The Psychology of your 20s - 259. Confronting our family dynamics in adulthood ft. Gwendolyn Watson

Episode Date: December 23, 2024

Childhood is a funny thing. You can only really understand it in hindsight and as we become adults we begin to reconsider the ways in which our families have shaped us, for better or for worse. In today's episode, we break down the complicated ways we rethink our family dynamics in adulthood, including:  What happens when our family lets us down Our adult reaction to childhood trauma  Do we confront our family or move past it?  Dealing with emotionally immature parents  How to find closure on your own  Navigating difficult family dynamics around the holidays  We welcomed on an amazing guest, Gwendloyn Watson, a Marriage and Family Therapist with an expertise in navigating complicated family dynamics and her family story to guide us through these topics.  You can find Gwen here: https://www.linkedin.com/in/gwendolyn-watson-lmft-3520821a/    PREORDER MY BOOK: https://www.penguinrandomhouse.com/books/755841/person-in-progress-by-jemma-sbeg/  Follow Jemma on Instagram: @jemmasbeg Follow the podcast on Instagram: @thatpsychologypodcast For business: [e-mail]    The Psychology of your 20s is not a substitute for professional mental health help. If you are struggling, distressed or require personalised advice, please reach out to your doctor or a licensed psychologist. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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Hello everybody. Welcome back to the show. Welcome back to the podcast. New listeners, old listeners, wherever you are in the world. It is so great to have you here back for another episode as we of course break down the psychology of our 20s. today we are here to talk about our families, to talk about parents and family dynamics and how they change in our 20s, or more specifically, I think, how they really begin to reveal themselves to us as we further enter this decade. For many of us, you know, family is supposed to be the source of unconditional love and loyalty and support, and it's meant to be a safe haven. But what happens when that doesn't really match up with our experience. And why is it that so many of us in our 20s really start questioning the role our families play in our lives and begin to unpack how they've

shaped us for better or for worse and how they will continue to shape us? So I really want to explore some of those common struggles that come with having a family and having strange, complicated parental dynamics and the nuances of it all. You know, I can. think it's really interesting that it's not black and white. It's not that you are that completely hate your family. You want to be estranged from them or you have to completely love them. A lot of us exist in the gray space in the middle. So why is that the case? How do we navigate, having complicated feelings towards family? And of course, I wanted to bring on an amazing guest who was an expert on this to help us rethink healthy boundaries, family expectations, all of the above. These are very

big, heavy topics, but they are so necessary. So I want to welcome on Gwendolyn Watson. Gwendolyn, how are you doing? Hi. Thank you so much for having me. I'm doing great. This was the highlight of my day. I was looking forward to this. Oh my gosh. Thank you. That always makes me feel very, very happy. Just a little compliment to begin the episode. None of the listeners have probably met you before. Maybe they have. So can you tell us a little bit about your and how exactly you became, will a marriage and family therapist, above all else? Yeah, definitely. Yeah, I love reflecting on my journey to become a therapist because it's so aligned with

some of the themes that we're going to explore as well. So, you know, grew up in a family that had a lot of dynamics. I was one of four kids. My mom, abstract painter, poet, you know, kind of very expansive woman from England. And I grew up in America, and my dad was a tax lawyer from the South. So just already, like, How did that happen? That's a whole other podcast of how they met. Oh, my goodness. Yeah, just growing up in that environment of a lot of different perspectives on values and life. And as a middle child, as I'm sure you've explored in past episodes, a lot of my development was around really noticing how,

to have certain reactions from people, noticing what brought about a sense of joy, a sense of acceptance, and maybe what things would bring about a sense of anxiety from my parents. Part of that experience also, I'm an identical twin. Oh, my goodness. I know. Oh, my God, you're a middle child and an identical twin, so you didn't even get to just be the only middle child. Exactly.

To do it with someone else who was identical. Oh, my goodness, gracious. Yes. So my journey into my 20s, I felt like it was one of those first times of asking myself, you know, like, how do I feel about something? What do I want? I studied art history and then jumped from that and went into Google, worked in business development for almost a decade. And yet I found myself walking through the corridors, like walking through the cubicles, kind of keeping that feeling of disconnection at bay. I remember one time I walked into an

empty conference room and found myself tearful and not knowing why. And it really was that, like I was starting to get in touch with this feeling of, this isn't what I want my life to be. That process kind of got in touch with the fact that my whole life I've been serving some type of helping profession role. And I've always been. really curious about relationships. I was a young kid curious about my parents' relationship. I was a young kid like trying to negotiate friendship struggles on the playground. And I was like a very highly sensitive, attuned, emotionally attuned kid and teen and young adult. So started to think about, I think being a therapist is actually more aligned with what I want.

And I remember calling my parents to share with them that I was embarking on this new journey. And in that moment, you know, I was really ready for them to like be on the same page with me. And of course, as it happens, they were in shock. They had a lot of anxiety. You know, they had a lot of their own stories of raising kids with, you know, some like professional uncertainty. my dad my dad's firm who's working for like collapsed and he had a mortgage with three kids at the time there's just like these own stories of their own experiences around sudden career change that were coming up and was like why would you like what like you're but you have so much stability like and you're so good at it like not

there's no signs that you should change your career. And in that conversation, you know, from their own anxiety, they, you know, they said they had strong reactions. And it was quite hurtful for me at the time. You know, now we've moved through it and I can see the two sides of the story. But in that moment, you know, I just was shocked that something that felt so beautiful to me was landing for them as so scary, such a bad idea, definitely not what I should be doing. And, you know, like giving up, that I was really losing and giving up as opposed to opening and gaining like a new chapter. So it was one of those moments where I had to be at peace with, even though they're not on board, I'm on board. Like, I'm on board with myself. And I can give them space.

to come around. Like, if this is true, if I'm really becoming a therapist not to please them or to please anyone else, if this is really my vocation, then I believe in myself to put in the work to make it happen. So yeah, that was a long, long-winded answer, but now I'm in private practice now. I've had a couple different experiences as a therapist with different populations. And I get to work with adults and couples and families and support them in the navigation of relationships, which are, as you said in your intro, so nuanced, so complex. And really, I think, the best catalyst for growth for all of us as human beings. That's a really beautiful story. And I think that it ties really perfectly in with what we're talking about today, which is doing what's best for you versus what your family

thinks is best for you having not so much conflict, but different opinions. in families, disappointing your parents. But speaking of family, why do you think so many of us start really questioning the reality or what family should look like in our 20s? What is it about our 20s that really makes us start reconsidering how we were raised, how we grew up, and maybe some of the resentment around that as well? Yeah. Yeah. I mean, again, this is assuming that you lived with your family of origin the whole time and then kind of left home in your 20s, which I know isn't the case for everyone. But assuming that progression, it can be, you know, when you're living in an environment, the ability to question what's happening, there isn't always space for that. That takes a pretty

like secure and strong and safe environment to be able to outwardly name and question certain patterns or certain behaviors or certain values that are happening within a family system. So in your 20s, once you're left home, there's literally the oxygen to pause and say, hold on a second, like, what are the values that really aligned for me? Right. And sometimes, there's this beautiful quote that I love from, for act therapy, which is acceptance and commitment therapy, which says, in our pain, we find our values. And in our, values we find our pain. And I think a lot of being in your 20s is that invitation where you have the space, you often have the time to pause and say, what did I experience that did have pain,

that maybe at the time I minimized or, you know, kind of brushed away or repressed or just didn't even notice, just thought it was just kind of normal. What did I experience that had some pain connected to it and what does that tell me about what I really care about. Some of our values are adopted and kind of carried forth down the generation from our families of origin and down the generations. And some of them are in reaction to or kind of like a renewed value that is in contrast to values that we were raised with. So, you know, I'm going on a little bit of a tangent myself, but I think that in your 20s, there's actually that space to pause and to reflect. And something that I also love thinking about for folks in their 20s, we talk a lot about,

you know, you've probably heard a lot on social media and just if you're in your own therapy, your inner child. And I love introducing the concept alongside your inner child of your inner team, who's like a freaking badass. wants to question things and wants to, you know, like kind of like isn't afraid to maybe disrupt the status quo or to push back about things. And your 20s is kind of the first time when you get to integrate your inner team because you're not, you know, you're not living your teen years. You're able to kind of feel into that, that team side that hold on a second side, right? They're like, what do I care about? When do I want to speak up side?

but that it's not kind of ruling the ship the same way that, you know, that you're living that in your teens, but you're also dealing with all the things you're dealing with in your teens. So your 20s, there's a way to kind of feel into that and kind of integrate like what part of me is in touch with my values. And maybe what part of me is a little bit of my inner teen, like just wanting to have fun or wanting to make mistakes or wanting to do something off the cuff and spontaneous and against what people expect of me. And so yeah, I think the 20s, it's a beautiful, beautiful time that there's so much space for all of that. But it is, it's a really unique time to, you know, I say it's kind of like you're giving birth to yourself, that you're allowing yourself

to come into your adulthood. Yeah. And I feel like, wow, that's all coming up and you're having what is a really huge transformation into adulthood. Yes, you have the oxygen to look at your family differently. Like you have the breathing room. And you also start to talk to other people about their experiences as well. And I think become a bit more independently educated about what may have benefited you more, what family dynamics maybe should have looked like. And with that, that can bring up.

the resentment as well of why didn't I have the childhood like that? Was that not meant to, was I actually not meant to be treated that way? And a big question which we, which you talked about before is the push towards individualization. And I think a big question around becoming an individual is how would I do that differently? You know, my parents set an example, but as an individual, how would I have done that differently and how will I do it differently in my own life with my friends, with my kids, with my family. And sometimes that brings up some heavy stuff. When you begin to really realize the ways you've perhaps maybe been let down, hurt by your parents or family, maybe disappointed in the past, what kind of reactions do you

think people tend to have? Because it's a very hard realization. I think whether you have it as a teenager or as in your 20s, be like, oh, my family is it perfect and I'm just going to have to live with that. What are some of the reactions we initially tend to have towards that realization? Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I think you named it with that experience of, it's kind of an experience of grief and of loss, like a loss of what you wished you had had. And with grief, with any type of processing loss, like the reactions really run the gamut, right? Like that it is so individual for some people, it might be that feeling of, you know, a feeling of anger or of irritation or of sadness.

You know, I do a lot with parts work. So kind of thinking about the different parts of yourself. And I think when you're talking about integrating a story of what happened in my past and how do I feel about it, my approach is always to make space for all the different parts of you and how all the different parts of you might feel, right? There might be kind of an intellectual, wise part that says, you know, well, like, this is the way that I'm going to, you know, think about it. Like, clearly X, Y, Z happened and it kind of uses. intellectualization to find a narrative. And there might be that, you know, that inner, you know, maybe boundaryed or angry part that really just wants to be in touch with anger and be in touch with like, that wasn't fair. Sometimes that anger part is connected to a sense of justice. Like,

it shouldn't have been that way. And there's often a young part that is in touch with fear or yeah just you know fear or shut down or just quite quiet you know sitting in the quietness of of an experience and so you know i get i get this question from clients sometimes like am i supposed to feel this or how should i feel and i always want to invite you know actually there are so many parts of you that are experiencing this processing of what family means or what happened that I wish hadn't happened. So how can we actually make space for all of those parts of you? And notice if one part and one side of you is really holding the microphone, no pun intended as we hold our microphones, if one side of you is really speaking quite loud,

let's give it that space, let's let it air out how it felt, but let's also notice the other sides of you that maybe have something to say as well. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, go ahead. Oh, no, I was just going to say, like, I think anger and grief are like the two big ones. And like anger and grief are the two big ones that are very hard to process. And I've often found that if you just ignore them and you say to yourself, I have no right to be angry or I need to, put away this anger and just pretend like everything is normal and that's very relevant, especially around the holidays when we're recording this. That does not make it better and that does not make it more bearable because you're still minimizing. You're still minimizing for other people,

right? Any like emotional reaction you're having to being disappointed by your family or disappointing your family is a reaction that I think needs to have, has a full life cycle, right? There's a birth of it normally like when you are a child or when you're a teenager. Then there is the life of it when you're really, really feeling that emotion. And eventually the emotion might die or it might become a bit weaker, a bit more fragile. Sometimes that does take time. But also you can't put it into a box and expect that it's not going to want to break out.

So I really like what you're saying. Like you need to give space for every single reaction that you're feeling. towards your nuanced family dynamics. When it's the case that you still have to be, you know, be present with your family. You obviously don't, you might not want to cut them off. You know, especially around the holidays, there's a big conversation of people being like,

I have to go, I'm going home for Christmas and I just know that this stuff is going to come up. I'm predicting that like I'm probably going to fall back into old patterns with my family. how do you navigate that? How do you make sure that you're still looking forward and looking to heal whilst perhaps back in the same environment that caused you the pain in the first place? Yeah, yeah.

I mean, I guess I want to name that even the word family means so many different things for so many different people, right? And that although there is a quite common experience of when we're back with our families of origin, we suddenly find ourselves. like feeling 15 again or feeling quite young. Like, you know, and I mean, even me, like, peaking at 40, like, the same thing happens to me. Like, Thanksgiving, I was like, God, I just, I really just feel like a 15-year-old again. So, like, that felt experience is, is psychologically normal. I don't know what else to phrase it? Like, it's a shared experience

that a lot of people have. And, you know, going home to family, there is it's such a spectrum. So I want to, I want to, I guess I want to offer empathy to folks who are listening to this conversation that for some people, you might be going back to family where, you know, there are, we don't get to choose who our parents are. You know, it is possible that you have parents that, for their own reasons and their own things that they're struggling with, have consistent and characterological ways of dismissing or hurting you physically or psychologically. And there's other people who going back to family, you know, they're going back to parents who are trying their best and still disappointing, right? That might be showing love through their, like, only know how to show

loves through anxiety or only know how to show love through criticizing. And it's intentional to say, that they love you, but in actuality, like, they're telling you, why are you wearing that to Christmas dinner? And it's like, really? Like, what's happening with your job? Like, why do you make more money? Have you not yet? Yeah, yeah. I can't believe you broke up with that person. They were the only person who cared about you, you know? Like, there's so, I'm wanting to normalize the spectrum, right? And, and say that, um, although there's a common experience of going home from the holidays, like, you know, your truth. You know, like, am I dealing? with a family that's rough around the edges and imperfect in the way that humans are imperfect?

Or did I grow up in an environment where when I return home, I really have to be cautious around what it means to navigate safety and navigate this moment? Of course, some people, by that, if they really are returning to homes where they've seen a long enough pattern of, you know, whether it's humiliation or being put down or really just feeling that like intentionality of power and control, they might not be going home for the holidays. They might be finding chosen friends and chosen family to be engaging in the holidays with. But I guess what I offer to my clients is pausing to think about what do you want and what What do you need?

For me, whenever there's times when I'm going home for the holidays and there's certain things that are quite sensitive. Like it feels kind of like soft belly type of, yeah, like a soft belly up sensitivity. I don't know if that metaphor makes sense. But I might say that what I need is to not discuss the certain things that I know, like, are quite, that I'm quite protective around, you know. So I have that awareness in advance. and if people are bringing it up or asking me about that, you know, I'll kind of respond with

kindness, but just say, like, thanks for asking. I'm not ready to talk about that or, you know, today, and I don't have the space to talk about that today. So I kind of have in advance, I've kind of prepared, like, what do I need for my own heart and soul to have that boundary? And what do I also need for my own body? You know, for me personally, I can't drink alcohol around the holidays because I am a quite emotionally open person. And if I have even half of a drink around families who then say a comment that they mean well, but lands as criticism, I flood much more easily. So like I'm also thinking about my own body. Like what do I need for my own body that I can't negotiate? And then outside of that is the wants. Like what do I want for the holidays?

Of course I want to laugh and connect with my siblings and with my parents. And I definitely want there to be moments of shared vulnerability. Those might happen, they might not. So helping differentiate between like our wish list, kind of like our wants, our hopes, and then our needs. Like where are the places that I really want to prioritize the boundaries and my energy around supporting myself with those boundaries? And what are the other things that are more about me experiencing the, you know,

those moments in the holidays where we have that feeling, of disappointment because we had high expectations or high hopes for what it might look like, and maybe it looks a little bit differently. And those are kind of the wants. Like, did I want to have this really heart-to-heart meaningful conversation with so-and-so on Christmas morning? Maybe, and maybe it didn't happen this year, but maybe it'll be another year. So that's, that helps me differentiate between what to really put my energy behind. I love the idea of having like a wish list for your family Christmas or your family holiday. my other thing is that I go in with really low expectations.

Really low expectations. And I also make sure that I have, firstly, I know what I don't want to talk about with my family, but I'm back home. And I actually, I know it sounds like, it's so simple, but I really do say, like, I'm not talking about this. Please and thank you. Like, I'm not going to talk about that with you. And if we do like I'm going to leave, sorry, bye. Like I'm not, I'm going to leave. So you can either have my company or you can have your answer to this question.

Which one would you like more? And the other thing I do is I have like a little bit of an escape. I have a huge family. And yeah, huge family. It's big, complicated situation. So I also know that I need like my own time and space to get away from it. Otherwise I will literally explode. We're going to take a little bit of a break that I want to talk about how we can communicate

the ways in which our parents or our family have disappointed us in the past after this short break. 2%. That is the number of people who take the stairs when there is also an escalator available. I'm Michael Easter. And on my podcast, 2%. I break down the science of mental toughness, fitness, and building resilience in our strange modern world.

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This isn't over until justice is served in Arizona. Listen to Love Trapped podcast on the Iheart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Alrighty, we are back with Gwen. So this is a complicated question that I get asked a lot. How do you ring up the times in which? which your family has disappointed you in the past or hurt you, is it worth even bringing it up in your 20s? Or should you just not say anything and just go on and build your own life

and know that you can't heal what's been broken in them? Well, basically, what is the best alternative to navigating a past situation that you feel is still holding weight for you where you feel you want to say something about it? Yeah. it's, you know, what you're talking about is like how to have a, what I'm hearing in the question is how to have a repair conversation. Like I think that there's, when people are saying they want to share, there's a hope, there's a hope that they'll feel seen and that there will be a feeling of accountability or of empathy for what you experienced. So whenever there's a repair conversation, the first question is, you know, kind of like are both sides ready? And I think what's really challenging is sometimes you're ready for that conversation.

And whether it's a parent or a sibling, they might not be ready for many reasons, right? It might not be, they might be going through something really stressful in their life. just not be in the right mindset. And so sometimes the first question is, how can I tolerate my readiness while the other person isn't yet ready? And so if that's the case, and I rarely think, it rarely works when that type of conversation is forced, you know, when it's like, I need to have it, so we're having this conversation. When there's that feeling of it's happening now, people come in defensive and that feeling of being seen, it's just there's a lower chance. Let's put it that way.

There's a lower chance of not happening. So if the other person, oh, did I cut you off? No, no, we didn't. Okay. If the other person isn't ready, then the question is, how can I have this conversation, you know, in therapy or with people who are going to listen? for some clients I've done, you know, writing letters, letters to themselves, writing letters to their past selves, different, like, creative expressions, that it's not the same thing, but it helps them tolerate that difference,

that, like, that waiting period of this other person isn't ready yet. And also tolerate the fact that there's no guarantee, you know, the other person might not ever be ready. There are some parents who say, you know, the past is a past, is a past, I don't want to go back there, right? And so that's, unfortunately, that that's part of relationships is that we, we only have control over us naming what we're wanting and what we're needing, and we can't always control the other person wanting to engage. But if you have a sense, you know, that they're naming things like, I want to deepen my relationship with you, or

you're feeling really distant, like I'm wanting to kind of form our adult, our adult relationship of a parent-child relationship. Then starting by just naming, you know, kind of your intention for the conversation. A lot of parents are, avoid conversations like that because there's an anxiety

and there's a pain around the fact that you can't change the past. So if there's an naming of, hey, mom or hey, dad, I want to share my experience because I want to have an authentic connection with you. I want you to know what I went through, and I understand that you can't change the past. I really kind of am just hoping to feel seen and feel heard

by the person that I had this experience with. That can kind of create a foundation for a deeper empathetic conversation, like maybe more success. There also are a lot of people who have these conversations in therapy. I'm more and more there. I'm seeing a couple therapists who are also supporting parent-child's diads.

So like holding the space of a two-person conversation with adult children because a lot of adult children have stuff they want to talk about. And a lot of parents are feeling a little confused and sometimes bewildered that they don't understand why this energy is coming from their adult child and they want support figuring it out. So there are.

lots of different spaces for these types of conversations. But I would say, yeah, like, naming your intention. And then knowing that, like, your parent might be quite surprised. They might be kind of a little caught off guard. And it might be multiple iterations of this type of conversation. I will share from my personal experience that I had conversations like this with my dad when I was in my 20s. And that he was, he was the breadwinner, he was working a lot. There was four kids in a family. So some of the things that I wished he had understood was what it was like to have a parent who was contributing a ton but not physically or very emotionally present and how there was that feeling of loss around that.

And every time I tried in my 20s to express this, it came off critical. He was kind of like WTF. Like, I, like, you know, provided, I gave you so much. Yeah, I tried my best. Like, oh. And it never, it just created more disconnection. And then during the pandemic, it's being forced to be on Zoom. We started having, like, Zoom chats where it was finally the right time and place for us to have that conversation. And it was really, really beautiful.

You know, he shared authentically and tearfully about what it was like to be on client. calls while he was hearing me and my sister be sung happy birthday and blow out of birthday candles and he was being pulled in and had to miss that and I shared authentically about how it really felt like my focus was on my mom and I didn't have a focus on my dad and how that lack of connection like I didn't feel connected to him and that was like really weird to just be connecting in my adult life with him and um I and I don't know. We both leaned into it with a lot of honesty and authenticity, and it was clumsy, but now I can really say, like, we're building something new that I never thought would happen. It's quite,

it just has its own beauty and it's a new chapter. So it took us a lot of time to get to that. And I guess that's what I want to normalize is that sometimes it's both people have to live more life until conversations can happen that go the way you want. I really, I think that's a really beautiful reminder. You have to live more life before you can have the conversations you want to have. And I really appreciate that you said at the beginning, you can't have this conversation, this repair conversation unless both people are ready. And I guess also unless you know what you want to get out of it, right?

because sometimes if you go to a parent and you're like, all I want is an apology, you might not get that. And so if that's, I think going into a repair conversation, you have to want something that you'd be okay with them not being able to give you in a way. So you have to be okay with them, maybe not apologizing,

maybe not being able to say, yeah, I totally messed up there. Because I think maybe 90% of the time, a parent isn't going to say, yeah, I messed up. because that's not how like human ego works.

And for, you know, being a parent is sometimes the biggest thing that anyone's done in their life. I think it's the biggest thing that most people do in their life, raising a child, raising a family. And so, you know, they don't want to acknowledge that they were maybe a failure at that thing, even though you're sitting across with them saying, like, this hurt me, this was painful. All I want from you is to acknowledge it. Giving that up means giving up a sense of accomplishment for them and a sense of pride as well. I also think that when you talk about both people need to be ready, I think about emotionally immature parents for whom that's never going to happen.

There is never going to be an acknowledgement from them. They're probably never going to be ready. I've seen it so many times with people who, you know, parents have passed. away and they've never had the conversations. So I like that you've offered this alternative if there is a way to give yourself closure. There is a way to take everything that you've experienced and not need the acknowledgement of the person who's perhaps caused it. You just need to acknowledge it yourself and find a way to make it part of your story, but not the defining part. So how do you think that we can find closure ourselves if we maybe aren't speaking to our families if we have

emotionally immature parents if a parent has passed away and the effects are still there how can we bring about closure when it comes to complicated family dynamics for ourselves yeah yeah I mean I yeah it's such a good question I'll just to um you name the with the dynamic of emotionally immature parents, I like to think about like there's some parents who, as you're saying, like just aren't interested in in that level of growth. And there's also some parents who want it, but are in their own process, like it just catching up. Like they're playing like way catch up, you know, so kind of like differentiating between parents who aren't interested in authentic, vulnerable relationships where there's a safety to be

honesty. And the parents who really want that but are just kind of like in kindergarten. Like they're like, they're like playing catch up and they're, you know, it's kind of, if you can hold that, like, wow, they're, they're doing, they're doing the emotional growth that I started when I was in my 20s, but they're starting in their 60s. They're like 70. So I do believe in the human spirit, when the human spirit wants growth, that it can happen at any age. But as you said, there are some people who just aren't interested in that shift. And that's their choice, right? So to your question, you know, I find that I really, really believe in the power of healing in relationship. and it doesn't always happen in, it doesn't always happen,

the healing that you want to happen with maybe your parent might end up happening in other relationships. So that kind of broadening the view of, you know, when I'm thinking about what was the wound, what was the dynamic that happened between you and your parent? and what was the underlying wound? Maybe it was your parent, you know, telling you how you should think or how you should feel. And so listening for that theme as it's coming up in other relationships,

maybe with a manager at work or maybe with, you know, a friend or an intimate partner. And seeing what it's like to find your voice, to name your truth and to navigate, you know, that dynamic with someone. where maybe they have a little bit more space to hear you and to see you. So, you know, although, you know, I wouldn't recommend like seeking out, you know, although this happens, like seeking out a, like, a parallel relationship and, you know, kind of enacting, like, enacting what didn't happen with your parents and enacting it in all future romantic relationships, I think when there's a consciousness around it, like, what are your rooms, and when you see those things show up,

with the right people who want to be holding that space of really understanding where you're coming from, you can have really, really healing moments where they offer correctional experience. Sometimes that happens in therapy. Sometimes that happens in other relationships. But I would say knowing your themes, know your wounds, like know what what needs didn't get met and and listen and notice for one that's showing up.

I do really believe that there's a way that you talked about like the life cycle of an emotion. There's a there's a life cycle of stories that like things come back up. And when they come up, we have an opportunity to give ourselves the space and the power or the compassion or the backbone or the softness that we wish we had experienced in the past. there's this beautiful phrase that I love, which is wherever you go, there you are. And so I think it's the same with relationships. You know, whatever happened in past relationships that didn't get to be fully resolved or fully metabolized, it's going to show up again. And this time you might have a little more wisdom, a little more tolerance, and the person might have a little bit more space

for that experience to unfold in a very different way. So, yeah, I'd say have faith in what it looks like to continue to practice authentic, vulnerable relationships for yourself and with others. Even if you can't do that with your family. Like you said, you can do that with friends, you can do that with mentors, you can do that with partners, boyfriends, girlfriends. One of the big things for me that I think is so healing, if you can't have those, those conversations and that closure really with family is being able to say,

well, that's not going to be passed on. That's not going to be how their relationships work. No one is hopefully going to come to them at 60 and say, you know, you caused me this hurt, you cause me this pain. There is a lot of closure, I think, in healing yourself and in breaking the generational chain. and saying all that work that they were maybe unable to do, I have now done it. And so it's kind of like cutting off the head of a disease, right? If perhaps, you know, whatever it was that has been passed down through your lineage,

because often the way that your parents or your family has interacted with you as the way that their family's interacted with them, even if you don't have children, right, knowing that your relationships, you know, your personal relationships won't have this dynamic. The relationships you have with nieces and nephews won't have this dynamic. The relationship that you have with your partner won't reflect that that maybe your parents had in their marriage. That is an incredibly healing thing. So I have one more question to ask you. And it doesn't even have to do with family.

It's just something we ask every single guest, which is if you had one piece of advice, a bullet point piece of advice for someone in their 20s, what would it be? Like take it one step at a time. You know, one day at a time, even with what you were naming about the not wanting to repeat generational trauma, like, we each make one change, like small changes in the patterns of the families that we are born into. And future generations, whether those are relationships or our own biological or raised children, future generations are going to make little shifts that we don't have to do it. all, but we can be proud of what we are doing. So, yeah.

Little changes. I like that. That's a beautiful piece of advice to end things with. Gwen, I want to thank you so much for coming on to talk about a pretty deep, meaningful, vulnerable conversation and a vulnerable topic. Where can the listeners find you? How can they learn more about your work? Yeah.

Well, my website is www.gwendolyn Watson.com. and I'm on LinkedIn posting about mental health, parenting, emotions, all the stuff that we think doesn't get discussed in corporate environments. I'm doing it on LinkedIn. So feel free to connect with me there and, yeah, continue the conversation. Yeah, everything will be linked in the episode description as always. And I just want to thank you guys for listening to this episode. If this is something that you're really dealing with this holiday period. Oh my goodness, you are not alone. You are not alone. And there are so many amazing resources out there as well that I'll also leave in the episode description. Make sure that you are following along and that you give the show

a five-star review wherever you are listening. You can also continue the conversation. If you have thoughts, feelings about this episode, you can DM me on Instagram at That Psychology Podcast. And we're always taking further episode suggestions. But until next time, stay safe. Be kind, be gentle to yourself, and we will talk very, very soon. 2%. That's the number of people who take the stairs when there is also an escalator available. I'm Michael Easter. I'm on my podcast, 2%. I break down the science of mental toughness, fitness, and building resilience in our strange modern world. Put yourself through some hardships and you will come out on the other side a happier, more fulfilled,

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