The Problem With Jon Stewart - The Messy, Beautiful World Cup with Roger Bennett and Tariq Panja

Episode Date: June 24, 2026

With the World Cup in full swing, renowned former collegiate soccer player, Jon Stewart, is joined by Men in Blazers founder Roger Bennett and New York Times global sports correspondent Tariq Panja to explore the beautiful game's messiest and most magnificent moments. Together, they examine the political circumstances surrounding this tournament, explore what it means to host the world's most watched sporting event in this political moment, and celebrate the joy that players and fans bring to the game no matter what surrounds it. Plus, Jon answers listener questions about soccer “falls” and golf course hecklers! This episode is brought to you by: SHOPIFY - Sign up for your $1 per month trial and start selling today at https://shopify.com/TWS BOLL + BRANCH - https://BollAndBranch.com/tws AVOCADO GREEN MATTRESS - Go to https://AvocadoGreenMattress.com/TWS and check out their mattress and bedding sale! Follow The Weekly Show with Jon Stewart on social media for more:  > YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@weeklyshowpodcast > Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/weeklyshowpodcast > TikTok: https://tiktok.com/@weeklyshowpodcast  > X: https://x.com/weeklyshowpod   > BlueSky: https://bsky.app/profile/theweeklyshowpodcast.com Host/Executive Producer – Jon Stewart Executive Producer – James Dixon Executive Producer – Chris McShane Executive Producer – Caity Gray Producer – Brittany Mehmedovic  Producer – Gillian Spear Video Editor & Engineer – Rob Vitolo Audio Editor & Engineer – Nicole Boyce Music by Hansdle Hsu Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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It's a Tuesday. This is probably coming out tomorrow. And you know what I'm doing today? I'm not talking about anything serious. I'm done. I'm done with these Iranian negotiations and reflecting pool shenanigans. I want to talk what I've been feeling lately. What I've been feeling the excitement of lately,

what's been running through my blood lately is this World Cup, this United States team that is making so far a really nice run. fine attacking football, fun attacking football, showing themselves to be really a quality side. And that's what we're going to do. We're talking World Cup. We're talking, and I'm not talking FIFA Peace Prize World Cup. I'm talking World Cup, World Cup, the teams, the stories,

why it's so important to us, why we love it. And we couldn't have two better guests to do this. We've got Roger Bennett, founder of the Men and Blazers Media Network, and Tarik Panja, Global Sports Correspondent, New York Times, and they're going to carry us through this World Cup frenzy. Ladies and gentlemen, I am struck by World Cup fever, as many of you are at home as well, and we couldn't have better guests today. We couldn't. I could tell you we could, but we couldn't because we couldn't get better guests. We could not get better guests, is what I'm saying.

You could, John. Slatton and Alexi were available. It's really all about the emphasis. That's exactly right. Roger Bennett, founder of the fantastic Men and Blazers Media Network, and Tarik Pange, a global sports correspondent, New York Times. Gentlemen, what the heck? First of all, Roger, it is such a delight to have you on the program and to see you by your iconic map. Well, weather map. And Tariq, to have you in your iconic fleabag motel.

That's about right. Wherever they're putting you up. I don't know what the New York Times budget is for sports reporting, but. I need your help. I don't know, man. You tell them. You tell them, Joe. It's good to see you both.

John, it's good to be with you. It's not often, both of us are with a footballing icon, 10 goals, 12 assists for the William and Mary tribe. Oh, you got the stats. I mean, everybody, everyone's talking about it. When they think about you, they think about you as like, the man you are, the conscience of America. But I think more people know you as just that hard-hitting midfielder and the coach Al Albert, an iconic legend. The man who really made football. go in this country.

No, that is special. Now, Roger, I do want to explain. You've got beautiful legs because I've seen the photos. You've got an incredible pair of like, when you look at those legs, what do you think? I called him getaway sticks back in those days. Roger is quoting my college stats,

10 goals, 12 assists. The only thing that I do want to say in soccer's defense, that was over 20 years. That's as long as a World Cup. is now. It took me a while to accumulate those stats is what I'm saying. I know, but you're going to know when back in the day when we all started doing this talking

about football in America and we'd think about guess like it was you. It was like... Kyle wrote, is me and Kyle Rote Jr. And that was it. Me and Ricky Davis and Mucci Mironick and that was about the end of it. And Primo Levy

and yeah, we can never get Roet, but you were. You were like an early, early, early, early lover of the game in all seriousness. I loved it. I was raised in a town where it was very much Italian immigrants, Polish immigrants. They brought soccer to central Jersey, imported it. You know, that was the thing. We had, you know, there's a famous bridge where I grew up

in Trenton called what the world, what Trenton makes the world takes. Will take. Tarik, didn't you do your research on this? Guys, I've kind of. Look at Rogers. Roger is running circles around us right now. Well, I'm just thinking of Roger's making up American-sounding names. No. He is, can I tell you something?

He is nailing, he has clearly gone on some kind of William and Mary Soccer Wikipedia page. What are you talking about? This is like, when you meet Pelle, when you meet Maradonna, you don't have to research them. You know because you've lived it. I'm watching you under Al-Albert. I want to know when you do look at those photos, because the shorts were short, the thighs were popping. They were. Roger, it was a different style back then.

I know, but it was very, I mean, I don't know if you can pop it up on this podcast because it might not be safe for work. But I look at them and I think, God, that is beautiful. That is incredibly American. They were solid. I also think, man, death comes for us all.

Like, we're all going to die. Oh, my brother. Let me tell you something. When I look at those pictures and I look at myself now, I think, why do I sleep in a meat dehydrator? That's such a mistake. That was such a mistake on. on my part.

Tariq, he's not even, it is true, he's not doing, you know, research. He probably remembers our famous match against Longwood. Don't get me started. 1982. And the coach L. Albert. And coach Alba.

He knows the three names. Tariq. You're like bleeding from your mouth. You're like, coach, pull me back in. How do you think, when you think back to those matches, do you believe American football soccer has come a long way. As you watch the American team play,

do you see advances in our style of play? I find it fascinating. I remember the days when our best player was always the keeper, whether it Brad Friedel, whether it Tony Miola. And now we're playing an attacking form of soccer, Tariq. Is it hard to see this from the Americans? Do you fear us now?

Are you fearful of our squad? Do you fears? The Germans will fear. In a word no, but it is exciting. It is exciting to see. How about in two words? No, and not really. Look, I think World Cups are great when the hosts are doing well.

And you've got here, you've got the US, Mexico and Canada, and they've all kind of shown up. And I've got an apology to make because on our podcast and on the daily before the tournament, I said, this is not a good football team. and there is a huge amount of egg on this face right now because they really showed up. At the time it counted as well. You know, we were playing possum in all the qualifying. We weren't showing ourselves to be who we truly are.

Well, and Potts is into it. Roger, the coach, who seemed to be trying to get another job? Many jobs. All the time while he was the US manager. He was trying to sort of get a European team, I felt like, what do we call it, a come and get me plea. That's right. And now, I think after that second game against Australia,

he showed a level of emotion that I'd not seen with him and this US team. He was really, really into it. He's talking about the coach. For those of us, you know, our podcast is generally dealing with nuclear negotiations through Iran. So I just want to explain to him. He's referring to the famed coach of the American squad, an Argentine legend Pochitino.

On local news across America they call him, his name's Maricio Pochitino they call him Coach Poach. That's right. Coach Poach. Coach Poach is going through many emotions.

He did want to leave. Look like recently he wanted to join the Irvin Police Department when he saw they have Tesla cyber trucks. But oh, we can drive one of these. He has to go inside. But he's having an extreme

makeover himself. He's started to start to dress in like 1980s game poacher cool he's growing his hair out like like russell crow and he's having the time of his life we're all having the time of our life which i think is what football is about look this u.s team has not been very good our women's team kicks ass takes names is a dream team our men's team has been and new listeners who are like why is that english guy saying wait like i love america like kenny powers loves america yes and we embrace you by the way I'm not sure. I'm not sure that's really true, John Stewart,

but I won't have you say nice things about me on this show. The immense team have been like a dream on team, and we've always wanted them to be great. They've won one knockout game in our entire history, going back to George Washington, and if you've not followed, suddenly in this World Cup, they're playing a bullion, swaggering,

buccaneering football, albeit about not the greatest opponent so far. It is, it's like watching Matthew McConnell. I was trying to work out what is it like this shot, this surprise, this wonder. It's like watching McConaughey just rom-com it, phone it in, maybe he'll do Texas chainsaw massacre,

and then suddenly be like, sod that, you know what? There's an inner greatness that lies within. Dallas Byers Club. Yeah, this is our Dallas Buyers Club, John Stewart. Can I tell you something? I looked at that when I saw the Americans play, I thought to myself the same thing.

This is a team. This is all Dallas Byers Club. losing weight to portray an AIDS patient. And aren't they doing it supremely well? We are the kings of own goals right now. I mean, the one thing I will say this, look, you know, American football is always, and I'm hearing people all over say,

oh my God, they took Paraguay and Australia. Can we win this whole thing? And I would like to say right now, for the record, no, we cannot. But why would you say? say that, John, that's rational. And sports or fandom is purely ridiculous and emotional. I will tell you, I was in Seattle where that game was. We did a live show before

the thing with Marshawn Lynch. Oh, I love Marchion Lynch. And there were 5,000 people there. They were out of their mind. They come from all over America. They brought their kids. They were making memories. We then marched to the match. It was like, if you've watched a movie called Ferris Bueller, you'll remember like the German day period. It felt like just a crazy, a bullion cacophony. It felt like Mardi Gras

but like football themed. And all the matters, ultimately, I think about all of this in this very dark world of ours, like people are having release, sense of connection, sense of memory making, sense of hilarity. And yeah, I think the, I mean, Tariot will

know this better than I did. What is the odds? The percentage chance of America winning is like 2.94%. Mm-hmm. Letting yourself believe. leave. It's 100% is the whole point. That's exactly the percentage I know, Roger. By the way, it's the same percentage

Iran had with us in the war and they won. So, like, maybe we're going in the wrong direction here. Maybe we can pull this off. Hope Springs Eternal. But the thing about... Thank you, Tariq. These tournaments, it's the journey. It is fantastic. This is my favorite part, to be

honest, of the World Cup, right at the start when everyone arrives, particularly these fans from, God knows where, all over the place. And it's an expanded field. Let's also be fair. It is now 48 teams. So it is a messier tournament than we've ever seen. And you're finding those teams that have, you know, a Cape Verde or something like that where Hope Springs Eternal. But it is a larger field than we're accustomed to watch. Yeah, this is, to give you a sense of the scale of this, there were 64 matches for the entire tournament in Qatar four years ago or three and a half years ago because it was in winter. you need 72 matches just to get through this first group stage. So more than guitar just to get into the knockout.

So we're kind of drowning in these World Cup matches. It's an ultramarathon and we're all getting runners' nipple. Roger, do you enjoy the expanded format? Do you enjoy the messiness of it? And let's be fair also. Are you asking me how my chafing is, John? I've got chafing. How is your chafing?

It's 48 teams. There's only, I believe, 60 teams in the entire world. We're getting close to just everybody being in the world. Yeah, William and Mary. William and Mary is 61. You will be getting, I promise you, the crazy part of this is that everyone coming in was like, you know, Cape Verde, this tiny team, like, you know, Carousel, this tiny team of 120,000. They're going to get absolutely obliterate. It's going to be an embarrassment.

They've been bloody good. They've been, part of what you could say, part of the story of this World Cup, Cape Verde, this tiny archipelago of islands off the west coast of Africa. Africa, 600 miles west of Senegal. I know all this now. I didn't know it six days ago until they took the field against Spain, the World Cup favorites, and held them at arm's length with a goalkeeper who was stunning, a 40-year-old journeyman nobody, Vizenia, held them at bay, made save after save, cried at the end because his mother was not able to enter because she couldn't get a visa.

he came on our show that afternoon and told his story beautifully, powerfully, nobly, humbly. He immediately, but at the beginning of the day, had 29,000, this is like a double A baseball player, America, if you're listening. He, by the beginning of day, he had like 29,000 Instagram followers. By the end of the day, he had 10 million. He now has 15.7. He has more followers on Instagram now than Wembe and the Homes.

combined. He has more followers than the Pope. This is what the World Cup can do. People have always entered the World Cup to become influencers. Yeah, and probably, John Stewart, your mind is already. What does he do next? It's already now. I'm thinking to myself, I've got to go back and play again. Folks, we've all got great ideas rattling around our heads about businesses. I've got an idea about a business where you make really good socks and you put them on your feet and they're really well-made and really comfortable, and then for every one of them, you, like, give something away. That's my idea. I don't think anybody's doing it. But that's what I want to do. But if you got a business idea and you want to make some dollars, there is a company that can help

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Has it been Cape Verde? Has it been Curacao? What's been your favorite underdog story of this World Cup so far? I think it's hard to look beyond the story Roger told about Vazinia. But Corosal as well, getting a point off Ecuador.

Stunning. And like, you know, you say these names, Ecuador Corosau. Like, Ecuador is a big footballing nation. They were very good in qualifying in South America. And again, one of my predictions, which haven't come true just yet. There's still time that Ecuador will go deep in this tournament.

They are stacked with great players who play at top European teams. And you have this team from Curacao. But the other kind of story for me, I think, is the story of us, of people. And these teams are populated by the diaspora as well. As a member of a diaspora myself, you know, my family is from India. I'm English, your kids are seeing representations of themselves in all of these countries.

And my love for the World Cup goes, and all of us probably, Rod, your first one, mine, you know, when I was a boy, the World Cup every four years, the scarcity of this thing, these are moments of your life. You can date yourself, you can place yourself in all of these moments.

Now, there's going to be children somewhere who are learning about Corriceau, who are learning, Roger, a man child, is learning about Cape Verde. And, you know, I got a call from a friend of mine in Mexico, an Argentine friend.

His son is all over the Democratic Republic of Congo. That is the project he's decided to do at school. That's amazing. And he said, call him, please call him, and he'll tell you all about them. And I don't think there's anything like it.

I genuinely don't think, just there's nothing like the Football World Cup, not the Olympics, not anything that we've been able to do up until now that can match the picture of this. And I'm just seeing these pictures, like, you know, obviously the Scots in Boston. Drinking us dry. The Koreans in Mexico City. Like, all of it is just. The Japanese cleaning up the stadiums.

Everybody's learning. It's beautiful for Americans because, and it's hard for Americans to understand the importance of the World Cup around the world because it just has. hasn't really, it's not our national sport, or though it's rising, certainly in popularity. But we generally, for Americans, we learn geography by whoever we're bombing. You know, we now we know where Kabul is and, you know, war is God's way of teaching Americans geography. But the world embraces a different form of community in World Cup. It's about that competition, but also interaction.

And Roger, isn't that what makes this the most magical of times? Because the countries travel with them. I mean, I think that it's been very profound in our context. I mean, to see the world love America in the most joyous way, in the most profound way. But what Tariq said is, is true that it's once every four years. It does make, my life, I feel, I wrote a book about it, we are the World Cup about, I can tell my life alternately by World Cup to World Cup, it is the spine of my life, the most profound memory making.

That's for me, and millions and millions of human beings around the world. What we're experiencing in the here and there is when we feel most alive, because the world's coming together, human beings under conditions of great pressure, are defining themselves, revealing themselves in, like, as epic Greek heroes with a script acted out live. But this World Cup does have that added dimension that I think is incredibly profound, which is, well, two things for me, the story of my life, John, is America falling in love with global football.

1994, the last Men's World Cup was here. It was meant to turn us overnight from like Captain Kirk in space, the final frontier, to a proper football-loving nation. It wasn't overnight. It's taken time. But it was profound. That 94 World Cup in America. was profound in how it changed the way.

And the fact that we went and went into the knockout round was a big deal for us. In stonewashed denim, it was beautiful. But before that World Cup, I wrote my book that there was a study taken about favorite sports in America. And soccer was 67th. Tractor pulling was 66. The economist has just done a study that found out that soccer is now America's third favorite sport. I was just on A-Rod show. And he kept being like, when's this soccer thing going to take off?

I was like, Arod, it's third now. He'd be like, well, where's baseball? I'd be like, oh, I've got some bad news for you, man. It's number four now. But, you know, the other side of that is the football world falling in love with America. And two things are very profound. Like, watching Lawrence, Kansas, open its heart to the Algerian team, there's just levels to that of openness and revealing your sense.

your heart, your soul to the world, and the world embracing us back. And I will say in this context, it feels so good. Feels so good and needed. And the world fully in love with things we take for granted. But I've always looked at as an outsider who's been embraced by Buckees.

When you do go to a Buckees, it is a life-changing. A waffle house smothered and covered in lemon pepper wet. To watch the world. We take these things. We take getting in a fist fight at 3 a.m. over poached eggs.

granted. Yeah, what do we fight for freedom for, if not that man, smothered and covered every time? But the other point is very true, and I want to be clear, the embrace of football fans, Scottish fans, I watched that with an equal Marvel, John. When we were growing up, and in 1978, World Cup, 1990 even, the English fans were put on an island off Italy so that the police could contain them, because football fandom was far more about a zero-sum game, based on hate. People went to the games. The Hooligan era.

Yeah. To watch the Scottish fans, to watch the Norwegian fans, to watch the fans embrace each other. You know, it's beautiful. It's needed. It's an open,

it's a world where the boundaries are porous, the love is the World Cup of Love. It's fleeting. I won't be clear. I'm under no illusion. No question. But it's deeply profound. We had Diego Luna,

the actor on our show the other day, and he was talking with a marvel about watching the Mexican fans just fall in love, this fusion of Mexican and South Korean fans. And he's like, he's like, what's happened to us? We used to, you know, proper fans used to just fire rockets at the opposing teams hotel at 3 a.m. in the morning. Now we're just embracing them, holding them, hugging them.

I like the old way, but the new way is, we need the new way. But you know why that is too? And I think it's this. And Tariq, maybe you can speak to this. I think there is a thirst in the world. the governments are so at odds with each other, the rise of this kind of autocratic nationalism. There is an air of tension and sort of imminent catastrophe.

And it's a reminder that people are not their governments, that the people are actually, they connect on levels of humanity and empathy. And this game, if it does anything, is bring that to the four. Yeah, I was just going to say that. It's my sort of trip around the US, and I've been in Tijuana as well with the Iranian team because they've been kind of exiled in Tijuana.

And just on that first, the way the Mexicans and the Tijuanaans have taken to the Iranian national football team is just magical to see because it wouldn't have happened but for the awful circumstance. But then people take over. Every day in the morning and at 4 p.m. when the team's going to go and train, these people line up at the gates. These Mexican guys appear to celebrate this Iranian team. And then some of the Iranian diaspora come across

from southern California to meet these guys. And it makes everybody feel warm and special in this moment. And then looking at the US itself, I was worried. I'll be honest with you. I was worried about this World Cup. I was also worried about myself. Like, from I'm based in England, I look like this. I was going to come over and I thought, yeah, this is going to be interesting. What will immigration at the airport be like? Will I be in that room that I sometimes have to go in? Or will I get sent? But like all of these things, because this is the kind of vibe. It's the moment in this country. Yeah. And from the outside as well, like I've covered a lot of World Cups. And the, the, The thing with Qatar and Russia, these were countries that were desperately trying to tell you that whatever you're reading about us, we're not like that, even if they might be like that. It was like, let's put the best possible facade on, if it is that, and make everyone

feel more welcome than they could possibly have imagined. But the posture of, I guess, the US government to the world has been very different to the past, i.e., we're kind of closed. the World Cup is happening in a country that kind of doesn't like the world right now. So this is going to be... Or the reverse. The world doesn't particularly like us right now. Yeah. Like, yeah. Like, do you want the hordes of these foreigners coming in? And do the foreigners feel comfortable coming in? So it was a really, really odd sensation before. And you've just nailed it as well. Like, people have taken over. It isn't a government event.

But isn't that always the contradiction of sport? And Roger, you know, look, it's the beautiful game. And yet it's run by maybe the ugliest bureaucracy. You know, FIFA is, in 2015, these guys are, you know, there's an enormous scandal of bribery, set bladder, you know, FIFA officials from everywhere are going to jail. It's very clear that Russia and Qatar and who knows about the United States bought their World Cups, move people around.

Is it the frustration, Roger, sometimes, of a game you love so much, a game that is so unifying that is so easily, at times, corrupted by the ruling body that runs the sport and the countries that try and dominate it. And how do we separate that out? I don't know if we do.

It's like cognitive dissonance. I mean, when you were talking about the emotionalism of this experience and the people taking over, You could say the same thing with the Knicks, John. Wait, don't, hey, watch yourself. You were there, man. You were there. John Stewart was there, Lebes from William and Mary. In the streets, baby. I was in the streets.

I mean, you watch that, you watch side tour, you watch all of that, and the human ecstasy and the memory making and the profound cross-generational wonder that's galvanized. You know, no one's stopping in that moment and be like, what do you think about the owners? what are you think about the family that are running it and what they're doing? It's just like, I mean, you know what you feel. I can't tell everyone's their story that their dad's not here. In those moments, you're like, my dad is not here to see this.

I wish my dad was here. You know, my friend, you know, I've great friends who died very young, huge Knicks fans, you know, and their friends wore jerseys that they've given them back in the day when they were kids, you know, going to. Football is, both deeply rational and hyper, hyper, hyper emotional. And this is the pattern.

Look, Tariq, we were in Brazil together in the run-up to that World Cup, and it was doom and gloom catastrophizing about the, we were there for the social unrest the year, but you were held at knife point. You know, it felt like darkness was about to rain. Were you really, Terry? Not during the tournament, but yeah, I had my Brazil experience. Yeah, yeah.

I was, I was, I was, I was mugged in Lagoa. Wish you young men well, whatever you're doing. I mean, that's ultimately it. Football, more than any sport, it's tremendous power is that it holds a mirror up to the world that surrounds it. That's honestly the thing I've always loved. And the World Cup more than anything, John, is when two teams take the field, their nation's histories, their nation's cultures, their nation's politics take the field. It's not like this, when the San Diego Padres play the, you know, the Chicago. great game of baseball, but there's

levels to this. And as a kid, the levels were always profound and remarkable, magical, even when they weren't England, Argentina, in the shadow of the Falkland Wars, Germany against France, you know, when France was still recovering from its post-war identity, all

kinds of historians and narrative that had heft. The world's just gotten so much darker. And so the stories have gotten darker. I mean, it's still a mirror. We may not like the image. image of ourselves that we're seeing, of the complexity of the, I mean, the Iranian, how the Iranian football is a team. And the teams reflect it. Yeah. How many, France doesn't exist

as a world power right now without their story of colonialism because those French players and there is always that tension of who is actually French or who is actually of that country and the players not necessarily feeling the love from the people that, you know, it really is deep. And it will happen again and again, and that's the sad truth of this. I remember Meza-Ozil, the German player who won the World Cup.

Great, great, attacking midfield player. And he had this quote. He's from a Turkish background, and he said, I'm German when we win, but I'm Turkish when we lose. Right. And I think he nailed it.

And to your point about how can you separate these things about FIFA and the World Cup and all of this thing? I have a lot of people asking me, given what I, write about is often the kind of dark crevices and the naughty corners of the game and said well how do you how do you still enjoy the world cup and i don't just enjoy it i absolutely love this thing i do um and my it's a really simple answer it's ours it's not theirs like the world cup is

is everybody's it's it's just got this fifa logo on on the thing but it is this moment in time where we all own this thing and we all have the right to enjoy it. Whether you can afford a ticket or not, you just have to go out in the streets. Those people in Lawrence, Kansas, they will have the best World Cup experience imaginable.

They might not ever set foot in a football stadium. And this will be happening all over the place, also in homes all around the world. There'll be kids staying up, allowed to stay up very late in the middle of the night. And they'll be talking about it, bleary-eyed at school the next day. This is our thing. Yes, there is a FIFA stamp on this, and FIFA is many, many things.

But the tournament is everybody's. Hey, listen to me. I know a lot of you folks out there. You love companies with composite names. Joined by an ampersammed or a plus sign, whatever it is. Well, you're in luck. Bowl and branch. is what's happening in the world of sleep.

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slash T-W-S, code T-WS, to take 20% off exclusion supply. I want to ask you guys, because it is, how did, you know, Roger was talking about the NICS, and I can remember how the NICS imprinted on me when I was six years old, seven years old. How were you imprinted? where where did your first sort of memories of joy and love and family and community and soccer come come together tarreek i'll start with you and then roger for me um it was everything

so you wake up you have a ball in your hand you're at school and you're waiting you're just trying to get out of that class and then play and then i was about five five or so i still remember it's a grainy memories, right, of that World Cup in 86, which was in Mexico. And I remember being taken to an uncle's house. When you're Asian, an uncle's house means a lot of people. And it was near where who's got the biggest TV. And there's only one TV. Like these days, that's the other thing.

Right. This second screening and multi-screening. It's kind of taken away something and headphones and all. of these things where people aren't as kind of, you're almost forced to watch together, whether you like it or not, you might not. Right. This is pre-cable with the little antennas that stick up and move around, and the TV is wider than it is tall and, you know, deeper than it is wide.

And you've got this guy who is both a hero and a villain in Diego Maradonna. Yes. This is, this complete one-off. And what he did to England? in 86. I just don't think there'll be two moments like this. You can't script this stuff where he has jumped into the air and hand of Goddied the opener. Yes. They called it the hand of God. It was really just the hand. It's brilliant though. No, it was brilliant. By the way, he not only did it, Therite. He then in the post-match interview, they said,

did you handle the ball? And he said it was a little bit, the head of Diego, a little bit, of God. That's genius. He was a genius because the next thing he did just leaves you slack, George. Are you talking about the goal where he basically takes it? He ran from the halfway line. It was crazy. In this beautiful sunlight in this stadium. And it's just magical.

So the next day, guess who we're all calling ourselves? We're all Maradonna in the playground. Either we're trying to do a hand of God or... Or you're going through a hand. everybody. We're trying to do this. Yeah. I absolutely fell in love with this tournament, with these people, with this game, all of this. And it endures despite everything, to be honest. And it has levels where it connects, you know, Maradon. And now we watch Argentina today. And Messi is touched by the hand of God. Here's a man who's 39 years old, who's played

is obviously one of the most prolific scores that the game has ever seen. He's, can't be more than 5-5, like Maradona, has this incredible sense of the goal, and has put away five goals in two games. He scored every goal for Argentina in the run of play. Without ever running. The penalty kick that he was given, he misses. Without ever breaking into a run. Without ever, right.

It's just, it's like the closest we will ever get to watching someone with Jedi powers, just mind-melt. It's really, remarkable. He's the figure more than any that America. He's bigger. in America than the game of football itself. The Maradonna thing was amazing because the Falklands War came before.

So this was a, he didn't just do it. He did it in the context of geopolitical chaos. And I think a lot about it. Like he cheated. He punched the ball in, listeners. You're not allowed to use your hands. And then minutes later, while we're all howling in agony,

he cheated, he cheated. Essentially the equivalent of a kickoff return through the whole team, our whole heroes, eviscerated all of them. Afterwards, one was interviewed, said, why don't you try and kick him? He said, we did. He was just that fast.

He looked like he was moving at double speed. I mean, if you get a chance to go on YouTube or whatever to find the goal, it's remarkable. And the commentator, the Argentinian commentator find his translation. He was cosmic kite. He screams as he does it. It's beautiful. I went outside as a kid. I'd just see my hero.

He was emasculated. And I just got, I was so angry. By the way, Maradonna could have done the second goal whenever he wanted. He wanted to cheat us. to the show us, I can eff you this way and now I'm going to eff you that way and I can do both because you are my whatever insert word there.

And I went outside, 15-year-old me in agony, my heroes had been eviscerated and I took my football, soccer ball and just drove it, I wrote about this in my book, drove it right through the front window of my house in agony and my dad who was, you know, quick to anger himself, just looked

at me as the glass tinkled down and he goes, I understand, Roch. I understand. And now I have on my wall in my office, I have that framed handball signed by Maradonna because I'm grateful that I saw it. I felt, and this is the point, John, ultimately, I'm dead inside, man. The world has killed me.

I am confused and lost and unmoored. But when I feel these things, when I see Messy do what he did yesterday, I know I'm feeling things that most people feel in real life I'm dead to, and I'm feeling it with millions of. other people. We are paying witness. This is your conduit back to the living in many respects. I don't know if it is. I'm like Matthew McConaughey behind

the bookshelves, man. I'm just there. What's going on with the book? You're going through the whole McConaughey Uber here. It really is. You know, I mean, some people have the Bible, and I think McConaughey's hit every single human emotion. I love like the rom-coms, man. How did you come to it

though, Roger? How did, you're 15 in the 86 World Cup? But When did you first, like with Tariq, when did it first imprint itself upon you that this was something special that was going to be in your life? Oh, God. I'm from Liverpool. I'm from Liverpool. Liverpool football is like Indiana, high school basketball, Texas, high school football. It's like.

Oliver has made me a Liverpool fan, by the way. Oh, John. That's what he did. John. Listen, I made him a Mets fan. He made me a Liverpool fan. Is this true? It is.

Man, if you're a Mets fan, John, you should be a Mets fan, John. You should be in Everton. I don't want to tell anyone how to live their life, but you like pain, you like joy that's fleeting. You like hope. You're like doomed hope. You're like, oh my God. Doom.

Doom is the operative word there. Yeah, so come on, man. Come with me on this journey to misery. Come with me, my friend. Come on. Take my hand. I've got to talk to you after about this, John. This is not the way.

But we'll pick them out. Look, so it was in Liverpool, football music are like air, water fire, man. So they're just there. My dad chose Everton when he was a kid. We often used to say, would we be different if we were a Liverpool fan? And we won things. He'd be like, we'd be unbearable. We wouldn't appreciate things.

We wouldn't appreciate it. You have to not win. He wouldn't call it losing. He'd be sometimes not winning is important. And he'd say, when you do eke out something joyous, you just have to dance like your own kid's wedding. I think the truth of life is in football or sports fandom. you've just lived it as a Knicks fan man.

But first World Cup, 1978, it's where I start my book. Football in England, when I grew up, was muddy pitches, violent men, a backwater. You'd go with the games. I'd go with my dad who was a decent man, you know. We'd routinely step over broken, bloody bodies on the way to the game, men just holding their hand out, asking for help, their teeth smashed out by a brick. Right, because they wore the long scarf. Yeah, and you wouldn't even, like, look at them.

You would be like, oh, yeah, there's just. Your brain would just be like, oh, there's another broken body. Yes, you'd step out. Excuse me on the way to the game. Just carnage everywhere. Like, you just see police horses charging people with iron bars. I've seen men punch police horses. Craziness.

Seen it all. That's four. Is that because the horses were rooting for Liverpool? I don't, I never asked the horses. The wrong scarf on. Yeah, the wrong. Yeah, lad, you're going to get it. That's what happened.

So that's my culture. And then 1978, the World Cup was in Argentina. We didn't have much live football on in England either. It kicked off. And the first game, we tuned in, huge stadium, thousands and thousands from the bleachers, as the Argentina took the field, the fans threw toilet roll,

thousands and thousands of toilet rolls, cascaded down confetti, joyous. And my mother, very practical, turned around to us and goes, take a toilet roll to a football game, love. But I turned to my dad. And I was like, oh my God, dad, football can be joyous. It can be fun.

Who knew? And the dark side of this, John, because I know you're a dark man and you want darkness. And what I give to you is that 1978 World Cup was run by the military hunter to try and they hired an American PR company. What was it, Burston Marsteller. Oh, that's right. They did a paper called, What is True for Products? are so true for countries. And Henry Kissinger was hired

to publicly proclaim, now the world will see the true face of Argentina. Oh, right. And even then, watching this, that's the dissonance that you want, man, that you're talking. Even then, 1978, there was a human, that people were being thrown out of planes at the same time as

we were watching, you know, Argentina win the World Cup. No, that's a remarkable juxtaposition there because I think you're absolutely right. And so in that same moment of the darkness, and I think this is kind of what we're talking about is, you feel the hope if we can just break through those hierarchies and structures that are holding everything back, and we get to suddenly touch each other's hearts during these things.

And I know that sounds ridiculously overwrought and maudlin, but it really is true. And I tell you this, watching the Knicks in the street, game five, and thinking back to the first time I was at the garden in the early 70s in the nosebleeds, watching the Knicks and the Celtics, going to those games with my son, being in the street with my son, with my wife, with my friends, feeling the streets. I'm telling you, it was, it was, I am not a religious man, this was spiritual. It's so funny, man. It's wild. John Stewart, I'm a horror. Horrible man. I moved to America in 1993 September. Two days I landed in Chicago, second night, breaking news, Michael Jordan's retiring. I felt terrible. Like I'd done it,

like guilty. And then I watched the ball season, the Michael Jordanless ball season before he came back in Tony Kukot, Scotty Pippin. The one year we thought we could win the jury. Yes. Yes. You were like, yes. And by the way, I didn't know, I'd never watch basketball before, But I became mesmerized, this balls team. They had a centre, Lute Longley, who was from Australia. He and I arrived in Chicago. At the same time, neither of us really seemed to know what the hell we were doing there. And I loved him, and I watched him.

And then we played the Knicks in that epic battle between, it felt like to me good and evil. Like, I still have nightmares of John Stark's puby mustache. Wait, who was who? For me, I'm going to be honest with it. I was Popper Bowls, yeah. And I watched John Stark's destroy his puby mustache. and three nights a year

I will wake up in a cold sweat like just John Stocks like a Cheshire cat just the moustaches left and I'm like oh my God that was Anthony Mason what an athlete he was Oakley turned the Benedict Arnold basketball

That was in the days of the brute They were bruiser's Yes and so they beat the crick We were valiant But you beat the crap out of us And I hated that Like really really really hated the next I'll get to my point here

I'm a horrible person I carry that hate in my heart the older I get, you know, my kids, I'm a New York person now despite my accent. The older I get, the more I'm just like, you know what, whatever gives you, my kids are all huge Nix fans. It's like my worst parents in. I can't stand it. It's really, it's really upset me. It's like really dark and my wife can't understand it, but it really upsets me.

But even I, John, this is my point, watching them, you know, feel that joy, feel that connection, feel that memory making, feel that. that sense that everything is possible. It's not kids listening to this. It's not, everything isn't possible. But even me with my dark heart, I'm so happy for you. But once every 53 years, something like that is possible. So happy for you. I'm happy for you, John. Tariq, have you ever had that in your rooting life? Have you ever had that feeling of deprivation and the deprivation suddenly going to the mountaintop and feeling that, you know, the distance between the two making it sweeter like that. What's been your history as a fan?

Is it heartbreak? I'm kind of a fan of the sport, I'd say, these days, rather than a fan. What are you, Elmo? You won't kick aside? I'm not, I'm not going to. But what I'd say, I live recently, I just had this magical experience as what I wanted talk about. Like, New York and London have both had these moments a few weeks apart. And I was watching what's happening in New York from a distance. I'm not a basketball guy, a New York guy, or a Knicks guy, but it felt very familiar watching this. I live in North London where Arsenal play.

Go on, you gunner. And I must say, whichever neighborhood it is, and it doesn't matter which country. I was in Argentina recently reporting as well where you have a lot of neighbourhood teams. When the neighbourhood team is doing well or something is up, it's in the air, there's just a different little sparkle, different little magic.

People are looking each other in the eye, smiling. I don't have to say, maybe even a little nod. Then Arsenal hadn't won the league in 22 years. And they're not an Everton, sorry, Roche. They are one of the bigger teams in World

football, but still, 22 years, there's generations of people who haven't seen this team lift the Premier League title. And they did. And the parade in our little corner of, it was honestly, one of the most magical afternoons of my life, to be honest. I'm not a fan of Arsenal as well. This is the point. Joy is infectious, man. Joy is infectious. It was amazing. More than ever, we need that joy, Therie. We need it. We need this. We do need this stuff. And the thing that I just marveled at was I'm seeing like women in hijabs, everyone, all sexual society, there's a guy with a pint, a woman with a hijab and they're singing the same songs. The streets were packed. Every type of person imaginable was there communing in this one spot, this one day. When the number 19, when the number 19, was stopped, going down Blackstock Road and people pouring on, the bus driver was infected with this joy.

Yeah. Not like, guys, I'm on my route here. What are you doing? Get on board and a party on the bus full of everyone. It's the bus. But not just there, not just there, Tariq. It was across Africa, man. Across Asia.

You saw massive, massive. But I think the point, and the next, we need the joy more than ever, man. This is why, though, the FIFA Peace Prize is so meaningful. You know, people look forward to that FIFA Peace Prize being given out every year because of what soccer football brings to the world. Wake up! We got a lot of interesting things going on here. You cannot fall asleep during the podcast.

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You know, how do we, I get angry at myself for not being able to separate them. I don't think, I don't think we should be annoyed. And I think we should be able to carry both thoughts. Yeah. And it's really, it's really important. to hold these guys to account. I mean... Well, that's what you do.

I mean, Terry, you do better than anybody. I mean, that's so much of what you're reporting is. Well, it's because it's really important because we've just spent the last 48 minutes or where I can see the countdown. So about about that time. I'm talking about how great this sport is, this thing humanity is produced is. And the fact that these guys are able to... I don't want to use the word govern, but kind of take it hostage in a way,

is something that should not be allowed to pass. There are good people in football, but the lack of accountability over the most popular human pastime, this thing that stirs all these emotions, the things that bring all of these politicians or dictators and governments to want to like cleave it towards themselves. It's something that is super important. But is anyone, there's zero accountability over these people. Well, 2015 really was a moment of accountability.

I mean, even for someone like Michelle Plotini, who is a legend, a player and a legend being held to account. Absolutely. But, you know, you talked about this. That was a huge moment. You're seeing the most powerful football executives being yanked out of beds at 6 a.m. a luxury Swiss hotel, obviously, and then being taken out, perp walked, taken to New York,

and we have the biggest scandal in sports. And here we are 10 years later. And the film that I think of every time when I think of FIFA is Terminator 2. The kind of, that villain who couldn't be killed, the other Terminator. T-1-000, I think he was. called where he would just reformulate into exactly the same. Roger doesn't know that if McConaughey's not in it. If McConaughey's not in it, he doesn't know what's happening. If it's not a McConaughey film, I'm not interested, man. You know, I'm trying to add to me.

By the way, John, I am sitting here trying to think which McConaughey film shows you how to have cognitive dissonance, but hold two truths to be evident at the same time. And I realize all of the, even the rom-coms do that. That's probably true. That's probably true. But Tyree, now, so like you say, 10 years later, they've dropped the investigations into FIFA. They've stopped them, you know, right now the cozy relationship between FIFA and Trump. Our Department of Justice has dropped all investigations.

Well, I was thinking about this and looking at when Trump came in. A couple of things happened. I remember being a conference and seeing the news saying, the Foreign Corrupt Practices Act isn't something the U.S. care about. So foreign corruption, yeah, we're not, we're on into this anymore. Just to read that headline was pretty stark. Well, he also made an announcement that it was okay if companies in America bribe foreign officials for business. I mean, explicitly saying, hey, man, that's just how things are done. So if you need to bribe people, knock yourself out.

Yeah, it's like a level. The others are doing it, so we're going to be left behind if we don't do this. And then the other thing they said is like, kind of this type of white-collar crime is not a priority for the DOJ. And what is the point of these organizations or what is the point of the DOJ if you do not want to tackle? I think revenge. I think the point of the DOA, if I'm being clear, I think it's revenge. So great for those guys. Yes, exactly.

And, you know, and then you have, for me, I've kind of, it's. been the backdrop of my career, basically. And you see all of these people have been arrested and taken away, and a new group have come in. And slowly, and then very quickly, they realized, you know, and you're like, oh, if I cross this line here, will anyone notice? No one has. And then that line gets so far away from where you've started that it is a free reign. There were things bought in like term limits. They were like, yeah, we're going to have to have good governance models, term limits. All of these guys are bashing through their term limits.

Term limits. You know, this is fantastic. We're just honourable people. Why do we need term limits? You can trust us. And then the model isn't to cater to fans like Roger or yourself or the teams or the players. FIFA is beholden to 211 Gianni Infantinos, other football presidents. And what do you do, what do you give them?

You give them gifts. Right. You give them a peace prize. Peace prizes to Trump, but also to the football. Because you wonder who's going to change. Why is football not asking for change? Because I'll give you an example just now. The day after the opening game in Mexico City, where all of the football world were invited.

So presidents and the senior hierarchies of each of these national federations, come to Mexico City, stay in a lovely hotel. and come to the opening game of the World Cup. And you think, okay, that's great. But that's not all you get. Then get on a plane. We're going to fly you to Miami. Five days at the Ritz Carlton in Miami.

Enjoy guys. And guess what? Gianni and Fantino is going for re-election next year. Just remember that while you're here. Who supplied all of this? Wow. And it rolls on and it rolls on and on. We have more uncontested elections in football than think about your worst dictatorship.

We just don't have a conversation, a debate, all of these things. Like my phone might have a bunch of WhatsApps from upset football executives. And I always say, well, why are you telling me this? Why don't you just say it? Because they're all enjoying themselves. $300,000 a year for three Zoom meetings. It's not bad, is it? I'm mad, but I don't want to stop the gravy train.

Correct. There's so much gravy on that train. The tracks are so slick right now. Look, I hate to draw the analogy, but it's not that different from the United States Congress, to be quite frank. I mean, it's a group of people who are no longer answerable to the constituents that they purportedly represent, and they're sort of enjoying this separate world that they've created. It's a kind of impenetrable bubble. And I wonder, Roger, do you ever, you know, as you're going around this world, how do they view you?

Because you're such an asset to, especially, not just around the world, but in America, to the fan. You're bringing this game and really evangelizing, right? And so I imagine they view you as an asset, but I also think they probably know they can't control you. So how do they view your platform and what you bring? Who's the angel? FIFA. The people that control the head of Qatar, Putin. I mean, you'll have to, I mean, God, Putin is on our Discord, very active on the men in Blazers Discord.

What's his username? At Vlad 3237. Vladdy Daddy. It's always Vladdy Daddy. Yeah. You know, ultimately, I mean, what Tariq's laid out is the cognitive dissonance. It is a, it is, how do you get out of bed in the morning, John Stewart? Like, how do you function in the morning? How do you do anything? It's hard and the world is, is complicated.

I think about, and have from the very beginning, we start off as one podcast, we've grown this thing into the whole network that has, a whole women's platform has a Hispanic platform Vamos three different communities so what I think about is nourishing them I think about what the game brings to them what watching together brings to people's life I think it's you know

John Oliver comes on our show every year it's my favourite moment in the year because he's I think about this a lot work on this a lot and he just kind of breathes is in and just does it so much better than I ever could. Without bare.

And by the way, you don't pay him for that, right? I mean, that's not a paid, that's not a paid appearance. Oliver, Oliver demands huge, huge, yes. Private planes. We're not allowed to look at him in the eye. He's like that with us. Same thing. Spoiled.

Yeah, I know, he's difficult. He's difficult. He comes on because he just loves football, man, loves Liverpool football club, but do not go that way, John Stewart. But every year, every year, you know, at the end of the interview, ask him,

ultimately there's an old cliche in football, which has been warmed up a lot by a lot of different people. Football is the most important, least important thing. And I always do wonder whether there's a moment in time, whether being a football fan, because I do, I think about fandom, I think about experiences,

I think about memories, I think about the shen. Football for me has become more important, the more challenging everything becomes because it is, in all seriousness, where even fleeting joy, fleeting sense of deep, profound connectivity, a lot of the good stuff can occur.

And I do always ask him, I'm like, is there a point where it becomes almost like we're fiddling while Rome is burning by watching football? And I will say, he's like, well, no one ever talks about whether Nero was a really good fiddler.

He's very, very good. I don't think it's bread in circuses. always. I don't think it's necessarily government's ways of distracting us while they do the dirty work of what they do. I think it's actually a way of people acting out community rather than distraction, that it's reminding us that those people are fleeting. You know, Jesse Owens in the, in the Munich Olympic, you know, when he showed Hitler, What was what? You know, these are the kinds of things.

I've taken a very different view of it. I agree with you, Roger, like, there's a certain party where you feel like, oh, this shit just doesn't matter. It's just stupid. But think about Lawrence, Kansas. Think about how people are responding to learning about different cultures for the very first time. It is unifying and grounding in a really important, in a really important way. and the more we resist those evil forces co-opting that beauty, that's part of the struggle.

I know this sounds ridiculous. I know I am sounding ridiculous. I couldn't agree. I think I want to be clear. I think it's become more important. I think it's more important than ever sustaining this community, not take it. I mean, this is the motto of everything that we do.

Do not take a second of watching football together for granted. I mean, it is, it's become the most powerful thing, this conversation with fans, these sense of feelings, these sense of active memory making. So that's kind of how I approach it. You know, I don't spend the second John thinking about what people think about me or like how am I said. It's like, there's no good energy that comes out of that, man. So I'm just trying to focus on, I'm trying to, you know, do good things with really good people. people put some sense of positivity, a sense of joy, a sense of activity. There's so many great things that we're watching.

The Vazinia story, the goalkeeper, it's tenacity. I mean, tenacity is probably the greatest human value, I think. Resilience, yes, yes, yes. So these are the things that I spend a lot of time thinking about, a lot of time, trying to articulate, a lot of time trying to story tell. And that's how I approach all of this. You know, I was at this game between Jordan and, in Algeria yesterday here in the Bay Area where this prison cell is.

Yeah, that looks like actually a motel three. I don't even think that's a motel six. I got talking to these Jordanian fans outside the team's hotel there. And they said, you know, we are all over America. It's such a big country. We are everywhere. And they came from Dearborn, from New Jersey, from other parts of California. And they said, you know, we've never had a moment ever where we've all been able to come together.

This qualification for the World Cup has bought all of these disparate Jordanians. So this is just one example. There'll be 47 other examples of this. It's a focus for the diaspora. To San Jose, outside the Hilton, hotel where they're chanting and probably ruining some businessman Zoom meeting while they're waiting for the team to come out. And I just thought it was just a very, very interesting and important moment to realize. What else can do that? I'm not sure there are many other things

that can do this. And here we are. And we got a few more weeks of this to enjoy. So let's enjoy it. What is the final? July 19th? Is that where we're talking? That's right. So how does this, so let's, we're going to move into the knockout round. Let's play out a little bit of who's advancing, where we're going to go, and we'll wrap up with a little, not necessarily speculation, but a little predictive. Is this very much like the kind of March madness that Americans are used to where you'll get a Cinderella here or there? But ultimately by the end, it's the Blue Bloods.

It's going to be France. It's going to be Spain. it's going to be maybe Netherlands, who's playing remarkably well, don't know about Germany right now. Argentina. How do you guys see this? Where is it going to go?

What might be some of the surprises? The honest truth is we don't know a lot. Every team's played twice. It's an enormous, it is an ultramarathon, this thing. It's a massive bloated tournament. The Germans have a notion for a, you don't want to peak, too soon. They always believe you want to be a tourney a manshaft at like a tournament team that

finds their rhythm, finds their way, finds their... Wait, what is the name they have? They have a tournament. They have a name, John. They really do. I just found out they have a name, a thing for internal monologue and anxiety called Koppf Kino, which is the cinema that plays inside your head. Oh, wow. Which means like you're lost in your own mind, which I love. A lot of McConaughey in your head. They have a name for that. A McConnell. That's me trying to get out of the COP keynote. Yes.

It's to invasion you're in a McConaughey. Understood. Ultimately, teams will reveal themselves and knockout around their true self. First game, you don't really know, second game. Ultimately, they need to. It's like you played, and I'm going to lose your younger viewers, there used to be a game called Punch Out, where you'd be Mike Tyson fighting, you know, better and better opponents.

That's what the World Cup is. It's just a game of Punch Out. until we get to the open water of the knockout rounds we don't. Now, I'm rooting for a US Cape Verde final. It is the joy of this tournament, that these tiny nations. They're like the St. Peter's Peacocks, whoever they were in, when was it, 22? Bad news bears.

Yeah, these teams, everyone, everyone now, they've all had access to not just training and coaching, but the other thing you were talking about diaspora earlier, Tariot was talking about fan diaspora and diaspora coming together. and colonialism. Like, the reality is, in France, Paris itself has like 73 footballers represented. They're not just stocking the French team. They're stuck in the Senegalese team, the Moroccan team.

Right. Germany, the blurring of boundaries in. Balogun, even in the United States. I mean, they're, you know. God bless. It's incredible coming from Africa, coming from Europe, coming from Asia. I mean, it's amazing. And so these teams, even the tiny teams, have access to true talent pools

of footballers that have done far more than if it was truly just a representation of like people who only grew up and play football in in Cape Verde. So it is magnificent. I'm thrilled for the little teams, I will say, to see Cape Verde's name on a scorebug by Spain, to see Currasau's name. This must fail. I've never been to either place, but it must feel absolutely just like an epic national achievement, not just sporting, but in their nation's history to see themselves,

refracted hit. An epic even in defeat. I can remember it might have been, maybe it was 2002 when the US played Germany. We lost 2-1. Oh yeah. We lost 2-1. Okay. So 1-0, I think. 1-0, I think. Oh, it's your show. Keep going. It's your story. I thought we lost 2-1. John is sure. What does it even matter? It's your memory isn't matter. We lost 8 to 4. Yeah, yeah. I remember that game. I remember that game. But what it was, we actually dominated play for a good portion of the match. And this was for an American team that had always been defined by its goalkeepers. We'd always been defined by, you know, we would form the turtle shell and we would have Brazil come at us and take 25 shots.

And if we got out of there with a one-nil loss, this was the first time I remember watching the American team. team against what you were talking about, that top shelf, world quality, and have moments of actual dominance, possession-wise, everything. Yeah, there was a German that handled the American shot when it was going in on the line. Torsten Frings, name him and shame him. He handled the ball when the ball was going in and the referee did not see it. It's a human agony. And it's the closest we've come. We would have been in the semifinal. And, um, Ultimately, this is the one place.

It is something to think about for your listeners. If the American men do become good at football, it will be the end of the game of football for many fans. It would be like when Deep Blue beat Gary Kasparov at chess, it'll be like sod it, the machines of one. We have nothing to hold over them. Because right now, I want to say this, they know, like they laugh at us calling it soccer.

That's so funny. Because we know that we recoil. We're like, oh my God, do we not meant to call it that? In England, the biggest shows on television are called Soccer A.M. Soccer Saturday, they use the word, but they also know that we are so, like, slightly inferior. We're so superior in so many things, or we act like it. But we're very inferior in men's football. And the world loves it. Everyone laughs at this. And they know that we know that they know that we know that we know that we're bad at it. And they love every time an American announcer uses the word pitch. They take a great, they take a great pride in the fact that they are forcing an American into this four. foreign vernacular that sounds so contrived coming out of our mouths. And to the Lalas Latan, the Lalaslatan. I'm convinced it's a roncom. Alexei Lalas and Slatan is pro wrestling.

It's a symbolic battle for the future of civilization. It's not just about two guys in the studio. Oh, God, I don't want either of them to win. No, Tyrion Reed from the sidelines. Yes, that's what we want. We want, that's what we want on there. But, John, I have a good feeling for the US. I think they're on the good side of the drawer, if there is a good side.

So there is a chance that pathway opens up here. You mentioned 2002. I think this tournament has a little bit of the hallmarks of that one, where Turkey were unfancyed, the US were relatively unfancy. There were teams Senegal. There were teams making runs. This tournament reminds me a lot. of 2002 and there could be a journey or two for people or teams that we're not thinking about.

However, I think the final on July the 19th will be two heavyweights. I think there's probably no question there. But here's what I will say that we haven't brought up yet. And this is not to flatter you both. Alliance. They have a deep, talented Harry Kane at 32 years old still shows. he has the finishing capability to carry a team. I mean, in this year in the Bundesliga,

not to suggest that's anywhere near the Premier League, but to have that. And in Champions League, he had more goals than games even. How much football are you watching, John Stewart? I'm watching it. I'm watching it right now, Roger. I'm not even actually paying attention to this conversation.

I'm actually watching through my screen, Siri A. Yeah. That's right. I'm watching whatever Milan team they want to throw at me at this time of day. I'm watching. Do you know how many Premier League teams are going to be making offers for you to become a co-owner in the wake of this? It's just amazing. I'm there. I feel like Tarik and I just tools for you to buy into to Bournemouth AFC. Up the cherries.

West Ham West Ham are up for grabs and here comes John Stewart. Oh, and by the way, Weston, what a remarkable little story that's been, yeah? I mean, the whole thing is I love it. But I also know, and this is through Oliver, that nobody breaks your heart like England will break your heart. But I'm telling you this year, I see something there, Bellingham, Kane, I'm telling you, there's something there that's special. And I think if they could put it together,

they could be one of those heavyweights, standing at the end. standing at the end watching Donald Trump hold up the World Cup trope you know I'm feeling you I'm feeling you job

it's just it's very hard to it's very hard to say it out loud this is this is a very very good football this is a very good football team however I'm not sure the English people are capable of

being World Cup winners I don't know how we're going to handle it so maybe you do know how that you do know It won't be good. It won't be good. I don't know if it would be good. Did they rejoin the EU at that point?

If they win, did they just go, we're back? I think at this moment in time, glorious failure is probably probably the right thing to happen. All right. I'm not, I'm not, I mean, I'm not an England fan, but you do know how, I mean, I grew up in Liverpool, which considered itself a republic like Monaco or Lishenstein or whatever. Like, like a socialist republic. Like, there was, when I was a kid, Liverpool was trying to cede from the rest of England and become a Republic, which was just so insane and amazing. So like Liverpool people, we

didn't cheer for England growing up. It was like it was famously, like we're in the north. Liverpool was, England was like a sudden symbol. And at the same time, just that I felt for them, even though I'm like very much Team America now,

I felt for them like my dad, the desperation, the hunger, the desire. In 1966, which felt closer to 1066 to me. The desperation, it is. If anyone still listening to it. The Norman's lost 1-0 in 1066. We should have had them until the arrow went into the eye.

I'm not fair. Hand of God. Yeah, all of that, all of that, all of that is fused. The arrow going into the eye, the handing the ball. It's the end of empire. But it is amazing. England, if you're still listening, it's like Charlie Brown kicking a football with Lucy holding.

Like something does always go wrong. But John Stewart, if England win a World Cup now, on American turf in the 250th anniversary of Independence. It is, you know, Tareep, there will be rockets fired out of anuses that aren't meant to contain rockets, but will look magnificent all over this nation. And God, I'm not sure America's ready. I'm not sure America's ready for that, the new month. I love it.

Gentlemen, I can't tell you the pleasure I have taken in this conversation. I'm loving this tournament. I'm loving both of your coverage of this tournament and just big fans. Roger Bennett, founder of Men and Blazers Media Network, Tariq Panja, Global Sports correspondent to New York Times. Guys, thank you so much for being here. Thanks for having us.

Thank you, John. And when you do buy West Ham, just... You have a spot in the owner's box, my friend. No problem. Tickets half-priced. Tickets half-priced. Big, big laugh. One drink, though.

One drink ticket. That's all. Thank you. Thank you, guys. Guys, I want to thank you both for listening to my men's encounter group session. I loved it. It's great. I really, that's out of all the podcasts I think we've done, that's the first one where I think almost all the guests cried or almost cried.

And the producers cried. I cried. Talking about the families and the my father and the way that he work in class. Because it really is how it all it connects in such a deeper sports, music. They connect on these levels beneath the surface of language and everything else. Do you guys, are you guys huge sports fans? I'm a really big sports fan. Yeah.

You are. Yeah, I know you like the Giants, so you know pain. San Francisco, by the way. San Francisco. To be specific. I totally am. I'm like a huge sports fan. No, Brittany's not.

She's not having it. Have you guys been watching at all any of the World Cup stuff? Or your fandom hasn't moved into soccer yet. I always get so into the World Cup. There we. I'm that cliche of somebody that's like all of a sudden, every team too. I'm like, this is my team. Cape Verde.

I love these guys. It's awesome. And it's also, it reminds you coming off of our Knicks experience. And I know we all shared that in the city. But it is, there is a mini-Nicks experience to be had. in the city all the time when you go to these pubs that are showing Premier League. I'm not even talking about just World Cup. You can, it's, you visit these other countries.

It's the funniest is when the pubs are on the city too with the Premier League. It's like 8 a.m. And these guys, they've had a couple. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm convinced that's why they're watching. They blame it on the time difference, but it's really not. You go to England. It's 8 a.m. Very convenient.

No, they were there. And I love how Roger is just like, you know, I'm a sad man. I'm an anxious man. I'm a nervous man. But I love football. You know, like, and then he just lights up. It makes him human, he says. Yeah.

It makes the whole thing. And I love that they said, like, we need this. We really do. It's actually, I mean, that's why I keep getting so misty watching. It's like, it's, we really need it. We do need it. Because it is, you know, when you think about just the, the deck. and corruption and inequality and the thing spinning out of control and to have something like this

that still belongs to the people, whoever owns it, whoever runs it, it still belongs. And it's, it reminds you of those moments. And I hate to, again, like, throw them on there, but it reminds you of Hungary tossing out Orban. It reminds you of, it reminds you of the power that still exists in the population. That's what I love. Yeah, it's the unity. There's an ad that's been running since like before the World Cup started, I think it's Airbnb and I think it's Claire Daines that's doing the voice for it. But it's like when the world meets and it's like you needed, you know, Jamaica to bring their sound systems to England to make punk music. And before the World Cup, I saw that ad and I was like, this is so out of touch with like what's going on right now.

And now the commercial comes on and I'm like, that's exactly right. Claire Dane. That's all right. We do need that. Thank you, Claire Dane's. Brittany, what do they want to know from us this week? All righty. What do they want? What do they want from us? John. Why are soccer players so overly dramatic when they are knocked down or kicked?

It's an excellent question. I was a soccer player for many years. There is a layer underneath when you play soccer, a layer of nerves that go through there. It's like, do you remember the game operative? separation. Yes. I'm awful at it. Put the thing in there. And it doesn't seem like much. You just have it's a little, you have yourself a little and you got a bone and you put trying to put the funny bone into where the elbow is. And you think to yourself, well, I just touched that side. I didn't,

I didn't bang into it. I didn't hurt it. But what, what happens? They're not, they're not faking. We're just, we have overly sensitive, electrical impulses. that go my favorite ones are the ones who are like clearly on the replay like not even touched like they literally just decided like I didn't even touch the side but it's time for me to do I'm going to say three forward rolls and then go on my back as though my lungs have come out of my body yeah it's funny too because sometimes they'll do it and I'll be like oh my god and then they'll show the replay and I'm like I would be out of commission for six months if this happened to me like I I get it.

It is, I mean, overly dramatic, yes. But there are, as Gillian says, like, it's a very physical game. Yeah. Especially the way they play it in like Premier League and all that. Like, they're not playing the beautiful game of like Spain and ticotaki and possession. Like they're running through people. Which version was William and Mary? I played, I actually went to the hospital one night after a game.

We played Old Dominion down at O'Don. to you down in Norfolk, Virginia. And it was on their field night game, and both teams were very, there was a heated rivalry there. There was a fight on the field in the middle of it. And I was a forward and one of their backs, I can't remember, it was a wingback or centerback, basically went through me on a contested ball from the goalie. And I didn't think anything of it.

And then after the game, I started pissing blood. Oh, my God. And, like, was in the hospital for a week where, like, I couldn't move, like. Did you even get a free kick? Like. Oh, we certainly got a free kick off the play. And I finished out the game without even realizing it. But, like, you know, they'll mash your organs.

They will mash your organs at the point. That's insane. My back could never. Oh, mine couldn't either. I didn't, I, trust me. Yeah, we're not built for the pitch. No. It was a bad scene.

But, but, but, uh, what, Boy, do I miss it. Boy do I miss it. Old man. Old man glory days, for sure. What else they want? What else they want? All right.

John, what advice would you give pro golfers now that heckling is showing up more on the course? It's a great question. You have clubs. If you're in, and let's be honest, let's be fair about this. When you talk about heckling showing up in the course, in Long Island. I know. It doesn't, golf has played all over the world. The only place it shows up is somewhere outside a sciacet.

Like, you know, it's only Massapequa that shows up. It's so embarrassing, guys. Get it in a fucking hole, you jackass. But there's nothing that I think, you know, and depending on the size of the heckler's head, that an iron or a wood. I mean, that's really what you have to do. You have to talk to the caddy and just say, is this the type of dude I could take with the putter or do I need to go full wood?

Yeah. Easy to take care of. Not a problem. Very nice. Is that it? Is there any other beautiful? I can't tell you how much I enjoyed talking about sports this time and that I didn't have to read any fucking books to do this.

Normally I have to read the books. We're off on the next week, but how can they get in touch with us, these people? Twitter. We are weekly show pod, Instagram, threads, TikTok, blue sky. weekly show podcast and you can like, subscribe and comment on our YouTube channel, The Weekly Show at John Stewart. Very nice, guys. Thanks as always to producer Brittany Mehmedevich, producer Jillian Speer, video editor and engineer

Rob Betola, audio editor and engineer Nicole Boyce and our executive producers, Chris McShane and Katie Gray. We'll see you, have a great week off. I'll talk to you guys soon. Boy. The weekly show with John Stewart is a Comedy Central podcast. It's produced by Paramount Audio and Bus Boy Productions. Podcasts.