouldn't be interested in someone like me. Girl, Carrie Coon. Meanwhile, in real life. I don't know if you caught this last week, but Carrie Coon went on the Marin podcast and was talking about, her relationship with the legend Tracy Letts, their marriage,

there was a bit of a misunderstanding where listeners thought she had nodded in the direction of like, actually maybe we have an open marriage, maybe of an open relationship. Listener, let me tell you, the internet fucking exploded. So, look, Carrie Coon herself getting lots of interests from parties, she is not even remotely interested in reciprocating. Our girl Lori is just going through it, though. She doesn't seem to understand her appeal to the world. Are you looking for support in your weight management journey? Zepbound terseptitide may be able to help.

Zepbound is a prescription medicine used with a reduced calorie diet and increased physical activity to help adults with obesity. Or some adults with overweight who also have weight-related medical problems to lose excess body weight and keep the weight off. Zepbound is approved as a 2.5, 5, 7.5, 10, 12.5 or 15 milligram injection. Zep bound contains terseptit. and should not be used with other gerzebitide containing products or any GLP1 receptor agonist medicines. It is not known if Zepbound is safe and effective for use in children. Don't share needles or pens or reuse needles. Don't take if allergic to it.

Or if you or someone in your family had medullary thyroid cancer, or if you've had multiple endocrine neoplasia syndrome type 2. Tell your doctor if you get a lump or swelling in your neck. Stop Zepbound and call your doctor if you have severe stomach pain or a serious allergic reaction. Severe side effects may include inflamed pancreas or gallbladder problems. Tell your doctor if you experience vision changes before scheduled procedures with anesthesia if you're nursing, pregnant, plan to be, or taking birth control pills. Taking Zepbound with a sulfonal urea or insulin may cause low blood sugar.

Side effects include nausea, diarrhea, and vomiting which can cause dehydration and worsen kidney problems. Talk to your doctor. Call 1-800-545-99 or visit Zepbounce. This episode is brought to you by Borris Head. What if we told you the taste of deep fried turkey is now available at your local deli? Well, Borishead just did that. Bursting with flavor, perfectly seasoned with that indulgent taste that usually means planning your whole day around it.

Presenting the friar's turkey breast only from Borishead. The backyard tradition now available behind the counter. Visit your local deli today. Discover the craftmanship behind every bite. Borishead committed to craft since 1905. This episode is brought to you by Netflix's remarkably bright creatures. What if a Pacific octopus held the key to a mystery that could heal your heart? Well, that's Tova's reality.

An elderly widow working at an aquarium. Tova forms an unlikely friendship with the cramudgeonly Marcellus, whose remarkable intelligence leads her to a life-changing discovery. Watch remarkably bright creatures with your remarkable moms this Mother's Day weekend. Only on Netflix May 8th. will you tell me Rob, given that, like, tell me a little bit more about the way in which the internet exploded when they thought Carrie Coon might be on the table for them. She had to issue a follow-up statement in which she said that her relationship, she described it as open-minded, describing their kind of more modern sensibilities across the board, not open, and of note for our White Lotus purposes, in that statement,

did the speak, no, hear, no, see no evil monkey emojis all lined up? interesting is it good gorilla marketing is a good monkey marketing oh nice i got to carey knows how to play social media i got to say it's true i i love her walt and guggins i already said on the pot with bill and mal how excited i was for grifter guggins to enter the chat here uh tell me tell me how you felt for rick to step out of the doom and gloom into the con man persona that we are so used to seeing walton guggins how did that do that do for you personally brought a honey.

It brought an incredible light to my life to see Gagin's in charm remote again. And this is relatively muted

by Gagin's standards. I'm actually starting to believe the Rick has a perpetual migraine commentary and that it's

maybe not just an excuse to get out of these conversations. Because he always seems very burdened by something,

very burdened by clearly his upbringing, I'm sure, some level of constant anxiety. Like my guy needs to smoke

so fucking bad in this episode that he has to go on a whole ass odysy to get some weed. Yeah.

So I understand where he's coming from, but he can turn it on when he needs to turn it on. And it's certainly enough to kind of start putting his plan in motion here with Siretala as far as how do we get to Bangkok? How do we? Sritzala. Sorry. Tough scenes for Fabian in this episode as well. You think you know somebody. You think you know how to pronounce their name.

Turns out you've been mistaken for a very long time. But yeah, Rick is getting where he needs to go, ultimately. And as far as Chelsea's part of that, I will say. probably knows more than she's letting on and is more aware of what is happening and I think just kind of like letting everything roll off her back and allowing the universe to play out as it does. But she seems too perceptive to be oblivious to the fact

that Rick is weird and shady and is like doing all these random little jobs all the time. He's doing something. Something, you know, Walton Gog is namely would have been doing a lot of interviews around this episode. This seems to be the like, HBO is like, this is the, a Rick and Chelsea episode. I guess because they go to the snake show,

et cetera. And so they've been talking a lot about like some of the background of Rick and Chelsea. Gaggins has said that they've been together for like three years. You know, Amy Liu has said she genuinely believes they're actually soulmates. And that there is this idea that their relationship has not always been this, that this is a very different phase of Rick's life. Yeah. That he is having, I think the way that Gagin's,

but it was like a midlife crisis. And, you know, so, so the idea that, that Chelsea's like, come on, what are you doing, step out of it. Let's have fun is not just like her sort of beating her head against a wall, like that there is a version of Rick that she has traveled with before. Yes. That has been very different from the Rick that she's experiencing at the White Lotus here. And so I like knowing that because I'm just like, girl, what are we doing here?

But if this is like an unusual moment in the life of a partner who has been matching her energy, if not quite exactly her level of energy, like matching her. There are like nuclear power plants that cannot produce that much energy. Yeah, yeah. But look, there's plenty in this for her, right? Like she gets to be at this nice resort. She gets to experience this kind of life and enjoy all the privileges of it. Like it is interesting to hear that, though, that maybe at one point in time they had an arrangement.

and now it seems like they have a relationship, right? Like her using soulmate, her talking about being his life partner, right? That is a maybe overstating what their relationship is from Rick's perspective, but I think it's indicative of a certain level of seriousness as far as what they are to each other. I think it's what Chelsea has always wanted from him, which is just sort of like, I see you, you need me. I'm going to be that for you. But something that Amy Lou Wood said on the official podcast that like really kind of blew my mind,

She was like, she keeps accusing Rick of being secretive and walled off. You know, all this stuff is focused on Rick and what he's hiding. She's like, but we actually know so much about Rick and we don't know anything about Chelsea. That's true. She's just like she has sort of successfully hidden her life behind this like very bubbly outgoing, not persona because I do think that's actually who she is, but just sort of like the way she moves to the world. she's asking other people about themselves and she's got this insatiable curiosity

which means she does never have to talk about herself which is really interesting kind of a different breed of people pleaser from Locky. There's like the version where you try to mediate conflict or step out of it in the way he does and she is a de-escalator in a totally different way like she can bring people together she can talk them down she can make Rick perk up in spots here and there in a way that no one else can

bless Chelsea and her presence on the show. It's wonderful every single time. And in very good spirits for someone who just got bitten by a fucking liberated cobra. And then she made it to dinner. Yeah. I mean, no problem. If it were me, I would simply not be leaving the room.

Nope. The dinner would be coming to me. Bill very, very, I think, correctly identified me as someone who seems like they should know things about astrology. You're someone who seems like you should know things about astrology and also someone who

looks like they would be receptive to a lift driver's rants. We contain multitudes, Rob Mahoney. We truly do. None of it's true. Do you know anything about astrology? Rob Mahoney? I imagine I don't look like somebody who would know something about astrology. So maybe you'll surprise us.

But sometimes our preconceptions are correct. And I, in fact, do not. Not my area of expertise. What is your sign? Cancer. Cancer. I don't know. I'm going to say that like that means something, but I just not.

You just say something vague. and ominous and all go along with it. A water sign, emotional. I don't know the specifics of what it means to be a cancer, but I'm sure our listeners can let us know. We didn't mention up top. Please do email us about anything going on with White Lotus, prestige TV at Spotify.com

or more importantly, monkey shootout at gmail.com. Thanks so much for mentioning that. Speaking of emails we got and monkey shootouts, we had a couple emails about Cita La's outfit at breakfast that she's wearing. It's this like it's this sort of tan button down

sort of loose fitting thing with this like black what looks to be almost like an ink spot or some people said they thought it looked like a large bullet hole or one of our listeners Dave pointed out to me rightly so that I would know about this and I do in pirate culture of black spot means you're marked for death. You receive the black spot.

It means death is coming for you. I'm glad you could bring the pirate expertise. You may have missed the mark on astrology, but... No racism rants. No. A pirate? I do have it. And yeah.

So the black spot on Sita La, would that be a satisfying death for you this season? Potentially. Yeah? I think it depends on the way that she kind of weaves into the story of these other characters, right? if she is just sort of the person who owns the hotel and vaguely interacts and sometimes reforms and then dies, that's not super interesting. But if strange things happen in Bangkok, if she becomes even more intertwined with the fancies, even more intertwined with Rick in whatever game he's playing here. And Rick, as he's kind of, kind of gearing up to talk to her in the first

place, there's so much like Rick Snake stuff happening in this episode overall. But he's very, like, predatory in terms of the way he's almost like stalking her to her table. like kind of judging the scene, waiting for his moment. And I don't know how to interpret that within the context of whether she dies or not, but certainly as far as the game he's playing, it does make sense.

That was really interesting when they were at the snake show, among other things. First of all, would never go to a snake show. Absolutely not. No circumstances. Absolutely not.

But the guy running the snake show who is like a local guy who runs snake shows. I mean, he's a fucking pro. He's great. Good information, great delivery. knows his way around a cobra. Like I would trust those guys with my life.

I just don't want to go to the snake show. Absolutely not. He mentions that the Python can kill a big animal. And we mentioned, I think we mentioned this before, this idea that in some of the opening credit images, we've seen sort of a smaller animal taking on a predator. I think specifically I would say in like the Chelsea,

the Emily Wood Chelsea title card. So like this idea that we've had these predators, if you want to say Rick at breakfast or Saxon in the pool or, you know, Tim Ratliff in life or, you know, Gary doing whatever it is he's doing. Yeah, Jacqueline Lemon on the on the hunt for Valentin, whatever it is. But are we not paying enough attention to, you know, the smaller threats who could take something on? Something worth thinking about speaking smaller threats. time for our weekly

nice Guy Talk check in with with Rob Mahoney where are you on Guy talk I just want to read a list of what Guy Talk was up to this episode

Okay tries to parlay getting pistol whipped in the head into a bodyguard job okay he gets no indication whatsoever

that Suita La is interested in him being her bodyguard no affirmation whatever like whatsoever but that does not stop him from flagging down Muk as she's talking with her friends and walking with

her friends to give her this non-update about his life. Very important to him that she knows all about it. Hollinger's bodyguards then come to him and ask him to please chill. In fact, maybe you were closer to losing your job than getting promoted to being a bodyguard. That is not the character of that conversation.

How would you describe it? They come to bully him. Little Turkey wants to be a rooster. I'm going to say some people. Look. Some people deserve to be bullied sometimes, Joe. This guy is... I hate your anti-guide guy talk agenda. I hate it.

He is way too big for his britches right now when all that he did was fail in his job. Like, the stance that he should maybe be fired for this, I actually think is pretty reasonable, right? Like, he had one job and it's don't let cars zoom in and out of here, and he did both. Well, yes. Listen, I'm not saying he deserved a promotion.

I don't think he should be a Hollinger bodyguard because I You'd be very bad at it. I don't, I think he'd be bad at it. I don't want that for him. But I, I just, okay, we got an email from our listener, Hank. And I think it's, it's a, it's a good perspective to have whether or not you're right. I actually don't know if you're going to be right at the end of the day. And I'm going to look like an asshole.

I mean, I have no idea. This girl can't even hang out with her friends without getting cornered by this guy. Oh my God. She, whatever. No, I, I want to interrogate a little bit because I think a lot of people. because I think a lot of people interpret Mook's reactions to Guy Talk in which she is very smiley and I think

generally friendly as her being interested in his advances. She has expressed no such interest at any point to anything he has said. It has all been a polite smile, a nod, I will see you later, a very friendly exchange. She's being polite

to him and he is going way hard all the time in a way that to me spells trouble. Okay. You might be right. and I will look like an asshole. And that's a reality I'm willing to accept. I happen to believe that the MOOC and Guy Talk story is very sweet. And I think there's a way in which Mike White is actually like kind of a romantic in addition to me and all these other things.

Obviously, we're rooting for Chelsea and Rick to figure it out. But our listener Hank run in just to sort of put some, Hank who says he's from sort of a similarly like his family's, from a similarly like non-urban small Southeast Asian village environment. He said, where everyone is locally employed, service worker can tend to not be a farmer or hard laborer. The still pervasive historical context of parents approving matches and stable income being quite enough for satisfactory marriage shouldn't be discounted as just quote, nice guy vibes. Whether or not MOOC is looking for an exotic baddie a la Season 2's Portia is separate from this context, it could simply be Mike White's own creative liberty and I dare say personal injection.

into an otherwise ho-hum but stable lifestyle. Just giving a perspective as someone who's in central roots are part of that world. So this idea that like the conversation that Mook and Guy Suck had at lunch in a previous episode where he was like talking about his mom and they've known each other forever. Her brothers, all that stuff. Yeah. And it's like on the one hand from our sort of 2025 American perspective we're like, is this the move? But, you know, perhaps in the environment that they live in, that is the move. you know so but he he made that pitch and i would not say she jumped at it i don't think she

jumped at it i just don't think she said hard no they might have the like look if both of us are single in 20 years let's figure this thing out kind of arrangement but i just i don't see this going well for guy talk okay um we also have to leave uh an offering of bananas at a shrine and i thought that was very cool the foreheaded god uh which is called the air won Shwine, which has nothing to do with really expensive movies that you can get in L.A. Okay. Belinda and Porchai. Yes. Speaking of love stories to believe in. How are you feeling about this? I mean, it's lovely. Belinda had herself a day. Yeah. You know, the Gary business aside, you know, she gets a great treatment. She gets shown around the grounds. She gets to spend some

quality time with Porchai being like held tenderly in a pool. Like, what is the going rate for that? Or is that kind of an off-menu thing? Priceless, honestly. I'm just saying it seems nice, I would do it. Yeah. If Porchai would volunteer at my expense to hold me tenderly in a pool and help me kind of levitate and float, that sounds like a lovely afternoon. Bliss. And then he like sort of, you know, has this awkward little goodbye with her.

Porchai's had too much, aka like one drink. Too much for him. And then Belinda hears something in her villa. Is that what we were meant to believe? Not sees something, right? Is she hears something? Yeah. Could you kind of identify what you think she was reacting to?

Because it's hard to tell sometimes amid an amazing score. Like, I love the score of White Lotus. And we get kind of like calls of the wild in like the monkey like sounds of the jungle sense and also some like calls of the wild and every other conceivable sense happening in that score. So it's a very loud moaning. Very loud moaning happening, you know, through yoga during some of these scenes where characters are alone and kind of steaming about each other in various ways. So I don't quite know what she's identifying.

It sounds like maybe kind of like a creaking door, like a step on wood. Like I couldn't quite identify it. I know. I was, I kept going back to her. I was like, am I supposed to see something out the window? Is there a shadow? And I think it's just a noise. And I don't know what that noise is.

You know, one has to worry that it's Greg, Gary, up to no good. Or a monkey with a gun. Or a monkey with a gun You don't know It could be anything Or a snake Okay how do you feel about Chekhov's toilet snake

Being introduced into this episode As a potential thing that could kill you This is a very primal fear that I have had I have not had nightmares about this But it's one of those things where you read that news story Or like in my case It was on the local news or something When I was like eight years old

And it gets wedged in your brain Yeah And then what are you to do about toilet snakes you're defenceless. I used to read a lot of Dave Barry columns, and he wrote one about alligators, baby alligators coming up out of the sewer. What?

Like in Florida. Are they coming out of gutters or where are they coming from? I could not tell you, and perhaps he made them up, but that, yes, I will say I haven't had dreams about them, but I have had thoughts about toilet gaiters. It might be something that is untrue, but it's something that Dave Barry wrote about that I believe. How did you feel Joe about Rick as someone who believes very deeply in the freedom of snakes?

You know, just a liberator at the end of the day. I think this could not quite possibly clear as a metaphor for him feeling like he's in a cage and needs to break out. We have people have been noting this snake motif because there was first the snake, like first the snake choker that Chelsea was looking at in the boutique when, uh, during the smashing. grab. I would think we have to see again, right? It was so pointedly on camera that it's like we will see it on someone and that'll give us a tip as to who may have committed the robbery. I would think.

Chloe, do not put that snake choker on even if you were part of the robbery. Okay. So there's the snake choker and then of course there is the snake that literally bites her inside this episode. Something that Amy Lou Wood said in an interview is she was like, basically Chelsea's the kind of person who goes to her lives and sees snakes and just, brace them without any care of the worry of the danger that they might present she's just like oh you're a snake i want to hug you never mind your poisonous thing Chelsea you cannot fix that cobra

you cannot fix him but can she fix Rick fix Rick uh can I already to fix Rick you know like what are we going to no please sorry I didn't interrupt no no go ahead uh I do wonder this about Rick, though, because you're right about the metaphor, which is very clear on the surface, him in the cage, the snakes in the cage, him feeling restrained in that way. But as he's kind of talking it out with Chelsea, there's a lot of discussion about snakes being inherently evil, right? And you get this bit from Rick about, well, even evil things shouldn't be treated like shit because it only makes them more evil. And as a reflection of people treating him a certain way because of what he admits are the bad things that he's done, we don't really know what those are yet. Yeah. Understandable.

putting it in context and understanding his worldview as it applies to whatever he's after with Hollinger is a little bit more complicated because we have every indication, Joe, that you were correct, that Rick is trying to get some kind of revenge. Satisfaction. Some kind of satisfaction, as he says. A lot of signs pointing directly to the idea that Hollinger probably murdered his father or was involved in some way. And he's looking for satisfaction. But in that case, is Hollinger not also a snake?

Is he not also someone who is not inherently evil and like shouldn't be, shouldn't be met with purely evil in response? It really strikes me as, um, satisfaction, by the way, as a lot of people put it out is like iconic like dual language, like I demand satisfaction. Like I demand a dual. Um, I thought you meant dual language, but you mean dual like dual language. Like this was a dog. Yes.

Dual. I thought you were talking about the other kinds of satisfaction that Chelsea is, is hooking him up with. Oh, there you go. um also true but um but i think that rick i i just really fundamentally feel like rick is someone who is at a crossroads and at on one branch of the road is chelsea and on the other branch of the road is jim hollinger bangkokack satisfaction and one is a good choice and one is the bad choice and i genuinely don't know based on previous seasons of white lotus what choice rick is

going to right i'm rooting for him to take the chelsea branch of the road um But I've rooted for so many characters in White Lotus and they have disappointed me. You can't do it. I don't know. This is not the show for it. The bit of foreshadowing I am most concerned with at this point is not a dead body. It's not Chelsea almost dying several times in this episode. It's her holding up a tank that says you break it, you buy it with a broken heart on it and saying, should I buy this?

It just does not seem like things are going to go well for her at the end of the day. And I hope Rick, Snake or Not, make some kind of choice that makes sense for both of them. I just, I don't know. I'm very worried about everyone, and that's exactly where we should be. Episode 3 of White Lotus. Okay, to wrap up, we got this fun prompt from our listener, Sean, which may or may not be tangentially related to an upcoming episode of the Rewashables who can say. But Sean says between Jennifer Coolidge and Parker Posey, it seems like Might White really excels at dipping into the Christopher guest mockumentary talent pool,

which two Christopher guest stars would you like to see in season four one hotel staff and one guest and just for people who are listening in case you don't know the great filmmaker Christopher guest he made things like waiting for guffman a mighty win best in show this is final tap um and uh for your consideration and mask us a couple other things so um and he has a stable of actors that he likes to use Jennifer cool being a repeat offender, Parker Posey as well. Parker Posey in waiting for Guffman is one of my favorite things I've ever seen. She would have pre-White Lotus if you told me and you gave me this prompt and you told me the general construction of the show. Parker Posey would be my first round pick. So dreams really do come true. They do.

Jennifer Coolidge, sneaky star, obviously. Tanya being crucial to all three seasons of White Lotus. Double Emmy Award winner Jennifer Coolidge. So Rob Mahoney. of the classic Christopher guest stable who are you picking to check in at the White Lotus and who are you picking to work at the White Lotus? I'm going to say we might have to step out of time a little bit

just because some of the cast of these movies are getting quite up there and so it would limit them to basically being like elderly grandparental figures popping into these stories which would also be fine and I would be open to. To me the guest I would love Fred Willard on this show as sort of like an ecstatic, overly friendly in everyone's business kind of guest in a way that I thought we don't get often enough, right? We have a lot of rich people who kind of want to be in their little pods and not enough of them who want aggressively to be friends with everyone.

And I would love him in a context like this. Except for Kate who was like, remember we were at that. But she doesn't even want to be friends. She just wants to make the social connection and get the capital and then go back to her table. Don't you remember me? I talk about beans a lot. Is that not interesting to you? Can you imagine the bean talk at that baby shower? It was off the charts. She's talking about heritage beans.

She's a lot to say. Okay. So you've got Fred Willard as a guest. Who do you have working at the White Lotus? Our old friend and recent friend, Joe, Bob Balaban, feels like he would be great to work the staff at the White Lotus. I always picked Bob Balaband, but I was really hoping you would pick Bob. How can you not?

He just, he reads as neurotic and exacting so easily that the idea of a bunch of rich privileged guest winding him up is not a stretch of the imagination. I have chosen for my guest, Michael McKean. Yes. Of, you know, Better Call Saul and other fame, obviously. I just think he would do a really good job as like a disgruntled guest at the White Lotus. He's often quite disgruntled, honestly. Yeah, Patriarch of the family comically disgruntled.

Yes. giving real Chuck vibes from Better Call Selle. And then John Michael Higgins as a hotel manager. I love John Michael Higgins. I think he's a really stealth, like lethal performer in these Christopher guest movies. And also he's done a lot of great voice acting work. You might know him from Legges of Cora, among other things. And I just think as like a hotel manager who was like so good at putting on the like smarmy front.

while actively hating you, I think he would be absolutely killer at that. So, neither of us went for Eugene Levy or Catherine O'Hara, a couple obvious picks, Jane Lynch, anything like that. I feel like Eugene Levin and Catherine O'Hara have already done like crass rich person

pretty recently. And so I'm... And also, I'm good. Hotel management quite recently. Very true. Like, we've seen it, admittedly, in a slightly different flavor, but let's branch it out a little bit. I agree.

Okay, if you have any thoughts about Christopher guest regular, who should show up in White Lotus. I'd love to hear it. Monkey Shootout at Gmail.com or prestige TV and Spotify.com. Anything else you want to say about this episode or White Lus in general before we go Ramahoney? I had just had a bit of

a feeling with Chloe who's played by Charlotte Labon as far as like she was registering in my brain is very familiar and I couldn't put a finger on why. And in this episode it finally kind of clicked for me that she has such a Winona writer thing going on. Just like kind of a

resemblance in a way. Very different energies, very different kind of places in terms of like this is not a one known apart, but there's some kind of similarity there that's grabbing me. She's been reminding me of Chris Ritter a lot. Oh, yes. Not energy wise, but looks wise for sure. What do we think of her and of Chloe and Saxon? We wouldn't really remark upon their budding friendship. I hear you're a douche. Isn't that what she's said? I hear you're a douche. But she's into it, you know? Is she into it or is he a mark? I can't

She's into something. She's into the idea of it. Yeah. He definitely looks wealthy and that is something that she seems interested in. So love that for her. I don't know. Are you rooting for those two crazy kids? Going to Saxon? I cannot bring myself to root for them, but I will be watching with great curiosity where their relationship goes. Great. Okay. So that does it for season three, episode three of the White Lotus. Robin and I'll be back at the end of the week to talk more severance. Exciting. We should. note that Bill Amel and I are also covering White Lotus immediately after the episode ends on Sunday nights. You can watch all of this stuff. One note on that. You guys mentioned in the last Sunday pod vis-a-vis guy talk. You know, I take this with great consideration. I've thought about it. I've talked to my agents. I will not be hosting the creep radar podcast, despite the fact that it was so graciously offered to me. That's- You haven't seen the art we've created for again. I have not, but also who simply has the time. You know, there are so many creeps.

There are only so many hours in the day. I could not be bothered. You are but one, Rob. Seriously. Okay. Well, we'll let Bill know that's your formal, a polite pest. Yes, let him down gently, please. Okay.

So you watch all of those, including Rob's new show. What is it? Creep detector. Creep radar. All because I am empirically, increasingly right about Guy Talk. That should qualify me for. for the job, but I don't want it. On the Ringer TV channel on YouTube or on Spotify, you know, you just open the thing

and there, it's us talking. So that is what is going on. Also, we hear you. We will be back to the pit. We cannot tell you exactly when, but we will be back. And thank you to Donnie Beecham for this episode, to John Richter, who was like literally breaking his back to put out all this video content for you guys to see TA. for being the best and helping out this morning and uh just in sales always the guy uh we'll see you soon

bye