The Psychology of your 20s - 427. What to do when a 9-5 doesn't fulfil you?

Episode Date: June 11, 2026

Most of us will spend the majority of our adult lives working. So why does the traditional 9–5 leave so many people feeling exhausted, trapped, unfulfilled, or quietly wondering: is this really it? In this episode, we explore the psychology behind why the 9–5 can feel so unnatural for some people, why work often becomes the centre of our identity, and what to do when the life you've been told should make you happy simply doesn't. This includes: Why the 9–5 often feels so draining The psychology of role engulfment and losing yourself to work The personality traits that predict whether you'll enjoy traditional employment The importance of hobbies, purpose, novelty, and community When it's time to consider a different path Practical advice for anyone dreaming of working for themselves Happy listening! Watch on Netflix: HERE Follow Jemma on Instagram: @jemmasbeg Follow the podcast on Instagram: @thatpsychologypodcast Subscribe on Substack: @thepsychologyofyour20s For business: [e-mail]  The Psychology of your 20s is not a substitute for professional mental health help. If you are struggling, distressed or require personalised advice, please reach out to your doctor or a licensed psychologist.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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of Formation in Health Supposed by Santee Canada. There was no anything inside those eyes. They turned black. It scared the hell out of me. Evil, wake up. I'm the woman that saw the murder

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and listen to learning to be human. on IHard Radio, Apple Podcasts, or whatever you get your podcast. Your husband is not who you think he is. Your body is not what you thought it was. Your identity is formed by a secret history. I'm Danny Shapiro. And these are just a few of the stunning stories I'll be exploring on the 14th season of Family Secrets.

He kind of shoved me out of the way and said, move. And he went out the front door and he jumped in a car and drove off. And that was the last time I saw him. Listen to Season 14 of Family Secrets. secrets on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hello everybody. I'm Jemma Spake and welcome back to the psychology of your 20s, the podcast where we talk through the biggest changes, moments and transitions of our 20s and what they mean for our psychology. Hello everybody. Welcome back to the show. Welcome back to the podcast.

It is so great to have you here back for another episode. Today, let's talk. about an exceedingly common anxiety and maybe unhappiness for many of us in our 20s, for many ages actually, let's be honest. And that is the depressing state of the nine to five life and our increasing disillusionment with this way of living. For so many of us who go to college or who just have like professional ambitions of any kind, it kind of feels like the nine to five is our professional destiny. There's no avoiding it. It's hard to as we try. And for all of its downsides, like it does offer structure. It offers the structure and the kind of work that most of us are told we should want and that would reward us. If you study hard,

you get the degree, you get the job, you work your way up, you buy your apartment, you buy your house, like that's going to be a happy life. That's the blueprint. And if you don't love it, if you feel trapped by it, exhausted by it, very resentful of it, there's this assumption that maybe you're just lazy or you're ungrateful or you are expecting too much from your work life and it's unreasonable. But I actually don't think that's true. I think a lot of us are asking a very fair question, which is, why does a lifestyle we spend the majority of our adult years in so often feel deeply misaligned with how we naturally want to live? Do I just have to get used to this? Or is it actually that wrong to want more? Here's the thing.

I don't think the issue is always the job. It is the structure that it demands from us and the fact that for a lot of people, it will never be fulfilling. Just the very nature of that work is not fulfilling. So what's next? That's what we're going to discuss today. The three reasons why the nine to five may feel so unnatural for you personally. The personality factors that influence your tolerance or indeed your enjoyment of this lifestyle, how to love your life outside of your job using some very important psychological hacks. And I guess when it's time to risk it and try something beyond the traditional 9 to 5 work lifestyle and your plan, your exact plan for doing so from somebody, i.e. myself, who has done it. So stay with us. Why is it that our 9 to 5 can feel so

unnatural and foreboding at times? Basically, why does it feel like such a scam that we spend our entire lives in service of somebody else with a weekend and maybe four weeks vacation, if you're lucky, I know that's a very dramatic take to call the 9 to 5 life a scam, but I know it's a take that a lot of you have, and I think that's for a few reasons. Number one, it is never just a 9 to 5. It's an 8 to 6 if you include getting ready, and you'll commute. It's an 8 to 7 or 8 to 8 if you include overtime, maybe even longer. And then it's the fact that you're expected to be switched on and functioning for all those hours,

when we know that humans can only do focused intensive work for probably three to four hours max per day. And so that leaves us with very, very little energy to want or even to desire to do anything else when we get home other than each hour maybe watch a TV show. Because of the fact our 9 to 5 takes up the majority of our waking productive hours, it is very difficult to establish a personality beyond work because our motivation, our energy is depleted by the monotony of routine, meaning that friendships, hobbies, personal goals, like, those are the things that get deprioritized. This also has a secondary effect that I don't see many people talk about, which is that as our lives become more centralized around work, so does our mood, so does our emotional state.

In psychology, this has a name. It's called identity fusion or role engulfment. It's a process wherein we lose ourselves to the roles we play as that role dominates over all other facets. at our sense of being. So basically, our 9 to 5, if we're not careful, it doesn't just steal our hours, it steals our identity. Now, what happens if your 9 to 5 then becomes really toxic? What if you stop enjoying work? Because that's fine if you're having a good time at work, but what if your boss or your co-worker becomes unpleasant? What if deadlines pile up? There's no escaping from that when work is all you have. And when you have nothing else beyond that if you have experienced role engulfment, you know, your interest, your purpose, your

fulfillment becomes the job and you become, you become the job essentially. You know what also influences this? Definitely we get burnt out when we have too much to do. We also struggle when we don't have enough to do. There was a 2021 study that found that workplace and life satisfaction is equally influenced by being underworked as it is by being overworked. It's so hard to find, like just that sweet spot with a nine to five where you're like equally challenged whilst also not feeling like entirely dominated by work. The routine and I think just the system in itself is not designed to work in parallel to a fulfilling life because of that reason and because of many reasons, including reason number three, why your nine to five at time feels so unnatural. And that is

that the 9 to 5 was designed for when people had a domestic partner to take care of all the other little things that life requires from us. The first 9 to 5, like 40-hour work week was introduced in like the 1920s, I think 1926, almost 100 years ago when almost 90% of men who were working age were married by the age of 40. Women traditionally did not work once they got married. They were only, I think they only made up a quarter of the workplace, meaning a 9 to 5 model at that time operated on the idea that most people, men, you know, had someone who could do the groceries, could maintain their home, could take care of the kids, could organize their lives. So you're basically at this point doing the job of two people and then you're expected to have a personality on top of

it. An article I read from MIT actually found through historical records that pre-industrial workers actually had shorter days and work weeks than we do today. Back in those days, many people only worked like 150 to 180 days per year, according to UK historical data. They basically got a six-month holiday due to the agricultural seasons, due to church holidays, due to how wages and hours were structured. I think it's a common misconception that these days, like, we must have the most progressive working conditions and wages and hours of all time and that the 9 to 5 is basically just normal and natural because, of course, it is.

That's how it's always been. Research shows that it's not the most normal and natural, and it's not the way it's always been. I think the final reason our 9 to 5 can feel so stifling is because it's hard not to think eventually, like, is this all there is? Especially in our 20s. There is definitely a level of like existential fatalism

that there's no escaping this system. Like at some stage, we start projecting forward and forward and realizing, hey, wait, I have maybe like 70 to 80 good years here. I'm 22, 25, 29 now. I retire at 65. I have 30 to 40 years of this left and then I get 10 years to like enjoy this and that's all. That doesn't sound fair nor does it sound like, you know, the dreams that you have as a child. Don't get me wrong.

Like there are huge benefits to working a 9 to 5. I loved my 9 to 5 for many reasons. Number one being financial stability. Number two being just life stability and the structure and the predictability and number three being community and the people around you. And also the fact that like unlike working for yourself, when you leave the workplace, like when you go home for the day, for the most part, like you can switch off, right? Like you're allowed to leave because it's not like it's not your business on the line. There's definitely perks, right? I'm not trying to villainize the nine to five. But I do believe rather strongly actually that not everyone is meant to work a nine to five.

Just like not everyone is meant to be a doctor or an actor or a priest. and not everyone is meant to work for themselves either. There are certain personalities that when it comes to this 9 to 5 lifestyle, they will never find fulfillment. There's no getting used to it, regardless of the job, the workplace, the boss, the pay, all the other factors. It is the structure that they have a problem with. One theory of why this is comes from Jungian psychology and the Jungian personality types.

So if you aren't familiar with Carl Jung's theories, he is essentially one of these. grandfathers of modern psychology and he believed that there are eight personality types and 12 archetypes that each person can essentially fall into. This has now been expanded like in the last 100 years to the 16 personality types, also known as your Myers-Brigg personality type indicator. That is based on Jung's work. I have to say there's been debate recently around the legitimacy of this categorization. We have a full episode on this. I think it's like our personality. test legit, you can go and listen to it. But if you do follow the theory, according to the 16 personality types, only four out of the 16 do well in a structured work environment. That is 25%,

25% of people only who have the attitude, temperament and personality to thrive and enjoy this type of work. These are the, I think the logic, the defender, the executive and the console. basically they're like the sentinel personality types and these are the people who are practical they're highly organized they like tradition they like structured environments they're very self-motivated they do well in a nine to five the people who according to the Myers-Briggs research don't do well in a nine to five or don't find that it suits them are the analysts and the explorer types also known as our entrepreneurs entertainers debaters architect adventurers these aren't job titles, by the way, the names that they give to like the specific configuration of

personality traits. And these groups represent those of us who are very independent, but also very spontaneous, very creative, very motivated. We can solve problems. We can work diligently. That's not the problem. We struggle to do that though when we're being instructed to do so, when we don't see the purpose behind why we've been asked to do it, when we don't care about what we're doing when the schedule that we have to do something by is set by somebody else. Signs that this may be you is that it's not the job that's annoying you. It's the structure around the job. You may love the industry you're in. You may love what you do. You just wish you could do it more independently or for yourself or you wish you could set your own hours. You wish you had

more of a say over how it affected you in your life. This, my friends, is why I, you know, you may have a secure job, you may be really grateful for the paycheck, but still completely disillusioned by the entire idea of working in 9 to 5 for the rest of your life. Because because of the way it sits in contrast to how you see yourself and your future, what is the solution to that? Because it's probably not, just quit your job. That's too simplistic. It's like when people hear about your relationship problems and are like, just dump him. Like, yeah, get it over with, dump him. Like, that's not how it works, it's not how life works. At this stage, you have two options. You either have to find a way to tolerate the nine to five by making your life around it, bigger and grander, or you have to

find an alternative to the nine to five that sits better with your desires and personality and make the transition to it. We're going to explore both of these alternatives after this short break. Stay with us. You have the desire to help to make a real difference? The College of the City you offer the program Dependance and Scenti Mental.

Acquare the competences essential for accompany and support the people confronted to to the difficulties of health and and dependents. Construise a career

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That was your first murder case? Yes, sir. Fear to say this was the biggest case of your career? Yes, sir. Rape a murder for a child. Just as bad as it gets. I would think so. People wake up.

and saw the murder take place by Creveit and DePippo. Anthony DePippo showed no signs of remorse, appearing unfazed after being sentenced to the maximum. I said, I'm not guilty. I'll take it to the grief. Listen to the devil's quarry on the Iheart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. And to hear the Devil's Quarry ad free with exclusive content, subscribe to Love for Good Plus on Apple Podcasts.

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One love. Wow. I literally filmed in his apartment in Queensbridge. His moms were still up in that apartment. Nas was just beginning to take off. His pops used to live near me in Harlem. His dad introduced him to a whole lot of, you know,

conscious stuff and he made a young prodigy. No matter the era, Drink Chams brings you the biggest names and the most unfiltered conversations. Listen to Drink Chams from the Black Effect podcast network on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Okay, if the idea of the 9 to 5 is leaving you feeling entirely empty, as I said, you have two options. Decentre your 9 to 5 or find an alternative. We're going to start with number one.

Even if you aren't made for the 9 to 5 lifestyle and you identify with one of those personality types we just spoke about, it may just be unavoidable based on what you've chosen to do, maybe even what you love to do. It may also be unavoidable just based on the time you're at in your life. I think for a lot of people in their 20s, the 9 to 5 may not be forever, but it is for right now in order to establish your career. To avoid feeling crushed by it, we have to work on strengthening our out-of-work personality, interests, and life

to be seismically bigger and more impressive than our workplace, personality, interests, and life. this is what we're going to do. Number one, we need to delineate between the two different sides of our life, almost physically. And we can do that by creating any kind of ritual that signals to our brain that we are switching from one part of our life to the other at the beginning and end of the workday. Some examples of that are always having a shower as soon as you finish work, especially if you work from home, always changing your clothes before you leave work, always going for a walk after you finish the day, shutting your laptop, zipping it away, leaving it at work if you can, if you work from home, putting it in a specific location, listening to the same song, same album, anything like that,

you just need to signal to your brain, okay, like we are done with that for the day, we are switching to this other area of our life, our personal life. And they sound really small and simple, but psychologically having that kind of kind of physical boundary is important because the brain relies heavily on contextual cues to mode and identity switch. Essentially, without a clear transition, your nervous system struggles to distinguish between work mode and personal life mode, especially when so many of us work from home or we just have to be digitally connected after hours. There's been this research into role transition theory, especially around people who work in high pressure environments,

like emergency rooms, prisons, policing, and it shows that having this kind of cue helps reduce emotional spillover because they have that cognitive separation between their professional identity and their personal identity. You have to be consistent with it though. It's not going to register if you don't make it a routine, but that is like one of the first easiest ways to separate work from home. Number two, be careful of role in meshment by making sure that you have things you genuinely care about and are working towards outside of work. Think our 20s are when we are most at risk of our professional identity, becoming our only identity, because we're kind of like fresh to this new environment.

We haven't really learnt like the balancing act that people older than us have. And I honestly think, well, I can say that like the beginning of 9 to 5 life, it's very romantic. It's really fun. It's kind of like being in the start of from uni again. like you're friends with everybody, you're working hard, there's free snacks, like, it's very easy to be like, this is great, this is so fun, this is so romantic. We don't want to leave it until it's too late, though. The biggest antidote to role in meshment is hobbies.

If you don't have something that you can genuinely say like you're passionate about and enjoy doing beyond your job or beyond what needs to be done to survive, your likelihood of burnout out is dramatically higher. We've all heard the statistic that you need five hobbies, one to stay fit, one to build knowledge, one to spark creativity, one to keep you sane and want to make you money. Just choose two of those categories to begin with. And if you're struggling with what you'd actually enjoy, like, or if you find that like typical hobbies are like a bit boring to you, I think the central route to finding what you would personally find interesting is going back to what you loved as a child when you're, you just had the most purest kind of curiosity, desire and interest.

Also, don't be afraid to, like, abandon a hobby and be in, like, a hobby dating stage. I love running. I love spending, like, three hours on a Sunday jogging around London or wherever I am. But I know for a lot of people, like, that sounds awful. That sounds like there's nothing worse. The point is to enjoy it. And if you're not, make a list of, like, 25 different things you want to try and go at it. Make it a priority once a week. you're going to try, you're going to date each of these hobbies until you find a match. Basically, what this is doing is outsourcing your identity a little bit more, outsourcing your passion to something beyond work.

In a similar vein, have specific things that you do each night of the week, or at least some nights of the week. In particular, I would say like two to three days per week, you should have something on where you're not just going home and you're going and doing things. similar to the rule of five hobbies, I like the idea of the rule of three evenings. Every week you need one evening to do something with yourself, one evening to do something with your friends, one evening to do something for your development. This is about injecting novelty back into the monotony of the nine to five routine by forcing yourself to fill your calendar deliberately with other things.

One more rule, big rule episode, but another one that helps bring novel back into the boringness of full-time work is the rule of 2-2-2. This is, funnily enough, a tip I actually stole from relationship maintenance research. It says every two weeks, you've got to go out for a novel fun evening. Every two months, you have to go away for a weekend. Every two years, you have to go away for two weeks. Two weeks a month, something like that. Can't remember.

The brilliance of this, yes, obviously it comes from relationship therapy, but the brilliance of this is that you have something to look forward to. Part of the pessimism around the 9 to 5 is that when we imagine the future, it looks awfully like the present and awfully a lot like the near past. And that loss of expectation and anticipation also means a loss of curiosity and optimism. I know it can feel like, God, I have to have all these rules. It's an upward battle to like have a life that I actually enjoy. But it does work. And I think having the 9 to 5 not be the only present structure in your life is how you bring back meaning to your life because it is not the only priority. It is not the dominant force. Finally, before we get into the, should I just quit

advice, you need to genuinely assess whether you have a vision for yourself and why you're doing this job. One of the hardest parts of the 9 to 5 routine isn't always the work itself, as we've been saying. It's the feeling that your life is happening in service of something meaningless. Psychologists call this goal incongruence. It's when your daily actions, identity, purpose, whatever, it's in a state of disharmony with what you actually feel you want to do or deserve to do. Your brain, when it has that goal in congruence, is far less able to tolerate stress, boredom, repetition, delayed gratification.

There was a 2018 study published in the journal, frontiers of psychology and they found that people whose jobs gave them A, a broader purpose in that they felt they were doing some kind of greater good or there was a greater good they were striving for or B gave them self-realization, basically a sense of autonomy, authenticity, self-expression. They felt better not just about their work-life balance, but about their lives. Does your job provide either of those two things, a broader purpose or a sense of self-fulfillment or self-realization? You have to seriously ask yourself, like, why am I doing this job and is it a satisfying reason?

Is it because of stability? Is it because of opportunities? Is it because of what it allows you to do for others? Is it because it's impressive? Is it because it was just the first job you applied for and you happened to get it? Is it because everybody else at your uni was going into this discipline? You may as well follow them. Why?

Why are you doing this? And if that reason isn't enough, once again, no lifestyle change is going to fix that. because doing something you feel has no meaning for 40 hours a week is not easily reversible. So this is when we arrive at the maybe I need to just get out of here point of this conversation. And by here I mean not just the job, but like the 9 to 5 lifestyle. First thing to consider, before you jump the gun, is there a way that you can do the parts of your job that you love in a different format before you quit? So like freelance, shift work. Is there a way that you can hone in on the one part of the job that you like and do that in a

specialized way? I think jumping onto parallel tracks before diverting the path is obviously a possibility. Secondly, is there just any way of doing this job in a way that is satisfying? What would you risk by trying out that path before you risked the entire structure? I think it does eventually come down to a cost-benefit analysis of, you know, if I've, again, 70 good years on the earth and I have one life and I'm in my 20s and I have more freedom than I ever will and if I'm being honest with myself, I'm not very happy like would I continue, should I continue to choose this? Not should I keep doing this. Would I choose this for myself every

day from now? What are the pro cons of that? I think it will feel very scary to to walk away from something stable. But this is something we often miss when we sit down and do a pro cons list of like, do I stay or do I go? Do I change? Do I stay the same? We underestimate. We don't properly assign the frustration and hopelessness of the years ahead of us and the cumulative load of that satisfaction. We often just account for our unhappiness right now. We think it's going to pass. And it doesn't. It just turns into apathy and resentment. We underestimate that and we overestimate the difficulty, specifically the emotional difficulty of this leap of faith. There is this amazing psychological model called the Roller Coaster of Change.

It was developed by Elizabeth Huberl Ross. She's a Swiss psychiatrist. And it talks about how we're going to feel our worst about a decision the moment that we make it. As we realize, you know, we need to let go. There's nothing left for me here. We're disorientated. We're angry. That's when we're going to feel really bad.

we say, oh my God, I realize I need to change is when we're going to feel the most intensely. But it's also when you get to work. And as soon as you're at that low point, she assumes, she says things do improve as you move through these other stages of exploration, purpose, problem solving. All of these activities of rediscovery will alone re-engage a part of your brain that you previously probably weren't using very much. So you will begin to feel a sense of meaning and purpose coming back into your life, even if it is scary, because you have something that you meaningfully feel you are working towards, even if the outcome is unknown. If your next question is, okay, what do I do instead? I actually don't know what I want to do. This is a very simple

exercise that may be able to reveal that for you. It consists of, I think it's like four or five questions. The first, what task do I naturally find myself engaged in without even trying? Basically, where does my flow state come from? What do I enjoy? Secondly, what do people naturally come to me for help with? What does that kind of reveal about what you are naturally good at? How important is money to you and how important is purpose? If you're being very honest, would you be willing to sacrifice one for the other? In 10 years' time, how do you picture your ideal workday?

When are you getting up? Where are you working? Are you in an office? Are you surrounded by people? Are you outdoors? Are you doing deep work, busy work, creative work, physical work? What does it look like? How do you feel?

And in 50 years' time, what will you be most proud to say that you have done that you haven't yet accomplished? What do you keep coming back to here? I had a professor say to me once, your purpose isn't that hard to find. It is the thing you think about every day, but talk yourself out of every night. if you think it's your calling I don't think it ever stops calling but you get very good at ignoring it

if you don't pick up after the first few rings I think deep down you know you know what you want to do now it's worth examining like why am I afraid really stop and think for a second like what is that deep fear keeping you in this unhappy place is it that you'll never be enough

is it that you'll fail that people will be mad at you embarrassed for you that they'll see you trying and that will be whatever cringe. I think it comes down to two separate problems. The first is a practicality problem. The second is an ego problem. And they're different and they need to be addressed in different ways. We're going to talk about how after this final short break. Pride Month Toronto. Pride is an opportunity for you to create your own space to celebrate your existence. IHartRadio is proud to be an official sponsor of Pride Toronto.

festival and we won't stop celebrate pride turn up the love and listen to iHeart pride Canada your 24-7 radio stream and the only playlist you need for your Toronto Pride celebrations pride is so great because it gives a whole bunch of people this visibility that they've never had before we have a ton to celebrate Toronto happy pride Iheart radio in the moment it felt like it was going on forever I didn't think I was going to live I was terrified There was no anything inside those eyes.

They turned black. It scared the hell out of me. That was your first murder case? Yes, sir. Fear to say this was the biggest case of your career? Yes, sir. Rape a murder for a child. Just as bad as it gets.

I would think so. People wake up. I'm the one that saw the murder take place by Crevette and DePippo. Anthony DePippo showed no signs of remorse, appearing unfazed after being sentenced to the maximum. I said I'm not guilty. I'll take it to the grief. Listen to the devil's quarry on the Iheart radio app,

Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. And to hear the Devil's Quarry ad free with exclusive content, subscribe to Love for Good Plus on Apple Podcasts. Hey, I'm Hoda Kotby, host of the podcast, Joy 101 with Hoda Kotby. Together, we're going to have meaningful conversations with the world. most fascinating people. Like when actress Olivia Munn shared how she overcame fierce health challenges. I've gone through breast cancer and then helped my mother through breast cancer,

and that was more difficult. There's a lot of people who understand postpartner depression. I was not prepared for postpartum anxiety. Listen to Joy 101 with Hoda Kotby on the IHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. And it's an ton of exciting because their new star is Javier Tichorino Hernandez. Everyone sees me as a football player, but before anything else, I'm human. Every single day, I'm still learning how to live with problems, mistakes, relationships, emotions, ever since I was born.

And I still have so many questions. Where do we come from? What happens after death? How do you deal with cancellation? Cristiano or Messi? Do aliens exist? What is love? Real Madrid or Barcelona?

From every day and ordinary to the deep and extraordinary. This isn't a normal podcast. Everything here is spontaneous, real and genuine. This podcast is like a deep talk with your close. as friends where vulnerability comes out. Conspiracy theories end up on the table and goals and lessons are shared. All in this life has an order perfect and everything is just. Wait-in me, I'm here to put me going to be able to be able to be

connect. The Chicharito. And together with IHA Radio, we're going to make the ordinary, extraordinary, stay close. It's a carac. Wow. Listen to learning to be human on IHard Radio, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast.

Keith Gianmanca seemed like a mild-mannered suburban dad, but secretly he became someone else, a master of disguise who went on a crime spree. At the time, did it seem like a crazy idea? It seemed very crazy, but I felt so desperate that I felt it was the quickest, easiest way out. Did you allow yourself to think about how it could go wrong and what that might look like?

No. I didn't want to manifest that. I was trying to manifest success. Every family has its secrets. But what happens when you discover that your dad has been living a double life? That is not the look of an innocent man. This is going to change my life and my family dynamic forever

because everything that had existed prior in my reality is now untrue. Listen to Deep Cover the Family Man. the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. So when it comes to making the decision to leave your nine to five behind, addressing the problem of ego is first. And it means being okay with not being able to control how people perceive you because of your choices.

There is going to be judgment. There's probably going to be a lot of fear from people who love you that's going to look like judgment. What we have to return to as our why. Over and over again, why am I doing this? Why is this important to me? I think you know your answer. It's important to you because you don't believe you deserve to be unhappy,

because you want more, because you know you have a calling, because you know yourself. You think and you believe and you have to believe that work can be enjoyable, because you have to try. That's your why. Everybody has one. And a 2021 study found that having a why behind a major life decision or change, that you can put into a single statement and point to and say, this is why I'm doing this, it greatly impacts your follow through, greatly impacts your perseverance, your success,

and remind yourself, like, you're not without backup options. You've already done plan B. Like a lot of people go in with Plan A and don't have Plan B sorted out. You've done Plan B. You went back to front. There is no, like, issue in that you couldn't eventually return to that job that you're going to leave. That's always going to be there. you've done the training you've got the you've done the degree you've got the work experience like

you are in a better position than many to now take a risk because you do have fallback I also think we need to be aware of like a lot of the time the judgment that we think or know will come from other people is really just desire that they have that can't be expressed they are looking at your choice, your decision, and it's easier to say that's going to fail or to say, what are they thinking, then to acknowledge what this person is really thinking deep down, which is that why don't I have the guts to do that? And the fear that maybe it will end up turning out really well for you, and they're going to have to face the fact that it could have turned out really well for them as well.

So just be conscious of why and how other people's opinions about your choice is probably more of a reflection of them than of you. Next is the practicality problem. As someone who has quit their 9 to 5 for this very podcast, I want to tell you some things to be prepared for. I think we definitely glamorized quitting the 9 to 5 grind because, of course we do. Like unless you're part of the 25% who are made for that lifestyle, like there are challenges and you're going to be unhappy.

But there are also challenges with the like, I quit my 9 to 5 and I've never been more fulfilled lifestyle that we see. And things that you probably wouldn't think about. The first one, which you probably do know, is that it's very expensive. They do tell you this, I will say. But I just think, practically speaking, you need to be prepared for a lifestyle adjustment. So I personally had, from memory, like three to four months of expenses saved up. And I did have my, like, door back into my nine to five that I was very grateful for.

It was still a risk. The risk was worth it for me. just because something is a risk though doesn't mean it needs to be spontaneous and so I really took as much time as I could to prepare save save save again build alongside your nine to five for as long as you can if you can and have a bit of a squirrel mentality you know how squirrels like berry hide their food hide their nuts to survive the winter I did that as well before I quit my nine to five in the six months kind of leading up to me quitting I would yes I was saving but I was also like putting money onto an emergency debit card that I then put away for a rainy day that I didn't have

access to. I also got my car appraised so I knew what that was worth and what I was working with. I also picked up tutoring work and I got paid in cash and I wouldn't spend that money and I would hide it away so that like on a rainy day it was there. The squirrel mentality was really helpful as well because it stopped me from feeling like this was going to be a disaster and then I was going to fall flat on my face financially. Like I felt like there were different levels that I would drop to when I knew like, oh my God, maybe this isn't working out. And I was so lucky that, you know, it all did work out and I never had to use a lot of those things. But again, a lot of it was psychological and then I felt like I had the safety net. The second thing they don't tell you. And as a

pathological extrovert, I wish that somebody had said this. It is very, very lonely. you quit your nine to five, there is this period of like elation and excitement and like you're pursuing your dreams and you're building something and you're trying something new. Unless you have friends who are also doing that or you have friends in like creative industries or who run their own businesses, a lot of the time you're like, I am waiting. I'm going to spend my whole time waiting for somebody to also clock off from their nine to five so that we can hang out. And it can, it's a very unique situation to be in to feel like, oh, no, Nobody else really knows what I'm going through, but also I chose this.

I wish I just would have a friend in this. It can be quite an isolating thing. And the third thing is boundaries. If you thought you didn't have boundaries at your 9 to 5, pursuing a big dream, working for yourself, pursuing something, I don't know, creative or a business, you will have less boundaries there because now you are the boss, the employee, the accounting department, HR, social media, you're everybody. And you're not just doing this for somebody else.

you're doing this for you. It all counts. Like your input is directly correlated to the output. And yes, there's a bit of luck kind of thrown in there. But with the traditional job, like, you're a team and there's somebody else who can help you. There's also somebody else that you can kind of blame. You are going to work much harder. Unless you were like a doctor or like in finance or in a very high-pressure job, I would say nine out of ten. times, you're going to work longer, more intense hours on this new path. Again, it's worth it because you get the full impact of that output. You don't have to share it. And also, I think the dedication and motivation is much more accessible than it is when you're working for somebody else.

Perhaps psychologically, because you have a clearer vision and your goal is clear, you know what you want, you know what you're after, it's there, this is for you. But be warned. There are some just other considerations. So some things to include in your I want to quit my nine to five plan. Make sure you know what your explicit vision is for why you're doing this. Can you see it? Can you write it? Can you think about it? Can you feel it? What are three things that you're going to do in the first week, first month, first three months to execute that vision? Make sure you have practical steps? Have you thought about how you're going to manage money, how you're going to manage connection and how you're going to manage boundaries? Are you willing to do? Are you willing to

to sacrifice things in that department, I'm hoping your answer is yes. And what is the backup plan that doesn't require you to go back to your nine to five? I think you can have two backup plans, right? The nine to five is always going to be there. The effort that you put into that is always going to be there. What's your other plan for this more I work for myself, creative, big dream, independent lifestyle that won't require you to have to have made this big leap and then go all the way back. Maybe just go slightly back. I don't think there's any shame in going back to the drawing board or having that plan B. There's been heaps of times where I've, you know, something wasn't working and I think it's definitely this evolve or die mentality. And that's probably something you were

missing in your 9 to 5 evolution. But just be prepared that it's not going to be this easy, glamorous thing that a lot of people talk about online is a struggle, I still think, again, it's worth it. And at the end of the day, you're probably at this point when you have little to lose and a lot to gain, right? The job that you've been doing or are currently doing has already taken all that it can from you. And I think when you get to this very existential point of like, what am I doing this for? What am I here for? What? Like, why? Why? I'm am I wasting my time? There is no pushing through that.

The only thing that's on the other side of that is just to become completely switched off and resentful. So if you have even in the slightest capacity, the desire to move beyond this lifestyle, the capability, the financial position, or you could put yourself in a financial position where you should give this a go, I think just even having the experience. experience of three, four, five months of trying is going to be worth so much so that at least you can go back to your nine to five if it doesn't work out and say, hey, but at least I didn't have to sit here for the next 30, 40 years wondering and wishing and thinking, what if, what else,

what could have been? So that is kind of your guide. In summary, I want to say if you are struggling with your 9 to 5 right now and you are feeling like it is crushing you, you are most certainly not alone. I hear about it all the time because I think this life, the way that it is set up, it's no longer just the 9 to 5. It's so much more than that. It's so time consuming, so crushing in a way that I think, I think that we can't really understand until we're living it. It was made this idea of the 9 to 5 was constructed in a different time and it's okay to want more. and it is possible to have more. I think, again, there are certain personalities for whom the nine to five will never be fulfilling.

Maybe that is you. And if it is, you have those two options. Either deprioritize your nine to five whilst you're still in it or seek an alternative and take the risk, especially if you're in your 20s, like, why not? Like, obviously, if you have a valid reason, don't take this as like, oh, be disappointed in you or like you're giving up on your dreams because I know it's very complicated and it's not an easy decision. But if the reason is quite paper thin, if it's a bit of a paper wall that you could push down, I think you kind of owe it to yourself to try. So I hope this has been motivating. If you have

made it this far into the episode and you're listening on Spotify, leave a comment down below, what is the life that you want beyond the 9 to 5? What is the dream job? Maybe you don't dream of a labor or dream of a job. dream life that you are looking for beyond this structure. I hope that you find it. I think that you are absolutely capable of doing it. I don't want to like, I sit here and say, oh, because I've done it, you can because I know everybody's circumstances are different. But if you have ever thought, like, is it worth it and will it work out? The answer is yes. And I do think that you owe it to yourself. You can watch this episode on Netflix and all other episodes by following the links in the description. You can read the transcript of this episode on Substack, also available

in the description. Instagram, links to my book, all those things are down there as well if you want to do some exploring. Again, I hope you enjoyed this episode. If you have any further thoughts that you want to share, you can DM me on Instagram and I would be happy to listen to them. But until next time, be safe, be kind. Especially be gentle with yourself if you're finding yourself. Very burnt out by work. I feel you. We will talk very, very soon. There was no anything inside those eyes. They turned black.

It scared the hell out of me. People wake up. I'm the one that saw the murder take place by Krivac and DePippo. Anthony DePippo showed no signs of remorse, appearing unfazed after being sentenced to the maximum. I said I'm not guilty. I'll take it to the grave. Listen to the devil's quarry in the Bone Valley Feed on the IHeart Radio app. Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Joy is essential and it's also elusive. But now, there's a new and exciting way to start your journey toward a more joyful existence. Joy 101. It's a new podcast hosted by me, Hoda Kotby. If you're craving inspiration to maximize your joy, tune into these candid, uplifting, and moving on-air chats. Open your free IHeart Radio app. Search Joy 101 and listen now.

Joy 101 with Hoda Kotfi is presented by CVS. Everyone sees me as a football player, but before anything else, I'm human. Every single day I'm still learning how to live with problems, mistakes, relationships, emotions ever since I was born. This isn't a normal podcast. Everything here is spontaneous, real, and genuine.

Just honest, conversations about what it means to be alive. I'm Javier El Chicharito Hernandez and listen to Learning to Be Human on IHard Radio, Apple Podcasts, or whatever you get your podcast. Your husband is not who you think he is. Your body is not what you thought it was. Your identity is formed by a secret history. I'm Danny Shapiro. And these are just a few of the stunning stories I'll be exploring on the 14th season of Family Secrets. He kind of shoved me out of the way and said, move.

And he went out the front door and he jumped in a car and drove off. and that was the last time I saw him. Listen to season 14 of Family Secrets on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Here's something that should not be as complicated as it is, getting a racist statue removed. And here's something that should be a whole lot easier than it is,

getting a new one put up in its place. I'm Akela Hughes, and Rebel Spirit, season two, is about both of those things. As I was watching these statues come down, I was thinking about what it meant that I grew up in a majority black city in which there were more homages to enslavers than there were to enslave people.

Listen to Rebel Spirit Season 2 on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. This is an IHeart podcast. Guaranteed human.