The Prestige TV Podcast - The 'Yellowjackets' Penultimate Episode

Episode Date: January 10, 2022

Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Joanna Robinson break down the penultimate episode of 'Yellowjackets' Season 1. They give some theories for the episode, talk about some of their favorite moments from the season, and make some predictions for the finale. Hosts: Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Joanna Robinson Producer: Kaya McMullen Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

I'm Derek Thompson, long-time writer with the Atlantic Magazine on tech, culture, and politics. There is a lot of noise out there, and my goal is to cut through the headlines, loud tweets, and hot takes in my new podcast, plain English. I'll talk to some of the smartest people I know to give you clear viewpoints and memorable takeaways. Plain English starts November 16th. Listen for free on Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts. All right, it's the prestige TV pod. My name is Bill Simmons. I'm here with Chris Ryan.

and Joanna Robinson, we're going to talk about a wonderful show. Yeah. Chris, where do you stand on this theme song? Oh, it's amazing. It's the guy from Shudder to Think. Were you ever Shudder to Think guy, or was that more Joe House? That was more Joe House. Yeah, I bet.

What year do you think that theme song would have come out in real life? Because I'm thinking like 1990-Nine range. Oh, I was going to say, 1993, 94. I think it's a little bit later. Yeah, because I feel like it has a little bit of the electronica revolution to it. Oh, interesting. So like 95 range. Yeah.

Well, we're talking about yellow jackets. We're nine episodes in. We want to do this before this season finale. And I had been texting with Joanna a few times about it. And it was like a smoldering fire. And we were wondering, will the fire blow up before we do this podcast? Joanna, it did. It did.

Episode nine was everything we wanted. You texted us yellow jackets with what, four exclamation marks, Chris? Is that how many were after? I think so, yeah. Yeah. So what inspired the four exclamation marks for you, Bill? You know what? I almost did was text you guys at 1130 at night.

And then I was like, oh, wait, Joanna might get freaked out. She hasn't been working with us that long. She doesn't know how I operate. I'll text her at 9.30 a.m. on a Sunday. Yeah, 9.30 a. It was better. I watched it Saturday night. And I was like from the first, basically the scene where they just get into it.

And Shauna stabs her lover. and we're just off. And we get a mushroom fever dream and we get people getting chased and people lose their virginity. And it seems like we're going to get our first murder in the island, not the island, the wilderness. And we're just off. Chris, is this, what's going on here? Is this a fever dream? Is there supernatural forces on the island?

What's your take? Are they just losing it or is there something else going on? I mean, I think that they're pretty potent mushrooms and mushrooms can feel pretty supernatural. but yeah, I don't think that there is like a, you know, wilderness god whispering to them or some sort of druid force moving through them. I think that this is just isolation, puberty, hormones, mushrooms, and losing hope that you'll get rescued. And Lottie Offermeds. That's a key component to all of this. Lottie running another lachshapine.

Yeah, that's the, Lottie is really the only question. I think that's the only, like, does she? have some sort of premonition, especially since they show it in that flashback origin story of the car crash for her. They're trying to sort of seed in a potential supernatural element. I would prefer there not be. I would prefer it would be the exact cocktail Chris described. That would be my preference for the show.

That everything is... So you don't want any polar bears. You don't want any others. No smoke monsters. No. Just like make it, you know, what happens to your mind when a bunch of teenage girls are stuck together in the wilderness, you know. I think that's important because I feel like it's too much on lost corner if we get too

supernatural with the forest. But that said, something's going on because when Taisa was on the tree thinking her lover was getting eaten by a wolf and now it's like I'm not 100% positive that happened. Are we positive? She was attacked by an animal? Like what do we think happened? Because I feel like all bets are off now with this show after nine episodes. Things they're showing us, I don't know if I believe necessarily that they happen.

You think it's an unreliable narrator show? It's an unreliable, which are the most frustrating shows for me, because I like things cut and dry. I like you to walk me through. I don't want to have the unreliable narrator where I'm like, wait, did that, are we sure? But I don't know. What do you think? I think it's good to question everything that you're seeing. I think they're doing a lot of heavy hand and misdirect in the present.

That's the only place I get a little frustrated sometimes when I feel like they walk us. way far down a path before we get a reversal. There are reversals I love, though, like in this episode when Sean's husband Jeff, that whole thing worked really well for me, partly because of that actress performance of the line read, there's no book club, which was an iconic Yellowjackets line read. But that works for me. There's no book club?

But some of the other stuff, like some of the stuff around, I mean, maybe we'll still find out that there's something going on with Adam, the amorous mechanic, as you called him, Bill. But, you know, there's just, there's a lot of, they're really trying to pull you in different directions. But it's a, it's a fun conspiracy theory show. That's what's here to do, I suppose. Chris, what's your favorite thing about this show? Because I almost felt like I should have probably started there.

I think for me, if it was a seesaw of being in the wilderness versus being in 2021, I'm actually more interested in the wilderness. and I agree with what Joanna said. It might be a little too much present, but I also think they have these great actors and they want to take advantage of them. But the dynamics on, I guess we'll call it the forest or wherever we're in Canada,

whatever you're going to call it. The dynamics, especially watching the people subtly turn on each other, watching what's happening with Jackie, the last couple episodes, for whatever reason, I'm way more interested in that. Where does your take between those two worlds?

Yeah, I mean, I'm a sucker for any kind of like we need to build. rebuild some sort of society out here where we've been stranded. So I always am fascinated by the Lord of the Flies element where you're like, oh, you know, like who's doing their chores and how Jackie kind of, who maybe had some juice in high school now has become kind of useless out in the wilderness because she doesn't want to do any of the sort of manual labor. Do you think that would happen, do you think that would happen as Sean if we all crashed in the wilderness? Like Sean immediately becomes Jackie? So it depends on how much battery power he has on his MacBook air.

to keep blogging the movies he's watching. Because I've been with Sean where you're just like, hey man, you want to go, you know, we're in New Orleans. You want to go get Beny's? And he's just like, I have to record that I saw three films last night. Hold on, you know? But, you know, like, I definitely like, I really love the forest stuff.

And then I also love the metatextual Christina Ricci, Juliette Lewis, engaging with their sort of iconic 90s status as people. who are sort of like grappling with whether their lives turned out the way they wanted them to. What's your answer, Joanna? I mean, I think I do love watching what is powerful in quote unquote civilization and what is power in the woods. I thought that was really great that line from Lonnie, which is what you're, what did she say in

this episode? Something like you don't have any power here. Something akin to the line from labyrinth. Wasn't she like you're done here? It was almost like you're, she didn't say it this way, but your way of doing things is over out here. Yeah. Like you don't, you know, like you don't get to have first crack at the only young man on the island of consenting age.

And so all of that stuff I think is really, really interesting to me. I'm obsessed with what Christina Ricci and Juliette Lewis are doing, let alone Melanie Linsky. And one fun game I think that people are playing in terms of, because we don't know how many other survivors there might be out there. They've left that intentionally ambiguous. So I think a fun game that people have been playing is trying to figure out what other sort of iconic 90s actresses, they could cast as some of these other people who might have survived. Oh, wow. Give us a couple of choices.

I will tell you my favorite. I only wrote down my favorite, which is Robin Tenney of the craft and Empire Records fame as like an adult Jackie. If Jackie survives, which she's pretty high on my death pool list. But if she survives somehow, and her parents don't know, I don't know. Robin Tenney, I like that answer. That's an incredible idea. The highest upside one would be Sarah Michelle Giller.

If we really wanted to go. Yeah, if we really wanted to go full throttle. Because Juliet Lewis and Christina Ricci are kind of mid to late 90s. Oh, geez. I'm so impressed by how well they did the casting with the young and the old. I think that's so hard to do. And we've seen that go badly so many different times with so many different movies and shows. And in this one, especially the Shawna one's the best one.

You could tell me like that was Melanie Nulinski's daughter. And I'd be like, totally make sense. But everything, even like her faces, I don't even know how they pulled that off where the expressions and the demeanor and kind of the way they carry themselves is so similar. You almost wonder if like Melanie Nielinski spent time with the younger actress and like tried to learn for mannerisms. I read an interview with Courtney Eaton who plays Lottie in Vulture. I think it dropped last night because it was about this episode. And she said that some of that was happening on set like Jasmine Savoy Brown who plays young Taisa. she watched footage of how Tani Cypress ate dirt so that they ate dirt the same way.

They are really trying. And I think Sophie Nalise, I think is the name of the actress playing young Shana. She's doing Melanie Linsky's voice, as is the actress who's doing young Juliet-Lewis. Like, they're changing their voices a little. So I think they are really consciously trying to match those performances. But something that Courtney Eaton said is, you know, leaving it ambiguous about whether or not there ever would be an adult lot. that we haven't seen yet. But she was like, whoever that would be,

would then have to study my performance, which is kind of fun, you know, because the younger girls have been studying the older women to match them. So someone else would have to come in and match her what she's established, which I think would be interesting. Well, if somebody was coming back,

I think it would have to be somebody that we have established at least some semblance of a relationship within the first nine episodes. And there's a school of thought. If you go, yellow jackets, read it. Pretty strong. Some good conspiracy theories in there.

But also some, incredible memes on that. Yeah. Just they're really good word. One of the better Reddit pages. But I would think it's one of the three. It's either the goalie who's in the relationship with Taisa. It's Lottie.

Jackie's the odds on favorite. And on that Reddit thing, they had a whole thing about, they show her diary. And it's like these different pages of things. And one of the things is about movies and movie characters she loves. And one of the movie characters is Titanic and Rose. which is a movie that came out in like 97,

but the show is supposed to take, it's rooted in 96. So people are like, that's too, that's too much of an oversight. They're not doing the diary with the amount of time and care and oversight this show has. They're not fucking that up. Where it's like, oh shit, that's right.

Titanic was in 1997, not 95. I don't see them making that mistake. So that feels like either it's a red herring or there's something there. Jackie's parents definitely think she's dead. so maybe she died after they got back from the wilderness, possibly, right? Yeah, that's possible. Like, maybe she has injuries or something.

Yeah. But how would she have had Titanic in the diary? See, this is the great thing about this show. See, I actually think Jackie makes it because I mean, yes, Jackie's parents know she's dead, but, like, there's something where they've been, like, leaning so heavily into it being Jackie is the odd one out and Jackie doesn't have a contemporary counterpart that it almost seems like too obvious for that to be the one. Yeah.

But I don't have like, I mean, maybe it's Lottie. Maybe it's maybe it's Tice's girlfriend on the island. I'm not sure, but yeah. My, so, you know, the Reddit is convinced and I'm convinced with them that there will be a reveal at the reunion, like if they all go to the reunion in the finale, which seems like they're going to, that that's where they might see one character at least that we haven't seen yet as an adult. And I'm, I'm voting for Van, the goalie.

Bill told me I should keep my eye on the goalie. the first time we recorded. So Van, you know, Tice's girlfriend, Liv Houston, great Santa Clarion. And well, there she is because she'll have a nice scar on her left cheeks. Yeah. Oh, that's her. You'll immediately know.

Yeah. Listen, it's awesome that we're doing this pod and that this show is good enough to do a pot about. Because on paper, I was pretty skeptical. We're going back and forth. It feels a little close to lost, like being trapped in the woods, the forest, whatever again.

you have old actors and young actors, and then you have the classic hook from the last 15 years of shows, which is there's some sort of secret. We got to find out what it is, and the episodes move toward some sort of reveal. They pulled all of it off. And I really think this is a high-end show.

I get mad at people when they tell me they're not watching it. Joana, where does this rank for you just in the hierarchy of really well-done, thoughtful shows? Because I feel like it's getting there. But I also don't know if I just like the show because of the music and maybe I'm overrating it. The music's incredible. I think it's a really fun show. I have like a really great time watching it.

I want to give credit to Chris. I think Chris's early enthusiasm off the screeners or what got me to watch it before it dropped. Good job, Sierra. Yeah. Thank you. Chris is ahead of the wave. But I think it's a really, really fun show. This is what I've said to you a couple times, Bill.

But like in terms of being like a pantheon great show, I think what I would want to see from it is just like a little bit more. time to reflect on the trauma rather than like running from one mystery to another. I know that Chris and I are deep into Station 11 right now, which is a similar sort of time lapse trauma process, but with like so much more room. And there's sort of mystery questions that you're trying to solve in the time gap, but there's so much more room for like emotional reflection. And I think the best version we've seen of that so far is when Shauna kills Adam and we're flashing back and forth between her younger self.

in the kitchen and all those flashes and Mellie Linsky is so good at showing that sort of like trembling trauma. That stuff is good, but I think I just want there's like 90 mysteries an episode and I want 75 mysteries and then a little bit more room for something else. Does that make sense? Yeah, I just would love to see Juliette Lewis and Christina Ritchie

go to more diners and stuff. You know, like rather than solve mysteries or like figure out how to dispose of bodies from the internet. I think that if I had one complaint, it does get scoobyed out occasionally with like, we have to go figure out who, like, did this guy kill himself or was he murdered? And how did I lose all this money?

And we got to pay off the blackmailer. And they're cramming a lot of like thriller plots into that contemporary storyline. And I would just be fine, like, getting to know these people a little bit better. I think that's one thing that's cool about Station 11 is that even though, like, Joanna said, there are some mysterious elements that you're never like,

the point of this show is to solve the mystery. I think what we're really trying to solve is what happens in the wilderness. And what's really interesting is it's worth noting that this is a Showtime show. And Showtime shows, generally speaking, run for as long as humanly possible and then break through that endurance barrier and just keep putting out Dexter seasons. So I'm kind of curious what like late period Yellow Jackets looks like. And then we're going to have like the star of Yellow Jackets, Drew Barrymore, Season 5. I was going to say Drew Barrymore.

Wow. Just pulled that right on my head. The Scooby Point's really important. That's probably my biggest criticism with the show. It's 15% a little too much Scooby-Doo. Let's drift toward the mystery. But you think about it. We've only seen nine shows. The history of these shows are they usually take a little while to bake, right?

Five, six episodes for the showrunners to kind of see everybody together to get a feel for what they're getting from the actresses. And I'm sure, like, I'm sure they laid out the whole first season. But now as we head toward the end of season one heading in this season two, they kind of know who their go-to people are now. Like, they're going to lean into the four modern actresses they have. And they're going to know maybe we don't do too much supernatural stuff or insinuations. There was a really good piece in the LA Times. They had some therapist.

Do you guys read this? The trauma thing. It was, first of all, really well written by somebody who, was therapist, but it was all about PTSD and how the show built toward episode nine, toward Sean and basically having a breakdown and all the stuff that was repressed in the island. And I felt that watching it, but the writer really laid out in a way that I thought was easy to understand, but also like really high level.

And you think like, oh, maybe this show does have a higher ceiling than I was given it credit for because all the points in that piece were correct. that was there was a lot of really subtle, smart, high-end stuff going on that, you know, I don't think this show is going to be on the level of Breaking Bad and the all-timers. But it definitely has a chance to be on that next level, you know? It's like Chris and I in sports where oh is the who could you win a Super Bowl with a QB, who are the elite QBs. I think this is an elite show.

I don't know if it's going to be an all-timer, but I think it's an elite show. I think a lot is going to depend, not even on this finale, because we got like a massive reveal in this episode. that Lottie, you know, as far as we can see, is the antler queen, as they call her, and all of that. And that was a big mystery. We're wondering if we would know in this season. But I think to both of your points, what I feel from this season is a little bit of an anxiety of a first season of we have to hook people and we have to clear off the whiteboard. Yeah, exactly. Every idea. Yeah. And it's just sort of like we have to pack all this in. We've got to

end with cliffhangers. We've got to get people excited for the next thing. We've got to get Reddit engaged. and they've succeeded in all levels. It's just exploded over the course of the season, the engagement. But I'm hoping that we'll give them confidence in season two to sort of slow down a little bit and spread it out a bit more and then give us those diner scenes that Chris wants. Chris, who's your biggest winner from an actor standpoint

in this show so far? Well, I've always loved Melanie Nielinski and she's, I think, never gotten to do this specific kind of part. over the last few years, she's been known for more, like, kind of, like, low-budget indie dramas and comedies and has appeared in some Duplas stuff. But this is, like, tapping into, like, a different, like, vein for her, I think. I think she's just getting to do a lot more fun stuff.

And is, honestly, like, the comic relief that this show needs, especially the contemporary one, because if you're just riding the rails with Juliette Lewis, you might just find yourself flying off the side of the tracks, you know? Because that can get pretty intense when she's smashing up like snack, snack machines and doing blow or trying to and everything else. So I love Linsky. You were hoping for Juliette Lewis relapses every two episodes.

No, but it's just like, do you want to live all of your life in the second half of Goodfellas? It's tough. You know what I mean? Yeah. Like I can do it in Goodfellas. It's like if it's a 10-hour show, it's tough. But I really have been enjoying Linsky. I think she's got such good comic timing.

And that's what I've been into. It's funny. There are these actors or actresses that you really like and they never find the absolute perfect role. Like I feel like Rosemary Duritz like this for me because I love her and Rachel getting married. And then she's been in other stuff and I've liked her. But I always feel like she never found that perfect TV role.

Right. And Melanie Linsky is like that too. And now I feel like this is like the perfect role for our. Juliette Lewis and Christina Ricci have had these moments over the years, right? And now you're talking about three decade careers for each of them. I mean, Julia Lewis was getting her, you know, her finger sucked by Daniro. What year was Cape Fear? Like 1990?

Yeah. The most disturbing scenes, I think, ever in a movie. One of the most traumatic movies I ever saw to sleepover. Oh, my God. Yeah. But Linsky, I don't feel like ever really had her moment. But I do think some of the younger actresses, this could be a launching pad for them because the one who plays Taise is great. The one who plays Shauna is really, really good.

And I think young Jackie, who's not that young in real life, she's probably like 24, 25. But I think that character's been really good, too. The acting's high level. Because I feel like if you miss with any of those parts, the show kind of unravels a little bit. I really failed in my prompt last time we talked about this when you asked me sort of Bill, what Mellie Lindskii, like what you should know her from. Yeah. Heavenly Creatures is sort of like her first big thing. And I feel like this is the first time she's really gotten to return to what she was doing in that movie with Kate Winslet.

Like that the line from Heavenly Creatures to this is such an interesting one. And yeah, she's played so many of the variations along the way. My of the young kids, my MVP is actually Sophie Thatcher who plays young Natalie. I really, like, occasional bad wigs aside. Like I really. And also they've been in the woods for like four months. So she should have some roots by now, but that's okay. I forgive the show for that.

But yeah, Sophie Thatcher, I think is really interesting. I also really like the way that this flips, like, basically every other TV show where, like, the guys are the interchangeable, dumb, hot ones that you don't really remember their names at all. Like, you're like, oh, yeah, that guy, right, right. Oh, yeah, that guy. Like, you know, like, it's just great to sort of forget, like, Adam immediately. Yeah. Let's talk about the music, Chris.

some fucking bangers. I'm so proud of how good the music is in this. It was really important to me. Like this is really, really, really my era. I have a playlist from every year and the whole thing. And some of the ones like Dinosaur Jr. Like they pick Smashing Pumpkins today. The world I know from Collective Soul.

They threw in a little Tracy Bonham, mother, mother. They dead belly. I mean, they just, Mazzy Star Fade and you. Chappetto was great. Yeah. PJ Harvey. They did little the Prodigy. I don't.

What was the Liz Fair? Did they dive in a list fair yet? How have they not done fucking run yet? I thought for sure. I thought that was a guaranteed for one of these. They did Supernova. Didn't they do Supernova? Yes, they think it was Supernova because I think fucking run is off, is on Guyville,

which would have been pretty obscure for like New Jersey High School. But maybe, I don't know. But they probably would have had it back then. Ready to go, Republic. Like over and over. there's a great playlist on Spotify that has all of them. But the music is a character in the show, which I think is a really hard thing to pull up.

But I know you love it. It's just really good choices, not like the obvious ones. Sorry, what were you going to say, Chris? Oh, no, I was just, I mean, I just love the fact that it actually feels like the music that the characters would listen to. It's like, mix tape music.

You could see it on a mixtape on with 30 songs grouped together. It's like they didn't let the music supervisor just go completely unchecked and just be like, here's this really good, here's the fifth good counting crow song. It's like, no, you stick to the ones that they would actually want to hear. And the kiss from a rose stuff is just so perfect for that. Because it's like they all know all the words. They all like, it's the song that they wanted to hear at prom.

It's great. The female empowerment piece of this, Joanna. Yes. How much of this is, it's a smart theme to have in 2021 for a show. And how much of it is just we haven't seen it in a show. Because to me, I feel like it's more. this is just a cool idea for a show, a girl's team and all the dynamics like we talked about last time

and how that would play out if you take the dynamics of a team and completely uprooted and put in a situation. I don't feel like it's pandery. No, no, it doesn't strike me as pandery at all. It strikes me as extremely realistic, especially like the fact, you know, they were talking about, like, what is like to get your period in the woods

and, like, all this sort of stuff like that. Like, that's all part of it. What I do think feels, it's not revolutionary because we have stuff like, big little eyes or whatever else. But the amount of time we're spending with these older actresses, you know, they're, you know, they're not, you know, ancient, but they're, you know, Melanie Linsky and Juliet Lewis and Christina Ricci and Tani Cyprus, like these actresses might not necessarily get

something so meaty where they're, you know, having sex and killing people and doing blow off of the, like, carpet and whatever it is, you know, this is, like a great venue for them. So it's not so much, like, just about women, but it's about women of a certain age or, like, or the fact that, you know, Melanie Lee Lee, is she's like a suburban mom and like doing all this sort of stuff, but not in a like weeds kind of way. Yeah. You know, and it's, I love that part of it.

But yeah, no, it doesn't strike me as super pandery girl power, all the female Avengers assemble to run the gauntlet or something like that. But I think what we talked about last week and, or sorry, last time we talked about the inspiration for this being that online discussion of what, what women would do in a Lord of the Fly situation. And I like this idea that we're headed towards a split, essentially clicks, like a split faction of, that's the log line for the show is like split faction of cannibal clans in the woods. And I do think that sort of weird clickish we saw it in this episode, the sort of like some people are having this kind of trip over here. And then Lottie becomes like an alpha running the minds of these girls over here.

And I just, I think that feels really true. Very true. You know, one of my nitpicks is a tiny one, but they did such a good job with like the Juliette Lewis, Christina Ricci type of 90s. Just by casting those people, we're pulling the 90s into the show. I would have done it with, uh, with Shauna's husband, who I think is fine. See, I actually for a while, I thought that was Kit Pardue, who would almost have hit that. So that would have been amazing.

Yeah. Yeah. But like you could have gone Freddie Prince Jr. there. You could have gone maybe. Yeah, Ryan Felipe. Chris Klein. Chris Klein. Totally. Like, Chris Klein would have been perfect. But I wish that had been somebody from that world.

Like even maybe Brian Austin Green could really go on like deep dive 90s. Yeah. The B.A.G. The notorious B.A.G. But yeah, they hired a no name. But he did get to be the. Wait, there's no boot book club. We did get that from that guy. So it's fine.

I have a question for you too. So over the last year, over the last couple of years, limited series have become very obviously stylish because you can book, perform like bigger name stars to do something if they know they only have to do six to eight episodes or whatever. And then, you know, some of those shows then become popular and they add on seasons to them like big little lies. But in the case of Yellow Jackets and if you're on Showtime,

you're like hoping you get the Golden Ticket in Showtime's just like, yes, go ahead, make five seasons of this. So with that in mind, and knowing that, you know, this is an incredibly popular show that's got this big cult following now, how comfortable are you if there's no rescue in the last episode? Like,

we're only just beginning with the back and forth and stuff like that. I think we did talk about this, and I think before, like, mid-season, Bill, you and I were like, we kind of think this could just be a one-and-done season. But now, I mean, I know that's not their intention. But now that I've seen the pace that they're unspooling everything, I can see a few seasons. But I don't want to Ray Donovan run for it.

I think it should tap out at four or something like that. You know what I mean? What do you think, Bill? I don't trust Showtime's instincts on this. I think they've made a lot of mistakes over the years. I mean, Homeland, how many years extra that keep going? Billions, they were able to reinvent it by basically getting. rid of acts and bringing in a new guy, but I don't know if that's going to work, honestly.

And I'm happy for our friends that they get to make more seasons. But who knows? This show, you could tell me it's 30 episodes and we're out and I'd be delighted. I think this has been famously discussed forever, but lost giving themselves a finish line. Did give it some clarity. Now, do we agree with the choices they made the last two years? That's a topic for another discussion. But at least that show just could have kept going for seven, you know, it could have been Grazy Anatomy, and it would have been a disaster. I'm glad they wrapped it up. This show, I do feel like if we're going to introduce more characters, we have the arc of

Taisa's political campaign. Like, what if she has, like, real office and, you know, what if she has real power? What if her political crisis? Yeah. And she's in a position of, you know, which would explain a lot, like, if we had her as, like, in a real political power. But so you have that piece. And they've really taken their time in the island.

What are we like, what do you think we're like five, six weeks in at this point? Seven weeks? I think it's four months. Four months? Yeah, because the seasons have changed, yeah. Yeah. And yeah, it hasn't started to snow yet, but the seasons have changed. And I think given how pregnant Shauna is.

Oh, yeah, you're right. It is, yeah. The pregnancy, I guess, is the tip off, which leads me to my next question. Yeah. That baby's not making it. So what happens? I don't know. It's something

They're not going to eat the baby, Chris. Chris, are they going to eat this baby? No, no. Tell me for certain that they're not going to eat this baby because I'm not going to guarantee anything, but that is like, that's like a 70s Italian horror movie. That's not a show.

That's snow piercer. That's what that is. I can't rule it out. I'm sorry. I can't rule it out. I can't rule out some sort of something. What if we go, what if it goes more to like a dingo ate my baby?

What if it's just like the wolves get the baby or something like that. We know the baby's not making it. I think that's fair to say. Do we or was it raised by another? We don't know. You know, not to invoke loss too much. But like, I think, I mean, it's not her teenage daughter, to be clear, the math is not line up for that, right?

But I like the idea of maybe, I don't know. I want to believe in the survival of this. Mystery daughter somewhere? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. If we're talking about wrinkles on the island that are going to be fun to play out.

I would say the pregnancy is way up there. Lottie, we have to, whether there's some paranormal force or whatever, like she started speaking French with that Ouija board. Like there's something's going on with that. And we have to play that piece out. Are the men going to make it other than the one that we knew made it, Travis? Yeah, where's Javier? Where's Javi?

Yeah. Well, there's a good Reddit theory that Jave grown up was the artist that shot ahead. Yeah. Under an assumed name. I'm still not ruling it out. Because I'm still not ruling out that there's something more going out with him. Or they put a very strange tattoo on that man just to drive Reddit crazy, which is maybe the case.

He's got this massive back tattoo that looks all occult and weird. And the actor does not have that tattoo. We have the Taisa relationship, which you know is going to fall apart. And then that will probably get ugly. her kid having some lotty, lotty qualities himself. And then we have Jackie seemingly as an outcast. And we think it's her in the first scene of the first episode. People seem to think because she has the same necklace.

I'm not 100% convinced, but there's also a lot of theories that they're not actually cannibals. That we don't, nobody actually gets eaten. Now they do tip it off. What is it? Like in the third or fourth episode, somebody mentions to the, to Taisa, like, well, the cannibal senator or whatever, there's a hint that people thought there was cannibalism, but we don't know for sure that anybody gets eaten.

Yeah. I mean, that's the, it's a strong implication. And it's definitely sort of like the rumor that's dogging these women as they try to make their lives post-accident. I would be surprised. What I think is that we're going to, if we split into teams, I've, I've, I've, I've, it's probably cannibal no cannibal, right? Right.

Like there's a line in the sand and it's eating people and I'm going to be over here and you're going to be over there. So not to get too morbid about everything, but they've mentioned, they've mentioned alive a couple of times. Yeah. And the specific kind of cannibalism in alive is post-mortem. It's like their deaths can be our life, right? Yeah.

So it's possible that what we're talking about is someone quote unquote slips and falls or whatever. Oops. And then they're like to survive. we should like take their, take their bodies. It might not be straight up like, we're going to murder you for your meat.

You know, it's like, let's just make the most out of what we've got here. Yeah, but that wasn't insinuated in the first episode, though, and it was insinuated they were killing each other for food. I think winter is coming, though.

I think, like, winter will be the thing that galvanizes, like, the cannibalism on the show one way or the up. I think if it had been winter and, you know, Laura Lee,

the, you know, religious zealot, girl who died in the plane. If she had died in a way that she wasn't cinders, you know, that might be a question, right? It's perfectly good, good sustainable meat hanging out right there. Yeah, true. It's a good point.

Well, that was the paranormal side. What was your take on the plane crash? Because did the plane catch fire or did the teddy bear catch fire? Because if the teddy bear catches fire, now we're moving toward the lost thing. because watching it and I rebound it and I watched it and it really seemed like the teddy bear caught on fire which would insinuate their sinister forces. What was your take?

Chris, what do you think? I think that there is a little bit of what you were talking about the beginning of this episode, which is the unreliable narrator. And Laura Lee seeing something maybe that was just like a mechanical fire. Yeah. If it's not that, like if I don't know like really how a teddy bear just, burst into flames, but if there's some sort of

sabotage going on, I think that that's pretty relevant. I don't really... I was kind of like that feels like half of Laura Lee's vision and half of this plane's been sitting here for God knows how long and just blew up after it warmed up. That was my take on it. I would choose a non-paranormal interpretation. Like wherever I... Whatever backbends I have to do to make that work,

Like the deer with the bloody antlers, the stag with the bloody antlers that she saw, I'm just sort of like, I need to believe that this is all about being off your medication and something else. I just think it's a better show, if that's the case. Joanna, who's your number one draft pick for Jackie coming back for the reunion as an actress? Oh, I mean, I'm on the Robin Tunney train. Okay. I just thought of another one. Oh, hit me.

What is it? A little Claire Daines. See, and I was wondering about this. I just don't know if Claire Daines has like that much of a sense of humor about the 90s. Like I just, or just, has Claire Dane's ever done anything this fun? Like being in yellow jackets? So you're thinking more Cape Beck and Sale. Wow, because you're like, if I can't have one broke down palace after someone

happened. We went to Claire Dane. She turned this down. I was thinking, Claire Dades for the showtime piece. Sure. Yeah. I was trying to think of other WB actresses.

A little Joey Potter, Katie Holmes. Yeah, I was just thinking, oh, Katie Holmes. I was thinking anybody from any horror movie from 96 to 2000, basically. I think Rose McGowan probably has probably would not be cast, but would also be great on this show. Jennifer Love Hewitt. I would be delighted to see Jennifer Love Hewitt. God, Jay Love?

No one loses mine. Oh, my God. I still have Jay Love stock. That'd be amazing. Matt Campbell. I don't know. Screams in theaters. So, could I have that.

All right. Let's do predictions. Let's wrap it up with predictions. We should mention, I didn't mention this early. Joanne and I were texting during like the 5, 6, 7 run. And it did, I did think, I think maybe it was 5 and 6, maybe it was 6 and 7. But it did feel a little padded midway through this season. Like, I think this could have been an 8 or 9 episode season.

season. They strung it out a little, but I think eight and nine were really good. And even as some people didn't like the plane crash, I personally liked it because it was like, hope, oh no, we're stuck here. This is a wrap. And it's like, all right, now things can get weird. Nine usually is the best episode in a 10 episode season. But 10 is important because we're going to be wrapping up stuff, but also propelling. So give us reunion predictions, Joanna. I mean, my dream would be that Van shows up. My dream would be that she's played by Drew Barrymore who played with Houston's mom, the actress's mom

on Santa Clarita Diet. So yeah, Drew Barrymore with a little facial scarring and a ginger you know, die job. I feel like that would have come out. I think she, Drew Barrymore would have blown it on Twitter or on her talk show. On her talk show. Had a yellow jacket's cameo. She had like, like, Dax Shepherd on her

show and she's just like, by the way! I'm so excited about you. I am not going to make a specific plot prediction. I'm just going to point out that according to Wikipedia and like an IMDB and everything, that the director of the 10th episode is Eduardo Sanchez, who is the director of the Blair Witch Project. So. Oh, I'm going to be scared is what you're telling me.

Possibly motion sick. I think we're going to have some handheld running around the woods. I got so much and sick when I saw Blair Witch. Dude, maybe Heather Donahue should come back for the contest. Yes. Oh, my God. What is she up to? Wow.

That's a good one. Yeah, also the finale is titled Six Transit Gloria Mundi, which is, you know, what we say when we anoint a new pope. So I don't know if there will be some sort of like official crowning of something. Of Lottie? Yeah. She already has a crown. I don't know why she needs a ceremony, but sure. Christ, do you want me to start introducing you as the Antler King or no?

Because I can. That's why I'm always wearing a hat. I got to cover the antlers. Yeah, yeah. I guess the one thing we need to figure out. Did anybody else know who Adam, the artist who she, Sean ends up stabbing in episode nine, did any of the other girls slash ladies know who that was,

were they involved in any way? And what were his motivations for getting involved with Shana? Was it, I just fell in love with this person after our rear-enterer? Was it more sinister? Was he working with somebody? And there's a theory that the Christina Ritchie character, who's the only one that hasn't been in the room and seen his dead body yet, maybe they were working together.

That they were both citizen detectives, yeah. Yeah, that it's, I don't know, there's something there. Oh, no, no, no, there definitely is. I was, I was, that shake of the head was my reaction to how much I love Christina Ritchie in this role and, like, the interaction between Misty and the fake reporter that she has captive. Yeah, Jessica. Incredible stuff.

But the Reddit detectives noticed that Adam had like a camcorder, like an older camcorder on his bedside table, like when they were sort of looking through, looking for, when Sean was looking for the journals. And they were like, why would you have, I mean, he's an artist. So perhaps he's a multimedia artist. I don't know. But a lot of people think maybe there's tapes on there, something. I don't know. We'll see. But yeah, I think there has to be something more going on. Yeah. The whole like no internet footprint for that guy. That doesn't work that way. Yeah. Well, last time we did this, I gave Joanne and my biggest nitpick of, of, of, you know, the show for the first four episodes, which was the horrendous soccer scenes, which is just

something that we just as a society just haven't rallied around how to make girls soccer better in TVs and movies. I just don't understand it, but whatever. My nitpick this time, so she has a safe. She has these diaries in there that have all these incriminating things. It says there's so much interest in this team that they survive. And we know like over and over again, people have rallied back, come back. She lives in this pretty nondescript house.

And the combination to the safe is 2525, the flight number for the plane that crashed. What the fuck, Shana? And Shana's so smart, allegedly. 25, 25 is your safe combination? Really? That's like one of the first three things they're going to guess. It's not like she's living in some Beverly Hills mansion where it's like impossible to get in. and then it's, you know, you have this high.

She has this basic save she bought at like fucking Target. And then the flight combination for it is 25, 25. I thought that was absurd. I just watched the last episode of Mayor of Kingstown, which I highly recommend if you're deranged. But they unlock a meth dealer's phone because his combo is just his password is just his street address, which I was just like, on one hand, I'm actually impressed with the meth dealer for having it not be 1-1-1-1. But it was, I think that we're as a society failing password protection in television shows.

Yeah, 100%. But I'm positive. The fight number could not be the password of the safe. But anyway, it allowed us to move the plot along. I also, even though I didn't like some of the middle episodes, I really liked when she was at the club and saw the girl in the yellow jacket's uniform and had the flashback and it turned out it was her daughter. I thought that was a really good scene.

And even better, I think follow-up was the next morning when her daughter tries to blackmail her and then Shauna just mind wipes her. It's fantastic. I want to see Shauna do more of that. More of Shauna just completely manipulating people into the ground. She's incredible. I liked in this episode, a thing I really liked is that we saw sort of the origin of the masks. Because your question is, like, how do these girls get from this to whatever it is we saw in the pilot? And the idea that it starts with like Van and Tyson. and all of that I thought was really smart. What happens to the reporter in the basement? How does she go to the bathroom? Which is always my question with these. Your handcuffed to a chair day after day. Is it a bucket? I think they're doing bedpans, yeah.

I think Misty would definitely have no trouble. Well, yeah, she works in a car home. She would have no trouble with that. Well, something that I hadn't noticed, but the Reddit detectives pointed out is that when Missy's talking to her, like when she has the bold lip on, she's talking to her, She's wearing like coveralls and gloves. And they're like, I'm pretty sure she would have died right then and there if Juliet

Louis hadn't shown up. But yeah. So there's two types of people in the age, two types of men between the ages of like 35 and 55. Are you in on Christina Ricci or are you out? They all work for the ringer. I've never been a reachy person. but fantasy loves Christina Ritchie. Where do you stand, Chris?

Oh, I was, I think I was raised more by Juliette Lewis than Ritchie. Yeah, I'm more, I'm more Juliette Lewis side than California. But I think the Adams family just creep me out and I never got by it. I think Ritch, I think Christina Ritchie always has this, like, slightly affected way about her and all of her performances. So she's never struck me as, like, a tremendously great actress. That being said, I think this, this role is perfect for. her because Misty is constantly putting on, you know, a demeanor. I never would have thought that she was born to play Kathy Bates in misery, but it's happening.

I think she's phenomenal in this. That's a good point. And the amount of Andrew Lloyd Weber coming out of Misty's car cannot be understated. It's incredible stuff. Incredible. If you had to pick one person to die in episode 10 that you think is realistic, who would it be? Young or old? Could be either.

Oh, wow. Oh, Coach Ben, right? Coach Ben has to go pretty soon. Because I don't think you get too full cannibal queen anarchy if your remaining adults. And we know that Travis gets off. Yeah. I wonder also if Ben is one of Misty's first victims, you know? Like is Ben is Misty's first time killing someone or something like that. You never forget your first, Chris.

That's right. Chris, my last question for you. I don't think we've had the wallflowers yet. Could episode 10? Could this be it? Could we get a little 6th Avenue heartache or one headline? Is this the moment? Is this a thing?

I was personally holding out for gym blossoms, but wallflowers would be good. We haven't had Everclear yet either. I don't know where they've been. I don't know what, ever clear is got to be like, what the hell? We're right here. When Juliette Lewis movie. to California at the end of the season, we get Santa Monica. Yeah.

Oh, I was just looking up when the way by Fastball came out, but it was 97, so too late, I guess, for this, or 98, but. Everclear sitting there. I don't know. I know Joanna saw Euphoria, but the euphoria, they took the music budget and, like, quintupled it this season. To afford Steely, Dan. Yeah, it comes right out and hit them up by Tupac.

That had to have been, like, $300,000. But, yeah, I think there's. some good ones left for this one. All right, Chris, what's your final grade for the season so far? Oh, A minus B plus just because of the, just because of some of the scoobing around and whatever, like the padding. But yeah, this has been delightful. I put it in my top 10.

It's, it's been awesome. Joanna? Same. A minus B plus. I'm just having a lot of fun with it. Am I going to think about it long after this season finale? No, but I'm having so much fun. week to week and watching people get so excited about it.

And none of us have screeners for episode 10, so we don't know. Maybe we'll hear, you think we'll, think this will be episode 10? We haven't had cake yet either. Wow. I'm going to put this nine, I have a 1996 playlist that I'm just putting on the Instagram. Somebody made a playlist of all the bad Broadway, Misty must have been listening to for the last like couple of decades.

It's pretty awesome. Oh, do you think Misty was like, Do you think she watched Glee? I definitely think she did. Oh, my God. Yeah, she loved Glee. She was so mad when Glee got canceled. All right.

Joanna, we can hear you on the prestige pod. You're going to be doing Station 11. And Euphoria. And Ozark, right? Oh, am I doing Ozark? Wow. I'll be here. I think he might be doing Ozark, too.

Wow. Chris, did you talk Shay into doing Mayor of Kingston? Tomorrow. Wow. Congratulations. She made Shea watched 10 hours of Mayor of Kingston, and I think he got caught in multiple. strip club scenes by his children, like watching, watching, like, some of the strip club scenes

in Kingston, and he was like, I got caught by my child again today. I have to watch the rest later. Chris sent me a panic text a couple days ago that there was a double episode prison riot sequence in Mayor of Kingstown. And is anyone else watching this? It was honestly, you were like a kid outside in recess with no one to play ball with, just searching for a playmate. And then finally, found one at Shea Serrano. All right, this episode was produced by Kyle McMullen. We'll be back on Prestige. I hope you listen to the Euphoria episode we did on Sunday night,

and we have a bunch more coming, and we are going to be ramping it to gear. We have a lot of good shows coming. Ozark will be covered on the watch as well, obviously, and Station 11 will as well. And it was good to see both you. Good see you.