The Prof G Pod with Scott Galloway - What Happens Next With TikTok? Should I Quit My Investment Banking Job? and Scott’s Advice on Being an Older Dad

Episode Date: May 29, 2024

Scott breaks down the latest TikTok news and predicts what its future looks like amidst the impending ban. He then answers a question from a listener who works in investment banking and is feeling extremely overworked. He wraps up with advice on being an older dad.  Music: https://www.davidcuttermusic.com / @dcuttermusic Subscribe to No Mercy / No Malice Buy "The Algebra of Wealth," out now. Follow the podcast across socials @profgpod: Instagram Threads X Reddit Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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NMLS 1617539. Welcome back to the PropG Pod's Office Hours. This is the part of the show where we answer questions about business, big tech, entrepreneurship, and whatever else is on your mind. If you'd like to submit a question, please email a voice recording to officehours at profgmedia.com. Again, that's officehoursatpropertymedia.com. First question. Hi, Scott. Love the podcast. I found you on TikTok, and as a fellow TikToker with a healthy following of 1.9 million, I wanted to ask you your thoughts on TikTok. I used to have a lot invested in my TikTok. It was one of my main sources of income. But a few years ago, I could see the writing on the wall and wasn't sure if either the US government would get rid

of TikTok or if TikTok itself would one day just decide to kick me off the platform for possibly no reason, as they seem to have done that to many creators. I put a lot more time and focus into YouTube and in the last two years have grown my YouTube from zero followers to 1.4 million. I found I'm making more money over there. It seems a lot more stable, and overall, it's a really great audience that seems to have a lot of fun. I'd really like you to talk about your views on TikTok and what you think is going on, especially because that's how I found you and absolutely love your podcast and think it is a super, super valuable resource.

Thanks, Scott. Keep up the great work. So Anonymous, you should have told us who you were so we could get you to 2 million on TikTok and 1.5 million on YouTube. First off, you must be very talented. I mean, I think of myself as a decent creator here. I haven't got you know

jock shit on these platforms compared to you you must be very talented so well done so first up just on tiktok it's been in the news a lot recently um a brief recap in april president biden signed a law mandating that by dance sell tiktok or divest it or else the app will be subject to a nationwide ban. TikTok responded by suing the U.S. government, saying it violates users' First Amendment rights. Additionally, TikTok and ByteDance argued that divesting within the last 270-day timeframe was simply not possible. The latest news as of today, the DOJ and TikTok have urged a U.S. appeals court to speed up its review of the legal disputes concerning the potential ban. The DOJ, along with TikTok, ByteDance, and a group of content creators, asked the U.S. Court of Appeals for the District of Columbia to decide by December 6,

allowing enough time for a possible Supreme Court review before the January 19 deadline to sell. Okay, so a few things here. The court case will come down to the arguments of First Amendment, which is very powerful, free speech. You're not supposed to get in the way of people like yourself, creators, expressing their views. There isn't, in my view, or at least there hasn't been peer-reviewed research showing, is this true? I don't even believe this. I think there's a ton of research showing that TikTok is influenced by the CCP, but opponents of the ban will claim that they're still, you're trying to prove a false negative, that there hasn't been any definitive proof here. So let's give them the benefit of the doubt. So the two legal arguments will be, you can't get away in

the First Amendment. And before you inhibit someone's free speech, you have to try and find other remedies. The counter will be simple. It'll be a question of national security. And we limit free speech all the time for national security. We even have laws that you can't own more than 25% of a broadcast station because we don't even want concentration of speech. And Rupert Murdoch had to become a citizen. This is equivalent, in my view, in terms of the risks of letting the Kremlin own CBS, NBC, and ABC in the 60s when we're in a cold war. We're not in a cold war with China. We're in what I would call a cold peace. We weren't the second largest trading. Russia was not our second largest trading partner in the 60s, as China is now just behind Mexico. We have

economic interdependences there, but it's sort of a cold peace, if you will. And that is, we do seem to be directly undermining each other in economic ways. Not like the Cold War, where we were shuttling arms to anyone who was killing people on the other side, but it's sort of a cold peace. But imagine if we had decided to let the Kremlin own NBC, ABC, and CBS. We just wouldn't have. And I think it's the same here. Why? Because young people see the world through the frame that is TikTok and a little bit YouTube. I think there is evidence that someone has their thumb on the scale of the TikTok algorithm. There are 52 pro-Hamas videos served for every one pro-Israel video. And you think, well, Scott, that's because young people have sought out their own media sources and are trying to bring visibility to something they feel passionate about. Okay,

fair enough. Let's go to the control group as we do in any decent research. Let's go to reels around other topics. When you go to reels, Instagram's reels, and you say, okay, Uyghur genocide. There are 600 times as many videos on Instagram Reels talking about the Uyghur genocide or around free Tibet than there are on TikTok. It's very simple. Just ask yourself, what would the CCP want? If China can't beat us militarily, which they can't, they can't beat us economically, which they aren't, then why on earth wouldn't they go after this amazing Trojan horse called U.S. propaganda vis-a-vis the ultimate tool where they've implanted a neural jack into the wet matter of all of our youth and are dialing up content that divides us internally?

This is exactly the right strategy and what our PSYOPs division of the Army does in other nations with Radio Free America, Good Morning Vietnam, Radio Free Europe. This is what we do. These wars are fought over public opinion. Now, here's what I think is going to happen. I think this was absolutely the right move. I think that the court will find in favor of the White House or specifically the U.S. claiming that, okay, the national defense threat here is real, the national security threat is real, and they will uphold the president's order and give him the right to ban TikTok if it is not divested. And then as we get closer, right now, you can bet

on anything and you can bet on this. Right now, the line is 70-30 government to bite dance, meaning they think there's a 70% likelihood the government is going to win this case. I think as we get closer to the case, it's going to become 80-20, 90-10. And then on the eve of the case, I think they will come to some sort of agreement. For all the posturing, I don't think that the CCP wants to lose a quarter of a trillion dollars and their propaganda tool. The propaganda tool is off the table. I think it's going away, but they'll say, well, if we're definitely going to lose the propaganda tool, we don't want to lose a quarter of a trillion dollars. And I believe they will come to some sort of accommodation that makes the White House comfortable and where ByteDance gets to keep that quarter of a trillion dollars. I don't think your TikTok is going to go away. I think this will end up in an agreement.

The agreement logically could be reached much more easily because it's the White House dealing directly with Beijing. I think that is going to happen. Now, as it relates to your situation, my brother, you're not only talented, you're smart. You're diversifying away from one revenue source because there's geopolitical risk there to another, and you are growing. You're diversifying your revenue stream. I think it's fantastic what you've done. You're obviously a very talented person. You're diversifying, you're smart, and you're exceptionally talented. Congratulations. It is good to be you. Question number two. Hey, Prof G. It's almost 3 a.m. and I'm still working. I'm a first-year IB associate at a bulge bracket bank,

and I've worked 17-hour days for 12 days straight, which is the same number of hours that a B of A associate consistently worked before tragically passing away last week, despite being only 35. I've heard rumors that some banks are taking small actions, such as 2 a.m. caps or protected weekends, but I haven't personally heard any senior bankers address this issue, and I don't feel optimistic that we'll see any meaningful change in the current investment banking culture. I'm curious if you have any thoughts on what it would take for the industry

to change and what junior bankers can do to advocate for positive change. Thanks for taking my question. I'm a huge fan. Wow, that sort of rattled me hearing that. Okay. So some context on the Bank of America associate you referred to. Earlier this month, a 35-year-old banker who was reportedly working more than 100 hours a week died suddenly. According to the New York office of the chief medical examiner, the junior banker died from a blood clot since an executive recruiter who spoke with him about seeking a new job has come out and shared that the banker had wanted to leave Bank of America because of the grueling hours. Two weeks after the death of the 35-year-old banker, a 25-year-old Bank of America trader died suddenly of cardiac arrest while playing soccer at a company event. However, it's not clear whether work contributed to his death. Okay, so a couple things. One, by virtue of this podcast and by virtue of plaintiff's attorneys and by virtue of the fact that Bank of America seems to be a common phrase in these stories, you can bet that B of A, if not already, is going to freak the fuck out justifiably about being subject to pretty serious lawsuits and two, a reputation for being just a shitty

place to work. I have mixed views on this. I think that an organization, not an organization, an organization isn't sentient. An organization doesn't care about you. People should care about you. And whoever your bosses are that are letting you work to the point of exhaustion to where it's really impacting your mental and your physical health, then quite frankly, that's not B of A. It's those people's fault. Whoever is the VP that you're or the VPs that you're reporting into, whoever runs your group are not decent people. And for them not to notice the type of hours you're working, assuming what you're saying is accurate and I have no reason to believe

it isn't, then it's not a bad organization. These are bad people and it's a bad culture attracting bad people. So what I would suggest is you go to your boss or you go to HR and say, this is just not sustainable for me and it's having a real impact on my outlook and my health. And they will freak out as they rightfully should, because if someone else drops dead at your organization or is hospitalized, they will have to disclose that people were notifying and complaining about it. Having said that, what can you do? What should you do? Find another job. You're privileged. If you got a job at an investment bank, it means a couple of things. It means you're talented, and it means you're overeducated, and it means that most likely, and I don't know this, you had a decent amount of privilege growing up. Maybe you didn't.

Maybe you overcame all those obstacles. I was an investment banking analyst at Morgan Stanley and I worked a lot. And I leaned into that because I wasn't as good as my peers. It's not a humble brag. I just wasn't that educated or well-educated, not because UCLA wasn't a great school, but I didn't work as hard while I was in school. So every Tuesday morning, I used to go in at 9 a.m. and I would stay till 5 p.m. on Wednesday because I was physically fit. I didn't mind it. I could do it. And it sort of was my way of kind of establishing my commitment at the workplace. I was living at

home with my mother. I didn't have a girlfriend. I didn't have dogs. And I was actually physically quite capable of it. I'm not suggesting that's the right way. I'm just saying for a brief time, that was my way. If you have the kind of options you likely have, and this is really taking a toll on your mental or physical health, then you need to find another job. Because waiting around for the culture to change your investment bank is going to, you know, it's going to take a while. So that's the bad news. I don't know your personal situation. I don't know your financial situation. But if it's really taking a toll on your emotional and physical health, then start interviewing. One, tell them,

do you have a mentor there? Go in and say, this is just too much for me. And they'll either make accommodations because they don't want to lose you or they'll give you a bunch of jazz hands, at which point, and I would even think right now, you should start thinking about another job. Most jobs, they want you to work hard in the financial services industry. The markets are strong. The employment market is strong. Also, and I don't know if this is still the same, but it was an abusive culture when I was there. You had to be there before anyone senior you showed up, you couldn't leave until after everyone else was gone. They took pride in assigning you a bunch of work on Friday, so you'd have to work all weekend. It was definitely kind of an abused children's syndrome. I was you might be able to scale it back. This might be a temporary thing. And also, this is a free market. The reason why a ton of young people are killing for jobs at these investment banks to work their asses off is because it comes with certain benefits.

Specifically, they're very high paying. It's a great brand on your resume, and it opens up a lot of opportunities such that you can make money and maybe work less hard when you're older. So I'm of two minds here. Appreciate the question. We have one quick break before our final question. Stay with us. Welcome back. Question number three.

Dear Scott, in four days, I will be 37 years old. Welcome back, question number three. born later when my dad was 40, and that meant I grew up with a little more economic security, but it also meant I got less of his time. I've got economic security, but I'm afraid for how much time in my own life has passed. What has your experiences as an older dad taught you about being a good father? Do you ever think about how old you'll be when your kids get married? Have their own kids? What advice would you give the version of you that existed five years before your kids were born? Shaquille. P.S. I'm trying to fix the housing shortage in my own community, and I found your TED Talk inspiring. I've watched it once a day for the past five days. This question is inspired by watching you barely hold back tears while talking about your kids. Shaquille, first off, thanks for the kind words.

It sounds like you're in a great spot. Let me get this. You're 37. You're in what sounds like a great relationship. You're thinking about getting married. You're thinking about kids. You have some economic security. This is the mother of all good problems. And I had my first kid when I was 42. And everything's a trade-off. I would like to be a great grandfather. I just get the sense, I hope and trust, and the reason why I work out and take supplements and do all this shit is I would, and I don't smoke and I'm trying to train classes, I would like to be around to see grandkids. I'm not going to be around to see great-grandkids. I would like to be able to

play soccer with my 12-year-old grandson. That's unlikely. So if I'd had kids much younger, I would probably have been able to do that. The trade-off would have been, I was so immature, so economically insecure, I don't think I would have been a great dad. So it's a trade-off. But for God's sake, say you have kids at, you're 37, say you have kids at 40. People are living to 100, so your kids are going to be 60 before you check out. I mean, I just think this is a great problem. And I don't, you know, I think you should focus on your relationship. You should look forward to having kids. It's never the right time.

I find it's kind of never the right time to have kids. You just kind of, I don't know, pull the goalie and see what happens. You don't need to anguish over this. never the right time to have kids. You just kind of pull the goalie and see what happens. You don't need to anguish over this. You're going to have to be in a relationship, to have kids with someone you like, to have a good job, 40 years old and having a kid, that is the sweet spot. I mean, sure, it would be great to do it at 32 or 34. Yeah, my partner was 28 when she had her first kid. I was 42, she was 28. It's wonderful for her now that the kids are older, that she's a young mom and will probably be around. She probably will have great grandkids. Yeah, it just wouldn't have been a good idea. So you really, I was reading our Bill Maher, they did a write-up on Bill Maher in the New York Times this weekend. And he had this great quote. And it went something along the lines of, I can't think of anything more stupid than people focusing on what's wrong with their life instead of what's right. You're running at about, on a scale of zero to 100, you're running at about 95.

And to be worried, it's okay to be worried, but don't be anxious or upset that you didn't have kids earlier. You are in the sweet spot, my brother. Your best days are ahead of you. Thanks for the question. That's all for this episode. If you'd like to submit a question, please email a voice recording to officehoursatpropertymedia.com. Again, that's officehoursatpropertymedia.com. This episode was produced by Caroline Chagrin, Jennifer Sanchez is our associate producer, and Drew Burrows is our technical director. Thank you for listening to the Property Pod from the Vox Media Podcast Network. We will catch you on Saturday for No Mercy, No Malice, as read by George Hahn, and on Monday with our weekly market show.