The Prestige TV Podcast - 'Yellowjackets' Check-in

Episode Date: December 6, 2021

Bill Simmons and Joanna Robinson check in with the Showtime series 'Yellowjackets' and talk about how they feel about the first four episodes of the riveting mystery drama. They also take a moment to talk about the juicy details and theories about the latest episode of 'Succession' (including spoilers) (36:30). Hosts: Bill Simmons and Joanna Robinson Producer: Steve Ahlman Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Book on Hilton.com or the Hilton app and save up to 20% to get the stay you expected. When you want savings, not surprises. It matters where you stay. Hilton, for the stay. All right, it's the Prestige TV podcast. My name is Bill Simmons. I'm here with Joina Robinson.

We're going to talk about a show called Yellow Jackets, which is four episodes in, very binge watchable. It's on Showtime. We've been meaning to do this for two weeks. I'm glad we have four in our pocket now because I thought I knew what this show was. And now after four, I'm not, it's gone in some directions that I wasn't anticipated. But I think we could say it's lost meets Lord of the Flies meets Mean Girls. What else would you throw in? That's so funny. At the top of my nose, I have lost Lord of the Flies and Alive.

And the Donner Party. Yeah, and some True Detective season one with, you know, the like antler imagery and it gets really gruesome. I'm just curious what you thought it was. I thought we were going to be on the island way more. And I thought they would use current day. I thought they would get bang out a lot of the island stuff. and then eventually kind of move into present day. But we're in present day way more than I thought.

It reminds me there was a show that I loved in 2005 that lasted nine episodes. It was called Reunion. Yeah, yeah. Do you remember this show? I do. And it was about a 20-year reunion. It was this group of friends. And one of them was murdered, but you didn't know who got murdered.

Fox canceled it. And it was, I think it was my first experience of just watching a show and then that's it. You just never know how. Never had our answer. But it was the same kind of thing where it went back and forth and there were secrets. And it's a gimmick that I think is really hard to pull off. The key to this show is the actors that they cast for the four lead parts really do feel like adult continuations of the kid actors. What's been the most impressive thing about this show to you?

Yeah, I think so the this playing with the soccer team crashes in 1996, I think it is, right? somewhere in the Canadian wilderness. And I think the idea of casting 90s actresses like Christina Ricci and Juliette Lewis as our adult cast members is so brilliant. That I agree with you. I think the casting is the key to the show. Melanie Linsky, who wasn't huge in the 90s, but has been sort of an underappreciated, like, ace in the whole, for a long time now in independent film

and stuff like that. I think putting all these women in these roles really moves the ceiling on how weird things can get and how emotional they can get. Do you know what I mean? Christine Ritchie is delivering

a truly unhinged performance. Juliet, like, Natural Born Killers Lewis can do, we know she can do whatever. So this could get really weird if it wants to. They tapped into the Juliette Lewis pieces that I like. Which are.

Likeable, but just kind of deep down a lunatic. And kind of like kind of trying to straddle both of those worlds. You mentioned Melanie Lindski. What do I know her from? Because she's like one of those. I know her, but I don't know how I know her. But she's always good in whatever she's in. But I don't know what her like signature role is.

Or does she even have one? I don't think she has like a signature role in the indie world. But I think mainstream 90s fans might know her from ever after. she played like one of the stepsisters and ever after. Right. That's when she was first on my radar. But then she's just in like a million, you know, Sundance films since. And is always, and she gave a really, if you ever want to like go truly inside the mind of an insecure but talented actress, listen to her interview with Mark Marion.

Because that is one of the most truly emotionally honest Marin interviews I've ever heard of my life as Melanie. Interesting. Yeah, yeah. She's tremendous. And it's such an interesting casting because she does look so like mumsy in this role. And then she says stuff like,

I skinned a rabbit from chin to anus. And you're like, oh, what show am I watching? So, yeah. Yeah. And they do a good job of the kid actor of her played by Sophie Nelisse, who you could see is kind of a little bit, a little under the range.

but is the kind of one who might be having an affair with somebody's boyfriend. Like she's one of those people in high school. And then grown up, stay at home mom, pretty boring life. Husbands obviously cheating on her. And you could just kind of see her wheels turning for a couple episodes. She gets in the car accident with the guy who's sitting on her and all of a sudden, you just kind of know it's going to go saying. And then she ends up basically reliving her the high school life that she'd ever had in

the fourth episode. I really like the first two episodes. I thought the third episode was a throwaway. And I thought this fourth episode was really good. The third episode I thought was disappointing. But the good thing for me was I watched three and four together over the weekend. So three was, but I didn't think three really paid off. But I thought the pilot, let's go back to that for a second.

Yeah. The pilot was really good. It accomplished a lot. It introduced a lot of characters. It did a lot of things. It brought us back and forth. I just thought for an hour of television, I was pretty impressed. I still feel like the Lost pilots, the best TV pilot I've ever seen.

That was two hours. This was only one out. Well, have you, did you see any of the Wilds, which was Amazon sort of like girls in a plane crash show that came out of? My daughter watched all of those. I stayed out of that one. I watched it just because I am so fascinated with Lost. And so I was just sort of like, okay, what's this? You mentioned Reunion.

That was one of a million different shows that were sort of chasing that. lost brass ring and no one has quite got there yet. But I think this is trying to do something. I think it's smart that it's just going weirder and more gruesome and possibly a cult. We don't know. Right. The first image of the show is somebody running for their life, falling into a pit, and then these like, you don't know what they are.

Are they natives? Are they animals? What are they that are, like, ready to eat this person? And you don't know what's going on. It's like, who are these people? Yeah, but they're wearing the tattered, like, soccer uniforms, so you know they have to be the girls. Just like, what happened to these girls that they got to this point?

Yeah, so the tension between that flashback and the present is really interesting. You're basically, you know how in lost they had flashbacks for every episode and, like, every episode is centered on a different character? This show is trying to do the flash forwards and the flashbacks at the same time, trying to like mix it up, giving us like 20 years in the future and then also, you know, what happened to the before the crash? All of that sort of in the mix. My only question about yellow jackets right now, because I am really interested in these women

and what happened to them, is, are there too many bonkers mysteries going? Like, there's just so many mysteries zooming around here. It feels like they're throwing everything at the wall. You've got like a creepy kid. You've got, you know, a suicide. The senator's son. Yeah. Is he Michael Myers?

Is he a sociopath? Yeah. Yeah. Or she the creep? I don't know. There's just like, I was trying to make a list of all my theories. And I was like, there's, I love a theory show, but there are so many on this series. Well, we have.

So you have Shauna, you have Nat, you have Misty, you have Tesa, the four like kid adults. Yeah. But then you have Jackie, who's the one who starts the show, who's the captain. Mm-hmm. Who's, we see her in like the first scene after the credit. she's getting in on with her boyfriend in high school and you just assume she's going to be the star. We have not seen the adult version of her yet.

So the easy theory would be she's the one who's sending them the postcards. She's alive. We just haven't seen it yet. She might not be alive. They might have killed her on the island. And that's, I want to see how that plays out because they presented that character

with the same importance as the other four. But we haven't seen adult Jackie yet. That reminded me of a couple, two other influences I was thinking about which was, I know what you did last summer. Yep. And Pretty Little Liars, which is, you know, I know what you did last summer for ABC family audiences or whatever. It's one of the best tropes of like, I have a secret.

Uh-oh. I just got a letter. I just got a postcard. I just got a video. Oh, somebody knows. Who knows? I got to figure it out. Uh-oh.

I'm unraveling. Now all my baggage is popping back up. Yeah. We've seen this a million times. But it works. And the other one, the other reference that I thought of actually while you were talking was Do you remember the film Now and Then?

Yeah, Christina Ritchie's in that movie. But that's about like four women in the 90s flashing back to their childhood in the 60s with a killer cast. So it's giving me like unhinged now and then vibes. Especially because there's four women here.

Are 90s teen actresses having a comeback? Because we have Kirsta Dunst in the new Jane Campion movie, who's the lead actress of that? You have Ritchie, you've Juliette Lewis. Who's missing? Who's not getting there just? Is there a Jay Love Hewitt back?

Oh, I would love a Jennifer Love Hewitt come back. Nev Campbell? I mean, I think she's doing the new screen movie. Neve, sorry, Neve Campbell. I think she's doing the new. No, Neve. No, Neve, you're right. No, I'm right.

Neve. Neve Campbell. I think could never screw that up. Yeah, Nev Campbell is in the new screen movie. So, yeah, everything old is new again. But I just, I do think this use of Juliette Lewis especially is so smart in this show. As you say, she's doing everything you want Juliette Lewis to do in a prestige high concept show. I was thinking about Reese Witherspoon, who I'm incredibly frustrated by some of the choices she's made.

As you know, Amanda and I are the co-presidents of the Reese Fan Club. This is the kind of show I wish Reese had done instead of three different versions of the same kind of show, where it's like the Little Fires, whatever that show was. The big little lies. Yeah. And then this morning show where it's just like, she's playing these variations of herself, but it's not, none of the characters are really that interesting. I wish she had gone a little method.

Like it would have been fun to see her as like Shauna on this show. Or just play a character, Reese. Stop just playing yourself like with different jobs, you know? But I think Ritchie's been, Ritchie is the big winner this season so far where you just kind of forgot. what a good actress here. She's so weird and creepy in this. Yeah.

She's, she, like, you know, she's played, like, didn't she play Lizzie Borton in something? Like, she's played literal, you know, murderers before, but nothing has creeped me out as much as this woman, especially because at first she's sort of the easy, easy guess for who might be sort of pulling the strings in the present day storyline. But now I'm fully off that bit. And I'm just like, no, she's just a really odd duck who I genuinely, I mean, they're. all did horrible things in the woods, we can all presume. But, like, I think I started, I'm starting to identify with her citizen detective stuff where she's like, should you go home and pin some stuff on the cork board? I have one, obviously.

And I was like, I want a cork board to pin my theories on. I'm with her, you know, so, yeah. Yeah, they did a good job of setting up on the island, this person who's just been completely marginalized team doesn't care about her. And now this is the first time she can grab some power. and leading to her destroying the flight recorder, which anytime that happens at a show, you're like, oh, you're a lunatic.

Well, she's two lost tropes together. The reason she gets to take power in the beginning is because she has like babysitter med training, right? So she knows how to fix basic wounds. That's basically what made Jack the leader-in-loss because he was the doctor, right? And so you can run around like the doctor and make a bunch of medical decisions for people.

And that's what she's doing with her like babysitter training. And then, but she's also the Terry Quinn's character, John Locke, the character that didn't have meaning and purpose until they came to this isolated place. And all of a sudden, they have a taste of power and they don't want to go back because they were, as you say, so, marginalized in their real life. There's just a bunch of, like, they just put a bunch of lost stuff in the blender. Like this week, they discovered essentially the beachcraft, which is a big lost plot. You've got a character on psych meds who's running out of pills. that was an abandoned lost plot. That was supposed to be what Ian Summerholder's character

was going to be, like a bipolar schizophrenic person running out of meds on an island. So, you know, they're doing real loss plots and then abandoned lost plots. But there is enough additive stuff that I don't feel like I'm just watching Lost, you know, in the recycling bin. I don't remember Lost having like impromptu amputation.

They did, actually. Did they? When was it? Well, they were going to take a character's leg off with a door, a door from the hatch in season one, Ian Summerholder. But then they decided that was too brutal. So then they just let him die instead. But Yellow Josh is like, not too brutal for us.

I love that the origin of this show came from. Do you remember it was 2017, they announced that they were going to do an all-female Lord of the Flies film somewhere, some major studio. Did it actually happen? No. As far as I know, it's still in production these many years later. But then this debate kicked up on Twitter, which is not a real place to have a debate, but that's where people were debating this anyway. And it was like, would girls go as unhinged as the boys and Lord of the Flies do?

Could girls even, are they even capable of something like this? And the creators of this show were basically like, have you been to high school with girls? Have you met teenage girls? So they put together this show sort of in response to that debate where it's like, yes. Girls can not only do what, you know, go as feral as boys, they might even be worse in that regard. What do you think of the show's relationship with men? Because you could argue the five most interesting characters in this show. I don't even think it's an argument or all female.

The five characters, the show cares the most about are the female characters. The men are kind of on the side in some way, right? You have like the maniac son. You have the cheating husband. You have the amorous mechanic. I have a lot of questions about the mechanic. The amorous mechanic feels like he's got more stuff coming. You have Travis who ends up just hanging at the end of episode three.

But it doesn't seem like it really wants the men to be that involved. They're kind of like these moving pieces. But I feel like that's going to be the strategy throughout the season, right? Yeah, I mean, Coach Ben with the, with the one leg, feels like he's got to be the first one to go. He feels like the likelyest suspect to be our first post-crash fatality that we haven't seen yet.

But no, you're completely right. This is a show where all the men are peripheral in some way, plus ones to the core four. You know, because trying to do the math of who survived. There's like 19 people who survived the crash. As far as we're aware, only five people are alive, as far as we're aware. Only five people are alive in the current storyline.

One of them was a man and he has killed himself. He didn't get before he got any screen time. So you're absolutely right that the men are just sort of very peripheral. Because again, I think it is an examination. And I wanted to ask you about this. And it's an examination of the female teenage psychology. But also, I don't think it's just a reference to the Peruvian soccer player playing crash that this is a soccer team. So I wanted to ask you as like a sports expert, like soccer dad, like, what do you make of this being a soccer team and the power hierarchies there, you know?

So interesting. When Tesa, when she takes that kid's leg out, the slide tackle, that was like sociopathic, right? Like that's one of those things. I think a team would be like, wow, you're a maniac. I can't believe you did that. I don't know if there's actually any coming back from that. But soccer teams do have that, right? There's a couple of alpha dogs, and especially on girls' teams, the herd kind of follows the one or two kids.

So it's interesting to think of that concept on the island because you would think that would hold. But as we're seeing in this one, that's all the rules are out. Like whatever the hierarchy in the team was, we have different rules in the island. That's why you have the bookware manager all of a sudden is gaining power because she has different skills than everyone else. My biggest nitpick on this show is how bad the soccer scenes were. And I don't know if we've ever talked about this, but this is one of my passions in life is, for whatever reason, terrible soccer scenes in TV shows and movies.

I don't know what it is about Hollywood, but I think they feel like they can just put a bunch of people on the field and it's outdoors and it's a soccer field and then close-ups of people running and then we're good. Like people will buy that it's a soccer scene. There's always like these breakaway, where the breakaway will last half the field. They always have to try to pretend the actress knows how to play soccer.

Now, Tastas is like not bad, actually. Like out of all the ones in here, but the soccer was bad. I mean, like, there's been some lifetime movies with some of the worst soccer scenes in the history of mankind. These were bad. And I guess there's no way around it because you're hiring actresses and you're kind of hoping. But it's amazing to me in the CGI era, they can't figure out how to CGI soccer scenes. They're able to see GI in amputated leg. There's no way that actor has a real amputated leg.

We can't see GI have some soccer? Come on. Who has done, like, who does soccer really well? Like, is Ted Lassow competing or is that also terrible? Ted Lassow's okay. Okay. There's a lot of creative editing with that. I mean, Bend it like Beckham, which I think some people think is a good movie.

Yeah. The lead actress in that is so bad at soccer. My daughter won't watch it. She's like, this is insulting. to anyone who likes soccer. What are we doing? It's like you have a basketball movie with somebody who can't dribble.

So, you know, like victory, which is, I think, the best soccer movie ever. They cast real soccer players. I'm not saying this should have done it, but I thought that was really goofy that the soccer was that bad. On the flip side, the music choices have been lights out.

As a child of, I was, you know, the 90s is probably when I cared the most, about music, they're just, they're playing the hits, man. All like some good underground stuff, like there's some elastika. Like they're really like, they really nailing that 93 to 96 range in the best possible ways. I can't wait. I can't believe there's not like a giant Spotify list of all the songs they use. Maybe it exists. I don't know. Oh, I think there is one actually. I saw it. I saw it floating around somewhere. I'll send it to you. They crushed it. Yeah. I call it lithium is the channel and I'm serious, but they've crushed.

a lithium soundtrack for this. Also, the opening credits, which are very like VHS, just very 90s. Disorienting, yeah. I mean, the worst opening credits, I think, of all time are the morning show. Okay. Okay, this is just like, you're still like, you're feeling bitter about morning show season two. The worst theme song of all time.

The Yellow Jackets is like, all right, we're back. These are some good thing. So are you worried about how this season plays? out and what is your biggest nitpick so far? I mean, I guess here's the deal. They said they wanted to do five seasons of this and I'm like, I don't see five seasons of this at all remotely. I think this would be a killer one season show, maybe two season show.

But when you're laying the track for so many mysteries, who are all the girls who are part of this like cannibal cults, who died, who survived, what's going on with that the senator's kid, like all that sort of stuff? like, what's up with the, okay, Amherst Mechanic, by the way, is like my new favorite. We should write a lifetime. Amherst Mechanic? Called the Amherst Mechanic.

That should be the Spinoff Show. That was your phrase and I'm going to stick with it. You can take it. Yeah, like, there's some theories floating around that that guy, A, isn't real because he's only ever interacted with Melanie Linsky's character. Oh, wow. Yeah. That's a good one.

Or B, that he is the younger brother, Javi, grown up. They just don't know. but that's a, you know. His interest in this woman seems really forced. Yeah, yeah. Like he's like, like he had a plan from the get-up. Yeah.

Like he, like he bricked her and made her rear-round him. Yeah, exactly. Or he was hired, maybe he was hired by Jackie? Yeah. I mean, that's a possibility.

I love, I would love the idea of Jackie still being alive. But like the, we're four episodes in. It's a 10-episode season. They could really just wrap this up 10 episodes and I think I would be happier than to think about it for five seasons. Do you know what I mean?

That's a good topic. Shows that should have just been one season. Because Homeland is the ultimate answer to this, right? Yeah, yeah. What a perfect first season. If Homeland just ends with Brody blowing everyone up and that's like that last episode, which I think was the initial plan, that would have been amazing. Yeah.

Like a jewel box of a season. You know what I mean? And you talk about it forever. Or like if True Detected had been one season and done and they hadn't tried to like revitalize it and revitalize it and revitalized. it, you know, with diminishing returns, then we would still be talking about True Detective Season 1, I think, a bit more than we do these days. So, yeah, there's plenty of shows that don't know when to quit. We're not, we're not going to talk about succession too much,

even though this is a big week to talk about succession. We'll do it at the tail end. But, but that's a show where they're all talking about just doing five seasons, and that feels right for that show. Like, any longer would feel too long, any shorter would feel like a miss. So, like, five seasons, five and out. I think honestly should mostly be the max for shows, is how I feel. I'm with you. Four or five seasons max, especially with in the prestige era, 10 episodes, really feels like 22 back in the day, right?

I think what we had with Lost, which is now 15 years old, basically, or maybe even more than that, I just think there's no way that's that many episodes. No network show is ever doing more than 13 of those, you know? That being said, you know, when we talk about something like Lost, the advantage of advantage of having 22 episodes a season is then you get some really weird episodes that they can't really do anymore because they don't have

to, you know, you get terrible filler episodes and then you get like the weird one where they're just trying to get the VW van to start. Right. To Tanaka's dead. Like that's the kind of episode that you can't have in like a 10 episode season. But with the 22 episode, you're like, what should

the gang do this week? And sometimes that's gold. And then sometimes it's terrible. Well, it's like those old 70s, 80s, 90s music albums where there's always like those two songs. We need two more songs. Do you have anything? Got to fill it out. One thing I was taken with yellow jackets,

I do feel like lost, and I know you're with me on this because you once devoted an entire podcast to Lost. It feels like Lost Impact isn't what I would have thought it was compared to some of the other iconic 2000s shows. And I think it's because the last season people, were so upset about. There's never had, like, there's never been a lost renaissance.

There's never been like, oh, lost his back or like, and I don't know if it's because it's not on a streamer. Like, I really wonder what would happen if Netflix was like,

it's on Hulu. We're buying Lost. It's on Hulu. Because I think, I mean, it has to be Netflix. It has to be Netflix. If Netflix was just like,

what they've done with like manifest and some of these other shows or you, where they're just like, hey, here's a show. Like,

my daughter would never watch lost. But if Netflix gave it the Netflix kind of bump and just put it on the main page, I guarantee a whole new generation would watch it because I feel like it's kind of in purgatory right now. Yeah, that's funny that you say purgatory. I think it had a little bit of a kick over the pandemic. There was a big anniversary of the show over the pandemic.

And I think it did get some people to watch the show, but not in that mass way that you're talking about where like a new generation discovers friends or the office. You need the 15 year old girls. Like, Graze Anatomy had the, had the, oh, yeah, yeah. That was like, all my daughter's friends, they were all watching it. And I think it became a thing. And you became a thing, which, I mean, how did that happen? That show, talk about a show that's unhinged.

That show, that show needs medication. One of my favorite things about that show is that Penn Badgley, the lead actor on that show is, like, my character's a horrible person. And then all the people watching are like, oh, but he's so dreaming. And he's like, no, he's a terrible person. What's wrong with you? He's a handsome Dexter. Yeah, exactly. All right, so yellow jackets, just putting a bow on this.

Yeah. I could see a world where I finished this season. Yeah. And I'm not back in. I agree. I'm like, I'm out. Good luck. I enjoyed my 10 episodes.

I'm done. Or I could see getting to the 10th episode and be like, I can't wait for this to come back. And I really don't know how it's going to play out. A lot of it's going to depend on, as you said, too many mysteries. Too many hmms. and I think you can overdo it with those. You talk about nitpicks. I have to say that, like,

I think they could ease off some of the backstars. I mean, I think we've gotten backstories for the four main girls now, so maybe they will. But I think that is just, you know, the one we have this week for the Juliette Lewis's character with her dad, etc.

That kind of stuff, I'm like, that is when you are in danger of getting too close to Lost, and I think you should try to zag away from Lost as much as you can. So I think they should sort of ease off the throttle of I hope they'd,

do of doing like the teen girl backstories because everyone carrying this terrible burdensome secret to the island is not as interesting as everyone carrying this terrible burden secret. It's not an island. They're in Canada. But like out of the woods. All the all that weird secret-y stuff that comes out of the woods is more interesting to me than what they got up to before the plane crashed, you know. Agree.

I feel like they'd get found if they were in Canada, just FYI. They are in Canada. They're supposed to be in the wilderness of- That's what I mean. I think they would get found. Yeah, 19 months in the Canadian woods. Also, like, why don't you just go south, start moving, follow the water? I don't know anything about survival.

I would be dead very early, but that seems to me to be, I guess you're supposed to stay where you are. That's the rule of survival, right? I think that's a real. But I feel like after a month or two, I might want to wander south and see if I hit civilization. There's some male-female stuff that they might tap into as these are. episodes go too. Like if they actually, we know they're going to be cannibals. Yeah.

And is it, do they, do the woman all go, yeah, let's go for the men first? How does that, what's the hierarchy of the cannibalism? I don't know. I think it's going to be the wound, whoever's wounded or vulnerable first. You know what you mean? You've got, and in terms of like creating a cultish, cannibal cultish atmosphere, you've got one girl running out of psych meds and who's already acting peculiarly. And you've got one girl who's like,

extremely religiously fanatic. You know what I mean? So those are two potent ingredients, I think, for a wilderness cult. I mean, we know at least one man survived out of three. So those aren't terrible odds for the men in the woods here, you know. Well, after watching youth soccer for almost 10 years, I'll just tell you, it would be unrealistic if the goalie didn't survive for a while because the goalies are the toughest people on the planet, especially when you get to like that high school level, which they were clearly

good. You have to be like a special breed of fearless to be a soccer goalie at like a certain level. So if they if they go after the goalie early, I'm going to admit it. I hope they've talked to people who are in the soccer worlds. Goleys, sweepers, the back defender basically, those are like two of the toughest ones. And then there's always like that defensive mid is always tough. Like I would be, I'm going to be interested to see if they adopt some of the soccer stuff with this. That's exactly the insight that I wanted from you. Who on the team is likely as to survive given their position? I actually think the goalie should have, would have become the leader because that's the

one who's always the biggest badass on the team. And usually a little, like a tiny bit off too, because they're just like so fearless. What do you make of, so Jackie Ella Pranelle's character, who as you say, you don't know if she's still alive, she could be the one sending of postcards. What do you make of that scene in the pilot where the coach, basically says she's team captain, not because she's the best player, or even that she works the hardest of it because she's got the most influence. Basically, like, she's the most popular. And so he says, you know, they need someone to follow. They need someone with influence.

Is that is that the kind of choice that was absurd? Okay. I can't speak for the, how mid-90s soccer would go, but usually the captain is the best player. That's what I would guess. And usually being the best player brings some sort of confidence, too, that would make sense for a captain. Teams usually follow the superior player in the team or the one who has the highest upside. And that's, I mean, that's why I think the TISA character, who as you mentioned, broke a girl's leg because she wasn't good enough to play in the championships, I guess, is the one that I got my eye on. Jasmine Savoy Brown, who plays the younger version of her was so good in the leftover season two. She's like, you know, one of the girls who disappears in season two. And I think she's one of the most talented among the young women.

I was interested with the senator, with the, she's senator or governor on camera? She's like running for. Running for senator. Yeah. When they were going to play cannibalism stuff as like attack ads. Yeah, exactly. It's like, whoa, this is getting harsh. Catable.

Don't you feel like that would happen in today's political landscape? Yeah. 100%. Yeah, it's a good. Well, anyway, yellow jacket. So I would recommend watching the first four. I think you would as well. Yeah.

I have no idea how it's going to play out. And I think we both have the same instinct that this could have been an incredible one-season show. But we know that people don't do that anymore. They don't. They want too much. But yeah, I mean, if you love Christina Ricci, if you love Juliet-Lewis, if you love Melanie Linsky, these are all great venues for those actresses. And actresses, you know, their actresses in their 40s,

and actresses in their 40s, don't often get to do something this kind of cool and juicy, especially so many in one cast. I mean, I know that's sort of, as you mentioned, the Reese Witherspoon ethos of what she's doing with her production company, but it still feels rare enough that it's, and none of it, none of what Reese has done, as you said, is as unhinged as what this is. And they have one, they have one card to play with this show, which is, we might have more adult versions of some of these characters on the plane. We don't know how many people actually died on the island.

It might have only been like six. It's true. It might have been 10. So we might have two, three, four more people that we haven't gone. And maybe that's season two. It's hard to say how many people are left. They've never explicitly said that in the four episodes, which gives them a little leeway for future seasons, I guess.

It's true. I'm most interested in the redhead van, who got the one who got like half torched on the plane, like left behind in the plane, but emerged anyway. Right. That actress is on Santa Claritie. a diet was really good on that show. And I just like her. She's so angry and so ginger. And I'm excited to see what she does next. Well, isn't that? That's the goalie, isn't it? I think so. I think to your point. Yeah. I'd like to see her survive. I'm betting on the goalie.

Okay. Well, Yellowjacket. Showtime hasn't had a really, really good one in a while. It's been a couple years, right? I mean, but that's why I'm worried, I'm worried that a lot of people don't have Showtime anymore. Do you know what you mean? Like, the, the barrier of getting someone to watch a Showtime show versus an HBO show or, as you say, a Netflix show, is much higher, you know, because I've been talking about the show to a couple people and they're like, I don't, I don't showtime. What else would I be watching on Showtime? Showtime should also, I mean, should run like those ads for, hey, get Showtime for three months for a dollar or whatever. Yeah, I think Homeland was the last time showtime.

I've had Showtime the whole time. But Homeland, when Homeland was peaking, that felt like the last time everyone was. had showtime. Dexter was still on, all that stuff. Dexter, you're riding the weeds, you know,

train, et cetera. Yeah, you're a billions guy. So, of course, you have showtime. But, like,

are you a Ray Donovan guy? Like, what else is, what else is keeping you at showtime? Right. So you could have billions.

You could just get showtime for the three months with billions. I mean, really, they should have packaged yellow jacket with billions.

Yeah. But billions launched how many years ago? Like five, six? It's been a while. It's been a while. Yeah.

Well, They have that. I think the Uber show is going to be a big deal for them. They had a couple good shows. Like Black Monday is actually a pretty good show on Showtime. And then there was, you mentioned Kirsten Dunst earlier. Now I can't remember what it was called, but there was like a great Kirsten Dunn show on Showtime that got canceled just because, like, people weren't watching because, again, I just don't think that people have Showtime. And Showtime is also caught in that weird trap where it doesn't have a good streaming analog because it's caught up in that whole CBS All Access, Paramount Plus, question mark.

of what's going on with all those streaming platforms, but that's who owns showtime. Just figure that shit out. You have like seven different platforms. It's too many. Most popular show in the Simmons House right now. Sex Lives of College Girls. Really?

Yeah. Tell me all about it. That show's actually gotten better. Yeah. No, I want you to catch up, but we could do a thing about it. That show's good. But I've decided that I like any show that's set in college.

I also like the chair. If you're in college, I'm there. Campus, great stuff. Usually it's going to be at least watchable. Good coats, winter coats. That shows funny, though. It's basically sex in the city premise for college roommates. Okay.

But very 2021-ish. And they're at like a posh, posh, posh Northeastern College, it seems like. And it's funny. Each show kind of has a little bit of a hook, but it's good. I got to say, I think it's a bit. above average. Good coats, good winter coats, good college campus coats on that show. Great campus clothes.

Okay. You got me. You have me. Great stuff. Really good episode where they have the parents come back for parents' weekend and all hell breaks loose. You have like some class differences with the four roommates. You have the one rich one. You have the one who's working at like the coffee place.

They just, one's playing for a soccer team. It's good stuff. But there hasn't been terrible soccer on the show yet. They had some bad soccer. Yeah. This is another one. You can't get away from it. It's another breakaway that would have to feel.

They just can't resist. But yeah, that one's good. Before we go, is succession spoiler. Is Kendall alive? I know you and Sean are going to be talking about that on Wednesday. Yeah. So, like, I was convinced Ken was dead and now I'm wavering. It might just be the contrary in me because now everyone seems to agree that he's dead.

So now I'm sort of leaning towards, but what if he isn't? But my question to you is how does he, given that, you read the German, Strong New Yorker profile. I did. Rivening, riveting profile. I mean. I mean.

One of the best ones in a while. I've maybe that I've ever read. Because I mean like it's that that journalist had everything going for him. He's known Jeremy Strong for a long time. He got to go, you know, got to travel with him. Jeremy Strong hooked him up with all the contacts. Like everything was laid out for him to get a great story and he did a great job with it. And he got a couple really biting quotes from people Jeremy Strong worked with, which is so unusual.

in 2021. That never happens. But that's what I'm saying about. A lot of people are like, these aren't things you say about someone you have to go to work with on season four. So that's, I think, what's got a lot of people wondering. So I'm wondering if there's a way that Kendall does survive the pool that we find him in, but not the season somehow. Does he leave the season alive somehow? Does he leave the season dead in another way somehow? I don't know.

I have a lot of questions. But I just don't see a future where Jeremy Strong is on this show. given that Kendall's arc seems a little worn out. Because, like, what can he do in the finale? Like, if he does some sort of big surprise move in the finale, that's just the end of season two again. Do you know what I mean? A big betrayal, a big confession, a big something.

He has one move left, and I don't know if they're going to play it, but they hinted at it. The confession? Confessing to the waiter and blaming his dad for covering it up would be the one way to really, that's the last way he could beat his dad, where he falls on the sword, admits that he did it.

and gets his dad in trouble for it. Right. And proves to his dad that he is better than... His whole thing is like, I'm better than you and Logan sort of tries to obliterate that notion at that incredible dinner scene. That, by the way, both Brian Cox and Jeremy Strong have said in interviews, Jeremy Strong broke into tears

while filming that scene because it was so intense. There was three scenes that were really, really, really, really high end. That scene, I thought Shiv and her mom having a cigarette was unbelievable. Yeah. And the Roman dick pick stuff, that was one of the funniest scenes I've seen in an HBO show ever.

I was like, I was absolutely dying. Like his body language during it and, I need five minutes. And Logan storms off. What the hell is wrong with you? Just that five minutes was just out of control incredible. And then scumbag shift comes in and it's like, oh, I can leverage this.

Finally, I have a win. can get here. I wanted to ask you about this. So you're, you're, you know, I talked to you about succession before the season started and you're like, Shiv, what is she good for? Absolutely nothing. What's sort of your stance, right? Yeah. So my question is she sees us off.

She sees this up. Well, okay. For a lot of the season, I would say you're vindicated, but what do you, like, she makes a move in this episode. She does. She does. It's a power move. So is that not, is that not what you want? She finally stepped up.

She finally stepped up. That's what you want from her is to be like a ruthless killer, like the rest of her family. I hate how me. She used to Tom. Tom's not my favorite character. I've dumped Connor. Tough Connor season. Yeah, it's true. They never kind of figured him out this year. And he's just been kind of all over the map. And he's become like the, they're shoehorning him into stuff versus like him actually having these organic. Every time he's in there, it's awesome. This year, I don't feel that way. I think they're trying to use him too much when I'm just like, you know, you need five Allen Ruck appearances a season, maybe four at best. I thought. the Kendall party stuff with his coat and his arm. That was hilarious.

Alan Rock really injured his arm, so they worked into the show. Is that true? Yeah, yeah. He tore his rotator cuff. So, like, all that stuff is, I thought was pretty gold. But I agree with you overall with Connor. But, yeah, the confession, I mean, maybe I can see that happening. And maybe then Ken goes to jail and he has to be the one to burp the toilet wine and all that sort of stuff.

Like, maybe that's where it all goes. And then Jeremy Strong isn't on the show because, Kettle's in jail. You get rid of him for a year, year and a half, and then he gets out of jail. He comes back to the finale or something. Yeah.

Very possible. Maybe, but yeah. I look forward to your deep dive pod with Sean. Those have been great. That's on Wednesdays. And that's it for the prestige TV pod. Produced by Steve Alman. You can hear him on the ringerverse pod every once in a while too.

Big ringerverse stretch coming up. It's like NBA playoffs for nerd culture. It's a lot going on. Van's more excited for the Spider-Man movie. than I've ever heard him about anything, including sports. Really? Yeah. Oh, I hope it lives up to everything Ben wants it to be.

All right. Good to see you, Joanna. You too.