The Psychology of your 20s - 30. Heartbreak - hurting, healing and thriving ❤️‍🩹

Episode Date: May 8, 2022

We discuss the biology behind those awful breakup feelings, how to truly let someone go, the stages of grief and whether it’s possible to be friends with you ex.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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Listen to the girlfriends. Trust me, babe, on the Iheart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Hello and welcome back to the psychology of your 20s, the podcast where we talk through some of the big changes and transitions of our 20s and what they mean for our psychology. Hi, everyone, new listeners, old new listeners, friends, strangers, strangers, strangers, strangers, strangers, strangers, strangers, strangers, strangers, strangers, strangers, strangers, strangers, uh, welcome to the podcast. and to this week's topic of discussion, which is the breakup. Yes, ladies and gentlemen, the breakup. Such a big part of our lives, such a big part of our 20s, when I think the majority of us experience our first type of real and serious heartbreak

and, you know, the breakups and the relationships we have in our 20s are just going to impact us way down the line. So I thought we should finally discuss it. This is going to be a pretty big episode, I think a hard episode, a sad episode, but also one of, you know, healing and thriving, getting through your heartbreak and hopefully coming out of it as a better person. And if you're here and listening, I'm sending you a lot of love and support because I'm guessing that you're listening for a reason, most likely because you're going through

this right now. And we've all been there in the midst of, you know, a breakup where the grief just feels overwhelming. So hopefully what we talk about today will offer you some guidance or at least a sense of solace that you're not in and alone, that you're not the first one to go through this. And, you know, time passes. That's the beautiful thing about time. It always keeps me moving forward and you will as well. That sounded so sappy, but I hope you know what I mean. So I have been working, writing, re-planning, reworking and thinking about this episode for over a year.

In fact, when I first began this podcast, it was one of the main things, the main topics that I really wanted to get around to discussing. But every time I've revisited the subject, I just felt that I couldn't. I was at a place where I could objectively view heartbreak and a breakup and not feel like I was still in one myself. Basically, I wasn't sure if I could, you know, record this from a wise place or not cry. And, you know, this is a really vulnerable topic. And I know that, you know, friends and family are probably listening to this, which is great. Hello.

But yeah, safe space to share, I feel like, and to link up with the people who are in the same. same place as you. And I think now I can, now I can record this episode, I believe, more on that later. But yeah, I'm in a wiser place about it. So I was like, let's give it a crack. Actually, a bit of podcast history. I actually began this podcast after a pretty serious breakup I went through last year with, yeah, with the guy I was seeing at the time who, yeah, with this person. I went through a break up with them and I was at a really low place in terms of my self-esteem, keeping myself occupied with all of my free time I had because I wasn't with this person anymore and, you know, recreating myself, how I saw myself. And this podcast was just such a savior for me to heal

and grow as a person, as a person that was beyond them, that was no longer attached to them. So I am very grateful to this podcast, the people who have listened and how much it's grown out of that vision I had for initially. And it's helped me so massively. And it's just like unbelievable what it's become. So thank you to those who have supported me. I really appreciate it. So I truly believe that there is a certain reverence to being heartbroken,

to building yourself back up from such a low point where you have lost someone you cared for so deeply. There's something spiritual about the process of, feeling emotions so intensely and being able to adjust to them and move forward. It's a significant grieving process that I can imagine many of you are currently in. I think I also went through a period. No, I don't think. I know. I went through a period of that recently as well. And though I probably wouldn't call it a breakup, it certainly felt that way. And it still really hurts. There are times when I miss this person really intensely and I wish I could tell them about the things I see

and message them about things that remind me of them. And we'll go through how you can move through those periods of longing and grief, how you can move forward with your life and, you know, with respect and admiration for that person and everything they contributed to your life, but leaving the love you had for them behind and solidly in the past. We'll talk more about that later. Love is not always easy or straightforward. And I think the majority of the times we do choose to put ourselves out there and have a deep connection with someone,

we risk being profoundly hurt. But I guess the message of this episode that I really want to convey is that it's always worth it. The growth you see in yourself, the ability to recreate yourself, to remind yourself of your strength and why you are fucking amazing is just such an incredible reward. You know, also just the fact that you lean on your friends and your family and your hobbies so much more intensely and you're just going to see so much growth in. and reward in that area of your life as well after a breakup.

Some of the moments of, you know, the greatest change and growth and significance in my life has come after periods of heartache. And I look back at the person I was before and I can't even recognize her anymore because I am profoundly different. You are profoundly different after you have loved and lost. No matter how significant that relationship was, it could have been for three months, could have been for six, could have been for years. But I guess I am speaking to people in their 20s.

where, you know, I don't think many of us have met the loves of our lives yet. Maybe you have congratulations, but it ultimately means that you're going to have to probably go through this at least once or twice before you get there. But being able to, you know, look at who you were before, look at who you are now and think about who you are and could be. Who you could be in the future is just such a beautiful part of that process. And I had this recently. I went back to Canberra where I went to uni and spent a lot of time. and I just realized how much I had grown since I was last there and when I was living there. And I felt so sad.

I felt so sad for the person I was when I was there and I missed those memories and those people that I loved in that place. But I was also so grateful and proud for what I chose to do after periods of hurt. And I was proud of myself for, you know, I guess standing up for myself, not being with those people anymore, realizing that I did deserve better. And I did a bit of a survey of my life and I just felt so much gratitude for those people and for myself because I guess you put in the work

and it pays off. And one day you get to kind of look around and be like, wow, I did it. I like move past those periods of like shittiness. And I also think this is a period of my life. I think it's like the first time in like five years that I haven't either been, you know, heartbroken, dating or falling in love.

And what a liberating feeling that is And if you're in your own breakup right now, which I am assuming you are, I hope that's something to look forward to. Okay, I'm really sorry for the ramble. I guess it's a vulnerable subject, though. So if you're not here for the vulnerability, you're probably not here for the right reasons. But let me give you an overview of what I am planning to discuss today. So we're going to talk about the biology and the underlying kind of physical reactions that

many breakups contain and that make breakups so hard. There is, like most things, a science to it all that we will discuss. And we'll talk about grief and how to move through the stages of grief associated with the breakup and then eventually how you move on. Also, can you be friends with your ex? Well, I'm going to speak from experience and say, yes, we can, but it has a few conditions. And I think it's a question that a lot of us ask ourselves when we're in a breakup. Like, I just want to be friends with them. I just want to, you know, as long as we stay friends. So that's also a point of contention, but also discussion that I want to think about with you, discuss with you. So all you heartbroken people out there, welcome, strap yourself in and yeah, prepare for a brilliant

episode. I don't know, an informative episode and one that hopefully you can relate to. So the first thing I want to talk about is the biology, the science, the psychology behind breakups. What does it mean from, I guess, a brain sense, from a mind sense? What's actually happening up there? Why does this hurt? Why does this hurt so much? So a big part of it is, of course, to do with neurotransmitters. I'm sure you probably guess that. Neurotransmitters are basically, hopefully I'm not explaining this if you already know, but basically they're these little chemicals in our brain that allow for communication. You know, the fuel that the brain kind of relies on to communicate messages and to get us to act and do things.

And our neurotransmitters play a pretty big role in feelings like love. And then the subsequent feelings of hurt when it doesn't work out. The primary ones are serotonin and dopamine. We hear a lot about them. good reason. So there was this study done around a breakup and around love that shows that addiction and love are actually very, very similar. So in this study, there's a psychologist. She had two groups of people and one group were, you know, intensely in love, falling in love and the other group had been broken up with. And she showed them pictures of, you know, their beloved, the people

that they loved. And when she showed it to the people who were actively in love, the same areas lit up in their brain as you would expect when, you know, you would see when someone would do like heroin or when you got a massive dopamine hit from gambling or from intense exercise. Anything that is addictive activates the same parts of our brains that love does, which is really interesting and really accounts for, I think, that really intense period where you're first meeting someone and getting to know them where you're just obsessed and you love them and you're just thinking about what they could do no wrong,

thinking about all the future plans, all the amazing things about them. And at its essence, what the psychologist is saying is that it's addiction, is that dopamine, the dopamine in our brain is creating pathways really quickly that make you want to have more of a fix and make you more connected to this person or a neurological level. So then she showed these photos of people, you know, people that were connected to the participants to the people who had just been broken up with. Here's the thing, those same areas lit up.

But something else happened as well. Firstly, they lit up just as much, but it took longer to die down. So what that means is that you're not getting the same hit or fix. you know, your brain gets activated to receive a reward and you don't get it. And what ends up happening is withdrawal. So your brain sends out all these messages of like, oh my gosh, we're going to get this reward. You know, we've seen this person that's like a hit or it's a rush of like some drug. And in the people who were in love, you know, they were rewarded by that. They knew that those feelings of love would be reciprocated. They could go back to that person and get that

hit. But for the people who were in a breakup, their brains were no longer getting that hit and it caused genuine withdrawal, genuine withdrawal symptoms within their brain, a crash within their brain, a dopamine crash. And this other group of researchers, they studied young adults who experienced a recent unwanted breakup. So they were broken up with. And when participants viewed photos of their exes, their ventraltgmental area, so basically it's the VTA. And this nucleus in the center of their brain where the dopamine center, is they all lit up with activity and these regions are tied to our brain's reward system. Specifically dopamine, which we've talked about that causes feelings of euphoria and addiction.

And in the face of a breakup, your brain stimulates the addiction. The dopamine signals your brain to crave an object or a person that previously caused the euphoria for you to crave them in the first place. So our reward or motivation system means that we're now driven to find the source of our joy and to find that person, but we don't have access to them anymore. They're not ours. So you basically have that crash. You have that high and you have that crash.

Kind of also explains, you know, those like awkward drunk text that you like send your ex when you're really drunk and you're like looking at photos of them or like thinking of them. And your brain's like, oh, I know how we can get a hit. Let's just like message them out of the blue. Don't do it. Never works. I feel like, yeah, let's just steer clear of that.

Another part of our kind of internal systems and our neurological systems that contributes to the pain of a breakup is this thing called long-term potentiation. I've talked about this on the podcast before. You all know the term you use it or you lose it. But there is kind of a reverse of that as well. The more you use a pathway, the stronger it becomes. So when you've been with someone, when you've been with them for a while, when you've built up memories and connections and patterns of behavior with them, your brain creates, you know, simultaneously creates patterns of synapses and patterns of neurons that reflect those activities, that reflect those feelings.

And then you break up with them. And, you know, whilst they may be gone, those neurological patterns and pathways in your brain associated with that person, they're still there. They didn't go anywhere. So your brain continues to fire signals along those pathways that creates a sense of craving and it takes a while for those pathways to die out. I guess that's the great part of you know you use it or you lose it. You can lose it. If you don't act on those reactions or those impulses to talk to that person, to see that person, to connect with that person, slowly those pathways that are associated with your feelings for them, they'll die. They will no longer be used and the brain will be like, okay, well, let's replace that with something better.

In a breakup, you also feel a lot of physical symptoms as well. So MRI scans and some other neuroscience studies have shown that the withdrawal of romantic love activates the same parts of the brain, which are activated when we go through withdrawal. So it also sends the same signals to your body to pay attention to certain things, and it creates physical pain as well. So these MRI scans showed that there are several areas of the brain which contribute to that. Basically, what it means is your brain is addicted to something and when it can't get it, it sends signals to your body to do so, to go out and find it.

You know, you might feel physically ill. You might feel like nauseous. You might feel incredibly tired or anxious or jittery. fatigue, muscle aches, headaches, all of these are symptoms of what you would expect from, you know, drug withdrawal, but love is the best drug, I guess. And so you're expecting and it's expected that you'll also experience that when you go through a breakup. The other component, which is more of a social element, I think, but equally as important, is that when you date someone and when you love someone, your identity becomes intertwined with them. There are parts of you that you associate

with them that they've had kind of a hand in. You know, love and romance, I'm sure we've all seen it, it also creates codependence where you're relying on that person for support and for love and for validation. And when you can no longer get that, your sense of self really crumbles and diminishes because you no longer have that support structure to hold you up. You just feel weakened without it. brain kind of does weird things with that as well. I don't know if you've had this, but, you know, these people that you've broken up with that you're not with anymore, they show up in your dreams. They, like, I remember I, like, a few months ago, I was just having like vivid, vivid dreams of this person showing up and it felt so real because my brain was still trying to use those old

pathways that, you know, we were trying to shut down. And also because they had been a big part of my life. So there were all of the, I wasn't having them in my life. So my brain was kind of, creating situations for me in which I got to have that kind of fix. It also might be why, you know, you do also feel your self-esteem and your self-confidence really kind of go down the toilet because like we were talking about with that social element of your identity, becoming intertwined with them, you no longer have that validation and reinforcement from someone you truly loved. And your confidence just kind of drops. I had that recently.

I just felt so low and so, like, crappy about myself because I could no longer look to this person to kind of lift me up, not that they really did anyways, but in the ways that they would show you affection or they would show you that you cared, or show you that they cared about you, you don't have that anymore. So what do you have to replace it with?

You know, in the initial stage of the breakup, nothing really seems to fill that hole the same way that they did, which is really tough and it all kind of links together. That's why you just feel so crap and you feel so shitty because there are physical and social and mental and psychological reactions going on in your brain. That is to do with withdrawal and that is to do with no longer having access to that fix or that sense of companionship with that person. So now that we understand where those shitty feelings are coming from, I want to talk about grief. I think losing a relationship, losing someone you love, not permanently as in they're dead, but

losing someone you're no longer with is this type of grief. Having to say goodbye to that person and what you had and what you could have had in the future is grief. And I do truly believe that there are stages of grieving to a breakup, just like there are stages of grieving with a death. For those who don't know, the five stages are denial, anger, bargaining, depression and acceptance. Let's apply these to heartbreak, to a breakup. Denial, that's probably the first two weeks, I'd say, for most of us, where it's just like, this isn't happening. Everything is as normal. Everything is, we're just going about our business. And it's where you don't really feel anything. You know, you're full of, like, opportunities for what you can do, you know, like, now it

can date other people. Now I can, you know, hang out with my friends. Let's go drinking. Let's like, you know, go gym heaps. Like, whatever you decide to do. Essentially, it's just like, the emotions haven't hit you yet. You're still in denial about what is actually happening. Next comes anger. Anger is just such a severe stage, I think, of grief, but one that you just have to work through. Anger at yourself, anger at the person, anger at the situation. I remember finding myself so angry at myself for allowing myself to be in, you know, a relationship that wasn't suiting me for so long and now I'm having to go through this period of like intense heartbreak. I should have just like not, you know, started it to begin with, which is ridiculous.

But the anger, I think, a big element of it is it's not rational and it's not necessarily something you can control either. Bargaining. You know, typically how people would see. bargaining in relation to a breakup is wanting to get back together with them, trying to, you know, kind of have a discussion with yourself about, oh, you know, eventually we'll get back together. Like, it's in the future, you know, we're meant to be together. We'll get back together or bargaining around like, oh, I'm just going to find someone better. I'm just going to, you know,

if I do these things, I'll feel great in a couple of weeks. If I go and sleep with someone else, I'll feel fine. It's basically yourself kind of trying to convince, you're trying to convince yourself that there's an easy way out, which I'm sure you know there isn't. And when it doesn't work, we have depression, perhaps the longest stage of the breakup and the most acute, where you just feel shit. You just feel awful. You feel sad, you feel lonely, you miss that person so much.

You know, you're probably looking back through all the photos and fun times you had of them. Sometimes it's actually, at least I think, really good to embody that period and to really let yourself feel that emotion like you would, anything else. You know, if you were physically hurt, I would hope you wouldn't just ignore it. But in another sense, I think it's actually can be quite nice and a little bit indulgent in a good way to just let yourself be sad. Let yourself really be sad about what could have been, about what you miss about that person. Because if you don't, and if you try and suppress it, if you try and use,

things like, you know, drink or have sex or throw yourself into something else or, you know, stay on, you know, always be on your screen or whatever it is, excessively socialize, you're never actually going to move through this stage. And it's just going to take longer. Everyone has to get through it. If you're going through a breakup, it's just part of the deal. You're going to be really sad for a while. And it's best to make that last a little bit shorter, I think, by just like pushing yourself really into it,

hitting that kind of low stage and then, you know, building yourself back up. And that's when you get to the final stage of grief, which is acceptance. Acceptance is the key to moving on. It is the golden antidote to everything that's come before. It's realizing that you're not going to be with that person. That person is no longer yours, in a sense. You are probably never going to see them again, or at least not in a setting where you probably want to see them again.

you're never going to tell them you love them again you never going to you know kiss them again go on holidays with them again have that same level of intimacy and um it's about really accepting that you do want to be with someone that loves you and someone that you can grow with someone that treats you with respect um that was a point i really had to get to where i was i think in previous breakups where I was like, actually no, like I accept that I do deserve things better. I accept that that was a very beautiful relationship and that we did have a great time, but it's over now. And I think that's the thing that I really stags a lot of people, really trips them up,

is you don't truly let them go. You don't recognize that it's truly over. You always have that thought at the back of your mind of like, yeah, maybe one day we'll get back together. I'll get to see them here. to maybe one day we can we can do this again um and you're not going to be able to move forward unless you get over that essentially unless you really come to terms with that and you can kind of tell if you have it i remember i was like yeah i'm totally over it i've accepted this we're not together anymore and then you know what happens you know what happens they get a new partner they get a new

relationship and that's the real, I guess, moment of truth in determining whether you really have accepted that it's over or whether you've just been telling yourself that it is. Because when that person gets a new partner, that's when that conclusion that realizes, that realization of like, oh, fuck, like I'm not with this person anymore. They're not with me. This is really done. And I think that's when the breakup can truly kind of set in. If you haven't been through that depression you've just kind of skipped over it and gone straight to like, yeah, it's done, we're over. Like, let's move on. As soon as they get, you know, meet someone new, I think that's really when you, you kind of realize, you kind of realize that you probably hadn't really, really reached that stage yet.

And I think one way to get to that acceptance stage is kind of having a bit of a funeral for your love. And I know this is really, really strange, but it's something that I have done that really, that really, helps me and really has helped me in the past make a box of all the things they gave you all your little mementos um you know cards they wrote you gifts they gave you tickets to things that you did together photos whatever it may be put it in a box and put it away and i think write them almost like a bit of a eulogy a bit of a letter saying you know yeah really acknowledging how much you loved them saying all the things that you really loved about them, that you really saw in them, the best things about them,

and then also taking a moment to realize why it probably wasn't meant to be. Sometimes I think when we are in that depression stage of that stage of grief, we look back on our relationships with rose-tinted lenses, and we really tend to forget the awful times. It's a terrible type of cognitive dissonance. You just look back and you think, oh, you know, how amazing was it when we were on this, like, beautiful trip together and like, how amazing was it when we did this and, you know, how amazing was it when we had this experience

not remembering all the times in between when perhaps you didn't feel loved and you didn't feel respected or not, you know, remembering the fact that if they wanted to, they would be with you and then not for a reason. Write that letter, it's going to be really hard. You will probably have a few tears and it's actually a really good thing to feel sad when you're doing it because you're sitting back, you're acknowledging both the gratitude you have for them, but also your fears and also in some ways the reasons why it did have to have to end. If the funeral idea is a little bit weird for you, I totally get it. I'm just saying it works. I have like a few boxes of like X's stuff that I like keep in my attic and you know maybe I'll pull it out one day but it's safe there now

but if that's not really your thing keep a diary or some way of tracking your progress so this might sound a little bit dramatic but the first breakup I ever went through I was so distraught I don't even know that was the worst I don't even know how to explain it I was just so sad I was crying all the time I was just like miserable and my psychologist at the time said you should film this you should film yourself in this stage every time you're crying every time you get overwhelmed and you think about them pull out your camera and start recording and I did it and every time I was crying about them I would record exactly how I was feeling what I was thinking about that moment and I still have those videos I actually looked at them a few days ago

in thinking about this episode, fuck it was sad, but you know what else? It was kind of beautiful. It's like 35 minutes of just like clips of me like in tears in different locations around you know, Canberra and Melbourne. And I just looked, watched it back and I was like, that's just crazy that I was feeling that emotion so intensely. And I can look at this now and realize how far I've come. And it's a great way to kind of see that you are moving forward. And yeah, progress isn't linear, but at the end of the day, when you do watch them back in the future, you're just going to kind of laugh at yourself, you know, feel a little bit of pity, but also just have that moment of like, hurrah, I did it, I made it through that. I'm actually not

that person anymore. Some more strategies, the classic one, and one that I do really stand by, block them, block them, put them in spam, at least for a little while, don't have any contact. I know it's really, really hard. I know you don't want to do it. Trust me, I've been there. If you don't feel like you can do that right now, I think also, you know, if you have things that tie you together, like maybe you lived with them and you've got bank accounts you need to deal with, or you've got leases that you need to deal with, or furniture or shared property or cars or anything like that, obviously it doesn't make sense to block them straight away because A, that's rude, B, that's irresponsible.

But put them in spam. Put them in spam and then give yourself like 30 minutes in the day where you can think about them and you can reply to them and you can do whatever you want. And then outside of that 30 minutes, put them away. There's nothing that needs to be done within 24 hours that they can't wait for. And it really stopped you from getting those notifications

or being reminded of them when you don't want to think about them, having them pop up to you on Instagram when you're spending time with your friends. You know how shitty that is? It's just like the worst feeling because it makes you feel like you've made no progress. It pulls you away from the moment and it keeps you in the loop. So I would say if you can't block them, at least put them in spam. That is my biggest tip. And when you do get the option to block them, do it.

It is just amazing and I think really helps contribute to that acceptance of like we're not together anymore. I'm not going to see this person anymore. I shouldn't have any contact. My friend Phoebe, God bless her, if she's listening. absolute legend. She said this to me, in my most recent experience of heartache, she goes, if you don't have contact with them, if they're not in your life, if you're not seeing them, if you're not getting notifications from them, if they're not present in your daily kind of routine, you can kind of forget that they even exist. If they're not in your like periphery,

if they're not in your like field of vision, either on your phone or, you know, by seeing them, you can move forward a lot faster. And I think that kind of links to this next idea of like keep yourself busy. Although I've said like it's important to really feel your emotions, keeping yourself busy is just like so useful when you are in that like really terrible stage. Reconnect with your friends. Reconnect with the things that you might have given up that we naturally give up when we become intertwined and connected with someone else.

and I think that is also relevant to creating new parts of you, pursuing new things that, you know, they don't have some connection to new parts of you that are just yours, hobbies and new friends, they're a great place to start, you know, try a new sport, go hiking, go see new places. And I think that's a massive thing. I remember I went, like, when I was in Canberra and I went through this like breakup with one of my exes, everywhere I go would just remind me of them and it was so painful it was so terrible but I started visiting new places that had no connection with them that were just mine and by doing that I got to create and recreate my identity outside of that relationship and outside of my you know of us together

and it was a really great way to kind of move forward and to reconnect with myself and see myself as not just theirs not just their girlfriend not just their person but as Gemma, as my own person who has their own things that they don't have any touch or hold or fingers in that they don't have any connection to. And I think that's a really important step and hopefully a good strategy for you if you're, you are in that situation where you're just in a loop of being reminded of them of feeling like everything you do is in some way theirs as well. Okay, so what next? What next? You've done the work. You've invested in yourself, you've invested in your hobbies.

You've invested in your friends. You've cut off contact. You have gone to therapy, a big one. My friend Aaron would always say that. Go to therapy. You have moved through. You've gone through that grieving process. Where do you go from there?

What do you do? Not just in relation to them, but in relationship to your broader relationships as well. The first thing I think we all think about is like, is it possible to be friends with your ex. I actually think it is. This is not based on any kind of research, just like personal experience. I think that you had a really deep connection with them

for a reason. Perhaps you would have been better as friends, you know, this whole time. But if you have successfully moved through those stages, if you no longer see them as a romantic interest, if you no longer, and this is critical, no longer have any expectations for a future romantic or intimate relationship with them, I think it is possible. I think it's possible to reintroduce them to your life

slowly and making sure it's not derailing any progress you've made or that, you know, you're putting too much attention on them or you really are secretly thinking like, oh yeah, this is it, we're going to get back together this time. But if you're no longer in that thought process, I do think it's possible. I had this with one of my exes. who I love very deeply and who is now, I would say, a very good friend of mine. And after a while, we had a large period of separation. We both went on and dated different people. And then slowly we just started to become friends,

the way that you would become friends with a stranger, just like thinking about things you had in common, you know, having a laugh with them every now and again, helping them out with like some random thing and keeping it at that level, or not letting it get any deeper. I remember the moment I realized that, like, I truly was, like, just, like, actually just good pals with this person

was when I was talking to them about another relationship I was in, and he was doing the same. And there was no feeling of jealousy. There was no feeling of, like, sadness. It was just as if I was talking to any of my other friends about something I was going through. Yeah, that's actually, I would say, you know, a rare thing to achieve, and it's definitely not for everyone.

and I would say if you can't keep up healthy boundaries with that person, if that person has really hurt you or done something that's like genuinely abhorrent or like terrible, in no way should you feel like you have to be friends with them again or should you feel obligated. Cut them off, get them out of your fucking life. But if you have that inclination and if it's natural and if it works, I do think that there is something to be said about being friends with your ex and keeping them in your life at a healthy distance.

I think the other thing is, when do you know that you're ready to date again? I don't think you ever know. I think there will just come a point where you'll just realize that that's actually an option now and that you are in the right place to be able to meet someone new, to give it another shot and to share things with yourself. A big hurdle, I think there's two things I really want to say about that. if you're just dating because you're trying to get over that person, I don't think that's that great. Firstly, you're just going to end up hurting yourself more.

It's also not fair to those other people either. And I don't actually think it's a healthy way to move through grief. You're just using dating and other people as a distraction. And you're always, I think, looking to those people that you're seeing to be like that person you were just with. with it's just like such an unhealthy expectation to place on every single possible party in that situation. I also think the other thing that comes into it is your self-confidence levels. And feeling as if you are yourself again, if you do have something to share, if your life would at this stage be better with someone else. My friend Kate is incredible, just an incredible,

incredible person. And I just remember her saying, like, she just made, like, she, after she went through like a hard period, a hard, like breakup heart, heartbreak thing, she just focused really intently on making her life as amazing as possible, as suited to what she wanted as possible. So when someone did come along, the only thing left for them to do was just to already elevate what she already knew she had, which was happiness, which was friends, which was opportunities, and which was gratitude. I think that's a really successful and amazing way to go about it. And making sure that you're at a point where you feel like you could be vulnerable with someone again. That was a big thing and still a big thing for me, I think, where, although like I'm definitely not actively dating or anything like that,

a big reason behind me not doing that is because I just, A, don't feel the need to, but B, just think there's so much work left to be done. myself around my confidence levels after like my recent experience and just feeling like I am myself again and that if someone met me tomorrow if like my soulmate met me tomorrow they would actually like the person I am and the person I am is actually a reflection of who I want to be and a reflection of my values and my principles and not of you know my self-esteem issues you know it's a lot if you work through your baggage early it's a less weight and less burden on your future relationships, I think. You're doing yourself a favor for the future. You're doing them a favor. There's not really much else to be said about it other than that. And before we wrap up

this episode, if you are going through a breakup, I send you a lot of love. I know how it feels. I know it can feel really terrible, but do focus on the really good parts of the relationship for a while. Let yourself feel pain. Let yourself feel the love that you do. You feel the love that have for them at least for a period and, you know, be grateful for that relationship and then really get to work on accepting that it's not part of your life anymore. It's not part of your future. It's not part of your reality. And it's time to move on. It's time to be with someone who's more compatible. Be with someone who can give you what you want and who can give you what you really deserve because you deserve, I think, so much more. If that relationship didn't work, it didn't

work for a reason. Remind yourself of that. It didn't work for a reason. It might not be their fault. It might not be, it's definitely not your fault. It might not be anyone's fault. Sometimes people just don't work because there's friction, because there's incompatibilities. And that's all right. And you don't have to get back together with them. You shouldn't feel like you need to. There's someone a lot better out there. And even if you're by yourself for five, ten years, that's just such a great opportunity to make yourself into the best version of you, not for your future partner, not for your future, you know, boyfriend or girlfriend or partner or whatever, but just for you and just because, you know, on this stuff, you really do only have yourself. And that's just the

most crucial element, I think. If nothing else, if you take nothing else, you really do only have yourself. So the investment you put into your identity, your character, how you feel about yourself, how you feel in relation to others, whether you're proud of yourself, whether you love yourself is so much more important than whether you love someone else and whether they love you. So yes, I hope you enjoyed this episode. I thought it was going to be a lot more emotional than it was. I guess it's a testament to having moved through this successfully. Congratulations, Gemma. But I hope it also gave you some insight. It gave you something to think about and some strategies, some advice. Time is just your best friend in this situation. It's a brilliant

and worst thing about time. It always moves forward and you will as well. And it really does heal all wounds, at least partially, along with some good hard work and some therapy. You'll get to a point where you can look back on yourself in this stage, like I looked back at those videos of me crying when I was like 19 and just feel just a little bit silly about it but also just so much it's just such a strange feeling it's just such a strange feeling to be looking back at yourself in the past and just acknowledging how far you've come and just thinking back on those feelings and how you never thought it was going to end and then eventually it does and if you did like this episode please feel free to subscribe or leave us a review on Apple Podcasts or Spotify podcasts

it really does help this show grow. If this is an episode you think someone else in your life would really appreciate it, would really appreciate or really needs, send it to them. I would be really grateful if you would do that. And follow us on Instagram as well at 20's Psychology Podcast. I know it's a weird handle. I'm trying to change it. I don't really know how to.

But sometimes we do questions there for topic ideas or things you want to hear about. So please feel free to send your suggestions over there. I'm sending you a lot of peace, love and happiness. If you are moving through your breakup and some heartbreak at the moment, it's going to get better. And you're on the right path. If you're listening to podcasts, I think you're getting into that acceptance stage. So best of luck, and thank you for listening.

Hey, what's good, y'all? You're listening to Learn the Hard Way with your favorite therapist and host, Kear Games. This space is about black men's experiences, having honest conversations that it's really not safe to have anywhere, but you're having them with a licensed professional who knows what he's doing. How many men carry a suit or armor. It signals to the world that you're not to be played with.

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