The Problem With Jon Stewart - I Was Kidnapped by the Taliban: Safi Rauf on Rescuing Afghan Allies

Episode Date: November 11, 2022

This week’s guest is Safi Rauf, an Afghan refugee who came to the U.S. as a teen and is now the president and founder of Human First Coalition. Also a veteran, he tells us about his work in Afghanistan helping to evacuate local interpreters who worked with American troops. He shares the astonishing story of how he was taken hostage—and eventually released—by the Taliban while working there. He also talks about the Afghan Adjustment Act and the obstacles he’s run into while advocating for it. Plus, writers Rob Christensen and Tocarra Mallard stop by for a little schadenfreude about Trump’s very bad midterms week.Stream our newest episode, “Election Wrap-Up Special,” now on Apple TV+.Credits:Hosted by: Jon StewartFeaturing, in order of appearance: Tocarra Mallard, Rob Christensen, Safi RaufExecutive Produced by Jon Stewart, Brinda Adhikari, James Dixon, Chris McShane, and Richard Plepler.Lead Producer: Sophie EricksonProducers: Zach Goldbaum, Caity GrayAssoc. Producer: Andrea BetanzosSound Engineer & Editor: Miguel Carrascal Senior Digital Producer: Freddie Morgan Digital Coordinator: Norma Hernandez Supervising Producer: Lorrie Baranek Head Writer: Kris AcimovicElements: Kenneth Hull, Daniella PhilipsonTalent: Brittany Mehmedovic, Margorie McCurry, Lukas ThimmResearch: Susan Helvenston, Andy Crystal, Cassie Murdoch, Farah Otero-Amad, Irene PlagianosTheme Music by: Gary Clark Jr.The Problem with Jon Stewart podcast is an Apple TV+ podcast, produced by Busboy Productions.https://apple.co/-JonStewart

Hey, everybody, it's John Stewart, today on The Pot. We are going to be talking about the midterms. The midterms are over. They went exactly as everyone would have predicted, as they always do because the media never gets it wrong. Also, we're going to be talking to a gentleman by the name of Safi Raouf. He himself, his story is ridiculous.

Kidnapped by the Taliban, joined the US Navy Reserves, worked with Special Operations Command for four years. By the way, not in that order item. I'm not even going to tell you the order. The order will surprise you. Hello, everybody. Welcome, once again, to the podcast, The Problem. I am John Stewart, and I am part of The Problem.

The show is on Apple TV Plus. We're doing their season two there. We've got a brand new episode. I think it's out to put a date today. It's out today. It's about the midterms. And it is, of course, Veterans Day. And who do we talk to on Veterans Day?

Rob, Kristen's in it. Takara Mallard, our writers. What's up, guys? Yes, I got my veterans tree up. That would be a lovely thing. What would you decorate that with? You got to put your DD214 out for Uncle Sam. And if you were a good veteran,

he breaches your door and makes a payment on your Dodge Ram. Wow. Is that a car? I don't know trucks. The Dodge Ram is a truck. If you're a bad veteran, you get a lump. A lump. You got to get that thing checked out.

It's no. Rob, is there on Veterans Day, do you check in with the other guys in your platoon? I have a list, not necessarily guys I served with, but I run into veterans along the way in college and stuff like that. So I'm kind of tight with other veterans. And I do have a list.

I send them all text, happy Veterans Day. And if we're in the same city, maybe we'll get a drink. Oh, that's really nice. And is that a day like where everybody kind of checks up on each other and is like, hey, man, how you doing? How's this year been? You know, you hanging tough. Everything's good.

All that shit. Yeah, for me it is. Yeah, that's the day that we'll catch up. Yeah. That's really nice. And Takara, I know your family. All veterans, is this the day where they go to the VA and they go, all right, guys, this year is the year

we're getting it together. You know, everyone, I got a nice group chat going. I say, happy Veterans Day. Some people tell me to fuck off because they don't, you know, they don't care, which is really nice. And these are family members. Oh, absolutely. They, of course not.

They think I'm being facetious, but I really do mean it. Takara, why would anyone ever think you're being facetious? That doesn't make any sense to me. It makes sense to me. Rob, be quiet. Be quiet, Rob. We're not doing that. Did you guys, do you feel any lighter now

that the midterms are over? Well, I mean, today I'm feeling a little bit of shot and Freud, and I'm just going to do it guilt-free and enjoy it that some of the slimy-est people are having a bad weekend this weekend. That's right. It's never a bad thing when the slimy people have a bad weekend. Yeah, some of the slimy is still, you know,

Dr. Oz, he has to go back to writing self-health books and selling skinny-fit teas or whatever he does. Very tough to have to retreat back to a giant mansion in New Jersey. It's wild, you know, he lost that election. He put $27 million of his own money into that election, and it is gone. Did he really?

Yeah, but I don't trust that. I'm a conspiracy. Yeah, I think, because you know how they're allowed to lend their money to the campaign and charge interest? I don't think a guy like Dr. Oz of Sleazeball is losing money. I think that he probably lent it to his campaign. So he's going to collect it back with interest?

Yes. OK. Like, he might have a pot of money in his pack or in his other thing, and he'll just take that back. And then he'll write him a coupon for whatever supplements or smoothies he's selling. And then the whole thing, yeah, I don't worry about his finance opportunities at this point.

But I thought it was really interesting, man, because in Pennsylvania, it is a big deal to not be from Pennsylvania. And I don't mean like, I don't think they gave a shit. You know, the Turkish thing, you know, people tried to play that up. I really think the big thing in Pennsylvania, from what I know of Pennsylvania was New Jersey

is a non-starter. Yeah. You could have been a carpet bagger from Oregon, and we would have accepted it. But if you had to drive over the Trenton Makes Bridge to come over here, fuck you, we're not voting for you. And then Federman, he looks like a guy from Pennsylvania. And no one looks more Pennsylvania than he does.

No, that's a guy that looks like there's a few cheesesteaks in that hoodie. You know, he's always got his hands in the hoodie pocket. And I always assume that there's just a little cheesesteak from Pat's that he's cradling. I love on election night, all of his kids coming up on stage and they're all also in hoodies and shorts. The family that car goes together.

I was like, they're happy. Yeah. I don't know what's going to happen. I think Boebert is still in an incredibly tight race in Colorado. It would be wild to see somebody that confidently loony go down. Because that's the thing sometimes about the loonies in Congress is the confidence by which they portray

their assininity. And to see her go down would be, you know, that would be a treat. Well, dumb people think they're smart, you know? And so she's one of them. Maybe that's the thing. Maybe it's the confidence of, what do they call that, the Dunning-Kruger effect

or something along those lines? But yeah, it's going to be very interesting. How did you follow the midterms, just watching the cable nets? Well, you know, we do it for work. I don't know if you know that, but we have to follow them for our job. It's in our contract.

I had to watch Fox News all night. What kind of an ogre, what kind of a man would force good people to subject themselves to that kind of torture? I requested Fox News. I was in there all night. Can I tell you what happened? This is a true story.

So we had some people assigned to CNN. And about halfway through, they were like, this is so fucking boring. I cannot stand this. They were wrecked. They were so mad. They actually had a worse night than the people who were assigned to Fox, because at least Fox was,

they keep it horrifyingly interesting. Absolutely. Fox was a party, because you get to let it out. You get to put the middle finger up at the TV and scream, you're a liar and all that stuff. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Fox is like watching it at Hooters.

You get to sit there. It's raucous. You're throwing things around. CNN, you were just like, am I in math class? One of my favorite things toward the end of the night, and then the day's following is the blame game that came about. Like, they're like, oh, it's Gen Z's fault.

We got to raise the voting age to 21. They're destroying our country at the ballot. Like, they are in it. And I have to say, Gen Z has ruined nothing, except jeans sizes. They're too big. They're way too big. Old lady to car.

Let me tell you something. In my day, we wore jeans that fit correctly. With belts. Made by hand. You know when I was a young man. I really think it's interesting that Fox's answer to it and the conservative answer to it is we have not restricted the vote properly.

Yeah, total fascist stuff. We've got to stop letting single women vote. We've got to stop letting people who are under 20. Who voted for us? 50-year-old? Maybe that should be the cutoff. Fox is going after anyone who dresses sexy and goes to the club.

Gen Z, single ladies, Don Lemon. We've got to stop this. All the single ladies. But if Fox went after those people, they'd have no B-roll to run on their network because there is no raunchier network than Fox News. How many spring break stories do they run that is just an excuse to see people

in swimwear guzzling alcohol? No, that's just a cautionary tale. They're trying to save souls, John. I didn't realize it was instructional. Well, I'll send you some links. Well, I appreciate that. That's very kind. But I found it interesting that there was no reflection on,

you know, women who aren't married, they have concerns about bodily autonomy maybe that are valid or young people have valid concerns about the future monetarily, the future climate why all these other things, their first response is you don't get to vote anymore. Exactly. The wild choice.

And I think a lot of the young people came out because there was actually a chance to change the status quo. So many times, we don't want to go out because it's the same thing. But now it's like, oh, we can fight for abortion or we could legalize drugs and get people out of jail. These things will change the status quo, which

is what a younger vote is looking for. That's right. And I guess what Fox is saying is we're looking for people that have already been broken by the system who are voting along those lines. Well, it was certainly a fascinating night. And judging by the New York Post headlines, it's going to be an interesting, I mean, Trump-ty-dumpty?

Love it. I love it. Refuse to build the wall? By the way, for those who haven't seen the newspaper, it's a giant drawing of Trump as Humpty Dumpty, which, by the way, the only thing they had to change about the actual Trump is the shoes he was wearing.

It's really actually quite. Oh, that hurt. My feelings. Damn. Damn. I don't know that there's anything that would be more infuriating to a megalomaniac like Trump. And he's seeing this while he's hiding from a hurricane

in Mar-a-Lago. And it was supposed to be Tiffany Trump's wedding this week. They had guests there. The hurricane canceled it. And he's seeing this newspaper. Oh, it feels so good. Listen, I make no pronouncements. They come out.

Trump is done. No, he's not. He's an antibiotic-resistant strain of human. If Atlantic City couldn't do this guy in, nothing can. So I don't buy any that he's done. He's this, he's that. But, rough night. And we can enjoy it, yeah.

And we can enjoy it. All right, guys, I'm going to talk to Safi Rove. He's got a fascinating story, but ultimately, it comes down to this. He's trying to find a path for Afghans who helped the United States military during our war, find their way to the United States because we abandoned them. Rob, did you have any experience with Afghan interpreters,

contractors, any of those folks? No, the Air Force is kind of a cushy deal. I did not have to go over there. I was very far from war. And I did dance on some bar tops when I was. Oh, so you had more of a top gun experience? I did, yes. Understood.

Do you have folks that you know that you are invested in this issue at all, or have expressed feelings to you about the topic of abandoning those folks? Yeah, I mean, people, like, they're our allies. These guys, they worked with them around the ground. They want these interpreters out like they would want an American citizen out of there. It's the same thing.

Oh, it's that, yeah. It's that deep. Yeah, absolutely. Right. Well, Safi's been working on it tirelessly, and maybe that's the next little fight we can poke our noses into. So we'll talk to him, and then we'll

grab you guys on the way out. Sounds good. Thank you. Thank you. Listen, man. We're very excited today to be talking to Safi Rove. He is the president and founder of Human First Coalition. First of all, Safi, welcome to the show.

Great to see you. Thank you so much for having me. Thank you. It's our pleasure. So we were down in DC, and we were talking to Dick Durbin about the Afghan Adjustment Act and how in this country we had a lot of Afghan interpreters and a lot of other contractors who

are Afghan who worked with the United States through that 20-year period of the war. And at the end of it, as the Taliban took over the country, we abandoned our allies. And I run into this gentleman by the name of Safi Rove, who is parked outside of the Capitol with a group. And I run into you down in DC, and you're lobbying to get this Afghan Adjustment Act,

and you and I start to talk, and you start telling me your story. And it is, I mean, honestly, you're James Bond. I know they're looking for another James Bond, and I think you may be him. Tell me a little bit about just your story. You are Afghan-American, yes? So, John, I was born in a refugee camp. Where?

In Pakistan. And that's where I was raised for 17 years. At 17, I came to the US. My parents came to the US four years ahead of me. So I was separated from my family at 12 until I was 17 for four years before I joined the US. In a refugee camp. In a refugee camp.

So when Kabul fell, and then all of these refugees are scrambling, and some are falling from planes, and trying to stick onto those planes, trying to get out. And I see myself all over again. I'm like that kid who was in a refugee camp trying to survive. And a lot of people saw that, and they couldn't understand. They were like, why would somebody stick onto a moving plane and not realize that they're going to fall from the sky to their death?

And I was like, I understand this because it's either a chance to live or actually die trying. And a lot of refugees do that. It's desperation and an escape from chaos. It's the desperation for survival. Actually, there is a better chance of survival versus staying in a war-torn country. That's right.

And so you go, you're living in Pakistan and you're there for 17 years. I don't know if people understand the uncertainty of a life in limbo when you are stateless, when you are a refugee. And I imagine it's very difficult to maintain a hopeful future for yourself. You're sort of living in hiding. You don't tell people you are a refugee. You are outside. You kind of pretend like you're from there.

I'm fluent in six languages. And that's because everywhere you go, you want to learn the language because if you don't know the language, people are going to know that you're a refugee, you're not from there. And then you'll be persecuted, you'll be targeted. And, you know, because as it happens in every country, like the United States, people don't like refugees. Is that how things are?

Are you sure in the United States, too? I can't believe that. Yeah, yeah, I don't know. I just, you know, if we go to the Staten Island or something, maybe I don't know. But you did, you come to the United States and I thought what was fascinating about this is you join the military of the United States. Yes. So when I came to the U.S., I became a U.S. citizen in 2012. And the first time, that's the first time I actually held a passport.

And that's the first time I could, you know, feel a sense of belonging to a country being a citizen. And, you know, of all places, my family moved to Nebraska. So. Cornhuskers, man. Yeah. So as bad as it was, as in, you know, there's still a lot of racism in, you know, when they see a brown kid, and especially at a time when...

That's post 9-11 and people know we're at war with the countries you're from. Yeah, exactly. So even though you are still dealing with a lot of that, but at the same time, you have a home, you have a family, you have a way of to provide for your family, you have a way of participating in the civil discourse, if we can call it that. You know, it's... We used to be able to call it that, but yes. Yeah, so it was incredibly exciting, you know.

You joined the United States military in what year? In 2012. As an American, I actually went back to Afghanistan from 2012 to 2016 and served as a cultural advisor with the Special Operations. So I was with the task force from 2012 to 2016 and served all across Afghanistan, north, south, central, and did a lot of work and did a lot of sensitive work. And we had a lot of local interpreters and when the time came for their SIVs... SIVs are special immigration visas that are given to people who've been allies in the

United States or helped or those things. Yeah, exactly. So I was working with them and when the time came and we needed to give those recommendation letters to those local people, what happened was this was one of the most secretive organizations in the United States military. So working with locals, they're like, well, sorry, man, I can't put my name on this sheet of paper because we don't exist. So people that they're working for are so high up on the security level that they can't

even acknowledge that these local Afghans are helping the United States effort. Absolutely. So people will see what predicament that puts those individuals in when it comes later. So you're really spending four years in Afghanistan as a part of the United States military working with Special Operations Command and you're, I'm assuming, interpreting, working with, doing all these different things for four years till 2016. Yeah. I'm training these women.

Training these guys, these Afghan women who are doing incredibly important work like, John, I can tell you, I can tell you this, that we didn't have another 9-11 because of those people. We literally stopped a guy as he was getting on a plane to the United States from Kabul Airport with the help of these people that we trained. These were incredibly courageous people who were going inside the Taliban, going inside al-Qaeda, going inside of these terrorist organizations. And incredibly dangerous work, not just for themselves.

But I think if we know anything about the Taliban and al-Qaeda and the way they operate, they will go after your family. Absolutely. I mean, you're putting your entire lineage at risk when you take the step to start working with the United States in this environment. Yeah. And that's exactly what I tell people. It's like those people who served alongside our troops, they did not serve Afghanistan

as much as they served the United States. For 20 years, they kept those terrorists at bay. So in 2016, you come back. Yes. And you come back to the United States and you start school. Yeah. I start school and I also joined the U.S. Navy Reserve as a corpsman. Wow.

Okay. So you've worked for the United States Army for four years. Now you're a U.S. Navy Reserve. You're keeping an eye on what's going on in Afghanistan. But at that moment, you don't have any idea that there's about to be a withdrawal, a collapse or any of those things. When did that come up on your radar that made you go back to Afghanistan? So when Kabul fell, I just couldn't sit around and watch.

I was like, I am not going to watch this while I know I can help them. I know I can do something there. So I got right on it and started evacuating people. And before I knew it, I was running a team of over a hundred in Afghanistan, in Pakistan, in Tajikstan, Uzbekistan and the United States. And when is this? Give me the timeframe on that. This is by August 19, we had a full-on operation center right outside the White House.

We were across the street. You put together this team. There's a hundred people. You've got this incredible organization. I think someone told me you were responsible for getting out almost 10,000 Afghans as the US was exiting the country. Yeah, not only that, John, but also 1,400 US citizens after August 31. So this is when the US pulled out.

So you can imagine how important and crucial that worked. My organization was actually the first one who got a flight out after the withdrawal. It was 117 US citizens. Safi, how are you doing that? I mean, the United States had trouble getting flights out at that point. How are you doing it? And how are you getting these folks out? How are you coordinating it?

Are you doing it through a land route into Pakistan and then getting that what they call the lily pad, finding another country? Or are you actually getting flights out from Kandahar or Kabul or any of those places? Yeah. So I actually went to Afghanistan. I went back to Kabul. I sat down with the Taliban leadership and I was like, hey, look, guys, this is in your best interest.

These flights, this is how you start looking like a legitimate government. Then a flight goes out of Kabul to another international airport that tells the international community that, hey, look at the Taliban, they can actually do this. So I go there, I sat down with them, I convinced them. And then there were a lot of hiccups in that. But by the end, we were able to get the flight directly out of Kabul to Abu Dhabi and the US. Amazing.

The hiccups that go on when you're trying to fly united from Newark to Tampa. I can't even imagine the intrigue of that. So you start putting these flights together and you're getting out 10,000 people. And do you have to stay on the ground in Afghanistan to ensure that each one of these flights and all of these passengers are given safe passage? Are you working directly with the Taliban at that time to get that done? Yes. So I was working directly with the Minister of Civil Aviation, the Minister of Interior.

I'm working directly with the Minister of Foreign Affairs. The bureaucracy of the Taliban. Yeah, exactly. They all know too that I'm working with the State Department and I'm not just them because I do run an NGO. My NGO is registered in Afghanistan and it's registered here and I'm doing this. But you've got to be concerned for your safety. I mean, it's the Taliban and I assume they know who you are.

Yeah. You know what's ironic? Taliban gave me eight bodyguards to make sure I was safe. The Taliban were protecting you. So they saw you as an asset in maybe re-establishing their credibility. Yes, exactly. All of them are on board with this and we are doing phenomenal. And then on December 18th of last year, I was taken by the Taliban, taken hostage by

a rogue element within the Taliban, their general directorate of intelligence. Wait, wait. So you were captured by an offshoot of the Taliban. Was this something that you think was planned with your bodyguards? Was this where you did someone turn on you? No, it wasn't the Taliban that I was working with. Taliban are fragmented. It's not a monolith and this general directorate of intelligence actually operates outside

the system. And they're not communicating to each other and there is no central authority necessarily that's keeping track of it. No, no. There is no accountability on this part. And they are the ones that are actually taking a lot of foreigners hostage, John, of what I'm tracking. I'm tracking at least five U.S. citizens who are held by them since August of this year.

Now, do these folks understand who they've captured? Do they know you're this high value target that's been working to evacuate Afghans and Americans out of the country? Because this minister of intelligence, does he understand who you are? So they have an idea, but it gets more interesting. Wait, what? No, it can't get more interesting. This is the most interesting story I've heard.

It's a good party trick. When I go to parties, somebody's like, oh yeah, in college I played football. And then I'm like, well, I was taken hostage. So then the conversation kind of from there is... You can one-up almost anybody that you come in with. All right. Yeah, if somebody is mad at me, I was like, well, you can't be mad at me because I was a hostage.

I was a hostage with the Taliban. You know, what's funny is I'm not the only one who uses that. My girlfriend uses it too. Come on. Your girlfriend was taken hostage by the Taliban as well. No, she was, but she went through it. She has a huge part in my release actually. She went to war with the Biden administration.

She has this 45-minute phone call with Assistant Secretary of State Wendy Sherman, and this call is just absolutely amazing. She's a Broadway director, and she has no idea of the nuances of bureaucracy. Foreign relations, but she's smart. So she gives Wendy Sherman a run for her money. Safi, you're going to turn this into a musical, aren't you? Is Lin-Manuel Miranda already on board to play Safi Raouf in The Hostage? This is incredible.

How long were you held by the Taliban? 105 days, three and a half months. Holy shit, Safi, and when they hold you, is it Americans, I think, have a stereotypical view of a dank dungeon tied to a chair, bread and water. Is that generally how this goes down? Partially, actually, some of that. So I was taken to a basement. This room was eight foot by eight foot.

We got two meals a day, and it was rice and bread. Were you held with others, or were you in solitary? Yeah, so that's John. So my brother is with me as well. Safi, you're killing me. This is crazy. So my entire family is running this operation, you know, all of them voluntarily. Did your brother ever turn to you and say, you couldn't have run a Wendy's?

You couldn't have gone into business doing something else? You had to drag us all back to Afghanistan to get captured by the Taliban. John, the most difficult part of being a hostage was being stuck with your brother for 105 days in an eight by eight foot room. And, you know, you're not taking showers either. So you can only, John, can you even, in normal circumstances, you know... No, listen, I shared a room with mine for a while, and yeah, you're right. It's not pleasant, and I didn't even have to deal with the Taliban at that point.

But damn. So you guys are, you're together for this hundred days. Are you in communication with anybody other than your captors? Are you getting any messages in and any messages out? Well, that's where my, the work I had done before, when that's when it comes in to use. I start turning the guards and some of the guards starts working for me. And, you know, at this point, my family, nobody has any idea where we are, who is holding us. And if we are alive, or actually, some people were telling my family that we were executed.

You know, we were just quietly executed and, you know, thrown somewhere. And because they had no idea. But I was able to, on day 17, I was able to turn one of the guards and used his phone. He let you use his phone? Well, it's a longer story than that. First, let me just get to the real stuff. What kind of data plan did he have? And what were the international charges on the call?

And you got a message out on day 17. Who did you send the message to? So initially, I sent the message to my team that was in Kabul that you were alive and that you were captured. Yeah. And I mean, you know, just that part where how we we turned that guard could be turned into a movie itself. And, you know, how I got out is is is a story of, you know, love and dedication and family as well. Right. You know, day 45, my family, including my my dad, my mom, my brother, that my other brother, one is stuck with me, the other is in the U.S. And my parents are in the U.S.

And my sister-in-law, they all come to Kabul. Now, are they under protection of the Tallah? Are they under? How do they come there without thinking, oh, we're just going to get thrown into the same room? Yeah. So so, John, my dad, he's a very humble guy. He's a veterinarian, but he wields the kind of power in the community that no one is going to, you know, mess with him. So he comes to Kabul. He commands, respect, he demands, respect.

And yes. Is the U.S. government in any way involved in this at this point? Or is it just your family? Yes. So the U.S. government is involved in this and they are doing everything. But the Taliban are not talking to them. The Taliban are not giving them any information to the information they're getting. And you see, like I evacuated 1400 U.S. citizens and I also evacuated President Biden's interpreter.

So at this point, President Biden knows me by my first name. So I am on president's daily brief every day. This is bananas. And are the negotiations based on we'll give you a certain amount of money or are they saying, look, for a guy who is who is on the president's daily brief, I'm going to need two bomb makers and somebody else to get released for you to even have a shot at this. Like you're a valuable target at that point. Yeah. And in John, that's where my dad comes into the picture.

So my dad comes to Kabul with my mom. He goes directly to the director of General Directorate of Intelligence. He sits across the table from him and he tells him this. He's I have 11 children. I have 28 grandchildren. I have four great grandchildren. I have two brothers and three sisters and all of them have that many children and grandchildren. And I have hundreds of cousins.

And then my extended family goes beyond thousands. And my tribe is the largest tribe in all of Afghanistan. You're holding my son. I come to you as a father who has limitless love for his children. I am asking you humbly, release my sons. Oh, my God, you're going to make me cry. This is unbelievable. And he also tells him that the chair you're sitting in, my friend,

used to sit in that chair and we fought together against the Russians. And this director knows him. He's like, oh, he was your friend then says, I will release your son as long as the US sends a plane to pick him up. And in this man, his name is Abdul Hakwasiq and he was held in Guantanamo for 12 years. He was he was released in exchange in exchange for Bob Bergdahl. So he knows the game, but when my dad tells him this story, he is one, he's moved, but also at the same time, he doesn't want any issues.

So this is a month before I got released. Wait a minute, a month before and I know you're about to tell me something. Yeah. It took them a month to send you a plane. Exactly. So there were several things that play here. One, you know, hostages historically are have been like Bob Bergdahl was released in exchange for five top Taliban commander, including this guy who's holding me. You know, Nazanin Radcliffe was recently released for three hundred and ninety three

million pounds, which, again, is is not worth a lot because of Liz Truss. And, you know, the is not much. I did not expect you to take a swing at the six week British Prime Minister. But all right, now here we are. This is first of all, let me just clarify earlier, I had said you were James Bond. I have now I'm going to amend that. You're Batman. You're not James Bond. You're Batman and continue with the story.

You've got a month to get a plane from the United States. Yes. So initially, the US is like, OK, we're going to send a plane. We're going to do this and we're going to get him out. And everything is happening. And on March twenty third of last year, Taliban basically didn't allow girls to go to school. So that's when the administration sort of started walking back on their promise of sending a plane.

They didn't explicitly say it, but it probably looked bad for the administration to go to a country where girls are not allowed to go to school. But they're not going for, you know, a stroll or a visit or a diplomatic thing. They're sending you. Away home. Yeah. And in that, but this is bureaucracy. You know, this is they they they they think about everything. And they forget that maybe it's it's individual humans on the ground.

I mean, I think that's largely sometimes, you know, people become pieces on a on a risk board, as opposed to the human beings that they are. And when that gets forgotten, it's tough. Yeah. And this is where my girlfriend is the champion in the story is when she went to assistant secretary of state, Wendy Sherman, and basically told her, I need to speak with the secretary Blinken or I need to speak with the president. And that's when, you know, the the day before I was released, the next day was April Fool.

It was April first. So the guard comes comes up to me. He's like, oh, you are getting. So this guard at this point, I have like good relationship with him and sort of turned him and he tells me you're getting released tomorrow. And I'm like, I'm not falling for your tricks. Tomorrow is April first to the Taliban abide by the April 1st prank rule. So I was like, oh, funny, ha, ha, you are, you know, you're pulling my leg.

And I I didn't really believe it. But that night I had that smuggled phone and I call my girlfriend. I'm like, hey, so I think I'm getting released tomorrow. And you know what she says? April Fool's I'm not ready. And I'm like, what the hell? What do you mean you're not ready? But what she meant was that she has to do like this press release. She has to talk to like, because Jake Tapper was like very much involved

in this as well, because he broke the story and he knew about it the whole time. And we were trying to keep it keep it away from press because then it would become much, much bigger and much more fraught and much more dangerous. Yes. So, you know, she's like, I have to tell Jake Tapper. I have to prepare this, you know, press release. So. So you've been in you're in a dungeon, an eight by eight dungeon with your brother. You haven't showered in three months. You're being held hostage.

You're about to come home. And the answer is you can't come home yet. I have to tell Jake Tapper. Yes. Yes. So I'm like, OK, I guess I'll I'll tell the Taliban, you know, to to hold off for a couple of days. And, you know, tell tell the USG to hold off on that plane for a couple of days. So in the end, on April 1st of all days,

the US did send a plane, they send a C17. And, you know, ironically, sure, ironically, that plane could have fitted another 899 Afghans. But it came just for me. And I got to Doha that day. And when you get home, the interesting thing. So, you know, the fascinating story for me is that you have not just in the situation where you were at risk,

you have been putting yourself at risk, not just for the United States, but for the Afghan people, for the refugees. And you've worked tirelessly. And the only thing that seems to be standing in your way at almost every turn is bureaucracy and poor decision making. Yeah. And that's exactly, you know, I got to Doha and I get to meet my girlfriend. And the first question I asked her, I was like, how is the refugee situation? How is how is our work?

And she's basically like, well, everybody's been 24 seven nonstop trying to get you out, so we haven't done much. And I was like, oh, no. And I got back to work right then and there. And I flew to Washington, D.C. And like I said before, my family is from Nebraska. My entire family lives in Nebraska. I don't go to see my family.

I go to D.C. And I start lobbying Congress again to figure something out. When he says figure something out, there's there's really kind of two methods for people who were translators or who worked for the American government during this time, there's humanitarian parole, and then there's the SIV program. And the SIV program and humanitarian parole have some ridiculous absurdities to them. I think one of them to apply for it costs you five hundred dollars or five hundred and seventy five dollars, something along those lines to even apply.

Now, five hundred and seventy five dollars, you may think to yourself, well, you know, you work a little bit, you could probably put that together. But this is in Afghanistan, the average annual salary is four hundred dollars. You're you're saying to people just to apply. You need to give us more than a year's worth of your wages. Just to apply. A lot of people did, you know, they I'm sure about 40,000 people applied. And, you know, the US CIS got about twenty three million dollar of money

just in fees from those people. But what's what's what's sad, John, only one hundred twenty three cases were adjudicated from the humanitarian parole program. You're telling me so so they got twenty three million dollars from Afghans who are applying. A hundred and twenty three of those cases received humanitarian parole. Yes, John. That's criminal. You know what, John, for for the the same program for a Ukrainian,

they waived the fee and they processed a hundred thousand in five months, a hundred thousand people in five months and waived the fee. We work in Ukraine as well and I'm not against. Sorry, and I'm just going to throw this out there. It's purely conjecture on your part. What would the reason be for the difference in the way Afghans who had worked for the United States in service of protecting and assisting our war effort?

Why would they be treated so much less in a less welcoming fashion than Ukrainians and I will take your answer off air first time, long time. Yeah, so, John, I'm brown and for the last month, I've been advocating for the Afghan Adjustment Act and mostly I've been traveling to all the red states. And the first thing people see is my color. And based off of that is how the conversation is going to go. A lot of the people who go on these meetings with me are white.

So, you know, I'm from Nebraska. I go to Nebraska. I go to the senator's office and I'm talking to the director there. And, you know, I'm talking to her and I'm like, I'm your I'm your constituent. I'm a veteran and I'm advocating for the Afghan Adjustment. And she's like, yes, OK, that's that's her answers to me. This white male starts talking to her and says, I'm a veteran. He's not even the constituent.

And she picks up a pen and paper. She starts writing everything he's telling her and she's smiling. She's engaging. If it's not my color, I don't know what else it is. It must be for all that you've done and all that you've given and all that you've gone through, I can't imagine the frustration and. But quite frankly, the anger that you must have felt, especially given that, you know, you're talking about the Afghan Adjustment Act. The Afghan Adjustment Act would allow a a path to a permanent citizenship

for those who have been vetted and who have helped us. We have done this for almost every other war. There was a Vietnam Adjustment Act. There was a 1975 Cuban Adjustment Act, 1966. And, you know, all those, you know, the the Indochina Migration Act of 1975 brought 175,000 people and gave them permanent residency in the United States. The Cuban Adjustment Act in 1966 actually gave permanent resident to 1.2 million people.

And most recently, the Iraqi Adjustment Act. That's right. I think we've done two Iraqi Adjustment Acts. Exactly. And then again, in the in the 2000s, and then the Iraqi Special Immigrant Visa was better than the Afghan SIV. Because the Iraqi SIV, you could bring your extended family, like your parents and your siblings in the Afghan Adjustment Act. You could only bring your children and wife. So Afghanistan is getting the short end of the stick everywhere here.

And, you know, when we left Iraq in 2011, that's when ISIS started ramping up. And in 2014, they were controlling 40 percent of Iraq. And that's when we went right back. So three years, three years, we went back to Iraq. And, you know, if we leave Afghanistan the way it's going right now, we'll be right back. Yeah, we've we've left that country in shambles. I mean, it also speaks to, you know,

this isn't the first time that United States has exercised its power throughout the world. And and perhaps, you know, I'd like to believe not malevolently, but certainly with a carelessness that you would hope that this country wouldn't have, that there'd be more consideration. But the fact that, you know, we've abandoned our, forget about just the Afghan people and the idea that, you know, we went over there and we spent trillions of dollars to execute a war.

And then we walk away and you have a humanitarian crisis that has developed, you know, when a group like the Taliban takes over. And they're obviously being, you know, isolated from the rest of the, you know, so-called civilized world. But more importantly, who are we as a country to turn our backs on the people that risk their lives for us? And the Afghan Adjustment Act, all it would do is say those that risk their lives for us, we owe you a debt of gratitude.

And that debt of gratitude is a safer, more prosperous life. Absolutely, John. And, you know, the humanitarian aid, humanitarian crisis that you bring in, it's the worst we've ever seen. 1.1 million children will die if we don't intervene. They will die from starvation. It's one of the worst kinds of debt you can have because it's slow, it's painful and the parents sit there and watch as their children wither away. There's nothing worse than that.

And the only way to solve that is through grassroots organizations. Will the Taliban allow that? I mean, is there, can the NGOs operate freely in a country controlled by, as you even said yourself, groups that are not necessarily in communication with each other and contact working for the same purposes? Is the Taliban not as in control of the operations as they could be? How do you even execute something like that nationwide? Yeah, so, like I said, you know, Taliban are not a monolith

and grassroots organizations are allowed to work. And Taliban actually want humanitarian aid to go in because, you know, it stops civil unrest, you know, when people don't have anything to eat. The first finger that they're going to point towards is the Taliban. So that's why they are allowing that. But we've been funding large aid organizations like World Food Program, like UN agencies, UNICEF, many others, you know, save the children, bread, cross, all of those, but they're not effective.

The reason they're not effective because they're too big. They, a lot of the aid that goes through them goes directly to the Taliban. And then the Taliban decide who the aid they're going to give to. A lot of the times it's the families of their own soldiers and their own soldiers and people that are their supporters. So what needs to happen is smaller grassroots organization needs to get a small percentage of all of the aid and distributed across Afghanistan, especially because, you know, Afghanistan is a collection of,

you know, many, many, many small ethnicities. It's not one large ethnicity where you can send the aid to them and you make an effective change. And it's not a monolith either. And different parts of the country are indifferent, you know, have an influence from Pakistan or they have an influence from other areas. And it's a really complex and difficult even terrain. I mean, you go to the north and it's humid and lush and down in the south,

it's dry. And I mean, it's, it's a, you know, a universe unto itself. Yeah, absolutely, John. And that's that's exactly what we need to do is. And, you know, the Afghan Adjustment Act, I'm going to keep saying that because that's the most important piece of legislation. Well, where does that stand now? So if people want to help with that and, you know, if they want to help and get involved and get this thing over the finish line,

I find it hard to believe that this isn't something that has more universal support. And I don't know if it's I think what you said about it's brown, but it's also to be honest, Muslim, you know, in a country like this, where Christianity is obviously the dominant religion, Islam is considered an enemy at some level. Yeah, absolutely, John. It's it's a difficult cell then only on that and not on its merits.

But but you have to look at this, John. Afghans are not just any population. They stood by us for 20 years, shoulder to shoulder with with our veterans. This is a veterans issue. This is a national security issue. You know, the number one thing that the Afghan Adjustment Act does is vet all those people that we've brought over last year. So if anybody is concerned about that, this is the exact bill that they should be asking for so that we can vet all those people.

And in addition, I don't know that there's any. This is an important point to make for people. I don't know that there's any immigrant that comes to the shores of the United States either through legal bureaucratic methodologies or some methodologies that are less so that are more vetted than Afghans. Yes, I honestly believe that that the process that they are being put through and that they were put through to work side by side with the United States military, it's the most rigorous vetting of any immigrants

that come anywhere near this country. Yeah, absolutely. And we are asking to do more, do more vetting and then, you know, let them let them have a home here. Because, John, if these people don't get here or don't get a pathway to resettlement, they're going to be 100 percent sent back because we saw the election, you know, the house is already flipped. And in, you know, 2024, what's going to happen then?

If we have a Republican president in the White House, they will send all of these Afghans back to Afghanistan, and they will be killed, all of them, every one of them. You know, just one story of these 148 girls from Asian University for Women in Afghanistan. They were they were actually not supposed to be brought here, but they they they came here and now they're they're going to school here. Like 14 of them are going to Brown nine at Cornell, 67 at Arizona State

and 15 of them at Delaware University. They're going to school. They're learning. They're in master's programs. Well, if they're going to Arizona State, I don't think they're learning. I think I think the other ones you mentioned, I think in Arizona State, at least they're having a good time. Sophie, that's correct. You know, when you talk about this, what can people do to try and help

get this thing over the finish line as as quickly as possible? This Afghan adjustment, call your senators. We just need seven more Republican senators to get this passed. And understand this, for people that are that are listening, there's also another element to this that we haven't really discussed. And that's the moral injury to the soldiers, because don't think for a second. You know, you've got American servicemen and women who fought for 20 years in Afghanistan to what end nobody is really sure they spent their lives.

They sacrificed their families. They saw their friends get killed. And after 20 years, the Taliban is just back in power. And no one really knows ultimately what the effort was for and what it's going to come to pass. But to add to that, the idea that those in Afghanistan who risk their lives to stand with us are not being helped, adds a moral injury to an already wounded population emotionally,

which is our servicemen and women. And I think they're the ones that are working the hardest to get their allies. These are American servicemen and women working to make their service count. There's not a single veteran that doesn't support the Afghan Adjustment Act. I've been all across America. We've for the last two months, we've been to every Republican state in the US. And we have talked to every VFW. We've gone to every VFW post.

We've gone to every Legion post and we've talked to every veteran and they all overwhelmingly supported because they understood what you did. They're angry, they're hurt, especially the Vietnam veterans. They understand and they they know that they have dealt with moral injury. And now the Afghanistan veterans that have, you know, are dealing with the moral injury. It's absolutely horrific to see. And these veterans suffering for for over a year now. And there's not anything that's done for the Afghans

to actually give give some relief to those veterans. It's it's a veterans issue. So do it for the veterans. Understood. Safi, I can't thank you enough for coming by and talking to us. We're going to keep this on. Obviously, you and I will be in contact in terms of other things that that we at the show can do and that I can do to help put some pressure on and get these things over the line.

Because if we continue to believe that we are in any way a moral country, absolutely, this is very high up at the top of the list of things we would have to do to demonstrate that. So I really appreciate you being here. I look very much forward to seeing the Broadway show about your life. And no one no one left behind is the organization that that we had been in contact with. And obviously, Safi's organization, which is called Human First Coalition,

the Human First Coalition, you've already done so much, Safi. And and I'm sure you will continue. And then we'll get that medical school back on track. And then you will become my gastroenterologist or something. Something's going to this relationship will continue. Yes. Yes, John, absolutely. I want to be a Navy surgeon and I want to continue to serve my country. You're you're a great man.

Thank you so much, Safi. Thanks for joining us. Thank you, John. Wow, that blew my mind. A hell of a story. Join a privilege to hear his story. And that wasn't even all of his story. That clearly there's more and more and more.

And I want to know all of it. Well, each time because it was funny, each time you'd get to it and you go, John, there's a small part I'm not telling you. And then you would go into and it would be the most incredible. Like the thing I never mentioned is this. It was my brother who was with. Yes. Yeah. Can I tell you the thing that I thought

was most remarkable about it, his ability to maintain a sense of humor. You know, I almost think is is actually the antidote. It's almost like a vaccine to being tortured in that way. Because it's such a higher level of humanity that if you can maintain, I almost feel like his ability to maintain that. Is the key to having gotten through in some way. Absolutely. I agree.

I was thinking, wow, I think his, his humor may have saved his life, especially with his talk with turning the guards. And I'm like, OK, that took charisma and joy and charm and humor. Yes. I think it saved him. And now afterwards to even tell the story, right? You're trying to get the story out and to make it interesting and funny. It helps the cause.

So much more. Yeah. When he said the worst part about being held by the Taliban was being stuck with his brother. That was my favorite. A hotline. Yes. You know, it's so interesting to me because in some ways, you know, I've always viewed humor as a defense mechanism, right?

Yeah. I think I've always viewed it as like it's a shield that I wore to hide something, to cover an insecurity, in order to protect myself. But when I see it from him, I viewed it in a very different light. I saw it as something essential to the human condition. And in some ways, as an asset that he used to do all these incredible things. It's almost the opposite of a shield.

He's using humor to bring people closer. Right. Yeah. Rob, Kristen. I know. That was really nice. Rob. I got heat today.

Have you been doing therapy? Oh, man. Retail therapy, maybe. You know, it's a lot of affirmations in the mirror in the morning. Do you think what would be the best way you think Rob and Takara, in terms of getting veterans more involved in this aspect of it? Because it's so personal to so many veterans about viewing them as allies and having left behind.

I don't know the way to galvanize them in the same way. Or maybe it is the same way, sort of, that we did with the Pank Deck, which is let's go through VFW and IAVA and all those other organizations and get them together as a team again, which I know they are. I mean, I know they're all working on it. Maybe it's a question of just consolidating them. Right. There is legislation that needs to be passed, right?

Afghan Adjustment Act. That's right. Yeah. You just got to get the force behind it. Again, it's a slam dunk. And the hardest thing to do. Yeah. I was going to, you know, combating misinformation.

I think when speaking with veterans helping them understand that it's really the same story. You have a government that promised you all something. Right. You know, services when you came home from war and they reneged. And it's the same thing that's happening. These Afghan translators and their families. It's the same thing.

I think that's a great point. And I think also that, I don't know if you guys know this, but in America we tend to be somewhat myopic. A bit. And we view everything through the lens of, well, it doesn't affect me now because I live here. But I do think whenever this country fails to live up to its most basic moral precepts, it does affect us.

And it does corrode whatever it is, whatever that little magic is that we think we were spreading around the world. And Lord knows, not sure it's magic. It certainly was instability at times. You know, we weaken ourselves when we don't live up to that obligation around the world. That's. Yeah. Let's actually be this gold standard that we keep saying we are.

Yeah. No question there. So that's, I mean, that's the next thing for us is just figuring out, okay, what's the way that we can maybe assist Safi and the groups like no one left behind. And I'm sure IVA and VFW and American Legion and all those other groups that are working towards this. That'll be the next thing. And by the way, anybody listening who has some ideas on that, man, throw them in.

I don't know where they throw them. The chat. Maybe just tell Elon Musk and he'll put them on Twitter. I don't know how they can get that through, but all ideas on the table, man, and let us know. Yeah. Best idea will be our Veterans Day wish. Best idea wins.

To Kara Mallard, Rob Christensen. Thank you guys. Always a pleasure to see you cats. It's been almost seven hours since I last saw you. Longest seven hours of my life. It hurt. We miss each other. It's so beautiful.

That is our show. Thank you very much to Safi Raouf for joining us on the program. Make sure to check out the problem that's airing right now on Apple TV Plus. We'll be back next week. Oh, we got, we got a hell of a podcast next week. I'm not even going to blow who's on it, but it's going to be a. Is it me again? It's to Kara and Rob.

So that's how you get on. All right. No, it's actually me again. Sure. Both of you and Safi. It's just a repeat of everything that we've been talking there. All right, guys. Good saying you.

We'll talk to you soon. Bye-bye. Bye. Peace. The problem with John Stuart podcast is an Apple TV Plus podcast and a joint bus boy production.