The Prestige TV Podcast - ‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 5: Broke or Brokenhearted … or Worse

Episode Date: March 17, 2025

Bill, Jo, and Mal hit the dance floor to recap the fifth episode of ‘The White Lotus’ Season 3. They discuss the surprising arrival of an exciting guest star, the ongoing uncertainty of which characters are in the most danger, and Jaclyn’s steamy moment with the Russians (1:24). Along the way, they talk about whether or not Fabian has ulterior motives, as well as the shocking sequence between Saxon and Lochy (35:57). Later, they close with a handful of predictions (01:05:15). Email us! [e-mail] Subscribe to the Ringer TV YouTube channel here for full episodes of ‘The Prestige TV Podcast’ and so much more! Try Coffee mate Creamers Now: http://coffeemate.com Hosts: Bill Simmons, Joanna Robinson, and Mallory Rubin Producers: Kai Grady and Donnie Beacham Jr. Video Supervision: John Richter Additional Production Support: Justin Sayles Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

This episode of the Prestige TV podcast is brought to you by Coffee Mate. Coffee Mate has been searching the globe for flavors that pair perfectly with coffee. So when they heard that the new season of HBO's The White Lotus was set in Thailand, they were inspired to broop two new flavors, Thai ice coffee and pinia colada flavored creamers. They're available for a short time only. So for the love of coffee, go try them now. The Prestige TV podcast is done. Brought to you by the Ringer Podcast Network.

You can find it in video form on Spotify. You can find it on Ringer-Dash TV on YouTube as well. This is our fifth one. We're past the halfway point. Joanna Rubiner here. You can listen to them on House of Bar as well. But more importantly, you can listen to them right now. And not only are going to break down in episode five, we're going to, we have answers

for the prosthetic, possibly maybe not penis in episode four. More penis talk. your husband requested. He had some commentary on the last episode. What was his text? A lot of dick talk. A lot of dick talk. More dick talk is next.

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risk and may not be suitable for all investors. Manage your activity with our consumer protection tool. Restrictions apply. See terms at banduel.com slash predict slash bonus dash offer dash herms. All right. Episode five, best episode of the season. Yes? Thumbs up.

Just sensational stuff. A roller coaster ride features quite possibly the best scene in the history of the show from a holy shit we're doing this standpoint. I thought you were going to say in the history of television. Is that how you feel about the San Rockwell's again? I thought he feels about it. Big takeaways. My number one is Sam Rockwell legend.

Coming in hot. He's missed four episodes. Flying in, Thailand, go see his old friend, Rick, Bangkok, and a hotel. Yep. They're just catching up. So what have you been up to? Well, I've been sober for 10 months. And then we are off.

And it's a whole monologue. It's impeccably acted. Yeah. Gagons is perfect. The audience is marrying Gagons. It's just like what is happening right now? And it goes for like, I don't know, four minutes. Five minutes.

Five minutes. And I think it's in the running for best scene in the history of the show. How did it make you feel, you know, you have often been known to say sex is a poetic act? It's a metaphor. What was it like to see yourself on television in this way? It was finally somebody tapping into my inner monologues at all times. Yeah. The thing is, you know, once you've had sex with thousands of women.

What's next? Now you have to think like the woman. You have to sit down and ask yourself, what is desire? Yeah, what is desire? What was the best moment of Sam Rockwell's career up until this episode? I mean, he's an Oscar winner. He was not in for Oscars two years in a row, right? My personal favorite would just be Moon, which is... Moon is incredible.

Also, Box of Moonlight, which is like a really early Sam Rockwell that I really, really unhinged San Rockwell. I guess as the house of our duo, we would have to say Justin Hammer. One of the genuine bright spots. Also Galaxy Quest. Yeah. Incredible. Galaxy Quest. Yeah. He was one of those hot young actor. Watch out for this guy. This guy, you're going to be hearing from this dude. And then had this too. And it never quite happened, but then it happened in a totally different, better way, which is he's like beloved. But I wouldn't say he's not like an A plus Lister. No. He has a supporting actor Oscar. Mike White once again mining the supporting actor field for...

The egos on Wiki and just looks at the supporting categories. He's like, oh, this guy. Who's next? Yeah, I think this is a perfect casting because you can definitely, like Sam Rockwell and Mongoggins feel like they're just pals. And we mentioned before that Sam Rockwell, that Leslie Bib is his partner. So it's just like couples that film in Thailand together stay together, question mark? I don't know. What a fun family excursion for them.

Camamale tea and pajamas at the pool party, you know? Correct. Well, we'll dive into Sam later when we get there in the recap part. I bet. Holy shit. It just feels like the Emmy is like there's just no way. I don't know. We don't know if he's coming back.

I don't know how many guest actor episodes. I think even if he's in the rest of the season, he can go for the guest actor, which is the easier one to get and what he should go for. It definitely seems like he's coming back because Rick asks him to keep the next night free. I think if I had a guest. Role play. I don't know. I would say he's in like two, three, but he's not coming back to the White Lotus with them.

Like he's like this is the character that stays in Bangkok. So if Rick's coming back to the White Lotus, I don't think he's coming with them. So I feel like we're going to see him in episode six when Rick executes his con or attacks to and confronts Hollinger. And he plays the direct. He gets to play the director. He plays the director and that's it. And then Rick goes back and finds Chelsea in whatever state that she is in after everything that happened on the guy. Really rarely on TV anymore.

do have a scene out of nowhere where you're just completely captivated. I think it's harder and hard to pull off because there's so much TV. We've seen so many variations of the same thing. Like I remember that you never watched Sopranos yet, but like when Carmela and Tony actually had their fight when she confronted him. And for four minutes, you're just frozen. Oh my God, what's happening? It just doesn't, lost had a couple great ones.

I mean, the best one ever when Jack with the beard, we have to go back. And that was like, that was another one where you're like, I'm not going to put the same Rockwell monologue on like that kind of level, but it's pretty close. But it's up there. No, I mean, and also just visually a very, very cool shot. I was just talking to our Palisian Fantasy in the hall about like the visuals of White Lotus this season. I think this episode in particular.

Did he mention anything about color grading? He didn't, but, you know, I could tell that he wanted to. No, but like all of the color, the neons, the like flashing lights in the full moon party. and the pool party. I don't know what their light system was at the pool party, but it looked amazing. But in that scene, in the Gagins Rockwell scene,

there's like this wide shot where they're all sort of like doubled exposure on top of each other. On the mirror. Yeah. That was really cool again. That was awesome. Yeah. Did you know the second you? Because you had both like.

I knew he was coming. I just didn't know how. But we didn't know. And like before that, though, we had talked earlier in the season, someone will show up in the middle of the season. There will be that little bit of garnish that you didn't know. And we knew because of two prior seasons of White Lotus to expect something, but we had no idea what shape it would take inside of this season.

And then when we had the Rick phone call, we're like, who could that be? But the second that you saw him, like when Gaggins goes down to the lobby and it's Sam Rockwell, right away, do you know that you're in for the night of your life? We're for a ride. Because Sam Rockwell is not just going to Bangkok to mail in an episode of White Lotus. To be like, here's your gun, bye. Like, that's not what this is. Another checkoff's gun has entered the chat.

Yeah, yeah. And a really nice leather duffel. Yeah. I don't know if Joanna knows this, but I used to be a writer. How are the fingers? The fingers still were? Fingers, barely. Used to be a writer, but I love myself a long,

well-written, well-active monologue. Yeah. It's still one of my favorites. Like, this reminded me a little. There's this really weird late 90s movie called Your Friends and Neighbors. Yeah, yeah. With Ben Stowe or Jason Patrick. Jason Patrick has this crazy monologue about having sex with

somebody in high school. And it's like five minutes long. And it was the same kind of thing. He's telling it to Ben Sower. I won't spoil it. But he goes through this whole thing. And Ben Stower is just just like frozen. Like can't believe what's happening and goes through. But it doesn't, it's really hard to pull off. Yeah. I will say we can get to this later if we want to. But when he was like, I looked great. I was like, have we ever seen Sam Rockwell in drag before? And I couldn't find anything. But Walton Goggins, of course, very famously, was in drag for his appearance on Sons of Anarchy, played this great character, Venus Van Dam.

It looked amazing, actually. And I was just like, Sam, I would like you to put your money where your mouth is. We have three episodes last. I would like to see the evidence. So, we'll get to Sam later, but he was the number one big takeaway. I have three more. Okay. I feel like everyone on the show could potentially die now. I'm not crossing off one.

person. Can I float a theory by you? Yeah. Well, Rob and I were talking about this about in previous seasons of White Lotus with Armand and Tanya, we never have a character who dies who has like strong emotional attachments to other characters because you don't want to end the White Lotus season on like a grieving family. That's not something they've ever done before.

Interesting. You've never had anyone at the airport montage at the end like actively majorly grieving. So will he do something different this season? Maybe. But, like, that's, if the rat lift, any of the rat lifts died, if Rick or Chelsea died, that would be such a, like, a bummer note to end a season that is usually sort of like tragic comic. So when the first two seasons ended, the first one, Jake Lacey's in the airport. Yeah. And Shane is there and Rachel comes back to him.

And the second one is they're running in the water because there's a dead body, which is near the end of the wheel. Yeah, yeah. I'm thinking, like, what they gave away in the thing. Yeah, Daphne is in the ocean. This one. This one, it's mid-shooting. Right. So we don't know how much is left.

That's why I feel like everybody's in the table. So you get hit by a stray bullet. You think everyone dies at the end of the season? Or one person. But I'm just not, even like Piper, I wouldn't rule out. You just never know. There was that, like, very ominous cut to Piper. It was so weird.

She's meditating a lot of her brothers are having a... That's what made me think of it. It was such a weird cut to her. Yeah. Yeah, but was it weird? I think, you know, what's interesting, and this is ultimately the sign of a really well-conceived and structured and executed season, is that I think you're both right. Like, it feels five-eighths of the way through that everybody could be involved as an impetus in what happens and potentially die or be harmed in some way, hurt in some way. And it also, because like all of those possibilities feel like they've been appropriately set up.

And then also, like, at the end of the day, probably the damage will be contained to a few people, even if it is a shootout that is caused by someone getting spooked by a monkey or a lizard. Though I think what you're saying does, like, still make, we've probably talked about this the most throughout the season. Like, the Guy Talk corner of the story or the Valentine, the Valentin corner of the story, the most right for, like, the contained damage. If a Russian dies or Greg Garry? Or Greg, great. That's the other thing. And that's like increasingly,

to bring Gary slash Greg, Greg, Greg, Gary back. I was thinking about this watching this episode. Like, sometimes with White Lotus, I don't mean this as a insult. I actually mean this as a compliment. It actually is like the thing that you think it's going to be. Right? 100%.

And that's part of what's interesting about it. It's not really about the twist or the shock. Like throughout season two, I mean, throughout season one, we're watching Armand spiral. And we're watching Shane and Armand on a collision course. And then throughout season two, the number of moments where there was some reason to parse whether Tanya was headed towards some doom or Greg was the cowboy or this and that's like it all was pointing toward the place it went. Yeah, but you're making an old school sports mistake.

You're taking a very small sample size and projecting. We've only had two other seasons. He might just zag and be like, I'm taking out your favorite character this time. So he could truly surprise us by doing something actually distinct from what our expectation now is. or maybe that is part of the commentary of the show. This was the first episode where I was like, it's going to be Piper. He's setting us up. She's found, she's the only one that has found the right level of religious.

Piper will be meditating free from her family bullshit. And getting shot by a stray bullet. I disagree with both of you. I think Piper is going to decide she wants to have a privilege. She's going to fall back in with her family. That's what happens on White Lodish. She doesn't want to be a boo. Is it?

That's not always what happens on White Lotus. Quinn left. He ran away at the airport and he went and froliced in the ocean. But he didn't start as the rebel. Right. That's true. The rebel usually. I know.

He couldn't jackus. Once a 16-year-old loses their porn iPad. So did Lockland. Locklands lost his iPad. So that was my second thing. Two more thing. Well, third theme, the Buddhism, Buddhism really kicked in this episode. And there's a religious.

Yeah. something happening now. Who am I? What should I do? We had snake fire tsunamis. Now we're in, all right, the concept of choice, faith, what do you believe in? We're now moving into that. There's a lot of big-ass themes being juggled. Oh, yeah, yeah.

This idea that, like, the whole Sam Rockwell monologue is an attempt, a lost person trying to figure out who they are, who am I? And where can I find that? Can I find it having sex with thousands of women, dressing up differently, or a Buddhism and sobriety, I guess. And then Tim Ratliff, who's praying to his Christian God at the end of this episode, wants to know what should I do, which is like a callback to what Saxon said earlier, where there's like two kinds of people in this world.

They're people who just want to be told what to do. And so like, who am I? What should I do? These are the big question. These are what we searched for answers for inside of spirituality. And then Saxon, they take away his choice because he does drugs, which he doesn't want to do. up on the other side of that guidance. Right. I need drugs.

I don't need drugs. I am the drug. But so they take away his choice and then he starts acting pretty goofy. Wow. I mean, if that's the word you want to use. My daughter Zoe, who I watched for the second time last thing with. And I asked her what drug it was because I know nothing. And she's like, oh, that's ecstasy.

Yeah, I was like, why did you know that so fag? I got mad at her. She's like, Dad, you know I don't do. The little candy in the bag used. party drive. I'm old. I don't know what's going on. Buddhism.

Then the last theme. Aging actress vanity? I think Mike White's trying to, something with that Jacqueline character about somebody who's on the tail end of her run as like a desired actress. And this has been the last two episodes, right? They're at the old hotel.

I'm not old yet. They're on the dance for her. And there's the women checking them out dancing. And she's like, look at me. I still got it. And then at the end, I'm going to be the woman that has sex with Valentine. Like, yeah. There's something he's trying to do with that.

Well, yeah, just Jacqueline being a person who needs to feel vital, young, have attention. But this is something you think he's trying to say something bigger with that? Well, I think he's, by the way, I have no inside info. But he's definitely worked with different types of actresses, right? He's had a couple older actors that he's worked with. I just wonder, like, if there's some extra juice on that bone. I think that those points are all part of the same text, though. And even though this season is set in Thailand and Buddhism is a central, actual,

active aspect of the text, like it's not subtext. That's been there since the beginning minute one of the show and has been a through line across all three seasons. Like, what role does desire play in your life? And what decisions do you make when you're guided by desire and you're ruled by desire? And then what decisions do you make if you feel like you have to rebel against that? Like, the Jacqueline thing is of a piece with that entirely. it's how she, the thing she desires is to be desired, right, is to be an object of other people's desire.

And so she is potentially sabotaging her friendships, her marriage, core relationships in her life to feel that for a minute. And I think also, I really agree with you. And I think also this idea that at the White Lotus, when you're at the White Lotus, you have achieved so much luxury. You have had so many desires in your life fulfilled. Every desire you could possibly want is probably filled. And how existential, how lost are you when that happens to you? How lost are so many of these privileged people? And so for Jacqueline, who has so much to just need that much more,

or for Sam Rockwell to have, like, fucked his way through Bangkok and he's just like, and yet I need more. I feel hollow. Yeah. Well, the White Lotus recurring theme, if it looks good on the surface, it's probably not, Things aren't going great. We're going to take a break and come back and I'll go through the episode. Snoring, gasping during sleep, feeling fatigued, ask your doctor about Zepbound,

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Our guy guide talk. Brutal. Listen. The worst security guard. I mean, at least in recent history, I don't know if I'm willing to go, worst security guard of all time. I love Guy Talk. Terrible.

He should not be working this job. Really stupid. When Fabian's like, but like who's in the booth? Right. Terrible. So you think like a couple minutes? Leaves the booth over and over and

just have a meeting about this. Smart enough to actually go through the video and see who does it. And there's Tim Ratliff coming out with a gun and then does this weird thing where he's stalking the dinner table for a while. Yeah. It doesn't have the-suttle. Doesn't have the balls to say like, yo man, give me my gun back. I cannot find something.

I think you haven't. Tim's like, nope. Just walks right out. On the one hand, doesn't have the balls. On the other hand, at the White Lotus, like we hear from Fabian later

when he's talking to Belinda, you have to be like so delicate with these people. So I think he was trying to give Tim the opportunity to just like leave the gun on the counter and walk away and we can all pretend

that this never happened. You know, like that kind of handling. Well, he gave him the opportunity, but then when the opportunity wasn't taken, there's another move at that point. Hey, I need the gun back now. Or just like fess up.

Go tell Fabian, go tell your boss. Like, I'm sorry I lost the gun. And this is the theme. As risk Mook finding out. That's exactly it. Like, this is the theme. And this is why he continues to be such a strong candidate for being involved in something tragic at the end. Like, he is in such a dire street in this stretch of the episode.

And yet, when Moog walks by and smiles at him, he kind of can't help but get swept up in her beauty. No, I can't blame him. I feel the same way. She's so beautiful. She's so adorable. Like the shift change comes. Yeah. And the guy replacing him is like, anything I should know, it's like, nope.

And we get it. He's invested in upward forward forward mobility to impress MOOC. And so he's not going to reveal something that leads to him being fired and jeopardizes his courtship. But that's going to probably lead to somebody getting killed. Anything I should know? Yeah, the guy in room 507 stole our new gun. Yeah.

Yeah. Mallory, I know you related to several people. inside of this episode. I did. And I'm so excited to talk to you about it. In a shocking fashion. Did you relate to Fabian? I can't wait to find out. Did you relate to Fabian when he said, I have antacid if your stomach upset.

I get digestion issue when I'm nervous. I did. Yeah. I was like, my guy also thinks every podcast should be sponsored by Emodium. Yeah. Well, so this was the only episode. I think that's a same night two episode, which we talked about last time. So we're still at dinner with Piper and the parents.

And she tells them the Thailand plan. Poor Tim has just zonked out. She might as well tell I'm like, I landed on Mars last night. He would not be listening. But our girl Parker Posey, who's not on... What's the pill? Laprazam. Larazepam?

She's going to have to drink herself to sleep. She's boozing it up. So she's more lively than ever. Apparently, withdrawals from Laramam are like intensive and kind of immediate. it. So I don't know what's going to happen to Vicky for the next couple days because she was like chewing those things down. By the way, also found out that apparently Loresapam is sweet and just dissolves on your tongue so we don't have to worry about Tim taking them dry. Oh, interesting. They're just a sweet little candy.

Like to apologize to Tim Rattler. Exactly. For that and that alone. Only that. The poison fruit though. Still poisonous. Yes. Incredible Parker Posey stuff. Best scene of the whole of the whole season, I think, so far. Which one? The table scene or back at the villa? I mean, you combine them together. She's just humming.

Charles Mids and wrote books. Bill Clinton wrote books. Hilary Clinton wrote books. The list goes on. That just absolutely killed me. No, but like everything she's, I mean, like, all of her, like. She thinks they're in Taiwan. Yeah.

That was a revelation. It's insane. But when, when Piper says, okay, a lot, okay, hell well, lied to you. I'm not here for my, for my thesis. I'm here to check out. There's no thesis? There's no. I wanted to come here was to check it out and I did and I really like it.

Piper, you briefly walked through the monastery once. Yeah, you meant one ball guy. What do you mean? What do you mean you checked it out and you liked it? Literally the equivalent of watching one Instagram real. Yeah, exactly. You could end up with a completely different set of values. That was great. Than the ones we gave you.

She was awesome. Shelter girls like you were constantly getting brainwashed and turned. out. Right. Someone needs to take Vicky's, like the Netflix documentaries away from Vicky. Yeah. Absolutely. How about look at the Catholics, organized cults and deviant sex can go hand in hand?

Mike White just slinging it. I was going to say that the class. It sounds like Vicki should have a podcast. Yeah. Mike White, son of a, son of a preacher, but like, you know, the Catholics, I guess, are open season. Great combination. This was really like the Vicky experience in miniature because she is, you know, ultimately, really embarrassing herself in multiple respects, like revealing yet again that she doesn't actually

know anything about her own child. I don't know anything about her own child that she is a practicing Buddhist, that this is something that's important to her, why it would be important to her. She is just revealing. You want to live in Taiwan. Prejudice after prejudice, like total ignorant person. And yet we kind of can't stop, like, laughing in a fit of hysterics as we watch this performance because it is such a finely tuned and perfectly calibrated bit of social commentary.

Also, yeah, I think the one extra layer of that is that I think also she's right. That's what I think is also true about Vicky here. Not that they're in Taiwan, obviously. And not that you can't explore Buddhism or whatever, but the fact that Piper has not put enough thought into this. Yeah, for sure. Yes. What was the best Piper word? Was it guru?

Oh. Or was it, what was the other one she said? It's tough. Crowded field. Oh, Buddhist? I do feel like sometimes. with these shows, the actor takes like three to four episodes to really nail the character completely. Now she has it.

Have you been enjoying the clip of Parker Posey from like, It's Good Morning America or whatever? I saw that. And she was talking about how much fun she has with the words. Harper. No, Buddhism. Yeah. It's great. It's great stuff.

I think everyone has come all the way back around on all of the accent work on this show. I actually sometimes find it most amusing to listen to her just with like normal words. Like the way she just said have no purpose because she's drawing it out over like 45 seconds, even though it's three words. Since that's the best. Well, at the end of that whole thing, when we got back to the villa, and she says, you could do everything right. And then some moment can upend everything.

It doesn't realize that poor Tim's listening that going. Oh, you don't know how right you are, sister. Well. Because we are, I am about to go to jail unless I shoot myself at the end of this episode. I mean, he's going to have a tough time later in bed when he hears what she has to say about facing the feedback back home, you know. She says people are going to say we're bad parents. And he goes, I wouldn't worry about that.

There's a lot of other things to worry about it. I wouldn't worry about that. I have a same question for you guys. Did you, obviously he's in his haze, right? He's in this cloud for so many different reasons. On the heels of the phone call, learning he's going to go to jail, the drugs, all of it. But did you, were you expecting it all, like that he would actually say,

Piper, I support you. You should move abroad and live your life away from the blowback of my impending shame. That he would actually welcome a member. of his family. Interesting. I was kind of expecting that a little bit. Though I don't, not fully because the other part of this is like, it's one more defeat where he has to like yet again grapple with the fact that his family is just shattering

around him. His legacy is shattering around him. Something that, yeah, something that Jason Isaac said on the official podcast, he was talking about how, first of all, Piper is his favorite child. Clearly. Is Tim's favorite. Yeah. That she can do no wrong, that anything she wants.

She's like the princess. that she can have whatever she wants, which is, by the way, what Saxon accused her of earlier. Yep. And then also that, like, all of this is bullshit. He's like, she's not staying here. Saxon's not going back to the office. Like, none of, and nothing is happening for them in the future as far as Tim is concerned right now. But here's my question for you, and Rob and I did talk about this.

On a show like White Lotus where there's never consequences for the extremely rich, Do you think there's a possibility that this whole thing, Hounding Tim, just like blows over before the season's over? Good question, but no. No. I don't. I think that's, it's too, they're too far down the road with it. Like, we're going to be like, oh, it turns out Kenny Nguyen was full shit.

And you're off the hook now. I can't imagine they would do that. I don't know. I just like, like, like, like, White just like really likes to let rich people off the hook as a commentary for the fact that rich people get off the hook all the time. So, you know. It's a good theory, though. I like it.

So, like, watch him spin out for a week and then nothing happens. Totally imbound. They cut a deal and he does that. Specifically because he doesn't have his phone. Like, that's actually part of why that feels possible. He doesn't have the latest update that, like, everything's fine. He's got a gun to his temple. If Vicky hadn't opened the door, is he alive?

Really good thing. And then makes it through the next couple days, finds out he's okay and goes back to the same life of privilege and getting away with white color crime. Speaking of Jason Isaacs. Yeah. It's time to tackle episode four. We're ready. We had a big debate in episode four about stunt or real.

I'm always in this. I think they go stunt every time or some sort of fluff. You said real and Mao said real. Some of your deep dive research, some emails, what did you hear? We did hear from some listeners We heard from a lot of listeners that occasionally Apparently most men in the UK

Are not circumcised So we got a lot of email saying So that helps the real case No stunt case Okay Oh interesting However Mallory is a counter move Which is

Jason Isaacs is a Jewish man And so Being circumcised To me is part of the proof That is actually his dick That's all you have What do you mean? A week of research

That's the only thing That's the only thing. Jason Isaacs is Jewish. That's it? In response to that. No. I'm responding specifically to her point about us. I thought you had more stuff.

I have the answer. I know. You guys go. You guys go and I'll tell you the answer. Okay, so the episode episode is aired. I just want to say really quickly. I was responding to Joanna's point on circuit.

I just want to say really quickly. Thank you for that. I just want to say really quickly. The amount of restraint that we have shown for the sake of content, not asking you right away what the answer was. It said, reveal it on the podcast. Our texting has been like barren of any details.

What do you think? You're making us wait to do it here. The interviews off of episode four are out. And so I would say we know the answer simply because not a single interview has included the line. It was a prosthetic, which everybody says when they wear a prosthetic. So it's real. That's my deductive reasoning. So because they didn't mention that it was actually him, you think it's real?

I think because they didn't mention that it was a prosthetic. It's real. Any last thoughts before I tell you the answer? I still say it's real. Presthetic. Okay. Yeah. Devastating.

Jeez. Thanks for doing that research though, Bill. I really appreciate you getting to the bottom of things. What does that go big or go home quote mean then? What is that about? It's been a prosthetic every season, right? It was prosthetic for Steve on and Steve's on. Yeah, exactly.

The lack of balls were to the clue for me. Yeah, you really were. However, Vlad and. Glad in this episode. Right. That's got to be real. That thing was swinging. Yeah, that's true.

That was real. That's got to be real. That's the whole package. Is that, is everyone current on Shorsey season four? What? Is that technically the helicoptering? Helicoptering is a big plot in Shorsey season four, or do you have to be holding your dick and swinging it for it to be helicoptering it? What's helicoptering?

This is what I'm asking? It would, like, what is doing? The lasso? Oh. Is that helicoptering or do you actually have to hold your dick? I cannot. Wait to see what your husband texts you about this episode. And my question is, is next week finally going to be the episode where Mallory doesn't make

hand gestures? I mean, it depends on what, you know, the show gives us to work with. We played all the hits of this episode. We have that long Sam Rockwall story. Yep. We had nudity in the pool on both sides. We sure did. We had brothers kissing.

Like, this show was really going for it. I thought we were going to get another dick at the end in the Jacqueline sex scene, but we didn't. Not yet. I was shocked. It seemed like when, yeah. we can get to that. But yeah, it seemed like they were setting up for the wide shot. Yeah, he looked down right before he took up his pants.

And I was like, we are about to get another dick. But last. Speaking of the fancies. Condolences. Yeah, sorry. Sorry about you and Jason. I know you were living the dream. Hey, I support everybody making the choice that they think is right for them.

Good for him. So the fancy cougars were out of the Russians. Boy, were they. One of the great things about this episode is not knowing where it was going to go. and because it's the White Lotus, your mind is racing to, like, all the possible terrible ways that could go. Yeah. And actually none of them went that way, but it went exactly how we said from the beginning, which is that Jacqueline was going to push Valentin on Lori and then fuck him herself. A number of episode one predictions for fruit here in episode five.

Yeah. What was the guy from Game of Thrones? What was his part? The Magnar Finn. Magnar Finn said, my parents are dead and my sister's a bitch. That really made me laugh. Honestly, he's really great. I'm really obsessed with your like, Arnold Schwarzenegger accent.

It's just the same accent for all countries. Can we hear you doing exercise with tires? Exercise with tires? They're all like, oh, yeah, we were dancers. And Kate's like, I played softball. And he's like, I did flip tires. Exercise with tires? Oh, CrossFit.

Should we dance? She's, Jacqueline's just dying to get out there and strut her stuff. She just wants to get attention from anyone. If I tried to dance like that, I would drop dead. How about Carrie Coon's dancing was great. Okay, incredible. Like, really, like 10 out of 10. I would die.

I have, okay, I have multiple things about this. First of all, I think underrated greatness actually is Leslie Bibbs terrible dancing. Oh my God. The face is Kate. Yeah. Great stuff. Carrie Coon, great dancer. There are some moves that were a little like Julia style, Save the Last Dance, a little like top that teen witch.

Yeah. A little like white girl hip hop. Yeah. But overall. They shook him in and then kicking him. That was wonderful. Great stuff. Great stuff.

Really good scene. Yeah. Electric. Did you guys think when Jacqueline was looking at the three women watching that she was like, they know I'm famous. It's not just that they think I'm hot and it look great. No. They know I'm famous and they want she wanted this to get back to Harrison.

No, she felt judged by them. Yeah. She's like, I'm here and not you guys. Yeah. No, she was like, they were looking and like laughing and stuff like that. It was very much like Jacqueline at the retiree pool is the way those girls were looking at her. And so then she was just like...

Look at those old women dancing with the Russians. Yeah, it's like, look at those old women dancing with those guys. And so she just like smeared herself on Alexi and on and grab Valentin to be like, I'm hot and I deserve to be out here. That was my interpretation of what that was. Well, the Russians bought them shots and watching it the first time, it's like, this is... I also had that thought. I was thinking, rehypnal... No, I also thought there might be something in the shots.

Especially when they were like pressure... Well, when Carrie Coon does the same. second one. Yeah. Yeah. Then I was like, oh my God. She's going to actually like. Yeah.

But nothing. And then, um. They toasted to Shiala Buff and they. And then the three Russian ladies came over and started shit with all the guys and they decided to go back to the villa. Genuinely scary moment from Alexi in that stretch. That was alarming. Kate wants to go.

Yeah. Deeply relate. I think we should just go to bed. Time to go to bed. Mallory and I were like, that's us. Um, and she's, she's lodging her objection. She's like, should we just call it a night? Like, haven't we done enough?

And Jacqueline doesn't even dignify this with a response to our conversation because Jacqueline's like, this is my vacation and you're just my sidekicks. So whatever I want to have happen is what's going to happen now. Kate's a really good character because they may or may not know a couple of Kate's. Sure. There for the fun, but not 100%. Yeah. There to have a great time, but not really. Are we make sure we're getting home in a decent hour?

It's in the back of their head the whole time. And they don't want to miss anything, but they're also not going to unleash. Yeah, PJ's at the pool party. Yeah. I mean, she literally says later, like, we're old ladies. And Jacqueline is, of course, appalled and horrified. And that's the exact idea that she's rebelling against. Jacqueline who is, like, passed out.

Yeah. Wakes herself up to be like, shut the fuck up. We are not. She barely could keep her eyes open when she was about to have sex, which was obviously quite disturbing. That was alarming. Well, they go back to the villa. They sure do.

And, actually, hold. that because it ties into the what's happened on the boat. We'll go to... Quite an edited sequence cutting back and forth. Before we go to Belinda, the Russians as a threesome, I feel like this could have gone wrong from a writing

standpoint, from a casting standpoint, but I actually really enjoyed the Russians. I don't know, are they dangerous? Are they not? Did they commit the robbery? They probably did. Are they going to be in some crazy Muay fight tomorrow and somebody's eyeballs is going to get yanked out? Maybe. I don't know what to expect.

A friend who was fighting. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. So there's another member of the group still, which is interesting. And obviously they have this larger social circle there because of the three women to come up to the table to yell at them. So, yeah, I think Vlad is really the key there because Val and Alexi are just a little too. You couldn't really even for a second stop thinking that they were working them. And Vlad in some ways is the scariest.

Like, he's the muscle. I mean, they all have great muscles. But, like, he was just such effective comic relief that it was impossible not to enjoy those scenes. and the out, like the odd man out in each of the trios, the fact that Vlad and Kate are like paired was a great touch. First of all, I want to say, Alexi, I'm really disappointed because I think he promised us that snake tattoo went all the way down. He's a liar.

And he absolutely did not. Great point. Their word is trash. False advertising. Barely anywhere. But as you mentioned, their muscles, I looked it up. Julian who plays Alexi, Julian Costoff, holds over 60 medals as a professional swimmer, including a bronze medal at the Balkan Games 2007.

And then Arnaz who plays Valentine. Is that a WB? I would watch the Balkan Games. That sounds interesting to me. And Arnaz who plays Valentin is a boxer. Going to Belinda quickly. Mm-hmm. It's been a rough Bullinda season.

Do you think so? It's got kind of one plot. She finally tells Fabian about Greg Gary. I loved this actually. The guy that's asking about me. I know him. Big mistake. I think we've set up Fabian as some sort of a villain, correct?

I think he's just like, this is, okay, we met all those criminals on the yacht and their young girlfriends. This is the idea that this is a haven for criminal activity. People who are criminals who are escaping the repercussions come to the White Lotus. So you think he just knows the game and he doesn't, it's almost like he doesn't want to know. He's like, yeah, hear no evil, see no evil, speak no evil. It's interesting because I took it as he's in the Greg Gary payroll. I think he's just like he just doesn't want anything to be ruffled. He's like, you might be mistaken.

We shouldn't be gossiping a guess. P.S. he's not a guess, but okay, Fabian. Yeah. Some of the guests have colorful pass, right? So it's just like, but then he ends it with, I think you'll survive. I think it's like that kind of. I feel better now. That very insidious evil where he's not like a villain villain.

He just wants everything to be calm. and does not want to ruffle any feathers. Yeah. Yeah. Well, like he told, this is just, closely. He told Guy Talk last episode, like, your job is to protect the hotel.

So this is his version of that, right? It's about the, like, what it, when he, his greeting to the guests was the most effusive, like, this is the finest hotel in the world that we had seen through three seasons. And we heard when he sat down with sitelah, like, this kind of thing was not encouraged in my home.

This is like a haven of some sort for him. that is distinct from where he came before. And it struck me as, like, very contrary to last season. Like, we have three really distinct versions of the hotel manager. And last season, like, if we think about the response to... I like the shitting in the suitcase is still my favorite. It's honestly, like, everyone is in Armand's shadow. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Everyone is in Armand shadow, for sure. But, like, when Lucia and Mia penetrated the hotel. Frising. in Sicily. Yeah. It was like, this is an affront to decency and dignity.

So Fabian is in the exact opposite. He's like, this is actually a kind of haven for depravity. Come here with your sins and be who you are and we will protect that. It's nice to get different versions

in that, actually. Do you think he's being set up for what's your Fabian theory? I'm just raising a flag. I wonder if Greg Gary, you know, he looks out for him a little bit. I don't know.

Something didn't sit right with. Doesn't help. that this guy recently played a notorious film Nazi, right? Oh, interesting. That vibe doesn't help. Okay. I didn't know that part.

I also thought... We need some sort of bad person who works for the hotel this season. There's somebody in there. Valentin is leading a crime right into the hotel. I think we have that box. Maybe. Or just maybe he likes that fun.

Could be. Could be. Maybe he's just a good butler. Let's take care of his clients. He went in like the span of mere hours, I believe, across those two episodes from being like, I can't leave it all to like, yeah, sure. Not only will we take you to the club,

but we'll definitely come back and, like fucking her pole and in the room. Also, was he the one that did the... Yeah, the energy healing. Energy. He's an energy healer. It is something I do. I thought that Fabian also basically... You love Valentin. He's your guy.

He's a lot of good qualities. He's grown on me as well. I thought that Fabian was basically acting like a pimp. That to me was the much more sinister thing, right? He's just basically saying... Yeah, he's kind of saying to Belinda, like this rich loser who has a really hot girlfriend, like, maybe wants to fuck you and she's like, he wants to kill me. And Fabian is like, no, no, no.

Like, yeah, rich high profile guy, go for it. They think he killed his wife. I'll send you a link. That was great. I'm pleased to you because I'm having hard time following. I actually like that as like meta commentary on this show is supposed to be standalone each season and now we're three seasons into one plot line carrying across. And it like, is it actually something that is a touch convoluted?

I also just love when she was like, Bobla, Greg, and he's like, Gary. Well, later, Belinda. Blinda's guy comes to a room. Orange I. Love it. She's an iguana band or dresser and been having sex, which we do not see. I would rank her plot as the least interesting out of all the plots.

But on a scale of 1 to 10, how is there might be a murderer after me. It's fine. It's a giant lizard in my... No, no, no. No, no. No. No.

No. There's a giant lizard in my villa. and my son will be here tomorrow as like a pickup line. I just stay the night. Fuck me tonight because my son's coming tomorrow is definitely a move. Yeah. It's kind of a weird one, but it's a move. I did find her stumbling, super nervous.

Like, do you, this is consent? Do you guys do that here? We just started very charming. Oh, I thought it was, that was great. I think they're very sweet. I just think if you're struggling out there, maybe there's a murderer after me. Will you stay the night?

Could be a move to try. Can you at least cuddle? Let's go to the boat. Great. Finally. Just brothers being brothers. There's a little secret. There's a little secret, Lockie.

They just want to be used. Yeah. Some life advice from Saxon. Some life advice that young Lockie is going to use on Saxon in mere moments. Right. And Chloe loves young guys. Yeah. She likes that innocent look and how they shake.

Little rabbits. Yeah. She likes to see their little heart pounding out of their chest. She's a riot. She's great. I'm a fresh breeze, baby. Yep. Mear hours before he's going to smooch his brother.

I would say his brother smooched him. He didn't break the kiss. He seemed very confused. Hey, you're jumping ahead. With the Chloe piece. The Chloe piece, because we like to take little pieces that we can take maybe for the final episode when shit goes down. Yeah. When I was modeling all the girls who were romantic ended up broke or.

brokenhearted, dot, dot, dot, or worse. What's worse? So what does that mean? Another death? Well, it's two things. So what does she know? Because she's like, I feel like Gary killed his, could kill me. Killed his wife.

She mentioned that last episode. He could kill me. But that line was about Chelsea. Yeah. She was like, you're romantic. Every model that I knew was a romantic, wound up broke or brokenhearted or dead. I'm just trying to piece together her puzzle of, she met this guy on Dubai Tinder.

She knows he might have. killed his... Tinder. Might have killed his wife. That's in play. She worked in a business where people ended up dead. And Greg Garry

has to have sex with her a lot. Three times today. Now he's a fucking monk. Well, I think this works yet again on both levels. It's like another death harbinger for Chelsea. We've had one, at least one every single episode.

But also, Chelsea, who we love. We get the amazing. He's like, my child. He's 50. You're blasting. Baby Yoda. It's like, he's 50. But the Chelsea

responding to broken broken hearted with what's worse That actually does tell us something about her What's worse than being broke Like she is now accustomed to a certain lifestyle Right? So losing Rick is losing that lifestyle And that is not something that she wants to court That's not my take on Chelsea at all

You think she's materialistic? I don't think of her that way That's why it struck me Because it's like even Chelsea That's my point I thought she was saying... I didn't take the money thing either. I thought it was more like that was like her identity was being with Rick.

I think that we had a brokenhearted or worse than she was like, what's worse? What's worse than being brokenhearted? Sure. There's that. But like, I think it's interesting that Chelsea feels really separate from that. Like she's pure. She's driven by love and connection. And yet, like, when we get all of the Villator, she's the one who's like, we should always live like this.

Like, even Chelsea has been corrupted by tasting a lifestyle. I think it's true that... Which band calls her hot tooth lady. Yeah. I think it's true that everyone on White Lotus is susceptible to that. I just think... I really do think that Chelsea's motivation is like this hippie soul connection. For sure.

I'm not saying that's her motivation. I'm saying that like even somebody who's not motivated by that is swept up in it at a certain point. Well, Saxon gives us it's better to go for what you want in life and get rejected than have the shot and not take it. Yeah. Which is a little similar to the Wayne Gretzky. I was going to say it. That's a Gretzky. What's that one?

Very sporty. You miss 100% of the shots you don't take. That's a sports quote. Sure is. And I knew it. Just wanted everyone to know. And then Lockhe says this is when they're paired off to and two. What if this life is just a test to see if we can become better people?

That's Buddhism. And Saxon goes, what? No. She's horrified by that. Favorite moment. That was great. That's the sort of my understanding. Please do emailing me if I get Buddhism wrong.

But like the idea of Buddhism is you, you, every life you purify yourself towards Nirvana. So the idea is like each time sort of like quantum leap you're trying to be a better, like each time you're trying to be a better. Sounds great. Better person. Sure. On paper, probably the best sales job for a religion. Just keep living your life and trying to wittle away until you get better. Yeah.

So you just keep get to keep coming back. Yeah. Give it a go. I was like, I just want to come back as a cat once. I think I have one life. That's it. Just one. One life for mouth.

Here's what I thought was like the most. There's a lot of telling three. And which one are you on? But I think you just become like a plant. Which one are you on? That sounds kind of nice. I feel like I'm on the second one. I feel like I'm also on my second.

Yeah. One more to go. One more. That's it. Trying to make the best out of this one. One day I'm going to take you down is what Lockman says to Saxon. Yeah. And there's something in their dynamic that is just sort of like he,

is attracted to his brother. I think we've known that since episode one in its own way, but also, like, hates his brother. Do you know? Like, that's in the mix. This idea of, like, I want to be you. I want to have sex with you possibly. And also, it's a very White Lotus, sort of like, Jackie Shawna thing. And also just, like, I hate you. You're constantly tormenting me at the same time, you know? Yeah. And that, like, very shortly after that, Saxon's response, because that was, like, the nominally about the beer, right? Who it's, oh, I need you to like paste yourself. Let them get messy.

I'm a senior, bro. Let them get all sloppy. And then, you know, shortly thereafter, Lockhey, like, immediately takes the pill from Chloe and Saxon is horrified. And you have one beat where you think, well, it is technically his job as the older brother to be, like, protecting him, make sure he's safe. But really, there are two things in the mix there. One, Locky is just not listening to the, he's not following through in the plan that Saxon

just said. But more broadly then, Saxon just has to confront time and time again across this episode. Like, Lockhe's his own person. He operates outside of Saxon's control. And not only does he operate outside of his control, he is preparing to conquer Saxon, like to turn this around on him completely to be the one who is in control of his situation in a way that Saxon is not prepared for. Do you have siblings?

No. Okay. I don't. I was going to ask a creepy question about it. It's just... I don't know any... any brother combo that would even go within 2% of this. No.

That's why this, this, this felt, I'll just do this now. This felt like a whiff unrealistic to me. But this is Mike White's White Lotus. Just the whole thing. Like, it's just, I don't know where this is going. But I did like quotes like, Saxon doesn't do drugs. I am the drug, woo. I love third person.

Saxon was they were running out of ways to make him a complete douche. And they were like, third person could work. dog on the space cat. Space cat is the name of the boat, but he, of course, is the big dog. What did you find? How much did it cost? 160K a week to charter the space cat. Well, we get a drunk drugs montage. We get all the naked Russians in the pool with the fancies. We get the brothers dancing with Chelsea and Chloe. It's starting to feel mating ritualist I wrote down.

Like, it just, there's clothes. We're underwater in the pool. Just spinning out of control sort of thing. Carrie Coongos Tapas. It really seemed like she's, was going to take on two guys in a scene in a room that did not happen. Should have hooked with them. Instead, she wanted to tell them what

a badass lawyer she is. That was amazing. I don't know if they love that. And then fireworks, the brothers are getting rubbing his hair. Yeah. Yeah, she said, oh, when she's talking to the Russians, I didn't get worried like we were going to a

dark place for a second. Like her and the two guys, yeah. It's like, oh, man, but it was fine. she went to bed. Went to scratch her ass while Jacqueline was fucking her dude. Before she went to scratch her ass and snore a little bit. The dance. She was like feeling herself so much.

It's very sad. Really sucks. Jacqueline sucks. She does. And then we have the late night boat ride. It feels like there's a swimming disaster for a second. Yeah. Jumping off the day.

Like drives like, oh my God, does somebody hit their head? That doesn't happen. Chelsea's talking about bad things happening to her. Chloe's ready to have a foursome. Yeah, should we all just talk. And then we have a little kiss contest. The brother's kiss. So what's the ramifications of this going to be?

To do the thing where we're the next day we don't remember it happened? Is this where the night ends? That's my question. Oh. I mean, didn't seem like it was over, right? I think that Locky, it was. Saxon like rubbing his hands in his eyes he's bleary-eyed, he's confused, he's like,

what's happening? Yeah, what's happening? The girls are laughing, but Saxon looked genuinely disturbed by what was unfolding. Is that because he's like, wait, this is not okay? Or is that because he's like, what am I feeling? But the single most striking shot in the entire episode to me is Lockhe's face after that. Because he's just like experiencing a moment of not only desire, but like power.

He feels proud. Yeah. He's like, I took the thing I want. You've been telling me to and I did. And it was really fucked up and weird.

I would like to ask you guys where this falls. We'll keep it just to HBO Sunday nights on your HBO Sunday night incest power rankings. Oh my God. I mean,

is it. Jamie and Serce in the top spot, doggy style. It has to be one. That's number one. Where would you put this compared to like...

I think that's one, two, and three. Well, I mean, what about Jimmy and his mom? I guess the 1300s were different though. Yeah, sure. It's true. Jimmy and his mom boardwalk, that's tough to match.

This is the research value I was doing this last week. Googling HBO incest moments. I didn't have to Google any of it. Octavia and Octavian on Rome. Sure. That's a great one. Obviously, the list of Thrones and... What?

Did you do anything on Curb? The list of Thrones and House of the Dragon alone, you know, we could get dozens deep. Obviously, Damon and Renierra. This doesn't even really crack the top five. It doesn't even crack the top ten. It was a kiss that lasted long enough to make me uncomfortable, but it wasn't like, they weren't sucking face for like 20 seconds. But Lucky goes back in for the longness.

It was just long enough to be weird. I usually hate these exercises, but I will say this. If the genders are switched in this scene, this is like one of the most horrific things. If a girl was like rubbing her eyes and drugged out of her mind and there were two guys on the couch laughing and sort of like cheering and honest and like that, that is horrifying. This is horrifying. Like it's like, and I like that, I don't like it, but I like that a character like Saxon, a character Schwarzenegger's great, a character I hate, I hate this guy, they're putting

him in this extremely vulnerable place in a way that like makes me really invested in what happens next for him. Even like he got peer pressure into doing drugs. Like he didn't want to do the drugs. He did. We have everything. We had the moment earlier in the season where Tim was like, I don't do drugs, and Sachs was like, me neither.

And Piper's like, dude, you crush Adderall all the time. And he's like, just to be, do work, just to be good of my job. We're seeing what's happening with Tim. Like, these men say they don't do this thing and then they become swept up in a very alarming way in something that they're quite susceptible to. So there was just a lot of like stuff in the episode where Saxon and not a character we had any empathy before previously is like in this deeply vulnerable place. I thought in terms of where we cut off and like that point about not

knowing what comes next, these are not incest examples. To be clear, these are not incest examples. Coming up next. But the, because we don't know, like, do they end up sleeping together?

Does something happen after this? I think they're so fucked up. It ends there was a little bit of a like, Etu Mamatambian or like challengers aspect to it, right? Where you're just like, again, remove the incest from it. In theory, somebody, that sexual situation is supposed to be about somebody else.

and then those two friends or figures end up being the ones to gravitate towards each other. Here's my main question because I actually have no doubt in my mind that some upsetting combination of people are about to have sex on this boat. Schwarzenegger posted a great thing on Twitter where it's like him and Sam Nipola who plays Lachlan. It's just the two of them. He's like, what could happen on, what bad could happen on a boat? Actually, my question right now is Chelsea involves because I would like Chelsea to, not be involved. You know what I mean? So it could be one of those White Lotus things where

there's just an immense amount of regret nine hours later because of the decisions that are about to happen. Because like I would like no one to be involved. I would clearly not like brothers have sex on the vote or whatever. But like Kate was right. Kate is always maybe not about the election.

Tomorrow's to be a day. We've got a big movie tie fight tomorrow. But I think that like Chelsea calling Rick and him not picking up and then Rick calling Chelsea and her not picking up that shot so good when like it's the phone and then like, and it's always like legs in the air and stuff like that. But like is Chelsea going to do something she regrets on this boat? I don't think so ultimately because at the end of the day, Chelsea, when she said, when they had the funny but alarming classic white lotus conversation about what you think he'd kill you, no. Oh, Gary would kill me. What did Chelsea say? She's like, I just actually would feel really bad. Yeah.

No, exactly. Well, that's where the stakes are high. Yeah. And all, but she feels. really different in a reason that draws us to her from Jacqueline, where Jacqueline's like, I feel betrayed. So now I will hurt this person, Harrison. Well, don't we need a moral... But that's not Chelsea. We need a moral compass in every season, right? It feels like Chelsea's the moral compass.

Season one, it was the Diderio character. Mike White thinks it's... No. Who was it then? Definitely not. Who was it? Who was it? Mikeway thinks is Belinda this season.

That's what he says. What? No, it wasn't? I like Dadario. She goes back to Jane. She was the one who went back to her husband who she didn't love. She felt bad for her. I felt bad for her until she went back to shame.

She knew, but she knew right from wrong for most of the episodes and then kind of begrudgingly ended up in this life that she didn't want to begin with. But then I like lose, then I lose my like, Chelsea. Maybe. Wow. Maybe. Yeah. They're all complex.

Let's take a break because we've got to hit Sam Rockwell. This episode is brought to by Boris Head. What if we told you the taste of deep fried turkey is now available at your local deli? Well, Boar's Head just did that. Bursting with flavor, perfectly seasoned with that indulgent taste that usually means pointing your whole day around it. Presenting the Friars Turkey Breast only from Boar's Head. The backyard tradition now available behind the counter.

Visit your local deli today. Discover the craftmanship behind every bite. Boershead committed to craft since 1905. All right. Our guy Sam Rockwell, who moved to Thailand because he had a thing for Asian girls and became insatiable. and then question desire. What is desire? I can fuck a million women and never be satisfied.

Maybe what I want is to be one of those Asian girls. And we just go and we go and we go. And we go. And we keep going. Yep. I am her and I am fucking me. Guys would reel the shit out of me. I'd hire an Asian girl.

I'd look in her eyes and say I am her. I'm fucking me. But then he ends the whole monologue and he goes, Hey, we all have our Achilles seals. Yep. And Gagons is like, still miss that pussy, man. Wild.

Yeah. Incredible stuff from Gagins. So is this it for Rockwell or do we see him again? No. I think he's coming back. Definitely back. Gives in the back with the gun. Yeah.

Has to play the director. Needs him to come back to play a role. Yeah. So what do you think play a role means? Well, so when he was, yeah, when he was talking to Sita La back when he was originally. He's starting his call on. He's like, I got a friend who's a director in Bangkok.

To gain access to her husband, Jim Hollinger, who he believes killed his dad, but probably is his dad. And he mentions how he got into Buddhism. One thing I was thinking about with this show is people assuming different identities. Yeah. It's a weird season. It's a weird thing about this season. 100%.

You have Greg Gary. You have this guy talking about it. You have Rick who's about to go one way or the other. You have Lockheed trying to figure out his eyes. identity. Yeah, absolutely. You have Jason Isaacs whose identity is about to end. Wow.

Well, no, no, but he lost his identity because, like, his identity was, I'm a big swinging dick. I'm like the provider. I'm the dad. I'm a leader at the club. I'm a pillar of the community. And now I'm going to jail. And now I'm nothing.

Right. I'm poor. I'm broke. That was what was so sad about him trying to compel Saxon to turn over his phone by being like, we can figure out how to provide something more and having to confront that, like, he didn't actually feel like he had that. But that book, we talked about this last week, but that book that Piper is reading and that comes back into play in this episode. So memorably, like, the clip that we hear is, yeah, identity is a prison. Well, so Zion's coming. No man has spared this prison.

Zion's coming in episode six, I would assume. Yeah. Yeah. So what's, and then we see him in one of those therapy sessions at the beginning of first episode. She said, she said, just come on in. That's what she said. She said, just come straight to the villa. Yeah. And she is an overnight guest.

Yeah. But how long is the flight from Maui to Thailand? A thousand hours? I don't know. It just seems like that would be the longest flight ever. Take them a while to get there, I guess. Well, no, actually. Is there any way to Thailand that's not 20 hours?

This is one of the many reasons I'll never, no, never find out. One day and one hour, according to Google. How do you think Sam Rockwell and. And our guy, Rick, like, what do you think the whole background of those? Conmen. They used to party together. Yeah. He used to party wild together.

Where do you think they lived? Oh, no, no home base. Citizens of the world. Just bounce around like Texas, California. Well, like, where did they start? Can't go to Australia, had to leave the states. Like the west and the south and then go to. Yeah.

A couple of different countries. Yeah. Oh, no question. Yeah. But it felt like they hadn't seen each other for a few years. Yeah. Yes. Yeah.

Yeah. So what do you think? think Rick's W-2 form was for the last 10 years. This and that. This and that. Okay, yeah. So Sam Rockwell's Californian.

And I was just curious. Long Gaghan's seven boy. Anything else we wanted to say about Sam Rockwell? Anything Mike White was trying to do with that monologue that I might have missed? Shock and like, not dismay, but like, shock people. Shock people with two brothers kissing. Shock people with this monologue from Sam Rockwell. And I'm still trying to figure out, like, I love this show. I'm still trying to figure out

what it is Mike White is trying to do with this, like, he's given interviews about it, but like, this idea that he wants to make queer sex, transgressive and shocking. I still don't fully understand what his motivation is behind it, but that is something that he wants to just like, he, what do you call it, borderline edge lord mentality is what he called it about himself. And so I just think that's, he's provoking. Part of that ties in with how he came up with this whole idea when he was in like a fever dream in Thailand. Yeah, but it's been, like just a crazy fever.

Yeah, I think the, well, I'm sure he'll talk about it more after the season or maybe not, but like the, the fever dream part of it feels like all of the particular trappings of how to interrogate the core themes that he's been interested in since day one. So I think that's actually what's interesting to me about the Rick and Frank conversation moving forward

is like, what impact is what all, what he just heard have on Rick? You know, the nature of desire in their circumstances is very different. But Rick is also a character who's being driven by desire, right? Like vengeance is a type of desire. The desire to avenge your family to enact an exact revenge on the person you think has wronged you. Does what he hear, coupled with the conversations he's had with Chelsea, coupled with the sessions that he had with on Rita,

balance him and pull him back when he's staring down the barrel of the gun looking into Jim Hollinger's eyes? And also this question of identity and who am I? Am I the son of a vague do-gooder, like this sort of thing? Am I the son of Jim Hollinger, something that he might discover when he comes face-to-face with him? Or can I choose to be something else, which is what Amritha was like suggesting to him is like, you can break this karmic cycle, you don't have to do this. And we think Scott Glenn is his dad. I definitely think that's true. then at the end

Tim's writing a suicide note with the gun on the desk Did you think he was going to do it? I actually did I don't know it's like it's episode five and it's I mean this is what we talked about last week Like exactly this like that he would attempt it But start to attempt it or start to attempt it But something would would halt him

Which is you know exactly what happened You haven't been acting like yourself Tim Oh really? He hasn't thanks for checking It's been a fucking maniac for three days It gives us that moment earlier in the season of him being driven to that point of supreme desperation, feeling like he had no other path forward. And then now three episodes to potentially make a different decision. But also that gun is in that room. I think it's also really interesting that like he, both he and Chelsea have this like, Chelsea has a speech to Chloe where she's like, Rick is always walking around like a sad sack like everything.

You know, she's like, bad things have happened to me. You don't see me walking around complaining about it. First of all, we don't know anything about Chelsea's life at all. So like what did happen to her? And also she's throwing herself a little bit of a pity party in that moment while she's saying. Yeah. You don't hear me complaining at all she's complaining right now. And then you, then we see Tim here at the end of the episode be like, I've had all this pressure on me.

This, my whole life, there's never been a minute where I haven't been expected to, you know, achieve. From day one. Yeah, from day one. And it's just sort of like, my guy, this lack of self-awareness running around. But he is in so ways right. Yeah, exactly. He's like from this like proud line of Carolinian greats. And it was interesting to hear Vicki describe him as a Boy Scout last episode to Piper.

You know, you don't know how lucky you are. And then to hear him say to Piper this episode, like I literally was an altar boy. And to have. Before he sings. Before he sings beautifully. And then we get to hear that him again. Yeah. Yeah.

But yeah, like that it, the characters are also different. but the fact that they are all grappling with that question of who am I? Who does the world made me feel I have to be? And then are any of them actually able to rebel against that? You left out one question. Please God, tell me what to do. What should I do? What am I?

What should I do? Yeah. That gun being in that room still makes me really nervous. Like, I do not feel so. Because you're like, a monkey's going to come in. Well, I'm like, is Saxon going to shoot lock? Like, is Saxon going to find that gun and be like, what did you do to me?

So it's completely possible. So poison smoothie out. Poison smoothie is still in. The poison smoothie remains in until the moment the final credits were. But like, you know, we are only five episodes in, five episodes is a lot, but mere five hours ago, we were like, Lockie, this beautiful innocent in the center of this family tug of war. Dating into the Apatow family in real life. This guy has it all together.

Well, this is the theme of a lot of the visions we've seen in the opening credits of like vulnerable animals actually becoming like sort of predators, which I think is interesting. And then the predator becoming the prey. So if you think about like Saxon in his sort of like alpha predator mode at the beginning of the season. And then like he's just stumbling around bleary-eyed saying don't take advantage of me inside of this episode. I think that's really interesting and upsetting. And I am very nervous. Can I run one theory by you that I think is interesting? We're at the point in the pod.

We're ready for it. Yeah. Are you ready? Yeah. Okay. It's a shootout. Yeah. Let's say it's not monkeys.

Yeah. Okay. Monkeys fighting over poison smoothies. What if Belinda gets in touch with Interpol? I don't know how, but like calls the authorities on Greg Gary. Yeah. Tim thinks the authorities are there for him. The feds are there for him.

Rick thinks the authorities are there for him because of whatever happens in Bangkok. Yeah. So police comes at least three different rooms think the police is there for them. Yeah. Right. And we have like a Tarantino shootout, basically. And Fabian tells Hollinger's guards to shoot the Interpol Asians because he's like, protect the hotel. Protect the hotel.

That actually, to me, like one thing that I didn't think totally tracked in this episode, But Belinda going to Fabian for help, sure. But like, you can go call the cops on your own, right? She doesn't actually need him to do that for her. So, but like delaying her maybe doing that until we're closer to the events of the family. It took her 18 hours to fucking Google them. Like, it might take her five weeks to call the cops. Yeah.

But I think that supports the Joe's theory because if she delays and it takes her a day or two to work up the courage to do that or she does it next episode. Really good theory, though. I like it. A day and another day or two for. Them to show up. My theory is a theory that's floating around. But I like this idea of the authority shows up. Take credit for it.

I didn't know. I was really impressed. I like the theory that the authorities show up and there's so many different people who could be like, oh, shit. Right. The feds are here. Not to mention like the Russians could be there too. Yeah.

All the expats on the yacht. Oh yeah. The Russians could be like, oh no, the cops are here because we smash and grab the boutique. Well, here's what we have just for next episode. Mm-hmm. The gun. What's going to happen to it? Is it going to stay in the room?

Yes. Is the night on the boat still going? Did it end? What are people going to see each other next day? Yeah. We know we have some sort of Muay Thai fight event. Right. That people are going to go to.

That the fancies are going to. We know that we might have a bunch of the hotel going to. So a bunch of stuff there. So we think Guy talk will spot the robbers there then. We know the fancies. There's going to be some sort of what happened last night. No question. Or could have the valentine leaving her room and the other one sees it.

we could be in secret cad fight mode oh what is it triangle of trust trust triangle's done yeah how is Larry going to find out will she see it will she see the text

she's going to finish scratching her ass yeah see him leave in the morning yeah see him leave we have the brothers phashing out whatever they'll happen with them

we have Belinda versus Greg Gary and then we're in Bangkok And the magic moment with Rick and potentially Sam Rockwell. We've been waiting for God. And potentially Sam Rockwell coming back. We have the Vicky and Tim going to the monastery. The monastery with Piper.

They told her they would go the next day. Oh, I didn't even think about that one. So we have seven things in the air right now. But John, Tim, on the heels of praying to God for guidance, is about to head into a monastery. Like what impact might that have on that? I'm really excited about this. We talked about this earlier, this idea of like, is Rick open to some sort of spiritual awakening?

is Tim open to some sort of as a ritual waking? Yeah, because the therapist was getting to him. Yeah, but like is Tim Ratliff the last person on our list? Well, actually, Saxon's my last, but he was like the second to last person on my list of someone who might have a spiritual awakening at the White Lotus. Is he about to have some sort of moment? So Saxon's your number one least redeemable White Lotus character?

Um, hmm. No. Who's your number one then? Great Gary, who did a murder. Yeah. Yeah. Tanya was pretty annoying, though. I don't know. Can I make the case for Greg Garrett? Sure.

Who's your least redeemable white lettuce character? Well, so if Saxon got violated on the boat, that's a way of... I'm feeling for him right now. Yeah. Yeah. But I mean, both of them were completely fucked up, right? My guess is they're going to wake up in the morning and do the what happened last night. Maybe Lockheed remember a little more. I think Saxon doesn't even remember what happened. he might pretend he doesn't because he's ashamed, but he will remember. There has to be fallout. He's got to remember.

But also Chelsea and Chloe are right there. With the twirling, the twirling evil mustache with her strand of hair. To your point about the predator and the prey, the fact that like, it's not just that Locky became the predator, it's that Saxon handed him all the tools and like has to confront that now. And he, like, Locky has become the person that Saxon wanted him to be. But Saxon is the one who ended up suffering. Well, he needed 12 cocktails and he needed ecstasy and Molly and nine other things.

I don't know if it's going to last. My guess is Locky's going to be completely mortified the next day. I don't think so. I think this is an awakening for him. Really? Yeah. I just think he's on drugs. Grim at Mallory, quite grim.

Not like incest is my thing every single day at the week, but like sexual predation is my thing. I think he's crazy fucked up. going for what I want. Like, people are here to use me. Hopefully not. Or for me to use them. Like, hopefully not. Hopefully he's still like, you know what?

I could go to just NC State after all. I still could make that choice. My thing on this is like, if they go further than this, if we get a challengers or an Itamomata ambien sort of situation, there is no coming. That is with you for the rest of your life. Because those two things you mentioned are not brothers. Right. They're transgressive in their own right.

but it's not two brothers. Very close friends. Yeah. Very close friends. Wow. So what are you most excited about for the last episode or next episode before we go? I'm most excited for Rick and Sam Rockwell in Bangkok doing whatever they're going to do. Magic men.

Let's do Magic Men. But I'm also excited for Fight Night. I think those are my two. Fight Night's a really good call. I think I love a con personally. So whatever that's going to be. And I love Scott Glenn. Yeah, I am really excited about that too.

I just am I think I'm most invest. in the Ratliff storyline at this point. Wow. What happens on the boat? That's what you want to know. Well, and Tim. You're just dying for a monastery tour. I tell you guys, we step back and I tell the two of you, we will see Parker Posey's

Victoria Ratliff enter a monastery in Phuket, Thailand next week. That sounds amazing. That sounds great. And you say I'm prepared for the best hour of TV of my life. Are we going to get to hear her say Fouquet? What's it called? She will for sure say something. She'll have five things with that.

Then she would have to know they were in Thailand in order to say that. How long? Yeah. It's going to be a good one. Can't wait. Prestige TV podcast, Mallory, Joanna. Pleasure, as always. Thanks to everybody behind the scenes.

Don't forget, you can watch this as a video podcast every week on Spotify. And what is it? Ringer Dash TV is our YouTube channel? I hope you guys are wrong about the foursome. I hope we're done. I hope everyone's asleep. We will find out next week. Wrap it up.

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