The Psychology of your 20s - 7. Would Maddy, Meg and Jemma get into Oxford?

Episode Date: August 12, 2021

It’s a bit of a different episode this week! We decided to take the all souls Oxford College entrance exam and answer some of the hardest questions in psychology that are asked of potential students. What are our answers? Listen in to find out.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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Hello, and welcome back to the psychology of your 20s, the very unprofessional podcast, whereby I, your unqualified guide, talk through some of the big life transitions in our 20s and what they mean for our psychology. Welcome back, everyone. Today we have some very special guests if you'd like to introduce you as the hills.

I'm Maddie. And? My name is Meg. Oh, good job. You know, for as much as you guys were talking before this, I didn't think it was going to be a struggle to say your own name. No, Maddie was going first. I made the eye contact.

Really? I thought the eye contact was you were going to go first. I thought it was you anyway. A miscommunication, guys. Which is what we need to talk about. Good segue, Meg. She's a natural. I know. So this was kind of a spontaneous episode.

Basically, the glorious Maddie, she's back from Queensland. Darwin. Excuse me. I'm sorry. Well, she's back from Darwin, but she had to travel through Queensland. Sunshine State. I did. The Sunshine State.

Yeah. To get to Canberra. And the other day, she got back and she messaged me these really cool questions. And it's not really like a typical episode, but I thought we'd answer some of them. Maybe we should talk about what these questions are. And also, I'm just an add-on, by the way. Thanks for inviting me. No, you're here to contribute a unique perspective of a 20-something-year-old.

No, she just my housemate, so we thought, oh, we should. Mine as well include her. Okay, continue. No, we value your insights. Yeah, no, I found these questions on TikTok. Oh, is that not on. There was this guy talking about, like, this college in Oxford. It's just a residential college, but in order to get in, it's a very rigorous selection process,

and they make you sit four, three-hour exams. It's 12 hours in total. Yeah, in total. It used to be five. And then you have to have an interview where there's like 50 people interviewing you, and they admit one to two people every year. It's really, really selective. That's just silly.

And all of this information is from TikTok. Why is it that selective? Because what do you get out of it? Oh, because you get funding to do research on whatever you want for seven years. At Oxford. At Oxford. Yeah. No, at a different meeting.

At Cambridge. At Cambridge. You're emphasising, yes, yes. It's the best university out there nearly. Uh-huh. And then you're just living with other people doing their seven years of research. But if only two. you get admitted what about all those other people?

Where did they come from? From previous years? So the college must only have like 20 people in there. Because you're there for seven years that you really... It takes a long time to filter people out. That's only 14 people. So that's a pretty small college.

It's a very small. Wait, is that how the maths would work? Isn't it like? Seven years? Maybe when they set it up, they were like, you know what, we'll be generous. We'll let like 100 people in. And then since then,

they've only been adding like one or two people and it takes a long time to filter people out because they get seven years. Anyway, the point is seven years of funding. Maybe they, no, I think what happens is they have the people who are like all the rich kids who have to pay and then this is a scholarship for the ones who like can't pay but probably rich kids still get it.

Yeah, that makes sense. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's fair. I mean, I definitely could have looked at this college like beyond the TikTok that I watched. No, who cares? And, well, you know, I just want a fact check and not be a culprit of spreading misinformation.

Good. So basically on this exam, they ask a bunch of these, like, very abstract, intellectual questions. Yeah, I think they're questions that really kind of underpin the world. Humanity. Yeah. Good. Chinks. Good on you.

We're watching Hummedallies. And they're very, like, interrelated. Like, it's different fields. And we thought we would answer some of the psychology questions and see whether Meg, Maddie, and Gemma would get. into Oxford College. Oh, I really think that we would. I think we would as well. Well, we'll have to see, but maybe we should, like,

probably, I should probably just give you guys more of an introduction. Tell everyone how we met. Oh, yeah. Get them familiar before we deep dive. So, Meg, how did we meet? Well, we went to BNG together, but we weren't friends. Yeah, and I think we both thought we hated each other. I remember you told me, like, I thought you hated me.

And I was like, oh, my God, I thought, Jimmy, you hated me. No, I was so intimidated by you. Oh, intimidated. That's probably a better word. Yeah, I was so intimidated by you. Like this is how so many strong friendships died. I thought you hated me at this story. And then last year we, who were?

I didn't even know how. Was it? I don't know. Was it Tenaia or Jasmine maybe? We basically just hung out once. It was here. I remember and I was like, we had a good conversation in this lounge room of the street

that must not be named. And their house and it's beautiful. Is that where it was? And then we just started hanging out now. I sent you a message saying I really enjoyed that conversation. Oh, I remember. this okay we can't actually talk about why what we were doing it up because i really want to know what it is no i know exactly what it was i drove you guys to mac oh that that's oh yeah and then can i tell

the funny story okay so i was hadn't had anything to drink so i drove them to macas it was me and two others and jasmine and erin someone's birthday it was someone's birthday wasn't it yeah it was jasmine's birthday yeah oh that makes sense it was a year ago basically yeah and um so i drove them up to, we got McDonald's and then I drove them up to Mount Ainsie. And there were these two people having sex in a car. And I was driving and Jasmine, I hate to call her out. It wasn't just Jasmine. Where was all of us? All of you guys just really wanted to see them having sex.

We were drive, we were doing this loop like three or four times. It was foggy. The windows were foggy. Windows were foggy, but like I just felt so bad because we kept driving past their car and every time we'd drive past their car, Jasmine or one of you would be like, slow down. Yeah, we throw it down so much. I was at a standstill and you guys were just staring at this car, but that's how we met. Oh, you're going to go back and find the first message.

Well, how about while you do that? Maddie, how did we meet? I think we had chaps at B&G. Yeah. But I think we both did a lot of like extracurricular shit that like overlapped. Bossy? Bossy, yeah. What else?

And you're a very chatty, easy to talk to person. So, yeah, I think you're really easy to start off a friendship with. That's so nice. You're a good podcaster too. Oh, guys, stop it. I found the message. Actually, it wasn't that overwhelming. Like, it wasn't very, like, but I think that's what stemmed our friendship.

Oh, hope the foot down went okay. I don't know what that meant. I was about my ex-housemate. Oh. This satanic being who shall not be named. I can't. Oh, yeah. I can't even, yeah.

Anyway, that's. And what did you say? I said thank you. Had a fun evening with you. Thanks for driving also. And then, yes. This is a really detailed history. We must know.

We don't need to cut it out. If people are listening to this, they want to hear us. But also, Meg and I live together. We do. We do. Yeah. Oh, she's moving your neck closer to me. She's looking it over me.

Should I leave? Or no. Well, funny, I was doing that Centrelink thing last night And it was like, any of your housemates, couples? Like, are you a couple with any of them? And there was like three questions, like, meeting the same thing, but they were like, just wanted to check. Wait, is the census?

CenterLink. Oh, Centrelink. Yeah, and have you participated in activities that you would call yourself a couple? So have you had sex with your housemates? Do you live with them in the same room? Do you share expenses? There was so many questions. about, but we're not a couple, I don't think.

Dude, if that's... No, not since I last check, but I'm definitely open to having a conversation if, you know. If things change. I actually think if that's a definition of a couple, me and Ariana would count as a couple. In sentencing it is. Yeah, me and Ariana would literally count as a couple

because we share expenses, like, sometimes we sleep in the same bed, like, have cuddles, like... Oh. Yeah, they don't have anything, like, with the word, like, sexual in it, so... Maybe, but... Both of us are asexual in their eyes. Okay, anyhow, let's move on. How long are these podcast episodes meant to be?

To be honest, like, I... We've got to just keep going. Well, we can stop it if you guys want. But to be honest, like, I just kind of just talk. And here's the thing, like, it's kind of my podcast. I'm kind of like, if you want to listen to this, you're happy to welcome to listen to this. But it's also more like a diary entry for me where I'm like, the people I bring on are people that are really important in my life at the moment. obviously guys are important to me.

Stop. So it's like, as much as people might get entertainment out of this, they can skip past this if they want. Yeah, it's sort of like a journal thing. Yeah, it's more for me. Like, I know my audience is not massive. Like, it's just more that I get to have these great discussions. It's building.

It's gradually increasing. But yeah, thanks for introducing yourself, guys. So let's answer some of these questions that Maddie found through her TikTok. some of the Oxford College entrance questions. I feel like this is just going to be more of a discussion because I feel like it's really interesting to offer different perspectives and like deep dive into it. Yeah, definitely.

And I think that question is whether it's not really right or wrong. No. Yeah. So please think about it as well. Yeah. Let us know. Send us a message on Instagram if you're woefully offended by anything we've said. Or if you just have an addition.

If you have an addition, if you agree with us. But if you disagree, we don't want to hear it. Yeah. Yeah. Just, I'm just going to block you. Spam. Yeah. Okay, Meg has the first question.

Okay. It is. Is the internet changing the ways in which we think? Good question. That's a very broad question. I think it's obvious it is, but... But then I think it depends, like, how you narrow it down. Because, like, if you think about internet as an isolated concept,

it's also expanded the way we think about things as well. Yeah. globalised like our world but are we are we including like big data and algorithms into this question or are we talking more about like the immense accessibility of information that the internet is facilitated or there's that one example have you watched the social dilemma yeah like you know how like there's like if you are like far left or far right and then you like they if you I don't know how it is if you vote or if you just follow like a lot of like a lot of like there's like if you are like like like like far right politicians, then you get like into this spiral, this like negative

empty back. If you follow like centre right and then it takes you on a rabbit hole to an event for you end up extreme right. And you can never see other views. You can never see other views. So it's like. So it does kind of change the way we think because it's like now I feel like previously opinions were more up for discussion.

Whereas if you spent a lot of time on the internet, especially as we all did last year when we're all like inside our homes, it's actually harder to get a diverse opinion on things and especially like you can kind of cherry pick the information that you want rather than, and also it's so accessible to find evidence for your own opinion whereas previously you had to go read a textbook, you have to go to the library but that's like... Yeah, you were kind of forced to read more diverse sources of information.

Because like I feel like with the internet and like what do you call technology coming on I know like the generations of like 10 year olds now can't think for themselves because they've got phones to search up on Google like when we were 10 we fucking had oh you know you can swear you can swear yeah um we had to go out and like you know make up ideas for ourselves yeah literally we have to think for ourselves and that's actually like I always think about this I'm like are we going to lose our like process of this is a bit I know what I mean like we can just search on Google like get our phone literally in our pocket for like 10 seconds yeah also it reduces how we entertain like our cognitive thinking is going to be like

fuck actually this can all be so summarized in the um you know the boberdam Netflix special yes no I watched it oh is that that's cute no I watched it but I was high so I didn't know I didn't know anything and everything all of the time yes that is oh the one that with the fucking the

the skinny song no the song oh yeah that's the song I showed you yes and I watched it but I was like oh good good looking at it as I was like but I think that's a really good point also make kind of off like what you were saying because there's more accessibility of information as well it means that all these people who previously wouldn't have gone and read textbooks wouldn't have gone and read gone and borrowed books from the library wouldn't have gone to like saloons or like gone into lectures or gone to university now actually have access to information so it changes the way that we think in that

like more people are actually accessing information who previously wouldn't have. That's a good point. But then the downside of that is that the information that they're accessing can sometimes actually lead to reduce cognition because yeah, it's misinformation. That's a completely other point.

Yeah. Oh, Maddie's got a quote. She ran up stairs. Did you hear her? Elephant feet. She's got elephant feet. She was like, go-going. She just sprinted.

Yeah, we didn't get any. I do get criticized by elephant feet around here. All the time. Yes. No, it just reminded me of this book that I'm reading at the moment. It's by Thomas Friedman. Great. Thomas Friedman.

No, no, he's American. Milton, it's a very Jewish name. Oh, yeah, it is, Friedman. I actually know Milton Friedman. I know a guy who lives in Israel. Sexy. But anyway, he kind of talks about the whole concept of the book is that technology is accelerating at a quicker pace than our kind of social ability and the ability of our institutions to address.

adapt to those changes. And the section I was reading just this afternoon, so this is super like, yeah, weird and coincidental, is about social media and the internet and he points out, no, no, no, I'm not going to read, yeah, I'm going to read the entire book.

Sit down, ladies and gentlemen, this is the beginning of my book review. Okay, what's the summary? Okay, some... Meg! Sorry, positive. But with the internet, we don't know

had a deal with rumors, rumors that confirm people's biases are now believed and spread among millions of people. Second, we create our own echo chambers, which we've kind of touched on. Third, online discussions quickly descend into angry mobs. Four, it became really hard to change our opinions because what you post online, you're somewhat wedded to. Yeah, and on a bit of a tangent, like with celebrities and asserting their political views. I feel like there's a bit of a discussion about this and people like, oh, they should stand out for this issue and that not whatnot. But I actually think it's really, really hard to maintain your political integrity

once you stand up for one thing. That's actually... Because you can't change your mind. And, yeah, the internet preserves those thoughts. We actually, humans hate change, though. Like naturally, because change is hard. As in like we all like I think all three of us are very progressive. But it requires new adapters.

Yeah, like change is good and we need it. But also like that actually like the internet kind of like makes us be more stagnant in a way because we like can't change what we think and change is always. I would actually disagree with you because I find that the algorithm just in like my personal growth has actually really adapted to the way that my life has changed. Like previously like when I was in a relationship I get a lot of like I'm just going to use the example of Instagram Reels. like i just because it's on the top of my mind like instagram so the instagram algorithm almost i find

adapts to what my interests are in that it kind of leads into that thing where i get a bit of an epistopic echo chamber because i just put this data in and it just gives it straight back to you think that your echo chamber is is better or more justified because because it's uh but it's not it's like it's like i don't okay so that's interesting so i think that the tictox and the and the Reels that I get a like very spiritual very new age very like that's what you're feeling at the moment yeah very fitness orientated very like I said spirituality but I don't have much political content but it means that if that's the main platform that I consume my news from or my media from obviously I do like read the news and do other things but like it's the main and online platform

I use the only information I'm getting from it is just stuff that like reinforces all the things I already already yeah yeah and I'm I already believe. But where did you get, did you, when that first come up, did you search up, was it you like, I really want to get into like,

no, it's like, so you just one of them would come up, you like it. And then, you know, in a couple weeks, two of them come up.

You like both of those. So it, like, adapts to the way that your mindships, which I find good because it's like, you have to search up in the first place. You know what I mean?

Like, if you've got, so I've come back to camera and it's like a full new thing. And I have to search up like, you know, not what TikTok is, but you know,

like those kind of randomness trans-in-adena. Any idea? You're re-entering society. I'm re-entering the progressive society. Yeah, from far from like rural Victoria. No, I think that it's the thing where it's like you interact with enough posts and like obviously occasionally you're going to like run across one that is like more, it's fine, we're pouring some wine.

You're going to run across one that's more like and you're like, oh that's interesting and then so it builds to you. So it's like both a blessing and a person that the person I want to become is reinforced by the media I'm consuming. But I also see that if I was getting all of my media or my news content from my phone, from my, from Instagram, from Facebook, how quickly it would be just to like slip into one category of thinking. Yeah. And I think it's so insidious that you don't. It's very hard to have the level of self-awareness required to. That's a very good point because the internet can really. Also, don't you think it's interesting in our conversation about the internet, how immediately this conversation became about social media?

because we associate so many of the problems that the internet has produced with social media. But what about the internet more broadly if we look outside of like the social media discussion? Yeah. I think also it's changed the way that we can receive answers. I don't know, it's funny because then I'm immediately going back to social media. Like it's changed the way that we received gratification. So previously if we had a question, if we were seeking knowledge, if we were seeking stimulation, it would take a bit more. but now we pick up our phones, we go on the internet.

It actually makes that cognitive process, like you were saying, make a lot easier, a lot quicker. I also want to say it because I was just thinking with social, like, not just social, the internet or any, like, news or evidence thing on Google or whatever. Like, I think it really favours people who are more self-aware what you were saying, Maddie, and, like, intellectual. Like, if, I know so many people who have different, like, range of skills

and Anna's like, you know, university-educated and stuff, and they, like, they get sucked in really bad. And, like, scammed. Like, that's a bad case in order. You know, like, it really, the internet really, like, I don't know, I just find it's really like, what's the word? Disit, not just, like, it, I don't know what the word is. It kind of, like, people who can get sucked in by, who, depending on who you are, you know,

like, it favours people who are more, like, educated. One of the other question. on this list was, is do internet users have equal equality? Or internet users equal. They're not, no way. And I think, yeah, what you're saying is kind of delving into that. They're not. Also, it depends on what you use the internet for because I feel like it almost replicates

a class structure that exists in real life. Like, if you use the internet for academic purposes, like we would be doing or for research purposes or for work purposes, you know, your experience with the internet, you would probably see it more as a tool. Whereas if you were someone who is getting scammed, if you were someone who perhaps the internet is showing you all the things that you can't be, or, you know, perhaps you're growing up in a rural community or in a poorer community,

like the internet, yeah, it would be beneficial to you, but it might also... It's more just, like, could we just be like a, not entertainment, but, you know, like, you just go on there to... It's addictive. To prove because if you've got nothing else to do. Yeah, in real, you literally, there's nothing to do. So you just literally, what else is there to do? There's no, like, see, you know, life.

So you could say that it's changed the way that we think in that sense because people don't really have to sit with themselves and how they feel anymore. That's such a big thing. Do you ever find that where you're, like, in a bad mood and you're like, Instagram, Facebook? We need to think of our own thoughts. But we all, we can't help. I remember, like, talking to a boss of mine a few years ago, and, I was he was, like, quite a bit older. and he was talking about like breaking up with someone

and then he had to take a really long bus ride back to his place and it was like an hour and a half or two hours on public transport and he had forgotten his headphones. And he was saying, you know, in hindsight, I'm actually really glad that I didn't have my headphones. I guess listening to music on Spotify is not really... It's enabled by the internet. It's a distraction.

It's a distraction. Yeah. I do that all the time. Like how much do we actually, with the creation of the internet and I guess we could make the argument for radio and things like that but now that it's compact it follows you everywhere that we've got mobile phones

and the internet it's like a distraction yeah how often are you alone and has it changed the way we if we like kind of going back to the actual question like has it changed the way that we think like yeah has it made us less resourceful because you know we have Google Maps at our fingertips and obviously there's a lot of dialogue about how it's changed

our attention span It definitely has. Well, that's where I was kind of heading is, like, I was thinking, well, just then, it just came up to me. Like, you know, the reason, when I, like, get really anxious or, like, you overthink things, which is very common these days. Well, maybe that's because, anyway, we won't go there. But, like, is it because, like, if I use, like, the internet and, like, Spotify and music to, like, distract myself? But, like, you know, back in the day, back, you know, 40 years ago, how did people work with their overthinking thoughts?

Like, how do they work with their anxieties? I don't know. I just like, that's like, I just feel that thing. I find it really interesting with the anxiety thing because I think it's kind of ironic that the internet really created a lot of services that should inherently reduce anxiety but have actually exacerbated it. Well, it's like the self, what's the image, the body, you know, body image and things like that. Well, also just like the internet as a means for comparison with anything in your life.

It's like we do kind of keep shifting on to sort of. social media. Like, just the means of comparison. But I actually might make an argument that it actually has improved the way we think because it's increased the possibilities that people feel they have. Yeah, that's a good point. Because it's expanded your worldview. It's back to like the spiral of like, are you, if you're aware of that or if you go down

the case, like, oh, I don't, like, I see that skinny, you know, word of eyes. But anecdotally, like, imagine there's like someone in, you know, like, we've been using this rural example because I feel like that's a real benefit for people who aren't in, like, centers of knowledge of the internet is really useful for them. Imagine, you know, being able to see that, like, university is a possibility and not having to be connected with someone to the university, you know, there are scholarships. Like, it's changed the way we think in that, like, it has expanded our options, but also limited them or narrowed, like honed them in to perhaps specific thing when we think about political opinions, but it's also expanded how we think

and that we see that more things are available to us. But I think at the same time, it's a double-edged sword and that we definitely do realize there's greater possibilities and we're almost overwhelmed with choice but at the same time we realize our utter disposability oh because if you I was wondering when this is going to turn like really

existential I learned that word in French last week I can't say it existential you'll get there but I couldn't I had to search out what it was wait back to Maddie's existential point how disposable we are oh yes because I think that a lot of

a lot of labor can be really, really easily outsourced through software, through the internet now. Whereas previously, that would have been sourced locally. Yeah, but also it's like that's allowed industry to expand and allowed production to expand. Very, that's very capitalist. Yeah, yeah. But if we're thinking about, like, how it's changed the way you think, like I think if you were growing up pre-internet, you being kind of one of the best in your, field in your town, your city, your area, wherever you live, like that was really impressive.

Yeah. Just part of your identity. Impressive and, yeah, but with the internet now, you're so much more aware of, you know, the software developer on the other side of the world who is better than you. Yeah, like it's more international. Yeah. Yeah. I saw, oh, it's not really at all related.

What is? It's like, you know when like countries interfere, this is a whole different. Yeah, no, please, no, talk about. There are so many facets to this question. You know when countries interfere, like, I don't want, like an example of like in the Middle East when like America interfered. You know, like things like that. It's like globalization in that sense is that I don't really know much about this topic, but, you know. Yeah, globalization.

Because there's a question on this exam that was like, is international development aid good? Oh, yeah. I like that kind of was like, because we're being globalised, that's able to happen, but also like... How does it, is it used for manipulation as well? Yeah. Political reasons rather than just humanitarian. Well, I feel like we're going in a rabbit circle. Should we do the next question?

Yeah, I think. Yeah. Okay. Which question do you have made? Wait, who asked that question? Do you want to ask a question, Maddie? Yeah. Oh, actually, I'm like, can I ask one?

Yeah. This one's like a little bit missed. Okay, it's kind of a bit of a change. And it's very... The same thing. Yeah. Okay, who is the most overrated figure in your discipline? Oh, I think you're eager to talk about this.

The reason I ask is, because I- Yeah, I just want to, like, talk shit about the people in my, not like people I know, but, like, in psychology and philosophy, I think is so overrated. Like, okay, firstly, Adam Smith is, like, political economy, like... Okay, I'm going to say she's got it. The wealth of nations. Oh my God.

You know, there is more to political thinking than some white guy who fucking... He's Scottish. He's Scottish. He was white. He was from Glasgow. He was from Calioli or something like that. He's old. Well, no, he's dead.

He's not still alive. 16th century. Yeah, like, I just think that, like, Adam Smith is so overrated, rational thought, so overrated. The emphasis on self-interest, so overrated. And every single course I always learn about it. And I'm just like, really, can we retire the idea that this one person is like the forefather of every single economic and political thought that we've ever held? He's not curzing his hair as well. Oh, lame.

He's like, like, I just, I just feel like we need to have more of a diversity of thinkers. The other one who I really, sorry, I'm just like kind of granting. Can I just say a quote from him, I think. Yeah. All money is a matter of belief. Why is it about money? Am I just thinking? He's an economist.

Fuck money. Honestly. What? Or Matt Yeah, so it makes sense Anyway, what's his second? Well, he has this huge emphasis on self-interest Which I do think is rational

Like to believe But just annoys me I'm sure Maddie you find this as well With like PPE Yeah, no, he's definitely Hammered on Hammered A lot

Yeah The second one is like There are all these Psychologists Who I just like, like John Watson And B.F Skinner An example

Yeah, you know him right? No, I know him from Shellaw in Sherlock. How do you know him from Sherlock Holmes? John Watson. Who's that? He's like Sherlock's comrades. Oh, I have not watched Sherlock Holmes. 221B, they live together.

Oh, that's cute. Yeah, anyway. Is Arthur Conan Doyle an overrated figure in literature? Is that one of the questions? No. No. No. He's the author of Sherlock.

Oh, okay. I'm learning so much. But yeah, there's also like this huge emphasis on like behaviorist, psychologists in the field of psychology and it really shits me because I'm like every course you learn about it it's like yes they understood how like behavior and learning occurred but like can we maybe what's an example okay so um bf skinner did like these boxes with rats in them and he learned that like i haven't learned that yet anymore condition uncondition stimulus it's great but it just gets like overplayed and it just feel like there are so many more creative ideas that have come out in

the last like 100 years or 50 years that are actually being. provide a much better explanation than these experiments and it's like all I also just I think it's that general issue where I'm just like getting very frustrated that in a lot of my university courses they only teach about white male researchers. Well isn't like this is okay this is another thought for my brother but like yeah university is actually quite right wing like do you think so? Yes like the actual this is what he's I don't know I've I've thought about it a bit but like like the actual like it's a it's a huge structure of course it's right wing you know what i mean like the actual it's a what do you mean by right wing though like i think like i think like that i don't know i'm

this is like just random brain thoughts but like the the not the teaching because i'm doing a virus science that obviously is the right wing but like um the actual like teaching style i don't know i'll have to do some more research it's a conservative teaching style yeah it's like yeah and like we're learning about yeah we're literally It's very repetitive and like it's structured. It's so structured. And it's all based on like ideas of like 50, 70, even hundreds of years ago that haven't been corrected,

haven't been changed, even when they've been proven to be incorrect, even when better explanations are offered. And a lot of these people are very like, it's very conservative. They're all very traditional things. I do think the teaching is quite conservative in that I don't think they've adapted to the needs of society in the kind of job market that we're entering because I think that

universities are still somewhat living in the past where people were qualified with a certain skill and they used that skill in their career which really carried them through a lifetime but we're going to have a lot of different careers and in order to stay up to date and be kind of climb the ranks in whichever workforce you're in

it does require lifelong learning and I don't think that universities have adapted to that and I think they're conservative in that sense. But to go back to the original question. Thank you for me. I always bring us back. Sorry. I was like you.

I was like, yes. Of who is an overrated person in your discipline. Like, and I think you all agree with me on this Gemma because we both do PPE. Economics is really, really outdated. Oh my God, yeah. And so they still, it's like my mom was showing me some of her stuff.

It's like rational man, rational economic man. self-interest that's that's it it's very it's very exclusionary find a demand I know that oh god no you're absolutely right and they teach these same models thinking that they've adapted it's like these models were created like 50 years ago I really they can expect a really outdated concept that stands out to me so much in economics is that when it comes to environment there was the kind of traditional response to that was like oh well the free market when when a resource is overused and over consumed, the free market will naturally like redirect us to

other sources of production. It doesn't understand the idea of like exhaustion of a source. Yeah, okay. And you're just kind of sitting there like, well, yes, our coal industry. Yeah, it's like, oh, yeah, interesting. Or the other idea, it's like, oh yeah, if we lose jobs in one place, they'll be created elsewhere. So everything always reaches an equilibrium again. But then you would use that argument in favour of free trade.

Yeah. Yeah. But wait, what do you mean about that? But then I feel like you're using it as a negative argument right now. Well, what I'm saying is that it's not true. Like, especially in isolated industries or in an isolated community like Australia, where they're, like, it suggests that when people lose jobs in one area, new jobs are always created elsewhere. So say we shut down coal plantation. That's like their skill set.

That's what you were saying about their skill set. you know 40, 50 year old skills, they only have like a certain suit. They can't change it. It's incorrect. But we will be able to. Right wing economics is very much like the market fixes everything. Yes. Itself and those new industries, new avenues for disenfranchised people will be forced to open.

And this is where you come to that big cleavage between left and right wing economics because when you get on the left wing it says, no, no, no, you need the government at that point to step in and like offer opportunities for upskilling or re-endings. or re-skilling so that people can have greater labour migration. And so I think a really overrated person in the field of economics would be Gregory Mankew. Gregory, like Gregory Mankew, yeah. I never heard of him before. He wrote, we didn't do macroeconomics in the same year, but he wrote the textbook that I

used for Macro. Oh, yeah. I didn't use a textbook because I was just like this is all pretty simple. Yeah, no, that's fair. I received it for free, definitely not something that I would have paid money for. No. Also, I ask anyone who is also at the A&U, when you watch an economics lecture, watch every single lecture, you will never see a picture of a woman.

Dana. Dana's a lecturer, but I'm saying in the slides, you'll never see a picture of a woman. It's all, like, I don't know, I keep going back to this very feminist critique. It always goes back to gender. know how in economics, in economics, how when they thought of the concept of GDP, they did try to work out how to include

domestic labor into that equation, but they were like, no, it's too hard to measure. So they just didn't do it. We're too intricate. We're too distinct. And they were like, maybe we could ask, like, I don't know, someone who understands this, and they're like, no.

No. We won't ask a women. Their opinion would be too hysterical. It was too dramatic. They won't take their words. They can't even read. Yes. When they're not scientific.

Yeah, exactly. They're just cleaners. The whole, all the academic. Cleaners. In the kitchen. Yeah. Sad. Speaking of which, we probably need to clean the kitchen at something.

Oh, God. No, it's anti-feminist to clean the kitchen. In this room, we are surrounded by the matriarchy. We are. Oh, you really are. There's literally like nude prints in the world. It always comes down to gender. I'm wearing, like, naked woman earrings.

Key message in this. by podcast comes down to gender. I hope you're listening. And it's over our arc. Oh. That's really good. Yeah. Congratulations.

All right. Next question. All right. I asked that question. Maddie, your go. Oh, okay. So there was the... Was it not your go Meg?

No, I had that. No. It is definitely my time. Maddie wants to go. There were a few questions. So we could do the... I did it around in 400. Oh yeah

Oh the Oh no The music one Or the deaf versus blind community Or I feel like we can't really talk on that Because none of us are deaf or blind That's very true We're not we're a third party

Yeah Well that's a question But that's not a question on the list I know exactly what question you're going to ask But is it a question? Question is like can we make commentary on like Things Well the government fucking does

None of them are blind as deaf are they I, you know? Some of them might be. They have advisors. Okay, I thought about that. Okay, I thought about that while. They're not deaf or blind. Yes, what they call.

People that stand on behalf of people. Advocates. I found a good psychology question on the list. There is evidence that people give more to charity when asked by someone wearing a designer label. What should we make of this? What? What you mean?

Like Gucci. Are they like saying that people with, I would immediately jump to you, are they saying that people with designer labels are more trustworthy? You know what I mean? Good. But why are they more trustworthy? Because they're rich. Yeah.

People have this stigma about. And is it like, oh well this rich person is asking me to give money to charity. So they probably give money to charity. And that's an indication of wealth. And I want to seem wealthy. And I want to seem wealthy. Yeah. I want more tax deductions.

Yeah. I think Meg's point is really good. It's like if we see someone wearing nice clothes, we trust them, we believe that they'll be honest at our money. It's like our whole values in Australia and Western society are based on like success and money.

So many aspects are like that kind of concept. I feel like you can extrapolate to so many different aspects of life. It's kind of the same idea that underpins the whole it's not creepy if they're hot. Oh yeah. Or attractive people. do better in job interviews. There was a study in psychology.

I just learned that last week, actually. Yeah, attractive people do better in job interviews. Yeah, no, no, yeah. If you like, you know, video call attractive person, you trust them more because they're attractive. And so a designer label could be seen as attractive, like, more culturally because it's like, yes, an indication of wealth.

So you use such a big thing. You also look well around society. There was this Netflix show that I watched earlier this year called The Serpent, and it was about this guy that, like, murdered a bunch of backpackers in, like, He was hot. What was he? It wasn't that he was hot.

It was that he was a fellow foreigner. And I feel like when you're traveling, you're in that group identity. You are more inclined to trust a fellow foreigner than you are a local person. And they were. But that's actually, I just had thought, apparently in Vietnam in Saigon. This is such a tangent.

No, I'm in Vietnam in Saigon. This is no, in any touristy area in like Southeast Asia or wherever, the touristy area is the one. where people get drinks parked it's not the local area because it's always the tourist area because people like oh they're fucking tourists like we're gonna dumb ass people yeah rich but they're so unaware of the culture around them at the moment but that's interesting because this is such designer clothes like maybe maybe if you've got someone in designer clothes asking you to give money it feels less like they're

begging for money oh oh my god it's less like they don't need it but like oh my god that's so true that means it's like the the rich people always own the business you know i mean they're giving it to someone rich i don't know if makes sense but no i do i do know what you mean i was also going to say it's an idea of in groups and out groups so people who are wearing design i just thought that today people who are wearing like designer labels you form this kind of in group that a you also want to be a part of yeah you want to be a part of that a group you want to be rich yeah it's a whole western society you want to be rich again and a way that you can seem like you're part of the in group is by donating you know so that's

Firstly, like the social pretense of wanting to appear wealthy. But secondly, it's the thing of like, I could be this person if I gave more generously. Like, I'm going to look like this individual if I give more generously. Like a very giving, like, generous. Or if rich people give, I'm going to give and then I'll be wealthy. Like, or, you know, I'll attract me. That's rude, not rude, but it's like the people, it's not the people who are being the, what do you call it, the advocates for these charities.

It's not their fault, but like, like, they're calling on individuals like us who are definitely not rich people. Like, they're billionaires that could donate like 1,000 times that what we could donate. But they call upon, like, individuals like us. You know, you see people in the, you know, like, I don't know, like World Vision in the supermarket in Civic, you know? And they're calling on people like us. Should that be a maximum income. Oh, no, no, okay, I just had a really good idea. Oh, my God.

Okay. another facet, if they're wearing designer labels, it makes the company look more trustworthy because it makes them look more professional. It makes them look like they know how to spend their money more. It makes them look more capable because if their employees or the people who are asking for money look like those that are a symbol of wealth

and a symbol of doing well, you might think, like, are they actually know what they're doing because if this rich person is supporting them, a rich person isn't going to waste their money. But then I would think, like, If I saw someone working for like, I don't know, what's a good, what's a good vision? Yeah, like, and they were wearing designer clothes, I'd be like, wow, fast fashion. Yeah.

Are these clothes made sustainable? I'd actually trust someone who's wearing, like, not, like, who was still clean, but who was wearing, like, ethically made clothes. Yeah. Like, secondhand clothes. Because I'll be, oh, my God, they actually care, like, you know, about fast, not this is about fast fashion. But, you know, about, like, that's still in, in, in, I know, what's a word, like, less, economically developed countries.

I think it's all about appearances and what appearance of the company attracts, like what you're attracted to. What the audience is of the company's advertising. If you want a company that you think is trustworthy or like if you want one that seems ethical, like how do you navigate that in terms of presenting

a brand? What was a question? Sorry. Oh, I completely forgot. What was the question? Sorry, Maddie. We went on a big. No, no, that's fine. It wasn't one that I initiated. kind of flagged to do but then it popped up and I thought oh that's a bit of

psychology it was yes no it was why are we more likely to donate to charity when we're asked by people wearing to try and clothes oh that it does relate to what we're saying and I thought we're one of complete tangent that we are on the right track we've still to do with charity we were kind of yeah but I think that's a really interesting one when was the last time you guys donated to charity I used to do were like monthly they conned me into doing a monthly thing to the wilderness society oh i knew you were going to say the wilderness society they fucking con me and they like i was like they like do five dollars i was like yeah and then he didn't say it was five

dollars more than what i was paying so i paid fifteen dollars and i was like and then i rang up but i had to ring up because i couldn't do it online and then they made you feel mad yes probably i can't and i was like i can't afford it i'm a student like i always use that though because i'm like well i'm a fucking billion i'm a student oh when Darwin went into like the snap lockdown when I was home and the fringe comedy festival that was the week after got kind of preemptively cancelled and they gave you the offer to donate the money from your tickets to charity and my friend bought like $300 by the ticket she was saying and she was like yeah yeah I'll donate it and then a couple of days later her car broke down

Oh no. So she emailed them. Oh, that money back. Fair enough. No. Honestly. You retract my joke. They're like, sorry, like a struggling artist has already spent that.

Yeah. I've decided that I'm really, I want to, self-interest. Yeah. Adam Smith, maybe he's right. Oh, fuck. I remember, the one that really gets me is Doctors Without Borders. I've heard that. Is that many, what do you go?

Many song songs. Yeah. I don't speak French. Yeah, it's, because it's... Medic on Francierge. No, it's Medique Saint-Frontier. Okay. I think.

Medicine on the front. Medici Saint-Frontier. Yeah, that's it. Maddie's like, I don't know. She'll say it in Chinese and I'm not really... Yeah, I'll say it in Russian. You say it in Arabic. She'll say it in Chinese.

We love that. And we can just all show off. I feel like this could really lead well into the other question that was... Oh, yeah. The other question that was... Oh, yeah, but can I just... Yes, yeah, but I just want to say, if you haven't want to donate, you should definitely donate to Doctors Without Borders because their ad campaign videos get me every fucking time. I literally will watch them if I want to.

I know, I know, I know, but... This is the podcast. Okay, sponsor me. Okay, next. I got to make from us. Your question. There was... Or the happy one or not...

Oh, multi. Did, or the multi-legal. Yeah, that one's good. I feel like that could segue well from... Guys, we're only like 36 minutes in. We have heaps of time. Well, we're definitely getting indebted. to all souls.

Wait. All Souls? What's All Souls? This is a college. Oh, Gemma. I don't even know what it's called. I'm obviously not fucking getting in. No, you're not.

Hang on, I need to find it. No, the question was, is... Does multilingualism mean multiple identities? Boom. Boom. And I think, well, I said that because, well, we all speak different languages. Yeah. Definitely being in a different country.

Yeah. Like, you can't take. on like it was French you like take on the accent it's like the whole vibe you need the accent otherwise you can't if you speak French without the accent so why is the accent you're not speaking because it's like you don't like you can't yeah they're snobby you can't if you don't speak the accent you're not for it's like what the fuck is this person doing they're like just we megan like you just say it like nicely that's part of the identity yeah it's part of the identity exactly what was that no but this morning there was actually like 1400

Carol. I'm currently. Oh, there was. Yeah, it was Carlin'am central this morning. Did you mean go? I did, yes. And Jazz was asleep. I was like, surely Jazz is going to wake up. I don't know, there's one there, there's one. There's one. Every, northeast, southwest. Never took a weekbeaks. Anyway. Oh, very good. But I remember when I used to speak,

when I was in Russia, I would, like, my Russian was so Australian. So I'd be like, I would just use, like, I would just say, I would just say, I would just say, like, I, what you meant say is, I'm going to say, but I would say, yeah, but I would say, yeah, Gavarayu, Peruski. Yeah, but you don't know until you go over there, because I went French before I went over,

and I was like, so Australian, but when I went over, I was like, fuck, why am I saying this? So are you both saying that the different identity would come from the different accent? I feel like it's indicative of the different identity you step into when you go to that culture. But language is literally interconnected with identity. I did see you 12, and I stick by it.

How, look, you've got to explain it. Okay, I didn't go that well in English, but I can try to explain it. No, it's just like the words we use, the syntax, the semantics, the meaning behind everything we say. Like, like, Ozzy, it's like, we shorten things and that, that in its way, it's like we say like Smokoe and we say like servo or whatever. And that in its way is like, we're like lazy. We are. We're lazy and we're like, or casual. Yeah, casual and lazy, I think. In a general, like, very generalized stereotypical way. But like, compared to like,

Like, yeah, French, where it's like... Eloquent. Yeah, like, it sounds beautiful. And, like, you... All these, like, you say these sayings, like, these phrases. And because you say these, you know, like metaphors, you sound more, yeah, eloquent, more, like, fancy. And maybe that's a part of...

I feel like it is... You do have different identities. Because it's, like, what you... The language really shows what people value in that culture. And even the way of, like, forming sentences. I also feel like when you step into a different culture and you speak a different language, you start to identify with different people.

And just by inherent nature, you'd start to identify with people of different backgrounds and of different cultural values. Are you okay, Maddie? You're bit uncomfortable. I'm getting bit hot. Oh, me too. We should turn the heater down.

Maddie you're close. We're sitting next to the heater guys. No, but actually, that's a weird example because, like, in the Arab world, it's beauty for women is very big. Like, it's like, well, to be fair, like, there isn't much natural, like, outdoorsy stuff, which was what I would usually be into.

So even like the, when I was over there, I like, obviously, I don't, I actually do like anyone else done and stuff. But I like, I would love them like, like, everyone vibes getting their nails done. Everyone vibes having their hair and makeup really nice. I was like, I can actually do this. And I don't, like, I, in Australia, I love to go in the outdoors. And I love to be, you know, like, all this sporty stuff. Then when I was in the Arab, when I was in Jordan, I was like, oh, I can, like, I can't do that because there's no option to do that.

I'll go to their culture and I'll do my hair. who was a gateway into accessing that. Yeah, I know. It was just like... You feel more immersed in it and therefore you feel more like... Yeah. All right, Maddie actually lived in China for a while,

so let's talk about her to her. So we've all lived in the countries that we speak a language of. So I feel like it's kind of difficult because then when you're back in Australia, I have not spoken Russian to anyone for about a year. It's so hard because the context around you is Australian. Yeah. No one speaks Russian here.

I feel like when I first lived in China and I didn't speak good Chinese at this point, and the job that I had in Guangzhou back in 2017, I was the only foreigner there. And something that I really struggled with linguistically was when people would ask me to do things in Chinese and the requests sound much more direct in Chinese than they do in English because in English we tend.

There's no please or thank you, isn't it? Yeah, you don't use please and thank you as often. And Chinese doesn't have as many, filler one. Oh yes, the fillers like, yeah, yeah, and in English, I think we really, we really, we really, and especially women, we love to hedge our language. Oh, hedging. I'm really sorry, I'm sorry to bother you, but if you have time, could you maybe possibly, please do this, if you got a chance. Rather like, do this. But something I also really thought about. And just on the accent topic quickly with like Chinese, I think it's a whole

different ball game there because it's a tonal language so it's kind of like if you don't have somewhat of a good accent you're completely like you actually don't understood yeah you can't so being adopting the language means that like you do have a different identity because otherwise you can't communicate with people so it's like you have to is it because you can't speak the language without having the accent basically the language or yeah at least having I think I think you have less flexibility with your pronunciation when it's a tonal language. Yeah.

And then you think what do they think? Like, you know what I mean? Like, what do French people mean? Oh, when we speak Aussie French? Like, do they like, what the fuck? Oh, when they hear Australian English, yeah. But I suppose like, they would just think of it. They could understand it, like, what the fuck is this?

But actually, can I say this about what you were saying, like when you go to France or when I was in, like, Russia and, you know, the accent was such a huge part? Perhaps people who are speaking French or people who are speaking Russian who come to Australia are equally, like oh my god I feel like I can't actually get into this culture because the Aussies have such a strange accent that's why I'm so important to travel and like understand that because we all understand like if a French if like a you know

whoever like a international person came to Australia will be like oh that's so like they're speaking English like that's amazing you know but they're like I can't understand Aussies like I often got that was like when I was in Russia like people couldn't understand my English like sometimes even though they spoke English it's English It was American or American. Yeah, that's a big problem. And then I'd be there, like, heavy on the vowels. It's as much as a dialogue.

Interesting. A bit of nasal pronoun. Nasal, yeah. Do you find, because whenever I go back to Queensland, my Australian accent, just like, that's what, like, no, I noticed when my brother went to Queensland when you came back, his accent was so, Queensland. I was like, get out.

Did you notice that when we were in Queensland? Was my accent stronger, or did you not really notice? I didn't notice. Well, you're going to say, Maddie, you had a point. I saw you're opening on my mic. Oh, another thing I wanted... Back down. Yes.

Back down. To the ground. Drop it low. No, another thing that I find really interesting about Chinese, particularly now that we're having a huge conversation about pronouns is that in spoken Chinese, there is no differentiation between men and women. Everyone is Ta. Is that you or is that he or she?

He, she. Oh, really? That is cool. because Arabic is the complete opposite. Yeah, it's everyone is tar. It's only when you write, like, and you want to say tar, blah, blah, blah, as in a woman, that you use a different, you use a female radical. And interestingly, when you use the tar character for a man,

it's not a male radical, it is the person radical. Because man is the default human. And when you say they in Chinese... Wait, is man the default human in Chinese? Or are you talking about... In general. In general. In Chinese, what's the default human?

Is it person? Like, you know what I mean? If you were referring to, like, what's that object over there? So, say it's a chair, would you say that most objects are male? Or it. Or it. Their it. Oh, it's so good.

And Chinese is not gendered, but the it is also tar. Oh, yeah, but a different character. That's a different character. But also, you don't use that word that often in Chinese, because Chinese doesn't, you don't really repeat the subject after it's been mentioned for the first time. So that doesn't really arise. But when you want to say like they and you use the tar character plus the character that indicates like

the plurality, you use the male tar character and something as well, words like jealousy in Chinese, that has a female radical. And I think that's interesting. So back to cultural identity, though, if that shapes the way you think about gender. But English, yeah, that's good. That's actually been research quite like a lot.

It's like the genders of certain nouns. Based on, oh, yeah, how language shapes to your perspective. Because English doesn't have genders, does it? Not really. Like, you say like vehicles are she's. And, you know, like, only that sense. No, but it isn't like, you know, like. Like lamp over there, I'm still going to be a lamp.

It doesn't change. It's not her, you know. Like in Italian, like, lamp might be feminine. Yeah, in French. French, yeah, or like whatever, and I don't know, like the radical or whatever. Yeah. But, like, English doesn't have it, but then English, I feel like every English-speaking country, there's definitely gender issues.

Yeah. But I know, I searched up, what are the matriarchies, I remember this, what are the matriarchies in, like, the world? Yeah. And I can't remember, but there was one in, like, Tibet, the kind of China area. I just remember that. Like, somewhere there, there was, like, a huge matriarchy society. Yeah.

It's one in East Africa as well. Yeah. Yeah, like it's interesting. It'd be really cool as a psych, kind of talking more about psychology, like, and linguistics and the intersection between linguistics and even sociology, like doing a triple discipline on this, on this topic. It's always, like, always, hips of fun, but, like, it would be really, really interesting to think about perspectives on gender and respect around gender and gender hierarchy

based on how language treats it, which kind of comes into cultural identity, like. Oh, yeah, it's so interconnected. Yeah. The language you used is, like we were talking about with the deaf-blind thing, language is primarily your main mode of communication. And it becomes almost unconscious and implicit. So if your language is treating a gender in a certain way, even just in its semantics, how does that translate?

Or where did that come from? Like in Russian, it's like, oh my God, it's just like everything is gendered. Everything is gendered. If I touch an object, it's a female object now. Like they is a, in Arabic. It's they she or they her. But then the distinction between genders is so much stronger. Yeah.

But how would you, if you were like, what's the word, non-binary, like, you couldn't, any other languages, that's just another thing. How would you become, you wouldn't have an identity in another language. Yeah. You're not a, you're not a, you're not like a, or in Chinese, yes, but in Arabic and Russian. You're not, you're not a they. Like, there's no, you can't be that, you can't be, you can't be, you can't.

Yeah, you're either plural or inanimate. That's really hard for our, like, growing world though. growing world though because like how how are people who are non-binary or that is their identity fit in with that cultural background it's very historical language is a very historical you would definitely get into oxford college with that response that was funny list yeah that was so fucking true was it oh my god myself you know it was really interesting i did not even think about that you have to re-listen to this because i forgot oh yeah anytime you need a bit of a positivity i am a genius yeah how don't we just send this to

would and be like here you go what are your thoughts yeah give me like some constructive three PhDs so yeah funded fully yeah yeah one for each of us yeah and I would like to work on I don't know I don't think I would do climate change it's too big what would you okay wait kind of an interstate like a bit of a movement away what would you do your PhD on in if you could in the next five years maybe fires in Australia something to do with bushfires something so it's something local that Yeah, what would you do your PhD on? Or gender?

They're so... Gender, yeah. That's so, it's so hard to narrow down. I think I'm really interested in social media and democracy, but I'm also really interested in, you know, the Australia-China space. Is the Belt and Road a new form of imperialism? I don't know what that means. I would do my PhD on.

false memories and the prevalence of false memories but then I also is there such thing as a true memory no no there is absolutely no there is absolutely no okay don't think much yeah I'm sorry I'm sorry um psychology I could not do my it's just sociology psychology I would just my brain is how is it as a psychology student do you find it hard to navigate the duality of um kind of having that elevated self-awareness of why you think the way that you do and what kind of like thinking traps you're susceptible to and at the same time still being susceptible to them you know what it really sucks because you would think so this is the thing with unconscious processes being aware of them doesn't actually do anything so I have this issue all the time is it like

involuntary yeah it's involuntary absolutely I get stuck in thinking traps all the time like and I know why they occur I know like it's really crazy because I've got into my therapist office and she'll be like and she'll tell you why it happens but you can't but I'm like like I already I already know like she'll be like oh we should do this and I'm like yeah but like the other day she was like we should do DET and I was a dialectical emotional therapy and I was like oh but I know that it has this downside and it's actually not going to work for me because I know that this is an issue with it and actually I didn't have this background so talking about it will actually be worse for me and she's but it's very that's very specific that's like a one-line

thing you know what I mean like every individual is yeah or intrusive thoughts as well and like I know exactly why I'm getting intrusive thoughts I know exactly and all the the process behind it but like I still get them. That is a two-edged sword again. Yeah, it kind of sucks. Yeah. Or like my OCD as well. That's like the whole thing about I always, I think this all the time and I know it's quite like I would say it's not privilege but just like privilege in the fact that I have like we all have quite big brains, you know? Big brains. Big brains. Big brains. Maddie has a tiny head though. So really? I feel like I have a big head. Medium head, I would say.

Mine's pretty big. Yours is big, Gemma, yeah. I was fat head. I don't. My parents used to call me a square. I used to have a square head. My parents used to tease me. Wait, wait, what was the privilege?

Yeah, it's like, would you rather, this is, I don't think this is a very ethical question, so probably wouldn't be on that question, on that board exam. But like, would you rather be, I think I've said this. Oh, my God, we've told about this. Intelligent and have mental health, anxiety issues,

overthinking issues, or dumb, not because you and not even think about it because you're dumb and you won't soften your words Meg. Okay, would you rather be smart and have to deal with like fucked thinking or would you rather be dumb and not have to think about it? But then also if you're dumb you get susceptible to capitalism and you get to, you work for nothing and you work hard for nothing.

No, but that's not true. Yeah, but it's like lots of people. Yes, it is in senses. Yeah, in a sense. In lots of cases, people don't know what's out there. It's getting very good. Her eyes like manic. right now. She's like, they don't know what's out there.

Some people just don't know what's out there. They haven't had that access and they, well they haven't, and they don't know what they can literally like do things. They can do what they want for so much easier. They can have such a good life but they haven't seen it. And like they're working so hard. I don't know. It really depends because like I had this like awful experience at the start of the year. It changes where I'm like, it's so fucked but it's like I know that being an intelligent person means that

like it comes with so much, like the amount of time I'm in my own head. is like absolutely sickening. Sometimes I just wish that I could just like pull out my mind and like put it on a table. So I could just like be this like little figure that just doesn't think about stuff. Does not thinking about stuff necessarily mean that you're not intelligent?

Or is it just that you're better able to silence your thoughts? I don't know. Meditation, baby. Maybe if you just meditate heaps. That means you like, if I didn't, if I didn't even have to think about meditating and my thoughts just like went through. It's just like guys.

I feel like they just don't think. So guys are dumb. Men don't think. Yeah, that's actually, maybe emotionally, the intelligence. I don't know what, like, internal intelligence. Every man I've ever known has been a little bit stupid. Yeah, but they just, like, don't, they don't care. It's more, like, it's not like they don't care in a bad way.

They just don't care. Like, they just, like, let things flow. I don't think that's true, though. I don't think that's true. I don't know, lots of, I don't know. Maybe a lot of, I feel like there are some that I've met who are very, but this is more about, like, anxiousness rather than intelligence, you know? Okay, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, Madie, sorry, Meg, I didn't mean to disagree with you.

No, I think. I think that being of a higher intelligence naturally makes you have a greater degree of existential awareness, which can make you more depressed. But I think that at the same time, I think it also allows you to have maybe richer experiences, form deeper connections. And I think the downside of that is that the things that you feel to perhaps are more heightened extreme in a good way that you might get to feel at an above average level to someone that is like uninclined to thinking in deeper ways.

And you appreciate peace more. At the same time it comes with feeling the lows more acutely. So it just depends whether you want to kind of have consistency in a more plateaued, stable emotional life. But that's like shit because it's all relative, like, if we're happy, it means we've had to have sad times, you know? Absolutely. But, yeah, there was that other question.

Do we, how can we know if we are happy? I might just, might have to move on to that in the next segment. I just have another point. Um, I just feel so bad. Like, why? I wish everyone, like, you know, you just, do you ever feel so bad about like, people like, why aren't they, you know, they could do so many things? I don't know, I just feel like.

You've got built. Yeah, like, I just want everyone to be like a set. Maybe they are happy doing that. Yeah, I know. that's a good point that's a very good point but it's like but it's beautiful. Yeah that's a very good point actually but it's beautiful that you recognize their potential and you're like if I had that potential this is what I would do with it. Yeah but everyone's brains

wide different I suppose maybe they don't want that it's like my cousins yeah I love them to bits but they want very different things to me and I yeah it's a very good point. Yeah I feel like when I was younger I would often be like oh don't they see we are the most I like each individual is their own in most yeah absolutely well thank you all for listening we realized Maddie just realized that we have to go fucking clean up the kitchen. Can we ask the question? Well, we have one more question to leave with you.

Yeah, here's a good question for you. Should we banish the poet? Oh, damn, we didn't let. Who gets, who asked to clean the kitchen? So the first one is, how do you know whether you are happy? Oh, big one. I really wish we'd answered that. Maybe we can do a part two.

Okay, next time. Yeah. Yeah. And then Maddie's funny one is. I already said. it should we banish the poets? Yes. Have a think.

Oh my God. Remember when I was dating my, oh, I know Meg hates that I'm talking about men at the moment, but like, disgusting. Oh my God. Oh my God.

He used to write me poems and I literally want to fucking throw up. It was like, I saw this really funny meme the other day. It was like open to Snapchat expecting it to be a dick pick, but it was a poem, which is somehow so much worse. Yes.

And I was like, I was like, yeah, that's so true. Anyhow, some beautiful questions coming out of this. I hope as you were listening, you kind of got to think about them as well. I think it's a really good, like, kind of mental exercise. Like, we were really in this moment, just

like discussing things, you know, all that worry about, like, whether the internet is, like, fucking with our cognition. But all will be okay. Yeah, if you just answer some of these Oxford questions. No need to overthink. If you ever think, it's okay. Maddie's the existentialist. What? I'm the mediator, and Meg is the passionate one. Like, that's... I'm an Aquarius. I'm an Aquarius. I'm a Pisces, well, water babies. No, isn't Aquarius? Get coaster.

Not water. Aquarius, it's Aquarius. It's like Aquarium. It's an air sign. It's not an aquarium. It's an air sign. It's an air sign. It's an air sign.

It's a water bearer, but we're an air sign. Air sign, yes. No, that is absolutely. Yes. You're telling me that cancer, cancer is a water sign, but Aquarius is not a water sign. Yes, I am. I'll show. Piceyce.

Anyhow. I forgot we were recording. Thank you so much for listening. I hope you enjoyed our beautiful guests. They mean so much to me, and I think they're amazing. So I really appreciate that they came on. Thank you for having us. No, it's okay.

Follow me on LinkedIn. Oh, no. I'll put it in the bio. I'm just kidding. Follow you on Strava? Strava, yes, that's a good one. LinkedIn Strava. And follow me on Instagram at Tony Psychology Podcast.

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On the Look Back at it podcast. From 1979, that was a big moment for me. 84 was big to me. I'm Sam J. And I'm Alex English. Each episode, we pick a year, unpack what went down, and try to make sense of how we survived it.

With our friends, fellow comedians, and favorite authors. Like Mark Lamont Hill on the 80s. 84 was a wild year. It was a wild year. I don't think there's a more important year for black people. Listen to look back at it on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, what's good, y'all?

You're listening to Learn the Hard Way with your favorite therapist and host Kear Games. This space is about black men's experiences, having honest conversations that it's really not safe to have anywhere, but you're having them with a licensed professional who knows what he's doing. How many men carry a suit or armor? It signals to the world that you not to be played with. And just because you have the capability that does not have. mean that you need to. Listen to learn the hard way on the AHA radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. In 2023, Bachelor star Clayton Eckerd was accused of

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As the season continues, Laura Owens finally faces consequences. Listen to Love Trapped podcast on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. This is an IHeart podcast. Guaranteed human.