The Psychology of your 20s - 411. Growing up online, early fame and rediscovering your creativity ft. Arden Rose

Episode Date: April 30, 2026

TW: this episode includes discussions of eating disorders.  What happens when millions of people watch you grow up online? How do you navigate change, love and making mistakes in front of a massive audience? And how do you rediscover your creativity after creating content about your life, becomes your job? In today's episode we talk to one of the original YouTube 'it-girls', Arden Rose, about early fame, body image, art and her life lessons as she enters her 30s. We discuss:  How making YouTube videos at 14 turned into a full-time job The dark side of Hollywood and the entertainment industry  The biggest opportunity she missed out on...and why  Veganism, diet culture and self-esteem  The path back to creativity Her greatest pieces of advice for people in their 20s  PLUS SO MUCH MORE  Happy listening! Watch on Netflix: HERE Follow Arden here: @ardenrose  Watch her YouTube HERE    More links below (sorry) Follow Jemma on Instagram: @jemmasbeg Follow the podcast on Instagram: @thatpsychologypodcast Subscribe on Substack: @thepsychologyofyour20s For business: [e-mail]  The Psychology of your 20s is not a substitute for professional mental health help. If you are struggling, distressed or require personalised advice, please reach out to your doctor or a licensed psychologist.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an IHeart podcast. Guaranteed Human. You have the desire to help a real difference? The College, LaCite, you offer the program Dependance and Scenti Mental. Acquare the competences essential

for accompany and support the people confronted to the difficulties of health and of dependence. Construise a career enrichisance

to service of the community francophone of all the country. Donnay of Coney. It's possible

with the CIT. Visit CollageLacacac .C. D.M. A new initiative of the Consortium National of Formation in Health, supported by Santee Canada.

There was no anything inside those eyes. They turned black. It scared the hell out of me. Evil, wake up. I'm the one that saw the murder take place by Creveith and DePippo. Anthony DePippo showed no signs of remorse appearing unfazed after being sentenced to the maximum.

I said I'm not guilty. I'll take it to the grave. Listen to the devil's quarry in the Bone Valley feed on the IHeart Radio app. Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Joy is essential and it's also elusive, but now there's a new and exciting way to start your journey toward a more joyful existence. Joy 101. It's a new podcast hosted by me, Hoda Kotby. If you're craving inspiration to maximize your joy, tune into these candid, uplifting, and moving on-air chat. Open your free IHeart Radio app. Search Joy 101 and listen now.

Joy 101 with Hoda Kotbi is presented by CVS. Everyone sees me as a football player, but before anything else, I'm human. Every single day I'm still learning how to live with problems, mistakes, relationships, emotions ever since I was born. This isn't a normal podcast. Everything here is spontaneous, real, and genuine. Just honest conversations about what it means to be alive. I'm Javier El Chichariot Hernandez and listen to Learning to Be Here. Human on IHard Radio, Apple Podcasts, or whatever you get your podcast.

June is Black Music Month, and on the Drink Chams podcast, we're speaking with the hottest names in the culture, like Sway Lee. Do you realize how legendary you are? I appreciate that. I'd be seeing it, but I'm like, man, I still got, like, so much more to do. Like, Prince, he dropped like 30 albums. We dropped like five right now. That's the rate we got to be going.

Yep, that's a good attitude. No matter the era, Drink Chams brings you the biggest names and the most unfiltered conversation. Listen to Drink Chams from the Black Effect Podcast Network on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Hello everybody. I'm Jemma Spake and welcome back to the psychology of your 20s, the podcast where we talk through the biggest changes, moments and transitions of our 20s and what they mean for our psychology. Hello everybody. Welcome back to the show. Welcome back to the podcast. It is so great to have you here back for another episode. I have been really looking forward to this episode because today, not only do we have our first guest for our Netflix episodes, if you are watching over there, but we are talking about something a lot of us have experienced in very small ways, but very few people have experienced on a massive,

kind of life-defining scale, which is growing up on the internet. Over the last two decades, as social media has become more omnipresent and posting our entire lives has become more normalized. I think a lot of us are having this weird experience whereby our identity, our mistakes, our awkward years, our best years, our relationships are all documented, not just for us, but for other people. On a small scale, that might mean like embarrassing Facebook memories. For others, it means like millions of people getting to see you as you are still trying to figure out your life, expecting you to be the same, expecting you to grow in a certain way. And today's guest is somebody who has lived through all of that.

And more, she is one of the original YouTube creators or I would say YouTube It Girls of our generation. And she built a platform where I think at a time where nobody really understood what the internet could really become. And now as she enters her 30s, she is here to talk to us about that experience and how it has shaped her and her relationship to creating now. Arden Rose, welcome to the psychology of your 20s. Hi. Thank you so much for having. me. Oh, I'm so excited. I'm so excited to be here. I feel like you gave me a really nice setup. Really? Did you like my intro? I really did. Yeah, because I think it gave a good, I don't know, like a grounding of how I felt for a really long time, but I never put it into words.

Oh my God, that's what we always endeavor to do. We're going to talk about it so much, but you know what we were talking about on the elevator app is that you used to have a podcast? Yeah, I did. I did. It was called Crash on my couch, and it was really cute. It was me and my husband. been doing it together before we were married. And we would just talk about, like, random stuff. Like, he was really into the idea of getting to eventually go on a treasure hunt, which I think all straight cismen have some kind of fantasy for. And so we used to go on these, like, deep dives about, like, hidden treasures that we might be able to find and stuff like that. And then my segments were all about, like, animals that were extraordinary in the news.

Very, very diverse, very interesting topics that we were tackling. Important stuff. Honestly, wait, this gives me a business idea. Oh, yeah? There is money on the table for people to do themed birthday parties for grown men where they set up treasure hunts for them. 100%. 100%. It's kind of the same thing as like an escape room in a lot of ways.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. You think about it that way. They yearn for it. They yearn, they yearn to be trapped somewhere and to have to steal a golden eye roll. I think that's like the Indiana Jones of it all. Yeah. Yeah. Would you ever do another podcast?

I would. I just, I think I need a partner like you. I need like a cool gal pal to chat with. Galpal podcasts are really, really what it is. You know what I've realized is that I didn't even let you introduce yourself. So for people who may not know who you are, can you briefly introduce yourself? Tell us about your work. Tell us about yourself.

And yeah, how do you think most people know you? Yeah. Okay. Well, my name's Arden Rose. So that is my name. My actual name is Arden Rose Bricks. But I've always used my middle name just because like every basic white girl I have the middle name, Rose. And also my first name was so weird, but I feel like I needed, like, kind of a normal

second name to back it up. Where is your first name from? You know what? It's so funny. My mom came up with it. She used to live in Texas while she was pregnant with me. And she had a neighbor who used to make her baked goods, who was like quite an older lady. And I think her name was Arden, or her second name was Arden or her last name was Arden. And I'm assuming, because I've looked it up a few times that it has something to do with French spelling of Arden, which is like A-R-D-E-N-N-E-S. But my name is A-R-D-E-N. Like, Garden Without the G is what I tell every barista that ever has to write my name down. That is a great mnemonic device.

Yeah, because I've never heard the name Arden before. It's a weird one, man. Would you... If you had kids and not to like, we were literally talking about this before, would you give them a unique name? I totally would. I think about it all the time because I think it's like, it's... I think it's like really lame that men are allowed to carry their names down and like women don't have like as much of an okay to do it because Arden is such a cool name. Like I remember being a kid and being like, I've got a cool name. You know what I mean? I wasn't bullied for my name. Maybe I would hate it if I was bullied for my name. But I like I really want it to be like my kid's name now. Make the rules. Maybe I will. You should totally do it. I'll do a Laura like Gilmore thing. Well, I think that we must. Yes. I thought this post the other day that was like middle names used to be the way that women could pass down their names to their

to not be erased from the history of their children. And I was like, so I think it's going to be the new trend. Yeah, I think that's a good idea. I think Arden's a good middle name too. Yeah, beautiful middle name. Yeah. I completely interrupted you as you were talking about your beginning. No, I appreciate it.

No, I so appreciate it. Well, I think it's so funny. I think I have like different iterations of people who have watched me. Like there are some people who have literally watched me since I was like 14 years old in my like childhood bedroom in Little Rock, Arkansas. And to those, shouts out, y'all have. are the real ones out there. But yeah, that's a very different crowd than the people who probably found me in, like,

their college years when I had, like, just moved to L.A. and I was, like, living with all of these girls. We had kind of, like, a not a content house necessarily, because that was not a thing at the time. But it was, like, four girls who were all YouTubers living together, but doing, like, kind of separate things. And that was an era of time that people might know me. And then, like, as I grew up, then I started traveling more and met, my husband and eventually now have immigrated to the UK. What was it like in that content house,

like this YouTube house that you're in? You said it wasn't a content house. It feels like content house has a derogatory, like, because I just think of like the hype house for like team 10, which now feels like the ancient texts. Like, you know what I mean? Even though that was like, what, 10 years ago? It feels like it was like 20 years ago. But it was really cool. It was like kind of a funny thing because it's playing off a theme of like growing up on the internet, but I experienced a lot of like what people probably would have had in university or in college, like that same socialization with people who are in the same like peer group as you. But I was having it visibly online with other girls that were also having it visibly online while we were all

maintaining friendships together. So I think that was complicated because when you're 18 and 19, like that's a complicated relationships anyways oh my goodness um and so but i really enjoyed it it was like yeah and then also this is so random but like the whole reason that my husband and i got together was because rebecca black of friday thing yeah came over to our house and like we had had a night out the night before and she stayed over and the next morning we were all having breakfast together and i was like who's this random british guy that keeps sliding into my dms like who is this little did I know that I had already met him and I completely forgotten I had met him. But she like vouched for him and was like, oh no, he's really cool.

And you two would totally hit it off. Like you guys should go on a date together. No way. Yeah. So it's kind of butterfly effect. Like if I hadn't, you know, lived with those girls, I probably would have never. I wouldn't be sat here probably. I know.

Yeah. Take me back to like your first YouTube video. And before, because I have a lot of questions about this era of your life. But when did you post like your first video online? Yeah. You know what? It's so funny. It's like, it's really funny to think about how the history of YouTubers, like the history of the internet, like I was kind of not there for the creation of it, but I was there watching people go from doing like makeup tutorials online to being

like personalities online and like how that transformed and like why that shifted and changed. And I think in my case, it happened really organically because I was admiring all these like beauty gurus, you know, like the OG beauty gurus at the time, like Juicy Star 07 and all the, you know, Blair Fowler and L. Fowler and like, you know, all these people and Gigi gorgeous. Gigi Gorgeous. I used to watch her religiously. Girl, like so many different people. Bub's Beauty, I don't know if you remember her. She was, she's like an, I think she was Irish, but she was like an amazing Michelle Hawn. Oh my God. Yeah, I do. And she had read, is this what I'm thinking of Bugs Beauty?

Bugs Beauty, I think, is different than Bubs Beauty. Oh, okay. But she had really cute dog. I know. It's just so fun. Everyone had such cute usernames. I wish we stuck to usernames. But, you know, it was kind of the era still of like the Stranger Danger era, which is so

funny because now everyone posts everything always. But I was just watching these people and really loving it. And then I had a friend named Kennedy who went to my school when I was younger and then moved to Texas for, I think, for her dad's job. And when she moved, we would watch YouTube videos together, like in middle school. And so I started sending her, like, we would make kind of like fake beauty guru videos like to each other, like getting ready in the morning. And right? And so we would send it back and forth. But then it became a bit of this thing where like we both started getting followers from like people watching us get ready for each other. And so.

became this thing where like that's kind of where it started and I lost all those videos which I'm really sad about like I think I privateed all of them when I was probably like 18 because I just thought I'm so young in these videos even at 18 I was like I'm too young to be like have these videos on the internet yeah um which is also really funny because even at that that time when I was posting as like a 14 year old girl I and I mean this sincerely never had a creepy comment not once I was completely I don't know what I don't know what was looking out for me really but I I was completely sheltered from like purves. Were your parents worried about that?

Did they ask you? Well, they didn't exactly know about it initially. I, the only reason I told my parents about it when I was, I think I was 16 years old when I finally told them. So I'd been like two years of very intermittent posting. Like I would post like a video and I would post like four videos a week and then I wouldn't post for like two months. Yeah. You know, like just team stuff. And then I, Google AdSense became a thing.

And you needed to have a bank account and you needed to have a bank account and you needed to have your parents' permission if you were going to sign up. I was 16 years old and I was like, I think I can make money doing this. Like that was the first like inkling that anything. And I think I probably had like 20,000 followers on YouTube at the time. Granted, also the other thing about YouTube at that time was that it was such a small ecosystem that there weren't that many people to watch that were making content like that. So like it's so ubiquitous now. Everyone, everyone has access to it and everyone feels. Everybody's thought about it. Yeah, totally. I have to admit like everybody has thought about, what if I made YouTube videos? What if I post a TikToks?

Absolutely. So it was, but it was like at the time for me, it was like a thing like, you can make money doing that. You know what I mean? Like, oh, okay, well, that's interesting. So I remember I told them when I was 16 and they were like, well, are you being safe? Like not knowing what question to really ask me for that. Like, are you like an amorphous, are you being safe? And I'm like, yes, I think. Like, I'm 16. Like, I don't know. But I was also, I'm one of four kids. So I think they were. just like happy that I wasn't, you know, joining some kind of cult. Yeah, yeah, yeah, doing something else nefarious. It's so interesting that you're like, I never got a creepy comment, but your first

video you posted when you were 14, yeah. And what, wait, what was that video? Was it like I could get ready with me? Yeah, I think it was a get ready with me. It also could have been like a review of something. You know what it might have been? It might have been so, like, silly, like so lame now to think about. But I think at the time, you know, Mac Cosmetics was like huge. And I remember there was this significant. Right? And there was this brush called the Mac 217 brush that was like the blending brush. Everyone was like obsessed with.

I can see it in my mind's eye to this day. What color was it black? It was, well, all the black like Mac handles. And then it had white like really soft bristles. I remember this. I want this brush now. But maybe they've changed it. I don't know.

But I remember I went to Mac and I bought that and I bought, I think a single eye shadow. and I came home and I did a haul with my two items. Oh, my goodness. My heart. I probably thought I was being so cool because Michelle Fawn used that brush. So I was like, I got it. Well, this is what I was going to ask you about. It was like back then, which you've kind of already answered.

And what is it like to watch those videos back now, knowing what the internet is these days? because back then it was such low production value. Yeah. And it was really organic. And now it's this, it's mega. Like literally people now realize like being online can make you a millionaire, could make you a billionaire in some situations. Maybe we're not at that level yet.

But pretty close. Like what was it before that kind of, what was it like before that took over? Yeah. I don't, it's interesting because it's like, you're so right. People just didn't really have like the means to figure out that it was such a thing until it was and then everyone who could possibly exploit it, kind of like figured out how to work algorithms and stuff.

I think that was like a really interesting phase of YouTube. But I think before that point, there was this real kind of like ooey-goey-goor of people on YouTube that were like kind of, not anti-social people, because I think that has like a negative connotation, but people that maybe felt more comfortable being creative in their bedrooms on the internet,

which is like a very different thing than wanting to make money on the internet. Right? Like that's like those are two different types of people. Oh yeah. And sometimes that have been diagram exists. But for me, it was like I didn't feel like I had a lot of friends at school. My friend Kennedy had just moved.

You know, I was like joining cheer and I was like very awkward. And I was just like I had a really bad haircut at the time. And I think all of that to be said, I think like I was looking to express myself to someone or something like just like gab out loud. I was kind of screaming into the void Yeah But by just like showing Mac eye shadows You know Yeah

Yeah yeah love me Except me Help me help me figure out How to be like a young woman Yeah So yeah That was sort of like The genesis of it

And then also like I There were limitations as far as like Set up Like I had to wait for my dad To come home Because his crappy laptop

Had a webcam in it You filmed on the On the MacBook? It wasn't even a MacBook It was like an HP It was so buggy it was so bad. I remember like there were months where I couldn't record anything because he would get so many viruses on his laptop that he would have to like go get it wipes. Like I remember when that was a thing. Yes. MacAfee, babe. Oh yeah, big time. So yeah, there was like, yeah, just moments where like stuff like that would happen. It was just kind of like an organic break. Yeah. And then, but I remember there were times like that where I would go on my comment section and, you know, there'd be like five or five or six comments on a video. And one of them would be like, where's she been all this time? And it's like, it's. It's. It's.

funny to think that that was the reason I wasn't there. Yeah. I mean, you were like, I feel seen. Like, people miss me. Don't worry, girls. I'm coming back. All three of you watching, I'm coming back. Yeah. Sorry, guys, I've been on a little break. I just want to be completely transparent about what's been going on. Yes. Let's address it. Lots of stuff happening in my personal life. Lots of viruses on my dad's laptop. Yeah. What was the first video of yours that went like viral? It was and was like virality even a thing back then. Yeah, it definitely was. I think virality had a had a different connotation. Like, I'll use Rebecca as an example.

Like Friday had a very different virality than what viral is today. Like, viral today is something popular for a week. Yeah. Like, viral back then was popular for years. Yeah. Like, talked about for years. Yeah. Like, where have they been kind of vibes?

You know, like, when you think about the chocolate rain guy, Tezonde, or Rebecca for Friday, or, like, all these people, like, they still have these, like, statements next to them like, you know, capital chocolate rain guy. Yeah. Because they were like, you know, integral parts of the internet. Whereas now it's like nothing can really. And nobody can trace it back to who started it. No, exactly. Yeah. And it's, yeah. And I don't know. We can't just anything nowadays. So it's just like hard for it for anyone to like be 100% on anything. Yeah, we live in a really weird time. But at the time, I think I did a video. This is so lame. but so the bad haircut happened and then I made a video

where I had researched a bunch of stuff as a probably 15 year old okay 16 year old maybe of ways that I could grow my hair back so wait what was the haircut we need to know the haircut first it was just a bob it was a bob like it was just a bob

but it wasn't like a funky little bob it was like a no it wasn't a chic it wasn't a chic it wasn't French Claire but it was fine it wasn't atrocious like I think I was just like insecure And I was a, you know, a Southern girl who had...

15, 16. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. So I had made this video and it went really, really viral. Like, I think it had like millions of views. Wow. Which is so funny because it was obviously just people like, before I knew what SEO was. Oh, yeah.

It's like someone just searching, I don't want to grow my hair back. And they're getting some dumb ass 16 year old and Little Rock Arkansas telling them how to grow that, like, I know anything. What was your advice? Was it like... I don't even remember. It was bad. You could barely hear it. The audio is so bad.

And again, I'm recording it on like either, do you remember those flip cameras? Yes. It was either one of those which sounded like you were, it sounded and looked like you were in the ocean. Or it was my dad's MacBook, which also looked like it was in the ocean. So. But being in the ocean is good for the hair. You know it. So true.

Wait a second. It's all coming together. That is so funny. This brings me to, I think the real big question of this episode, which is like, what's been the hardest part of growing up online? Like you've spent half of your last. on the internet. Do you feel like as you've entered your 30s, like people who know you from back then have like expectations for you?

Yeah. I think I have like a really interesting audience. Like I said, I've like picked up these like little core cool girl groups all say like throughout time and space. But for the most part, I have always had like a really intelligent, really emotionally mature and very kind audience. Like I've always had really, really sweet people follow me. I've never felt bullied by my audience.

And I've never felt like put on the back foot. And I think part of that is because I've never been someone who has like that serious viral fame that usually comes with some kind of outrage or, you know, like. I don't know. Like I always just think about how like as women, if you get to a certain point of virality, there will always be like a guillotine waiting for you. You know what I mean? Like Chapel Rhone is a great example right now. Like don't even get me. started on that because I could go on for so long about that. But, but, but so I've had kind of like

this weird privilege where because I've been a bit of a middling creator in the sense that like, I've, you know, I still have like millions of followers, but people have tens of millions of followers now. People have like hundreds of millions of followers now. Um, I've always been able to maintain this like cool, smart, sweet group of people all the way through. Yeah. And that's been like such a blessing. Yeah. I honestly relate to the. that a lot. I have this full theory that it's like an elevator. It's a Taylor Swift lyric. Okay. It's like an elevator that rises. Yeah. Elevator that rises too fast, like never lasts. And I genuinely do believe it where it's like a lot of people will get online and be like,

I want to be famous and I want this and I want that. And it's like, be careful what you wish for. Like the slow burn of like really caring and about what you're doing is going to take you so much further. And it's really interesting, something you said before of like you started YouTube because, like, it sounds like you just really wanted to make videos because you just liked it. And, you know, you were waiting for your dad to get home and you were trying to communicate with your long-distance friend and you were just like enjoying it as a craft. And I think that's something that people these days don't have. Yeah. People always like, how do you start a podcast?

Like, how did you make money off your podcast up about? And it's like, you don't start at wanting to make money. Yeah. Like, that's literally, you've already lost. Like the moment you're like, I want to do this so that I can be. famous. Yeah. If you're like one percent of people who have that intention, maybe it happens, but it like drops off so quickly. It's like this whole crazy, crazy thing. You don't have the inner well to keep up the energy to keep doing stuff. If that's the main goal, then once you get

famous or once you get enough money, then like where's the spark to continue it? Yeah, it's nowhere. Or once you get your first, like have you ever had any controversy? Because I feel like once you get your first thing like that. Yeah. Then it knocks you off. Oh, yeah, yeah. Yeah. I know. I haven't really ever had a big controversy. I like, I stream video games. So I do like, I play cozy games online. Really? Yeah. Oh, my God. I didn't know that. Oh, yeah. On the Twitch. Yeah, yeah. And like, especially on, um, I used to play a lot of Animal Crossing. So like, Animal Crossing was my big game all through lockdown. Um, and during like the whole Black Lives Matter movement, I raised a bunch of money for the bail project. Like the most money I've ever raised for charity. And it was like such a big deal to

me. But my family's very conservative. And so the only controversy is, Controversy as I have ever been in are with interpersonal relationships. I'm, I'll feel really good about something that I've done online and I'll be like, I'm really glad that I did that. And I feel really proud of like my audience to be able to do something like that. And then I get like pushback from my personal life. You have the reverse. Yes. Yeah. That is really interesting. Totally. So it's like a weird thing of sort of just being like, you know, having to kind of be my own best friend in that situation. Yeah. You know. Well, and it's often because people will find, you know, controversy online and to see. protection in your family. And it's like, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. It's, she's doing it different. You have the desire to help us. The College, LaCite, you offer the program

Dependance and Sentental. Acquare the competences essential for accompany and support the people confronted to the health mental and deppandance. Construise a career enriching to service of the community

francophone of all the country. Don't know the soin of quality in French, it's possible with TheC. Visit Collage Lacitcite. comc. right now.

An initiative of the Consortium National of Formation in Sanctus by Sancta Canada. In the

moment, it felt like it was going on forever. I didn't think I was going to live. I was

terrified. There was no anything inside those eyes. They turned black. It scared

the hell out of me. That was your first murder case? Yes, sir. Fear to say this was the

biggest case of your career? Yes, sir. Rape a murder of a child 12-year-old as bad as it gets.

I would think so. evil wake up i'm the woman saw the murder take place by crevette and de pippo anthony de pippo showed no signs of remorse appearing unfazed after being sentenced to the maximum i said i'm not guilty i'll take it to the grief listen to the devil's quarry on the i heart radio app apple podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts and to hear the devil's quarry ad free with exclusive content subscribe to love of for good Plus on Apple Podcasts. Hey, I'm Hoda Kotby, host of the podcast, Joy 101 with Hoda Kotby. Together, we're going to have meaningful conversations with the world's most fascinating people, like when actress Olivia Munn shared how she overcame fierce health challenges. I've gone through breast cancer and then helped my mother through breast cancer, and that was more difficult.

There's a lot of people who understand postpartner depression. I was not prepared for postpartum anxiety. Listen to Joy 101 with Hoda Kotby on the IHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. And there's an ton of exciting because their new star is Javier Tichorito Hernandez. Everyone sees me as a football player, but before anything else, I'm human. Every single day I'm still learning how to live with problems, mistakes, relationships, emotions ever since I was born.

And I still have so many questions. Where do we come from? What happens after death? How do you deal with cancellation? Cristiano or Messi? Do aliens exist? What is love? Real Madrid or

Barza From every day and ordinary To the deep and extraordinary This isn't a normal podcast Everything here is spontaneous

Real and genuine This podcast is like a deep talk With your closest friends Where vulnerability comes out Conspiracy theories End up on the table

And goals and lessons are shared In this life has a order Perfecto and all is just But hey I'm I'm going to

I'm going to We are here to connect The Chicharito And Javier Chichorandoes And together with Ica Radio

We're going to make the ordinary extraordinary. Stay close. It is a carac. Listen to learning to be human or I have radio, Apple Podcasts, or whatever you get your podcast. Here's something that should

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I had to go down Robert Lee Boulevard. to the grocery store, I had to go down Jefferson Davis Parkway. If you're an historian and you leave out half of what the history is, you're not doing your job. I'm Akila Hughes, and Rebel Spirit Season 2 goes deep on both of those things. The fights, the politics, the people who won, and my personal campaign to add something to the Kentucky State House that's actually worth the wall space. We are more than our bodies. We contain essence.

We contain spirit. How do you represent that? They are just fueling a fire. That is really catching. You'll see what I mean. Listen to Rebel Spirit Season 2 on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Can we talk about something a bit more personal? Yeah.

Which was you obviously shared a lot of, you know, shared some of your experiences going through an eating disorder when you were online. Yeah. Do you think that like being online at a young age kind of contributed or do you think it was already there and just kind of followed you through those early years of the journey? Yeah. I think it's so funny like I mean nothing about eating disorders is funny but sometimes you got to you got a laugh but you cry but it's um I think for me I think I think disordered eating but a lot of like less understood but very culturally prevalent mental disorders are or like mental health problems are things that people broadly understand but don't but like the minutia of them are kind of like complicated and so for mine I have I had such like a combo where I felt really out of control when I was growing up and when I was a like a teenager, like felt very isolated from people in my school. And I also have Trichotillomania, which is like a hair pulling disorder. It's so bad right now. Like I have no eyelashes. But I used to

do that as well, but I started getting fake lashes. Yeah. And it helped me. Whoa, you have Trick. Well, I would just do my eyelashes. It was just like a nervous thing, but I never really identified as having it. I would just put my eyelashes out. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I would just put my eyelashes out. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I pull my ashes out too. It's funny. It's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, you know, because, like, you know, because, like, you understand, like, clinical psychology, but there's so many, like, layers and cross layers of what things could be, right? So when I was younger, I was like, I think I have OCD because I do this hair pulling thing. It's compulsive. And I also, my eating disorder was very wrapped up around, like, threes. Like, I would tell myself, I could only eat three things. So it was, it was like, interesting. I remember for a while it was, like, apples, triscuits, and cheese. And I can have as much as I wanted, but I just needed to eat those three things. And there was no reason, like, there was no religious reason, which threes are usually kind of a religious thing. And there was no, like, doom spiraling OCD if I don't do this, something bad's going to happen.

But I just had this, like, feeling of control that was really important to me. So that's what my eating disorder kind of like started out as. And then as the internet developed, veganism got really big because of, Cowspiracy. And again, completely think that is so, like, valid. Yeah. But then there was this huge, like the way the pendulum swings, there was like that banana lady. What was her name?

Freely. She used to. Girl. Sorry. Girl. Fun fact. She lives still near where I grew up. That's so scary.

That's so dark-sighted. I know. She lives actually, like, deep in the rainforest of Australia. She always looked like she did. Oh, yeah, yeah. Like deep. all those bananas. I don't know. And now her whole thing is like drinking, okay, no. No, because she just started posting again, didn't she? Yeah. Sorry. Sorry. I'm getting off topic. And with you sharing

sensitive stuff, I'm sorry. But yeah, so freely the banana go. I think she genuinely not to make, you know, irreputable claims, but triggered a lot of people into a state that was not great. I think so. I think part of the problem was that she was a very visibly thin woman who was like attractive by societal standards and was also had the craziest fucking diet you've ever seen. Like that was a crazy diet. And so I think it did like push a lot of people like both this sort of rise in veganism and this kind of moral guilt of eating animal byproducts. And then also this rise of like this conventionally attractive person with a crazy diet I think pushed me and I started eating vegan. And again, I have vegan friends who eat very healthily.

and eat so well and take care of themselves. I was not doing that. I was, like, restricting, girl. I don't think I had a solid bowel movement for, like, three years. This is the size people don't talk about. People don't talk about it. It's gross. Yeah.

You eat a salad, you poop a salad. It's like, it's really something. You can put that strap line to this episode. Eat a salad, you poop a salad. Yeah. But, yeah, just like in general, it was just like I, again, it became this way. of controlling. And then it became also this like moral thing as well where people associated me on the internet with like eating vegan food. And I don't think it was healthy either because I think

I was too thin at that point. And I was showing other girls that the way to be thin, poop yourself every day was by eating vegan. And like I wasn't doing it well. I wasn't giving like whole meals. I wasn't showing people how to do it right. I was just, you know, picking the thing that was the most vegan on a menu, even if it was like the cucumber salad with no protein and no carbs and nothing but a cucumber, you know? So that's kind of like where I was like, I kind of need to do something else with this because I'm having headaches all the time and I'm really tired and I guess I'm pooping. Yeah.

So, and you know, I think I really messed up my digestive system. That's the other thing that like people don't really talk about is like even now to this day I have so many digestive issues because of all the eating, the disordered eating that I was doing in my developmental years from when I was like 14 or 13 even until, you know, maybe six years ago. Yeah. Yeah. Well, it is a big thing, right?

Your stomach starts to eat itself, basically. Totally. Which is, again, like, I think a lot of people, and these days with skinny talk, it's like, you just don't understand what you're doing to your body long time. Can I actually come back to this, this, what sounds like kind of a big realization for you, which is like, maybe I wasn't doing this the right way? Like, how have you kind of felt about that as you've gotten older, being like, I don't know, not to say you misguided people, but have you ever been like, I don't know, like,

how do you feel about it now? Yeah. Maybe, I don't want to say set an example for other people because I don't think you deserve to feel like guilt about it. But yeah, how do you feel about it? That was like something you live through online. Like, I still, I feel really guilty about certain videos I posted. There was like, I remember there was one video that I posted. It was supposed to be kind of like a clickbait title that then I would flip it on its head.

And I would be like, you don't need to worry about this because this is stupid. And it was like five ways to look thinner. But it was when you got into the video, I was like, this is so dumb, like the way that people do this. Like these are, I basically like gathered all these different ways that people talk about it online. And then was like, this is how people are trying to look thinner online. Isn't this so silly? Like this is so stupid. Like journalism, like a real, like journalistic video.

Almost like journalism. Yeah. But I took it down because that video got crazy views. And what I realized in the comments was like my audience at the time was like 19 year old girls. and they weren't reading it the way that I was posting about it, if that makes sense. They saw the title and they clicked it so that they could actually get advice. And I was pushing them into these corners of the internet that were basically Skinny Talk before Skinny Talk existed, Tumblr pages, like talking about stuff.

And like, I didn't even realize it until I got older. And I remember when I first posted that video, I was sort of like, wow, this video is doing really well. It's getting millions of views and like kind of ignored the moral complication of it. And then sounds so crazy, but Amy Poehler had a production company. I think she probably still does. She might run her podcast through it. But I had a meeting with her production company because I was like, would love to just do something with you.

Anything if you need like a host to do something, whatever. It was just one of those like Hollywood meetings that I was having. And I remember I sat down with one person from her production team. And the only thing she said to me as like a 20 year old was she was like, we can't work with you because your content doesn't align with us. And I was like, what? What do you mean? My content doesn't align with you. And it was that video.

She had seen the thumbnail. She had seen the title of it. And she was like, this girl is promoting eating disorders. Like, this girl is promoting like, yeah. Like, yeah. And so, like, I was so, I remember, like, my stomach dropping and, like, me trying to explain it. And I remember being really mad about it afterwards. But, like, and that was before the era of, like, clickbait titles are the only thing that you read, like, when you only read a headline.

Right. I feel like now that. that's so prevalent. Like, I'm even bad about that. So I was kind of annoyed at her that she didn't take the time to, like, look at the context of the video. But after that meeting, I immediately went home and took it down. It was like one of my most viewed videos. And I was like, taking that down. And also feeling like so ashamed and so horrible for like, you know, months, but also feeling like righteous fury where I was like, she doesn't even know me. She doesn't even know me. But I was like, that's defensiveness. Like, that was actually probably a good thing that she had

said that to me because I'm really glad that I, like, had a chance to, like, fix that, If that makes sense. But it's so interesting because it's like, I see your intention. Right. I see your intention of being like if somebody is going through this or is going to look for this. Yeah. This is kind of like a reverse psychology thing of like, I'm going to lure them in and be like, don't.

Yes. That's exactly what I was trying to do. Exactly. But also. It was ahead of its time. Totally. But also it's coming from the wrong person. I'm not the person that should be talking about that period.

Yeah. You know what I mean? It's this like funny place where I'm the person that they're going to listen to about that kind of thing because I'm their age and I like look like them. but also I'm not the person that should be giving me a place. But also I'm at their age and I look like them. Yes. Like that's the thing.

It's like way. Yeah. Yeah. Because at that time had you been open about the fact that you were maybe struggling with disordered eating? Yeah. I think I had talked about that a lot on the internet at that point. Yeah.

Like I think that had been something. And I think that was also a time when a lot of people were starting to talk about body positivity. But then also I think I resonated less with that because so much of my disorder eating, like I said, was about control. And so it was like, like everything numbers was really important to me. My trichotillomania was really bad. Like, you know, I was just like struggling with all of my other mental problems.

And then like, then the eating disorder was the way to kind of like gain a bit of control back, you know. So I couldn't really understand. Like, I don't know. I feel like I was coming at it from like a like a, I felt like it was a really like personal angle. When in reality that's how like a lot of people deal with eating disorders. Like that's a very common. common way to be introduced into an eating disorder is like lacking control. But it definitely opened my eyes like to what like body neutrality could look like. And that seemed to be.

That's freedom. Genuinely. Everybody tries to body positive is fine. Body neutrality is the best. I really love it. I could stick my teeth into that. Oh, it's delicious. Yeah. Eat that up. Oh yeah. And as I get older, I think that's the other thing too is like I think I also like being in Hollywood and going on auditions and stuff because I was auditioning and I was acting from when I was 16. So I would go, like, that's how I originally kind of got slightly bigger on YouTube was because I got picked up by this, like, show called Awesomeist TV, which was like. Oh my goodness.

Flashback. I remember that. And they would do like all these TV shows, but on YouTube, right? It was like, I think it was backed by Nickelodeon. Yeah, yeah. And so it was basically like supposed to be like a tween, like in the same way that Nickelodeon has always done a really good job of making tween content. They tried to do that for YouTubers. So I became, and I lived like down the studio, like down the road from the studio.

And so I used to just walk to work to like film episodes with them and da-da-da-da. But that being kind of like my jump off point, I started auditioning and doing all this stuff. And being critiqued as like a 21 year old, a 20-year-old on your body, your looks, like everything. Like I remember walking into auditions where they would just like immediately turn off the camera. Like they wouldn't even, like, they would let me go through with the whole thing and then I would look and I would realize the camera was never on because I was just not the look. And that's fine. But there's just like an ego death that happens like every time. So I think that was also just like, I was in a unique circumstance in that way as well. I think this is something that you wouldn't know unless you were in industries that a tangent. Oh, in entertainment industry or tangential is like there is always this thought of like, would I be more successful if I was skinnier. Totally. Totally. I have thought about that. I think about that all. time. Yeah. No, completely. And it's also like, I think it's, again, it's kind of a control issue because

when you're in industries like that where there is literally nothing else is in your control, you are not the NEPO baby that can have the like mom and dad call to make sure that like someone actually pays attention to you in a room or like sees your name on a sheet. So if there is anything that you can control, it's learning your lines and starving yourself. Like that seems to be like the two things that at the time I thought I had control over, which is not. And if you're thin, everybody's going to look at you. Like, that's the thing. It's like you're going to be noticed more.

Yeah. It's such a mind. Yeah. It's funny, though, because I think that. And then I think about, like, because sometimes I think about, like, what I would do now if I was in that same situation. I'm like, I actually think I would have looked a lot more unique. And I think I would have been a lot more castable had I just been, like, very normal. I think if I had just been, like, very normal, I could let the Nepo babies be, like, the really hot, thin people.

and then I could be like the normal girl, which is usually what I got cast for anyways. Yeah. So do you do much acting these days? No, no. Have you kind of been like, I'm done with that? I'm kind of done with it. Again, I keep coming back to this problem of control. But like, even when you do get cast, there's like a very good chance the person who

cast you is like a man who likes you in some way. And so it's just like, it's just not, I don't know. Like my husband's a filmmaker and a writer and a director. So he is totally in on that. And like, I love the writing side of things now. Yeah. Interesting. Yeah.

And I've always said, like, I would do acting again, but only if I had, like, a lot of control over it. Yeah. I, like, so enjoyed. I got to work on a comedy for four years. That was really amazing. It was so fun. Yeah, it was really, really cool. It kind of got, like, put into the bin of history because it was, like, it was for one of

those, like, apps where it has, like, a weird timing of, like, runtime for, each episode. Like, it wasn't a half hour and it wasn't split into quarters. So it was kind of a weird one to place. What was the comedy? It was called Mr. Student Body President. Oh my God, Mr. Student Body President. Okay, everybody go and give this woman some royalties.

I have no idea where it's playing. I don't know if I've ever gotten a royalty for it, but if you can find it. But the guy, my good friend Jeremy Sheda, who's the voice of Finn from Adventure Time, he was the lead. So I became, like, really good friends with him because we hung out so much for the last, like, four years. So it was like really good things that would happen. Yeah. In tandem with like the shit stuff. Really terrible stuff. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That makes so much sense. And you know what? The segways into the next questions have been so smooth because this is what I was

going to ask you about next, which is like how is your relationship to like the media and social media and your career? Like how have things changed in recent years? Have you felt more of a desire to be online? Like I'm sure there was a period when you were an actor. where you were kind of like maybe I shouldn't be online as much like maybe I should have this more professional look like I'm putting words in your mouth. How is it how has it changed for you? I think I'm going to be honest because I did social media from when I was a kid and I did it like without earning money and enjoyed it so much and it was like my emotional release. It was like my social release and it gave me like all my friends. It gave me my future like all these amazing things.

I stopped wanting to do it for a while because I hated the idea that like I was just doing this now to make money. Like that that like that inverse relationship between like making money and posting on like authentic content like became really unbalanced. Yeah. Where I was like I'm doing this because I need to like make my rent. I'm not doing this because I necessarily want to be posting these things. Yeah. Yeah, it kind of got to that point. And I've had like ebbs and flows of that.

And I think when it came to the acting stuff, I always really loved the, I was really passionate about it. And I think of it as like an art form, obviously. And filmmaking is an art form. And if there was ever a world where I could have actually done that and made money and like felt secure in that, I think I would have thrown my phone into the ocean and like never posted anything ever again. But that's just also not realistic because that didn't happen. And that's like a, you know, like a retrospective fantasy. But I think nowadays, I think that's like not how that would have gone. Yeah, like I think I probably still would have posting stuff. Just because you loved it so much? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And I'm like, I'm a blabbermouth, as you can tell.

This is what I'm saying. You need to start on your podcast. It's the ultimate medium. Blabber mouth. Yeah, it's amazing. So do you think you're going to keep posting for like the rest of your life? This is something people ask me. Probably, yeah.

Yeah. Like, it wouldn't shock me. Yeah. Well, because also like, not to like segue way too early. No. But because you are doing my job for me and it is this is what I'm saying. So how's your day been to that? Are you looking at the...

So as I'm wanting to segue way into the next now, I've just realized how important it is. And like I've gone from being kind of resentful of feeling like this is the only way that I can make money. Because also I'm not college educated. I didn't go to college. Like I... What was that decision like quickly? Well, I...

Well, okay. So it's so funny because it's like it's the political burblings of like what you're conservatives were valuing in like 2008 Obama era. Yeah. Um, which was like, actually, we don't like college anymore. Like the anti-intellectualism kind of started popping off. But also, um, it's so funny because all three of my siblings are really highly educated, like two of them went to grad school. So I'm like, I don't know where one of them went to law school and one of went to grad school. So I'm like, I don't know where the hell I became the one. But also I think part of it was that my parents were like our like middle class Arkansasans. And they were like,

oh, one of them doesn't want to go to college. That's kind of cool. And she's already making money. And like my dad was the one who would fly me to L.A. and like be with me when I would do like the awesome as TV stuff. And like when I would get these little for awesmith TV, I was getting $600 a week to like come in on the weekend. And then. That is low. Huge. Huge for a teenager. Yeah.

But like huge for a teenage, but not for life. Yeah. No. Yeah. Totally. But like in my head. Working in the weekends, like doing all this crazy stuff. Oh yeah.

Oh yeah. And so it is for a teenager. Like, wow. Totally. And also that being said, it would be once a month. So it was $600 a month. Yeah. To get flown out.

And I thought it was the most glamorous thing in the entire world. And it was. But like, I was like, I've got my own money. I could pay rent because I had been saving all my money. money. Like I wasn't, what was I spending my money on in Little Rock, Arkansas? So I would just, like, save all my money. So I had this, like, little fat pad from when I was 16 until I was like 18 to be able to get rent and da-da-da-da. And so I applied to NYU. And I applied to UCLA. And those are the only two schools that I applied to. And I got waitlisted at UCLA. And I didn't get into NYU. So I was like,

well, I guess I'm going to fly to California and see what happens. Because like, maybe I'll get into UCLA. Maybe they'll, oh, so sweet to think that that was going to happen. I actually love that. I love that you were like the big uni's. Yeah. I was like, they're going to let me in. Yeah. Do they don't know who I am? Have they not seen awesome this TV? Come on. But yeah, so I ended up getting like a really shitty apartment at this place called Park La Brea. What part of L.A. is it in? It's, okay. If you know L.A., you will know this place. It is, and if you visit, you will know it. It's, it's in West Hollywood. Okay. Or it's in Hollywood. And it's right by the grove. It's like, right down the road. It's those giant towers that are always saying, like, cheap apartments, cheap

apartments. The reason why they're cheap, allegedly, is because they are absolutely, I can't tell you how many cockroaches and how many bedbugs. Oh my God. The bedbugs are the one. Cockroaches I can live with bedbugs. Crazy. Maybe probably not. No, listen, you can live with a cockroach until they start coming out of your faucet, like a horror movie. Like it is a devious, quite devious. And also, the other thing I didn't understand about these apartments, sorry, I'm going on a random. I love, please. But they also, their windows were so high. I lived on the 30th floor.

And the windows didn't have screens on them. Oh, my God. You're asking for someone to take a tumble. Oh, my God. Like, somebody could just have an, like, fall through. That is crazy. Crazy. It always freaked me out.

Yeah. Like, you know, like, I think that's where my fear, like, a large fear of, like, heights has come from. You know, when you're, like, looking over something really, really high and you're like, I could just fall off of this right now. Or like I could just jump. Like there's something about staring like into that that. That I remember doing that a lot when I was in my apartment, not like in a creepy way,

but just in like a like, like, I really don't want that to happen. Like I kept like having dreams about accidentally slipping out of the window. I feel like that's very ericited to be real with you. Like this obsession around like yeah, it could happen. It could happen. What's to, I used to have this where I'd be like, what's to say that I actually didn't for yesterday and this is just bit of it. Anyways, we'll not get that.

Whoa. Sorry, should not put that in people's heads. Whoa. Oh, I got. Oh, I got some next time. to mull over later. I know. Well, hopefully you don't live on a 30 floor.

No, think on third floor. Way better. Very much. Safe. Way happier about that. Safe. Yeah. Pride is like love.

You feel it in your heart. I-R-Radio. Canada's number one streaming app for radio and podcasts, including I-Hart Pride Canada, your favorite hits and must-have party bangers, plus personalized and curated playlists. Like back-in-the-day pride. Come together, celebrate love. Take pride with you. Anytime, anywhere.

Just ask your smart speaker to play IHart Pride Canada. Stream us on your phone. Well, and listen now. In the moment, it felt like it was going on forever. I didn't think I was going to live. I was terrified. There was no anything inside those eyes. They turned black.

It scared the hell out of me. That was your first murder case? Yes, sir. Fear to say this was the biggest case of your career? Yes, sir. Rape a murder for a child, a child. as bad as it gets. I would think so.

Evil, wake up. I'm the one that saw the murder take place by Creveit and DePippo. Anthony DePippo showed no signs of remorse, appearing unfazed after being sentenced to the maximum. I said I'm not guilty. I'll take it to the grief. Listen to the devil's quarry on the Iheart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

And to hear the devil's quarry ad free with exclusive content, And subscribe to Love for Good Plus on Apple Podcasts. Hey, I'm Hoda Kotby, host of the podcast, Joy 101 with Hoda Kotby. Together, we're going to have meaningful conversations with the world's most fascinating people. Like when actress Olivia Munn shared how she overcame fierce health challenges. I've gone through breast cancer and then helped my mother through breast cancer, and that was more difficult. There's a lot of people who understand postpartner depression.

I was not prepared for postpartum anxiety. Listen to Joy 101 with Hoda Kotby on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Because their new star is Javier T. Torito Hernandez. Everyone sees me as a football player, but before anything else, I'm human. Every single day, I'm still learning how to live with problems, mistakes, relationships, emotions, ever since I was born. And I still have so many questions. Where do we come from? What happens after death?

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Wow. Listen to learning to be human on IHard Radio, Apple Podcasts, or whatever you get your podcast. Keith Gianmanca seemed like a mild-mannered suburban dad, but secretly, he became someone else, a master of disguise who went on a crime spree. At the time, did it seem like a crazy idea? It seemed very crazy, but I felt so desperate that I felt it was the quickest, easiest way out. Did you allow yourself to think about how it could go wrong on what that might look like? No, I didn't want to manifest that. I was trying to manifest success.

Every family has its secrets. But what happens when you discover that your dad has been living a double life? that is not the look of an innocent man. This is going to change my life and my family dynamic forever because everything that had existed prior in my reality is now untrue. Listen to Deep Cover the Family Man on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. How's your career? What are you doing now? I feel like you're kind of in this period of starting fresh.

Yeah. What does it like to start afresh as like you enter 30? Yeah, it's, I think it's been like a cool, that's been really, it's felt like an appropriate time to start something new, you know, like, yeah, a turning over of a leaf, really. Especially since like turning 30 is the time when you're supposed to like shrivel up and turn into like an old hag and I don't know, maybe start performing hexes on people. I don't know what like the general consensus is. It sounds fun. I'm already doing that. So I'm already way ahead of you guys.

But I think it's just like funny to like step across the threshold of 30 and not like immediately pass away. You seem pretty healthy. You seem you seem happy. I'm feeling really good. Yeah. And I think that's the secret is that and my mother-in-law has told me this because she was like was and is the most fabulous woman. But she was like your 30s are like the best years of your life easily. And then she was like, but actually your 40s are the best year.

But actually your 50s year. Like it only gets better, I think, for women as we get older. I've heard this. Yeah, like I really do. I've heard this. And I feel that. Like, I feel it in my bone. How old are you? I'm 26 now. Oh my God, it's only going to get so much better. You know what? I also feel like I've documented my entire 20s. Yeah. So I've literally been doing this podcast since I was 21. That's so crazy. So I honestly think that 30 is going to be a, not like a liberation, but like a whole new chapter. I don't know to go. Yeah. Yeah. To make this about me. But like I just think it's going to be, you know, I turn 30. It's like a new. a new chapter of life that maybe I don't document and I do just get to live and like so many things that I know it's very transformative just like I'm excited again and maybe it's also my OCD but like having a number where I'm like oh this is when things start or whatever it was like very freeing for me like before I left L.A. I was 28 and I was like I feel really sad that I haven't oil painted in like a really, really long time. Like I hadn't done an oil painting in probably

10 years. And I used to do like semi-competitive oil painting in high school, if that's a thing. Everything can be competitive. Everything can be competitive. If you're a high achiever. Yeah, if you try hard enough. But I used to do these conservation paintings for this thing in Arkansas called the 4-H Center, where it was like a fish and wildlife conservation. And so I used to do these like hyper-realistic oil paintings of endangered species. And sometimes charcoal, sometimes chalk pastel, but I would just like do these. Like I learned how to kind of like replicate nature in a way that was really cool. And I was really competitive. So that was something that I did all throughout high school. And I loved it. It got to the point where I had from the little bit of money that I had been making

from Austin's TV. I had asked my art teacher if I could come to her studio that she would work out of with all these other like cool adult artists. And I basically got a little corner of her studio with my friend Sarah who also wanted to do the same thing. And we would oil paint together like in this like adult studio and it felt so cool like, you know, to come on a Thursday and like oil paint. So anyways, but that was like such a positive memory for me and something where I really got into flow state. And then as I got older and I was living in tinier studio apartments, I was like, I just don't have room for this. And so I. So I was. So I. I would just put it off and put it off and put it off.

And I would do, you know, like, watercolor paintings. I would do anything that was, like, not messy in my apartment. And then when I got to the point where I was living in L.A. and I could, like, buy my own house. I bought a house and still didn't oil paint, even though I had the space for it. And I was like, well, this is, like, stupid. Like, you're just, you've literally created a barrier for yourself. And now you're just not breaking it because you are nervous about being bad.

Like, because it's been so long. It was like I had such a competitive spirit for it when I was younger that the idea of going back to something and being bad at it immediately because I was going to be bad. Oh, yeah. Like that's just how it's going to be. But what a how liberating. Yeah, exactly. To be crap and just get a try. Be bad.

Just try. And so then when I started painting again, I started recording myself painting and kind of told the story of what I just told you, which is that I used to really love doing this. And then I felt really like a lot of shame around being bad at it eventually. And so kind of trying to like re-invigorate my like artistic side of myself. And that also coincided with us realizing that we were going to be very kind of last minute and unexpectedly going to be moving to London. Wait, that was just like a last minute, a quick decision. That was something that was we knew was going to probably happen in like the next couple years. But for like unforeseen personal reasons, it ended up being.

like I had like two and a half months of like, oh, I think we're moving. And then it was like, oh, I'm trying to get my visa now. Like, oh, we're like in process. And I was kind of in denial of it the whole time that it was happening. I don't know. It was just like all these things like that felt very like left behind because even like when I bought my house, I bought basically half a house, which is like so weird to say, but it was like under construction. Oh, really?

Yeah, because that's what I could afford in the area. But my dad's a builder. And so I was like, I'm going to be the person that like can make money off this house because I'm going to flip it. Like I'm going to do it. And then I'm going to live in it. And I'm going to feel. And then everything was like $300,000 like minimum for everything. And I was like, cool. So that's just never going to happen. So we ended up living in kind of like half a house for like the entire time that we were living in LA. That was also praying on me because I was like, oh, this is such a failure. Like I wanted to be able to redo this house and like all these things. And so in the middle of this while I was waiting to get my. visa, I had started oil painting and I started, I went around my neighborhood and I started taking film photos of all of my favorite houses in the neighborhood. And then I set myself up outside and painted my view from my window so that I could see like what my neighborhood looked like when I lived there. And then also did like personal portraits of all of the houses around me.

And it became like the way that I kind of like exercised that feeling of being sad about leaving and also memorialize them and then also like could kind of tap back into my artistry in a way that felt really like therapeutic. So beautiful. Yeah, it was really nice. But then also I felt really good because somehow I managed to do all of that and film it, which is not normally like that's the other thing about doing art and filming it. And you probably know this.

Like it's it feels like you take a bit of the soul out of it if you have to film it. Yeah. Sometimes. Yeah. But I think because I was so comfortable. like filming myself that I could kind of like get past that and just be like this is another example of being able to hopefully help other people feel like if you haven't done this artistic pursuit whatever that may be for a really long time it's like never too late to come back to

it and be bad and so I think that's what like the first video that did like well about my art on YouTube was it was called like it was something like it's okay to be bad honestly a very profound statement that you realize the older you get of just like being bad is I feel like we've talked a lot about control and then a lot about freedom in this episode yeah totally and this is what I'm hearing I'm hearing you'd be like wait like this journey towards just letting yourself be bad at things letting yourself explore old hobbies in a way that doesn't sound as like restrictive anymore as it probably was at times yeah I think that's true ooh we're finding we're finding themes here we're really finding some good themes I love a psycho I have a little theme to like digging

into. I have one final question for you. This is a question that we, I was going to ask you about moving to London. Actually, let me ask you about it. Okay. Everybody else can tune out. This is a me question because I have just moved to London and how do you enjoy it? Because I'm really struggling with it. And I'm sure a lot of people have moved to cities and been like, I have this whole romantic idea of what this was going to be and it's not that. So somebody who's just moved to London, I, e. me or somebody listening. Yeah. What's like some advice that you would have? What would you say is what are you struggling with? Do you feel like the social situation is a thing? I've gotten so lucky. I've made so many friends really quickly. It's actually funny. I like went out and was like,

I'm a very practical person and I had been here for a month or two and I was like, great. So I need to make some friends. So I booked like seven like friendship making activities in one weekend and just made all my friends on one weekend. And now I'm like, good. to go. So, and obviously, but I think it's just like realizing this isn't what I thought it was going to be and like making peace with that. Yeah. What did you think it was going to be? I think I love how, oh, to the tables. I'll, oh, no, I think that I thought it was going to be a lot more like exciting and go, go, go and like, easy. And I, you know what I think I thought, I didn't think the city was this big. Right. I thought that things were going to be closer. And maybe that's what it is where I was like, oh, there's going to be so many opportunities to do things. It's like, there are. But it takes you two hours.

you actually can't do it all because of a commute. Yeah, yeah, you're not wrong. Is that not how Sydney is? Oh, no, no, no. Well, also, I, like, would never go over the bridge. So, like, there's two sides of Sydney. It was, like, three, technically. But I don't know.

Like, I lived where, like, in the heart of it. Yeah. No, it's not how Sydney is like at all. But you know what's funny is even you saying, like, I don't go over the bridge in Sydney. That is the knowledge that you will have of London. Really? Yeah, in, like, three or four months.

You'll be like, oh, I don't go to. I don't go there because I don't like my connections there. Like, you know what I mean? Like, you will have moments where you go, you'll know the city. It just takes, you know, it's like you have to carve your little mark in the city by experiencing it until you get to the point where you understand the grooves and you can like figure out where you're going. Oh, I love that. Yeah. That's a really beautiful analogy.

Well, it's like, you know, your pathways where you end up like going the most is kind of where my like river runs. Yeah, totally. Yeah. But I found it okay. I think, like, in a similar way to you, I found my friends really quickly because my husband was the entire reason I came to London. Like, we were long distance for years and years and years. And we started dating when I was 19, I want to say, and he was 20, 21. A little older than me.

What can I say? Love an old woman. But because he is from London, I basically kind of got to plug into his whole friend group. And what's really cool about my husband is that he is like, I mean this in like the most positive way. He's like, Mr. Alley. We're like, yeah, like our entire friend group is queer people. So that was really cool. So like, I don't know, coming from Litter Rock, Arkansas where I was like so sheltered to then be living in Los Angeles where like my mind was expanding a little bit.

And then moving to London and being like in the epicenter of like just cool people was just such a different. I don't know. I think I really liked moving here because it was I was just absorbing. so much. Yeah. This is what I need to do. I need to get out there. I definitely found great people, but I think I need to like focus on experiencing the city for what it has to offer. Yeah. Totally. And that being like it's a big horizon expander. Yeah. And I also think that people are very locked in on their boroughs. Like I have noticed this. Like big time. Like I'm like, I'm a big like, like, I used to live in southwest London, which was great, but it's like the sleepiest

place in the entire world. Where is that? What's, give me a suburb? It's like near Hammersmith. Like Notting Hill would be like Southwest. Like you know what I mean? Like that kind of like area like a lot of my friends. I'm getting my geography well. Yeah. Yeah. West.

West in general. I feel like it's just like very sleepy now. But like no hate to West. Westies. Yeah. But then like I hadn't really explored a lot of the other boroughs. And then I yeah, have just been spending a lot more time kind of like east and north and a little bit of time in south. Kind of like expanding my horizons.

But here's the thing. Like you just got here. I just started doing that. And I've been coming back and forth here for like 10 years. So what excuse do I have? I don't know. I need to get in on it. Yeah.

This is like the wiser. You were the wiser version of me. I don't know about that. But no, but like I need to, I need to take a big abide of London, I think. Yeah. Well, we can do that together. We'll get dinner in the east. Yes.

Yeah. I'm always trying to like pull people in different directions. Like all my friends, I'm in the east, by the way. And I'm like, yeah. And I'm like, what have I done? Because I live in like the northwest. Yeah, yeah. love where I live.

But all my neighbors are either very old or very famous. Right. And we are neither of those things. So it's like I think they're sometimes confused as to why we are there. Totally. I don't think I've met anybody who lives in my neighborhood who's under the age of 35. Right, right, right, right, right. Or under like the income level of 35 million.

Right, right, right, right. And I feel like we just kind of messed up. But also we have like this really apartment that is technically not live. Like, I don't really think you're meant to live there. I love that about London. And sometimes it's just like, yeah, we just live in this like rat hole. Yeah. Like, yeah, we live in a bucket.

And like, it's 3,000 pounds. But like, they let us. I remember Al Landl when we moved in. I was like, so what happens if there's a fire? He's like, well, there should be a ladder on the roof. There should be a ladder on the roof. I can't, but we don't know where that is. Like, where is it?

Awesome. Yeah. Anyway. Yes. Awesome. No, that's like such a thing. But, but no, you'll have to come hang out with me over on my side of town. Done.

elsewhere and see maybe someone under the age of 30. I don't think they exist here. Do they not? I don't know. Unfortunately, I'm not going to hold up that statistic, but I'll find someone who can. I feel like 30 is the new 25. Hey, thanks, babe. I've been saying that to my friends.

Thanks. Pride is like love. You feel it in your heart. IR. Radio. Canada's number one streaming app for radio and podcasts, including IHart Pride Canada, your favorite hits and must have party bangers, plus personalized and curated Playlists like back in the day pride. Come together, celebrate love.

Take pride with you. Anytime, anywhere. Just ask your smart speaker to play IHart Pride Canada. Stream us on your phone or listen now at iHeartRadio.ca. In the moment, it felt like it was going on forever. I didn't think I was going to live. I was terrified. There was no anything inside those eyes.

They turned black. It scared the hell out of it. me. That was your first murder case? Yes, sir. Fair to say this was the biggest case of your career? Yes, sir. Rape and murder for a child.

Just as bad as it gets. I would think so. Evil, wake up. I'm the one that saw the murder take place by Crevent and DePippo. Anthony DePippo showed no signs of remorse, appearing unfazed after being sentenced to the maximum. I said, I'm not guilty. I'll take it to the grave.

Listen to the devil's quarry on the Iheart radio app. Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. And to hear the devil's quarry ad free with exclusive content, subscribe to Love for Good Plus on Apple Podcasts. Hey, I'm Hoda Kotby, host of the podcast, Joy 101 with Hoda Kotby. Together, we're going to have meaningful conversations with the world's most fascinating people, like when actress Olivia Munn shared how she overcame fierce health challenges. I've gone through breast cancer and then helped my mother through breast cancer,

and that was more difficult. There's a lot of people who understand postpartner depression. I was not prepared for postpartum anxiety. Listen to Joy 101 with Hoda Kotby on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. It is part of it's a excitement because their new star is Javier T. Tarito Hernandez. Everyone sees me as a football player, but before anything else, I'm human. Every single day I'm still learning how to live with problems, mistakes, relationships, emotions. ever since I was born.

And I still have so many questions. Where do we come from? What happens after death? How do you deal with cancellation? Cristiano or Messi? Do aliens exist? What is love? Real Madrid or Varsa?

From every day and ordinary to the deep and extraordinary. This isn't a normal podcast. Everything here is spontaneous, real and genuine. This podcast is like a deep talk with your closest friends. Where vulnerability comes out. Conspiracy theories end up on the table and goals and lessons are shared. This life has an order perfect and all is just. Wait me, I'm going to pressur me, but me will go to be going to connect.

The Chicharito. Oh, Javier, Chicharito-Landes, and together with Aihar Radio, we're going to make the ordinary, extraordinary. Stay close. It's a carac. Wow. Listen to learning to be human on IHard Radio, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Keith Gianmanca seemed like a mild-mannered suburban dad, but secretly, he became someone else, a master of disguise who went on a crime spree.

At the time, did it seem like a crazy idea? It seemed very crazy. But I felt so desperate that I felt it was the quickest, easiest way out. Did you allow yourself to think about how it could go wrong and what that might look like? No, I didn't want to manifest that. I was trying to manifest success. Every family has its secrets. But what happens when you discover that your dad has been living a double life?

That is not the look of an innocent man. This is going to change my life and my family dynamic forever, because everything that had existed prior in my reality is now untrue. Listen to Deep Cover the Family Man on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Final question we also have every single guest. on the podcast, which is what is the biggest lesson that you have learned in your 20s? Ooh, I think, you know what?

Again, I think it comes back to everything we've been talking about. But I think the biggest lesson I learned was that people aren't really looking at me like that. You know what I mean? Everyone's like so obsessed with themselves. And I think like I was so worried all the time, like, as someone who was like bullied in high school that I was like going to be always kind of watching my back. or like always saying the wrong thing or always being kind of awkward. And then I realized like actually no one, literally no one cares. And that was very freeing in so many ways.

Like I think I had a lot of like guilt and like negative feelings around just like being a person in being perceived. Not even like a social media perception, but just like interpersonal perception. I think I actually cared less about what people thought about me online than people think about me in person. But I think I've just completely like ex-nade that. God, I wish you could bottle that feeling and pass it out. I want to so badly. Yeah. Like I think about that sometimes for like people in their early 20s because I'm like,

oh, girl. Yeah. I feel so bad for you. Like women in their young, like early 20s, like I don't think I would ever go back to being 21. You could not pay me. No, unless I had my brain now and I could be like, none of this shit matters. Yes.

I'd be fine. I think about that with dating. the time. I'm like, brick, I wish I could be dating as like a 20 year old. Obviously, I love who I'm with. Sorry. Yeah. My beautiful boyfriend. Yes. Love of my life. But like, sometimes I'm like, I wish that I had the brain that I have now and could have dated back then and actually had fun because I've never had fun dating until I met my boyfriend. Totally. I totally know what you mean. I feel the same way. It's kind of that whole thing about like, um, what's this Sylvia Plath fig tree. We literally just did an episode on that the other day. Yeah. It's similar where it's,

you know, a little less depressing when you're talking about dating. But like, it would just, yeah, I agree. Just being able to enjoy stuff because you know, like, it doesn't matter. But you know what, that's also hindsight. Like, you know. Exactly. I can still be nervous and, like, anxious about things now. It doesn't mean that, like, in five years I'm not going to be like, I wish I just didn't care when I was 30. Yeah.

I probably will still say that, you know? It brings back to that thing you said before of, like, getting older is, like, such a privilege. And I look at, like, my mom, for example, and, like, my aunts. And I always think it's so important to have friends who are a few years older than you as well. Yeah. And I also a few decades older than you because it just seems like it gets better and better. better. It looks so much fun. Yeah. Crazy what perspective can do. Like when you meet someone who's like still rocking it and looking so cool and like doing like the best kind of life and they're like 20

years older than you. I'm looking for some gray hair. I know. I'm going to do full gray if it happens. I'm down to clown. Yeah. I'm so down to clown. I know like, do you remember that show is called there was a there was a woman named Stacey London who was like a stylist on the TLC. It was like a thing in America, but she, you need to look her up later. She had this show. It was called What Not to Wear. And it was not great. It didn't age well. It was a lot of things being flattering or unflattering or frumpy or not frumpy, like not great body discussions happening. But she had the most fabulous streak of gray in her hair from when she was like at like our age into her 40s. And she still like maintains it. And she looks so cool. Yeah. This is going to be the new trend.

I think gray hair is going to be where it's at. Yeah. Because it's a sign of like being, it's a sign of total self-acceptance and like push back against like the aging propaganda. 100%. Yeah. I think that's also like being able to move your face is the same thing. You know? Yeah.

Well, thank you so much for coming on the podcast. I hope you had a great time. I did. Thank you for having me. I really enjoyed this chat. Yeah. Let me know if you ever want me back. Yeah, I know.

Well, maybe people are going to be like. And hopefully they think we have a good vibe. Yeah. Where can people find you? And what is something you're really excited about going on in your career in your life right now? You want people to know about. Yeah. Well, I'm on all my socials as per yuge.

I also just released a collection with Lisa Says Gar, which you are wearing if you're watching on Netflix. Literally you walked in and I was like, that's that shot is phenomenal. Yeah. And you painted that. Yeah. This is my painting. I think the saturation's been bumped up a little bit. But yeah, I did a trip deck of blossoms in a field, kind of like all-a Monet.

It was my Monet copy, not nearly as good. Unfortunately, he's kind of a master. So that's kind of my attempt of it. But it made a fabulous shirt. It does. It actually does. Okay, I'm going to get people to check that out. They can find join on socials.

Yeah. As always, guys, thank you so much for listening. You can also find the psychology of your 20s on socials in the episode description down below. If you want to follow us on substack, Instagram, all those things. I feel like every single episode, I think. I give you a longer list, but it's all down below. And of course, you can also find Arden and see more of what she's up to by following the links in the description. But until next time, be safe, be kind, be gentle to yourself.

We will talk very, very soon. There was no anything inside those eyes. They turned black. It scared the hell out of me. Evil, wake up. I'm the one that saw the murder take place by Crevecette and de Pitpo. Anthony DePippo showed no signs of remorse, appearing unfazed after being sentenced to the maximum. I said, I'm not guilty. I'll take it to the grief.

Listen to the devil's quarry in the Bone Valley Feed on the IHeart Radio app. Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Joy is essential, and it's also elusive. But now, there's a new and exciting way to start your journey toward a more joyful existence. Joy 101. It's a new podcast hosted by me, Hoda Kotby. If you're craving inspiration to maximize your joy, tune into these candid, uplifting, and moving on-air chats.

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This isn't a normal podcast. Everything here is spontaneous, real, and genuine. Just honest conversations about what it means to be alive. I'm Javier Tchariot-O-R-Nandes, and listen to Learning to Be Human on I-Hard Radio, Apple Podcasts, or whatever you get your podcast. Every family has its secrets. But what happens when you discover that your dad

has been living a double life? That is not the look of an innocent man. Is everyone lying to me about who they are? I felt such desperation. I felt it was what I had to do. Listen to Deep Cover the Family Man on the IHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. For years, the unhoused have been presented as a monolith in mainstream media. Weedian House is a podcast that's changing the narrative. I'm Theo Henderson, and I created the show why I was unhoused on the streets of Los Angeles.

We've grown into a two-time Webby Award-winning podcast, the only podcast that shares unhoused stories and news from the unhoused perspective. Listen to Wey &House on the IHard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. This is an IHart podcast, guaranteed human.