The Prestige TV Podcast - ‘Yellowjackets’ Season 2 Primer

Episode Date: March 20, 2023

Joanna and Mallory are back in anticipation of Season 2 of Showtime’s ‘Yellowjackets.’ First, they break down everything that happened in Season 1 (10:20). Then, they look ahead to the new season by discussing the show's biggest remaining mysteries and theories (44:07). Hosts: Joanna Robinson and Mallory Rubin Associate Producer: Carlos Chiriboga Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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about the four men who broke the color barrier in football. I'm your host, Chelsea Stark Jones. BlackBald is dropping soon on the Ringer NFL feed. Do you prefer podcast or showtips? Why do you buy two? Oh, I always get two of things. That way I'll have some to share. Like candy bars and sandwiches, New York style pretzels,

calzone to the stromboli place. There's raspberry lemonade from Michaels and weird. Hello, welcome back into the Prestige TV podcast feed. I'm Joanna Robinson. Joining me today wearing what can only be described as a fetching the primal antler crown. It is my co-host, Mallory. Rubin. Hi, Mallory. How are you doing? Buzz, buzz, Buzz. Joe, I'm hyped. I'm hyped to be here with you to talk about yellow jackets, to talk about brain dead bears and put some shrooms in our soup and everything else. We have a lot to discuss. We are on the yellow jackets beat this season on the press at you TV podcast. We get to do it. We did a couple episodes for season one, but we get to do or you and I did at least one, right? And Bill and I did another. I think that's how that went. But we're going to do a week. to week coverage of season two.

We are so excited for this. Our episodes are going to drop on Friday, like in the wee small hours of the morning, which is when the online drop of the episode happened. So if you watch online, that is, we will be there. We hear for you. We will be there for you on Fridays.

If you watch on Sundays, which is when it drops on, on like on the old TV, we will have already been there waiting for you on the feed. There's a lot going on. right now, of course, in television and prestige television, because also on Sunday nights will be an HBO series called Succession, and we will have episodes covering succession. Those will drop on Sunday nights. Barry is coming back. There will be, you know, Sean Fantasy. We continue his excellent coverage of Barry on this feed. There's a Daisy Jones on the sixth episode waiting for you with Juliet and Bill. So there's a lot going on. A lot to come.

Mallory, how can folks keep on top of all this great television coverage? First thing I'd recommend is follow the pod. Follow the prestige TV podcast on Spotify or wherever you get your podcast. Follow the ringers myriad social channels. That's a great way to know when a new episode is up. What's cooking? What's exciting people? You can track it there.

And for Yellowjackets theories, but really for anything, send the emails. The inbox, it's active, it's cooking, it's still Hobbits and Dragons at gmail.com. Could it be cannibals and converse at gmail.com for this run? Sure, but we're not changing it. So you know where to find us. Send us the theories every week. Part of the reason that we're so excited to talk about the show every week in addition to the fact that we love it and are really excited to discuss it actively throughout the new season,

it's because there's always so much active conversation about what exactly is happening. So we're going to be on Theory Corner every week. We're going to be on Cannibal Corner every week. Joe will be on Wigwatch Corner every week. So many corners. Send us your thoughts. As you know, I love a theory. I will jam a Theory Corner into any show,

but this is like the corneriest of theories is what's going on here. So let me talk about a spoiler warning. Because Mal and I want to play the Theory game for Yellow Jackets, we are not watching ahead on the show. Do we have some screeners sitting on our inbox tantalizing us? Yes. we have not even watched episode one of season two yet. Our restraint, Mallory, just like so impressive.

We are here today to discuss season one. So we don't know what's coming in season two other than like what's been announced in interviews and the trades and stuff like that. We have not watched ahead. We will not be watching ahead. We will be theorizing with all of you, which means sometimes we'll get things wrong. And that's just something we're going to have to live with. This show, Yellow Jackets. I mean, I've actually heard from a lot of people.

a lot of our listeners that they binged it for the first time, hearing that we were going to cover it. They binge yellow jackets over the last couple weeks. What a joyful experience you must have had with that. But let's say you're listening to this podcast episode deciding whether or not you even want to watch in the first place. Unusual decision, but I'm here for you. This show is created by Ashley Lyle of Bart Nickerson and Jonathan Liscoe, who do they refer to themselves as JAB or Jab? Or is that a Malloryism?

I saw this pop up revisiting some postseason one finale interviews. And my understanding is that this is the shorthand in the writer's room and among the show team to refer to them. Is it, is it JAB or is it Jab? I don't know. That's a great question. Let's go with JAB like JMO. All right. So this is the creative team.

The log line for yellow jackets. And I think it's something we forget often is the series chronicles there, these girls who crash landed. their descent from a complicated but thriving team to warring cannibalistic clans. So that means everyone could be a cannibal. We don't know what it's going to cause the war, but it might not be a vegetarianism versus carnivar split. It just might be like, we prefer our meat, our human meat, medium rare. We prefer it well done.

Never the twain shall meet, something like that. You know what I mean? Can't make to find out, yeah. J.B. have planned for five seasons of the show. It was such a smash sort of unanticipated hit for Showtime. They renewed season two and season three at the same time. The show was nominated for seven Emmys, including Best Drama and Acting Nominations for

Christina Ritchie and Melanie Linsky. And we're just going to take a brief second to talk about some new cast members they've added this season for season two, Simone Kessel and Lauren Ambrose. Lauren Ambrose, I am quite familiar with Simone Kessel. slightly less so. Anything you want to say about those additions to the cast, Mallory Rubin? Thrilled to be meeting more of the survivors

in the 2021 timeline. This is a big part of the... It was right there, at least with Lottie, less so with Van at the end of season one in terms of discussing what might be to come, but because we got that tantalizing cult, carrot at the end of the season one finale and the voicemail to Nat about

who the fuck is, Lottie Matthews, like knowing that we were driving toward adult Lottie was right there from the end of season one. And then obviously with the subsequent casting news about adult fan, this is just a very exciting thing to know that we're going to be meeting not only these two characters as adults in the 2021 timeline, but that larger looming open question of who else might have made it and who else might have survived and who else might we meet. And one of the things that I recall you bringing up actually back in our season one finale podjo was let's not just think about this as 1996 and 2020. or the occasional moments, like in the first misty flashback to the painful youth phone call in 1992. We have all this time in between. And so there's a lot of room to play in those 25 years after the 19 months in the wilderness ends. And so just in general, that's one of the things I'm looking forward to most about season two and beyond,

is like filling in those gaps. What was life like for those who made it back? And how has that changed over the years? I don't think this is a fixed show where people, make one decision and they stay that way forever. They align with one person and it never breaks. This is going to be like a season of Survivor, right? Everyone's got multiple final threes and what suits you at a given moment or where do the necessities of the moment lead you? So I'm hyped to, I'm hyped to meet our additional 2021 figures and see who else we meet

across the course of the year. Who knows? It was funny. I was watching the finale this morning of season one as I finished my rewatch. And we were talking about this just before we hit record, but, like, Jackie is careening towards her death by just, like, not shutting up in the finale. And as I was watching it, and I had, like, I heard a Mallory voice in my head being like, she'd be absolutely crap at Survivor. Like, Jackie is such so bad at Survivor. No useful skills for her tribe and her politics game is bad as well. Um, also, yeah. So yeah, at the merge for sure. Yeah. So Simone Kessel and Lauren Ambrose, as you said, are playing adult lottie and adult van so two more survivors to the mix elijah wood is here not as like a

serious regular but a guest star rotation thrilling delightful uh jason ridder melanie linsky's husband is is i think just in one episode but that's exciting to me because i'm a huge jason ridder fan and then um speaking of like expanding or contracting nia sundoya has been recast for the a kilo who's like one of the survivors who had sort of like a meat medium role in the in the first season. So there's like characters like Akila or Mari, some other girls who are there who might have their roles expanded this season. We might learn more about them, et cetera.

So I'm excited to see how all of that goes. They've also released the episode titles. We don't need to get into that too much right now, but they did in a really fun way with like a stacked VHS. You know, they're just like, they're having fun. They're having a great time. It's the 90s, you know? So let's do our season one. we're going to do a season one breakdown, some questions that have been answered,

some questions that we hope will be answered in season two, and then just like a little lightning round, roundup of some urgent questions we want to answer amongst ourselves about our rewatch. So let's start with when are we? As you just mentioned, the crash happens in 96. We meet our survivors, adult survivors, 25 years later in 2021. they spent 19 of those months in the woods.

Yes. After they crashed in 1996. Yeah. It's a long time. 19 months in what we think are like the Canadian. They were going from the East Coast to Seattle. We think it took them up to rerout because the weather head north of the storm. Yeah.

What do you feel about this like monthwise? Where are we? How do you feel about the timeline? What's going on there, Mallory? So we know we have a few signposts that tell us how much time has passed broadly, generally. Obviously, the most germane one out in the wilderness is Shawna's pregnancy. And we can see from where Shauna's, how far Shauna's pregnancy has advanced to the finale that multiple months have passed. We have some other key timeline indicators.

You know, we hear Jackie talking at one point about how they be at rush rush. week in Rutgers, obviously winter. Winter is coming. Arrives. So we can tell that we have made it a handful of months. Or is it four months? Is it five months? Is it three months heading into four months? Something like that, right? Three to five, four to five. From late spring into fall, that is clear based on a number of timeline indicators. The one thing that remains absolutely baffling about this is that soccer, high school soccer is a false sport. So I just don't know what to do about that. I don't know what to do about the fact that the yellow jackets are making their, are winning states, making their run to nationals in the spring. Of course, the, the baseball team,

our guy's jacket, iconic reworking of the local signage. It makes sense that the baseball team would be playing in the spring. Why is the soccer team playing in the spring? I couldn't tell you. If somebody has an insight into New Jersey spring soccer at the formal high school level, let us know. Other than that, I think the timeline is pretty clear. The flight takes off in spring and we go into early fall. With love and respect, Yellow Jackets, a show I adore. There are some things they do that are just sort of like tight like a drum, just like perfectly executed. And there's some things they do like, wise Allie at the high school reunion for not her class or where did her accent come from, you know.

I like that because I like the idea of her just insisting on being a part of this thing that she missed the way she, the way she says, uh, trauma bond. Ala, trauma bonds. She can't miss out on this horrific thing that everybody else went through. And so she's inserted herself as chair of a class that she was definitely not a part of. Great stuff for Mali. Yeah. One of the reasons among many that Mallory and I love this show.

is that it has a lot in common with the show we both love and adore lost, a plane crash. Oh, Carlos is chiming in. Our producer Carlos is chiming in on Zoom chat to say that soccer was a spring sport where he grew up in Florida. Okay, maybe this is completely fine.

It was definitely a fall sport where I grew up. It's a false sport where we all live now. But, hey, if there are pockets of the country where this is not true, great, great. But how would that impact nationals? I have questions about that. Anyway. Exactly.

Because if it was a club soccer season, that wouldn't be an issue at all. But the idea of it being exactly, Joanna. Exactly. Nationals. Anyway, I don't think there's a stronger conspiracy at play there. The Lost comparison and a TV show that Mallory Love Survivor, lost was, of course, also inspired by Survivor. But the jumps in time and the way that like flashbacks and sort of

flash forwards, help us understand the decisions that characters are making in the woods. And the first couple episodes followed like a close loss comparison where we're getting like episode one is a Shawna episode, episode two is a Misty episode, episode three is a Tice episode, episode episode four is a Nat episode. Then it gets a little muddier. And I would say like we've seen like a scene of young Lottie right in the car with their parents or at the beginning when Van is trying to get out of town, like, she has to wake her mom up with a, you know, like, we get some band stuff as well. But I would say there's definitely more territory to mine with flashbacks with some of those

other characters. Something I didn't follow that closely was that Van was not supposed to survive season one, and they just loved the character's performance so much. And that's why, like, Van survives a fire at a band and attack. Like, you're just sort of like, how many lives does this young woman have? And it's just that the actress is so great, but they're like, hey, not only do you survive, you're going to get an adult counterpart

and we're going to explore all of that. So I'm excited. Listen, a lot of trauma to work through for the survivors of the Yellow Jackets, State Championship plane crash. Yes, but also, hopefully, a lot of thriving and vibrant careers as surgeons and plastic surgeons for everybody who helps stitch up, Van.

Amazing work. Really incredible work. Lauren Ambrose's adult van has, like, a little bit of scarring on her as like, in promo photos that I've seen, but like, I mean, that was incredible, incredible job. I believe that was Akila who did that. Okay, so people we know, let's do some survivor math, people we know who made it out of the woods. Shauna, Nat, Misty, Taisa, Corphe, that's easy, right?

Core for. Van and Lottie. Yes. Travis. Correct. Anyone else? That is all that we definitively know. No.

Yeah. And frankly, we only definitively know about Van from the casting and the runoff to season two. From season one, we didn't even know that. We just knew the core four based on the nugget at the end of the finale, Ladi. And then, of course, Travis, because his 2021 timeline death is such a central part of season one. But everyone else is a mystery. Up in the air, Mari, Akila, and Javi. Any, like, instincts on those three.

Are we going to see any of those in the modern? timeline. So one of the things I love about the show is that you can reply to something with utter conviction and then immediately talk yourself out of it. So like, what I was about to say, I feel that Javi must be dead. Because when everything was happening with Travis, with the question of whether he had killed himself or was murdered, the reveal about his bank account and being empty a day after he had died, and Nat and co are looking into this trying to to figure out that. It just feels like someone at some point would have mentioned, hey, let's check in with Javi if Javi had made it out. But then right away, the other part of your brain kicks in and says, well, we don't know where Javi is at the end of the season one finale, right?

He's gone missing. So perhaps they just never find him again and never know where he is or perhaps he enters the story. And then it's estranged because, again, Van never comes up as being around in 2021. So I think we have to assume that a lot of these characters have fallen out of touch. And of course, that's how we meet them, this idea that they're not speaking, using burner phones to talk to each other. It's a secret when they're in touch. So there's this really, like, rich vein to continue to tap there in terms of what level of interaction the characters have actually had. And it would be very believable that we would assume somebody was completely absent. And maybe they've been there the whole time. So Hobby is an interesting one on that front.

I think they did, on the rewatch, like, the language that they used. was so brilliantly vague of like the others. You know, like they just sort of like left it open how many other survivors there might be. A lot of room to play. A lot of room to play. Javi is somewhat like,

because Travis exits this horrific thing that happened to them and it seems like he and Nat have like joint substance abuse problems through their adulthood. Nat talks about them trying to keep each other sort of even and stuff like that. I could see either Javi has died and Travis is carrying that.

I mean, he's plenty of other trauma to carry, but like that he's carrying that trauma. Or Javi is all in on Lottie's cult. And that's another loss, you know, that Travis is not talking to him because Javi's in the cult. And then would Javi be able to easily drain Travis's bank account, you know, because he's the next of kin or something like that. And if Javi and Travis had had a real falling out or parting of the ways, Nat would certainly know that, which would then explain her not reaching out.

And again, Travis is living under an assumed name and secret doesn't want to be found. So maybe that extends to his own brother if he did make it out. A lot of possibilities here. I think in general, the only thing that I'll say about the math, the survivor math, is that on the one hand, I agree there are a lot of possibilities and they've done a really great job of leaving open so many different outcomes that would completely work. They wouldn't have to twist themselves into any kind of logic pretzel to sell us on any number of things. The only thing is that there is a real cap on the math.

Only so many people were on the plane. Five, we have five gravesites right away, right? We've got the two pilots, flight attendant, coach Bill Martinez, and one of the JV who had been called up to the team. And then, of course, we lose Laura Lee. We lose Jackie. the pick girl is our character who brings us into this world who is pick girl

is something we'll obviously talk about. So, you know, there's a moment around the gravesites early in season one when they're going through the burial ritual and you can count 18 people standing around that circle. Is that everybody? I don't think we can say that with complete confidence.

There are certainly other seismic essential moments that you'd think everyone would be standing around for and they're just definitely not. So maybe a couple of other people are off somewhere. But there's not that many. They need to kill people and eat people unless they're going to meet an entirely different group of people.

Like, does this show have an equivalent of the others from Lost Joe, which would expand the math of who they could eat while still having a good number of people that get back? I can't wait for them to find bunkers in this Canadian wilderness. We're rolling out, you know? Got to stay warm somehow when the snow hits. We also want to do some quick cult math and just say that it's hard to know what we know, and that's intentional. But at the end of the season, Lottie is revealed as sort of the Antler Queen as she was called. We see her sort of bowing in the snow with a bare heart in her massive bear heart, putting it down the snow, speaking French, and then, you know, translating into English and talking about letting the darkness, etc.

Misty and Van. You're free, Joe. Let the darkness say you free. That's what I say every morning, but, you know, but without the bear heart. So Misty and Van are there. And it's so easy to see why both of those women are there, right? Misty is like a joiner and a follower in general. And then Van has had this harrowing thing happen to her twice and is ready to believe. So those three are the beginning of something.

And Misty is also the one face we see in the cannibal, in the flash, forward. Everybody is wearing some sort of face covering or fur. Yeah. And Misty's the one, she pulls the face covering off. We see her. It is Misty. She is there as a part of that sequence. So that's a lock. I think the other thing with Misty that makes that like completely clear, easy to believe is that this is a character who, in addition to, I think, that idea of being a joiner, wants them to be to stay there, doesn't want them to be found. You know, Misty destroys the the black box from the plane very early in the season. And this is a place where Misty is able to be a person who has looked to and relied upon.

Obviously, that becomes a very complex and tangled thing as does every relationship over the course of the first season. But she is not looking to leave. She is not looking to go back to what life was before. And so falling into this creation of a new society, of course, Misty would be first in line for that. there's question marks around the other three in the core four, right? Tysa, as we find out by the end of the season, at least knows how to create an altar.

I still don't want to talk about this. So awful. RIP Biscuit, the family dog, but Tisa has created an altar that looks like maybe she learned that while perhaps in a wilderness cults or maybe she just observed it. Well, and the symbol is there.

The symbol is there. drawn on the wall. I like this a lot because Ty is, I'd say, the most actively opposed to the idea of the supernatural, the idea of forming some sort of cult that believes in the magic of the wilderness in the 1996 timeline.

And so either tracking that change in her relationship to this idea of the possibility of the supernatural, or the idea that because she has this like sleepwalking other self, that both of these parts of her could have made a completely different choice about what they believed in is kind of a fascinating thing too.

So, yeah, I think we have Ty, like, connected to the cult in some way in 2021. I'd say firmly opposed in 96, and that's an interesting one. Right, but has, but is given an ultimatum to a certain degree by Van. So has this, like, personal connection to someone who is all in.

So you could see a way in which Ty would pull her in. It becomes part of the cults. I mean, that's what I'm calling it. the cult out of loyalty to or connection to or desperation to hold on to van. Shawna, the only reason I'm putting Shauna in this like maybe camp is because when she is cutting up Adam RIP, and that's like, do you remember how to do all this? And she said, yeah, it's just like riding a really disgusting bike or whatever it is.

She says, now maybe she's talking about like all the woodland animals that she dismembered or something like that. but it seems to me that Shauna has experience cutting up a human. Does that mean she was in Lottie's camp? We don't know because the log line of the show is rival cannibalistic clans, right? So maybe Shauna was the head of her own cannibalistic clan. This is the idea that I like a lot. Because, like, first of all, yeah, I think it could just be as simple as Shana's the best with the knife. Shauna's always the one who slits the throat of the animal to bleed it out.

This is like a really gross show. That I love. But it's really... Yeah. Couldn't wait to to kill the rabbit in her own garden and make a meaty pot

of chili. But there's that scene where she's trying to convince Jackie to participate more. Again, like a very survivor-esque. You're going to get voted out

because you're not helping... She's like, I can't help you. Yeah. I can't help you. Just go get firewood. Go fill people's water bottles. Do something, right?

Do something. And that like really gnarly. You know, here's how you like pop the ligament. them in and work the joint. And she just knows how to, how to dismember a creature. But yeah, like, I, I think that that boring cannibalistic clan's idea from the log line that you shared earlier. And the creators have all been really forthright about the idea. And I think this is

fascinating. And one of the things that's most intriguing about where the show goes from here, that cannibalism shouldn't be like the top line, bold font, most alarming or most interesting thing we're working toward. It's this bi-pronging. of the dissent, right? And the dissent into what? It's not just hunger and desperation. It's the way that their society functions and the choices that they're willing to make.

So how many factions will we have? And are all of them killing and eating each other at a certain point? Maybe. Or, yeah, yes. And I think that what I love about the Nat wild card, because Nat is sort of like the last member of the Corps for that we haven't decided how to sort her.

She has this interesting line when they're talking about Travis and the fact that they found the symbol in wax candle form underneath his body. And she says he never believed in any of that is what she says to Misty. And so Travis definitely not a lot of follower. Like that we know for certain. And it reminds me of the last of us like when Joel is talking. about his riff with Tommy. Like, that's, I think, why I'm thinking about, like, Travis and Javi in that, in that

regards. Like, they, they went different ways with, like, their belief system. But, um, but Nat, I like the idea that perhaps Nat was never a part of it when she was younger, but the season one ends with her being cult-napped. Right. And she's in an extremely vulnerable position. She was just about to commit suicide. She has been vulnerable her entire adult life, like in and out of rehab, et cetera, et cetera.

Is she someone who would be vulnerable to coercion to joining Lottie's cause now in 2021 in a way that perhaps she was resistant to in 96? Yeah. Very interesting. And again, I like that idea that nothing is fixed, that these relationships can change across this really wide swath of time. And maybe many times in between, like even with Shauna, she. Shauna and Lottie are both a part of this shroom-induced hallucinogenic pursuit of Travis, this really horrific sequence in the finale. And so you could see a path to alignment there, but also Shauna is so, oh, I don't remember.

You know, is so appalled when she wakes up the next day that, like, distancing herself from Ladi in that group seems like the logical next step. The other thing was Shana, I have a, we'll talk about Jeff a few times. today. But the idea that Jeff read the journals and knows everything that happened, I think that there is a way that he reads that she ate people to stay alive and is like, I wish you would talk to me about this. And there's a part where he reads, I believe that there is a spirit of a dead hunter in the wilderness and somebody has left mysterious symbols that point to a supernatural presence that wouldn't let us leave the island, excuse me, the wilderness. And he says, I have some follow-up questions.

Like, I think if there's that supernatural element that would be present in Lottie's Colt written throughout her journals, Jeff just might ask a follow-up or two, but I don't know. He's Jeff. So maybe not. Jeff's kind of a simple guy in some regards. I love Jeff, honestly. Yeah.

Jeff just wants to role play a fucking while buying furniture, you know? You know, if he wants to blend sex and capitalism, that's his business. You know, what happens in your bedroom stays in your bedroom. I want to talk a little briefly about the power in yellow jackets, because this to me is the most interesting thing about, especially underlined in season one, that economy of what does power mean in the real world back in civilization and what does it mean in the woods?

And that you already mentioned this idea that like misty survivalist skills that she gets from taking the Red Cross babysitter's course twice makes her useful for the first time in her life. And as you say, that falls apart after you poison someone a couple times. Just a couple times, you know, but like the trust in her falls apart there. But Jackie is the most interesting case because when we, on rewatch, when you, in the first episode, Coach Bill talks about why he put her in charge of captain of the team. It's like, it's not that you're the best, blah, blah, blah.

He's like, you just have this jeunise qua that people listen to you. Basically, you're popular. You're popular and you have power. through your hotness and your popularity. And this is what makes you a good leader in this situation. And we see two moments pre-playing crash where Jackie has the opportunity to lead. And one is when future New Jersey accent have her alley gets her leg broken. And Jackie is completely useless in that scenario.

She's just standing on the sidelines doing nothing. Shauna is actually the one kind of like taking the most control there, right? And then there's the infighting at the party where Jackie makes them like talk to each other and tell each other what they like about each other. And that actually kind of works. Like that her leadership there kind of works. So there is some truth to the power of her leadership ability in like a high school party scenario. But what I love is that this idea that coach Bill who is an adult man who dies right away in the plane crash is the one determining Jackie's worth here. he's like, you are the hot popular girl, therefore you have power and deserve to be leader and blah, blah, this is power literally conferred upon her by, sorry, to use this word, the patriarchy, right?

And the whole point of a bunch of women and Ben and Travis and Javi landing in the wilderness is what happens when the patriarchy is no longer deciding what is most important, what has the most value, what has leadership. I really love this quote from one of the three showrunners, Jonathan Liscoe, who says, there, the survivors, they're haunted by their guilt, their anger and their pain. But you know what else haunts them, whether they're ready to admit it, is the fact that they've never felt in some ways more alive than when they were in the wilderness. Maybe they went crazy. But it is also a world free of the stereotypes and expectations that society had thrust upon them specifically as young women. There was a freedom in that kind of madness. So they want to get in touch with their primordial selves.

So that's related to power and what society has decided gives women power and what they discover in the woods gives them power. Is it being the best at butchering something? Is it, you know, being able to cook things? Is it be able to sew up someone's face? Or is it being off your meds and, you know, looking really good in an antler crown? So what do you think about this exploration of power? here in the forest, Mallory. Yeah, you know, this is not only peak loss, this is,

and we spent a lot of our season one finale pod chatting about this, this is quintessential Lord of the Flies. You remove the traditional social norms and relationships that define interaction in mainstream societies, societies with not only laws and rules, but like understandings. and what do you do and how do you behave and how do you look at yourself and other people?

So one of the most savage, biting moments in the entire show and there are a lot of them is in the fight that Shauna and Jackie have in the finale that leads to Jackie's stubborn death when Shauna says to her like, high school is the best your life was ever going to be. And it's not like she had never thought that before.

You understand in that moment that that was something that had been in the back of Shauna's mind, that these were truths that they had kind of always been carrying around and only because of this circumstance and this context said to each other. But like what good does being popular do you out in a world like this one? It's irrelevant. Like asking people to stand around and tell them nice things about each other in the context of high school, in the context of a party, in the context of a team. sure, you want people to be like encouraged and positive.

Out here, you need to be ready to walk out in front of a bear and stab it in the fucking neck. And Jackie's not willing to do that and thinks the people who are are crazy. So the fact that Shauna and like Jackie even invokes the word sidekick, you know, a character who has been in the shadow of a figure like Jackie and then all the way in the future 25 years later is still having to sit at brunch with Jackie's parents. and hear how inferior she is, the fact that even in the most horrific stretch of her life where every minute of a new horror awaits, she was a more, not only relevant, but suitable person for that moment,

had to feel good. And I'm like, I love the showrunners acknowledging the sick, twisted truth of that. Because, like, that feels like the thing as much as just I need to stay awake, I need to stay warm, I need to stay fed, that gets them to where they're going.

What is it? You don't want to let go of that feeling once you have it. Something I love about the core for as adults is this way in which each one of them has a sort of like vulnerability of their position. Like, you know, Misty, her entire life, awkward, cannot connect with people, is perhaps a sociopath, you know, like steam clams. That's the real character flaw as far as I'm concerned. But like she's an outsider. Pumping drugs into cigarettes. sure, but liking clams.

I'm steamed clams, no. Like, she's an outsider and a loner and has a parrot, and that makes me like, you know, I feel tenderly towards her. You've got

Nat who, again, has, like, been suffering with, like, substance abuse issues. Like, it seems, her entire adult life. You've got Ty who's, like, a queer woman of color trying to run for political office in a place where all those things are being weaponized against her and her past. And then you've got Shauna who is like, you know, a mom who's like, daughter doesn't respect her, who thinks her husband's cheating on her, all this sort of stuff like

that. They all have these like aspects of humanity or womanhood or whatever you want to, however you want to put it, that makes me feel protective of them, that makes them feel vulnerable to me. And then you watch them flex their power at various points within, you know, the modern timeline. You watch them efficiently dispose of a body and clean a crime scene. And you're sort of like, these women are terrifying. But also, I'm still very actively rooting for them. Shawna killed a guy for like nothing for no good reason. But if you ask me who the hero of the show is, I'm like, well, Shauna. Obviously, it's Melanie Linsky.

So I love the show. And Lottie's power, which comes from, we're going to talk about the supernatural element in a second, but it comes from being off her meds. Everyone gets a little high. She has some moments that could be considered clairvoyant. It's hard to say. But Lottie's ascendancy is one of the most fascinating things on a rewatch,

knowing, you know, because they did not center her, but she's always there. And it's interesting to watch her arc. Okay, let's look about mysteries that were solved in season one. Speaking of Jeff. Jeff, is Jeff cheating? No. Trouble at work with the mob, I guess.

It's just, you know, really fucked it up with the lone sharks. I love the Bianca reveal. Like, Bianca terrifies me. Yeah, it's so funny. You love Shauna. Jeff is a character who's really enjoyable on a rewatch. Oh, so great. Yes.

When I'm not like, you motherfucker, you cheat on Melancho. Lily and Ska, I'm like, oh, Jeff, you're really, you're really trying. He wants, he wants to join book club. He wants to go to book club with her. Why not? Can't wait to turn himself in at the end. Yes. He's like, we watch a lot of date line.

We know how this goes. Okay. Who is the bad one, the woman in the tree, the hot bummer, it's Taisa and Biscuit pays the price for all of that. Terrible. So, so deeply upsetting. So, I still say with, with Simone in the, basement going down for the suitcase and the gust of wind. Who crawls in the blood-stained secret passageway?

Nope. Who? It's a no for me. No for me. Who is Adam? According to the showrunners, this is solved. And this is, you know, they seem very much like done and dusted. He is exactly who he said he was.

What are your thoughts and feelings about this, Mallory? Okay. I have a question for you about this. And it's a good faith question, I promise. Do you believe them? And not necessarily about Adam. But, like, I think this is an interesting microcosm into a larger idea about this show became a sensation during its first season in a way that clearly, and I think very charmingly, when you read or listen to interviews with the showrunners, they were not expecting. And they have an immense amount clearly of appreciation for the passion of the fan base.

and also you can feel understandably the way that that is now a present thing for them as they are thinking about the show that they're making. And so there's a part of me when they are talking about Adam. And again, going back to the interviews that they did after the season one finale, there's also a lot of like we're excited to get into the writer's room and talk more about Adam.

Oh, but I'm kind of like, yeah. Yeah, I'm kind of like, what are they supposed to say? Yes, he's hobby? And then just ruin it. You know, like, this wouldn't be the first. time that people making a show had dismissed something that ends up being true. Like, how many times did Andrew Garfield say that he wasn't in? Yeah.

No way home? Sometimes you have to do this. Okay, you know me that I am like so suspicious always of people saying things and always think that creators are lying to us all the time. There is something about JAB where I just do not, like, it seems so guileless. like everything that they were saying just seems so unplotted and unplanned in terms of like their reaction. I feel like that's a like a couple seasons into your mystery box show.

You start you start Linda laughing and queusing your way through like interviews, you know? And I do think that with Adam, just to be clear, the this was really just a dude who was actually genuinely really into Shana. and keeping aside for a second, the ethics and morals of an extramarital affair that they could have been happy with each other and enjoyed each other for a while, but the trauma from her time in the wilderness and her paranoia,

a paranoia that is exponentially amplified by reuniting with the other members of the yellow jackets would lead to stabbing in the heart a guy who kind of made you happy until that moment is like much more tragic, ultimately, than Adam being Havi or Adam being a member of the cult or something like that. I still think that like you look at his back tat. I'm just like, that is a map of the wilderness and no one will talk me out of it. I'm sorry.

They won't. No matter what. Listen, I love theory and conspiracy corner. So if you're sitting on, Adam is still definitely someone and this is going to matter. There are so many cuts that go right from Havi to Adam or Adam to Havie. that it was like, I couldn't ignore it on a rewatch. Again, however, I think that could just be clever misdirection and something that they want us to think

or whatever the case may be. And the tragedy of Shauna just killing this dude is very impactful. I was really on T. This is Havi for a very long time last season because, like, Javi has this little, like, crush on Shana in the wilderness, like, all that sort of stuff. Makes her a little wolf. Yeah.

I mean, listen, if they've decided to change their mind between season and Adam decide, like, they decided they want to make him someone, I embrace it. And I'm ready for the chaos. Speaking of chaos, who is the antler queen is probably solved by the finale. But I'm just saying, like, many people can wear the crown. Like, that could change at any time. You know what I mean? Passing the antler crown the way they share their t-shirts and their converse?

The, yeah, and necklaces. You know what I mean? Like, who knows? Jackie's heart necklace. So, like, we don't see the antler queen. Like, anyway, I'm probably overthinking it. I'm just saying, like, never seen Lottie, like, with antlers on her head at the end of season one. But, yes, I like, you're right.

And this idea that either the mantle could pass or there could be another person who moved into that role, maybe Lottie is overthrown at some point. Exactly. Yeah. Why not? Why not? Snoring, gasping during sleep, feeling fatigue, ask your doctor about Zepbound, ter's appetite. The first and only FDA-approved prescription medicine for moderate-to-severe obstructive sleep apnea, OSA, and adults with obesity.

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Don't take if allergic to it, or if you or someone in your family had medullary thyroid cancer, or if you've had multiple endocrine neoplasia syndrome type 2. Tell your doctor if you get a lump or swelling in your neck. Stop Zepbound and call your doctor if you have severe stomach pain or a serious allergic reaction. Severe side effects may include inflamed pancreas or gallbladder problems. Tell your doctor if you experience vision changes before scheduled procedures with anesthesia. If you're nursing, pregnant, plan to be, or taking birth control pills.

Taking Zepbound with a sulfonel urea or insulin may cause low blood sugar. Side effects include nausea, diarrhea, and vomiting, which can cause dehydration and worsened kidney problems. Talk to your doctor. Call 1-800-545-99 or visit Zepbound.lily.com. All right, season two, season two look ahead. mysteries lingering. Who killed Travis? Where are you with Who Killed Travis now?

So again, the voicemail that Nat gets after she is, I just have to say, coltnapped, iconic Joanna, just amazing Joanna Robinson, vintage phraseology right there, wonderful stuff from you, is getting a call from Susie, her former sponsor who works at a bank, who she has blackmailed into looking. looking into Travis's accounts of what happened here. And that's where we get to who the fuck is Lottie line. So it certainly seems like Lottie and thus the cult is directly involved in emptying

Travis's bank account and thus connected to Travis's death. Does that point to a specific person? Is it actually Lottie herself? Is it Van? Van is still associated with Lottie in the present day. Is it, again, Javi, if he's out there, who knows? I think we're pointing toward the cult right now. I guess in general, one of the questions that I had for you is like, how many answers do you think that we will get and then move on to new questions

versus answers that remain open and our understanding, or questions that remain open and our understanding of what the answer might be evolves over time? Yeah, I think that's a great question. I think the JAB have said, you know, that they do not want to be a show where questions don't get answered. So I think they're going to portion, you know, like, so to look back at this mysteries, who is Adam, is Jeff cheating, who's the bad woman, like, who's the bad one, the woman in the tree, who is the handler queen. Like, we get mostly satisfying answers to all of those questions before the season's over. So I think that they're sort of mathematically portioning out some answers.

And again, that could change. Adam could be someone else. The queen could be someone else, you know, like, we're going to keep our conspiracy crowns on. But, like, but they don't want to leave us so unsatisfied at the end of every season. So I think they're just going to portion things out. And so, like, we might get, we might solve the question of who killed Travis by the end of season two. But there will be other mysteries that have unfolded.

Or that opens up a larger question about Travis's connection to that person or role in the larger story. Yeah. Akila is going to show up, like, at the head of a third faction or something like that. You know what I mean? So something like that. Do you think it's the cold? Do you think it's misty? I think it, I don't want it to be misty. Here's the thing about Misty.

Absolute sociopath. The one, I'll just say. say the one character unequivocally revealed in season one is a murderer. Like even Shauna stabbing Adam as she tries to convince everyone at the end of the season oh like is this murder?

It's not like I came here with a premeditated plan. Misty murdered Jessica. Period. And with, I would say, ease and gladness in her heart. Gilly. Gilee. Her whole theater. All of her theater.

that she does around that, you know, throwing the cigarettes away, like, oh, okay. I'll fish them out. Do you need to get a publicist? Yeah, just, I'm sorry, Christina Ritchie. So great. And Missy worked to get in that car with Nat, pulled the cables out of the Porsche, wanted to make sure that she was on the road with Nat to discover Travis's cabin and then his, here's his work slip. Like, here's who he's getting paid. Had his address before Nat did. So like, here's what I'll say. I do believe, and this is Christina Ritchie's take on the character, I do believe that everything Misty does, she does out of loyalty to these girls, right? I think so too. And that's ultimately more interesting if she is just consistently doing the wrong thing because she thinks it's for the right reason.

So if she's killed Travis, maybe she kills Travis because she thinks Travis is like bad for Nat, you know, or something like, you know what I mean? Like as some sort of protective thing. I don't think Misty is connected to the cults. I don't, you know, I'm happy to be. wrong about that. So a parting of the ways at some point for day one Lottie follower, Misty and present day, Misty. I think so. I mean, I think she probably got kicked out of the cult. I don't know if it's be my guess. Um, uh, Travis is left behind a message telling that she was right. Any thoughts or theories about that? My thought is that Travis did not leave behind this message

and that Misty wrote this on a notepad. Wow. Okay. I love it. It is, uh, it's all block letters. You know what I mean? We're not doing any handwriting analysis on a like rubbed. Anyway, okay, what the fuck is up

with the Lottie's cult in present day? Okay, so when we meet them at the end of season one, we're doing Maharishi matching sweatsuits. Like I saw Wild Wild Country

matching sweatsuits scare me. We've got jewelry. I'm all in. I love Applazer, as you know. I'm sorry. Mallory,

I was supposed to say you were so easily joined a cult, but that's not true. You would so easily, like, form and lead a cult. You are the leader. You are the leader. You are the leader.

We've got necklaces with the symbol. So we've got jewelry. We've got matching sweatsuits. That to me is scary. The Yellow Jackets, creators have called Lottie's organization a well-intentioned wellness group. Unbelievable. So this is like, it's so funny. It's giving what if Paltrow to me.

And I'm, like, very interested to see. like how goopy a lottie is when we when we meet her. There's a promo image. Do you think they're Instagram influencers if they're thinking this much about branding and merch?

There's a great interview and like first look at adult Lottie interview with Simone Castle in Vanity Fair by my friend Case Wickman wrote it. And like, so there's not a ton of spoilers in there. They're mostly talking about the costuming and stuff like that. But the photos of her, she's just like lighting incense.

She's just like, You know, like she definitely, she's like lives at Eselon essentially. Like, you know, this is who she is. Like she's very familiar to the Californians in the room is who Lottie seems to be. And does that also involve murder? We'll find out, you know. You can't, you can't build a wellness empire without draining a few bank accounts. So we'll, we'll see how that all shakes out.

Who left the symbols around the crash site in the first place? Maui, where, what is the origin story? of these symbols that were already carved into the trees, et cetera, when the girls got there? I don't know. I mean, this is one of the central mysteries of one of the things I'm most excited to explore. I think also probably my guess right now

would be one of the last answers that we'll get in the entire series. This is one of the big, overarching, true, like, man in black Jacob level mysteries for the show, right? And does that mean, if it is, in fact, five seasons that we don't find out until, like, the fifth season?

I don't know. The Penalton episode, and they call Alison Janney, and they do an entire, like, that's a loss. Oh, boy. We learned that everybody on the Yellow Jackets 96th soccer team was a candidate, et cetera. Is this something that Dead Hunter guy and his family just, like, sketched into a bunch of trees because they really liked arts and crafts? Maybe they were workshop and some tattoo ideas. It's possible. Is this something that a supernatural.

demon force or energy, if we want to be more charitable, has imprinted on the world, possibly. My guess is that it's going to be something that somebody who had a really unsettling, unmooring experience saw. It was there, and they saw it. And then they assumed that it had been placed there by some supernatural force, and then it spreads and perpetuates and everybody else starts thinking the same thing. Who actually put it there on day one? No idea.

None. Do you have a theory? I can't wait to find out. And in general, Joe, where are you with this supernatural question? Because like... Yeah, yeah. This is a big question. I want it...

I don't... Okay. I do think it's interesting. It's... I do think the idea that these young women lost in the wilderness are susceptible to believe, just the way that Shauna believe that Adam might be, you know, a dark force working against her, are primed to see things. that aren't there.

You know what I mean? But there's just too many things that have happened. Like, Jackie's ghost, that's just Shauna's guilt. Like, I'm willing to accept that is just sort of a manifestation of her guilt in the modern timeline. Fans surviving, I guess we get to chalk that up to the actress's charisma or whatever, but Lottie Killing the Bear, okay. Speaking French, even though allegedly she's not good at French, okay. The whole exorcism, like, seen in the attic was top tier. Something is really going on here.

And, like, that was one, too, where we left the character's perspective for a minute and go outside of the cabin and, like, follow in the wish of wind. The gust of wind. Do you feel like this isn't just in their minds? This is actually around them, but, like. Ties, yeah. So there's Ties Man with No Eyes, which can be traced back to, like, all the way to her grandma. Yeah. Right.

Lottie's, but Lottie's visions. Because like, she keeps saying things. And we get, and we get the flashback all the way back to being in the car with her parents and screaming to avoid a car crash. I'm like, this is, you know, so like, I can't chalk all of this up to her being off her meds. So I feel like there's something supernatural going on. But I do think that they could still get away. At this point, they could still get away with mass hysteria or something like that to explain all of this.

At this point. It's like we talk about Lost and I'm sure I probably talked about this when we recorded about Yel Jackson before but like in the first season of Lost, the creators of Lost, David Lindelof, JJ Abrams is there writing the pilot. They were given this remit by the network. Everything in Season 1 had to be explainable by science. And so they did that for season one. They wanted to make a big genre show ABC was a little nervous about that, right?

So they've got, they were like, you have to be able to explain. black smoke, polar bears, all this shit has to be explainable by science. And they're like, we can do that. And then they were like, and then the show's a huge hit and they're like, guess what?

Supernatural baby. Gods and monsters, you know. And so like there's a possibility that Yellow Jackets was like, maybe they wanted that plausible deniability of reality in the first season. But now that like people are all in, they're like, we're going to go super genre with it.

But I feel like they're already there. Shauna and Jackie have a fucking shared dream. With a, like, hunter guy who is calling Jackie into another plane of existence, and we have this recurring idea of, like, the island, I keep saying the island because I lost. I'm praying literally just, I can't help it. The wilderness doesn't want them to leave, like with the bumblebee, with the plane, that idea that it doesn't want them to leave. With Lottie's visions, like, there's a level of, okay, we won't be hungry for long,

could just be like, yeah, a thing you said, but the specificity of, like, the bloody river, or the flare gun. They're such a direct mapping on. Or the deer with the shedding antlers. Right. And then like the rotten, the rancid, disease deer. Magid infested meat.

But like I love what you just, the point you made about the loss, like everything has to have an explanation. Season one idea because they, Yellow Jackets incorporates that into the text. Like Ty says that. She says that when, when they're arguing, like,

there's an explanation for everything that has happened so far. And so like I like the idea that they've given they've given the cynic or the skeptic voice inside of the show and that's like actually incorporated into the world. It's not just something we're thinking. It's something the characters or thinking as they interrogate this too. So obviously this like question is something that like is going to be a through line,

not just for us as viewers, but for the characters. What explanation is there? And I can I can see a world where this is actually something they never answer. That this could be a mystery for us to think about. The mystery forever. Yeah. Like when Llarley's plane explodes and the bear catches fire first, are you like, this was just a plane that had been sitting around and shouldn't have been sent airborne? Or are you like something, somebody compromised the mission or are you like something?

Missy. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, by the way, that plane is the most lost thing that happens in the season when they find a fucking little plane. And you're like, okay. Boon? Boon, is that you? Are you there, Boon?

Also, I'm sure I talked about this in our season one podcast, but the character of Boone and Lost was supposed to be on medication that he ran out of really quickly on the island. Like, that was a plot line that Loss is going to do and they didn't do it. But to have this happen with Lottie is super interesting to me. Do you want to say anything about the mysterious man? By the way, am I the only one who really wish that mysterious man was like Kebacroix or something like that? like French fur trapper vibes. But anything to do with the mysterious man and the mysterious something that Van talked to Ty

about when she nearly died. What do you want to say about that? Right. So we get this dream on the precipice of Jackie's demise as she's dying. And then later we hear Van say, and what the dude says to Jackie is so glad you're joining us. We've been waiting for you. And then we hear Van in the finale.

say to Ty, I saw something Ty. After it happened, I don't think I was dead, but I wasn't really alive either. I think I was like in between or something, which is right in the moment Jackie would have been in when this was happening right on the brink of death. Ty says you were in shock your body was and Van says, no, I know what I saw. I don't know what it meant, but I know I saw something, something was out there with us. So you go back to the funeral pyre sequence and you're watching through Van's eyes and looking at the faces like distorted by these brink. bright colors. And I'm like just looking for that dude's face again and trying to see if he's there. But this does seem like Van is alluding to at least the same kind of experience that we see in this dream where there's like a summoning from some sort of presence. So did Van also see this guy or is it something else? Curious to track that. Hunter dude. I mean, and is this is this specter the body in the chair or is he another figure from the cabin?

Eon's past. I don't know. That's sort of like we've been waiting for you idea is interesting to me because the ghost of Nat's dad says something similar to her in episode four. Like it's been waiting for us. Like here we are at last. And Ty's grandma talks to her about like this arriving angel and like being pulled into another plane and that's obviously right before there's like a kind of almost sweetness

to that exchange but then the horror of the specter of the figure with the missing eyes so yeah this is like across multiple characters and timelines that there's some figure on the as you are about to die not's not dead ghost dad says i don't know what you're so scared of nanny you've already got blood on your hands not her fault by the way dude you're almost we're almost there it's been waiting for us. What is that? Okay. So we've got

the supernatural question, pit girl, really quickly. Do you think this is Mari or another girl that's just sort of been in soft focus in the background or who do you think is in the pit here?

This is where I will briefly return to my question of whether we are going to get the Yellow Jackets version of the others and whether there are other people. in the wilderness with them. I just think that, and honestly, it's possible that maybe

they will just, like, not do it because it would be too similar to loss. But I think it would be helpful to have more characters in the mix at some point soon, including for them to ritually murder

and lead into pits so that they could be spiked by branches and eaten. Probably need more, more folks in the, in the mix there. On the menu? I mean, we've got,

uh, 16 more months, 15 more months. There are characters who have just been in the background, right? So we've got some like, some red shirts. Some, uh, can be slaughtered for the consumption. Nikki and Palos, some Nikki and Palos. Oh, my God. Will we get a Nicki Palo episode?

Like, an expose? Yeah. That would be amazing. If you're like, what are all these references? Watch loss. I don't know what you're doing in their life. Amazing, amazing program. I feel like we've already covered where is hobby.

We had our little, like, debate about that. Where do you come down? What's your, because this also connects to the idea of if there are other people out there still. I like the idea of Javi running off. He's very scared. Oh my God. Has anyone taken Javi to room 23?

I think that's a question that we need to consider. But Havi is trying to hear. Javier. Javier. Javier. And Travis has run off. Everybody's high on doom coming shrooms. Thanks again, Misty.

More like shroom coming. Shana turns him and says, run. And we never see him again. So maybe he stumbles into another society. Like, wouldn't that be interesting? It would. I love this. I hope that there are others for you.

And then he grows up and gets a tattoo of the wilderness on his back and then... And then fuck Shana. Fuck Shana, which he always wanted to do. And then she kills him. Sad. I saw some people say, like, we didn't see Travis and Nat come back to the cabin. We don't really see it happen, but we, Travis, they are in, like, soft focus background when they find Jackie. Though sometimes, in some shots, they're not there.

I don't know. They seem to be back in the cabin. Well, Kelly Narke on her mom regarding Adam. There's this great family moment where, like, Jeff and Shauna reunited, having a great time watching TV. And then all of a sudden, Adam's face pops up. Callie is like, what the fuck? Jeff's like, ugh. And Shauna's like, ugh.

And the popcorn got burnt. But don't worry, there's plenty of butter. What do you think? What do you think? So I guess my question is, like, what does Narking even mean because Jeff knows and knows actually more than Callie? So that would be fun if Callie in a moment of trying, either in genuine horror and concern or trying to outsmart, you know, the whole, the whole mutually assured destruction scene,

like, I kind of invented it. And it's like, let me dunk on you right now, you innocent child who knows nothing of the world. the idea that Callie could try to try to outsmart or beat her mom by telling Jeff that dude you keep the hot dude you keep seeing on the news mom was fucking him I saw them at a party I found his wallet on the floor and then Jeff having to be like again I know very okay with very okay with this

very okay with Shawna killing a guy and also I know that she killed him so it's just some potential for some real interesting family drama. Maybe by the end, the whole unit, the whole family unit is in on all of it and working the cover up together. What's interesting to me about Adam's death, which is very present in the trailers for season two and clearly going to be a thing, is how far

Shauna pushes the lie with the other yellow jackets? Because if you give any of those people a reason not to trust you, then suddenly you're the enemy. So I don't think she can go too long before saying, I'm sorry, I panicked. I was nervous, but here's, like, the truth of what happened here. It's going to be bad for her, I think, really bad if they find that out. And she's not the one who tells them.

And they will find out. Everybody's going to find out everything. That's, like, one of the only things we know to be true in this universe is that you can't keep something secret for long. Misty always knows. You know what I mean? Sean is baby. We've been assured by many people that they're not eating that baby, but the timely doesn't

work out for that to be her teenage daughter. So the question is, what happens to Sean is? baby, where is Shauna's baby, who should be about 25 years old? I don't know. Terrible to think about. I mean, the fact that they, again, incorporated the theory like into, obviously they filmed the show before the theory was out there, but that this horrible idea of, like, will they eat the baby, is just a part of Shauna's dream, you know, the roast chicken

baby and then the allusion to the cheeseburger babies. What an incredible television program. Hashtag hashtag cheeseburger baby. And this, like, in these interviews, when the showrunners are being asked about this, and they have to like, so, again, I think they're doing a great job talking about these things, like having to say, you know,

it would just kind of be like a pretty small meal? Like, would they eat the baby? It's like just kind of a gnaw. Imagine that having to be your explanation. But maybe the character lives and is out there. I do want to point out that an actress by the name of Nicole Mains has been cast in this season. She has been listed as

a Lottie associate. She is 25 years old. Ooh. That actress. Okay. So is Sean's baby in the cult? Did, when they picked them up and

Sean's baby is a year old, was Lottie like, I'll take the baby. My parents are loaded. We'll raise the baby as my own or something like that. You know what I mean? Maybe the baby is born with

the symbol as a birthmark and... Yeah, tattoo size on her back. And maybe the baby decided pre-verbally was like, I'd choose the cults when they got rescued. Anyway... I will say even more than the is Adam Hobby theory, is Adam Shaw's baby. Oh, baby.

In season one was just a real, real moment on the internet. I caught up on Yellow Jackets midway through the season, I think. I wasn't watching the first few weeks live, so I missed the initial theory wave and then was just like mainlining it the last couple of weeks of season one. I was like, holy shit. What a world this is.

By the way, this happens all the time. The actor playing Adam is 37 years old. So like is not the right age, but like. But it's the perfect age to be hobby by the way. Yes, he is. I'm telling you, I was all in on that theory. Okay, last but not least, before we get to sort of like rapid fire questions, who is Elijah Wood playing right?

So he's listed as quote unquote Walter, a fellow citizen detective. I love this fun fact. He and Christina Richie are reuniting after working together 25 years ago in the eye storm. 25 years, you say. Anyway, Elijah Wood, not Jave, is 42 years old. So he's the same age as the actresses playing hardcore for, etc. So Walter, any. thoughts or feelings about.

Just delighted to have more of the citizen detective plot. The pouring the gasoline on the guy's crotch at the bar when trying to get the files in season one was a real moment. I would never relit it to anything more than when Misty was like,

I have my own cork board. Like, should we pin this? Or like, do you want to use yours? It's so funny. So I like getting, I like seeing into this world more in terms of theorizing about who it can maybe be. I mean, the age is matching. I do kind of like the idea that he could have gone to school with them, like that he could have been someone who knew them when they were young

and has worked his way back into Misty's life, perhaps nefariously, perhaps innocently. That could be fun. That could be fun. Maybe he always, he just always liked Misty. Maybe he was at the reunion and saw them together, you know, during the Enya montage and was like, I got to make my move on Misty.

All right, what a great way to transition into our final round of rapid fire questions here. I'm going to skip ahead because you just mentioned the Enya. Best needle drop of season one, Mallory Rubin. What are you thinking? Okay. So that is obviously in the consideration. I can't remember, but I think might be what I picked when we talked about this in the season one finale. So I'm going to go a different direction this time. I do have two picks, but I think you'll allow it.

My first pick is Misty singing Breakfast at Tiffany's as Ben tries to take a shit in Beardown. It was in my top five. Just an absolutely historic television moment that I... It's like two lines of it. Like, or a line a half. It's very little. It's so good. Sometimes I sing a little just to help, you know, release my bowels.

So earnest and so eager to help. Wonderful. Dreams by the Cranberries. Episode three of the dollhouse. When they are running down to the lake and playing in the lake. And then it takes us into the present day timeline of Misty and Nat pulling up to Travis's cabin. There's this like euphoric, oh, maybe we can be happy again moment heading into this just utter despair, which I think in addition to being a great needle drop and a great

sequence really encapsulates the shifting tone and emotion of the show really well. So that's my pick. But of course, shout out, Anya. I'm going to do a Mallory Rubin and do a smuggle here. And I'll just say it's very similar in that like, of course, them also getting kiss from a rose at the shroom coming is right up there, honestly, with practice at Tiffany's. But actually, my number one also comes from episode three

and is also connected to Travis, but it is one of my favorite songs of all time, like of all time, like of all time, which is Vienna by UltraVox. And it plays an 80s song,

not a 90s song. And it plays when, after Nat and Misty have found Travis's body and they get back in the car. And so it's like them in the car, Nat talking about, you know,

Nat was right, the note reveal, Nat saying like, I'm, may not be right about whatever, but I'm right about this. Like, he did not kill himself and then pan up to his body, right? Then this song plays again in the finale and, like, always pay attention to a double needle drop, right? And when it plays in the finale, it plays when Travis first tells Natalie that he loves

her is when it plays. That's an incredible moment and scene. And so, like, when you rewit. So I don't think I noticed it the first time because it was separated by like seven weeks. But watching it on a binge, as I did this weekend, I was like, oh, they're playing Vienna again? Hell yeah, my favorite song. But I'm like, why did they double needle drop it? And so I went back and rewatched the first instance. And when Natalie and Miss you're in the car, Natalie's like thinking about Travis. So I was like, oh, is she thinking about the first time like he told her,

he loved her. You know what I mean? And like, this is what that song is playing. Now, Reddit has a different idea as to about the double needle drop on this because they think. because what is also happening in the finale right around when Travis tells Natalie that he loves her is that's when Jessica dies from the poison cigarette. So they're like, Misty killed Jessica, misty killed Travis. The double needle drop is to tell us that like Misty killed both of these people. I prefer my very romantic version, but listen, I'll be down for whatever that. I mean, if you just want to keep, if this is just, I don't know how licensing works. Like if you pay for a song once, do you have to keep paying for it?

Probably. But the music supervisor on Yellow Jackets is Jen Malone, who is also the music supervisor on Euphoria and also the music supervisor on We Crash. But just incredible, impeccable taste from Jen Malone. And UltraVox, Vienna, one of my favorite songs of all time. All right. Moment of foreshadowing or storyline that stood up the most you want to rewatch. You know, there are a lot of candidates for this, including just some of the big things we've already talked about, like tracking all of those supernatural elements or Adams' entire arc, for example. Everything with Jeff. I think if I had to pick one specific moment, though, it's Ty discovering Sammy's drawings on the window in F sharp episode two. And obviously that leads us toward this like huge reveal about Ty. And we even saying huge reveal, like we get it in pieces. You know, we have like, that. Back in 96, the van saying, you know, treat me like a, treat me like a lady when she sees

how dirty Tye's nails are. And you're like, what is going on with this? So they're like in both timelines, these like moments that lead toward this reveal. And then we get, of course, during the wolf attack, tie up in the tree. We get back in the 2021 timeline, tie in the tree out front of Sammy's. So there's like the richness of how all of those different things stitched together. And then, of course, leading to Biscuit, which I'm still not ready to discuss. But if you just, this is like a classic, take a screenshot and go absolutely bonkers looking at every single one of those drawings and what they might be pointing toward because there's like a lot of stuff with eyes, you know, the pulling of the eye off the doll and like stepping on the eye.

And there's like a whole drawing just of eyeballs. And there's a lot of stuff about like ties eyes flashing red. And like the, again, the showrunners have like just addressed this head on about the contact lenses and things like that. it being this nice benefit. But then, like, you have many, many, many drawings that are clearly of their family where the Thai figure, the bad one, has like these missing eyes and bleeding eyes. But then you're like, wait, but that's the figure Ty saw with her grandma when she was a kid. So what does that mean?

Is that some supernatural presence in addition to what Sammy's seeing? There's like a circle. It's like a black circle with like a red dot in the middle. Yeah. Again, I'm sorry, but I must note. And actually I'll shout out my Adam, my husband Adam, for pausing when we were doing a rewatch. It's on Adam's backt hat and saying, is that the same circle that Sammy drew? So we're just, this is like, I'm just full on freeze framing this stuff.

But I think because of that, like both for the storyline itself and then what it represents about a fun way to watch the show in general, that's my pick. What about you? For me, it was tracing Lottie from the very beginning to the end to like to watch someone who's like, what is it about? you that is going to put you in a position to be a leader not only we know here, but also of this wellness cults in the future and stuff like that. And like watching her behavior, watching her, like what is her involvement in the breaking alley's leg sort of situation, like all of that sort of stuff? What does she like on her meds? What does she like off her meds? I thought it was really interesting her, her reaching out to Laura Lee, her like baptism, all that sort of stuff,

I thought was really, really fascinating on the rewatch. So you love to, when we're chatting House of the Dragons, chat about the idea of a baptism by blood as like another thing to track. And so Lottie has the Laura Lee baptism in the water and the vision there, but also has a baptism by blood with during the, during the seance, you know, the smashing of her forehead and the gushing of the blood washing down over the head. Yeah. And that scar stays on her, right? Yes. So, yeah. Character, you're most invested in going into season two. this is a really hard question because my answer honestly is all of them oh is it colligula i can't wait for another stay in the hotel caligula uh i'm genuinely invested in all of them my answer is shana

if i have to pick one i am most invested in shana across both timelines but i will as a a one b to my one a throw out the the nat Travis relationship as something that i care deeply about deeply. And it's so horrifying, like, knowing that it's headed towards, like, some, you know it's headed towards something so sad. I am also, like, Jeff and Shauna are, like, a close second for me on my list here because, like, suburban murder couple, Jeff and Shauna, like, I'm kind of into it, right? Jeff being such a surprising character, really fun.

But I think for me, it's Tisa, Ty, Van in the past, and Tyne Man in the present. Jasmine Savoy Brown, who I liked before, I saw this, I liked her in the leftovers, but I've since seen the two most recent scream movies, and she is incredible in those movies. And so I'm, like, really into her performance. I think Tony Cyprus is also incredible as adult. Tysa and this idea of the tension between Ty and Van and the past and their, like, maybe disparate beliefs in their relationship. And then also, what is it, you know, like, Ty is now estranged from her wife. what is it going to mean for her to meet Van in the present? You know what I mean?

Like, what's going to happen there? I'm really excited for Lauren Ambrose and Tani Cyprus to interact. All right. We're doing best, funniest line next. And I'm going to go for us on this because I really hope we have the same one. I'm scared you have the same thing. This was easy for me. It's what?

Yes. There's no book. This is my pick too. This is the best moment of the season. I can't believe she thought I was going to book club this whole time. What? There's no book club. Jeff.

So good. I love Jeff. I've become so attached to Jeff. This absolutely kills me this moment. Extremely hot, slightly dumb, loves his wife, you know. I mean, the moment when Jeff, like, stands up to Jackie's parents and he's like, my wife's really smart, she got into Brown, like, fuck off. Are you serious?

Have you taken one of this test? I'm like. I'm like, Jeff, I love you. Okay. So good. What, there's no book club is just an all-timer. His line reading on that is so funny. Okay.

Is the little rabies. Okay, will the misties get better wigs in season two? This is a big question for me. It seems evidence thus far, no. We're sticking with this like stiff sort of firm situation. I will say on the wig front, I believe that the actress Sophie Thatcher, who is playing, Natalie was wearing a, like, platinum shag wig in the first season. She seems to, like, they switched to her own hair because Natalie's bleach is growing out.

So, like, she has, like, a less aggressively bleached shag in season two. It seems like I would argue that it would have grown out faster than that. And everyone who is wearing bangs in the woods, my question is, are you recutting those bangs with a sharp rock? I have questions about that. But anyway, we'll save wig watch for the wig watch for the future. Maybe someone had scissors packed or a razor that they've, you know, they'll have suitcases. I guess you, I don't know. It's a private plane.

Who knows what they packed? Oh, it's true. Lottie had a lot of stuff in her luggage. Okay, last but not least. This is, the question is, who do we think is going to be the first to get eaten? Much similar to best, funniest line,

I think we might have the same answer. We'll just say it on the count of three. We say it at three, yeah. I'll be shocked if we don't have the same pick here. Shocked. One, two, three, coach Ben. He's down and missed dearly when he's gone, but is definitely going to be.

the first one eaten. Down a drumstick, but still tender coached. Yeah, absolutely. And that has been Joanna and Mallory Cackle about cannibalism. No, that was our, where are we going to season two of Yellow Jackets? We'll be back on Friday with our breakdown of the first episode, which we are so excited to go watch, like probably as soon as we finished this call. And we'll talk to you about it on Friday. You can reach us, as Mallory mentioned,

hoppice and dragons at gmail.com. Shrooms and doom, gmail.com was taken. So we're sticking with hobbits and dragons. At gmail.com, we love theories. Please send us your theories. We'll be a little behind on theories because of our release schedule, but we are eager to read them always.

This episode, and all, I believe all of our Yellow Jackets episodes will be produced by the great Carlos Chiroboga. Come back to the feed for succession coverage, for berry coverage, for everything else is going on. Mallory and I are doing the Mandalorian season three over on the Ring universe. What a time to be a TV fan.

Okay. Bounty. Yeah. Check safety of the mushrooms before you consume it. This is true across many shows that we watch. And we'll see you next time. Bye. Thank you.