The Psychology of your 20s - 349. The psychology of flow states

Episode Date: November 2, 2025

You know that feeling when time disappears, your focus sharpens, and everything just clicks? That’s what we often call ‘flow state’ - a powerful experience of total immersion where effort feels effortless. In today’s bonus episode, we uncover what flow really is, how it works, and why finding it might just change how you think about focus and fulfilment. We explore: •       What the flow state actually is•       The history and psychology behind the concept•       What it feels like, and how to know you’ve reached it•       Why some people find it easier to access than others•       What’s happening in your brain during flow•       Practical ways to find it in your own life Listen now! ORDER MY BOOK Follow Jemma on Instagram: @jemmasbeg Follow the podcast on Instagram: @thatpsychologypodcast For business: [e-mail]    The Psychology of your 20s is not a substitute for professional mental health help. If you are struggling, distressed or require personalised advice, please reach out to your doctor or a licensed psychologist.  See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I-Heart podcast. Guaranteed Human. On the Look Back at it podcast. From 1979, that was a big moment for me. 84 was big to me. I'm Sam J. And I'm Alex English. Each episode, we pick a year, unpack what went down,

and try to make sense of how we survived it. With our friends, fellow comedians, and favorite authors. Like Mark Lamont Hill on the 80s. 84 was a wild year. It was a wild year. I don't think there's a more important year for black people. Listen to look back at it on the Outer. My Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Hey, what's good, y'all? You're listening to Learn the Hardway with your favorite therapist and host, Kear Games. This space is about black men's experiences, having honest conversations that it's really not safe to have anywhere, but you're having them with a licensed professional who knows what he's doing. How many men carry a suit or armor. It signals to the world that you not to be played with. And just because you have the capability that does not mean that you need to, Listen to learn the hard way on the AHA radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast.

In 2023, Bachelor star Clayton Eckerd was accused of fathering twins. But the pregnancy appeared to be a hoax. You doctored this particular test twice in so much. I doctored the test ones. It took an army of internet detectives to uncover a disturbing pattern. Two more men who'd been through the same thing. Greg Alesspian. Michael Ranjini.

My mind was blown. I'm Stephanie Young. This is Love Trapped. Laura, Scottsdale Police. As the season continues, Laura Owens finally faces consequences. Listen to Love Trapped podcast on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. 2%. That's the number of people who take the stairs when there is also an escalator available. I'm Michael Easter. And on my podcast, 2%. I break down the science of mental toughness, fitness, and building resilience in our strange model.

and worry. Put yourself through some hardships, and you will come out on the other side, a happier, more fulfilled, healthier person. Listen to 2%. That's TWA percent on the IHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. When a group of women discover they've all dated the same prolific con artist, they take matters into their own hands. I vowed. I will be his last target. He is not going to get away with this. He's going to get what he deserves. We always say that trust your girlfriends. Listen to the girlfriends. Trust me, babe, on the Iheart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Hello everybody and welcome back to the psychology of your 20s, the podcast where we talk through some of the big life changes and transitions of our 20s and what they mean for our psychology. Hello everybody, welcome back to this show. Welcome back to the podcast, new listeners. Out listeners, wherever you are in the world, it is so great to have you here back for another episode as we, of course, break down the psychology of our 20s. Today, we've got another one of our bonus episodes. These like kind of shorter coffee break style chats are when we take one psychological concept, one word that gets thrown around a lot and really just unpack what it actually means.

Normally, like we don't, like they don't really have enough content for like a whole 40 minute episode, but I still really want to deep dive into them and I still feel like there's a lot in the topic and in the conversation that we can learn from. So today is one of those episodes. And what we're talking about is something that I think we've probably all experienced, maybe not always recognized. It's also one of my favorite things to talk about in general. We're going to explore this concept of flow states.

That sweet spot where you are so immersed in what you're doing that you just lose all sense of time. You forget to check your phone. You forget you're even you for a little while. You are just so totally in it. Maybe you have gotten this when you're doing something creative. I know for me when I'm painting, when I'm doing Sudoko, I always get into a flow state, but maybe when you're dancing, sketching, or maybe it's when you're just with your best friend. And suddenly hours fly by in a matter of minutes.

It's so rare. It's this magical zone of effortless engagement that I think we could all benefit from experiencing a little bit more. So the term flow was first introduced by the Hungarian American psychologist Mihai Chiksenk Mihayi in the 1970s. In his words, the best moments in our lives are not the passive, receptive, relaxing times. The best moments usually occur when a person's body or mind is stretched to its limits in a voluntary effort to accomplish something difficult and worthwhile that is also enjoyable. He first identified this feeling by looking at some of the most talented and exceptional people in the world, athletes, ballet dances, entrepreneurs, authors, scientists, and identifying this thing that kind of linked them all together. Something they all had in common was that when they were doing the thing that they loved and that they were the best at, although they described it differently, they all had this feeling of,

flow, that they said told them almost, made them feel like, even if they never found success, they were on the right path. They wanted to chase this feeling. Chikset Mihai actually outlined the eight main characteristics of flow that he identified in all these different cases. See if you kind of align with any of these. See if these have been your experience. The first was intense focus and concentration. Whatever you are doing, you are completely absorbed. The second is merging of action and awareness. You stop thinking about what you're doing.

You just do it. Third, loss of self-consciousness. You forget to be self-critical. Even if you have the loudest inner critic, when you're in a state of flow, they are nowhere to be seen. Fourth, a sense of control. You feel capable, balanced between challenge and skill. Fifth is a distorted sense of time.

The hours literally feel like minutes. You look up, it's like you started at 2. It's 8pm. Sixth, there is clear goals and feedback. You know what you're doing and you can see how you're doing. Seventh is a sense of effortlessness. You're working hard, but it doesn't feel hard. You don't feel like you're becoming exhausted.

and eight is something called an autotelic experience, meaning that you are doing this thing for its own sake, not for a reward, not for an audience. If nobody ever acknowledged what you were doing, you would still do it every single day if you could. Even though Cheek sent Mihayi gave it a modern label, the experience of flow, it's actually not modern at all. Throughout history, people have described something striking, similar. For example, ancient Greek philosophers talked about eudamonia, a state of human

flourishing that came from deep engagement with meaningful activity. Artists during the Renaissance described divine inspiration, right? This trance-like creative state where their art seemed to come from something above them or around them rather than from them. Writers, Virginia Woolf, Ralph Waldo Emerson, Elizabeth Gilbert, they write about like, this rapture of creativity, this sense of like losing themselves in thought and creation, it's an out-of-body experience. And even in Eastern philosophies, Buddhism, Taoism, there's this idea of Wu Wei, which is effortless action, the act of doing without forcing, of being so attuned to what you're doing that it feels like it is flowing through you like a river. So we can kind of

see, you know, the language for how we describe this has evolved, but the human experience has been the same for literal centuries. Like, Mihai's greatest contribution was giving this feeling a psychological framework, identifying its triggers, measuring it, understanding how it affects our brains and our emotions. It was by no means, though, a novel or new idea. This is something that different cultures, different people, different groups have named and have conceptualized for centuries, flow is just the new label. And I think it's quite a beautiful thing.

Like I honestly find that very comforting to know that like humanity has had this shared experienced across thousands and thousands of years across time and context and that flow is accessible to everyone and people have experienced like it's wonder before, you know, I was even alive. I just find it quite beautiful. Now, I did just say flow is accessible to absolutely. everyone, but it does tend to appear more often and more commonly in people who engage in structured challenges or creative practices. Musicians, writers, dances, athletes, gamers, programmers,

like these are the groups that often report entering a flow state more frequently. And it makes sense when you think about the conditions that help create it. Their activities usually involve clear goals, immediate feedback, and a gradual increase in skill over time. When a musician is practicing a piece, for example, they're constantly adjusting their performance based on what they hear. The challenge evolves with their ability. The same goes for athletes, the same goes for gamers, the same goes for riders. The feedback and the balance between difficulty and mastery keeps the brain engaged at that sweet spot. It's not only about the type of activity though, it's also about how you approach it that is

really, really critical. People who are intrinsically motivated, meaning they do things because they genuinely enjoy them, not because of external rewards. They tend to experience flow more often. Multiple studies and reviews show that intrinsic motivation fuels flow because it keeps your attention grounded in the process itself. We talked about this like dissipation of ego that your inner critic kind of silences during these moments. That's incredibly important for this process. You wouldn't be able to access flow if you were constantly thinking about how this thing

that you did was going to be graded or whether it was going to be approved by people, whether it was going to receive positive feedback, whether people will, the people are going to like you more because you did it. It's just not possible. This has to be something that you do for you and you alone. And maybe the benefits of it is that people celebrate it and think that you're amazing and think that you're talented. You would do it though even if you didn't hear that praise.

Psychologists actually find that there is a certain kind of person who is more able to activate this, I guess, non-self-critical, non-extern. validated part of themselves. And these are people who are high in what we call, again, autotelic traits. They're high in curiosity. They're high in persistence. They're not very self-centered and they have a deep openness to experience. That is the kind of individual who might be more likely to fall into a state of flow.

And whilst, of course, you know, we see that a lot in performance-based fields, surgeons, teachers, software engineers, like, it's very essential to know that anybody can experience this when they are doing something they love, even if they don't have an autotelic personality. The real truth about flow is that it is a human privilege, it is a human gift, it's less about who you are, and more about finding the right way to engage. So we've talked about who's more likely to experience flow, what it feels like, what is actually happening in our minds when we're in it, and how can we access its properties and that state more.

We're going to take a short break. When we return, we're going to explore all of those things. Stay with us. 2%. That is the number of people who take the stairs when there is also an escalator available. I'm Michael Easter. And on my podcast, 2%, I break down the science of mental toughness, fitness, and building resilience in our strange modern world. I'll be speaking with writers, researchers, and other health and fitness experts, and more, to look past the impractical and way too complex pseudoscience that dominates the wellness industry.

We really believe that seed oils were inherently inflammatory. We got it wrong. Many of the problems that we are freaked out about in the world are the result of stress. Put yourself through some hardships and you will come out on the other side a happier, more fulfilled, healthier person. Listen to 2%. That's TWO percent on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Do you remember when Diana Ross double-tapped Little Kim's boobs at the VMAs? Or when Kanye said that George Bush didn't like black people. I know what you're thinking. What the hell does George Bush got to do with Little Kim?

you can find out on the Look Back at it podcast. I'm Sam J. And I'm Alex English. Each episode, we pick it here, unpack what went down, and try to make sense of how we survived it. Including a recent episode with Mark Lamont Hill, waxing all about crack in the 80s. To be clear, 84 is big to me, not just because of crack. I'm down to talk about crack on day, but yeah, yeah, yeah. But just so you all know.

I mean, at this point, Mark, this is the second episode where we've discussed crack. So I'm starting to see that there's a through line. We also have AIDS on the table right now. Thank you for finishing that sentence. I don't think there's a more important year for black people. Really? Yeah. For me, it's one of the most important years for black people in American history.

Listen to look back at it on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Welcome to my new podcast, Learn the Hard Way with me, your host, and your favorite therapist, Kear Games. And in recognition of mental health awareness month, I'm bringing over a decade of my own experience in the mental health field and conversations with so many incredible guests. I'm talking. Trip Fontaine, Ryan Clark. Sometimes when we're in the pursuit of the thing, we get so wrapped up in the chase that we don't realize that we are in possession of the thing. And we're still chasing it.

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Join me, Keer Gaines, is we have real conversations about healing, growth, fatherhood, pressure, and purpose on my new podcast, Learn the Hardway. Open your free Our Heart Radio app. Search Learn the Hardway and listen now. In 2023, former Bachelor star Clayton Eckerd found himself at the center of a paternity scandal. The family court hearings that followed revealed glaring inconsistencies. in her story. This began a years-long court battle to prove the truth. You doctored this particular test twice in someone's, correct? I doctored the test once. It took

an army of internet detectives to crack the case. I wanted people to be able to see what their tax dollars were being used for. Sunlight's the greatest disinfected. They would uncover a disturbing pattern. Two more men who'd been through the same thing. Greg Alesspian and Michael Maranini.

My mind was blown. I'm Stephanie Young. This is Love Trap. Laura, Scottsdale Police. As the season continues, Laura Owens finally faces consequences. Ladies and gentlemen, breaking news at Americopa County as Laura Owens has been indicted on fraud charges. This isn't over until justice is served in Arizona. Listen to Love Trapped podcast on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

There's two golden rules that any man should live by. Rule one, never mess with a country girl. You play stupid games, you get stupid prizes. And rule two, never mess with her friends either. We always say that, trust your girlfriends. I'm Anna Sinfield, and in this new season of the girlfriends, Oh my God, this is the same man. A group of women discover they've all dated the same prolific con artist.

I felt like I got hit by a truck. I thought, how could this happen to me? The cops didn't seem to care. So they take matters into their own hands. I said, oh, hell no. I vowed I will be his last target. He's going to get what he deserves. Listen to the girlfriends.

Trust me, babe. On the Iheart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. So what exactly is happening in your brain during flow that makes it so amazing? Well, the neuroscientist, Arnie Detrich, described flow. as a state of transient hypofrontality. What does that mean? It basically means that certain parts of your prefrontal cortex, especially those responsible for self-monitoring and time awareness,

actually quiet down or are down-regulated, meaning that you are experiencing an altered state of consciousness, rather than your brain being in a state of frantically juggling multiple things at once and the accompanying critical thoughts that follow, all these processes kind of fade away for a moment. Your attention becomes laser focused on the task in front of you. At the same time, dopamine, the neurotransmitter associated with reward and motivation, rises. We know that's going to make you enjoy the task more. It's also going to help you with creativity, sustained attention, and pattern recognition, meaning that,

you get more in this groove of things. A 2014 paper published in the journal Neuroimage investigated a sample of 27 participants and split them into three different experimental groups, either flow where participants engaged in tasks that automatically adjusted to their skill level, boredom where tasks were too easy, and overload where the task was way too challenging. They found that participants who experienced flow also showed decreased neural activity in the amygdala. We talk about the amygdala on the podcast so often it could basically be a co-host at this point, but it's responsible for threat detection, emotional processing, even social behavior. The activity in that area during flow?

Minimal. This neural shift is also why people in flow often report losing track of time. You know, your internal clock is slowing down and there's nothing scary that's going to bring you back to the present. Something really interesting that Chig Sent Mihayi actually proposed is that flow might be one of the main ingredients of what he called the good life, a life that is not defined by constant pleasure, constant comfort, but by regular moments of deep engagement and meaning. And in a way, that makes sense because flow, just gives you a break from yourself, from self-comparison, from worry, from trying to perform. It's not about escaping life, but about being like completely inside of it such that all of

these emotional distractions aren't there. When you think about that, like it's honestly so rare that we are in a state like this and it's not a form of escapism. Obviously, like when you're watching TikTok, when you're like on your phone, watching a movie, eating a snack at the same time, you might think that you're in a flow state. You probably can't tell how much time is passing. It probably feels very effortless. But you're not because it's often a form of, you know, again, escapism rather than deeper emotional connection. If you know you're thinking, I don't think I've ever felt that way when I'm doing something creative or I used to be able to do this. I can't get there anymore. I've rotted my

brain, you're definitely not alone. Flow sounds effortless. It's actually very hard to achieve, especially these days when the attention economy is basically meaning that there is money behind you being distracted. If you are distracted by something on your phone, buy something on the screen, by an advertisement, by anything like somebody is making money off of your distraction. We're checking notifications, we're switching tabs, we're multitasking. That can do. that a lot of us find ourselves in is actually the opposite of what flow needs to survive. Flow requires uninterrupted focus, that deep, unbroken engagement we have with one thing. And I listened to this podcast from the American Psychological Association featuring Dr. Gloria

Mark, and she spoke about how, on average, our attention spans now last for just 47 seconds. 47-4-7 seconds. And that blew my mind when I heard it. That is clearly not enough time for your brain to fully immerse itself in anything. No wonder flow is becoming harder to come by because our concentration is like a muscle and it's probably atrophied a little bit. Here's the good news. focus, concentration, connectedness, that is a skill. And like any skill, it can be rebuilt. You can train your brain back into its flow state. One of the first steps is to protect your attention. Carve out time for focus the same way you would for a workout or for a social event. That might mean turning off notifications, setting your phone across the room, going on

to walk without music, without your phone, just to observe, just to have 60 minutes, 30 minutes to be present. You need that uninterrupted time to reform and rebuild. Next, find the right balance of challenge, but make sure you are challenging yourself. You cannot achieve a flow state if you are constantly doing things that are incredibly passive and boring. Scrolling on your phone, it feels great. There's like a low level of dopamine constantly available to you there. You're never going to achieve a true flow state unless you put yourself in conditions and situations that take you out of that passive kind of observational moment that all of us find

ourselves in. Flow thrives in that sweet spot between boredom and anxiety and just making something a little bit more complex, a little bit more difficult than maybe you need to, pushing yourself to do things that are a little bit out of the ordinary. Even if initially it feels hard to bring yourself to do them because you know that what's coming is going to be this like enchanting state of mind. What I mean by that is like, go and invest in buying some painting supplies so that the only option for you at the end of the night is not just scrolling. You have a creative thing that you can engage in. Go and buy a Sudoko book. Go and start a substack. Go and create a website for yourself or like a journal website for yourself. Just like do anything. Junk journal. Like get yourself into a

sport, you cannot be in flow and also completely passive and bored with your everyday life. I know it's kind of probably uncomfortable to hear, but if something is too easy, there's no point in your brain reaching that level of engagement. Choose tasks that also matter to you, obviously. Flow rarely happens when you're doing something purely for external validation. It's most likely to appear when it's something that's meaningful to you. I feel like these days we constantly feel like we need to produce or make or put stuff out there for other people's enjoyment and for other people's reassurance or attention.

It's probably not so likely that flow is going to appear in those moments. We need that internal harmony, that internal validation, that intrinsic motivation, pushing us to keep going, pushing us to engage, pushing us to engage, pushing us to want to try. Finally, be patient. Flow isn't something you can force. Sometimes it just happens. And when it does, please remember it.

Keep it in mind. I will, this is like a wild story, but I remember one of the first times I experienced flow was, and this is going to sound so cheesy, the first time I made a podcast episode for a uni assignment. Half the reason where I knew that this was going to be something that I was good at and that I was going to want to do and that I was going to love was because I made this podcast for like an international relations course when I was at uni. And I remember exactly where I was sitting. I was sitting on the third floor of this library at A&U, the university I went to. And I sat there without eating, without drinking, without going to the bathroom.

for I think five hours just making this podcast. And when you find flow, I think you also find purpose. Everybody wants to find what they're going to be great at, their dream job, you know, what they're here for. Flow is like your key to finding that. When you find flow, you find purpose. So slow down, try not to distract yourself. Try not to force yourself into it. Just listen to your environment, listen to your feelings, listen to your mental state, and flow will come a lot easier. And with that, so many other answers that you might be looking for in your life. So with that in mind, thank you for listening. Thank you for listening to this mini bonus episode.

I hope you enjoyed it. If you made it this far, please leave a little comment down below. When do you experience flow? And do you think that your flow state is aligned with your purpose? yes or no. I think it is. I know other people who think that flow alliance with more so what they're passionate with that they never want to make money off of or that is always going to be their escape or their hobby for them. So I want to hear your thoughts and your opinions. Make sure as well that you are following us. Hit the subscribe button. Hit the what is the button?

I think it's just a follow button. Hit the follow button so that you know when new episodes come out. We have some amazing episodes coming up this December. I just interviewed again. on the psychology of plastic surgery. I interviewed another one on the ambition trap. Like there's so much good stuff coming. So make sure that you are around for that. And follow us on Instagram at That Psychology Podcast. If you want to see more behind the scenes stuff

and what we're getting up to or engage with the community, there are so many opportunities for you to do that over there. Thank you as well to our research assistant Libby Colbert for her contributions to this episode. She is fantastic. She is amazing. We appreciate. her so much. But with all that being said, we will talk to you very soon. Stay safe. Be kind

and be gentle to yourself. See you later. On the Look Back at it podcast. In 1979, that was a big moment for me. 84's big to me. I'm Sam J. And I'm Alex English. Each episode, we pick a here, unpack what went down, and try to make sense of how we survived it with our friends, fellow comedians, and favorite authors. Like Mark Lamont Hill on the 80s. 84 was a wild year. It was a wild year. I don't think there's a more important year for black people. Listen to look back at it on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, what's good, y'all?

You're listening to Learn the Hard Way with your favorite therapist and host, Kear Games. This space is about black men's experiences, having honest conversations that it's really not safe to have anywhere, but you're having them with a licensed professional who knows what he's doing. How many men carry a suit or armor it? It signals to the world that you're not to be played with. And just because you have the capability that does not mean that you need to. Listen and learn the hard way on the AHA radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. In 2023, Bachelor star Clayton Eckerd was accused of fathering twins.

But the pregnancy appeared to be a hoax. You doctored this particular test twice, Ms. Owens, correct? I doctored the test ones. It took an army of internet detectives to uncover a disturbing pattern. Two more men who'd been through the same thing. Greg Gillespie and Michael Mancini. My mind was blown. I'm Stephanie Young.

This is Love Trapped. Laura, Scottsdale Police. As the season continues, Laura Owens finally faces consequences. Listen to Love Trapped podcast on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. 2%. That's the number of people who take the stairs when there is also an escalator available. I'm Michael Easter. And on my podcast, 2%.

I break down the signs of mental toughness, fitness, and building resilience in our strange modern world. Put yourself through some hardships, and you will come out on the other side a happier, more fulfilled, healthier person. Listen to 2%. That's TWO% on the IHeartRadio app,

Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. When a group of women discover they've all dated the same prolific con artist, They take matters into their own hands. I vowed. I will be his last target. He is not going to get away with this. He's going to get what he deserves. We always say that, trust your girlfriends.

Listen to the girlfriends. Trust me, babe. On the Iheart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. This is an IHeart podcast. Guaranteed human.