The Psychology of your 20s - 66. Dating in our 20’s - why we date the wrong people

Episode Date: January 5, 2023

This week I bring on a special guest and a close friend, artist Sydney Farey, to discuss the horrors and surprises of dating in our 20’s. We discuss the psychology behind why we are attracted to the wrong people, the impact of our childhood and early relationships on our romantic lives and how to prioritise yourself whilst we date during our 20’s.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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pumped for today's episode because we have a fantastic, amazing guest joining us to talk about this week's topic. Hi, Sydney. Hi, Gemma. How are you? I'm amazing. How are you? I'm so good. Thank you for agreeing to come on board. It's my pleasure. I feel like we've been wanting to do this for a while, right? A long time. Yeah. Yeah. I might just give you a bit more of an introduction. Please. So, because I feel like we're already just having a chit chat away. Yeah. So Sydney is one of my, probably one my closest, closest friends, but you didn't know that. Same. No, no, same. It's feeling is reciprocated.

It's mutual. Yeah. Thank God. I hope so. Yeah, yeah, I think we're good. But, Sydney, you are, do you want to explain what you do, how we met before we jump into? Sure.

My name is Sydney, like the city. Currently, I reside in Melbourne, and I am a tattoo artist, among many other things. I always have different creative pursuits happening, but predominantly I'm a tattoo artist. I run a creative publication called Sweden Sauer that centers around Asian-Australian identities. I also work in consulting a little bit, do some freelance graphic design, and I'm a trained printmaker, which is what I studied. And Gemma and I met in Canberra. How long ago was that? Two years? Three years ago. And we met through, well, we actually met like at a party randomly before the start of COVID

and then COVID happened we didn't stay in touch but Sydney as you could have probably heard and seen is a jack of many trades Jack of many trades Jack of all trades Jack of all trades or not all of them literally well pretty much all of them

has so many different amazing things that she does and through her publication the sweet and sour zine zine scene whatever you want to yeah both work yeah both are correct the publication. She was running a life drawing class, and I went to it. And I, like, went up to you and was like, hi, I don't know if you remember me.

And you were like, oh, hey, like, how are you? And then the rest is really history. And we are here today to talk about something we talk about quite a bit when we're around each other. And, like, not in the way that we're like, oh, like, boys, boys, boys. Yeah. Ew, no. No, I don't think it is like that. And even if it was, like, who gives a fun?

I love boys. And I hate them. And that's what this episode is about. Literally. It's about the nuances of hating and loving the opposite gender for romantic purposes. But what we really want to talk about is, like, a lot of things, why we can really struggle with dating in our 20s, why we fall in love with the wrong people, why we date the wrong people, how we attract these, like, the same kind of individuals.

I feel like it's something that a lot of us have to learn in our 20s. Maybe you don't. Maybe you found your person and that's it. And congratulations, if that's you. But for most of us, I would say you find the people that you truly love and the type of person you truly love through a lot of trial and error. Would you agree? Yes. Yes. And it's hard and it's exhausting. Yeah. But I think it's always worth it. Yeah. I would say so. It hasn't, to be honest, hasn't been worth it for me so far. well I think you'll reflect back on that in five or ten years and realize that all the shitty things that have happened to you in your dating life have made it worth have made you know it worthwhile worthwhile yeah even this year actually I think that I was like dating someone at the end of last year and the amount of like growth that came out of that was ridiculous

like he like completely broke my heart and it was like terrible yeah sometime yeah and then I was like like I just like completely became a different person like with all like I think it left me feeling so insecure I had like the lowest self-esteem I think I've ever had and I couldn't like jump into a new relationship to fix it so I had to do it all myself and now like the person I was 12 months ago I don't know I don't think I don't think much of her exists anymore what about you to learn any lessons from this year you've had quite a few lessons I feel like it's been a busy year for you in terms of dating. Yeah.

Wait, don't they say that your cells, like, not regenerate, but like, they die and then they regenerate every 12 months or something like that? So literally the person you were 12 years ago physically doesn't exist anymore, which I think is an interesting metaphor for what you just said. Oh, my God, yeah. But it's so funny because, like, even though those cells don't still exist, right, like, all those memories still do? Yeah.

You can't get rid of that. Yeah, I'm like, how? Whoa. Whoa. We need to do some real serious science on this episode. Because I do not understand that. Yeah, if the cells that hold those memories don't exist, then how do those memories still exist?

It's fucking the demon. The demon is at work in our mind. Damn. Well, like, that is actually such a good point. I think it's also the thing with blood, right? Like, all your blood? I guess it's still the cells. Yeah.

Actually, I do know the answer to this. Your neurons, your synapses, they actually, the cells within them might regenerate, but you can never have more neurons than you were born with. That's true. Which is why, like, doing hardcore, like, drugs or, like, when, if someone is an alcoholic, can be so, especially in their infancy or not infancy, but, like, in their early teens or late teens, can be so damaging because you never get more neurons than you're born with, which is why, I guess, like, our memory is staying.

so permanent because either you like completely damage your brain and you get amnesia and then you can forget about whatever it is that haunts you or you don't and you're rough anyhow there's the science behind it I feel like that was kind of like a patchwork

explanation yeah yeah we got there though yeah we did so lessons any 2023 lessons oh man I should have rid the list I have so many like TikTok saved or it's like things I wish I knew about dating in my 20s and things I learned from dating this year. And I have all my favorite ones.

I should have written down a list of my favorite ones. Yeah. Can you remember when it's like particularly like? Yeah. I think, um, I think one thing that's really stuck out. Okay, two things really stick out to me when you ask me that question. Two kind of statements. The first one we've heard this a million times.

And I think we all try and convince ourselves to believe it, but a lot of us don't. If, if he wanted to, he would. And the second statement is, um, why are we having relationship problems and people were not in a relationship with? And I feel like both of those things really encapsulate my my dating life of 2020, which is

kind of sad when those two statements aren't exactly positive, but I really, yeah, I really think those accurately reflect my life. I think through all, I've dated a lot of men in 2020, like a lot. 2020. My bad. I've dated a lot of men in 2022 and in 20, no, 2020

I was in a relationship, so I didn't date a lot of men. Try that again. Hopefully. I dated a lot of men in 2022. And I think so many times I was willing to give them the benefit of the doubt. I was willing to give them a second chance. And I really believed that a lot of these men maybe were the one and that they really, really cared for me and loved me even.

And I saw the best in them. And I kept giving them second chances and thinking that they were not not, not, I didn't want them to change. but perhaps I held on to the hope that they would realize that, you know, I was a really good person and they wanted to be, you know, have something with me. And they told me they wanted it and whatever. But I think seriously, if he wanted to, he would. I think people say they're not ready for a relationship. But if you really do love someone and value someone and you want to be in a relationship with them,

you'll make it work no matter what. No matter. I completely agree with that statement. Like, if they wanted to, they would. Yeah. I did see this, like, turn on it that was like, if they know, then they should. It's like if they know what you expect,

then they should reciprocate it. And if they don't, well, then they're definitely not the right person. But I honestly believe this, because I think about my own perspective towards dating, when I really care about someone, like, I am willing to give them everything. Everything, yeah.

And probably more than I can give, more than they probably deserve from me as well. And there have been times in my life when I've been like, I do not want a relationship. I am so not in the mindset. And then I meet someone and they are the right person and I end up dating them for like two years.

And yeah, there is those times at the beginning where I'm like, oh, I don't know, I don't know. But not for their, like, not for my sake, for their sake because I don't want to hurt them. When you really, like, can feel chemistry with someone and you have that intuition, like, there really is no reason why you shouldn't be ready for commitment. No, nothing will stop you.

Yeah. Yeah. It's a good lesson, actually. And I also just think it's something that I've learned more, the more men I've dated, where I'm like, do I really want to be dragging you, kicking and screaming into a relationship with me? Yeah, yeah. Or like begging you for. Yeah, or try and convince you or persuade you or do things to make you, you know, understand that you do want a relationship with me. Yeah.

No, you should just know. Yeah. And it's also just like, you know what? Your person's probably out there. And if it's not me, well, I don't think that love should be made up of so much tension and so much difficulty. Yeah. No, I think another lesson I learned from this year is that things are really quite black and white.

Like, I think I made up excuses for lots of people. Like, you know, I'd see someone and be like, oh, they would be in a relationship with me if they didn't have this going on in their life. And they do really, really love me and care for me and want to be in a relationship with me, but this is happening. And maybe after that happens, they'll be different or, you know, this will happen and that'll happen. No, it's really black and white. If they wanted to, they would. If they wanted me right now, they would be with me. Yeah.

And they wouldn't make up those excuses. Well, I think about the example, like what you went through in the last two months, right, with that person. Mm-hmm. And are we okay to talk about this? Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I wonder if he'll listen to the book. No.

I wonder if you will. Maybe. But, yeah, it's fine. I don't care. Well, if you're listening, you really fumbled the fucking bag. Yeah. Bitch. Like, that felt so unnatural coming out of your mouth.

Natural or unnatural or unnatural? Unnatural. Well, he did. He did. Remember you called me and I was like, that man just had the biggest L of his life. Because I think this is, oh, he does actually know it. A little Christmas message.

We all see right through that. There was literally a TikTok I sent you about that. Sending the Christmas message. Yeah. And you know what? He really did. And it's something that I've realized more and I hope, I think you've realized this as well.

the more you mature and grow confident in yourself and like see your value, the more you're like, wow, totally your loss. Yeah, completely. Most of the men who treat us the worst are those who really have nothing going for them. Like, not much. Like, I was thinking about this the other day. I was like looking at the splattering of people that have broken my heart. And I was like, not one of them has accomplished anything that I could respect. especially compared to you.

Yeah. They, oh, I don't know if that. I think, I think, that you make me feel weird. No.

Without the comparison, right, if it's just not to be like relative about it, but like absolute. None of them, I like, they had no ambitions.

They had no dreams. Most of them didn't even have, like, a job. They didn't have anything they were passionate about. And even if they did, like,

they didn't take it very seriously. They weren't like self-motivated, self-starters, like none of it. So what are you? did you see in them? I don't know. I think I saw a project, to be honest. Or also I just saw what they could give me, which was like, I want to be loved. And I think it's a massive thing of mine where it's like I'm very much willing to actually go against what I truly believe in some

ways to receive affection and to receive romance. It's something I had to unlearn this year. And I did. I like very actively was like, I can see the times in the past in which I have actually undermined my own moral compass. I've gone against my values because I was so desperate for this person's admiration and for their love. And the result has been me feeling like completely distanced from my true self. And why, for what? For what reason?

Like I think about that guy I dated at the end of last year. Oh my God. Like I did, I was like, I lost friends because I chose to be with him. And it's like what you said, stop having relationship problems with people you're not in a relationship with. We weren't even like exclusive. And I still was willing to make those sacrifices. It's not his fault. Definitely not.

It's like all on me for not recognizing that for myself soon enough. I think like another thing that I really want to talk about is like, why do you think we do date the wrong people and fall in love with the wrong people? Given that we have all of that knowledge. Like we are obviously both quite successful. starting women who have a lot of people who love us and who create positive impact. Like you literally put art on people's bodies that they're going to have for the rest of their lives. How great.

Like that is like almost, that is so profound to me when you, every time I like see you at work. I feel so honored to be able to do that. Yeah. It's incredible. And we know all this about ourselves, right? Like we know that sometimes we just crave affection. We look past the red flags. that as I think successful women sometimes we settle a little bit because we worry that someone

won't ever want this kind of like I don't know not ever want it but like we'll feel intimidated or it's like when you when you're forced to be strong all the time sometimes you just want the soft yeah yeah yeah sometimes you just want the gooniness and like someone just really giving you a cuddle and like caring about you so why do you think it is that we have historically chosen to date the wrong people? I honestly, I don't know. Maybe it comes maybe it comes from, I think

I have a lot of insecurities. I think they probably stem from things I went through as a child and maybe the way my parents raised me, but I'm like, what did I read the other day? I have, like I,

someone sent me, Manu sent me this TikTok and it was like, um, some of you, back what was, I can't remember. Yeah. Um, yeah,

I think, I think, I think, I, even though I think logically, I know I'm a successful, you know, business woman,

I'm, I think I'm a relatively attractive. Oh, gorgeous. Thank you. Logically, I feel like I shouldn't have as many insecurities that I do have.

Like, I am so incredibly insecure. and I think maybe that plays a big part in how I date because I feel so insecure. Maybe I don't think that I deserve or have the capacity to be with somebody who is at my level who like I would really want to date and maybe I'm settling because I just don't believe I could find anybody better because I am so insecure. Wow. That's sad.

It is sad, but I think it makes sense, right? I saw, I read this article the other day and it was like a lot of the time, the reason why we get like the ick from people who like us too much is because we believe so deeply that we are not deserving of that love that we push them away, which is a big thing, right? Totally. You're like, I also, I think similarly, like in a very similar vein, as people who, you know, work really hard and have pretty big dreams that we know are going to require a lot of agency. We often see it as the case of like when I have to work harder for something, it's more valuable. Yeah. I think about this all the time. Yeah.

So it's like, okay, I think the way I was raised was like, if it's easy, then everyone can do it. And you don't want the thing that everyone has. Like you want to be, you know, you want to do something different and you want to really be good at something different and be able to touch people's lives in a way that like it's not everyone can do that. and you have to work really hard. So now it's like been ingrained to me. It's like, well, if something is easy, it's not worth having. Like in every other facet of our lives, we have to work really hard and put in a lot of effort. So that mentality then bleeds into our dating life.

When we have someone who's there who, like, is really obsessed with us, who really likes us, we're like, oh, this seems a little bit too good to be true. And I'm not used to getting something like this for free. And you push it away. You push it away. And then when there's someone that you have to work, when they, you know,

that you don't feel deserving of their love because they push you away and because they play hard to get or because they're quite cold or hostile will never give you what you want, you're like, well, this is what I want because obviously, like,

the best things in life aren't easy. So this, you know, this should be something that I work for. I think that as a mentality that we often have very unconsciously that we don't realize. I've, I honestly think that's a big explanation for some of my dating choices.

Yeah. It's how we get stuck in these situations because you're like, it's also, sorry, sunk costs as well. Sunk, what? Sunk costs. So it's like, okay, say for example, you buy like a really expensive pair of boots and then they break. You're like, you're not just going to throw them out because you already invested that money in them. Yeah. So you are going to pay that additional $40 to, you know, get the heel fixed.

And then the zipper breaks, you're not going to throw them out. You are going to pay additional money and it keeps piling up because you've made that initial investment that was so intense that you're like, I don't want to, I've sunk that money into this already. I don't want to lose that initial money, but actually end up spending more money than you probably would have if you just bought a new pair. And that's what it's like with relationships.

For example, you're like dating someone, you're like two months in and you're like, fuck, like, I've already told my friends about this guy. I've wasted two months on like getting to know him. I've invested, you know, time and energy and money into going on dates into doing fun things. And now he doesn't want the same thing, but I'm not going to give up because I've already put all of this effort. I've had all these sunk costs in this relationship. So I'm just going to keep throwing my time and energy at it and hoping that it turns around when really it would be better just to dump them right there, then and there. You've lost two months of time.

Just move on. Just move on. Yeah, you know, it's not a great situation. Like, it's probably not the outcome that you wanted. but you're actually going to end up losing more if you keep going, and it's very unlikely that you're going to get the outcome that you want. Have you felt that way? Does that, like, make sense?

Yeah. Yeah, the way you've explained that makes so much sense. Yeah. It's like gambling. It's like when people gamble, they're like, oh. You know, I've already like put in $2,000 on the pokies. But if I put $10 in, I might be able to win it all back. Yeah.

That's my theory, really. How do we change that thinking? I think I don't really know I guess it's like a conscious thing you have to be really really like explicit about and very much pay attention to but I think your point before about

like your childhood that also plays a role in whether or not you're going to I don't want to say like fall but like be vulnerable to these kind of psychological inner workings so like what do you think it was about how your parents raised you

oh my God we're actually sitting on a couch couch right now, so it's very Freudian. Like, fly back. Tell me about your childhood trauma. It is. Well, I don't really know what a successful relationship looks like, or a successful

marriage, I suppose, rather. My parents got divorced when I was four. My entire extended family, everyone's been through a divorce, everyone's remarried. Nobody in my life really has, I don't think I can't really think of anybody.

in my, like, close circle of friends and family who is in a successful relationship, a long-term relationship. No, actually, that's not true. I have uncles and aunts who are, like, remarried now. That's pretty far. Yeah. And also, how often do you see your uncles and aunts? Yeah, not that often.

But my mom's been divorced twice, and now she's fiercely independent and single. My dad only got remarried last year after 20 years of being single. He's just been remarried again. he's been dating his whole life. He seems happy now, but I don't know, like my, my mom, so I felt completely unattractive and undatable and I guess unfuckable when I was, like, since I was a teenager, since, since puberty. Yeah. And I didn't think I deserved anyone's love.

I didn't think I was attractive enough to, like, be with anybody. and my mom always told me I was fat and she always criticized my physical appearance a lot to the point where my sister developed an eating disorder. And yeah, she was relatively toxic when I was younger in the way that she raised me. She's good now, I mean, somewhat good. Like we have a pretty good relationship. But I think she didn't give me a lot of physical affection and didn't express her love to me in a tangible way when I was younger, because I mostly grew up with her from when I was 12 years old to

like 21, 22. And she never really touched me or hugged me or told me that she loved me. And so as soon as a, like the first time a man, like, told me that they felt I was hot or wanted to go on a date with me, I clung on to that, like so deeply because then I, then I realized I was lovable and that I could receive love and affection from people. And then I just began to crave that so much because I never got to. that in my childhood from my mother and then I became like a serial dater and I just needed to be with men I remember the first or second year I started

dating I would just I needed to be with people all the time um and the intimacy that I found through sex and through dating men um yeah like filled that whole yeah metaphorically and physically inside me the whole left yeah that my mother didn't like couldn't fail I do like the sentiment. I think that's why I date shitty men still because it stems all the way back from the way my mother treated me, from me like craving that in men.

Like now I'm more aware of it and I'm more conscious of it and I'm slowly changing and dating with more clarity and more consciously dating. But I do think there's still a part of me that still craves that love and that care that I feel like my mother

didn't adequately provide me and that I now find in men. Wow. Pretty profound. I think that you're, but I honestly think you're spot on. You reckon? Yeah, I think you deserve a lot of credit as well for moving past that. It's a pretty, like, the wounds from childhood are pretty hard to heal on our own. They are.

And you've done a pretty, an amazing job. Yeah. Our childhood has such a significant impact on how we approach romantic relationships later in life. whatever it may be like that that instance of your sister is so hard to hear because I'm sure all of us in some way or another have some niggling

little insecurity or mistreatment or trauma from childhood that we just can't seem to shake but still there like I think I had a similar thing to what you were saying where I never felt

like anyone found me attractive when I was younger and I never felt particularly, like, lovable. Like, no one really ever showed interest in me at all. Yeah. Compared to all the other girls, because I was, like, pretty nerdy, and I kind of, like, stuck to myself a little bit.

And I was, like, yeah, I was a bit of a nerd. And I didn't, like, go out and party or do anything like that. Like, I wanted to read and make art and, like, you know, go to book club and play basketball. Like, I was a loser. But I love that. I love that I was a loser. Because look at how it's turned out, right? Like, I moved away from...

home when I was 18 and like completely created a new life for myself that I love. But that early experience where everyone else around you is dating, it's having like their first sexual experiences, is like having these early romantic experiences. When you feel like you're missing out on those, you get you, you get older and suddenly you're like, okay, I want that now. And you begin to collect. because it's like every time you receive that affection that you never got in those early like teen years, those formative teen years, it feels initially like it's healing you. Like it's giving you the thing that you've always wanted.

Yeah, it's intense, right? I'm sure you, did you find that like that first? Yeah, yeah. And I'm sure it didn't mean as much to the man showing that, you know, to me, it felt it was much more important to me than it was to him. But yeah, it probably didn't mean anything, but to me it meant everything. and then they clung onto that so much more. And every time someone, a new person shows you that, it just, it kind of,

not so much reaffirms, but it, I don't know, it, like, pushes aside that belief that you have. Like, I'm not lovable. And every time, like, someone else shows you that you are, someone else shows you that they are attracted to, that they want to have sex with you, that want to date you. Yeah.

It just, like, pushes that belief further and further away. But it actually never really addresses it. No, it's like, it's a band-aid. It's kind of a band-aid solution. Yeah. makes you more reliant on them as well, which then makes the problem, I guess, kind of worse. Yeah, absolutely. Because you're like, shit, I didn't actually work on my self-esteem in other ways. I just used this external validation to distract me from that.

And to put a temporary band-aid over this, like, very big wound that is going to actually impact me not only just in my dating life, but everywhere else as well. That's definitely something I found. And then I was like, went through, I remember in like my second year of uni, I was just like, went through like a bit of a ho phase. Yeah. I was like, I just need this. Like, this is just like the most temporarily nourishing thing

I could find. It was like, it was like junk food. I was like, oh, yeah. It feels so good and like, yum, like, this is all I've ever wanted. And then like, you wake up the next day and you're like, oh, I feel so. I feel terrible.

And like, that insecurity is still there, especially when it's like, it doesn't just become about whether they find you attractive, it's about whether they can love you. And then they don't love you. and then that's an even bigger insecurity. Yeah, that makes a film more. Like, yeah, sure, I'm like, I'm fuckable and I'm attractive,

but am I lovable? Yeah. No? Like, you don't feel that way. And then you end up in situation chips, which is, I think, my bread and butter. Honestly, I've been in, like, four in the past. Yeah.

Year and a half. But I'm getting better at them now. Yeah. The last one I was like, he was like, I don't really want anything and I was like, great, see you later. Good for you. I was like, I was like not doing this again.

And then it actually was really great because after like a couple weeks I had that realization where I was like, whoa, like, this man really didn't put in any effort. He was actually not that nice to me. He like doesn't really do anything with his life. Like I would be like, tell me like, remember I asked him on one of our first date?

So I was like, what's the thing you're most passionate about? Yeah. And he couldn't answer the question. Mm-hmm. and he was like my family and I was like yeah everyone's passionate about their family like it's called love yeah like like

I was like and I was like oh you know he's still finding himself and then like cut to like five weeks later and I was like oh my gosh that should have given me that should have been the biggest indicator okay so I really want to talk about what we've learned

we've already talked about that a little bit but what are we bringing into our dating lives in 2023 what are our non-negotiables didn't you make that you made a list this year, didn't you for your... I made a list, can I read it? Yeah. So these are my, these are my expectations and dating boundaries for 2022.

I think they might change this year, but the first one was, I'm looking for a relationship. That was something I realized. I think I always thought that I was like the hookup, one night stand, situation ship girly, and like I could just have heaps of casual sex and I'd be happy. And then I was like, actually, no,

I would like to be loved and cared for and supported. So I guess set your intention. like know what you're looking for, know what you want. Yeah, I feel like that's the first. Or even what you don't want. What I don't want. Yeah, yeah.

Which might be, you know, one night's dance, casual sex, whatever it is. Here's the thing, like, I'm still up for that, but like, I'm looking for a relationship. So I think if it's someone that I could seriously see myself dating and they don't want to date me, I've learned pretty, I've learned now through trial and error, like we talked about. Yeah. To cut that off, like as soon as possible, so no one gets hurt. Yeah. I also said, I will only go on five casual dates before I know what they want. It used to be like three, but I was like, sometimes you really do just want to get to know the person and like have a bit of like almost a friendship there or like have enough knowledge before knowing what they want.

If they're looking for something casual that is not for me, so I will break things off, which I did with that guy that I was saying, I think things ended in like October. I was like, nah, not going to work. This next one I think is really important. They need to message me to make plans. if I made the last plan I expect them to make the next and I will not compromise if they want to see me

they will that one I broke because I think sometimes like I'm the busier normally the busier party like I work a full-time job I also run the show I also have so many other things

going on in my life friends other side hustles like sports family so normally I'm the busier person so it's sometimes up to me to be like to indicate when I'm free

yeah but most of the time i'm like i will be like i'm free on friday would you like to do something and then i if i've like planned the last day i'm like you expect them yeah yeah um frequent communication i'm not going for like i don't know i'm not going like two weeks without talking to someone completely and then they even like a week and then they like pop up i'm like okay if you can go without thinking about me for that long then i'm not really that interested and i don't think it's like a great foundation for if you're someone like me he was looking for a relationship at this point in their life this one's kind of like a little bit spicy so if you're my mom and dad you don't have to listen to this or someone I work with please after four dates where sex is involved

I expect a non-sexual date yeah because I think I fall into I fell into the trap with I said his name with the guy from end of last year like we would have sex every single day and I was like yeah obviously really enjoy having sex with you and it's like great but also I feel kind of like you don't really see me and it made me feel like me feeling pretty icky. Would you add anything to that list? I guess you're not really I feel like your your non-negotiables might be a little bit different. Yeah and I think um I don't think I'm looking for a relationship anymore. Oh yeah especially after what I went through the last breakup that I had, it definitely changed the way I think about how I date.

And I felt really, really completely misled in that relationship. If I can even call it a relationship. I would. Yeah, I think I would too. But then again, in saying that, if I met the right person, I think I would make it work, even though I might not explicitly be looking for a relationship right now. I also have a lot of travel plans next year, and I'm not willing to compromise on that currently for anyone.

Because you go to New York. Yeah, and Vietnam. Vietnam and the UK? Maybe. No, I'm going to the UK. I want us to go to the UK together. I'll go to the UK with you. Oh my God.

When are you going? March. But I think that's also a really good point. When I set these non-negotiables and these things that I've learnt, it's to protect myself because I realize that if I'm not explicit with myself and I don't compare the behaviour of someone I'm seriously interested in with this stuff, it can be quite detrimental and I can often get wrapped up I think you and I one thing we really have in common we are both incredibly sentimental romantic people yeah completely I think it's because we're both

quite creative as well so we want to we see the beauty and the love in so many places where I think other people don't yeah I feel like you're very like susceptible to to love I think I'm I just I'm so willing to believe like that this person wants to give me everything I think I am a romantic. Oh my God, absolutely. Romantic. Romantist? I'm a romantic.

I'm a hopeless romantic. I love love. I love receiving love. I just want to give love to everyone. And so when someone wants to give me love, of course I'm going to accept it. Why would somebody lie about that? I do not know. Why would somebody lie about that?

I don't know. If you can answer that for us, I feel like we would give you a sizable check. A lot of money. I can guess. I think it's, well, I think it stems from a deep insecurity within them. You know, they probably think they don't, you know, don't deserve love or don't have the capacity to be loved truly for who they are. So they love bomb vulnerable, beautiful people like us to make us, well, to feel closer to us

and to then make us. To get that connection. Yeah, yeah. I also think it's because they don't know what they want. Yeah. And also, they don't. They don't. And then like the start of a relationship is like always the fun part, right?

It's super exciting. And then they often don't realize that love and commitment takes more than just fun things and compliments and sex and gifts. Yeah. Like it actually takes vulnerability and honesty. Yeah. And often they're super on board for that first chapter. Yeah.

Where it's just like super fun and there's no responsibility. And it's like it's just getting to know someone. And then you get to that next stage where it actually requires you to have some kind of awareness of your emotional needs and their needs of others and they're like oh she's like I'm out like I can't do that how would you differentiate because I know every relationship is different and people yeah people always act differently when they meet you know everyone is different how would you differentiate somebody love bombing you with somebody who truly has fallen in love with you very quickly and showing that intensity at the beginning of you dating them and it's and it's true and it's authentic

and it's raw and they have no you know no negative um intentions towards you or no desire to manipulate you. How do you differentiate that? I actually was thinking about this the other day. I think it's about identifying what it's in response to. So it's love bombing if it's in response to perhaps you pulling away or them having done something maybe a little bit wrong. Yeah.

Or like it's something that's upset you. Yeah. Or like as I think it's a form, love bombing would be seen as a form of manipulation. It's the use of like love to not coerce but to attract you in a way that like they can't fulfill on their end. Yeah. So it's like if they're trying to win you over, that's love bombing. Yeah.

Because someone who, you cannot truly fall in love with someone unless it's reciprocated. Mm-hmm. Do you know what I mean? So it's like, yeah, you could have unrequited love. But when you think about that person who truly loves you, it's probably because you truly love them back. And you've both allowed yourselves to be vulnerable and to connect. So when they show you love in that situation, it's not like they're trying to win you over.

They've already won you over. Yeah. They're not doing it in. response to something that they've done wrong they're not doing it to kind of almost coerce you they're doing it because it's just this general this like serious like expression of a deep emotion whereas love bombing is a way of like winning you over and like capturing you yeah bringing you in and like all that excitement yeah yeah i honestly if you please don't take my advice like do your research because i don't know that's just what i think at least and i think that reminds me of um

when I watched he's just not that into you yeah and um I think they said what do they they said something like there is the exception you know like there's always that one or or two exceptions for people who you know meet someone and and instantly fall in love and it's so intense and passionate and beautiful and then it continues that way for years but for most of us what are they they say we are the rule yeah that's why it's called a rule yeah because it's typical yeah my grandparents are one of those exceptions. Oh my God. I went out for dinner with them last night.

They are so in love. They're like 90 and 80. Like 87 and 80, I think. And my granddad's still like, oh, babe, you look lovely tonight. And, like, calls her babe and, like, we'll literally do anything for her. They don't make men like that anymore.

They don't. They were telling me, my mom was telling me, when they first started dating, my grandma had just come out of a really messy divorce. Yeah. She doesn't listen to this, but I hope she won't mind me talking about it. She came out of this really messy divorce with my actual grandfather,

who I've never spoken to. And he was like really awful, and she met this man, my grandfather, and not my, my grandfather by nature, not by blood. Like, he is my grandfather, but he's not my blood relative. But still, like, family thrown through. And she met him, and he just, like, wowed her. Like what we were talking about, that distinction between just doing things because you love someone and love plumbing. He, like, took her on trips.

He bought her, like, diamonds. He bought her fur coats from Paris. He, like, he hired her as part of his photography business and got her to run everything. Like, got her in charge of everything. Would take her business advice. Bought her a house, moved her to Australia. Like, the whole cabab. Yeah.

Everything. If he wanted to. He would. And I was like, and literally, and is still in love with her. Yeah. Like, every year, like, is so, so in love with her and thinks that she is just the most amazing woman. And I was like, fuck. Mm-hmm.

I need to go back to whenever the 1960s and pick me up one of these guys. He's so lovely. It's honestly such a, but I feel very lucky now. You know, you've made me think that, like, I've actually, I've had those examples. And, like, my parents as well, I would say. They're still together. Yeah, they're still together. Mm-hmm.

I'd say they're pretty in love. I don't know. I don't like to think about it. But I've had those examples of, like, people sticking around and really putting in the energy. Yeah. Yeah. Well, one final question. Where do you see your love life at the end of 2023?

It's hard. It's hard. And, like, I feel like my, the, you know, context around my love life has changed so much in the last month. Yeah. That I'm rethinking everything. I see you fully in love. Do you reckon? Oh, yeah.

I know you say you're not looking for a relationship. I don't think you're looking, but as your very close friend, take it or later, I think you are someone who is a relationship girlie. I think, yeah, I think at the, you know, I think I am as well. Right now, yeah.

I think I do want to just give somebody all my love. Yeah, because you are so, so generous. When you love someone, you love them so deeply. You are one of the most generous giving people I have ever met in all my travels in my whole life. And I think you do want to give that to someone. Do, yeah. And you have so much of it to give. Like, the amount that you're giving people who can't even reciprocate is ridiculous.

Like, imagine when someone is reciprocating. It's going to be an explosion. I'm such a good girlfriend, I think. Oh, freak yeah. I would date you. I would date you too. Damn. Should we?

Lovers. Forever. I see being in a relationship. I see... Honestly, I don't think I'm getting into a relationship anytime soon. Really? Oh my gosh. Next year is so busy for me.

Yeah, you are in a relationship with your work right now. Yeah, I'm obsessed. It's ridiculous. Which is okay. I think that's... In fact, I think that's great. I know. I do, like, feel a bit self-conscious about it sometimes.

Like, I don't know, friends and family, often like, yeah, you need to not work all the time. And I'm just too, I'm too invested. Like, this is the big, like, one of... This is, I love doing this. It's such an investment to me. I just actually really care about it and want to do it every day. Every waking minute, I'm always thinking about it. So how can I have time to give that to someone else?

Because I think if I was to be dating someone, it would take away from the things that really drive me at the moment and really fuel my soul. So it wouldn't be what I would want. Thank you so much for coming on, Sydney. Thank you. That was such a fun episode. Yeah, I felt really cathartic.

Yeah. It always is to talk to you. Yeah. Aw, it always is to talk to you as well. I love you so much. I love you too. Oh my gosh. I also just feel like it's such a great kind of way to reflect on what we've learned this year and bring it into the new year.

Any final thoughts before we wrap up? Dating is such an important and such an important part of my life and it's so fun. But I think next year it's really time to focus on me. And I think, and I hope everyone listening also takes the time to really love themselves and dedicate next year. to yourself. Actually, there's this really good quote I saw. Do you mind if I read it to you? Yeah, of course. So it goes, if you spend your time chasing butterflies, they'll fly away. If you spend your time making a beautiful garden, the butterflies will come to you. And if they don't come, then you still have that garden. I love that quote. I think that's so beautiful.

That's so emblematic. Yeah, it's a great way to finish this episode. I think the one thing we haven't talked about much that is so important is that the relationship you cultivate with yourself, You know, we've talked a lot about dating, but that relationship is the most important one you will ever have in your entire life. Yeah. It's the only one that isn't going to disappear. It's not going to go away. It is essential that you spend time focused on what you mean to yourself, how you love yourself, what you like to do and those close relationships that really bring you joy. So the garden, your own garden, I guess.

One other thing before we go that we want to talk about is that we have. some merchandise coming out. Are you excited? I'm so excited for it. I am as well. We're doing a tow bag and a hoodie. It's going to be an exclusive launch and yeah, Sydney is actually designing both of them. Thank you for asking me to design it.

Oh, I literally, there's no one else I would have to do it. Of course. I trust you so much and I love what you do. So I was like, it's such an amazing thing that we can do together. And we were released some early images and the link. to purchase on the podcast Instagram at that psychology podcast. If you want to follow Sydney as well at Sid Farray, F-A-R-E-Y. Yeah, S-Y-D-F-A-R-E-Y.

Sid Ferry, F-R-E-Y. F-A-F-R-E-Y. And we'll release some pictures. If you want to get your hands on some merchandise to support the podcast to support Sydney's amazing artwork and amazing work as an artist, We would be very appreciative. And also it's just going to be really sick. Yeah.

Yeah, it'll be really... So pretty. Yeah. I can't wait to wear it. Oh, me too. It will be released in the next two months. So make sure you're following along to get your hands on that. I'm so excited.

It's one of the big things I wanted to do for 2023. And it's great being able to do it with a close friend. So thank you again for coming on. Thank you so much for letting me come on. Yeah, one of my favorite episodes. I love talking to my friends on the show. Oh. If you enjoyed this episode, if you enjoy the podcast, please make sure to leave a five-star review on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, wherever you are listening right now.

If you feel called to do so, it really helps the show grow and reach new audiences. And make sure you are following our Instagram at That Psychology Podcast. Like I said, it's where you will hear the first about merchandise. We also often do polls where you can decide what episodes are coming out in the week. that follows. I let my listeners decide what I record. So if you want to be involved in the community, please feel free to follow us over there. And thank you so much for listening. Hey, what's good, y'all? You're listening to Learn the Hardway with your favorite therapist and host, Kear Games. This space is about black men's experiences, having honest conversations

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