The Psychology of your 20s - 155. Unlocking your next life chapter ft. Dr Lisa Marie Bobby

Episode Date: December 25, 2023

Feeling stuck and dissatisfied with where you are in your life is never a place we want to be in. Perhaps you are contemplating a major life change - moving to a new city, quitting your job, leaving a long term relationship - that you believe will be the antidote to your future happiness and fulfilment. Psychology shows that this might not always be the case. Wanting to change something about our environment may reflect that the true change we need to make is internal.  We are joined by Dr Lisa Marie Bobby, host of the Love, Happiness and Success podcast as she talks us through the unexpected ways we can unlock and begin our next chapter in life. Listen now!    Follow Dr Lisa: https://www.instagram.com/drlisamariebobby/?hl=en  Her website: https://www.the-happiness-class.com/?page_id=30819  Follow me on Instagram: @jemmasbeg Follow the podcast on Instagram: @thatpsychologypodcast    See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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trust your girlfriends. Listen to the girlfriends. Trust me, babe, on the Iheart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hello everybody and welcome back to the psychology of your 20s, the podcast where we talk through some of the big life changes and transitions of our 20s and what they mean for our psychology. Hello everybody. Welcome back to the show. Welcome back to the podcast. New listeners, old listeners, wherever you are in the world. It is so great to have you here back for another episode where we break down this psychology of your 20s. Something that I think a lot of us struggle with, deal with, have on our minds is feeling kind of stagnant in the moment that

we're in and in our current life chapter or life season I guess and that is something I've personally been thinking about a lot the further I get into my 20s the more I'm kind of hungering for a life change and I thought why not bring on one of my favorite podcasts one of my favorite people actually who has helped me and given me advice even if she doesn't know it through her show love happiness and success to share some of her wisdom with us so well well Welcome, Dr. Lisa Marie-Bobby. Thank you for coming on the show. You are too kind, and I'm flattered and honored that you listen to the podcast, and it's so wonderful to know that it's been helpful for you.

I mean, that's fantastic. That's why I make them, so mission accomplished. Yeah, well, it's so interesting. I was saying this to you before, people always ask me, like, what do you listen to? And I'm like, I listen to this show. I listen to your show. I feel like it's so interesting because I'm sure a lot of people listen to this as their source of wisdom and their source of advice. But I think also like the advice giver also needs,

you know, the advice of others and also needs like the knowledge of others as well. So thank you so much for the work you do. Do you want to explain a little bit more about who you are, your approach, your maybe journey to where you are now? Yeah, no, I'm happy to. So, so yeah, Lisa Marie-Bobby, gosh, my journey starting in my 20s, trying to figure out what the heck I was going to do in the world. And I went through a period in my 20s where I felt very lost and unclear as well. And actually, we could talk more about this. So my pivotal moment in my 20s was 9-11. So the terrible, you know, terrorist attacks. My cousin actually was killed in, he, he, he was. He, he, he, worked at one of the World Trade Center buildings. It was awful. But it was this crisis where I was

like, what am I doing with my life? And it really led me to do a lot of personal soul searching. And it was right after that that I decided to go back to school to become a therapist, which I began in my 20s. I since became a marriage and family therapist and then did a doctoral degree, became a licensed psychologist, pursued coaching as a career path, which has been really exciting for me. And so I founded a private practice. It's called Growing Self-Counseling and Coaching. And we have, you know, 50-plus therapists running around here these days and also started the Love Happiness and Success Podcast, kind of as a hobby because I love, you know, talking about personal growth and self-development. And one of the values that I connected with when I was in my 20s related, you know, with everything

that I went through, realized how important it was for me personally to be of service to other people. And so that's why I started doing my podcast, just to like share things and advice and knowledge and put it out into the world. And that, I mean, so when you were talking about the fact that you enjoy the show and that you've benefited from it, like, that's why I do this. And I can't tell you how happy that just made me here. Oh, my goodness. Well, I'm so glad that I could, I don't know. I don't know if it's encouragement, but just to share the love, I guess it's so nice when people say that to me. So I'm sure that, yeah, it's good to pass that on to everybody who you also benefit.

from. I want to go back to that kind of pivotal moment because I feel like that is firstly so tragic. I'm so sorry that that happened but I think it's also something that a lot of people in their 20s might relate to having some major life change, some maybe not a tragedy but a major life event that kind of puts them onto a completely different path and in other senses, it can also be so gradual, right? Like this gradual loss of self, this gradual loss of belonging, this gradual sense of like, I just feel really stuck in my life. So why do you think that, why do you think we get to those points where we realize that we need a change? Is it just because of those things, those kind of extessential moments that make us question our purpose or is there

something deeper or something more gradual that happens there? Yeah. Well, I'll tell you a secret, actually, that I don't think is talked about enough in our culture, is that the reason we all grow is not despite the challenges and the hard times that we go through. It's really because of them. I'm a big believer in that we really kind of need to make contact with our dark emotions. And because that's like where a lot of our inner wisdom really is. And it's only when you go through something challenging if it's a crisis, like a building blowing up in a terrorist attack. That would be one example. But also, it really is a crisis when you get to this place in your life and you're like, I don't know who I am or what I want or what I'm doing.

Like to really like recognize that and sit with those feelings, it brings up a lot of pain. And that too can be its own kind of crisis that can catalyze a lot of really important growth work and personal development. And then I think people that are just kind of happy to be here and bopping along and feeling good, they don't get to do that. They don't have a reason to do that. And so I think the shift comes and really like appreciating the hard times for what they are, which are these fantastic opportunities that often go unrecognized. You know, we try to make it go away rather than understanding them for the gifts they are. Does that make sense? It makes so much sense.

It reminds me of this quote. my mom always says to me, which is you can either choose to be comfortable or you can choose to grow. And so it's in those moments of, yeah, in those moments of the greatest discomfort that we find ourselves changing the most for the better. But I still think that it's really difficult when you're, when you get to that point and you're like, it's interesting what you said. There are some people who are happy to just kind of go with the flow and happy to go along with the status quo. I'm sure that the people listening to this are perhaps not those people. and are perhaps facing a lot of confusion. How do you navigate that? How do you navigate feeling

simultaneously quite stuck and also wanting more for yourself? Like what are some of the steps to move into that next chapter of your life when you realize that perhaps you are unhappy? Yeah, that's a really good question. And it's a multi-layered answer. because I want to be honest with you and your listeners. And so to not give some trite-like thing. I mean, the truth really is that, first of all, it requires a period of exploration in order to understand what is at the core of the happiness and dissatisfaction.

And that in itself can be difficult to wrap your arms around sometimes. You know, like the sort of nebulous dissatisfaction bit being. able to get clarity and articulate what it's attached to. And so like that's one of the reasons why it can be helpful either to talk to a therapist or also like just to do some journaling is to get under your own hood and like what is going on? Is it something that I'm doing that I actually don't like that much? Is it something that I'm not doing? Like am I missing something that I wish was here?

But that's really the first chapter, is just beginning to get clarity around who you are, what you want, and like naming the pain points. Once that's clear, then you can begin to develop a vision of a life that had the changes that were in alignment with how you imagine. You know, things would be for you to feel happier. but that growth can also go in a different direction too that I'm happy to share more about if it would be helpful. The other thing, there are two pieces of this. One piece is that sometimes the reason we feel dissatisfied is that we're living a life that is not really in alignment with who we are, what our

values are, what we want. And it's important to understand that. so that you can make a plan to change your life circumstances so that it's more congruent with who you are and what you really want. That's kind of door number one. The other thing that is also true is that many times it's not our life circumstances at all that are leading to our feeling unhappy or dissatisfied. It's more about how we are functioning on the inside so that if we don't do that internal work, It doesn't matter how differently your life changes in terms of the day to day, because you're still going to feel the same way you do right now. I honestly really relate to that.

I feel like I've had points where I felt that if I just change something about my circumstances, everything else will fall into place. I moved to Sydney with that belief where I was like, all right, the source of all my problems is this town that I'm living in. and if I just change my environment, I'm going to change everything else that comes with it. And you realize that your problems do not leave you if you think that you're leaving them behind. Like they are so much more internal than they are external. Can you explain that a little bit more in terms of how to manage that?

Because I feel like the first option there to realize that you're dissatisfied because it doesn't match the vision of your life, engage in some of that exploration and find something perhaps more purposeful. That, although it is still difficult, feels like the simpler path. But that second path of being like, actually there is something internally that is making you realize that you are dissatisfied and unfulfilled and creating all of these other like secondary mental consequences. That sounds like such a maze.

Yeah, it absolutely is. And it's so easy for all of us to get tricked into believing that. You know, I'll be happy when I have a different career. I live in a different place. Or I'll be in a relationship or, you know, meet some health goal, right? And this was actually researched pretty extensively. Martin Seligman, he was a past president of APA, and he's one of the thought leaders around the School of Psychology called Positive Psychology. And he identified this a long time ago, and he called it the hedonic treadmill. And so what it is is this belief that, you know, we all pursue these goals or these changes or these circumstances getting the career or the house or a new car or whatever.

And then arrive at whatever, you know, the top of that mountain was and discover that we feel pretty much the same way that we did before we achieved whatever those goals were. And now it's absolutely valuable to design a life that you want to live in, right? And pursue circumstances and life experiences that you feel good about. Nobody's mad at that. But the work that we're talking about now is really getting under the hood to understand why your sort of emotional thermostat is set at this kind of constant level, no matter what. That work requires understanding a number of different things, how you're talking.

talking to yourself has a lot to do with it, like the kind of relationship that you're having with yourself, your inner dialogue can be a big piece of that. Also, I think managing your expectations for who you are and like what life is supposed to feel like is a big piece of that. And I think, you know, especially on the theme of your podcast. I mean, the psychology of your 20s, I think that a lot of us, and I certainly had this when I was in my 20s, have these, ideas about the way things are supposed to be or like how other people feel like happier, better than I do. And I think it takes a while to arrive at the fact that a lot of life is pretty, you know, we have ups and downs and to feel kind of average or neutral a lot of the time is

actually normal. And when people are thinking that they should be feeling differently than life is actually like can make them worry that something is wrong. You see this with people in long-term relationships or dating or, you know, in a career. And I think there's a lot of actually long-term satisfaction and inner peace that comes from embracing the fact that all of life is kind of a mixed bag and that peak experiences can happen and we can have moments of joy. But a lot of life is just fairly neutral. So then the work becomes how to find gratitude and meeting and appreciation and satisfaction in the things that are really pretty ordinary because the anxiety that like something is wrong is one of the things that will reliably make you feel dissatisfied no matter what.

Yeah. And that social comparison as well, I guess. Like I think that is the biggest thief of joy of people in our 20s and I hear it all the time we have this constant source of comparison being social media where I can look online and see someone's impeccable highlight

reel of all of the best moments of their life and the blanks, those days that they don't feel great and not filled in and sometimes I know that I'm guilty of doing this as well like I was telling you I've been quite ill these

last few weeks, there's nothing really going on in my camera role or my life right now. Like, I'm not going to big events. I'm not celebrating career milestones. I'm not partying or anything like that. I'm just in like a bit of a rut stage, like a bit of a flag stage. And I'm not posting about that online. I'm not giving people the candid side of things. And I think that that is so spot on what you just said of look at your. of that false belief that everyone else is happier than us, that something should be a certain way, is really robbing us of our ability to be deeply satisfied in what we have.

Yeah, absolutely. I completely agree because, you know, there's so much image management and the things that go out into the world versus the reality of what day-to-day life is actually like and how, you know, just maddening and frustrating it could, Be, so example, right? If you look at my social media stuff, there's reels and like the business and the podcast and giving people advice, like I know what I'm doing. And just this morning, trying to order pizzas online. I have people coming over later today for Halloween. Couldn't find my bank card

anywhere. And then when I did try to use the bank card, it's like, you know, I had to move money to the debit account. It's like just all these tiny little frustrations. And then like I hadn't put the laundry away so I couldn't find the sweater that I wanted to wear. It's just one thing after another, right? And these are all like little minor irritations, but I was like, ah! And none of that goes out into the world. And so even for me, like, I've been working on this stuff for 20 years. And I'm thinking, why am I getting so stressed out about all this stuff?

And like, my house is a wreck. I can't find anything. And just blah, blah, blah, blah. And really, like, feeling so annoyed. And then had to, like, talk myself down, use all these skills, like, shift my thoughts to a better feeling place so that I could go into work, you know, and have a reasonably nice day. But it's so easy to go down that rabbit hole of like, what is wrong with me? And especially when it comes to relationships, oh my goodness, like I can't tell you how many clients I've worked with that,

you know, they've been single, they want a partner, they get into a relationship, you know, they meet a nice person who is annoying and disappointing in their own ways and just, like this, you know, everybody's a mixed bag. Like, this is, you're going to have some of these experiences in every relationship, but there's some, you know, perfectionistic ideal in their mind that makes them feel so badly about the relationship or the life that they have. It's hard. Oh, I can imagine that so hard.

It's something I've actually encountered where I've, I'm in a long-term relationship now, but when we first started dating, I was like, why does this feel boring? like this and it felt so safe that I was like this feels boring everyone's told me that there needs to be this like insane intimacy and passion and chemistry chemistry and I was like yeah and I was like there is chemistry and there's compatibility but this person is not like making me run on a treadmill for their affection that's what I feel like is exciting I feel like I've gone off on a tangent because I'm just like laughing up your words here but it's probably my fault I'm known for going off on random tangents. So welcome to my world. So am I. I feel like that we're match made in heaven.

But I feel like to bring it back to that idea of starting that next chapter in your life, perhaps the first way to do that is to appreciate, to gain a more realistic view of what life actually is. And that's not to say that life isn't going to be full of surprises and full of excitement and full of amazing moments, but that that is not going to be happening all of the time. Like changing something external about your life isn't going to suddenly remove what is the deepest satisfaction from self-comparison or social comparison

or from unrealistic expectations about how you should be feeling on a day to day. So I feel like that's our first collective tip on moving to the next chapter. Well, and even to add to that is to, in that work of wanting a new chapter to get under our hoods, doing some journaling, talking to a counselor or a coach around what are my themes. What have been the patterns and the repeating experiences that I've had in all of these different chapters that I've had so far, because that can give you insight into some of those inner changes that we need to make in order to have an actually different experience in the next chapter that we want to create. What are some of those themes?

Because I'm trying to think of some in my own life and I'm getting stuck. Yeah. Okay. Well, I mean, themes could include feeling persistently dissatisfied in relationships and having this grass is greener thing going on. you know, no matter who you're with. And so the patterns would be ending relationships with perfectly nice people because you don't feel the chemistry or you're not having like this next level experience

that you think that you're going to have. Changing jobs or moving. Like I think when you've cycled through what you were talking about, like moving to Sydney and like I made all these changes and why do I still feel the same way, you know? That can help give insight into what's really going on. Let's see, what would be examples of other themes? You know, the day-to-day things that stress you out, like you're kind of, how do I usually feel on the inside?

If you can quantify those and articulate them, that helps you understand what the next chapter could really involve. It would be a substantial change. So like an example in my own life, as you may have inferred from the previous story about not being able to find the debit card and the laundry still isn't put away. So I am a lifelong individual who has an ADHD. I didn't know that when I was younger. In my 20s, I had no idea that that's part of what was going on for me.

And it was in my 30s, actually, like finally connecting those dots. But I had to go through a period of time where all of these different chapters of my life, the common theme was feeling disorganized, feeling kind of chaotic, feeling like, you know, not really showing up in the way that I wanted to. And so it was really funny, okay, what's the common theme here? It wasn't, it wasn't the environment. What's happening in terms of my practices and ways of being that's contributing to me having these experiences over and over and over again? And obviously, still a work in progress, but like being able to identify the kinds of systems or practices that can help us be more of what we want to be and how feel more of how we want to feel

is really the long-term solution when it comes to designing that new chapter that's based on the outcomes you want to have. That makes so much sense. I also feel like I'm really sitting here being like, oh, I need to probably identify my themes because that one of moving is incredibly relevant to me. Like, I always get this. I feel like it's interesting. I came into this really wanting to talk to you about this, you know, starting this new

chapter in life because I was like, oh, I'm considering moving. And then you said, what are the themes? And I was like, ah, every time I start to feel a little bit stagnant or bored, I immediately am like, you know what's going to make me feel better? A move. A move. I'm like, because nothing is more exciting in life, more of a challenge than a move. It's like, how can life be boring when you're trying to make new friends?

When you're discovering a completely novel environment, when you're building a new life, decorating a new home, like all of those things. And so I've really, I'm sitting back and thinking about it. In some cases, though, I do think that we do need to take risks. like that. Like there are moments where it's like it might actually be that there is something in your external life that is not right for you, right? It might, it might be that you are working a job or in a career that is deeply unfulfilling and you've always had this sense of I want to do something more, I want to do something different, maybe I want to do something more creative. How do we approach that to know that that is actually what we want to do versus what we

feel like will make us happier? I think that our approach to risks in that sense, I always promote risk-taking, not like jumping off a bridge or whatever, but like risk-taking in the sense that like it's better to do the thing than to not do the thing you'll minimise regret in the future. Is that always the case when we're thinking about big life-time? changes. I'll say this like a true therapist. It depends. Absolutely. I mean to have the confidence and the courage to take risks in service of, you know, your goals, your values, the life you want. I completely agree with that. And I think there, for me, from my perspective, no, no bigger regret than not doing something that you wanted to do. And especially, you know, talking with people sometimes at the end of

their lives, that's what they talk about, aren't the things they did. It was the things that they didn't do. So I think there's a lot of wisdom in that. I also think that you really touched on something important, though, which is this theme, this pattern of how do I know if I'm taking a risk that is going to get me to a different place where I will feel differently and I'll finally feel more satisfied or whether or not I'm putting myself in a different place. You know, putting myself into a new situation with these false expectations that it's the circumstances that are going to change the way I feel. And so obviously, I don't want to start unpacking your stuff here on your podcast in front of all of your listeners. Well, questions I would, you know, encourage

everybody to be thinking about or doing some journaling about is what do I imagine would be different for me if I lived in a different or a different career, for example, and be specific. You know, like how would I be feeling and why? And as you're asking yourself those questions, be thinking about, is this connected to my values or my meaning? And why am I attaching it to this specific career or relationship or location that I might be moving to. And the real power question is what would need to be different about the way I was

showing up here and now if I wanted to feel this way, write this very second. To begin to differentiate, like, am I chasing a false idea and missing the opportunity for growing in place? I see this oftentimes in people who change careers, right? They've decided that there's something about their job or their employer or whatever that doesn't feel good for them anymore and sometimes legitimately that's true they have better opportunities elsewhere so godspeed go do that but when people just get out of one job and into another without really growing in place and thinking about what is actually going on with me that I'm feeling so stressed out about my job they don't get to uncover the fact that maybe it's difficult for them to manage their time effectively or set

boundaries or organize their work in a way to be effective. But they don't look at how they're operating in their job. They attach it to the job itself. And in doing so, lose a really great opportunity for personal growth. I also feel like it's this fear of a sense of stagnation as well, a fear of a sense of am I going to waste my life doing this thing? Am I going to waste my life in this job? Am I going to waste my life

in this relationship? Am I going to waste my life in this city around these people? And it's that fear of, I think it's almost like existential dread of being like I understand and I I guess we as a collective understand that we really only get one life

based on your beliefs. That's what I believe you get one life, you have to live it as best as you can. And I think sometimes being so fearful that we're not living in as best as we can actually creates patterns of behavior, as you were saying, that may be a form of self-sabotage, right? Actually undermining our true sense of purpose, our true vision, our true dedication to our actual selves, because we're pursuing a different version of us that has been created by fear, like a fear of not doing enough, a fear of missing out. How do we approach that with balance? The balance of like, yes, taking risks is part of how I see my life. For example, like going and doing a bunch of solo travel is something that I see is

integral to my life. Hiking Everest is one of my biggest life goals or yes, I do. Yes, I do want to, you know, move to a new city where I know nobody. How can we manage both of those needs? The need to, firstly, have a stable sense of self and do that self-work of like, maybe this is internal, versus the need to also push beyond our comfort zone in ways that might leave us feeling perhaps more lost or might make us feel more content. Does that make sense? Do you understand this balance that I'm trying to really get to me? I do. I do. I think what you're saying is like almost how to know what to trust and like what is the path that would help you. And so I guess what what I would be thinking about is drilling down into the values that are defining your sense of what is important.

Like you use this phrase, like, I don't want to waste my life. And so what would be happening if your life were wasted? And like to use your example, there was a value around, experiencing new things, like having adventures, novelty, right, like pushing your limits. Those are values. And so it's like what you're saying is that if I'm not expressing these values, that would mean that my life wasn't worth living, that I had wasted my life somehow. And so I think there's a lot of valuable exploration that comes from getting into what is valuable and meaningful to each of us as individuals. So like going back to the story that I started with,

when I was in my 20s and this huge new chapter opened up for me, I had been working in jobs where I was just kind of there. It wasn't really attached to any personal meaning or any of my own life values. and I wasn't clear at that time about what those things were. And it was only after, you know, going through that crisis, right? And thinking about I could die at any second. My cousin Jimmy was in his office on the top of the World Trade Center, mining his own business, drinking a cup of coffee at 9 o'clock in the morning,

and an airplane came through the window. And it just like took away the certainty that your life is just going to like go on forever. And so it pushed me into contact with this idea. of, you know, at the end of my life, looking back, what would have been made my life worth living? And part of that really was, I want to be of service to other people. Like if I could figure out a way to help other people grow or be helpful to them in some ways, and that could go in a lot of different directions in terms of a career path, but in order for me to feel like my life had been worth something, it would have been making a positive impact in the lives of other people.

But that's the kind of value exploration I'm talking about because when we can understand that, that's where you begin to feel confident about I'm making the right decision because you're comparing your life choices to the values that you've clarified for yourself. Does that make sense? Oh, my goodness, yes. Absolutely. That makes so much sense to me. And I think it's so interesting because.

we're talking about, you know, starting the next chapter in your life. Right. And maybe like the next chapter is not that big life change that you feel you need to make. It's actually sitting down and that self-appraisal and that real deep dive into what do I actually want from my life? What are my values here? What is my vision? And I think what is genuinely going to make me happy and satisfied? in the long term rather than just as an instantaneous kind of blip on the radar,

like a little bit of an outlier. You know, like I think back to that example of people to leave relationships with people that they might deeply love just because they don't meet some vision for what they, for a fairytale romance, obviously that's totally your call. But I think it's interesting that that actually might leave us in a place where we are alone, even though our struggle has been to not be alone. So it's kind of counter to what we actually expected it to be the outcome. And also it counter to perhaps our vision and our value to find someone we love and settle down

and have them in our life. So I think that was excellent advice. And I feel like perhaps different than what people expected. I know. But that's the thing. I think when you get clear about your values, it then becomes easy to make decisions on a day-to-day basis because all you have to do is compare a course of action. Is this an alignment with my values or not?

Another piece of this to try to get that clarity around going into a next chapter, taking a risk and being reasonably confident that it's the right risk. So for example, me, going back to counseling school, tons of money, tons of time. I don't. didn't know if I was going to like it as a career, but having that values clarity helped me be like, I'm going to try this. I'm going to try this. And I'm glad I did. But the other thing to be aware of is that it's not just that we hold values. And so it could be adventure, being of service, family, unconditional love, financial security, spirituality, all of these. But it's also organizing these values in terms of importance because somebody whose value of financial security is a higher

priority value than being generous or having adventures, their life is going to look very different because they're going to be making choices that prioritizes one value over another. So that's where, you know, a lot of introspection and self-clairity becomes very important when you're thinking about designing a new chapter. Yeah, understanding what you're actually motivated by as well, I think. Correct. That's exactly it. Two percent. That is the number of people who take the stairs when there is also an escalator available. I'm Michael Easter. And on my podcast, 2%. I break down the science of mental toughness, fitness, and building resilience in our strange modern world. I'll be speaking with writers, researchers, and other health and fitness experts,

and more to look past the impractical and way too complex pseudoscience that dominates the wellness industry. We really believe that seed oils were inherently inflammatory. We got it wrong. Many of the problems that we are freaked out about in the world are the result of stress. Put yourself through some hardships, and you will come out on the other side a happier, more fulfilled, healthier person. Listen to 2%. That's T-W-O-P-Cent on the I-Hard. radio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Do you remember when Diana Ross double-tap Little Kim's boobs at the VMAs?

Or when Kanye said that George Bush didn't like black people. I know what you're thinking. What the hell does George Bush got to do with Little Kim? Well, you can find out on the Look Back at it podcast. I'm Sam Jek. And I'm Alex English. Each episode, we pick a here, unpack what went down, and try to make sense of how we survived it. Including a recent episode with Mark Lamont Hill,

waxing all about crack in the 80s. To be clear, 84 was big to me, not just because of crack. I'm down to talk about crack all day, but just so you all know. I mean, at this point, this is the second episode where we've discussed crack. So I'm starting to see that there's a through line. We also have AIDS on the table right now. Thank you for finishing that sentence. Yes.

I don't think there's a more important year for black people. Really? Yeah. For me, it's one of the most important years for black people in American history. Listen to look back at it on the IHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Welcome to my new podcast, Learn the Hardway with me, your host, and your favorite therapist, Kear Games. And in recognition of Mental Health Awareness Month, I'm bringing over a decade of my own experience in the mental health field and conversations with so many incredible guests. I'm talking, Tripp Fontaine, Ryan Clark.

Sometimes when we're in the pursuit of the thing, we get so wrapped up in the chase that we don't realize that we, are in possession of the thing, and we're still chasing it, and we don't know when we've done enough. Because people scoreboard watch. Life becomes about wins and losses. Steve Burns, Dustin Ross, because you find it important to be a good person while you hear on earth, or are you a good person because you're afraid? Because that's two different intentions, bro. Absolutely. And that's two different levels of trust.

I want you to just really be a good person. Join me, Kear Gaines, is we have real conversations about healing, growth, fatherhood, pressure, and personal. on my new podcast, Learn the Hardway. Open your free iHeartRadio app. Search Learn the Hardway and listen now. In 2023, former Bachelor star Clayton Eckerd found himself at the center of a paternity scandal. The family court hearings that followed

revealed glaring inconsistencies in her story. This began a years-long court battle to prove the truth. You doctored this particular test twice in someone, correct? I doctored the test once. It took an army of internet detectives to crack the case. I wanted people to be able to see what their tax dollars were being used for. Sunlight's the greatest disinfected.

They would uncover a disturbing pattern. Two more men who'd been through the same thing. Gregalespian and Michael Marantini. My mind was blown. I'm Stephanie Young. This is Love Trap. Laura, Scottsdale Police. As the season continues, Laura Owens finally faces consequences.

Ladies and gentlemen, breaking news at Americopa County as Laura Owens has been indicted on fraud charges. This isn't over until justice is served in Arizona. Listen to Love Trapped Podcast on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. So I feel like you've created a lot of self-interrespection for me and things for me to go away with. I hope that there are others who are listening to this who were perhaps contemplating ending a relationship, starting a new career, quitting a job that they once thought was their dream job, who are better able to sit back and be like, is this new life chapter really what I think it is?

Or is it kind of a proxy for not wanting to change something internally that's going to leave me to satisfy no matter where I am? So I want to thank you so much for coming on to the show and for joining us. Oh, well, thank you again for inviting me. This is a great conversation. And I do hope that this conversation was helpful for your listeners and starting to get clarity and confidence to know what the next chapter involves. Is it changing circumstances, doing some personal growth work that changes their own inner landscape,

but the real value is getting clear on our meaning, our values, our purpose, and then making decisions that are based on that. Absolutely. I feel like that is such a valuable insight. valuable advice. So thank you so much for sharing it. Like it was, yeah, it was a, it was a beautiful episode. So thank you for coming on. Where can people find you? Obviously, we've spoken about your own podcast if they want to listen to more love happiness and success. Do you have an Instagram? Do you have anywhere they can follow along with your journey and

what you're working on? Oh, thank you for asking. Yes, love happiness and success podcast. Welcome to Listen. I recently started doing this video versions. They could come hang out in my office on YouTube for the Love Happiness and Success podcast. Also, yes, certainly do Instagram at Dr. Lisa Marie Bobby. But really on my website, Growingself.com. So there, another value and source of meaning for me is being able to write and put information out to the world. And so there is an extensive blog with all kinds of articles and podcast playlists that I put together for people.

And for your listeners, if they come to the blog and podcast page, I have everything organized into like content collections. So to come into the happiness collection. And then there's a little cluster of articles and podcasts around holistic life design that I think would be really helpful for people who are in this space. of where do I go? What decision do I make in terms of relationship or career that would be more information for them on this topic and all completely free. I just put it out into the world because one of my values is being of service. So there we are. Yeah, so generous. I'm actually going to go look at that holistic life design. I'll send you a link. Yes, please do. I feel like so many of us in our 20s need that. Like I'm sure there are so many people listening to this being like, I am so

terribly absolutely lost. Some life design probably would really benefit me. So thank you for doing all of that for us, for people like me. I just want to say again, really appreciate you coming on board. If you enjoyed this episode, please feel free to leave a five-star review on Apple Podcast, Spotify, wherever you are listening right now and make sure that you are following for future episodes. If you also have a future episode suggestion or you just want to reach out, you just want to chat, You want to see what's going on behind the scenes. You can follow along at That Psychology Podcast on Instagram. And as always, we will be back next week with another episode.

Hey, what's good, y'all? You're listening to Learn the Hardway with your favorite therapist and host Kear Games. This space is about black men's experiences, having honest conversations that it's really not safe to have anywhere, but you're having them with a licensed professional who knows what he's doing. How many men carry a suit are armored. It signals to the world that you're not to be played with. And just because you have the capability that does not mean that you need to. Listen to learn the hard way on the AHA radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast.

In 2023, Bachelor star Clayton Eckerd was accused of fathering twins. But the pregnancy appeared to be a hoax. You doctored this particular test twice, Ms. Owens, correct? I doctored the test ones. It took an army of internet detectives to uncover a disturbing pattern. Two more men who'd been through the same thing. Greg Gillespie and Michael Ranchini. My mind was blown.

I'm Stephanie Young. This is Love Trapped. Laura, Scottsdale Police. As the season continues, Laura Owens finally faces consequences. Listen to Love Trapped podcast on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. 2%. That's the number of people who take the stairs. when there is also an escalator available.

I'm Michael Easter. I'm on my podcast, 2%. I break down the signs of mental toughness, fitness, and building resilience in our strange modern world. Put yourself through some hardships, and you will come out on the other side a happier, more fulfilled,

healthier person. Listen to 2%. That's TWO%. On the IHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. When a group of women discover they've all dated the same prolific con artist. They take matters into their own hands.

I vowed. I will be his last target. He is not going to get away with this. He's going to get what he deserves. We always say that, trust your girlfriends. Listen to the girlfriends. Trust me, babe. On the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

This is an IHeart podcast. Guaranteed human. Thank you.