The Prestige TV Podcast - ‘Yellowjackets’ Season 2, Episode 5 Recap

Episode Date: April 21, 2023

Mallory and Joanna break down ‘Yellowjackets’ Season 2, Episode 5: "Two Truths and a Lie." They break down Javi’s return, Lottie’s obsession with Shauna’s baby, and the tragic end to Misty and Crystal’s friendship. Plus, they talk about Randy’s inability to get the job done when called upon, where dark Tai wants to go with Van, and when Shauna will join the rest of the Yellowjackets to confront Lottie. Hosts: Joanna Robinson and Mallory Rubin Associate Producer: Carlos Chiriboga Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hi, I'm Erica Ramirez, founder of Ili, and hosts of What About Your Friends? A podcast dedicated to the many lives of friendship and how it's portrayed in pop culture. Every Wednesday on the ringer dish feed, I talk to my best friend Stephen Othello and your favorites from within the ringer and beyond about friendships on TV and movies, pop culture and our real lives. So join me every Wednesday on the ringer dish feed where we try to answer the question TLCS back in the day, what about your friends. There was something, some darkness. Out there with us or in us. It still is. That's what I was right about.

To the Prestige TV podcast feed, I'm Joanna Robinson. Joining me today to memorialize Kristen, not crystal, and perhaps wonder if she might be next on the menu. It's Mallory Rubin. Hi, Mallory. Joe, speaking of menus, I got us some chips, but I ate all the freados. Classic. Honestly, if I have a soulman on this show, it might be Randy himself.

Come on, Rand. All right, let's get into it. So quick programming reminders here on the prestige feed, Succession Going Strong, Barry, kicking off with Sean and Bill Hader ever heard of him. We're going to be covering some love and death. Rob Mahoney and I are going to be doing some love and death coming up. So stay tuned for all of that. And a really, really, really important program reminder this week to flag for you. which is that according to Showtime, according to the press side, according to an email they sent us, blah, blah, there is no new episode of Yellow Jackets next week.

So they're taking a bye week. That's a sports reference and I think I got ready. They're taking a bye week and so will we. So we will not be here with the Yellow Jackets episode next week, but we will be back the following week for episode six. Mel, how can people be sure to know when and where we are recording new episodes? or not. Follow the pod, folks. Follow the Prestige TV podcast on Spotify or wherever you get your podcast.

Follow all of the ringers, social feeds, Twitter, Instagram, TikTok, you name it. And of course, if you have thoughts, if you have theories, if you have questions, hey, is it in fact a hiatus week? Hey, here's my theory about Thing X in the Yellow Jackets universe, whatever the case may be, an Apple thought, a mushroom recipe for Joe if you're catching up on the last of us pods. Hobbits and Dragons at gmail.com. always open. A quick prompt for you that I did not prepare you for. I get a lot of succession emails, despite never telling people to send me their succession thoughts there.

What would you, what would be your succession at gmail.com? Well, it's tough because, you know, my instinct is like the disgusting brothers. Gmail.com or something like that. But I don't, I don't think we want to swing too far into prestige after dark with the email inbox. Oh, boy. Hearts and Hibs at gmail.com would be a fun one. I'm so unbranded for you. I love that.

Okay. This week we're talking about season two episode five, two truths and a lie, written by Catherine Kearns and Sarah L. Thompson, directed by Ben Seminoff. Ben did episode two, the one where they ate Jackie. So Ben is back again for another monumental episode. The summary that they put on the website, IMDB, et cetera, et cetera, is, okay, fellow jackets, rise and shine. Don't forget your booties because it's cold out there. Misty makes a leaf of faith for her bestie. Natalie and Lottie play a game of surrender.

Shawna finds herself unexpectedly Randy and Ty seeks out a movie recommendation. So that's pretty self-explanatory. It starts the beginning as a Groundhog's Day reference and the rest is just, you know, what actually happened. With a fun, Randy pun. I love Randy. What a season for Randy. It's not quite strawberry lube, but it's lotion. It'll do.

Okay. Unreliable narrator, hallucinator counter. This week is low. Thus far, we think it's only Lottie in the Antler's shadow on the floor. And Nat, with her whole, we're all dead on a plane and the Antler Queen is possibly me sort of scenario, which we'll talk about later. And then Mallory wanted to make sure that I mentioned mystical wind stuff. That's not the afraid she used. Yeah.

Love the wind. Love the pine needles. Yeah. Whatever the wind is whispering ominously, sussurating. Even when we don't have overt, unreliable narrator, hallucinator, tally marks, we still get characters who are like, maybe Avi's a ghost, you know? Can I always count on yellow jackets for new fodder. Yeah, a lot of great, you know, audience insiders.

assert theorizing this week. Quick emails, corrections department tour. Last week we were asking what the Frank Comstock composition was in the summary last week. That's the Rocky and Bullwinkle theme, moose, squirrel, etc. Mari and the dripping. This email comes from Marissa, and I love this theory, right? Marissa says, there's a possibility that the dripping Mari is hearing is foreshadowing her.

Sorry, this is morbid. body being drained of blood in the pilot after the pit girl is captured. They show the blood slowly dripping into the white snow as she hangs. Marissa's email here reminded me of a plot point in The Haunting of Hillhouse, which I will just say like the phrase, the bent-neck woman that has an incredible payoff. I'm not going to spoil it. Haunting Hillhouse will come up again in our discussions today. Incredible show.

Mallory, you are a horror chicken. Have you seen The Haunting of Hillhouse? What do you think? Yeah, no. I can barely read this. female. How do you feel about this sort of like foreseeing her own death dripping thing? It's just deeply upsetting. I mean, I think it's possible that Marissa is onto something here. I do. Deeply distressing to contemplate. And yet, it tracks the Yellow Jackets experience in a nutshell.

Do you think Crystal was like, what is that clanging sound like a bucket full of shit falling off a cliff? Like, do you think she heard her own death coming as well? Yeah, but if she, if anyone was asking, what's that clinging? I would just assume they had been listening to our Mando Pods, you know, clang and bang. Klinging and banging. All right. Check out the ring or verse. Ty obviously had a pair of scissors when she cut all her hair off.

So when we've been asking like, how are the ropes been cut or how are Lottie's bang so perfect? You know, our listeners kindly pointing out that there are at least, there is at least one pair of scissors in that cabin. And then also last week I said something about like sex equals magic. happening, but the only two instances I references were Travis-based sex. And one of our listeners pointed out that, like, surely Ty and Vanner having sex sometimes. So let's reconfigurate this formula and say maybe it's sex plus blood because Jackie was bleeding when she had sex with Travis and Nat was bleeding from her leg when she had sex with trial. So blood plus magic plus sex equals something, maybe.

Is that a fun equation? Yeah. All right. Shout out to Joy for calling out. Okay. And then the concept of psychiatrist versus therapist. I don't know if I used the wrong term last week. I probably did.

But we got a couple emails pointing out that the person that Lottie is going to see is a psychiatrist. As someone who believes firmly in mental health and has seen both psychiatrists and therapists, I should have gotten this completely straight, but a psychiatrist is someone you see usually infrequently who is responsible for keeping your medication, like your dosage correct, upping your dosage, changing your medication. If it's not working, something like that, you see them. So, you know, when the replacement psychiatrist, who we are very suspicious of, says to Lottie, you've been seeing Dr. Graham at a fixed time every six months for the past 10 years, blah, blah, and says, you're not due for another five weeks. That's a psychiatrist. That's an infrequent psychiatrist visit. It is still absolute bullshit, according to multiple psychiatrists who email us, that Dr. Graham would not inform Lottie that he was taking a sabbatical, even if he was coming, like, you know, even if the five weeks he would have been back or something like that, he still would have let her know that he was going to be out of pocket for a little while.

And that's the theory that he has been kidnapped and replaced by a plant stands. Yes, we love it. Okay. Sam wrote in to talk about this idea of, like, I don't think we've talked about a lot, but this idea of like pre-internet post-internet, 1996, only 20 million people in the U.S. had internet access. That makes our characters during that timeline effectively pre-internet people, which makes for an interesting contrast with characters today. I think Yellow Jackets is driving a pointed comparison between pre-internet life, focused on IRL community, IEA soccer team, and the more disparate, isolated life of the present.

I like that concept a lot. Do you have any thoughts or feelings about that, Mallory? I think that's interesting to consider especially through the lens of something like, say, the Misty Walter plotline in the present day where people who spend a lot of their time on the internet, on the citizen detective bureau, interacting, sleuthing, meeting people, forming attachments, then meet up in real life and like what does that look like to try to tell somebody about yourself then. So I definitely think that there's something here just about the nature of connection, the nature of consumption, the question of how much of yourself is available for other people to like find, see, glean before you choose to share it, etc. Yeah. And I think, you know,

we've discussed this before, but this idea that a lot of cults come out of a foundation idea of like an intentional community, which is usually the result of people wandering around feeling isolated, feeling disconnected, feeling lonely. And so, you know, they join a intentional community to commune. And then commune can devolve into cults if you're not paying enough attention. Okay. Last but not least, Maggie wrote in to talk about the characters, the characters and their animal counterparts. If you think back to the first shot we got of the Antler Queen in season one, all the people, I'm going to say people because. Travis might be there.

So all the people sitting around the antler queen have like a animal totem or other on them. You know, there's like raccoon, skunk, badger, question mark. And then there's like the most disturbing of all is like the sock-based sort of bunny situation that is horrifying. Anyway. Maggie writes in to say to like run down sort of some of the associations we have so far. Lottie and the deer is probably the most blatant, she says. But there's also Ty and wolves. Probably argue that Van is a wolf as well because of her injuries.

Shawna and the rabbits, Misty and Birds. And then between these last two episodes, we've gotten the new animal reps, Nat with the Moose and Akila with Nugget the Mouse. I just decided to add Nugget's name in there because... A little nugget. A little Nug. Darling. Something to track.

Obviously, we have no skunk, raccoon, badger, bunny. Well, Bunny is Shana about like creepy sock bunny people. but, you know, just something to look out for is interesting to track. Are you looking for support in your weight management journey? Zepbound terseptide may be able to help. Zepbound is a prescription medicine used with a reduced calorie diet and increased physical activity to help adults with obesity, or some adults with overweight who also have weight-related medical problems

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Don't share needles or pens or reuse needles. Don't take if allergic to it, or if you or someone in your family had medullary thyroid cancer, or if you've had multiple endocrine neoplasia syndrome type 2. Tell your doctor if you get a lump or swelling in your neck. Stop Zepbound and call your doctor if you have severe stomach pain or a serious allergic reaction. Severe side effects may include inflamed pancreas or gallbladder problems.

Tell your doctor if you experience vision changes before scheduled procedures with anesthesia if you're nursing, pregnant, plan to be, or taking birth control pills. Taking Zepound with a sulfonel urea or insulin may cause low blood sugar. Side effects include nausea, diarrhea, and vomiting which can cause dehydration and worsen kidney problems. Talk to your doctor. Call 1-800-545-99-9 or visit zepbounds.lily.com. As we get into the episode breakdown, we want to start with just the most glorious gift for my beloved friend, Mallory Rubin, and it is our guy, Javi, in 1996. Havi, unwilling to talk to most people, especially wary of Lottie, it seems.

Like he noticed Lottie looking at him when Travis is trying to cajole him into talking. So, Javie's not talking to Travis. He's not talking to anyone. Except for Coach Ben, who's up and out of him, out of bed, hopping around, looking at some floor art. Ben picks up a scrap of drawing that looks like a root system. Javi takes it for him in. Then what does he say, Mallory? What does Javi say here?

Oh, boy. What a thrilling moment this was. she told me not to come back. Javi says, who did? Ben asks. My friend. Javi says, Javi, who is your friend? And Javi takes the drawing of the root system

that is clearly connected to an entrance to this hatch system that we have been talking about all season where Javi has been hiding out with the Antler Queen. And so many of the little strands of theory fodder are coming together here for us in a really just honestly thrilling way. This was so much fun. Even before the Ben Exchange, when Jen and Co. were talking about whether Havie could be a ghost or just where he was and everybody's whispering and speculating, he could have found another cabin or other people even. I don't know. We're in the Lost Headspace all the time, but I just think

that the people making this show know we're going to be thinking about Lost and the others. And so to use literally the word other there, the other people. Like, they're, they're cultivating the lost other comp and theorizing. And that was just really like so fun. So Joe, in that first stretch where everybody's like, oh, speculating, where's he been? What's he been doing? And Mari's like, you owe it because you took our bare-made classic, classic Mari. Unbelievable. Just a vintage chef's kiss work from Mari there. You can only be who you are as Mari reminds us constantly. There's a moment. I think with the caveat that we don't have subtitles,

and can't be certain where we hear, hey, Javi, where'd you find that queen card? So you've been noting all season, the missing queen card from the pack initially, but we know that queen card is coming, seeing it with the scratched out eyes, haunting Lottie in the present day, right? you've been talking about, well, what might be coming with the pulling of the card? Is that what leads you to be sacrificed in the pit?

So this connects not only to like getting to the point where we have a queen in the set, but of course to the idea of the antler queen, who better to provide it than a member of the wilderness others, the antler queen? And this gets back to one of the very first prompts you threw out, I think actually in our primer pod, like are we sure a lot is the antler queen? So what if the antler queen isn't in the group at all? What if this is the Magus, the to go? go back to our Ben Book Club conversation. And there's this figure out there manipulating, guiding, bringing Javi into the hatch, giving Javier this queen guard. And now he introduces them and they're being guided toward this ritual. Counter theory.

Hit me. Because that's so external. And I kind of rather like that the darkness comes from within them rather than like a literal figure out there wanting them. Yeah. And they're weighing that exact. set of possibilities, right? Nat's saying in this very episode. That's very idea.

I put this down in theory corner, but I'm going to draw it up, which is like, what if when he says my friend, what he means is shadow tie? Like, that's a thought I had because, like, they pulled this on us in season one when Sammy's like the other one, blah, blah, blah, and it was just tie. So I was like, what if Harvey's friend is just this other. Ty who would have no memory of having talked to Javi, et cetera, et cetera. But would

know to walk to Hobby, right? Because Tye is the one, Shadow Tye is the one who walks to him in the first place. You know what I mean? So like, as much as I want there to be others for your delight and for mine, yeah. The idea of like a literal

trickster magist, antler queen out there could be true. But then I feel like it's going to take because out of that ambiguity space that the show likes to keep us in of like, is this real, is this imagined supernatural,

mercury poisoning, what's going on, et cetera, et cetera. Yeah. Well, and I guess that gets back to the, to keep the lost comps rolling

as we're prone to, if there were such a figure, if that figure is more of a Jacob, right, which kind of solves the mystery, or if it's more of a Ben, or even like a Richard or a, a Widmore,

like somebody who also is being, influenced by or wondering if they are being influenced by some other force. But so many little things to chew on here with the card, with the drawing of the root system. Also just a lovely reminder that Javi is a very capable artist, beautiful drawing of the root system, beautiful carving of the wolf back in season one. Are we giving up? Kling fast year, my dear. I love that about you.

The other compelling idea for me around Shadow Tye. being the other is the queen of hearts, which we saw in Lonnie's sort of vision, has the eyes marked out. And shadow tie, no eyes, no eyes, sort of link sort of thing. So anyway, hatch, hatch, hatch, that's just something that we have to say. We're waiting for it. And I just thought it was interesting that like coach Ben, who has been, you know, lingering in bed and imagining girls foaming at the mouth, wanting to eat him, etc., etc., he would be very invested in investigating others. Get me the fuck out of here. These girls are going to eat me, Ben, you know? Well, if he does set out to find them and is hoping that he finds a sympathetic camp,

I'm not sure that would be what happened. Doesn't seem like anybody out there wants other people to leave. So there's four episodes left And my question is early Early question for you Yeah Given that crystal Spoiler for this very episode Given that crystal dies, right?

Yeah And like they may or may not eat her If they find her Yeah Gonna have to dig through some snow drifts After the blizzard If they pull her out of the deep freeze If they go into the garage

And pull her out of the deep freeze, right And defrost her and eat her What does that say for the survival likelihood for Coach Ben. How many people are they going to eat this season? Or are two young women enough? It's a great question. How close are we to exiting winter at all? Because a lot of a lot of ice are melting. Yeah. Golden hour at the beginning of the episode, Sun streaming in. Yeah. Right onto the, onto the nice, like, quirkboard area there. Sun on our theories, you love to see it. But like the number of camera shots lingering on the icicle, yeah, there's the way that it makes you think about time and the

of time and the possibility of a return to the warmth before the freeze at the end, but also like what is happening, what is juxtaposed against those moments in terms of like character, belief, and open-mindedness and whether there is a connection there to some sort of like embrace by the wilderness slash darkness or some sort of punishment, if that's like a read that you have on the show. I think there's a way that you can kind of look at it there too. Love it. All right. Let's go. We're going to do Ty and Van now, both in the past and the present. Most, not a lot of Van in the past, by the way, in this episode, but like most of Thai storyline in this episode is, in the 90s,

is centered on her joining Lottie's prayer circle, A, because it means she stopped sleepwalking and B because it makes Van happy, happy wife, happy life. Something you and I like to talk about, Mallory on the various shows that we cover is like when we're shown every step of a storyline and when we're not. And what is true in Yellow Jackets' season is we are not shown the moment that Ty first decides to join Lottie's circle because it can't have been this week's because she's talking about how it's already helping herself. Right? So she already decided at some point, despite being very resistant and saying like, fuck you, Van, we're not doing this. So in your view, do we, is that something that you're missing? Do you wish we had seen that moment? Or is it a

enough that it just happened and we're given to understand her point of view as to why she did it. I think typically, like, I'm inclined to fall into the former camp and say I wish I'd seen it. In this particular case, I thought it was compelling not to have known because, like, over the course of the episode, we're really trying to deduce how much of what Ty is doing is to humor, van, you know, which had not been her inclination on this front to that point, or how much she is just saying that, like almost using that as cover for what over the course of the episode appears to be budding belief.

And so, like, you go back to the conversation last week, Van saying after they had found Hobby, you know, you can't deny this anymore. There's something deep inside you that is connected to all of this and how resistant tie has been to the idea of the super, to team, not just team Lottie, but like team faith more broadly in our, you know, man of science, man of faith divide that we're tracking in lost terms. You go, you do it. You start to feel the effects. You tell yourself you're only doing it for van. Then you say later in the episode,

well, actually, it's helping me. And I'm not going to apologize for that. And then you're whispering the words onto the wind just like everybody else. And so like especially in an episode where we get, which we'll talk about more of this really fascinating conversation between Akila and Thai about like superstition, ritual belief, like track. the progression into true belief. And like I guess, I mean, I agree with you on that, but I think I would have liked to have seen the very first step of that. The moment where she decided. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I think like the reason that I'm okay with it is like something that we were talking about over the last couple pods with present day tie and this question of like, and this is we were talking about it was Thai, but more broadly true with the characters, like not thinking about them as always in an either or. I believe or I don't, but how maybe they move in and out of those camps and like that it can be a cycle for certain characters over time. So if we think about a character like present day Ty, who is sacrificing beloved biscuit at the altar of Big Symbol, it's, that's an easier thing for me to now understand knowing that Ty had a dalliance, however short lived or long lived, with the supernatural in the past. And so, like, even if I think if there hadn't been a specific moment actually where she was like, sure, I'll go do this, it feels like something that got its hooks in her without her even knowing. And that kind of fits with her character. But yeah, I mean, you know, it's always helpful to just see it. I think it's interesting. But like, yeah, like when we think about like we really understand. I mean, I understand. Obviously I understand what's going on with her. But like we got to see the moment that Travis got kind of like radicalized. We got to see the moment like Van got kind of radicalized. I don't really care, you know, like sort of thing. So anyway, I'm not going to harp on it.

You mentioned this Akila Thai conversation, which is what we're going to talk about. Next, this is the second, like, sort of intimate sharing conversation between these two characters. Akela was, like, very much a background character last season. She's the only girl on the plane who was JV brought up because of what happened to Allie, right? So, like, I've heard people refer to, like, Jen and some of the others is JV. No one's JV here. This is pure varsity. Plus Misty, right?

And so Achilla's been called up to the big show, as they say, right? Out of JV into varsity. And they had this crib building moment in advance of the baby shower where they were talking about Akela's nephew and is this, like, really beautiful sharing moment. And what I really like in this episode is Akela's like, she joins the circle, clearly not believing, like sort of rolling her eyes at Ty as she's sitting there because Ty had.

And we got an email from a listener, Marissa, who was talking about, like, this connection, a couple weeks ago that I didn't read, but, like, this connection between Thai and Akila might be because there are very few non-white girls here on this trip. I don't know about, I mean, there's, you know, a decent mix, but, like, this idea of, like, young black women finding each other and connecting with each other in a sea of whiteness, et cetera. Can we hear this clip, Carlos, from Akela? What about you? Well, I saw you going. And I'll board. Back home, Rachel and I had this pregame ritual. Before every game, Rachel and I would pump ourselves up to Easy Lover. And then I would put on my lucky socks and she would put on her lucky shingards.

And then we would tap our cleats on the line at the same time before we took the field. That's really cute. But I'm not sure how well it worked. You guys lost a lot. Well, maybe we would have lost more without it. maybe it wasn't even the point. It felt good. Like, we could pretend it made a difference.

Like, we would play better or they would play worse. I mean, it's not like we really believed in it. Not deep down, but we still did it before every game. I think I am going to keep going to Lottie's morning thing. Yeah, I'll probably keep going too. So, I mean, this is an incredible moment in a show that is essentially showing us like the origins of religion, of a religious movement. You know, believe what you want to believe about any level of religion, but what religion does across the board is help people make sense of the world that they live in, right? and that these young women are thrust into this completely unnavigable, unfathomable situation.

And Laura Lee in her way was providing some sort of like, you know, institution from the outside world kind of guidance. In absence of her, Lottie is stepping in as this other figure. And this idea, I love this scene because, like, Akila putting in this story, terms of like pre-gram ritual, first of all, something that like, you know, these soccer players might understand, but like any of us can understand. I don't, I'm not a sports fan, but I definitely understand the like concept of like wearing your lucky socks when your team. Do you have, do you have Baltimore traditions, Mallory? What do you do? If I like snap my fingers a certain way before and at bat and a good thing happens, I keep doing it. Yeah. I mean, I once sat in the most

uncomfortable position during a Maryland Terrapin, NCAA tournament run for like a solid, hour and 17 minutes. I absolutely do. I also thought this was a wonderful scene. I love the Akila tie relationship and that we've gotten to spend time with these characters together. I was slightly puzzled by

Akela shifting into the skeptic camp here because we had, when we did the math last week, she was one of the characters who was like, well, the blood fell on the symbol and then a thing happened. I hope Ladi's okay, et cetera.

But this was still a wonderful conversation and I was glad we got it. This made me think so powerfully of Bull Durham and like the absolutely iconic Crash Davis streak speech. If you believe you're playing well because you're getting late or because you're not getting laid or because you wear women's underwear, then you are and you should know that. That's what he says to Annie. And I love this thinking about them like you're saying as a team and characters who would be

inclined maybe to put stock in superstition and when does a superstition become a ritual? And then when does a ritual become belief and when does belief become this like guiding religious philosophy or principle and orienting aspect of your life? Like, and what is belief really? And the way that the show was interested in assessing that, when does that come from other people? When does that come from necessity? When does that come from something within? Like what of which of these rituals that they begin in the wilderness around those feelings specifically, and this was what I loved about the framing from Akila here, around a desire to foster a sense of control that you know is not real, right? But if you feel like you are so out of control, then you're even more inclined,

of course, to try to manufacture approximated in any way you can. And if you think it works, then where does that lead you? And as you intimated it before, like, you can draw a straight line from this to tie with Shauna in the snow with nothing else to do but to chant these words. You know what I mean? And then there's a result. So what does that do to the evolution of your belief? And furthermore, what is on the show's mind? I am really liking this season of Yellow Jackets. I have heard from some people that they are not. I'm really into it. And I think it is so much on its mind. And I think that this idea of the accusation of the accusation. that Nat will occasionally fling it Lottie of like,

and what happens when you know what happened? So like this ominous what happened, which we have some sense of, but not a full shape of yet, is another piece of it, which is, you know, when does ritual become belief? When does belief become religion, like sort of thing?

What are the possible fallouts of organized religion or surrendering to a belief so much that you lose your grip? on some other code of decency of civilization of we don't hunt people for sport and food sort of thing. You know what I mean? So I think it's completely fascinating. I love it in these two, I love this conversation in these two skeptic characters. I love it we don't know who Rachel is and we don't need to.

This is one of Akila's JV friends. You know, I googled Rachel's Yellowjackets before, you know, before this episode dropped, no results. So this is not a character we've heard about before. We don't need to. I think else you want to say that before we go. to present day, Ty, we go to while you're streaming. Take me to the movie store with the bros being like, these are movies?

Can I just say that I have, like, whenever it's shown in a movie or TV show, the idea of like a living space above your little shop always looks so pleasant to me. And like maybe it's not because maybe you feel like you never really leave work. It gives me like, yeah, just an incredible, incredible amount of work-life balance anxiety when I see things like that. Absolutely. But like if you're working on a shop, which closes at a certain point, maybe, anyway. But we see Van is doing work after hours. So here we go.

Okay. So like Ty passed out, comes in, passes out. Yes. Wakes up later, Van is like working on this wedding video, right? She's digitizing this wedding video. And I felt like she was looking very wistfully at this wedding video of these complete strangers, right? I think it's really telling that Ty tells Van... everything immediately about the dog, about everything.

And that feeds into our season-long conversation about, like, the people who can understand and hang with your darkness and the people who can't. And this idea that, like, Simone, someone, Ty has been married to for 15 years, is someone that Ty does not feel like she can share this with and B, does not even try to understand what's going on with ties immediately repulsed. Can't blame her. I'm not blaming Simone, but, like, you know, in contrast to Van. You know, however, Van is not willing to share the breath of her darkness with Ty because she is hiding this oxy habit that she apparently has here.

Says the pills were Vickies. Yeah. Right. Her mom's. So Shadow Ty makes an appearance here as well. She gives Van an aggressive smooch and says, this isn't where we're supposed to be. And then just wanders off. Like, I kind of love Shadow Ty.

She's just like, does what she wants. You know what I mean? Indeed. Yeah. Quite. What do you make of this time frame update that we got? Because we get this conversation around the little pen, the little nudie pen that she got from the trucker. It's a gift for van.

And they mentioned being together at Shauna's wedding, being at Sean's wedding, at least. And Shauna's wedding took place five years after the return, according to some Googling than I did. So were they together for five years post-crash? If so, that is such a long time. for like young people to be together. It's such like a formative, uh, relationship. Or were they just like there as pals is unclear? But what seems clear to me, based on how Lauren Ambrose is playing this, is that whatever

happened, Ty ended it. And ban feels very vulnerable and guarded around her. What is your read on this? I'm mixing my pop culture metaphors because I'm fucking upset, you know? Yeah. That's where. You got a little sign-fell in your high fidelity. Yeah, it's been driven.

Yeah, the Shawna Jeff time frame was fascinating. For a couple reasons. You know, we've not returned to that 98 window yet since, like, that one glimpse, which I'm a little surprised by, but also in a way grateful for, because there's just so much inside of every episode already that that that. would be, I think, quite complex to navigate. But we know that Ty went to college. We know from that conversation that we've cited before

between Ty and Shauna at the Sadecki home, the rare scene not in the kitchen in the Sadeki home, that Ty went ahead with her plans, had the goals that she had set and saw them through. And so, like, did Ty go to college immediately upon returning from the wilderness? Maybe not, but maybe. And so maybe there was a period away from Van,

and then the wedding was like a reunion of some sort and maybe a painful one, and maybe they separated after that. I don't know how actively involved in each other's lives there were. I think you're right that the key part is something happened that led to contact and communication ceasing. And my suspicion would be that part of the part of the thing. part of what, if we think about that and the reluctance that Van has here to show Ty this,

what she considers this dark truth about her current life, that Van maybe feels like Ty wanted to distance herself from Van specifically because of that shared darkness, that shared past, the things that Van knew about Ty, the Thai didn't want other people to know. And so even if Ty is there now saying, you're the one person I could tell I sacrificed by dog at the altar and I'm sleepwalking and all these horrible things are happening. what do I do? I'm scared that if Van reciprocated and kind, that Ty would not want that. So I don't know. I wonder how much more we'll learn. I mean, we don't know anything about Van in the present day, really, other than what we've glimpsed here. Well, we do know is she's way, way off the grid, right?

That's what Jessica says. Like, she's way way off the grid. And if you contrast Van's decision to go to live in Oberlin, Ohio, in a video store that probably not a lot of people even go. And into. So in terms of like the yellow jacket groupies and whatever, there is, I think tie is obviously the most public facing yellow jackets. This is something that Shauna takes exception to in season one, right? She's doing something that they weren't supposed to be doing. We said we weren't going to do this. But like, Ty, getting into politics, tie, like wanting to be out there in the world and maybe in doing so feels the need to shove that darkness all the way down into a corner, right? And Van wanting to just retreat from the world.

At any rate, I love Lauren Ambrose's performance of Van Here. I think that, like, her hurt and her guardedness, but her clear affection for and care for Ty. It makes, like, a really beautiful balance. I just have, like, one bone to pick with Van, which is the crumbs all over her counter. It drove me absolutely. I can't handle crumbs on the counter.

There's so much mess. can tolerate, but crumbs on the counter, I cannot. I'm sorry. You got to like, you don't want to waste any of a donut, a delicious donut. Not a narrow as sprinkle. I mean, I don't, I don't like donuts really, but like, yeah, she's like, she's like, she's like, crushing them, crushing into her hand. I love a donut. Shout out the needle drop here, of course. It's the fantastic what's up by four and on blondes, but starts with the lyric 25 years. My life is still. Just delightful. Wonderful stuff on the needle drop from from from yellow. jackets as always. I loved that one. Where do you think that they're supposed to be, Joe,

given that other tie is saying this isn't where we're supposed to be? Where is no eyes guiding other tie now? No, to all the other yellow jackets. Are we going to sunshine, honey as a group? Yeah, we've got three out of six adult yellow jackets are currently at camp. Well, and now, Shauna knows something's up with Nat, so she'll start sleuthing. I think we're heading towards a convergence of all yellow jackets. Yeah, around the hive. Um, Video store, Oz and N's while we're still here. Yeah. Poster watch.

Yeah, I will. Okay. Ferris Bueller poster, pretty and pink poster just feels like, you know, appropriate for however old van is, right? Weird, very weird that there's a very distinctive Sunset Boulevard poster that is both upstairs in her living quarters and downstairs in the video store. That seems like a production design quirk to me, that they were like, we love this poster. Let's use it again.

It was very odd that it was in both places. High Fidelity, of course, if you aren't aware of the book and the film, but it is about a guy who is reassessing all the relationships of his life, going back and revisiting all the ex-girlfriends to figure out where he went wrong and sort of all this sort of stuff. Perfect reference for her to make there. Party Girl is a movie that she recommends to this sort of like baby gay who walks into her store, which is a little shout out, I think, to Yellow Jacket's director, Daisy Von Scherner. mayor who directed Party Girl and she directed the premiere of this season as well. Fisher King is super interesting because Fisher King deals with a person who is either mentally ill or a spiritual leader. A really fast, like, she's just shelving it. It's not even like highlighted.

She's shelving Fisher King. And that's just like a perfect 90s movie to think about the line between. what is true divine inspiration and what is actually mental illness, Robin Williams' great film. And then Watermelon Woman, yes, a seminal queer film from Van. So I love that she's like not only teaching the youth about VCRs and VHS, but also presumably educating the young gays in her community. Because she's got the like rainbow welcome mat and the rainbow like kite sock outside the door. So she's like, this is not just a video store. this is a gay video store.

Anything else you want to say about the filmography? Anything you noted? I think he covered it. I mean, we talked about the way that Lost would deploy books for Easter eggs and clues. And, hey, maybe there's some real rich thematic tie here. And maybe this is just a little wink. But I love the idea of this deeply 90s show using videotapes in this way. And obviously, they're also...

literary moments on the show and musical moments on the show, the point is in a certain direction. But for so much of that to be seeped in what you'd need of VCR to understand is just a true delight. We got a couple of emails about this. We neglected to note it, but I didn't forget it that in season one, Van, like, tells the story of while you were sleeping, a fireside for the girls in the wilderness. So, like, the fact that our store is called While You Were streaming is a nice little nod to that. I would love to see more and more moments where Van in the past is, recounting the plots of movies and stuff like that by the fireside. Yeah, they've got time to fill.

Why not? I love this shit. This is great for me. Okay. Let's go through the Sedeckis. Okay. Something I was talking to our producer Carlos about before we started recording is like what what our critiques of the season if we had some would be and we both agreed and we mentioned this last week. The Sedecki plot line feels like pretty isolated from the rest of the story. And I don't love like Melanie and Linsky sort of feeling like she's out in space a little, like with much love and respect to Callie and Jeff, et cetera, as scene partners. Like, I want to see Mellie Linsky mixing in with, or the yellow jackets, and she hasn't since Misty bought her a cookie cake in episode one. So, um, they're going to have to get some help for Misty again after they kill Saracusan,

hot Kevin. Sarah Kusa. They're going to need some assistance disposing of the body. TikTok on that guy's life, right? Okay. Oh, without question. We're just doing presentation. Shana now, we'll do flashback, Shana later towards the end of the episode.

But shout out to Callie, who's not only a quote-to-quote sexual hustler at the bowling ball joint, but that's not what you call a bowling alley is the word I was looking for, pulling ball joint. But she cracks the case on Detective Saracusa pretty quickly. How did you feel about this? I felt I felt proud of Callie, yes, but also. mortified on behalf of heavy air quotes J. This guy's a fucking idiot. Now, I'm excited to talk about the enthusiasm with which he examined the strawberry lotion-filled condom.

But if you are working in an unsanctioned undercover capacity with a minor, with a minor. You can't use your credit card with your real name and just leave the bill out there to come back into the fray at any point. Like what a fucking buffoon this guy is. Yeah, he's a buffoon, but how do you feel about him saying

she might be good, but I'm better? Just remarkable hubris from this absolute dult. I did enjoy the musical accompaniment to this scene. can't make me come so I made you leave. It's a tough one for our guy, Sarcusa. This song is called Necking. The song at the bowling alley is called Necking by the band Big Mouth.

This is the actual band in the show performing at a bowling alley, a song that exists in the world. I love that Syracusa quotes the Big Lobowski and Kelly is no idea what the fuck he's talking about because she is like a child and has not been hanging out with Vanns. So it's not been educated on the Big Lobowski. That's okay. And then we go to your favorite place in mind, the Sadeki Family Kitchen. And now we need to talk about another food crime that's in this episode. First, we have the donut crumbs. Now we have Jeff and Sean are making savory sandwiches on cinnamon raisin bread because it was on sale.

It's not okay. It's not okay. Incorrect. Now, if you toast a piece of cinnamon raisin bread and you spread some butter on it, cream cheese even. You could even do cream cheese. Absolutely. Yes.

You could. You should. We would have no comment if you had. It would be great. You could even make that as, like, if you want to take two pieces, like it's a bagel and put cream cheese in between and make a sort of sandwich out of it, I support it. Yeah. But not this. But there's like lettuce and cheese and deli meats out on the counter. I believe Jeff is holding like a giant that of mayo. I was like praying. Again, screeners. So maybe I'm wrong. But I'm assuming it. I'm like, please God tell me this is marshmallow fluff. Please God. Horrifying.

I did love the split reactions between Shana and Jeff for everything that Callie says, right? Callie's like, say you won't be mad. And Jeff's like, sure. Shana's like, no. And then she says he's a cop and Jeff's like, how old is he? Fucking cop. And Shana gets a fucking cop.

Anyway. And so Callie tells them about something that we haven't mentioned yet, but that she had the brilliant idea to say, I found out who my mom was sleeping with. it's good old-fashioned Randy Randi, Randog himself. Yeah. And Sean is like, love this plan. Yeah.

She's like, let's roll with it. You're on to something here. This is like week three or four of Jeff being like very reluctantly on board with what's going on here. You know what I mean? You told him my wife was sleeping with my best friend. I mean, we get a little bit of the what there's no book club like vintage Jeff energy when he's like, When Callie says it's fine, I fix it. And Jeff's like, what?

How? I just love seeing Jeff so perplexed by the women around him in his life. But I don't think we often find ourselves. We root for Jeff. We love Jeff. I don't think we often find ourselves in the position of agreeing with Jeff. This is a moment, though, where he is on the side of right. And with love and respect in our hearts for Shawna and Callie, this is a grave, grave, grave error.

Like- Is bad at crime. Once again, yeah. You could say, okay, tough spot to find yourself in. You threw the Randy thing out there, noted, we support you, we're all on this together, we'll find our way forward. Why do you immediately need to run with text your cop to tell him to follow me to the motel the night? Not exactly in those words, but like, why is Shauna trying to take this next step?

It just runs the risk of being found out, which she promptly is. This is just so, so, so sloppy. Bafflin. As you mentioned, though, Randy, that absolute legend, not only ate all the Fritos, but does helpfully tell Shauna about the quote-unquote FBI interrogation, Natalie and the Purple Weirdos, very helpfully, hopefully, drawing Shauna into the main plot of her own damn show this season. That would be a great.

That would be a treat. you, Randy. I'd also just like to shout out, Jeff, for telling Randy. Don't touch my wife. Yeah. You didn't tell me much. They were supposed to hang out for a bit and not to touch you. That's great. Great stuff. Randy. That when he sees the condom and he's like, oh, Shawna, I'm flattered. Of course, we know that when they were, you know, when they were youngsters growing up, Randy was quite smitten with Shawna. But he's like, Tammy just took me back. And China says, Randy, this is not for us. Just jerk off and throw it into the trash.

Poetry. Tell them a little bit more of the play. You're just telling the whole plan. Tell him a little bit more of the plan so we understand the stakes. So he doesn't just like strawberry emotion spooge into it that you're trying to create a crime scene. Like no one lets Randy into the loop. Like it's unbelievable. But she got, I think she would she have maybe never, but she got spooked when he mentioned the blackmail again.

She was like, keep the word blackmail out of your fucking mouth. And I don't think she had a ton of comedy. Female. She's sitting on the bed in the motel and Randi's in the bath. Just turning the lights on it off. Oh, I'm not saying, come on Randok. Come on Randok. Incredible.

One last thing I want to say about the Keystone Copsons episode is I love how much Kevin hates Syracusa. And we want Kevin to live. Too hot to die, Kevin Tann. So this was such a funny scene is he wants the Syracuse wants to go, Got to get confirmation they boned. Kevin mocking him asking him if you should call on the forensics team. Seeing the condoms and calling him murder, she wrote to summon him to look at the condom.

And then the way that fake Jay picks it up and is looking, you know, he's like volume, viscosity. I'm a man who's jacked off a lot. I'm familiar with what this should look like. This is not it. And then sniffing it. Kevin's reaction. What a season.

for strawberries on yellow jacket show. I could not believe. I mean, I feel like Brandy might say, I could have been a strawberry. Just like Jeff. All right. Yeah, and Syracuse is a guy who travels with his own latex gloves, looks like. Sounds great. Is Callie going to be the one who kills him?

Ooh, thereby locking herself into family that kills together. When is Shawna going to go to fucking, Camp. You know what I mean? And are Jeff and Callie coming with her? Well, I assume her next step would be to call Misty, but I have to assume Misty hands over her phone when she joins the cult. So maybe she'll reach out to, I don't know. All right. Maybe Walter will go find Sean. I mean, I don't know if it's better or worse for Shawna to be there. Like, you know, like, there's a part of me that wants to be like, well, if Shawna leaves Jeff and Callie alone, these dumb dumbs are going to do something stupid, but I'm like, Sean is doing plenty of stupid. but stuff. So I can't like really color the brains of the operation, the whole Sedecki family. Let's go to speaking of the honey cults. That and Lottie. We're going to do 96 and then present day. We see a bit more of like Lottie's prayer practice, right, which involves a lot of breath work and some light chanting, some call and response. Are you into it? Do you like to listen to the pine needles? I mean, this seems like guided meditation. I don't feel like there's anything wrong with

this part of it. It is the way in which Lottie is very invested in Shana's baby that I have a problem with. That connection is going to protect us and we need to nurture it, especially when a life is coming and we can't wait to meet him. Or when she's talking to the baby in utero and she's like, you're supposed to do that. And Chana's like, to bomb with a mother. What is wrong with you, Lottie? Back the fuck off. So that is my Lottie issue.

And then also, of course, I mean, Nat and Travis have their conference. that we knew was coming over Havi and when Travis storms out, who goes after him, Lottie. And I'm just sort of like, just sit down, play some cards. What are you doing, Lottie? Do we want them playing cards? I don't know. I'm not sure that leads to a happy place. You know what the prayer circle and specifically the chatter about the wind made me think of

was a friend of yours and mine, Brand Stark, really took me back to. Is that where we want to go? Yeah, it is. It took me back to a passage genuinely that I love from the first book of Game of Thrones and there's a version of it in the first season. No, stay, Brand commanded her. Tell me what you meant about hearing the gods. Orsha studied him.

You asked them and they're answering, open your ears, listen, you'll hear. Brand listened. It's only the wind, he said after a moment, uncertain. The leaves are rustling. Who do you think sends the wind, if not the gods? and that connection again between the elements around you, nature, but then something beyond, whether it's religious, supernatural, whatever framing you would put on it.

This whole sequence felt very significant. The number of participants, the way that over the course of the episode we watch on the, the Lottie is still there on the porch, beginning that effort. But what becomes a group prayer, a group chant and call, that then carries over across,

a classic yellow jackets TV, bit of static into Vans' living room in the present day. And like you said, then you go from something that could feel kind of empowering and wholesome, connecting to the world around you. The way that they're talking specifically about how this awareness and this sense, this state of being attuned makes them feel like awake and alive

for them to use language like that connects to what we were talking about earlier with the idea of rituals into belief, into religion. If you forge that kind of connection and then something happens and you think maybe Coach Ben's not there to say, hey, that's a coincidence, right? You think that there's a causation. Well, then what do you try to heed the next time you hear the wind? Yeah, of course. And like, you know, as we were talking about in the Achilla section, like leaving, let's say, religion outside of it and something, let's talk about something like less fraught like mythology, like the first thing we learn when we are like little nerds.

loving to learn about Greek mythology is this idea that like the Greeks concocted these stories to explain natural phenomenon. This is what a thunder and lightning storm is. This is why volcanoes erupt. This is why there's an earthquake. This is why the moon does what it does. This is why the sun does it what it does. So this idea of like, a framework to understand. Yeah. Being in, but specifically being in nature and trying to understand the movements of the natural elements and our lack of power and control that we have over them. But like, but how can we, again, to your point earlier, feel that control by making it a give and take relationship? I'm giving it something and it's giving something back to me and we are in an

equal and balanced relationship, which we are not, is what I would say. It's a connection that leads you to. Right. Exactly. So on the baby front then, you're going to change every You know, we talked previously in the baby shower episode about like what with Lottie calling the baby him and this clear sense from everything else we've seen with Lottie that Lottie has seen something. So what do you think Lottie has seen with Shana's baby? What is she not telling Shana? Does she know that there, that the others are out there and that Ben Linus is going to take the baby from Rousseau? she thinks that what I'm interested in because we've been tracking a lot over the last couple episodes in particular the moments where Lottie seems afraid in either timeline. And we get one in this episode,

right, when Lottie sees the antler shadows on the ground in the present day. When Lottie in the past is talking about the baby, she seems to be talking about it not only as important, but it's like a portal to good, to something that is bringing her like a sense of hope and possibility and almost like cheer. So that makes a thing. makes me really nervous. Like, what is there some sort of exchange? Is there maybe a welcoming? Is the baby something that allows them to gain access to another community? Something that they've told us, this is your password as a baby? I just, I don't know that Lottie is that deep into, I feel like we, I don't feel like there's a ton that we haven't seen that Lottie's seen. So I feel like it's her

interpreting things like the stag, you know, or like, like, like just various imagery that she's seen. I don't know that she's seeing like literal flashes of things. I think it has more to do with like hallways and malls and candles and altars and stags and stuff like that. And less to do with like a shot for shot sort of. I don't think that's how her visions work. We got this interesting email from Kaylee who and we got a couple other emails talking about how when Lottie first has her vision, which is in her baptism by Laura Lee, that moment in those visions

are intercut with Shauna trying to abort her baby. Like that's the back and forth. That's the connection between those two things. Kiley wrote, baby Jesus was born into a teen mom out in the wilderness. He is often referred to as the light of the world and the Christian tradition. Stags have also been used as a metaphor for Christ for centuries. I'm also curious that there is an allegory for the return of. of Javi and the resurrection of Jesus on Easter, which occurred less than a week before the airing

of the episode. Jesus was crucified and died and buried. Mary Magdalene, a believer, found that Jesus was resurrected. Everyone else thought he was dead. Mary Magdalene had a ton of lore and symbolism around her, but she is celebrated as a true disciple of Jesus. Van and maybe Thai are believers in Lottie's power and return Javi to the other, quote unquote, disciples. We've also, I mean, like there's this Christ sort of like mythos surrounding this infant who we did not know the sex of this baby. Lottie is very sure, but we don't know. There is, as we mentioned before, that Rosemary's baby sort of thing circulating it

where followers of Satan are very preoccupied with a pregnant woman and believe the Antichrist is coming. But there's a third option here. I mean, it doesn't just have to be Christ-nated-to-Christ. There's like plenty of other options. But there's also the, like, what if Shawna does lose the baby? If Shauna does lose the baby, this line of you're going to change everything still applies.

Because if Shauna loses the baby, it's trauma on top of trauma for all of these girls. But particularly Shauna, who is a character we've been tracking as like a potential rival leader figure for Lottie. So what would losing a baby after all of this? trauma due to someone who was already eating ears, eating pocket ears. You know what I mean? Yeah, this was definitely the episode where, you know, Shana and Nat have always been

on one side and Lottie on the other. We talk a lot about Nat versus Lottie in part because their plot lines are so entwined. But this was the episode, and you had introduced this possibility in the early days of the pod, but where I really, really, really started to feel certain that Shauna was actually the figurehead of that other clan, more so even than that. That Shauna is the one who is most fervently opposed to what Ladi represents, in part because of what feels like this deeply personal and disturbing obsession with her baby. I'm thinking of what you were saying about the baptism for Ladi. while that baptism, that sequence with Lottie and Lara Lee is so deeply rooted in our mind in terms of like this, this fulcrum point in the show, we had seen Lottie's connection to these visions before that, dating back even before the plane crash with the car crash with her parents when she's a young child. And then even something like the attic sequence in the cabin during the seance where Lani is speaking French and Jackie is trying on the flight of translate.

Like that happens before. I was definitely not saying that the baptism was the first time she had visions. I wasn't saying that. But like the depth of the vision, the way in which it's like this down the hallway, almost like birth canal imagery, like all of that felt connected. But no, I certainly wasn't saying that was the first time she had had a vision. Yeah. Anything else you want to say about we're going to talk about Shauna a bit more before we go?

I think we can go to the present day. Let's bring it to the present day. slight costume change for Nat, right? She's still in those fucking pants, which I don't think smell good at this point. But she's looking kind of great. Like the purple cardigan is now on. And then she's got this like really beautiful, very expensive looking like from anthropology sweater over it. Looking kind of great.

Lurking around trying to use those keys that she snatched last week. Cannot believe that Lottie hasn't asked for the keys back yet. yet. Big question about that. But before she gets into the cabinet with keys, she gets drawn into session by two of the other Heliotrope folks, right? Lise is there. Lisa's like, think of me like a mirror. We are giving our voice to our darkest thoughts. This is how we gain access to our deepest truth. So something we can circle back to in a second. Then Lottie lays hands on Nat. You know, Lottie loves laying hands. It says you can go deeper. And then Natalie notices her cut palm. And she asked,

What's, What'd you do there? Right? Lottie, like, makes an excuse. And I just love Juliette Lewis's delivery of like, what did you do? Like, she knows that Lottie's been out in the woods slicing her palm and offering up blood. If I were Lottie and I didn't want that, a person who knew that I had previously been inclined to slice my hand open to make blood sacrifices and hollowed out stumps. I might have just used an actual bandaid instead of like a piece of cloth a la at the 96 Wilderness game.

I might not have laid hands, you know? I might have kept my hands to myself, but that's not the Lottie way. Oh, boy, lotty. What did you think of the mirror line? That was fascinating. So interesting. I mean, like, our theories about Lisa aside, I like this idea of Nat who is like, feels very, like a very protective.

Juliette Lewis gave this quote. I can't source the exact interview and I apologize, but this week I watched a bit of an interview where she talked about the fact that, like, the other young women in the woods are much quicker to kill other people than she is Nat, but that Nat is slowly killing herself. And I was like, bro. But I think this idea of Nat as, like, a nurturer, someone who cares about other people, much more than she can't care for herself, but she can care for other people. She's already kind of, like, latched on to Lisa as very defensive of her.

So like this idea that she's like, think of me like a mirror like I, you know, listen, we are the day after the Mandalorian finale. Mallory and I are a little burned on like overspeculation. So I don't want to like over speculate and write a fanfic that doesn't come true. But I could see a scenario where Lisa is in some kind of trouble. And that is some sort of breaking, you know, not seeing her younger self in Lisa, something like that, that idea of being a. mirror. What do you think? Yeah, I think that it, I love that and I think that it's, it's rich when we think of the budding relationship between Nat and Lisa. It's rich when we think of these different versions of the characters, like the mirror of you that emerged in the wilderness

and especially in an episode like this where we hear Nat talking about, like, bring what they brought back with them. Like, one of the things that I'm most interested in tracking this season and have found most fascinating from various different characters is like, who is, embracing that and eager to rediscover it or hold on to it and who is afraid of it. Who is trying to repress it and keep it hidden? And like, even when we met adult Lottie for the first time, like, what did we, what were we hearing her talk about? That primal elemental self, right? There's a version of you that knows exactly who you really are and what you really want. A primal elemental self and there's nothing more painful than hiding that self. But then, like, also with Lottie, we're seeing this insistence inside of that same speech, subsequently in the session last week, that so much of what we maybe as viewers would say as part of Lottie's primal elemental self is not real, that people have been telling Lottie,

you need to distance yourself. She's medicating it. Yes. And now has grown to fear it, even though part of her entire, like, worldview, is organized around embracing it. Like that contradiction is, that tension is so fierce. I liked this idea. I wouldn't put Misty in this category.

And I wouldn't even put tie in this category. But so maybe it's appropriate that it's Shauna and Lottie. But this idea that they are like the soft, almost mirror inversion of who they were. Like the fact that she is like this woo woo guru who like does really doesn't do much. It doesn't have actual visions. is just sort of like spouting aphorisms and doing like weird little shadow versions of the animal-based burial rituals that she might have done out in the woods with like, you know,

eye bankers who are depressed or whatever it is that she offers here. And the idea that Sean is like hiding herself away in like softness and suburbia, I like this idea of like, I mean, the actresses I think have said that the antler Queen is not something, a title that belongs to just one character. So like there could, everyone could wear the antlers at one point. But I certainly feel like we think Shauna and Lottie might both have worn the antlers at some point been the queen. And the fact that these two queens, that sounds so like, yes, queen. But like these two queens are like blunting their antlers and hiding themselves away and becoming this like sad mirror version of the power that they felt in the woods. And that's something that

like the showrunners have talked about several times, this idea that the girls come back from this traumatic experience and sure, maybe they're safer here, no longer fending off the wilderness, but they have lost their access to that power that they felt in the wilderness. And they go back to a world 98, barely enlightened, but not as enlightened as a matriarchal cult thing that they formed in the woods, you know what I mean, in terms of like female power. So I think it's interesting. also just gave us one of the best lines in the run of the show from

Nat. Actually, before we go into the black recesses of my soul, I just need a minute. I'm going to start saying that to you before pods. Yeah. Just need a quick bathroom break before we go into recesses of my soul. Were you happy with what

Nat finds in the cabinet here, some paperwork, some phones, and Chekhov's Gun? How do you feel about it? I love literally getting Chekhov's Gun, as always. a delight. And for Nat of all the characters who is best with the rifle to be the one who stumbles upon that is certainly not an accident. So I'm waiting for that to come into play in a desperate and dire way. Who will be on the other end of it? I don't know. Hopefully not Walter

for your sake. The Lisa. Well, that would be terrible. That would be terrible. I have a Lisa question for you, but I'll come back to it with a, when we, when we chat about something else later. You had you had called this last week the idea that Lottie would be collecting and amassing the secrets from her followers. Classic cult moves, to be honest with you. Absolutely. And then for Nat to go out and in essence embarrass herself in front of everyone by like saying I have made this great discovery of how you have been used and for Lottie to say they know and all of them to say we handed this over willingly. Now on the one hand, that heightens our sensation. that they have bought into this fiction,

this, have opted to live into this universe that is not healthier or good for them. But on the other, it put Nat on her back foot in a way that then sets up everything that happens after. We get, like, one of the things I love about the show is when we get characters who are opposed to each other voicing the same idea.

So, you know, Nat says, like, really desperately, her delusions have hurt people. And Lottie herself said that to us. last week, like, can't happen again. Can't happen again, right? And so it's not even that they disagree about the outcome that they want to avoid. It's that the way they're going about it is so opposed. Yeah, there's shortly thereafter, there's the exchange of, you know what he was going, talking

about Travis, you know what he was going through, you started it. And she goes, maybe that's true, but I need to know, right? She's not disagreeing. She's like, I own everything that happened. And while at the same time she sometimes shreds into like, that's not real, that wasn't real sort of thing. So Lottie, like, is desperate to know what happened with Travis because she feels guilt, I think as well she should, of being complicit in his death. We are still curious what happened. Like, as we mentioned before, I tend to believe her version of events until the Laura Lee part.

and then I don't know what that looks like. Somehow, Palpatina Richard, no, somehow Travis got hoisted way higher in the air. You know what I mean? Like when she was claiming the button wasn't working, all this sort of stuff like that. So something happened that I think probably she doesn't understand, like is not aware of what happened while she was seeing Laura Lee there. But she needs to know it was on Travis's mind. And so then we get this like light therapy moment. This is a therapeutic practice that is some people say it's harmful.

Some people say it will, you know, trigger great revelations. But she's using light therapy. The light going on like going off to make you think of Randog, where you like, well, this is just come on. Everything makes me think of Randog. Yeah. And so Nat flashes to this other part of something we've already seen, which is like her overdose. We got a flash of it earlier with like the medics around her and what looked like Travis in the background. Right.

So she what appears to have happened is that Travis was like somewhat on the straight and narrow. A job was dating someone, et cetera, et cetera. And not showed up to fuck it up because she missed him, et cetera, et cetera. They go on a bender. She says what always happens. this is their cycle. Just the despairing. And like the fact, okay, so the fact that this is like a self-destructive cycle that they were on.

Devastating when you think of them as like kids, right? But also it's never going to happen again, right? What always happens but is never going to happen again because Travis is dead. Right. And so like as destructive as that cycle was, it's also gone. And so Nat has an overdose. And as we've been talking, as Travis mentioned in that Lottie flashback we got to Travis's final night, this idea of a near-death experience and what you see. And he says, you saw something.

And something that hadn't occurred to me last week is like that was probably what he was talking about when she nearly froze the death in snow and she saw the mall. Right? Like that's a near-death experience for Lottie. Nat has a near-death experience and says all this stuff about the darkness. that we heard of the top of the episode. We brought it back, Trave. We brought it back with us. We have to go back.

But she sees, okay, this, this is Yellow Jackets' writers playing with fire, right? Because she sees the crash. It's different. They're all roasty-toasty. And she says, we didn't make it. None of us. Then she says, we weren't alone out there. The Antler Queen wanders into the wreckage.

In a later flash, the Antler Queen has Juliet, Louis's face. But oh my God, why would the Yellow Jackets writers engage with the they were dead all the time theory that plagued lost from start to finish? How do you feel about this? Or is this a brave, brilliant move? What do you think? I don't know. I can't decide. I'm so, we're recording off the screener before this airs. I'm so fascinated to see what kind of conversation the sparks in the fan base because I think that like the fact that the showrunners have been so. so game and like to talk about the theories and have acknowledged them with such affection, even to the point of like putting that little message to the fan base on the citizen detective

page. There's not a single way you can say they don't know what kind of conversation the sparks to the point where I wonder if it's like a wink to that just not being what this is. But I don't know. Like they have to know what kind of conversation this is going to spring. bark. So, like, that wink felt like, that kind of winking attitude felt like it was true when when I think it was Jen, one of the girls says, like, maybe this is the ghost of hobby. That feels like a winking reaction to like a fan theory. But this is much more extreme.

Different. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. And like this, okay, so we won't get all the way into lost in this moment, but like this idea of they're dead all the time and the island is purgatory was like one of the strongest theory threads throughout all of lost. To this day, the bane of the existence of many people who worked on lost. And what is true is that occasionally they would have characters on the show say that. Like, we're all dead and we're all in hell or we're all dead and, you know, like, you know, blah, blah. So this is where we are. Something I want to say about these adult Travis scenes is, I don't have any solid proof for this. I might reach out to Showtime to see if they'll confirm this.

They might not. I don't know. But the Redditors seem convinced that the show is using Kevin Elvis, who plays young Travis, dubbing his voice into adult Travis's scenes. If that were the case, it would explain some of the weird disjointedness I feel when I watch these scenes and the way the editing is all choppy, it would make a lot of sense to me and help me reconcile this sort of like weird uneasy feeling I get around these adult Travis scenes. But either way. Harrowing stuff for Nat. Oh my God. And just like you said,

just so devastating. Even just the positioning in front of what turns out to be a painting in a cheap motel room and you think for a minute like you're looking at the sunset and the ocean. and we love a Ocean Vista here at the House of Our slash the Prestige TV podcast. I was fascinated, especially because we've tracked, we've talked a lot about how Nat positioned Travis is a skeptic. And whether that was a genuine failure to truly know and understand and accept, we talk a lot about acceptance between these characters, the person who was closest to her of anybody in her life,

or whether it is a coping mechanism because everything that has happened has been so deeply painful and so to hear Nat say we brought it back, Trav, we brought it back with us. And again, like then the ensuing line is the whole time there was something,

some darkness out there with us. And you're like, whoa. Nat, one of the most resisting characters on some level has believed or feared this too, but then to then have the next line And this is written. Or in us. Or in us.

For the characters to voice. Yes. That very question that we spend so much time talking about. And like we've we've asked a few times, well, do we think we'll get these answers or when or what shape? A moment like that or in us, it still is. I'm content if the show lives in that space forever. Because it's so much more. The most interesting thing is how the characters respond to those questions, not ultimately what the answer is.

Yeah, it doesn't matter. Honestly, it doesn't matter if it's like a mass delusion or an actual spiritual event. Right. Because what happened happened, right? Yes. That said, when Lottie sees the shadow of the Antler Queen on the floor, what do you, what's your read on it in that moment? Is she seeing the version of herself that she fears returning to? Is she seeing another figure? I think it's so meaningful that it happens as Nat lays her head in her lap and we flashed not to Juliette Lewis but to Sophie Thatcher, right? And I could be wrong. It feels like this is only a second time, but maybe it's happened more often because the other time is when Shauna stabs Adam and then all of a sudden it's young Shauna there, right?

So if you know, Elise is there and not Melanie Lindski. And so this idea of this moment where the girls, you are forced to reckon with the inner hurt child of these women, this trauma that was inflicted on them that was never healed, obviously, for all of them. And then, yeah, so I think it's, I took it as, again, I don't think if Lottie was ever an antler queen, I don't think she was the only antler queen. So it could be her scared of like a shon. a figure or something like that. But it makes more, it's more satisfying if she's scared of herself, if she's scared of her self, you know? Right. Right. Yep. Is it Misty O'clock? Speaking of being scared of a version of yourself. Yeah. I'm feeling great this week, honestly, because with love and respect and apologies to Crystal, her being dead makes me feel like

Walter has a chance. So. Oh my God. Crystal died so Walter could live. Wow. Wow. Wow. Okay, clear parallels, clear parallels. Amazing Walter episode. Just an amazing. Between Walter and Crystal slash Kristen, right? Which is like we're playing games. We're making confessions. We're confronting the darkness, et cetera, right?

So let's talk about Misty and Crystal and the games they're playing and how Misty's three people that she would invite to dinner are played out, duh. Slumber party. Oh, slumber party. Slumber party. Slumber party. She wants to spend the whole night. Hanging out.

Okay. Plato. Plato, duh. Young, apparently hot, Jack Kavorki. I just want to let you guys know that Mallory did Google image search this for us. I hope some SEO kings and queens out there have their articles ready with this is what young Jack Kovarkian look like. Because I know that people are going to be a Google it on Friday night. And who's the last person on Misty's list, Mallory?

The way that I gasped. What she said. I gas for you. Eric knees. And then just in case you were like, wait, the Eric, is she talking about the Eric? I think she's talking about OG Real World New York, Eric. One of the most formative crushes in many of our lives. If we grew up at a certain time, we get a helpful, the grind call out from Crystal to confirm.

Speaking of a worthwhile Google image search, I mean. My goodness. Eric, just a very special person for a lot of young folk back in the 90s. This was amazing. Eric Niece, King of the Bandana. I just want to let you know that like I watched the grind all the time and like I was not a child who liked dance. But it was like, he just was very special. It was just important. Very, very special. By the way, when I talked for like, 45 minutes about the Johnny Banana's backpack, the CTE Bananas challenge episode, didn't mention at the time that, of course, this was MTV Paramount Showtime, you know, Paramount Family Synergy. But now I'm tracking these MTV mentions across the Yellow Jackets universe. I knew Eric Nees from Real World. I knew him from the grind.

And then I was like, I'm pretty sure he's been on like one of these Real World Road Rules challenge sort of situation. So I had to click over to his Wikipedia to confirm because I am not a scholar of those like you are. And once I saw that he had, I was like, this is going to be primo mal time. So there you go. Eric Nees. Thank you, Misty. Crystal slash Kristen draws a card. Sends her off on poop bucket duty.

Just quick aside on this, right? Okay. So like, first we see Akila draw the card. And this is right after Akela was visiting with Nugget And then she hides Nugget because that bitch Mari Sorry, I don't like calling women bitches That caustic personality Mare walks Walks in and

And Akila's like, please don't eat my pocket mouse nugget. Why would you name it after food? I don't know, but that's okay. And Akeel looks so frightened About pulling this card As does As is Crystal

when she pulls it, disproportionately upset to poop bucket duty, I think. So I feel like it's meant to help lay track for this thing that we feel is inevitably true, which is like you draw the queen, you're going in the pit, you know, sort of situation. But it is a... There's palpable fear. Something we should say for pit girl, whatever pit girl happens, it's not going to happen until winter number two, right?

Because, first of all, the evolution of the clothing is one thing, but also they cannot dig a pit. They can't even dig a grave. They cannot dig a pit in this winter. The ground is too hard. So we're headed into...

They're going to come back so they can get more fur. Yeah. So they're going to like spend a bountiful spring in summer and maybe gentle autumn feasting on... Sounds lovely. The fauna and leave their cannibal ways behind them. but then winter's going to come back, you know.

So. So always right eventually, you know. All right. Misty and Crystal are sharing so much, so many dark truths. And, and, and, and- Missy likes to watch her parents fuck. Totally fine and normal. Crystal's like, that's great.

What a healthy expression of your sexuality. Do you like the lights on or off when you're trying to curiously ejaculated to a condom? So anyway. And then. Misty bumps right up against the limit of this sharing circle, which is you do not tell Crystal that you destroy the black box just so that you could feel needed and wanted. And Misty realizes immediately she made a mistake, tries to correct it. I love the Crystal's like you're not that good of an actress.

Rough. But also if I'm Crystal and I'm standing right on the edge of a cliff, I'm not going to tussle with Misty in that moment. I'm not going to push Misty to anything. What happens next to me seems clearly an accident, but also an accident that I would blame Misty for. An accident in the middle of a impassioned murder threat. I'll fucking kill you. Yes, it's true that she did not reach her hands on and push Crystal over the end.

No shoving. But she was threatening to murder her in that moment. Mirror of Eve. Absolutely. I'm fine with ravines, by the way. If you're counting my, like, crevice crevice, but you love a ravine. I love a ravine, yeah. This is the cliff that no eyes led tie to, right?

Like, definitely. That was a nighttime scene. This is daytime. But that's notable. Like, this question that we have of whether this force, this darkness is drawing the characters to a certain kind of outcome that need, that we've heard, and neither of us speak French, but this need for blood. Is that just the product of the fight that they had?

Or did whatever forces at work pull crystal over that cliff? I can't tell you how closely I was looking at every fucking branch there, every tree trunk looking for cave openings and the rock face. We got so many interesting shots of them like looking over the edge. Like can I find the exact root system that Hopi drew somewhere here? I'll be eager to revisit that on the big screen in full HD. Do you think Nat, in addition to being like upset that her bloody pant charade was exposed, is also upset to be supplanted as the artist in the cabin because she was like,

Coach Ben's like, wow, your map is pretty good. But, I mean, it looks like dog shit compared to what hobby can do. Let's be real. It's done. It's done. Did you think of succession when we got the Kristen Crystal name reveal? I was thinking to cousin Greg, you know, in the initial Craig call. And he's like, I'll answer to both.

No, I was not thinking. about Cousin Greg. But something, and speaking of dark confessions, Mallory and I have already admitted to each other and now we will admit to all of you, dear listeners, that when Misty makes her way down into the ravine and performs CPR, which we've seen her do before,

perform CPR to the tune of staying in life, and blood literally gurgles out of Crystal slash Kristen's mouth, I laughed out loud. This is my Yellowjackets dust dust us. You know, these deeply disturbing moments that we find ourselves like, it's like you feel it's like when you laugh at a funeral. You know, there's the nervous laughter. This whole sequence was so sad, Joe.

Of course it's sad, but like I also laughed from the Jackie. Like, you know, there's like, you have to. Good old snacky. I laugh. I left from they cut up at him. Like I'll, you know what I mean? It's just like, yeah. Yeah, of course.

Absolutely. That's just a nice like blood spray on Shana's neck because they're catching. up with old bell. This is the social contract that you have to make when you engage with yellow jackets. I agree. I agree. Crystal seemed lovely. You know I love musicals. I'd have loved to hang out with her. Crystal, the pistol. Dude, this is sad. And especially, like, you think of the impact something like this has on Misty, right? To go from a moment, like, do you know how lucky we are? Some people never find someone they trust enough to share their deepest secrets with that. So I feel about podcasting with you, Joe. And you go from that to the look on Crystal's face when Misty revealed the truth. I was really, I mean, I'm not glad that Crystal died, but I was glad that we got the reminder of what Misty did with the transponder.

Because like we talk about and we'll talk about it in a minute when Walter is basically like, you kill people. I think it's hot. I'm into it. Yes. It's like, are there other reasons they haven't been found? Probably. But Misty, yes. She's responsible for all of this. No, and I mean, Christina Ritchie said something in an interview at the beginning of the season

where she was like, there's a really good reason why Misty is alone. Like she doesn't deserve to have people around her. And I'm like, I understand that, but for my buy-in in the show, I also need to root for Misty. You know what I mean? And so, like, is she a horrible murder? Yes. Are all the people in Succession assholes? Yes.

Did Dexter kill people? Yes. You know what I mean? Like, I have, like, this is my buy-in. Yeah, this is the proposition. Absolutely. It's the same thing with Walter, right? When he's like, I find the fact that you're a charming potential serial killer,

so interesting. Let me go. Just as you predicted, Joanna, killing spree with you, he doesn't say the second part. But I think it's implied. Oh, he wants to and let them do it. Absolutely. Okay. Let us remember that in that FBI interrogation scene, he, like, again, as you pointed out at

the time, he has like a little bone saw. Like, I don't know what that's doing in there. Also, are you tracking his gastrointestinal distress? There was the irritable bowel. Can't eat what we thought was a ploy to get away

from Randy for a second but maybe not right and then yeah can't eat can't eat beans so seem one of the same

to me did Walter shit in the piss bucket I'm traveling Walter I love it is Walter

hobby is that your question okay Walter wants a goat cheese shop with a

female goat named Billy there's a non-zero chance that Barry Manelone is his

biological father and he's $175, 000 in stock in Taco Bell has never been to one Misty does

not like monkeys and things for asking the wrong questions about the moon landing. Whoever wrote this 10 out of 10, no notes. Chefkis. We get a fun little musical connection. Just as we did last week with the Evita, we get a little musical connection between the Crystal storyline and the Walter storyline in that staying alive of the Bee Gees is playing on the car radio as they're driving in the rain and the forest. And now we know why.

Makes her think of accidentally, but maybe not feeling crystal. So, stay alive, Walter, please. Okay. Okay, also, I don't think anyone listening to his podcast thinks this, but I just need to lay this out on the table. Media Literacy 101 is that you cannot speculate with me that a character isn't real if other characters are talking to them, okay? So like Walter has been talking to people, the person at the motel,

Randy, like all this sort of stuff. Walter is real. Nat calls him a Hardy Boy. That's just like another check, you know. Same thing with Crystal. Mari goes up and says like, you too. Yeah. Yeah.

Crystal's been talking about, yeah, it's, they're real people. They are connected, but they are real people who really like Misty. Except for the fact that they're all dead and they're all ghosts. Other than that. Yeah, they all died in that plane crash. But other than that. Crystal, Crystal found her line. Walter has not found his line yet, right?

He's in for all of it, right? Your friendships are a little more complicated than most, right? Kidnapping, Colts, death, Adam Martin. I love when he says you slipped on this one, right? Like, he's just sort of like... You know that hurt. That hurt, Misty. Yeah, it hurt, but also he's like, you made a tiny error, but I know you're smarter than this generally.

It's like a compliment. Yeah. I know what you're capable of, so I'm just disappointed. But that's okay. And then she goes, you think I'm capable of murder? Misty, you're not that good of an actress as has been previously established. And he says, sure, you're charming and impulsive, which are the traits of most serial killers, except you pull. it off. Look, my grandmother was convicted of killing my grandpa Joe. All right, so this runs in

the family for Walter. Passion for murder. I love this. What I wrote down on my notes, and I wrote it here in this shared document we're looking at, is like Mr. Darcy and Bridget Jones Diary, he says he likes her just as she is, regardless of her extra curricular activities, and I believe him. There's a lot of people who have been thinking that, like, Walter is here to, like, catch Misty out. Like put her in jail for her. No, he's a joiner. He's a joiner.

He wants her. He wants this life. Still a little hung up on the Sherlock Moriarty choice. But I choose to believe that they are allies, not foes. I was interested in the like there's only ever one rule win line from Walter, which on the one hand totally tracks, right? If you're a citizen detective, you're looking to solve the case. case, but there was a like, there was a bloodlust in that that I don't think we had heard from him

before. 100%. That's the one moment where I was like. Just the Rickard Stark in the yard of winter fell. Yeah. Yeah. To fight, win. Oh, by the way, I just want to go back in time.

If I know you were talking about book brand, I would have been much more enthusiastic than I was than your reaction to tell me you want to talk about Brand Stark. Okay. I'm going to go now. He calls her, he says he like in search of a serial killer. So let's examine this theory that's been burbling for a couple of seasons. which is like, is Misty actually a serial killer? Okay?

We saw her kill Jessica that we know. We saw her crowd crystal off a cliff that we know. While threatening to kill her. Yes. I'll fucking kill you, right? Okay, great. We know that she watched a rat drown as a child. That's a serial killer 101, right?

Like harming pets. She's got like a kill room. Not great, right, in her basement. Yep. She literally poisoned everyone in season one in the woods, right? Season one blind date, working really hard to get that blind date back into her house. So my question is, do you think she was trying to kill her blind date in season one? Well, that makes me worried for Walter again.

I think, I tend to think not. So the theory is that there's like a whole bunch of other killing that Misty has done that we haven't seen. I tend to think not. I tend to think that yes, of course, she's capable of murder. She's cold and calculated. She has a plan for everything. But I don't, as some people do, think she's the precipity poisoner. And thank you.

I just wanted to say that town again correctly so that New Jersey doesn't get mad at me. But like some people are like in the citizen detective board, there is the precipity poisoner. Is this misty? I don't think so. I think she is capable of killing. I think her threshold for killing someone is much lower than yours or mine. but I don't think she's got like a basin full of bodies that we don't know about.

What do you think? I think she just wanted to fuck that guy in season one. Yeah, me too. And introduce him to her parrot. Caligula. Who's watching Caligula? Who's watching Steve? Who's watching Sammy?

Simone. Oh, my God. Really, a upsetting. Who's watching setting series of questions? Sammy. And why is Ty not checking in? Okay. Missy is not able to.

accept this, again, Walter's feeding right into this season-long theme of accepting the dark site. So he is like, I'm here to accept all of you and join you and be your equal and we will murder people together and it will be great. And Missy's like- I'll listen to musicals in my Volvo. Honestly, just the dream. Not the murder part, but musicals in the Volvo. I love a Volvo. I love a rainy, Forest Drive and a Volvo. Yes. Okay. Missy's like, no. I'm out. I got it. whatever this is, you and me, I'm done. I feel like she's...

You need pretty quickly. Yeah, I was surprised by that. Yeah. But I feel like he's off, he's making a plan for his return. Absolutely. Because I'd like to give the love story of Misty and Walter, the benefit of the doubt, my interpretation was that she was, like, worried

because the last time she admitted her darkness of someone, that person, her bestie, wound up dead. One last thing I need to say about Crystal and Misty that I did mention before is that they have this cute little pinky swear Kiss the kiss the hand ritual. They did it after they were handling

the poop bucket and that is an absolute no for me. I had some some concerns and questions about that. Terrible. Absolutely terrible.

Are you more or less worried for Walter now that Crystal has died? I remain deeply, deeply concerned for our beloved Walter but for I like your read

that this at least buys him some time. I do think that I do think that he's ultimately doomed. I do. Does that make him too close to Adam? If he's just a guy who likes one of our yellow jackets,

not because he's connected to the mystery, but just because he's a guy who likes her, then isn't that just the Adam story? I think a lot of people by the end of the run who are close to our characters are going to have terrible things happen to them. Sadly. All right.

I had one more question for you. Protect Jeff at all costs. One more question for you about this Misty Walter stretch because Misty is, astounded to learn that this is Lottie's place, which was, I thought, notable. Oh, she's mad at herself for missing this, right? For missing it, right? She says, I kept tabs on everybody, and I mean everybody, but it must not mean everybody because

I miss this, how. So on the one hand, this just tells us how far off the grid Lottie really has been, but also the emphasis on everybody. And I mean everybody. Like, we were always wondering who else made it back? that makes me think there's like more people in the mix maybe than we've been anticipating. Well, she knows where Van is, right?

Like, she's going to know where Van's video store is. So that's helpful. But yeah, I agree. I'm like, I want to see inside Misty's like file cabinet because then I will know who came back from the forest. And if hobby is indeed Adam. Okay. That's probably the main, honestly,

evidence that Missy would have known. Yeah, she would have been like, hobby! The second she walked in. Shawna, how could she was hobby? I have a photo of his tattoo in my folder. What is this? Okay.

We're in with Shauna. Shana goes into labor. And Shana and Ty have this fascinating conversation in the snow about teams. Carlos, can you play this for us? Are I supposed to say, I'm sorry? You're supposed to be my friend. You're supposed to be on my side, not team Lottie. There's one fucking team, Shana, and we're all on.

I can't think that's still true. Look, I know that you're freaked out. Oh, don't do that. This is not about me being scared. What is it about? You joined their fucking prayer club! It's not like that. I'm only in it because of van.

And Lottie... She's obsessed with my baby, Tye! Okay, so Lottie's excited about the baby. We all are. If anyone should be excited, it's me. But I'm rightfully freaking the fuck out about having a baby in the middle of the fucking woods. And you splash, having a bunch of psychos praying for me

in some weird fucking tree cult isn't making my life any easier. I don't need your fucking prayers. I need you to have my back. I do. But Shana, for the first time, in a really long time, I'm not afraid to fall asleep. And yeah, you're right. It's probably not because I listen to the pine needles or whatever.

But I'm going to take what I can get, and I'm not going to apologize for that. Ow! That's a really cool way for me to end that clip. You're welcome. All right. And then Shana goes into little. labor and we get some magical mystical wind situation and a blizzard is a coming. Take me through this.

I mean, you already alluded to this when talking about Shauna as a potential rival queen sort of situation. But what else do you want to say about this exchange? Yeah, I think we've covered a lot of it already. I think that the team talked, this positioning really of team Shauna more even than team Nat versus team Lottie here. These warring clans that we've discussed in the show description, split coming when. We'll post baby now. Whatever happens feels like the inciting incident for that divide. So what will that look like who will be in which camp?

I think we're going to find out really, really soon, like maybe next episode, which I wasn't necessarily anticipating before this sequence, but now feels very probable. I mean, next week's episode is, I mean, not next week's, sorry. Two weeks from now. Yes. Yes. Hyate is coming. Two weeks from now. that episode definitely

the birth episode like for sure it has to be yeah absolutely so yeah and then you know again like this this coming up the storm the wind we've chatted about this mystical wind

but also if we think back to something like the mystical gust that knocked the snow on top of the Jackie brisket like the way that the weather is entwined with these key moments coming in through the window

and they use the same sound design on all those moments. And that's why it's like mystical wind. It's not just like a strong gust of wind. There was something that was like felt physical and tangible about it here that again, if like spooky had just appeared. Yeah. Would you have been surprised?

Yeah. Yeah. No. Exactly. Like it was sort of hurting them in a way towards something. We got this interesting email from Brie who really long, really interesting email. This is just a small part. But Brie wrote, which brings me to religion.

and religious trauma, specialty of mind as a therapist. The show is definitely playing with a real or spiritual slash supernatural in a way that reminds me of how haunting of Hillhouse, again, used ghosts, are the ghosts real, or is it just trauma? Spoiler alert, it's both, but also the ghosts were 100% real, a choice made in the end when the house blah, blah, blah. But throughout that show and throughout this show, I think we're meant to be questioning. And it's meant to be on that sort of like Buffy Vampire Slayer level of like, what if we

literalize your high school monsters? What if we literalize the violence of young women towards each other? You know what I mean? Like that's what this show is doing. One last comedy beat for me in this episode, which is as the girls go out to call and Travis and Ben to call for Ty and for Shana and Misty goes, Chris, I like. Got to cover your tracks. So hard.

And then we've mentioned all the rest, that the Laude starts to lead this sort of prayer call and response and that Ty starts echoing it out in the woods and they make it back in the end. And we end on Shauna screaming as she goes into labor and mother by dancing plays this out. Twist, I was waiting for Javi's friend, the hatch lady, to scoop Shauna into one of her tree tunnels. But now they made it back to the cabin. So maybe next. Maybe next week. All right. Theory Corner, not much here.

just to say that the cast apparently has said that the last three episodes are really different. And I have no idea what that means at all. I wonder what that means. I have no idea. Some people are speculating that we're going to get like a whole backstory, like across the sea and lost. A whole backstory of like what Reddit likes to call Cabin Daddy, the guy in the cabin, right, like to get his whole story. We know that there's like a twin peaks moment with missing the opening credits. So like a sort of misty Walter musical Fantasia sort of situation.

Your dream. Just for Joanna. I don't know. I don't know what it means. Are we all in one timeline and all in another? Like, you know, I have no idea. But it's interesting to think about. Again, I'm a little Mando burned.

I'm trying not to speculate too hard. Then there's also very interesting exchange that happened on Twitter where Ashley Lyle, co-creator the show, says there were nine main Epps in season two. And a fan said main question mark. And then Ashley says, never say never to bonus Epps. We don't know what that means at all. But Mallory and I have been wondering why there are only nine episodes this season. We don't know. We have no inside information from Showtime or anything like that about like interstitial episodes like they had with euphoria between season one and season two.

A holiday special. I don't know what holiday we would be celebrating Warbur Day. I don't know. But that is just tantalizing and its possibilities. Intriguing. We also got this really long, interesting email from Aden about the mercury poisoning theory that has been sort of floating around. Aidan lays it out with like a ton of different lengths. Great theory email about where the plane crashed, how there's volcanic soil there,

how elements in that soil can cause hallucinations, which is the mess. Mad as a Hatter, sort of that idea, the Matt as a Hatter comes from the chemicals in the hatting, the haberdasheries and how that would drive people to see things, hallucinate. And when I read that from Aiden and I was like, mad as a hatter, why don't we have more Alice and Wonderlanderland imagery in the show? And then I was like, of course, we already have had the Queen of Hearts card is an important thing. But also, shout out the subreddit. They pointed out that I, what I said that I thought the table of girls in the mall in Lottie's Vision last week looks like was like the last supper with

Laura Lee in like the Jesus position. But here's a screen grab that Reddit put up of Laura Lee with like she's wearing a blue shirt. She's got a black ribbon tie in her hair with her little blonde hair. Classic Alice. So this is like classic Mad Hatter tea party vibes of the girls in the mall. It's just something to like think about, you know, down the hatch, down the rabbit hole. Absolutely, yeah, down the rabbit hole, all of the animal imagery, the queen of hearts, the other playing cards. That's, that's compelling, definitely. But yeah, I just want to read the very end of Aden's email because this one's for Mallory.

So Javi is alive in an abandoned mine shaft and naturally heated earth. He's eating old cans of beans waiting for the snow to thaw so he can return. Well, Hobby's back. But, yeah. Before we go, best needle drop of the episode, Mallory Ribid. You know, I'm going with the opener. What's up? That's mine too.

That was just fantastic. My revulsion for countercrumbs aside, I just shrieked 25 years. Absolutely true. Why did I think of this before? It's so good. We talked about a lot of the lost stuff, but obviously we're going to do it throughout every episode.

We have to go back corner, lost corner. I will just say that like in Lost Season 1, lock and boon out in the jungle, someone takes a fall at first, Locke pretends something else happened. This is very similar to Misty and Crystal here. Good call. Always thinking about my guy, Boone.

You know what I mean? Ian Summerholder. Anything else you want to say on the last front that we haven't already mentioned? No. You're just waiting for a Russo to show up. Yeah, just can't wait for the baby to be named Alex. Hobbes and Dragons at gmail.com. this episode was produced by the long-suffering Carlos Sherbaoga, who does so much good work for us.

And we'll be back in two weeks with more yellow jackets, but you can hear us all over the prestige feed. Over the Ringerberg is covering the Mandalorian. If you're going through withdrawals, we will see you all in two weeks time. Bye.