The Prestige TV Podcast - ‘Yellowjackets’ Season 2, Episode 7 Recap

Episode Date: May 12, 2023

Mallory and Joanna break down ‘Yellowjackets’ Season 2, Episode 7: "Burial." They get into everyone’s reaction to Lottie’s “intentional community,” Van’s tragic reveal, and the cops finding Adam’s body. They also discuss everything happening in the 1996 timeline, from Shauna unleashing her anger on Lottie to Misty’s fake search for Crystal. Then, of course they had to talk about Misty’s incredible musical vision. Hosts: Joanna Robinson and Mallory Rubin Associate Producer: Carlos Chiriboga Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

You may find this hard to believe, but 60 Saws That Explain the 90s, America's favorite poorly named music podcast, is back with 30 more songs and 120 songs total. I'm your host, Rob Harvilla, here to bring you more trude musical analysis, poignant nostalgic reveries, crude personal anecdotes, and rad special guests, all with even less restraint than usual. Join us once more on 60 Saws That Explain the 90s, starting Wednesday, May 17th, on Spongers. This episode is brought to you by Borishead. What if we told you the taste of deep fried turkey is now available at your local deli?

Well, Borershead just did that. Bursting with flavor, perfectly seasoned with that indulgent taste that usually means planning your whole day around it. Presenting the friar's turkey breast only from Borershead. The backyard tradition now available behind the counter. Visit your local deli today. Discover the craftmanship behind every bite. Borershead committed to craft since 1905.

This episode is brought to by Whole Foods Market. Spring is here, so celebrate it with fresh, juicy, seasonal produce and some very tasty, limited time flavors. New Whole Foods, Market Peach, Apricot, Rose, Italian soda. Perfect for a picnic or brunch, as is their trending mango, Yuzu, chantilly cake. But if you're on the go, new 365 strawberry pretzels make a great sweet snack. That sounds delicious. Get savings with yellow sale sign storewall.

and everyday low prices on 365 brand items. Enjoy the fresh flavors of spring. Save at Whole Foods Market. The truth is all around you. You refuse to see it. You're looking at the floor when you should look at the magic. How much do we all count on you?

How many times did you get the ball over the goal line? Take it from a bird named after a Roman emperor who was also. so unjustly accused of heinous acts, you are not a murderer, Misty. You're a closer. Hello. Welcome back to the Prestige TV podcast. I'm Jenna Robinson.

And just before joining me today, Malie Rubin let me know that if she were to eat one body part of a friend, if you're stranded somewhere, she would go straight for the high calorie butt meat. Hello, Molly Rubin. How are you? Joe, this is self-care? I was expecting, like, a massage or maybe a mud bath with some self-reflective questions. No, it's goats all the way down here on the podcast today.

We're here to talk about season two, episode seven, burial. I don't know why I can't say that word, burial. Burial, how do you say it? Burial, burial, burial. But I got the Baltimore coming through. Burial. Before we get into all that, quick program reminders in this feed, we've got coverage of succession. We may or may not have any more Barry coverage, question mark, 2BD, but there's a lot going

on the feed, prestige feed. You want to follow that. Over on the ring of verse, Mallory and I just did a very long deep dive into Guardiansing is the Galaxy Volume 3. We're doing a-long one, us? Us? We're doing a height meter podcast next week, and that's a great way for you to know what are some exciting projects coming on the horizon. And then the week after that, we are doing the second installment of our Doctor Who rewatch pods, which are really, really fun. I started. I started my watch of season two with the Rosen 10 this week and I got really excited.

So that's all happening, Ring ofverse, and Prestige. Mallory, how can folks make sure they keep abreast of it all? Thanks for asking, Joanna. My first recommendation would be to follow the pod. Follow the pod, this one, the Prestige TV podcast,

The Ring Reverse, trial by content, follow all of the pods on Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts. while you're at it, you're thinking, hey, I'd love to see some updates. I'd love to know when pods go live. I'd love to see some memes. I'd love to hang out with my pals

through the power of an internet connection. In addition to listening to the pods after you follow the pods, you can check out the ringers myriad social feeds and great news. That's not all. You can send us your thoughts. You can send us your musings.

The inbox is open. Hobbits and Dragons at gmail. Brilliant. Brilliant. Some truly disgusting emails this week in the old inbox, which we will get to. Like it repulsed even me and that's just hard to do, I think. Okay. So as I mentioned, season two episode seven, burial, written by Julia Bicknell and Elise Brown directed by Anya Adams. Oh, there's another new version of the opening credit song if you're like, oh, that sounds the same but different, but new, but the same. That is still Alana's Moore said on the vocals, but it is remixed by the show's composers, Craig Wedron and Anna Wronker.

If I got those names pronounced incorrectly, I do apologize. But my pal Genio and Youngs, who was a great musician in her own right, let me know that Craig and Anna are like legends themselves, and I've been listening to their bands and it's been pretty fun. So, you know, tons of needle drops

in this episode of Yellow Jackets. We will talk about them all. Yeah. Very musical episode. In terms of the title, burial, now I feel fine saying that word. I don't know what was wrong with me before. You're crushing it. You're thriving.

Thanks. Thank you. Maybe you used to say it differently, but you've repressed it and you don't recall. And now you're trying to. Burial? I feel like I say burial for some reason. I don't know why. Yeah, I'm going to try to unburry it.

Is that you're saying? What are some of the things that are buried and unburied in this episode, Mallory? Joe, as is often the case with a yellowjacket's title. This one could be applied. to many of our characters, to many moments in time, in many ways. Sometimes it's quite literal. Sometimes it's a little bit more thematic.

You know, we have some very sad burials like Shauna, burying her baby. We have the entire wilderness crew in the past making their way out through the snow, digging, not only opening the door, but buckets, whatever they can get their hands on the buckets that aren't full of shit of human excrement

using them to pave the new path. What about those memories that we were just alluding to? There's a lot of discussion in this episode about what is repressed, whether you want to unearth that or not. And then, of course, there are certain versions of yourself, Alt-Tie. Crushed it last week with your is-Loddy talking to herself theory

in these sessions. So another version of Lottie. why do we oppress a part of ourselves? So the burials are many and varied, vast and varied in this episode. Any others? Unburied, on the unburied front, I mean, Crystal's body is not where it's supposed to be, and that either it's moved or Missy's just very bad at searching. But it looked like roughly the right spot to me.

Yeah. I'm just going to say that Crystal is in the hatch, without question. Okay. But, like, alive or dead. Well, you know. She looked so dead. There's a song frozen in her throat, but did the gurgling, boiling blood that Misty pumped up through her throat defrost the song and maybe Crystal too?

Who can say? Wow. Stay tuned. Always great to talk about Yellowjack. It's always a very normal conversation that we have with each other. I'm glad this isn't one of the ones we have at lunchtime. All right. Also, very, very significantly unburied is one Mr. Adam.

This was tough. Not hobby. So, well, you know, listen, Misty's serial killer tendencies come up again in this episode. And I have some questions about her ability to handle a crime scene based on this. Well, is she the one who buried? We'll get to that. Well, are you trusting? Well, she took the head and put the head in.

the coffin to incinerate it, right? Gloria. So I think someone else was on buried duty and they did not do a great job. You just can't trust your lieutenants who had to call you in in the first place. Yeah. To do everything right, Misty. Do it yourself. All right. Because I feel like they're not going to find Jessica, but they found out of them.

That's what I feel is going on. I mean, isn't Jessica just dead in the middle of a road? I mean, that's really, we are always like tracking threads from past Yellowjackets episodes. but that is increasingly a paramount one. Vehicles abandoned in the middle of a road. The one in which Tye's assistant. Terished. Tye's assistant's car left abandoned in the middle of an open expanse.

I really hope that before she turned her phone over in this episode, Ty dropped a pin to let her assistant know where her car was. Unreliable narrator, hallucinator, corner. Yeah, take me throw up. Poor Shana is, you know, still processing. what happened with her. So she's still having flashes of, you know, all of her pals eating her baby. Delightful. Ben got perhaps his final. We'll see. But it seemed like a farewell. And then, as you alluded to, good old Lottie talking to herself in therapy. Like, having a real normal one in therapy.

Our girl a lot. Do I miss anyone? I mean, I guess you could say that given the conversation with the entire adult cast about what they remember, how hazy things are, what they are content to not on earth, that like the episode kind of went out of its way to ask, what are our characters aware of, period, from the past. Now, that's a little bit different, but it did extend to the group at large. and like they each had a little bit of a different response and relationship to that idea. But it was a pretty broad catch-all. Very significant. Yeah.

Can't be sure that the person who's living in some sort of parallel track that are drawing these thematic ties for us across the 25-year time span necessarily recall the original point that we're comparing things to, or at least in full. That being said, when we talk to showrunners the beginning of the season and asked them sort of about this unreliable narrator situation, they were telling us that at least like the scenes we see in the wilderness in the past, they're not trying to like trick us.

They usually like reveal within minutes or in Shauna's case last episode, many minutes that what you're seeing is not real, at least in the past with Lottie, I guess it was a multi-episode con with a therapist. Last and not least, of course, in this category is Misty and her musical moment. We'll get to that in depth, I promise you. But I mean, the reason we're doing this little segment every week is just because it's something that the show relies heavily on, different flavors, different strains of it, both in the past and of the present. And it's something I just like want us to continue to keep our eyes on because I think there is a tipping point of too much. And I'm not saying we're there yet, but it is just something that is on my mind. Emails Corrections Department.

This is a great one. This is an all timer for me. All timer for me, Mallory. Do you remember last week you were like, hey, Join, are you learning French? And I was like, no, I speak French, Mallory. In that same episode, I mispronounced the title of the episode, which is in French. It's QUI. I don't want to talk about how I pronounce this, but it's key.

It's a basic, a very basic French word that one learns, right? I'm getting a key, whatever. Yeah, just pompously said I spoke French and then mispronounce a very basic word. Our listeners were very nice about it. How is your attempt to learn Swedish going, by the way? I don't want to talk about it. No, one of our listeners sent me some gray phrases, including which body part would you eat first in Swedish?

I'd say careful out there in the world with that one. I don't know that everyone would know you were talking about making a reference to cannibalism and yellow jackets. It might sound like an invitation for a fun night getting to know each other. What if it's just like a really cool icebreaker that I can use at our Spotify retreat that we're going to where tons of people. have never met me. And I'm like, hi, quick question, quick cue. Which body part would you eat? And I'll say it in Swedish. It should be very impressive. Okay. Love it. You should try that.

See how it goes? Yeah. We also, we failed to mention that it, I think as the episode cuts to black in last week's episode, we hear someone say Shauna and it's Jackie's voice. We didn't, we just didn't mention it. I'm not saying we did notice it, but we didn't mention it. A lot of people wanted to make sure that we did. So there you go. Zach, okay, here, okay, we've talked about a lot of consumption of things on this podcast. I really want to give a stern warning to folks that you, I want you to, like, I want your stomach to be settled and for you to be ready for me to read this next email because it turned my stomach, okay? But I'm going to read anyway. I might take off my headphones.

Deeply, deeply disturbing. Carry on. Zach said, Zach wrote in to say, I think we're overlooking Sean's ability to still produce breast milk even without the baby.

If they, meaning these starving children in the woods, if they can develop a proper suction device, they could begin harvesting enough milk to not only drink,

but also turn into cheese or butter. I bet human cheese is better than goat cheese. All right. Uh-huh. Yeah. Bye.

are beautiful. Women are beautiful and their many functions. Mother's milk, the sustenance of life, that's wonderful. I just think the phrasing, I bet human cheese is better than goat cheese is, it's a lot. It's a lot for us to read it. I underlined it. I put it in bold and I italicized it. All three of the things that I could do to it I did because it was so upsetting. So thanks, Zach, for that. I'll be thinking about whether human cheese is better than goat cheese. All right, if you're still with us, a palate cleanse. A crisp tart palate cleanser. Here's the deal.

What you Apple propagandists don't know when you write into Hobbits and Dragons at e-mail.com is that I check the email and Mallory doesn't. So that means Granny Smith propaganda has a much better chance of coming through than anything else. Mallory reads plenty of emails. I forward them to her. She loves your emails. Nick wrote, I exclusively purchased Granny Smith apples. I don't have a huge sweet tooth. So I do generally prefer the sour taste anyway, but the primary reason is for the old-time top-tier snack, apples and peanut butter. The tart sourness of the apple contrasts perfectly with the fatty sweetness of the peanut butter and the dense texture makes them perfect for scooping. A mealy red delicious could never. A tiny McIntosh could barely support the weight if you haven't tried it prepare for your life to be changed.

You know those moments when you've been engaged in what feels like it will be a forever war and you feel. think and you ponder, will I ever see my way through to a conclusion, to an outcome? A compromise? I'd like to thank Nick for handing me the W here. No. I'm not interested in a didon, but no. Oh, you're changing this L into a dub. Classic Mallory Rubin bullshit.

And Nick, thank you for your email. It's lovely to hear from you. This is with, with respect. and affection, what we like to refer to as an own goal. Because if your point of comparison is a Macintosh, I mean, or a red delicious,

then of course you're going to prefer a Granny Smith. Even I think a Granny Smith is better than those other two. Allow yourself to enjoy a higher form of apple. I dip Pink Lady apples into peanut butter and they're wonderful. I think pink ladies and costing stress are too sweet for the... The pink lady has a little bit of a sweet tart thing going to, Joe. There is nothing that beats a truly sour Granny Smith.

I have one right here, by the way. I'm not going to eat it into the mic because I know people have issues listening to people, too. So I would never do that to our listeners after saying the phrase human cheese. It's a lot right here at the top today. But I love sour stuff. As you know, I spend the bulk of my time at night for just personal pleasure and leisure eating sour Petch kids. That's true.

So I am not opposed to the salerous. It's just that there are more delicious offerings. And I love dipping apples and peanut butter. It's a routine morning snack for me. Great for 11 C's, Joe. The daint is this. What if we're just looking for different things in an apple? And I like super tart and you like pleasantly sweet.

And I like delicious stuff. And I like delicious. stuff and you like delicious stuff. And our definitions of delicious stuff are subjective. I want apple peas, not apple worse. That's not true. I want the Apple Wars to continue forever. Keep sending your Apple thoughts to Hobbits and Dragons at Gmail.com. You send anything pro-pink lady. I'm going to bury it. Okay. Much like things are buried in this episode. Let's get to the episode breakdown. Snoring, gasping during sleep, feeling fatigue, ask your doctor about zebbound. Ters appetite. The first and only FDA

prescription medicine for moderate to severe obstructive sleep apnea, OSA, and adults with obesity. Zepbound is a prescription medicine used with a reduced calorie diet and increased physical activity to help adults with moderate to severe obstructive sleep apnea, OSA, and obesity to improve their OSA. Zetbound is approved as a 2.5, 5, 7.5, 10, 12.5, or 15 milligram injection. Zepound contains terseptide and should not be used with other terseptide-containing products or any GLP1 receptor agonist medicines. It is not known if Zepbound is safe and effective for use in children. Don't share needles or pins or reuse needles.

Don't take if allergic to it, or if you or someone in your family had medullary thyroid cancer, or if you've had multiple endocrine neoplasia syndrome type 2. Tell your doctor if you get a lump or swelling in your neck. Stop Zepound and call your doctor if you have severe stomach pain or a serious allergic reaction. Severe side effects may include inflamed pancreas or gallbladder problems. Tell your doctor if you experience vision changes before scheduled procedures with anesthesia. If you're nursing, pregnant, plan to be, or taking birth control pills.

Taking Zepbound with a sulfonel urea or insulin may cause low blood sugar. Side effects include nausea, diarrhea, and vomiting, which can cause dehydration and worsened kidney problems. Talk to your doctor. Call 1-800-545-99 or visit Zepbound.lily.com. It's time to refresh your yard during spring backyard days at the HomeDee. Get low prices guaranteed on propane grills starting at $179, like the next grill three-burner gas grill. Or get $50 off a select Weber Spirit grill and bring big flavor to your backyard. Then set the scene with Hampton Bay string lights that bring it all together.

Shop spring backyard days for seven days at the Home Depot. Now through May 6th. Exclusion supplies to homedipo.com slash price match for details. You said this place was steps from the water. We just haven't found the steps yet. How much did we save? Enough. Enough to get lost.

Or you could book a stay with Hilton. Welcome to your ocean front room. Just steps from the water. The Hilton sale is on now. Book on Hilton.com or the Hilton app and save up to 20% to get the stay you expected. When you want savings, not surprises. It matters where you stay.

Hilton for the stay. We're going to go as we usually do character by characters a little complicated. the way the groupings are working this week. So we're going to start with the You All Everybody. That's what I'm going to call it the Everyone sections. You all everybody.

That's a you all everybody. We can email sometimes where people are like, could you talk about Lost Less? And I'm like, I don't think so. Thanks for the suggestion. Fast. We're present day at the Purple Bee Farm. And Misty,

ever the joiner, ever the quick to adopt the authoritative voice of whatever team she has joined is collecting everyone's possessions. Ty asks the reasonable question of Misty and Natalie have joined the cult. Lottie gives us the old, we are an intentional community, and Van, my queen says, what is the intention exactly?

Some amazing van. Lord Amos. Absolutely. This is like what she's pulling through here because like for people who love Lauren Ambrose, like the main thing most people talk about is six feet under. But I first fell in love with her and can't hardly wait. And this is some real Denise Sardonic can't hardly wait flavor from Lauren Ambrose this week. It makes me really happy. An amazing performance. This is much later in the episode. I'll try not to jump ahead too much,

but while we're praising the deliveries, when Missy was saying when you know, you know about Walter and Bansett. Does he know? Great stuff. not just puts it right out there. She's like, by the way, BD. Dubbs, I had a shotgun in my mouth. Like, I was going to end it. Now that it's all in on this community. She has done a full 180, right? I wanted to ask you about this. Oh, do you think she's still on a con? What do you think? Well, I think that her current emotional state and her experience processing what she is processing, following, reliving that experience with Travis, the number of times we have now subsequently heard the utterance of like bringing this,

the idea of bringing the darkness back, needing to deal with it. I think that her, the way that she implores the others to embark on a similar journey, the breakthroughs that she had, has had with Lisa. Like all of that, I actually think does feel sincere.

I'm wondering if it's a classic two things can be true at once where she is experiencing a level of progress and like beneficial introspection that is unlocking something. But like, do we think that that has come? tandem with her completely abandoning her stated quest to find out and destroy Lottie for everything that she's doing. And like they have moments in this episode that made me, like, I was a little, I was mostly

really feeling the progression and the change for Nat. And there's like the little like nozzle and like the, the, during the dance and like the bonding and all of that. The invitation. calling back to Nat kind of playing the role of like, I think it's time, you know, that Lottie had previously played for her. But there are like a little, there are a couple notes like when Lottie is putting her hand on her chest to share her philosophy and Nat does it in a way that almost seems like she's mocking her. And I'm just like, I don't know. Have we like, is she given up completely?

I hear you. I did not take that as mocking. I noted that. I didn't take it as mocking. I took it as like just truly all in. And I think it is a result of her vulnerable state that she has just let herself be completely swept away, the way that very smart people can allow themselves to be by a charismatic leader. And I think the thing about Lottie, and I think it's interesting to compare Nat, who was the most skeptical,

who is oddly, I mean, is either Nat or Shauna, you can take your pick. But, like, is Nat is oddly absent from the 96 scenes in this episode. She shows up for the fight at the end, but she's, like, largely absent. And compare it to Van once the quickest to believe now the most skeptical. And I think that's an intentional flip-flop, right? That's to me, like, the most compelling reason that it's genuine in addition to just, like, in a vacuum, Nat's own journey over the last few episodes in the present timeline. I think because that's kind of true for all the characters.

Like Shauna, which we'll get to, has like a real unvarnished emotional breakthrough in this episode. We would also put her in the true skeptic. camp. So like almost everybody who is in one camp in the past has flipped in the present and there's an inversion across the group. And so I think Nats, Nats change of heart or change of perspective kind of has to be sincere for that to lock in full. So I agree. And that is my read on it too. There's just that tiny voice of like, she stated her mission. Will that be gone for it? I just don't think it's going to stay that way. Like, you know, not to get too far ahead of things, But like, okay, we're all copacetic dancing around a fire like in this episode.

We've got a couple more episodes this season to go. And like there are some hints dropped in this episode that like how far is Lottie or any of them? How far are they willing to take it? How far back into their wilderness behavior are they willing to go in order to touch that sort of primal power idea again? Or find solutions to the problems or answers to the questions that they have. have. And I think that they will come a line for some of them, right? You know, because, like, I do think that bloodletting will start again in the present day timeline, whether or not that involves human, she eating, eating people, you know what I mean? Like, we're going to be sacrificing

people. Perhaps Travis being the first of, you know, a certain kind, when will Nat say, okay, no, I'm not okay with that. You know what I mean? Yeah. And I think that that kind of connects to that season-long discussion point. We've been, we've been noodling over of like how it's not an either or. It's not just at one point you felt this and then at another point you feel that and that's your whole journey that the characters are kind of constantly on this seesaw oscillating back and forth between that man of science, man of faith camp and like what the triggers are to shift them between them. And this was like a really interesting episode for that.

And I think in general, like, watching Lonnie in this episode, again, not to like jump all around, but like there's the sequence where some of the girls, I think like Jen and Melissa are talking about like, oh, did we give up Crystal and the baby? And in return, the wilderness made it stop snowing. Is that what happened? And then Lottie very confidently just says, no, it doesn't work like that. And there's something about the way that Lottie is just, like, confident with her answers as she gives to these women in the present day throughout this episode. She's just, like, here and confident with her answers, that it goes a long way towards creating, like, a Messiah figure. If someone's just sort of like, oh, you're searching, I have an answer and I'm going to say it confidently. You know what I mean?

I think that's, like, a really key thing to watch in Lottie, you know? Yeah, absolutely. But I'll save the, I have a thought on the haggling certainty that is expressed in the past. I'll save it for when we get to that later. But I think that she's, I think that the false therapy session reveals that she has a different perspective on that now in a way that is like potentially quite alarming. Well, yeah, I think it's, I think what we see in the therapy session, the full blown zies antler queen philosophy is going to be something that they're going to evolve to in the one. wilderness, right? That's what it seems like. We'll see. All right, back to the beginning of this session. Anyway, point being, there's a bunch of stuff on the menu in terms of, you know,

therapies, self-care guidance, forage renewal. I would have gone for forage. I love to look for a mushroom. That's what I would have hoped it would have been. I don't know what it was supposed to be. Van just went to go find some tequila. That's also fun for me. So, you know, any of those. I love it. We already mentioned that Van is like the most skeptical. She's like going to leave until Ty picks something and then Van sort of stays seemingly because Ty did, Van like sort of resignedly says, okay, I'll stay. She finds out like Lottie, Lottie. I love her delivery here. Lottie's delivery of like, Switzerland. That was over a decade ago. After we've heard all of them be like, isn't she still in Switzerland? She's like, guys, I was 10. I wasn't in Switzerland for like 25 years.

What are you talking about? Yeah. And part of it was like, I think, just to show their lack of awareness that she had returned. But it also made me feel like she was going out of her way to to say like, oh, that version of me that you might be worried about. That was a long time ago. I'm better now, quote unquote, better now. Shawna picks self-care, fan picks forage. Misty's left with, poor Misty. She's like Forage and then she gets shocked over.

She tried so hard. Left with guidance. Yeah. This is a mystery box show. What a mystery box show shows you a phone number? What do you do? You call that phone number. And of course, I called the phone number that's on the wall in, uh, in, uh,

that Lottie is like text the landline number to whoever needs it, points to it on the wall. Carlos, will you play what you hear when you call this number? Hello, wanderer. You've reached Sunshine Honey's wellness community. Probably located at the former site of Camp Green Pine in Majestic Northern. It's not. Do you ever wonder where you are? Are you somewhere feeling lonely, wandering between the who and the when or slurice?

with the why. If so, hello. We are here and ready to believe you. But we're still here and we're still listening. Don't be afraid to say the words that move the winds. We'll hear you if you hear us. Horrify. Very upsetting.

Horrify. I like the incorporation of the kind of disrupting tones in between certain bits of dialogue, much like in a sequence like the ones we've been experiencing with Coach Ben, you know, the use of like a visual static to indicate a shifting reality. Yeah. Well, that was distressing, I have to say. I will not be visiting Sunshine Honey anytime soon. I'll be canceling my weekend plans.

I hope Simone Castle had a really, it sounded like she had a really fun time, like, recording that. Yeah, and what's really fun is that that's like a local number for the area that there in like 607 is the right area code and then it hangs up on you like you hear that recording and the phone hangs up on you so um good jobs showtime publicity that's really fun in terms of texting people obviously like uh shana texted jeff because he knew to call her where to call her later do you think tie texted her son and or steve the dog like what's what's going on with sammy how do we feel sammy sammy watch 2023 i remain quite distra

and concerned for the welfare of Sammy and, of course, sweet Steve. You know, did Ty text Simone, who is hospitalized and ailing after the crash as far as we know, to say I am leaving your wedding band on A Rock by a Campfire, and then I'm going to go hook up with Van and it's going to be pretty hot. Call me if anything comes up. Thanks. Bye. Bye. Good question.

Great question. I, here's the thing about Sammy. And it's the same thing about Tall Hobby. It is just always dangerous to cast a small child in your show that is not taking place over too much time. Because Sammy is going to be turning into Tall Sammy. And like I just, I'm worried we're like never going to see Sammy again. That would be sad. It would be sad.

In the cabin, 1996. This is where we open. with perhaps the needliest drop to ever drop on Yellow Jackets, we opened the episode with something the way by Nirvana. Mallory had to make you feel her. You're ready to go to Gotham with Robert Pattinson? Yeah, it made me feel like I was back in Gotham with you and Matt Reeves pot in about the Batman, Joe.

This was like, I loved this, and I thought that it was very effectively deployed here. it is a little bit bold to use this needle drop. Not that she's not that yellow jacket should not do it because the Batman did. But it's hard for me to think of a needle drop that we associate more fully with a thing that came out in the last couple years than this song and the Batman. I mean, it was in the trailers. It was in the marketing. It was in the film.

It was just like top, tip of the tongue for everybody for months on end there. So yeah. that's a strong choice. Like you said, some doozies in this episode. Everyone just looks absolutely. Yes, exactly. Is that where yellow jackets takes place? Earth 2 confirmed?

You got a little chocolate in your peanut butter, a little ring of verse and your prestige here. Everyone looks absolutely shell-shocked and traumatized by this. They're also what we discover, as you alluded to earlier, Like, they've been snowed in. So not only did Shauna lose her baby, but they have all been trapped in there with, like, this tiny corpse and, you know, every, every associated smell and everything, you know, just like sitting in it trapped. And Lottie's the one who sees that the snow has stopped. And as you also alluded to earlier, the first line of dialogue we hear is they, as Travis Renncher.

the door open is, hey, someone grabbed the bucket, which means the shit bucket has been overflowed. Brim it over. The way they all gulp for air, man, when they open the door. I mean, yeah, to be trapped there

obviously with the actual like visceral sensations, but just with that grief to not be able to go. And the way the Ty tries to coax Shawna to go take a walk, to go get some air, that it'll be good for her. And it was so, so sad to see, you know, everybody, they're all doing different things,

but they're all sort of like getting back to work in essence, right? Like, what would the chores be? Let's get our campfire site ready again, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. Set up the kitchen, blah, blah, yeah. Yeah. And Shauna, you know, goes off to bury her baby. Of course, the ground is too frozen, which we already know. So, you know, uses these rocks that reminded, I felt like we were in.

in two towers, Joe, with saying goodbye to Theodred. And the choice to repeat in this moment is it's you and me against the whole world. And to position Shauna once again, especially in an episode where she is back with the group in the present timeline at Long Last and is dancing and singing and connecting again with people. like the loneliness and the isolation is just so stark and so severe here. And, you know, this is not the first time that Shauna has had to bury somebody this season. You know, we think back to Jackie and everything that transpired there and her time with Jacksicle, but also those final words, that eulogy, I'll never have another friend like you. I don't even know where you end and I begin.

I'm sorry and I love you. And, you know, later we see Shauna go back to the meet. to the meat shed and call out to Jackie and cry and mourn with this like desperate grief and longing for like another person. And it's just, you know, it's not that no one else is there for her. Ty is others try to be, but she is just apart. And I think I think that I've seen a lot of really interesting discussion about this idea of like what it means to devour something or someone in the context of this show. So when you think of the way in which Shauna almost consumed Jackie before she consumed Jackie, you know, I don't know where you end and I begin sort of thing. And similarly, you know, to have a baby inside of you, that is a very similar feeling.

I don't know where you end and I begin. And similarly also this idea of the whole entire community as, you know, we see these girls all traumatized by this. There is this idea that I find so fascinating of like the group consumption of, like, the way in which other people feel like they own someone's pregnancy. Like the way people will feel free to like put their hands on a pregnant woman's belly and stuff like that, that sort of like our baby kind of thing. So the way in which the baby was already being like consumed by the group in that way because they were looking for something, some hope in the shape of this new baby, etc. So again, even if it's not literal consumption, you know, because later Shauna says, you ate my baby, there is like this possessiveness that she felt around the baby the last few months of her pregnancy. And so I think also in this episode when we get Shauna's whole like goat-based, Bruce-based therapy and her talking about not being able to love Callie, it's because of these pieces of her, Jackie and then the baby, that she,

gave away and buried and was not able to see it as anything, but it's you and me against the whole world, right? She wasn't able to bring in Jeff or Callie into that because she had made this packed in the snow in the wilderness 25 years ago. And she, you know, for various reasons that she states overtly in this episode, but she just wasn't able to recalibrate that. It's devastating. And a really emotionally intelligent insight into Shauna's psyche. Because I think there's something about Melanie Linsky, you know, the softness and the sharpness that she contains at the same time that makes us able to understand Shauna even when it's kind of hard to understand Shauna, even when she does things that we don't understand

or we don't agree with, et cetera, et cetera. I've never had a hard time being with her on the journey because of who Melanie Lelinski is, but now I feel like this is such a turn key in terms of me understanding a skeleton key in terms of me understanding like why she is the way she is in many ways. Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. All right.

Let's talk about my girl Misty. Quite an episode for Misty. Phenomenal Misty episode. Back in that, let's do the 96th. We're going to do the 96th time. Like before we get to my musical treat. Mari, Jen, and Akila are talking about Chris. Crystal, right? And Mari is being, like, full-blonesies classic Mari, but she's also right, right?

Where she's like, do you think maybe possibly she killed her friend, maybe? Because she's missing? For you, this is real, like, worst person in the world that has a point meme stuff. I can't, I will say, the framing of this in the way it was filmed, I just thought was strange. Like, on the one hand, there's a kind of classic. And I do like the moments even in the wilderness setting where it feels just like high school life, teenage life, what it's like to be a young person. And hearing snippets of other people who you, like, no, haven't accepted you or welcomed you into the fold talking shit about you is like the most true to life teen thing you can imagine. But I'm just like, are we really supposed to believe that they don't see her? She's like 10 feet away. She's like right there. Kind of obstructed sort of by like a beam of wood. But not really. I thought that was. strange anyway. Plus, she's not in exactly like camo gear or anything like that. Yeah. I think they've done a really good job this season. Crystal aside, I think like characters

like Jen, Mari, Melissa, who's always running a baseball cap, like, you know, again, in terms of like slowly introducing us to other characters, like, I feel like I have a sense of a Jen and a Melissa at this point, which is nice. They've done, they've done their job. They did not, Nikki and Palo it. Big Melissa episode. I think it's a really interesting. So Melissa is the one wondering, like, perhaps did the wilderness take the baby in Crystal? And again, this is like, we've talked about this before, this idea of, like, why do you create an idea of a wilderness that has an active will, a spirit, a God, a whatever, a force that has an active will external to you?

And it's a way to sort of absolve yourself of responsibility for anything you. do, right? Because later, when Jen suggests that maybe they find Crystal dead, that it wouldn't be the worst thing, and Melissa says it would be disrespectful to the wilderness to waste it. But still, I hope she's okay. Again, that's like, it's, you're turning something horrifying, eating a pal into an act of, like, respect and deference to a power. It's the will of force. Yeah. Yeah. And the structures that people create or opt into for some framework, for a way to understand life, for a way to tap into faith, to think about what comes after death, et cetera, like, the moments where then you use that to

excuse or justify a decision that you make is obviously like a very real thing. And the specific rendering here is an extreme scenario. But this just feels like a very recognizable way that belief manifests and becomes a part of the way that people navigate their own choices. I liked when Akila observed that it made the blizzard stop and it was real like come on prestige TV, Akila territory, just tracking the patterns. She's always on Theory Corner. Well, hell, it made the blizzard stop. Maybe this is a supernatural show.

We love Akila. What else do you want to say about this haggling concept that Lottie brings up here? So I can I think that there's like the way we think about this in terms of what we've seen from Lottie in the past in prior episodes and then what we get from Lottie in the present timeline later in this episode. So I can hit it here.

I can hit it later when we get to the therapy scene. In terms of the past, I was wondering like that idea, no, it doesn't work like that. It doesn't treat or haggle the wilderness. It hears us. It gives us what we wanted. Shawna lived.

I was just thinking like not to, okay, to be clear, I'm not implying that I think Lottie didn't want Shana to live. That's not how I feel about it or what I believe is true. But yeah, it's a spin. The number of beats. Yeah, the number of beats we got to show us clearly that Lottie felt that child represented something significant about their circumstances and their future and their relationship to the wilderness that you're going to change everything. idea. Like, this is a reworking in real time of your own dogma. And that's also... It happens all the time, right? Yes. That's also very interesting to track with a messianic figure to your earlier point. Again, I don't think that it's, I don't think that it's her being, doing it cynically.

No, I think she's working her way through her own faith as well. She's like, no, this is what was supposed to happen. Shawna was supposed to live. That's what we got, you know, and it's like, um, Yeah, it's very, it's very familiar sort of a swerve. Interesting shot, the camera on the floor shows most of the cabin, except for Shana and not as far as I could tell. And then, like, I don't know, some of the rando girls who will become main characters next season. But it includes Tall Hobby, Travis, and Ben is in the circle holding hands with Lottie,

freshly shorn, shaven Ben, as they sort of prepare to go. go look for Crystal slash Kristen. What did you make of Ben? I mean, we're going to talk a little bit more about Ben and his steps to this spot, but like, it's a big moment. Ben is holding hands with Lottie. I was struck by how even in a shot like that where your eye is drawn to so many different people, your eye is pulled like a magnet to his mouth and his eyes.

There's like a darting quality to his eyes and a almost like trepidatious, halting pattern to his lips. He doesn't know the words. He's like almost like miming, right? And like looking around him for clues about what he's, it's like when you're singing along. I was going to say it's like when you go to mass. And you're like, oh, we're standing now. Oh, we sit now. What do we do? Yeah. And you don't know. Exactly. And so, you know, given the rest of Ben's arc, which we'll chat about in a few minutes, I think it's interesting to consider why he would be doing that or what level of awareness he even has that he is doing that because he's operating in a little bit of like a trans. A trance. across planes. Misty gives, I just want to shout out the trio performances here, right?

There's the like the impassioned monologue if we need to find her. There's the, her screaming out for Crystal louder than anyone else was just like

Samantha Hanorati, just 10 out of 10. And then there's her like full blownsies steel magnolia's pitch to Mari and Akila who are giving each other sad eye about how

she can't bear to like look at her if she finds her. What if she's all, you mentioned the a little song Frozen? in her throat.

So funny. Mari's, yeah, sure. You go back and we'll keep looking for your friend. Reply absolutely killed me. There's, Mari is a monster, but there's something about

Mari's complete refusal to give a shit about what other people think of her than I lost. Mari, I'm not going to, this is the one episode I'm not going to tell you to get in the pit. Okay, you get a stay of execution.

You get a week off because you're right about everything you said. So how can I argue? We already talked about, you know, whether or not we think crystal is gone or not. Mal is putting her chips on crystals in the hatch. I mean, again, it just would feel like she looked to me like she was looking in the exact right spot. Like, exactly right.

Because, I mean, I think it would be fairly easy to lose someone in the snow, but, like, that looked like the right spot. Or she could have gotten, like, blown, you know, away by the very intense storm and could still just be there as a corpse a few feet away. I think she has to be dead. Like, she's so dead. Okay. Dead in a hatch. I think she's dead, but I think the hatch people took her. I don't think that we're going to find her in a cage retrieving fish biscuits from the...

Do you think the hatch people also eat people? Oh. Or are they just, like, chilling with her body underground? Because I don't know why they would drag her underground, if not to eat her. If not to consume her? Yeah, let's go with. They're also cannibals. I think that would probably track.

Cannibal clans. You know what I mean? With some of the clan activity and just the general antler queen vibes also. Great. Okay. Yeah. Let's talk about Ben and Paul and Misty, shall we? 9-2-86, okay?

This feels like a goodbye to the Paul sequences. Never say never, but this feels like a goodbye, right? We're in the cabin set. It's much more obvious this week that, you know, they did less set dressing on it. It's much more obvious that we're in the proper cabin. with Paul hanging up the phone saying he isn't ready about Ben, the glitching in and out of reality that you mentioned. And then this line, where do you think you are, Ben? You have to know you can't stay here forever.

This wasn't meant to be your hiding place. What matters now is that you aren't welcome here anymore. It's just time. And crying, he says, I love you. We all love you. Yeah. We are you thinking, yeah, the we is very curious. but were you thinking about Lila and Rocket at all?

I don't know if we want to spoil Guardians of the Galaxy, but like, do you know what I mean? As well about talking about whether it was appropriate, like what was fair game for talking about on the Guardians front, given that some people might not have seen it. Yes, I was thinking about Guardians. Okay. This was fascinating.

We've spent a lot of time talking about the deliberate use of it this season. We got it again with Lottie in this episode. So the we here, like who? is the we in question, is the we everybody else who has been summoned and called by this force? Like last week, when Ladi said to Shauna in Shauna's dreamscape, which, you know, we discussed might mean that Shauna was near death, near death, that you'll understand soon enough. And we wondered, okay, does this mean that Shauna is having one of those experiences that we've discussed before, like a summoning by the hunter, that Jackie, that was part of the Jackie

death dream. This feels just very clearly like Ben's version of this. He's on the brink of death, as we will see later in this very episode, right? That's not even up for debate. He's contemplating suicide. Also, like, it's always really uncomfortable and difficult in a Yellow Jackets discussion to, like, go into theory corner inside of these really, um, really. Real world.

Real world. Heroing ideas. Yeah. Exactly. Yeah. But I think it is difficult as a viewer of the show to not say that, like, to not think about the fact that the cliff that Ben is standing on is the one where Crystal died, is the one where no eyes led tie. And like this idea again with the Hunter and Jackie of like the summons, the call, the pull. I think zeroing in on that idea we, and you mentioned the Hunter a couple times, like what the Hunter says to Jackie is so glad.

you're joining us, we've been waiting for you. Right. Yeah. So what is that? What is that we? And but this is, whether we don't have to talk specifically about guardians, but this is a fairly well-roamed trope of like someone being on the verge of death, seeing a loved one or blah, blah, and that loved one being like, it's not your time. Not yet, right? And that's what it feels like here. You can't stay here. You're not supposed to be here. Not you. You know? Yes, Jackie come in. Not you. You know, sort of thing. Yeah. Like this was never meant to be your hiding place is a really interesting way to position it.

Where do you think you are? Right. Like the idea that Ben has been seeking. We've been talking about Ben living in this like alternate version, like the choice he didn't make, right? And how devastating it was to think about the life that he could have had, the love that he could have had with Paul. And to reposition it in this episode in this way of like Ben's refuge, that space that he's been carving out in his own. mind and heart is is the path to death. It's exiting reality. It's exiting life entirely. Giving up, right? Like, well, and how that's tied to, and I hate to say it, but like how that's

tied to his decision not to eat Jackie, right? That is in a way, and I, again, I hate to say it, giving up on life, right? Because a reason to do that is to keep yourself alive. And he's like, I would rather die than do that. And I can't really fault his morals on that. that front. But, you know, it is a giving up of some kind. And ever since he made the decision, that's when he's sort of been bleeding into the Paul world. The cliff's edge, you know, Ben shaves love to see his handsome face. He says, I'm not very handsome with a beard too. I love a beard, as you know. Yes. You don't love a scraggly wilderness beard. I love a straggly wilderness beard. I love a beard. I don't love like a depression beard, which is what Ben was rocking there.

He says, I'm not going to keep losing everything. And he asks Misty, push him off. This is a key moment for Ben, of course, because he has, like, there's this interaction with Misty where at first she, like, threatens him and manipulates him, drops that incredible high calorie butt meat line. And then she says, I'll tell the whole world you're gay. And he says, do it. Tell them. I want them to know as me. No, but he's like, he's, this is the acceptance of his gay identity.

Tell the world. That choice I made with Paul, I am making a different choice now. Tell the world, I'm ready. I want to, I want everyone to see me for who I am. It felt a little, this is my critique, if that moment felt a little like ham-fisted in a way to me. But this is such an important bed moment. It's also such important misty moment because that is the place where Crystal fell. because you could really easily make the argument that she is directly responsible.

She is. I mean, she didn't try to kill her, but like she is responsible, right? She died. Friend to. And then she took a few steps backwards and died. And died. So when he's like pushed me off, this is, this comes down to Misty's central question of this episode, which is am I a killer or not?

Well, and the why does everyone think I am, right? like Ben, as somebody who she's had, you know, often an unhealthy and obsessive love and lust for that has led her to do many irresponsible and reckless things to him to the group. It is, from her perspective, devastating to realize that he turns around and the relief on his face when he sees it's her because he thinks that she is a person who would do that, right? Oh, it's Misty. Misty will do this. And not because, like, Misty will be a person who wants to help me, like, be free of my pain. But because Misty's a person who is capable of that. No, yeah.

And I think, I just, I think in, when Misty is, when Misty is cataloging the moments in her life and deciding, am I a killer, am I not, right? This is a moment she can look to to say, no, I'm not a killer. I tried, I let, I put everything on the table. in order to save this man's life. And in that speech, as she's saying that to him, she's saying she also put everything on the table to try to save the baby. You know what I mean? So Misty is this sort of like angel of death.

You kill people and treat it like a joke or conversation that she has with Shawna, etc. But then Misty is someone who is fighting hard to protect people as well. And that's the beauty of Misty. She's both, you know? Absolutely. And it's like, you know, we'll talk later about the, shot us response to hearing Misty humming and the way that she cast that blame in Misty's direction, which would have been devastating no matter what, but on the heels of seeing Misty's breakdown here,

really it was very, very intense and hard to watch. I mean, where do you think Ben, what's next for Ben after this, after the decision to step back and to return with Misty to the cabin? I feel like her breaking down, like, because the girls have made such a good argument for their capability, for, you know, their maturity in a certain way, all this sort of stuff like that. But for her to, like, really remind him that she is a vulnerable child and he is an adult and that she needs help, I feel like he's going to lean into leadership. I don't know how long that lasts. until he's the first one selected. Who selects the Queen of Hearts and is immediately virtually killed and

we'll see. That would be sad. That was also, that was an interesting shot, by the way. You just saying that reminded me when he is making his way out and he falls over. And when he's like working to get back up, the camera kind of pans to the left of him. And it looked like it was like moving us toward whatever was behind him. I couldn't see anything there other than just trees. But I was like, what are they drawing our attention to with that sweeping camera?

Is something there? Is someone watching? Is someone lurking? So, is that you? Okay. This brings us to exactly where I want to be, which is Misty in present day. Okay? Yeah.

If you're not comfortable with nudity, we've got clean swimsuits. They're also part of the color scheme, the commitment to the color scheme. Do you think everybody's everybody's underwear? Also, uh, team colors? 100%. 100%. Okay.

Listen, Samantha Hanrani as young Misty. Great job in this episode. Christina Ricci. So I'll just be inside that water coffin in the dark all by myself. So funny. Amazing. Amazing.

I feel like Misty would have seen, uh, stranger things though, you know, would have been like, like, this is my chance to be 11. I'm in. Oh, God, that enters a whole, like, because of all the nostalgia casting in that show, that just, like, introduces a bunch of, like, conflicting questions. Okay, so, first of all, I love that Lisa has no shits to give for Misty. Yeah.

And this is without even knowing that Missy was lying about the bladder size, by the way. You know, it's established canon, Joe, that Missy could sit there at the most. tell all day. Now using the feeble bladder. Could she? Or was that? Which was a lie. It's a great question. It's a great question. I feel like only Walter will eventually know her true soulmate. Okay. Before we get to go hang out with Walter in the water coffin in the deprivation tank, which by the way, I would never do ever in my life would I do a sensory deprivation therapy experience. Absolutely not. Alone with my own thoughts. alone with my own thoughts and no distractions.

I would not, even if Lisa was there to hopefully say, because there is no luck. Truly, no one cares that you're in the tanker here at all. Lisa, amazing. But before she gets in there, right, she runs off and she encounters Shauna. You'll get to like Shauna's whole thing later, but let's just say that Shauna has lost her goat, Bruce. Misty does her best.

Crystal for Bruce, right? Yeah. Yeah. Kristen, Crystal. Um, and she brings up Adam, right? And she's just being very flip about it. And Shauna says, I don't want to be joshed about it. And then Misty stands up to Shauna in a really interesting way.

And this is even before Caligula gives her a pep talk, right? She says, you've never even been grateful, you know? And then Shauna says, a thing about your hobby seems to be figuring out how to, how to be the perfect serial killer. And thinking about Walter, she's like, yeah. Why someone keep saying that about me? Like, it was, this was a good exchange. I like when the characters call each other out on their bullshit.

That like, but then it gets really real, you know, when Missy says, well, you're not that innocent either. And the real, like, oh, Sean is like, oh, I know. I know that, Missy. Do you think I don't know that? Like, oh. It's almost like, Shawna should have been part of the main story along this entire season. It's almost like when you let Shawna hang out with the other women, it's cool. No offense, Jeff, we like you.

We'll see you at the end of the episode. Okay. It's musical moment time. I wrote in my notes of Joanna Robinson Iso ball. Take it away. Okay. So the components are this, right? We get an original song.

This is an original composed for Yellow Jackets. I've got to say, this is not a 10-10 song for me. That's okay. because we make up for it and some razzle-dousel elsewhere. Because we start with a montage of Elijah Wood, like all of Elijah Wood's scenes. Like, we're at the end of a rom-com and someone has suddenly realized how they feel about someone.

After first seeing some, like, water-based terrors, you know, misty's like water-based fears. Very odd. And then as we mentioned earlier this season, it's true. I mean, let them sail off together. I don't know. She might not want to if she's, like, freaking out about jellyfish and, like, the creatures of the deep.

Maybe he can teach her to bob along on the bottom of the beautiful brownie seat. Okay, so John Cameron Mitchell, absolute musical theater legend. Hedwig and The Angry Inch. Have you ever seen it? Or numerous other properties. Very recently seen doing musical numbers in Sandman with very similar stripy hair. by the way, this is his sandman hair. As Caligula and Caligula dances and poor Elisha Wood in top hat and tails also dances.

That's great. Incredible. Misty is doing full Laura Palmer in the Red Room, Twin Peaks illusion. You've been waiting for this because this has been in the intro. In the opening credits. I put a little visual guide for you here just so that you know what it looks like. And if folks haven't seen Twin Peaks, you could just Google Laura in the Red Room and you will see what they're going for here. The one lyric from the song, again, it's not a 10-0-10 song from movie, the one lyric of the song is in dance.

It's like be in the moonlight, blah, blah, blah, and then dance on the graves of any motherfucker who gets in your way. Great stuff. Yeah. The animations of the wings. Yeah. The wings, but then like there's a surround. fringe that's just like maybe the ax. Oh.

The number's great, but I think even better is this post-musical number scene, which we already heard a part of the top of this podcast episode, John Cameron Mitchell as Caligula, the voice he adopts when he's like, talk to me, Misty, what's going on? Yeah, incredible. This is great. Just a wonderful. Take it from a bird name for an emperor who was accused. of heinous acts.

It was also a killer, Miss, you're a closer. You're a closer. Sorry, that's my... Ray Peptop. To give, for your subconscious to give you, you know? You're not a murderer.

You're a closer. Oh, boy. Coffee's going for closers. She gets on a Lips phone. Did you ever have a novelty phone? A bird phone? A Lips phone. Yeah, but probably predictably, I had like

you know, the Sports Illustrated. Football phone. Yeah. Football phone. You had a football phone. Love it. I never had a novelty phone. I always wanted the see-through one, the one where you can, like, see all the circuits

and wires inside of it. She gets on the lips line. Walter punches a little love message to her via tone dial. This is how he used to text, sort of. Not really. Like, kind of. But again, it's a very analog. This is very Walter, right, cassette tapes, landlines, tone, you know, touch tone, et cetera.

And, you know, the little message turns into heart around her. And she's like, oh, I love him. And then Misty goes to the kitchen. Hair is still wet. Oh, my God. But the way she opened the tank before she goes to the kitchen, she's like orgasmic. Yeah. She emerges.

Yeah. Rom-com moment. Absolute blithering mess on the phone. This was tough. This was tough, Joe. But I actually think Walter would like it. I don't know. Like I got to say, I think Walter's going to be into it. She, first of all, shout out Walter's voicemail, which is, you didn't get me. Nice try. Great. Great stuff. She confesses to him without using any incriminating words. Jeff will use a similar tactic later in the episode. Yeah. And then the part, she said, your grandmother sounds really cool.

His grandmother, who lets remind everyone, killed his grandfather, right? Yep. Uh-huh. Yep. And then you hang up. No, you hang up. Like, I, I, Christina Ricci. Oh, my God.

I love this. Laughter in that stretch. Okay, all right. Bye. This is like absolutely 11 out of 10. This was so funny. but like, yeah, the, oh my God, basically like playing both sides of the call

in like the early days of a relationship where you just don't want to stop talking to someone or be away from someone. This was just just unbelievable to watch. When is Walter coming back? Obviously, we got our Walter fix in a fashion here, but when will he actually return? Are you worried again now?

This is what I wanted to ask you, because this is a summons from Misty, to Walter and our guy was ready to shack up at the B&B. So if he gets this, he is heading to the cult and what will happen next? Nothing good. They're about to have to start sacrificing people again. I'm concerned.

I just genuinely started crying thinking about that killing Walter. I just like really don't want that to happen. I don't know. I have to imagine, I mean, like, what I love about the show is that they did not, like, fucking Cobb Vant me, right? Like, we only had one episode without Walter. Now he's back in musical form. Then hopefully we'll see him at the farm or something else next week.

But I feel he's in for the rest of the season or unless he dies next week. I don't know. Oh, man. All right. Let's go to Ty and Van. Speaking of lovers, right? I mean, I really, as you mentioned, completely scorching hookup. big fan of it.

But we start back in 1996. In relation to what we were saying earlier about the van of the past and the van now contrasting their attitudes, this is the key sequence in the past where we get Van's point of view about her near-death experiences that she had. Both the character and the actress

are like, thank you, I skipped death. I get to still work on this show. But she starts by saying, and this is classic, lost language. It's time. we woke up. And then she says, I kept surviving all this shit

that should have killed me and I figured it meant something. Maybe it meant I had some kind of purpose and all this, but I'm not fucking seeing it, Ty. And then Ty says, I need, you know, she says, why? You know, you help me all these way.

And then she says, I need you, Van. Van says, I need you too, but I need to know why the fuck I'm still here. And like, I think it's, watching the scene and I almost for a second was like, was this ported from earlier in the season? almost like this almost would have helped early in the season to help have a conversation like this between Van and Ty for Van to explain why it was so important for her to be in the Lottie contingent.

And for Van to explain that and for her to say she would like Ty to be with her. I'm not saying it was because I think they are wearing what they're wearing. It's like very clearly not. And I think it does make it significant cure that that it happens right after this great loss. This is a very human thing to do when someone, and especially like something as vulnerable as a small child dies, right? You start questioning the fairness of the justice of the universe or any higher power that you believe in. And then you begin to question, why did this thing not survive and I did? Like that's, it makes sense to me that this would be top of mind for VAM.

But do you know what I mean about that sort of connective tissue we felt like we were missing with the whole Van Tye Lottie dynamic? Yeah, definitely. Though I think in terms of the chat we were having earlier about the moving in and out of phases of faith, like for us to understand. Now, I don't think it's going to be again like a clean, okay, Van has lost some of her faith. And that will just remain true and be the case until 25 years in the future. I don't think that's going to be the way it goes for VAM.

But this is a moment, right? This is like a very John Locke team faith, crisis of faith. One of the people who's been on the front line of the man of faith camp, having to confront not fully understanding what the result of that faith is, what that faith is for. And I think it was like, it was interesting in the context of a couple other scenes in the episode. Obviously, it's just very painful when we're with Van in the future and learn about Van's cancer. But also in the back in the past in the wilderness with Ben and that near suicide attempt, like, Vance not the only character confronting this question of like, what is this all for?

And the other thing I was thinking of, in addition to Lost, was Thrones, I think in part just because, because literally of the use of the word purpose, but it really, but also just the broader idea and the, that like aspect of, how do you hold on to your faith once it's shaken and how the bearing for that, even in a moment of like supreme doubt comes in the,

can come in the form of other people. It made me think of John and Barrick beyond the wall. You know, that's, that's all anyone can tell me, I don't know. So what's the point of serving a God if none of us know what he wants? That's what John said. And Barrick says,

I think about that all the time. I don't think it's our purpose to understand, except one thing. We're soldiers. We have to know what we're fighting for. I'm not fighting so some man or woman I barely know can sit on a throne made of swords. What are you fighting for?

Life. Death is the enemy, the first enemy, and the last. But we all die. The enemy always wins, and we still need to fight him. It made me think of that, like, pretty powerfully,

obviously, like the worst soldiers context is very different. But that question of like, what is your purpose and how do you convince yourself that the things you're doing have meaning when something so terrible has happened? Or was I saved for something? Like, yeah, why do the universe intervene? Do I have a role to play? And save me? Yeah. And if you've allowed yourself to believe that you do, and then that's taken away from you, well, that is like utterly destabilizing, right? To help underline for folk, and again, It's really fine if you haven't seen the TV show Lost. You, of course, can enjoy and understand everything that Yellow Jackets has to offer you.

But to Mallory's point about, there are two characters on Lost, arguably like two of our main characters, Jack and John, John being someone who believes in spirituality of the island, Jack being a doctor, physician, and sort of a man of science, man of faith. And one of the best and my favorite exchanges between them as they're sort of arguing about this, right, is John, the man of faith asked Jack, why do you find it so hard to believe? Jack says, why do you find it's so easy? And John says, it's never been easy. It's never been easy. One of my favorite line deliveries all time, right? And so, like, that idea that, like, even those who believe are constantly grappling and questioning what they've decided to believe in. You know, and you have to keep reaffirming your faith in something.

Which brings us to present day. Shout out to Ty very quickly. You know, like, Shauna does her thing and Missy does her thing. And Van gives up and goes to get tequila. But I love that Ty just, like, wrote fuck on the wall and then, like, threw the paintbrush away. Like, that's about all she did for her art therapy. This killed me. Just the little yellow fuck on the side of the barn was just hysterical.

But we get very clear parallels between the 1996 scene between Lonnie and Ty at the stump when they're looking for Crystal slash Kristen and this contemporary one. And in both cases, in the past, Ty is saying, my dark self is asleep and I don't want to wake her, not even to like save, potentially save Kristen or Crystal. It's not worth it to me to wake her up. And Lottie says, she's not gone and that's a good thing, right? it again and it goes back to that idea. We've been revisiting of like embracing your whole self. And then even more intriguingly, I think, in the modern storyline, Ty says, well, dark tie is back.

I'm sleepwalking again, right? She's very quickly in a confessional space with Lottie. It's astonishing how quickly all of them fall into this confessional space with Lottie, right? Like, very fast. Too fast. It feels a little fast for like plot reasons. but like if I think about their past relationship with her,

depending on like if at one point she was this person for them, Shawna was the one for that reason that I had the toughest time with, though also she's been going through some stuff obviously. She's been going through some stuff. Yeah. Saracusa. But Lottie, Lottie's like that other you, dark tie, whatever, the sleepwalking tie has wisdom, right?

And then Ty's like she wants to hurt my family. Lottie's like, maybe she doesn't. Maybe she just doesn't want to be suppressed. She's still a part of you. She will always be a part of you. A couple things going on here, right? Lottie is also kind of talking to herself the way that she will in therapy, right? This like, don't suppress this other part of you.

Bring it out. And we're not sure. That's a great idea actually with Lottie, et cetera. That's the complexity, right? Like there's a danger here. But also, like you said, it's that embrace of the whole self that represents a level of acceptance that is a good thing and a sign of progress. But it is a good, like, it was a good little, like, clue before the reveal that the therapist was

because this is exactly the messaging of the therapist was like, is it bad? Is it harmful? Is the thing that cut the head off the dog bad? Or is it wise and just should be let roam to roam free? You know, what do you think? Still Miss Biscuit, tough one. Van and Ty, you mentioned the ring dropping on the rock. Van and Ty made out.

incredible 10 of 10 no notes. I would have liked the scene to continue for longer. Absolutely. 100%. Give us the full hookup. This was... They were going for it. It was fantastic.

Then we get the diagnosis, as we mentioned, the cancer. And this was a fairly popular theory. Again, it feels weird to talk about, like, fan theories when it comes to, like, a real-world serious issue. But, like, the unpaid bills... the meds, the disinterest in trying to start a long-term relationship with anyone, like a bunch of people online were like, do we think that perhaps when she says her mom had cancer, she means I have cancer sort of thing.

It was horrible. I mean, no shit. Fuck cancer. But like, have these women not suffered enough? You know what I mean? Like it's just like van to sit there with the fucking scar, little scars on her face of what she's survived in the wilderness. And for her, too, for us to think about this and think about her in the passing, I've survived so many things, so many things that should have killed me.

She caught on fire in the plane. She survived this other attack. And so survive for this to happen. We talked about this. Once again, spoilers for a Marvel thing that you may or may not have seen. But it reminded me a little bit of our conversation about Jane's cancer in Love and Thunder. and like the conversation that we had about how in supernatural stories or stories like this

that may have a supernatural element, there's actually like, not saying that I am glad that Van has cancer, obviously. This is like horrific and incredibly upsetting. I think it is important in supernatural stories, though, to have these moments where real things that are, that happen in our lives, happen to the characters who are experiencing,

this supernatural existence. And yeah, like you said, just the utter tragedy of Van having survived horror after horror to then have to go through this and say this thing. And one of, I mean, it would have been absolutely like bulldozing no matter what. But the conversation that Van and Ty had about why Van didn't tell Ty, this was like the part that absolutely like dissolved me, you know, why the fuck not?

Because we don't know each other. You don't know each other. It's horrible. The idea that the person in the world who probably knows you best and the depths of you most fully more than anyone else alive. Yeah. That could be a person that you said that to you that you could have spent that many years apart where they became a stranger to you is just so, so, so sad.

Like that crushed me. And it is heartbreak. I mean, like, I think we all have those people in our lives. So we're tremendously closest at one point. And then if we talk to them now, it's like the, to your point about real world illnesses or problems invading a supernatural story, I will be drummed off the internet. I think if I don't mention that there is a very famous episode of Buffet Vampire Slayer where this is like, like perhaps the most famous episode of Buffet Vampire Slayer where someone dies and it is not for supernatural reasons. And it's just like, and the characters are at a complete loss of how to grapple with this because they're like, what's the spell? What's the, like, what do we do? What's the, what do we do?

And it's like, there is. There's no magic. Right? It's just, it is. Lottie and Nat is where we'll go before we end with Shawna. I don't know what else I need to say about this fake therapy session that we were not surprised was fake except for, I mean, does a hunt that has no violence feed anyone is. a very incredible chilling line. This is the part where, like I alluded to earlier,

the kind of like the evolution of Lottie's perspective regarding that idea of the trade and the haggle because this is Lottie talking to herself, which means that this part of Lottie believes that there are exchanges that you need to be prepared to make. Is there anything of value in this life that doesn't come with risk? Exactly. Or loss or consequence.

Is there anything of value in this life that doesn't come with risk or loss or consequences? is like, that's one thing to say, but then to say, does a hunt that has no violence feed anyone? It's intense. Again, that's that primal. And like, you know, this Lottie is, the other side of Lottie is grappling with that primal idea as well as what it wants us being together deep and primal. I haven't felt that in years and it feels wonderful and yet I also feel fucking terrified. other alt, Lottie is saying in return there, it could be that this reunion strikes a primal cord with you because in the past when you were with these other women, you were free, you were your truest most authentic self.

Well, in these sessions, Lottie has been talking about the idea of like, this is happening again. It's starting. It's resuming. I can't go back to that place. But those words, those ideas, truest most authentic self, that is like very much beat for beat, this opening speech that we heard from Lottie at the wellness center. So this is what that Lottie thinks too. And so there's not actually that big of a chasm between the versions of Lottie that are working to reconcile with each other. Nat, who has already done all of her therapy so she doesn't have a little task. She just like gathers everyone up at the end of the episode here to process everything. I love, I kind of love when these women who had their childhood taken from them get to act like adolescents. So when they're sneaking little drinks of tequila while Nat's talking, there's something very tender about that.

Nat, of course, is declining the alcohol, right? She's not drinking. But, and I have to say, Melanie Linsky's delivery of, I lost my goat, but I found him again. Just, like, killed me. I thought it was so funny. And then, big week for Florence and the Machine, speaking grind in the galaxy, Volume 3, because we get free by Florence and the Machine. And then another Florence The Machine song plays over the closing credits.

But Lottie tries, okay, so credit to Lottie. She is freaked out by this other side of herself that says, and I repeat, does a hunt that has no violence feed anyone? And it's like, maybe you should go home. Maybe you should go home. Maybe you should go home. I'm going to retire for the night and you could go to your bunks, but why don't you just leave so that I don't eat you?

I blame force on the machine very quickly is persuaded to have a dance party instead, very quickly breaks out what I have to assume is Mead, right? This is a honey-based organization. She breaks out the bottles of homemade booze. It's got to be Mead. 100%. And Mead will fuck you up so fast. So these...

Well, they're howling at the moon mere moments later. So an advanced presence, a wolf, a wolf howl. So, yeah, they're hammer. He loved to howl, honestly. We could have a great time. Six Underground by Sneaker Pimps is, it's not even the laugh. We have more needle drops to come,

but that's another one that happens. What do you make of Misty talking about Walter here? How did this land for you? I mean, this entire stretch was amazing. For much the same reason you already mentioned, like these women who didn't have their childhood getting to like have this kind of teen pal moment, but just in general,

it's like you're catching up, you're bonding, you're talking, you're sharing, who have you hooked up with, who do you like? Like I loved, loved, loved, loved this stretch. The whole, like, everybody's face, possibly my favorite Yellow Jackets moment ever was in the part of the conversation where they were talking about how Nat slept with Hot Kevin. And Lott's like, goth? And Nat says he wasn't goth when we fucked.

And Nat says, ask Misty, she watched. Misty says that's not true. I didn't watch those parts, those parts. The faces, in her response, man, most of all. But everyone, this was just priceless. And yeah, I mean, on the Misty Walterfront, I'll be honest, there was a part of me that was like, this is actually upsetting. Because on the one hand, I'm rooting for those kids. I ship it.

But Misty has swung so fully from two rooms, get out of here. into, well, you know when you know. And it's like, oh boy. Setting up for some heartbreak here, possibly. Protect Walter, please. Yeah, I'm troubled. Something I first say about the Misty Collegula conversation earlier that I wanted to mention. He's the language that he uses is about, like, getting the ball over the gold line, I think is what he says.

And I just thought that was. Well, you know I love sports, but also. Team manager, Misty. Put the manager. But she's not on the team. She is. But she is. But she's not, right?

And so, like, for him to use, like, you are a legitimate part of the team kind of language, I thought was very significant, right? Yeah. And is this exactly the same as Lottie or Ty having an alt-self? No, but it's of a piece. This is Misty talking to herself, right? This is Misty telling herself something. Does that mean that Shauna's alt-self is the goat? I don't know.

Sweet Bruce. Protect Bruce and let Bruce take the Mensa test, actually. I thought that these were some rude comments. That's classic Shauna. Shana thinks everyone's very dumb. She always calling people dumb. As I already mentioned, like, just to speed through the rest of this part where Lottie says, like, you know, things that they remember, things that are stuffed down deep, blah, blah. And then Lottie says, an ecstatic.

the human body can't hold memory that well. The ecstatic state being like these minad moments that we've seen from them when they're like howl, speaking of howling, howling and running around and like hunting people, you know, that is an exor or Greeks at a feast in the woods. Like that is an ecstatic state. So the idea that that would be, you know, like Ty wakes up and care that she didn't, you know, like the way in which that would be something that they didn't hold on to is, is very interesting to me.

And then Ty wants Van to go to a specialist, TBD, on that conversation. Ty and Van, this introduction of the cancer storyline, we've been talking about all these vulnerabilities as you know, Nat is incredibly vulnerable because of all the Travis stuff, right? Shauna incredibly vulnerable because of like Adam and Callie and all of that stuff that happened, right? So Ty and Van have their own thing, but this very specific thing of Van might be. have a reason to believe in a higher power again if it means she can get well. But I think even more likely is that Ty would be willing to kill something if it meant she could haggle for Vand's life, you know? Yeah. And, you know, you mentioned you called back to the altar already, but like the times in this episode where in the past we hear Ty say, like, and I am not, ever since I started

joining your prayer circle, like, I'm not doing this anymore. There's a reminder of when Ty thought something worked right there in the precipice of thinking about the present timeline. Yeah, I definitely agree. Lightning crashes by life. Holy shit. This, dude, this took me back. This took me back. Do you know I've seen live in concert because they opened for the Count of Crows and it was terrible. I got to say, it was really bad. But this is a catchy little hit, Lightning crashes. Very on the nose lyrics, right? mother cries, like all that's our stuff. But that takes us to shot man. We've already talked about Bruce at length. There's not a ton I want to say here.

I just need to shout out Acolyte Todd, a new Acolyte that we met this week because he has a literal cravat with his purple fit. And I just thought that that like on barn duty with a cravat on. Okay, Todd, I see you. I see you. Love it. Love Bruce. I don't want to tread on tender territory, but I just want to say that like being anxious about a goat eating some rope reminded me at this time that might be. tiny, tiny kitten when I very first got her, ate a bunch of yarn. And I don't want to talk about how I had to deal with that, but it is like one of the most harrowing experiences of my early pet ownership days. Very tough. So her freaking out about the goat eating the rope I really identified with. I really loved, I loved this stretch with Shawna and Bruce. Like we've talked about, we've talked about a lot of it. We talked about the Shawna and Ladi and Shana opening up about

Cali Delati already, but just that like a little moment and obviously you know, the performance from Melanie Linsky is so strong, but that little, like the weep of gratitude and the little, oh, Bruce, you know, in the nuzzle, when she realizes that she's not going to have

to kill him. And like, we think of Shana butchering rabbits that she finds in her garden and then like this, this tenderness and this absolute relief that she doesn't have to be a killer. Just really, I don't know, that like that broke me. I thought that was really, really sad. And obviously, the exchange between Shana and Lottie

about, about Callie, and, you know, I'm safe to think of her as mine and to just be her mom. To be her mom. But I think something is broken, Lottie. I just can't do it. That was just like, man, just unbearable sad. And the way that Melanie Ellensky, like, delivered that, you know, the way her voice broke on to think of her as mine to be her mom is just. Absolutely gutting. Um, equally bad times for Shawna in the past, of course, she is fresh off of what happened last week. She is, I mean, she has been cuddling before she buries the baby.

Like, she was cuddling this body to her. She has, she's having the flashes of everyone feasting on her baby. She burns the bloody blanket. As you mentioned, she goes, she goes to the meat locker calling for Jackie, tearfully asking her help. solving lightning crashes is playing over this as well. Also, though, who put the blanket that was a cause of such under her? Before, under her? That's...

Yikes. Mari. I have my guess. Get her in the pit, Mari. I think it was you. Wasn't Mari on boiling blanket duty? I think she was. Boy.

It's Mari. What is Misty says she's singing the little song caught in the throat of... I feel like because of both just the way it sounds, but also the way that we're cutting between the past. It's lightning crashes, right? The present, it's lightning crashes. Yeah, the timing would make sense, right?

This is like a, like, 94 song. They would know it. And I think just Shauna's response to that, the rage, the anger, like this idea of like a song about life and death and birthing would have incited the response. So I think, you know, we'll stay in the past and talk about what happens next, which was, whew, harrowing. But it's interesting to think about the,

the differences in the reactions. Like if Misty humming that song sparked, Shauna shouting, you killed my fucking baby, you all fucking ate my baby, pummeling and bludgeoning Lottie into an inch of her life. And then that song comes on

20 years later and they have a fucking dance party. Right on the heels of a conversation about what memories they have or have not completely preserved and maintained. Like, how is that their response to the same musical cue? What is that telling us about what, no, I am, just to be clear, like, I'm not saying that they have, like, forgotten about the baby.

I do not think that. Obviously, that is a trauma that is informing a lot of what is unfolding. But how are they reliving past experiences? What are their associations? What have they tucked away and repressed and compartmentalized so that it's not evoking some great pain and is allowing them? And there's something beautiful about that, right? And, like, that's been a theme of the season. You can find possibility and, purpose and promise and something that used to be that cause of trauma for you. I think that would be very, very of a piece with a lot of things we've seen this season. If this, okay, the cut back and forth between Shauna pummeling Lonnie and the girls watching and the dance party and how we cut from the young version to the older version of these various girls and all of a sudden Nat, Nat's back in the 96 storyline.

But like, looking horrified. Very tough. I did think it was going to be that Nat defense. Misty, you know what I mean, in a key moment. But if this were a series finale, I'd be like, what a lovely story about healing, about trauma, you know, like, cut back to the trauma. But like, this is just a calm before some other ecstatic moment for them, a frenzy of blood that I'm sure is to come in the modern storyline.

It's like you end, you have that moment of like, look at these people together, experiencing joy. And then just the, just like, a. the curtain of doom falling down on you. Jeff on the phone. Bloody face clarity, Joe. The bloody face flash from the Lottie Travis episode two stretch. Here it is.

Yeah, I also think it's really interesting that Lottie tells Travis to take tall Javi into the other room. And it just sort of like, despite his tallness, it underlines that the way that they think of Javi as a kid. And again, like, you know, just as they. they were ready to mother this baby. This is like, this is an innocent, a more innocent figure in their midst, you know, which I think is really interesting.

Also, this is a very, I mean, like, in the, in the, in the origin story myth making of a modern Messiah, what could be, you know, more apt than I take the pain for the rest of you. I will suffer. I will suffer for the group. Yeah. Wilderness Jesus is what Lottie is giving here. Yeah. Do you think this is her near-death moment?

Because Travis alluded to a near-death moment for Lottie, is it this or is it – we thought it might have been that mall sequence earlier, and we'll talk about that in a second. But, like, this feels much closer to even to death than the freezing in the snow did. And so I'll be curious to what we see next week. What is Lottie seeing? Are we going back to the mall? I would be happy to go back to the mall. Maybe. Yeah, I thought that the way that Shauna, who had,

Shauna very gifted, canonically established, gifted soccer player, kicked Lottie in the spine unrelentingly for multiple minutes and then punched her in the face to the bloody pulp and then had to confront the fact that she almost killed her. And then when Lottie like gurgled, Shauna just rolled her eyes and walked away. It's like, you're not dead. This is fine. I think that both of those.

Shana did like a classic Donkey Kong maneuver. which is the over the head double fist pummel down on the body. Yeah. I mean, talk about tapping into something like dark and primal side of you, like the capacity to do that to another person, even somebody who stood in front of you and said, you know, let it out. We need you. Shauna then goes and like dunks her bloody hands out in the snow.

Anytime we're seeing the connection of blood in the wilderness, like we have to think about what that means. But the more striking thing I think with, obviously, you noted the presentation of Ladi in that like I will be the Messiah. Well, what do we see from Shauna again? Just like at the beginning of the episode here, Shauna is alone. Shana is separate from the rest of the group.

Nobody follows Shana outside into the snow. She is there kneeling totally, totally alone. But she's not alone in the present day because she has a loving husband who called her to let her know. This was an historic scene. That the cops have found, I mean, it wouldn't be an episode without Jeff, right?

Well, I have some difficult news. It's so incredible. Very good shit. Do you recall that missing man from your recent auto collision? Will I have some difficult news? The cops have found Adam. This is terrible. It's very bad.

And we go out on other Florence Machine Song, Dream Girl, Evil, where she says the word evil a bunch of times. So fun stuff sure to come. I do want to, we're running a little long, but I do want to read this email we got from Mike because I thought it was absolutely fascinating. It's an expansion on something we talked about last week, but it introduces a motif that I hadn't been paying enough attention to, which is this other idea of consumption. So I'll just say that last week on the podcast,

we talked about a sort of mythological, spiritual figure of sort of Algonquin or Ojibwe origin. I have been since told by people that the Ojibwe people prefer you not say that word. So I'm just going to say whenever that word appears in this email, I'm just going to say, like, the spirit. That's what I'm going to say instead. So, and if that feels like a half measure, I'm sure people will let me know, Hobbits and drag is at Gmail.com. So Mike wrote, this week's episode, meaning last week's episode, brings me to a theory about being in the plane of existence between life and death and how a decision the characters are confronted with in that dimension could be what determines if they live or die. In each of these scenes, we've witnessed that the characters have been offered something to eat or drink. I think that this is their submit to death slash go into the light ultimate a moment.

When they consume that which is being offered, they die. When they do not, they live. Here's what we've seen so far. Jackie offered hot chocolate, drank it, died. Lottie offered mall food, didn't consume, survived. Shana, offered tea, didn't consume, survived. Shauna's baby offered breast milk, drank and died. There have been two other characters that have mentioned this in between dimension

that we have not witnessed along with them. Van after she was attacked by wolves in 96 and Travis in present day when he was exfixating, being hoisted up on the crane. We likely won't ever know about Travis, sadly. Van, however, is alive, and I'm hoping you hear her discuss her in-between experience at some point. Perhaps Lottie can bring it out of her now they're all assembled at the retreat. The power of the wilderness, the god of that place, as Lottie refers to, is strikingly

similar to the malevolent spirit of that spirit we were talking about. I believe you discussed the spirit on the pod before to dive a little deeper. This is a First Nation evil spirit whose lore is said to have originated in the Canadian wilderness. It is depicted as a gaunt humanoid with his bones showing blood around its mouth with horns or antlers sound familiar. It is said to invoke feelings of insatiable hunger or greed, the desire to cannibalize other humans, and to compel its victims to commit murder when under its influence slash possession. The spirit is said to never be satisfied, constantly searching for new victims to feed on, and possessing others to do its own bidding.

and is starving, makes its victims feel starved and crave to kill. Of course, its life or death ultimatum would be masked in a choice about consuming something being served by their loved ones. To go one step further in Season 2 episode 2, the Yellow Jackets have a similar hallucination to the ones we've shared with the characters in their in-between experiences when it came to their consumption of Jackie's corpse. They were in a trance of a Greek feast. Shauna felt Jackie was inviting them to eat her.

Within the lies of the story, it was actually the spirit offering up Jackie as a way to further possess them all. coach Ben and Hobby not included. So there's two things I want to say about this. One, I love this. I mean, the laying out of the characters and what they chose to consume and not was very interesting to me. And it made me think, of course, of the, speaking of the Greek Fists, the Feast, the mythological association with Hades and Persephone, and this idea that if Persephone because she ate just a few seas of the pomegranate was forced

then to spend half of the year in the underworld, this idea if you eat. the thing, you stay in the underworld. And so I like that association with what Mike laid out here. My only question is then if we see the Ben and Paul scenes as a similar in-between plan of existence thing, I believe Ben ate the soup that Paul offered to him. So I guess but the clam chowder though is before. Well, we don't know for sure, but we think the clam chowder was the one tree. memory. Right, right. Because it's before nationals. So like, if that's his origin of this,

this, this journey into this alt space and it starts with, here's a real thing that happened. And from there, I build this, this alternate path. Then maybe he actually ate the soup in real life hasn't yet consumed any seeds, any soup, any hot chocolate, any mall food, any anything. Oh, Ben. I say Ben dies next episode. I feel sure. I mean, this is a, yeah, really interesting, really interesting email from Mike. The, yeah, the pattern here is, the Jackie Hot Chocolate thing was like so conspicuous at the time, right? Because there's this like, hey, just warm. And the mall food, familiar.

Yeah, you could be anywhere in a mall, but a food court. And again, maybe there's just like the hot chocolate is something warm and comfortable. The mall food is like how you hang out with friends. Maybe there's a way to just explain all of that. But it does seem like if it's recurring beat after beat, it's, uh, Yeah. And even Ty, right? Like, if the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, it's, like, consumption. Consumption. Yeah. Yeah. Interesting. All right. Well, that does it for us, except for best needle drop. Oh boy. You know, my instinct would be to pick something in the way anytime it appears, but because that's so firmly Gotham-centric for us in our recent headspace,

I'm going to go with lightning crashes. I thought that was just top-tier needle-drop stuff at the end of this episode. What about you? Something in the way made me laugh so hard in a moment where the show was trying to make me really sad. So just like for its inappropriateness, I kind of want to pick that. But I might just pick six underground by sneaker pimps because that's a jam. And it was like a sort of more subtle needle drop versus the live and the Nirvana. So, um, and the Florence.

But great, great week for Florence for Florence. Great week for Florence in pop culture. All right. Um, I think we covered all of our last stuff so we don't need to do that. So I think that's it for us. Yeah. Go wander the woods and do some woo-woo shit, Joe. Self care?

Foraging? I'm going to go forage some tequila. Thanks as always to our producer Carlos Scherboga for his work on this, and we will be back next week, episode eight. Bye.