The Psychology of your 20s - 11. The Psychology of Friendship Breakups - the fizzle, toxic people and forgiveness

Episode Date: September 16, 2021

In this episode we are discussing the psychology behind friendship breakups - why we need to move on from people, the types of toxic friends to look out for, the best way to breakup with a friend and more! Tune in for some juicy psychology and lessons for our 20’s.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I-Heart podcast. Guaranteed Human. 2%. That's the number of people who take the stairs when there is also an escalator available. I'm Michael Easter. I'm on my podcast, 2%. I break down the signs of mental toughness, fitness, and building resilience in our strange modern world.

Put yourself through some hardships, and you will come out on the other side a happier, more fulfilled, healthier person. Listen to 2%. That's TWO. percent on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. On the Look Back at it podcast. From 1979, that was a big moment for me. 84 was big to me.

I'm Sam J. And I'm Alex English. Each episode, we pick a year, unpack what went down, and try to make sense of how we survived it. With our friends, fellow comedians, and favorite authors. Like Mark Lamont Hill on the 80s. 84 was a wild year. It was a wild year. I don't think there's a more important year for black people.

Listen to look back at it on the IHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, what's good, y'all? You're listening to Learn the Hardway with your favorite therapist and host, Kear Games. This space is about black men's experiences, having honest conversations that it's really not safe to have anywhere, but you're having them with a licensed professional who knows what he's doing. How many men carry a suit or armor. It signals to the world that you not to be played with. And just because you have the capability that does not mean that you've done.

need to listen to learn the hard way on the iha radio app apple podcast or wherever you get your podcast hello and welcome back to the psychology of your 20s the very unprofessional podcast whereby we talk through some of the big changes and transitions of our 20s and what they mean for our psychology chow bonjour how are we all um lockdown week 5 baby just had an extension announced this morning so here we are thriving thank you very much Andrew Barr keeping us safe

as always but I hope you guys are all doing well wherever you may be listening lockdown or not hope the sun is shining that you're being COVID safe obviously and that something amazing has happened to you this week

I'm just going to jump right into it this topic the friendship breakup has been on my mind, taunting my dreams, quite a bit for the past month or so. But I haven't really been able to work up the courage to record it or research it, I think, for a few reasons. Firstly, it's insanely personal. And although I've talked about, you know, things like unrequited love and hookups and heartbreak on this podcast, this is the first episode where it would just be entirely natural for me to come off looking like the bad guy, which my ego obviously wasn't.

too fond of. And secondly, I didn't really want to do any injustice or harm to anyone who I was once friends with, who I have quote unquote broken up with, which we're kind of discussed later on. And I think, like, another reason I was kind of hesitant about recording this is it's kind of painful to look back at experiences like that. And I just don't think I was really in the right head space to, like, dig deep into past friendships, which were insanely meaningful for me, but which have now faded, fizzled. We've gone our separate ways. But yeah, I've made peace with all those things.

I talk to my therapist about it. Shout out, Josie. God, love her so much. You're the best. And she said it was a good idea, perhaps even a little bit healing. If I came out with a wise mind, which is her favorite term. So here we are recording in my car yet again, ready to bury some hatches, discuss the psychology behind friendship breakups and the fizzle and why that age old saying is true. You know, if you're not losing friends, you're not growing up.

So strap in for a great episode. I do just want to say before we get into it, this is not some like personal rant about people who have left my life. No bad feelings will be shared here. I just think it's a really interesting topic. And researching this has caused me to reflect on some of my own friendship breakers. cups and I think throughout this episode I was particularly reflecting on three friendships in particular that have all ended in the past year and I just thought there was heaps to learn in this often I think uncharted terrain yeah and I think I just received a lot of personal closure

looking back at some of those friendships thinking about what I could have done differently or maybe what I didn't need to do you know yeah I'll explain kind of my thinking behind it a little bit later. Yeah, and like I said, a lot of personal closure that I would just love to share. So in researching this episode, I read an article that had probably one of the best titles, and it really, I think, inspired how, where I kind of took this episode, the form that it took. So if you want to read it, its title was Friendship Breakups, the Most Untold Love Story. And isn't that the truth? Isn't that just a big cup of truth? friendship breakups or fizzles, they're just as serious and can create the same feelings and reactions

as normal breakups. You know, the loneliness, guilt, anger, awkwardness, the grief. Like, grief can be a huge component that I think is often underappreciated and not really too often spoken about. And I think friendships also contain just as much love as romantic relationships can and appreciation as well, if you do them right, of course, and heaps of studies have proven time and time again that friendships are one of the most important ways to enrich your life. They improve your well-being. They aid in the stable release of dopamine and serotonin. And they can help you, you know, cope with trauma, cope with things like your parents. I think friendships are just as important as a part of your social network as a relationship is. So I think that, yeah, they're just as important, but they

aren't always held to the same esteem. And I think this all has to do with how our society creates like an internal hierarchy within our minds of which relationships are more important and thus the level of emotions we're able to feel in those relationships and in response to them. So bear with me here. But in this hierarchy, friendships are not given nearly as much of importance, I think, as familial or intimate relationships. So, you know, friends are just seen as more plentiful and replaceable, which I think is entirely incorrect. You know, good friendships, stable friendships and lasting friendships are incredibly, incredibly rare. But we have been conditioned to place more emphasis on finding and keeping intimate partners. And there's a greater expectation

of suffering and grief when romantic relationships end, whereas that kind of reaction over friendships I don't think is as normalized or expected, which is a huge problem as to why we don't really talk about what it kind of feels like to go through a painful end with a friend. I think people often underestimate what a big deal it is for a friendship to end. And they can just be, you know, these breakups of sorts can be just as uncomfortable and sad as romantic endings. You know, I don't really want to stress this point,

but I just think it's so important. Like you can share a similar level of intimacy, memories, vulnerability with someone you will never romantic or sexual with. And when those relationships come to an end, there is an emptiness in their place because no one is entirely replaceable. And every individual brings something entirely different to your life, even if that friendship is no longer fruitful or successful. I had this actually with someone, like thinking of them. I had this for someone at the end of last year. And I think as much as it was important to no longer speak to this friend and essentially cut them off, there are times that I really miss them and I miss their presence because we did share a lot of memories and a lot of personal vulnerability.

So it was a hard conundrum. And I have had quite a few moments, I won't lie, where I've wanted to reach out, where I've wanted to message them, rekindle the conversation, talk it kind of about what went wrong. But I just realized that it is for the best that we're no longer in. each other's lives. And as far as I can see, they're really happy and so am I. So I think it's just best to leave it be, even though it's really fucking awkward when I run into them in Dix and Woolies. Yeah, maybe if they're listening to this, they'll know it's about them. But yeah, I think no one's entirely replaceable, even when you do know that those friendships aren't meant to last.

And like I said, as important as friendships are, romantic relationships tend to get all the glory. Meanwhile, the platonic ones, they're really undervalued, I think. And I read an excellent chapter of this book. It's called The Friendship Fix. We'd definitely recommend it if you're into this kind of literature. And it's written by this psychologist. Her name is Dr. Andrea Bonner. And this is what she kind of explains. Because there is not the weighty expectation of monogamy, which is often associated with romantic relationships, people have a much harder time ending friendships. So this was a bit confusing when I first read it. And I did think it was like a bit of a stretch, but this is how she explains it and it makes a lot more sense when you read more of

the book. So when you're in a relationship with someone and you're on a, you're in a monogamous relationship, a closed relationship, you have to break up with a partner in order to move on to someone new. So you, you know, you have to break up with them. It's an action that has to happen for you to move on to a new relationship. But in terms of a friendship, there is absolutely nothing stopping you from avoiding a friendship breakup indefinitely, putting off the confrontation and just hanging out with other people instead. You know, you can't cheat on your friends the way that you could cheat on a partner. And you can have multiple friends, whereas in relationships, we have that expectation of monogamy. So often what happens is we

end up staying in these friendships and prolonging them with, you know, little snippets of interactions when we should just be cutting ties. I think also unlike our romantic relationships, or, you know, however unlike our romantic relationships, in which there is kind of an understanding that things may not work out, and that's kind of part of the agreement you both sign up for, you know, the inevitability of a breakup from a relationship in your teenage years or, you know, in your 20s. It's understood. It's a dynamic of a romantic attachment.

But with friendships, we assume that our friends will be around forever. We expect that we'll be, you know, old people retiring together, beat each other's weddings, meet the family, meet each other's kids. So this means that if there is a breakup, we aren't just grieving the present loss of that friend, but also the loss of that friend in our imagined future. It also makes ending of friendships quite awkward and appears, unnecessary. You know, why do we need to break up with a friend? Why not just let it fizzle and let the debris settle? I think sometimes that's just not really a healthy option. Sometimes it's also

not the best way to avoid hurt. Like the last taste of your friendship should not be one of bitterness and resentment. So sometimes you do need to have that chat with them. You do need to talk to them and be like, this isn't really working. The same book I was reading, kind of grows into this a little bit more and it concluded that there were two main reasons why friendships end but I think I've added a third because I think it also deserves acknowledgement that's the fizzle so these are the three reasons the three big fat reasons why this psychologist believes that friendships end so number one something bad happens a betrayal circumstances that make you realize that you and that other person can no longer be friends. These are relationships that

end because of something really terrible, often resulting in maybe a big fight or something of that genre. It's not repairable. The fizzle. You just lose your chemistry with someone. You drift. That's that. No harm. No foul. No falling out. You have those friends you were really close to at some point. and now the conversation no longer flows in the same manner, and you both kind of recognise that you don't really have that same spark. And finally, incompatibility and values. Perhaps you were really good friends for some time, but as you've grown, your compatibility and values in life have changed,

or maybe your values really never aligned in the first place, and something has made you realize that, or just made you realize that you expect different things from each other as friends. and I think in general this is the most common reason. Friendships typically come to an end because there is a disconnect that one or both of you feel is beyond repair. It's not nasty, it's not a negative thing, you're simply going through different life transitions

that are going to take you to different places. And there's that age-old wisdom. My friend Lucy, she said this to me the other day. People come into your life for a reason, a season or a lifetime. And that applies to friendships, I think, more than any other kind of relationship. Think about all those people that you know from high school who are still friends with the exact same people.

There just has to be, I think, some tension and incompatibility in these situations. You know, how can you be on the same trajectory as every person in your life that you have ever shared a friendship with? People change. And stagnation is really. unhealthy. It doesn't allow your brain to move, grow, change, and it doesn't give you new experiences or new ways to learn with new people. Because if you're keeping all those people that you've always been friends with, there's no room for new people. There's no room for someone else. And that kind of

means it's necessary to shed old relationships to grow into your new skin. Like I said, imagine if you were friends with every person that you have ever shared a connection with. Like, it would be a fucking full-time job and more to stay in contact with all of them, to hear about, you know, provide support to all of them, to have to stay up to date with their lives. Essentially, I think, although that was a bit of a rant, what I'm trying to kind of communicate is that friendships ending is not only normal, but also a necessary part of growth. And it should be something that we are more honest about.

If you and a person are no longer compatible, you have different priorities. You know, why force it at that stage? Would it not just be better to give each other the freedom to move on and transform into the new versions of yourselves rather than you both kind of having to appease those who are now a reflection of a past you? I think there is one element of friendship breaksups that I do really want to touch on though because I'm very, not, I don't want to say like I'm a pro-frenship breakup person,

but I'm pro cultivating the right relationships for you. we often hear someone referred to an ex-friend as toxic or they bring negative energy into their life and I'm sure we've all used that word or you know they're toxic as fuck or their relationship was like so was like really toxic like they're a toxic person and I kind of have always had a bit of a problem with this like do toxic people really exist is this a reason to kind of justify ending a friendship with someone that they're toxic they're inherently toxic And I do have a particular opinion about this, obviously, that I don't think is necessarily shared by everyone.

But I really don't think that toxic people as a category exist. I don't think that anyone in particular is just toxic to their core. People just have friction with other people and not with others. And that creates negativity and that toxicity that we associate with someone in particular. it's not that person, it's your relationship within, with that person, not them. And I think those are some, those things that we can't really confuse. And because of your relationship and because it's not compatible, that's what creates that negativity. Like, no one is toxic.

I like hate that phrase. I don't think that we can claim anyone is toxic. But with that in mind, I do think there obviously is a certain point where friendships do, cross boundaries and become an increasingly negative force on your life. And psychological research does say there are certain personality types that do tend to conflict with others, meaning that those relationships are more likely to be kind of charged with negativity. So these types of people have, like I said, distinct personalities or ways of operating socially, but this doesn't make them entirely toxic or toxic for everyone. They just might not. Be the most compatible with you,

or with the majority of people. So according to some of this recent research that I stumbled across, and this was really interesting because I'd never heard of this concept before. But this research suggests that there are at least four basic types of people that we generally may see as toxic. So the narcissistic aggressive person, the frenemy, the negative complaining person,

and the seductive, Dramatic person. Starting off. So the narcissistic aggressive type is often someone who is selfish but still highly charming. So they charm and suck you in and can be rather assertive but they're also inclined towards possessiveness. So although the initial stages of the friendship may be very gooey and exciting, pleasant even, there is often a degree of rage or anger when things don't go their own way and intense

outbursts almost when you spend time with people or you or they tend to or you know they might perceive that you're neglecting them so the frenemy is the next archetype so they seem like a friend but can often become jealous perhaps they're prone to gossip and you feel like you just can't trust them you might even feel inclined to say that they're or perhaps see that they're deliberately trying to sabotage your happiness amongst other people in order to kind of bolster their self-worth self-esteem as well. And by sabotaging those other relationships, it also increases your reliance on them. So the third archetype. This is the negative complaining person. And this is someone who never, never appears happy. They're never satisfied with your friendship and what you have

to give them in any way. Nothing pleases them. And I had a friend like this and my fucking God, it was exhausting. Being around, you know, someone who regards their life as terrible. and can never take encouragement is exhausting. It's so tiring. It makes you feel depressed. You just feel so hopeless. And you want to help them, but it's just sometimes there's just these people who are just ultimately pessimistic. And perhaps at first, you know, like other archetypes, they appear really friendly and they're open to adventure. But it can often change into passive aggression, a need to dominate your social life and a pattern of negativity that is really difficult to deal with. and it's difficult to overcome.

And it's, I think, a big indicator of this type of person, the negative complaining person, is that it's emotionally draining to be around them. And it's emotionally draining to hear how everyone and everything in life is failing them and going poorly whilst you're there, you know, trying to hold them up, trying to support them. Finally, the seductive, overly dramatic person. So these people, they're often the life of the party, they're physically attractive, intelligent, charming, exciting, but they steamroll you. They require all of your attention. This is the type of person or individual who never seems to be listening when you're telling them

your issues or they'll interrupt in trying to make something funny or about them. Just cut you off. They talk over you and they often require a lot of attention and energy but almost never seem to come through for you or they never really seem to acknowledge you either. You're just kind of an accessory for them. They crave attention, but it can leave you as the friend feeling pretty depleted and unworthy, unseen or useless. So knowing that there are these types of people out there, I'm sure we can all conjure upon some image of someone who would fit into at least one of these four categories. But then there's the question, we all know someone like this. So why do we continue to remain friends with people who treat us poorly or who make us feel unappreciated.

So one reason why we remain friends with people a lot longer than necessary is fear. It's fear of loneliness. Humans have a natural drive to avoid loneliness. It's built into our DNA. So when we feel less socially connected or separated or feel like a member of our extended tribe essentially is treating us poorly or withdrawing, it creates this visceral knee-jerk reaction emotionally. And as a tribal species, our brains have adapted to rely on social connections as a means to survive. So according to this neuroscience, scientist, his name was John Kachiopo.

Kachiopo? John Kachiopo. I'll put it in the show notes. You can have a look at it if you want. he's made a career out of basically just studying loneliness a really kind of a sad niche and in one of his recent papers he made this point so the absence of social connection triggers the same primal alarm bells as hunger thirst and physical pain so this is what leads us to maintain friendships even when they are incompatible or we no longer feel satisfied especially if we feel like we have limited options beyond that friend or group of friends. Additionally, unhealthy friendships can do enormous damage to your confidence levels without you even realizing it. So the idea of leaving what is comfortable, even if it's not fulfilling and going out to find you friends, it can be extra terrifying if you

already are in a place of depleted self-esteem. This also kind of leads on to another reason why we stay friends with people who might not necessarily be the best fit for our character or bring out the best aspects of who we are. We want to feel needed. Everyone wants to feel like they provide value to the world. And if we're there for our friends, if we have friends, it makes us feel like we're valuable. And social connections are also an incredibly meaningful and often understated way in which we feel we have purpose, friendships and social ties. They allow us to situate ourselves in our external world, and internally they make us feel secure and supported,

especially when our presence is serving a function for someone else. The underlying psychology and the socially tuned nature of our brain can also make it exceptionally difficult to end friendships, especially if like in a breakup we're concentrating on times when our friendships were positive and warm and glowy and nice. Friendships have a honeymoon phase just like relationships but I think just like relationships we also tend to outgrow them. Like I said, if you're not losing friends, you're not growing.

But I think the important thing to remember and I know it's just like this isn't like a necessarily very wise thing to say. I just think it's a nice way to end the episode is that friends should be there to support you and to enrich your life. And if they're bringing you down, it's probably time to move on. If you don't enjoy their company, move on. The people you choose to surround yourself with should be great spirits and they should inspire you to be the absolute best you can and just create that energy that you yourself want to embody and represent. I think in our 20s, it's inevitable. You're going to go through a friendship breakup. But recognizing

when it is time to move on and handling it with grace is kind of our best option at that point. Honestly, I don't know, this is a bit weird, but why not have like a breakup chat about it? I've done it with friends before. It kind of curbs the awkwardness. And obviously that's not an option for everyone if someone's done something really terrible to you. Cut them out. You know, vibe so high, you don't need them. Sometimes, you know, you're just going to have to have awkward run-ins with ex-friends and just hope that you're both mature enough to, like,

like not mention it and just ask how each other have been and move on me the bigger person anyhow i hope you guys enjoyed this episode like i kind of mentioned it was incredibly cathartic and it's kind of been building up in my notes archive for a while so i just think it's super important to talk about friendship breakups they're everywhere we can all think of someone who we're no longer friends with maybe we even resent them we haven't forgiven them for something it feels like that friendship felt like a relationship even. So definitely something I think needs to be talked about more. So I hope that kind of understanding some of the psychology behind it was interesting. And like I said, like I always say, I guess, remember to subscribe to this podcast

if you liked it on wherever you're listening, honestly. I'm sure you can subscribe there unless it's like on the website like my grandparents do it. And I hope that we're all coping well with lockdown and whatever is going on with your life. Yeah, feel free to drop some suggestions as well on Instagram if you've got any ideas about what you want to hear about on the next episode of the show. And as always, thanks so much for listening. 2%. That's the number of people who take the stairs when there is also an escalator available.

I'm Michael Easter. And on my podcast, 2%. I break down the science of mental toughness, fitness, and building resilience in our strange modern world. Put yourself through some hardships, and you will come out on the other side a happier, more fulfilled, healthier person. Listen to 2%. That's T.O.% on the IHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. On the Look Back at it podcast.

From 1979, that was a big moment for me. 84's big to me. I'm Sam J. And I'm Alex English. Each episode, we pick a here, unpack what went down, and try to make sense of how we survived it. With our friends, fellow comedians, and favorite authors. Like Mark Lamont Hill on the 80s. It was a wild year.

It was a wild year. I don't think there's a more important year for black people. Listen to look back at it on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, what's good, y'all? You're listening to Learn the Hard Way with your favorite therapist and host's Kier Games. This space is about black men's experiences, having honest conversations that it's really not safe to have anywhere, but you're having him with a licensed professional who knows what he's doing. How many men carry a suit or armor.

It signals to the world that you're not to be played with. And just because you have the capability that does not mean that you need to, listen to learn the hard way on the IHard radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. This is an IHart podcast. Guaranteed human.