The Psychology of your 20s - 132. The psychology of Taylor Swift

Episode Date: October 5, 2023

Taylor Swift is possibly the most famous person in the world right now, beloved by millions, streamed by billions, her eras tour may have even saved the US economy. What is it about her as an artist, a celebrity and a person that is so uniquely captivating? How has she continued to reach new heights, new fans and achieve such career longevity? And why do so many of us feel an emotional connection to her and her music, despite never having met her?  In this episode we discuss all of the underlying psychology behind the success and obsession with Taylor Swift; not just as a musician, but as a brand and a business, maybe even a friend, including:  Parasocial relationships and celebrity worship syndrome The power of escapism and story telling  The psychology behind our music preferences  The formula for celebrity relatability and authenticity  In group and out groups  The impact of her 'eras' and use of easter eggs for creating novelty and newness for her fans, and Why we are so obsessed with celebrity gossip Taylor Swift is more than an artist. For many swifities, she is a lifestyle and an idol whose music has been a part of our lives since we were kids or teenagers, bookmarking certain chapters and milestones as we have grown up alongside her. Today, let's break down the psychology behind everything we love, and sometimes dislike about Taylor Swift.  Follow the podcast on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/thatpsychologypodcast/  Follow me on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/jemmasbeg/  Support my Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/ThePsychologyofyour20s   See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I-Heart podcast. Guaranteed Human. 2%. That's the number of people who take the stairs when there is also an escalator available. I'm Michael Easter. And on my podcast, 2%. I break down the science of mental toughness, fitness, and building resilience in our strange modern world.

Put yourself through some hardships, and you will come out on the other side a happier, more fulfilled, healthier person. Listen to 2%. That's TWO. percent on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. On the Look Back at it podcast. From 1979, that was a big moment for me. 84 was big to me.

I'm Sam J. And I'm Alex English. Each episode, we pick a year, unpack what went down, and try to make sense of how we survived it. With our friends, fellow comedians, and favorite authors. Like Mark Lamont Hill on the 80s. 84 was a wild year. It was a wild year. I don't think there's a more important year for black people.

Listen to look back at it on the IHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, what's good, y'all? You're listening to Learn the Hard Way with your favorite therapist and host Kear Games. This space is about black men's experiences, having honest conversations that it's really not safe to have anywhere, but you're having them with a licensed professional who knows what he's doing. How many men carry a suit or armor. It signals to the world that you not to be played with. And just because you have the capability that doesn't. not mean that you need to.

Listen to learn the hard way on the AHA radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. In 2023, Bachelor star Clayton Eckerd was accused of fathering twins. But the pregnancy appeared to be a hoax. You doctored this particular test twice, Ms. Owens, correct? I doctored the test ones. It took an army of internet detectives to uncover a disturbing pattern. Two more men who'd been through the same thing. Greg, a lesbian.

Michael Mancini. My mind was blown. I'm Stephanie Young. This is Love Trapped. Laura, Scottsdale Police. As the season continues, Laura Owens finally faces consequences. Listen to Love Trapped podcast on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hello everybody and welcome back to the psychology of your 20s, the podcast where we talk through some of the big life changes and transitions of our 20s and what they mean is.

for our psychology. Hello everybody. Welcome back to the show. Welcome back to the podcast. New listeners, old listeners, wherever you are in the world. It is so great to have you back for another topic, another episode where we break down the psychology of our 20s. Okay, so you have read the title. You know what we're getting into today. And if you are a loyal listener of the show, you know that we are doing a very different episode to what we usually do. I very rarely talk about pop culture on this podcast, but I've come to realize that this person, this topic, feels timeless. And I have justified to myself that it is also relevant to our 20s, at least to mine. And when I suggested it over on my Instagram, you guys went wild. So you know what? Let's do it. And that topic is the psychology of Taylor Swift.

and the reason why so many of us across the globe, not just as individuals, but as an entire collective, have such a deep love and obsession with her as an artist. Taylor Swift is probably the most famous person in the world right now and has been a well-known celebrity for decades at this point, which is really difficult to do, especially as a female musician where there is this constant trend and cycle of momentary celebrity. and fame that comes in waves where, you know, the new best thing, the new shiny thing is picked up and dropped off very quickly. And yet, every year, it feels like she reaches incredible new heights, new fans, new milestones in career building moments. Her fame, I honestly think cannot be contained. And that is a bit of a superpower in the modern age of entertainment and celebrity culture. We have seen that especially this year with the Erez Tour,

which was possibly the hardest concert ever in history to get tickets to, and also may have saved the literal US economy, if you believe, some sources. It's mania. It's Swift mania. And the only way I think that we can really understand the impact that one person, Taylor Swift, has on people, is by really examining the psychology behind her, not just as a person, but as a celebrity, as a brand, and as a business. But also as someone who a lot of us, especially hardcore fans,

feel like they have a personal relationship with. They feel like they know her on some deep, social, mental level, despite never having met her. What is it about Taylor Swift that causes people to spend thousands of dollars to devote their lives to her, to know everything about her life. And as this relates to our 20s as well, I feel like for many of us, Taylor Swift and her music kind of provides us with somewhat of a guide and an emotional outlet for all of the universal experiences that we go through in this decade. Her songs are a voice to what we are experiencing even as non-celebrities, and that is her power, her ability. to make something relatable, like heartbreak, deeply personal and poetic.

It's also worth acknowledging that the majority of her fan base is between the ages of 20 to 30, right during this formative period. And I think that bears examining as to why her music is so powerful for people in this age bracket. People who have grown up with Taylor, who maybe started listening to her at 10, 11, 13, 14, when she released Speak Now or Fearless, and now are adults who see a lot of their experiences and their stories as they transition into this new period of their life reflected in her music. And, you know, in terms of my 20s, Taylor Swift and her albums have genuinely bookmarked certain chapters of my life and milestones that I think are very universal and incredibly important.

You know, I fell in love for the first time when her album, lover came out. We all went through lockdown and a global pandemic playing her two surprise albums, you know, folklore and evermore. I moved to a new city as Midnights was released. And the songs on those albums have been the soundtrack to my life for many, many years. Basically, I'm adding myself as a massive swiftly. I can give you all the reasons I wanted to do this episode, but mainly it was to examine my own psychology when it comes to my loyalty. and my love for her. I also think that if you are a loyal listener of the show, that will come as no surprise. I said to my friend the other day, I genuinely think about her at least five to ten times a day.

Ever since my dad bought me her first album when I was seven years old, she has been part of my life, little known secret as well. I even have a Taylor Swift tattoo, and I'm not embarrassed by that at all. So maybe when we talk about the psychological underpinnings behind our obsession with Taylor Swift, what I'm really doing is offering myself up as a case study. This is me breaking down my very own parasycial relationship with her, hoping that at least one person out there can relate. So in this episode, we are going to break down all the psychology behind why we find Taylor Swift so captivating.

We're going to explore the psychology of obsession of parasocial relationships and celebrity worship syndrome. the power of escapism and what certain music does to our brains and the pleasure centres in our minds, why it is that we have specific music preferences. We're going to focus on the underpinnings of relatability and fostering relatability through similarity and authenticity, the significance of storytelling. And we're also going to look at why certain decisions that Taylor Swift has made throughout her career have proven so successful because of how they have leveraged important aspects of our psychology. I'm talking about her use of errors, her use of Easter eggs, her use of so many

other parts of her brand that have made her fame become and seem genuinely unstoppable. There is so much to cover things that I didn't even imagine when first looking into this. I think it just goes to show how everything truly is psychology, including the celebrities that we love and music and fame all rolled into one. So if you can't tell, I'm so excited to get into this episode, so excited. So without further ado, let's examine the psychology behind everything we love and sometimes dislike about Taylor Swift. 2%. That is the number of people who take the stairs when there is also an escalator available. I'm Michael Easter, and on my podcast, 2%, I break down the science of mental toughness, fitness, and building resilience in our strange

modern world. I'll be speaking with writers, researchers, and other health and fitness experts, and more, to look past the impractical and way too complex pseudoscience that dominates the wellness industry. We really believe that seed oils were inherently inflammatory. We got it wrong. Many of the problems that we are freaked out about in the world are the result of stress. Put yourself through some hardships and you will come out on the other side a happier, more fulfilled, healthier person. Listen to 2%. That's T-W-O-Persent on the I-Hart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. There's two golden rules that any man should live by. Rule one, never mess with a country girl.

You play stupid games, you get stupid prizes. And Rule 2, never mess with her friends either. We always say that trust your girlfriends. I'm Anna Sinfield, and in this new season of the girlfriends... Oh my God, this is the same man. A group of women discover they've all dated the same prolific con artist. I felt like I got hit by a truck. I thought, how could this happen to me?

The cops didn't seem to care. So they take matters into their own hands. said, oh, hell no. I vowed I will be his last target. He's going to get what he deserves. Listen to the girlfriends. Trust me, babe. On the Iheart radio app, Apple Podcasts,

or wherever you get your podcasts. Do you remember when Diana Ross double-tapped little Kim's boobs at the VMAs? Or when Kanye said that George Bush didn't like black people. I know what you're thinking. What the hell does George Bush got to do with Little Kim? Well, you can find out on the Look Back at it podcast.

I'm Sam J. And I'm Alex Inman. Each episode, we pick it here, unpack what went down, and try to make sense of how we survived it. Including a recent episode with Mark Lamont Hill, waxing all about crack in the 80s. To be clear, 84's big to me, not just because of crack. I'm down to talk about crack on day, but just so y'all know. I mean, at this point, Mark, this is the second episode where we've discussed crack. So I'm starting to see that there's a through line.

We also have AIDS on the table right now. Thank you for finishing that sentence. Yes. I don't think there's a more important year for black people. Really? Yeah. For me, it's one of the most important years for black people in American history. Listen to look back at it on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Welcome to my new podcast, Learn the Hard Way with me, your host, and your favorite therapist, Kear Games. And in recognition of mental health awareness month, I'm bringing over a decade of my own experience in the mental health field and conversations with so many incredible guests. I'm talking, Tripp Fontaine, Ryan Clark. Sometimes when we're in the pursuit of the thing, we get so wrapped up in the chase that we don't realize that we are in possession of the thing. And we're still chasing it. And we don't know when we've done enough. Because people scoreboard watch.

Life becomes about wins and losses. Steve Burns, Dustin Ross, because you find it important to be a good person while you hear on earth. Or are you a good person because you're afraid? Because that's two different intentions, bro. Absolutely. And that's two different levels of trust. I want you to just really be a good person.

person. Join me, Keir Gaines, as we have real conversations about healing, growth, fatherhood, pressure, and purpose on my new podcast, Learn the Hardway. Open your free Our Heart Radio app, search Learn the Hardway, and listen now. So Taylor Allison Swift was born famously on the 13th of December, 1989, a year that has since gone on to inspire her titular album named after the same year. A bit of background and biographical information for people who may not be diehard Swifties because this context is super important. Taylor was born in Pennsylvania and she was raised on a literal Christmas tree farm, which is pretty iconic if you ask me.

And this is really important. This origin story is important because Taylor, for her fans, has this really relatable small town, big dreams origin story, one which we all can't help but love because it makes us feel a very deep and appealing sense of possibility that we could also reach her levels of stardom and success coming from a non-famous background like she did but additionally it's a very sentimental story right that she really wanted to pursue music she moved to Nashville when she was like 14 she worked really hard she wrote all these beautiful autobiographical songs it makes us feel a special sense of protectiveness, but additionally, real familiarity with

this small country home, the small town vibe, that family feel it captures our attention. That's the thing about Taylor Swift that her biggest fans will tell you. Despite all of her success and fame, she has remained a very authentic and relatable person. She has this cozy feeling to her. She is best friends with her mom. She has these cats that she loves. It's this very small town girl next door feel for those of us who attach to her. Of course, nowadays, she is incredibly famous.

And that really started with the release of Fearless in 2008, Speak Now, Red, and then 1989, which really took her to new heights, not just as an artist, but as a celebrity. If you ask most fans, there is this before and after to Taylor Swift story, centering on the very infamous Taylor Swift is over party that happened back in 2016. And I think that that could have ended her career. You know, a cancellation of that magnitude from some pretty well-known celebrities. That is a huge deal. but instead she used this to transform herself into a new version of Taylor.

The one that I would say is possibly more likable because she wasn't perfect anymore. And we're going to talk more about her use of errors later on, but following this series of events that I think we all know about, she released reputation. And that is where we see this shift from her being this young pop star to being a mature adult musician. She began swearing on her song. She talked about alcohol and revenge and a lot more heavy emotions that she had previously

really steered away from. And I don't think that that was a deliberate marketing move, right? I think the thing unique to Taylor Swift is that she has grown up in the spotlight. We have seen her to traverse and survive her first decade of adulthood as a highly visible person. We have witnessed her development, not just as. as an individual, but as an artist. And we have seen how the themes of her music have matured and developed, and that is highly appealing to the everyday listener who is also going through those same transitions just at a different level, who gets to see their same messy, chaotic, deeply

feeling imperfect selves reflected in Taylor Swift's journey. It feels personally relatable. It feels personally relevant. I would say that some people would think that Taylor Swift has been defined by her drama, her scandals, the men that she has dated, but I don't think that is a very nuanced perspective and I think it's also deeply incorrect. Really, her success comes down to one thing and one thing only, and that is her ability to write songs that we all feel could very easily be about us. You and me, living out our everyday lives, the relatability behind her lyrics and music, it makes it feel like someone has put a voice to some of our own very universal feelings. And not in this really fantastical, glamorous way or manner, one that is imbued by fame, but in a way that is

super simple and digestible because it is so relatable. And it uses these really foundational tools of storytelling. It uses metaphor. It uses, you know, tropes and stories that we all know of Romeo and Juliet, of Julius Caesar, of unrequited love. That is really, really familiar to us. And she's also very well known for those verbal hooks as well. She has this impeccable ability to write bridges that are addictive and memorable, like in all too well. She says, you called me up again just to break me like a promise, so casually cruel. in the name of being honest. It rhymes.

It's poetic. It's succinct. In Cruel Summer. She has the bridge, you know, the very end of her bridge that's like, I love you. Isn't that the worst thing that you have ever heard? That is memorable. That is powerful. Our brains love something that is easy to remember, that is sharp, that is profound, that

gives us a message. But let's look at this highly relatable nature to her songs and the stories within. them. The thing that I think is really powerful is that a lot of celebrities, a lot of artists in particular, become famous and lose touch. But on Evermore, in Tis the Tem season, you know, Taylor Swift talks about what it's like to return back to your hometown for the holiday season and reunite with a high school lover. She sings about running away with a childhood friend in folklore or getting too drunk at the bar and needing to be taken home by your friends and hit different, regretting a breakup in back to December. And then, you know, there's the three songs

on folklore that are about a love triangle between two, you know, three people that takes place in locations that are ubiquitous as parking lots and shopping malls and in the back of a high school classroom. Those situations, those settings are highly, highly simplistic, relatable, universal, we can all see ourselves in those moments she's talking about, in those places that she's speaking about. And she was writing those songs at a time when she had a net worth of over $300 million. That fame, that success has not altered her very intuitive ability to take very commonplace human experiences and turn them into music and songs that we love. no matter what you're feeling, Taylor Swift has probably got a song that explains that exact moment,

meaning that her discography, it almost offers a dictionary of human emotion, whereby we can search up a feeling and return with a song that will capture exactly what we're experiencing, and it won't be dressed up in fancy clothing or make any reference to her status as a celebrity. She does not alienate people. in her songwriting. So psychology shows us that this relatability that Taylor Swift wields is one of the most powerful things that a celebrity can possess. And it comes down to these very simple principles of similarity and familiarity. There is this theory in social psychology known as the similarity attraction effect, which refers to the deeply ingrained tendency to like someone more when we

think that we are alike, or when we believe that we have shared similar experiences, this has been proven in a number of studies, including one in 2007, which measured the degree of likeness between friends and how each of the pair rated their mutual attraction to the other. So the more that they felt like their friend had been through similar struggles to them, had similar values, similar experiences, the more likely they were to want to be around them to express praise and love and admiration for their friend. So take that micro interpersonal example and apply it to the relationship between Taylor Swift and her fans. When she writes intimately about the pain of her first heartbreak, we listen to that and we see ourselves

reflected in those lyrics. When she talks about missing long-time friends, when she talks about not knowing the future of your relationship, of feeling scared to grow up, of feeling like a failure, we feel ourselves in that music. And so our brain, activating this similarity attraction nexus, likes her more. It also comes down to this idea of escapism and our use of music as a mental escape. So escapism is this idea that we use certain activities or forms of entertainment as a mental diversion or distraction from the unpleasant things in our daily life. So it kind of acts as a coping mechanism to protect us from uncomfortable feelings, situations, where we're perhaps not quite ready to face reality by directing our attention to something

that is more safe or enjoyable like particular songs or comfort artists. So researchers have shown that music serves as a really important tool in those moments. It eases our anxiety, it improves mood, it boosts our confidence, and it also decreases our sense of isolation, especially when the songs we are listening to mimic the emotional experience we are trying to navigate. Or more importantly, when the song, we are trying to navigate. or more importantly, when the song tells us a story that we can become invested in. So Taylor Swift writes those songs that tell those stories, that tell stories of revenge, of love, of heartbreak, of growing up.

And listening to these stories provides us with a vicarious sense of release, or what is known as emotional catharsis, because she has put into words the things we don't know how to. That is why we love her music so much. because it offers us a place to kind of hide away from the things that are bothering us by escaping into her life and her stories and her feelings rather than our own. It also comes down to the psychology behind our music preferences. What artists and songs and genres we like feel so deeply personal

and that's because it is. It is highly correlated to our personality and our self-concerted. We've seen studies that have shown that we select music based on how we see ourselves, based on our identity. And we know that identity is something that is self-directed, whereby we are actively choosing the person we want to be and what they look like. So they found in this study conducted in 2020 that based on an examination of over 80,000 people, we prefer music from artists whose personalities and identities we see ourselves in. So based on things like age, like gender, like race, interests, and the public personality of this person. So we have someone like Taylor Swift,

right, who is not only, as we've talked about, highly, highly relatable in her music, but she also has this very girl next door feel. We can easily look at her and identify the ways in which, you know, her and us are alike. We fantasize about how we could, you know, go and grab a drink or a coffee with her and chat for hours. And that also comes down to the fact that her songs are really autobiographical and personal. So we feel like we already know a lot about her because she shares so much about her life through her music. We could talk about her latest breakup, about how her mum's doing, what her friends are up to, her cats, whatever it is. Importantly, all of those things are things that are things that we would talk about to a good friend because it's all there in what she puts in her songs.

And so, you know, by logic, in a sense, she is our friend now. I also have a personal theory that this is really elevated by her use of Easter eggs in her music. So an Easter egg in pop culture is like a little hidden message that an artist puts in their songs or their music videos or their posts, outfits, anything. and it acts as a clue or some secret message that only their fans can interpret. So it also acts as almost like a scavenger hunt, right, that like indicates things that are in the works, when the next album is coming out, what they're going through in their life, upcoming announcements. And Taylor Swift uses Easter eggs, I think, like no one else.

She sometimes plots them, places them, months in advance only to suddenly reveal this huge thing like a tour, like a movie, like a surprise album that she has, when we look at it in hindsight, really been hinting at for a while. So when she reveals that kind of little game that she's been at, that Easter eggs, those Easter eggs she's been leaving, it kind of elevates and provides a sense of mystery and anticipation that has her fans watching her movements even closer looking for the next set of clues that she's currently leaving. So every single one of her listeners is now a detective. Now feels really intimately involved in finding ways to really deconstruct her everyday actions

with the bigger hope that they'll stumble upon some bigger hidden message that she's leaving them. It makes us more attentive. It makes for a more attentive fan base. But it also has the secondary a consequence of once again feeling like she is somehow in personal communication with us. Of course I think it goes without saying that this can cause its own problems when we forget that this person is ultimately, unfortunately, as much as we may want her to be, not our friend. We may feel really close to her due to her autobiographical relatable music, due to her public image, but she is basically a stranger. And this is where we get into the idea of parasocial relationships.

So in psychology, a parasycial relationship occurs whereby one person feels really deeply connected and invested in someone extends a lot of emotional energy, interest, time, money into this person. And the other party is completely unaware of their existence. So this is really regularly and most commonly, seen with celebrities whereby we think that we have this kind of reciprocal relationship with them due to repeated exposure and consumption of their music, their content, their interviews, but by nature it is entirely one-sided. And of course, Taylor Swift is a massive target for

these kinds of feelings, these kinds of quote-unquote relationships that we feel that we're having with celebrities. You know, I was looking at it the other day. She has like close to 300 million Instagram followers and 100 million monthly listeners on Spotify. It would be impossible for her to know or have even the slightest knowledge of every single one of those people, despite how loyal we may be, despite how much we might love her, defend her, support her. And the parosocial nature of this means she has incredible influence where we will replicate her behavior. We will copy her style by the drinks she likes. the clothes she wears, all of her music, but we have little reward coming from her as a person.

And the reason that we're able to foster this kind of relationship, this connection, is because she is a celebrity. She is a celebrity. There are constant news articles written about her, photos, gossip, interviews, red carpet appearances to the point that, especially nowadays, that she is more public than she was in recent years, we probably know more about her daily life than we do of our friends or our family members. And when we form that attachment, it's a really hard one to break.

It's actually called a parasocial breakup. And some studies have suggested that the emotional distress of feeling like we are becoming detached or removed from a celebrity that we love is just as intense as a real-life breakup or some kind of interpersonal conflict or separation. So I think this actually really explains something that happened around 2015, 16, where we saw so many diehard fans of hers become genuinely upset and confused and quite lost when she disappeared for almost two years before the release of reputation, when she made a conscious decision to shut off access to her personal life. There were no photos of her. There were no appearances. no social media posts.

And she says in her documentary, you know, no one physically saw her for a year. And that genuinely led to withdraw from the fans of hers who had come to see her as more than a celebrity. They came to see her as a friend. They felt betrayed, upset as if they were kind of owed some kind of explanation or insight.

Because of the nature of this one-sided relationship, we forget she's famous, we forget that she doesn't know us, but we also forget that she is just a person and having millions of people watching your every move, commenting constantly on your love life, everything you say online, every lyric, it would be really exhausting.

But it's no surprise that we're seeing more of these parasocial relationships the more popular social media becomes. And it can actually result in some really strange, really aggressive behaviours, you know, instances of stalking, not just with Taylor, but with many celebrities, you know, break-ins, obsessive monitoring. If you've ever watched the movie, I think it's called The Bodyguard with Whitney Houston and Kevin Crosstner or something like that, it's an old one, but it's a really fantastic depiction of what

parosocial relationships can look like at the severe end of the spectrum. When it gets to the point of what we call celebrity worship syndrome. So basically that is a type of parosocial relationship that occurs when our admiration for a celebrity shifts into an obsessive fascination and preoccupation. It's been described as a literal obsessive addictive disorder whereby we are compulsively invested in this person's life beyond our control, meaning we know we should stop, but we don't know how to. We become so mentally intertwined with this person. They are such a core part of our identity that we genuinely don't know what we would do without them. And obviously this is really, really rare. But when you are at the level of stardom, that Taylor Swift is,

I would say there are probably at least a few people out there who have gotten to this point. Actually, I know that there has been. There was a man who was literally arrested in May of this year for stalking her and sleeping in her bed. which, you know, I would be moving out after that. If someone came into my house and slept in my bed, that is terrifying, regardless of how famous or how much money you make. So I think it's time for a bit of a break here to have a bit of a braver. So go and listen to Red Taylor's version or the album of your choosing.

Get yourself a cup of tea before we discuss the power of Taylor Swift's marketing, the impact of her errors as a way of promoting relational closeness to her fans, and the surprising psychological impacts of celebrity gossip columns and the role of in groups and outgroups. So all of that and more after this short break. 2%. That is the number of people who take the stairs when there is also an escalator available.

I'm Michael Easter, and on my podcast, 2%. I break down the science of mental toughness, fitness and building resilience in our strange modern world. I'll be speaking with writers, researchers, and other health and fitness experts, and more, to look past the impractical and way too complex pseudoscience that dominates the wellness industry. We really believe that seed oils were inherently inflammatory. We got it wrong. Many of the problems that we are freaked out about in the world are the result of stress.

Put yourself through some hardships, and you will come out on the outside. other side, a happier, more fulfilled, healthier person. Listen to 2%. That's T-W-O-Persent on the I-Hart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. There's two golden rules that any man should live by. Rule one, never mess with a country girl. You play stupid games, you get stupid prizes. And rule two, never mess with her friends either.

We always say that trust your girl. I'm Anna Sinfield, and in this new season of The Girlfriends, Oh my God, this is the same man. A group of women discover they've all dated the same prolific con artist. I felt like I got hit by a truck. I thought, how could this happen to me? The cops didn't seem to care, so they take matters into their own hands. I said, oh, hell no.

I vowed, I will be his last target. He's going to get what he deserves. Listen to the Girlfriends. Trust me, babe. on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Do you remember when Diana Ross double-tapped Little Kim's boobs at the VMAs? Or when Kanye said that George Bush didn't like black people. I know what you're thinking.

What the hell does George Bush got to do with Little Kim? Well, you can find out on the Look Back at it podcast. I'm Sam J. And I'm Alex English. Each episode, we pick a here, unpack what went down, and try to make sense of how we survived it. Including a recent episode with Mark Lamont Hill, waxing all. all about crack in the 80s. To be clear, 84 is big to me, not just because of crack.

I'm down to talk about crack all day, but just so you all know. I mean, at this point, Mark, this is the second episode where we've discussed crack. So I'm starting to see that there's a through line. We also have AIDS on the table right now. Thank you finishing that sentence. Yes. I don't think there's a more important year for black people. Really?

Yeah. For me, it's one of the most important years for black people in American history. Listen to look back at it on the IHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Welcome to my new podcast, Learn the Hardway with me, your host, and your favorite therapist, Keer Games. And in recognition of mental health awareness month, I'm bringing over a decade of my own experience in the mental health field and conversations with so many incredible guests. I'm talking, Tripp Fontaine, Ryan Clark. Sometimes when we're in the pursuit of the thing, we get so wrapped up in the chase that we don't realize that we,

are in possession of the thing. And we're still chasing it. And we don't know when we've done enough. Because people scoreboard watch. Life becomes about wins and losses. Steve Burns, Dustin Ross, because you find it important to be a good person while you hear on earth?

Or are you a good person because you're afraid? Because that's two different intentions, bro. Absolutely. And that's two different levels of trust. I want you to just really be a good person. Join me, Kear Gaines, is we have real conversations about healing, growth, fatherhood, pressure,

and purpose on my new podcast, Learn the Hardway. Open your free iHeartRadio app, search Learn the Hardway and listen now. So if you are familiar with Taylor Swift, you will know that a massive element of her brand and the way she releases music is centered on the creation of these so-called errors.

Essentially, with every new album that she releases, Taylor portrays and reveals this, slightly different version of herself. And she's done this increasingly in the past 10 years of her career going from a small town country artist with at times quite

Christian undertones and ideals to a pop idol with 1989, moving into rock and pot with reputation, folk and indie music with folklore and evermore and then returning to that very pop narrative focus with albums

like Midnights. It's not just the music that is different and that is important. It is the colors that she uses to represent this new chapter. It is the cities that she's living in. It is the thematic devices. For example, with lover, everything was centered on this very romantic premise. Love hearts and sequins and tulle and marriage and forever and pastel blue skies with reputation. It was leather and snakes and motorcycles and dark almost emo makeup ideas of karma and revenge and her errors even evolve and represent in how she presents herself what she wears how she's engaging with her fan base based on the era that she is in you know who she's associated with everything about her

kind of shifts based on where she's at the album she releases this chapter in her life As an artist, Taylor Swift has made it part of her business model to be constantly evolving, to be testing new genres, new personas. And the significance of this from a psychological perspective really cannot be overlooked because I think aside from her relatability, it is one of the greatest marketing assets that she has at her disposal. And you don't really need to look that far to see that. It's, you know, what her recent tour was named after.

it's not only a huge contributor to her longevity and success, but a massive thing in Swifty culture where the era that you started listening to Taylor almost in parts some kind of social status. And there's a really key reason why this attracts so many people, not just to her music, but to her as a person. Humans crave newness. We crave novelty. We get bored relatively quickly because when we are not being challenged,

or stimulated, our brain has nothing to take to you grow or expand. It has nothing to kind of stimulate it. So it will look for something else. And studies have shown that novelty triggers the release of dopamine in the reward centers of the brain. It keeps our attention sustained. It keeps us curious. And when it comes to massive musicians like Taylor, it keeps us invested. If Taylor Swift had just kept making country albums because she thought that was the only thing that her fans wanted from her. I really doubt that she would be the kind of success that she is now, that she would be selling the kind of concert tickets that she is now, but she took risks and she allowed herself to develop meeting the demand from her fans not only for just more Taylor and more music, but new Taylor

and different music, something that's going to keep. keep our attention. It's also worth noting that this adaptability, this growth, this constant changing is not something that is expected from male artists. They are allowed to find their niche and stay there for their entire careers. They know, you know, they do not have to be as sensitive to the demands of their fans. They most certainly do not have to put on the kind of shows and theatrics and outfits and personas that are expected from some of our favorite female stars like Beyonce or Lady Gaga. And I think that at times has come at a personal detriment to Taylor, as she spoke about in her documentary, Miss Americana and The Heartbreak Prince on Netflix.

As she says, female artists have to constantly reinvent themselves so many times or they're out of a job. So many female musicians do not have the career longevity that is afforded to their male colleagues. A lot of the time they are kind of discarded by the time they turn 30, when they're not pretty, when they're not the shiny new thing. And so they need to be new to us, they need to be young to us, but only in the way that we want without even knowing it. They need to reinvent themselves for the fans, for the audience. in a way that is both very comforting but also a challenge,

and really live out a narrative of constantly evolving to entertain us. So whilst this is a strategy that I think has been incredibly beneficial to her career, and also I think just a natural evolution as she's aged and developed as a person, it also goes to show how the human desire for novelty and constant entertainment has these unexpected consequences for the musicians that will. we know and love. Now, there are two more aspects to Taylor Swift's identity as a celebrity, as a persona, and her kind of brand that I think we need to talk about that we haven't really touched on so far. And I was unsure as to whether this needed to be included, but I think

the psychology behind these facets or elements to her brand and persona is really too fascinating to leave out of this conversation. So firstly is the role of celebrity gossip and our seemingly universal obsession with her dating life. And secondly, the power of the Swifty fandom, especially what the die-hard fans can teach us about in-group and out-group thinking. It's no secret that as a famous person, your private life is something that everyone feels like they have access to. As misguided as that may be, you are no longer an individual but a commodity, a character to be consumed, something to really keep the masses entertained, and Taylor Swift has been doing just that, probably ever since she was 16, whether it was Harry Stiles or Tom Hiddleston or

Joe Alwyn, whoever it may be, we have this really obsessive fascination with who she is with. And obviously the autobiographical nature of her songwriting means that she invites that somewhat, but she's also doing her job as a songwriter. She will take things from her own life. And I think she really proved with folklore and evermore that she is still an impeccable musician without needing to reference her own life. It's actually really interesting, I think, this whole idea of the gossip narrative around Taylor Swift, because especially in her early 20s,

she was kind of like a lightning rod for good old-fashioned slut shaming. You know, the constant narrative was that she was picking up and disposing men that she was a man-eater. There were comments that she would write a song about any guy she was seen with. And then in the past few years, it feels like the media has kind of clued in that people don't tolerate that as much, that kind of narrative, especially when I was maybe 14 or 15, you could not pick up a tabloid without seeing some theory about her relationships. And for a while, that died down. But it's interesting because a few days ago, I was at the airport. I was buying my pre-flight snacks. And I look over to the magazine section, and there is Taylor and a full page cover on her and Travis Kelsey, who, by the way,

I'm Australian and also I don't like sports, but I genuinely watch an NFL game the other day. I am getting like NFL videos on my Instagram of Travis Kelsey because of his association with Taylor Swift. That goes to show that power. Also like viewership was up, attendance was up, Taylor Swift kind of touches something and it turns to gold. So what is the obsession particularly with her love life? Why do we love celebrity gossip so much? especially when it's about certain deeply vulnerable and personal aspects of their lives. I think we can offer up a few explanations.

Firstly, in psychology, in social psychology, the theory is that gossip is a way of communicating or socializing that really allows us to feel in the know. And therefore, we have more to talk about with others. It's kind of like a social lubricant, for lack of a better word. it serves as a form of social glue binding us together through shared knowledge and experiences, particularly when it comes to well-known figures like Taylor Swift, like other celebrities. Secondly, consuming this kind of content makes you feel more connected with your idol or your favorite artist kind of by proxy.

by consuming articles about who she's dating, where she's dining, what she's wearing, what her house looks like, it makes us feel like we have a connection with this person, further really entrenching our interests and our investment in them. It's what one psychologist has called the feeling of being friends in law with someone, but it can also serve as a form of stress relief as well because we are able to focus on the trials, tribunal. details of someone else's lives like a form of escapism rather than our own. So it kind of numbs our feelings of boredom or even maybe unhappiness. And I think that's especially true when we see or sometimes decide to write negative comments or hateful things, opinions online about famous people. nine out of ten times, that is a projection of our own insecurities or sense of inadequacy. And due to this person's status, as a celebrity, we feel as if, A, what we say is harmless,

and B, we have some sense of anonymity. And so the shame attached to what would typically be quite an anti-social practice is diminished compared to if we were doing it about someone that we actually know. celebrity gossip is both a distraction and an outlet. Finally, I want to move away from talking about Taylor Swift and briefly talk about her fan base. So the psychology behind the Swifty fan base, of which I'm definitely a part of, could honestly be its own episode, but a concept I think is really important to cover here

is the role of in-group and out-group interactions, especially as it relates to. to kind of the desire of fans to defend Taylor Swift against all possible insult and their extreme loyalty. Loyalty like that is not easy to cultivate, especially between yourself and people that you've never met. And yet Taylor Swift is, when she's criticized by the media, when nasty articles are written about her or tweets or an ex-boyfriend like Jake Gyllen Hall or Calvin Harris is perceived as treating her badly, there are thousands of fans who will go to battle for Taylor. And we can explain this using the theory of social categorization. So when it comes to her as an artist as a celebrity, there is an in-group, people who love her

music and support her, and an out-group. People who don't enjoy her music or who criticize her or reduce her songwriting, basically people who are not fans. So based on what we know about social psychology, in groups and outgroups are very naturally opposed. There is a sense of them and a sense of us. And those who are members of the in-group, they feel a really intense sense of loyalty to one another or to a certain person because they psychologically identify with a set of certain character traits, likes, interests, obsessions characteristic that others in the group also share. And the main thing binding Swifty's together is their love for Taylor. We feel aligned and similar to her, but also to each other

because, you know, not just because of music preferences, but also certain beliefs and familiarity. There is a strong emotional and social bond that people feel with her but also with other fans of her music. And in general, when people become real superfans or part of a fandom, it's often because there's something about that person that does connect back to their identity in some way. And so when we observe or talk to people who fall into the outgroup of people who don't like Taylor Swift, we see them as very different or perhaps as possessing some kind of negative perception or misunderstanding, they just don't get how amazing her music is. They just don't understand how powerful her presence is, everything that we love about her.

And so when they challenge Taylor Swift's artistry and her work, they directly challenge our core beliefs and our adoration of her. So it feels like a personal threat. It feels like a personal insult and people really react. accordingly. And that's why we sometimes see such intense emotional behavioral reactions. I think at the end of the day, Taylor Swift has been able to do something that few other musicians, bands, performers have ever done. She has maintained an incredible longevity as an artist. And as someone who is continuously gaining new listeners who has this sense of notoriety that so

many people would want that so many people crave. And to summarize, it really comes down to four major factors. Firstly, relatability. She writes songs that we can connect to. Secondly, familiarity. A lot of us have grown up alongside her. So her music feels like it is something that has accompanied the major moments in our life. She doesn't just feel like a famous person. She feels like a friend. Thirdly is aspiration. She is a role model and someone that we can aspire to, someone that we want to be like, whose behavior we want to replicate. And, you know, take for example, her re-recording her old music, that is a freaking power play. That is amazing. Claiming over, you know, ownership over her work. That is a huge move. Whatever you think about Taylor Swift,

whether you like her or not, you really have to give her credit there. That's pretty, Amazing. And finally, as we discussed, she provides novelty and newness to her fans. She is continuously evolving, pushing herself, growing alongside her audience as they mature. And also, she gives them new stuff, exciting things, and that is so addictive. It's why she is so massive. And whether you are a huge fan, like myself, whether you are a Swifty or not, I think of a lot of the psychology we've explored goes to show exactly why she is a unique combination of both certain traits, characteristics, and also business decisions that have made her so widely successful. I don't think all of it was strategic, but she really captures

something about the human spirit and our need for escapism and relatability and storytelling. And I think that is so powerful. So I really hope that you have enjoyed this episode. to be honest, I think I was the person most excited for this. I fucking love Taylor Swift. I just made a whole episode on her. She is amazing. And it was actually so revealing to understand why that obsession is, why I am so addicted to knowing more about her to listening to her music. It's like such a combination of so many insane different interactions and psychological theories and concepts. So I hope that you got something out of this that you enjoyed this episode. As always, if there is someone you know out there who would like this episode who would get a kick out of it, please feel free to share it with a friend,

a family member, a colleague, whoever it may be. Make sure that you are following us on Instagram at That Psychology Podcast. I'm at Gemma Speg if you want to see some more behind the scenes content. Thank you so much for listening to today's episode and we will be back next week with another one. 2%. That's the number of people who take the stairs when there is also an escalator available. I'm Michael Easter. And on my podcast, 2%. I break down the science of mental toughness, fitness, and building resilience in our strange modern world. Put yourself through some hardships and you will come out on the other side a happier, more fulfilled, healthier person.

Listen to 2%. That's TWO% on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. On The Look Back at it podcast. From 1979, that was a big moment for me. 84 was big to me. I'm Sam J. And I'm Alex English. Each episode, we pick a year,

unpack what went down, and try to make sense of how we survived it, with our friends, fellow comedians, and favorite authors. Like Mark Lamont Hill on the 80s. 84 was a wild year. It was a wild year. I don't think there's a more important year for black people. Listen to Look Back at it on the IHeart Radio app,

Apple Podcast. or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, what's good, y'all? You're listening to Learn the Hard Way with your favorite therapist and host, Kear Games. This space is about black men's experiences, having honest conversations that it's really not safe to have anywhere, but you're having them with a licensed professional

who knows what he's doing. How many men carry a suit or armor? It signals to the world that you're not to be played with. And just because you have the capability that does not mean that you need to. Listen to learn the hard way on the AHA radio Apple Podcast or wherever you get your podcast. In 2023, Bachelor star Clayton Eckerd was accused of fathering twins, but the pregnancy

appeared to be a hoax. You doctored this particular test twice in so much, correct? I doctored the test ones. It took an army of internet detectives to uncover a disturbing pattern. Two more men who'd been through the same thing. Greg Gillespie and Michael Ranchini. My mind was blown. I'm Stephanie Young.

This is love trapped. Laura, Scottsdale Police. As the season continues, Laura Owens finally faces consequences. Listen to Love Trapped podcast on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. This is an IHeart podcast. Guaranteed human.