The Prestige TV Podcast - 'Yellowjackets’ Season 2, Episode 4 Recap

Episode Date: April 14, 2023

Mallory and Joanna break down ‘Yellowjackets’ Season 2, Episode 4, “Old Wounds.” They talk about Tai’s road trip to see Van, what Lottie is really up to, and of course, Misty and Walter’s journey to find Nat. Plus, they get into some theories about the locations on the symbols in the wilderness and the group’s questionable technique when trying to pull up a white moose from the frozen lake. Hosts: Joanna Robinson and Mallory Rubin Associate Producer: Carlos Chiriboga Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hi, I'm Erica Ramirez, founder of Ili, and hosts of What About Your Friends, a podcast dedicated to the many lives of friendship and how it's portrayed in pop culture. Every Wednesday on the ringer dish feed, I talk to my best friend Stephen Othello and your favorites from within the ringer and beyond about friendships on TV and movies, pop culture and our real lives. So join me every Wednesday on the ringer dish feed where we try to answer the question TLCS back in the day, what about your friends. It's like I told you.

I sought you out from Citizen Detective because I wanted to work with the brilliant, investigative mind that is Agent African Gray. And because you dropped a Sweeney Todd reference in one of your posts. I don't care. No offense, because I'm sure it was a significant trauma. But I don't care that you were a yellow jacket. That was like 30 years ago. 25.

And it's the least interesting thing about you. Oh, welcome back into the Prestige TV podcast feed. I'm Joanna Robinson joining me today. Wait, is that a little mouse in your pocket, Mallory? It's Mallory Rubin. Hello. Joanna, you like the odor-resistant crew socks, right? Can I just say that I almost made the crew sock joke,

but I was like, Mal's going to want that one, so I'll leave it for her. The second I heard it. I knew. Iconic stuff from Shana and Jeff. We're here to talk about Yellow Jackets Season 2, Episode 4, Old Wounds. Quick programming reminders elsewhere in the feed. You can hear bountiful succession coverage from, twice a week on this feed.

Also, Barry coverage is about to kick off. Just chalk a block full of stuff on this feed. Prestige feed, follow it. Why not? Also, if you want to hear Malibin and yours truly talk about the Mandalorian, stars, ever heard of it? That's over on the Ringiverse feed. So, you know, want to go check that out as well. Subscribe.

Malhouse, can people keep track of us? Yeah, glad you asked. Thank you. You're welcome. after you've followed the pod per Joanna's instructions, guidance, stage counsel, you can follow us on the social

media platform of your choosing. The ringer crew is everywhere. And if you have theories, if you have thoughts, if you have questions, you can send them to the always poppin, hobbits and dragons at gmail.com.

That's hobbits and dragons at gmail.com, not white moose popsicle at gmail. Come. Spoiler warning for today. Well, wait. Anyone who didn't know about the moose is fucked. Now you know about the moose. Sorry for the moose spoiler.

All right. We're talking about everything leading up to season two, episode four, Old Wounds. It's written by Julia Bicknell and Liz Pong, and it was directed by Scott Winnett, who is a breaking bad, better call sell guy. Also, he worked on Fargo season one, a bunch of stuff. Great stuff from him. Old Wounds. Mallory, what do you think that?

title is a reference to. What isn't it a reference to on yellow jackets? Honestly, this might be one of the most all-encompassing titles that we've had because there are the literal wounds that speckle like so many droplets of blood this entire hour of TV. And Joe, there are the emotional wounds. There are the spiritual wounds. The scars you don't see. As Allie would say in season one, trauma bond. There's the trauma bond. It's always there. And it's rear in its head across basically every character set in timeline in this episode. Something we haven't done in the past, but I might want to start doing because the one that cropped up this week really caught my eye is that on the website, they have like a little summary and they're kind of fun and peppered with clues. So the summary for this week is relive your youth by hitting the road. Take a road trip with your child. Go on vacation with a new friend. hitchhike if you must.

Just make sure you pack a good playlist for the ride. Some recommendations from us, colon, anything you can do. You get what you give. Instinct. A famous composition by Frank Comstock and absolutely not anything from Starlight Express. I get some of that.

Tough episode for Starlight Express. Boy, did Misty write this? It deserves everything it gets, honestly. I couldn't crack the famous composition by Frank Comstock. I didn't get that one. All right. Havasandragis at Gmail.com, if you have any idea what that is.

Our weekly unreliable narrator, a hallucinator counter. Lottie is our main culprit. Lottie, big time, you know, she went to the mall in her head. Whomst Among Us hasn't. Mari,

do you think there is actually a dripping sound or is Mari losing her marbles? What do you think? I think that I am the wrong person to ask because I am very sensitive to sounds. And I constantly will just be like, what is that? And there's no answer. But so I do, this is actually the most drawn I've ever felt toward Mari.

Oh, Mari is your favorite character now. Well, I wouldn't say that. I wouldn't say that. But throughout most of the rest of the episode, I am, you know, we're just a lot, like, texting each other as we watch about how we can't wait to see Mari in the bottom of the pit. And with the mystery dripping water, I'm just like, Mari, same. The keen agony of not being able to deduce where a sound that's driving you crazy is coming from, you know, this reminds me of, fill up on the crown.

Oh, yes. Yeah, the ship sounds. Yeah. But this is also theory fodder, because on the one hand, it could just be that the circumstances, the environment, really get into Mari, as it would to anyone. But maybe there's something else afoot Joe. Maybe there is, in fact, a mysterious trotter. trickle coming from one of the hatches that is under this.

I'm so excited. Hatches and tunnels. Like, okay, this is, before I watched the episode, Mallory, Texamese, she's like, there's so, there are like things in this episode, there's something for you, there's something for me, there's a bunch of theorizing, something for me, and we will obviously get to it, musicals. I didn't bother to ask you because I'm a bad friend. It's hatches for you.

you, right? So the text was something for you, something for me, and that's something that we share. So that hatch was actually, I think, our shared passion because of the loss connection. Hobby came back. Oh, hobby. Well, yeah. That's for all of us. That's for America. You know what I mean? Hobby lives.

I was just waiting for him to say, call me Adam now. But maybe that'll be how next episode. Were you waiting for him to take his layers off and reveal the back tattoo he got while he was missing? Let me show you my full back piece. that I've been working on these last couple months in the wilderness. All right, quick email corrections department before we get into the episode itself.

Okay, this first one is from Astra. And I'm so mad because I was certain there was some sort of group punch connection. And I couldn't find it, but Astra found it, which is that Walter offering Misty, Tahitian Treat last week is a parallel to Misty trying to get Sean and take home some Hawaiian Punch in the season premiere. Wonderful. They're meant to be. On the snack front, Lindsay would like to know why, well-documented jerky enthusiast Mal missed an opportunity to talk about Jackie Jerky. I'd like to thank you for your inquiry and for all of the meaningful time that you've spent with us.

You know, every now and then an email comes through and you're like, it's the old Bill Simmons mailbagism. These are our listeners, you know? You're better at the trenches. I do not know still how appropriate it is. to talk about eating people even while covering yellow jackets. It's like, do we talk about Jackie Jerky? Are we forever doomed if we talk about Jackie Jerky? What is the Jackie Jerky etiquette, Joanna?

I mean, you've really offered up what part of a friend you would eat, so maybe you're actually better equipped to answer this question. As someone who's not trying to tiptoe around the core subject matter, the show we're covering, I say Jackie Jerky is on the table. Speaking of which, if you had a, if your stomach turned at the thought of Jackie jerky, let me introduce you to this email from John. These are related. These are related. We should tackle these together. John says about Jackie leftovers, essentially. He says, let's say Jackie weighs 110.

She's small and decent shape, but probably lost some weight in the woods. How much of a human is edible versus bone? And skip ahead if you don't like this guys. How much of a human is edible versus bone or etc? Maybe 50% a bit less. So 50 pounds of edible tissue conservatively. Say you lose half of that in the fire, fat rendering, et cetera. That's 20 to 25 pounds of meat. They stripped her clean. Bare bones. Were they sucking the fingers dry? There were 12 of them at the table. That's two pounds of meat each. Ever seen a 32-ounce steak? I mean, what was left of Jackie fit in a reasonably sized backpack that can't have been more much other than bones? We all know what happens in Survivor, as far as you, email. They all know what happens in Survivor when they've been starving for weeks and gorge on steak

rewards. Vomit city almost every time. How do they eat that much food? Why do we not get more digestive issues the morning after? Malibin, why was the pea bucket not overflowing? How do you feel about this? I mean, you know, we're in it now. So let's just go for it. The real issue on survivor, it's not usually vomiting. It's just like just catastrophic diarrhea for everybody who gets a reward challenge. It's a plague out there on the island. You really get to know your tribe mates intimately. if you have won and shared a reward together on Survivor. I, yeah, I think that the tithe vomit was more of an emotional response. So this is an astute observation that we didn't get the,

my body doesn't know how to process all of this Jackie. But I agree that I don't think there was anything, I don't think there was anything left to make Jackie Jerky from. They could have made bone broth to Misty's point, but there was no meat left in the bone broth. But the bone broth tells us definitively that that's all they were working with. So, yeah, I mean, listen. What a television program.

I don't want to, like, Monday morning quarterback this whole banquet that they had, but I'm just saying, like, next time, ladies, next time you enter a fugue state and start consuming the roasted flesh of your dead teammate, try to pace yourselves. Squirrels in a way. I'll talk about rationing their meat. Where was the foresight with Jackie? Yeah. Are you still with us? Great.

Wonder if we're on some sort of watch list after the last five minutes of this podcast. My God. I asked our listeners how to pronounce the female followers of Dionysus. And I got, I'm not kidding, like 90 different versions of how to pronounce this. So I'll just say that I looked up YouTube videos of dusty elderly professors because I kind of trusted that they might know how to say this. And they went with my ass. So I'm going to go with mine ad going forward. If you disagree, you got to call a dusty professor and get them to tell me that I'm wrong.

Okay. But I will just say really quickly, this mine ad exploration set me down a rabbit hole of, I hope we will not have cult of the weak conversations going forward. But like, I found this video from this guy. He was talking about Hyperionism, which is like about having to do with Dionysus. And he was like, he called Dionysus the god of shadow, the god of sex, the god of madness. I was like, oh, that sounds relevant to our interests. And I was watching it. And then I was like, oh, no, I think this is cult stuff.

And then I asked a bunch of my, some of my pagan and wicked friends, I was like, have you heard of this? And they were like, yeah, that's a cult. I was like, cool, cool, cool. Okay. But I will say that some of the shadow stuff that he was talking about, he said that he was drawing from, I don't want to say his name because I don't want to be ever. advertising quotes. But he said he was drawing from Carl Jung and Jungian shadow self. So I just thought I would like hit us with a Carl Jung quote about the shadow self, right? Young wrote, one does not become enlightened by imagining figures of light, but by making the darkness conscious. The latter

procedure, however, is disagreeable and therefore not popular. Unfortunately, there can be no doubt that man is on the whole less good than he imagines himself or wants to be. Everyone carries a shadow. and the less it is embodied in the individual's conscious life, the blacker and denser it is at all counts. It forms an unconscious snag thwarting our most well-meant intentions. And so, like, when we talk about shadow self, this is Joanne again, not Carl Jung, when we talk about shadow selves.

Often confused. Yeah. Two of our greatest minds. And we should say, psychologists in general have rejected a lot of Jungian thought. So I'm not saying that this is the way. But if we're talking about shadow selves, like we have to think about Ty is the most like clear, the clearest example of that schism.

And so thinking about Ty even before the plane crash, when we first met her, what happened with Allie, all that sort of stuff. This idea of Ty is someone who has so repressed any either connection to spirituality or engagement with her darker tendencies that is just fully schismed inside of her. That doesn't explain some of the things she does this week.

But I think in general, a lot of what we've been talking about is this idea of embracing the whole of someone. And if that is the fact that they put barbiturants in cigarettes and like kill people or, you know, was Shauna stabbing at him? Like whatever it is, that shadow self and that you will not find peace or wholeness in your life. and tell you, what is that, Lottie, let the darkness in. So what do you think of some of this shadow darkness? Yeah, I mean, I agree with you that that tracks on most neatly currently to tie.

And I think, you know, when we get to Ty and Van later, we'll hit this in a little more depth. But I really loved that aspect of this episode with like the person who is closest to Ty and who 25 years later now, Ty, is seeking out actively. again, perhaps because of a moment like this in the past, where not only has Van been the person who has accepted Ty, who Ty has felt like she could show her full self, all of the parts and versions of herself, but this like kind of courtship at the end of the episode, the efforts that Van is making now to say, could I ever get you to join me over here? And I'm curious if like Taiza, and I think we'll talk about. a lot about a favorite lostism of ours and everyone who has loved and watched loss,

the man of science, man of faith divide, I think tracks, you know, pretty neatly onto the Nat Lottie plot in this episode. But I found myself thinking about it just as often with Ty as like a very Jack Shepherd-like figure in Yellow Jackets, who is firmly rooted in the science skeptic camp and ends up going on one of the most notable faith-driven journeys. And I wonder if where we're finding Ty in the present day is where she's been all this time, if that's a cycle,

because we're talking a lot about cycles in Yellowjackets as well. So, you know, when does that shadow move, move into, from out of the corners, like into the four, and then when does it become a thing that you fear and that can subsume the other parts of your life? And when do you allow everything to mix and be your full of self? And is that dangerous and bad scary? Or is it like a holy thing to pursue?

Maybe it depends on who's around you. And it's really interesting because I'm not sure we can point to any of these traumatized women and say that was the healthy path because I'm not sure anyone here is on the healthy path. I'm really looking forward now to Ty's Ty gets a tattoo episode. That's going to be a great one one for the books. That's a lost joke. Okay. Shout out to the Yellow Jacket subreddit because they posted this

variety interview that the great Kate Arthur did with the three showrunners, J.A.B. From June of last year that I missed, that had some like fun answers to some of the questions that we've been asking. Anything stick out to you from any highlights from this interview email that you want to talk about? pretty on brand here, but seeing Dark be Netflix television bonanza, three season jam dark cited by Ashley as a show that ended right, like this model of how to conclude a mystery box story. And I won't spoil Dark here, but I will say that it's a favorite.

And one of the reasons that I love it so much is because it asks big, sweeping questions and manages to, and I think a way that is pretty rare, answer a lot of them and also not a lot of them and have the balance feel right. There is this like ethereal mystical quality, a very kind of like romantic and spiritual quality, but then there's also like a tangible hard sci-fi quality to a lot of what happens at the end of dark. And I think it's a almost like unique calibration at the end of a show that has that many threads in the tapestry and could have gone. horribly wrong at any point but didn't. So it gave me like a lot of confidence hearing that cited as a thing that they really like enjoyed admire. I immediately thought of you. And like listeners, if content ever dries up, it won't. Mal and I will do a dark podcast. But there's too much fresh content drawing us to the light. Yeah, I will just shout out a couple other things from that interview. One that this question of the 25 year cycle actually gave. this interesting answer. It's a confluent, like, you know, Mal and I've been asking

this question, like, why now? Why 25 years later? Why is this all rising up here? And she says, it's a confluence of a number of factors. The why now is unanswerable because we're talking about trauma, the past and why it can haunt you. We have a number of answers, some more concrete than others, but we always want things to be open to interpretation. So like, I like this idea that's floating around that I've seen floating around of this idea of a 25-year cycle just generally because here's here's a here's a theory right at the top of the app like does the does whatever the it in the forest does it need on a 25-year cycle and do like cabin guy whose skeletal remains they find in the attic like when did he land that plane he could it it was that model of plane was that model of plane

was around 25 years previous 99. So, like, is this a 25-year cycle? Are we on a 25-year cycle? That would be fun and pixie. I wouldn't mind it. But, like, we did get even in this episode yet another, like with Lottie talking about how these visions have begun again, which we'd already, you know, deduced and talked about,

but we're really definitively stating this is happening for the first time in a really long time. Decades, yeah. Yeah, was a very notable, okay. This has resumed. There's a resumption happening here and mass across the character set. Are you looking for support in your weight management journey? Zepbound terseptide may be able to help. Zepbound is a prescription medicine used with a reduced calorie diet and increased physical activity to help adults with obesity. Or some adults with overweight who also have weight-related medical problems to lose excess body weight and keep the weight off. Zepbound is approved as a good.

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Tell your doctor if you experience vision changes before scheduled procedures with anesthesia if you're nursing, pregnant, plan to be, or taking birth control pills. Taking Zepound with a sulfonel urea or insulin may cause low blood sugar. Side effects include nausea, diarrhea, and vomiting which can cause dehydration and worsen kidney problems. Talk to your doctor. call 1-800-545-9979 or visit zepbounds.lily.com. All right, let's do the episode breakdown. We're going to start with another coach Ben flashback.

Again, shout out to the subreddit for coining Ben Appet, thinking about Ben next on the menu. This is a pretty short one. It's either, I don't know that it much matters whether or not it's like a flashback or an imagination of an imagined scenario, but it's this idea of Ben finding Paul a photo book of Paul's exes and a reminder that Ben didn't have that experience

didn't have the like the opportunity to create an entire photo book of exes and then like also the devastating line that's my past and you Ben are my future. Tough stuff. Any thoughts or feelings about Ben and Paul? This just continues to be almost excruciating said to watch. And I guess it is possible that they are playing on the certainty they knew we

would have as an audience being in the past with a character instead of a future to just feel like there's absolutely no way that this guy is making it out. And yet, despite being aware of that possibility, I remain certain that there's absolutely no. I mean, they are literally having conversations now in the cabin about eating Ben, which is now, I mean, I'm, I will tell you that I'm on a pivot. Are you swinging back? I'm swinging back. Ben, it's a, you know, a one-legged red herring.

I don't know. Something that Bart Nickerson, one of the showrunners, said about this choice of why to do these sort of flashback slash imagine scenarios for Ben and Paul is that he said a big part of the story was wanting to find a way to dramatize what would normally be a very internal process. So, like, being, like, being inside of. Ben's head allows us to access

the interior life of this character while that character is also isolating himself because Nat is really like the only person he is connected with and even they haven't had like a real real conversation in a couple ups. You know what I mean? So it's like I think that's a clever device. Our guy has spent it a lot of time alone in bed.

Yeah. Just like Brian Wilson did. So anything else I want to say about it? I thought that the question of if they were going to eat him was just historic and exceptional and I was so glad that it happened in this episode. I'll say broadly, this was my favorite episode of the season

by like a pretty comfortable margin. I thought that a lot of the characters had really great sequences and even a character like Ben who only got a couple moments really made them count. Another thing that we are trained to do, Joe, as lost enthusiasts, is look at a book.

that a character is holding and then obsess over what it might mean. Hell yes. This is the stuff Lionel. Like, this is it. Characters who read together. They will certainly form a lifelong book club. Wouldn't you agree? There's no book club?

It all connects. Yeah. It all connects. Have you read the book that Ben, this is back in the cabin in the wilderness, have you read the book that he was holding? The magicist. I have not, have you read? I have not.

but I immediately Googled it. Yes. It was like, okay, creepy-looking cover, a word that seems pretty close to magic. Let's Google it and see what this is. And so while I have not read this, you just need to Google it once and read a couple descriptions on any site

to see that it is about an illusionist, a trickster, crucially. And so I wondered if that was a clue. about, you know, we've chatted a couple times in recent pods about whether someone else is out there, something else could be afoot, some sort of like guiding, a puppet master guiding hand. And whether this was a wink in that direction, I think a couple other things happened in this episode that could be further fodder for such a theory. Or if it's a little winked to us to say that's not what's happening here, but we know that you're thinking in and wondering it and talking about it. Because that's one of the things that I think the show does so well, like is acknowledge what's

on the audience's mind, even if it doesn't pan out. So what do you think when you see something like this? A book about a trickster and a manipulator. Does that make you think that's happening or that it's not? On an island. On an island. Yes. It makes me think that they want us to be thinking about it.

Something I love about the books, you know, there are books and loss that matter and there are books and loss that don't. You know what I mean? Like you can decide whether or not watershed down matters or et cetera. But like something I asked, one of the, directors on Lost once was like, would you guys put books on the shelves just to like see if you could move books? And he was like, absolutely we did. I was like, did you put friends books on the shelves? He's like, absolutely we did. So like, I'm not saying that's what's happening here.

This just feels like a very intentional fun, lost Ian sort of thing. But I just want to let people know that like who weren't around for the lost theorizing days that like books like At Swim Two Birds, something like that, like it would sell out. Like they would sell out because people would go buy them and read them so they could like scour it for clues for loss. That's how maniacal we were for. Everything that rises must converge bump is still going strong. Thanks, Jacob. Okay. So Shauna brings in some, speaking of jerky, some, some really sorry-looking strips of bear meat. She says that someone's been stealing some bear meat, right? By the way, when this, okay, we know that they're eating starling soup.

They've been turning the birds into soup. Does Travis have a little beak on his spoon when he is eating soup at the beginning of the episode? I couldn't tell if it was a beak, but it was definitely a bone of some sort. And I guess that's what they're doing. They're just putting the whole thing in there, right? Because they're so small. That's not how I would do it, but it looks very beaky to me. I was just like, that's not great.

I thought the starling, maybe bird enthusiasts were able to immediately identify this. I'm not an expert, but I'm sure other people, knew they were Starlings already, but to hear them called, and maybe think of Ozark and Jonah, right, and talking about like Starling, like this, it's, I mean, you're the, you're the Ozark podcaster here on this, on this here

Riverside, but this like invasion, right? And that felt notable, too. I think every single detail we get about any kind of like animal or organic presence feels deliberate and intentional. So I wonder if the Starling was chosen

specifically because of that, that aspect of how they behave and how they can permeate and then take over a place. Just like ideas can, right? Or tunnel people. Stolen bear meat. Yes. Mysterious shit in the pea bucket. Yep. Missing lantern. Missing lantern. Yes. Is this all the work of shadow tie or was it hobby? all along, what do you think about everything?

So when we talked about the shit bucket, I asked, you know, if someone took a shit two feet from your head in a small room, would you not wake up, would you not know? And I would like to say that if it ends up, I stand by the question, I stand by the prompt, if on top of that, it turns out that it was hobby who came back, entered the premises, took a dump, and then exited again, and nobody knew,

it might be too much even for yellow jackets to pull off. So sleepwalking tie remains a contender. But I am officially prepared, Joanna, right here with you now, to double down on a theory that I floated and say that I really think there's a chance. And the book club with Ben is heightening my sense of this, that there's a manipulation afoot, that somebody is doing these things to them. At least one. Yeah.

Like, because I don't think Havi is surviving out there. Well, I don't think Havie is out there alone. So there's at least one person, if not several peoples. And where are they? Probably underground. We'll talk about that. I just want to, so Mari here's dripping. Akila, who is just trying to prep for the SATs.

like letter prep okay and well I kind of I this the the difference between the this is this is something I talked about and lost a lot which is like our like in the first season this idea of like do we camp on the beach or do we camp in the caves and the idea was like one is we're waiting to be rescued and the other is we're settling down and we're making a life here so the fact that they've moved into the cabin this season feels very like we're in the caves we're settled here we're hungered down for the winter probably no one's coming in the winter until spring so like right now we are

we live here but Akila studying for the SATs is like one of those moments of like I am still thinking about my future and getting out and stuff like that but yeah she she finds a little mouse and she protects it

no mouse soup tonight I found this important and charming and winning and I thought this was wonderful and now I had an incredibly concerned for both the mouse and Akila because everyone else is going to want to eat that mouse and so what happens when they find out that

she has provided it with the comforting shelter of a warm pocket. This is two weeks in a row by the way that we've had like a little Akila moment and I am always worried when people and it might just be in general they're trying to like build up Mari and Akila and Mari's building up is just like her being

absolutely the worst all of the time and you know Akila had again Kila again was talking about a going home sort of thing last when talking about, you know, her nephew, et cetera. So, all right, let's, let's go to tie. We're going to do present day tie. It's pretty quick what happens here. She gets the yellow jacket's file from Jessica's. Doesn't, doesn't really seem to care right now whether or not Jessica's dead on the side of the road from a poison cigarette or not, but gets

the file from Jessica's house. Abandoned, then in a fugue state, takes her assistant's We should say she got the keys from her assistant. So her assistant's car drives it. Shadow Tide drives until it runs out of gas, abandons it on the side of the road. Horrible. Her employee's car. Who does this?

You think she dropped her a pin, at least? Like, this is where I left your vehicle. Did she close the doors? I don't even know. Finds a friendly Democratic truck driver. Yeah, with a little nudie pen. And the little nudie pen and then rolls up to Van's Video Store in Oberlin, Ohio, which is what that's the location of the file called While You're streaming. Amazing stuff. I have a lot to say about Vans staff picks, but anything else you want to say about... Oh, yeah. I want to hear all of your thoughts about the in-store marquee there. I thought that the sequence in Jessica's apartment was the most like episode two like scene in this episode, which is to say it was probably my least.

least favorite part of the episode. It's just, and you see it in such in close proximity to the other parts of this episode that are humming, I think, at a more like familiar and successful yellowjackets frequency. That said, there were a lot of interesting freeze frame moments and things to look at and things to track. Some of it is just on a human level. Like you see a wall full of family photos for Jessica, a person who was inflicting a lot of stress and harm on characters we grew very fond of quickly, but you're like, right, this was a person who had like a life. and doesn't anymore because of these characters. Little moments like that, I think, that remind us of what has happened are important.

The folder that Ty finds there, you know, she's on the computer, she takes the folder, we see the folder later. But the stack of mail was interesting. You know, we zoom in on an address. Those moments always feel very... Love a Zoom. Intentional. Love a Zoom address moment.

And I guess the only other thing I'll say is that, you know, we talked a lot last week about like the visual and auditory clues when something is happening that we maybe shouldn't trust or that we should wonder about. Obviously that's always present with these tie scenes. But with the pen actually, that happened? Like the sound and the movement change.

And I couldn't quite tell is that because of the, you know, obviously in a novelty pen fashion, like the parallel of, hey, here are two versions of you. Or if something else was going on there, it just stood out that there was a little but a little like, who kind of whooshy wobble

treatment on that moment. Some of the Ty and Jessica's apartment stuff made me feel like they were doing their best to try to efficiently let us know where we were. We're in Jessica's apartment

like and look at the fire. You know, there was just some sort of like we don't have a way to elegantly do this so we're just going to do it with like shoppy camera motions or whatever. What did you think of Ty walking directly into the camera

and looking at us? to that moment in that scene. Unsettling. Unnerving. Hated it. Okay. The Marquis behind man. Yeah.

Take me through it. Just a cornucopia of treats and delights for us. Yes. But not the biggest cornucopia of pop culture treats and delight tree at this episode. Not the freeze frame I spent 40 minutes on. No.

Okay. Upper left corner, bound. Famous, Sapphic. you know, murder mystery film of the 90s seminal lesbian film Into the Wild

that is Chris McCannless based on the John Crackaro book of the same name about a young man who goes into the wild and dies there,

spoilers for a very old book and a less old movie. It was Mean Girls Into the Wild like they were right next to each other sort of forming a sentence so that's, you know, that's what we're watching, me and girls into the wild, right?

Footloose right next to Varsity Blues. Has to be a coach Ben joke as far as I'm concerned. If you're never seen varsity blues, this is an incredible James Vanderbeek film from the 90s and MTV production. But one, Mr. Paul Walker spends a lot of that film on crutches. And footloose, you know, Coach Ben certainly has won. Footloose. What do you think?

You don't think this means they're going to find a lot of whipped cream and just start doing whipped cream bikinis? Oh, Ellie Lauder and Icon. Also, what it could mean, the other side of, the flip side of, but if it's not a coach bed joke, I think it is, but if it's not, footloose, have you never seen footloose, is about a town run by, you know, a strong Christian leadership in the guise of Jonathan Lithgow. go where they are not allowed to dance because the church says so. So like this idea of spiritual leadership kind of gone, gone awry or overbearingly. Okay.

Two more to go. I have an intriguing answer possibly for one and then the other one I have big question marks. Train spotting. There is a dead baby in train spotting. That is a very, one of the most upsetting things I saw as a youth in the 90s was the dead baby. sequence from trade spotting. Should we be worried about

Shawna's baby because train spotting is here? Or is Ewe and McGregor going to be in season three of Yellow Jackets? I honestly, I don't know if we would survive that. That would be oh my God. Would he be at Jeff and Kevin's

gym? What would his role be? One of the tunnel people. The others. Yeah. And then Wayne's World. I have no idea what Wayne's World is doing here, honestly. At first I was like Canadian Wilderness, then I was like, oh, no, no, no.

Mike Myers is Canadian, but Wayne's World does not. Wayne's World takes place in Milwaukee. Anyway, all right. So that's the marquee. If you have any other analysis you want to offer of the marquee and while you're streaming, last thing I'll say about Van, Lauren Ambrose enters the scene here,

is, first of all, can't hardly wait, is maybe one of my favorite 90s movies of all. time. Big Lauren Ambrose fan. Secondly, obviously 16-under as well, but secondly, what she says, she takes her a minute to recognize Ty, which means these women haven't seen each other in a good long while. I was going to ask you how long you think it's been. Like, have they not, did they part ways when they returned and that was it? That's what it feels like. And why is she like, you know, in the Jessica Flash apartment thing, me here, some of you like to live off the grid,

Right. So if Van is one of the yellow jackets who's living off the grid, like what drove her there, you know? Right. And also Ty as a character. And we know this from that conversation with Shawna about like the college years and what, oh, here were all the things I wanted to do that I didn't do. Shawna. Here were all the things I wanted to do from Ty. And then Shauna sank and you did them. Like that Ty was the character who who got back and said, I'm resuming my life. I am moving as far away from I can as I can from the things that we did out there. How long do you think it's been? Do you think they haven't seen each other? I think it's maybe been the whole time. I think that's a sad thing to contemplate. And obviously we have a lot more to learn about the ensuing year that they have in the wilderness still. But it makes sense to me from what we know about them now,

that the person who would remind most, would remind high most of the things that she wanted to forget would be Van, the person that she had this deep and incredibly intense, not only romantic and emotional bond with, but experience with. Routing for those two still. Let's talk about those two in the past. I hope the advanced first question is, do you have any pets and are they okay?

And we get a Steve update. Really pulling for that. Do you think that'll happen? Who's watching all the pets? Like, who's watching Missy's bird? Okay. Oh, man. Great question.

Misty has a plan for Caligula. Misty wouldn't have left Caligula without a plan, but we haven't seen Steve in a minute. Yeah. Meanwhile, Ty who left a car on the side of the road, just a ban on the side of the road, would definitely not have a lot. a plan for the dog. All right. In 1996, Van and Tyre have been going on these maybe nightly walks

to find various symbols carved in various trees. And Van, who might just actually be a self-insert for Mallory, has made a map put on top of Coach Ben and Nat's map, pins, dropped pins for all the places they've been, and discovered a massive version of the symbol outlined in all. all the dots on the map. Delighted. I'm thrilled. And then what happens, Mallory? Is this all you? Then what happens? Oh, boy.

Well, do we want to go right to Javi now? We have this because of the shape of the map, the shape of the symbol, which is something that Tide dismisses as these are just random points and you can make any shape out of them, which is not wrong. And that was another thing in the episode. Ben actually voices like the things you're describing are coincidence

reminded me of the point you raised. Yeah. In all of, right, there's a logical explanation for everything, which is something that you've mentioned before that had to be the case, right, in season one of loss, that there had to be an explanation for everything outside of the supernatural. It was really cool to hear the characters talk about that idea, too, because it's such a fervent discussion point in the fandom.

And so when Van and Ty are having this again, kind of, even though it's very present with Nat and Lottie, for Van and Ty, this man of science, man of, man of faith, Jack, John lost kind of conversation. And Van basically just says, like, if I'm right, there will be another tree with a symbol here, down in like the hook at the bottom of the symbol. Will you come with me? They don't find, and Ty does, which is important, even though she is very skeptical.

They do not find the tree, Joe. But is that Javi's music? And Ty is the one, actually, who hears, senses, goes to look. And Javi flees, which is interesting, right? His instinct is to run, to run, and to not be discovered and not be found and not be brought back. So there's plenty of theory fodder there. And, you know, when they bring him back to the cabin, there's a lot to parse, like, what we see passing between Travis and Nat on their faces. I wrote Nat.

I wrote Nat is so funny. in my nose. Yeah, just, I wonder if she will say, I'm sorry that I lied, I did this because I really believe it was for your own good, or if she will say, I found a bloody pant leg. It happened. I don't know what to tell you, man.

Sorry. Lottie's face was incredibly interesting there. She seemed not at all to be in the Mari position of, wow, look how amazing my third eye is here. She seemed disturbed by what was unfolding, and there was like a note of real fear there. Javi returning, and we'll talk about the Lottie Nat's stuff, but right on the heels of this blood sacrifice

that Lottie made cutting her hand open by the stump. Well, the girls all had this discussion about what happened with the birds falling after the blood from Shauna, fell on the symbol on the blanket. So for team faith, you have a lot of data points adding up, right, about the sequencing here. So far, it's every spill of blood or sexual act. which goes back to my

cult of the week, Dionysus, God of Shadow, God of Sex, God of Madness, sort of thing. Right, right. Yeah. And so that question of like, because Van keeps expressing as high across this episode

that there's something inside of you that is deeply connected to this place, right? You keep finding these trees with a symbol. And so while they don't find that final tree, they find Javi, which is, first of all, we think, connected to these trees because of our hatch tunnel system

that is definitely there. But even if that's not the case. They are still drawn to this place where this massive seismic discovery unfold. So is that because something is guiding tie there? Is that because of Lottie cutting her hand open by the hollowed stump? Is it because, as Coach Ben would say, it's coincidence and he was out there and wandering and you happened to be out there and wandering and came across each other too? Is it the go back to book club with Ben? Is it a guiding hand? Is it the guiding hand of the darkness of the wilderness? Is it the guiding hand of a trickster of a manipulator? Is there to keep the lost

comps going? Is there like a Jacob figure in the show? Are there the others? Is there even like a Widmore figure, right? Like there could any number of variations that there could be. Jacob would be like an old god and Widmore being a rich bastard to let people know who haven't seen Lost. Yeah, there's all sorts of like big powerful things could be at play. I just have such a hard time like with lost the island, like they've mapped so far around the cabin that I have such a hard time thinking it could be anything other than tunnels, tunnel mole people sort of thing. Because on Lost it was like the others were basically just on the other side of the island. You know what I mean?

You had to like just keep walking and you would have seen some barracks or whatever. So I, the tunnel hatched, and we should say the tree that the tree that they find in that spot has more melted snow. Yeah. So our theory is that there's like, similar to you know, Count Rugen and the Princess Bride, there's like a knot on the tree that you can press, you can get, you can access

a tunnel. Tunnels running underneath these trees. Again, for team man of science, team logical explanation, mining tunnels exist. They can look any number of ways,

but when I just Googled image source mining tunnels, I found plenty that looked like the tunnels that we've seen in Lottie's visions, right? So is that like, are we going to see tunnels that look identical to the ones that Lottie was sort of wandering through in her visions?

We're going to get to that hatch in a second. Somebody found them at some point and marked nearby trees so that people get into. Yeah, find them in after them. Get in here. It's completely plausible. Absolutely. All right. Lottie versus Natt. Natt.

signs me in a face. All right, let's start in the present day. And here's my, here's my, HIPAA, I will say, feedback for, I don't want, I never mind, I don't want to invoke HIPAA. That's what weird a conspiracy theorist do. Okay. I'll just say, if you're someone's therapist and they are on, let's say, antipsychotics or wherever it is that Lottie's on, and they have been seeing you regularly for decades, every six weeks or whatever, when you go on sabbatical, you inform them. You don't just show up, okay, and then follow up

notes for the new therapist who I do not trust by the way that she was pushing Lottie on these like visions. What do these visions mean to you? Engage with that, all that sort of stuff like that. So I'm a deep believer in therapy. I'm very pro therapy.

I love therapy. I don't trust this therapist. How do you feel? Did you get any weird vibes off of this woman? I am very rarely like, I feel 100% sure that thing X will be true. But I would say I felt 99.9% sure that Lottie's primary doctor was eliminated, taken out of the picture by this person or whomever this person is working for,

and that this is again part of this larger puppeteer act or manipulation, and that somebody is trying to corrupt Lottie's life and lead Lottie to do the things that she does not want to do. I mean, everything you just said, the fact that there was no communication, the fact that this person is sitting there saying, like, well, let me ask. Instead of doing the thing that you know has been for the betterment of your health and wellness, what if you did this instead? Just the alarm bells were blaring as brightly as the rivulets of the. blood pouring out of Lottie's hands in both the past and the present. Lottie, she says nothing, what are these? This just means nothing because they're not real.

And so this idea that like the Lottie, what I love about Courtney Eaton's performance as young Lottie is like she's leaving a lot of things open for us in terms of how much she actually believes in her own hype and her own visions and stuff like that. She's not a zealot of her own. like there's constantly doubt on her face as to like is this actually happening like marie is the zealot vans the zealot you know and it's not really Lottie Lottie wants to help and and you know she's getting feedback from the universe that she has some sort of like spark of a vision um but something has happened you know we saw her undergo severe treatment post uh i keep want to say post island post uh post

post-wilderness and they got back. And as decided, they are not real. These visions are not real. They're not helping me. And, like, bad things happen. And it's true. I mean, like, Travis is dead after a vision. You know what I mean?

Right. And the way that she described the past of saying the last time, it became something different, can't happen again. Like, this gets back to the point you've been making of like, okay, maybe the really awful thing isn't just the stuff that we already have glimpsed or no is coming. something even beyond that. And, you know, we got a little bit of that from Shawna, too.

And this, like, frankly irresponsible and shocking reveal to Cali. But then she's the thing she can't bring herself to voice. She literally tells her kid that she killed a guy. But can't. There's something else she did. She can't. Can't voice what they did on, that was also about to say on the island, out in the wilderness.

And so, like, is this what Lottie is referring to here? To your point that maybe it wasn't something she believed or bought or understood in full, but that the reverence around her led to this antler queen existence and then she was almost like used in the society or deployed or maybe then she embraced it at a certain point.

I think that's the other thing we keep returning to is that with these characters, it doesn't feel like it's going to necessarily be a neat and tidy either or, that they're going to, you know, oscillate and move between different states of science, faith, belief, acceptance, fear, active, passive, etc., right? And so I think, like, we don't know ultimately what the answer is,

but the look on Lottie's face when that queen card popped up with the eyes scratched out, and she blinks it out of existence. Do we understand that it's not real? But that connects back again, much like the thing that she said to this fake, probably murderous therapist plant, you know, calls back to what happened in the... the cabin what happened in the wilderness and her role in it, whether it was one that she actively saw it or not.

There's a culpability that she's carrying. Absolutely. There's this very popular theory that the way that the playing cards were deployed, so we've already, we've gotten a couple references to how they're using the playing cards in the cabin to assign chores. Missy talks about drawing a four

and then when they're deciding who's going to get the gun out in the wilderness, Missy's like, we could draw cards for who gets the gun. So they're using drawing cards for these big, big decisions. We heard them say there are no queens in the deck of those cards. Maybe they'll find the queen somewhere. But I don't think it's unreasonable to wonder if drawing the eyeless queen of hearts meant

you were next on the menu and like, a la pit girl will give you a running start. But, you know, for the betterment of the group, similar to what a lot of I was talking about last week with the bees, right? for the survival of the crew, just like, you know, you got to empty the shit bucket. You got to do this chore. You got to do this chore.

You got to offer up yourself to be eaten. It's one of the chores for, you know, our survival. I think that seems very probable. Let's talk about blood. The blood that she gives at the stump of the tree here, right? We got, yeah, why not?

We were going to talk about Jackie Jerky. We had so many emails from, like, French speakers. Thank you so much. Bless all of you. sort of really parsing this sentence, Il Vu de Saint, which is, he wants blood or it wants blood,

depending on your interpretation. So Amy wrote, I believe based on a scene from Doom Coming Up in Season 1, when the girls have chased down and caught Travis, who Lottie refers to as the stag, Lottie then says to Shauna,

it's okay, it wants us to while she has the knife to Travis's throat. Similar to when Shana declares, she wants us to before everyone digs in for a Jackie nail snacky. Sophia writes in,

it could be any other, like, because it's masculine singular, that's why we're like, it's either he or it, it's masculine singular. So if he writes, it could mean any other noun that's gendered as male in French.

Some examples in the context of the show, Woods, uh, spirit, evil, darkness. I find it interesting that when translating in that seance scene in season one,

they sort of settled on it. To me, it signals the writer's intentions because otherwise I don't see any indicators in what's being spoken that it is the most likely translation. That's really interesting. Yeah. Last and not least from Sarah, in the attic seance scene, when Lottie has a breakdown, at one point she turns to Shana, looks at her stomach and says, it is already inside you. This is before any of the rest of them know that Shana is pregnant. Lott is clearly sensing the presence of it being there. It wants blood.

We've seen this idea of like giving blood. So here's here are the giving blood moments, right? It's the bloody bare heart, right? It's the Lottie cutting her hand and Javi appears in this episode. It's Lottie cutting her hand and bleeding blood on the stump in also in the episode in present day and it's biscuit of course on the you know on the altar that shana's nose bleed shana's no bleed on the blanket even the seance lottie cuts herself right she's gushing blood out of her head after slamming her face against the glass so i think and

this idea of like when she when she cuts her hand this time and she says please can this be enough right can this just be enough please yeah So can I just give these drops of blood and that's all you need rather than an entire girl, right? Because like there's the meat part of killing a girl, but there's also, sorry, but there's also pit girl gets drained. I don't, I've never butchered a person, but that being exsanguinated might be part of the butchering process. Um, probably is. But it also means they have a whole like body full of blood to. give up to the it to placate the it if it wants blood.

This is a fun podcast, Melor. You having a good time? Very upsetting. Very upsetting. But Lottie was very upset. Can this be enough? Can this just be enough? Please.

Yeah. Choked out through terror. Absolute terror of having lived through a time where just a cut of the hand was not enough. clearly. And I will remind you that your beloved Walter is heading into her. I don't. Stop. Stop. Stop. Stop. I am concerned. I told, I texted Mal that I would rather Steve Dian than Walter and then she, like, vindictively responded, which is how she should have because that's who Mallory is. But this is a deeply, deeply dismaying text to receive.

Okay. I just really care a lot about Walter. We'll get to that. We're going to say, saving the best for last. All right. Miranda writes it about Lottie's wardrobe because we get the conversation around the lavender clothing when Nat and Lisa are in the car. We also, when Nat walks in and Lottie is sort of changing into her like civvies almost to go to therapy, like what are you wearing, right? But Miranda writes in the name Heliotrope, the color that they are, that they hammer home, it's not purple, it's heliotrope. The name heliotrope can be loosely, translated to turn to the sun. This is notable first

and that is the opposite of let the darkness set us free. Lottie is trying to separate herself from the darkness she experienced in the wilderness even as her followers wear the triangle symbol around their necks. Lottie herself does not wear the symbol or heliotrope color clothing. Instead, primarily clothing herself

in yellowy oranges. This not only makes her visually stand out as yellow in the complementary color to purple, it also makes her the glowing sun that all her heliotroplad followers turn towards, and I will just, yes, Anne Miranda's email and say, in the final scene when Lottie is heading to the stump, she is wearing like rusty blood red is what she is clothed in.

That can't be good. Maybe she's just, you know, decided to become a Texas Longhorns fan, late in life, some burnt orange. Huck them? No. No? This is, I think, a... Longhorn?

Angel queen? Sorry, go ahead. Amazing. Especially in this episode, that's a really, I think, important and relevant observation because so much of, you know, since we're talking about Lottie and Nat in the past together, they're also obviously linked in the present. Even though Nat is off with Lisa throughout the bulk of the episode, they're talking about Lottie constantly. And it's this idea of centering and control, right? like when Nat says to Lisa something like, don't you think it's weird to even have a rule

that you get to leave whenever you want for as many days as you want, just an incredible Nat moment. Like, this is why Nat is the best. Like, that is a great actor who spots that and says that and knows that she's right when she does.

And I think that like you in particular, I think we're trying and I think you in particular have done a great job of looking for these moments where we feel really like drawn toward Lottie and empathetic toward her. And we see these struggles. But also we see things like this. And that idea of placing yourself as the sun in the center of a group of people who then are turning toward you for their light and need you for their happiness and hope and well-being. And where are they without that?

And you change and reposition the orbit of their lives so that they are utterly dependent on your role in it. Like then we're right back in cult camp, right? We have many characters, the walls are misty, cheap among them, just referring to the cult throughout this whole episode and the purple people and the amazing conversation with the waitress about the cult, which I just get that way to talk about. So there are plenty of moments with Ladi where we're like, yeah, this is not a normal, healthy thing.

And even if you think you're helping people, and maybe you are, we don't want to be dismissive with that. I think we have a really interesting Lisa episode on that front. It's not a normal thing to say, don't go see your family. It just isn't. So let's talk about that, right? So Nat takes a little road trip with Lisa, right? And when they meet Lisa's mom, or is she?

But right, when they meet Lisa's mom, who is like one of the more protective, like empathetic characters in the woods and now, defends Lisa and also the cult to a certain extent. Like if it's working for her, why not let it work for her to her mom, which is super interesting. Then she steals the fish, which I am. supportive, like hashtag free 14th gilly.

Like that's great. But why does she put it... Grab a cup. Grab the bowl. Take the whole. She's already been like kicked out of the house essentially. Take the whole bowl. Putting in your mouth was a truly unhinged thing to do.

It was great. Julia Lewis is a absolute queen. Then they go to a bar and talk about, you know, ending lives and stuff like that. And Nat says this thing that is right out of the teal swan. We talked about teal swan. cult leader a couple episodes ago, read out of her playbook,

which is if you want to kill yourself, kill yourself. Irresponsible language, I think. But I think that fish is going to survive tonight and the rest, worry about it tomorrow. And Nat pushes some alcohol away. So what do you want to say, what more do you want to say about this Lisa Nat journey that we get in this episode?

I love this. And I think that this is one of the reasons that Nat is on a show of layered, nuanced, complicated, fraught characters, often the one we're most interested in spending time with because she is actively inside of this episode, not just this season, plotting to bring Lottie down, period unequivocally, right? Tracking where she is, waiting in the doorway, watching her at the cabinet, I need those keys.

Well, she's still holding them at the end and she's looking back waiting to plot her move. what do we think is in the cabinet? We can talk about that. But it's not mutually exclusive from genuinely warming to Lisa and forming a real and meaningful bond with a character who mere episodes ago, she's stabbed with a fork. And we get a version of it with Nat and Lottie, who are positioned as not only opposed to each other,

often so far throughout this season, right? and are the rival sides in this daily hunt mission in the 96 wilderness timeline, but who represent these different camps currently in, and I think we have a pretty neat actually divide of the bath in those camps now, but there are two of the figureheads, right, for the divide. And yet, Nat is the one who brings Lottie into the tub. I don't mean to be jumping between timelines, but I think these are related things, right?

because like she's got that warmth and desire to nurture and guide. And it's such a tender, beautiful moment. Like, I loved it. It reminded me of like something I like to say about covering Succession, which is like, the people in Succession are so mean to each other all the time so that when they extend tenderness, like, it just means more. So the fact that like that Nat has been at Loggerheads with Lottie this whole season, that there's this whole like Travis question between them, like all this sort of stuff like that

and to just extend that tenderness and to remind us and remind themselves that they are teammates, they're good friends. Yeah. That was amazing. I loved it too. One thing I want to shout out in the car conversation between Lisa and that, on the whole, like, how schemy is Lottie, this idea of we wear the purple clothing because it creates like sort of income equality amongst all of us. But of course, Lottie, has a gold Rolex on. Like, you know, this idea of like, oh, we're all here and we're all equals. But, you know, one of us has a big house and a locked cabinet and a gold Rolex.

Maybe she, uh, maybe she pinched it though. You know, we learned elsewhere than she's sticky fingers out. Yeah. Lisa, Lisa has Wilderness baby theory check in with you, Mallory. Where are you with this now that we've met her mom? More convinced than ever. Okay. I think.

Okay. Yeah. And in, in. Part actually, some of it is that we go into Lisa's home. But some of it was actually a moment we got with Jeff and Shawna that we can either hit here or save. But when our favorite setting in the entire Yellow Jackets universe, the Sedeke Kitchen. Boy, what those cucumbers have heard. the horror Jeff feels

when he learns that Shauna told Callie about Adam about the blackmail and he says it's like we only get one shot

at this thing like we only have one kid as a parent it's part of our job we have to protect her we have to shield her etc etc

the camera cuts to Shawna when he says we only get one shot at this thing like we only have have one kid and the look on Shauna's face. It just seemed very, and we've talked about this a lot.

We talked about this in our preview pot, etc. It just seems, I think, very clear that she never told him about the pregnancy, the baby, whatever happened after. And he does not know. And that that was not in those journals he read. And I wonder if that's the thing that when he finds out will finally break them. We'll actually be the thing that they can't, yeah, that they can't find their way through. And that seems much more probable if that if that child is alive and out there.

I agree. If Jeff finds out that he has a child somewhere that's, you know, living and wearing purple, that he would be, that that would be a breaking point. I'm still, I'm out on Lisa's Wilderness Baby. There's just something about like, I don't see a reason for her to, like, Lottie isn't treating her the way that Lottie should treat her if Lottie knows that she's the wilderness baby. And if Lottie doesn't know, then that is too much of a coincidence for me to hang with that. The subreddit is calling her a heliotro pairing, and I really love that.

I love it. Okay. This is, I love all of our emails. This is quite a long one. I try to cut it down, but I just think it's so interesting, and I'm just, please forgive me. I'm going to read the whole thing. All right. So this is from Nicole, and it is about Lottie and her tactics as a cult leader, right? Or a wellness guru, if you prefer. Nicole writes, last week, Lottie, quote unquote, gently encourages Nat to participate in the group sharing activity. When Nat defies her, Lottie calls Lisa to express how Natalie attacking her makes her feel. Lottie tells her to, quote, honor her anger. And if she wants to hurt Natalie back, do it.

And Lottie just happens to have the fork Nat stab Lisa with on hand. Frequently in cults, a method of control is the threat of violence, not necessarily. necessarily from the leader themselves, but from the members of the cult to each other. The cult leader will foster and encourage this environment as good for the group and that the violence is a healthy expression of emotion when really it is a way to keep their own hands cleaner. Here, Lottie frames it as Lisa healthfully expressing her anger. If Lisa chose to harm Nat, it wouldn't have been Lottie holding the fork, would it?

Another method of control in cults is lack of privacy, especially emotional privacy. A perfect and popular example is the taped confessions Jim Jones had of his devotees. He would use these tapes against his followers occasionally for individually tailored punishments. For example, if a woman confessed she was terrified of snakes, when her behavior, quote, unquote, needed correcting, they forced her down to allow a snake to crawl all over her body. We don't know how often Lottie's group confession, emotional sharing happens, but we can see that Lottie was able to weaponize Lisa's history of quote-unquote letting people walk all over her and reframe it as honoring her emotions to exert the threat of violence to Natalie via another.

The scary thing for Nat is that Lottie already knows the worst thing Natalie has ever done or had to endure. This scene really recontextualizes Lisa's fear of mistaking Lottie's drink in episode two, and I think suddenly sets a framework of the communal violence in both the past and present timelines yet to come. I really loved this email. I am having a really creepy time learning about how Colts operate. I thought this is really fascinating. And to that idea of like tapes or hoarding information about your followers, like we saw a locked cabinet in her office, like that would be a very...

So is that your theory for what's... in there. Yeah. Info on her followers. I'm trying to think of what else it could be that would have an impact. Something about Travis, I guess, would be the other. For Nat in particular to discover and find. Maybe the notepad where she practiced writing

tell Nat she was right a lot of different times. Could it be that? To perfect his handwriting. I found this email so interesting because the way that I am reading Lottie right now, I don't see her as devious. But it doesn't mean she's not doing this. Do you know what I mean? Like there are ways in which you can, something about Lottie in the past is the way

in which she's sort of leading from behind. She's never insisting she's right. She's never doing this. That or the other thing. It's always the Marys or the Vans or the Mistys. You know, any Misty is just drafting power, right? And Mari and Van seem to be true believers. And I read that as,

innocence on Lottie's behalf. Like she didn't ask for this. She's not trying to control them. But maybe if enough people tell you that you have this power, you know, it changes you. So. Yeah. Fascinating. All right.

96 Nat versus Lottie, Man of Science, Man of Faith, Hunt. What do you want to say about this? Oh, my goodness. I mean, we've talked about some of this already. I liked with the group dynamic in the cabin, another like survivor. comp of who's not helping around camp, like the while you guys sit on your asses line from, you know, the just indignation that she would have,

that it was her fault that they weren't eating when she's been trying so hard every day. But that always puts you on like an apparelous spot and on some sort of watch list. So, you know, yet another tough moment for pick girl Mari there. So we have, I think, three camps. We've got team skeptic, team supernatural, team silent. Here's the math that I have from this initial discussion about who's able to bring food and provide and the lot of it all, etc.

We even get like van saying what about the bear calling back to something we already as characters or thinking about with like Jackie's like the brain dead bear and you just divide that we've been tracking across the seasons. Team skeptic in this scene. Matt, Ty, Ben, Shana. Team Supernatural. Mari, Akila, Misty, Van. You'll note, I do not have Lottie there because team is silent, not participating in this conversation. Lottie, who looks incredibly uncomfortable. And Travis, they're observing.

They're thinking. Things are running through their faces. I did think it was notable that Travis is, and not surprising, but still, you know, is one of the things we're monitoring. He's helping Nat. get bundled up and ready to go out. Very tenderly sort of tucking her hair away. So sweet.

Tucking her still very blonde hair. I reject. We got an email about this. I reject this. On wig watch front, I will say this. Her bangs are grown out on the wig. And she has like two inches of roots on her wig now. Does that seem right?

Yeah. I mean, like, hair grows at different speeds, and I also don't know how fast hair grows when you're malnourish. That seems about a right for a couple months to me. What if you've eaten a couple pounds of human flesh? Do you think that that would speed, speed subsequent hair growth? Maybe if she had, like, had some marrow that would have held some collagen in there. I know, sorry. They sucked the finger bones dry.

Okay. I will say on my word. wigwash front. Yeah. It's actually Lottie's Lottie still has bangs. I don't know what she's cutting those bangs with. Magic.

That's actually, Lottie's bangs still being, still banging this many months later is the best argument for her witchery as far as I can tell. Interesting. Well, they must have razors of some sort, right? Like Travis is clean-shaven.

Oh, that's fair. I mean, other members, as we've discussed, have decided not to use razors if they do have them, which we think is great and love and support. But maybe there's a blade somewhere that Lottie's using. Right, and they have all their luggage. I don't know. I have some general questions about this.

Like, is the cabin? First of all, the tub, the introduction of the tub. I don't mean to go on a long tangent here, but like, I was like, where has this been? Have they been taking baths regularly? And the cabin feels like it's getting episode by episode bigger. I'm like, are we like in the, Weasley tent at the Quiddish Royal Cup here.

Like, undetectable extension charm? What is going on? I like it because it gives us little nooks and crannies to play in. Oh, I know. Yeah, we got a whole like pantry where the mouse is chilling. Well, we've been there before. But the candles. This is my question. Crystal's holding a lit candle. At one point when they're standing outside in like broad daylight, she's holding a lit candle. And I'm like, how many candles do we have? Should we be conserving our candles? I would be. I would be conserving my candles if I were them

and not holding a lit one out in the middle of the day. Crystal. Mari is just like... Exceptional stuff to Mari in this episode. Lottie doesn't need a gun. And Lottie's like, says, who? What are you talking about? Unbelievable.

Nat finds the frozen moose as we talked about before. We did get an email about the significance of white animals for First Nations peoples and how. two things. One, you should not hunt them. And two, that they are a good, meant to be a good omen. So, um, the idea of like seeing the white moose last week and then Javier returns this week. I mean, that's a bad omen for Nat, to be honest. But like, it's a good omen overall. I mean, she wants Jave to be alive. But what does it mean when you lose that moose down a frozen lake? Because where, where is the night king with some heavy chains when you need him, right? To haul the moose

back up. Yeah. Waiting for the moose eye to open and for it not to be like dark and frosty, but bright blue. Alas. Alas. Different fictional universe. Also, just like their whole, I mean, I just have, I just want to talk to them about leverage. The whole plan was a bad one as far as I'm concerned.

Not that I myself could get a frozen moose out, but I would have done it differently than that. Okay. And then Lottie's vision quest to them all. where we get some Laura Lee action and a literal hatch. A literal hatch.

I mean, if... I just couldn't believe this. And of course, we've already discussed how the beachcraft is so losty to begin with, you know, everything with John and Boone

that is centered on the plane and eventually leads to the hatch. This was as mapped on to lost as it possibly could have been to the point where if we had, when Lottie opens the plane, this is, of course, the plane that we know exploded. Larley was inside.

We see Leonard, the bear. We know Larley's necklace the cross. When she opens the hat, so the necklace is on top of, so there's that mix that we've been tracking again of like, not just magic or the supernatural, but this religiosity, entwined with it. If the camera had cut and it hadn't been Lottie climbing down the steps,

but us looking up in Jack Shepard and John Locke, I would not have been surprised. This was just a remarkable, remarkable. And I liked what you said a couple of weeks ago when I was like the only thing, literally the only thing that makes me think this won't happen because I think I've been so sure that it would, the hatch and various Dharma station comps.

It's just that it would be so losty. So losty. Yeah, would that give them any pause? And I liked your response to that about how much of a touchstone and loss clearly is for this text. So why not lean in? And I thought that this was,

this was leaning in quite, quite fully. And like, where does the hatch in the trip down the hatch take us? Not to a blender full of vegetables and fruit that we're going to turn into a smoothie, not to Cass Elliott, not to Desmond on his bike, but into a food court. I mean, what could port you back into,

one of the things we loved about season one is the way that those social norms and the familiar aspects of society melt away and then what fills that space. And so to see Lottie months in to the wilderness thrust back into her mind's rendering of what a moment like that would have been like, to see like Misty with her hair off,

to see Van with no scars, etc., right? And you're like, again, is this an actual memory of a conversation that happened? Is it her mind creating? Definitely not because they wouldn't hang out with Misty, right? Like they wouldn't go eat at the mall with Misty. That's a very upsetting answer. Sorry.

Or Akila, who they didn't even really know before she got on the plane, right? Right. So it's like her mind is taking this familiar idea from the past and populating it with the people who are a part of Lottie's life right now. And Laura Lee being so central is really consequential because what did we see in the very bizarre, still strange all this time later? It's like two weeks ago. Travis death scene it was Laura Lee walking out

Leonard the bear in hand Laura Lee disintegrating in front of Lottie's eyes so for Laura Lee to be the first face she zooms in on

at the table in the food court for Laura Lee to be the one who says you're gonna die if you don't get warm right now

for Laura Lee to be the one who pushes her and casts her back out it was almost like being in like a Dr. Strange

movie like in that the pushing when the camera like a different plane, yeah. Yeah. And so, yeah, this connection to Laura Lee who baptized her

in season one when so much of this began. And their relationship in season one, Lottie and Laura Lee was like, Laura Lee is so serenely confident in her faith. And Lottie is so questioning and so uncertain. And this idea of Laura Lee being, you know, something that the showrunners

talked to us about in the first podcast episode of the season was this idea of Laura Lee and sort of expanding that role a little bit. So like she and Lottie had more time together. before she she dies. I think they were going to take her out even earlier than they did. And that shot of them sitting around the table with Laura Lee at the head looked so last supper to me, like putting Laura Lee in this Christ position, except with like Chinese takeout rice instead of whatever else. But yeah, I mean, I found it fascinating. Again, I really love, like you,

I really love this episode. When Lottie passes out in the snow, arms flung out, knees bent, she looks very similar to the symbol. Does she not? Would you agree? You have a side-by-side here in the dock, and yeah, it's uncanny. I thought she looked at, it reminded me a little bit of John. It was a little bit of a John Snow, spayed it in the snow.

I was going to bring up John Snow because, like, I, My brain is cooked and I will look for the symbol everywhere, right? But then I'm reminding myself of the people who are like, is John Snow's blood forming a dire wolf in the snow? You know what I mean? Yeah. Or a dragon. Or dragon. Never forget it.

What a time on the internet. What a time to be alive, truly. All right. The Sedeckis, any, I mean, I don't know that there's much more I want to say about the Sodeckis except for the fact that like, despite them talking about coming clean, they're all still holding their little secrets and lies from each other. like, oh, we just found the van or, oh, I overheard this at the gym or Callie not talking about this guy, Jay, or whatever.

Right. Yeah, just drinking at the park. Don't worry about with who. They're very siloed off in their own storyline, which I don't know how soon that's going to change. But, like, I want Shauna to be mixed back into the action a bit more than she has been so far. So, yeah, I mean, Missy keeps calling, you know. So if at a certain point, Misty's next voicemail,

is I've tracked this jar of honey in my B&B, and I have found Matt and Lottie at this compound come hang, then even Slingin'Zingers like he's not a bad person okay. He's just a bad criminal, which is an iconic thing that Sean said about Jeff in this episode. Can't keep Sean away from the rest of the gang for long. I'm going to roll now to my favorite part of every part. this season of Yellow Jackets, which is America's Sweethearts, Walter and Misty. This was just genuinely very special.

It was so emotionally invested in this. I haven't felt this way about like a TV, potential TV pairing. Like I can't remember last time. Like Veronica Mars. It's been like eons that I've been like, oh my God, because I'm so scared that Walter is going to die. That we're never even going to get like a smooch. And like the thing, I mean, Misty is a killer, whatever. But like this show is asking us to root for a lot of bad people, okay?

And so stripping away those other things. What Misty is is someone who was lonely, left out, never fit in, isolated, no one understood her or appreciated her, blah, blah, blah. So is Walter gaslighting her with all these ways in which he like appreciates her? The thing that he says that is a real killer, we're going to get to the case of musicals, don't worry. But when she's worrying that he's a yellow jacket groupie, and he says, I don't care, no offense,

because I'm sure it was significant trauma, but it's the least interesting thing about you. Highlighted and underlined in my notes. Yeah, or when he says a friend who relentlessly has their, they're lucky to have you, a friend who relentlessly has their back. And that is something that we like, like, loyalty, Misty's loyalty last season, that she just shows up to help dispose of Adam or whatever it is when they call, she comes, and they don't appreciate it.

They talk a monumental amount of shit about her. They're not answering her fucking phone call after she disposed of a body for them. Walter gets it. Okay. He's amazing. Imagine how that would feel, like, to hear that. It's the least interesting thing about you. Yeah, like for any, for any yellow jacket, right, where for your, for the last 25 years

of your life, this had been the only thing really that anybody cared about. And they, you would always wonder if that was why someone was interested in you or, like, what somebody was just waiting for you to open up and tell. tell them about. But then for Misty, most of all, this character who has always felt like on the outside to hear somebody say a thing like that. And even like the moment where she's worried that he is a Yellow Jackets obsessive, there's that little like, you know, I'm flattered. Like, I'm the one that you're interested in. But and it just, I was thinking back to season one and Missy's dates and her like, well, wait, you don't want to stay for another drink? And like, wait, don't you want to

come in? And like, do you know, are you like not interested? Do you not think I'm pretty? And like, how the fact that she's really on guard with Walter and it's like not no two rooms is making it even more unbelievable almost like unbearable every minute that we have to wait before they make passionate love to each other and their B&B beds smothered in sunshine honey. I like need it to happen now. I love them so much. I'll introduce my what I'm worried is my Walter theory in a second but let's go back to a musical theater corner because this and like you know in my heart fucking left for you joe i was thrilled for you you know podcast about a lot of like geek properties like let's say the mandolorean right now and like you'll say things like this thing that grogrew did is like the most important thing that has ever happened in the history of television and i'll be like oh there goes now with her hyperbole again we love her

this is the most important thing that has ever happened in the history of television is walters case of musical tapes because whoever curated this. And, you know, Ashley was saying in that interview we did at the beginning of the season that they have one of the writers and the writers, and it's a huge musicals fan. So we know that Misty loves musicals. We heard she loves Andrew Lloyd Webber specifically. We heard cats, Mr. Misfly's and fan of the opera coming from her car radio last season. Um, the collect, I, okay, our screeners are not perfect resolution. So I did a lot of squinting and like squinting at dates and deducing blurred things and like trying to figure it all out. And I got all but two of them for certain. But what I love, okay, so let's just talk about the way that Walter does like a taxonomy at this, right?

Because he's not, okay, first of all, first of all, that it's not on streaming and it's not on CD, but it's on tape. Yeah. Okay. In an episode where Van is leaning into the anachronism of having like a VHS video store, right? So like double tape situation. It's the specific production. that he picks, okay? He's not a glee musical guy. And he's not even like a Disney musical guy, even though like Mary Poppins is in here.

But like it's the Mary Poppins 2005 London West End stage production of Mary Poppins. That's what's in there. He's got a bunch of, sorry, he's got a bunch of Aniloy Weber, a bunch of candor and ebb. All of this is really fascinating. There's no Steven Sondheim, though.

They referenced Stephen Sondheim in a second. But I told you, I was like, it's an outrage. Like, he better have. have a separate case. It's just like all Sondheim. But maybe he does. Sonhai musicals are these little like logic puzzles that would completely appeal to the

Walter and Misties of the world. So like I demand that they have a sonnet case. This is a very 90s kid, um, briefcase of tapes. Like absolutely. Um, I think that what I'm really interested in, I don't know if this is just like, like, there's part of me that wonders like if these tapes just like literally belong to this writer in their writer room, writer's room. But, like, I'm fascinated by the fact that he puts the composer's name on there.

So he'll write out Richard M. Sherman or John Cander or Frederick Lowe. All the composers are on there, but the lyricists aren't. And it's a really weird thing because, like, usually if you're a musical fan, you wouldn't write Frederick Lowe. You would write Lerner and Lowe or you wouldn't write John Cander. You would write Canner and Ebb. Like these, you know, Rogers and Hammerstein, like these musical duos. And the fact that he's just identifying one of them psychologically fascinating. to me. Well, do you think it's because he's been, like, waiting for his, his Misty?

Yeah. His creative partner and soulmate? Learner. I would love that for him. For his Oscar Hammerstein. Yeah. Like, Mamma Mia, too. Like, this is what I'm talking about. It's the 1999 stage production of Mamma Mia. It's not the Merrill Street movie version. There's nothing wrong with the movie version, but like, this is a, this is a musicals guy. Okay. Elijah Wood told Vulture that Walter's love of musicals may be meaningful. I'm very interested in intrigued by that. And if there is like a musical sequence, like a fantasy musical sequence, where Christina Reaching and Elijah Wood like are singing,

they're not doing a musical episode. They told us that, like do not think that they're doing that. But if there is a sequence, I will lose my ever-loving shit. Okay. And then so something says when he, when he's talking to,

of Misty about why he's interested in her in the first place. You know, he's like your deductive reasoning and you dropped a Sweeney Todd reference in one of your posts. This is the dream, Mallory. This is a dream. Sometimes I say things on podcasts that are just like little tiny asides that are really just for myself and someone will like tweet at me and they're like, I caught your Eddie Izard reference or whatever.

And I'm just sort of like, hell yeah. So like, this is the fucking dream that Elijah Wood is going to show up and say you dropped a Sweeney Todd reference, I picked it up and I'm here to go on a road trip with you. No, no, no, no, no. Also, I'm a millionaire, by the way. Also, no, no, no, no.

Let's not go find the cult today. I found a B&B. Let's go there. And then, not to mention, the goddamn montage of the split screen. Oh, my God.

This was the best part of this. season so far. Unbelievable. The absolute lockstep bedtime routines. Like lockstep but like slightly different, right? Like he's got his little headlamp behind the TV. And she has just like the under eye patch. She's got the whole face mask. The tropical birds, kittens, sleeping kittens. But these are compatible people. These are compatible people and they need to be together. I mean, I would say maybe their breakfast selection doesn't totally align. Talk to me how you feel about this

Canadian bacon. From what I can tell, it's scrambled egg, inside Canadian baking, syrup. Okay. That's gross to me, but like, okay, but then, and then mustard. This is correct. This is, I just want to say, thank you for sharing all of that with us. That was beautiful to witness, and I feel fortunate that I got to. It means a lot to me. And then she shits all over Starlet Express. Great. She does. And then she picks a Vita. And then we get Missy and Crystal. And Crystal. In the 96th timeline. Okay.

That makes me work for Walter, right? Because like, where is Crystal now? Well. You know? Like, why aren't adult Crystal and adult Misty singing musicals together now? It's concerning. You know?

I once promised you that Cobbant would absolutely definitively be appearing on season three of the Mandalorian. And so I won't make promises to you anymore because so far that has not happened in season three. We still have a little bit of time, maybe. So I won't promise you that Walter will be okay, mostly because I don't believe that he will. But I'd like him to be. I'd like him to be.

I just need Elijah Wood to like act his way into a band level like existence on the show. We can't get rid of you because you're so compelling. The breakfast moment was abhorrent and shameful. It was a disgrace. And I also thought it was amazing and I loved it. The pride with which he assembled, that little Canadian. bacon, scrambled egg, syrup, mustard, monstrosity taco was just something to behold. I do feel compelled, though, to observe that Misty, who was equally repelled.

Yeah. Was just drinking a full-long glass of milk. So, do she, it's an equal sin for you? That is so funny. It is. It absolutely is. Tapes missing from Walter's Briefcase in addition to. Steven Sondheim. Where is Joseph

an amazing technical dream coat? That needs to be in there. I don't know why it's not there. If we're doing all the Indyloid Weber, why is, like, Starlight's B or

he's got, he's got whistled down the wind in there, but he doesn't have Joseph. Okay. And then also I need to shout out the fake names that they gave

when they checked into the B&B, right? Because she, he goes with John Lang. John Lang is the name of an unsolved mystery, perfect fodder for the Citizens Detective Euro,

like absolute obsessive case. she goes with Lady Malawan, which is the title of Agatha Christie. Agatha Christie's title. And they both acknowledge each other's names and are like, I see you. Oh, my God. Absolutely perfect. Just wonderful. As was I'm going to cry. I'm going to cry. During my pants. It was amazing. And then they both have their sleep sounds. And she's got birds of the tropics. And he has sleep kitty. So, okay, Walter, Dream Person. She's a cat gal though. We know she's had the sweatshirt. the desktop of her computer kittens. They need to be together. Walter's a cat person.

Though what Elijah Wood said in that Vulture interview is he's like in response to sort of that like Moriarty Sherlock line that we highlighted last week is like there are signs that they are not supposed to be together. She listens to birds. He listens to cats or whatever. Here's my fear. Beyond Walter dying. My fear is not that he is, I don't think he's a yellow jacket's groupie. I believe him when he says. that. You think he, like the purple people, is also a bad tipper?

I think he thinks Misty is a killer, and I think he wants to be, like, a killer with Misty. And my question is, like, he's like a, I think you killed Adam or helped kill Adam, and I would like to do more murders with you. Because let's return now to Sweeney Todd. A. Stevensonhai musical about the Demon Barber Fleet Street, who puts people in pies, people in pies and eats them. And it is Sweetie Todd and his accomplice,

Mrs. Lovett, are the people who are popping people into pies. So is Walter a killer groupie? Does he want to do crimes? Here's the thing about that. This is an amazing observation and a great theory.

Now that you say it, I think this is probably true. And if he thinks Misty is a killer, he is cracked because she murdered Jessica Roberts and she did so gladly. She did so in her heart.

And they're heading towards the snack baskets in the B&B have the Sunshine Honey. So they went to the Farmers Market. It's a Tuesday, Joe, delightful. Everything, they're going to meet them right away. Everything's, no. Because Nat and Lisa never made it

to the farmer's market stand. But we get the name of Sunshine Honey and we see Sunshine Honey in the basket. So presumably they'll spot that. the next morning after fucking four to five times in the first few hours of the day.

I don't know. And head up to Route 19. Yeah. Yeah. Is that like a, is that a sex thing? No, I know. I know that's what the person said.

But it could be a sex scene. It could be. You know? Why not? Oh my God. Why not? And so they're going to go. They're going to track the honey.

They're going to go rural area, Route 19, nearby neighboring town and if they need to do a murder, I'd actually be glad that Walter was there to help do the murder, you know? Like doing a coup, doing a murder. They might need to kill someone.

I don't want anything bad to happen to Misty. Poor Walter. But I don't want to let the darkness in either. I don't want them to be pulled toward the dark. It's a tough one. There are some people that they could kill that I would be okay with. So let's just

let's just say this. I feel like when Better Call Saul was ending, I willed some protection for a character. Hashtag Kim Waxler lives. Hashtag Walter lives. Okay. Okay. Okay. Hashtag Walter lives.

That's how I feel. Best needle drop of the episode, Molly Rubin. I'm going with angst in my pants. Just iconic. Okay. My needle drop has to be Mandy Patinkin doing the Rainbow Tour from the Vita, 1976 stage production. We also want to shout out, of course, in this needle drop section that there is a new

version of the opening credit songs No Return done by the one the only Alonis Morse set. So, you know, the 90s, the dream of the 90s are still alive in the show. It's incredible. I hope they get an Alonis cameo at some point. I hope they just have various, like, Little Fair icons do different versions of the no return theme song every season. That would be incredible.

All right. We've already talked about a lot of the lost comps that we have to go back. loss section of this. Anything we haven't talked about that you want to talk about? I don't think so. I think it's really hard to keep the loss of contain. We can't.

It's just like spells out. And I feel bad if people are listening or watching Yellow Jackas and they haven't seen Lost, but like go watch Lost. You will love it. You'll have a blast. If you love Yellow Jackets, you'll love Lost. It didn't end badly.

Don't listen to people when they say that. The ending of Lost is great. It's, you'll love it. I will say in me for the Beachcraft, Laura Lee, a lot of stuff. I was thinking about Mr. Echo a lot. You shout out, Boone and John Locke, but I was thinking about Mr. Echo a lot of visions. Like, that's a very strong, like, Echo Association. James wrote in to say for Conspiracy Corner, I think you're right that someone's left behind, but I think it may be the case of a trade with a trade. Someone stays behind while the

others can get freeze. I keep wondering about the guy they found the cabin. Surely he could have done the work to free the plan and get it going if the girls were able. So, like, is it Like there must always be a stark in Winterfell. There must always be a person in the cabin. Like, you can't go unless it wants blood. I don't know. Wow. Interesting.

I like this. We just found out that we've been spoiling a loss for our producer Carlos. Just dropped this into the chat. It's a tough one. I did know that. And yet here we are. I knew that about Carlos, actually. You know, who's jumping out of the helicopter, right?

Who's pulling a Sawyer? There's another spoiler for you. Well, I'll spend it a long time ago. I just think this is an active part of the text of how we're discussing the show. I mean, like, I'm sorry. We're not going to not talk about lust when they are actively interacting with loss. They're invoking it. Yeah, exactly.

Absolutely. All right. Well, I think that does it for us, for Old Wounds, our favorite episode of the season so far. I'm really optimistic for where we're going from here. We'll turn Misty, get married and live happily ever after, and murder up and down the seaboard. I will support you. This episode was produced by someone who hasn't seen love. Lost is Carla Chirovoga.

All right, we'll see you next week. Bye.