The Prestige TV Podcast - ‘Yellowjackets’ Season 2, Episode 6 Recap

Episode Date: May 5, 2023

Mallory and Joanna break down ‘Yellowjackets’ Season 2, Episode 6: "Qui." They break down everything from Callie and Shauna’s interrogation to Misty’s enjoyment of being “famous’ on Lottie’s compound. They also discuss Shauna, Van, and Tai finally joining the rest of the characters and the tragic ending to the episode. Hosts: Joanna Robinson and Mallory Rubin Associate Producer: Carlos Chiriboga Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Hey, Molly. Magnum's all day, baby. I should have known you'd go with a Randog quote. You actually are wearing a kind of lavender-esque sweatshirt. You can fit in with the cold today. Yeah, I'm prepared for my wellness retreat. Just some rest and relaxation. Just some light honey.

I'm in Chuck 70 high tops, though, not Birkenstocks, just in case you were wondering. glad to hear it. I was quite concerned. We're going to talk about season two episode six of Yellow Jackets, Cui. Before we get into all of that, it's a real heavy episode. And we're going to talk about all of that. But we want to first do some just quick programming reminders to let you know that if you want to hear us talk about slightly, ever so slightly lighter subject matter, you can hear us talk about magical weapons over on the ring of reverse feed for quite a lengthy period of time. When Adam saw it pop up on his feet

and clicked in, he said, this is the length of a Lord of the Rings extended edition. But he listened to it in one night, and he said it was great. What a precious gemstone Adam is. So that's something that we do. We'll be talking about Guardians of the Galaxy.

You can always find us over on the Ring of Verse. Here in the Prestige Veed, there's the regular succession. covers going on. And then also, Rob Honey and I did an episode of Love and Death, the three-episode premiere of Love and Death over in this very feed where you are right now. So how can folks make sure they listen to all of that, Mallory, and keep in touch with us?

Oh, Joe, I'm so glad you asked. The first thing that I would recommend is that you follow the pod. Follow the pod on Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts. I would also recommend that you follow all of us. Prestige folks, ringer verse folks, the whole crew, the whole ringer family

on the social media platform of your choosing. And, and! Do you have further thoughts, inquiries, theories, Apple thoughts?

Send us an email. Hobbits and Dragons at gmail.com. What do you think Randy would want the inbox name to be? Oh, um, um,

Magnums and berries at gmail.com. I was going to say strawberry lotion at gmail.com. And snacks. That's right. Strawberry lotion and snacks at gmell.com. I ate all the fritos at gmail.com. We did get an apple email this week, by the way. I mean, we were constantly forever getting apple emails.

But one of the apple emails we got this week was about how Granny Smith apples are more shelf stable than all the other apples. And maybe perhaps that's why I like them. They last longer. So, you know, and then there were someone else who called me a Mazda for liking them. So it's, it's, you know, six and one and a half a dozen. Season two, episode six of Yellow Jackets. Cui, we are not spoiling, obviously, anything beyond this episode.

We haven't seen anything beyond this episode. So that is your spoiler warning. Everything up to episode six. This episode is written by Karen Joseph Adcock and Amani Rosa and directed by Liz Garbus. Liz has directed episodes of Handmaid's. a bunch of docu series, true crime shows and movies. She produced, there was that like Sarah Lawrence doc about sort of like a sex wring-cult thing that happened in Sarah Lawrence that I watched a little bit of she produced.

So this is like something that's been on her mind, some culty true crime stuff. Qui, the word, qui means who in French, en Francie. So I really hope that Cabin Guy actually ghost wrote this episode. Well, I'm going to start calling him for Rojaca from now on. I felt Cabin guy's presence a few times, so wouldn't roll it out. Unreliable narrator hallucinator count is pretty low this week, but it's pretty devastating, and it is centrally Shauna for the half of the episode, essentially, the back half of the episode. I don't think anyone else was not, that's plenty, honestly.

I guess we can put Ben in there for the porting into another daydream. Yes. Yeah, but that's all part of the same. It's true. Labor plot. We love Yellow Jackets and we love having fun with some of like the weird and gory stuff that happens on Yellow Jackets because some of it seems so like outsized and bananas. We recognize that what happens in this episode is a different tone altogether because

this is something that women grapple away. all the time. And so we are going to cover this episode, reserving that storyline for the end. So if we are our standard loopy, idiotic selves for a while, that is what we're going to do. And then we're going to sort of reserve the end to take a look at it from a slightly different point of view.

Let's start with emails and corrections department. really quick. We went straight to the source Showtime because there was this big mystery. The subreddit was convinced, all this thing was going on, that there was a secret 10th episode of this season.

People were gathering clues. Showtime says men no. In French and in English, no. It is only nine episodes we promised just nine. So this is episode six, so we have three more episodes to go after this. Are you learning

French because of yellow jackets, much like Carolina learned Swedish to head to the Gojo retreat. At the Gojo retreat. I'm actually learning Swedish. I know whatever French I'm using, I kind of know. I'm actually learning Swedish because we're going to Sweden. Don't leave my side. You and I are going to Sweden.

I need you for Afika. I need to, I just need a little bit of Sweden. Swedish, so I'm not like full-blowns. Joe, we will be talking about the finale. This connects to your point about the math sleuthing that you did. We will be covering the finale of this year television show from Europe. Pack in our podcast. Very special.

Very, very special. We got a lot of Wendigo emails, a ton of Wendigo emails. Wendigo is a mythological creature, I think, of Algonquin origin. and I know it from the television docu-series charmed. Just kidding, but that is where I first learned about a Wendigo. I'm not taking what I learned from that show to the bank, though. So, you know, it's associated with cold wind tree climbs. It is a spirit that will possess people.

It is connected to cannibalism. There are a lot of data points here connecting a Wendigo to what we're seeing here. I don't know that it's literally going to be that, but I think it's definitely sort of worth thinking about any, any Wendigo thoughts or feelings, Mallory. When you pointed out the volume of emails on this front, did a little research and wow, yeah, it's really fits. Yeah, it's a lot.

My goodness. We also did our best to sort of analyze Vans, you know, video store of Easter eggs, but I did miss a copy of Rosemary's baby that was in one of the VHS. X or as your baby obviously talked about foreign context to Shana. So that was one thing. And we missed. We got confirmation that yes, Kevin Alvas, the actor who plays young Travis, does dub the voice of adult Travis.

And we don't fully understand why. But that is something that the actor himself confirmed on a podcast. So fascinating. What do you make of this conversation between Sophie Nelees, who plays young Shana? Melanie Linsky, who plays adult Shauna, a bustle interview where Sophie says to Melanie, if you were to pick that card to get killed.

Yeah. I mean, I guess you couldn't interpret this a few ways, though. I find it difficult to not interpret it thusly. Your season-long theory that they will start pulling the queen with the scratched out eyes in order to go into the pit to participate in this ritual ceremony

and then be drained and eaten by their teammates and cabin mates. Difficult not to think that that's what it means. It was pretty probable at this point. I don't know what else it could possibly mean. Yeah, it's tough. I would just say, you know, it's time to pull cards in the morning. I'm going to go visit the loo. You know, it's time to pull cards in the morning.

Yeah, I'll take out the ship bucket today. I'll just volunteer. Oh, all day, every day. day on ship bucket duty if it gets you out of queen of heart and scratch out eyes duty that's a no-brainer um this next one's for you see mo from sarah who says one of the possibilities you've discussed in the show thus far are abandoned mine tunnels which makes me think of the town of centralia pennsylvania long story short in 1962 the coal mine under the town caught fire and is still burning to this day the fire The fire released dangerous gases into the air, created sinkholes, and eventually led the town to be almost entirely abandoned.

Centrelia is mostly empty these days, but you go out in, say, November, as I have done, when there is snow on the ground, you will still see patches of ground where the snow is melted, and steam rises out of the ground. It is thought that the fire is very deep underground these days, so it's not smoke, as some people claim, but that the air underground is significantly warmer than above ground, and cause the steam to rise and snow to melt in certain places. It's a beautiful and eerie place to visit and I can help. Thinking of it, when they show the patches of melted snow in earlier episodes, Mallory, how do you feel about underground tunnels, be they on fire or no? I mean, hatch, hatch, hatch. This is amazing.

What a cool email. Thank you, Sarah, for bringing this our attention. On the one hand, this gives me, like, white noise vibes, obviously, like, horrifying. And I'm sorry that this happened. Airborne toxic events. Oh my God. Yeah. Real, real delilo core here.

But, yeah, this is like very evocative of what we're seeing so far. It also just makes me think like the idea of, you know, fire, deep underground, something kind of like lying in a weight. There's this like volcanic quality. It makes me think of a dragon. I just, this is checking a lot of the boxes, areas of interest and passion points. Not that I think there will be a dragon on yellow jackets that just really love the email and learning about this. Also, Centralia sounds like a magical town in a fantasy story. Definitely a made-up place. So I just couldn't love this more. I loved it. You know, in all the years that we've been friends and all the many hours we've podcast together, I've never asked you, do you believe that if there's a dragon beneath Winterfell? You're right. We've never talked about this. No.

I like the theory. I think a lot of the compelling, you know, hot spring and warmth in the wall connections are really titillating. I kind of like the idea of dragons nestling in wait anywhere in Westeros or Esos. Like, why not? Why not? I love the dragon in the wall theory. There's a dragon in the wall. Dragons everywhere, nestled everywhere.

Speaking of hatches. And things underground. This is a auditory podcast, so you cannot see this. But please Google the latest poster that Yellow Jackets released, I think about a week and a half ago of our four main young female leads looking down at something very similar in fashion to a very famous shot from a TV series who referenced once or twice. Lost ever heard of it. of John and Jack looking down the hatch,

one of the most iconic lost images of all time. What did you think of what I'm calling the hatch poster, Mallory? I'm considering a full back tat, you know? I just fucking loved it. I was thrilled. I was euphoric and overjoyed. I mean, there's, again, I think, like, we've talked about this a lot. One of the things I love about all of the lost references,

it's not like they're trying to sneak them by. They're coming with blaring sirens, and they're counting on lost fans and enthusiasts to get excited when those connections are apparent. So I really loved the invitation there to enter the hatch. Do you think Cass Elliott is playing down there? Yeah, but like a B-side. It's her duet with John Denver of leaving on a jet plane.

That's what's playing down in the El Jekets Hatch. something we talked about on the magical weapons pod that we did this week was this idea of sort of magpie storytelling. We were talking about Jay rolling in that context. We were talking about Tolkien in that context, et cetera, et cetera. And the point we were making over there was like there's nothing wrong with being a storytelling magpie. So if you're going to make yellow jackets a story about, I mean, they're obviously, they've talked overtly about how Lord of the Flies is a direct-ins bow for this. That's the most direct inspo. But if you are making a TV, a mysterious TV show about a plane crash and you're not actively engaging in Lost, like, that's almost cultural illiteracy.

So, like, you know, you don't have to have seen Lost to enjoy this show to its fullest. I don't think. But there's, you know, it's just rich rewards. And it's never a ding when we're like, they did this on Lost or they did something similar in Lost. It's a joy. It's like Star Wars. It rhymes. You know what I mean?

Last but not least, our most important email of the week comes from Lour. Lauren, straight from the Sodecki kitchen, Lauren writes, you're absolutely disgust at a cinnamon raisin bread as a sandwich bread during the Yellow Jackets pot is just plain wrong. Disclaimer, I'm a savory sweet person. Pynaple and ham on pizza, all on. Got to be real pineapple and prosciutto. Can pineapple is too wet? Oh, okay. Ever tried bacon and apricots life changing, but back to cinnamon raisin bread? I used to work at a fancy, yeah, rustic, restaurant back in Wisconsin that made these amazing toasted sandwiches and one used homemade cinnamon raisin bread ham sharp cheddar green apple slices that's right joe on cinnamon raisin bread

toasted dream flavors they also used to mix it up some days with roasted turkey blackberries berries and brie with you guessed it cinnamon raisin bread don't miss out on these great flavors just because one of the people eating it has also eaten an ear or two or a whole person. Lauren, you legend. Oh, my God. What a kicker. I mean, I don't think I would have read this email because all of your food opinions are frankly pretty shocking, Lauren. But

that was just one of the best kickers I've ever read of an email, so we had to read it. Oh, boy. Are you persuaded by Lauren's advocacy for a certain raisin bread as a sandwich bread? My initial gut response was respectfully. Absolutely not.

Oh, dear you. Frankly, how dare you? But I will concede that the specific sandwiches that Lauren outlines here, I think, sound delicious. And I do, I dabble, I dabble in the sweet, savory mashup. I'm more inclined to just alternate. Like, at the end of the night before bed, if I want a snack, I'll have, like, an entire bag of popcorn if I'm craving something savory. And then I'll have my ice cream. And then I'm like, you know what I want? After I had the sweet, I want more salt, right? I just kind of go in waves. But do I like a nice fruit in a salad?

Sometimes I don't do the pineapple on pizza, though. Adam loves it. It's his favorite. And it's not something that we share, Joe. It's not something that we share. Are you ready for a new fruit fight? Do you like pineapple on your pizza? You know, I hate hot fruit and the one exception is pineapple on pizza.

I love pineapple on pizza. So let me just recap quickly. Yeah. The core facts. You do not like one of the great pleasures in this life, which is a warm fruit pie. You don't want like a peach cobbler. You don't want an apple pie, right? You are appalled.

You are repelled. Yeah. It is the culinary version of a warm bath or a comforting hug or that fleece blanket that you know is just yours and you're like hard pass. But you will bastardize. You will pollute a perfectly good pepperoni pizza or ham pizza or salted cured meat of any sort pizza and put pineapple in it. What do you put up?

What are you pairing with the pineapple then? Just pineapple is fine or pineapple and ham or Canadian bacon or something like that. Just pineapple is the only And it's warm. It's soaking up the steam from the pizza. Here's, okay, here's, and I promise we were going to talk about the show in a second. But first of all, you describe a hot fruit pie, cobbler, buckle, whatever, all the shit that I hate as like a delectable warm bath. No, it's like a warm bath that someone has like sprinkled repugnant pechule oil into or something like that.

That just like ruins the bath. It ruins the dessert course. Here's the deal with pineapple. Pineapple's a very fibrous fruit. And so it doesn't get all like mushy and oversweet. It maintains the integrity of the fruit on the pizza point. So your entire relationship to fruit is this. Does this last for a really long time?

Let's if people have texture issues. People don't eat eggplant because of a texture issue or a mushroom. I love a silky egg plant. I also love a silky egg plant. All right. We found common ground. I love this for us. out there eventually.

What a journey. On the salty sweet front, other than pineapple and pizza, I think the platonic ideal of a movie theater snack is peanut M&Ms and popcorn. No. Yes. No. No. I love a chocolate-covered pretzel, which is a sweet and salty, but that is meant to be presented to me in that form. The joy of a shared bucket of. of sharing popcorn?

Yes. Is you like, you like fix it yourself. You get the peanut emmbs and you get the popcorn. You sit down with your house. And you enjoy them both separately. And you sort of sprinkle them in and you mix them up and you like make sure you're not taking too many of the M&Ms. And they're like, it's like cracker jacks. Anyway, let's talk.

We should talk about yellow jackets, shall we? Okay. We're going to start though in the freaking Sudecki kitchen where we're all good and bad things happen. Yeah. Jeff Sudecchi's not making a sandwich like the one outlined in Lauren's email. Let's say that. Oh, no. He's not. He's like a cool whip and like Hillshire Farms guy. That's that's Jeff Sodecky. You know what I mean? Are you looking for support in your weight management journey? Zepbound terseptide may be able to help. Zepbound is a prescription medicine used with a reduced calorie diet and increased physical activity to help adults with, obesity, or some adults with overweight who also have weight-related medical problems to lose

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The Hilton sale is on now. Book on Hilton.com or the Hilton app and save up to 20% to get the stay you expected. When you want savings, not surprises. It matters where you stay. Hilton, for this day. The cops are calling. Kevin Tan wants to talk to. I thought you know right now because they heard that you put peanut M&Ms in your popcorn

and then share it with a bunch of other people in a public space. Did I say a bunch of the bucket up and down the aisles? It is one with one cherished, valued, trusted, pal. R-17, can I offer you some sustenance? We're not feeding the theater. It's like dads when you're like have the air conditioning on, you leave the door open and they're like, we're not air conditioning the entire street. All right.

Anyway, um, hmm, cops are calling. the Sedeckis, because they want Shana and Cali to come in. Absolutely top-tier peak mothering moment from Shana when she was like, would have been better if you had just fucked the cop, Callie, because then we could have gotten out of this pretty easily. Historic Shana moment. Historic. Like, top five moment, honestly.

This reminded me that our introduction to adult Shana was her masturbating on her daughter's bed while looking at a picture of her daughter's boyfriend. The best. Everyone's fine. Everyone came out of the woods fine, okay? Sean and Kelly go to the cops. Sarcusa being like the biggest piece of shit that ever was. I'm pretty sure he makes cinnamon raisin bread sandwiches all the time.

That's who this guy is. But Kevin's going to interview Callie. Syracuse is going to interview Shauna. Meanwhile, out in the parking lot, Jeff, Cesarinell. Sudecchi continues his legendary run of a playlist by listening to Fuck the Police by NWA. I repeat Jeff Sudecchi's outside in the minivan listening to in the police station parking lot, listening to fuck the police by NWA. Astonishing stuff from Jeff. Who do you think has had more of a direct impact on the Spotify charts in the last?

like year and a half. Jeff Sadecki or Kate Bush. Well, a new contender is about to enter the ring because, like, James Gunn is like, hold my, whole my beer, hold my Zoom, you know what I mean? What do you make in this next part where Jeff takes, answers Shauna's phone and takes a call from Ty? How do we feel about this? I thought this was strange that he would presume to answer the phone.

to answer the phone. Like one of the great things about smartphones of the smartphone era is that people can leave you messages you see right away a notification that you have received

a phone call it says who it's from it's very handy. However, I was glad ultimately that he did because in addition to it facilitating the final scene which ultimately is responsible

for getting Sean back with the rest of the cast for which I am willing so I'm so grateful that I'm willing to forget and forgive all of Jeff's poor manners and subpar domestic etiquette. I just thought this was really weird. It was also kind of fun to hear him talk to Ty and very briefly.

And then. A high back and forth with Van. Just to remember how deeply rooted Jeff's connection and history with this whole group is as well. They were all in health class together, right? You know, and he might have tried to blackmail some of them last season, but, you know, they all knew each other. Um, Syracuse and meanwhile is just very outmatched out of his depth. I feel like interrogating Shana.

Shauna seems to feel like maybe she said something she wasn't supposed to in this interrogation. Sadeki's, you know, continued to not be great crime lords. Um, I feel like the birds of the Ozark might have a thing or two to teach them about being a little, a minivan driving crime family. But Shauna has this moment, right? You're accusing me of what? Being a bad mom?

Well, aren't you a fucking genius? And they're like, Melanie Linsky, go, go, cook. I never wanted to be a mom. In fact, I did not start out as a bad person. In case you had noticed, life doesn't turn out that way. You think it will. You have a kid that you don't want to save a marriage that you got into out of guilt and shame. He just really can't let yourself love either of them.

But, of course, you do love them despite yourself. is Syracuse giving her a smirmy well done in the face of this very emotionally sincere moment from Shana. What did you make of all of this? That very last line after she lets all of that out. And, you know, obviously his read is, you're playing me, you're gaming me, right? You're working me and I see it.

And, you know, it is so apparent to us in this moment. as she is saying this, also we have the context across the episode that we'll talk about later. But even when we zip forward into the debrief with Jeff and Shauna in the minivan, and she's like, I told him I had an affair with Adam and he's like, what? She's like, I don't, I don't know why I said it. And that I think really does cement that what she's sharing here is sincere. And, you know, there were so many like heartbreaking aspects of this. I think for many people probably very relatable aspects of this. that very last line, you're just incredibly bad at it, was, you know, I think one of the recurring beats of our Yellow Jackets conversations is like, I cannot relate to these characters for these 750 reasons. But you never go more than a couple of scenes without them reminding you of why you care, like of why you have invested in them and in their relationships and in their lives.

And, like, this was just such a deeply vulnerable and human thing for Shawna to share. And because we have the context of the smug smirking asshole, Syracusa, by the way. Proud Syracuse grad here. And I will share with you that my Google Docs are auto correcting to Syracuse. And it's a nightmare. No. Yeah. I'm like, I don't want to associate this.

Wow, he's besmirching. With my beloved university. Yeah. Uh. Well, I think it's interesting also this. I did not start as a bad person. But in case you haven't noticed, life doesn't tend to turn out the way you think. And like, we have to think about the conversations that Jeff and Shauna had about, like, the fact that they, you know, I think there are magnitudes of quote unquote badness in a person.

And, you know, killing someone and dismembering them and burying them somewhere with your pals is very different from, like, having sex with your best friend's boyfriend. but there was something in Shauna and Jeff and their relationship to begin with that was attracted to a darkness or a danger if you prefer, you know what I mean? And then how is that exacerbated and magnitized by, magnified by their experience in the woods? Yeah, that's a great call. And like, this is one of the aspects of Shauna that is so compelling to us, but that is also a, a through line across the different characters. You know, we've really enjoyed the moments of this season where Shauna has talked about embracing

the parts of herself that she used to fear or that she used to feel ashamed of and to come to accept them, right? I used to think that made me like a pervert. I like now I like who I am. A couple different versions of that. But there are just as many moments like this where she is ashamed of what she wants. And then like to have this kind of reveal very close. to the affair reveal where again we get another moment like that the you know because i got to like feel

young again for just a fucking minute like because it felt now i'm paraphrasing right but like it felt good to be wanted like she says the hot part was over right like it was sexy it was fun someone desired me i felt like transported back to a different type of part of my life and i thought in this episode that was so interesting because so much of the episode is about like fearing the past or like not judging people because of the past so much of the season really And so to have like something, even if it's in the very recent past, be like a thing that you covet and that you long for and that brought you like this different heightened sense of yourself. I'm always interested in how the characters are thinking about the past. Absolutely.

And like that episode in season one where she and Adam are like in the van and they're trying to get, you know, someone to buy alcohol for them and stuff like that. Like that very overt let me pretend I'm a teenager episode. And it's so sad because, you know, because we know that Shauna's teenage years were taken from her. And, you know, like even when they returned, they're, you know, to quote the theme song of the show, no return. Like, no return from the woods, right? This Sedecki sequence ends with, again, I think this whole, like, tie called, I think you should leave feels a little clumsy. But I'm not complaining because, again, you know, when Jeff says, Hey, Shawna, the rest of the cast is hanging out without you.

Maybe you should go join them. And all of you was at home are like, yes, Shauna, please go join the rest of the cast. Even like their minivan beating Van and Ty. Like, you know, I guess Van and Die are further away in Ohio. But still, it's like, oh, so they just immediately hit the road. Yeah, it's like there was a sense that we can't wait any longer. You know, we cannot wait any longer than the end of episode six. She just went. Yeah.

Absolutely directly from there. Before we leave, just need to shout out. Jeff's great straw acting and a literal spit take. Sensational. Sensation. What? Why? Yeah, this is a moment you write for someone who really nailed there's no book club last season. Absolutely.

I wanted to ask you, like, now that Shawna is up with the honeymaking crew, how worried are you for Jeff and Callie? Because it's not like the investigation is going to cease, simply because Shawna has left town. You have called out before in the intro breakdowns, some blood spatters around Sedecki family photos. Like, one of the shots in the trailer was the cops, like, knocking on a door.

Are they going to go find Shauna? Are they going to keep pursuing Kelly? What's going to happen? Well, something that we've been tracking this season is like, just how loyal is Jeff? Like he seems so loyal, but then there are these moments where he's like, so the question is with Shauna not there

to like reinforce, stay on my team, stay on target, stay like together. Like, you know, is that, is that make him more vulnerable to something around the cops? Do you know what I mean?

Yeah, that's a great question. Who knows what Randy and Jeff will get into? Maybe Waltz or, will make his way to Jeff through Randy. God, I'm going to go. I mean, that would be fun. It's been two weeks

since we last seen Walter. My good old Cobb Vance counter from the ring of versus Breson over here. Hopefully you don't have to wait nearly as long. Walter Tattersill. The last thing in the Sedeckis before we leave their minivan, I just wanted to note,

and I think we'll, I think we'll, we can talk more about this in other characters because the point is that it comes up with everyone in this episode. But when Jeff tells Shana, what he learned from Thai, she says, I thought Lottie was barely coherent. And we got versions of that,

different specific word choices, but very similar responses of shock from Shauna, Misty, and Ty in this episode. And so it's like, how long was Lottie gone for the entire, like from 98 until this moment? How long can one be in Switzerland?

Do you know what I mean? Yeah. Like that's what I was. Because we saw, you know, in the first episode, we got that little stretch after the return. Did she come back after that and then go back into it? I mean, I wouldn't be surprised if, like, she went directly into something and they never saw her again. Do you know what I mean? And they've seen each other since.

Some of them have been in touch. Some people were at Shawna and Jeff's wedding. I really need to have a Shawna and Jeff wedding episode to see everyone in action. there. And we got a timeline question over in the Van and Tie section that I do want to talk about. But like, I feel like Lottie's been gone this whole time. Yeah. You know? It definitely seems that way. That's been kind of key because, again, speaking of influence, like Lottie's influence and how that impacts the way in which they interact with this darkness. Do you know what I mean? Who will ultimately be gone longer, Joe? Lottie for the better part of

two plus decades. or tie from her job, her public job as a... Her child. As a... Yeah, her child. Still missing Steve. No update on Steve. Her hospitalized wife.

And her job now is an elected official. No, she, I don't think they've had, like, the inauguration yet. You just piece out for... She won the election. But there's no response. There's no, like, she just stole her AIDS car and left it on the side of the road, and that's it. No check-ins?

What about the child? That's my... real question. All right. I just, I hope Steve is okay. And Sammy. All right, let's talk about let's talk about Van and Ty starts one of my all time favorite songs of all time ever. Whoa. Your woman by White Town. I love this song. Do you want to just say right now that this is your your pick for needle drop of the episode? Should we just do it here? I can't imagine. I'm going to pick something else. What's so interesting is that how did you how did one ever think we could top? Fuck the police. But But here we are.

It's White Town. It's always interesting to me when they drop, like, a song that came out after their return. You know what I mean? Like, because we get a blur song later that also came out after their return. Van noticeably stressed because, you know, Dark Tie kind of assaulted her in the middle of the night, right? Ty emerging with a lot of, like, attitude, why didn't you wake me? It's like, oh boy. I also like that she's in like Van Drag, like she puts on the van plaid, you know what I mean?

Like she's, it's, it's, I love, I love some plaid and flannel in a 90s, a homage. Okay. They discussed this phrase, this isn't where we're supposed to be, which sort of by the end of the episode, we figure that means we're supposed to go to the bee farm. But I love this moment where Tye's talking about. talking about it, who's we. Your family, Van says, your multiple personalities. You and me. You're married. There's no us anymore. Meanwhile, Van is like, rewinding tapes, right? Like, this, like, going, this, this retro stuck in the past thing with Van. But, I mean, what strikes me, you know, she tries to drop tie off at the end of this episode. Like, it seems like she was

thinking about just, like, leaving and stuff like that. It's painful for Van. Van, Van feels to me, my read is that she's so hung up on Ty, has always been, and that Ty left her for some reason or another. We've theorized about why that might have happened. You know, so the fact that she's married is so hurtful to Van, right? And like, how can you show up and be like this chummy with me when you devastated me once upon a time, you know? Yes. This, I'm sure will take many of you were back into some post-breakup like, can we be friends

faces? Again, like very relatable content here despite the drastically different circumstances. I loved the moments where, in addition to the quote you just shared, like, hi is asking Van about the past due notices

that she's spotted in the trash bin, and Van's like, how is that in your business? You came here for help with your life. If I need help with mine, I'll let you know. And it's difficult, I think, to think of a way to more succinctly sum up how seismically the relationship between these two characters has changed than a moment like that. Because, like, what's the through line that we've discussed most with them? It's the idea of acceptance, presence, aid when aid provided when nobody else even knows to ask if you

need help, right? And so, like, it's just you feel the. distance and then you wonder like you're saying like what caused the distance to grow and is there any way to bridge it and I think that it's a very rich text with Van and Ty but there was also

and I don't want to skip ahead we can hit this more whenever it's appropriate but the question of what happened between Van and Lottie because there's such a distance when when Van says they're in the car Van's giving Ty a lift and

And Ty says, like, aren't you curious? And Van says, what about Lottie, the diagnosed schizophrenic and her so glad wellness center, so-called wellness center out in the middle of nowhere? Oh, I'm curious. But no, I'd rather keep the past in the past. So again, there's the past idea, right? And that's where Ty starts to like list all of the ways that Van Spencer time in the past, which leads to that like really heart-wrenching.

Yeah, past where we actually thought being happy was something that was possible, not the one that happened, reply from Van, which was just her. Horrifying. Oh, just devastating. But like... Yeah, Vans... The update on Vans Lottie's feeling was fascinating to me because, like, she is one of... Misty had some of that too, right?

And they're both, like, adherence. Van more so than Misty in the past, but both of them. Van, one of the most... I mean, I don't want to talk about Mari, but Mari aside, like, Van is one of the most, like, you know, you know, zealous followers of Lottie, it feels like. So, yeah, what happened? Yeah. The way that the look on Vans face in particular when Lottie turns at the very, at the end of the episode, like, what did you read there? Is it fear? Is it fear of returning through that connection to Lottie through maybe the buy-in and the belief that Lottie unlocked in Vann to something that Vann has worked over the years to move away from? Is it the shame, the guilt?

I feel like it was Van having a moment where she was like, man, I can't pull off a kaff tan like. that? What the fuck? Absolutely top tier fit for Lottie in that moment. It really was. Rattable cap tan work from Lottie. No, I think, I think, you know, Van is such an interesting contradictory figure, right? Because she's stuck in the past in so many ways, the VHS tapes, all this sort of stuff, not moving on clearly from her heartbreak around Thai, et cetera, et cetera. but then also distancing herself more firmly than the rest of them from this central mystery,

content to be in the middle of Nowersville, Oberlin, rather than in connection with any, you know, connected to any of them, etc. Connected through the apps, though. So that's something. She gets her needs met. I get my needs met was iconic. I couldn't have loved it more. And then Ty I'm asking if she meant, quote, personal electronics.

But Ty being like, ew? I was like, Ty, put your judgment away in the glove compartment. I know. I know. I know. One last thing before we leave these two. Two last things. First of all, the miscongeniality moment in the video store.

This is like obviously an old joke between the two of them. Miss Congeniality, the Cedar Bullock film. First of all, I want to go to Vann's video store where apparently there are categories like Sandy Good, Sandy Bad. And by the way, what's a movie you would put in Sandy Bad? Do you think that means bad movie or do you think it means like she's playing someone with ill intent? It's definitely quality, right? Because Miss Congeniality belongs in Sandy Good. And this is a joke they have between them from the year 2000.

So we think they made it through Jeff and Chana's wedding as a couple. How long after that we don't know. But, you know, they had some time together. And then also we just need to talk about this incredible phone call that Misty made to tell Ty. to tell Ty to come. And her description where she says it's a bunch of granola losers, but the food is great

and the PO factor is surprisingly low. I just loved this Misty episode. I can't wait to talk about her more. Crushing it. Creshing it. Grinola is delicious. I know that she's knocking an association there,

But she's calling like crunchy granola hip beans, you know, any more. But granola is delicious. So, like, so let's all erase. Do you think they're using on the B.O. front, though, because obviously everybody has to hand over their personal possessions, which we'll talk about more than a second. I hope we're devoting a solid 45 minutes to going through every item that Misty handed over. But presumably, if you had, you know, a stick of your chosen antiperspirant with you, you'd hand that over. So do you think everyone's going bare? or is there some sort of natural deodorant on offer?

They're on the crystal. Have you ever used the crystal? No, but I know a couple people who do that. I used it when I lived in Hawaii. I used it and that's the only time you can get away with it because you were just like, no, but you're like constantly, like, you're constantly sweating. And like you're hiking and you're sweating and you're like,

you're just a little cleaner. I feel like you're just cycling more. sweat through your pores. And so you just, you don't smell bad because, but like when I got back to the mainland, I tried to stay on the crystal. Uh-uh. Oh, interesting. It's not for city life.

Okay. It's for country living only. Okay. So it's not just for like being overheated and sweating profusely. I was going to ask if I should use it next time I record in this room. No, I feel like you need to be, you know, in the back country of Hawaii. Anyway, um, I hope they're not just going. going nothing.

Get on the crystal, folks. All right. Let's, we just have two more sections left because this is what happens when the whole gang gets together. We're on, we're in a purple bee farm territory. Right.

And everyone's coming together and this is the moment you've been waiting for, which is Misty checking in with a new character who I love, Ackolite Rob, according to the credits. Absolutely incredible addition to the texture of reality. Similar to how I felt about. The front desk pal at the motel, I need a spin-off. Now, there's another show on the works called The Acolyte, so it can't be that.

We're looking forward to that. But this guy needs an expanded cannon. What an incredible, incredible debut. You mean because he's dissolving a subscription horse meat business that he started with his brother-in-law? I'm not going to lie to you. I'm sure most people heard that in their just immediate, like, reflexive response was how horrifying. Mine was, I wonder if this is an upcoming plot on a future

Taylor shared and expanded universe Yellowstone property. Like, you know, when will Yellowstone return given the Kevin Costner of it all who can say? But if this is a plot on day, I just cut up on the Costner drama, Mallory. It's been a hard, a hard 36 hours, Joe. I'm so sorry to hear it. I literally just found out about that. Otherwise, I would of sending you my condolences earlier. Thank you. Yeah. Do you think Ackleit Rob's subscription horse meat service with his brother-in-law is a better or worse venture than Carl from Succession going halves?

He's on a Greek island with his brother-in-law. Yeah. I think Carl has thought extensively, fully, and aspirationally about his future. And I'm taking notes. Yeah. Rob meanwhile is in a drum circle. So that's where we are. Okay, so back to check in.

A fetching basket, of course, is what we receive all of Misty's items in. And then we see later that when the crew arrives, Misty is participating in basket weaving. So I really paid it forward already. Underwater Basket weaving. Was that a joke at Syracuse? It was a joke at UC Davis. Underwater Basket weaving? No?

It was like the joke elective. If you needed arts credits, you can take underwater basket weaving. We shouldn't, I mean, I'm sure actually underwater basket weaving is very cool. I don't know why. Okay. Brass knuckles is sort of like the first thing that catches our eyes. It drops. Astonishing it, right?

Yes. Yep. Little binoculars are also there. By the way, fashionable. Like, these were stylish. She got the. from Etsy, I am sure of it, honestly. They're like opera glasses, right?

Hypodermic needle and vial. I tried to freeze on the vial to see what it was. No, I couldn't find anything. Did you find something? Well, no, but what I found was a painful memory. Because this is how Misty has killed a person before. Yeah, right? Jessica.

Yeah, part of the threat with Jessica was injecting the fentanyl into the chocolates to threaten and her father and then obviously injected into the cigarette that Jessica ended up smoking. So I'm like, this is part of Missy's travel kit. I am troubled and dismayed. Oh, you're like, bring Walter back. Time for them to do some murders. And I'm like, Misty, no, no, no, no. Bring Walter back.

Why, Mallory, what is the item in the basket that we need to bring Walter back for? It's not the hypodermic. What is it? It's the, well, there are a few things. I mean, we've got some lotion, we've got some honey, we've got some jam. I believe we have a toothbrush. And folks, we've got handcuffs. We're ready for a fun evening.

We've got handcuffs. We have a whole night ahead of us. If you're talking about the salty and the sweet, it's the jam and it's the honey and it's the handcuffs, okay? There are also two messages from Walter on Missy's phone and she's giving it up to an acolyte rob. I love that acolyte rob is super nosy and notices. I know. He's not above. He's like, our cell phones chain us to like whatever.

But he's like, but also I looked at your messages. Yeah. Yeah. Well, what do you think Walter is texting about? We see two texts. Like, first of all, the response. Any kind of book could see. I hope they're literally like audio text messages.

You know how sometimes I say do audio text. Yeah. Yeah. Sometimes Steve will sing to us on or do a voice impression on a. has incredible impressions. Yeah, it's wonderful. Do you think Walter, though, has discovered something? Because there are a couple things to parse.

There's Misty's response, right? How much of it is just, I don't want to be out of control, like, I don't want to lose my line to the outside world. How much of it is, oh, I actually do Miss Walter. I wish I hadn't sent him away. I kind of do want him here. I want to hear from him, which there's that look on her face later, too, when that asks where he is. But also, what do you think? I can't wait to talk about that look.

But what do you think Walter is saying? Has he discovered something, Joe? I mean, he's always on the case. Exactly. There's no way that he stopped sleuthing. No way. Our little gum shoe is active. Or do you think he sent her a photo of whatever horrific new breakfast taco he is

concocted at a local upstate New York diner? How do you think he could top the last? Creation. I don't know. You might have to head to the Sedecky kitchen. In this same moment, I wanted to ask you if when Missy asks, you know, she's very flummoxed by the no-phone policy, she's asking about emergencies, including a fire. Is Misty going to burn this complex down? Oh, I hope so.

That sounds really, that sounds more fun than, like, injecting fentanyl. We did, injecting fentanyl is so last season. So yes, I hope there's a massive, actually as a Californian, I should not wish for a fire. So a small fire, small contained fire. Okay, we already mentioned Christina Ritching in this episode. Genuinely, I think her best episode ever, and that's a high bar. The way she says, hello Charlotte, identical to the intonation of hello, Clarice from Hannibal Lecter, like identical. Lottie looks pissed, like pissed to see Misty.

Even as she says things like we are a community of love and spiritual growth. Well, I help people heal from past trauma, so they'll stop running from themselves. Come join us. We can weave baskets together. Do you think that Lottie is like you're about to interfere with what I have going on with Nat? Do you think it's that Misty knows something about Lottie, that Lottie isn't ready to confront? I don't know if I wonder if we're misinterpreting some of these moments when this actress looks to us pissed.

I think what she might be trying to convey is I am overwhelmed by the machinations of the universe that these people keep showing up here. That sort of seems more in line with what she says later in therapy. You know what I mean? Yeah, I agree with that. part of the reason I'm wondering if we should be reading it as like, oh no, here's another obstacle in my way is because again, like we were talking about with Shawna, like the fact that Misty and with Van, the fact that Misty is like not happy to be around Lottie until later until she becomes a quick cult convert, but like is really on guard and on edge.

It is totally. Missy being like, I'm ready to join this cult. the food's great. And I wasn't into the crying thing at first, but it must work because I'm happy. Everybody is. It's just like incredible recruitment and conversion stuff. But yeah, like the people who at one point were in some way invested in Lottie connected to her, literally kneeling down with her are among the people who are most like,

I don't want to be around this now, which I can't wait to learn more about. Really bad. happen. Lisa finds Nat. There's this whole back and forth, right? She gives her the fish, blah, blah, blah. Nat's doing rifle practice. And has lost her aim, has lost her ability to work.

Lost her crack. She's not even trying with the purple, right? She's got her, like, black base on with that, like, really beautiful sweater that I love on top of it. And she has this whole sort of emotional breakdown with Lisa, a continuation of the breakdown she had at the end of the last episode two weeks ago, you know, talking about her responsibility, taking responsibility for Travis saying, and this is something that sort of the showrunners were alluding to at the beginning of the season.

We were like, how do we reconcile Nat saying Travis never believed in any of that shit when we see him following Lottie? And I think it was Jonathan was saying, like, that's something that she would tell herself to distance herself from this. And this really came home to roost in this scene, right, where she was like, I was telling myself was Lottie's fault. I was telling me. But it's like my fault, right?

And, you know, I'm just going to skip ahead to the fish thing, right? Like, not nearly kills this fish. Very sad. Gives her and then she beats it instead and she grabs the purple clothing. So like, it's all, what does she say? It's all a prison anyway, right? And it's sort of, it's similar to what she said to Jackie, right, in the plane when she's like, you're the lucky one in all of them.

this back in the day. But then she seems to have completely just snapped in a way where she is all in on purple because as you and I have discussed a great length of her text message before we recorded this, she, Nat puts on a dress that actually Juliette Lewis is making work for her, a dress that looks, I think looks kind of nice, a cardigan, and then an appalling combination of purple socks and purple Birkenstocks. Now let me just say, as a crunchy granola. 90s person myself, I love a Birkenstock. I currently wear a Birkenstock. I wear them all through high school. I love a

Birkenstock. A purple Birkenstock is a hard no. Hard no for me. Okay. Pair them with a purple sock? It's the worst thing I've ever seen Sartorial. I'm going to give it a try. Next time with you, this is going to be what I wear. Maybe it's like freeing. Maybe it's liberating. Maybe it's comfortable. You were, As people can now, we are very distressed by this. We were texting about how you were distressed by this. And I then made a picture of Nat's feed in this moment, my contact photo for you and sent you a screenshot of that. And you weren't pleased. Friendship is fun. You know what I mean?

Was I displeased or did I just send you an equal screenshot of how I made Misty's most deranged face is now your photo, my phone? Speaking of deranged moments, Lottie is back in session with her, I'm putting quotes on this, psychiatrist. Okay, so here's what going on. The way this scene is shot is very interesting to me because we never see this person's face. And I had to go back to the other session to make sure that we had seen her face before and we had. the actress is Jennifer Lyne. She's listed as psychiatrist. No doctor, whatever, no real name,

just psychiatrist in the credits. Make your bets right now. Is this person real? Mallory. Is this a real person? Or is a lot of you talking to herself? I think the first encounter that we had, I felt like, okay,

this person is like an agent, a plant of whatever nefarious forces out there. whoever the puppet master maybe is or whoever hobby's friend is, I still think that's... The woman in the trees. Sorry. I still think that's possible. But the choice, particularly in a show where what people are seeing or not seeing, who they're interacting with, what their expressions are, how they're responding to each other is so central to the way that we interpret the text, the choice to not show us this person's face,

makes it, I think, really difficult not to wonder if that person is real or if Lottie is having that conversation. To unreliable narrator corner in this episode Lottie. Absolutely. I mean, like, this is very suspicious to me. And I like the idea that it's a delusion rather than like some sort of shadowy agent pulling string, you know, which I was on board with that theory before because I continuously like the idea that the threat to these women is more internal than it is external. You know what I mean? So if this is a projection coming from Lonnie rather than like a person who's part of whatever the version of Dharma initiative or whatever it is that, you know,

is pulling some kind of strings, you know? So while I'm still with you that there are others, that others exist on the show, Javi's got a friend. Like I, I am with you on that. There are tunnels of some kind under trees. I am a full believer. I still think that idea of the darkness should come from inside rather than outside. I agree. And I think that that was really present for both.

I mean, really for everyone, but for in particular Nat and Lottie in their scenes in this episode, even like the way that they're echoing each other's speech, like a lot of what we heard from Nat, both in the flashback with Travis and then subsequently with Lottie in the present day in episode five is like what, not only what Nat is working through in a slightly different version with Lisa in this episode, but what Lottie is then parroting in these conversations, right?

This idea that they brought it back with them. And like, to your point, well, what is the it? Well, I think there's some fascinating, conversation about exactly that that is actually incorporated into the dialogue in this maybe real, maybe fake conversation where, you know, when Lottie says, it's like it sent them here

to show me, to show you what? That it was real and that I wasn't the only one who felt it out there. It was all of us. It was a part of us. What is it, Ladi? The power of that place, the god of that place.

We did terrible things in its name. And I thought that when we were rescued, that we left it there. But now I realized we brought it back with us. So is that literally the power, the God, the darkness, the wilderness, this force that we keep talking about and that the characters are trying to like understand? Or is it the changes inside of themselves? I think that it could be either. But I agree with you that ultimately the latter is the more interesting. earth to till for the story. And the former ultimately can still influence and shape the latter.

They don't have to be mutually exclusive. I think this idea that keeps cropping up with Lottie's proto-religion that she is founding here in the forest and the flashbacks, I think the idea of a higher power in general is a way to absolve yourself of certain actions and decisions, right? So if you If you make a god or you make the universe makes these decisions or the woods or the darkness or the wilderness or the it, if there is an it, you know, like, who, right? If there is an it, then it's not you doing these things. It's not you eating Jackie. It's not you doing this. It's some outside force that made you do this.

When in reality, I think the journey for these women is to confront how much it was just them on. their own and that the darkness existed inside of them and it was it blossomed in the forest, but it wasn't a force put on them. And then I think also this idea of, you know, bringing it back with them is just sort of like, how do you exorcise something like that once it's blossomed within you? And also that idea of the power, and this is something the showrunners have talked about a lot, is this idea of the power that they felt in that sort of. social structure that they built in the forest that they didn't feel as young women in the 90s back in the real world, quote unquote.

That is, that to me feels more like an activating agent to an internal darkness than it does, again, some sort of external thing to strive for. Yeah, I agree. I mean, I think they're one of the things that's really fun about the way that they've structured the show so far is that you're on the path to being able to accept any number of eventual outcomes. Is there a version of, you know, who they are,

the Antler Queen or whomever is like the Ben operating on behalf of the Jacob or the Antler Queen is the Jacob and they become the Ben or whatever the version of it is? Maybe. But the number of times in this episode in particular where they're harping on the idea, not only that they brought this back,

but this question of like whether they deserved to come back at all because of the things they did, like to assess the cost and that internal damage and trauma and then how the different characters try to work through that. That was another thing that I really loved about the role reverse, like the inversion of these moments with Nat and Lisa where the things that Nat said to Lisa, the guidance that she provided, the help that she gave her. in the specific context too of like these these questions and these struggles that's what Lisa is able to do for her here in part because Natalie had done it for her before and so like

that idea of how you can work toward a more hopeful place how you can put the fish back in the bowl is was I thought on display really nicely with with Lisa and that and I think what Lisa says right about you should be responsible for something other than yourself something in in an episode so centered on motherhood, right? Like, I think this idea of, you know, I certainly do not think that you need to be a literal mother of a literal child in order to be a complete human. But I think that there is that sense of thinking outside of yourself, thinking as a community rather than thinking as a person, you know, the, and this is in any story about building a

society, which is what they're trying to do in that cabin in the woods, that idea of the individual versus the greater good of the group, which is going to come up. If we are sacrificing members of the group for the greater good of the group, that idea of group mentality versus individualistic mentality is going to be top of mind for the creators and for these characters. And so I think for someone like, you know, for someone like Shauna talking about her difficulty in loving people and everything that she brought back from the woods with her and how it is filled her with guilt and shame and all this sort of stuff like that for these you know for tie who's fucking left her dog and her son and her job and is not looking back like

it's not it doesn't have to be about literal mothering but there is something about like nurturing or thinking of other people that is stunted in these people because of the experience that they had in the woods. Before we go, two last things, three last things. They all involved Misty, so what a treat for us. First of all, we already talked about the horse meat subscription. I just need to shout out Christina Ricci's drum circle work, like how lightly she is like barely brushing the drums because she does not want to be there and she's not

enjoying the cry therapy. And then when they were like, wait, you know Lottie and oh, you know Nat? And then she's a celebrity and she's just like, oh, the spotlight's on me. Time for my solo. This is what Misty has always wanted, right? Striving. People to be interested in her and to welcome her and to ask what she thinks and to want to hear her stories. You mean like Walter was? Come back, Walter.

Oh, sweet Walter. And then your favorite scene where Nat comes into the dining room and Misty is just holding court with Acolyte Rob and the rest. And she says knowing Lottie basically makes us celebrities and they have the conversation about Walter. The face. This is what you made my contact photo was a close-up of Misty's face here after Nat asked this. Like the life that is lived in full on Misty's face in those few seconds. Even before you sent me that video, which you did earlier today of that moment, I had written in the notes,

giving her absolutely cuckoo eyes because it's just like an incredible. Incredible Christina Ritchie performance. Oh my God. But Nat saying we're all like this, aren't we? I think going back to that nurturing point. And there's a lot of sound cross-cutting in this episode. Yes. Yes.

The sound of Shauna's baby crying, dream Shauna's baby crying cuts in right as Nat says we're all like this, aren't we? you know um one last thing before we go to the shana section which is you know everyone everyone gather them you already talked about the kaff tan but i do want to shout out vans makes two solid cult jokes a kool-a joke a nike heaven's gate joke i think we all know which cult maller would join if she were to join when it would be heaven's gate because she's got her shoe thing yeah big sneaker head you know yeah they don't they don't they don't make the the the Nike decades anymore because of

because of what happened. Yeah. Oh my God. All right. I didn't know that. I thought it was interesting. Shawna shows up and hugs, Nat. Makes sense. Ty hugs Misty. Doesn't make a ton of sense to me, but okay.

It's, you know, it's always nice to be back with friends who you buried a body with. Yeah, a long time out in the woods. wilderness eating people with and then severed a body and disposed of it with in the more recent past. Some bonds are eternal, Joe. We get one more shot of the symbol that is carved to the grounds as Lottie is walking across it to come meet them in an overhead shot. That's sort of the closing shot. I like the placements because Lottie, you know, is kind of like coming from her perch.

And so she, when we get that overhead shot, she's kind of walking into like what we would think of as like the head. Yeah, the head into the body of the, and everybody else is they're out on the road still, so they're kind of at the base, but almost positioned like they're about to have to cross the threshold, you know, to opt back into this experience. Great to see the adults altogether, though. I'm thrilled.

A friend of mine who loves a show, Christen Rousseau, shout out. Some of me, like, one of the promo images of the episode was the five of them. standing there. Lottie's not in shot, but the rest of the five of them standing there. And she was like, I almost cried. Who could imagine that, like, seeing the lead characters of a show standing all in one place would make me so happy. But, you know, welcome to the main plot, Shauna. We're so glad you're here. Okay. Speaking of Shauna, we get a pre-crash health class center. We've already talked about a little bit. How much, what do you, what else do you

want to say about your guy Randog or anything else that happens in here? Every Randy scene is incredible. Like, it's just this, they have like a, they're batting a thousand with this character. Oh, man, is that his dick? Let's hope he's a grower, right, Jeff. What is wrong with Randy? Jeff seems like he hates Randy, and I have my questions about how they're still friends.

Yeah, he was really focused on scribbling his note to Shawna about the tutoring session. The Magnum's All Day thing was just simply exquisite. And I thought the cover from Shawna when she, like, you know, because obviously, you're going, yeah, we all remember being in high school and passing notes. You're not only like, if you're involved in that thing, like, okay, this is a big focus here, but you're watching everybody else. Who's passing notes? Why?

What does it mean? Right? And so for everybody to see Jeff passing a Sean of that note, she had to go cover for it, because who's not in the health class watching the birth video? Jackie. Jackie likes poppy. It says it puts on this whole show to say it really loudly. And to your earlier point, like to get that reminder there of how they're, their dalliance.

long predates anything that happened out in the wilderness. And how the Senekees have frankly always been bad at crime. Just like lifelong terrible criminals. Just leaving a trail. There's also this sort of, I mean, we see Misty assiduously taking notes, which will come up, you know, sort of in the birthing scene later. She asks how much blood. She asks it kind of eagerly. And later we will see her very traumatized by all the blood that she will encounter.

And then there's the quote from the health video, which is the infant's lungs will fill with air. signaled by a cry, which is, of course, a huge part of what comes next. Shauna went into labor at the end of the last episode, so we cut in and she's screaming in pain, and we get song 2 by Blur, another song I love, but a very odd choice, a very jaunty woo-hoo sort of choice here. Any thoughts about why they use Blur here? There are some interesting musical selections inside of this episode in general. And, you know, I think part of the musical accompaniments in Yellow Jackets is just like, if you're never going to Google it, if you're not going to look at the lyrics,

if you're not going to pay attention to maybe the thematic resonance, which is completely fine, right? And more than valid way to watch a television show. Is it getting you in the headspace you need to be in? Like, is it working just in terms of tone, vibe, energy in that respect? but then so often, either what the song is about or what is right there in the lyrics is applicable in a given scene. So I think they typically do a great job of it. But yeah, there were some in this episode that were not everything was quite as overt and apparent as fuck the police outside of the local precinct.

Well, I lie and I'm easy all the time, but I'm never sure why I need you, please to meet you. I don't know. If you have thoughts about, I mean, I love this song again, but if you have thoughts about why song too is here, Hobbitz and drag is Gmail.com. Everyone is like rushing to help. Travis is helping. Very tall hobbies help. Everyone's helping, right?

This is our baby. We get a lot of Shauna POV shots. And I think it's to set us up for being inside of her head for like fully 20 minutes of the episode. An interesting artistic choice, I thought. And, you know, we get, again, like I said, a lot of cross-cutting. Like, we cut from present-day Shana saying, should we just get this over with in her interrogation to 90-Shana saying, why the fuck is this taking so long? And throughout the labor part of this, Shana, which is something she will address in her dream sequence, Shana is just like, I don't want this, get it out of me. Like, you know, not the like glowing expectant mother, but rather just sort of.

of like this is awful. Can we end it? Even Mari is helpful. How did you feel about Mari? Very briefly. Briefly. Yeah, Mari has the helpful suggestion to boil water.

You know, Aquila notes, yes, it's important to keep things clean. And it was like, wow, this is such a monumental moment for this collection of people that even fucking Mari is coming through in the clutch and then like 30 seconds later when Lottie suggests

that they all share a hope. Mari says, wilderness, I hope Shana doesn't die and it's like, Mari, to quote my beloved co-host and pal Joanna Robinson,

if I may, get in the pit, Mari. Get in the pit, Murray. And may I add, read the room Lottie, when Lottie tries to lay hands

on Shana, something that Shana has like always abhorred while she's in labor and Ty has to sort of like intervene. I'm just like, I believe that Lottie does mean well. And I believe that when she's just like, we have to make an offering and they start chanting and all this stuff like that, I really do think she's helping. But like, don't touch the woman who's in labor who is like inactive pain and who hates you

and your whole, your whole mystical mumbo-jumbo. And screamed at you last episode, like to get away from her baby has made it very clear that you're, you know, she deems it like obsession with the baby is nod to her liking. And Lottie, that, that, that, I also thought that line, like, just let your pain open you to this moment. Hate it. Again, there's, like, I think you're right that Lottie has this, this, a purity of intention from her perspective.

But helping people isn't doing what you want and think it's right. It's doing what they need. And that's not what this is at all. And it was just like, you know, I thought also tracking Ty because Ty had kind of been pulled into the prayer circle, right? But in this moment, Ty's like, Lottie, let's get some distance here, get away from Shauna. And who's the one that across this, you know,

really just devastating stretch of the episode, who's the one who Shauna is calling out for Ty, Ty, Ty, Ty? And then when Ty also joins the chant, you know, again, to kind of these oscillations for all of the characters regarding Lottie are just so interesting. And I think, you know, it's such a great mirror of the last episode where when they're lost in the storm and Ty starts chanced. Like when is it the extreme moments where Ty is like, fine, I don't believe in this, but just

in case, you know, let's do this. Tiny, okay, so Misty's freaked out. She's thinking about Crystal slash Kristen, right? She's having a hard time. You got to see the CPR again. We got to flashback to it to your favorite moment in Yellow Jackets history. I just want to like much love and respect to Akela who like swoops in here and tries to take over and like tries to help. Tiny note.

Tiny note. If you have just said something about keeping things clean, I would suggest you not stroke your pocket mouth or your pocket nugget if you prefer. Oh, my God. It's so funny. Didn't even occur to me. I was just like, how tender and sweet. It was very sweet to look to Nugget for some help. like keep your hands clean.

You know what I mean? It's a reasonable and fair note. On the Misty front, when she, like you noted the blood on the hands and the flashes to Crystal, I thought it was in the larger context of Misty's relationships with the group and her journey there,

on the heels of falling out so severely with the group following the doom coming incident. I'll phrase it very generously and say, contributing to Crystal's death, having Crystal turn on her, like her quote-unquote bestie being like, I actually don't accept who you are and what you're sharing with me is not okay. And then for Misty to find herself back again in the spot that she was right after the plane crash, you're the only one who actually knows about this. You're the one, even the guy who taught the class on this isn't prepared to help. Everybody turns to Misty. Everybody looks to Misty. And it was like this really painful thing because that's what she has craved for so long and then got and then lost and then got it back here in this moment of real urgent need and has to pull herself out because she is so caught in the spiral of the horrors that she has either inflicted or suffered.

Travis grabs a skull. Like Travis is the one who starts a ceremony, right? It's not Lottie. It's Travis. Lottie is the one who invokes the idea of the offering, but Travis is the one who goes and gets the skull, which was fascinating. Lottie,

it felt to me like Lottie was flirting with him a little bit in this moment, and I just, I don't know, I'm very loyal to Nat, and I'm just like, Lottie back off. As this is happening, hair, a button, whatever they're putting on the skull, we get a little mini-coach Ben daydream break, which is just an very odd moment.

Maybe, again, it's to prime us for, the Shawna alternate reality that we get. And maybe that is part of the point of the whole little Ben trips that he's been taking inside of his mind. But they're playing charades. Again, all of this is extremely on the nose. Rescue Me by Madonna. The lyrics are...

One Life to Live! Yeah, are very... One Life to Live. Airplane, The Shining, Silence of the Lambs. You know, like all of the pop culture references in here are very on the nose. Didn't look to you like they were in a cleaned up, dressed up cabin, the same cabin set? Okay, so I was, I was thinking about this, and it looked to me like, it's visibly different in certain keyways, right? First of all, just how, like, it's set dress.

The books on the wall, but also, like, the wall, the fireplace wall, like, painted green, right? The white trim. So I thought it was, and then we get the windows, which have these, like, identical, like, kind of frosted. pains with the snowstorm outside. It felt like they were presenting this much like the incursion of Shauna's labor into this fantasy that Ben is trying to exist in, this escape from reality that he's trying to build to protect himself. Like they were in the presentation of the space melding those two worlds, right?

Like there's the home, there's the before, and then there's the wilderness all here at once. And they're the antlers behind him. He got his antler queen framing. He did get his antler queen moment. Yeah, they're on the mantle. I mean, Coach Ben being Antler Queen would love to see it. I can't believe that Coach Ben is alive and that they haven't eaten yet. I'm frankly astounded.

There are only three episodes left in season two. When will they eat Coach Ben? Hashtag Coach Ben lives. I love this for him. The, yeah, I need to like, or actually, you know what, I'm sure the subreddit will do it for me. Compare the window panes. But I thought it looked like they had taken the cabin. set and just dressed it up differently and painted it differently.

But you're right. It's very much like an incursion like, I don't know, being on one level of inception and like the other level is sort of, you know, the hotel lights are swaying or something like that, right? It's all sort of coming in. We get the sequence with the placenta. Wait, I have to. I'm sorry, Joe.

I wouldn't be me if I didn't ask you what you thought of Javi's face, which is something we zoom in on. but right before it's it's okay so let's see where exactly this happens this is when

Nat after Misty pulls herself out when Nat goes to ask Coach Ben for help so it's before we go into the Ben sequence and as he's apologizing to Shawna saying he doesn't think he can help with this we like linger on

Harvey now was this just one of many shots of people's very disturbed faces over the course of this episode? Maybe. But do you think that this could mean that Javi was thinking in that moment, I do know somebody who could help with this? I definitely think tall Javi is like, I wonder, and by the way, I'm calling him Tall Javvy because that's what I called Walt. Tall Walt when he came back and he was tall tall. Tall Javvi, I think that he definitely was like, I have a friend who could probably help with this. Yeah, my friend. Should I go get my friend? Yeah. Yeah. The lady of the tree. All right.

Save our baby is what Ladi says. We need to talk about this. I thought it was in the eventual Shawna dream sequence. So I don't want to skip ahead to it, but I'll just mention it because I think it's connected. There are some interesting moments where as she's rocking him,

you know, says to him like, it's just me and you. It's just me and you. against the world. When Nat comes in with the T and sees that he has latched, says she's going to go tell everyone. Shauna says that she just wants this moment.

She asks Nat not to, right? She says she just wants this moment for herself. And those feel like notable. We've had this larger conversation and question of like, when do the splits happen? Like when does this group become, when does this one group become groups plural, right?

When do these clans set in? And what happens in this episode, which is just so tragic, and having, like, part of Shauna's, the Shauna sequence, like, center on this idea of division feels like set up for that. And then it's playing against Lottie

invoking that idea of the baby as theirs. Now, on the one hand, this is kind of like a classic Lottie aspect of the show, because on the one hand, there's like an embrace of the community, found family, right? Like, we will all be here to care and help. But then you can't not think back to Lottie whispering to Shana's stomach.

You're going to change everything. And like what Lottie has sensed or seen or felt, whether there's like some sort of misinterpreted, interpretation happening with whatever Lottie is leaning about the future. It feels like that schism is nearing. As we have been discussing inside the dream space, let's say, as we've been discussing this idea of like, if we have rival leaders, it might as well be a lot of Vichita v. Shauna, probably, but we'll see. the way in which they're fighting over being the mother of this baby, right, nourishing the baby, feeding, hunger, nourishing, all this sort of thing.

I feel like that is, you know, A, a little on the nose would be, like, gut wrenching, etc, et cetera, and then I think that, I mean, I don't know, this is just freaking devastating, absolutely awful, right? Like the birth happens. When Missy says you're so close to being on the other side and then you get to meet your baby and the way in which those words reverberate around the back half hour, right? And then also to your point invoking Lottie saying you're going to change everything, where we leave Shauna at the end of this episode, that feels true. Or they're all devastated. Travis is crying.

Everyone's crying. Everyone's devastated. but Shauna is profoundly broken in a way that we have not yet to encounter in the wilderness here. Before we get there, we get like everyone's so happy. It's a boy, blah, blah. And then speaking of needle drops, this Elliott Smith song hits. I'm always going to cry when an Elliot Smith song hits every time.

It gets me every time. The title of this song is Pistola, which is Yiddish for Little One. And it's a, as most Elliott Smith songs are, it's a song about like love. and heartbreak about a relationship, but you can translate it to mean about any kind of love relationship, right? And I'm not what's missing from your life now. I could never be the puzzle pieces. They say that God makes problems.

Just see what you can stand before you do as the devil pleases. Give up the thing you love, but no one deserves it. The first time I saw you, I knew it would never last. Like, this is absolutely demolishing. And it's also, again, in a way that I think the show is never quite done on this level, the bleed between the past and the present, that this song plays as in, as Shauna enters her dream space and is like happily as her baby. And then it's diogenetically playing in the car scene with Van and Ty. We got the like staying alive cute cross cut before or whatever. But like this bleed of the baby crying or Shauna screaming or whatever entering various dream spaces or.

across time. I think it's, you know, a lot of the actresses around the show talked about this, this being the episode of the season. And you can see why this is like the event, you know, that I think is going to kick off something absolutely, I don't know, devastating. I guess is the only word I can think of. What do you, what do you think? I mean, everything that that happens is just like so gut-wrenching. And it's like deeply, deeply, deeply emotional before we are pulled back into reality. And then when we are, I mean, the wallup of that

is kind of incomparable. But like the moments that we get to build up to that where we get to see Shawna interacting with her child in her own mind. And like, you know, again, it's yellowjackets. So like there's a part of it where like you're going to the theory brain is going to activate. And like there are some parts of it that, you know,

it's like the head wrapping that Shauna is wearing. We, as Yellow Jackets viewers, can't not think, like this looks like a key step on the road to the garb that is present in the pilot. When everybody is decked out and their cloaks and their furs and their face coverings, right? So that's on our mind. I know you're hungry. I'm trying to feed you in this initial stress. where she can't get him to latch.

Like that idea of a hunger that you can't sate, like the hunger that like sets in and then compounds and then where does it lead you? Yeah. And I think in terms of like, not that it's that necessary for this, for us to be like duped by the dream, though I was. I think embedding other things that feel like dreams inside of the dream, like dreams within the dreams, speaking of like inception, right? So like Lottie coming into feeding and saying, our baby's hungry, we need to feed.

I said he needs to feed. You'll understand soon enough. Like that we understand to be a dream that we think is inside of a different dream, you know. But like the interaction between like Nat that you mentioned between Nat and Shauna, where she's like, I'll get you some tea. Like it's so ordinary and quiet that the fact that that is part of the dream too is, you know, shocking in retrospect. Absolutely. I said he needs to feed.

Also, this is like where, you know, the whispers that are part of the sound design are really kicking in, that you'll understand soon enough line that you just mentioned. This made me think of, or wonder, like, a little bit about cabin guy, the hunter. And, like, where have we spent time with him before?

It was in a dream sequence and the moment of death and loss. We've been waiting for you, right, with Jackie's death. So because it's yellow jackets, you know, we have to ask, like, is that, is there actually that presence or that sort of supernatural manifestation here? Or is this Shauna's subconscious presenting these ideas and these questions? Because there have been plenty of things that she's experienced with Lottie, with others. in their own community that would lead to a part of her own mind surfacing that idea, right? There's such a connection between this dream sequence and the Jackie dream sequence,

or I guess the shared Jackie Shauna Dream, if that's what the showrunners decided it is. But like when Jackie comes in and everyone is so nice and welcoming to her and, you know, in an exaggerated way, everyone, it makes sense everyone to be so happy that the baby is here and the baby's healthy, but there's just like an exaggerated happiness and niceness that makes me feel like if I'm putting my like man of science like hat on that this is Shauna nearly dying. And Ty says when she wakes later that they thought they were going to lose her, right? She lost so much blood. Right. And that line that Misty has, you are so close to being on the other side and then you get to meet your baby.

So she goes the other side. She meets her baby and then she comes back. to that point, Joe, like, if that is what's happening, Shauna is about to die and has that kind of experience, well, that makes us think of, like, what happens with Travis and actually, like, the characters who are trying to replicate that kind of experience and what sort of, like, communing you do, what you hear, what you see,

like when you're on the brink like that. But part of what made this such a memorable episode is, again, like, the mixing of those kinds of, like, yellow jacket theory brain questions. with just beautiful writing and incredibly powerful acting. So, female. Oh, my God. The scene, Joe, where she is speaking to her baby, rocking him.

I can't wait to see who you'll become, where you'll go, what you'll do. I mean, like, on a rewatch, knowing what happens, it's just, I'm crying right now. Absolutely. Absolutely devastating. when, yeah, and when the dream baby, like, finally latches and she's just like, they're, you know, like, yes, drink up, drink up, you know, and again. So it's like, I really, I'm crying right now. It's, it's this nourishment, this motherhood, this leadership, this womanhood, this, all of this is in this stew here. I think, I think the writers, this is, you know, I, we're recording this early. I am certain that they have arranged several, interviews to talk about this episode where they will talk about this choice and how seriously they took it and how thoughtfully they did it because that's who they are based on my experience of reading interviews with them. And I thought this is a really beautiful, you know, we've been,

we've been having like, you know, fun, theory, brain, corkboarding, who's, who's Shauna's wilderness baby, et cetera. This was always a possibility. I thought it was sensitively and beautifully done. Of course, there's the horror moment of like everyone's eating the baby in the dream. But Sophie and Lisa's performance in that scene that you invoked there and then when she wakes up, you know, and everyone in that scene, everyone's devastation, but like her just completely cracking in that moment, Jasmine Savoy Brown as well as young Thai, just really, really heartbreaking. Incredible television. Really, really incredible. I can still hear him crying.

Don't you hear him crying? Why can't you hear him? The camera goes black and then we still hear her and then we hear the sound of this humming that we've been hearing sort of all along, but even more so than I think we've ever heard it. Anything else do you want to say? I just think, you know, as you're just mentioning,

it's a very delicate, task what they what they did in this episode you know to have a moment where you zoom in in the hallucination of the entire community coach ben included eating the baby and zoom in on the blood-soaked baby blanket from the prior episode and we see once again the symbol and the blood spatter to be doing things like that juxtaposed against things this serious is not an easy thing

to navigate. I think relatedly I want to be really like careful how I say this. The a large portion of the episode as we talked about earlier

focuses on Shawna talking about not wanting to be a mother. and processing and assessing her own relationship to what we now understand was this loss, but also to her relationship with Callie, to her relationship with Jeff, to the life that she ended up living. And not everybody wants to be a mother. And that's okay. Absolutely okay.

That is completely okay. And also, it is true that people can change their minds about things. and that the protective impulses that Shauna feels in the present day when she is saying to Saracusa, like, get away from my kid is also a fierce thing inside of her. And I don't think an episode like this works if the show isn't thinking about the subtlety and the delicacy and the sensitivity of how these decisions and choices and moments relate to each other. I think it is completely okay to never once ever want to be a mother. Absolutely.

But I think it is interesting to examine this particular case where Shana has this change of heart as, you know, her baby's latching, et cetera. And then to think about that interrogation scene at the beginning of the episode where she talks about how hard it is for her to love her husband and Callie and how you can understand why someone who experiences something is. devastating is what happens to her in this episode, how they might carry that with them. You know, and that's not to say that that happens to everyone who miscarries or Deliver's Stillborn or anything like that, you know, obviously.

But for this character, this is a key component that we were missing to understanding her psychologically, something we were sort of fearing, but it's true. Did it look to you like Shauna looks directly at the camera when she says, why can't you hear him? Absolutely. Like, my heart stopped. It was like she was asking. And not only was she looking directly at the camera, but everybody else has melted away, right?

Initially, there's a wave of a departure and only Ty is there and Ty is cradling her, tie is holding her, and then even Ty leaves. And it is Shawna and her anguish and us. And she is looking at us and saying, why can't you hear him cry? Why can't you hear him as they fade to black? It was an incredibly intense way to end the episode. Thank you for talking about this episode of television with me, Mallory. I love you very much.

Thank you guys for listening to this episode. We're going to, as gracefully as we can, transfer back out of this space into just talking about two last things before we go. Was there a needle drop that struck you particularly in this episode, Mallory? I prick you one to make a selection for, but I really loved the Elliott Smith. I'm going to go with that. It's beautiful. Yeah. I love that.

That's what my nana always used to say, Pitzla. Grew up in a Yiddish-speaking household. That's so beautiful. I was thinking of you. I was, because you're the person I know who knows the most Yiddish. And then in our Lost Com, so should we talk about a little bit, something of a joke is made of what happens to the character Claire Littleton on Lost in terms of, like, her baby is gone and she cracks. essentially and is like cradling a thing that is not a baby that, you know, she thinks is her baby and

stuff like that. But I could not help but think about Claire. Poor Claire. Yeah. Absolutely. In this sequence. And then we got an email from listener Lish who wrote in to talk about season one sort of storyline and lost centering on Dom Manny's character, Charlie. She says after Charlie gets kidnapped and hung by Ethan, he doesn't speak for a really long time. He just stare at it. is into the fire. It doesn't speak to anyone, including his best friend on the island or her. Similarly, Javi, tall Javvy, doesn't speak to anyone, including his own brother when they try to get any information out of him. The only time Charlie speaks is when he alludes to the fact that they aren't alone on the island. He says, all they wanted was Claire, all they wanted was Claire,

which is very similar to what Javi does when he tells Ben, she told me not to come back. Do you think that Javi was ever in a band called Drive Chefs? My first question. for you. Do you think Javi knows how to swim? This is my other question for you. Oh my God. Painful. Who is? So if Javi is the Charlie, like who's

the Echo figure going to be? Oh, God. I don't know. That's a fun question. I mean, is that going to be an, you know, because Echo is added later? Is that going to be someone we have yet to meet? Interesting.

I love Mr. Echo. Should have stayed longer. That does it for us on this episode of the Prestige TV podcast. Thanks, of course, always to Carla Shiroboga for his great production work on this episode and all of our episodes. We'll look back for episode seven next week, which is called burial. So I'm sure things are just going to get cheerier on yellow jackets. Thank you for listening again. And like, you know, if you have thoughts or feelings about the storyline or the way we talked about it or whatever, hops and dragas at gmail.com, I would love to hear from you all.

And I was already very obviously deeply invest in the show, but I thought this episode was stunning and a real like sort of level up moment for this season. All right. See you soon. Bye. This episode is brought to you by Netflix's remarkably bright creatures. What if a Pacific octopus held the key to a mystery that could heal your heart? Well, that's Tova's reality. An elderly widow working at an aquarium.

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