The Psychology of your 20s - 428. The truth about Maslow's Hierarchy of Needs

Episode Date: June 13, 2026

Maslow's Hierarchy of Needs is one of the most famous theories in psychology. We've all seen the pyramid. We've all been told that before we can become our best selves, we need to climb through five levels of human needs, from food and safety all the way to self-actualisation. But what if that's not actually what Maslow believed? In this bonus episode, as part of our series myth-busting psychology, we're uncovering the surprising truth behind one of psychology's most iconic ideas, including: Why Maslow never actually drew a pyramid The forgotten sixth level of the hierarchy The Indigenous Blackfoot origins of the theory Whether self-actualisation is really the highest human goal Why the hierarchy isn't as rigid as we've been taught What modern psychology says about the evidence behind Maslow's ideas Happy listening! Watch on Netflix: HERE Follow Jemma on Instagram: @jemmasbeg Follow the podcast on Instagram: @thatpsychologypodcast Subscribe on Substack: @thepsychologyofyour20s For business: [e-mail] See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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take place by Krivac and DePippo. Anthony DePippo showed no signs of remorse appearing unfazed after being sentenced to the maximum. I said, I'm not guilty. I'll take it to the grief. Listen to the devil's quarry in the Bone Valley feed on the IHeart Radio app. Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Joy is essential and it's also elusive, but now there's a new and exciting way to start your journey

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Everyone sees me as a football player, but before anything else, I'm human. Every single day I'm still learning how to live with problems, mistakes, relationships, emotions ever since I was born. This isn't a normal podcast. Everything here is spontaneous, real, and genuine. Just honest conversations about what it means to be alive. I'm Javier Chichariot-O-Nand-es,

and listen to learning to be human. on IHard Radio, Apple Podcasts, or whatever you get your podcast. Your husband is not who you think he is. Your body is not what you thought it was. Your identity is formed by a secret history. I'm Danny Shapiro. And these are just a few of the stunning stories I'll be exploring on the 14th season of Family Secrets.

He kind of shoved me out of the way and said, move. And he went out the front door and he jumped in a car and drove off. And that was the last time I saw him. Listen to Season 14 of Family Secrets. secrets on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hello everybody. I'm Jemma Spike, and welcome back to the psychology of your 20s, the podcast where we talk through the biggest changes, moments and transitions of our 20s and what they mean for our psychology. Hello, everybody, welcome back to the show. Welcome back to the podcast.

It is so great to have you here back for another episode as we of course break down the of our 20s. Today, I have another bonus episode for you. If you are new to this series, our bonus episodes are our smaller, bite-sized episodes that seek to break down and debunk certain famous psychology theories or pseudoscientific ideas. You may see a lot online or hear everybody from your mom to your best friend, to the guy on the train talking about. Basically, this series is, It's myth busters, but for psychology and in podcast form. We've done the truth about dopamine, we've done personality tests, narcissism, flow states, whether the frontal lobe actually develops at 25.

And today, we are doing Maslow's hierarchy of needs and why our understanding of it is nowhere near where it needs to be. And also why the modern day depiction of Maslow's hierarchy is actually, incredibly inaccurate, maybe even false. It's a huge episode. I'm not going to waste any more time talking about things that aren't Maslow's hierarchy of needs. Let's jump straight into it. If you have a psychology background, even casually, if you have dabbled in the self-help space, I think it's safe to assume you have come across the hierarchy of needs. And the hierarchy of needs, Maslow's hierarchy of needs, was formed from his like major work that he's,

published, which was a theory of human motivation. Even if you don't know what I'm talking about by name, you have seen an image of this. You have seen an image of this in your career counselor's office, in a science textbook, on Instagram. It's usually represented as a pyramid with five layers, and it's built on a simple idea. Before you can focus on becoming your fullest self, you need to satisfy the most fundamental human needs, which sit at the base of the pyramid. And then you work your way up. Now, this theory was developed by Abraham Maslow. He's an American psychologist, and he first kind of put this together in the 1940s. Maslow famously practiced a form of psychology called humanistic psychology, which prioritizes the push towards human flourishing and self-realization.

And this hierarchy is like the cornerstone of this specific psychological discipline, because it suggests that needs at the bottom of the pyramid, whilst seemingly basic, are essential for survival. And they're also not examined enough by psychologists. And it basically instructed the academic, the psychological community, like if you want to, if you want your patience, if you want humanity to thrive and to be fulfilled, we need to pay more attention to things like emotional security, financial security, just physical. security, having food, having water. And he basically, he used this theory that he came up with to describe a lot of things and a lot of problems he saw in psychology and with humanity, like the need to address poverty in order to achieve greater psychological and intellectual thriving in

society, why we can't be creative or answer deep questions about life until we're out of a place of survival and why emotional security matters just as much as physical safety or financial security and he also, I don't think this was his intention, but it's now very much used to explain how the pathway to becoming your best self. If you cannot picture the pyramid at this stage, I would highly recommend, do a quick Google search of what it looks like because this episode will make a lot more sense with that visual in mind. But let me walk you through each layer starting from the very bottom. So at the base of Maslow's pyramid are our physiological needs. food, water, sleep, shelter, basic things required to keep us alive. These are our core human survival

needs. Once we have those, the theory goes that we can then build our safety needs. Safety needs is the next layer. It is essentially saying once survival is taking care of, we can begin to think about long-term security and physical safety. We can begin to think about our long-term health and about our routines, kind of knowing that tomorrow isn't going to be completely uncertain. The third level is love and belonging. Humans are social creatures. So we need friendship. We need family.

We need intimacy, community. We need meaningful relationships. We need to feel connected to other people and accepted by them. But that cannot be prioritized until, you know, you know where your next meal is going to come from or until you feel safe. So love and belonging is the third. layer. And then on top of that layer is esteem needs. This includes self-respect, confidence, achievement, recognition, essentially just this core belief in this core sense that we matter and we have value. It's really just about how we see ourselves and how we feel we're being perceived. You can kind of

see at this stage how all these needs build on each other until finally we get to the top of the pyramid, which is self-actualization. As I said, I think previous, obviously. This is the desire to fulfill our potential, to pursue our purpose, to express ourselves creatively, intellectually, to grow as individuals, and to become who we are capable of becoming. Interestingly, later in life, Maslow actually replaced self-actualization with self-transcendence as the highest human goal. I said replaced, that's not true. He basically added an additional layer and that additional layer or level was self-transcendence. Self-actualization to him was rather individualistic and he kind of took issue with how people were interpreting it the older that he got.

Ultimately, he realized that being able to be kind to others, our capacity for altruism, for empathy to take our good fortune and pass it on, being a good community member, that is the peak of the human experience, not feeling accomplished, not feeling like you know yourself. There's two words that Maslow loved to use to describe this, and they are probably two of the hardest words I will ever say on this podcast. Are we ready? The first is Gemen, oh God, I'm going to try again. Okay. One more time. Gemen Shaftend get full. Probably butchered it, but it's a German word. it means the psychological health that follows from caring about others. And the next word is bodhisattva.

It's a Buddhist notion that somebody who is fulfilled is somebody who strives for compassion towards others. Apologies if I got those wrong. I can never get my way around complex words. My Australian accent makes it so hard to ever do anything that is not just like brutal, simple English. But this idea of self-transent, of bodhisattva, of I'm not even going to try the German one, is something that textbooks

don't include. I've never seen this spoken about, at least when I was studying psychology. Essentially, and I'm really drilling this point home because I think, I just think it's such an important point. It's all fine and great to self-actualize. But what do you even do with that? Like, can you truly be fulfilled as an accomplished individual alone in your ivory tower if you are not connected to other people. And if you do not have empathy for other people that drives you to connect with them and give on to them and be kind to them, that to Maslow was the most enlightened psychological state. So that's one thing people don't know about Maslow's hierarchy of needs. There is actually another special bonus layer, another thing we need to achieve. The other

thing we often get wrong is that, drum world, please, Maslow actually never displayed or articulated his hierarchy as a pyramid. He very rarely even referred to it as a hierarchy. According to the psychologist Scott Barry Kaufman, who actually took on Maslow's unpublished work and made it his mission to expand upon these theories, this pyramid depiction that we are so familiar with was actually created by management consultants who were trying to sell a particular interpretation of the model. This depiction, Kaufman argues actually, he says it's done a great disservice to Maslow's original theory. It's really simplified it. In an article by the British Psychological Society, they speak about how the pyramid depiction suggests that our journey towards self-actualization,

self-transcendence operates almost like a video game. And it kind of leads people to assume that you level up in life by unlocking the door from one layer, to the next, to the next, to the next. Maslow's conceptualization was that each cluster of needs, your social needs, your esteem needs, your survival needs are interdependent, and they have to be experienced simultaneously. The hierarchy, it needs to be viewed in an integrated way. That is, each cluster of needs rests upon each other, not in a consecutive way, but in like a circular way. The other thing this pyramid depiction doesn't explain well is how people can be at

different stages without every single stage before it being entirely 100% fulfilled. For example, people who don't necessarily feel like they have great social support, who are maybe really lonely, aren't connected to a family unit or even to a community, can still go on and make amazing art and care for others and reach those peaks of self-actualization and self-transcendence, even though their social needs from the outside don't seem to be being met, you know? People who may not have enough food to eat, who are struggling with poverty, still experience deep meaning, still have respect for themselves. You can kind of see how this pyramid idea gets really tricky in that it gate keeps

higher, more purposeful functioning for only the rich, healthy, the happy, the loved. And we know that's not the case. And Maslow didn't want us to think that that was the case, that you can only achieve this high, high point if everything is going right in your life. And if, like, you are a certain type of individual who does not suffer, has not suffered, has all their needs available to them. I think that's a big issue I take with Maslow's hierarchy is, again, that it can gatekeep certain, you know, higher. Again, I said higher, but, you know, certain seemingly more enlightened forms of functioning for people who have it all together or who have had life handed to them in a way that was already all together. And if you're experiencing poverty,

if you're lonely, well, you haven't achieved that layer. So there's no possible way that you can be self-actualized. There's no possible way that you can self-transend and care for others when we kind of know that's not true. Well, we don't kind of know. Like we do know. So that's another kind of myth or misconception about Maslow's hierarchy, the very fact that it is not a pyramid, he thought of it as more circular. Let's now turn to the next misconception, the next hidden part of history to do with Maslow's theory, and perhaps the least reported of them all. Maslow was in fact not the original creator of this theory of human flourishing. He wasn't even the second, he wasn't even the third. He just gave it a name. He was. He was.

was just the person who made it popular. Maslow's hierarchy was actually inspired by the people of the Blackfoot Nation. In a Native American tribe, I think they're in Montana, they're in Canada. So in the 1930s, mid-1930s, Maslow went to this place called Sikseka. It's like the largest reserve of the Blackfoot Nation, and he spent six months living there, observing their social hierarchy. He kind of learned their language. More specifically, he learnt about a way of life they had, which doesn't have an English word, didn't have one then, doesn't have one now. But when we compare it to Maslow's theory, it looks very similar. He was deeply inspired by what he saw.

According to information from the University of Alberta, the Blackfoot model actually was structured as the inverse to Maslow's eventual theory. So for them, the base was self-actualization. In their view, we are each born into the world as a spark of divinity, with a greater purpose embedded in us. After we're born, belonging occurs as like the tribe is there to love and care for us. And through that love is how we then receive basic survival needs and basic survival resources. You know, it's how we get food.

It's how we get safety. It's how we get security. It's how we tend to those needs. We then from all that achieve community actualization or self-transcendence or community transcendence. Because due to this system, we're able to support everybody. people contribute back to the community. And that leads to something bigger that isn't even in Maslow's model, but is still so crucial, which is something called cultural perpetuity.

Each member of the tribe, they say, is one day going to be gone? So passing on knowledge and passing on a deep truth about how the community operates and how people take care of each other. And in order to maintain harmony, that is the ultimate goal. so that the community, the family, the culture, the society endures. I don't know. I never learned that when I was, I never learned anything about that when I was studying this originally. And I feel like it is such a, it's quite sad that that's not included because I think,

I think almost their theory is a little bit better than Maslow's. It kind of makes more sense to me. So I'll go into this a little bit further about how this kind of came to be buried in the history books. So Maslow originally arrived in Sikika to explore a different theory, and that was his theory of social dominance and how order is maintained in society through different means like violence, punishment, shame. But instead, as his diaries and records, which were produced by the University of Montana show, he kind of just, he discovered something he didn't think he was going to see. He discovered astounding levels of cooperation, minimal inequality, restorative justice, full bellies, high levels of. of life satisfaction, as they say, he estimated that 80 to 90% of the Blackwood tribe had a quality

of self-esteem that was only found in 5 to 10% of his population. And that's when he came up with this idea. Like, look at what these people have and look at what they can achieve. These people are self-actualizing because all of these needs are being taken care of with and through the community. He also witnessed a giveaway ceremony while he was. was there that is said to have inspired his idea of self-transcendence. So during the giveaway, this is like a big ceremony in Sikika. Members of the tribe arranged their teepees in a circle, and they publicly piled up all that they had collected over the past year. And those with the most possessions, you know, told stories of how they found them, how they amassed them, how they

made them. And then they gave every last thing away to people who needed it more. And to Maslow, that was self-transcendence. This community had reached a point, where personal artefacts, personal things didn't matter anymore if the community was suffering, if the community was in need, what is the point of personal possessions? I think this is the most important thing in this episode, because Baslow himself, as far as we know, did not shy away from speaking about this. He was, I think according to records from what I've seen very open, that like this is where the idea came from. It really inspired him. But according to researchers, the American and the Canadian government buried the black

foot roots of Maslow's theory because they didn't want it to elevate a positive narrative about these people. It was only really rediscovered, not so much rediscovered, but republicized after Maslow died. Some 50 years later, when someone went to write a book on his life and they went to the Smithsonian archives and then they went to Maslow's daughter who essentially gave them permission to excavate his hidden archival box. And as they were looking through it, they found all these entries and all these accounts and all these early theoretical ideas from his time there that would become his theory of human motivation seven years later, which is the birthplace of the now we know as the hierarchy of needs. This is so important to know and to share especially,

especially since psychology has so many underlying issues as an increasingly but also historically white westernized discipline. Here we have an example of a core concept, a core theory, one that millions of people know about, that was directly informed and based on the teachings and cultural harmony of a Native American group. And it's a theory they don't get credit for. Only the man who named it does. I found out about this a few years ago, actually, for the first time, thanks to a listener of the podcast. And it's just kind of stuck with me ever since. So I'm really glad that we get to talk about it today. And it's, you know, perfect timing to do a full episode on this.

with that in mind, and I would really, really encourage you to go and look at this more. There's a bunch of, a bunch of like really interesting historical accounts available at like the University of Montana website, University of Alberta website that goes through all of his diaries and all of that. And there's also a lot of just like personal accounts from back then of people who were there when he was writing the theory that, yeah, it's just really interesting to, to dig into. But with that in mind, let's move on to the final myth of Maslow's so-called hierarchy. and that is that it is universally applicable, or even further, that it has strong empirical evidence that makes it a reliable and valid framework. The truth is, Maslow's hierarchy is not

that scientifically supported, even if it is really, really popular. And I wanted to include this at the very end after talking about where he got the theory from, because it shows that his methods of coming up with stealing, getting inspired by whatever you want to call it, were not scientific, even if they produced something that a lot of us relate to. It was entirely derived from his own personal observations and personal anecdotes and the knowledge of a specific people. And he never tested it, not once in a proper scientific setting. All of his ideas that, you know, we have these five needs and five needs only now six, that we need to complete them all in order to fulfill others,

that self-actualization and self-transcendence is accessible to everybody and that people even get a sense or a feeling from it, that it's even impactful, not examined, not really investigated. Since his death, researchers have found little to no evidence for the validity of the five-need hierarchy. One of the most frequently cited reviews came from Bridgewall and Waba in 1976. They reviewed studies based on his theory and stated,

The Literature Review shows that Maslow's need hierarchy theory of human motivation has received little, clear, or consistent support from the available research findings. Some of Maslow's propositions are totally rejected, whilst others receive mixed and questionable support at best, which is a crazy statement for a theory that has been taught in schools, and psychology labs and classrooms and offices for decades at this point. But there you go. It may not even be true. Now, in his defense, Maslow never promoted his theory to be a final truth on human flourishing. He was honestly just writing, speculating, he was interested in this and something stuck. But it's interesting to see how many of those original theories he had and

original ideas that he did take from the Blackfoot Nation have been taken out of context now in the modern day. I still think it's a nice idea. I still think it does provide a promise or a path to how we could provide for people and how society should and can operate and how we should take care of others. But does it deserve its position as one of the most famous theories of psychology? I don't know. Let me know what you think down below. That's all I have for you. As I said, it's a bonus episode. I always do these bonus episodes and I end up speaking for like 30, 40 minutes, but that is not their intention. We're trying to keep these short and sweet. So let me know what your thoughts are. Let me know if you think there is a better theory out there, better than

Maslow's. Let me know if you were surprised to learn anything in this episode or if you have further context or information about this that I may have missed. As I said, I actually didn't know a lot of this until a listener reached out to me a couple of years ago and corrected something that I'd said in an episode. And I'm very grateful for that because it sent me down this really interesting path and I got to learn so much. So if there's anything else you want to contribute, I would love to hear from you in the comment section below on Spotify or you can DM me if you're listening elsewhere on Instagram at That Psychology Podcast. Also a reminder, we are now on Netflix. If you want to watch full episodes of The Psychology of Your 20s, not this episode though, because our

bonus episodes are just for people who listen to the audio podcast, the OGs, as I would say. We also have a substack and just so much else going along and going on, not going along, going on down in the episode description. So head there if you want to learn more. Find us, do anything really. But until next time, I hope you enjoyed the episode. Give me any ideas of what you want me to debunk next. I would love to do it for you. Be safe, be kind, be gentle to yourself. We will talk very, very soon. There was no anything inside those eyes.

They turned black. It scared the hell out of me. Evil, wake up. I'm the one that saw the murder take place by Crevecette and DePippo. Anthony DePippo showed no signs of remorse, appearing unfazed after being sentenced to the maximum. I said I'm not guilty. I'll take it to the grave. Listen to the devil's quarry in the bonework.

Valley feed on the IHeart Radio app. Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Joy is essential and it's also elusive, but now there's a new and exciting way to start your journey toward a more joyful existence, Joy 101. It's a new podcast hosted by me, Hoda Kotby. If you're craving inspiration to maximize your joy, tune into these candid, uplifting, and moving on-air chats. Open your free IHeart Radio app.

Joy 101 and listen now. Joy 101 with Hoda Cotty is presented by CVS. Everyone sees me as a football player, but before anything else, I'm human. Every single day I'm still learning how to live with problems, mistakes, relationships, emotions, ever since I was born. This isn't a normal podcast.

Everything here is spontaneous, real, and genuine. Just honest conversations about what it means to be alive. I'm Javier Tornandez, and listen to Learning to Be Human on IHA Radio, Apple Podcast, or whatever. you get your podcast. Your husband is not who you think he is. Your body is not what you thought it was.

Your identity is formed by a secret history. I'm Danny Shapiro, and these are just a few of the stunning stories I'll be exploring on the 14th season of Family Secrets. He kind of shoved me out of the way and said, move. And he went out the front door, and he jumped in a car and drove off, and that was the last time I saw him.

Listen to Season 14 of Family Secrets on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Every family has its secrets. But what happens when you discover that your dad has been living a double life? That is not the look of an innocent man. Is everyone lying to me about who they are? I felt such desperation.

I felt it was what I had to do. Listen to Deep Cover the Family Man on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. This is an IHeart podcast. Guaranteed human.