The Prestige TV Podcast - ‘Yellowjackets’ Season 2 Finale Recap

Episode Date: May 26, 2023

Mallory and Joanna break down the Season 2 finale of 'Yellowjackets.' They talk about everything that happens in the episode, from the crowning of a new antler queen in the 1996 timeline to a renewed ritual and a shocking death in present day. They also look ahead to where the story could go next season and beyond. Hosts: Joanna Robinson and Mallory Rubin Associate Producer: Carlos Chiriboga Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Ders. Hello, welcome back to the prestige TV podcast feed. I'm Joanna Robinson joining today live from Stockholm, Sweden. It's Mallory Rubin. Joanna, I'm a podcast or two. Not like you, alas. I'm a lifelong asthmatic. Quoting my beloved Walter is a great way to start our coverage of the Yellow Jackets finale.

We are here in Sweden for business reasons, but we are in the same room for the first First time ever. First time in-room podcast ever. We've been in the same room together. Right. But we have never recorded a podcast in person, despite being literal hundreds of hours. Weeks and months on the mic. I'm confident of this. So it's great. We're going to do a sort of bear in mind. Yeah. This might be a little different from our usual yellow jacket's coverage. It's the finale. We want to give it like the full benefit of our attention. We each watch the episode a couple times. Yes. We are also. mildly jet lagged in Sweden.

Mildly. Okay. Joanna's being charitable. Neither of us has slept in four days. So yes, this will be a different podcast experience, but we will pour our heart and soul into it nonetheless. Just like Walter poured Fina Blubertal into some hot cocoa. Yes.

We will give this as much attention as a handmade mask of the wildlife of your choosing. Yeah. Yeah. You could put some like nubbins on it, some fash. had some feathers, and it'll be ours. And we made it together, and no one will be able to take that away from us, no matter how jet-lagged we are. What animal do you feel like you would like your masks to most look like when you hunt one of your oldest and nearest and nearest friends in the forest? This is where I think to honor our season of yellow jackets and come full circle, I say to you,

I would just not hunt one of my nearest interiors. I don't believe you did it to me again. What mask would you make? Would you go with an animal you loved, or would you want to distance yourself from that affection in such a savage state. I think if it's killer be killed. Yeah. Uh-huh. You have to go like Apex Predator. Okay.

So like a wolf, right? What if we did fire and ice? What if you're a dragon and I'm a dire wolf? Well, someone does eat a heart in this episode. I was like, damn, are we in Vista Thrac? I guess Travis is a Calisi now. All right. Season two, episode nine,

storytelling, directed by the great Karen Gussama, who directed the pilot. We're going to start with our impressions of the season overall. Now that we're at the end of season two. We talked a little bit about some of our critiques of last week's episode, and I felt some similar vibes here, like some hopping and skipping over some character choices to get where we needed to get by the end of the episode. And I think that would be my sort of my feedback for this. season overall. There's so much I loved. And listen, most importantly of all, Walter is still alive.

I'm thrilled for you. Thank you. Thank you. I consider it personal gift to me. Hashtack Walter lived. Nugget did not, but Walter did. But Nugget never lived, you know? So at the end of the day, there's that. Like Schrodinger's Nugget. You know what I mean? If you had told me that at the end of this season, Walter and Ben would both be alive, I would have said you accidentally did not complete season two of Yellow Jackets. That is the only plausible explanation. And as far as we know, Steve, not our beloved producer Steve, who's in the room with us, but, you know, the dog Steve is still alive. We don't know. As far as we know. And that is one of my big critiques of season two of Yellow

Jackets. Okay. What became of Steve? Will we ever find out the number of Protect Steve shouts that went out on the Ringer podcast network early this season, nary a follow-up. No closure. I mean, I'm not saying I would prefer a repeat of biscuits, head and heart on the altar from the season one finale. I'm glad we didn't get that kind of clarity and closure. But I need to know if Steve is okay. I'm sure this is where you would say that you want to know if Sammy and Simone are okay. And just in general, everything having to do with Ty's life is Ty's career.

Colligula? Caligula? I feel like is thriving. Okay. Thriving. I'm sure Misty has a robust. like rover.com account. Without question. Without question.

I enjoyed this season. I think we feel similarly about it. Some, you know, I'll borrow one of your favorite words. Some wobbles. A wobble here, a wobble there. Yeah. I think that it's, you know, I always look forward to rewatching an entire season once we've reached the end.

In this case, I think I'm actually like most interested in rewatching the entire series. And to try to like really see how they feel as a cohesive block, how season two plays right on the tails of season one with all of it fresh. Yeah. There's a part of me that thinks that the things that maybe like didn't hit quite as well in real time with season two of Yellowjackets will feel a little bit different to us when we revisit, as is often the case, right? But in part because it's like, here we are on the prestige TV podcast, right? and this is prestige TV, but also it is, I think, unapologetically bonkers. And that was, like, more on display than ever

in certain stretches of this season. The moments that I think, like, worked less well were the ones where, as we've discussed throughout the season, we can't keep our bearings of, like, whether what we're seeing is real or if we're zipping forward, maybe through time or lose our sense of time completely. Overall, I had a blast.

great fun, great fun to talk about it with you. I love to theorize about this show every week. It was really wonderful to do that in real time. No, like 10 on 10, no notes about podcasting about this show with you. Absolutely. But I like that you raise the prestige question because we did get an email from listener, Colleen. Steve, do you want to make a live call sound? Yeah.

That was pretty good. It was really good. Steve, do you have a sound effect that can turn the air conditioning on? Or it, no. No? A sound effect that can find us. a bottle of still water here in Stockholm? No, okay.

All right, Colleen wrote, I recently heard someone say that they thought of Yellow Jackets as more CW than HBO, and that made me wonder about what defines, quote-unquote, prestige TV, and is Yellow Jackets still on that list

after this season? Yeah. And I would say yes, especially because of the caliber of actors involved, that's a big part of it, though we lost a major player. in this week's episode.

Yeah. Like a major element of the prestige went out of the show in this week's episode. But I think that, I think to your point about the disorientation we felt sometimes with the unreliable points of view that we had is one thing. But to take an example from this episode, I think what, if I were to pick out one thing that bothered me a little bit more about the season, it would be those individual motivations. like I had trouble tracking Vans' evolution of motivation in this episode, at which point does she buy back in? You know, when I rewatch it the second time, I was clocking every single Lauren Ambrose reaction so I could try to figure it out. And so in those moments, and I feel like we got some of those last week, too, it feels like almost there's a scene missing. Yeah.

Or an episode. Yeah. It's a nine episode season, not a 10 episode season. Our main cast in the present day was not together until the last couple installments. Right, Shauna. And I think particularly given, like, one of the things that we've discussed this season as a feature in general, which is the characters not just being fixed in their stance, but also when they move between alliances, factions, point of views, allegiances,

that it's not just I started here and then I moved to there, and that's my journey, that they're constantly moving back and forth, but, like, at some point if it's too hurried, it goes from oscillation and movement. The risk is that it can go from oscillation and movement to whiplash, right? And like, yeah, the van, I think in particular, maybe we're feeling it because we've just had less time with her in the present day. It's funny. Since we're, well, in the last couple weeks, as you know, I've started watching Survivor, like for the first time. Just as like a stress reliever, old seasons of Survivor.

And mark your bingo cards. Here's where I'm going to talk about loss. As we know, Survivor Begat lost. Lost in a way. Begat Yellow Jackets. So watching this episode through the lens of Survivor for the first time was really interesting because of those ideas of like alliances that shift voting blocks that shift. You know, who's in charge of the faction this week, et cetera. And the creators of the show had talked previously about this idea of the Antlecreen being sort of this title that has passed around.

and we saw it ritualized in this week's episode. We certainly don't think this is the last time one of these young women are going to be crowned. Or I don't want to gender it. Travis could be the antler queen as well. I believe in him. But someone, you know, is going to get the immunity necklace or become an antler queen or whatever it is. And I found that to be a really cool and fascinating part of this episode. It's just a shame that it comes with the end.

of Juliette Lewis. Like, what a devastating... I was shocked. Absolutely dismayed. Shocked. And like, a shocking death. You know, PrestiGV is constantly chasing a shocking death. They love to shock us with a death.

And I was live texting you from my hotel room to your hotel room as we were watching it. And I was like, I listed the people I was worried about. And the person who died was not on the list because I was like, wouldn't have occurred to us to say from elimination this week, Mallory. You definitely Juliet Lewis. Delightful. No one is voting her out, right?

I'm, and I started texting you conspiracy theories. I was like, does Juliette Lewis not want to be on the show anymore? Because I was like, there's no reason you get rid of a heavy hitter like Juliet Lewis unless just to shock viewers. I don't think that's why they would do it. Though I don't know these showrunners very well. What do you think?

Well, I guess the first, like, thought or question I had is just because it's, because it's yellow jackets. Yeah. Which means we are always moving between timelines. Any new timeline could be introduced at any point, but also like planes of existence, including potentially a limbo between life and death and afterlife, whatever the case may be. I don't necessarily consider a death on yellow jackets final until I know it is. Like it still seems possible that a character or performer could come back in.

Right. Obviously that's less likely in the present day. The character's dead, but we may see her. Maybe we'll see Nat again. Visions, you know what I mean? Like we saw dead Jackie, plenty. Yeah.

Okay, fair enough. But I do think it's different when it's one of the adult characters in the present day. Like, if that happened in the past, you'd just say, well, I can see this character in any number of ways. If, I guess, like, the question

of how many years we're playing with in between remains on my mind because, you know, we glimpsed the 98 timeline, right? the return from the wilderness and then never went back. So presumably we'll be spending more time there next season. Now those are going to be the young cast members, but how much of those intervening 25 years? Like, will we cover at some point in the potential five-season run of Yellowjackets?

And if we're a few years before where season one picked off, could Juliette Lewis come back? So, like, I don't know that it's totally out of the question that Juliette Lewis is in the cast, but you're right. It does. It's just unlikely that they, basically like one of the main leads on the show would return in that capacity at a minimum. That's not going to happen.

If you ask me like which three actors were safe. Yeah. Right? I would have said Melanie Olinsky, Christina Ricci, Jiliuio, Louis. No question. You know what I mean? Like with love and respect to Tony Cyprus, who's amazing, to Lauren Ambrose, who's amazing, like, you know, etc. Like these are the, anyway, this is the state of play that we're in here at the end of season two.

And they're only, you know, as far as they've said, and this is a wild landscape of television that we're living through right now. There's a huge writer strike. We don't know what's going to happen. But they've said they've only planned on doing like five-ish seasons at most, you know. And if it's nine, you know, there's not that much time. So like maybe we lose a major adult player every season going forward or something like that. Because I have a theory. Do you want to jump, like, straight to theory corner?

This is a wild and loose Swedish episode of the Presti-TV podcast. No bad time for Theory Corner. I mean, on the one hand, I think it's going to be interesting. We haven't yet to, correct me if I'm wrong. We have yet to watch a young person character continue to live out their life while knowing they're going to die in the future. Travis. Travis.

Okay. Yeah. And it's still interesting to watch Travis and what he's going through. will still be interesting to us to watch Nat. It will be poignant and tragic to watch any kind of struggle she makes. But it's like knowing that she never really digs herself out of that hole character-wise, this is not my theory. This is just I got sidetracked into thinking about character arcs.

Like, knowing that Nat will never fully dig herself out of that hole, we've been on this plane for years and years. You know what you mean? Like she considers herself still crashed there. watching her wrestle with her morality or whatever the case may be, that takes some of the tension out of it? Do you know what I mean? It makes me think back to the entire season that Nat shared with Lisa and like their conversations as in hindsight, the resolution and the piece for Nat's character that is not going to come further in the future. Like, do you still want to kill yourself not today. That exchange in episode four. And even when Nat is on the plane, you know,

and you've got a hobby on the left and then young Nat on the right and the Lottie on the left, etc. And before the younger version of Nat says what you just said, adult Nat says, I'm not supposed to be here. Right. And that was like pretty devastating. And that push, pull and side of Nat inside of the character. Yeah. In general, like, we've talked a lot across the season about this idea of, like, the kind of like the call,

the summons, the pull of the darkness and the wilderness. So I thought that that was captured in a, like, a very tragic and painful way there. And of course, it's painful for all of the characters. You know, Misty to say, this is my best friend. Now, that was a narrative. That's a definition.

Yeah. It spun for herself, right? Yeah. To do that. I thought that losing Nat was very poignant and hit hard. There were like little things in the presentation of the moment and just the like scene choreography where it's like, as you know, a pet peeve of mine is a flashback that we don't need. And like we don't, we know why Nat is making that choice or feels in the moment that that's the right thing to do. We don't need like the callback to the exchange between

young Nat and Ben that we watched literal moments prior. Right. A flashback. Yeah. You don't, you hate a flashback within an episode of something we just saw. I had a similar note when Misty was recapping last week's episode to Lottie in bed. I'm like, why are we watching this? We know what happens. Oh, Misty. Please don't give us a previously on. Yeah. And I mean, I suppose that is a completion for Nat's arc to, instead of, you know, letting Hobby drown and saving herself, she puts herself in front of Lisa. I let him die in my place was the lament to Ben. And then I think to see that I have no idea if we're supposed to be weaving in and out of the past and the present for one character or not. We're not doing that this week. Feeling out in real time, folks.

Much as the yellow jackets do out in the wilderness, what could go wrong? What could go wrong? Steve, we're hungry, so be careful, you know? I thought you wouldn't eat a friend, Mallory. That's your whole high and mighty stairs. This idea that, like, Nat's great, lament and

plague, this plague of guilt and this crisis of confidence and faith and this question of like, who am I? And Ben saying, like, you're not like them and Nat saying, I'm even worse. And then what's the thing that comes right on the heels of that for Nat? Is it a fall?

No, it's a rise, right? Everybody bends the knee. She becomes the queen. And so, like, what does that do if on the heels of what you would perceive is your great failure. Like a moment when you weren't the person you thought you were,

everyone says you're the one to lead us now. It reinforces that, yeah, that attitude. It's interesting. And like one thing when we were interviewing the showbruners at the beginning of the season that Jonathan Liscoe said

when we asked about Travis, like that inconsistency we saw between not saying last season Travis never believed in that crap versus what we saw from Travis this season. And I asked about it. He said, I feel like that's Natalie's way

of absolving herself from her own complicity. And I didn't really understand what he was talking about them, but I feel like I understand it in many different ways now. And especially this idea of Nat, we lumped her in with the nonbelievers. The non-believer becomes the leader. You know, we were thinking about like Shauna. And Shauna, according to her journaling, was also thinking of herself as like the next natural pick for leader.

Oh, Shana. Incredible stuff from Shana. How can it not? I loved it. I love the honesty. Yeah. I'm going to go zoom all the way back to Theory Corner that I brought up a couple minutes ago. And it's this idea of, I mean, there's the great line in this episode of, you know, it was never the wilderness. It was only us.

And Lonnie saying, what's the difference, right? But this is the constant question pushpole of the show is supernatural or not. So this theory corner is going to engage in the supernatural, okay? which is this idea of potentially something like a final destination-esque thing of Nat drew the queen of hearts in the past. And even though Javi went into the ice for her, it was always coming for her. Right. Once you draw the card, it's always going to come for you. And so what does that mean for Shawna that Shauna drew the card in this week's episode? Love this.

Yeah. Love it. Right? I love it. I love Final Destination. I have not seen those movies. As you know, I do not like horror films, but I am familiar with the premise of the Final Destination franchise. Right.

I guess Shauna should avoid, like, roller coasters. I feel like there's a roller coaster test in final destination. Don't drive behind a truck with any timber on it. That's a big one. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But there's also, like, the self-fulfilling prophecy aspect of all of this, right? And you think you've escaped something. You think you've outsmarted something.

In general, one of the things that I've enjoyed about Lottie's kind of crisis of faith is the original messianic figure. You know, we've talked about the, in our many lost references all season, the Jack Shepherd,

John Locke, man of science, man of faith, divide, and how one of our favorite things about loss is like, when those characters move, you know,

when Jack goes from being the skeptic and the stoic into a staunch believer. Right. And when John, spoilers for lost. I mean, we've said that every week,

but these are not specific. Loses this thing. Just lose the crisis of faith. And then what does it mean of my entire identity has been wrapped up in this belief? And I have brought other people into that belief with me

and then I don't believe in that anymore. And that was Lottie this episode. So like the characters are kind of moving all, they're inverted, right? From where they were previously, from in many cases from where they are in the other timeline. And that is,

that's a fascinating thing. And from the Lottie perspective, like that idea, you were talking about this the last couple weeks and last week in particular where like the fact that Lottie and of course in the present day, this is, I think in the process

of talking about this and constantly having to say like in the past or in the present or this is when this person thinks this and this is when they don't kind of illustrates your initial point. But hey, it's yellow jackets, right? But like to see that Lottie is the one in the present day who is pushing so fervently

for the ritual, the draw. Lottie is the one telling us Lottie is the one telling us about the draw, for example. You know, Taisa, are you refusing the draw? Because you know what happens if you do. So these are little teases, not only that something's going to happen at some point in the past when somebody refuses the draw,

but that Lottie becomes a participant again in the thing that she was resisting in those conversations with Misty up in the attic in this episode, handing over the leadership crown, the antlers, etc. If you were to sum up Lottie's, teen Lottie's attitude in this episode and forward, words, what would you say? Would it be a don't want it? A don't want it. I've looked into as I saw the Night King Davos. To your, to your John Locke, Man of Faith Crisis point. I nailed with the bare heart. Davos. It's not really what John Snow sounds like, but I'm doing my best. You know, through the lens of Sweden, anything is possible. One of my favorite, one of my favorite favorite deliveries, I'm sure I brought it up before, but one of my favorite deliveries of a lost line is Terro Quinn is as John Locke saying, I was wrong. There's just like the way he says it. And how that to his spine, you know, shakes who he is and all the blood that's on his hands because of what he did. To go back to, this is not literally about Final Destination, but to go back to that theory corner, I want to read the, our second and only other email this week because, again, this is a traveling podcast.

And this is a little bit of a lengthy email, but I'm going to read it anyway because it is fascinating. It's from Adelaide and it is about the concept of the liminal space, the space in between. You and I are, you know, lit majors. Were you a lit major? Were you a lit major? I was a journalism major. That's right. English minor.

English and Polly Siaminers. You just talked about Jane Austen a lot. I did take a wonderful Jane Austen class that I absolutely loved. Shout out to Mike Good, one of the best professors I ever had. And the healing waters of bath. All right. Wow. Good memory.

Adelaide says, Adelaide wrote one framework for looking at, and about this idea of ritual. Ritual and liminal space, liminal space in between. Okay. So one framework for looking at some rituals is as rites of passage. This type of ritual changes someone's social status or identity within a society. For example, a bar bat mitzvah changes someone from a child to an adult. Other examples would be marriage, graduation, baptism, etc. This framework describes rituals as having three stages.

Separation when the person loses their old role. Number two, a quote unquote liminal in between stage when their identity is changed. And three, reincorporation when the person rejoins a society. with their new role. Later expansion on this theory by Victor Turner really focused on this liminal stage where the identity of the person undergoing the ritual is ambiguous. Without that defining identity, the people undergoing the ritual together develop a unique camaraderie where normal social divisions are irrelevant. The quote-unquote death ritual we see in episode eight with the wilderness altar at the center of the circle, cards drawn, the necklace exchange,

etc. can be thought of as a rite of passage. It changes Nat's identity. This is really interesting. This is Joanna saying it's really interesting. It changes Nat's identity from friend to victim and it changes the identity other girls from teammates to killers.

Through that lens, it's really interesting that the ritual was interrupted. Nat doesn't die. Unless they create a new ritual to reincorporate her and give her back her previous role of teammate, maybe by taking the necklace off again, then Nat never leaves the liminal stage.

maybe even into the present she is marked for death in a state of ambiguous identity. Maybe that makes her vulnerable to the wilderness God. And maybe the other girls have never transitioned back out of being killers. One more point from Adelaide here. The other relevance I see for this theory is for the wilderness experience overall. It's not a specific ritual, but the girls are separated from society, placed into a state where their previous identities don't apply, a liminal state, literally just reading through the Wikipedia, p-dia page about liminal states, it applies eerily well to the show. Quote, according to Turner, all liminality must eventually dissolve, for it is a state of great

intensity that cannot exist very long without some sort of structure to stabilize it. Either the individual returns to the surrounding social structure or else liminal communities develop their own internal social structures, a condition Turner calls normative commutas. So, great email from Adelaide, who wrote this long before, episode nine hit. So marking not for death. And I love that idea of a, again, sort of final destination-esque, but way more sophisticated, of this idea of a ritual interrupted, right? And so not, not never fulfilled her destiny as someone marked for death. And again, that is buying into a supernatural idea. or, as you say, a self-fulfilling prophecy.

You see yourself marked for death. Maybe you just barrel towards that anyway. Interesting. What do you think about these liminal space ideas? I like that. I guess the question of like, unless there's some sort of new embrace or like a call back,

paraphrasing the exact phrasing there, but there was like, I guess the question of whether the crowning of that kind of, counts as that. Moving from victim to leader or something like that. Yeah. But then that kind of gets back to the idea of the 25-year cycle and the show

operating on cycles, right? And the fact that maybe these characters are on parallel paths across timelines so that even if they make a progression in one moment in time, the regression comes again, which is like very sad and gets into some interesting questions about, you know, what level of like control. I mean, so does the final destination theory, right? like what level of, if you've been marked and you're doomed, and that is like a predetermined thing in the world

where the show is operating in that supernatural capacity, then the question of like what your choices mean. In some ways you could say, well, that would limit that. I think there's a view on it in this show where like, you could say it almost put more weight behind the choices if and we'll learn more about what happens to the other characters. But if there's the sense that what awaits them is inevitable, that they can't escape it,

but they try to break through and out of it anyway, then that would be like a powerful thing. I think also that idea of, because the email mentioned the idea of the team, right? And like, it was interesting to hear Misty, unsurprising that it would be Misty. Of course. Equipment manager, the person who was most eager to be a part of the team,

who sometimes fell down the fringe is not welcome, your team needs you, this appealed loti, which ultimately worked And with the twist of the spin from Lottie's perspective, of like the way I can help my team is by letting somebody else do the thing that I no longer feel comfortable or equipped to do, right? One last footnote to all of this.

There has to be a supernatural aspect of this show because Lottie healed very quickly. Well, you know, it's those delicious hobby steaks. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. The cutlets. Protein rich. Yeah, yeah. Iron, iron dense.

Sure. Oh, boy. For hobby. Tough one for Avi. That was, boy. All right. Let's just like kind of zoom through the episode, shall we? We're going in chronological order of the episode. First needle drop. Yeah. Cranberries. Zombie.

Wonderful. Yeah. Delightful. Not our first cranberries moment here in the Yellow Jackets universe here in the hive. Wonderful. Wonderful to be back. Great stuff. Are you looking for support in your weight management journey? Zep bound to Zepet, may be able to help. Zepbound is a prescription medicine used with a reduced calorie diet and increased

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allergic reaction. Severe side effects may include inflamed pancreas or gallbladder problems. Tell your doctor if you experience vision changes before scheduled procedures with anesthesia if you're nursing, pregnant, plan to be, or taking birth control pills. Taking Zepbound with a sulfonal urea or insulin may cause low blood sugar. Side effects include nausea, diarrhea, and vomiting, which can cause dehydration and worsen kidney problems. Talk to your doctor. Call 1-800-545-99-9 or visit Zep Are you looking for support in your weight management journey? Zepbound terseptitide may be able to help. Zepbound is a prescription medicine used with a reduced calorie diet and increased physical activity to help adults with obesity. Or some adults with overweight who also have weight-related medical problems to lose excess body weight and keep the weight off.

Zepbound is approved as a 2.5, 5, 7.5, 10, 12.5 or 15 milligrams. injection. Zepbound contains terseptide and should not be used with other terseptide containing products or any GLP1 receptor agonist medicines. It is not known if Zepound is safe and effective for use in children. Don't share needles or pens or reuse needles. Don't take if allergic to it, or if you or someone in your family had medullary thyroid cancer, or if you've had multiple endocrine neoplasia syndrome type 2. Tell your doctor if you get a lump or swelling in your neck. Stop Zepbound and call your doctor if you have severe stomach pain or a serious allergic reaction. Severe side effects may include inflamed pancreas or gallbladder problems.

Tell your doctor if you experience vision changes before scheduled procedures with anesthesia if you're nursing, pregnant, plan to be, or taking birth control pills. Taking Zepbound with a sulfonal urea or insulin may cause low blood sugar. Side effects include nausea, diarrhea, and vomiting, which can cause dehydration and worsen kidney problems. Talk to your doctor. Call 1-800-545-9-9 or visit zepbounds.lily.com. This episode is brought to by Whole Foods Market. Spring is here, so celebrate it with fresh, juicy, seasonal produce

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Get savings with yellow sale signs storewide and everyday low prices on 365 brand items. Enjoy the fresh flavors of spring. Save at Whole Foods Market. I was interested. We had talked about whether they would preserve Javi's outfit, you know? And took off the converse, smart.

You can't waste a pair of Chuck Taylor's, even if it's not the most practical cold weather shoe, as you've noted, summer's coming again. Yeah, the rubber soul. I mean, if David Tennant's doctor taught me anything. You know, the... Delightful. The tearing of the other garments, though.

It's like, folks, I know it's a high-stress situation, but we need to preserve all of these items as best we can. They don't know how few clothes they're going to wind up having by the end of the episode. Yeah. Gotta keep the matches away from Coach Ben. Folks. Not great.

Got to. Did you, are we on the bleeding of Havi yet? Can we talk about the? I would love to be on the bleeding of Havi. I guess I'm zipping past Travis seeing that his brother had died in the very emotional moment that he had with that. And his one feeble no? Very sad. Did not try very hard.

I expected him to fight harder. So sometimes we remind our listeners that because we're watching on screeners, we don't have scenes for next week. Now, obviously, it's the finale. So that's not sure. main today. But last week, we debated how we thought Travis would react. And then I watched the preview for the finale and there's just like a shot of him taking a giant bite. Oh, we look so dumb. Well, there you go. This is like, this is like the full DeNaris Targaryen.

This is like the two of us on the Ring ofverse Hype podcast getting really excited about Indiana Jones of the Dial Destiny literally the day before the reviews came out. Listen. The hype is real. Even when it bombs and can. It is short-lived. It is beautiful and it burns bright. When Shauna is preparing to slice to slice a hobby open and bleed him dry

so that they can cut him up and eat him, she covers her face. And there were two things that popped into my mind with equal force. one, and this is not the only moment in the finale where face coverings come into play, right? But of course, we have to think when we see especially a character

in the wilderness timeline, pull something over their face. We think of our opening experience in the pilot and every step we take closer to that fireside, full on, furs covering us. We're all in our garb, cannibalistic ritual, which I still think you're right

that that's like next winter, but again, like everything that these characters do, It's like, well, now they don't have a home, so maybe they need to look for furs really quickly. I don't know where they find them, but it could be like tomorrow. The other thing I thought of, though, was Tom and Greg. Because it reminded me of the Ordilon scene. And this idea of, like, Tom saying, you know, for the head when he puts the napkin over and he's explaining to Greg the ritual of eating Ordlawn, the exact purpose is debated.

Some say it's to mask the shame. Others to heighten the pleasure. And there was an element of that where Shauna is like feeling around. Yeah. I think they're all appalled and ashamed and repelled by their own, by the necessity, but also by their own desire. But also that desire is present. There was like the hunger is palpable. There's like a.

So, you know, love and respect to all the directors who have worked on Yellow Jackets, but I do think that Karen Kusama brings like something slightly elevated. and I feel like the shot of like Shana's searching fingers on poor dead tall Holly's neck and the hunger, the yearning. That's part of that. I completely agree. I know you're always thinking of the Orde-Lon. I was not thinking of the Orde-Lon scene. That gave me brainy! From Succession.

I was thinking of a couple other things. Justice is blind, right? Like that sort of thing. But then also on the blind executioner front, there is this like legendary. Irish blind executioner of mythology. Forgive me if I butcher the Gaelic, but Magruth is the name of this figure, who might have been real, might have been not.

And some people think he's the person who executed John the Baptist, who cut John the Baptist's head off. And so I was thinking some like, mythological blind executioner, but also, yeah, Tom and Greg. It's all in the mists. But yeah, that idea of like shame, but also pleasure. And Van gives that whole speech to Travis about how she's not ashamed later, right?

I loved that. It was the kind of, you know, it's a large cast with many timelines. And so sometimes you get these moments and you're utterly captivated and just find yourself like really wishing you had gotten more time with a certain pairing. I don't think we've ever seen Van talk to Travis. I was, it was like 30 seconds. Yeah. Now, part of that is because every moment with Van in the wilderness timeline is incredible. Yes.

And the looks, the facial expression. I mean, when they're carrying Javi back, the look on Van's face is like, burrowing. Absolutely harrowing. But that conversation with Travis was amazing. I'm glad I'm alive just like you are. And I don't think that any of us who are still here should feel ashamed of that ever. Now, I think to your opening note from the pod, you could say, we're only like an episode and a half at that moment removed from Van talking to Ty about this absolute loss of like a sense of purpose. This is a different place for the character to be.

And that's a rapid, it was a rapid descent into the absence of purpose and then it's a rapid return to this kind of. And I understand like the way in which teen Van doesn't confuse me that much in this episode. at all, like the, how the hunt can reinvigorate, how just having literal food in your body can reinvigorate. We know that from Survivor when they go on a reward and they actually get to eat for the first time in 14 days. Look at you. I know how people are like, stop talking about loss. Now I'm going to talk about Survivor. Anyway, I've been waiting for this for so long. But like, yeah, I agree with you. Like it didn't, I don't bump on it with team van. It's more adult van that I have questions about in this episode. And I think in part because like when when we hear

van say that to Travis, when we hear van say that in the wilderness, there's an aspect of van that feels like true to the van we know and true to the van we've been with the whole time, which is, I'm going to say the thing I think. Yeah. I'm going to say the thing I feel. You might not be ready to hear it, right? That's Travis here. It's been tied previously. But it is true. And I have like a comfort in that. Travis is pretty ready because he's like chewing on a ventricle like pretty quickly thereafter. You know what I mean? Don't. want to, first of all, you don't want to waste the meat, but also, like, he got a whole speech from ban about what he owed to his poor dead brother. And that meant taking a bite of his

raw, bleeding heart before frying it up. This is a great show. I just want to say. I hope every finale ends with something with a heart. I love this. What heart? We had the bare heart in season one with Lonnie kneeling. Now we got Javi's heart. What heart will we end in season three with? Okay. I know you said that you would never eat a part of. me or a friend. But if I died and was sacrificed to, like, nourish the entire tribe. You, like, gave a speech, like, Lottie last week, you know, I don't want you to waste me. Yeah.

Would you eat my heart? Is this just a long con to get me to say the thing that I wouldn't say in the opening episode? No, I'm just, like, I'm wondering how close we are. Like, do you care about me the way that Travis cares about Javi? Would you give one feeble no, then let people butcher me and then eat my heart? No matter what your wish was, if you were gone, I would. try to honor your final wishes because I care about you that deeply. I do. Okay. I do. But I just, I want to say for the record that I feel sure I would die first. Absolutely certain. Again,

another is absolutely certain. All that is on my mind as I'm watching Survivor because I know that you're- I don't want you guys to eat me if I die. I know this, but like, I want to be buried with respect. I disagree because like, however physically frail you might think you are and I only know this because you're constantly saying, I'm my joints. However, physically fairly may think you are. Yeah.

This might be my last Survivor reference, but I can't promise. As I'm watching the seasons, I'm constantly thinking, literally, could Mallory win Survivor? And I think you could on your social game. Thank you for saying this.

I appreciate it. It's kind. Here's why I do not think I could win Survivor. I just can't go more than 45 minutes. minutes without a snack. I can't do it. Also, that's right. I simply cannot.

It's very warm, wherever they are. Also very warm. And I would get badly sunburned. All right. So, let's talk about the adults in the sharing shack. Yeah. Yeah. I'm trying to track what's going on here.

Right. So Lottie is like, we can tell by the state of her eyeliner in a full-blown manic episode, right? And that's TV shorthand for losing it, is your eyeliner smudged down your face, right? And Shauna, to placate her is like, sure, let's do, no, let's forget the, you know, the poison in the tea or whatever. Let's do a hunt. That's how we really do it. And it's, you know, and Melanie Linsky, again, like similar to her dream acting last week,

makes it very clear to us with, like, the faces she's pulling, what her motivation here is. And, like, Christina, Riebush. too, like, you know, Misty is sort of like, yeah, you know. What do you think Van is thinking in that moment? Because Van later seems to want the hunt, the most out of, everyone kind of seems like they get swept up in it. Yeah. Hard to tell their masks involved. But right from the moment the cards come out.

Yeah, Van is. Yeah, and Ty's like, what's going on? Yeah. Thought we had a plan here. Right. Thought we had a plan here, Van. I think part of it, again, And I'll be eager to like revisit it after thinking about it a little bit more.

And we'll get the chance to hear, you know, some of the, here and read some of the interviews and everything. But I think like Vans proximity to death. We talked about this last week. The cancer prognosis would. Has to be a part of this. I got the sense watching Vans face during the card draw. It seemed to me that every person who's drawing the card doesn't want to get the queen except for Vans.

wants it. Who maybe both wants it. Yeah. And look disappointed. Van in particular looks disappointed not to be drawing it. Now maybe there's a feeling of I could save other people. Maybe there's a feeling of the inevitability. No, that was my sense too.

It was like I'm ready to go. And if I go like this, this is an interesting way to go, a full circle way to go. And then that flips seemingly post-hunt to Lottie and Van make meaningful eye contact. And Lottie's like, this will, essentially, I'm paraphrasing, this will bear fruit. You know, the wilderness will reward us. And you and I both agreed that like, without question. Probably Vans cancer is going to magically go away next season. And that will put all of these adult women, but certainly Van and Tye in a position to think the wilderness needs to be fed again next season.

Right. Yes. But Van's whole like, let's not call the doctor because we should help Lottie and then them not telling the other women that that's what they did. Like I have a lot of issues with how all of this rolled out and why the plan was not shared with everyone. Yeah. Why on earth you would like lead like with a mentally unstable woman. Yeah. And weapons sharp, huge fucking sharp knives in the forest. Yeah.

Not to mention two Chakovian guns that show up in this episode. Why, even if Ty agrees to this, she wouldn't tell Misty and Shana and that before they walk into the woods. Right. You know? I agree. That was strange. I think that it's not right.

She's like this because of us line from Van to Ty. And again, that sense of guilt. I think if we were only living inside of that sort of headspace with Van, maybe that would all track. But again, Van's initial response to seeing Lottie was like shocking to us at the time because it was like, how did this happen between these characters

when Van had been one of the people most devoted. Devoted to Lottie, one of the first to Nile, etc. So it does all just feel very tied up in like this sense that Van had. that it's over. And so, like, how do you work to, maybe from Vance's point of view, a tone in your final moments for mistakes that you think you've made? And so that she's like this because of us.

Now, again, I think you're right that, like, this is not the way to properly help somebody or seek treatment. But, you know, to the, like, why isn't everybody kind of in cahoots other than when they're looking over each other's shoulders, winking and nodding? That's where I think it gets back to the fact that, like, these characters just have not been in touch with each other. and don't really know

how to communicate with each other and actually don't have that bond or understanding anymore which I think again it could have maybe even something like that benefits from just like a couple more episodes where they're all together.

I agree. I feel really bad because I can't remember who wrote it but someone did write us an email this last week saying shout out to Van being the MVP of last week's episode for throwing Shauna's keys and therefore keeping Melanie Linsky in the main plot of the episode. They were like,

Shauna tried to drive out of the main plot again and Van kept her there. I was like, it's true. You know, Shauna got the van back from carjackers. I wouldn't rule out Shauna finding the keys in the woods. Shauna found the goat.

She could find the immunity idol. Okay. Everyone was like so worried about the people, you know, or the people in bed. And I was like, where is sweet Billy? I'm really concerned

as everyone roams the, the wild with knives and syringes full of lethal toxins. And also, I can't believe they left it up to lot. They're like, Lottie, make sure your people are safe. And Lottie, again, I must reiterate. Eiliner down to her cheekbones is like, sure, sure, sure. I'll take care of that. And they're like, Lottie, did you do that?

She's like, yep, everyone said they're going to stay inside while we hunt each other in the woods. And they're like, sounds great. Sounds like you did everything and you are trusted source. Everything's fine. And surely Lisa's not going to show up with the rifle that from you're safe in your office. Listen,

uh, Adam's remains were discovered. Our characters went to the art gallery of the murder victim and used turpentine to

wipe Sean's face off of paintings. There's a lot of mistakes across the season and, uh, you know, not the, not the criminal masterminds or,

uh, super organized, sunshine, honey, hunt ritual. protectors. I mean, you got to have Walter on it. He's the most on top of things, I think. I'm so glad you said Walter, because that is exactly where I wanted to go next to my guy, Walter, who makes like an absolute MVP appearance in this episode. And again, as I said,

I hope this was always the plan. But if it wasn't, Elijah would certainly just made a case for himself all season long to stay around for the future of Yellow Jackets because he's so delightful in this role. Wonderful. And doing exactly what I hoped he would do, which is murder people, gleefully. And you called it. Just wanted to be a part of the killing. My condolences to your hot, hot, Kevin Tann, no longer alive now very cold, I think, in the trunk of a car.

Very tough. Yeah. On the list of worst ways to go, you know, warm cup of cocoa with Elijah Wood. It's not that bad. Ensuring time with Jeff Sedecki. Oh, man. I would love to die at the president. of Jeff Sedecki.

We got a couple just absolute vintage signature. What? From utterances from Jeff in this episode. The Jeff Walter team up. Did I miss seeing Randy again, of course? But the Jeff Walter team up was everything that we possibly could have dreamed of and more. Okay. Season three pitch.

Yeah. The Sedeckis and Walter and Misty go on a couple's vacation together. I love it. When Walter walked out and said, that was a beautiful follow. Confession, I could see he came out of real love. Dying. Jeffrey, does he go call you that? Yeah. Yeah, my mom. No, no, she does. When he says, hiya, me again, and I'm going to pronounce it correctly aside, phenobarbital.

Barbatol, I got it. I nailed it. I crushed it. I messed up earlier, but I think he was like, phenobarbital barbent. Like, just, and we knew, right? We saw Walter singing some Sondheim. I'll talk about that in a second. Staring the pot of Coco. and then we lose sight of him as the camera goes around the corner. And then he shows up with a mug. And I'm like, are you really? Detective Kevin Tan, are you really taking a beverage from a guy dressed in all purple standing on the cult premises? Like, Kevin.

Too dumb to live. I was just. Too hot to die. Too dumb to live, Kevin Tan. I was just going to say to quote the. iconic email we got on House of Art during the Mandalorian run. Our Mandalorian's too dumb to live. This was a real our Mandalorian's too dumb to live moment here.

You just simply cannot take the mug of Coco from the cult guy, even if he's not actually a cult guy. Can't do it. Now to round back to Sondheim Corner. Sondheim fans listening to this podcast last week know that I made one of the most embarrassing podcast errors of my life that I don't want to talk about. But you remember how I had like a headache and was stressed last week? Anyway, I don't even want to talk about it. They know what I did. What happened?

I just got some things wrong when I was talking about Sweetie Todd last week. So I'm not going to make that mistake this week. Send In The Clowns is a song that he is singing. It is from a Little Night music. And the reason I was really worried for Walter when he was singing the song as he stirring the cocoa that he will then poison and give to a real police detective. is the idea of that song is about a misconnection between lovers. Like it's a story of, you know, when they were younger, the man wanted to marry the woman.

And she was like, no, thank you. And then they're older. And she's like, now. And he's like, I married an 18-year-old, so not now. You know, so it's like me here at last on the ground, you in midair. like we're not going to meet. And so I was so worried that Misty and Walter, who shared a similar, like, enthusiasm on one side and then enthusiasm on other side, we're, like, doomed to have a permanent misconnection. Just amazing battery life on Misty's phone, you know, almost depleted, but still, the call came through.

But here's the important last thing about sending the clowns that I will say. Don't bother they're here. Maybe that's a reference to the cops. but like there's a reprise at the end of the musical and it's a happy ending. Anyway, that's my Sondheim Redemption Corner. How concerned should we be about Jeff Sadecki's eyesight? You know, we talk a lot on the pod about my need to procure corrective lenses at some point. Okay, Jeff Sadeke, too dumb to live, question mark. You send me the most damning screenshot.

I am frankly astonished when he went, when Jeff Siddiquette. backed out of the gate. First of all, don't pull up to the gate in the first place. Why does everybody in season two of Yellow Jackets pull up to the fucking Sunshine Honey Gate? I feel like this is the first time we heard that there was a back entrance via the kayak. It's a giant wilderness retreat. Like, walk through the woods, people.

Let's see some entrepreneurial spirit. Christ. They just get so excited because they were like, found it, you know? Yeah, you see the bee. And did Shawna drop a pin? Like, how did they know where Shauna was? I guess because Jeff told her after answering her phone where to go, then he knew, the moment when the three members of the cult are walking down the path and Jeff and Callie decide, let's find another way in. And Jeff reverses nearly rear-ending Hot Kevin and Saracusa, who are terribly tailing him. or, I mean, a yard, two yards away?

Like, are they more than the nose of a football away? Does Jeff see? Now, he's in a hurry. He's stressed. I get it. He has been giving Callie a speech on the drive up about how hard it will be to disappear. Do you Google yourself a lot? The Google exchange was iconic, but in the running for my favorite moment in Yellowjacket's history was after

that we need fake passports and the before how hard it would be to Google themselves, we can never eat our favorite takeout. Like the real sacrifices you'd have to make, Joanna. My line of the episode also goes to Jeff, but it is not in that scene. The American family is crumbling? You try making a living on sexual. Amazing. Wonderful stuff from Jeff, who should definitely be using his rearview mirror more.

That's all. That's all. Again, we're a little jet lagged. And so I had a moment where I was like, is he talking about sectionals of like a sports competition? Then I was like, oh no, Jeff sells furniture. Yeah. He's talking about sexual.

And he and Sean, I talk about when they roll play and thus they're trying to, trying to fuck. Right. And so. That was about a, uh, armour, if I recall, a wardrobe, a shiffero. No. What did they? You did read Jane Austen. No, I think they were they use armwar.

And it's, and it's a real toughie for Melanie Linsky's Australian accent, if I recall. Armware. But, Oh, God. A joke is not funny if you have to explain it, but I'm going to explain it anyway. Yeah, if the American family is crumbling, no one needs a sexual sofa. And that's what Jeff does for living? So what are you going to do?

So Walter and Jeff pull off. Walter is great at crime. And, like, who knows what heights they could soar to if he and Misty collaborated on a crime. I know. The collab of the century, season three. As devastating as it is to lose Nat, Misty no longer has a best friend, so more room for Walter. Sad.

When she's like my best friend, I almost expected to be like, I'm your best friend now. But if you wisely just folded her into an embrace. He knows how to read the room. The way that Misty's fingers were digging into Walter's back, it's going to be fine. Everything's going to be fine. Boy.

They'll be fine. Boy. I just need to, you just know that in my notes, since we're bouncing around, I'm trying to, or yet myself in my notes, it says, Shawna has a circuitory board of hobby, but we've already talked about that a bit. And also just says, insert Dineris joke here. Something I thought was really interesting is that in the adult timeline, right, Lottie gives the, everyone listens, everyone listen, what do we hear? And I said nothing but the rain.

And then add. Bring in the cast. Yeah. But she doesn't get her call and response. Also on the sort of something talking about a lot in terms of Lottie is this idea of zealots or religious figures or whatever misinterpreting or willfully bending the word of a prophet or a deity to their own needs. So when Misty's like, shit the fuck up, Lottie, do not make people feel bad about this and come downstairs. There's like Lottie's super, Lottie says Hobby's going to save us all.

Like, that's a perfect, you know, sort of false profit kind of moment from Missy. Absolutely. That I really loved. All right. We get Van story, you know, previously in last season we saw Van tell the story of a movie to her fellow yellow jackets. And as we hear in this episode, she's been doing that for a bunch of other movies, 90s movies. But what does she do in this episode that's different? Valerie. Tell us a story, as we could have been primed for by the name of the episode, Joe.

And here's the story that van tells. I have to be honest, the story was interrupted. I wanted to hear the rest of it, but I guess that would have spoiled future seasons of yellow jackets. What about something you haven't heard before? Once upon a time, there was a place called the wilderness. It was beautiful and full of life, but it was also lonely and violent and misunderstood. So one day, The wilderness built a house. It waited. Summers came. Winters came. Other characters came into the room and interrupted the rest of the story. That idea of the wilderness built a house, especially given the conclusion of the episode.

Now we'll talk about Ben in a few minutes and his pursuit of the coach Ben. Not Ben Linus and Jacobs Cabin, to be clear. But also that. Boy was Ben on my mind in this episode. a number of times. The question constantly of the it and what does the it want and is the it us

and the present day conversation between Sean and Coe that you already mentioned, is the wilderness responsible for taking the house in addition to the physical hand of Ben and will that be how the characters interpret it? Because Ben burns down that house, right? Are we reading this the same way?

Without question? Literally, like he literally picks up the box of magics and looks at them having their antler queen ritual through the window and was like, these bitch is crazy and decides to burn them. Bondance on his face when he realizes, because he invites Nat. He lost Nat. Right. When he sees her being around.

Yeah. And she's smiling. Right. And it's not just that she wouldn't accept his invitation and didn't feel worthy of it. It's that he sees that transformation in real time. And it's like, this is something that I have to rid the world of. Okay. And this is also, I think not coincidentally, the first time we've heard a mention, I think, of like witches and witchcraft because Walter in his like schick with Kevin Tan says there's a whole coven.

Yeah. There's a whole coven of them. Yep. And so this idea of like, you know, these women in the woods doing things, satanic things, it must be stopped. And I Ben, the righteous, you know. I mean, this is the fucked up mind trip that is Yellow Jackets because like, Ben. Right? Kind of, at least.

Sort of. I don't know if it justifies his burning up. But now he's an antagonist to our protagonists. And so, yeah, I mean, either they will say that the wilderness did this. Or since Nat, newly crowned Antler Queen, knows that Ben is lurking in a spot that Javi hid. But doesn't know exactly where it is. Season 3, Hunt for Ben? that conversation previously about Javi being lost to the darkness and kneeling by the tree,

by the creeks. And then like even that Javi was leading Nat when he fell, right? So I think that can very easily lead them to Ben. I don't know if it's going to be easy. But I, she has more clue. She has all the clues, Mr. Policeman. Exactly. And I wonder if that's how, because another surprise, I think, given that we got hatch, hatch, hatch, is that we didn't get the others. We talked last week about, okay, or these like Dharma stations where there's a network, but they're ultimately individual, or is there going to be like a connection, a tunnel system? I would, I would, I feel sure, though this will not be the first time I'm wrong about a Yellowjacket's theory that early in season three, they will find Ben

and he will then find, oh, the tunnels, because he's going to have to push to try to evade and maybe that leads him, or that he will be at that point, maybe scooped. by the others, as we thought he might be here. I know. When he was trying to light that fire. I thought it was going to get scooped. I was waiting for a hand. That was Primo scooping.

The darkest. My God. I just can't, I honestly can't believe Ben's live. I'm thrilled, though. I love Ben. He's clambering in and out of that tree with just the one leg. You know what I mean? Like, good job, guys.

Stealing things from the front porch, nobody's aware. The same group who did not know that someone was taking a shit next to their hands. That's what I was going to say. In the dead of night. The poop bucket is now cinders. Joanna. But I... It isn't.

It was one of the things as the fucking cabin was burning around them. So they took the time to grab. I liked to grab the blankets. That line I actually liked because... Yeah. It makes sense, like, first for protection from the smoke, but then also, like, we're going to be out in the cold, get the blanket sort of thing, and they are going to need those blankets.

That's the other reason I think they're going to find Ben quickly, right? is because, like, Nat's going to have to say, I know, Ben said he found a place where we could survive the winter. So it's not even, I don't think they're going to necessarily say, like, tonight, though, they're going to die. Like, I guess they could go to the meat shed. Did the meat shed burn down? How much of the premises burned?

I don't know that they're going to die. Also, where is Akela? Where's Jen? This is, like, I hope they're using the other parts of the property. This is the very, very, very important, speaking of screenshots to be sent each other part of the episode is Yellow Jackets has been intentionally playing kind of fast and loose with how many like they never really show us everyone together.

That's why I called us initially, I just count. To count. I was like, oh, now we know officially how many girls are left. Okay. So they've been sort of intentionally abstract about this with the idea that they could add another crystal or whoever out of the shadows next season if they wanted to.

But at the end of this episode, as Mallory knows, but I'm just reiterating for the listeners, we get a group shot of everyone who just ran out of the house. And then when I rewatched it a second time, and Akila's missing and Jen's missing. And when I rewatched it a second time, you see Akila in the cabin scrambling. So yeah, did Akila just die in the fire?

I doubt that that's how they would take out a character who has been very important, rising in importance this season. Were the actress just not there? I mean, like, it felt, again, these are like the little things in yellow jackets I probably should not get hung up on. But I'm like, why show me a group shot?

You know how obsessive the citizen detectives on the Reddit, on the Yellow Jackets Reddit are. You know they're going to freeze frame that and count every single person. Why would you not have all the people there? I guess, though, the question could be the answer is like, maybe that's why to fuel the theorizing about, like, did these characters? And then Akira's going to show up. And then it's like, yeah. Episode six and I was in the roots of a tree. You guys were spending like an incredibly long time trying to kick the very,

strong wooden door down. I just broke these like feeble glass panes behind me and went out the back. Okay. Sports Corner question. Oh. Mm-hmm. Of all the soccer team players,

would it have been the goalie to kick down the door? The biggest boot. Yeah. Absolutely. I was not surprised I've been stepped up to try there. Biggest boot. Love it. I have no idea what that means.

All right. Needle drop. Oh, wait. Wait. On the firefront. Yes. Misty at Sunshine Honey at Colt H. when she was very reluctant to hand over her phone was like, what if there's a fire?

Love it. Well, also, I mean, we need to talk about, so Nat dies. We need to talk about the various seas that were planted, not just this season, but season one, episode one, when Nat is at the bonfire at the party and she's tripping and she sees Misty. Yes. It's like, this is your death coming for you. Yes.

Many seasons later. I was going to ask you about that in the context of our earlier. conversation about how surprising it is to see Nat go. Like, do you think that that was there as an attention from the beginning and maybe... I don't know if it was an intention from the beginning, but the showrunners were giving interviews between seasons saying that will pay off somehow. So it was on their mind when writing the finale, for sure. And then we have to go back to Nat and Lottie in the sharing shack.

Yes. And like Nat's vision of herself as the handler queen. Quick flash. Yeah. And of course, during the moose sequence in the past, in the 96th time line, that on the plane, the death plane. Yeah. But also, when we talked about that, we were like,

the white stag means, in mythological lore, the white stag means you are the designated ruler. The chosen one. It was all there because it was the encroachment of death, but also the, yeah, the call, the sanctioning. the nighting. Wow. Maybe season two of Yellow Jackets was just actually expertly plotted and paste and everything

was there the whole time. What I love in that, what I loved at the time and I love even more now is in that sharing check scene between Lottie and Nat, when we get the whole Travis flashback, etc., and Nat puts her head on Lottie's lap and we see the shadow of the antler queen on the floor. Yeah. It's a shared shadow for both of them. Absolutely. And even just like from last week to to this week, you know, Nat going from drawing the queen to becoming the queen, like the idea of, you know, thinking of like that bloody honeycomb in the present day and that discussion before Nat and Lottie had their breakthrough.

And Nat started to really like process a lot of what she had been carrying that like when a new queen hatches, we were. return to this quote a lot this season, and it was obviously top of mind this episode. The first thing she does is sting all the other unborn queens to death. I can see why you like them, Nat replied to Lottie. And then Lottie said, it isn't brutal. It's natural. It's simply what has to be done. Otherwise, they starve.

We all do. I think after this episode and, like, knowing that Nat had been raised to that station, there's a part of that, like, honestly, kind of doesn't make sense to me anymore that That would be Nat's response, but also a part of it that actually, like, lands even more potently if, as I think we assume, Nat will at some point reject. And Shauna ascends. It definitely sounds like something Shauna would do. I mean, Shauna is just journaling about her resentment.

Who among us? Normal stuff. Normal stuff. Who among us? Shana would have been, if Twitter had been popping out in the wilderness in 96, the sub-tweeting from Shana would have been absolutely astonishing. When she was like, I thought it was Jackie who made me feel invisible. And I'm like, I thought it was Jackie was the mean girl.

But I think it might be Shana. Oh, man. Something that Lottie says to Nat on her death plane, the plane of existence, as we have dubbed it. in our text to each other. The other plane of existence. It's literally a plane. Get it. Not only it's not evil,

just hungry, let it in. Right. All right. Anything else you want to talk about? Did we do it? What are your biggest questions for next season? Yeah, yeah. Just how many cops

Missy and Walter kill? That's one question. How despondent are you that Matthew Saracusa made it out of season two of yellow jackets. He was the only one I wanted to die. He was my number one, please kill him. I believe the text I said he was,

may he find the business end of a knife? And he did it. It's just fantastic. I mean, what's, I mean, Saracusa fell for Walter's whole thing, but like, will he stay consistent? Will he stay steady?

For Jeff to be like, we solved it. I'm like, Senecki. Yeah. Never once have you called one of these correctly. On the one hand, Jeff feeling confident makes me absolutely certain this will blow up. Just fall apart in devastating fashion basically immediately. On the other hand, it was nice to get the little reminder from Hot Kevin that Saracusa is corrupt by nature and his very heart and soul. You know, when Walter was like, well, my method's not exactly admissible in court.

Kevin was like, you sound like my partner. You know, I would buy Saracusa saying, you know, Walter's just absorbing this and is like, I'm going to use. Life of crime. Sounds sorry to me. By the way, Walter scampering up gloves on to grab Syracusa's gun and shoot already dead Kevin Tan. Incredible. He was like an impish little leprechaun of murder.

It's the limberness of a man who spends a lot of time working on multiple thousand piece puzzles while guzzling milk in silk pajamas. We had so many emails of like trying to justify the milk. So I was like, what if it was a white Russian? I was like, no. It was milk. We've already seen Walter. It's canon that Walter drinks milk.

And he commits culinary crime after culinary crime. We've seen this from him. When he was befouling a breakfast plate, he was doing it. The table full of milk. I had one more thing. I just occurred to me. Callie. Two things on the Cali front.

She's powerful. Yes. So I haven't mentioned it maybe shown the Cali shoots. Hold on. Another first of all before. thing I was just going to say for the first of all. Jeff. Jeff.

Jeff not wanting to tell Callie where the gun is and just staring at the glove box was... And like, don't open that. So funny. Callie shoots Lottie. Now, we had speculated a couple times about whether Callie would kill Saracusa. But Callie pulls that trigger without hesitation. There was... So the two things that I wanted to talk about.

Wait, wait. also, Syracusa, by the way, Kelly, like, takes the safety off the gun behind her back. He's like, I'm going to need to see... Honorable click! Yeah, he's going to see... I'm going to see both hands. And then he's like, hold that thought, turns his back on her to answer his phone.

You know who's really too dumb to live, Saracusa? Why are you still alive? I'm offended. Oh, boy. I thought you were going to say Callie should have shot him dead. Well, I was hoping she went. Like, get in the pit, Mari, and get dead. Dead Saracusa.

Mori live too. Yeah, hashtag Mori lives. I cannot believe Ben, Mori, Walter, Saracusa all lived. Now, Walter, I'm thrilled, live, but I just am astounded those characters made it out of the season.

And that and Nugget. And Nugget didn't make it. And we still don't know about Steve. All right. My goodness. So, Shalada watching Callie. Yes. There seemed to be,

there's the Lottie part of it and then the Shawna part of it. there seemed to be in Shawna a like tangible recognition of the darkness and the power. We've talked a lot about how when we debate is the supernatural, is it not? Ultimately like wherever the show nets out, but the really appealing and interesting thing is what that darkness does when the characters touch it, right? How when they feel that they are they are communing with that power, they like it, right? and how that's like the most honest thing the show gives us. And so for Callie to be feeling that in a really fucked up situation,

and for Shawna, I think just clearly recognize something in herself and her daughter. They're on the heels of last week's conversation between Callie and Jeff. Am I like mom, right? That was really interesting. Then there's a loty part of it where... Callie's staring at Lottie and Lottie staring at Callie. Is this your daughter? She's so powerful.

A tilt of the head. A Harry Lolley. Boyden Doctor Who asked tilt of the head. The Islander starts running sideways at that point. It made me think back to the Lottie, you're going to change everything line. When she first said, is this your daughter? I was like, I thought, you know,

because she's not mentally well in the moment, I thought maybe she was, like, confused and thought, you know. I thought that there was like an aspect of Lottie's thinking, especially because of Lottie's, like, insistence that, you know, the Battlestar. all of this has happened before, all of this will happen again. You're going to change everything. Like, oh, did I misinterpret?

Prophecies are tricky. Whatever I had sensed or seen before and it's actually about Callie. Not that would happen when the baby didn't change them. It's actually never long got on that was supposed to do it. Interesting. Yeah, Shauna's firstborn child, technically, right? On the Queen, the Bloody High front. Yeah.

And the Queen front. I did think it was really interesting when Nat was prepping the Queen of Heart card to make it look like their old Queen of Heart card she burned the other queens. Like she didn't have to burn the other queen cards

but she did. Oh, I'm glad you mentioned the cards. Excellent point. I just have a note for the group. In addition to I would simply not agree to participate in the ritual in the first place. I would not sign up to be hunted by my fellow.

But if you did, you can't discard the cards you pulled because then everybody, I understand like, Well, I don't think they usually did. I think this was just what they did here. But why? Because it looks cool when they went in the fire. But it actually negated. This drove me crazy. So Van says, I'll go first. And everyone's like, oh, but also the bravery. It's like, no, if you guys are getting rid of the cards after you pull them going first, it's the best place to go.

Because you have the like. She would win survivor. Come on. What's everyone doing here? Couldn't believe it. Well, and it also seemed when they were like, again, that's, like, as you say, get little, like, crumbs of what the ritual is. Yes. Again made it seem like they don't go again in the past. If every, if they go through the whole draw and no one draws the queen, they don't keep going until the deck is fully pulled. There were, I, so crumbs is a great way to put it. Like, Sean, that's up to you. The way we used to, you could submit or you can run. Like, who's going to submit? Who's going to run? Like, that was all, that was all really interesting. Oh, the line about Nat, you were always its favorite.

Yeah. That was fascinating. Oh, one last thing I want to say about Nat's crowning coordination. Oh, yeah. When you think of everybody's response? Well, I was going to single out Travis because what Travis does is he lays her hand on him the way that Lottie laid her hand on him. And we get Lottie doing that to. to Nat in the other plan of existence.

I actually, I thought that was like really moving. Yeah. And very sad. It was so interesting to track all of the different responses. Even before Lottie, you know, says that the wilderness chose it's Nat, who leans for like, tie leaning forward, Misty standing up. Shana like, I know they're ready. I know you're all about to say my name, right? Right? I was sure it would be me. I mean, listen, on the Shauna front,

she's not wholly wrong because, like, someone else could learn how to butcher. Like, why is Shauna the only one who has to cut people up? And if she is, I think she does deserve to lead because she has the shittiest job. Shittier than the poop bucket job, honestly. I mean, it's gone horribly wrong

for people on poop bucket duty before. So that's still, though I guess. Oh, question for season three, we find Crystal's body. It's a great. Did Aquila go out the back? Did Aquila and Jen go out the back door? And they're living in another one of the little tree hollow war and things. I still, they have to assume it's not long before we find out that every symbol tree is an entrance, right? It has to be. Has to happen at some point. It has to be. All right. I want to talk about the Killing Moon, which is one of my favorite songs of all time by the, like literally one of my favorite, like literally one of my top most played songs of all time.

It was deployed wonderfully in this episode. First we hear it is the cover, the new Velvague, and they cover a lot of 80s songs, and that's really fun. And it's, you know, female voices. And then we get the original version, Echo and the Bunny Man, closing it out. I got to ask, Lost Corner, how did you feel about the pan up from the burning cabin to the cloud of ominous smoke blotting out the stars in the sky?

I always love anything that makes me think of Smokey of our beloved smoke monster. I was like waiting, I don't know, it just felt like we were about to have some sort of zoom in to some like confirmation of something or like... It was like a weird way... Here's a pan to a statue.

It was also like a weird moment in the song to... Like it didn't feel like that is... Give yourself to... That's a song that crescendos and crescendos and the fact that they sort of ended it on like a, almost like a murmur was really interesting to me. Yellow Jackets, we had a time. What's your needle drop of the episode, though? Is it?

Echondyman? Is it? Radiohead? Is it? Buffy St. Marie? Yeah, I like the God is Live magic as a foot. That was like, it was a super cool, weird song. Really intense and great.

Really matching Lottie's energy in her golden velvet robe thing. Boy, some great. You got a robe just like that, right? A golden velvet robe. I wish. Yeah. I love a robe. I love a robe.

Some great fits on Lottie this season. I also have to, you know, while we're in Drip a corner here, got to call out the kicks, the altar. Brog out. He broke out camo sneakers to head on his mission. It's iconic. We get a shot of those first before we get. Did you know it was him? Yeah.

Absolutely. The second that he stepped foot because we have seen, of course, you know, you provided some insights on the calf muscle. featuring in the early introduction. But he was wearing like similar sneakers or like a charcoal gray at that point. But the just overall style of the of the shoes, like these are these are Walter's shoes. I thought it was Walter and I was really scared that Misty was going to shoot him. The rifle was like right there. Checkoff's rifle.

I mean, you were right to fear that because mere moments later, Misty accidentally murdered another person that she deeply loves. Checkup syringe. That was a. Because she dropped that on the check-in, right? That was part of the stuff that she dropped in the basket when she checked in. And in fact, we were trying to, as you'll recall,

we were trying to see what exactly was on the label. But also, now, Misty had previously used a syringe to insert lethal toxins into the cigarette that she knew Jessica Robbins, Roberts would smoke. So this was a known associated method of murder for Misty, who's killed. list is astonishingly long at this point. But in your musical number that you loved so much, that was a featured aspect of the animation, was just the syringe moving in front of Misty.

It was a callback, but it was also a harbinger of despair to come. When, man, Nat, I'm going to miss Nat. It's sad. When Nat went to Lisa and said, go have a life, you don't have to be one of these people, which is the pitch that Ben made to Nat back in the wilderness, right? That Nat didn't heed. While Lisa was, like, in the midst of purple dyeing duty, she was drip dyeing some socks. Do you think that's, I was curious, like, is that Lisa's personal wardrobe? Do you dye your own guard? Or was that, like, on behalf of the commune? Yes, D-Y-O-G, die your own garb.

All right. Love it. Anything else? I don't think so. I want to know if Steve is okay. I hope that's clarified for us at some point. It was great to watch season two of Yellow Jackets and Pot about it with you. I had an absolute blast.

I remain incredibly fond of you, very fond of Yellow Jackets, very fond of sectional sofas. And, you know, Joe, it's called a narrative. Just try to yes end a little. Walter and Icon start to finish. Hashton Walter lives. I cannot believe I am so lucky to be in a reality where that is true. Will Mallory and I be back for season three of Yellow Jackets? Who's to say?

Because who knows when we're getting that? Right. There is a writer's strike, so we do not know when season three of Yellow Jackets is coming at all. But you can find us over on the Ringerverse. You heard Mallory Flex, her Doctor Who knowledge. You've got some Doctor Who rewatch going on. We watch episodes going on, our hype meter, et cetera, et cetera. So if you, you know, if you just met us here on the Yellow Jacket pod, we talk every week all the time for hours.

Hours. Hours. The person who knows that the most is in this room with us, and it is. Steve Allman, who is doing some production work on this episode. And also our beloved Carlos Scherbogo, who's done every one of our Yellow Jackets episode is not with us here in Sweden. He will be in Sweden later this year. But he also worked on this episode and had to cut out many, many, many, many hotel-based hijinks, etc. All right.

So we will see you in the wilderness. Sunday soon. Bye.