The Psychology of your 20s - 86. Perfectionism and academic anxiety

Episode Date: May 2, 2023

Perfectionism is on the rise amongst young people, and in this episode we break down exactly what it means to have perfectionist tendencies. We examine the theories of personality, our upbringing, links to OCD and ADHD and what it means for academic performance and anxiety. We also dive into some of the methods for minimising our perfectionism, including visualisation, the 80-20 rule, cognitive behavioural therapy and positive self talk to show how life isn't perfect, so you don't have to be either. Listen now. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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for our psychology. Hello everybody. Welcome back to the show. Welcome back to the podcast. New listeners, old listeners, wherever you are in the world. It is so great to have you back here for another episode. This week, I thought we tackle a subject that I'm sure is really pertinent for a lot of us at the moment, and that is the struggle with perfectionism, particularly as it relates to academic anxiety, but also in so many other realms of our lives. The interesting thing about this topic for me is that perfectionism is often interpreted as a good thing and an overall positive quality. How many of us have wrote that you have strong attention to detail on our resumes or talked about your perfectionist traits in a job interview? it's widely valued and viewed in society as a positive thing, something that we would like to have.

So we don't always second guess its use and what it actually means for our behaviour, particularly for people in their 20s, as is obviously the whole entire purpose of this show. But what does psychology actually say about this trait? What does it actually say about perfectionism? I'm going to spoil some of the research for you all. already, but if you haven't guessed it, perfectionism can be incredibly stifling and restrictive in the pursuit of both our short-term goals, such as finishing an assignment, getting things done, completing the things on our to-do list, but also our longer-term goals, all the way up

to graduating university, choosing a career path, and even creating successful relationships. there are some surprising emotional and mental health consequences that I think aren't spoken about enough when we talk about perfectionism. And more broadly, there are a number of misconceptions about this concept that I think need to be broken down because that colloquial use to describe perfectionism as positive, it really does reinforce some pretty negative behaviours. And in reality, there really isn't much about the fact that. this quality that is healthy. In fact, it's very much a dangerous, maladaptive coping mechanism

for dealing with failure and for dealing with criticism from others. And it's on the rise, particularly amongst young people. As far as our 20s are concerned, the presence of perfectionism is very important to discuss as it relates to a number of our experiences, including our body image. If you listen to the episode on eating disorders or diet culture, you'll already know that people with certain conditions like anorexia are much more likely to be perfectionist compared to the average individual, but also people-pleasing tendencies and the one I really want to focus on today, academic performance and academic anxiety. Most of us in our 20s, I would assume, are in some kind of further study or you have done further study and although it is a slug for most of us

and unenjoyable at times some of us are particularly crippled by the need to meet an exceptional standard of performance to the point that it actually causes paralysis it paralyzes our ability to start things to finish them to feel happy and successful it's like our brain is asking us for one thing, but simultaneously sabotaging our efforts. And it's a very complicated interaction. Interestingly, students who are perfectionists do typically do better in academic environments, but at a massive expense to their overall enjoyment of their studies and their overall well-being. So today, we're going to discuss everything to do with perfectionism from the origins, why some people have it and others don't.

the links to personality and procrastination, how it relates to academic anxiety, and of course, what we can do about it. I think perfectionism sometimes feels like a bit of a mental prison. I'm saying that as a perfectionist myself, but we can really retrain our brains using techniques like the 80-20 method, visualization, positive self-talk to reframe the tasks on our to do list so that they seem manageable and ultimately understand that life is not about being perfect. So for my perfectionists out there, this one is for you. Let's ride this wave together and get to the bottom of the psychology and the science of perfectionism. Perfectionism, it's not the same as having high standards for ourselves or wanting to be the best that we can be. That's probably the biggest misconception

that I want to address straight off the bat because I think this misunderstanding is a massive reason why we often think of this trait as being positive. But in the words of possibly one of my favorite people, Brunei Brown, perfectionism is not the same thing as striving to be your best. Perfectionism is not about healthy achievement and growth. It's actually about shielding or protecting ourselves against blame, against judgment or shame. That is, really at the core of what we're talking about today. But let's get our basics down, Pat, first before we jump in. Perfectionism in psychology is essentially a personality trait in which an individual is driven to appear, to feel, and to be perfect, often at the expense of their

self-esteem. And it's not just perfection as it relates to our grades. It's perfection in all areas of life. Maybe you are a big runner, a big athlete. You can have perfectionist qualities and traits within that domain or when it comes to our body image or how much money we're making or our success. It's all related to this inherent quality. You see, perfectionism, it's not an encouraging voice in our head. It's actually quite a negative and self-critical little creature that convinces us that if we're not achieving unattainable ideals or unrealistic goals, we are a failure. And amongst people who have this trait, their self-worth is often determined by their capacity to reach these incredibly high personal standards and this causes us to push and push until we

either succeed, which is incredibly rare, or we quote unquote, fail and we burn out, resulting in this massive dip in our sense of self-worth and other behaviours like procrastination and even depression and anxiety. So in this way, it is highly maladaptive. Maladaptive being a behaviour that interferes with our ability to perform daily activities because it encompasses so many negative and self-sabotaging aspects like an intense fear of failure, unrealistic standards, only focusing on results and being intensely critical of ourselves. This really fascinating article put it in a great way. Perfectionists are held to this strange double standard in our society,

where they are simultaneously admired for their achievements, whilst also very much criticised and not just by external forces or other people, but by themselves. So they receive all of this praise. externally, but internally they're really struggling. And it's this double standard, especially when it comes to something like academic achievement, which is universally valued in our society, that creates a very difficult cycle based on external reinforcement from society, and then an internal fear of failure, which just perpetuates the behavior. So if you are listening to this

thinking, this is literally describing me, this is me. Let's firstly, dive a bit further into some of the signs or problematic behaviors to look out for. A big one is that you struggle to complete tasks in a timely manner or when they need to be done by. This has strong links to procrastination, which is an aspect of perfectionism will touch on later. But essentially, if you are a perfectionist, it's really hard to start something, to finish something if you don't personally believe that it's perfect. So it's a massive indicator, not that you're lazy, but that actually you set such high standards for yourself that you can't even possibly begin to try and meet them. You might also find it really hard to come back from mistakes and you

ruminate on your failures rather than your successes, which can create a very toxic headspace, incredibly toxic, because if that little voice in your head is always telling you that you've never done well enough, you've never met your standards, it's going to be incredibly hard to view yourself in a positive light, and you might also have a hard time overlooking small mistakes and repeatedly going over your work, redoing your task, until it's perfect. even if it takes hours and hours, hence that maladaptive aspect. You may also feel an immense, almost out of body like pressure to live up to high expectations, both your own and others.

And additionally, you might also be hypersensitive to criticism or rejection. This is why perfectionism and people please. go hand in hand because perfectionists are highly attuned to the expectations of others and they have this intense fear of upsetting or disappointing people like their parents, people they respect, society in general, meaning that they neglect their own needs for the sake of other people. Your identity might also be highly dependent on your accomplishments and you may see yourself as a really driven person, but your failures mean a lot more to you in that they are how you judge your character. So you might admire yourself for being accomplished. Outwardly,

you might seem highly driven, but if someone was to take a look inside your brain, it probably wouldn't be a pretty place to be because every failure to you means the world. Finally, you may also have extremely high standards for others, which can put a lot of pressure on your personal relationships if your friends or your partner can never meet your unattainable expectations, resulting in essentially relationship breakdown. These are obviously just a few, but there are so many niche behaviours that are highly correlated

with individuals who are high in the perfectionist trait, as a psychologist would say, Of course, none of these behaviours are deliberate. Perfectionism, like we mentioned at the very start, is a personality trait, meaning that it and its associated actions or habits are often innate and they have formed unconsciously and beyond our control, which is what makes it such a hard thing to treat. I think it's also interesting to point out here that there is not just one type

of perfectionist, but there are three. And there are two actually very important people we need to stop and acknowledge here, and that is Dr. Paul Hewitt and Dr. Gordon Flett. They are essentially the pioneers of the large majority of research into perfectionism over the last couple of decades. And one thing they found is that, like most traits, perfectionism also exists on a spectrum and it can differ in presentation for different people. The three broadcase. categories of perfectionists that they have discovered, observed, whatever word you'd like to use for it, are socially or social prescribed perfectionists, other oriented perfectionists, and finally, self-oriented perfectionist. So socially prescribed perfectionism,

this occurs in which someone is incredibly self-critical. They feel immense pressure to be the best, and they worry that others are going to reject them, particularly important, respected people in their lives, I'm thinking parents, I'm thinking teachers. Normally, it's perceived external standards, such as academic expectations, that can lead to this version of perfectionism and the accompanying low confidence and anxiety that we often associate with this characteristic.

Perfectionists who are other-oriented, they hold others to particularly high standards. It is very hard to build relationships under these conditions. And it can be really detrimental for social well-being because one slight imperfection in someone else that can cause this perfectionist, this person, to completely shut them out. So it's highly detrimental.

And finally, we have the self-oriented perfectionist. they are very organized. They are very conscientious. They are very type A. They set high standards for themselves in their lives and their careers, but they are also able to go after their goals. So high self-oriented perfectionism, it's generally associated with the most adaptive traits correlated with things like greater productivity, success, assertiveness, great focus. These people, they show, I guess, higher rates of the positive emotions and the motivation and the successes that we sometimes associate with perfectionism. Now, I don't personally believe there is a healthy version of perfectionism, but if there was to be one,

it would be those who are self-oriented. You know, their relationships are not under scrutiny. And most of the time, those who fall into this category, they're not behaving in a way that's looking to fulfill someone else's expectations, but their own. However, there is a caveat, because regardless of what category you sit in, you're still going to exhibit those core characteristics,

like a fear of failure, placing incredible pressure on yourself or others, and you're still at a risk of burnout and anxiety. So now that we have a grasp on the basics, what are the exact origins of perfectionism? Well, according to psychology, the major ones are societal or familial factors, including early childhood experiences. That one always seems to be the culprit, but also things like personality. and self-concept, and finally, comorbid conditions like ADHD or OCD. First off, our upbringing. This is going to play a large role in whether you are someone who exhibits perfectionist traits or not,

particularly if you had parents or caregivers who had really high standards for you, particularly academic standards, this has passed on to you as you learn to, internalize their expectations, especially if their expectations were reinforced by punishment or variable reward because their beliefs are being reinforced by something you're either wishing to avoid or wanting to obtain. We've spoken about this before, I think many times, but we know that young children, they have a really strong desire to please their caregivers because they are the source of our security, the source of our support, and to an extent, our self-esteem. It's all drawn from our parents, as Freud would say. And I think further to that, children are

incredibly vulnerable. And they're also learning the ways of the world. And their main point of reference on what is correct is from their parents. So if your parents convince you that perfectionism is what is expected, you have no other point of reference to either confirm or deny this standard. And if an adult tells a small child that they are a failure, that they're not working hard enough, they're not smart enough, they're not talented, that child will internalize this message and they will believe that it's true and continue to find evidence to support this point of view and continue to try and also find a way to prove it wrong. It's this weird catch-22 in which we still believe that we are failures, but we work so hard to prove ourselves

wrong. An additional link is that perfectionism can also be learned by children who are growing up around really highly successful perfectionist parents. If your parent is an incredibly successful athlete. Maybe they were really academically talented and they tell you that they're a CEO, they're doing great things. We model this behavior and this expectation and we implicitly look to be that way as well. Perfectionism is also encouraged when children are exclusively praised for their achievements rather than for their inherent value or their efforts or their progress. There is a scene in The Help. I know it's a strange caveat, strange tangent, but there's this scene where Abelene Viola Davis's character tells this young girl that she is kind, that she is smart, that she is important.

And those are incredibly powerful affirmations to tell a child because they're about their core inherent value rather than about what they can achieve, rather than about their grades. or how beautiful they are or how perfect they are. Our innate self-concept and our personality is, of course, another factor. Personality, it's otherwise known as temperament, and it's something that we are born with, and perfectionism is, after all, a part of that, because it's a personality trait. Of course, there are environmental factors,

but you would be surprised how much of it is contained in our DNA. It's the age-old debate of nature versus, nurture. And I think when it comes to perfectionism, it really is a mix of both. Finally, we did discuss this before, but there are certain mental health conditions that have a really strong cause of relationship with perfectionism, in particular, OCD and ADHD. Perfectionism, it's actually one of the most common cognitive distortions reported in adults with ADHD. So there have been studies that have shown a strong correlation between perfectionism and impulsivity, which is another symptom of ADHD. And together, they form somewhat of a negative feedback loop in which someone

with ADHD will set impossible standards. They will fail to meet them and make rash decisions out of frustration. And these decisions often further reinforce not only this pattern of behavior, but this idea that they're a failure, which is really sad. It's incredibly sad, but it shows how much of our brain really has something to do with this. I think the link between perfectionism and OCD is a little bit more obvious. Research has repeatedly shown that people with perfectionism, tendencies are much more likely to have OCD and the explanation that they give is that they're probably linked to an imbalance of certain chemicals or neurotransmitters in the brain like dopamine and gluten-mate which is why our brain can't really regulate our behaviors and has all these

weird structures around control and needing to control an outcome and needing the outcome to be perfect or to a certain standard. But I'm going to stop dilly-dallying. What I really want to talk about now is how perfectionism and academic anxiety or performance interact. There have been so many studies on this. When I tell you that, it's unbelievable and it's even coined its own term. It's called academic perfectionism. One study by the National Institute of Health found

that people with high perfectionistic worries experienced increased feelings of hopelessness and a lack of control in the face of their almost uncontrollable pursuit of perfectionism resulting in paralysis and lower academic performance. Now when I say paralysis, it's not that they were physically paralyzed, it's that their brain almost couldn't convince them to perform an activity unless they knew it was perfect. And that makes a lot of sense, right? If you are severely concerned with your performance, it makes it really hard to focus because nothing can be just good enough. Sometimes it needs to be good enough, but you won't allow yourself to do that. You need it to be perfect, which is, quite frankly, I think, impossible. So what happens is they find themselves completely stuck.

or redoing something over and over again until it reaches their standard, perhaps days after the, you know, if it's an essay or if it's an activity or a task, is even due. And it's been repeatedly acknowledged in a lot of literature lately that perfectionism, particularly amongst 15 to 24 year olds, is on the rise. And what are most people doing between those ages? well, they're studying. And I think this rise in academic perfectionism and anxiety really comes down to the immense amount of cultural and societal pressure

that's been placed on us to be the best. You know, the world these days is so focused on competition and success and that really fuels social comparison and the pursuit of perfect grades and academic achievement. And this has a lot of bleed-on effects to young people, particularly when they're in their prime and formative years and also undertaking some form of study. If we are only looking at grades and grades alone, we might be confused into thinking that perfectionism is a positive quality, which we know it's not. We've debunked that already,

but in some ways, academic perfectionism, it is positively correlated with academic performance. but it's also negatively correlated with overall well-being. So people with this quality, with this trait, they may be doing well on the outside. Everything looks great. But internally, the pressure they place on themselves is an immense burden that eats into their mental health, eats into their relationships, their free time, their overall well-being. And what's really interesting about some of these studies is that most students who had perfectionism were actually telling the researchers that they were performing really poorly or that they weren't getting good grades or that they weren't academically gifted when objectively they were, but when they were asked to rate that quality or their performance themselves, they still didn't see themselves as good enough. And that's the catch-22 of academic perfectionism and perfectionism in general.

Nothing is ever going to be good enough. Our status quo is to view ourselves by our failures. Now I promised I'd talk about procrastination because it is an essential component of perfectionism, especially as it relates to academic anxiety. Procrastination, really it's about putting things off, not because we're not capable. but because we don't feel mentally prepared to perform or complete the task. And what this sometimes comes down to is self-criticism. And of course, the main culprit, perfectionism.

We become overwhelmed by the idea that what we produce won't be perfect. And therefore, we habitually avoid even starting it or doing it. The mentality is basically, I'm not going to do something unless, it's perfect, so I cannot even start. And I remember a discussion I had with a friend of mine back when we were at university together. She was one of these people who would leave essays to the last minute. She would always be requesting extensions. I'd sit down in the library with her for hours and then realize by the time we'd left

that she hadn't even begun the essay we were planning to finish that day and God love her. She is one of the sweetest people on this planet. But she said something to me that really made me rethink what I now know were her perfectionist tendencies, and that is that if she never tried, she couldn't fail. She was so absorbed in being perfect and her self-esteem was already weakened by this habit that she became paralyzed by her standards and she couldn't even attempt the thing that she was fearing. It's not just our grades and our academic performance where this is, is a problem, but a lot of other areas that are pertinent to our 20s, like applying for graduate

jobs, making life choices such as where to go to university, where to live, even super minor questions and decisions because we get so caught up in this idea of this needs to be perfect. This needs to be the right decision. I cannot make a mistake. I cannot somehow put myself on a path towards failure. and when you are in this mentality, when you are stuck in a rut, it can be so crushing. The truth is, you can never be perfect. Sorry to burst your bubble, but that's just, I guess, reality.

And something I think we all learn as we get older, but how can we integrate this understanding into our everyday behavior and move past our perfectionist tendencies? It's not a deaf sentence, it's not a live sentence. There are things that we can do. So all of that and more in just a second. 2%. That is the number of people who take the stairs when there is also an escalator available. I'm Michael Easter.

And on my podcast, 2%, I break down the science of mental toughness, fitness, and building resilience in our strange modern world. I'll be speaking with writers, researchers, and other health and fitness experts, and more, to look past the impractical and way too complex pseudoscience that dominates the wellness industry. We really believe that seed oils were inherently inflammatory. We got it wrong. Many of the problems that we are freaked out about in the world are the result of stress. Put yourself through some hardships, and you will come out on the other side a happier, you're more fulfilled, healthier person.

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I mean, at this point, Mark, this is the second episode where we've discussed crack, so I'm starting to see that there's a through line. We also have AIDS on the table right now, so. Thank you finishing that sentence. Yes. I don't think there's a more important year. for black people. Really? Yeah. For me, it's one of the most important years for black people

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mental health field and conversations with so many incredible guests. I'm talking Tripp Fontaine, Ryan Clark. Sometimes when we're in the pursuit of the thing, we get so wrapped up in the chase that we don't realize that we are in possession of the thing and we're still chasing it and we don't know when we've done enough. Because people scoreboard watch. Life becomes about wins and losses. Steve Burns, Dustin Ross, because you find it important to be a good person while you hear on earth or are you a good person because you're afraid?

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I doctored the test ones. It took an army of internet detectives to crack the case. I wanted people to be able to see what their tax dollars were being used for. Sunlight's the greatest disinfected. They would uncover a disturbing pattern. Two more men who'd been through the same thing. Gregalespian and Michael Marantini. My mind was blown.

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podcasts. I've said it once. I'm going to say it again. Life is not about being perfect. And if you go through life believing that it is, Your happiness is always going to rest on your next failure, and I can assure you that there will be many, many in our 20s, many in our 30s, many in our entire lives. So we need to learn how to either live with that reality or manage our perfectionism in a sustainable manner. And I personally would choose the latter. There is a hard truth to swallow, though.

This isn't going to be easy. if our assumptions about the origins of perfectionism are correct in that it is derived from our upbringing and internal unconscious elements of our personality and character these are hard things to change you cannot go back to your childhood and change how your parents spoke to you you cannot reach into your brain and rearrange what it looks like in there but it's not impossible and i do think the benefits definitely, definitely outweigh the effort. Imagine what it's going to be like to do something and just be happy with it rather than fighting the urge to repeatedly go back and fix things or stress for days about whether what you did was perfect. It's really liberating to let go of some of that anxiety

and some of that stress. And there are a few incredible methods that I would personally use for this. I do use for this. I'm definitely someone with perfectionist tendencies, even when making these episodes. I'm just going to break the fourth wall here, but I find it so hard to relinquish control. And if something isn't exactly how I want it to be, if someone says something about how my voice was annoying, or I pronounce something wrong, I spend like days thinking over it and wanting to change like this one small thing that like either no one notices or like one to two people. But I think it got a lot easier for me when I realized that that it's just how my brain operates, but also that I can control my cognitions and my interpretation and my perspective of these events. A practice that I've

adopted is the 80-20 rule. Now, I don't know where I heard this for the first time, but since hearing about it, it is a massive part of my life. And I googled it because I was like, is this a big thing that I just have never, like I've heard of it once and I've never gone back? But no, it actually typically refers to the idea that 80% of our results come from only 20% of our efforts. I think it's called like the parado rule or something like that. But how I like to think of it is that an outcome in which 80% is perfect and the other 20% is okay or average. is still a good outcome if it saves me time and it saves me anxiety. Striving for 80% on a test or getting 80% of your daily tasks done,

it's better than 0% if we let ourselves be, you know, paralyzed. And that other 20% is negligent. It doesn't matter. And I think this idea allows our brain to compromise with itself. We don't need to, you know, entirely give up our standards. but when they are coming at the expense of important things in life like balance, like friendship and the time to actually enjoy the good, joyful things, we should be okay with adjusting our expectations slightly.

So I always say to myself, 80-20 rule. 80-20 rule, it's okay if 80% of it is perfect, and 20% of it is not exactly how you would like it, but it's still got done. Another defining feature of perfectionism, particularly when it comes to academic perfectionism and academic anxiety, is this unhealthy focus on our failures compared to our successes. This is what we call a compulsive preoccupation, and when we only think about the times that we haven't met our goals or we have quote unquote failed, it can really lead to a distorted self-image. A friend of mine told me about an incredible strategy the other day called Grab the Bullet Visualization.

I don't know if this is a real thing, but the way she explained it to me was so powerful that I had to share it. I was sitting down with her I was just talking about something that had happened. It was this tiny mistake and I was obsessing over it. I had this compulsive preoccupation and I couldn't get over it. And she said to me, the idea that you need to think of, the visualisation, that you need to have is that life is going to throw us a lot of obstacles or so-called bullets.

And bullets are fast. But when we slow down, we can effortlessly grab the bullet, grab the failure and throw it aside. Failure is the bullet. Slow down, take it in, learn the lesson, and imagine yourself picking this tiny bullet from the air, not letting it hit you, and throwing it away. You don't need to keep it. That's what we need to do with failure. Imagine yourself grabbing failure, in this case a bullet so that we can visualize it in the air, examining it for a second, learning the lesson, and then being done with it. And visualization, not just this exercise, but many other types, is a fantastic psychological technique for

refocusing our thoughts to be productive by imagining them in a new context or as manageable. So if you are a perfectionist, it can be really good to visualize your problem, especially as something that's a little bit ridiculous or imaginative. Positive self-talk is also such an important part of our toolkit. And this really goes for everyone, even those who aren't struggling with perfectionism or academic anxiety. It's essential, I think, for successfully managing failure and minimizing the impact that our unattainable standards have on our self-respect, have on our self-esteem, have on our well-being. We are no strangers to this idea on the podcast. We talked about it recently,

actually, in our episode on the psychology of Lucky Girl Syndrome. If you listen to that, you'll be familiar. But positive self-talk, it comes from this discipline, I guess, sub-discipline of psychology called positive psychology. And it involves cultivating an internal dialogue that makes you feel good about yourself. Using phrases like, I am more than my accomplishments. I am an interesting person. I am valuable. I am confident.

My future is not defined by my failures. And treating these like mantras that you repeat every day or when things get tough or you face a setback can be life-changing. Remember, the way that we speak to ourselves will impact our behaviour and will impact our perspective. I think it also goes without saying this is a psychology podcast after all, but therapy can do wonders, especially if you get a psychologist that specialises in cognitive behavioural therapy, otherwise known as CBT. Perfectionism is, after all, a thought pattern. It's a trait that influences our behaviors, our thought patterns, and therefore how we view our problems and our failures and our successes. But if you go back to the root

cause, that being our cognitions, and alter it to something more positive, the flow on effects can be really powerful. So the whole premise of CBT is that our behaviors influenced by our thoughts, if we change our thoughts, if we break them down, if we rationalize them, then our behavior will change and we will get the positive outcomes that we want. So I would really recommend it, especially if you are a perfectionist who is particularly worried about academic anxiety or anxiety really in any part of your life. Try and find a therapist who specializes in CBT. It will take time, but like I said before, you will begin to feel so liberated. These problems will not be problems for you anymore.

You won't feel that pressure to be perfect. And I think the world just becomes a lot more enjoyable. Here is your final reminder of the day. You do not need to be perfect. We are facing this changing society in which everyone is so concerned with success, with wealth, with perfect grades, with impressive resumes, and it doesn't have to be that way.

You're allowed to sometimes fail. Nothing in life is perfect. Love isn't perfect. Nature isn't perfect. Music isn't perfect. Art isn't perfect. And you are just as beautiful and complex as those things. So you're allowed to have some flaws.

It just brings texture to your life. It makes us much more interesting. I think also mistakes and failures. and flaws, they build character, they teach us incredible lessons. And it's about really thinking about is my life worth completely killing myself for an academic outcome, for a particular grade, for something to be flawless? I don't think it is. Life is not made up of those things, you know, especially if you're someone in university or even high school right now. I know, I know there's a of people under the age of 20 who listen to this. I promise you that your grades are not going to

matter in five years, probably not even two. Like, I do not remember what I got on any of my courses when I was at university. I don't remember, you know, a test result that was only worth 20% of one of my subjects. Like, those things don't matter to me anymore. When I think back to that time, what I do remember is the amazing friends that I met. I do remember. I do. remember all the cool opportunities that I had to do exciting things, to do things that had nothing to do with academic results. And I do just think that's a worthwhile reminder. Sometimes we need to hear it. I know that if you are a perfectionist, it's a lot harder because it can be so innate. But I would really encourage you to think about some of the other

options. Think about how you can overcome this obstacle and view life as imperfect. Thank you so much for listening to today's episode. I hope you enjoyed it. I hope you learned something for all of my people out there who are currently still in uni, still in school, still slugging your way. Big congratulations. I do not think I could go back and do another exam or write another essay. It would just be, oh my God, awful.

So especially if you're dealing with a bit of academic anxiety, hopefully this provided you with an explanation as to why and some of the next steps or if you are procrastinating a lot, perfectionism is one explanation. So I hope it gave you something to think about. I really enjoyed making this episode. If there is a particular subject or idea or topic that you would like me to cover, please follow me at That Psychology Podcast on Instagram. I love taking episode suggestions. I love when you guys do my job for me and give me my ideas. So please follow me over there. If you would like to do so, send me a message.

I would love to hear from you. And as always, if you enjoyed this episode, if you think that you have a friend or a family member or a work colleague, anyone in your life who needs to hear this, share it with them. You could change their day. You could change their month. You could change their life. Maybe not.

But share it along. And as always, if you feel cold to do so, leave a five-star review on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, wherever you're listening right now. It helps the show to grow. It helps to reach new people. And it also just makes my day. It makes me so happy to hear your incredibly positive reviews. I do read them all. And sometimes I get a little bit teary.

So if you want to see me cry, that's the easiest way to do so. As always, we will be back on Friday for another episode. See you then. 2%. That's the number of people who take the stairs when there is also an escalator available. I'm Michael Easter. I'm on my podcast, 2%. I break down the science of mental toughness, fitness, and building resilience in our strange modern world. Put yourself through some hardships and you will come out on the other side a happier, more fulfilled, healthier person. Listen to 2%. That's TWA% on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever

you get your podcasts. On The Look Back at it podcast. From 1979, that was a big moment for me. 84 was big to me. I'm Sam Jay. And I'm Alex English. Each episode, we pick a year, unpack what went down, and try to make sense of how we survived it.

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