The Prestige TV Podcast - ‘The White Lotus’ Season 3, Episode 7: Calm Before the Storm

Episode Date: March 31, 2025

Bill, Jo, and Mal attend the fight to recap the seventh episode of ‘The White Lotus’ Season 3. They discuss whether Saxon will experience a spiritual breakthrough, which characters would be the best (and worst) hang, and season-long nitpicks (2:31). Along the way, they talk about Greg’s true intentions and Rick’s terrible con (30:10). Later, they close with a handful of predictions for the season finale (01:06:53). Email us! [e-mail] Subscribe to the Ringer TV YouTube channel here for full episodes of ‘The Prestige TV Podcast’ and so much more! Try Coffee mate Creamers Now: http://coffeemate.com Hosts: Bill Simmons, Joanna Robinson, and Mallory Rubin Producers: Kai Grady and Donnie Beacham Jr. Video Supervision: John Richter Additional Production Support: Justin Sayles Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

This episode of the Prestige TV podcast is brought to you by Coffee Mate. Coffee Mate has been searching the globe for flavors that pair perfectly with coffee. So when they heard that the new season of HBO's The White Lotus was set in Thailand, they were inspired to broop two new flavors, Thai ice coffee and pinia colada flavored creamers. They're available for a short time only. So for the love of coffee, go try them now. What's happening? It's Todd McShay, host of the McShay show at the Ringer and Spotify.

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Yeah. Yeah. We have been here. That's Joanna Rubin. Hello. We've been here every episode. This would be the last time we actually had a chance to prepare for an episode recap. Spoiler.

I know we put these up right after the show, but we actually taped them a few days before. The season finale, we're just going to be right after live. Maybe we go live on YouTube. Who knows? That would be interesting. I mean, if we're going to do it right away, it might as well. Might as well go live. Otherwise, we should watch the episode three times.

I know. I'm going to miss it because I feel like I'm sad. I watched this one three times because I really felt like I was missing stuff. Anyway, this is the, each episode's had a theme that we've talked about top. This was the alcohol and violence episode. Okay. Right? Yeah.

We just start out with like little flashes of movie Thai fighters beating the shit out of each other. And then just kind of go sideways. There's booze and there's violence. sort of a hint of violence. And I know what my favorite part of the show was, but what was your big takeaway, Joanna? Was your favorite part Alexi's girlfriend slapping him in the dick? Or was that your favorite part, Mallory?

I enjoyed the dick slap followed by the kind of just like batting Laurie's head as she fell out of the window the way a cat bats around a toy mouse. Right. That was really remarkable stuff. That was, I think, a real dick slap. Yeah. I was going to do this later, but I don't think that. I think they went method acting on that one.

Sensational stuff. Do you answer your question in seriousness? Do you want to know what's wild? What's true about me coming out of this episode? Yeah. I'm most deeply invested in Saxon Rattliff. I knew it. We got her.

I knew it. I was so prepared today to come in and beg you to join us. I knew it. I'm on the team. And I wasn't even going to say join us on the dark side, because I don't think it is the dark side anymore. I never gave up. I always believed.

We got a really compelling email about how the Buddha before he became... Wow, I'm thrilled right now. No, no, like, listen to this. The Buddha before he came to the Buddha was like a pampered prince who like goes through this sort of debauchrous night and comes out the other side and dedicates his life to spiritualism. Is Saxon Ratliff? It's great. The Buddha of White Lotus season three.

All he needed was mind altering drugs and get jerked off by his brother. And now he's come out the other side. What a family wank. What a great prescription for everyone else. What on itself. Yeah. I felt like maybe we were heading this way in episode seven because I was like, wow, Saxon's a little more sympathetic than I was expecting.

And then they really brought it back. Also just another incredible performance. Patrick Schwarzenegger. I mean, he's been great soulful. Despite what Chelsea would say. Well, now he's just, he's growing a baby soul is what I would say. Yeah, you can't do it in 10 minutes. We learn that from Chelsea, but you can start to do it in 10 minutes.

Well, it's funny that the couple of Saxon and Chelsea are the most interesting combo on the show now. I could spend every single day on them. I'm like, more. Where's this going? And I think the acting is so good on her side. I just like her so much. What happened?

When do we get her next? Amy Lou? Yeah, I don't want to give up on Amy Lou. I need her in my TV life. I need her on another show. My assumption is that Saxon and Chelsea. Oh, interesting. I still don't watch the pit.

She should be a new doctor in the pit. But Saxon and Chelsea will start a vlog after their journey in Thailand and we will be able to watch every day. They're wonderful. The meditation scene between the two of them, while like probably a total of 75 seconds was some of the most riveting TV I've ever seen in my life. Well, those are the tension because like as much as I am rooting for Saxon and his baby soul, I still am a Chelsea Rick Truther personally. And so I've got some, I've got some challenges. Okay. To work through on that front.

I'm struggling. Absolutely. But I did not want them to hook up. But I did enjoy the tension of the will they won't they. Yes. Agreed. I need Chelsea to want more than Rick. I also have been deeply invested in Rick and Chelsea.

More than like fixing him and saving him. Yeah. And more than somebody who never answers her phone calls and always tells her she's fucking annoying. Like she deserves better than that. You're deeply invested in a younger man settling for an older husband. Young woman. That's it.

That's where you landed? You know, among, as you know, I've, believe that among consenting adults age is but a number. You know, that's how I've long felt about it. You know, you mentioned the little glimpses of the Moy's high fights. The way that that was like stitched throughout the episode, these like really charged interstitials and the number of pairs or groups trios throughout this episode who were facing off that theme we have the, we'll talk about obviously the Piper Lockie scene. But the way that that we went into that speech, how everybody has the capacity to kill the nature of violence.

Obviously, our Guy Gai-Gai Talk has some stuff to say about this. But we're first hearing that, even though it's a Piper-Lockey scene, while we're looking at Rick's face. I thought this was a great episode for taking these disparate plots and stitching them together them them them thematically, to your point. And this, like, the prevalence of the con man, the prevalence of desire, the questions of identity, the question of whether you give into that instinct for violence or are afraid of it.

fascinating thematic episode and I liked the kind of hallucinatory dreamlike quality too of the slow-mo and the zooms the close looks at faces as people were reflecting on the choices they were going to make it was like a very moody

penultimate episode can I hit you one more hot take one more hot take before I want to hear what your favorite part of the episode was the Rick storyline yeah it's not satisfying me yeah what happens here

if this is like the crescendo of Rick storyline this is not what I would use Walton Gagins for personally. I've been waiting and sort of reserving hope that we were going to get something sort of big

and that's not what I felt like we got in the Scott Gland confrontation, you know? Yeah. Bill. Okay. Counter. Okay.

Yeah. As soon as they're in Bangkok, and Frank is like, fuck this. Yeah. I'll be sober again tomorrow. Yeah. Let's go party.

I was the most excited I've been for TV in like three years. No, the Let's Go party sequence was great. I'll tell you this, that could have just been its own episode. We could have dumped everyone else in the show and done an episode nine bonus episode of them in Bangkok. Like I said last week. I would have signed up.

Is that ready for a 20 episode season? Make me mad? Have we gotten to the part? No, we haven't nearly gotten in a party yet. I agree. I was so pumped when they did the low going down shot of the strip joint with the cage and them in the room. And I'm like, let's go. I don't care about any characters anymore.

We're smoking pipes. We're snorting lines. A lot going on. And Rockwell. He's been unbelievable every second. I can't say enough. No, Sam was great in this episode. I can't say enough.

Though I still have notes about them as con artists. Wow. I hope more notes than ever because this was frankly an appalling performance. Shoddy. One other aspect of the violence part. Yeah. Because it's all kinds of violence, right? There's actual violence.

There's impending violence. There's verbal. Slaps. There's verbal violence. But then we also. violence, take my blood money or else, right? And kind of whatever Piper was doing to Locky in that scene, that's like almost like emotional violence.

But my favorite kind of violence is three female friends who secretly hate each other. Oh my God. What is it? That was the friendship violence. Thrilla and vanilla of this episode. We were building, we've been waiting since episode one. When are they going to do it? And Carrie Coon, who's just been unleashed.

She's been absolutely unleashed. like Jameer Gibbs and, you know, getting 30 carries in a game. They're just, and then, uh, Laurie. I don't, I don't even know what Jacqueline's doing anymore. She just seems so over it and so angry and. Oh my God. I wrote O brother in Cap's Marks when she said, I'll be the bad guy I'm used to it. I was just like, oh, brother.

She's all like little words as possible and like really shitty faces. And then you have Kate who's like, I'm just not emotionally equipped to do it. Another great Kate episode. And then Carrie Coons, like just riveting, riveting. Incredible. And yet I still wanted to be in Bangkok the entire time with those two guys. Interesting. Like, where are we going next, guys?

I have some more to Bangkok. How many are we bringing back to the whole tower? Oh, four. Great. So you would have spent the entire episode in Bangkok at the, okay, I'm supposed to be your lifelong friend, but you've ruined your sobriety for me. I've led you down this path and I'm just going to sit on a couch and smile. That's where you want the whole episode.

I wanted the whole episode to be Chelsea and Saxon. Same. need a knee before she throws all the books in it. I just wanted to say in that moment forever. That's where you would have spent the whole episode too. Or the three ladies just drinking Rosezee. Where is this from say?

Where is this from? It killed me. It had been maybe 20 seconds. It's great stuff. It's just that Lori looked amazing in this episode. Like all season they've been trying to sort of sell us on Carrie Coon, slightly rumbled mess. But she comes in that like that.

You can only fight that angle for so long. Carkins winning out eventually. We are all Alexi just waiting to compliment Laurie's incredible hair and then saying PayPal. Zelp? Well, his muzzle is relaxed. Cash up. I was actually quite nervous because when he started that, that Nigerian prince move on her, he had his hand on the top of her head.

And I was like, is this going to go somewhere terrifying? But I just went Lori sort of bare-ass. went her way out the window. The bear has to escape of the window. I liked when she joined them at the fight and the Russians showed up and she just took the guy's beer. Yeah.

And just started swinging it. Lori just feeling herself. Yeah. Lori easily best hang on the show. Yeah. No question. Who are you hanging out with? Chelsea.

Who's a safe for best? She's a good hang except every three minutes. She's like, I need you to leave so I can call Rick, who won't answer my call, which I think gets a little old. Honestly, I do love Chelsea, but that's a little. tough. If that's the,

it just really feels to me and I know. Chloe, I know that this is like a mansion, a soft romantic, whatever, but like I really feel like Rick is just going through

something specific. If it's always like this, yeah, that's terrible. If Rick is like having a crisis of his soul and he can go one way or another and Chelsea's like,

I need to keep this tether or else I'm going to lose him, then I understand. But yeah, if it's always like that, then it's not great. This is a, a game. Good hang, bad hang? Yeah.

I mean... Worst hang. Tim. Tim is a nightmare. Tim has like moved past fun. Tim, what's wrong? No, nothing. No, no, no. I'm fine. The like, bawling head and she was sitting next to Gary. He was just like swing.

He's like fucking looking at the Blair Witchwall. All he says, he's been like, I need someone in the family to ask to really sit him down and be like, what the fuck is going on with you once again? Saxon. Saxon. The hero we needed. A man of character and quality. I will say we got, now he was entirely motivated by self-interest, but still, he asked if his dad was okay. We got a great email from listener, David, who was pointing out the fact that, like, Tim has just been walking, swaying around, stumbling around.

Yeah. With a full bottle or a half bottle of LaRas Panna's pocket. It would just be ratlin. Ratlin Tim is like what he would be that whole. That's a really good point. Ratlin Tim is a great. Also, you only brought. Ratlin Tim Ratliff?

Yeah. I love it. You only brought one sleeping t-shirt on the trip? You're just going to wear that Duke shirt every night for 10 hours a day? Or he brought five. Duke T-shirts. Oh, that's possible. That is possible. He does love Duke. That seems right. That seems right. But we would have like we would have the Duke blue in the mix. Yeah, bring a couple ones.

We just have a all gray t-shirts. So maybe we would, honestly, with Tim Ratliff. Though I don't know. He has a lot of pastels in his wardrobe typically. I'm surprised Mike White that had thrown the Duke lacrosse t-shirt at some point and just keep at double-y- Or the later. That would have been just very white lotus. Yeah. Like just just a lot of Duke sense. When will we be talking about Saxon's wardrobe in this episode, which to me was just totally like madman by way of Todd Snyder. I loved it. I thought it was wonderful.

Have you been served any Saxon shirts on Instagram ads? I have to be honest. I shop it Todd Snyder pretty regularly. I don't actually know that that shirt is from there, but it would be, I wouldn't know if I had been served a new ad unlike for Lockhees' wardrobe, which I'm still disturbed by.

All right, here we go. I'm going to make Joanna mad with at least one of these. Special thing. You guys didn't know I was doing this. Great. We love that so much. episodes, we've watched these episodes a bunch of times each. I have some nitpicks after seven episodes.

Okay, hit us. We're going to start coming strong with the nitpicks. Great. Number one, no particular order. Okay. You won't get bad at this one. The movie Thai footage is just not that good. I agree.

I didn't like how it was shot. I think he should have hired like somebody who filmed sports for a living. Sports are? Yeah. Sports are? If they'd come to the sports, the sports helper, I would have said, go find like the guys who do 24-7 for HBO or something. I didn't mind the sort of like, leading up to the fight that sort of like balletic interlude with the like warming up orchestra

and something like that. But once you're at the fight. Yes. Yeah. You were so excited for sports. I wanted some wide shots. I wanted to see the guys circle each other. Yeah.

Like there was, I thought they left too much at the table. All right, there's one. Okay. Number two. Now this one might make join med. Okay. I've felt this way deep down for a couple episodes. And now I'm just going to come out and say it.

Do you want to guess before he said it? I don't think Jason Isaac's, I don't think it's that hard of a part. Yeah. And I think he's fucking boring. You know what? This is the episode where I agree with you. Yeah. Oh, great.

This is the episode where we're just like one more. He's an autopilot. We did not modulate anything inside of this episode. It's not like I think he's doing a bad job. I'm just sort of like you need to give me something more of I'm having a dream sequence where I'm going to kill myself and my family. I just think if you're going to, not that I'm going to give the great Mike White any notes, but I just think he'd be more manic and the part's more far enough.

He's like all the sudden super hyper. What are we doing today and like trying to overcompensate? And then he goes back to being... Can I say, here's my bigger knit to pick. Yeah. Do you think we have a six-episode story and an eight episode back? I think it's a great point. I think...

It could be a seven episode. Right, because last season was... So season one was six, season two was seven, this is eight. And now we have four... The last four episodes have been two days, right? We did the day and the night. I just... We've solved Tim Ratliff two episodes ago.

His career fell apart, and his family's going to be disappointed. he might kill himself. That's like two scenes. Or if something else happens, if again, like he doesn't wind up being in trouble or whatever, it's just been too long

in this sort of... Yeah. Yeah, I agree. I loved the monastery scene last week. I thought that was really, really good. I really love that. But this week,

I'm just like, you're giving me nothing else. When Saxon confronts him, and he just once again gives him the like, we're fine kid response. I'm like, you're not going to give me

any movement on this guy? It's interesting. I mean, I wonder if there's like, the tracking the distinction across generations in White Lotus has always been kind of fascinating.

And the Ratliff kids in ways both good and bad have all really been characters on an arc, right? They have all gone, they have all gone through some really notable change and reflection and introspection. We, I think, were most swept up by Tim's arc in the first few episodes and now have felt the halting of that,

the arrested development of that a little bit. And Vicki never had that, kind of by design, right? But so, like, something is, I think the fact that we've moved so much with the kids has made that actually feel more palpably lacking over the last couple episodes with the parents, which is interesting, just inside of that family unit. Is this show better if Rick had just brought Tim with him to Bangkok with Frank to pretend to be the DP?

I'm just trying to think of a way to make Tim more interesting other than just having no personality. Like, who would see Tim in a party and be like, yo, man, pull up a chair? I mean, I'm going to go have a drink. I guess. I don't know. I don't have a drink with the super sad brooding guy over there who's just hammered at all times. Okay, you didn't succeed in making me mad. What else you got?

This one will. Okay. Bring it. Among the most boring scenes in the history of HBO, the moot guide talk scenes. I've had it. I can't do it anymore. You know what? I agree.

Interesting. Whoa! Yeah. Because again, we're just drawing out and we're heading towards what feels like the inevitable conclusion, which is something that Mallory clocked really early on, which is the idea that like perhaps Guy Talk is involved in this gun fight

in order because Mook and I don't like I don't like the way these characters feel so one dimensional to me it's like he is in love with her but is shy and retiring and she is

wants ambition ambition and violence I guess I'll go further why the hell is she attracted him in the first place because everything we found out with her about her

in the seventh episode is kind of like the danger well he's mentioned be men. Men should be ambitious and fight. An objectively attractive person. Yeah, but spend two minutes of them and it's like, this guy's a softy.

Here's an objectively attractive person I've been friends with my whole life and I see him wanting more because that's sort of the indication that he gave her. Maybe I can get my hot friend in the exciting package that I've always wanted a twofer. Why not? I think she, more likely, she's with like one of one of Citella's bodyguards. I'm sure that's where it's like. That's like her

It's clearly her type. Yeah. I think that's another interesting thing about this season where, like, Saxon has been so genuinely interesting to watch because he is routinely being confronted by people who are not a part of his life. Now, broadly, the premise of White Lotus is, as we've talked about many times, you could escape your whatever's back home, but you can't escape yourself. And often you can't escape your family or your best friends or whomever you're on vacation

with. but scene to scene he literally does, right? He's with Chelsea, he's with Chloe. Momentumably, he's with Lockland. But, you know, Moot and Gai Tocke have known each other their entire lives. So it makes, like, on the one hand, this idea that he finally musters the courage to tell her how he feels really interesting. But on the other hand, like, the conversation in this episode where he's like, you know, I just like never. I would never feel good about doing that.

You kind of like wonder why they never would have talked about that. It's not only that. I just don't feel like I learned anything new about their characters this week, about Rick this week, honestly. Like, the Rick, on the bottom of my notes, I have, what's not working? And I wrote Guy Talk and MOOC. And I wrote Rick because not just that we were headed towards a conclusion that we kind of saw coming because we saw incest coming. Like, it doesn't matter if we see it coming. it's about how it's executed.

And it wasn't executed in a way where I feel like I'm like, yeah, it was a little flawed. Wow, that character really went through something. Can I, can I zag on Rick? Please. Because maybe I interpreted it differently because I actually really like that whole scene. Yeah. Tell me.

I might be wrong. But to me, it was about when you build something up in your head for years and years and years about how it's going to play out when it happens. And this becomes part of your identity in life. Yes. And then he goes and it's like he goes there. Scott Gwent's this old. frail.

Right, what she says. Kind of near the end of his, what she says, near the end of his life, has this moment, doesn't even, doesn't even want to hit him because it's like,

I don't win if I do this, so shoves him out, they leave. And that thing in the end where he's sitting this thing, to me, I interpreted that as, I was haunted by this thing

for 20 years, turned out, whatever, and now where am I going? And kind of where I'm going is I think I'm just going to be a huge fuck up. That's so interesting. I think it's slightly different.

Okay, totally. But mostly the same. Like, I think you're, I share your interpretation of that scene. Scott Glenn hits him with the Dundraper. I don't think about you at all. You know, like that, that's how that all goes down. He leaves. He goes out with Frank.

They party. He's, you see him in that scene. You see Chelsea calling him and calling him and getting nothing. And if you're Mallory at home, you're like, oh my God, come on. Sex is right there. And then you see him get in the elevator. and like surrounded by topless women, all the stars. Could it be happier.

Like he's like... But I kind of think the smile on his face is like, I don't need this anymore. Honestly, and we'll see what it goes in the finale. But I think that smile on his face is like he's been drinking all night. He's been with them. But I don't think he's going to have sex with any of those women. I don't think he's going to smoke anything out of a pipe the way that, like, Frank is. Like, I don't think he's going to snort anything.

I think he's just sort of like, I drank a bunch of whiskey. I saw Bangkok. I'm going to go back to Chelsea. and we're going to have a great life together. Interesting, because he doesn't call or reach out to her, which makes me think the opposite. I think they're kind of trying to fake you out with that last shot. Oh, right.

Possible. I mean, we'll see. I found myself wondering when Frank asked him, like, okay, so you got closure? And he's like, yeah. Yeah. Like, did he, though? Because he didn't, it just feels learn anything.

Isn't that the whole point? It's like, sometimes you just don't get closure. But this is, sure. Yeah, yeah. You'd be like, man, someday I'm going to, and then you have the. But if this were the defining truth of your life, like this quest and the absence of this thing. But maybe he realized that it shouldn't have been and that he was being stupid the whole time.

For sure. Yeah. Well, I don't think he felt he was being stupid. I think he felt validated in his obsession. And then like, well, it'll be interesting to see like you said what he says to Chelsea about it next week. That's probably the real tell. I mean, obviously it was we all wanted him to not use the gun to. pull away. I was, I was

I was excited for the gun. I was excited for it. I also wanted... Kill that guy. I wanted Jim to be like... Because he's like, Gloria, like he obviously knows who he's talking about. I wanted him to be like...

Does he? So you're... Say something, like to actually say something? I agree with him. I rewere one that seen multiple times and I'm like, what is Scott Glenn trying to communicate in that line read of Gloria Hatchet?

Is it like I know who she is or I don't know who the fuck you're talking about. I actually don't have a clear read on that. I interpret it as I remember the name. Yeah. Yeah. This is why you're here? Yeah. Almost like somebody in consulcher that passed through his life. Another follow-up question? Yeah. I don't think I needed that scene to just have like

two more exchanges. Yeah. And then I agree with you that it's just sort of like, oh, I built this up and it was nothing. I think that is like a good story to tell and one I wouldn't mind watching. But there was just something in that scene that just sort of like, yeah. But maybe to your point, that's how I'm supposed to feel. just sort of like deflated by it, you know. You know it was great about that scene. All the cuts to Cetela and Frank slash Steve watching her movie.

That was incredible. I love a pin that reference. You should just put that whole thing on YouTube, first of all. Remarkable. But Scott Glenn's office was just absolutely. Whole house was cool. Fantastic. Whole house was cool.

I was like, oh my God. I was looking at every like every shelf he did on the table choices. That was like a man's man office. Dark, dark glossy. I was like, I checked every box. Were you looking at every photo of a young Jim Hollinger, waiting for Rick to say, is that great, Gary, in a cowboy? Yes.

It looks a lot like me. I actually thought they were headed that way. I was surprised they didn't do that. But then I was also enjoying the Scott Glenn career retrospective photos where it's like, oh, they grabbed something from urban cowboy. A hundred percent urban cowboy. Can I take you quickly to a white people Buddhism corner? You could do that right after this.

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So in that exchange, Rick says the secret in life is knowing when to stop. Someone once said, the secret in life is knowing when to stop. The person who said that is Alan Watts, famous white guy Buddhist. And I grew up in Mill Valley, California, which is like Mecca for white people who have found Buddhism. And that's where Alan Watts, like, lived his life near Green Gouldch Farm at the Druid Heights. Like, this is a guy, this is like a Bay Area. I have brought Buddhism to the white people guy.

He wrote The Way of Zen, 1957 was like this huge book. But he was a hugely controversial figure because, like, you know, a lot. Plenty of people are like, thank you for bringing Buddhism to us. And plenty of people were like, is this the guy we want to be listening to about Buddhism? And I just want to one last biological fact about Alan Watts, who I guess famously said, the secret in life is knowing when to stop. he married three times, had seven children,

and died of alcoholism. So that does not sound to me like a guy who knows when to stop personally. I loved all that information, but I think you should have said Buddhism. I just said,

Buddhism. Okay, let me take it again and say, but it, no, I'm just kidding. I have two more small nipics. Please. I'm so disappointed. I couldn't.

Anger me? Yeah. Is all he want in life? I was excited for a little tension. I don't think anybody would have not had their phone for this one. But, okay. It's five rat lifts. I just think.

But why does everyone else get to keep their phones? Pam's the only stickler? Chelsea's got her phone. She's calling Rick all the time. I just think it's like, I'm texting Lori. Like, they all have their phones except the ratlifts. I think it's so we don't know that he's off the hook. But then that's kind of.

I just think dad is such a mess at this point that they're like, I'm going to, dad doesn't talk to. less than three days. I'm going to go get my phone. Yeah. Or if you're Saxon and your dad is acting like a complete maniac like this, you're not going to be like, I got to get my phone. Like he's got to be hiding something for me. I just think you'd be more cunning about it than they are. I agree. My last one. Yep. It's a big one. I can't wait for your take. I just don't think the three fancy cougars would have stayed in touch.

At period, at all. I don't think they're in touch anymore. I think it's like some occasional texting and maybe a Happy birthday. Let me take you to my favorite corner, which is I listen to an interview corner. Oh, I was waiting. Leslie Bibb said that she feels like Kate is the person who has, like, kept this group together. Makes sense. And that Lori and Jacqueline don't really talk to each other, but she talks to Lori and she talks to Jacqueline.

And then it was like, even though Jacqueline's the one paying for this trip, it was sort of like Kate's idea of like, let's all get together and go on a trip, a girl's trip, a girl's trip, a victory. tour together as part of her perfectionism, perfect wife, perfect mom. I've got. My perfect friends from her back home. That kind of makes sense to me. My takeaway after seven episodes now? Yep. I don't think Jacqueline and Lori have talked on the phone probably in three and a half,

four years. I agree. And I think they maybe text every once in a while. I think that's clear. But the way they set it up in the first episode, it seemed like they were way closer. I've been thinking a lot about like the boat ride, you know, we get the boat ride here and then the boat right back. And the boat right here in the opening episode, again, like Mike White called them the blonde blob. They're like a three-headed sort of giggling and like

as close as can be. And can't you just see them going, if they all make it, going back home, each sitting on like a different part of the ship. And they're like never. And that's how this says. They're like never going to talk to each other again. Or perhaps more depressing than that, not doing that. Because that would actually be the. the healthy thing. Oh, like, faking it? Yeah. Continuing to, like, engage in this shared delusion that they have something to hold on to.

Like, that would be, I think, more tragic, right? Here's what I... We have to keep telling each other. We're committed to this friendship. I mean... Is that rosé? Boy, that rosé looked good when it came. Beautiful hue.

Of a large, frosty glass of rosé, delightful. Can we have that for the finale? Yeah. It's Mike Weich is, he knows how to play the hits. I agree. This group is clearly starting it out with Rose. Right. No, no question.

Can I hit you with my... Biggest nitpick? No, hottest take. Well, maybe it's a nitpick. Okay. I also don't think the Belinda story has been interesting. You've been saying this all season. It's still...

I didn't want to go there anymore. It's still falling flat for me. But what I do suspect, I think she's going to take that money. For Zion? Because he's like, do this? And for Pornra, who's like, let's start a spa together. I mean, I think. she's taking that money. I agree.

But if I were, if I remember Linda, I'm holding out more than $100,000. You have seen the house now. You've way more than a house. That's a first offer. Yeah. I mean, it better be. For $250, maybe I won't tell anyone. You don't say yes for a cent less than a million. Are you kidding? Okay. But you saw that house. Tanya was, Tanya was canonically worth half a billion dollars. I would say 500,000. That's what I'd say. Half a mill. She counters at a million. Maybe she settles. at 500. But you also don't want to get caught or you want to do it as seamlessly as possible.

He's managed to evade detection for two years. That's another one of my small nitpicks was how did he escape with this much money? Yeah. Because if the authorities, how much money to Jennifer Coolidge have? A ton. $500 million. But if the authorities are looking for him, can't they just follow the money? Right.

Wouldn't they be able to find him with the money trail? For the amount of money he apparently has that he could buy a house like that and live whatever and have a whole staff and a yacht and all that stuff. I feel like that's a lot of red flags all over the place for whoever. And then all of his crew died, right? So maybe it would be no trace to him? Well, they were like, I don't know that they had any real connection to him other than his history with Quentin.

Are you ready for me to slightly zag on Greg Gary? You're into it? I'm not into it. Your favorite character is Saxon. Your second favorite is Greg Barry. I'm just saying, do we think he's actually a killer? because... Yes.

Yes. Everything went badly with Tanya. But I don't think he has it in him to kill Belinda. And now we know that he just wants to watch Saxon. And I actually believe that story. I can't wait to talk about that. I can't wait to talk about something. We were like, oh, is he going to try to kill Saxon?

Who is he trying to kill Belinda? No, he wants to watch Saxon have sex with Chloe. And he wants to pay Belinda off. I think that he would, if it came down to it, have not a nary a qualm about ending Belinda's life, I believe that he sincerely does not want to complicate his life. He doesn't want the mess. He doesn't want a body on his doorstep. A doorstep, he genuinely hopes he never has to leave. Once again, I just think, I just think bathing him in red light. Baving him in red light and having him glower down at her feels like a little like Mike White heavy-handed. I'm going to switch the flip, flip the switch on this. You know what I mean?

Yeah. We'll see. Yeah. Start of the episode We start out with Rick and Frank Meet Sita La. Yeah. Her husband. Crushed it. The head monk.

What's that guy's name? Do we know yet? Yeah. Head guy. Yeah. No. Luong Portera. He's preaching its violence.

Spiritual harm to the victim and the perpetrator. This was great. I love this. The Yoda. Have you? So we literally get violence, aggression, anger, stem from the same source. Fear.

Bill, have you ever heard the fear is the path to the dark side. Remember last week we invoked Star Wars? I mean, this is it, right? Fear is the path to the dark side. Fear anger leads to hate, hate leads to suffering. George Lucas took all of this from Eastern religion. You really feel it here. How did you feel about when he says

fear and then we go on Guy Toc's face? Yes, I like that we got, every one of us has the capacity to kill Rick's face. Fear, Guy Toc's face and the violence has spiritual harm to the victim and perpetrator. Tim Poppin Pills. Like all of mixed in over that sequence. Wonderful. Sit with your feelings.

Not everybody can sit with their feelings. Can you sit with your feelings? Only if I'm in an airplane and the Wi-Fi's out. Hell. Hell is a flight with no Wi-Fi. If you're raw dog and a flight, you can sit with your feelings.

You don't just like listen to like, you don't have like anything downloaded already for the flight. I down on iPod with books. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Some stuff. Saxon convinces parents to go to a party with the boat people. Just astonishing stuff. I'm already dolled up.

Uh, Blund and Zion debate going to Greg Garrier's party. And the fancies go to dinner so they can just hate each other's guts. So that's how we started. Uh-huh. All right. We'll talk Frank and Rick first. So this is so ridiculous that they're doing this like...

Their shit con. But I actually loved the enforcer, the executor, the notary. That's a trilogy. That was so fucking funny. Was that inspired by the accountant, you think? I think so. It's a fun... The accountant part too.

What's your movie? It's a fun. It's a thriller. There's killings. There's double crossings and action. It's just like every genre that exists. If I'm Frank, Frank is a better person than I am.

Because Frank comes out of there and he's like, let's paint the town red. I'd be like, dude, fuck you. Fuck you for giving me no prep whatsoever. What if you were down in the boat? What if they'd be like, hey, here are four titles that she did. Give her 50 minutes. Here's what I told her about what the movie was about.

And Rick had the launch, right, where he was, He should be prepared for these questions because she asked him questions that he was not prepared. It's almost like Rick's not competent. And then Rick was just sitting there staring down Jim Hollinger. I was so, I was so aggravated. What do you think Rick did for a living? Con man.

This and that, as Gary would say. He can't have survived this long on those shoddy, shoddy con skills. He's a terrible con man, though. He's so bad. I think they were both pretty bad. I think they had enough money to go to the White Lotus. There was a reason that Frank was like, I had to leave America and Rick is like, I can't go back to Australia. They're bad.

this clearly wait do you guys have an updated theory for what show jacqueline is on because jim and cita la were we're like yeah you know this actress it's always been cbs so it's something they watch something blue bloodsish wasn't ctelah said at the beginning she's like my husband and i she's right that he's like we know it's a blue blood's type show we know from this exchange now that jim is only watching stuff that ctola watches right he does that he's not the one who brought them to that does that any other no same thing it's cbs it's probably 10 o'clock okay yeah she's either she's either detective or she's married to the sergeant. Or she's a doctor.

Oh, she's a doctor. Right. She's a surgeon. Yeah, it's a surgeon. Yeah, it's one of those. Like Ellen Pompeo type of. Yeah. Oh, I like that.

That's good. Could be. I feel like they would have mentioned it if it was a doctor show. And by the way, Mike, wait, fuck you. This could have been a good scene. Why couldn't even read with Jacqueline shows? He didn't want to tell us.

He deliberately didn't want to tell us. Why couldn't we've seen it on the TV and like, for this reason right now. Sarah Marshall, where they show a quip of the procedural. So that we could be debating it right now. Just like we're debating why Rick couldn't tell Frank slash Steve. Or, by the way, remember his cover name? I mean, that is just fucking shameful, embarrassing shit from Rick.

But also, why does he have a cover name? I don't, right. Exactly. Nobody knows who even Frank is. The best part was the prostitute part. Yeah. Right. No, no, no, no.

You're madame. Don't come up with the movies you directed. Don't actually get any titles for the film. she's been in. But if you're going to share one thing, say, by the way, I told her that we're coming to their house because you're interested in basing the character of her. So if you're going to offer up anything, maybe don't say that she's a prostitute who became a madame. And if you're Jim Hollinger and you're not like actively senile, why are you going to a second location with this guy who's just been staring holes in you and is clearly there not to put your wife in a movie? Let's go to the

den alone without any of my security. Watching it, I was interpreted it as we're going to find out Rick's son. Yeah. And then they didn't do that at all. And it just seemed like... Do you guys think that's off the table for the finale? I think that could still happen. Well, they didn't have one moment when he chugged the drink.

And Scott Glenn's like my kind of guy. Like my kind of drinker. Yeah. And I think they picked young photos of Scott Glenn that look like Walton Baggins. I don't think it's off the table, but I would be surprised if we got more of this in the finale. Then again, it's a 90-minute finale. And Rick is presumably going back to their... Yeah.

Well, their property. Okay, save it for predictions. Because, yeah, the bodyguards have to pursue, but are they pursuing to kill him? Or to say... He saw one movie. You were royalty or something like a queen. And she's like, yeah. That was great.

Scott Quinn says, after we take it to the den, this is a great country, not a lot of red tape. If you want to cut it, you have lots of options. Yeah. Interesting. Did you guys think that Frank slash Steve was going to maybe try to fuck Cetilla? He's like, give him three more whiskeys. And I'm sure he would have. Also, when the drinks are delivered and he's like, what's your name?

You're lovely. Eye on the prize, Frank Steve. Eye on the prize. I've always been partial to the actors who order a drink who are falling off the wagon, calling the waitress or the bartender, Darling. Oh. I'll take another one, darling. Okay.

Yeah, I'm just not cool enough to ever do that. I'm falling off the wagon. Darling's good. Darling, my favorite darling is like when a waitress is, when a waitress is, calls you darling. Oh. That's... Darling either way is great.

Darling is good. I fantasized about this moment a thousand times. You ruin my fucking life. Can't do a quick exit. Some nitpicks on the quick exit. I think one bodyguard goes to the house and the other one is probably like, why are these fucking guys high-tharing it out of here? I hope that Rick tells Mook that those bodyguards are absolutely inept.

And not any better than guide talk, honestly, at their jobs. They're like the Austin Powers bodyguards, like just falling into a boat. Oil vat. One thing before we get to their not-so-hasty escape is when Scott Glens, Jim Hollinger, says, I'm more careful, I have more to lose. I was sort of hoping, though I don't feel like I really saw it. I was sort of hoping I would see Rick absorb that and think about Chelsea and say, I have something to lose in this moment.

I can't just, like, shoot this guy or whatever because it puts at risk a precious thing that I have, which is Amy Lou Wood our favorite, you know? I think particularly in this season where for, okay, for Jim Hollinger, this has been a source of clarity and perspective. But for someone like Tim Ratliff, that is like an anchor pulling him ever deeper into the abyss, right? All of the things that he fears to lose. So like characters respond to that idea differently, which I think would have made an even more compelling to see Rick really like interrogate it. But also what are we talking about when we talk about things to lose?

Are we talking about material things and stature? Are we talking about relationships? Family respect, yeah. For Tim, like it. It's kind of everything right now, right? Like the way that now he has Saxon on top of Vicky saying like I've got, I basically have nothing. Are we sure Rick didn't come to the conclusion that maybe he doesn't need to be with Chelsea

or shouldn't be? He could. I mean, so I'm just trying to hold on to the Saxon and Chelsea on the boat together. Okay. This is where we're going to be divided and fight. This is our tension. I will be a Rick and Chelsea truther. And you can vote for Chelsea and Saxon.

They have a Ying-yang relationship. Yeah. She's hoping he's pain. Something's going to win. Quite a combo. Well, anyway, they somehow get away. All right, move to the fancies. Okay. How'd you feel about Fabien's performance?

Astonishing stuff. Home is cold and dirty, but it's still at home. What singer is he channeling with some of those? Well, he was a soothing tune. He was in a show called Babylon, Berlin, where he sang a lot. And so I think, I feel like my white was like sort of similar. tapping into it. Sort of similar to Rick and Frank being like,

and you get to sing. Would you like to be a White Lotus? You get to sing. So we get some info when Carrie Coon officially just gets mad. And what Jackie's trying to be like, can we just move on and Carrie Coon won't let it go? And then she says to Kate, was it a big deal when she did the same thing with Dave?

Uh-huh. So what do we think happened? So Kate, because it was like 15 years ago, but it's longer than that because Kate's got kids or maybe it wasn't. So we're saying Kate got married 15 years ago. It was Lori's wedding. Or Lori got married 15 years ago.

And Kate was there with her husband and Jackie was hitting on the husband. Or they were dating or whatever. But yeah. I believe the gentleman did that. This is again. I believe it. I don't know if that one's recoverable. Well, I mean, Kate moved on.

She said wait one. And then, yeah, just like one more thing. But this is again like we talked about last week. your friend hit on Adam that time. You know, he's a handsome guy. Just had him in the corner talking Marvel and then he just all of a sudden you're like, what's going on with those? The thing is, I know that's never happened simply because in the decade plus we've been together,

he's never left our home. I like when Adam takes strays. He's the math. But you haven't lived here home either. No, I know. Just to be here with you too. This is that memetic desire idea again. Like every

season, here it is. I'm interested in why Mike White is so interested in this in my group. He, I think Jacqueline is the biggest monster in the show. She, once again,

for what Mike Wright's trying to do. Greg Gary, like, I really do feel like they're, but in terms of like emotional damage. Greg Gary, whatever. He killed one wife. Jacqueline is just

a serial, a serial, relationship abuser. I would just like to keep it all in perspective while also not defending Jacqueline in any way. But it's clearly Mike White's work at some stuff out with this Jacqueline character would be my take.

I thought that this was like a fascinating fancy cooogs episode for so many reasons, but one of which is, and it's not the first time this season, but like, there's just no accountability or self-awareness from any of them, honestly, including Laurie, who we love.

Like, that's actually what's interesting about it is that Jacqueline, I agree, is a bad friend and seemingly a monstrous person who will justify her own behavior to herself in anyway she can. But when she has like the complete conviction to say to Lari, like you kind of just keep fucking up your own life. There's a part of you when you're watching that that's like,

oh, I wonder if she's on to something. And then we see Lari in this situation at the end of the episode where she's like, I think that everything everyone at the table said was true. Exactly. If you're not happy with your own life, change it. Yeah. Yeah. And so I think there's balance then.

Like, Jacqueline is terrible, but she's not wrong. And Laurie is someone we've rooted for, but she's behaving poorly. They are. That's been true all season. As they gossip about each other, it's all shitty and it's also all true. Yeah. And it's just like at a fever pitch in this scene. Not a nice person.

No. She's doing something here that I found very, I don't have a Jacqueline Lemon specifically in my life, but just I found this very recognizable, the person who, 100% just basically believes their own hype and their own lies and their own bullshit. You're lucky to be in my orbit and I'm always right. Yeah.

Like she just genuinely has convinced herself that everything about the way that she has conducted herself is like completely fine. And they're lucky to be in her orbit. My projection going around at that table. My wife pointed this out during episode seven. They, and I think it's intentional, made Michelle Monaghan not look as good in episode seven

as she looked in previous episodes, but Carrie Coon's character looked better. Yeah. And I feel like it's... Carrie Coon's hair was sleeker. The red dress looked amazing. Michelle Monaghan looks like a mess by the end of this episode. Well, she's still...

I mean, though. But she's wearing, like, boxers in a robe. You know, like, it's slightly more Lori outfit than she's been. Lori, right. She looks more normal. But I thought that was notable. Yeah, I agree. Because Michelle Monaghan was starting to get that Faye Dunaway, Mommy Dearest kind of

look to her by the end of this episode. You know what else she did that I fucking hate when people do? Is like she started the ship and then she's acting like the calm one. She's doing the like, why do you get in so heated about? I was like fucking hate when people. Lori's like you did something shitty and I'm the problem. I loved when you and he was like, you're not mad about Valentine. And you could have hooked up with Valentine?

He said, no, I'm mad about Jacqueline. Could hooked up with Valentine, chose to marry Brian, chose to take that shitty job or she's not a partner. Tough one for Brian. You always choose the short stick. is that bad luck or are you life's victim? Are you doing it to yourself? Incredibly fucked up. Really, really.

Really pointed. Jesus. Later, Kate, saying, I feel bad, but I guess you don't. Great stuff. Great stuff. So then Laura's responses, you're always fake in front and that your life is perfect. And you're vain and selfish. Yeah, yeah.

All true. Yeah. And then she goes to the fight. Great Gary. I also loved her fight, like her fight look. They're like stripy pants and the, and the. And the T-shirt. Huge, huge winner

this episode. Yeah, looks great. Greg Gary's party. Uh-huh. Vicky comes in. It's a cult. Chelsea and Saxon, that's going to be you in 30 years.

Not a nice thing. Why are you so mean to me? Saxon, a heart. Oh, yeah. His baby soul is growing. It's growing. Why are you being so mean to me?

Yeah. Right here, I'm a human being like you. I got jerked off by my brother two days ago. I'm going through some stuff. Schwarzener gave a great interview on the official pod where he

He was talking about how, like, the logline for his character was Southern Finance Bro who likes to flirt. And then Mike White's like, we need to really make sure that people don't hate this guy. Like, he needs to be, like, enjoyable to watch. Not a worry, Mike. Yeah, right. Mike, we were on board the whole time. But that also, like, that because Saxon's on this arc of change, this growth arc inside of the season, that he kept trying to, like, rush that. And Mike White's like, no, we've only been here a few days.

Yeah. Like we want a realistic, this is just a few days of growth for Saxon. So we still have miles to go and piles of books to read and stuff like that. We've got some incest that we've got to sprinkle in. But like we're on a very like slow growth journey. And yeah, putting him, making him vulnerable, making him all these other things has, yes, engaged my interests. What did you guys think of in that conversation? In that conversation, because Saxon kind of volley's back, right?

And he's like, well, you know, you're dating this old bald dude a bunch of money. any house that any different. Another shot at Gaggins' hair. Gaggans' his hair is a big loser this season. It looks great. But it has come up quite a bit. You're right. What did you think of Chelsea's saying?

Because she's like, that's not the reason I'm with him. And Saxon asks what the appeal is. And she says, the first day we met, he told me his whole life story. And I just knew we were meant to be the other. Now, we know that that is not true. Very key parts of his life story. Yeah. Because in this season of television, which means mere days ago in their three-year relationship,

He told her the most important thing about his life. So is this a lie she's telling herself that I know this person? Yes. Or is it... She sees the good in him for whatever is it. Yeah. But if she just wants to fix him, it's a ying-yang battle now.

And he's like, fix me. Could be another ying yang battle for it. There's a limit. Ride or die. There's a limit. I hope Saxon goes home and finds his own Chelsea. I want that for him. Yes.

But he can't take Rick's Chelsea. That's how I feel about that. If she's home, Hope, and Rick is pain, and eventually one of them will win. I think we're going to find out the winner in episode eight. Yeah, it's got to be hope. I sure hope so. Saxon talks to Dad for an answer. Everything's fine.

I found that scene completely heartbreaking as a Saxon. I don't have anything else but this. I put my whole life in your basket. Yeah. If I'm not a success, then I'm nothing. Now, interestingly, we've heard, the other character who we've heard say, like, I'm nothing is Rick. But he was kind of saying it, I think it was episode three to Amrita, right? Like as like almost an embrace.

We had a really interesting email from a listener who was talking about the way in which Westerners, when they try to embrace Buddhism, that they're set the American specifically idea of like the individual and how important the individual is. And then as we as we learned in last week's episode, we are but a mere drop of water in a large ocean and we will return to that. to that ocean. It's counter to that idea of individualism and how a lot of Westerners ingest that idea the wrong way and don't really take it to mean what it's supposed to mean. And so I think this idea that, like, Saxon is like, I'm nothing. I'm nothing. But that's actually like a step in the right direction. And when he says, I could be someone else if I want it to Chelsea, like this is a step in the right direction. That was great. And it's like, No blender this episode for him, though.

Oh, I am more concerned than I've ever been about the poison fruit. Here's my trait to you. It's from our listener, Ben. I'm calling this section, will it blend? And he says the fruit in question. The cerebral mangous, it looks like a mango, but inside it is not fleshy like a mango. It's corky inside. Like cork, it floats.

It is indeed called the suicide tree all the way to the South Pacific. What is poisonous is the white latex, which comes out when you score. slice the outer skin. There's certainly no way to blend the fruit. Could you, like, grate it, peel it? I feel like Tim Rattel have ended the episode

looking for the gun and not finding it, and now he's going to find a way to make up poison smoothie for the entire family. For the first time, I'm out on the blender theory. Are you officially out on the monkeys as well?

No, I'm always holding on hope for the monkeys. Couldn't Mike White just pretend that the third thing doesn't exist? He definitely could. How would we know? Unless it's like your... No question. Crazy reader on chat GPT.

Can I do one more quick fact check only because I've gotten ceaseless emails about this? Charlotte Bonn is not Simon LeBond's daughter. Oh. So was it CR who lied to you? Was it C.R. who lied to you? Who lied to you about that? Yeah. That sounds like CR's work.

Yeah, it was CR. Yeah. Sounds like CR's work, but we don't know for sure. I'm so disappointed. What did you think about the meta? You know, I'll always be seen by everyone else as Timothy Ratliff's son. And I'm okay with that, right? The very like meta-Nepo baby line like that.

I thought that was great, and he had a lot of emotional heft behind delivering that line. But then, of course, how can we not think back to in the phone securing manipulation scene in episode three when Tim was saying, and again, he was doing this deliberately to get the phones, but like, we both know how gratifying work is, right, that scene. And he was like, we got to have something else to offer. And even though it was a game, watching Saxon move to the point of actually confronting the fact that he doesn't feel like he has. anything else to offer, has been, I think, quite compelling. And then to see the way Tim has now, when he is engaging in his latest, what's the term for the person who kills their entire family? Oh, family annihilator. Family annihilator daydream. Disturbing term. Disturbing term. He's now added Saxon into that, right? He sees himself shooting Vicky and then Saxon comes in and

shooting him because he's now carrying this exchange with Saxon. He had the prior line from Vicki about how she wouldn't want to go on living. And now he asked Sackson. saying, like, without our professional success, like, what do I have? And so he feels like he has not only destroyed his own life and legacy, but that he has left his family, like, unequipped to find any purpose or meaning in their lives. And so for Saxon through Chelsea or whatever, to like work toward a different state of being, I think is really interesting and cool. He's sitting with his feelings. He didn't hear, he wasn't at the monastery. He didn't hear that line about sitting with his feelings, but he's actually doing it.

Good for him. I liked your meta Arnold Schwarzenegger thing. I agree. One other thing at the party, Vicky. Yes. Tries out of the relationship with the old guy. Just come to North Carolina. I just think they're putting in scenes just so Parker Posey can cook for like 90 seconds.

This was really funny. I support it. You have a lot of money. You can't ask that. Also at the party, Greg Garrier offers Blinda 100K. Tanya always talked about you a lot. I mean, that's interesting because it must be true for him to, like, know this whole story. That's interesting to know about Tanya.

She's really excited to help you. Was she? I kind of expected that when Tanya left, the White Lowe's she never talked about Belinda again. But it seems like she has to have talked about her some for Greg Gary to know this story. I doubt that Belinda ever told Greg Gary really any of the story from like 10 seconds. No, I think. Because to me, that's like more deplorable. She was such a narcissist.

I can't imagine her being like. That's why I think she did it. she would spend all her time saying, I made this connection with this person. She gave me this wonderful head massage. It was really transformative. I should have done it. I should have given her the money.

I should have invested. I feel bad. I wish I'd done it. And what was stopping her? Absolutely nothing. And Greg Garry's like, someday I'm going to murder you. And then stay at another hotel chain

as I hide away that's related to the same hotel. On the same hotel chain. Definitely not Simon LeBahn's stopping her. I knew she'd want me to spend the rest of my years in peace. He's just full of shit. Linda gets out of there. I wasn't that interested. Chloe wants Saxon to stay for Gary Threesome.

You have my interest back. Astonishing scene. Astonishing scene. I'm not sure what porn search this is, but it's definitely sounds like it's a porn search. No, it's, can we pretend to be me as a little kid watching my parents have sex? Watching dad go into town. I'll be the grown-up little kid and you'll pretend to be the parents. This was like a fucking shit.

It's like a combination at a pole electra complex in the blender together. Mike White is like, is this like this is maybe why he doesn't need a writer's room because he can just come up with shit like this. Can you come up with this? Maybe you don't need help. Okay, well, let me ask you guys. I think so this seems true or at least partially true. It's actually true. It's insane.

I don't understand it at all. Well, okay. Are we sure that this is true and not still just a ploy to lure Saxon into a vulnerable position so that he could get his vengeance? Because there is yet again another lie that we know is a lie. Like he, Greg Gary tells. I feel like this whole thing's a lie. Greg Gary, right.

Greg Gary tells Chloe, Tanya and I never had sex. But that is again not true. And we know it's not true because we see them have sex many times, including the possibly still this day best moment in the history of the show where they're having sex in season two. And then Tanya has her like, as she says, I disassociated. She starts to see his eyes and he looks like a shark and then she just pushes them all. I mean, what's true is that he did not want to have sex with her. Certainly. And I.

But the way that he put, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, is a lie. But I like the idea that the reason. that the reason that he didn't want to have sex with her is that he was unable to talk about what he needed from a sexual situation because it is this fucked up, you know? I feel like Tanya would have been like whatever you want, my guy. I think Tanya would have been good with it.

I think so. I think so. Well, Gary needs Saksin to fuck Chloe while he watches. I believe this. What's sad is I immediately thought of what Mallor's reaction was watching this and how she couldn't be more excited to talk about this on the pod. So what do you think? Saxon, not into it. Helping Gary.

Helping Gary. Saxon, he's like, you know, it's literally just been a day since my brother jerked me off. This is a lot. A lot for this week. I'm going to pass. I can't get a burner anymore. I can't do it.

I really love that Chelsea's like, sorry. Oh, sorry. I thought Chelsea's faces were great. Like, she seemed hopeful. Yeah, but she's like, sorry. She's like, she's like, she's been really cool if you did this for Gary. She's like looking back and forth. Sorry, sorry.

Yeah. I'm going to unveil my Patrick Schwarzenegger impersonation. Okay. Ready? Have to have good posture. Yeah, yeah, yeah. What?

No. No. What? No. The what, no. Recurring one no is. He's like, that's a what no.

That's great. That's one of his moves. Yeah. But we cut back. Don't sleep on this part. Gary just kind of watching. It's super creepy. Well.

Kind of like, hey, guys. Either plotting murder or really genuinely into it. This is the sitting position I'll be in as I watched the two you have sex before eventually pretending I'm upset about it. I think he has to be leaning against the

door frame. Yeah, I think that's clear. He can't be sitting comfortably. He needs to be leaning against the doorframe watching dad go to town on mom. Saxon wouldn't even consider it. No, he left. He wouldn't no note it. He's like, oh, I found my limit. There it is. Meanwhile, the Buddhist complex wasn't that exciting.

Well, what is going on here? So first of all, okay, so what's clear is this? Piper goes, the food sucks, the bed's uncomfortable, she can hear the dripping water. We're done by the, she's done by the end of us. Oh, yeah, this is everything that Victoria wanted, like. Vicki's praying against it. He didn't even have to pray.

This is everything that's locked. Piper's done. I don't know that I have a full read on her weird reaction to Lachlan. I understand my Lachlan wants to stay. Lachlan's like, I never want to go home. Because guess what? I jerked off my brother and that's disturbing. So I'm going to live here forever.

Was there? Did you catch a whiff of sexual? attention or was I so scarred by the incest. Rob was worried that they were going to go there. Because he's shirtless and he's like, I want to stay with you and for a split second I was like, no, no, please don't Mike White. Is that what you think? Because Piper's

like, it faded away. She was grossed out. But what is Piper's like, reaction, what is that? What I read in that was like, first of all, we've gone from the two, from the Lelaki Tug of War right, Saxon and Piper warring for

his loyal see his presence, his soul, and now everyone's like, what? No. I don't want to share this much with you, whether it's life at the monastery or a handjob during sex with Chloe, whatever the case may be. What I read in that in Piper's response to Lockhe was like, okay, and this is obviously in the same mix as like the dripping water pipe and the food and all the other stuff, no conversation with the people around her. How much of this is genuine commitment, belief, interest, and how much of it has always just been, I will be the rebel. I will be the one. I'm the zagger.

Yeah, in my family who does something different. And you do it too, then I'm not special. Exactly. As soon as Lockhe does it, it's like not bold of her to make the, to stake her claim to being the one who broke away. That's the one way to zag on everybody. I mean, Gary, I think that's like what's Gary's only fans? I mean, my God.

Gary has the worst only fans. He has no subscribers. I love this idea of like that. And again, thinking about the boat home, thinking about Saxon as like, we start, we go there to the island and Piper's got her nose in a book. And what if we go home and Saxon's reading a book? And Piper's as far away from life as a monastery as she's ever been. You know what I mean? Where she's like, the food sucks.

Bed's uncomfortable because all is dripping. I don't like it. Not a lot of evidence that Piper is a good hang. I just want to point that out too. I can't disagree. Yeah. No, not, yeah. I'm really sure what she cares about.

other than trying to zag against their family, but being committed to it for about 18 hours. I mean, this is a huge, huge win for Vicky. Yeah, big L for Piper. Huge L for Piper, huge win for Vicky. Remember when Lachlan said to Saxon in episode five, but what if this life is just a test to see if we can become better people in Saxon said?

No. What? No. But. Yeah. Wild times. Mook and God Talk, we covered the fight. The Russian show up, which was, I guess we should have mentioned this sooner.

This is the other big thing we learned this episode. We were guessing this for five episodes. Dialistically, I did not like this either. Like us going into flashback. Flashback. You hate that. You hate an in-episode flashback. We remember.

It's like, this was. That's true. If it's 22 episodes, I can see it. I mean, they did enough to, it's clearly Guy talk remembering and piecing together the, you know, the dots. So, like, that's fine. But kind of like, I don't know. We remember. We know.

We don't need you to hold our. I didn't forget the, I forgot the Valentin on the motorcycle as like the inside man. I forgot that part. So I didn't need the flashback for that. So Laurie also saw the loot, right? She saw the stash during her bare-assed escape. I had an issue. That was another small nitpick.

I think the loot's in a bag or something. You're just going to leave it out on a table. Or sold already, right? Pawned off for coin. Well, so Guy Talk realizes it's. them? Yes. So now he's in the shooting zone.

Greg Gary might be shooting somebody. Rick's looking for, or Tim's looking for a gun from anybody. C. Tala and Scott Glenn and the bodyguards might be coming back because they know. Well, Rick is still banged-cock. He's on the fucking clock to get back to the White Lotus if he's going to play a role in the shootout. Yeah. As are the bodyguards. And he threw out his gun.

He threw out his gun. Here's my question. He did this. Yeah. He's not, okay, maybe, no, I'm still a Rick and Chelsea believer. But if I'm Rick, I'm high-tailing it back to the White Lotus immediately. And I'm like, pack your bags, we got to go. I knocked an old man over in his chair.

You know what I mean? And we're staying at his hotel. Yes. Yes. You can't stay in the city where you just did this thing. And you definitely cannot stay at the hotel where he's to let those you are. And you can't even like give Chelsea a call to be like back out. Maybe at the airport.

Yeah. Again, he's terrible at this. Rick and Gary in Bangkok. Terrible. I wish you'd been the whole episode. You're sober, right? Sober, yeah, that ship sailed. I love Rockwell.

Yeah, Rockwell's incredible. Rick is like, this is part of why I just want. I actually am also, genuinely all jokes aside, I am still rooting for Rick and Chelsea, and I want hope to win and the hope of paying yin-yang. But Rick is a bad friend to Frank here. Dragging your friend out of sobriety and celibacy for your own gain and feeling zero remorse about it is shitty. And he's a terrible boyfriend. Here are my notes. Sam Rockwell MVP.

Let's fucking party. Strip chants and shots. Carcane crack four naked ladies. Rick sits there peaceful. Is your font always that big? No, I made it bigger. CR-esque for the camera. Incredibly compelling television.

But he's not a kind and generous person. So if that's his arc and he learns to be more giving to other people now that he has some peace with himself. Rick's not a good guy. Great. The only person who thinks Rick's a good guy is that one lady who did the spiritual massage with that. Yeah, yeah. That's it. She's the only one who believes in Rick at this point. By the way, maybe Rick should stay there and live with her and then Chelsea can be with Saxon.

They can blend some drinks. Saxon has a lot of growing to do. It's true. He does. He's just starting. Blinda and Zion, we don't know how that's going to turn out. Do you agree? Do you think that she's going to take the money? Are you going to save that for predictions? We'll save her predictions. So we see them arguing. We see Jackie and Kate.

That's mine. I'll be the bad guy I'm used to it. we see Saxon and Chelsea meditating trying to teach me your ways. Hand on the hand. Chelsea starts feeling little tingles. Yep. Oh, we got to end this now. I got to call Rick. Yeah.

Eight times she said that. Throws the books at him. We see Vicki praying. But he takes them. Vicki praying for Piper, Piper waking up. And then Carrie Coon. We finally got the really, really out there. Carrie Coon sex scene.

I knew that was coming in one of these episodes. Incredible. Ask her for money. K. He sees the thing, runs out, dick slap. And then Tim Ratliff goes to grab the gun and he's gone.

And that's our episode. So we can get to predictions. What do you got? Unlike Guy Talk, Tim acknowledges the possibility that the gun could have been in one of several drawers inside of that thing. So things to be interested in going forward. A, when does Guy talk cash in the Russians?

I know who did the robbery. So we got that. Yeah. Two, how does Rick get back? How does he get his stuff? How does he get the fuck out of the way, Lotus? Three, Belinda and Greg Gary. Four, are the fancies even going to make it one more day all together?

Yeah. And then five. Booked an earlier flight back to Austin. Piper and Locky leaving the Buddhist place. Does Locky stay? What's going to up with that? What else are we interested in heading into this last episode? Will Victoria ever show signs of Laura as of him, withdrawal?

Never. What's on Tim's phone when he gets it back? Yeah. Is Tim off the hook? Oh, Tim's phone? Yeah. Do we think this is the last day of White Lotus? Or is it the last day just because we're going to have a shootout?

Well, this is Friday night, right? Because again, the last four episodes have just been two days. So, yeah, I guess the, I mean, if it were me, I'll just say, if it were me, and there's a shoot at the resort. Check it out. That's the last day for me. Yeah. Checking out.

Yeah, you're leaving after that. I'd say so. So with all the gunshots, it makes me wonder. Yeah. Again, not only have we not seen the episode, I haven't heard anything. You have the two bodyguards coming back to find Rick. Yes. You have the Russians who rob the place.

So you have two sides that we know we're going to have guns. Rick does not have his gun. He put it in a trash gun. And maybe that's the shootout? The Russians versus the staff. I think I would be. shocked if Guy talk is not involved. Guy talk shooting at the Russians.

Unless he holds true to his morals. Bodyguards come. They get into it and now it's almost like a Tarantino three-way thing. He hates those guys, right? He hates them and has from the beginning. So like, what if... But he knows the Russians. Yes.

Are the villains. He does. Right. In the tradition of like... Right. So that, that's, yes. So like, in the tradition of characters making a mistake, it would be interesting if...

the Hollinger bodyguards came to find Rick not to kill him or hurt him, but to be like, can you come back so that you guys can finish that conversation? He's your dad. But Guy Talk sees them pursuing a guest. Here's Fabian in his head being like, your job is to protect the hotel. Here's Mook in his head saying, I thought you were more ambitious and like tries to protect a guest at the hotel and pulls out his gun. But where do the Russians come into that?

I'm going to show you how that I'm going to show you how that. can be violent but makes a dumb mistake. Yeah. But the Russians. Chasing down Rick being like, he's here. Did you that? Come talk. Come talk.

Not about revealing that, but be like that they're actually there. Not actually saying that, but that they're there. No barony isn't a brainstorm as Davey. That is Chicobe would say. They're there to like basically, not for a violent reason, but just the fact that they're there is mistaken by all parties as violent intent. Counter. Yeah.

The security guards are there. Guy Talk tries to confront Valentin. and the Russians and he has to decide whether he's going to draw or not. Yes.

You think doesn't because he believes he stands by his... I'm like, fuck, Mook. You know what I mean? Go back to episode one though. Our guy Zion

getting him whatever he was going on. Gunshot? No noise for like 10 seconds. Another gun shot? Yeah. And then gunshots. Yes.

So the first shot could be Guy Talk getting shot. Yeah. Yeah. Joanna just got bummed out. And then the security guard shooting at the Russian back, and then we get a shootout. And then Rick's just diving in front of the bullets, hoping to get hit by one. Not Rick.

Tim. Tim's just died. Or he takes a bullet for Chelsea? That would be great. Rick takes a bullet for Chelsea. And that way we get to celebrate both his commitment to her and her new budding relationship with Saxon. That would be ideal. Her impending nuptials with Zach.

That would be ideal. Can I tell you something? concerned by. Yes, yeah. In an interview. Oh, no. Interview Corner. Lisa, who plays a MOOC, they were talking about how sometimes you have to fight for your love. And I didn't know what that meant. That was like several episodes ago. I don't know what that means. And I don't know if like in their view or in someone's view, it is good for Guy Talk to Show some macho masculinity. I think us watching at home are like, don't do it. Don't do it. Don't do it. And especially because that would be a contrast to what many of the characters do, especially if Piper, if Vicki's right, and Piper leaves the monastery and is like, actually, I am going back home to just live my life, whatever happens with Tim aside. That's her decision absent that knowledge. Mom, can I have one of your Larazepam? She's the Rachel character from season one then, right? She spends the whole season talking about the thing she wants, the thing that's different. Why can't the people around me understand? Yeah, like, why I have some sort of like moral integrity and fiber that is like separate from the trapping. of money and status and class and then just like actually I do want to hold on to that and

Guy Talk saying no like this is a thing I believe I'm not gonna compromise the actual like truth of my life would be very important and satisfying to see but then if he died like or got shot

what would the message of that be? Very sad. That would be deeply, deeply tragic. What if they kill Guy talk off because he's the most boring character in the show. Just take him out. Belinda,

a part of this too, right? Belinda walks off with the money. If she walks off with the money, yeah. But like then there's honestly, okay, I want to be clear. You know Gary killed Tanya.

It would not be the right thing to take the money and like let him live the rest of his life. To be clear. However, why should Belinda be the one person? Like she says, can I get like one fucking break in my entire life?

Like, why? Yeah. Why shouldn't Belinda benefit from this fucking shit show around her all... Take the money she was due from Tanya in the first place. Yeah. Like when Rachel was in the spot at the end of season one and was like, oh, can I just sit here and cry to you about how sad my life is?

And Belinda walked out and was like, you want my time, my advice? Like, I'm fresh out. It's maybe time for her to be the one who does that. That would be interesting, but also... But what I like... At the expense of some moral integrity. What I like about that is that Mike White has said that, like, her character is supposed to be the moral compass of the show.

but what if she's like... Is there a moral compass? Is there even a moral compass? And maybe is it Guy Taku's not shooting? I'm just rooting for him and I don't think he should be with Mook. Because Moop wants some... No, doesn't want him. Luke doesn't like him for who he is.

Moogneying Saxon. Let's just set Saxon up. Maybe they have dating different people. Maybe Saxon needs to spend some time with Saxon. Yeah. Do you know what he means? He needs to sit with his feelings. Exactly.

One more... It's not totally a prediction, but I'm throwing it out there. Are we sure the three fancies are all making it to the end of this episode that not one of them's going to leave early? could we get to leave early? Oh, I love that. Like they wake up and Jacqueline's just gone with some fake excuse.

Yeah. I'd go back. They need me on set. And it's just Kate and Lauren left. Enjoy your flights here and coach this time. Yeah. No, seriously.

Yeah. You have three connections. Yeah. I got out a day early. We'll have to leave a day early and I've already left. Yeah. You guys can get back yourself.

Yeah. I don't think she wants them to see her sweat, to see that she was flustered by the encounter at all. Like, she's not cutting her vision. vacation a day short for them. I don't know. I kind of like the idea where she's just like, oh, Harrison needed me.

I had to go. Sweet Harrison. They're addicted to each other. She seems like a short note. Talk to you soon. TTIO. Love Jackie. All right.

So things I want in this episode. Love Jackie. Other than somebody watching her show on their hotel room TV where it's like CSI, CSI. You'll have to wait for a bonus web episode between seasons, I think. CSI, Seattle. What is it? What is the Yellow Jacket show, Repo? D. B. Boreseys? It's great.

That sounds great. Any last predictions? Four we go. I don't know. 90-minute episode is kind of exciting. I'm just really invested in Saxon and I never saw that coming, guys. What a win. I hope you feel great about yourself. I feel like the season was a success on that front of one.

Saxon Hive has grown. Schwarzenegger. Proud to be a founding member. Nepo Baby is totally vindicated. This is great. Any last predictions about it? I think we covered. Okay. A lot of them, I, you know, I'm...

He's your dad! I have to, I don't think they will shout that. The security guards. I am, I'm really, I'm, you're dead. I'm processing that you can't blend the, the poison seed pods into a smoothie. That's a hit for Theory Corner, definitely. I would love for Tim to try. The physical comedy of Larazapam Tim, Ratlin Tim,

trying to shove some corky fruit into the blender, breaking it and being like, Pam, the blender's broken Pam. Maybe. And then she comes to fix the blender and gives him his phone and he sees that he's off the hook. Yeah. Well, if it's hard to blend, maybe he starts blending it and the blender like does a spasm and knocks him out with the... Death by blender, physical blender. Death by blender.

Oh, Tim. Oh, are any of these people going to leave episode eight in any kind of a happy place? Saxon. Saxon. I think he's on the past progress. Chelsea maybe. Happy? Chelsea and Rick.

I believe. I think Rick's dead at the end of the next episode. You think Rick is dead? I think he is dead. Do you think he's the body floating towards Zion that we saw at the beginning? I think I don't know. Zion wouldn't know who he is, though. I think it would have to be somebody Zion knew.

Or at least that didn't interact with it. I think it's horrific enough to like find a dead body. Yeah. And also he wasn't like. But I thought the way he looked at it and I thought he knew who it was. No? No. I thought the opposite.

I thought he was like, because otherwise he would have been like, Mom. Oh, no. But who knows? I guess I would run from a body pretty quickly, too. Most disappointing deaths would be Frank. Frank's back in the Lotus. Frank's not coming back to the Lotus. He's safe. He's going to live forever. He's fine. Maybe he'll be the new recurring character across seasons.

Have you heard the rumor that Rockwell's going to go for supporting rather than guessed, which would be a mistake, I think. Oh, interesting. What has that a rumor? Where did you read that? I heard it on the streets. You heard it on the streets. So he's been in three episodes. Supporting's a little sexier, right? Yeah.

If he has a supporting actor Emmy, that's sexier than guest actor Emmy. But he's got guest actor in the bag. I would just take it. No question. It's a tough one. He's my favorite person on the show. If you were to win, leaving Sam Rockwell's side, if you were to award one other Emmy for this season, who are you giving it to? Good question.

I'm changing my answer to this question most of the season was either Jason Isaacs or Walton Gogg's. I think they've obviously both been wonderful, but the last couple episodes I haven't gotten quite as much. I would go either Gaggins. Patrick Swarton. He's really good. I'd either go Gagins or... What about Amy Lou? Chelsea.

I think Amy Lou is that Amy Lou is by vote. Just dynamite. And I would not be surprised at Parker Posey got it off of memes alone, honestly. And she would deserve it. Because these memes are going to be, as we've been talking about. Yeah. These memes are going to be a part of our lives for decades to come. Parker Posey and Lee, it's all arbitrary.

White Lotus. It's an ensemble. Parker Posey for lead. Yeah. Amy Lou for supporting, even though I think technically Amy Lou has more screen time. That would be a good Emmy's category. Meem of the Year and the nominees are. They'd all be from White Lotus.

Yeah. The nominees are Rick being unable to believe. Tremel Timmelman from Severance. Yeah, of course. Milchick, Meme Lord Milchick. Have you seen any Milchick memes? though. You must have. I've seen the memes, but I don't know what they mean.

Yeah. Well, sad. I have many hours of podcasts you can listen to. I know. I know. Well, I'm sad. This is the last time we actually had to prepare for a pod. I'm going to miss it.

But next week, we'll go live if we have to. Where's that Rose? We get the Rosee ready to go. So we'll be right after that show somehow. We don't know how. If we can get screeners, even better. But I will see you next week. Thanks to the crew.

As always, don't forget. bring her Dash TV. And then Joe's got the deep dive with Rob. Can't wait for that one as always. And I'll see you next week.