The Prestige TV Podcast - 'Winning Time: The Rise of the Lakers Dynasty' Series Premiere Recap

Episode Date: March 7, 2022

The Ringer's Bill Simmons and Joe House discuss the premiere episode of HBO's 'Winning Time: The Rise of the Lakers Dynasty'. Hosts: Bill Simmons and Joe House Producer: Kyle Crichton Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Benefer is back. Brad and Jen are friends again, and Paris Hilton is somehow still making headlines. 20 years later, we're living in the world that the 2000s tabloids created. On this series, I'm going to tell you the story of a decade of American life through the trash we love to consume. From Spotify and the Ringer podcast network, I'm Claire Malone, and this is just like us, the tabloids that changed America. Listen on Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts. This summer serve up the cookout classics, Heinz ketchup, and Kraft singles. Every good burger needs a layer of perfectly milty cheese and thick, rich ketchup. We all know it's not a cookout without Heinz and craft. This episode is brought to you by Netflix's remarkably bright creatures.

What if a Pacific octopus held the key to a mystery that could heal your heart? Well, that's Tova's reality. An elderly widow working at an aquarium. Tova forms an unlikely friendship with the crumudgeonly Marcellus, whose remarkable intelligence leads her to a life-changing discovery. Watch remarkably bright creatures with your remarkable moms this Mother's Day weekend, only on Netflix May 8th. All right, it's the Prestige TV podcast.

We're about to cover Winning Time, Episode 1 on HBO. My name is Bill Simmons. I am here with Joe House by Buddy from College, who was also on the Ringer podcast network on Fairway Rowland. Little ringer gambling show as well. Not more than a little. It's the whole NFL season. 14 and 8.

Yeah, we both have credentials. Yeah. We are so excited to talk about winning time. This was the show really made for us. I have no idea if people under 30 would like it. The reviews have been really good. It is based on Jeff Perlman's book about the 1980s Showtime Lakers, a team that we are both very familiar with.

I got to see them in person. I went to, I think, the 84, 85, 87 finals. I think I went to like, I don't know. Every one of the home games in Boston, except for one of them, saw Magic a bunch of times you did as well. Regulgently came to respect those Lakers teams. Yeah, I was just going to say you intensely loathed those teams. I did while they were a big villain, but, you know,

begrudgingly came to respect them, especially they came into the garden and 87 and beat us the whole thing. I never expected. I heard about this show. I heard they were making a pilot. It's like, well, that's not going to work. How are they going to cast magic? How are they going to cast Korean?

They're going to make a show about this? And then the guy who runs HBO, Casey Blois, who I've done some stuff with, he was telling me, like, a year ago, like, this show is, like, the real deal. This is going to be a great show at whatever. This show is the real deal. You love this show. I do love the show. It's fantastic.

What do you love about it? Give me your top things you love the most. First of all, it's way over the top. Like, the convention, whatever, the conceit, the thing where where the guy turns and talks to the camera and talks to you and brings you into the narrative. You know, so it lets you're, you're in on the joke. The viewer is in on the development of the narrative. So you like that because that's probably like the hardest thing I've had with this show is

the staring in the camera, which is in Adam McKaytrick. I like it because it tells me how they're tackling this. Right. With a little tongue in the cheap. Yes, yes, exactly. So it's not. And it, it permits me. me to not have to treat everything that happens as though it's like a factual development.

It's not a, you know, it's not all the president's men. No, and it's not a, you're exactly right. It's not a documentary that's going to try and track, keep, keep, you know, so there's a lot of artistic license here. And that's the over the top that I like. It reminded me also second thing of the excesses of that era. Oh, yeah. Well, and also like just the old way of doing things, which is it's got, it dips into a little bit of what made Mad Ben so great when it was on. I was like, oh, man, I forgot that. People were like that. We were little kids during this era.

But yeah, you see it. You can feel it in a lot of the office stuff, right? The way the women are treated versus the men, how it's all white guys and decision making powers, all that stuff. I mean, we came into our teens and then early adulthood in this era. was, you know, like these teams were, for me, like, you know, the, the pinnacle of prominent American culture. But did you think the thing that's amazing to me, because it really does seem like this show is going to be successful.

And Casey, and he's done some press about this, and he's like, I'm not a basketball fan, but this show really resonated with me. I liked it. To me, it's not about the sport of basketball. It's about all the things around it. And I think when they were trying to figure out if they had something or not, he was mailing the pilot to a couple of people in his life

who aren't huge NBA fans. Wasn't like, my opinion doesn't really matter. You and I were watching this anyway, whether it was good or not. There's no basketball in the show. Well, yeah, eventually there is. We'll get there. But we're talking about the beginning. Yeah, it's a little more.

It's a little closer to like, it's like a little succession, a little madman and a little bit of like what McKay does in some of his movies where it's like a little tongue and cheek. trying to have fun, really almost cartoonish characters. That's right, larger than life. Yeah.

So what they did is, so for instance, what they do with Jerry West in the first two episodes of this show, they dial him up by how much, right? By 40%. I mean, it feels like more than that to me. They make him kind of a maniac. Yes. And it was, I've watched the first two twice. The first time I watched.

watch this. It was really hard for me to wrap my head around. Like they're turning like John C. Riley as Jerry Buss. I had to get over that hump. I had to get over the hump of Jerry West, the logo as this fucking maniac. Pat Riley, who really emerges in episode three, four, he's kind of a loser, really, for the first couple. It's hard. So it's just like you almost have to reset your brain, remove it, put it back, and just watch it for what it is. That's exactly right. And that's the perfect way of describing, you know, how, because they've set up this over-the-top thing with these characters and they only like loosely bear resemblance to the, to the people that we know with the actual history, we've all kinds of room to go explore the space. You know what I mean?

Like these are dramatic renditions of larger than life characters in a larger than life story that happens to be true, which is just wonderful. But, you know, it, it, it, it, lets us just focus in on the tale and enjoy the tale. Well, the star is Jerry Bus. The star is Jerry Bus. And let's do that quick aside. We know from the stories that preceded the arrival of the series that this series created a rift of the friendship between Adam McKay and Will Farrell.

Right, because he cast Michael Shannon, I think. And Farrell wanted it, but that was fine. he just went with another actor, but then I think they weren't getting along as well. Michael Shannon didn't work out. Went back to the, he just immediately calls John C. Riley. John C. Riley does it.

And then John C. Riley was the one who called Farrell. Not Adam McKay. That's what came out recently, which was really rough because, I mean, like, McKay and Farrell was closer as, like, you and I. I know. That's right.

Exactly. So it was handled poorly. And McKay is like, I'm doing what's best for the show. But it seems like he at least partially sacrificed the friendship. The reason, well, he sacrificed the friendship because he, he, um, messed up the communication. Like, he didn't tell his buddy.

Like, I think it was already, I think it was already to a bad place. The reason that I took us down that aside for that little backstory is because I can't imagine anybody else as bust now. Having seen it, I've only watched four episodes and I watched, I did the same thing as you. I watched the first two twice. He inhabits bus in a way that I believe this is Dr. Jerry. bus. Now, I've only seen Bust and, you know, the film clips and so forth, but. So I think he gets 90% there. I think he's there from the charisma, the, yes, the funny stuff.

But I think there was a sexuality to Jerry Buss that was kind of undeniable that I don't know if Riley gets there, at least in the first two episodes, because I remember, you know, Jalen and I, we spent a year with Magic doing TV with them. Yeah, I'm not going to spill the secrets from it, but I don't think Magic would mind me telling this story. We asked them once, because we were just fascinated by Dr. Bus, especially because at that point Dr. Bus was pretty old and, you know, the old guy who ran the Lakers, but obviously had this incredible bachelor life. So I asked Magic once if Dr. Bus is at one table in the forum club, and Hugh Heffner is a couple tables down and they both like the waitress who has the better chance of getting the waitress

and magic without hesitation was like dr bus wow he was like without hesitation's like when dr bus put the charm on everyone everyone melted like butter and it didn't matter if it was like somebody who worked for him or a woman that he was trying to seduce or whatever he was just that i don't know if riley 100% got there with that but i loved everything else about it i'm glad you used the word charm, though, because I really do find a kind of charm in Riley's depiction of us, right? But did he feel like somebody who could steal anybody's wife or wife or girlfriend if you really wanted to? No. And that's, I think, the one piece, but I don't, how do you find an actor who can even do that? I mean, that's, I mean, it's got to be. It's like, it has to be like that Kevin Costner kind of

quality. Right. Well, and part of it is also like the physical looks. Like, you do, you, yeah, the old pictures of bust, he's handsome enough. Yeah. But it's. It's not like he's knocking people's socks off. So it's a pretty unvarnished look at him, and especially as you get to some of the later episodes, which I don't want to spoil, but it's a little unvarnished with him. It's definitely unvarnished with Magic, West.

Yeah. Watching it, I was trying to think, who would probably be the most unhappy, probably Magic, because in a couple, not just like the sex stuff in the first two episodes, but even like having him swear, like, magic kind of takes pride

and not swear. or at least he did when I knew him. And maybe he swore as like a 19-year-old, I don't know. But I thought he was a little more TV version than the guy I spent time with. So that's interesting because what I thought might be most objectionable. And, you know, you're having commentary in the back of your head because these are real-life people that we've known for 35 years now. Yeah. Or longer than that.

The intimate reflection of his relationship with his parents. like how true to life could that be? Is that like, is that all drama? Or I mean, you know, that his mother had the reputation. He was very close with magic was very close. Are you talking about magic or bus? Magic. Yeah, we're talking about his parents.

Very close to the parents. I think a lot of that was. We get tons of intimate like portraiture of. I think that's, that was pretty genuine for the most part. Okay. Yeah. All right. It was a revelation to me.

Yeah. You know, I mean, it shows. I think he was 19. He's a kid, exactly right. Super vulnerable. What, three years older than my daughter? A mama's boy. His mom was tough on him, deliberately tough on him.

She was very spare in the praise that she afforded him because she was trying to keep him humble. And she was not having any of his charisma. It was, you know, I liked all of that. She didn't like it in the hot tub. He bought a brand new tub for her. We might have spoiled that. That might have been episode too. I can't remember.

Well, it doesn't. It's not really a spoiler. He buys her a tub as a gift. So the biggest issue with this show, just hearing about it, was hire a unicast magic and Kareem. Everyone else is realistic. But Kareem is 7 foot three. Magic, you know, magic's a big fucking guy.

Even like when we were doing TV with him, just you would see him coming down the hallway and he'd be like, Jesus Christ, that guy's 6'9. Like, you're not around a lot of 6'9 people. And he felt out as he got older. So you needed size is so important with both of those guys. The guy who plays Kareem is 6-11. The guy who plays Magic is probably 6-5, so they're able to cheat with it. But I did feel like the size was okay with both those guys.

How did you feel? I agree with you. And especially in, there's a scene in, I can't remember, first episode or second, where Norm Nixon, the character and Magic end up on a basketball court together at Donald Sterling's house of all places. Oh, yeah. We're spoiling episode two, though. Oh, is that? I couldn't remember that was one or two. Okay. Well, but that the size discrepancy there felt true to life, felt accurate.

Yeah, it's true. Kareem, you're not going to find a seven-foot three actor. His skyhook, which we see later on in future episodes, it's, I wasn't getting flashbacks. It's passable. It's, okay. It's, you know. But the point is, it's good enough. It's, it doesn't take you out of the show where, I,

I think in the wrong hands or you're just like, God, I just can't get past this. Well, that's right, because we, which I never felt that way.

We have so many sports shows in our lives where we've complained about the veracity, of the sport, the playing of the sport. Like Bill Durham, Tim Robbins. Yes.

Now, he claimed he threw his arm out pretty early, but watching this guy who's supposedly this 104 mile and hour thrown is, and he literally isn't throwing the baseball correctly.

It's a shot put. All right. So we've, you know, Yeah. And I think in this case, they have to seem like they played basketball. Both of these guys do. And the size is there.

So that was a bonus. And so that was, I think all good. They created enough room to me in terms of it's not a cartoon. It's just there's a lot of serious drama element to it. But there's a cartoonish vibe to it, I guess. Which I think they leaned into because I think they realized they had to. Yeah. So it's like, how factual can we be while also having a lot of fun with this stuff?

you know, some of the stuff they do with Jerry West. Like, I just don't think he was that much of a maniac, but I feel like they thought they had to lean into it. So we have the big, the big, so this starts with the HIV press conference. So we're going all the way forward to 1991. And then they go backwards. Did you like how they did that?

Because I, you could, I could have gone either way on that. Because you could have told me, just start with Jerry Bust and I'm good. Yeah. I don't know if I needed the press conference. I mean, it gives you like a sober starting point.

You know, it's, it's pretty dramatic. It's pretty emotional. And it, would you have done it? Yes or no. Where are we going to go from there? I was fine with it.

I didn't have any problem with it. I would have started with Bus. Okay. Bus is, I think, the key to the show. He's the best part of the show. Agreed. I love every Jerry bus scene. Agreed.

I like how he works these different worlds. And especially in episode two, there's some really good stuff with him in Red Arbac. But in this thing, he has, he's trying to buy the Lakers from your guy, Jack Kent Cook. It's 30 days to get the money. This is the NBA we grew up with, which was a fucking mess. This is the height of the cocaine era. This is the height of the media writing that the league is too black to ever really catch on.

This is, we're about to enter tape the laid playoff games. Playoff games that weren't shown. I'm so conflicted. The Washington Bullets were the raining chance. Right. This was it. My era. Your Washington bullets

are getting blamed with the Sonics for like ruining the league. I know. It's like the lowest ratings ever. CBS is panicking. The visible stars in the league at that point.

And this is one thing I didn't feel like they did a good enough job in episode one of is Kareem's the biggest star in the league. Right. And he's just completely

inaccessible. Especially to kids like us. Yeah. We just see him. He's got the goggles on. He's skyhook. He's methodical. But not fun.

It's like you wouldn't have a Kareem poster. And I don't know how I need to give it more time. I don't like how one note the character is in the show. So I wonder like were they almost afraid of Kareem because he's such a vocal presence now, right? He writes essays for these different places. And were they afraid to like really go there with Kareem? Because Kareem's reputation at this time was he was a pretty sullen guy. So they get into some of it.

But this was like once upon a time, Jim Murray, the famous LA Times column, this. Kareem was so standoffish with the media that Jim Murray did an entire column about interviewing Kareem's back. Okay. Well, so I can't. Did they hammer that home hard enough? I don't know. I can't think of a single time in the first two episodes where Kareem smiles. I'll go back and watch again.

I can't think that might have been pretty accurate. I don't know if he was that happy. It's my question. That's the question. That's my question. And all right. Well, regardless, he's the biggest star in the league. He had forced his way to the Lakers before the 75-76 season because he told them when

free agency comes, I'm leaving. So they trade him. Goes to L.A. They trade so much that they never have the right team around them. They have some bad luck. The Kermit Washington thing, which they reference, I think, in the pilot, happens a year before and kind of submarines a team that could potentially do some stuff. Bill Walton gets hurt on the Blazers.

So the Cs have opened up for the Lakers and they can't put it together. They did a good job setting that up. They also did a good job of setting up the Lakers Celtics thing, which was very pre-2004 Red Sox Yankees. Celtics beat them every time. Yeah, no, of course. Lakers had one title. That's it, near the tail end of the West Chamberlain thing.

But the Russell Celtics killed them the entire time. It's the thing that antagonizes West so much. It is the bane of his existence, literally. that the thing that drives him most crazy was the inability to beat the lake of the Celtics and he's so affected by it at least from this artistic rendition that he can't even enjoy when they win.

Right. He can't enjoy it. We'll talk about Weston in the second episode because he comes a way more prominent figure. In this episode, Bus has to buy the Lakers, 30 days to get the money. Magic has a chance to be the first pick

to have the old rule back then that you could kind of take it to the wire if you're the guy. And if he doesn't like the money they're offering, he'll just go back to school because this actually happened with the Celtics. Huh. They drafted Byrd a year before he actually played for us, and he decided to go back to school. I don't think they ever seriously negotiated,

but then it just, the league was different back then. There was weird loopholes. There's some good stuff in episode one with Magic and his dad clashing over the contract that they tapped into that I liked, where Magic is so, certain he's worth 600,000 year because that's what Byrd just signed for. He just beat Bird in the title

game. Right. And Magic's dad is like, that's more money than I've ever made in my life. You should be happy with 400,000. You're being selfish. But Magic, I like because he turned into such a good businessman as an adult, right? He's just like, I know what I'm worth. I'm worth this. Yeah. It has to be this number. I'd like those scenes, didn't you? I did. Yeah, I did. I thought that was, it was a good, because of what we know, we have that context about magic. But he could see the chessboard. That's it. So we have that.

We have Kareem, who's difficult, we have West, who's an angry asshole. We have the thing that's true, that's in the reporting, especially in the Jeff Perlman book, that West Wanda Moncrief. That was the thing that I had always heard throughout my life, but then the book, like, definitively locked that down. He doesn't waver. Yeah. I mean, he expressly tells the ownership that he does not want magic, that he thinks it would

be a mistake to. take magic and, you know, he wants Moncrief. Can we litigate that decision for a second? I don't think it's like the worst take in the world. I mean, magic became one of the five best players ever. If they don't take him in that spot, that's a catastrophe. I'm just saying Moncrief, I think, was the second best two guy of the 80s and also got hurt. The reason that you can't take Moncrief is because you're trying to create

You're trying to create everything. Yes. But West doesn't see that. I'm just saying I see his point. I don't agree with it. I don't know how you don't take magic after the title game. He was incredible. That's right.

But I see his point. They had Norm Nixon. Norm Nixon, for people listening now, I would compare him. He wasn't like one of the three or four best point guards, but he was right there in the next level. So maybe he's, who would he be now? I don't know. I was going to say, he, he wasn't like a Trey Young level, but maybe like one notch below?

Goren Drogich? No. No, a level higher than that. What's in between? Maybe like Tyrese a year from now, but he was like, the point cards we grew up with were these old school point guards who had the ball at the time who really ran a team. Tiny Archibald, Mo Cheeks, Norm Nixon,

Gus Williams. That's why I was trying to think of a conventional point guard. There aren't, you know. Right. So maybe there's not a, not a, like maybe a better Jalen Brunson. sure that's fine he was fast he was one of the fastest guys in the league

really good yeah so west is looking at like we don't need a point card we have one we get Moncrief I think Moncrief can be one of the best two guards in the league not wrong yeah we saw Moncrief at various stages of his career I was passionate about in my book about

that he wasn't in the Hall of Fame yet I couldn't believe it because he's basically the best two guard of the 80s behind Jordan and also And was hurt half the time. Had the defense to go along with it. That's the part of it. Incredible two-way guy.

So fulcrum of this really good Bucks team that can never get over the hump. So I don't know. That wasn't insane. And then we have Nixon who doesn't want to give his spot, skip up his spot. That's a plot. And then we have to have Buss

convincing magic to be a Laker, which leads us to the most interesting scene that I don't know if it popped up in the reporting or not where bus and Jack Kent Cook the old Lakers owner who bus is buying the team from who still feels like he has some saying it

and they meet Magic and his dad and they're talking about a contract and he serves it's like your classic fish out of water scene where it's like what was that fish? I don't even that fish he was telling them it was like sea gums

no no sand dabs they are there I've had them in northern California I figured you've had them what the fuck are they It's just like a small white fish. It's tasty. But it is unique to, I, you know, I don't know the full prominence of it.

That's like rich guy country club food. Yeah. Yeah, that's right. He's trying to make them uncomfortable. He is. You serve that course when you're like, you guys are in my world now. Yes. That's right.

You're not right. That's not something they could have gotten in Lansing, East Lansing, Michigan. And Buss, who, you know, I think you see in the first episode, he's a people reader. So he reads like, oh, Magic and his dad, this isn't their kind of food. Magic says, can I get a cheeseburger? And bust is like, you know what? I want a cheeseburger too. Like he just gets it.

And I thought that was a really cool piece of this. So I want to ask you. And this is. So this leads to the boy thing. Yes. Well, and, you know, the entire depiction of Jack Kent Cook. So I have a very different experience with Jack Kent Cook in my life. he played a prominent role in my development as an NFL fan.

And as a fan of the Washington Redskins, he owned the Redskins and transformed them from a team that could be competitive with Dallas and was always a good threat for the NFC East when the Kilmer and Jurgisand days into a team with Joe Gibbs as the head. coach that for a decade was right there, could win the Super Bowl, did win the Super Bowl three different times, and also lost the Super Bowl to the Raiders. I mean, transformative and was beloved in Washington, D.C. Yeah. Extremely diverse Washington, D.C. You know, a working class town in that era in the early 80s all the way up until, you know, 91 was the last Super Bowl that we won.

So he was never, he never had that late career. Oh, there's this, because there was a one thing that happened in 1991 there was was washtonian magazine wrote this piece about him and he had this 30 million dollar libel suit he did against them because they said he it had allegations about game fixing and his endorsement of racist views that he thought were so outrageous he demanded not only did he sue but he demanded um you know an apology and the retraction and they did it they did it they did the whole thing. You go back and read it and they printed a giant apology. They made a substantial donation to a charity in his name. So he got them to take, walk back, whatever is in there. I had never, you know, who knows? You talk about these rich guys from the 60s and 70s. I'm sure

they weren't Boy Scouts, but the boy part really surprised me. That so, yeah, in the show, he is not just, and then we're talking about winning time again, he's not just kind of, he's not just condescending to Magic and his dad, but he calls Magic a boy in a deliberate pointed way. He's like, what are we talking about, boy? The way he says it, it's dripping with racism. I don't remember that. And it's, I mean, he was lionized in Washington. So I was like, wait a minute, this is, is this a caricature? Or I haven't, you know, gone back and looked at news stories to see if this undercurrent was occurring simultaneously. So there, yeah, all the stuff

that I read about him, I don't remember but who knows? Yeah, right. These guys, I'm sure there's stuff. So I was surprised by that because I didn't know that. That was probably my big revelation. He's the biggest villain in the first two episodes. Well, yeah, and Red Arbac was the other one.

So I know they have to, you know, you're making the Celtics of villain. They really hammered down this. Larry Bird was the white, hardworking guy. and magic is the naturally gifted guy. It kills me to say it, but that was part of the perception. I mean,

Bird was being sold as the Great White Hope. It was marketed that way. It was marketed that way. Deliberately. You could read between the lines with some of the stuff that was written and said about Bird. And that was the...

You didn't have to read between the lines. No, you didn't even... You just read the lines. Yeah, you read the lines, or you can read particular lines. But then Bird from 84 to 87 has the best four-year run, not only the 80s,

but, you know, it's in the running for best in the history of the league. I mean, we always talk about how do you measure the best players ever, peak versus career.

His peak is way up there with anybody. I know. I get it. But in 1980, they were still like, eh, is this because he's white?

Why did they give him $650,000 a year? Is it because he's good, or is he white or both? I was always in the, this guy's amazing camp because we had his rights that whole Indiana state year. My dad and I watched those games because they would show some of them. And they made the big run that year.

They almost spent the finals. But it was like, this is our guy. So we were watching that and as much as we could that year. And we were like, oh, my God, this guy's really good. We had no idea it was going to turn it to what it turned into. Sure. Magic seemed like a safer bet. But the thing with magic was like there was no six, nine point cards, which I think West is making all those points.

It's like, all right, fair point. there weren't a lot of prototypes of this. No. To this day. Questions. Did we like the opening credits? With the music, dun,

dun, it's loud. It's really, you know. I disliked it initially. The second time I saw it, I think it's, I've Stockholm syndrome with it now.

And I'm kind of into it. The thing, there is one at one fleeting glimpse of a kid on a skateboard with his shorts falling down for whatever reason. It's like, I don't want to see this ass crack. Okay, so you're lukewarm on the credits. I like the song.

It's just like, you know, the montage is a little in the facie. Jack Kent Cook, are we okay that they turned him into a cartoonish borderline racist for the purpose of advancing the Jerry Bus character? I mean, he's dead. What's he going to say? I mean, he was transformative to my Washington D.C. sports experience.

I'm being interested to see the Cook family weighs in. I'm trying to think who's going to be the maddest when this comes out. I feel like the Cook family is probably the favorites. They're like, wow, was our dad really that bad? I mean, he did have some weird stuff. Like he had the most high profile divorce, I think, ever. I think he lost the most money to divorce. He did.

So some of that stuff was true. He set the record for amount of money. He lost a divorce. Played by Danny Noon. from Caddyshack. Indeed. That's right. Dene.

The West piece, which I'm sure they'll pay off down the road. And then in terms of like drama that they're setting up. So how can bus not only transform this franchise but compete with the Celtics and his magic, his meal ticket? In general, him seeing that this team, and we'll get into it more, we'll do the episode two that this team could be a vehicle for something bigger than a basketball team.

So I'm glad that that vision was established in episode one. It creates the basis for the narrative arc and they did an awesome job of giving us the snapshot of how flat and dull and what a dud

the forum and just the whole experience was. So what would you have added what do you think they missed? Hmm. That's interesting. What was, I think to me that what they probably missed was,

and maybe you don't need it, but I'm just thinking for people under 30, I could have gone a little further into Kareem because I actually think he's more important than maybe he gets credit for in this first episode. I would have liked a bit more of like the basketball context. Like, yes. You know,

more of we we hear them talk about the challenges of the league and you know the ratings and so forth but they could have done a bit more on you know i don't i'm not a i'm not a film guy but no but there should be a scene where you could have even made it up where bus is trying to decide do i want to get in this league or not and you have the proxy character and like well here are the problems. Yes, exactly. The best part in the league is not accessible at all to fans. We just came off two straight Seattle, Washington finals.

That's right. The Sports Illustrated just wrote a actual entire feature about it as the League 2 Black. Right. We had this cocaine problem that's becoming a real problem. And CBS is starting to tape the way. Like, I just wish somebody had laid it out in like 30 seconds. Yeah, like a series of those headlines.

Yeah. scrolling headlines. They did it a little bit, but I don't feel like they did it strongly enough because the thing that to me was really missing was he was zagging

in not just the way of like, I see this potential with the franchise. He was zagging against like it was really easy to get NBA franchises in 1979. Yeah, right.

And it wasn't a league. People were like, oh, cool, I got to, I bought an NBA team. They're getting passed around. The Celtics had, Jesus,

they must have had five or six owners in the 70s and 80s. you know, until they finally got, the ownership group got settled down. I don't know, what was the Washington? You had A. Poland forever. Yeah, A Poland bought the caps and the bullets

and had the Capitol Center out in Landover, Maryland. So what do you want from this show? You've seen three. We'll do episode two for the next one. But ultimately, where do you want to land? How do you want to land the plane? Because the fun thing about this show, at least to talk about is we know what's going to happen.

I know. That's right. We know they're going to try to hire Jerry Tarkhanian. We know that Paul Westhead's going to be the assistant of Jack McKinney. We know that Jason Segal is going to play Paul Westead. We know Paul Westead's going to take over because Jack McKinney gets hurt. These are not spoiler alerts because these are all the facts of the situation.

How are they going to get us to Pat Riley? That's part of the thing that I'm kind of intrigued by. Where's Pat Riley? Yeah, where's Riley in this? We know Spencer Haywood, who was a lot of. a pretty famous player in the 70s, pretty checkered history bounced around a little bit, but we know he shows up on the Lakers and has such a big cocaine problem that they have to kick him off the team during the finals.

I think the thing that I'm wondering about the most in view of what I've seen from these first two episodes is the true dramatic, you know, topper is the Celtics and the Lakers playing basketball against each other and the drama of what those games. That scenario, bird and magic and all that stuff. So how do you get that where the show right now is predominantly like a drama, a fun drama, a funny drama, but a drama? We didn't mention McKay directed this one. It's really well directed and really, really well acted.

And they did a smart thing because they knew that they had, they were relying on a couple people who weren't necessarily like the greatest actors, right? Like Quincy Isaiah, who I thought actually was like fairly a revelation as magic. I thought he was captured

a lot of his charisma. Cream, you're gonna get what you're gonna get with that one. He was fine. But all of the other people around, like Jason Clark, I've always really liked,

he plays West. John C. Riley, who we've liked forever, he's bust. He's a tour to force. The lady who played Jeannie Bus, they did a nice job of like it really does seem like

hasn't really blossomed in a genie bus yet. And she's a little awkward and, you know. But she's taking it in. The Claire Rothman character. Claire Rothman. It was really good. And there's some more people coming. There's a lot of situations where the people are actually like overqualified

to be in the show. Like Julian Jacobs is in the show eventually as Pat Riley's wife. It's like, wow, she's a real actress. She's like barely in the, barely in the show. And so I think they went over. overboard on the supporting characters. So that was smart. It's good. Yeah. I like it.

All right. So your final grade? It's a A-minus for me. I think it's an A-minus. You just have to be prepared going in that it's not a documentary. They're going to play loose and fast. You just have to let yourself be taken in by the spirit of winning. Enough cocaine for you? Not nearly enough.

Naked ladies for you? Plenty of that. Yeah, we got a nice little Playboy Mansion scene There's all kinds of stuff going on. All right. House and I are going to be back next week, breaking down episode two, which unfortunately we've already seen.

But this was produced by Cal Creighton. We'll see you on the Prestige TV podcast. A little bit later, we have a bunch of stuff coming this month, so keep coming back. Spring just slid into your DMs. Grab that boho look for that rooftop dinner, those sandals that can keep up with you, and hang some string lights to give your patio a glow up.

Springs Calling. Ross, work your magic.