The Prestige TV Podcast - What Makes 'A Teacher' Compelling TV

Episode Date: December 8, 2020

Bill Simmons and Mallory Rubin explain what makes 'A Teacher' such compelling TV. This episode contains spoilers for Episode 7 of 'A Teacher.' Hosts: Bill Simmons and Mallory Rubin Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

The most important thing right now is for you to tell the truth. A report's been filed. We know the whole story. I wanted to feel free. I wanted to do what I wanted for the first time in my life. He's your student. That's like a monumental abuse of power. Everyone's freaking out about this man. The police came to my house today. What the hell's going on with you, Eric? Because Miss Wilson ever been inappropriate with you?

I love you. I love you. I wish you to warn for your rest. I can't eat. I can't sleep. I can't move forward with my life. I have to live with this forever. TV concierge.

My name is Bill Simmons. I'm Mallory Rubin. We just watched episode seven of a teacher. It's a series on FX. You can also find on Hulu. You can find on Hulu at 9. 901 on Monday nights, which the pandemic, I've reached a point in my life where I can't wait till 901 on Monday nights. I don't know why I like this show so much.

I think it's really well done. And last week, I talked to Mallory and I said, watch all of a teacher. And then we'll do TV concierge on Monday. What do you think? Tell me what you think through seven episodes. So to be clear, I had seen none of this show. I had not even seen a full trailer for the show. I was familiar with the casting, the premise.

I watched the first six episodes that had already aired all in a row on Friday night, late in the evening into the wee hours. And then this was the first episode that I watched at 901 per your very specific instruction and guidance. So between watching the first six episodes and then, watching the seventh one. I did watch the trailer for the season. It's been a very confusing sequence of events for me. What do I think? I don't even know where to begin. It's really something. I'm both excited and terrified to be here with you tonight.

Yeah. We're going to have to tiptoe carefully. Oh, God. Well, I will say for people who haven't seen the show yet, first of all, you should watch it. It's good. If you have seen the show, the seventh episode, it's kind of the aftermath. So those first six episodes, this kid falls in love with this teacher. He's 17 when they fall for each other but celebrates his 18th birthday during the relationship. It's definitely illegal. It's definitely not great. She's married.

And then it's going so well. And they have such a strong connection. And she's feeling so good about it. Like a dumb ass, she tells her teacher friend about it. An astounding moment. I'm still shocked by it. The teacher's like, you're glowing. I know you have another guy.

What's going on with you? And then she's like, it's Eric. It's my student. The friend's like, what? I'm reporting you. It ends up, as we find out in episode seven, goes to jail. County jail. Eric, the student, is now in college.

And he's kind of like the man. And he's got this reputation. It's the guy who bagged his teacher and he's in the frat. but as we find out during the episode, not great for Eric. And it's not turning out well. And this is the flip side of, I guess,

celebrity. I don't know any local celebrity. What would you even call it? The prestige of being the guy, notoriety. Notoriety, I think. Good word. But I thought this episode was important

because it established like, hey, actually that relationship, not great. Not good times. Bad times. Yeah. So, again, because I hadn't seen the full trailer, I don't think I knew heading into this experience

that there was going to be such a wide swath time covered. That was a shock to me. I thought that the bulk of the season would probably be the affair, the illicit affair. Me too. And that the, in essence, conclusion would be one of them telling somebody or them being found out in some way and then, of course, dealing with the consequences. The fact that that all transpired midway through the season and now clearly the second half of the show is going to be about them both, presumably. We didn't get Claire Wilson. We didn't get Kate Mara in this seventh episode, which was interesting. Presumably, the second half of the show will be about both of them coming to terms with their feelings, not only for each other, but about what has transpired in their lives. And this episode focused on

Eric processing not only what other people know about him, but what he knows about himself. And I think that this is probably a show where I won't be able to say until the entire thing is finished and perhaps even until a rewatch, whether I thought it was properly paced and whether I got the parts of the story and the insights into their lives that I wanted.

Because, again, we're recording this like the second tonight's episode ended. After the sixth episode, I was not into the pacing and the change of how I thought this was going to unfold, again, based on nothing, but a clearly misplaced assumption. But now I'm like, oh, no, this is actually more interesting. This is actually a more compelling character study and an assessment of trauma and grief and confusion. The choices people make self-destructive tendencies, what inform those tendencies, how can

you grapple with something that society norms, literally laws tell you is wrong and that feels right to you? Can it possibly be right if it is to everyone around you so clearly wrong? If we get half of a season of a show exploring that, I think it could be pretty interesting. Couldn't agree more. The way I would compare it watching this, because at some point, I don't know, around episode three or four, they have such a good connection and the two actors are so good. Kate Mare, who I've loved forever. What's the guy's name, Eric the lead? So his characters, Eric Walker, the actor is Nick Robinson.

And he's from Love Simon or one of those shows that my wife and daughter watch. He's a good actor. And their connection, the way it builds, and then when they kind of find each other illicitly, it's almost like watching the movie, like a movie like The Town, when it's like these bank robbers who are, you know, assaulting bank security guards and shooting cops and you're kind of rooting for them to get out of it. It plays this Jedi mind trick on you. And that's why I thought tonight's episode was important because it was like, yeah, actually,

that was really bad. She's in jail and he's really fucked up. And that's why we have laws against this stuff. They did a nice job of like kind of rope-a-doping it, I thought. Well, that's one of the things that I appreciated about the, again, shocking exchange. between Ms. Wells and Claire Wilson, the teacher and her colleague, Catherine. Mostly I was just, I was shouting out loud.

I watched this with Adam. My husband got him to watch the whole thing with me. And we were both like screaming at the TV. She's not really about to tell her. Is she because it's just, there's no part of a, frankly, a rational mind that would think that was the right decision. Yeah, but even worse,

you're rooting for her not to tell her. You're like, no, no, tell her. Keep the secret. I'm glad that you said that because that's actually why that scene is important. It's a check not only on Claire, but hopefully on everybody watching at home when Catherine says, because what's Claire's justification, remember? Well, he's 18. So first of all, he was not 18 when they started sleeping together, right? Because the weekend getaway is for his 18th birthday.

They have been sleeping together before that. So they started sleeping together before he was 18. But what else is a part of that conversation? Her colleague says to her, that is such a colossal abuse of power. And that's the other thing that the show actually has an obligation to do. The ages, of course, the legality of it, of course, but also the nature of a power dynamic and the nature of society structures, how people interact, what is expected of them, and how everybody else, again, not only the people in that situation,

but everybody else around them is inherently going to respond to that. I thought the other thing that was astounding, astounding to me was the husband's response to learning about this. We can get through this? I want to make it work. Not only did you cheat on me, but you've committed a crime and you're about to be shipped off to county jail and you have shamed, brought shame upon me in our family, right?

Yeah, you'll never work again. You're a convicted felon. Yeah, there's a lot of stuff. I'm sorry about all the guitars. I want to make it work. Yeah. We're going to talk about that guy five minutes from now because he's in a weird way

of the most important character of the show. Nate from Succession. I can't wait. This show preys on everybody who is growing up like me, there was always that one teacher and every horny, 15-year-old, 16-year-old, 17-year-old, always fantasized about,

oh, that one teacher. Oh. If only, it was never going to happen. And if somebody had pulled it off, everybody else in school would have reacted the same way they'd do in that show, which I think there's so many authentic things about even when he goes to college in this episode tonight. Oh, yeah. And they're like, oh, it's it true? And they're asking questions. That's exactly what would happen, by the way.

I know people don't want to hear that, but that's how it would play out. And I think the authenticity of it is what makes it when he's lying at the end of episode seven on mushrooms going. And basically, I miss her. And you're like, oh, man, this dude is fucked up. This is why this lady had to go to jail. I'm glad you brought up his peers, basically. First of all, I would like to just spend a few moments here talking about Cody. And I hope that that kid has a long and fruitful career.

Give Cody a spinoff immediately. I want Cody's years of Texas. He's the one who was in college already with the longer hair. Oh, yeah. That guy's a good actor. It's great. Completely magnetic. I don't think I, he, you know, he had a face that looked familiar and I thought,

what have I seen him in? And then I was scanning his IMDB and I don't think I actually have. He just looks like he could have been in. Everybody wants some. My wife loved them too and was like, where's this guy from? I love this guy. Yeah, he's definitely, he's a big winner on this show. He's tremendous.

But the thing that's interesting about what you just said is that it's not just Eric's fellow classmates, all the people he meets at college who are lauding him for being this, for being this, this legend as you said, this local legend has sprung up around him. But he had those moments earlier in the show in the first half of the season where he would sit in his bedroom and look at himself in the mirror and say, I'm the fucking man. And again, I think that the show is, you know, it's attempting to be a couple different things at once. It's clearly attempting to be a little bit salacious and a little bit shocking.

but also, I think clearly now, to be a, you know, to examine the psyches of the people who are living through these things. And he, despite multiple moments in this show, in this episode, where he kind of leans into that, you know, he's put on the spot with the fellow pledges at the frat, oh, you know, a full bush or landing strip. And you can see on his face, like how totally despondent he is, how much he wants to flee from that situation. but he plays along, right, because that's part of life, is trying to fit in. And he's still kind of at war with himself even in that moment. And then the girl he meets at the party, right? She's lauding his sexual prowess. Where did you learn that?

And she brings up she knows too, right? She saw him at the party and that's why she was drawn to him because he's that guy. And the fact that he knows that everybody thinks of him that way, that he's that guy. but it's not actually that he wants to run away from that and distance himself from that. That's still the thing in his life that he's most drawn to. Right. Well, it's the coolest thing he has going for himself, which I think he probably eventually starts hating himself for it. It's like people see me as this person.

I thought this was cool, but I'm pretty quickly self-destructed here. I mean, the other piece is that he was really in love with the teacher. And they did a really good job of establishing. It wasn't like some bogat. Like this show, I think one of the reasons I'm fascinated by this show is it could have gone so badly. There's so many ways it could have gone wrong. The way his friends interact is really good. They really seem like actual friends that would behave this way.

All the reasons the connection with the teacher grows stronger and stronger. Like she takes them on campus. I forget what episode that is. And they go to the party quick and then they sit out. And she's kind of feeling him out. And it's just really well written. It's really well acted. It's really good.

I'm really glad you mentioned that scene, though, because I think that, again, at the end of the season, we'll look back at that as one of the most tragic moments. Because if you recall, what does she say to him when they're sitting on kind of the side of the porch, sipping their orange juice? Don't miss this. Don't miss this time in your life. And that's exactly what's happening to him right now, right?

Why does he leave the induction ceremony at the frathing. I don't want to do this. Well, what don't you want to do? Any of it. Like, he can't exist in the moment, perhaps with the exception of with his new hallway mate, Micah and their magic mushrooms out on the quad because he's sitting at his desk and instead of writing his term paper, he's Googling Claire. He's at home with dinner, having dinner with his mother and his brother's, presumably this one moment where he can approximate something like normalcy, you know, back in his child at home. What does she ask him? Have you started going to counseling? He can't escape this. And again, he simultaneously, it's like a constant state of dissonance for him. He doesn't

want to talk about it and think about it because how could he move forward if he's always pulled back into that morass. But it's also the only thing he wants to think about because it's still consuming him. Right. There's nothing wrong, but there is something wrong. He, yeah, I mean, he's kind of going back and forth. He crawl on top of a truck going however many miles per hour and said faster, faster, faster, and then let go and was hurled when they came across a log. And into the sandy gravel of the Austin streets. So the show makes the key decision, I think, of they make them 17, almost 18. Yeah.

If he's 15, first of all, I don't think they could have this show. I think it's almost like, oh, my God, this is like freaking crazy. The way they have it where it's like, he's almost an adult. And as you're watching it, it's like this Jedi mind trick on you where you think like, well, he's almost 18. And then you're like, oh, my God, no, this is bad. And the way it plays out is obviously really bad. They do that, but they also have her husband, who's just the biggest loser.

Matt. And she makes a point of saying, like, this is the first guy I ever fell in love with. This guy lost my virginity to. And he's this jackass who just has the musical instruments in the band. And the dads who rock phylum do not come out well in this one. it's that great for them. I have so many thoughts on the husband. Some of which are very judgmental and some of which are actually from a place of real empathy.

I think actually that part of what you're supposed to be asking yourself is, wait, what's so wrong with Matt exactly? He likes to rock. Yeah, the worst thing that he did was fill a room in their home with musical instruments that he didn't talk to her about getting out to be. clear. As I told Adam, as we were watching, I would also find that unacceptable if that had happened without a conversation. But he seems to be fairly doting. He, you know, he's with her for all of their doctor appointments. They're talking about getting pregnant, trying to get pregnant. He's doing in the lawn, lawn work, interested in her life. How was your day? You know, she, he gets home from the trip. It's like, I want to go to bed. I want, okay, well,

I want to fuck. Okay, fine. Like, he seems to be pretty game. And of course, they're not completely on the same page, but when is anybody in a marriage? And that's the one thing so far that I really wish the show had a firmer hand on. Why is Claire making the decisions that she's making? I think that a little too much weight in emphasis is being placed on us seeing her steal a lipstick in the first episode. and then we get some insights about her upbringing and her life,

the challenges that she's faced, this sense that she never really got to live, always felt the pressure of having to be perfect, this reverse rebellion as she puts it. But you know if you're going to do something like this, that it's wrong and it's going to blow up your life. She doesn't seem to totally know it's wrong, though. But she doesn't seem to totally know it's wrong because she cares the most about not getting caught, not the this is wrong part.

But that's the thing, right? So like, where are you seven episodes in understanding Claire's disposition and mindset? Does she really think this is okay? Is the contrition only because Matt's embarrassed, her brother's embarrassed and they got caught? Or does she actually carry culpability for the transgression? I don't totally. No, now maybe that'll be what's explored in the ensuing episode. I have an answer. Okay. Go ahead. I think she's obviously a little off and a little damaged, right?

And they established this in a couple different ways. Most importantly, the fact that she falls in love with her 17-year-old high school student. Like that, let's start there. But she gives us the backstory of I met this dude in college. I didn't really, I was kind of, didn't really talk to a lot of guys back then. this is my first major boyfriend, guy lost my virginity too. And she presents herself like, I'm just this meek in my own shell. I never really was in charge of anything person.

And this relationship she has with this student is the first time. Like she kind of blossoms out of that, right? And she's in charge. And she's being sneaky. And she's telling the guy to delete the things. And the whole rush of that leads to at some point she realizes, she stops realizing that it's wrong. And that leads to when she tells the friend.

She's like, oh, man, I found this guy. It's unbelievable. It's the best sex I ever had. Who is it? It's Eric. Eric, Eric from your class? Yeah. She has no idea it's bad.

It's like she's gone off the deep end. Right. So that would be my case. I think that that's all right. Clearly there's this aspect of the thrill, doing something shocking when she'd never really allowed herself to let go at all and just swinging kind of instantly to the far extreme of what actions like that could look like. But again, I just think we need a little more than I stole one lipstick and I had a difficult time growing up.

I felt a lot of pressure to be perfect. And then, you know, and there's more where we get insights about substance abuse in her family. But so you're missing one story. about some sort of trauma from which he was a teenager or something? Not even that. It's less that we need more information about what happened in her life. We need more insight into how she has processed it and how that has led her to make the choices that she's making right now. She goes from Eric kissing her in her classroom and her telling him, get away from me. You can never do that again.

You could ruin my life. to throwing him eyes at homecoming and saying let's go fucking a car that happened quickly so I just want a little bit more about what's going through Claire's mind during all of that

I've always like Kate Mara and it's weird she's had an interesting career she's kind of like she's in Shooter with Mark Wahlberg she's in House of Car it's like she's pretty malleable career-wise but I don't think has ever, you know, she hasn't had that kind of Rooney Mera Girl in the Dragon Tattoo kind of like lead role with like the unbelievable director or anything

like that. I've always thought the most interesting thing she ever could have done was been in a movie with their sister where they have like some psychotic sister relationship, some indie movie where one of them ends up killing each other in the end or something. I think she's really good in this. And one of the reasons I know she's good in this is because, again, you're kind of rooting for her to get away with this heinous thing. And when she blows it, it honestly was one of the best scenes of the year.

You're like, oh, my God, I can't believe you think this is a good idea to tell your friend this. So now we don't see her at all in episode seven. And she's getting out of jail in episode eight. And we might as well do predictions. And then we'll get out of here. I assume they're going to see each other again. I assume there will be a reunion. I assume it will go well for a day or two days.

and then the wheels will come off fast, would be my guess. Do you think that husband Matt is picking Claire up from county jail? Like, did he stick around? Is he still there waiting for her? Well, it depends. You think he has a gig that day? They might be playing at Mario Saloon.

We got this new hoodie in the bluefish cover. We're really excited about. That's actually like quietly. the single master stroke of the show is not just the scene that she, when she chooses to, to tell her colleague, but the fact that she does it at his gig. Yeah. It's at his gig. She has to leave the gig. She's so horrified by him. She's like, let's go outside and have a cigarette. Oh, Matt. Tough stuff for Matt. I think that, um, Matt's like, I only want to be with you. Coming up next. Oh, poor Matt. Really rough, rough stuff here for, for Matt. That's a, that's a

biggest loser. And then Eric's mom not realizing that something funky was going on with the sun and, hey, I'm just going to go away for the weekend. And I find it hard to believe she didn't have a better sense that something was fishy. I found myself thinking about that. Could a kid get away with that? I think, unfortunately, the answer is probably yes. you know, we know that they have odd schedules, the work hours. Eric has to watch his brothers often. Yeah, that's fair. He's dealing with a lot, juggling a lot. She's trying her best.

There are a couple moments where you can tell she's wondering, oh, she has that line about it was very nice of her to, you know, to spend her Saturday doing this for you. And she's clearly like, this is something is uncommon. My mom would have known right away. She would have known in five seconds. You know who actually, I think we should mention here in the same context, the brother, the cop, who doesn't have a follow-up? Why are you telling me to not issue a citation to your hammered 17-year-old student?

What's going on here? Yeah. Why are you asking me to risk my job for this kid? We got to do a prediction. So first prediction, Matt's next gig, probably heavy on Mellocon and Croson. Maybe a little Anna begins. Long December. He's going all in.

I think this brings the best work ever out of his band. That's one prediction. Okay. I'm excited for Mrs. Potter's Lullaby from Matt. Yeah. That's a nine-minute version. Is there a chance Matt murders Eric and this is how this ends? I'm really glad you mentioned that.

I've been thinking a lot, a lot about the prospect of a murder. I'm really torn. There's a part of me. Maybe like a bigger part of me than I'd like to admit that thinks the show needs a murder. You know, I thought after Claire told Catherine about Eric, oh my God, she has to kill her now. Oh, yeah. My first response, I'm not proud to say. She has to chase her down in the parking lot and like bash her head in with that bottle of liquor that she's holding.

I gotta say that might be a better show. In some ways, she just runs her down in her car. I would not rule out a murder. But one of the things that I'm wondering is how much time is going to pass. I'm not ruling out us seeing the next two decades of their lives in the few remaining episodes. I think we're going to span quite a lot of time here. We're established like it's 2014 was when he was Googling. Right.

So basically they have six years to play with. That's a lot. And Eric's like 25 in real life. So they could age him appropriately. Yeah. Is he going to stick with the plan? He got into Texas. Is he going to stay with the plan to go to med school and live his life?

I don't know. I mean, this isn't a spoiler alert because it's in the trailer. But if you try to avoid trailers, you've been warned. There's that shot of him in the trailer clearly aged up, you know, different hair, different styling and a line. And who knows, sometimes stuff from trailers doesn't make it in. but how he can't eat, he can't sleep, he can't move forward with his life. And I think that based on that, it seems like this is clearly heading in the direction of Eric saying, I need to.

And this will probably be next episode, I would think, unless we get a whole, maybe we'll get a whole Claire episode, actually. And then they'll come back together in episode nine. I think episode eight is Claire because we just got Eric. And then episodes nine and ten are reckoning with their desire to still find a way forward together. how that happens what it means for Matt. Do you think they aged him better than Dominic West at the end of the affair? I really hope that we get a shot at some point of them standing in front of a menu at a Montauk lobster shack where the price of chowders, $77. Like 40 years for now?

Yeah, I think the one ending we can rule out is they end up happily ever after because the giant group. the show is. Yeah, the grooming disclaimer at the beginning and end of each show, I think, would maybe prohibit the happy ending. I assume they make a go of it for two days. It goes badly. And she probably moves to try to find some new community where she's hoping. Maybe she changes her identity, but then somebody finds out they connect it and she realized

she can never escape this mistake. I think there was a crucial clue buried in that. Dylan Thomas poem that'll end up bearing fruit in the finale. I'll have to reassess the text. Last question. Are you glad I made you watch this? Well, I am. First of all, it's always a joy for me to to share culture and content with you. As you know, so thank you. I don't know if it's quarantine and how long it's been, frankly, since I've been around other people, but I've enjoyed myself. This has been a confusing, distressing, distressing, disturbing. and, you know, compelling viewing experience.

So thank you. Distressing, disturbing, and compelling is what we're looking for during the pandemic. Last, last question, is there going to be a season two? Because we've seen season twos of shows before that I had no idea was going to be a season two. What are you thinking? Anthology? Oh, every season, it's a teacher.

No, I was thinking more maybe Eric becomes the protagonist. And like the affair was supposed to be a one-season show. They ended up getting five seasons and building new characters in all this stuff. It's probably three seasons too long. But, I mean, conceivably, if the ratings are good, I could see them bringing it back. Amazing. I don't have this came here. Anyway, all right.

Mallory, a pleasure to see you as always. A teacher. Pleasure to be here with you. You can catch it on FX or on Hulu where they run the old FX. And the cool thing about this show for a binge, the episodes are like 23 to 25 minutes. Yeah. Great. So you can bang it.

out basically three in an hour. You can bang out all six in like two hours, ten minutes. Yeah. The entire season is shorter than one episode of binge mode. It's great. Miley Rubin, thank you. This is TV concierge. We'll see you later in the week.