The Prestige TV Podcast - 'Yellowjackets’ Season 2, Episode 3 Recap

Episode Date: April 7, 2023

Mallory and Joanna break down ‘Yellowjackets’ Season 2, Episode 3, “Digestif.” They talk about how each character reacted to last episode’s cannibalistic ending and what it means going forward. They also break down Ben’s flashbacks and the regret he is experiencing. Plus, they talk about Shauna’s terrifying monologue and what it reveals about her time in the wilderness. Hosts: Joanna Robinson and Mallory Rubin Associate Producer: Carlos Chiriboga Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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I'm Joanna Robinson. I minored in relaxing and joining me today with a brand new supply of strawberry loop. It's Mallory Rubin. I know. I could have gone strawberry. I almost did. Here today talk about season two episode three of yellow jackets titled Dejustif, which of course is the beverage you have after you've had a delicious

crispy meal involving a friend and teammate of yours. Written by Sarah Thompson and a mensie Rosa directed by Jeff Bird. This is a really gross and desecis. I don't know, yellow jackets. It's disgusting and weird and we're here to talk about it. If we dive into the episode, just quick, quick, quick reminders that we're covering Succession and Barry also in this feed and a bunch of other stuff as it comes up. Who knows what's to come?

that's the joy and unpredictability of the Prestige TV podcast feed. Mallory and I are covering the Mandalorian in a more sort of reliable, regular way over on the Ringerverse. Follow us on social, subscribe to the podcast, prestige, ringer, et cetera. You know how to find us.

Find us on social. Follow the podcast. We say it every week. We mean it. Overall thoughts, we're not going to like do broad overall thoughts in the episode this week, but I just wanted to check in

on the unreliable narrator slash hallucinator counter, right? Because this week you get some new players, right? Both ties, that's old hat, right? Tie is always hallucinating. Lottie, seeing some blood in the honeycomb, kind of normal. Nat, was that most real?

We can discuss when we get to it, but Coach Ben has entered Hallucination Island. Mallory, how do you feel about it? Aided in Coach Ben's case by a new stylistic treatment as well. this kind of videotape intro sequence-esque visual cue and a static that blends the 96 Wilderness Cabin Ben with this memory slash alternate what could have been glimpse of the life that he didn't end up living. Sad. It is. I spent a very long time last week on Twin Peaks, and I promise I'm going to keep it snappy this week.

But we did get an interesting email from our listener, Allie, just doing a better job than I did of delineating the difference between surreality and Twin Peaks and how it works in Yellow Jackets. And it's tied into this unreliable narrator thing because in Twin Peaks, you're just existing in a world of weird and weird and supernatural and dreams and all the stuff. And you don't know when you're going to go into a dream space or not. But it is just the premise of the world. the various moments of serality that we get here, visions, daydreams, hallucinations, all that sort of stuff, are pegged to the individual unreliable narrator or character who is really going through it, right, in any given episode. And that's what keeps us on our toes with yellow jackets in terms of trying to determine what is real, what is not, what is plausibly explained by high iron levels in the earth versus. is what is just a creepy cabin guy ghost dude or an eyeless dapper gentleman in the woods. Mal, how are you hanging with this sort of like unreliable narrator aspect of season two?

I had a great time this week. I have to say. And some of it like we talked about last week was maybe about acclimating to this season's approach, which seems more firmly rooted in the ever-present supernatural aspect. like this is going to be less of an occasional, what's happening here and more of this persistent tapestry of the world across the timelines. And I think that we'll continue to ask

what we do without the moorings. Even with Ben in this episode, and we'll talk about him more in a few minutes, like you reassess the entire episode when you get that news anchor clip at the end and realize this was not actually his life, this last bit at least. I think we probably both agree just that last bit is not the thing that happened.

Well, then had you recontextualized what you saw before and you realize that this is about longing and yearning. And no digest for Ben, no port or cognac or sherry for Ben. He didn't have a meal. Our guys tell me is rumbling. So the context is different for everybody. But the way that the characters are also thinking about and processing how present this is in their lives is interesting across the episode. it's like there's an evolution just from one to two to three with present-day Ty,

the mirror goes from being something that we see to something that Ty sees and interacts with. So it feels like there's a steady bit of progress week after week, and that how that is incorporated into the text of the show is something that's very top of mind for the creators. Will that ultimate answers come at the very end or never? Possibly. But I think it will feel like it's more firmly rooted in the story every single minute that we spend in the world. Something that the narrators have yet to do, and this is when I think the whole thing might become a little challenging for me, is there hasn't been a rugpole, JK, what you saw didn't happen many episodes later. Usually the revelation happens within the episode, be it like Ties' hallucination of Sammy last week or the Ben fantasy that we get in this episode.

Like, if we went all season with Ben, like having these flashbacks with Paul, and at the very end, we realized. that like some of his fantasy or, I mean, Ben's not lasting until the end of the season, we think, but you know, you know what I mean? I wasn't sure Ben was going to make it out of this episode, honestly. But it happens with in the hour, you know what I mean? So you can just reassess in real time. And I think that's kind of key.

And I just want to shout at one last Twin Peaks thing. I was reminded of this Twin Peaks quote about, I was talking about this evil entity Bob from Twin Peaks, and I was reminded of this great Twin Peaks quote, which is maybe that's all Bob is the evil that men do. And so this idea of these manifestations of various haunting figures, all men, by the way, in this show is pretty interesting to me. And another very like Lord of the Flies idea. Of course.

Emails at Crutches Department, not at time this week, a couple of pals of mine who are scholars on Yellow Jackets, texted me to let me know that in season one, Misty listed Muscular Caves as one of the of her turn-ons. And so they wondered if Walter had hiked up his socks intentionally in last week's episode to draw attention to his muscular calves. How do you feel about a calf watch? I think that if Walter did that on purpose, I have some very large concerns about Walter and how he's spying on Misty and what he knows about Misty. I would be quite alarmed by that. If the show did that to make Walter more appealing to Misty, then I love it. I love that you would be alarmed. Because aren't they just like, isn't it kind of a turn-on to the two of them in this episode?

Like how much they're digging into each other's lives and crossing boundaries? That would mean that he was spying on her date with the dude in season one. She might have it on her dating profile or something. You know what I mean? Sure. In that case, yeah. If she's just out there on hinge, like, I love muscular calves, then great. He's paying attention. We love an attentive partner.

Wonderful. If he's like sitting two tables away, if we go back to season one and we get the Walter edit and we see him two tabletops away at all times spying on Misty. But isn't that what Misty would do is my question, right? Yeah, and I would not want to date Misty either. Exactly. Last degree talked about the documentary, the docu series The Deep End, which is on Hulu is four episodes, four one hour episodes about a real life figure called Teal Swan, who is a cult leader or a wellness advisor, depending on who you ask, and who Lottie is partially based

on adult Lottie. And I watched it and had a terrifying time with it. Fun, fine, terrifying time at the Colts docuseries. I recommend it. It's like a pretty easy watch. There's a gripping narrative to it. Of course, Teal Swan and all of her followers sort of say that it is deceptively edited. And I'm sure it's, you know, editorialized.

But it's very interesting. And like a lot of her Megalomania is something that I want to look for in Lottie. Anything on Cult Watch? Mal? That's some Arthur Harrow

Glass and issues. And thus, Waco, given the real life inspirations for Harrow, vibes, just kind of tracking the following at the campsite this week. You know, the number of shots we get of tending a garden box, growing vegetables.

When Lottie is trying to convince that to sign up for a session, one of the things that we can glimpse is the choreboard. And so much of what we can read on there is about tending the earth or cleaning massage stones, very much about being in touch with the ground and the environment and the natural elements surround you and or yourself and other people in a way that, like, put us very much on the, oh, you're supposed to think this is like comforting and cool and let me tuck into this bowl of soup and thus I am on my back foot immediately spot in Moonnight. So we also, we got an email from Sarah.

You were asking last week about this idea of like why Travis reached out to Lottie when he did. What caused that? And so Sarah wrote in to remind us that Jessica, the important. the investigator, the really creepy fixer, who Maloney know from Battlestar Galactica, on behalf of Ty was going around poking into people's business

asking questions. But I still think the question stands because it's what caused Jessica to do that? Ty hired her. What caused Ty to do that? She's trying to protect herself because she's running for office. What we know from that fraud exchange

with Sean Encoe that they had all agreed to not live life. in the public eye. So is it purely Tye's ambition that just led her to do a thing they had agreed not to? Or is there another force that is propelling that kind of action? I think this larger question across the characters and the timelines of this call or this pull, and particularly with a character like Tai, who we quite literally see pulled into certain spots out in the wilderness back in the 96 timeline, like what is happening that's animating that supernatural force that is guiding them and their decisions? Right. And I think I think that,

that the fact that it happens at the exact same time that Jeff decides to do this blackmailing scheme, which is also like kicking up dust where it had been settled, I think you could make an argument that like those two things happening at the same time. I mean, it's a creative and inciting way to start your story. You know, so maybe it's just a story choice. But since so much, so many odd things are happening in this world, I think it's always good to ask those questions. But I think I think maybe Travis's agitation in that moment was a result. of Jessica's like direct interference. Snoring, gasping during sleep, feeling fatigued,

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We got this request from folks. They just want some clarity on what happened. What happened this very action-packed episode? So let's do. In 1996, poor coach Ben trying to avoid thinking about how he's definitely next on the menu is living in fantasy, starring his very nice boyfriend, Paul. Natalie takes what's left of Jackie to the plane and sees a very symbolically significant white moose while she's there. Missy and Crystal. bond over doubled eggs and twin absorption, fun stuff. Ty and Val go out walking after midnight, and Lottie and the whole gang throws Shauna,

the baby shower from hell that ends with a bunch of dead birds falling from the sky. What to get the traumatized teen mom who has everything, right? In present day, Lottie and Nat continue to circle each other at Camp Dead Bees, the Siddiques, Jeff and Shaugh and Shanna descend deeper and deeper into trouble. Jeff for improper gym etiquette and Shana because she gave a carjacker, a speech about skinning human beings. Normal stuff. Shawna.

Shawna and Jeff's road trip to Colonial Williamsburg is cut short, but if I'm reading the mirror charades correctly, Ty seems like she's on a road trip to find van. And let's wrap up the road trip bit with America's sweethearts, Walter and Misty, who break Randy, get a fan to base clue, and maybe headed upstate to join Nat and Lonnie at the aforementioned decapicated chicken, retreat. That's what happened on yellow jackets this week. All right. Another dozy.

Again, we're going to go character by character, but I just wanted to start with the opening shot, which is we open on what I am terming Jackie's dripping finger bones. Mal, how'd you feel about this immediate follow-up to the feast that ended last week's episode? Absolutely harrowing, opening image that I found, like, actually made me feel sick to my stomach in a way that a few things on the show have to this point. It was just so revolting by design. I loved the different responses of the characters to confronting, you know, what they had done, like one of the most gnarly morning afters that you could possibly imagine, but that opening image, very rich and symbolic. We got this great email from Justine about this idea of burnt offerings in the Bible and the Hebrew

Bible specifically that I thought was super interesting. If we're thinking of this as sort of like offering. Lottie is constantly sort of talking about this idea of like an offering up to some sort of deity or force. But Justine wrote in, the burnt offering was meant to be the best of the flock, the most beautiful, perfect, and unblemished, which certainly would apply to Jackie, at least in an aesthetic slash high school sense. It seems that although she was mostly useless in the wilderness, in the end, she was the perfect sacrifice. I'm not a biblical scholar in the slightest, but the connection here seems obvious. I found some other interesting ideas that also seem relevant from

Leviticus, the burnt offering itself shall remain on the hearth on the altar all night into the morning, and the fire on the altar is to be kept burning on it. Pretty much exactly what happens with poor Jackie because the ghostly snow dump. Other than

thinking that ghostly snow dump is a great new band name, Mallory, any thoughts on burn offerings? Oh, boy. I love it. What instrument will you play? I'll be the drummer if the slot is open. A fantastic, fantastic observation. I mean, this episode ends with the discussion of a blessing. We get the reverent kneeling and the offerings. I think what this calls to mind for me, though, is a couple moments, including in this episode, Lottie voices, the idea to Shana to try to calm her, soothe her, swayed her guilt that Jackie would have wanted this. It's something that we heard Shauna say last week as they're about to chow down. And what happened with Jackie, which Coach Ben should remember. because he's throwing shade was an accident.

And that is different from a willful, deliberate offering up in a sacrifice. And it feels like this is priming us for that being what's next. Like how far away are we from a pit girl? Yeah. But yes, this is a portal down the bloody snow. Yeah. Once you've thrown one of your friends on the fire, it's just a slippery slope down to, like, ritual sacrifice. Exactly.

And I think I think we like to, well, we don't like to, but we have thought about that pit girl sequence that we see as like is this sort of like man is the most dangerous animal sort of Hunger Games-esque game to pick the next girl who's going to go up on the menu. And also, you know, Shauna's speech, which we'll dig into, speaks to like hunting almost, right? When you're about to kill someone, not you accidentally. kill them or whatever, but like when you... An active pursuit.

Actively killing someone. All right. Also on the, on the Greek mythology front, we talked about the, the, I can never, I can never pronounce this correctly. How would you say it? Maynades, I think is what it is. It just sounds like mayonnaise to me and I don't like saying it anyway. The followers of Dionysus are Bacchus.

And Andrew wrote in to say, they practice paragmars. most, tearing a sacrifice apart with their bare hands, and amaphagia, which is this consumption of raw flesh, as part of their devotion to Dionysus. While the magic mushrooms are what kick off the doom coming chaos, it's hard not to think of his cult, Dionys' cult, when the girls were stumbling around in the crown of leaves, their face is stained by berry wine. Notably, Dionys' symbol is a scepter twined with ivy and tipped with a pine cone, the very object the girl's stuff in Travis's mouth when they're about to slit his throat.

Yeah, great mythology. Love this shit, Mallory. That Panko moment was terrifying. Also seemed incredibly painful and like you would have a lot of cuts in your mouth after. I think we'll look back on that moment with Travis and think it was one of the great survival tricks that any of the characters are able to pull.

If that happened now, after they had tasted man flesh, He's not making it out of doom coming alive. No way. Jackie never got to watch Lord of the Rings. And that's really sad. Devastating. Though I'm sure that Shauna chronicled it in her journal. So that's comforting as if she did.

Yeah. All right. Let's go to Coach Ben. It's 1996. Ben Mary may not exist in present day. We're thinking no, but who knows? He might surprise us. I'm just going to ask you right now to make a prediction.

What episode do they eat, Coach Ben? It's it next week. I just don't think he's making it out of the season alive. We'll talk about wine in a second. I would be shocked. Meets very nearly back on the menu boys is what it seems. They've had a taste for it. He's having a very bad time in a post-snacky situation.

Snacky, I don't want to take credit for this. This is the subreddit, Yellow Jacket's subreddit, have dubbed Jackie Snacky, which is fabulous work. Exquisite. Exquisite. Love that subreddit. He imagines Jen, who's like one of the background yellow jackets girls from last season who got promoted to having a name and speaking this season where she's foaming at the mouth and talking about still being hungry and sort of lunging in him. So I guess that's his, that's sort of like his first hallucination.

And he wants to say, Jen and her foam you mouth? This was incredibly disturbing and alarming. I did note that this little hallucination happened after his stomach gurgles, very audibly. and Jen asks him if he's hungry, and of course there is this collective, unspoken thing that he is the one who didn't partake. Now we have others who don't recall partaking, which we'll get to,

but Ben opted out, right? And that's unique in this group. And he has now found himself as a result, completely isolated, off in the little side room, and in essence, comatose. Now, has he been... has he found himself in a state because he has been driven there, like actually cannot move or function in part by the hunger,

how much of it is the horror. That feels like the maybe 99% of what is unfolding here, but it's this very potent combination. And it's heightening this now, not only sense of like, this is a very disturbing thing that has unfolded and I am appalled. We already heard him where we hear elsewhere that before the crash. He thought of them as like monstrous.

There's a literalization of that here, obviously in a very harrowing way. But any trust and a society like this has to be built on trust is just shattered. He doesn't know how to exist. He can't exist among them. And there's, I mean, Ben has been such an interesting figure to watch because, you know, he is the quote unquote grown up. He is the only adult male.

You know, Travis is our closest second here and then hobby. But like adult male figure of authority. And he is like literally. thoroughly eroding first by losing part of his leg and now just like wasting away to practically nothing to quote Ursula from The Little Mermaid. You know, he's like, and so this idea of male patriarchal power, we've seen it happen a couple times in season one where they're like, you're not you're not the boss of us anymore, right? Like you have no power.

You know, like that sort of stuff. And the literalization of that, as you say. So like, okay. So the first flashback we get. involves Paul trying to perfect some chowder like you do and inviting it's not a cook-off, it's a chowder fest. Wonderful. Wonderful introduction.

Inviting Ben to live with him, right? I'm like, his apartment looks lovely. I'm like, I will move in immediately. Apartment looks great. Beautiful, delicious chowder. Absolutely, yes. Absolutely. You would never put fucking cumin in a chowder.

How dare you, Ben? Soul. Cuman in a clamped chowder. And Ben is resistant, right? Because he is closeted. You know, it's 1996. Some cultural context for that in terms of, like, you know, being queer in America is that the defense of marriage act, Doma was passed in September of 96. And, you know, this allows individual states to refuse to recognize same-sex marriage performed in other jurisdictions.

Blah. And also the Senate. wrote it against prohibiting employment discrimination based on sexual orientation. And also the militaries don't ask, don't tell policy, when to affect 94, lasted until 2011, shapeful. So this is the environment in which Ben is facing this choice. To move in with Paul is to let everyone know this other part of himself. And at that time, it is a part of himself that he's ashamed of.

And in a show where we are constantly talking about two sides, being able to show your real self. Usually when we talk about it, we're talking about this like darker side of a person and can you share that with your partner. Obviously, I'm not equating being out and gay with that in the scenario. But it is that idea of like reconciling a private or public part of yourself or how much can you give someone all of you, everything. And this is sort of what Paula ludes to when he's like, I deserve that. Right. Absolutely. And if we if we think back to season one and what, we learn about Ben and when, like even in this extreme, dire situation, nobody knows if they're going to be found, if they're going to make it back. It's very deep into the season where Ben

shares this part of his life. And then only with Nat. I mean, he ends up screaming, I'm gay at Misty in a very fraught, tense, hallucinogenic aided stretch near the end of the season, but not because he is ready or eager to share that. It's only Nat who he opens up to in that way in season one. And in the process of that we can feel at the time and we don't know the full context then how tortured he was and felt back in New Jersey, back in regular life and regular society. So it was amazing, I thought, to see this relationship and to see the choice that he had to make and what both Ben and Paul are wrestling with because, like, I thought that was one of the

biggest wallups in the episode when Ben explains, when Ben, you know, goes from kind of making the excuse of like, well, I got to see this, this season through with the team, even though I repeatedly tell you that I hate them and can't wait to be rid of them, to saying clearly, if I do this, it changes everything about my life. And, like, you have to understand that. and it's not fair for you to like hurry me or make that decision for me. And Paul responds with just as much candor and says, I do get to decide that I need someone who's ready to live this life with me, which is so heart-wrenching,

but also like you're saying that larger theme across the characters and the timelines of, who am I? Who do I want to be? But also are you the other person in my life ready for who, I am and for who I want to be. And are you ready to be that person and share that life with me? And for that regret to be hanging over Ben in this way is just like very, very, very, very poignant.

And like the contrast between the blue filter and the like hazy in and out of the shots of him sort of like wasting away in bed versus the glowing warm light. And you could just like feel the warmth and the aroma of the soup and then like beautiful. Natalie Merchant is on the radio. You know, it's just like, so your mileage may vary. A lot of this is up to interpretation, but the way that I view this is that the first scene, flashback that we saw happened. And then the second one is the fantasy of what if I had stayed? What if I had said yes?

And now he's equating the decision to stay in the closet with the most calamitous thing that happened to his life, this plane crash, right? Staying in the closet meant he got on the plane, which meant he crashed in the wilderness. which meant he's almost certainly going to be eaten by these girls. Right. And like never, that means never getting to live his life, like openly. And honestly, the way that, yeah, the way that he would have wanted to. And I have the same read.

I think that the first, the first Ben and Paul conversation and sequence, which we get in two distinct scenes in the episode, but it's ultimately one moment from their history together. I also think happened. And then the second, the, I've got my. my school crew neck sweatshirt on and I'm in team gear is the road not taken, you know, the what could have been. And that quote, like, I keep thinking if I got on that plane, I was committing to the, I kept thinking if I got on that plane, I was committing to the

saddest possible version of me to know that every minute that he is sitting there in that cabin in the wilderness, that is what he is thinking, that this is the saddest possible version of him and that's the rest of his life and all he'll get to be and have again. is devastating. On a tackier note, if Ben got on this plane freshly broken up with Paul with the gajillion condoms

that we know he has because he gave some to Travis, do we think he was trying, he's going to try to like forget his cares and woes in the wild streets of Seattle? Like, was that the plan? I've been wondering about this

since the condom handover and then the conversation with that about the boyfriend. I was like, is the boyfriend meeting him? Was he in Seattle? This is a long time? Yeah.

Yeah. But, you know, it's always just reminded me of the love actually, like, backpack, a chock-a-block full of condoms, you know, like the idea of just going on a road room packing. Yeah, Colin just packing, like, nothing but condoms for the journey. It just kills me every time. If Ben dies. So I'm curious what you think of this theory that I've seen kicking around the Yellow Jacket community, which is the idea that, like, each death symbolizes the destruction of a system of power or society.

So with Laura Lee is the first to go, it's like, you know, Judeo-Christian. Like, that's what we most associate with Laura Lee is, like, the church, that's her main identity, right? So, like, that's gone. And I think in a story about that is about, like, finding faith or a higher power or all this sort of stuff in the wilderness, the idea that, like, our old notion of that, our old rigid notion of that goes up in flames first, right? I mean, other people die on the plane crash, but, like, Laura Lee first. Jackie, that Queen Bee social hierarchy, that your value is based on, you know, the things that Jackie's value is based on back in the real world, that's up in smoke. And if Ben goes next, which he may or not, but if Ben goes next, that feels like male patriarchal power or something like that.

I don't know. What do you think of, like, do you think they're being that kind of intentional with the death order in the show? I wouldn't be surprised. I think that the show is so firmly rooted in the nature of social norms and roles and dynamics that stem from those roles and like interactions and patterns. I think that you noted already

and this is very, those moments in season one where they start to say like, coach, just hang tight. This like isn't a conversation for you. Really stand out at the beginning. But I still think that even though they had cast his oversight to the side, it would still be that. You know, the adult, the nominal person in a position of power and authority,

the person who in theory you would entrust and turn to to lead or make a decision. And again, even with him quite literally there, they had formed on their own ways of circumventing it that he never really challenged. But to have the adult, the coach, the boss, bite it. And then I guess you would bite him if you're cannibals. That's what that feels like to me even more. Because I don't really think of Coach Ben as being like a symbol of the patriarchy. No, not in that way.

I do think it's significant. Of course, in the show, how few men there are in the survival situation and the fact that like we get the patriarchy in the gym pumping iron in the present day. Can't wait to talk about Kevin. Tan again. All right, let's talk about Ty. Ty's storyline is not that involved this week, but, you know, Simone's and Dyer Street, she's drawn the symbol on Simone's palm in one state of being and then tries to rub it off in another state of being. Do you think she definitely drew it? Do you think there's any chance that somebody else drew it? Because we get, you know, the hallucination while Ty is asleep

of Sammy asking, is Mommy going to die? Simone's sitting up and saying, is this what you wanted? maybe while Ty is sleepwalking or in that other self, she draws it. We know that Ty drew it in the basement during the biscuit sacrifice.

But what if somebody else? What if the Lottie followers have been deployed to track and monitor everyone? All right. We will keep our eye out for purple people in the hospital. Is there Fanta

in the vending machine at the hospital? I just have to assume, by the way, that Lottie doesn't let them drink soda because they're all downing, like, natural smoothies all the time. And they're like, oh my God. Chemicals and sugar. Yes.

Let's empty the vending machine. Fuck off, Randy. And then, you know, we get that mirror sequence where, like, honestly, Ty, you're, you're supposed to be very smart. Everyone watching at home could tell that she was mouthing go to her. And we all knew who she meant. But poor mirror tie had to resort to. to finger charades to denote sort of the scars on Vans face to get Ty on board.

Ty seems on board. She's getting her aides car, fresh from a car crash, back into the car. And is calling Jessica on her way out the door. And as I think you've noted this already this season, Mal, like, Ty doesn't know that Misty killed her fixer. So is that going to be a problem? I don't know. Maybe, you know, just goes to voicemail.

a few hundred times in a row and Ty gets a little taste of what it's like to be Misty, with no one answer your calls. Who knows how long it'll take her to realize that Jessica is dead? Who can say? Who can say? Anything you want to say about Ty in the past, including, like, her reaction to having eaten someone's face? Yeah.

So very quickly, the last thing on the present day that I would note is that that initial hallucination stretch did have a different visual palette. Like there was kind of a fuzziness around. the corners. And I think, like, again, if we're tracking, is the show increasing its efforts to signal to us that this is not something we should totally, totally trust? It did seem like that. And with the nature of moving in and out of Ben's flashbacks, there was more of that in this episode than there had been. In terms of... In terms of die in the past, this episode had a lot of, like, I think instant Hall of Fame yellow jackets lines.

But Ty, you ate her face. First ballot Hall of Famer. Unanimous vote. First ballot Hall of Famer. This was astonishing, and I loved it. Do you think... So part of what I wanted to ask about this is, like, do you believe that this is what happened?

That Ty genuinely doesn't remember doing this, that it was her other self, her sleepwalking self. Do you think there's any chance that this is a lie, that she is ashamed and appalled, and some sort of defense mechanism is kicking in, or just genuinely, this is her other self? And because of what we see later, which is that she can have an entire conversation with Van,

Van just didn't know that this was her other self. I think Ty, I think adding that just feels unnecessarily complicated. There's, like, three versions of Ty, like denial fugue state tie and then like regular tie and then shadow tie getting jake in there with our mark and our stephen you're on a real midnight kick i love this for you um my question my pressing question is by vomiting up jacky's face does tie just like negate the whole purpose of the banquet in the first place you keep those nutrients down tie i don't care how they at least some time passed i mean i guess it was the middle of the night so not not much but

hopefully a few hours of absorbing some of the proteins, some of the carbohydrates, you know, I don't know what nutrients exactly are in a human body. And I can't speak to that. But hopefully she still benefited. I mean, we'll hear Nat later say that just crediting Jackie with maybe helping them survive the winter. It seems like they're going to, you know, Mari's another Hall of Fame ballad like no one wants breakfast. Nobody's hungry. Get any more in the pit, Mari.

Other than Misty and Crystal, who are eagerly. plotting out a snack menu for the baby shower and want to keep the nauseous coming. Doesn't seem like any of them are feeling like they need to eat anytime soon or counting on another meal. Also, of course, Van and Ty go on another like midnight walk. And I guess we need to shout out the very significant exchange rate where Shadow Ty, who I think if you ask Shadow Ty, she would not even call herself Ty, says he shows me the one with no eyes only when she lets me, who is she, Van, Taisa, Shadow Ty says, then who are you? And of course, we don't get a response. But we do know that this thing inside of Ty has led her yet again to another one of the carved symbols in the tree.

Like, what are we looking for on these midnight walks? What are we searching for? Yeah. So if you don't forgive me, I genuinely can't believe I'm about to mention Moodynight for the third time in this podcast. But this did make me think of the Mark Stephen Dynamic again where. Sleepwalking tie is aware of both ties in a way that the other tie is not. And that one of the one of the one of ties selves has a clearer, fuller picture than the other. And it's, I think it's especially fascinating because when we get to, when we get Ty,

van pulls tie back in front of the symbol out of the sleepwalking state and ask, you know, who is the one with no eyes? We get a quick little flash. Maybe Prime Ty is seeing that. Maybe that's just there for us. But back to that mirror Prime Tyne. In the grandma's room when we first saw this, Ty's childhood long ago,

like we know that that is something that Taiza saw and experienced as a child. And so it made me think, like, is that the inciting trauma that led to this fracture? Like that that tie has repressed that specific awareness and this other self has sprung up. And again, I am not a psychologist or a doctor and not claim to be. But it was interesting to see which part of Thai knew what and when and how and how that was then manifesting. There was a Paleyfest event with the cast and creators of Yellow Jackets.

And Paley Fest, by the way, if you're interested in like how TV gets made or all those sort of stuff, Paley Fest is like always a really good resource. You can go on their YouTube. They didn't pay me as this. We can go on their YouTube and watch like a bunch of panels. It's great stuff. But Bart Nickerson said that we would rue the day if he told us everything there is to know about the man of no eyes full story. And Ashley Lyle said it was partially based on stories from hospice nurses who said they felt a quote unquote dark presence when their patients died.

And Lyle went on to say quote. And so I think for Taisa, who's very much not in touch with her. spiritual self and very much not in touch with her ability to believe or her faith, there's a sort of symbolic character of, you know, you could look at him as death incarnate, Wyle says, of the man of no eyes. So this, you know, this idea of, like, spirituality and, and, um, that conversation that Travis and Nat were having about, like, ego and, like, offering yourself up to something larger and all that sort of stuff.

And, like, how do you figure out what that looks like in the wilderness setting like this is Lottie because she's the tall. list of the girls, a natural leader. No, I'm just kidding. I just do think that people defer to tall people. But, like, I love this idea that, like, Ty is so stubbornly pragmatic, so stubbornly a realist, that it causes a schism. Like, so stubbornly refuses to accept the spiritual or supernatural things that are happening that she literally has to break off into a different person, different side of herself. All right. That brings us to Nat and Lonnie,

who are, you know, just hanging out on the ranch in present day. Nat's just poking around. Just there's two, there's three, no, there's four, okay, there's four things I would watch no matter what on this show. One is literally anything that Juliette Lewis does ever, at any time, ever. just her walking around is interesting to me. Yeah, riveting. Misty and Walter's bad romance. I'm so all in to that.

And then a Melanie Linsky monologue. Like those are like, I'm in. That's my full buy-in for all of this. What about Jeff jamming to his playlist? No? We're going to get to Jeff's playlist in a second. But anyway, so Nat's booking around. She's interested in Lottie's headquarters, has a really chill,

reaction to Lisa beheading a chicken in front of her. Yeah. Like genuinely really chill. Completely unfazed. It's amazing. Lottie chose not the APRI. They have this really cool conversation about Queen B's murdering other potential queens and their sleep.

That's great. Some pointed remarks about that. Some weird bee footage that goes along with that. But mostly I want to talk about the way in which Juliette Lewis chose to drape this purple cardigan over her existing clothes as she sits in on group. What do you think about Juliette Lewis and Nat here? Phenomenal. Cardigan is amazing.

Everything is amazing. I am concerned that she's ingesting the smoothies. You know, this is the Yellow Jackets version of drinking the Kool-Aid with the cult. I'm troubled and I'm worried and I'm on high alert. It's not just macaroot in there. Yeah. Oh, right. Are we going for focus or libido? Let's circle back. But to the cardigan point, like I kept wondering throughout the episode, why is Nat still there? Because we knew last week,

we saw Nat ask to leave and Lottie does this like very thinly veiled. Ah, you know, oh, the time of the time couldn't possibly manage it. Let me check the train schedule for your departure tomorrow that will go as planned. Did, are we supposed to assume that Nat has not asked to leave again? And I don't think, at least right now, we have any reason. and to believe that she is like, hey, maybe I'm interested in this. I think that she's deciding to do a little bit of sleuthing and biding her time to see what she can learn. Now, maybe some of that temptation or pull

will unfold naturally while she is there. But the cardigan feels like emblematic of that. She's still wearing her outfit. She's not going to take off her leather pants, like the signature nat uniform, the heels. But I will cloak myself in. your garb if it helps if it allows me to make

inroads and learn and get close enough to your cabin to see the antlers proudly displayed above your porch antler queen with your queen B speech we'll have to yeah I think this like very

very slight gesture towards I'm here I'm curious I'm interested to learn but I mean as for why she's still there. Something she says before she says she wants to leave is I'm going to put a stop to your fucking bullshit. I don't know how yet, but I'm going to stop it. So like this idea. Yeah, she's on the case. Yeah, she's on the case. Detective Nat, I'm thrilled. What did you think of the Joe in the beekeeping area? The stones, the stone spiral. I was just like, we're back in Westrose. This is like the White Walker spiral that the honeycombs are on top of. Why? Obviously, in the stone spiral. I was just like, we're back in Westrose. I was just like, like, we're back in the white walker spiral. Why? Obviously. I was just like, this show in particular, we're trained to look for like visual cues and symbols. Did you, do you make anything of that? The symbol itself is drawn on the B-B-B-B-B-B-B-B-B-B-Craits. I don't have my B-Vernacular locked down, as you can tell. They're probably not called B-B-B-Crates.

But then the stones, like the pattern. Was that there already? And it's part of why Lottie chose this spot. Is there some connection to this force? I think you have to know that Lottie has so many books on mystical symbols. Like a whole library. There's like a whole wing of her antler cabin that's just mystical simple books. So what's in the cabin? What is what is that going to find in the cabin? Is it hobby? Did Hobby go through a time portal and wind up in the future in the is hobby the one making all the smoothies? What's hobby up to? Oh my God, how grim. You've survived only to be a chained up smoothie guy. Maybe he loves it. No. Maybe it's That's true.

Part of his communication and his love language. He's like that job of life is for me. Then Lottie has this massive, creepy hallucination at the end here, right? This is the end of the episode, but we're going to do it in the middle of our conversation here because I want to end, obviously, on America's sweet arts. Naturally. Behind the scenes, Mal and I are watching Meet 2-Meep, but we are watching on the screeners that Showtime very kindly sends over. Showtime does not send closed captionings on their screeners.

which is fine. Champagne problems. Except for when a character speaks French. And I got to do my best to try to figure out what the French is. And I think I came up with like, which means he or it wants blood. And Mallory reminded me that this is a phrase that we heard a version of in season one. Carlos will he play that clip?

French? When does Lottie speak French? Jackie, wasn't she in your process? Yeah, but she sucks them. French. What's she saying? I don't know.

I suck a French too. Well, Damacek, he's trying not to. He's... He... It... No, it wants. Something... Blood?

I think she's saying blood. Not poor. I want to be hearing right now. They're cool here. Shit, more blood stuff. I don't know. Shit more blood stuff. I don't know.

It's just the best. I do miss Jackie sometimes. And then in the finale, too, the French that precedes the and let the darkness set us free English line. And I do not speak French, nor have I ever learned French. But lots of discussion on the internet after the finale about the spill the blood. French utterance in the finale. It wants blood or he wants blood is really interesting. Like that distinction, what is it?

Is it it wants blood, which is like the larger spiritual force of the wilderness? or is it he wants blood, the cabin guy. Right. The one calling to Jackie. Is it the eyeless man? Shianna's. Or the is the penis man and the, oh, oh my goodness. Well, that's an upsetting one.

Does the baby want blood? You know what I mean? Boy. A lot of blood in the honeycomb. And you don't want that. I'm not a beekeeper myself, but I think you don't want blood in the honeycomb. By the way, that blood looked like jammed to me. It did not look very bloody to me.

You get a Toriamos, another Toriamos needle drop second of the season in that sequence. Anything you want to, I mean, I think it's funny that that season one episode with the seance is called Blood Hive. And this is a literal blood hive of bees here that, what do you think is going on? Lottie. Lottie's coming unglued. What do you think? Let us never forget that Travis is the one we credit for the blood hive utterance because everybody's cycles had synced and they all their periods at the same time.

Yellow Jackets, nearly undefeated. I was interested in, again, these visual clues because as Lottie is running her hands through the bloody huddy comb, they're covered in blood, but then when she lifts them up to her face, they're clean. And so even before the ultimate, like, handing to the side who was speaking this creepy French, oh no, it's just a person asking, like,

if you're joining for lunch, this is not actually a thing that's happening. We're aware that we can't trust what we're seeing. So with these visions that Lottie gets, but also then this context of this call for blood, this need for blood, this gets back to what you were noting with Jackie at the beginning, this idea of a sacrifice. And then, of course, across timelines, this pairs with the birds and the blessing that Lottie is calling for and the placing of the birds at Lottie's feet.

Like, was this bloody honeycomb a vision of what is to come and like other Lottie visions, it will happen. Is it a warning? Is it a harbinger and a blood sacrifice of some sort as necessary to avoid it? And then if that is, it is it bad that Walter is in en route? Okay. Protect Walter. I, as much as I'm sure that Coach Ben is going to die before the season, I'm pretty sure Walter's not making out of the season, but I want Elijah Wood to be so charming that the showrunners change their mind like they did with Van. And he, He becomes a serious regular. I don't want to live in a yellow jacket's world without Elijah Wood at this point.

Okay. But my thought was, I mean, it could be any of those. My thought was that it was tied to guilt. So the two hallucinatory moments that we are aware of that Lottie has had in her adult life so far is the Laura Lee vision when Travis is just, you know, chilling out trying to half kill himself to be absolved of whatever. And then the blood in the honeycomb. And the blood in the honeycomb, I was thinking about this idea, like, going back to what Lottie says to Nat about the queen killing the other queens. And, you know, Nat's like, yeah, no wonder you think it's interesting, whatever, you know. So, like, is it guilt that Lottie feels about what happened to some of the other women out there in the wilderness?

and, you know, is she as Queen Bee in some version? I mean, I really think all of this is headed towards Shauna versus Lottie as two, like, pillars of power. I don't see a Shauna Lottie alliance happening. It seems like two different kinds of, it's like the spiritual and then the, like, carnal or something like that. I don't have it fully sussed out. But if she feels guilty for what happened to Lord, Laura Lee, she shouldn't, but if she does, if she feels guilty about what happened to the

other queens and the hive, et cetera, is that the kind of torment that she's experiencing? That's interesting. And particularly so, like, through the lens of something she says in that Queen Bee exchange with that, like it isn't brutal. It's natural. It's simply what has to be done. Otherwise, they starve. We all do. And kids die all the time, Mallory. Last of us, by the way, if you're listening to this and you didn't watch last of us. We actually just said. It's a quote. It's a Melanie Linsky reference.

Okay. Oh, boy. But I think one of the things that's really stood out to us this season is this calming, soothing, absolving you of your worries and your guilt presence that Lottie is. And some of that would work inward, too. And so, like, the thing that was, I think, most notable about the honeycomb sequence was Lottie's helpable terror and alarm that this was happening. And how much of that is maybe the, like, encroachment of these visions into her life again.

How much of it is maybe a call and a pull on that guilt like you're noting. And how much of it is that she's worried about what it, what it's, what, this is an omen and what it might be indicating, you know, awaits around the end. Yeah. Yeah. Interesting. Send us your French thoughts. Hobbits and dragons to Gmail.com. I didn't drop the email at the top of the episode. But listen, we are not French experts.

What is that in French? What's hobbits and dragons in French? Obitz and dragon. Gmail.com. I'm sure once upon a time I knew how to say dragon in French. I don't think I've ever known how to say Hobbits and French. I do think there is an big... Correct me if I'm wrong.

Again, I'm not a French scholar. I think there is pronoun ambiguity in Ilvesantant, which is he or it. And I think whether it's he or whether it is of interest to me, at least. All right, before we leave this section, we're just going to do Nat in 1996, which is her bringing Jackie to the plane, her having this like really upsetting. I think you're the lucky one moment with Jackie's remains. And then this moose encounter, which may or may not be real. I'm tempted to think it's real, but whether or not it's real, if you ever want to hear Joanna Robinson, Mallory Rubin go long on the symbolic nature of meeting a majestic white-horned creature in the forest, you'll want to listen to the hunt episode of a House of Dragon deep dive that we did, where a, you know, future queen sees a white stag in this forest. This idea of a white stag and how it confers authority on you. And this is a moose on a stag, but I mean, it's, you.

it's still in the same bucket. How are you feeling about this white moose situation? I think if it had been a stag, and there are plenty of stags in the show so far, like the fact that it wasn't felt pretty deliberate because, like, instead of symbolizing regeneration or rebirth or something like that, like a moose is a symbol of strength. And so is that, especially with a character like Natalie,

like the idea of perseverance, is, I think, so interesting because other characters are often trying to pull at her or getting her to doubt something about herself. And so Nat in particular, seeing something like, stay the course, be strong, was fascinating to me. Obviously, it's like impossible not to think of the throne stag. It's very difficult here. I know I'm not to jump ahead to Lost Corner, but very difficult not to think about

a charging white polar bear over in Lostland. 100%. Impossible. And I think, like, I know we just talked about the ending. Do you think it's real, by the way? I do because of like the way the plane shifts, right? Yeah, there's three things. Like, I guess I guess Nat could have also hallucinated the jostling of the plane.

But if you just look at the ground, like the snow itself is disturbed in a way that I think indicates something actually did pass through that lane. But in this, and I know we just chatted about Lottie, but in terms of the 96 Lottie with the birds, like this idea of animal behavior in the episode just felt like very central, like the birds falling from the sky, which made me think of Chernobyl. And I don't know. I was like sociopathic to say the word Chernobyl and then cackle for 10 seconds on a podcast. But kids die all the time, Henry. It did make me think of, I apologize.

It did make me think of of Chernobyl. And on the bird front, I also, can we talk for a second? Do you want to do this later in Theory Corner or about the iron line for Misty? Well, I love that. Okay. So, because of what the theory you floated last week. Right. And I just, it made, first of all, it made Misty feel like a citizen detective, right?

It made, Misty, one of us, one of a yellow jacket subredder board who was like, what is the possible logical explanation? What is the scientific explanation for that? makes Misty one of us, which she always is in some degree or another. Yeah, the birds and the bees. The dead birds and the dead bees. Oh, my God, exactly. The mineral theory that you floated last week, and just in case anybody's just tuning into this one,

didn't hear that one, Joe noted the number of theories on the internet tying the symbol that we see to like minerals, right, in this question of whether there could be something in the environment there that is causing hallucinations, this behavior, things like the red water that we saw in season one. So Misty specifically calling out, maybe we know that there's a lot of iron in the ground,

so maybe a mess with the bird's navigation. Not only brings that theory back to the top of our minds and thinking about what else is going on in the ground there, which we've talked about a lot with the symbol and these tree hollowed out tree stumps and the tree carvings and like, is this a lost hatch equivalent or people hiding underground? just hearing it something,

it messed with blank navigation. Like I think it's hard not to think about whether that's what crashed the plane. Like pulling the plane down from the sky and the equivalent of the birds falling from the sky and the plane falling from the sky and what is pulling something from the air down the incident.

Exactly. Yes. What is pulling the yellow jackets to this supernatural charge? Island, excuse me, Forest. Yeah. Desmond, you got to push that button or else bad things happen, you know. All right, let's talk about Jeff and Shawna in a family-friendly dining establishment,

you know, a Golden Corral, a Denny's, if you will, having a conversation about strawberry loop. And I just need to say that Jeff's saying that stuff is for bisexuals and gots. That's my quote of this episode, Jeff, King Jeff. I could have gone strawberry. I almost did. I'll just never forget it for as long as I live. But, and it's funny and hilarious. But it ties into this ongoing theme of this episode of the season of the series of like the choices. The choices, for Jeff, it's mocking strawberry lube. For Ben, it's getting on the plane and not moving in with Paul, et cetera, et cetera. Making yourself, making choices, reconciling multiple sides of yourself. Jeff, you can be a strawberry lube guy and the guy who works at the furniture emporium or whatever it's called. And we're going to talk about Crystal and Missy in a second, this idea of becoming, making yourself. But I just love that, like, Yel Jack is a show that can wedge, you know, slip that in there in the midst of a strawberry loop conversation. I totally agree. It felt so emblematic of that signature blend of some sort of discomforting humor and something like very thematically rich, like introspection.

And I think with, like, you're noting with Ben and Jeff and that, like, identifying a really precise moment, like a fork in the road in your life where you either just. decide to accept who you are or change who you are. And then, like, do the people around you accept you too, which is another theme that we've been tracking across the season. The excitement conversation was another, like, all-time Yellow Jacket. See, this is one of my favorite scenes, this diner scene in Yellow Jackets history. I just could not have loved it more. When Shauna said it wasn't about you, I mean, sure, it was exciting.

Exciting. Oh, that's not the right word. Jeff's face here. It's like, no, it wasn't about you. I mean, yeah, sure, his dick is huge. He made me orgasm nine times. But no, no, no, sorry, that's not what I meant to say. It's just this poor guy.

But then you get again, like you're saying in the other part of that conversation, this kind of moving thing right on the tail of that, where we go from the humor of that moment to Shauna really trying to explain what drove her to do this and then keep doing it. And she said, it made me feel like I didn't know what was going to happen. And I liked that. I liked not feeling like this boring version of me. And we talked in episode one about the moment where in Adams Art Studio, Shawna, in the

context of the conversation about thinking about Jeff being with other people, said, like, I used to think that may be some kind of pervert. And he said, what do you think now that I like being the way I am? And this is like yet another moment here that I think really, really. effectively reinforces that that hasn't always been true for Shawna. And something, it's not that she's discovering it. It's that she's rediscovering it. And these things that are unlocking that for her is unfolding in real time. And then like you get that from both of their perspectives. Like it's not just the carjackings and the gun heist and the ritualistic perhaps cannibalism. Like from Jeff's

perspective, you can't relate to the things that the characters are doing, but you can relate to the way they feel, right? So you get that with Shauna there. And then with Jeff, it's like, nobody wants to feel like inadequate, right? So you get that from his perspective too. And you're not really like on either of their sides, which I think is also a neat trick that they're pulling with this dynamic because Jeff continues to be super supportive, including in the gym showdown, which was such a funny scene. But he's really struggling. Like the look on his face here, The look on his face when he hears how many text messages they had exchanged. The look on his face when he saw the paintings, like the constant reminders that this is

a thing that not only happened, but kept happening. It's weighing on him. So only we need to talk about, though, is because, you know, so Jeff says, I could have gone strawberry, right? But what is his immediate reaction in this conversation? Like, Jeff shows himself to be the most vanilla milkshake that ever was poured by his solution being let's go to Colonial Williamsburg. You ever churned butter? I mean, I haven't.

I've been to Colonial Williamsburg and actually my nephews and my sister just went to Colonial Williamsburg and sent me a photo. By the way, speaking of the way in which our culture is changing, there's this really cute photo of my sister, me, when we were kids at Colonial Williamsburg where we like went in the stocks. They no longer allow people to like go into the stocks at Colonial Williamsburg. So my nephews, there's like my nephews recreated the photo, but like, had to sort of like pose you can't open the stocks anymore anyway helicopter parents i have

some notes about that anyway um i i have i have a question for the reddit detectives the citizen detectives who are listening to this podcast who are on the subreddit you will already be all over this but the song here is a song called take me down by a band called sonic disturbia uh it's from 2005 my shazam identified it i found it on spotify it exists on spotify but this is like a mystery song and a mystery band because I googled, like, using my, I'm pretty good at Googling, like narrowing down terms, something like that. No record on the internet. On Spotify, it's the only song by them.

It has, like, negative, like, it has so few listens on Spotify. So, like, one possibility is that this is, like, friend of the showrunners, and they're, like, put their friend's song in the show. But even, like, any band should have some sort of digital footprint. And this band does not, and it is cooking my noodle. So if you guys can figure out some more information, I would like to know it. Or possibly I'm just making something out of nothing. Is this a clue?

What is this? Was their first album called, Are You Rambo? Or is that just what Jeff shouted at Shawna after she disarms the carjacker? But, I mean, again, to your point, that's a moment where Shauna could have perfectly handled that situation. And Jeff is, like, unwilling to accept that side of her. Like, he's trying. But, like, if he had just let, like, are you? Rambo. Yeah, Shauna is Rambo.

Shana will see in a person. He's come up against the limits of what he can welcome and accept. We did, we mentioned last of us already, but we got the Kathleen Kansas City car dup pulled on a Melanie Linsky character here. It's all connected. It is. But I, if I were... In the prestige TV podcast universe. If I were, Sean, I would just never get back in that minivan. Too many bad things happen. Um, we got a couple emails from, you speaking that Kevin and Jeff showed out in the gym, which you mentioned. I'm going to let you ISO on Kevin's hat in a second, but we got a couple emails from various lawyers who listen to this podcast.

Thank you so much. Shout out to Katie and a couple others who answered our question about text messages. And what's true is that you can subpoena, get the records, get the text messages. You have to do it quickly, but you can have access to that. You need a search warrant, but you can do it. But it will be pages and pages and pages and pages and pages and pages and pages and pages of information. information. So it's possible that Kevin is like seeing the records, you know, you could see who texted who. But in terms of the content of the text, it's possibly he hasn't gotten to Shawna.

I don't know why he wouldn't go directly to the Shawna section. If I were him, I would just fast forward and go there. But I learned a bit about this from watching the great underrated TV series last year, the girl from Plainville, where I watched people pour over reams and reams of text messages. But yeah, speaking of Kevin Tan's hat, Mallory, what do you want to say about that? I just all, I want to say Jeff's arms looked great. I loved how rude he was to the guy he thought was going to take his machine. Take his machine. I love a hat.

In general, I'm a fan of everything Kevin is doing this season. But the hair sticking out in the front with the hat, it just, it, it, it doesn't seem practical for a workout. Do you want the sweaty hair dripping your face? I don't know. I've never had a plane crash in the woods and then become a cannibal. And also, I don't go to the gym. So I can't really comment.

But it stood out. It stood out, Joe. As did what I felt like was an extreme mistake from Jeff in this entire conversation. Just doing it at all. But first of all, we're always on who's going to learn what someone else has done to fuck them watch in yellow jackets. How long until they realize that Cali is the one who spilled here? Because not that many people know about the affair. And find out that an adult man undercover bought her drinks,

in a bar. That feels like it's coming. I think that Jeff has, I fear, inadvertently made himself the leading suspect after this exchange, that he has taken the direction away from Shawna onto himself because he was so just overtly, abjectly guilty in everything that he said here. I think a solid blanket statement is the Sedeckis are bad at crime. Like, Shawna is like, was bad at crime. Shauna is, well, I don't know, Misty might be great at crime. We'll find out.

Walter sniffed out Misty's lie in a second. But that's Walter, and he is also a super detective. Do you know what I mean? Shauna is, like, good at doing a crime, but maybe bad at covering up a crime because here we see her turn the gun on the carjackers. We already heard part of her speech

at the beginning of this episode. Let's hear the pertinent skin part of the speech. Carlos, we play this for us. This is cut. But I don't have time. Have you ever peeled the skin off a human corpse? It's not as easy as you might think. It's really stuck on us skin.

You have to roll back just the edges of it so you can get a good enough grip to really pull. Which again isn't easy. People are always so sweaty when you can. Kill them. Oily. We already mentioned that this exposes Shana as like a hunter of man. It's the people are always sweaty.

Yes. She did this. Folks, it's worrying. Many times. All right. We got this email from Jessica basically asking, are the protagonists of the villains and the like list the various sins of like our core for, let's say. And I just want to address that really quickly and just say yes.

and in the words of the prophet, Billy Elish with love and respect, like, duh, I'm the bad guy. Like, yes, this is an anti-hero show starring women and we're so unused to seeing women in this role. But, like, obviously, this is, like, what we see from Tony Soprano,

what we see from Walter White, what we see from Dexter Morgan, etc. And I love this. There are very rare examples of female anti-heroes in the TV landscape. There's, like, Nancy on weed. or there was a couple seasons of a television show Unreal that was on Lifetime about a reality TV producers that I would call female antiheroes. But like it's so rare.

And that's one of the like the juice, part of the juice of yellow jackets is getting to see women, not only women, women, women over 40 like do this shit is really fun and exciting. By the way, I really just wanted to quote Billy I wish I don't actually think duh is an appropriate response to anything. And I had Jessica wrote a really good email. But like, I was thinking about this. Forgive me. And my brain is kind of like Taylor Swift era's tour cooked. But I was thinking about this in the like evolution of the Taylor Swift persona where you start. I'm not a huge Swift head, but like Swifty.

But like you start with like marry me, Julia, you'll never have to be alone. Right. That's like how Taylor Swift starts. And then there's like the pick me era of like she's cheer captain. I'm on the bleachers. That's like the pygmy era of Taylor Swift. Then we go through a lot of shit. And we're here in the anti-hero era.

It's me, hi, I'm the problem. It's me, Taylor Swift era. And this is sort of like, it maps the evolution of what we're willing to accept from women from female characters from female stories. And like, I have to imagine a lot of people who watch yellow jackets are Swifty. So I don't think I lost you entirely there. But I just think it's like, yes, these, like, these are the bad guys. But in good.

television makes those bad guys empathetic. You feel emotionally connected to them. So, like, Misty killed Jessica, but I don't want Missy to get caught for that. And I don't want Sean to get caught. And I don't want – well, Nat apparently hasn't done really anything wrong yet. And I am – in the same way that, like, I didn't want Walter White or Dexter Morgan or whoever to get caught because, like, I want this story to go on. And I'm emotionally interested in them. I don't know.

What do you think? Yeah. Yeah. I think it was, I was thinking of, of Walter Wright, not Walt from loss, but Walter Wright, as you were saying all of that. You know, when Sean was talking about her hand shaking and saying how badly I wanted to do this, there's like this relish and this almost intoxication at being able to like channel and touch that darkness again. And, you know, even though these are very different things, it reminded me a lot of like our conversation in the Last of Us pods about one of the great achievements of that. that show and the game, the story overall, like taking this idea of love and not just making it a neat, tidy, easy, cure-all thing, asking the question, like, well, where does love lead

you sometimes? And I think that Yellow Jackets is doing its version of that with this idea of, like, embracing who you are, which is the thing that we would say in a vacuum is good and like something you should strive to do. And even inside of the show in many particular cases, we want our characters to do that. But the show is also asking the question, like, well, what is the cap on that, then? Where are the checks? If you don't run them on yourselves and you don't have the society to run the society of norms to run them for you? And, like, can you balance? Can you find the balance of embracing who you are and channeling power and the way that it makes you feel and how, like, a clear, honest sense of self makes you feel and allows you to navigate your own life with, like,

basically not endangering yourself and your family and other people, you know? And seeing how each of the characters is able to manage or maintain that balance is ultimately, I think, one of the central focuses of the show. It's not to put them in a neat and tidy, like hero or villain, good or evil camp. It's like that is inside of all of us. And they, they lived in that truth in a unique and harrowing and life-altering way. So what does that mean for everything they do from that moment forward when the context around them has completely changed. And I think if I love that. And I think if you think about the core four, and I might be tempted to change it to like

the core six as we add like Van and Lonnie into the conversation. Like it seems like-Laddy's got as much focus this season as anyone. Skisming and stuff like that. But like to like let's just contrast tie to Shauna, the self-awareness that Shauna shows here. So speaking of Walter White, no major spoilers for breaking bad. But like it takes Walter White until the phenomenal. to say, I did it for me. I did it because I liked it.

Shana, you know, he says, I did it for my family in the Logan Roy model, right? I did it for my family for seasons, right? In the, Shauna saying, like, I'm, my hands shaking because I'm excited because I like this, is a self-awareness that is such, is such in contrast to ties complete schism, right? To ties complete denial of the darker side of herself. so much so that, you know, they're talking to each other. They're two different entities. It's really interesting to me.

Let's go back to 1926. Shana is grappling with her Jagal. As you say, Lottie is in this, like, comforter, it's okay sort of role. And Lottie is like, I know, we'll have a baby shower. What better do you just see for eating your friend than to throw a baby shower? Lottie's also convinced the baby's a he? And the way that she is so invested in this baby is giving me the strongest Rosemary's baby. Fives as you've never seen Rosemary's baby, iconic horror film, of course.

Mia Farrow's character, Rosemary, is pregnant with the Antichrist, Satan's Seed. And there are these neighbor characters who are constantly sort of like officiously caring about her health and well-being and stuff like that. And it turns out that they are Satanists, sorry, spoilers to Rosemary's baby, because they want her to, like, deliver the antichrist determinants. And I'm not saying that that's who Lottie is, but that's the vibes of this sort of like communal glee. There's like, on the one hand, yes, you would want something good. Like, let's have a baby. Let's let's think of something good. But on the other hand, it's just sort of like the conviction that it's a key.

Yeah. Well, and even just like it indicates that Ladi has seen something, you know, again, has had a vision, has glimps something. and is not telling Shawna what, which feels even if it's well-intention and pure, like very fucked up and wrong. I think like the other thing is that on the heels of the present day, Shana chat, like Lottie makes a suggestion to try to make everything feel normal

and to make Shauna feel okay because Shana is so badly struggling. And part of that is saying, but I wanted it. I wanted it too. And at that point, like that contrast of Shaana's, that Shauna can't come to terms with what she wants. And that feels right. It would be a process.

A process to a 25-year process, maybe? That part of yourself, I think. But even here, like, everything feels out of control. Like, I don't know what's going to happen next. That's the exact thing that in the present day, Shana is saying excites her, not knowing what's going to happen next. So I thought this was a really fascinating what has changed for Shana over time episode, seeing those points of distinction. Misty and Crystal, as they, I agree.

Missy and Crystal as they prep, their devoted friendship blossoms. I've few things I need to point out. First of all, they don't outright say it, but what seems clear to me is that Misty wanted to make bone broth out of Jackie's remains, right? Without a doubt. And I think if you've already eaten Jackie,

you should do that. Might as well, right? Yes. Yes. Absolutely. And Crystal's like, I think it was a great idea. But I really reject the idea of calling Bowbroth snack. Like, you can't, that's not a snack.

That's not a snack at a baby shower. Maybe if you're starving in wilderness, maybe. But like a tray of devil eggs is a snack. As Misty knows. Jackie Boehraub is not a snack. But then so later, they're huddled under this like tapestry. I really want to know who packed this, like, gauzy, cost plus world market tapestry on the way to nationals.

But they're huddled under this, having their little private, cute friendship moment and talking about drama, because Crystal, of course, is a theater kid. And Misty getting into drama, this thing that Misty says about watching actors when she says, I am always in awe whenever I can see someone becoming someone else. And then Crystal later, when she's talking about the art of putting together a character, says, it's all about failure. You keep failing to find what's true about the character.

And then Missy's like, what if you never do? And she says, then you find the ultimate truth, which is we're made of lies. Right. the quickness with which Crystal went from charming, charismatic sidekick to one of the creepiest characters on the show in the... I absorbed my twin. Chat, and then I absorbed my twin reveal. Just vintage yellow jackets to watch this kind of bonding.

But as was that, like, I'm always in awe moment because it's unsettling in a way, but then also kind of inspiring, which is just their signature brew. But that lies line, we got a couple versions of that in the, in the episode, always around Misty, because you have that one from Crystal, but you also have Walter in the present day with the everyone's hiding something idea, which could just be the log line of the show, right? So to see Misty go from feeling shame in uttering, Oh, this like didn't really taste that bad to the literal leaning in and embrace of a like-minded person who, again, that's got a idea of acceptance, accepts her for who she is, and getting this across timelines and with different characters. Is that a good thing? Well, we're programmed to think so that somebody accepting you for who you are is a good thing. We hope so. We love Crystal. We love Walter. They're basically two of our favorite things about season two so far. But is there a pull to the darkness, too? Is there a pull to something on natural, and unholy that awaits when somebody lets you be that fullest version of yourself inside of this universe. What's the danger of knowing? Because Jessica and Misty had this weird little bond in the

basement. You know what I mean? Like, what's the danger of knowing a Misty? You know? All right. Then we have to talk about Misty's incredible one woman show with Crystal, like giving her a little like big arms frame like a support at the baby shower. If you've never seen Steel Magnolias, this is the second most iconic speech line from Seal Magnolia is the most iconic is Drink Your Juice, Shelby. But this is from Queen of Hysterical Tears Sally Field. And rather than play Misty's version, I want listeners to hear Sally Fields version. So this is Sally Fields from Steel Magnolia. I don't think I can take this. I don't think I can take this. I just want to hit somebody until they feel as bad as I do. I just want to hit something. I want to hit it on.

Shout out to Misty for capturing the way that Sally Field's southern accent goes hot, like the way that no actual southerner has ever said that word. You know, Still Magnolia is a very famous film that is like female-centric, the problems of women and the stressors and the comforts of female friendship and stuff like that. It's like a perfect film to think about when you're thinking about yellow jackets, despite the fact that nobody eats anyone in that movie. But I want to hit somebody till they feel as bad as I do. Yes.

I mean. Traveling Symphony coming to Yellow Jackets Wilderness? Everyone went really quickly from being very embarrassed by what Misty was doing to just being absolutely wrapped. They're really into it. And I loved that for Misty. Same. I think you want to say about the dead birds that we haven't already said. I don't think so. I don't think so. I think we talked about the iron, what it might indicate. Lottie talking about the blessing, the offering up. You know, I guess this question of who they offer up next is on our minds. Is it going to be Ben? Is it someone or something else? Will they discover other people? Will they find Havi? Havi? Popsicle preserved in the snow. Yeah, Van and Misty are, of course, the ones bowing to Lottie once again. So, yeah. And we see a few people go in, but Ty,

while watching Van is one of the ones the camera focuses on. And to your point about Lottie and Shauna, Shauna's the other one who we really watch, not dig what is happening here. And it's like very plain on her face that she is alarmed and concerned. That whole conversation about like, you know, she's not a god, like Mari and all of them in that argument in the cabin. Okay, but we need to talk about Walter and Misty.

Sorry to move on. Well, just living on a boat called The Great Expectations. 10 out of 10, no notes. Did FX on Hulu sponsor this boat to promote the Olivia Coleman miniseries that's currently airing over there? Who can say? The music is playing, okay, so we should say that the Yellowjackus showrunners have said, like, don't read too much into the music.

Sometimes we just pick songs that we like. Okay, fair enough. But this song, Seither by Varouk Assault from 1994, is so interesting to me because, like, I was not very familiar with this song, but the concept of the song, is seather is this like alter ego that that uh the leids the leid's the leid's turn of rucousal has like created for her anger so at the intense uncontrollable angle she would experience sometimes she considered her temper to be a different person from herself called the seethe and and it's significant that it's like a something that seethes which is usually something like

women do with anger versus men and it's about trying to put a lid on something but but it is like boiling underneath and the lid is rattling and stuff like that. So, I mean, I love this song choice. I thought it was really interesting. Tell me, take us through. Okay, take your victory lap. Randy is our witness. Take me through Walter and Missy on the case here.

Getting to hear Walter say nautical life calls to me another instant inductee into the Lajah's Hall of Fame. This is just so wonderful. I was worried that this would lead to Missy and Walter being aware. of what Jeff and Randy had done. And if Randy had had his way, it would have because he is so quick after Misty sees that as Randy, she says, well, this guy,

I've known this guy's still in elementary school. He's going to know we're not the FBI. Hide's in the bathroom. Walter gets the digits, puts in the earbud, and Misty is feeding him questions and guiding the very, very focused on this remaining her investigation and her witness. What are you hiding?

Perhaps you're covering for a friend. this is the very beginning. And he says, you mean like Jeff? No follow-up questions from Misty or Walter. What do you mean? What are you hiding for Jeff? Is there anything you'd like to tell us about Jeff? They just switch right to Nat.

But even though Jeff's blackmail plot wasn't revealed there, I do think this primes us for Randy being a real vulnerability. And either something that's going to bite them in the ass, or they've got a lot. Bad of crime. Or they've got a lot of loose ends that they have not properly tied up. I also thought that the, forgive me, I have IBS excuse to duck out when Walter wasn't sure how to navigate the one Misty was feeding him. It was just top tier tremendous work.

I'm obsessed with Misty just like casually rifling through his medicine cabinet in the bathroom there. Also, his boots called Great Expectations. She right away makes a Serenau reference. Boring and verbose is what she calls Serenow. They love the classics. Keep these kids together forever is what I say. You know, Walter hitting Randy and then like kind of liking it. Yeah.

And then he picks up like a little, I don't know what that was. Yeah. As it looks like what my orthopedist used to remove my cast when I broke my arm when I was a kid. I don't know. What is it doing on a boat? I have questions. I don't know. Maybe it's to cut rope or something.

I don't know. Yeah. But it was weird. Walter sheaped very into it. Yeah. He was having good time. Again, which makes him perfect for Misty. Then they have like a little post game confab, right?

They're playing back the tape. And Walter offers a Mountain Dew and Tahitian treat, which I had to Google because as Mallory and I revealed to each other, we are Hawaiian Punch People. I've literally never heard of Tahitian treat, but it is a thing that you can drink. Mountain Dew being one of only two beverages that you keep in your home. It's just astonishing stuff from Walter. I think also... A soda episode.

Living on a... Yeah, exactly. Living on a boat doesn't necessarily mean you're like super rich, but it is a very nice boat. Like, it is a sizable boat. Annie says he has enough money to, like, put up a woman who he's not related to into a care home. How loaded is Walter, is my question? Great question. that's a great question. It could be a lie because a lot of what they're saying to each other

is a lie, even initially referring to her as mom before then revealing inside of the same episode that she is not actually his mom. Yeah, good old Svetlana. And Misty was confused by that, or at least pretending to be, but seemed to be genuinely confused by that. But then in a very charming way, not by the idea that he had put on, had put on some sort of front, that he had done it to get close to her, which was like so... Why would you do all of that just to meet me? Don't kill him, Misty, please. But then what did he say in response to that, Joe?

Maybe I'm just a bored Moriarty looking for his Sherlock. Okay, so, on the one hand, maybe like the most romantic thing that Misty could have heard. However... Moriarty is an enemy. He's a supervillain, yeah. Yeah. Like, he didn't say Watson. He's not talking about a partner.

He's talking about a genius. level nemesis and foe. But also like a criminal mastermind. So maybe that part will come in handy. But also this is like shout out to the Beddina Cumberbatch, Andrew Scott Shippers, who were rooting for those two to smooch. Yeah, he wants to play chess with her, right? Like against her and with her, I think, at the same time.

An intellectual equal. That's what they're both looking for. A marriage of true minds to bring another classic into the mix, right? Great calves while we're at it. Muscular calves. All right. Text from Walter says, Cherry Corners, New York. fancy a road trip Asian

I'm sorry Still in her contacts with his citizen detective bureau handle and not his actual name Walter even though she knows it now which is wonderful He's calling her Agent Gray You know what I mean?

I just love this Cherry Corners New York Do you think that's where Has to be the bee farm is? Okay It has to be I mean unless unless the members

of Lottie's cult are just blazing a path of phanta consumption and have a credit card that traces back to a hometown. And that's not like the blazing a path of phanta consumption. It does look like it could be, you know, an Adirondack area. Are we in the Finger Lakes somewhere? Yeah, Cherry Corner sounds like Finger Lakes to me. Yeah.

So that just seems like where. I've been on a cider tour around the Finger Lakes of New York. We spent one passionate week saying this was the wilderness and now we've moved onto this is this is new york which is fine we hold these theories loosely like i'm pretty sure lisa is not someone's child that lottie raised because given how they interact in these last two episodes i am quietly laying that theory to rest all right we're going to move on to citizen detective corner uh we're going to keep this quick any we got an email from jack about the starry soda that's sedecchi i've seen a couple people notice that that the sedecis are drinking again

this is a big soda soda soda time soda clues starry soda which i had never heard of. Oh, the Sierra Mistreplacement. Yeah, came out January of this year, January 2023. You know I'm a LaCroix person. I'm not a soda person. So like, I mean same. Yeah. January 2023, Starry Soda comes out. What the fuck is it doing in the Sedecki kitchen when allegedly we're in 2022? Is this a way to sort of like fuzz the line into present day so we're not behold into the 22, 2022 timeline anymore? Is this a continuity error? Or as Jack introduced delightfully at the end of this email, are the Sedeckies a year ahead of the rest of the end don'ts.

Which, no, but. Boy, I feel like someone on set just really liked Starry Soda. That's going to be my official guess. But even though we learned that Shawna was writing in the journals for Jackie and we closed the book literally on the time-traveling

Jackie season one popular theory, maybe now we have opened the time-traveling Starry-Soda. Yeah, which, you know, why not? Let's have fun. Is the simple a map, this was floated to me by

my pal Kristen Rousseau. Are the underground tunnels? Is this why the snow was melted around the weird moss tree? Is that where Hobby is? Is Desmond in there too?

Yes. Is this relate to Lottie's underground bunker visions? Make your wrong kind of music. Mallory, are there underground tunnels and is the symbol that we see a map to them?

Okay, so we have been and will continue to track, we'll be tracking all of the lost comps. I genuinely really like this and think that this could be true. I definitely think that the hollowed out tree trunks are, and the melted snow trunk areas

are marking something beneath. I think that's very likely. My only reservation, honestly, is that it is such a one-to-one with the hatch and with the Dara stations, with loss, and I wonder if they would be reluctant to do it because it would be so similar.

The only, the thing that makes me continuously circle back to it is like Lottie's vision of being in this like concrete tunnel sort of industrial looking area with all the candles that she had when she was baptized. Like, where is that? What is she thinking about? Like, what is that? Yeah, I agree. The only thing that makes me resistant to it.

Shout out to Kristen Rousseau is the best. But like the only thing that makes me resistant to it is like it's so close to loss. But I mean, honestly, what does that stop that? for. Okay. Yeah. It's, these are marking Dharma sites and Javier has been taken by the others and he's there in room 23 and the moose is the polar bear and and they're going to have to hand over or someone's going to take Shauna's baby who will grow up to be Alex Russo and it's all going to go exactly

that way. Why not? It's all happening. Watch loss if you haven't. Okay. Quick Paleyfest download. just some, two remaining things from Paleo Fest that I want to shout out. One is Kevin Elvis, who plays Travis, talked about the sex scene with Nat and Lottie, our spiritual

threesome that happened. And he said that seeing Lottie while having sex with Nat was partially about how his old attitudes about quote unquote toxic masculinity are being challenged by Lottie. This blew my mind because I don't understand it at all. But I mean, Travis, like, Travis had some, like regressive things that like I think I find him very progressive for a 90s boy and so like this idea that he's laboring under toxic masculinity I mean like I suppose we all are in some degree or another but like

you know he makes some like snide remarks about periods and all sorts of stuff like that but you know and but ultimately and like Nat's body count and all sorts of stuff like that yeah he does make Nat feel bad for how many people she's fucked though that ends up being more about the guy who bullied him but yes it's still very uncool It's not great.

But what is law? I mean, is it accepting her power, her leadership? We don't know. If you have thoughts about this take from Kevin, I'm very curious. I'm very interested in that develops. Response to Lottie was literally to bring a boner. Yeah. Listen, it's a process.

Okay. Oh, God. And then the showrunners confirmed that cannibalism is not. the big, bad secret thing that the core for are worried about being uncovered. Things will become much more, quote, unquote, morally complicated throughout the season. Let's bring loss back onto the table, Mallory. Did they leave people behind in the forest? And do they have to go back for them?

Javi and the baby. Havi and the baby. That's genuinely what I think. I think Havi. I don't know about the baby, but I definitely think Havi is maybe still there, living with the hatch people. I love Theory Corner. Again, that's another loss comp, leaving people behind and lying and lying about it.

When we ever see anybody in a cage attempting to figure out how to get a biscuit? How dare you say the word biscuit? Not bad biscuit. Not bad biscuit. No Steve update in this episode, worrying. I'm sure he still, well, yeah, who's watching him while everyone's at the hospital? Where is he even? Uh, best needle drop.

Tori. I want to pick Tori. I got to be true to my like Lilithair self. Not that Tori's not deeply connected to Lilithair, but I got to pick Natalie Merchett, 10,000 maniacs. These are the days. Great song. Just the can't stop what's coming. Can't stop what's on its way.

Very ominous. By the way, I sent a clip. I was in trying to get that French translated, I sent a little audio clip of it to a friend of mine who speaks friends. It's just that tiny little audio clip. And he was like, is this from yellow. jackets. And I was like, was it the ominous French of the Tori Amos together on the track that dipped you off? All right. Signature brew. We've already talked about so many lost comps. The only one left that I want to shout out is in Coach Ben's vision of an alternative

whatever. Seeing the crash footage on the news reminded me there's like a couple times when the 815, flight 815 lost crash footage pops up on the TV, I think, mostly about Daniel Faraday, like watching it and crying and stuff like that. So that's what it made me think of. The situations are a little different, but I'm always eager to think about Daniel Faraday. Anything else you want to say on the last front? I mean, the white moose polar bear is just, yeah.

Hatch, hatch, hatch. All right, that does it for us. We'll be back next week. Thanks, as always, to the great Carlos Sherbaugherboga for producing this episode. Hobbes and Dragons and Gmail.com with your theories, your legal expertise, your French translations, your strawberry lube opinions,

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