The Psychology of your 20s - 204. Should we be thinking about kids in our 20s?

Episode Date: June 14, 2024

The thought of having children in our 20s feels like an incredibly adult decision, and is one a lot of us probably don't consider. We want to protect our youth and our freedom a little bit longer, or perhaps have decided we probably will never want children. But whether you want to have children or not, having a clear understanding of your future intentions or choices, your reproductive health, the kind of person who might make a good partner, and therefore parent, is important. More information, more foresight actually equals greater freedom and sometimes time to decide.  We break down:  Why you should be thinking in your 20s The pros and cons of having children in your 20s  The argument for NOT having children  Fertility Milestone anxiety and the pressure to find someone  Your stories of pregnancy, parenthood and fertility in your 20s Listen now!  Follow Jemma on Instagram: @jemmasbeg Follow the podcast on Instagram: @thatpsychologypodcast  For business enquiries: [e-mail]  See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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new listeners, old listeners, wherever you are in the world. It is so great to have you here back for another episode as we of course break down the psychology of our 20s. Today, let's talk about something that I don't think I have ever spoken about on the podcast before. Having kids, having babies, having children. It might seem so far off for some of us and so adult, but for other people, it is right around the corner. It is part of their future two, five, 10 year plan. And although I definitely think we've passed the days when we were kind of expected to have children by 22 or 23, it is definitely something that a lot of us start considering in our 20s, whether children are part of our future, whether maybe we want to be younger parents or whether we want to focus on our careers

and wait, regardless of your kind of preferences, regardless of what you want to do in your life. I do think that talking about children as a possibility, thinking about their role in our future is something that we really do need to start thinking about during this decade, as adult and mature as it seems. You know, I'm 24 at the moment, and I always, for the longest time, was convinced that I did not want kids. I didn't want a family of my own, especially when I was a teenager. I had these very huge exaggerated fantasies of, like, being the archetype of the fun, drunk, single art, traveling around the world, like, collecting, I was going to say, trophies, collecting trinkets, you know, this whole fabulous vision. And people would always tell me that I would change my mind.

I really resented that. I honestly still don't believe that everybody does change their mind. But let me tell you something. I turned 23 and it was like suddenly I was sure and I was sure that I wanted children and it was like something had clicked in my brain that I wanted to be a mum done, you know, a mom someday and it really startled me and for the first time it really had me considering things like parenting, things like fertility and it brought a new lens to my health and who I was dating. And of course, when that happened, I turned to my friends about it because that is my main source of wisdom and so many of them had experienced something similar. Some of my friends who had always been very, you know, firm in their decision that they did not

want children, they remained firm. Others like me had like shifted entirely and, you know, it's like I turned 24 and suddenly I've had more conversations about egg freezing than I have ever had before and so many people are talking to me about fertility or starting to really care that their period is consistent or about what they're eating and their health and I want to talk about it when do we really need to start thinking about kids do we need to start thinking about it in our 20s or at all what are the factors that we need to consider what about when it comes to our romantic life the pressure to find somebody is it all too adult too soon and should we kind of preserve our youth for as long as possible.

You know, there are so many questions that come up around this. And it's so easy to kind of just like put it off. I'm going to make the argument for why thinking about it is actually going to give you more freedom and more choice than not thinking about it. And we also heard from a few listeners who have children who are expecting in their 20s about how they knew when they were ready and what we can learn from their experiences when it comes to family and future planning. So without further ado, it's a much different episode today,

but one that I am so excited about. Let's get into it. Having children is such a distinctively adult conversation, regardless of where you are at in your 20s. It is still so shocking to hear from my friends in their late 20s or early 30s that they're expecting children. Because it's kind of like you've hit a strange fork in the road, like an intersection of sorts,

People's life paths split and children and I think also, you know, marriage to some extent, but that like is where the split occurs. Some of us are still getting super drunk on the weekends. Some of us don't have a dollar in savings, but there are other people posting, you know, engagement announcements or getting IVF or going to OBGYN appointments. Everyone's path is super different. But I think for many of us, we are in a few minds when it comes to whether it's even, you know, the time to consider whether kids are part of the plan, let alone start trying to have kids. If we aren't sure, do we need to decide now?

Or can we, you know, it kind of feels like even thinking about it pops the bubble a little bit. It pops the bubble of being carefree and young. Because once you do start considering it, some really big things come up. you know, especially not just in terms of like, do you want to start considering whether you should have kids now? It's even the question of like, do I want to consider whether I want kids at all and when I might want to start? What comes up with that is questions around like ethics and climate change and recession and like the world that we would be bringing children into. And it's almost like once you are like, yeah, maybe I do want children. Is that when you have to start.

making a plan, is that when we kind of start to feel strapped to a timeline? Because once we start thinking about kids, there is this acknowledgement that there is a bit of a to-do list that comes with that. You know, you have to find a suitable partner or most people would prefer to have a partner with them to raise a child. You have to kind of get your finances sorted, get your life sorted before a window closes. And for women, obviously, that window is our biological clock. And, you know, typically I really hate that phrase because it very much connotes that like when the clock hits zero we expire or we are past our worth that we've run out of time you know as if our lives don't continue whether we have children or not but that is what we know it as colloquially and we also know that there is like a deadline for

reproduction not to make it sound so clinical but around you know 30 to 35 our ability to have children declines and it continues on that kind of plane it continues to decline before menopause so knowing that does that change how we live our 20s even if we don't want to start having kids to our 30s knowing that it might be more difficult and the thing that I often hear from people is like if children are a certainty in my life plan why not do it in my 20s because there is a great chance that I can have children naturally. There's a greater chance that I'll be around longer and I might have more of that support system in my parents, in my grandparents, even, you know, some of us are so lucky to still have, you know, both sets of grandparents alive. I can bounce back

from a career break easier. Like there are a lot of pros, but there are also a lot of cons, right? the loss of freedom, the quick change in life trajectory compared to all of our friends, the money, that's a huge one, the money. Children are so expensive. But also, it's this like capacity and this lifestyle that we would be giving up. So that I think is the thing that really contributes to the decision to have kids in our 20s or to even consider it. Because even if you do want to have kids eventually in your 30s, there is kind of an acknowledgement that there is a chapter that will close when that decision is made. And of course there is a chapter for everything, but I think the chapter that you are in without children is one of immense freedom. It's being able to go out

for drinks or out for dinner with your friends any night of the week. It's, you know, coming home when you feel like it. It is having the freedom to travel where and when you would like. It is having the freedom to sleep in or, you know, to just actually be in control of your life. And there is a brief window where we truly get that after we turn 18 to when we might, you know, have kids. Obviously, if you don't end up having kids, you literally, you win the lot of you. You get to have that freedom for the rest of your life. Congratulations. But, you know, if you want to have kids at some point, like you're likely going to want to start trying before you're like 40. So that's like 22 years to like get it all out of your system, to travel where you want,

to do what you want, like maybe max. You might want to start trying early. You might not want to have like a geriatric pregnancy. When you like, I'm obviously spiraling here, but it's the case that when you start thinking about it, you start thinking about how much this decision might impact other areas of your life. If it's not just around like, yeah, I want to have a baby. It's work decisions. Will you be able to have a career break?

Do you want to climb the corporate ladder or not? It's travel plans. Do I want to... Are there places that I wouldn't be able to go with kids that I want to go now? Are there experiences that I want to have that I know are going to become more difficult? Like solo traveling, you obviously can't solo travel if you have a baby. Because the baby's got to be there. Big factor.

And then dating, dating. Do you, like, how serious are you going to get? How quickly? And I think that when you have this acknowledgement of like, okay, no, eventually I do want kids and I know that it might be easier to try. Like, in my late 20s or my early 30s, it might put a lot more pressure on the people that you are romantically interested in. So I was speaking to a friend about this very component the other day. And obviously we are, you know, in a day and age where it's not like a man and woman need to like get together at 22 and have babies by 25 otherwise. Like that's it.

You're not going to reproduce. There are so many other options. There is IVF. There is adoption. There is surrogacy. So many things. But, you know, sometimes the dream is to have somebody to do it all with, to have a partner to help raise your child, especially. a partner that we love that can feel so special.

But it also ups the stakes if you haven't already kind of found that person and you're getting older. You're not just facing the stigma of a society that puts romantic love on a pedestal and pity singleness, but it's also really confronting to realize that the key to unlocking your life plan rests in a stranger that you're yet to meet. And it's kind of like, how do you rush something that isn't always up to you? how do you tick this off your list to make it sound super, super clinical? And I was speaking to a friend about that and how she is now in her kind of like early 30s and how

stressful it is, that it's no longer just about finding a connection. Because yes, of course, that obviously is the most important thing. But it's also about making sure that you're on the same page. She said to me, she was like, when I decided that yes, I did want kids, it wasn't about that I wanted kids in my 20s, I just wanted them eventually. Everything else became a lot more serious. And she was like, I realized that I'm getting to an age where I don't have the luxury of getting to know you.

Like, I don't have the luxury of like, let's figure it out. It was like, no, if I'm going to spend a year dating you or a couple of years, I want to know that we are on the same page about kids or about family, about values. and the timeline for things really shifts. Not that you are rushing it. Hopefully you are not rushing it. But it's more that there is a directness and an intentionality. And it's more like you have to make calls about big things like kids earlier on

and make sure that you're on the same page. And when you're 19 or 22, you know, you kind of have time to have your doubts. You can date people that you probably don't think is going to be the one. and it's not going to really hurt your long-term chances of creating the dream life with the kids or without the kids. You can have those kind of fairy tale conversations about the future without needing to enact plans right away, but that changes the order you get. And it definitely is probably going to give you a fairly large dose of milestone anxiety. If you kind of wake up to the conclusion that children are part of your life plan

and that part of getting there is finding somebody and you haven't done that yet. and the reason I say milestone anxiety specifically is because that really derives from a sense that you are not where you want to be in life or where you should be. It can still feel like there is this key ingredient that you are missing. And although milestone anxiety is typically applied to things like career or financial goals, when it does come to relationships, I think it's a lot more complicated because it's not like there is a formula for success or a correlation between FAA. and output. It is so influenced by things like chance and timing. And if you believe in it, fate. So I think it's really hard to not feel in control of something so significant for the life you dream of. And even when I think everything goes according to plan, right, even if you are, you know, you've assessed your emotional preparedness, you've assessed your financial preparedness,

your social preparedness, the strength of your relationship, you are in a relationship, you're both ready to have kids, you know, and you've been like, yeah, I'm going to start in my 20s. I'm going to, this is what I want, I want to be a younger parent. This is just what feels right for me. Sometimes it doesn't always work out the way that we want it. You can be absolutely sure of your decision and life can still throw you curveballs. And a big one that I think a lot of us in our early 20s in particular don't think about is fertility, not just like the biological clock, but also kind of, I whether we're able to even have kids, the state of all those other systems. This is just not something that we think about when we are 20 or 21.

But the older you get, you start to hear stories. One of the stories, well, something that I was, it's not a story. It's somebody's, you know, lived experience. The experiences of a friend of mine who, I think, really woke me up to this a couple of years ago, she started having like these really weird symptoms and problems with like her period and with other things and she went to the doctor and i'm not going to disclose exactly what she had what happened but basically they said to her that her chances of having like a natural pregnancy were incredibly low and that if she and her partner wanted to have kids they had to kind of start trying before she was like

28, 29. Like, she had to kind of get a wriggle on. That was essentially what the doctor suggested. This was such a wake-up call for her and for, I would say, the people around her as well, where we were kind of all in this, like, bubble of like, yeah, let's just like fuck around and find out. Like, we're having fun. We're focused on, like, graduating uni and like, yay, like dating around and, like, partying. And then it was suddenly like, oh, wait. I, I just, actually, you know, I think about my future only is my career, and I think about my future only as like, oh, meeting the love of my life and like getting ahead and like buying a house, but it's like, no, there is a part of this that is happening right now, my fertility, that I hadn't even

considered. And it really raised the question of, is it better to be prepared now or to live in blissful ignorance? Is it worth bursting the bubble of not knowing and almost immediately fast-forward your timeline if you do find out the news that she found out, which is that it might actually end up being really hard if she doesn't start now. Or is it just like better to just get to that problem when you get to it? Here's the thing. If you've always known that you want to be a parent and that is a huge facet of your identity and your goals and your future, I do think that it's worth just knowing in your 20s if that is something that is possible for you. Even if you don't feel responsible yet, knowledge is power, especially as all the science starts to improve. There was this episode of New Girl

that I watched a while back in which if you've watched New Girl, like, Cece goes in and like, Jess and Cece go in and they assess like their ability to have children. And it's like meant to be this fun thing, you know, like, oh, like, goofy, gougar, like, you know, when you like take a pregnancy test and like, you know it's going to be negative and, you know, you see those movies. it ends up positive. Like it was just meant to be, it's very much like that, meant to be like a funny thing. And Cece, it turns out, like, has very poor fertility and is like really unable, we'll be unable to like conceive naturally. And in that scene, she kind of talks about wishing that she had a magical wand to like go back to early 20s and like tell herself, like, be a little

bit more serious. So even if it does seem weird to be thinking about it now and even if it does seem pretty intense, intense. I think especially if you're a woman, see, you know, see this questioning around your fertility and your future capacity or desire to have children as an investment in your health. The same way that you want to live a long, healthy life, the same way that you want to have a really successful career. And so you are making investments in that right now. If you do want kids, it's important to be thinking about it sooner, rather than that. later. And I think what I began to realize was that the pressure doesn't increase, but is reduced by being able to make future decisions with full information that might actually derive from a

decision that you make right now. That is kind of like the appeal of egg freezing, right? Like, I've been reading so much stuff about egg freezing recently. The premise is that you kind of store your good DNA from when you're like in your early mid 30, 20s, sorry, for like later. When you're in like, your 30s or maybe even your 40s, so that it's kind of like insurance. You have time. You can delay the inevitable. It brings control back into the situation. Even if you end up not using those eggs, even if it's not something that you end up

deciding actually know, like, I don't want kids. Like, the climate crisis is too terrible. I just never met the right person. Like, I'm happy without them. It is the sense that, like, the decisions you make now give you the freedom in the future. It's like science has allowed us to control something we were never able to control before, which is time and biology. So that is kind of my argument for why I think it's important to firstly consider whether you even want kids in your 20s. And not in your 20s, like in your 20s consider whether you want kids in the future.

That's probably a better way to put it because the decisions that you make around your health and your fertility now may actually come back to help you. when you do decide in your 30s or 40s. And if you don't want kids, like, great, then you can, you know, start making a plan to live your life more the way that you want it to. And I think the other component is like, it's also important to think about whether you do want to have kids in your 20s, right? Whether like this is a better time, whether, like my friend's example, the knowledge that maybe it will get harder as you age and the older that you get, it's better to start in this moment. So I also wanted to hear from you guys, people who chose to have kids in their 20s, what they would want us to know, whether you're just considering, whether you're decided, or you're acting on it.

Stay with us for more after the break. 2%. That is the number of people who take the stairs when there is also an escalator available. I'm Michael Easter, and on my podcast, 2%. I break down the science of mental toughness, fitness, and building resilience in our strange modern world. I'll be speaking with writers, researchers, and other health and fitness experts, and more, to look past the impractical and way too complex pseudoscience that dominates the wellness industry. We really believe that seed oils were inherently inflammatory. We got it wrong. Many of the problems that we are freaked out about in the world are the result of stress.

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Listen to the girlfriends. Trust me, babe. On the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. There is obviously a perspective to this that I can't bring. I don't have kids, and as much as, you know, I was speaking about this weird maternal urge that suddenly popped up out of nowhere in the last year.

I really don't plan on it for the next, like, five to ten years. But I wanted to hear from people who, have thought about it a lot, especially people in their 20s who have decided to have children, perhaps earlier than what most of us would expect in this day and age, or people who have had to make big decisions about fertility in their 20s that feel really adult and feel like they are something that should have, you know, that they could have delayed but then couldn't. So I saw this actually really funny article before I read this first thing, that having children in your 20s is now like punk.

which is so funny and that's kind of like you know what I do I kind of get it because yet again when I hear about people having kids in their 20s it's not that I feel any certain way about it I'm just like oh that's different when actually it's not really it's not so I do want to hear about it I do want to hear from people about it about their decision their timeline when they started thinking about things and their fears so here is the first person that messaged us and I really love her perspective. I always knew I wanted to be a parent and had my baby girl at 23. I faced a lot of stigma that she was an accident.

Oh my God, sidebar. Why would you ever say that to somebody? That is so freaking rude. Anyhow, back to this person. I would face stigma that she was an accident when actually I'd been together with my now husband since we were 18 and it was part of our plan. I still lost friends who didn't get it and had people judge me,

but she is now five, and I like knowing that she was. would be 20 when I'm 43 and I can be a young parent as she grows up and keep up with her. See, that is the kind of perspective that I think we don't hear too often. People who, you know, had kids young and how that is actually like a really valuable thing for them. I think a lot of the time, and I will speak for myself here, you see people who have had children young and you're like, well, that's a bit different.

And you think about what they might be missing out because that wouldn't be your choice. but as this person said, like, no, she didn't, yes, she may have missed out in the sense that she lost friends that sound like they were never really her friends, but she gained so much. And I think when you are clear that that is going to be part of your plan, and when you have really considered it and thought about it, you can actually choose when it's going to work best for you. And for her, it sounded like when she was younger, that was really what was aligned with how she wanted to raise her child and she's doing it. So I really liked that input.

I thought that was really a perspective, a side of things that we don't always hear. Here is another person who wrote in. I found out that I had half a uterus when I was 21, and that just put everything into perspective then and there. It felt like I aged out of my friend group immediately, and no one could understand how my life felt different because suddenly I was thinking about decisions they didn't have to make for years. Whoa.

That was three years ago. still don't have a partner, but I feel more at peace with the fact that I'll be okay if it doesn't work out because I had time and more time to consider whether this was even for me. I'm glad I got to be okay with what could happen and not be really excited about it when I was 30 and married, then find out the hard way. Yes, it was hard, but now I know more about my values and priorities than I did before I found out about my uterus. Why did I say it like that? My uterus.

Thank you. Thank you for sharing. It really comes back to that point. You know, kids aren't everything at the end of the day. You don't need to reproduce to have a purpose. But maybe to paraphrase what you're saying, it seems like at the end of the day, it's about having choice.

That's what feels meaningful here. And choice also comes from knowledge. And knowing more in your 20s, even if it might up the stakes actually lets you have time to consider things and to consider what you want in the long term and the alternatives to that ultimate choice. Let's hear from one more person. Hi, I'm so glad that you were talking about this because I feel like it is so weird amongst my group when I bring this up.

People want to stay young, thinking about kids feels old. I made the decision to freeze my eggs through work because I am 28. I have a boyfriend slash life partner but we haven't decided whether we want to have children yet, although we have definitely thought about it. Egg freezing just took the stress away and work paid for it. For people thinking about it, it does put a lot of strain on your body and it's costly, so know that going in. Some part of me thought that if I went through that, I must know that I want kids because otherwise,

why would I do it? yes, it is important to think about kids in your 20s as a hypothetical, but I want to stress that you do not, I want to stress that you do have more time than you think. My mom had me at 38 back then she was so old. She told me she was never worried about it though because she loved, she loved her life and she would have had a full and wonderful life whether I came around or not and I love that philosophy. It is a big decision, but you can wait until you were 38 or older and still be successful. Okay, sorry, I feel like I really fell over my words there. I really love this point, and I think this is a really good one to end on, though, because it brings some nuance. As this person said, you know, she still made a huge decision about her fertility, and she didn't know, but you do have time. Kids aren't everything.

You can change your mind. You can start late. And I think it's a good way to finish this up is to really articulate and express that science is coming a long way. Like this episode was not to sit down and stress us all out about, you know, go and get a scan right now, go and find out if you can have kids like start on your family planning journey as young as possible because that does sound very like the handmade's tale. I understand it. but I think that the whole philosophy that underlies this whole episode is that more information equals more choice. And if we think about retirement in our 20s, if we think about our dream jobs in our 20s, if we think about finding the love of our life in our 20s, all these big things,

right? We should, you know, all these big things that are the ingredients for our life plan and are the ingredients for our 5 and 10 year plan. We should also be thinking about children. And if you don't want them, that is honestly so, like, I don't feel like I need to say that. But yes, just stress it one more time. If you don't want them, great. Like, you come to that decision, you come to that conclusion. And yes, you can change your mind. But it's also, like, if you do want kids, there are factors that are important to consider during this decade,

whether that is your dating choices, whether that is your health, that we have more power by thinking about earlier. So I do hope that this episode has made you think or has just been entertaining, has helped you learn something. Thank you so much to the people who wrote in with their perspectives and their life experience. It was just something really that I've been thinking about a lot and I was interested to talk about. I would love to hear what you guys think. If you have a story, if you have an opinion, something else that you want to say, please DM me on Instagram at That Psychology podcast. I would love to hear from you. And if there's somebody else who you think would be interested in this episode who wants to hear it, please feel free to send it to them.

Make sure you leave a five-star review on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, wherever you are listening right now and that you're following along for future episodes. And until next time, stay safe. Be kind and be gentle to yourself. And we'll talk soon. 2%. That's the number of people who take the stairs when there is also an escalator available. I'm Michael Easter.

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