The Questlove Show - Arthur Baker

Episode Date: December 31, 2025

Arthur Baker, a pioneer of Dance, Electro, and Hip-Hop, sits down in studio with Questlove for an episode years in the making. The conversation traces key milestones from Arthur’s new memoir, Looking for the Perfect Beat: Remixing and Reshaping Hip-Hop, Rock and Rhythms, as he details his role in “Planet Rock,” the early days of New Edition, and his evolution from a music-obsessed DJ in Boston to one of the most groundbreaking producers and remixers in 1980s New York City. It’s the perfect Questlove Show conversation to close out 2025—and yes, there will be a Part 2 coming soon.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care what I'm saying. Yep, that's me. Clifford Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, my basketball and college football journey, or my career in sports media.

Well, now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifers Show. This is a place for raw, unfills of conversations with athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. So let's get to it. Listen to the Clivert Show on the I-Hard Radio app,

Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok podcast network on TikTok. This week on the Sports Slice podcast, it's all about the NFL draft. And we've got a special guest. The director of the NFL's East West Shrine Bowl, Eric Galco, joins the Sports Slice podcast to break down what really matters when evaluating draft prospects. From hidden traits teams look for to the biggest mistakes franchises make to the players flying under the radar. This is the insight you won't hear anywhere else. If you want to understand the draft like an insider, you don't want to miss this episode.

Listen to the Sports Slice Podcast on the Iheart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more, follow Timbo Slica Life 12 and TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok. In 2023, Bachelor star Clayton Eckerd was accused of fathering twins. But the pregnancy appeared to be a hoax. You doctored this particular test twice, Ms. Owens, correct? I doctored the test ones. It took an army of internet detectives to. to uncover a disturbing pattern.

Two more men who'd been through the same thing. Greg Gillespie and Michael Mancini. My mind was blown. I'm Stephanie Young. This is Love Trapped. Laura, Scottsdale Police. As the season continues, Laura Owens finally faces consequences. Listen to Love Trapped podcast on the Iheart radio app,

Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. When a group of women discover they've all dated the same prolific con artist, They take matters into their own hands. I vowed I will be his last target. He is not going to get away with this. He's going to get what he deserves. We always say that trust your girlfriends. Listen to the girlfriends.

Trust me, babe. On the IHartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. What's up, everyone? I'm Ego Wood. My next guest, it's Will Ferrell. My dad gave me the best. advice ever. He goes, just give it a shot. But if you ever reach a point where you're banging your head against the wall and it doesn't feel fun anymore, it's okay to quit. If you saw it written

down, it would not be an inspiration. It would not be on a calendar of, you know, the cat. Just hang in there. Yeah. It would not be. Right. It wouldn't be that. There's a lot of luck. Listen to thanks, Dad, on the IHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Questlove show is a production of I Heart Radio. I have general, no small talking before the podcast. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I totally agree. That's why I'm doing so many questions to ask you already.

I've been doing a podcast. You were the first person I knew with the podcast. Really? Yeah, who else was doing it? In the music, Phil? Oh, we're keeping that. Okay. Is it rolling, Bob?

It's always rolling. Yeah, no, that's a, you got to keep it always and record. Ladies and gentlemen, this is the Questlove show. I know there's a lot of, this has been a long time coming quotes that you hear for me when I do the intro of the show. But this is the longest of the long timers. Like, you know, this should have been episode five, episode six instead of episode five thousand. I don't even know where we are right now. So our guest today is a legendary producer, remixer, arranger, label owner, I would say still DJ,

pioneer of what I call electro-hip-hop culture. I'll say that some of the earliest experiments with hip-hop and R&B comes courtesy of our guest today. I believe for most of us the first time we ever heard an 808 drum machine comes courtesy of our guest today. Definitely one of the earlier pioneers of new technology in the studio. More than that, I can even say that his innovations have probably helped bring forth different genres that we have under the hip-hop umbrella. For instance, I wouldn't hesitate to say that hearing his music probably inspired the burgeoning Miami-based culture, machine, which then, of course, turned into Atlanta rap, which to this day, the 808 is still their weapon of choice.

We can even say that freestyle music. We're going to get into all that, but, you know, just name them. I mean, Africa has been bottled and the sole sign of force, Planet Patrol, Rockers Revenge, I owe you freeze, new edition. I cannot wait to start talking about Sun City, his work with Al Green, countless of remixes with Cindy Laufer, Springsteen, Holmber, Springsteen, whole. Hall of Notes, Diana Ross, new order. Bob Dylan, the list goes on and on and on.

He's just released his memoir called Looking for the Perfect Beat. What can I say? We finally, after all this time, have the one and only, Arthur Baker, on the Questlove. Now it's on the Questlove show. Oh, I didn't know if you want to get to me. No, no, no. You already know. If it's 19 minutes, then, you know.

Yeah, no. Thanks for that intro, man. I'm like, who's that guy? He's talking about it. Well, the thing is, is that I'd always wanted you on the show because you breathe rare air because, in my opinion, not only do you have your foot in hip-hop's, really laying the foundation in the red carpet for just all the ideas and stuff that we do now to this day. But you're also, you have another foot in sort of the. I won't say the bygone era, but it's sort of a... No, but, I mean, there's an era of...

Even before the idea of, like, what we call a remix. In my opinion, like, remixing... I'll give you a great example. So Prince would often do this thing where he would remix and reshape his 12-inch mixes to be different than that of what the album version was. But before remixing, there was edit culture. And I'm talking about, like,

You know, shit, bedet bone, jelly bean, Benita. Sort of like the Latin rascals. Yeah, yeah. Even the guys in the 70s, Dave McCusoe, Franky Nichols, Tom Holtons. Like, there's edit culture that we don't even talk about, like, as far as, like, the earliest stages of disco. So I feel like you have your foot in both areas. And so I think it's, this is extremely, extremely, extremely important. So I will start with letting you speak after 19 minutes of an intro.

What was your first creative project? was probably scribbling on walls, but it wasn't graffiti. No, in my house, I would draw on the walls. I just remembered that because that was my first. But then in music, I played clarinet and saxophone, horrible. But it got me into early jazz in my head. You know, my dad was a big Nat King Cole fan. So at home, we were hearing Frank Sinatra and Nat King Cole at five, six years old.

So I did, I was exposed to that, which was. You know, it's weird, because you are so associated with technology as the adoid drum machine, I never once thought to even ask myself, is Arthur an actual musician? Like in my mind... Well, I'm not, but I attempted. Yeah, but I mean, you have some sort of, you know where CD, EF, G, A, B, C is. Yeah, you know, the notes. I do write songs.

Right, exactly. But, you know, I mean, I can write songs without playing them. Got it. What was your first musical memory in life? Really, twofold. One was going to Temple on Holy Days, I'm Jewish, and hearing the choir and hearing these Psalms, one of which was Alveno Malkano, which I eventually recorded with Maguai,

like 50 years after hearing it in Temple when I was like five. Really? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Was the inspiration behind that just like... I thought it was a beautiful song, and I thought that they would do a great job in it. But I mean, the first music I heard live would be in Temple. The first music I heard on the radio was, like, when I was eight,

I remember hearing Pretty Woman, Roy Orbison, and all the Motown stuff, and the Beatles, of course. I was born in 55. So by the time, 63, 64, those were the songs I was hearing, you know? To you, was it just a natural thing? Like, water and bread, like, of course. Like, you don't miss bread until you do, like, your first anti-your-kid diet. The no-carb diet.

Yeah, I'm not good with that. You're willing to kill somebody for some bread. But, I mean, I will acknowledge, like, in the summer of 88, even at 16, and I'll say the summer 88 is probably the onslaught, the deluge of classic, this is changing my life, hip-hop. Like, never heard this before. And then two weeks later, this comes out. And then a month later, this comes up. It was the 72 around then.

All the Philly stuff. All the Motown. The Puppa was a Rolling Stone. Norman Woodfield. Would you, like, look at the radio, like, how the hell is this happening? Or did you notice that something's different than... I did. I tell the story in the book, but I was driving to school in 1972.

I had a driver's license driving to school. Puppa was a Rolling Stone came on. The bass... I just pulled over the side and listened to the entire thing because I was like, what is this record, you know? Between Papa was the Rolling Stone and a song like masterpiece. Yeah. And, you know, the temptations that have spoken on this.

Like, were you wondering at what point are they going to sing the song actually like... Yeah, well, that's why I was waiting. That's why I was waiting. No, because it was just a bass line. I'm like, wow. You know, because I was a fan, I mean, Sly, which... You're very familiar with. His things were, I mean, pack it all in three minutes.

Yeah, they were, you know, the vocal would come in right from the top. And this was sort of Norman Whitfield taking what Sly had done and sort of stretching it out and adding Philly. I think it was Philly and Sly became that music, or even Isaac Hayes. So basically, there are all these things colliding at that time. You know, obviously you have to, it all goes back to Sly because he literally, created what Norman Woodfield heard, and then I think one of the temptations brought the Sly record to Norman Whitfield. He was like, oh, yeah, this is what we need to sound like, yeah, which was, I didn't know that until many years later, of course. But no, I loved rock music and I loved

whatever you wanted to call it, R&B, it was going into being disco, you know, so disco, because of the drums and just sort of the extended versions, I mean, even before there was a disco 12, Norman Whitfield, I just played last night when I DJ, you plus me equal love in harmony. That is one of the best songs ever, it's like 13 minutes long. The solos in that, Dennis Coffee, they're all on that record. People, and, you know, that was like pre-reli-reli-remixt 12-inch records, you know. Shout out to Takaboon. Yeah. Amazing record. Shaka's sister. Amazing record. All right. So besides the Tavares brothers and Donna Summer, I'm I'm of age where, like, new edition, were idols.

All my Boston stories that I know come from Black Axe. Right. I mean, even Gangstar or even the Almighty R. Yeah, yeah. There were rock bands. But, yeah, I was going to say, like, as far as like Arrowsmith, the Afternoon Delights. Jay Giles? Well, listen, check it out.

Aerosmith and Jay Giles, both are rock groups that sort of had beats that became hip-up tracks. Exactly. And the thing was, fast-forwarding, but when I first met Bambada, a few years, later, that's what bonded us because he was playing rock beats too. And these were bands I grew up with Aerosmith and Jay Giles were the two biggest Boston bands of the cars in Boston. And, you know, that came later. I was going to say, so my camaraderie with little Stephen is, I've been on the Rock

and Roll Hall of Fame Committee for a decade and a bucking some change. And every meeting, you don't know how hard. little Stephen is in terms of campaigning for Jay Giles to get in the rock and roll hall at fame. Peter Peter is a really good friend of this and they deserve. No, he definitely

deserve it. They deserve it. I have to say, I look at some of the bands who aren't in there. Little feet? Little feet, come on, man. I mean, I'm telling you, it's people always ask me all the time like, what are you? And it's just, it's 40 people having whatever, the 12 Angry Men. Yeah, I've seen the film.

I've seen the film. That sort of thing. It happens. But, yeah, shout out to Little Stephen. So, I mean, what is your story of Boston's music and, like, how did it call you? And just, like, what was your involvement in your localized Boston years? Okay, well, here's the thing. I missed one important fact about me and music.

My mother's first cousin was a guy named Sid Raymond. Okay. who was a big, I mean, that's where I get my music from that side of the family. He was the arranger for Leonard Bernstein. He did West Side Story. He wrote Gour Watch's theme song, Patty Duke, and Candid Camera. He wrote those three songs. He could have retired after that.

So that's my second cousin, you know. So there is a... So just the trickle down... Yeah, well, it's got to be some genetic thing, you know, the music thing. Because my mother always would sing. She had a really nice voice, and she would, you know, they played music. Okay. You know, we had, I had a really good education, but, okay, Boston.

So Boston, I went to college, started DJing in 73. Where'd you go to college? Hampshire College. Okay. Ken Burns, he went there. He was in my year before me. All right. So basically, I started DJing in college.

I went to Rodana Brooklyn, because it was like a couple of hours away, got a G-L-I mixer. with the big knobs. Yeah, yeah. And I got two turntables and I was DJing. And I got a gig at a club called Rashid's, which was an Arabic hookah pipe disco and amherest. Wait time out, hookah culture was even a thing back then? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

See, I thought hooka culture was only like for millennials, like 90s culture. No, no, this was... Even with weed legal now, like, there's still... Like, right now, the new nostalgia is a bunch of 35 to 40-year-olds. that will go to hookah parties to listen to, you know, whatever is popping in 2001, like Nelly, the Neptunes. Yeah, no, no, no, no, no, there were guys with who. But so I did that.

Then I moved back to Boston, worked in a record shop, and took an engineering course at a studio called Intermedia Studio, which is where Aerosmith cut Dream On. And I remember getting in the studio, I was taking the course, and I found rough, I wish I had them, rough mixes of Dream On, and we were listening to them, Because they were the band, like when I was in high school, a few years early, Dreamon was a hit.

So basically they were like... Do they have a localized presence there before they became national? Yeah, yeah. They were the... Them and Jay Giles was the two bands. But so I started taking engineering course, and then I convinced the owner of the studio to give me free studio time to make a disco record because disco was the thing, you know, it was 76.

How did you convince the owner? I had a gift of gap. You know you need that, right? Okay, I know that. So I got him, and then he hired in an arranger, this guy, John West, who was at Berkeley, and we used all Berkeley students. Now, the group I had, I had been DJing in New Bedford, and there were these three guys hanging at the bar, and it turned out they were singers, but they were players also.

So basically, they were like, you're producer. I said, I'm a producer. Okay, here's some. They put down cash, and they said, we want to make a record. And the guy, Chico Walker, he had said, He had been in a group called Hearts of Stone for Motown. I got the record I looked. There was no Chico on there.

Okay. But he said he was the new Hearts of Stone. But we went in and we cut the record. And it was a disco, you know, 77, I guess that was. And I got a record deal in Canada. And the same label that had Gino Socio came out, got played in New York. Richard Rivera played. So that was my entry point.

And it was like... Did you know what I was doing? No. What to really do? Yeah, because disco. was very specific. I would imagine, especially like I'm watching engineers of my father's era, like, they were so adamant on like taping the heads. Yeah, we did all that. Hitting a blanket. How did you, did you know? Well, you knew the sound you wanted. I knew the sound I wanted,

and I had really cool, all the musicians were young. They were all going to Berkeley. See, that's when you talk about Boston. Pippness. You cannot separate Boston from Berkeley. Okay. So there were amazing musicians. from all over the world were at Berkeley, even back then. So, you know, if you wanted to make a recording, you just, you know, I had a friend who was teaching there. One guy was English guy, Keith Maynard, he was doing arrangements. So he did the horn arrangements.

It was all very, it just sort of flowed, you know, that I met. And then you start meeting musicians, and I met a bunch of great ones. And I just started making records because I, the musicians were not thinking, let's make her disco record. They were studying the scales. They don't do anything shit, right? So basically I sort of started like an industry,

sort of a disco. You know, I wanted to be like Philly Antenna. I was totally out of my mind because I had no reason to think I could be doing this. I just did it. Did you know the general rules, like the rules of, you know, taking the symbols away from your drummer

or taking the tom-toms away from your drummer? Or taking the tom-toms away from your drum. Well, that record, we wanted the Tom Toms because it was like a Savannah band. Okay, got it. You know, but I mean, we, you know, you learn from your engineers, and we would, and your drummer,

and drummers are always, I'm not going to say you're this way, but very anal and really got to be specific. I'm extremely that. Yeah. So. Some are also like just all over the Tasmanian devil. Like Keith Moon.

I don't think he's right. So there's that part. really cared. But it was more like everyone was learning together. But I had some good musicians and good singers and, you know, it was just sort of, I wanted to create a Boston thing. I didn't think I was moving to New York anytime soon, which I did. A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care what I'm saying. Yep, that's me, Cliver Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, the reactions, my journey from basketball to college football, or my career in sports media. Well, somewhere along the

this platform became bigger than I ever imagined. And now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show. This is a place for raw, unfiltered conversations with some of your favorite athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. One week, I'll take you behind the scenes of the biggest moments in sports and entertainment, and the next we'll talk about life, mental health, purpose, and even music. The Clifford Show isn't just a podcast. It's a space for honest conversations, stories that don't always get told,

and for people who are chasing something bigger. So if you've ever supported me or you're just chasing down a dream, this is right what you need to be. Listen to the Clifford show on the IHeard radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok.

There's two golden rules that any man should live by. Rule one, never mess with a country girl. You play stupid games, you get stupid prizes. And rule two, never mess with her friends either. We always say that trust your girlfriends. I'm Anna Sinfield, and in this new season of the girlfriends, Oh my God, this is the same man.

A group of women discover they've all dated the same prolific con artist. I felt like I got hit by a truck. I thought, how could this happen to me? The cops didn't seem to care, so they take matters into their own hands. I said, oh, hell no. I vowed. I will be his last target. He's going to get what he deserves.

Listen to the girlfriends. Trust me, babe. On the Iheart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. What's up, everyone? I'm Ego Wode. My next guest, you know from Step Brothers Anchorman, Saturday Night Live,

and the Big Money Players Network. It's Will Ferrell. My dad gave me the best advice ever. I went and had lunch with him one day, And I was like, and Dad, I think I want to really give this a shot. I don't know what that means, but I just know the groundlings. I'm working my way up through, and I know it's a place they come look for up and coming talent. He said, if it was based solely on talent, I wouldn't worry about you, which is really sweet.

Yeah. He goes, but there's so much luck involved. And he's like, just give it a shot. He goes, but if you ever reach a point where you're banging your head against the wall and it doesn't feel fun anymore, it's okay to quit. If you saw it written down, it would not be an inspiration. It would not be on a calendar of, you know, the cat. Just hang in there. Yeah, it would not be.

Right, it wouldn't be that. There's a lot of luck. Listen to Thanks, Dad, on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. This week on the Sports Slice podcast, it's all about the NFL draft. And we've got a special guest, the director of the NFL's East West Shrine Bowl, Eric Galko joins the Sports Slice podcast to break down what really matters when evaluating draft prospects

from hidden traits teams look for to the biggest mistakes franchises make to the players flying under the radar. This is the insight you won't hear anywhere else. If you want to understand the draft like an insider, you don't want to miss this episode. Listen to the Sports Slice podcast on the iHeartRadio

app, Apple Podcasts, for wherever you get your podcast. And for more, follow Timbo Slica Life 12 and TikTok podcast network on TikTok. In 2023, former bachelor star Clayton Eckerd found himself at the center of a paternity scandal. The family court hearings that followed revealed glaring inconsistencies in her story. This began a years-long court battle to prove the truth. You doctored this particular test twice in so-ins, correct?

I doctored the test ones. It took an army of internet detectives to crack the case. I wanted people to be able to see what their tax dollars were being used for. Sunlight's the greatest disinfected. They would uncover a disturbing pattern. Two more men who'd been through the same thing. Greg Alespian and Michael Marantini. My mind was blown.

I'm Stephanie Young. This is Love Trap. Laura, Scottsdale Police. As the season continues, Laura Owens finally faces consequences. Ladies and gentlemen, breaking news at Maricopa County as Laura Owens has been indicted on fraud charges. This isn't over until justice has served in Arizona. Listen to Love Trapped Podcast on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. So one of the things that I discovered, especially now in this sort of storytelling phase of my career where like film and all those things, you know, the crazy amount of research that I've done in terms of getting access to a lot of these sessions back then, I didn't realize how prominent looping was.

and a lot of the 70s stuff I'll listen to. George Clinton, I know he had done it. But no, no, even typical. Like, Slime and Family Stone, like, I discovered like, oh, my God, like, you just took the best 16 bars of this particular, like, when I'm getting these reels, and I'm like, oh, this is the part I know. And then I'm like, oh, I'll remember this part.

Wait a minute, only to realize and see the notes that we have to slice, like the master would be left alone, then they make a dub, and then all that. that stuff, how prominent was editing culture or looping for you back then? Does you expect your band to do a perfect 10 minute?

Yeah, I mean, we had no time in the studio. So I had all the time he wanted typically. We had no time. We had like a click track, which was what was it called? It was a, it was just like a white noise generator and it didn't even have a tempo. It was like,

oh God, I forget the name of it, but it was a white noise generator. So click tracks were even prominent back then. Yeah, but they weren't, you didn't have the tempo, though. You could just, you could just, I think it was part of the Moog. Right. And it would stay consistent. So you'd play to that. But there was no, well, I mean, there were, but we just didn't have access to the, the drum machines that Sly used in 67, right? But was the idea? To keep the guy in tempo, yeah. Were you thinking of the DJ and this needs to be consistent beating? Yeah, yeah, we were thinking of that.

Yeah, but no one. at that point, before Giorgio, before Eurodisco, then you knew that that was really in time. Those records were pretty much in time. Even like Nile's chic, those shit all over the place, you know? They are. It didn't really happen until after that, I'd say, consistently with a click track and drum machines, obviously, once that...

So what are the general rules that you're learning in real time? Like, I know for, like, AM radio, transistor radio era, pop 60s, you know, three minutes and 20 seconds, all you got to get these ideas out. We were totally away from that. We didn't care. We were making club disco records. We were making them 10, 8 minutes long.

I mean, we weren't thinking about, no one was going to play this on the radio. But in general, for an effective disco record, what do you think the rule was? Or are you saying to me that because they were so, scarce back then that they were all welcome like i.e. MTV wanting any video in the first no there were a lot of records coming out in 76 you know 77 that was the explosion of disco but you needed six to eight hours to you needed an intro that was like long enough for the

DJ to set it up I mean that's what I'm saying like and then there would be a break first yeah yeah yeah there was definitely a pattern you know you'd if you listen to double exposure 10% that That was sort of what we were blown away by because that was sort of the first 12-inch record in Walter Gibbons. And I heard him play it at a club. I talk about it in the book. And we thought it was him playing two copies. We thought he was going back and forth, like what later became known as like hip-hop, you know. But guys in Boston, John Luongo, who ended up being a really big remix, he'd have 245.

Juanco's from Boston. Yeah, he's from Boston. I did not know that. He literally is the godfather of disco in Boston. Oh, dude, that's take you by it down to? Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, I know he's done more than that, but for me that was my. Yeah, but he did, he had a magazine called Nightfall, which was the disco.

It was a nightlife magazine, but focused on disco. And he had a disco awards in Boston. The first year, Donna Summer, the Tramps, Casey and the Sunshine Band, Baker, Harrison, Young, and the village people live in Boston. What? This is... So he's the first one that saw the vision of it being an art form and a business. Yeah, he did. And then he moved to New York and he became a big remixer.

Wow. But my first record, that Hearts of Stone record, he came in and did help me with a remit. Well, I helped him have something to remix, you know? Okay, so all of my memories of... And my father wasn't a disco artist at all. Right. You know, unfortunately, because to say I was still in the fifth, You know, like Motown even still made them do like 50s covers in the 70s or whatever,

which is good for me to know like, oh, that's, you know, a Jackie Wilson song from the 60s or whatever. But I do know that engineers were way more annual back then. You can't touch that. You can't, you can't da-da-da. So, but the thing is, is like, how are you? Do you think I listen to them? No. That's what I'm saying.

Like, how do you convey to them? them, hey, I need more, the drums got to sound more heavier. Well, you'd play, you know, you'd play them records. You'd go, I want the drums to sound like that record. I mean, that's what, you know, that is what we did. We'd go, I love the drum sound on that. I love the horn part in that. I played my arranger.

I'd say, you see that, can you do something similar to that? So I was a DJ, so I was showing the engineer and the arranger the records. You weren't a nuisance, not a nuisance. And I don't mean nuisance in terms of that being a DJ. nuisance but I've I've heard some examples of because again a lot of these masters that I go through I also hear the raw talk of it all and there have been some arguments where it's like that I don't sound loud enough last time I want you to well as I said we had like eight hours in the studio so we didn't have time to do that it's different when you're making an album and you know like so you have to

create you have to format and mix well no we'd go back we we'd go in and we record everything, and then another session we'd mix. That was it. I mean, even when we get to Planet Rock, it was like that for that also. I'm almost certain there's a working road for you in which you could go the traditional route of just being a producer in terms of like finding pop acts or whatever. But when did you realize like there's no title for it?

So I'll just say for now street music. We don't know what hip is yet. I wanted to be gamble enough. I wanted to make records that you could dance to that said something. I had no reason to think I could do it. All your records have edge to it that the average album. That's because I wasn't good at trying to make the same thing as someone else. I'd add, like, I'm not going to say funk.

I'd add an edge just because I didn't know what I was doing maybe, you know. Is it not one naysay in your life like, oh, dog, like, who's too aggressive sounding? or this is too... No, no, no. It's funny because I was just with Nelson, George, the other day, and I used to bring him my early 12-inch records in, like, 80, 81,

when he was working at record world. And he remembers, I mean, he remembers this kid coming in with these records, and they were always, okay, there was just something different, weird, or whatever, and then when I brought him playing in Iraq, he was, oh, yeah, okay, now I get it. But, no, I was attempting

to make records like the ones I had heard, but for some reason they never came out like that, and I'm not sure why. Maybe it's because I only had a certain amount of time to do them. I don't know. Right. But, you know, I was happy because I was making records that got played. Before I moved to New York, I had records that Happy Days, North End,

Frankie Crocker killed that record. I mean, it was a big record here. I don't need no music, T.J.M., Larry LeVann. So, you know, out of Boston, I was making these disco records that were getting played in New York. And to me, that was like, wow. I've actually done something that no one else had done. And I was like a horrible DJ, which I don't know if we've ever discussed it.

I'm really a horrible DJ because I have no patience. Really? Yeah, I'm horrible still to this day. I don't like playing full songs. I'm a, you know, you cut between them. I just lose patience with the whole process, you know. Okay. No, I'm being honest, you know.

Yeah, I get bored. No, I get, I bore myself. No matter what I, whatever I play, I mean, I know they're good, but I'm just like, I don't know what I want to play. And I'm not prepared. I know you are probably the most prepared DJ. You want to know something? I think, from what I've seen when we've got.

I was anal retentive. I would plan. I remember in Canada. Yeah, I would plan mixes a year ahead of time. Like three songs a day I would add to that long thing. Actually, I'll say. as of this recording, this is probably week 12. I decided that I wanted to try.

I've been taking hole-in-the-wall gigs. The agreement is, like, you can't advertise me. Yeah. Oh, yes. I want to practice a non-prepared gig. Just play a record and see what I feel. And this is more of my therapeutic thing. Like, what do I feel inside?

Not like, what are I prepared inside? And this is also the same with maybe, twice a year I'll do like a real jazz gig where like Glasper one of those guys will be like go let's do a gig together at the blue note or whatever I think like yesterday Chris Dave came up with the night he's like look I want to do five drummers like you me koreen briggins strow Elliot and maybe jazzy Jeff spinning drum solos just drums and no instruments and that to me is the most intimidating thing ever but I'm going to allow myself that you could do it I mean I can do it but I also, I'm so calculated in curating and being a bandleader.

I want to know what's next and what my emergencies are that I'm actually allowing myself to not, I want to become a sloppier DJ. Well, watch me. You'll learn really quickly. That was about what you feel. Yeah, the DJing thing. But I had the mind of a DJ. That's where I wanted to go.

So I knew what things were meant to be. And all these great DJs in Boston, they thought they're never going to get to be a record producer. They're just going to DJ. I mean, back in the day, that was sort of the process. But when I moved to New York, I'd never DJed in New York. What year did you move to New York? 81. Okay. But I never DJed in New York, ever. You know, I was DJing. And not in Boston, really. I was in, like, Braintree. I was in, like, the suburbs playing, like, the Mafia, the Supper Club. There was a place called Sadie's. Okay. Supper Club and Braintree. And in, uh, you know what? Maybe your dad.

I was going to say. They did have bands. I bet you he played there, man. I was going to say, I believe that Sadies was also one of the normal. If it's in the Northeast, if it's New England or the Catskills. They had a bunch of Sadies. They had a bunch. Oh, we lived in Boston.

I'm sure you were there. I remember Boston when the, whatever, your highways were not fixed. It was traffic nightmare. Yeah. It's fixed now and I'm not used to it. Yeah, it's better. I'm so not used to it. Okay.

So in terms of edit culture, just in general, and I know you do have a story of Luongo, but is it Ron Hardy or Tom Walton one of those guys? Yeah, he ripped me off, yeah. Okay, so what is the Tom Moulton story? In the 70s, who are the go-to? Tom Moulton was, he worked with Florence Greenberg at Scepter, Mel Sharon. He would do remixes and re-edits of early.

Scepter stuff? Septor stuff. Like BT Express era, SEPter? Were they labeled before then or? Scepter, she had labels before. No, they were all SEPter. It was SEPter. He had a BT Express.

Okay. Bobby Moore, Call Me or Anything, Man. I don't know if you know that record. He was doing all that. He made tapes. He didn't play records. He would make these tapes and they got played a Fire Island. I mean, it's like a big, it was like sort of a big.

He was part of that culture. So we put together a mixtape and then they would play that as a discosite. Yeah, and then everyone would go nuts. Yeah. So he became the guy. Either he was from Boston or his brother was at the studio when I was working on my big project, which was in 78 I was making my own disco album. So I cut 12 songs totally over my budget, had no money to finish it.

And this guy, Jerry Moulton, Tom's brother, came to the studio and said, I think my brother's going to love this stuff. So he played it for Tom and they said to me, Well, listen, we want to take it. We want to re-record everything. How you've recorded it isn't good, but we want the tapes. So they took all the multi-tracks. Now, in your mind, what do you think, you think they're going to stick to their word?

Yeah. What do you think they're going to do for you? It was 70, I was 23. Right. And I thought. Did you know who Tom Martin was? Oh, yeah, yeah. That's why I was a big thing.

Oh, Quincy Jones. Yeah, it was like a big thing that I was getting, the record would come out. He said, well, listen, we'll use the song. songs, you'll get some publishing, which I got like a third of the publishing. Right. But we're not going to use your recording. Okay. We're going to just listen to your recording so we can redo it.

And then the record comes out, and literally it is my recording. So he just re-engineered it? You know what he did do? He took off the guy who was a falsetto singer, Bobby Howard, from the ambitions. See, Boston had their vocal groups. The energetics, the ambitions. They had quite a breakaway, the Italian guys. So basically, I hear it, and the only thing that's different is he's added a few strings

and he has a different lead singer, Ron Tyson, who later became. I know that name. He was one of the guys in the later Eddie Kendrick guy. Ron Tyson and the Jimitations, yes, okay. So he's singing on it, right? But Larry Wedgworth, who was a singer on mine, he's the lead singer. Right. No credit for Larry.

And then I'm like, you know, what the hell? You know, and literally there was nothing, I'm sure there was something I could do, but I never did anything about it. And so for years, me and Tom did he just think, like, kid? Yeah, yeah. He won't know. Whatever. But I have the rough mixes I did that I sent him,

and they literally, everything's, it's all there. Got it. But I mean, it got, but the thing was, the good thing, was Larry Levan played a song called Put Yourself in My Place, which Alfi Davidson had written, and I don't need no music. And people go, oh, is that your, wait, is that your record? Your name's not, I mean, it was on as a writer and arranger. But it got played at the garage, and that opened it up. And then, you know, it was sort of a big entree, but also the first total screwing I got.

And that was unbelievable. When I think about it now, it's like, yeah, we're going to just look. listen to the tapes. We don't really, yeah. So you're proof that every Maverick that enters this injury has a trial by fire. I got ripped off first. That was your first lesson. That was my, I have many more. Is Martin still? He's still live. He's still alive. Is he active? He just does remixes for stuff. He's his name one at Rubberstaff. He has all, no, he actually is active, and he has all these multi-tracks. He got a lot of the Sigma ones. Got it. Because he did all the Sigma stuff.

He did all the things you probably love. Yeah, the Sazzle. Yeah, the Sousel. Right. All the, all the, uh, Philly International Comps. He did all that stuff. I'll always say the guy's the best remix ever, but he's an asshole. A win is a win.

A win is a win. I don't care what I'm saying. Yep, that's me, Clever Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, the reactions, my journey from basketball to college football, or my career in sports media. Well, Somewhere along the way, this platform became bigger than I ever imagined. And now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show.

This is a place for raw, unfiltered conversations with some of your favorite athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. One week, I'll take you behind the scenes of the biggest moments in sports and entertainment, and the next we'll talk about life, mental health, purpose, and even music. The Clifford Show isn't just a podcast. It's a space for honest conversations, stories that don't always get told, and for people who are chasing something bigger. So, if you've ever supported me

or you're just chasing down a dream, this is right where you need to be. Listen to The Clifford show on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok. There's two golden rules that any man should live by. Rule one, never mess with a country girl.

You play stupid games, you get stupid prizes. And Rule 2, never mess with her friends either. We always say that trust your girlfriends. I'm Anna Sinfield, and in this new season of the girlfriends... Oh my God, this is the same man. A group of women discover they've all dated the same prolific con artist. I felt like I got hit by a truck. I thought, how could this happen to me?

The cops didn't seem to care, so they take matters into their own hands. I said, oh, hell no. I vowed I will be his last target. He's going to get what he deserves. Listen to the girlfriends. Trust me, babe. On the Iheart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. What's up, everyone?

I'm Ego Wode. My next guest, you know from Step Brothers Anchorman, Saturday Night Live, and the Big Money Players Network, it's Will Ferrell. Woo, woo, woo, woo, woo. My dad gave me the best advice ever. I went and had lunch with them one day, and I was like, and Dad, I think I want to really give this a shot. I don't know what that means, but I just know the groundlings.

I'm working my way up through, and I know it's a place that come, look for up and coming talent. He said, if it was based solely on talent, I wouldn't worry about you, which is really sweet. Yeah. He goes, but there's so much luck involved. And he's like, just give it a shot. He goes, but if you ever reach a point where you're banging your head against the wall and it doesn't feel fun anymore, it's okay to quit.

If you saw it written down, it would not be an inspiration. It would not be on a calendar of, you know, the cat. Just hang in there. Yeah, it would not be. Right, it wouldn't be that. There's a lot of luck. Listen to Thanks, Dad, on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. This week on the Sports Slice podcast, it's all about the NFL draft.

And we've got a special guest, the director of the NFL's East West Shrine Bowl, Eric Galka. joins the Sports Slice podcast to break down what really matters when evaluating draft prospects. From hidden traits teams look for to the biggest mistakes franchises make to the players flying under the radar. This is the insight you won't hear anywhere else. If you want to understand the draft like an insider, you don't want to miss this episode. Listen to the Sports Slice podcast on the Iheart radio app, Apple Podcasts, for wherever you get your podcast. And for more, follow Timbo Slical Life 12 and TikTok podcast network on TikTok. In 2023, former bachelor star Clayton Eckerd found himself at the center of a paternity scandal.

The family court hearings that followed revealed glaring inconsistencies in her story. This began a years-long court battle to prove the truth. You doctored this particular test twice in so much, correct? I doctored the test once. It took an army of internet detectives to crack the case. I wanted people to be able to see what their tax dollars were being used for. sunlight's the greatest disinfected. They would uncover a disturbing pattern.

Two more men who'd been through the same thing. Greg Gillespie and Michael Marantini. My mind was blown. I'm Stephanie Young. This is Love Trap. Laura, Scottsdale Police. As the season continues, Laura Owens finally faces consequences.

Ladies and gentlemen, breaking news at Americopa County as Laura Owens has been indicted on fraud charges. This isn't over until Justice is served in Arizona. Listen to Love Trapped podcast on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Could you give me, North of Harlem, a Bronx-era hip-hop story, like venturing up there and seeing...

I have my best story. Well, let me hear it. Okay, my best story is I'm working on another disco album with Joe Batan. Yes. So Howard Smiley, who had been a T.K., he was a friend. He got me and Joe together to make an album. I was going to do one side, Joe, the other, but we'd collaborate on each other's tracks.

And Joe called me up. I was living in Brooklyn with Tina, my wife at the time, and I got a call from him, and he goes, you've got to come up here. You got to hear this. And I go, hear what? He goes, there's guys talking over records. You know, they're playing tracks on a boombox,

and they're talking over records. Wait, they're playing tracks on the boombox? Well, they were playing, like, to be real or whatever. They were playing, no, on a tape player. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So they're playing, no, they're playing tracks in the park, and they're rapping over them live, like, you know, just sort of hanging out doing that.

Right. So I'm like, it was in the summer, and I'm in Brooklyn. I don't really want to make that move. Right. But he said, yeah, you got to come, you got to come. And I went, and there he is sitting on a park bench and, uh, 125th or, you know, around there. Did it look this?

As we imagine in the movies and stuff. Yeah, this was 79. This was before I moved. This is when I'm just here for the summer. And there he is. And what I loved about Joe Butan, and I sort of followed that as a fashion thing. He was always ready to play basketball. He always had sneakers and shorts on.

No matter what, he'd go to a meeting. So he was sitting in the park, dressed like that. And he goes, he pointed out to the guy. And I'm like, oh, he said, someone's going to make a million dollars on that. I remember thinking, really? Really? So it was just like seem fattish? Then about a couple of weeks later, he was in the studio, and I came in because we

were working on the record together. A friend of mine from Boston, guitarist and Andre Carrere, he was playing guitar on it. And it was when I met Jocelyn Brown, and it was Rapo Clappo. He was recording Rapo Clappo, which was two weeks after he had seen the guy. in the park. Right. And he did rapo, clapo, because he wanted to be the first guy to record a rap record because there was no rap records.

I didn't even know if it was called rap. This is like pre-rapper's delight, pre-anything. I know. And we're in there, and he's got this guy Marty Scheller doing the arranging. And it was, you know, and I met you often. She was probably 18, 19, whatever. Wow. It's 78.

And, yeah, I was like, oh, it sounds cool. But, you know, I was doubt. still. And then London Records US went Bosto closed so we each got our own tracks back. So he ended up putting that out as Mastizo, that album, and he had Rapo Clapo on it. And that became a hit

in Europe, not over here, but yeah. I want to know about New York, or not even New York, just of the era indie label culture. And I'm talking about like Western records or emergency records, like Cecil or Prelude, these labels that I'm seeing prominently, getting a seat at the table, but they're indie labels. But I'll tell you, there's...

Are you going to see Morris Levy? No, no, I'll save that. Oh, you have a Morris Levy story? Dude, he was my partner for a year. Motherfucket, stop. Give me a Morris Levy story. Yeah. One that you can tell.

I tell them all, man. He's dead, you know. There is a rumor he's in Australia, though. Really? Yeah, and the witness protection plan. Wouldn't shock you at all of you still here? Well, he'd be really old now. Okay.

I don't think, you know, he did get can. Yeah, I don't want to kid about him, you know, but basically. You would seem like the type that would go into witness. But this is going to connect to what you just asked me. Okay. Okay. And I will tell you a Morris Levy story. But the labels were either run by old industry guys, like Prelude, Marty.

God, what's his name? He had been in the industry. Mel Sharon had been at West End, West End was Mel Sharon, who had been at SEPter, working at SEPter. So those... Wait, wait, so you're telling tell me, like, all these new labels were run by the old cats? No, no, no. Half of them were run by the old cats. and half of them were run by the new cats.

Okay. Like profile young guys. Okay. Tommy boy young guys. Streetwise young guys. You know, there were the older guys who had started before us, like Prelude and West End were like an, and even emergency was an Italian guy, Sergio Kosa, who had been a little older than us. So there was that. And then when hip-hop started, all the new labels started.

That's what started all these young kids doing labels. Tommy Boy and Prelude and Streetwise. So basically, there were two routes. The Prelude Disco, the more disco-y West End Prelude, those were old, not old times. Yeah, they were older than us. They were 15, 20 years older. So they were, like, more established. And then the upstarts were the ones that ended up becoming sort of more the hip-hop influence.

You started streetwise, correct? Yeah, that was my label. Okay, so walk me through it. You're like, I'm going to start a label. what is the first thing you need? I guess capitals first, right? No, but what happened was because Tom had, Tom started his label.

I knew Tom from these Billboard disco conventions, which, you know, that was earlier, like in late 70s. So when I moved to New York, Tom said, I was the only record producer he knew, literally. He didn't know. Well, he didn't really know when he produces. So he said, I've got this guy Bambata. He's got these rap acts.

Do you want to produce a record? I go, sure, you know, no one was offering me. I mean, a producer without someone willing to pay to get you in the studio is you can't, back then, you couldn't produce anything without being in the studio and being able to hire musicians. Right. So Tom, the first record with Jazzy Sensation. Yeah. And we went in with a live band.

You produced that, too? Yeah, yeah. Oh, see, in my mind, you just came in from the future with this thing. I totally forgot that you should. Who was the house band for that? That was Andre Booth. Andre Booth and Charlie Street, the guitarist, and the guys who did BBCSNA. Was Pumpkin on drums or who?

No, no, this guy T. Funk, who would play with James Brown at some point, so he claimed. But they did Vicky D, this beat is mine. Okay. They had produced that. I met them through T. Scott, who was a DJ and a remixer, who had remixed and helped me finish Happy Days. and he brought these young kids from Queens. They were all 18, 19 years old. I was going to say, where do you...

How did I meet you? Where do you find, like, musicians? Through T. Scott. Okay. He brought them in to do some overdubs. And then, so we did happy days. And then when I wanted to go in to cut this rap record for Jazzy 5, I called the guys I had met on that session, which was Andre.

And we became really good friends. So Andre brought the band in, and we went into galaxie. We decided to cut funky sensation and, you know, did a redo of it because back then all rap records were covers, obviously. And there was this one kid who was always in the studio with him who didn't say anything. And I didn't know until years later, actually, that it was Marley Marl. So Marl was, he saw me as sort of a mentor because he was in all my sessions. And I didn't really even know at the time, but he was in a lot of the sessions. Yeah. But basically, so starting a label, I had a hit with Jazzy Sensation and then Planet Rock. And I bumped into a friend of mine from college on a train, on the F train. And he said, well, you have Planet Rock. Don't you want to do a record label? And I go, yeah. But he goes, I got a guy from Boston who's a banker and he has a lot of money and wants to start a label.

Okay. Bob Alexander, Paul McCraven. And that's how I started a lay. Without the money, there's no way I would have ever started a label. and the interest structure. Okay, so walk me through, I'm so glad I'm asking you all these questions. Okay, because oftentimes we'll watch a movie or TV show, and they get a hit. And then as the viewer, you're like, oh, my God, life is just... Yeah, it wasn't like that.

Okay, so you get a hit. I get a hit with Planet Rock. What does that mean? When does your bank account know, oh, we got a hit? when is it like, hey, let's eat at this fancy restaurant instead of, you know. I think it was more like taking a cab instead of taking the subway. Okay. Yeah.

But the... How quick? I mean, that one, I mean, that hit really quick. Well, Planet Rock shouldn't count because Planet Rock's like thriller. Like, we really... Yeah, but the money didn't come through that quick. But the thing was, I have to say, Tom was always good at paying royalties and... And he, so basically, it would have come, you know, he would have given me an advance or something.

But, you know, soon after I opened up a recording, I mean, recording studio, Beat Street, all this shit happened within two years. Okay, so. I don't even know how I did it. I got to say, I don't know how the money, you know, how it came about. But the label came about because a friend said, you want to open a label. Well, now with technology, I mean, technically, I can record an album on this. Yeah, you couldn't do that. Right.

And I can release it and have the same effect, you know, whatever. But you would have been great because you're so organized. I was so unorganized. No, I think I'm wise enough to have a circle of people who are organized. I got to be creative and under-organized. I don't want to mislead you. Okay. Yeah, I never have my circle.

There's 19 people right now, like rolling their eyes like, yeah, okay. I'm here. I never had my circle, you know. So when you start a label, how much money? do you need to... Can I say that new edition was your first label act or did you have another act on Streetwise?

Yeah, it's you, yeah. Who was your first Streetwise act? Well, the first act that I actually discovered and put out a record that actually did something was Rocker's Revenge because that was big. That sold a lot of records.

The first few, I had a Pee Wee Ford, the bass player from B, B&Q. Okay. He did a record for me called... On the beat? Yeah, but he did a record for me called Be My Girl. girl. Okay. With James Robinson singing lead on it.

Okay. Like from change. Yeah. You know? And then I did touchdown, a group from the UK, Ease Your Mind, which I did a remix on, Lenny Underwood played keyboards on. And then Walking on Sunshine was three. Then it was like the new edition thing happened.

Before that, to start a label, I had bankers who had money. They got an office immediately. And we were a street label, streetwise, our office. Madison Avenue. Okay. So we had an office of Madison Avenue, but like a one room, it was not a big office. But when you're starting label,

is it like single first, and if that's good, then maybe we get... Yeah, we weren't doing albums. We were doing 12-inch. I mean, we were a 12-inch label. That's where... Could you make a living off of... Well, when walking on Sunshine

sold $300,000, I guess, you know. Right. You don't really think about that. You just, back then, I had... had someone who was financing a label, and they were letting me decide what came on the label. What was your home studio, or your studio of choice? Well, at that point, it had been intergalactic, but then they shut. So then I started using unique, unique studio, and blank, blank tapes, Bob blank.

You need a budget to record and mix. Yeah, you need money. You needed to pay an advance for the act. I mean, you need... So you have a 12-inch? Yeah. Who's the first domino that has to fall so that you know you have a chance to have a hit? Clubs.

And what's the club you're going to go to? Well, Funhouse, Paradise Garage. And is Paradise Garage really? Yeah. Is it more about the revisionist folklore? No, no. It's true. But I feel like for every Jordan, there's 10 guys that could have won't.

Charles Barkley. was great. He could have been a contender. He could have, but he wasn't. Like, what else besides Caradise Garage? No, I'm going to tell you. I'm going to tell you. Okay. There was...

And what are we judging on? Sonics? No, you're judging on record sales the next day. Larry Levin would play a record. Right. And then, you know, you'd... What was it? Vinyl Mania. People would go to Vinyl Mania.

To the record store next to... Well, it was in the village. Right. They'd go there lined up after hearing a record at Paradise Garage. But without Shazam or whatever, how is it working out? Dude, they would go and they go, Larry played a record who went like, doom, doom, doom, doom, doom. And they, I'm telling you, it's true. But was he like, this is a new song by the Peach Boys.

No, no, he'd play it so often the word would get out. I mean, I was there, I'm telling you, it's not folklore. It's actually reality. He played Walking on Sunshine, okay? All right. plays walking on sunshine. Frankie hears it Crocker. He's writing down what the songs are, obviously.

He goes, people hear the song before he even starts playing it. They hear it at the garage because Larry would play songs numerous times in the night. I mean, the first time I... Were you there for that night where he tortured them and said, I'm going to play ABC over and over again to you guys? No, heartbeat. Yeah, I was there for that. Okay.

The bigger one was Rapper's Delight. I was there when he first... That's the first time I heard Rapper's Delight was at Paradise Garage. And he played it... What was that like to hear it on loud-ass speakers? Unbelievable. And the thing was, in the beginning,

you think... Because in the beginning of it, there's a bit from here comes that sound again. Right, it's simple. So I thought it was that. Right. So I'm like, here comes that, wow. And then it's good times.

And I'm like, what the fuck is this? And then, boom... They're not singing. Right. They were rapping. So he, but he played that, like, a couple of times. He would do that. I'm telling you, I was there.

It isn't football. So that was just normal. Not that I hate repetition culture. And the thing is, I'm not trying to, like, grandfather you like, so granddad, tell me what it was like. No, no. As a five-year-old in these nightclubs, so I understand, like, play that record again, play that record again, play that.

Yeah, but no one did that. He did that. It wasn't like everyone else did that. He was doing it because he was stubborn, and he would make people listen to that. record and heartbeat was another famous one. So slow. Such a slow track. He would brainwash people.

He just forced boogie onto people against their world. He was playing that for a year before he came out. New mixes. And people were resisting it? Well, in the beginning. And then it would be like, you know, when it came on, people would go nuts. I mean, but listen, it's actually true. You had the Stockholm syndrome, some people once he's liking you.

I don't know. I don't think. I think, I think, but the whole lot of. idea of him playing it and then people go into vinyl mania the next day, the next morning, looking for record. I mean, that's how people were. The only way they'd hear a lot of this was at the club. So, you know, and then Frankie would play it and then you knew you had a hit. I mean, in my dock that I've done above Rockers' Revenge, I tell that story and it's literally it happened that way. And we, Frankie would come on and we'd all be listening. And my distributor

It was Sunshine Distributor, strangely. And basically, we heard Frankie play it. And then it was just like they ordered 30,000 cars. I mean, it would be. So Frankie Crocker is the bridge in between the street clubs and everything. And radio. And if you hear something and the crowd responds to it, he played on radio the next day. He gets the credit for like, look what I introduced you to.

Well, no, he was open about going to Paradise Garage. He was always there. I wish I could do a study on how revisionist's history. starts where it's just like, I mean, people swear to God that the best sound system of their lives was at the Paradise Girl. Like, what else was there besides just music you never heard before? And, and people were open to a song they didn't know before. Yeah, it was that.

I can't imagine that today. It was, it was that. It was that. But it had like these great wooden floor. I mean, it just was like wooden floors, like a basketball court, a really, beautiful wooden floors and it had the tweeter you know the tweeters

I mean it was just he knew how to play the system and I'm not a tech guy at all you know so I'm like going well you're a producer yeah but I'm not like a you know a tech nerd I would go there and it would just sound amazing

and the low end it was just a clean and just you know okay in order for me to get the satisfaction of playing an unheard untested song I mean it could be from an established artist I've played like new

Outcast before that no one's ever heard but it's almost like I got to play four Captain Obie songs and then I'm gonna get that one song in the middle that you never heard before and it might taper off a little bit or if it's Farrell or something it's like oh this is obviously some new Neptune

shit I've never heard before but no I do that but I'm not playing you know I don't care I'm not saying you have to care but you know it's a different you have a bigger crowd or whatever but I always play shit I'm working on because that's what I always did, you know,

and that was the only way I knew when something was finished. I mean, we played Walking on Sunshine, a Confusion, or IOU, any of those records, we played at the Fun House for months, and before the record was out, it was like a hit there, nowhere else, you know, but we use that as our testing pad. Now that you're saying that, I find it strange that DJs, like I know a lot of, you know, big EDM DJs, and not playing what they're working on.

on because it's just what you said, you know. Eidium culture, I find they're only playing what they're working on. Like, I can't Shazam half the EDM DJ. When I go to Vegas, I'll go and I'll watch the seven-figure DJ, the same figure. And they're really, they're doing a show. They're playing the best of them.

I don't have, my music isn't conducive of like five hours of dance. Yeah. If you clean your house on a Sunday, I'll be the perfect guy. to make your mixtape. But if I had gunned to your head, like, the best New York nightclub experience for you was always what? It's hard. I mean...

Was Studio 54 even all that? No, no, no. Is that the legend versus... That's the legend. Yeah, that's bullshit. Really? Well, well, it's a celebrity hangout, man. I wasn't a celebrity.

So I was... Nile wasn't a celebrity. He didn't even get to go in. I mean... as this music was playing. Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, no, he wrote the song in response to... No, no, I know that.

But, yeah, they were playing his music. There was one time when everybody dances playing, and he's like, that's literally me. Like, you're really not getting it. I had three clubs. I had better days, well, actually, four clubs, better days, danceateria, which you would have loved dance terrier. Because it just was very eclectic.

It played everything got played there, and there were different floors. and the people who were hanging out. It was just like a really cool venue. Okay, this is my humble break. Madge tells me a story. When she first, this is before she signed to Sire, how she has a cassette in her hand

and she gives it to the DJ. Mark Kamens, yeah. Even then, like, I can't imagine. I'm so, the reason why I'm glad of. That was how it was like. I mean, she was cute. He put it on. Right.

No, what? What, are we? Untested? Being real, yeah, he'd listen to it and play it. So, DJs weren't ego, like, for me, I'm like, dog. Don't make me look bad. It was different then. But what if the song is bad?

Well, then, you know what, he plays another one, man. It was different. No one knew what anyone was playing. Do you understand? They were playing things that no one knew. So people would still dance, even though like. Well, it had a beat. No one knew what the records were, okay?

Think about that. How do we get back to that period? Every record played was. was something people didn't know. I can't imagine. Until they knew it, until they knew it. But the first time,

it wasn't like they were playing records from the radio. They were playing, you know, Mark especially. He was very forward thinking. He was playing everything, Mark Kamens. I mean, he was the most eclectic. No, but I'm just saying, Larry Levan would not play anyone's track.

You know, he would play. He knew me. He had played my records. I gave him an acetate of walking on Sunshine. He didn't play. play it right away, and then right when I left, because this is how he was, he saw, I was in the booth, I left, and then a friend of mine said, as soon as you left, he played it. A win is a win.

A win is a win. I don't care what you're saying. Yep, that's me, Cliver Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, the reactions, my journey from basketball to college football, or my career in sports media. Well, somewhere along the way, this platform became bigger than I ever. ever imagined. And now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show. This is a place for raw, unfiltered conversations with some of your favorite athletes,

creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. One week, I'll take you behind the scenes of the biggest moments in sports and entertainment. And the next, we'll talk about life, mental health, purpose, and even music. The Clifford Show isn't just a podcast. It's a space for honest conversations, stories that don't always get told, and for people who are chasing something bigger. So if you've ever supported me or you're just chasing down a dream, this is right where you need to be. Listen to the Clifford show on the IHeart Radio app,

Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok. There's two golden rules that any man should live by. Rule one, never mess with a country girl. You play stupid games, you get stupid prizes. And rule two, never mess with her either. We always say that trust your girlfriends. I'm Anna Sinfield, and in this new season of the girlfriends, oh my God, this is the same man. A group of women discover they've all dated the same prolific con artist. I felt like I got hit by a truck. I thought, how could this happen to me? The cops

didn't seem to care, so they take matters into their own hands. I said, oh, hell no. I vowed. I will be his last target. He's going to get what he deserves. Listen to the girlfriends. Trust me, babe. On the Iheart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. What's up, everyone? I'm Ago Wodom. My next guest, you know from Step Brothers Anchorman, Saturday Night Live, and the Big Money Players Network.

It's Will Ferrell. My dad gave me the best advice ever. I went and had lunch with them one day, and I was like, and Dad, I think I want to really give this a shot. I don't know what that means, but I just know the groundlings. I'm working my way up through, and I know it's a place that come look for up and coming talent. He said, if it was based solely on talent, I wouldn't worry about you, which is really sweet. Yeah. He goes, but there's so much luck involved.

And he's like, just give it a shot. He goes, but if you ever reach a point where you're banging your head against the wall and it doesn't feel fun anymore, it's okay to quit. If you saw it written down, it would not be an inspiration. It would not be on a calendar. of, you know, the cat just hang in there. Yeah, it would not be... Right, it wouldn't be that. There's a lot of luck.

Listen to Thanks, Dad, on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. This week on the Sports Slice podcast, it's all about the NFL draft, and we've got a special guest. The director of the NFL's East West Shrine Bowl, Eric Galco, joins the Sports Slice podcast to break down what really matters when evaluating draft prospect. From hidden traits teams look for to the biggest mistakes franchises make to the players flying under the radar, this is the insight you won't hear anywhere else. If you want to understand the draft like an insider, you don't want to miss this episode.

Listen to the Sports Slice Podcast on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more, follow Timbo Slica Life 12 and TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok. In 2023, former bachelor star Clayton Eckerd found himself at the center of a paternity scandal. The family court hearings that followed revealed glaring inconsistencies in her story.

This began a years-long court battle to prove the truth. You doctored this particular test twice in someone's, correct? I doctored the test ones. It took an army of internet detectives to crack the case. I wanted people to be able to see what their tax dollars were being used for. Sunlight's the greatest disinfected.

They would uncover a disturbing pattern. Two more men who'd been the same thing. Greg, a lesbian, Michael Maranini. My mind was blown. I'm Stephanie Young. This is Love Trap.

Laura, Scottsdale Police. As the season continues, Laura Owens finally faces consequences. Ladies and gentlemen, breaking news at Americopa County as Laura Owens has been indicted on fraud charges. This isn't over

until justice is served in Arizona. Listen to a love-trapped podcast on the I-Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Explain to me a typical DJ setup in a nightclub in 1981, 82. Everyone had, there's a real-to-reel, their quarter-inch and a two-inch or just a quarter-inch?

Not, just a quarter-inch. Everyone had quarter-inch tapes. So we're not concerned about like blending and... No, they are, but they're not... I mean, it wasn't a common occurrence that he would play it all the time, but he would play my quarter-inch tapes. You know, it's in the confusion video. that's real.

What was your best response to an untested record on here? Play at your own risk. Well, of course, because you have to play it rock. I know, but you ask me, man. It's like, hey, I made it off the wall. Here's thriller.

Yeah. Yeah, yeah. No, but okay, what else? Yeah, no, I would say that. I owe you is big, the fun house. I was about to say, that song just helped

a lot of us elementary school kids. Yeah, I know. I know. I know. My daughter, My daughter learned the... A-E-E-I-O-U and sometimes why. Can you tell me the first time that you heard

Kraftworks music in a nightclub setting? What is the crowd acting like when they hear this? I heard Trans-Europe Express in Boston. John Luonga would play it. Okay. I was in the record pool. We got the 12-inch of Trans-Europe Express. So Trans-Europe Express, and I'd hear that before Planet Rock,

I would hear Trans-Europe Express in the projects, you know, in Queens. Yeah. I worked in Long Island City. I'd hear it coming out of someone's radio, you know, and it would be... Black Radio staple. Yeah, it was great.

So basically, when we went in to do this record that became Planet Rock, Bambada had said, I want to use Trans Europe Express. That was definitely his idea, not mine. Okay. But then him and Tom, Silverman, did a demo,

which I didn't really, really like. There's a demo to Planet Rock? Well, it doesn't sound much like Planet Rock, but... Do you have access to this demo? Yeah, I'll let you hear. Oh, my God, okay. It's got the bass line from, do you like it? Do do, do, do do, do do, do, do, do, do...

So... That could work. Yeah, it did work, but it wouldn't have been what Planet Rock was. And then I was at Music Factory in Brooklyn with the guys who would later become Rock as Revenge. Right. They were behind the deck. And they had two decks, and they did.

They would DJ at the shop, which was amazing. And Dwight put on this track, which just went, whoa, what is that? And it was numbers. So I said, oh, man, if I used that beat with the melody and no baseline, no baseline, that gets in the way, because numbers had no baseline. So basically we went in, and then when we went in, the rappers were looking at me like, they wanted jazzy sensation.

They wanted that. They wanted the live beat and slow. And then when they heard that, Bambada loved it. The rappers, they were like, what is that? We're never going to get another chance to make a record if we do this. So, okay, this is what I got to know. All right. So I was wondering what your role truly is in hip-hop culture.

Now, a lot has been made of the mythology of producer Paul C. And when you talk to the large professor about producer Paul C, Our inside joke is, okay, yeah, Paul C was the first guy to read the SB1200's instruction manual. Wow. He needs an award for that. Right, just for that. Because anyone else that I talk to, including the bomb squad, including anyone who's Marley himself, was just like, you know, just, you know, the basic bits. It's trial and error.

Yeah. Were you the Paul C. of the pioneering hip-hop stage where how do you even know what an 808 is? How do you know how to operate it? Because you're doing different beats and rhythms. The story with that is very simple. We were looking for a drum machine, for sure. Monica, Lynch and Tommy Boy.

Looking through the village voice and we find men with drum machine. We call them up. What drum machine do you have? Wait, he would just have an ad, needed drum machine, I own one. Well, you find drumming. is in the village voice, right? You would find anything there. How did you know that machine technology?

No, no, no, no. But here's the thing. He said 808. So I went to Mannies and heard it. I went and heard the drum machine. The 808, they had it at Mannies, right? So I got in, they showed me what it sounded like. Wait, let me, because I'm going to ask you so many minuscule details.

Okay. So you have a vision in your head of how you want Planet Rock to Sound, but you know that a live band cannot do this. No way. No way. It's a drum machine. Right. So when was the first time that you heard that a non-docter rhythm Sly Stone, Holiday Inn, like a real, like that there's a machine that can... I was looking for a drum machine. It could have been any drum machine. But how did you know they existed?

Come on. I knew they existed from Sly. Come on. You knew. Yeah, I know. And Holland Oates had used one. one and no can do. I mean, there were drum machines. I mean, it was a thing. I was unaware of that. Okay. So that's the...

There was a thing called the drum machine, right? And then you were aware that existed? I was aware that the drum machine existed. Okay. I didn't know anything about them because I'd never used one of them. But do you acknowledge that, yes, there's sly. Dude, I did a whole Bible to slide. But I didn't know that.

Really in real time? You're the first. time that we ever knew a drum machine tool existed. I'll say right before Planet Rock came out, Rock and Soul magazine, Stephen Ivory, I think, happened to be

this is back when the Jackson's were accessible, and Michael's inviting Stephen Ivory to a demo session which will eventually become thriller. And this is like March of 81. Yeah. And they're unpacking these boxes.

And if I find this article, literally they're pulling out a lindrum or whatever was before the lindrum. Yeah. And the whole entire article is 45 years before AI comes because they go from, well, first, Michael's like, well, your days are number. He's talking to like some drum in the room like, your day's a number because we could just do this. And the drummer's like, yeah, but won't have the same feel and da-da-da-da-da.

And then they went from that. He's like, and the engineer says, well, don't worry. One day, they'll have computers. that will just mimic a voice and da-da-da-da-da. And Michael's like, well, it won't have the emotion like if she's out. Like literally. Wow, I'd love to see that. They're predicting.

So that's how I knew that a future was coming because literally the entire article was Michael Jackson pulling out keyboards and all this stuff. But hearing it, when I heard your thing, then I was like, this is what they're talking about that Michael Jackson article. Like futuristic, spacey shit. But it did sound futuristic. That was the thing. The DMX and Lynn really didn't.

So you knew there was a machine that existed and... I knew there were machines that existed. And then when I was told it was an 808, I went and listened to it. Where did you go to listen to it? I think, man, he's a Sam Ash. You know, one of the... They were right next to one. How much were they back then?

Probably three grand or something? I don't know. So it was out of the question for you? No, I wasn't going to buy it. No, we were going to rent. We rented the machine and the guy for $25. Does that guy know that that machine is the... Well, I would have guessed he would have at the time, you know?

Did you let him hear the end result? No, this is the craziest thing. He basically wanted cash and not a check. So we didn't have his name. We didn't have his full name. Yeah. You know what I'm saying? Right.

Really? His name was Joe, but we never got his last name. Can you believe that? That's... How much did he want cash? 25 instead of the check. He was afraid Tom would bounce the check on him. $25.

$200? Oh. Dollars, man. Wait, $25? Yeah. Motherfuck, I just give my wallet like here. 25 bucks. You serious?

No, I'm totally serious, yeah. Crazy. And here's the thing. So he came in and we had the basic beat. You know, boom, tap, boom. You know, we had the beat, and we had the beat. gave him that and he programmed it and then Bam said you told him what to do yeah yeah yeah for sure but then but then he showed me how to do it so I programmed some other stuff the common what about

that switch up that ban with the beat switches yeah that's that was super sperm we had two different beats yeah it's that's weird yeah that is super sperm so that was bam you know he wanted super sperm for the change but all the percussion I did the percussion he should showed me the cowbells, the highhats. He showed me how to, you know, play it. Play it with that one key that you could play it live. And then it would, you know. So you made the track first?

We made the beach first. Right, okay, right. And then John Ruby, who played the keys, then he came in and he played keys on top, live. That's all live? That's all live. There's no, no sequencing at Plina Rock at all. Even the ding, ding, ding, ding.

That's like with a delay, right, all that stuff. There's no sequencing in that at all. Okay, so how are you formatting? Well, we had A and B. You know, we just sort of, you know, there was a switch that you have the A section and the B section. But you realize that Planet Rock is taken from the... All right, so George Clinton had a theory, which is like every song should have miniature songs in them. Not just NeNe Deep's a great example.

There's really eight songs inside of that 15-minute song. Whereas with this song There's not a chorus, but There's at least seven That's what I'm saying. So are you saying Okay, give me something for eight bars What'd you got?

No, no. I actually was more... Like, who's the leader like... Well, rock, rock, the planet rock. Right. That was me. And what device is that? That was just a microphone

going through a PCM... No, I'm not saying it. I'm saying I gave them that hook because do you know the record Body Music by the Stryker? You finally struck me for a song, I don't know. If you don't know, I'm going to send it to you. It is probably my favorite record of that time.

Okay. And they have a thing in that rock, rock, rock, the disco rock, don't stop. And I made rock rock, rock, rock, the planet rock. Wow. Okay. Okay. So you have to hear that. I played it last night, and it still rocks it.

It will become one of your favorite. I can't believe you don't know it. I probably know and don't know it. No, you would, you, okay. So there was that hook. and then the Rock and No Stop It was That was one of the things Soul Sonic would do That they were doing their routines

Party people, that was, you know, Bambata So literally it's each bit is someone else came up The crowd, like I'm thinking you guys are doing this at the garden No, there's some kids, they're friends Everyone went in It was this 12 people sounded like Well we put the PCM 41 to give it that electronic sound And Jay Burnett did the...

Oh, and singing the hook. Like, those were kids? Yeah. Really? Yeah, they were kids, young girls. Oh, wow. Yeah, but then Jay Burnett, who was the engineer, did the, like, Brooklyn Rocks to the Planet Rock, Don't Stop.

So he did it through the mic with the slapback on the PCM 41. So literally, and then Tom, he was going through the Fairlight, which was a sample of which you couldn't really use. to sample in. Well, Farallite was expensive as shit back then. Yeah, but they had one at the studio. How much were Farallites back then? Like 100 grand or something? They didn't pay it. It was on lease or whatever, you know?

Oh, God. But he was going through the sounds and then he went, boom, boom, whimp! And we were like, we got to keep the orchestra hit. And that is, after that record, that created the orchestra hit and dance records. You know, so many things

in Planet Rock that became stapled. Day before yesterday of this in my Instagram feed, someone finally breaks down. I don't know what the Stravinsky song is, that that hit comes from, but they were explaining that when the guys invented the Farrellight, they were like, wait a minute, we better give them some source sounds to deal with.

To show what it could- To deal with. And the first thing is, they just happened to have a Stravinsky record, and the first hit was, br-d-da-da-da-da-da-da-da, and then... Wow. Well, that is Tom Silverman's. hitting, he was going through different things, and then we all went like that.

It was one of those moments and we got to use that, you know. Probably the most innovative idea of that song that never gets discussed, is that's also the first 12 inch in which there's instrumentals, there's bonus beats, there's different mixes. Bonus beat, the name, Tom. That was a marketing thing, bonus beat. Got it. He said, we should, you know, the a cappella stuff, that, you know, Larry Levan with Don't Make Me Wait, that was like the first record that had Acapella. Then I used Walking on Sun, well, Walking on Sunshine was after, so yeah.

When do you immediately know, holy shit, I invented fire? I played it at a record pool party and everyone just, you know, I think it was Judy Weinstein's. I'm not sure, but I remember playing at a record pool party and people, which. just, you know, when, what the, you know, it was one of, when you first heard it, what the fuck was that, you know? And that was even with just the instrumental, because a lot of people in the beginning played the instrumental side. They weren't Afrofuturist then.

They weren't dressing up in those spacey costumes and none of that stuff, right? Like, this song forced them to be that. That forced them to be that. They were not like that. They were wearing snorkel coat, you know, they were like. At what point did they realize? Like, did they ever show any gratitude? Hey.

Yeah. Well, they, after that. they trusted me and, you know, because when we did perfect beat, that was very different, too. Speaking of John and keyboards, there's no way you're not going to tell me that that perfect beat opening line wasn't. Perfect beat. Could you loop back then? Yeah, that was sequenced.

Okay, so talk about sequence culture in 1982 because. That was 83. Or in 83. Well, there was a big difference. How do you sequence back then? Oh, so technology. Yeah, it changed. It had changed.

You know, step sequencing. do a note and, you know, it was step sequence and you'd press a button and do a note, and it could either be 16th or 8, so, you know, it was really... And you could speed as fast as you want to slow as you want... Yeah, yeah. It would sync to the drum machine, I mean... I was going to say, how did it sync to the drum machine and the keyboard? It had, you know... So the earliest MIDI?

Midi, a MIDI clock. So was MIDI in 80s thing? Or was MIDI even the 70s thing? No, it was 80s thing. Okay. The guy who did Mr. K. from Roland and this other guy, David, who I thought... think was either from Lynn or one of the other drum machines they created MIDI together to link all these machines up because nothing was sinking.

I mean, Oberheim did the system made famous by the group the system, which was a drum machine, a sequencer, and the OB8. So that was made, you didn't need another box. You could just sync that up together. The box was part of the- And he was the nerd that was going to do all the- The engineers would have to learn that shit. You know, tease me like, yo, tease me.

Yeah, no, I had no part of that. John Roby was good with the rolling stuff and sequencing. But, yeah, looking for the perfect beat. We give all of our love to Planet Rock. Yeah. But also, like, I mean, we can't sleep on looking for the perfect beat, which I, you know, can they do it again? And it's a resounding yes. So was there pressure to like...

Oh, yeah. Now, the group were on the road. They're on the road. They're like... But what's their problem? repertoire when they just have a seven-minute song. I just Planet Rock and Bam had, they had some other, you know, they had their stuff that they would do on, you know, before Planet Rocks.

I'm going for Springsteen levels. The Roots had to have a two and a half hour show. And surprise, back when we had one hour amount, we have four hour shows. So in my mind, I'm thinking, okay, do a cover song, a bunch of solos, da-da-da-da-da-da. But back then, would you just have to have a 15-minute show? Yeah, they'd go out with the DJ. you know, they would go out with Jazzy Jay, I think. And he'd play a set, and then they'd come out and do call and response, audience participation. Favorite jeans?

Yeah, they do other stuff, and then they do Planet Rock. Was there any question or how do we do this live? No, they play the track and rap over it. I mean, it was like a TV track or whatever. But never at no point was like we might have to get a keyboard player or a German machine program or? Not at that point. No, no. At some point, at some point I think they may

have, well, Flash had he had a drum machine. So he did. He played the beatbox. That was like, he did do that. A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care which I'm saying. Yep, that's me. Cliver Taylor the 4th. You might have

seen the skits, the reactions, my journey from basketball to college football, or my career in sports media. Well, somewhere along the way, this platform became bigger than I ever imagined. And now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show. This is a place for raw, unfiltered conversations with some of your favorite athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. One week, I'll take you behind the scenes of the biggest moments in sports and entertainment, and the next

we'll talk about life, mental health, purpose, and even music. The Clifford Show isn't just a podcast. It's a space for honest conversations, stories that don't always get told, and for people who are chasing something bigger. So if you've ever supported me or you're just chasing down a dream, this is right what you need to be. Listen to the Clifford show on the IHeart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok podcast network on TikTok. There's two golden rules that any man should live by. Rule one, never mess with a country girl. You play stupid games, you get stupid prizes. And rule two, never mess with friends either. We always say that trust your girlfriends. I'm Anna Sinfield and in this new season

of the girlfriends, oh my God, this is the same man. A group of women discover they've all dated the same prolific con artist. I felt like I got hit by a truck. I thought how could this happen to me? The cops didn't seem to care. So they take matters into their own hands. I said, oh hell no. I vowed. I will be his last target. He's going to get what he deserves. Listen to the girlfriends. Trust me, babe. On the Iheart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. What's up, everyone?

I'm Ego Vodom. My next guest, you know from Step Brothers Anchorman, Saturday Night Live, and the Big Money Players Network. It's Will Ferrell. My dad gave me the best advice ever. I went and had lunch with them one day, and I was like, and Dad, I think I want to really give this a shot. I don't know what that means, but I just know the groundlings. I'm working my way up through, and I know it's a place that come look for up and coming talent. He said, if it was based solely on talent, I wouldn't worry about you, which is really sweet. He goes, but there's so much

luck involved. And he's like, just give it a shot. He goes, but if you ever reach a point where you're banging your head against the wall and it doesn't feel fun anymore, it's okay to quit. If you saw it written down, it would not be an inspiration. It would not be on a camera. It would not be on a calendar of, you know, the cat. Just hang in there. Yeah, it would not be. Right, it wouldn't be that. There's a lot of luck.

Listen to Thanks, Dad, on the IHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. This week on the Sports Slice podcast, it's all about the NFL draft. And we've got a special guest. The director of the NFL's East West Shrine Bowl, Eric Galco, joins the Sports Slice podcast to break down what really matters when evaluating draft prospects, from hidden traits teams look for to the biggest mistakes franchises make to the players flying under the radar.

This is the insight you won't hear anywhere else. If you want to understand the draft like an insider, you don't want to miss this episode. Listen to the Sports Slice Podcast on the IHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more, follow Timbo Slica Life 12 and TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok. In 2023, former bachelor star Clayton Eckerd found himself at the the center of a paternity scandal. The family court hearings that followed revealed glaring inconsistencies in her story.

This began a years-long court battle to prove the truth. You doctored this particular test twice in so-ins, correct? I doctored the test once. It took an army of internet detectives to crack the case. I wanted people to be able to see what their tax dollars were being used for. Sunlight's the greatest disinfected. They would uncover a disturbing pattern. Two more men who'd been through the same thing.

S-B-N-N-Ga-Machini. My mind was blown. I'm Stephanie Young. This is Love Trap. Laura, Scottsdale Police. As the season continues, Laura Owens finally faces consequences. Ladies and gentlemen,

breaking news at Maricopa County as Laura Owens has been indicted on fraud charges. This isn't over until justice is served in Arizona. Listen to Love Trapped podcast on the I-Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Speaking of which, okay, so what were your general thoughts? Oh, this is a great example. I always said on the show that it's never the pioneer that gets the credit,

the person that comes right after. So, of course, Numbers is the spark and Planet Rocks the 12-alarm fire. So what are your feelings in 83 when you're hearing like Scorpio by Grand Master Flash and Furies 5, or you're hearing Nafeesh its time? or basically, so I'm a Philadelphia and Grover Washington Juniors from Philadelphia and Mr. Magic was mammoth. Yeah, but of course, D.C. is like, we'll take that.

And even to this day, I argue with D.C. people. I'm like, yo, dog, okay, granted, you guys have go-go, but you should acknowledge that you got it from a Philadelphia artist and y'all took it. You know, as far as the city's concerned, like I can pinpoint you were there. You were doing this type of music over singing, but we weren't calling it New Jack Swing.

You know, Miami will take that record and make a trillion records out of it. The Latin Italian culture will take it and call it freestyle. Detroit will take it and call it techno. So for you, what is your feeling come 83, 84 when now, like you basically help film the blues? Like, you can't copyright one, four, five chords.

Yeah, but, you know, I didn't, I had no problem with it. I just didn't want to repeat myself. Everyone else was repeating it. I didn't want to do it to the extent that when Michael Johnson brought me Pack Jam to put out on my label, I said, nah, that's give it, I gave it to Tommy Boy, which was. You didn't want Pac-Jam? Well, I just said, you know, that's a Tommy Boy record. Tell me about Michael Johnson.

And all right, so when we first heard Candy Girl, like we ran with that lie so quick. We just thought it was Michael Jackson. He was our producers. Michael Jackson. Oh, my God, Michael Jackson produced this. Like, in our minds. You heard Michael Jackson.

Right. And it was Michael. And it was Michael Johnson. So tell me about Michael Johnson's role in Boston folklore and... Well, Michael and Maurice. So they were, you know... And Murray Star, shout out of the mirror. Of course.

Was he always... dressing like a captain? No. Okay. That became the thing he wanted to be like Colonel Tom Parker. Right, right, right. No, I mean, I met their brother, Sonny, Donnie Johnson at the studio at Intermedia. And then I met those guys and I started using them on my records, Michael and Maurice.

And the two of them, the most talented people I had ever met, because they could play everything. Michael could play sax, drums, guitar. they played literally everything. And I tried to get them a record deal with Howard Smiley from TK. And we saw them, and it was just like it was too close to the Jackson's. It was like the Johnson brothers.

But they were really talented. And they were, but they weren't original. They could write things that sounded like. They have tracks that they've done that I have the demos. Sounds like the Bee Gees, but they're like hits,

but they sound literally just like the Beech. So a smarter barcase. I'm sorry, that's my insight, too. Every Barca's song is derivative. Sounded like something else, yeah. No, I mean, but that's real. Well, Barcai's second generation, first generation, Solfinger, come on, those were pretty creative, right? But also.

Yeah, okay, Soul Figure, I'll give them. But literally every 99. It could have been a cameo, it could have been Earth, Wind, and Fire. Yeah, but the thing is also like when you're, and I get it, like my dad explained to me that, you know, a lot of these guys are bar bands, house bands, you have to learn. All the covers, yeah. Yeah, exactly. Everything. I think now there's at least 7,000 songs in our canon since I've been at the Tonight Show.

Wow. Well, I mean, back then we were like, oh God, like 15. Holy. No, no, literally I would just put a song on shuffle. Yeah. Whoever it is, and I'll play for 10 seconds, stop it. Right. And be like, all right, let's go three notes under.

And I will code to the member of the roots that is not too strong in dictation. Like, if you tell me, I'll say you go to my keyboard play Ray I'll be like that-da-da-da-da-da and he'll do so I purposely go to him that might not pay attention

and he'll come up with something else and then that's where we build a foundation and so but I understand that but wow I would love to hear those demos I meet them and basically I moved to New York and we're still friends and they're playing on my records right and then

Maurice comes Here's where I guess Michael actually brought me the Johnson crew Pac-Man it was called it first and he brought it to me

to sort of capitalize off of a video game culture Yeah of course yeah Damn okay And then he claimed he didn't know about the video game I mean really? Yeah but it wasn't true

Okay So there was also a tribute song Yeah called Pac-Man Fever That came out that was like a massive hit so But so he brings it to me And I'm like Let Tom hear it

So Tom signed it. I also gave Tom the Force MDs, too. We went to Bronx River Center, me and Tom, bringing Candy Girl, the acetate, the test pressing for Bambata and Jazzy Jay. And they played it, and obviously everyone went mental. Right. And then they were called the fours MCCs then. Right. They come out and do a set.

And we're both going, wow, they're really good. And I go, yeah, but I have new addition. So, Tom, you can have them. I mean... Wow. Yeah. You did them a solid. Yeah.

How long does it take for you... Like, how do you coach kids? How do I coach them? I have Maurice coach them. So basically, they're coming to New York, and Michael gave me Pack Jam. I gave it to Tom. And then Maurice is like staying at my... I'm living in Cobble Hill in Brooklyn, rented an apartment from Mel Sharon, West End Records, his apartment.

And Maurice, one night, he's staying over and he comes back. And he's really sad. And like, Maurice is always just like... He's a real hype man. You know, he's like always. And I go, what's wrong? He said, oh, I got this song, and I brought it to Sylvia Robinson,

and she turned me down. And I brought it to Sylvia Rohn, and she turned me down. And I said, well, I got a label, man, let me hear it. And he put on the cassette, and it was Candy Girl. I was like, you got a record deal. And my partner flew back to Boston with him, and we signed the deal.

How fast did this session take? We went right to the album. Because they had done. all that stuff. She gives me bang and jealous girl. Yeah, yeah. You did all that. We did a whole album, yeah. I mean, he had demos, but I said, let's get an album. We went right to the album. Did you instantly feel like you were going to strike a hole?

Yeah, you were a kid. You thought it was a hit? Yeah, no, no, no. No, we knew. I mean, I couldn't believe that Sylvia Robinson turned it down. I mean, think about that. That's, can you imagine new edition? Well, actually, new edition, sort of did end up with them when Morris Levy. Yeah, with the MCA deal. So why didn't they stick with you once they signed the MCA? No, no, here's the thing. This is, I'll give you like, this is like.

Give me the real. This is a real deal. Okay. We didn't sign the group. We signed a production deal with Maurice. Maurice had them signed, and we signed a deal with him, which was common back then. That was the way it was done. He came to us and said, I'd have this.

group. We didn't think it through far enough to know that we should have got lawyers and but we signed a deal with him, which was really common. If I was a producer when I was doing a record and there was a singer, I'd give the singer the deal. I'd own the record. I'd own the production and the record label would pay me and I was meant to pay the group. Now, the only thing that went wrong with this was they were kids. And imagine. Massachusetts, the laws were that literally... They signed the contracts before they were... They were of age.

Now, in New York, fast forward a few years when he did new kids on the block, he came to New York, recorded at my studio, and he was able to sign them under New York law, which was, yeah, you could have... Did you work on new kids on the block? No, he just worked in my studio. Damn it. Did a remix. I did the right stuff. I did a few remixes for him. But even with him with new kids on the block,

did you think like you'll strike gold? Well, I never doubted him at that point. I didn't doubt him, you know. Okay. I mean, but I'm just saying, so that's why, when the kids always say, when new addition say, oh, they gave us VHS players. We gave them VHS machines so they could watch their videos

because they didn't have them. I mean, it's just the whole stories. And literally, we signed the deal with Maurice and Michael. We didn't sign it with them. So any of their anger and shit should have gone to them. Got it. And, you know, that never gets really that. It's all this time.

We sign a production deal and not directly to the label. And that was the deal, you know. By this point, by 83, 84, I know you got to at least have five good, could have had them, could have got away. Who? Well, I just told you two of them. Give me three. Bismarkey. How did you come into?

Mr. Magic brought him. to shakedown. Mr. Magic was sort of repping him. He was his manager at the time. And we went in the studio to do a demo. Okay.

This was probably 85. You know, it was not 83. This was after Beat Street. Okay. Well, Beach Street, Dougie Fresh. He was in Beach Street. Yeah, yeah. And we tried to sign him and then someone else.

David Lucchase, who was like, our promo guy, ended up signing him to... two reality records or... Damn, you could have had... I missed him. I missed Bismarkey. At the time, did you think, like, I don't know what to do with this guy or...

No, I was not... I was on drugs. Okay. I was on cocaine, you know. I forgot that part of your life. Yeah, I was not too clear-minded. But he came in the studio, and Keith LeBlanc happened to be there. And Keith made beats.

to give him a click track. So he's rapping. And recently, I mean, I feel sort of bad how this turned out, but now it's actually I've turned it around. I auctioned that tape off with... What was the one that tape? The Bismarkey tape. Okay.

But here's the thing. His wife won the auction. Nice. So I felt really bad that I took her money, but, you know, I had to pay for my documentary. So I was auctioning things up. But now we're friends, and I'm trying to help her get that out as a record as something.

So it's a complete. song or? Well, it's five or six different, a lot of his things that became songs later on. But he does a rap thing about New York. I mean, it's good. There's some stuff on there. I got to hear this. Yeah, you got to hear that. But I miss that. And then obviously, famously now is Mariah. Yeah. Okay. So at the time, did you? I thought she was going to be the biggest star in the world. Okay. So this is what I'm saying. Now that we're in such an era. And I'm not saying that there's a lack of talent, you know, but it's just so much information.

Oh, Fat Joe also. Really? I missed on that. I sent that to Monica. Because I didn't have a label at the time. It wasn't, you know. He came to my apartment in Upper West Side, was sitting on the floor playing cassette.

He probably doesn't even remember, but him also. Him with stories, he'll remember this. For me, like right now, with this new year about to come up, like 2006, I will say that maybe I have expectations to hear maybe three songs

I like which coming from a person three songs you like all year or this year. I don't know if just the bandwidth in me has slowed down like I'll hear three songs in which it's like word

or sad enough maybe there'll be two artists that are really good the song might not hit me, but in my mind, I'll imagine, like, yeah, they came out 85, this would have changed my life for, that sort of thing. And I'm trying not to get to that, you know, that grumpy, I'm my dad thing. But, I mean, back then, everyone had mind-blowing talent. So, like, how do you know that this person, Mariah Carey, might just be a step above? She was writing her own songs, first of all.

And that was this unheard of Beckman? Well, I've gotten slagged off for this, but I said she, when I heard her, she sounded like Whitney, and she wrote songs like Madonna. That's what I thought in my mind. Dude, she has a pop gift. When I heard that, that's what I thought. I thought literally voice like Whitney writing songs like Madonna. I totally get what she's.

And I was like, oh my God, Tommy Mottola got the tape too, you know. Where would you have taken her? Well, I was trying to take her to Warner's. I was trying to take her to MCA. I mean, I did attempt to it, but Tommy was, you know, he had a lot more power, you know. Got it. But I knew, I knew. It isn't like, you know, I didn't go home to my wife at the time, another, my second wife, and say, this girl's, I knew.

I mean, there's no way you, if you hear this tape and you put yourself back in time, you'll go, oh, shit, because they all, I mean, they all sound like, and the production was great, too, you know, it was just really, it was there. The mute, it was there. Okay, so look, obviously this is going to go to Jimmy Jam levels where this shakes could be seven hours. So I'm going to have to do a part two for you. I'm going to have to stop at two hours. However, in closing, can you give me a Morris Levy story? Yeah, okay.

What did he teach you? He teach me, don't get into partnership with the mafia. That's what he taught me. Here's the thing. Tommy Motola, this is before. Or Mariah. This is like when I'm working with Holland Notes. Okay, Tommy is my manager also.

So he's my manager during that era. Right. And through him, I would meet, you know, we'd go down to the feast and little Italy and we'd go to places. And, you know, I was like hanging out with him and the priests and, you know, some friends. Yeah, our friends. And when Streetwise was about to go bust, we got because we had given so much credit

out for the new edition album. Right. That basically people are going under with our money. So like you give someone a hundred grand's worth of credit because they're going to buy, you know, 20,000 new edition albums. So you're saying that even having a successful record could also be a curse? Well, it could put you out of business if you're not smart enough.

The irony of that. Yeah, I know. Like you're so successful. And then you go out of business and you can't pay the artist. The only people are making the money of the, of the distributors. who's gone out of business and kept all the cash. That's what would happen, okay? But basically we're going under,

and then somehow I'm connected with Morris Levy, about he wants to buy into the label. Obviously, him thinking, new addition, I'm sure. I was off my face on cocaine. Got it. And Tommy said, no, man. The one piece of advice Mottola gave me that I should have listened to

that I didn't was don't go into partnership with him. Well, not that it really, not that anything bad happened other than I lost everything, you know. Was he a strong arm? Yeah. But not, no. Some friends of ours baseball bat? No, no, not with me. No, no.

He would have. Just rip you off. Well, no. I mean, his technique was charming guy. To me, I'd go in and he would know I, he had to know I was coked out, you know. Okay. And basically, I'd go into his office. and there'd be all these guys with the gold.

And it was the Sopranos. Literally, they were there. Right. They were all in his office, and he'd be telling stories. And he told me one story about Tommy James. Now, Tommy James was a junkie. Okay.

But Tommy James was on roulette and making all these great hit records. Does he Tommy James and the Clemson and Clompson and Clove? Yeah, I mean, come on. Those are multi-million selling records. Right. So he wanted to get them clean up, because he wanted him to keep producing for the company, right?

So he had him go up to the farm, his horse farm, like Hesh, had. He did have a horse farm. I went to the horse farm. He had them go up, and he went cold turkey. And he's like, yeah, and we cleaned them up. And then he never had another fucking hit. And that was the story, and I was like, oh, shit, is this aimed at me? And then we had a blind bid for, you.

for the label and he said, you know, I don't want to be partners anymore and he outbid me and it was, I lost the whole thing and the new addition, you know, it was, that's my main, the worst thing in my business life was that situation. All right, I'm going to tell you, it's not a connected story, but there's a friend of mine who saw the slide doc. And, you know, instantly I was, I mean, it wasn't like I was expecting across the board's accolades like, so what'd you think? What'd you think? Sometimes you'll ask what you think, knowing that, yeah, you're going to get praise or whatever.

And they kind of shocked me with something that stuck with me. They were like, I don't agree with, you know, the moralizing stance about, like, that drugs destroy Sly. And I was like, no, I've done the research. I think they destroyed Sly. And they left me with a gym that I can't get out of my head. And they basically said, well, according to your movie, if we remove all psychedelics, then music would suck. Yeah, maybe. And then I walked away and now I can't unhear.

I can't unhear. Well, those drugs, I mean, those drugs back then, the psychedelics, come on. That definitely made you think outside the box for sure. Right. Exactly. Cocaine didn't, though. cocaine, there's nothing positive about the cocaine experience. It didn't give you, listen, I'm not asking this as an advocate.

Like, should I try it one day? No, I would answer you honestly. What it did do is keep you up all night. Now being- See, that's weird. I stay up anyway. Yeah, but that's you. Okay.

You know what I mean? I'm like, it is possible to stay up without. Yeah, it is. And I did afterwards. I didn't stop producing after I stopped cocaine at 87. So it isn't like I did it through the 90s or whatever. I'm just saying that literally it didn't, you know, and what it did do is make your records brighter

because everything was dull on cocaine, so you had to push all the high end. Really? Yeah, that's why looking for the perfect beat has not a lot of low end and it's really bright. Go back and listen to another record. Yeah, yeah, no. I'm going to take away from this.

All right, of course we didn't touch into... We never make it past 84. Right. Beach Street, Beach Street, Harry Bill of Fonte. We are definitely doing a part two. But I wanted to end it with the Least of Morris Levy's story. And I'm a man of my word. I always wanted to have you on the show because I got a trillion questions.

And thank you for everything that you've done. I promise a return on the Questlove show from the God himself, Arthur Baker. Thank you. And we will see you on the next go round. It's been great, man. Thank you. Questlove show is hosted by me. Amir Questlove Thompson.

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