The Questlove Show - Black Music Month QLS Classic: Jimmy Jam Part 3

Episode Date: June 5, 2026

In part 3 of this truly classic Questlove Supreme interview (being re-broadcast for Black Music Month), Jimmy Jam talks about everything from what Janet and Michael's sibling relationship was like, to his relationship with his own family and shares even more insider secrets.  See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I-heart podcast. Guaranteed Human. It's that time to put on your jersey and wave your flag, whoever you root for. Why do I watch the walk up? That's like asking me, why do I breed? And it's beautiful. The guys are young and cute and fit.

It's not just a game. It's your culture. I like watching it with my dad. It's a connecting force. From Futuro Studios, I'm Fernanda Chavari, and this is American football, a show about soccer culture in the U.S. and its underdog roots. Listen to American football on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Joy is essential and it's also elusive, but now there's a new and exciting way to start your journey toward a more joyful existence.

Joy 101. It's a new podcast hosted by me, Hoda Kot me. If you're craving inspiration to maximize your joy, tune into these candid, uplifting, and moving on-air chats. Open your free IHeart Radio app. Search Joy 101 and Listen Now. Joy 101 with Hoda Kotfi is presented by CVS. All right, listen up. The Jonas Brothers here.

Our podcast is called, Hey Jonas. We're here, since everyone has a podcast, we wanted to as well. And we've had some incredible guests so far. And now our good friend, Nile Horn, is joining the show. How's it going, boys? Hey, Niall. It was the same thing with slow hands. It's all hands is not about anything else, really, is it?

You know, or taste so good can't be about food. You do the same, Nick, with some of the stuff that you've done. You too, Joe. Drop what you're doing and listen to Hey Jonas on the Iheart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your podcasts. Questlove Supreme is a production of Iheart Radio. This classic episode was produced by the team at Pandora. Hey, what's up, y'all? This is Questlo.

And as you noticed, throughout June, We are celebrating Black Music Month by releasing an episode every day. So, every day, you're either going to hear a special pick QLS classic. Now, for part one, part two, and part three of my all-time favorite QLS episode, this is the legendary Jimmy Jam. Ladies and gentlemen, this experience with Jimmy Jam, talking with him for almost six hours was such a dream come true. wanted it to end.

This particular episode, we talk about working with Michael Jackson, a lot of career advice in running a record label, and a lot of... It's so much, you know, too much information. We really hope you enjoyed this Jimmy Jam episode as much as we enjoyed doing it. All right, here it is. Part 3 of the QLS Classic Interview with producer Jimmy Jam. There's a question I have. about Rhythm Nation, which I often debate with,

with Rebys, Michael's nephew, Austin, about the effect, the crippling effect that I feel the knowledge had on Michael Jackson, or just at least the first three songs of that record. I love that. I love this. No, no, no, but I love this. I love where this is going. I've watched, because I've watched a few interviews where he's mentioned in a kind of

modest, or way, like, oh, you know, Janice's and no, no. But knowing what I know about his vocal style and what it became, I felt that, I felt that what control was for Prince, Rhythm Nation was for Michael. into a crippling effect because soon after literally everything that he released post 1990

was him chasing those first three songs Rhythm Nation State of the World and the knowledge He told Babyface Dad Remember? Well no no I mean

Do you know the baby face story about When he first flew them to Neverland Ranch to work on the dangerous record, did he ever tell you the... Uh-uh. His first... Okay, so, baby face... So when they're working on Jermaine's You Said record, and suddenly they get a call saying, I'm, you know, helicopter to Havenhurst. And when they first get there, they're like, so, you know, what do you like, what do you like from?

They're trying to figure out what he knows of theirs. And he says, well, I really, really like Rhythm Nation. Part of me actually feels like he was nagging them. Like, I think he's intelligent enough to read album critics to know the difference between L.A. and Babyface and Jimmy Jammer and Terry Lewis. And, you know, they corrected him. It was like, well, you know, we didn't do that.

that, right? It's like, I know, but I still like it. That's great. So, yeah, it's, and again, it's like, my favorite record of hers is Janet. I feel like the most important record was controlled, but I feel like the most impactful was probably, at least with stylistically and how it affected Michael. I mean, when you make Michael Jackson's paradigm shift, then that says something. And I always felt as though that record crippled him

in ways that he's never recovered. Like, every song was like that 16th note like off the one. Like everything was that. Like, what was, was there any feedback from him whatsoever? Was it like in her head, like, yeah, it's really going to fuck him up.

now like like there was janet janet never had any sort of she was never competitive um she oh she was competitive um but not towards him in anyway um she never had anything um she never had anything that i ever sensed her that she ever said that was in any way like i'm going to show michael on this one or anything like that there was never anything like that her her her respect for him was way beyond any sort of competitiveness with him.

He was competitive toward her. I will say that because I can tell you that means

you guys are doing a job. I can tell you the whole scream story that was that, but interestingly

enough, yes, the knowledge, I have a handwritten note from Michael that talks about the

bridge and the knowledge and the sound that's on there and can I can, can we do something that sounds like that

on the bridge of our song? He had taped it to my keyboard because I wasn't there. He taped it to my keyboard. And I still have that. I see, you still have that note. Does he print or write in cursive? I'm sorry, I just need to know.

This was print. No, this was print, I believe. I think this was print. Because he has an immaculate cursive. You know what? I never, actually, honestly, I didn't pay attention. Maybe it is cursive. I don't know.

I didn't pay attention. I just saw the note that just said, Jimmy Jam, can we use the sound? that's whatever that sound is in the knowledge. But I actually got, it was funny because when I, we were working with, with Michael, uh,

on the, on that history album. And I remember him being obsessed with if. And he really liked if. And I remember saying, no, I said, yeah,

if is cool, Michael. I said, I don't know. I said, you know, that's the way love goes was a much bigger record. It was?

And I said, yeah. So that's the way I love goes was like number one for eight weeks or something. I said, you know, if was like top five. I said, but it wasn't. I said, no, I really like that if. And it's like, no. He likes that brace yourself, that five second stadium sizzle.

Like, and that's what, like, Rhythm Nation was probably the first stadium black album. Because even with bad, just that intro, yeah, yeah, yeah, maybe the way you make me feel like, Didn't have the grandiose intro of every, like every song was stadium ready. Yeah. For Rhythm Nation. Yeah. No, he definitely like, I mean, he was,

he told us how much he loved it. And, and wanted to, and always, why do you never ask you guys to produce his records? Well, we did. We did, we ended up doing songs on, well, 91. But after the fact.

Well, I mean, honestly, we, first of all, the records he made with Quincy Jones to me were the greatest records ever. So I was like, I didn't even really want to work with Michael, quite honestly. If he wouldn't have asked to do the Janet duet, you know, we probably never would have worked with him. That's the reason we worked with him. And it was interesting because I remember Janet, or Michael called, I'm trying to think where his folks called our folks or whatever. say Michael wants to do a song as a duet with Janet and my first thought was I'm calling it no it wasn't no my first thought was I'm going to call

Janet and see is she cool is she aware with it you know of this and then my biggest thing was I feel as a producer and also her friend and confidant I'm there to protect her and I want to make sure that whatever the process is that's happening that she's protected at all times

and when I say that it was interesting what you just said about Michael and kind of his you know his story with L.A. and Babyface when he said, I really like Rhythm Nation. That's hilarious to me because I remember when we were doing scream

and I remember I told Janet to come to Minneapolis while we were doing the tracks because Michael said, just put together some tracks and we'll figure it out what it is. And I remember we put a bunch of tracks together and then we just kind of said, okay, I said, Janet, you need to just sit here. I just need your inspiration, you know.

And so I remember when we did the track that ended up being scream, I remember Janet said, that's the one he's going to like. And I said, how do you know? And she said, because I know my brother. And I said, okay. So, but the song she really liked and the song that we liked was ended up becoming runaway. Oh, wow.

Yeah, because. He could have runaway? Yeah, we thought that that was. Yo! Yeah, we thought that was the record. Yo, he could have killed that shit. Right, that's what we thought. So when we did, so when we did,

so when we did Runaway, when we did Runaway was funny, and we didn't know it was going to be called Runaway. I mean, obviously that the song didn't exist. It was just the track. But when we did the track, we just were like, wow, this feels so nice. This is so cool, right?

And so she said, I remember she said put it on the cassette, but I hope he doesn't like it because I want it for me. And I said, okay, cool. So certain enough, we played the songs. We went to the hit factory, flew to New York, went to hit factory, he blasted these songs super loud. And then he would say, yeah, that sounds really good.

Can I hear number two again, please? Okay, so they'd play number two, and they played a couple other ones. And then he goes, okay, I think, I think we're going to go with number two. I really like number two. And number two ended up being scream. And Jenna looked at me like, I told you so, but also like, I'm glad he didn't pick you. Glad he didn't.

So anyway, so the next day we went to, ironically, Trump Tower, where he had, where Michael had his penthouse and stuff. And we, and Michael already had conceptually what he wanted. He wanted a record that lashed out at the press and everything. everybody that doubted him or was critical of him. And that's why that tracked works so well, because for him it was the aggressiveness of doing that. Whose idea was fucking? You know what? I honestly don't remember.

I don't remember whether he said that as we were recording it or if, I don't think we suggested it because I don't think we would ever. I was about to say, did you write the word stop? fucking with me. No, it was stopped pressuring me, but he wrote the lyrics on that. We didn't write the lyrics on screen. Okay. That was totally his thing and even as

he was writing the lyrics we were like, okay, yeah, we get that. Oh. But why would you want to drudge up any animosity toward the press or anybody at this point? Because right now

he was at it, and he was at a really happy point of his life. He had just I don't know whether, I think him and Lisa Maria just got married. So he was a happy guy. Lisa couldn't have been nicer. You know, it was funny because I remember we asked Lisa, we said, what did you see in Michael? You know, what did you, how'd you guys fall in love?

And she just said he was the kindest person I've ever met in my life. And I totally got it. I was like, I get it. Totally get it. And I thought, now's the opportunity to, you know, if it was the runaway track or, We had heard the R. Kelly track, You Are Not Alone, and we were like, that should be the single to me.

It's like, that's where you're at in your life right now. Why go back and go pressure me and all that? That 30 seconds, I got to get the last word. He's got to get the last word. And that was the thing. And we told Sony, we told, well, it wasn't even Sony at the time. I think it was still CBS records at the time. But we told him.

We said, that's the wrong record for the first single. Also, I said just strategically, if everybody wants that duet, why give it to him at first? Give him something different. I said, he's never given the home run record as the first one. He never has. The throwaway song should have been first. And then. Yeah.

Because the girl was mine was the first one off the thrill. That's what I meant. Yeah. Yeah, but I mean, but that was our, my thing was you are not alone. I said, you just got married to Lisa Marie. You're in love. we had already done the love thing with Janet, right? We knew that's the way love goes

was the song for that album. It introduced, it said what the album was. The album was not, we argued with the record company over that. They wanted it for the single. And we're like, no, but if is like the last of rhythm nation, but remember the last impression you had of Janet

was Love will never do without you. So going from that to, that's the way love goes, is the next logical step. and they almost talked her out of it. Thank God for Chuck D. And Hank Shockley, who we played the record for,

and they told us, yeah, that if is cool, but that's the way love goes, man, is like some shoday shit. She wanted to, oh,

no, I'll tell you, I'll tell you what. I can, hopefully real quick, I can tell you what happened. We had finished a whole album. We were,

the last song we did was state, not state of the world, but, uh, new agenda. Ah, wow. With Chuck D. Right. Right.

So, We're finishing up. We finish it like three in the morning. When Janet had left, Janet had left for about two or three days to meet with Virgin about, you know, whatever. And of course now, we're in a climate of biggest recording deal ever, a ton of pressure and whatever. When Jordan Harris and Jeff Aeroff, were the two guys that were running Virgin, when we were working on the album, they came to town one day. And they said, we just want to hear whatever you're working on. That particular day we were working on if. crank that up

turned it on they were blown away they left they said we don't need to hear anything else we're good right so in their minds from that day forward

if was the single because that's what they heard and it was so straight down the middle Janet from what Janet was on rhythm nation they hadn't heard

any of the other songs didn't know any of the concept so that's the way love goes had a long kind of you know life because in creating the song. Because when I did the song,

I was like, my whole thing was, first of all, I'm the biggest James Brown fan ever, right? Papa Don't Take No Mess was one of my favorite songs. I said if I could take Papa Don't Take No Mess,

put chords over it like a real song and shake chord changes and stuff and make it all still work with the thing. If I could put the Impeach the President sample in it. I was trying to make like the ultimate hip-hop, you know, like a record Mary J. Blige would make was what I was trying to make on that record, right? But with the texture that Janet would sing on, right? And I remember there was this guy named Mark Mazetti used to work at A&M Records, and Mark Mazetti.

Nothing, no, no. Okay. No Mark Mazetti stories. Okay. So Mark came up, you know, she was on Virgin, but he just, he came up and he said, hey, I know she's not on our label. Can I hear something you're working on? And I said, oh, yeah.

Well, I just finished this track. I played him that that's the way Love Ghost track. And he went crazy. He said, oh, my God, this is the greatest. Oh, my God. I wish I was working this record, whatever, whatever. Anyway, played it for Janet. Janet goes, eh, it's okay.

And I said, wow. I said, really? She said, yeah, it's okay. So anyway, I said, okay, cool. So then about, you know, a couple weeks later, we were taking a break over Christmas. And she said, just put everything on a cassette for me to listen to. I said, okay, cool.

So I put the track on the cassette. right when she got back a couple of weeks later she landed I said what song do you want to start with she said oh my god that track that track oh my god and I said what track are you talking about that track you gave me oh my god the track you gave me I said the one you don't like oh my was no I love that track oh my god we listen to it over and over and so something about me she was in Anguila so something about being Anguila on the beach and whatever and something about it connected and I think what also happened she was over there with a bunch of her dancers and stuff and I

think they all heard it yeah and were like kind of like what they did in the video and that was kind of that that's what I think kind of happened over there so when that happened she came back she showed with booya tribe too or yeah and J-lo they weren't rather random yeah not actually but yeah but that was that was sort of the idea so anyway we actually did the song and we all agreed that that was sort of the direction of the album like that was the first you know kind of entree of what the album was going to be

when she went to L.A., we warned her. We said they're going to try to talk you in the if. I already know it. And she said, no, if's cool, but you know, what a second single may be, whatever, it's okay, cool. She comes back, she goes, yeah, the single changed to if.

We were like, no. No. No. Don't, don't, don't. No. And they were like, and she told me all the reasons. Oh, we can do a big dance video and it's Janet returns and it's whatever and we're like no but we know that's not what we've seen that already that would have changed my whole

perspective of that record right if came out for yeah so anyway so now okay so we fast forward we're finishing new agenda so three o'clock in the morning i said janet i said can we play them the two records we're thinking as singles and she said oh yeah that'd be great i said okay cool so we went in the in the studio i played that's the way love love goes, and they listened to it, and they were like viving. And we played if, and they were vibing. And we were like, okay, so what do you think? And they said, well, yeah, that if, man, that, you know,

that just sounds like Janet, man, you know, that's that, you know, that's that Janet's back and, you know, we get it, man. It's like, you know, it's like, and as he's saying that, I'm just going like, no. Right. And she's looking at me like, Janet's looking at me like, mm-hmm, see, you know, whatever.

And I'm like, damn. And then they go, but what was that other song called? That's the way love goes. That other song, you know what that song's like, that's like some Shadee shit. That's like when Shadee puts a record out,

you know, and it's no fanfare to it. It's just like, she's just got the CD, and she just kind of, of slips it down on the table and you go, oh, what is that? Oh, it's a Shaday record. Let's check that out.

You know, he said, that's like that shit. And he said, that's something about that. And I looked at her like, Mm-hmm. And that was it. And that was, so the decision was made. And thank God they were there and said that.

Because then she said, she like came back to her senses and she said, okay, yeah, that's the way love goes. It's a single. And yeah, It changed the whole direction of what the record would have been. And so, yeah, I mean, you know, there's all kinds of things like that that happened, man. It's like, it's like we can sit here and talk. We ain't even got to damn 2000, have we? Which, by the way, everybody clowned us about the length of the Red Bull interview that we did.

Whatever that was. Yeah, whatever that is. and it was funny because I said yeah but you know the problem is is that you can really pick an era and spend a couple hours talking about it if you want to go in depth with it it's tough to really do it because I said we've just been around too damn long that's the that's the problem and there's a story that leads to another story that leads to another story but there's so many angles of things of the way they turned out at the end of the day I say about all of this It's God that does this.

It flows through us, luckily. We've got the blessing to actually do it. But I guarantee you there's song, there's core changes in songs. We were talking about, somebody asked me the other day about, come back to me, the bridging come back to me. It's the same as money came by you love. That's money can by you love? Oh, you're right.

Yeah, you're right. Yeah. You win. You're right. You're right. Well, you're right. There are the same chords in there. Absolutely the same chords.

But I don't know where those chords came from. Right? Because when I was doing come back to me the track for that, that is not where I would go for a change. Like if somebody said, oh, we need a B section. I wouldn't have gone to that. You know? And even sometime today, you know,

somebody says, hey, play such and such and such. I love the change in that song. And I can't remember what it was. We were with Brno Marse the other day, who, by the way, can sing every damn song we've ever done. And I'm really well, which is something. But we were doing, I don't know whether it was come back to me or one of the other. There might have been a bend-ed-kid-kne or something.

and we were he was singing and he went to the change and I'm like going oh wait I don't wait what was I thinking that day I don't even know but it was whatever was planted in me that day that made me come up with those changes so at the end of the day man it's just you know it's just a blessing and I get to do it with somebody who I love to see every single day and but there's so many twists and turns that it you can can't really get stuck on yourself about it because there's so many other factors, man. Like if Chuck D. wouldn't have been in our life or Hank Shockley wouldn't have been in our life at that moment,

it would have taken a different turn. And that's stuff we can't control, you know. So there's a lot of good fortune that happens. What's your day to day like now? Like in terms of you and Terry writing songs, like what's a typical day like in your life? Wow. Well, a typical day in our life is a lot of family kid raising, quite honestly. We have, our kids go to the same school.

How old are your kids now? I have a 16-year-old twins, and he has a 16-year-old son. But he has a 36-year-old son. You know, Terry's been getting busy for a while. Ain't nobody bad. But Terry taught me everything that I know about parenting, and he's like the most unselfish-giving person ever in life. And so I got a chance to watch him raise his kids. And then I had mine, but then he remarried and had more kids, you know, because he just, he's the kind of person that should have kids.

And he always said that to me, because I went through most of my life, I figured I was never going to have kids. I just, I didn't want kids. and he said, Jam, you know, you have to have kids. And I'm like, why? And he said, because you have so much to offer. And he says, and somebody's got to offset all the knucklehead kids that's out of there. So you need to raise some good kids.

So we kind of have some balance. And I thought, okay, yeah, he's absolutely right. And I always feel like with my kids, it's like, y'all better do something with your life because there's no excuse. There's no excuse. You know? Talk that shit. So, so that's the thing.

So anyway, a lot of our life is, is being Uber, driving kids to school and back. My daughter just got her license, so that's scary. She's 16. I have an older son at Arizona State University.

And he's, I think, going to transfer a dean of the year maybe, but we'll see whatever he wants to do. But, I mean, a lot of it is just spinning kids' time. The nice thing is I wake up,

and now the way studios are, you know, studios in your laptop now. So I have an office at home, and any time I come up with an idea, and thank goodness the ideas just keep coming for some reason. And I can just walk over to my laptop, and I have my little keyboard and stuff, and I can just bang an idea out. And sometimes I don't even develop it. I just kind of put a little idea down, and I just kind of leave it. And then what happens most of the time is Terry will take my hard drive, and he'll say, hey, Jam, let me get some.

off to your hard drive. Okay, cool. He'll go through, listen to everything. And the next thing you know we'll have, we just did a Peebo Bryson album. Wow. And he pulled some songs off of my hard drive that I swear to God, he, because we were trying to, we never talked about how we worked together, but this is, this is one example. So he said, man, you got, we need some stuff for Pibo, man, but I wanted to be like R&B, but it's got to be forward, you know, it's got to be whatever, whatever. And it's like, okay, cool. He said, you got anything like that and I said, no, I ain't got anything like that. I said, but I'll figure something out.

So anyway, he takes my hard drive. He goes down to Atlanta. He records people. He comes back two songs that I had done, I don't know, five years ago or something, just as kind of a thing. One of them I was singing on, which was pretty bad. And anyway, he's got people on these songs. These are like probably are singles on the album. But he hears it, and he goes, I mean, one of them he played for people and people. like lost his mind. He said, oh my God,

I love this. And so Terry's like, okay, yeah, you know. So sometimes it just happens like that, but that's the great thing about having a partner, you know. Even that's, even, um, we talked about a little bit earlier whatever you done from me lately. So Terry walked

in the studio when I was cutting a track and the part that ended up being used was actually the bridge to the song. It was like a whole different song. Wait, what? It was a whole different song But the bridge went

So what was your name? I don't even remember now I don't even remember what the main part of the song is I just know Terry walked in And he said Oh, I like that Dun dun dun I like that And I said oh no that's just the bridge of the song Terry

The real song goes like this And he said no no no Just right to that bridge You know he told you right Damn hit the out So I have a question. Have you ever had to deal with Riders Block? Or does having a partner kind of prevent that from happening?

It helps. It helps a lot. Because normally we don't have it at the same time. But yeah, you definitely go through Riders Block. You go through, I mean, we've done it so long now that we've gone through a ton of periods where we just thought, oh, we're never ever going to write another song again. It's just, it just ain't there. Um, Terry went through it for a while, and I remember, though, it was because the stuff that was being offered us to do was not inspiring.

And who did you say no to? Oh, many people. Many, many, many, many, many, many people. Everyone. Not everyone. Stevie Wonder? Huh? Stevie Wonder?

No, we never said no. Who did you say no to that you felt didn't make sense? sense to do? Like, did Prince come to you guys one day and like, you guys got something or, I mean, like, no, we actually, we actually, a Michael Jackson situation. Like, well, I mean, early on, um,

Madonna. Lionel Richie at one point of time, I mean, in the Lonnie Ritchie day, day. And you didn't think it made sense? No, because he wanted one song and we wanted to do more than one song. We didn't feel like we could do Oh, uh, initially, we'll initially right around

that, right after that probably, right after dancing on the ceiling, right around that time. Yeah. I mean, he was huge. But we just didn't feel like we were going to make an impact with one song. When we thought of him, we didn't think of him as one song. We thought of him as the Commodore's Lionel Richie. An album. We thought of him as the, you know, the kind of new line of original.

Oh, we did, but we did, though. We did an album with him that did absolutely nothing. What? Wait, huh? Oh, we got more stuff. We stopped red headphone, man. This is louder than words, right? That's happened a few times.

I don't know about this. I know about this. Louder's louder than words, right? The great cover? Was it a lot of the world? Yeah, great cover, yeah. That's right. You did the entire album?

No, no, no. But we did the great, the good songs on there. Which one? So don't want to lose you. Okay. You got that? That was a single. And you're on your laptop of songs.

So don't want to lose you now. And we did a song called Say I Do, which he actually. got married to when he got married. Oh, wow. Say I do. And we did a song that one of my favorites called,

Take You Down, that we actually sampled, I think it was What's the name of the album? By the Ohio Plas. Oh, wow. What? What albums is this called? I think it's called louder than words.

Yeah, louder than words. What? You was this like 90s? Oh my God, so many records. So here's so here's the funny thing about Lionel is that when he finally did come to us and we said no we want to do more than one song and he said okay cool he said i get it whatever i'll come to minneapolis it was a whole different lineal at that point right i'll come to minneapolis i'll

work with you guys whatever you guys want to do we said hey we miss the line of the commodore's linal can we do a commodore's lino song and he said yeah yeah he said absolutely we got it we got it and so i remember when we played it for him and i think i had sung the demo which not very good And he started cracking up. He just laughed and I said, yeah, I know I don't sing really good. And he said, no, man, it ain't that. He said, what's weird about it is that that is so me. But I can't write that song.

You guys can write it. I can't write that song anymore. But the fact that you all wrote that for me, he said, I'm totally with it. So anyway, that album got caught up with, I remember a record company thing with Polly. I think it was Polygram at the time. And it just kind of got caught up in a bunch of, in a bunch of craft. And we actually played with him at

the Polygram Convention. Oh, okay. So that was cool. But, you know, I mean, that's, for me, the greatest compliment that we get is when we got a chance to work with the classic artists, the people like we grew up with, and we got to work with Barry White, we got to work with,

Barry White was the best. We played a song for Barry White. We did the song called Come On for Barry White. And, and, And we did the whole big long, love unlimited intro and the whole big thing, right? And we said, when it got done, we said, hey, what do you think, man? And he said, ha, ha, sounds like me. And that's the best compliment. We did a song called You're All I Need for the Isley Brothers.

And I remember Ernie was listening to it. And he said, hey, man, you got an acoustic guitar? And we were like, yeah, yeah. He said, man, hook me up. hook me up. He said, I already know where this is going. I already know where the core changes are going. And when you do that and you like somebody so much, but you can kind of get into their heads and make them feel like the song is for them, that's the best, man. Particularly with, you know, like I say, with the classic artist, because you have a chance to actually study and know. And as a fan, you know, just with anybody, you know where they went wrong, where they made the left turn.

You just talked about it with Michael. He made a left turn at one point and he got into Rhythm Nationland. and he never recovered. That was his left turn that he made. Or it can be any of your favorite artist. It's like, okay, they get to a certain point, then they make a left turn, and it's like, if you can just bring them back. Well, we worked with Earth Wind and Fire.

We did a song called Pure Gold. Yeah, the Elimination album. Okay. And that's the last record, by the way, that Maurice White sang on. And we insisted that he sang. And that sounded like them. That was a great, that was a great song.

But the point was, so Earth Win and Fire comes to us, and they go, man, we want to get back on the radio. And we were like, you're on the radio all the time. reasons that's the way of the world September right you're on the radio no no no we want you know we want to be on the radio I said no no so what does it tell you that those songs are being played on the radio

so what does radio want to hear from Earthwind and Fire those type of songs and so we did pure gold and you know it was a very popular record in the whole thing yeah man you guys have always kind of been like I can

compare y'all I call you like the Shang Song of music Happy Pride Month, Toronto. Pride is an opportunity for you to create your own space, to celebrate your existence. Iheart Radio is proud to be an official sponsor of Pride Toronto Festival, and we won't stop. Celebrate Pride. Turn up the love and listen to IHeart Pride Canada, your 24-7 radio stream and the only playlist you need for your Toronto Pride celebrations. Pride is so great because it gives a whole bunch of people this visibility that they've never had before.

We have a ton to celebrate Toronto. Hi, I Heart Radio. I love the sounds, the buzzing from the stadium, the chanting from the fans, the announcers calling the place, soccer, football, it's home. Why do I watch the World Cup? That's like asking me, why do I breed? I inherited that fandom from my mom. I like watching it with my dad. It's a connecting force.

From Futuro Studios, I'm Fernanda Echavari, and this is American Football, a show about. soccer culture in the U.S. and its underdog roots. We go beyond the game to the people and the stories that make it great. A soccer game is a festival. It's not just a game. It's your culture. I took an elbow to my head which cracked my skull. It is an American game. The Brazilians don't like hearing that though. Are they the only ones that don't like that? Nobody likes that. As we get ready for the men's World Cup this summer, listen to American football as part of the My Coutura Podcast Network, available on the IHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Hey, I'm Hoda Kotby, host of the podcast, Joy 101 with Hoda Kotby. Together, we're going to have meaningful conversations with the world's most fascinating people, like when actress Olivia Munn shared how she overcame fierce health challenges. I've gone through breast cancer and then helped my mother through breast cancer, and that was more difficult. There's a lot of people who understand postpartner depression. I was not prepared for postpartum anxiety. Listen to Joy 101 with Hoda Kotby on the IHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Because their new star is Javier Tcherido Hernandez. Everyone sees me as a football player, but before anything else, I'm human. Every single day I'm still learning how to live with problems, mistakes, relationships, emotions ever since I was born. And I still have so many questions. Where do we come from? What happens after death? How do you deal with cancellation? Christiano or Messi Do aliens exist? What is love?

Real Madrid or Barza From every day and ordinary To the deep and extraordinary This isn't a normal podcast Everything here is spontaneous, real and genuine This podcast is like a deep talk With your closest friends Where vulnerability comes out

Conspiracy theories End up on the table And goals and lessons are shared All in this life has a order perfect and all is just Wait me, I'm going to be I'm going to be able to be We are here to connect

The Chicharito I'm Javier Xerito Hernandez and together with IHard Radio We're going to make the ordinary, extraordinary. Stay close. It is a character. Listen to learning to be human on IHard Radio, Apple Podcasts, or whatever you get your podcast. Because, like, y'all. Shenzum, Mortal Kombat, Mortal Kombat.

Shams was the character who could morph into like any of the other characters. Because the record y'all did disrespectful for Mary J. Yes. I would have bet my firstborn Shail. that Rich Harrison did that record. Right. Yeah. And I love Rich Harrison.

Yeah, I mean, and I was just, so I was just curious as to how you channeled that. Like, where does that come from, like, in order to get it? It comes from, it comes from, it comes from respect of people like that. Of, of Rich Harrison. I remember hearing, what was the record? Amory. One thing. No, no, no.

Talking about. No, the very first one. Oh, why don't we fall in love? Oh my God. Okay. So of records that changed my life as far as just appreciation of production and songs and what that was one of them. I mean, there's probably, I mean, I don't know. I've never, I always think about it, but then I never do it.

But like there's certain songs on my life. She's going to love to hear you say this, by the way. Well, there's certain songs that there's certain songs in my life that really changed. And I go back, I can go back way, way far. but I mean I remember happening on to a Brenda Russell album Right, so good, so right, right, yes. And think it over and those songs on that,

those major seventh chords on that record and the way it's put together changed the way I wrote music. Totally, right? I can think of hearing, just trying to think of something to come to mind, just a touch of love by Slade. Totally changed the way

that whole, that Steve Arrington with that little hiccup tie hat thing that ended up watching you and all that other stuff. But just a touch of lovers, man, that was such an amazing record. And Starlina Young's voice, and that whole thing was just amazing. So there's certain records like that that just do that to me. And so, yeah, so the A. Marie record did that to me. That record was just like, come on.

And the My Life album by Mary Jay was. like that. Like I stopped everybody in the studio and made them listen to that album. Like you've got to listen to this. You liked it? I loved it. That's crazy. That's the first day we meant, by the way.

Or at least that I remember you. I am. Yeah, in D.C. Really? Oh, loved it. Loved. I can believe that. I can see it. Doesn't everybody. Why? Why wouldn't I like it? Well, because

it was karaoke. It broke so many rules. like we were like just that month of us being in the van and analyzing every record as we're going from gig to gig when we got the my life record we were just dumbfounded because all we kept asking was is this allowed yeah it's just named the tune like yeah right is she allowed it now if it were rappers singing over everybody loves the sunshine it'd be like oh okay

that's normal right but we'd never heard a singer sing over breakbeat and we didn't know how to feel about that record. Like, we were just like, we just kept asking. Well, soon thereafter, I was like, if you ask if this is allowed, then it must be classic. Right. Because she started, because she was kind of on the What's the 411 remixes. That was kind of the dress rehearsal for my life,

because that was when she started singing over the list of it. We just, I never thought like, okay, I'm listening to everybody loves the sunshine. She's just changing. Like, it was, I was so conflicted. And the Curtis Mayfield shit, the V-Hap. Yeah, I was so conflicted that. Oh, I love B-Haping, man. That shit was a jam, though.

But that's the thing, Jam, can you still listen to records and not listen to them clinically? I always ask these guys that, like, can you just listen to a record? I'm numb. I analyze everything and. Just hear the goodness. And I'm a DJ. Outside of the technicalities of the break B, how many. Sort of. That's a great question. I think I can. I definitely get the emotion of records. I was listening, ironically, there's a record by, there's a guy like an edium guy like Porter Robinson. And I love his chord structures and his textures that he does. And there's a song he had out about four or five years ago. No, it wasn't even four or five years ago, it was maybe two or three years ago, that I remember he played at Coachella. And it was the first time I had,

taking my kids to Coachella. And I remember we walked into the tent and that song came on and my kids put their hands in the air and I just was like, wow, this, because everybody was like, well, EDS is just kind of soulless and it's whatever. But it hit my

kids. And I actually put a little snippet of it. I sent it to my kids today because we're going to Coachella tomorrow. And I sent them that little snippet and they both sent me back a bunch of smiley faces because there was this moment where and I, never have analyzed that song because it's, I'm not an idiom. I don't really do

E.m. But that song, yes, the emotion in that song, there was no, I didn't have a desire to try to dissect it. I just, something about it all, and it could have been the moment or because I was with my kids or because it was a shared experience or whatever. But yeah, I don't, I think I probably can listen to things without doing it. The thing that is, I don't like, is when I can hear the plan that somebody had for the song. That bugs me. If a song

is put together really well, it's like a magic trick or something. Like if a magic trick is done really well, you don't see the magic. You don't see the magic. It's just like, oh shit, wow, that was cool. But if you know what it is, what they're trying to do, and some songs are so, I'm going to push a button here to try to get this emotion

out, and then I'm going to do this here because, and I'm going to use this sound here, because it reminds people of this here, and it's almost like a laboratory. Yeah, that's like I said, I've never been inspired by inspirational music, ever. Like, anyone that says, like, be optimistic, you can win.

No, not, I mean, optimistic. No, that wasn't, that was a song that was inspirational, but it wasn't like, I'm going to try to inspire you. Like, a lot of, like, I don't want to say Christian music, but music that seeks to, like, be, like, self-help books in music form, I hate that shit. Wow. I didn't really feel, Todd Day.

Tell them why you mess. So how well-rounded are you kids with music? Or do you leave them to their own devices? Or do they school you? All of that. All of the above and all in different ways. I mean, I'm around my 16-year-olds all the time.

My older one, I remember his, probably his most influential phase of music before he kind of, I won't say matured, but I guess matured is the right word. Anything that Little John did. Wow. Where it was a loop of a synthesizer low and then high. So if it would snap your fingers, it was da-da-d-d-d-d-da-d-da-da-da-da-da-da-da. Every song had that same pattern. He loved all those songs, right? And he eventually got, he's more, he's interesting now.

He's much more of an EDM guy now. He's into all the EDM stuff. So, I mean, what do they think of what your life was? Like, do they understand that, yo, I know y'all see me as dad, but. I'm the shit. Kind of that dude. Motherfuckers was talking trash to me, Jim. Like, what do they think of when they see?

No, they don't. They don't. They don't get it? No, not at all. So the time means none of them? Well, no, they enjoyed the time. Now, it was interesting. Was that before, after the Rihanna performance?

No, after the Rihanna performance, we did, because the time didn't exist, because we didn't really, my kids weren't born until 96. We did, my first one was 96. The twins were 2000, so we didn't do the, we had done the Panamonium album, what, 90? but we hadn't done another album since then. So they didn't really know the time. So it was just, yeah, a band I used to play with, but they had no, you know, thought about what it was. Yeah, no reference.

I remember the first time I took, we did a song with Sting called My Funny Friend and Me from a, it was from a Disney movie. I can't remember what it's called now. And we, at the end of the premiere of the movie, they raised the curtain and we actually performed with Sting. And I remember my son, who was probably four at the time, he loved it.

Like he thought that was so cool that I was, but he didn't know who Sting was. He just thought that it was cool that after this movie there was a band on stage, right? Eventually he got it and he went with us like to Janet

because he was old enough. I mean he was what five I think when Janet did or six when Janet did the velvet rope, not velvet rope, but all for you to her. So when we took him to Hawaii with us when we did the HBO thing

and the whole thing. Take him to that chair, did she? No, she had Kevin Garnett in the chair, though. That was pretty cool. That's right she did it before Nicky Minaj. Yeah, she did it. She did it.

So anyway, so, yeah, but my younger boy is, he's everything, he's the Coachella sponge. Like, I took him, and he was everything, that year was ACDC. He loved ACDC. He loved Tyler the Creator. He loved... I was going to say if it was ACDC, it was because of a rock guitar. rock band or guitar hero guitar i was

wondering it's because of guitar yeah right because his kids are into metal why do you know this yeah why do you know the songs that's interesting no he always for some reason he always had a very big palette of he was always an old soul like he would listen to led zeppelin

but i mean he'd hear me play it but then he'd go seek and find more stuff that was always his thing like he'd like he ended up liking the black key because he liked Led Zeppelin and then he you know and he would make the connections on stuff he was very very much at an early age

now he's 16 his he's literally discovered now the Michael Jackson off the wall album now is his probably his favorite album of all time he thinks sonically it's the best record ever made

and you let him discover it yes I let him discover it yes I let him discover it. I got in the car. It's funny, I got in a car the other day. So after the Grammys, we went to this one after party, A.E.G, the people that own the Stapleson and all that. We went to their party. They were playing all this kind of old school music. And they played bad Mamma Jamma. They played Needype Funkadelic. He had never heard these songs in his life, right? He's asking me, Dad, who is this? Dad, Mammah, Carlton? Oh, okay. Dad, who's this? Not just needy funkadelic? Okay, cool. about two weeks later I'm taking him to school he's playing funkadelic but not knee-deep he's playing like album cuts

that album cuts right bad mamma jama is like his favorite song ever he's telling me how lyrically what's the lyric there's a lyric in the song that he loves sexy

sexy what is it what is the line yes the look at her anatomy line whatever that line is. Poetry,

I get so excited. Feeling her nan to me. She's built. She's built. He's stacked. Yeah. He loved that. He said, man, those are great lyrics.

I'm like, okay. So he loves that. He loves the, like I say, he's into the Michael Jackson thing. The other day he found Heat Wave. Oh, wow. He said, dad, doesn't this sound just like Michael Jackson? song. I said that's because Rod Timberton wrote it. So then he went on a Rod Temperton binge.

Right? So he's that kid that's following the three. Yes, he does. And I love that, right? Yeah, it's me when I was a teenager. And me too. I mean, I was the same way. So I see myself in him. So anyway, he's totally into that stuff. But after he gets through with that stuff, Travis Scott.

Little Uzi Verde. Big time. Uzi Verde is okay to him. He's really, he's really, Travis Scott is his all-time favorite. He likes Kanye a lot. He likes Drake a lot. He liked the early weekend stuff, the mixtapes weekend stuff. But he's, but he likes Sampha.

He likes a little dragon. No, Bruno Mars, huh? No. No, he loves Bruno Mars. Oh, he loves Bruno Mars. Oh, no. He's got a very, like I say, he's got a very wide musical. He's out of my son.

He's out of my son, who is also 16. So Coachella is like perfect for him. Like he's going to be, he's going to love it. Like he's already got his list of folks he wants to see. Schoolboy Q, Kendrick Lamar. You know, he's got his, he's got his folks. All his own bands. Yeah, exactly.

One question I have for you was in regards to just like your, we talk about all your hits. Some of your misses, I guess. Like, you know, records that you've done that, you know, maybe didn't do what you want. them to do and what you learn from and like when you and terry might sit back and say you know what that didn't really hit the mark and this is why it didn't hit the mark uh that's a good question i'm sure there's a lot of them i don't think a lot about them honestly well i mean like a leadoff

single that was expected to if i'm a home run a project or like the rajanae project or like whatever like rojanae you told that out yeah that's that was my turn it up no that was my choice i did It was on the lowdown there to Shadeshout track. That's right, it was. It was. So, no, Raja, no, listen, Rajunay was good. It wasn't, I don't think it was great.

Like, listening to it now, like, some things I go back and listen to and I go, man, that was really some great shit we did. Or, you know, at least I think that. And some things I go back and I listen to and I go, that's okay, but I would have done that different and I would have done that. Rajeney is one of those records. I probably would have done, you know, a little different than we did it. But also, we didn't have, at that point in time, we just didn't have the backup with the label.

So maybe the record could have been better. I don't think it probably reached this potential, but I don't think we probably made the best record. And that's in all honesty. But, yeah, I mean, it happens a lot when records don't do it. I'm, I'll tell you one of the ones that was really surprising to me, but it had nothing to do with us, because I think it's a great record, is God Till It's Gone by Janet. And what happened with that record was, wait, it went straight to number one.

Something happened that we all know about? Well, it went straight to number one urban. Pop Radio didn't touch it. Yeah. Wait, what? Didn't touch it. Like it didn't exist, didn't touch it. Not even with a no-rap version.

And here's the thing that's interesting about it. We sensed that when we made it because Janet had always straddled that line very carefully. I remember when we were, we went to a marketing meeting at the end of the, yeah, toward the end of the Janadam, right? And we had already had, you know, that's the way love goes if, again, because of love were the four singles, I think, and then so it was now, what is the fifth single going to be? And there was a cut on the album called Where Are You Now, which we thought would be a great single. I used to hear it on the radio all the time before the album dropped.

That was the problem. It had already been played so much on the radio that they were scared that they couldn't get, you know, the judges on the airplay charts. It charted, yeah. It was like a, it was like a top, literally a top 10 record just on airplay. And so anyway, we went to this meeting and, you know, we're sitting in there and they have all their charts and their graphs and, you know, it's summertime. We should go up tempo. Maybe we go with throb. That would be a great one and whatever.

And they had all their graphs and all their stuff. and Janet had told us before we went in the meeting and us at that time was myself and actually Renee, her first husband, or second husband, I guess. So anyway, we had gone in there and so she was waiting for us. She said, when you guys are done, we'll go eat. I'm like, okay, cool. So we called her and we said, are you close?

And she said, yeah. And I said, why don't you come in and listen to what these guys are saying? Because I know what you're thinking for the single, but they're not anywhere near it, right? And she said, okay, cool. So she comes in and everybody gives their whole spiel and everything and you know whatever, whatever, whatever, whatever, whatever. And this is why this and it's uptempo and it's summer and here's what we do and blah, blah, blah. And Janet goes, well, I want to thank everybody very much for, obviously everybody's put a lot of work into this and I really appreciate that.

And I think the next single should be anytime, any place. Room is silent. And somebody goes, Yeah, great. Sure. Okay. Yeah. So what do you think? Should we get a remix going? Who do you think we could do a good remix? Wow. That's what I said. I think R. Kelly could probably do a really good remix. And then they were like, oh, cool. Okay, remix. Okay, yeah, that's good. Yeah. Okay. Is this also where the B side came in? Huh? Is this also where the B side came in? On and on. Which is one of my favorite genus songs. Because we said, because their whole thing was, oh, concerned, we don't have a tempo record in the summertime. We said, we'll just do a B-side.

On uptempo B-side. The song starts out. This is a song about summertime. Right. Exactly. Let me just spell it out for you, motherfucker. Yeah, one of your records that I was surprised that, like, didn't go was, oh, man, when I need somebody, the Ralph Trisman. I thought that shit, I was like, man, this shit is sensitivity on steroids.

his fucking song. I love Toose Zamek, too. Thank you. I did too. I loved Toosemak, it didn't, it didn't connect. I used to rock the song, I bought the single and used to rock the instrumental more than the vocal, to be honest. Well, we always saw Ralph as sort of, you know,

sort of a Marvin Gaye-ish type thing, so that was our attempt to kind of do that kind of Marvin Gay, you know, kind of Trouble Man type, you know, cinematic thing. And, you know, at the end of the day, it didn't work. When I need somebody yet, That kind of surprised me, but honestly, the label at that point in time wasn't in to Ralph at that point, just for a lot of reasons.

And so we just kind of knew it was going to kind of fall flat at that point. I still love that song. How do you feel about the, well, you executive produced the new edition movie? Yeah, Dustin playing you and amazingly. Yes, I agree. Yes, because of Philly's own, Dustin Felder. I mean, how do you feel that now that a whole new generation has, latched on and you know like my friend's kids are you know discovering this group and how do you i love it i love it

because to me that's what music really should be um it should connect us it should connect generations it should connect races it should connect uh ethnicities uh religions it should do that's what music is it's the ultimate connector and to me It's the most divine art of all the arts. And the reason I say that is, name me something else that if I say to you, Questlove, where were you on this date in 1990? Do you know what you were doing?

I'm that Mary Lou Hinner person that can, you can name a date and I can tell you where I was. Oh, really? Okay. Because music and soul train episodes like connect me to. Ah, yes, but what's right? Because of the music. Oh, yeah, that's my point. I say it's to my mom all the time that it's my time machine.

It's how I remember things. It's how I... It transport you. It transport you. If I play you a song from the date, it transports you. You remember everything about it. Smells and everything. Yeah, absolutely.

Like, I can go back to like even... Because we talked about earlier what I grew up listening to and it was like a bunch of pop music. But I can go back to like stuff like a strawberry alarm clock or the turtles or, you know, all these, right? And I remember, they'll play me the turtles happy together or whatever. And I remember the school bus, they're taking me to a field trip and, you know, that kind of stuff. I mean, it's like, it's all exists in your head. But you can't access it. What's the key that accesses it?

Music. That's divine. There's no other explanation for that. So question, because you said earlier when we first started this interview, there's going to be a movie at some time. Pride is like love. You feel it in your heart. IHR Radio, Canada's number one streaming app for radio and podcasts, including IHart Pride Canada, your favorite hits and must-have party bangers, plus personalized and curated playlists,

like back in the day pride. Come together, celebrate love. Take pride with you anytime, anywhere. Just ask your smart speaker to play IHart Pride Canada. Stream us on your phone or listen now at iHeartRadio.ca. I love the sounds, the buzzing from the stadium, the chanting, from the fans, the announcers calling the place soccer, football at home. Why do I watch the World Cup? That's like asking me, why do I breed?

I inherited that fandom from my mom. I like watching it with my dad. It's a connecting force. From Futuro Studios, I'm Fernanda Chavari, and this is American Football, a show about soccer culture in the U.S. and its underdog roots. We go beyond the game to the the people and the stories that make it great. A soccer game is a festival. It's not just a game. It's your culture.

I took an elbow to my head, which cracked my skull. It is an American game. The Brazilians don't like hearing that, though. Are they the only ones that don't like that? Nobody likes that. As we get ready for the Men's World Cup this summer, listen to American Football as part of the MyCultura podcast network, available on the IHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get.

your podcasts. Hey, I'm Hoda Kotby, host of the podcast, Joy 101 with Hoda Kotby. Together, we're going to have meaningful conversations with the world's most fascinating people, like when actress Olivia Munn shared how she overcame fierce health challenges. I've gone through breast cancer and then helped my mother through breast cancer, and that was more difficult. There's a lot of people who understand postpartner depression. I was not prepared for postpartum anxiety.

Listen to Joy 101 with Hoda Kotby on the IHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. And it's a part of the surprise to me because their new star is J. Territoryo Hernandez. Everyone sees me as a football player, but before anything else, I'm human. Every single day I'm still learning how to live with problems, mistakes, relationships, emotions

ever since I was born. And I still have so many questions. Where do we come from? What happens after death? How do you deal with cancellation? Cristiano or Messi? Do aliens exist? What is love?

Real Madrid or Varsa? From everyday and ordinary to the deep and extraordinary. This isn't a normal podcast. Everything here is spontaneous, real, and genuine. This podcast is like a deep talk with your closest friends, where vulnerability comes out. Conspiracy theories end up on the table, and goals and lessons are shared.

All in this life has an order perfect and all is just. Wait me, I'm going to be able to be, but me will be going to be able to be. We are here to connect. The Chicharito. Oh, Javier, Chicharito Hernandez, and together with IHara Radio, we're going to make the ordinary, extraordinary. Stay close. It is a carac.

Listen to learning to be human on IHad Radio, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Time at some point. If we can't get through this story in four hours, how is there going to be a movie? That's going to be the new roots.

Now that certain unfortunate situations have occurred in the past year, yes. Where does that leave the original seven in terms of being the time in terms of doing the movie or you going to have to see when the smoke clears with the states and yeah i don't honestly i don't think we've even thought about

it i don't even i don't think it's been a thought it might as well be i mean you saw it well okay if stephen were still at bt i think it could be a possibility or could have been possibility but no we were joking like on the new edition story we were on Twitter joking like yo if they did a Jimmy Jam and Terry Lewis story that shit could be a Netflix original

it could be oh yeah 13 episodes like dead ass that she could be to be serious I don't even consider it like it wouldn't you have to be chronological I think if you just pick 13 experiences

that are somewhere between 90 to 2 hours. I mean, people can handle it. Right. Or an hour. I was a hour yet. Fuck it. I mean, we're here for nine hours. Are y'all seen Salius? I'm just saying Yeah, it's just I feel like, yes,

a 13 episode arc. That would be cool. 13 records. Of Jammin Lewis, like, just that would be awesome. Okay, listen, we have to stop. But wait, but wait, just grant us,

I know that. Look, I know you being super polite. I appreciate you for granting us this five-hour interview. So look, I just want to make sure we broke the record. I wanted to call it. Oh, no. We don't know. I just want to make sure. You're good.

So look. You're good. Can we all just get one question each? Oh, man. Okay. One question each. Mine is rather short. And this goes back to 1982.

Okay. Did you ever question the abrupt ending of I don't want to leave you? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Did you ever question that? No. Even now you don't question it? No, I remember it, but I don't question it. Was that supposed to be something else or just?

Not that I know of, but I wasn't involved, like I say, I wasn't involved in making the record, though, so I don't know. It's whatever it was. But never like, like, hey, why did you? never know. I think the leader on the tape came up and that was... I wasted my question. Who's next? Boss Bill.

A few years ago, there was a project you guys announced called the Jam and Lewis Project. I guess it was going to be the solo record. Is that still happening? Yes. And what's the latest from that? Okay, so the latest is the project is pretty, you know, we've been working on this project. You could say since the secret album. So we never

We always thought it would be great to do our own album But we never Put aside the time to do it Like we would always try to kind of do it in between other things And we felt like we were kind of selling ourselves short Because you'd always clear the decks for a project And do it And as a matter of fact, when we did Unbreakable

That time period was when we were going to really finish The Jam and Lewis record But we put it aside to do Unbreakable Because that was the right thing to do So we are pretty much recorded and actually had already mixed the record, but the technology we used to mix, we're using the surround technology to mix, to mix the record, and we are going to go with a different technology now to do it, because it's been developed now that we've waited another couple of years.

The songs won't be dated because the songs are all, Jammin Lewis. Well, yeah, I mean, they don't have an expiration date. They're not trendy. There's nothing trendy about any of the songs. Babyface it actually said that you guys had a couple of songs that you produced on him. We did. Are some of those going to be included?

Yes, sir. Okay. Yes, sir. And the thing is about it is that I think conceptually the album is simply artists that we really like doing the songs we want to hear them do. Okay. So Babyface is a great example of, I will say, without, Spoiler alert. Well, not without a, not even spoiler alert.

I just, I don't like to, I'm not a brag guy or boast guy or anything like that. But I will say that the, get your brag on. I will say the Babyface record, because there's just going to be one you'll hear. The Babyface record you hear will be the best baby face record you've heard since. Whatever your favorite baby face record. I love you, baby. It was. Whatever was your favorite babyface record.

And I will say that about all the artists on there. Tony Braxton, it will be the best Tony Braxton record you've heard. It's your favorite one. Mary J. Blige will be your favorite Mary J. Blige record you've heard. Usher record will be a favorite Usher record you've heard. Mariah record will be the best Mariah record you heard. Janet record will be the best Janet record you heard. And we even go back to Alexander O'Neill and Shirel.

SOS band These are all new songs Or newly recorded songs? They are all Timeless songs Okay We will say Got you got you

Whose origins Have You know Started at some point But are finishing now You know Some of them been You know

I'll give you one example So the Alexander O'Neill's song We did this song as the idea of the song was a follow-up to Saturday Love. Alex sang his part. Shirel never sang hers until six months ago.

Wow. Say partly. So, nice. 87 Alexander O'Neill is duetting with 2017 Shiret. There you go. And therein lies the beauty of what the record is.

Because sometimes... So sometimes, so sometimes that's just the way that things that things happen. And the technology allows us obviously to take, you know, we have stuff all on tape and we have analog tape and all that stuff.

And of course we digitize it and make it sound a little better, so it sounds good. But then the other piece of it is a technological piece, which is just as you could do with a Blu-ray movie, right, where you're listening to like the director's commentary if you want to listen to it in that way, the way the record is made. We're doing that on this record.

The way I'll listen to it. Yeah, so we're doing that on this record. So the commentary of the artists, ourselves, the engineer, whatever, and we talk about the choices we make and so on and so forth. So if you want to listen to it like that, you can. Otherwise, you can just listen to it as a regular album. I can't wait for that. Yeah, it's going to be pretty awesome.

And we think that, and we think it does a few things. We think that, and we're going to do it in volumes because we actually, now, when people got when we were doing it, then people started coming to us and going, Oh, wait, why aren't I have part of it, you know, that kind of thing. So now we have a, now we have a Stokely record. I feel like DJ Callet. What are the Stoley vocals coming?

We're the best. What a Stoley vocals coming? Yeah, you get them Drake Vocal. Yeah. So, I mean, it's like that kind of thing. And you're going to call it the Jimmy Jam and Terry Lewis project? It's just going to be, yeah, right now it's just called Jam and Lewis Volume 1, I think it's what. Oh, no, Jam and Lewis Project Volume 1.

You know, volume two should be. Lewis and Jam. All right, who's... I'll go, I'll just a quick one. Mo Money soundtrack, the new style. Was that something that you guys... Well, first off, is that you saying the new style? Is that you?

Yes. Okay. And also, is that you... Keep on. Saying the blackness. Yes. I thought it was it. Did you guys ever do any more kind of club stuff like that?

Or was that going to be a side project or something? Was that just something I did for the movie? Okay, so that was... We did a song with Janet that never came out called Beat Crazy. And one of the lines in the song, she said, Control My Mind. Ah. And we just took... Control my mind.

We just took that piece, and then we just looped it. And you hear it right at the beginning, right? But it slowed down, I think. And then the... My... She's the saying, mine. Mine. Ah.

Mine. And then we just built a track around it because they needed it for a scene in the movie. They needed a... It was when they were dancing. Nah, that was when they was in... They was dancing. Yep. They just needed it.

And so we just whipped it up. It was like literally a, I don't know, two hour whipped this up. And that was it. Oh, wow. Yeah. Yeah. Next. I gotta go.

We talk about all the hits that you know are hits straight up. Have you ever gotten tunes that, like, you kind of like, eh? And they wind up being hits, too? Well, Saturday Love is definitely one of them. We talked about that one earlier. You're trying to red hit Step Child Saturday Love, man. No, I mean, I just never It's one of those things that's so simple

You just think like, no, this can't be it But that's totally fucking it Right, right We're suckers Yeah I'll take it I love it I get it now

I get it I get it I get white people Why people liked it But no We definitely have had some other ones like that I'm just not I'm just not recalling them

But we've definitely had somewhere I hadn't really thought that much of them But somebody said Oh man that should be the single And whatever And we're kind of like Yeah okay and then it actually did well.

Here's it for this in love. We felt pretty good about it if it is in love. I mean, most of the songs we feel good about, the funny thing is when people come up to me sometimes and they'll say, oh man, I love everything you did. And I go, I don't even love everything I do. You don't even know everything. Not everything is good.

It's just not. I mean, that's life. But, I mean, you always have good intentions for stuff. but it doesn't always happen. I'll tell you the most excruciating record to make was, there was a hit, was Karen White Romantic. Oh, wow.

That was a number one hit. Number one, yeah. But my question, the whole time we were making the record is why aren't L.A. Babyface making this record? It does kind of sound like an L.A. Babyfaceface. Totally does. I tried to make the record they would have made. That was the idea.

That was excruciating. And Terry was married to her. Right. Man, that was tough and nothing against Karen, but man, that was just an excruciating record, a project. It just was, because it was a record, that was an example of a project that I didn't feel we should be doing. You know, I kind of felt like why aren't Ellen Babyface doing the project, you know, and for whatever reason they weren't doing it. But it was funny because I felt that way about another project, and that was when we did with Mary Jay. We did Love is All We Need and everything.

thing. And I remember, they do everything. That's right. Yeah. And I, and I remember when Mary came, came to Minneapolis, and we played her stuff. And it was, the stuff we were playing her, I thought, was like really good. But it was assuming that she was working with Puffy. So we weren't playing her any sample

stuff. It was just like this different kind of stuff. And she was like, yeah, that's okay, that's okay, that's okay. And we said, what are you looking for? And she said, you know, something that sounds like me. And we're like, okay, well, okay, well, here, listen to this. And I said, she said, something that sounds like me.

And I said, like what? And she said, you know, like, my life, like, you know, like that kind of vibe. And we were like, oh, but isn't Puffy doing those kind of records on you? And she said, I'm not working with Puffy. We said, oh, okay, well, in that case, we put on the tractor lovers all we need. And then instantly that,

track came on. And she got up and started dancing, and she said, oh, yeah, this is it. This is it. Right here. This is it. And I was like, oh, you like that? Okay, when we got this other one, be, need, de, de, de, me.

And she was like, oh, yeah, this is it. And we've been good ever since. So y'all did beautiful for her too, though, right? Yes. Yeah, you did beautiful. I love that record. Thank you. I'm shocked that.

It was on the Stella sound track. Yeah. I'm shocked. Beautiful was good. I'm shocked that you guys. play pre-made work and the artist are with it because a lot of the time

I get resistance from people because they want it made in real time or to feel part of this immersive process. Sure. And not like, oh, okay, let's just pull something out the woodwork and... No, no, no, but we had done them for her.

With her and mind, we just didn't think that's what she wanted. We thought, we just assumed when they said, you're going to do you guys want to work with mary j blyge i was like yes and no because yes because i'm her biggest fan and no because i'm her biggest fan like i don't want to screw it up with her i don't want to be the person that kills mary jay lichie's career because she's coming off of my life which is one of my favorite records so the way we approached it was like well if we were making a record with her this rick james sample would be dope and this stylistic

sample would be dope, but we know Puffy's already going to take care of that, so we're not going to do that. But we just worked them up anyway. So they were ready, but they weren't off the shelf. We've never been off the shelf guys whatsoever. Never, never, never, never. We tailored, always tailored

everything to the artist. That was always very important to us to do. Except with Peebo Bryson. Yeah, except for Peebo, yeah. No, but even that stuff is obviously Taylor, because that's, see, that's one of those things where, Terry knows what he's looking for because Terry was working

intimately with people. I never did any vocals with people. Terry did that. And so Terry knew what he was looking for and he heard it in the track. And the way he flipped the track was totally not what I was thinking for it. But it turned out real cool. You know, it was like, okay, damn, that wasn't what I was hearing. And he actually took, like, my melodies and stuff and some stuff, but he just made it

just fit, you know? The end of the day, as long as it fits, that's the big thing. But you're right. some people want to be involved some people just want you to hand them the record um there's there's um i remember we work with a kisha cole and uh remember she came to the studio and she said um yeah she says what am i going to play me something and i was like no we're going to make up something right now huh what do you mean and i said no we're going to make up something right now like i'm going to play some stuff see whether you like this key you like this key yeah yeah but what do we

but where's the track and say no we're going to make the track right now like you like please and thank you there Can you please? Thank you. No, it was great. And we ended up doing a song, oh my God, it's slipping my mind,

the name of the record. But it came out real cool. And at the end of it, she said, that's the first time ever anybody's made a record like that. With me. Like,

just with me, just putting input into it and actually, you know, doing it. Usually I just walk in and people play me a bunch of tracks

and that's what I do. And I'm like, we try not to do that. We try to create it. We might have something on standby that we think might work just to kind of jumpstart something

if we ain't got something going, but nah, we like that you know, Taylor make it, you know. Laya? You know, I was going to do it really because I didn't want to keep us here longer. Okay, fine. I did want to know. Today, like, are there any singer, what songwriter's producers

in this R&B field that you feel like, you know what? I feel like they're taking the baton. Like, they move me. Hmm, that's a great question. Well, I don't, I feel like, I think there's a bunch of batons. So I'm going to keep mine.

Right. Good. Keep yours. But other people with a baton. Well, I mean, you know. That are ready to, that are ready to receive when you're ready to hand. I don't think I'm ever going to hand it. I think I'm going to go down with my, with my baton.

I don't, you know what? I think it's, I know what the word would be. I think in a way it's a little bit air. to think that we have a baton that we would hand to somebody anyway. Like, I don't even think of. So let me rearrange this question. Are there anybody? Is there anybody that moves you

in a way? That moves you today? Oh, tons of people. Tons and tons of people. That's making the music. Oh, yeah. No, there's a lot. There's a lot of people that I really, that I really, really like, but all for different reasons in different ways. I mean, Bruno's top of my list.

I think Bruno is Bruno is interesting because Bruno, we actually helped Bruno with some of his grooves. Yeah. And we... For free. Yeah, for free. No, I don't mean he borrowed him from us.

I mean, we actually went into the studio with him and helped him with some stuff. Yeah. On the last record, on 24-Care. On this one, yeah. Yeah. Well, in fact, that's all. Oh, wow. Well, what we did for him is we got him out of a rut, okay?

He tends to, I remember the first time we ever went to the studio, he played us this song, and I can't remember what it was, and he said he had been working on the bass part for six months. And he played it, and we were like, okay. He said, yeah, yeah, but something about that bass part, man. I've been trying to, I've been dealing with this for about six months, man, and whatever, whatever, whatever. And Terry looked at me, and I just said, plug in the bass.

He said, I plugged in the bass, and 30 minutes later we had the baseline. And he said, oh, my God, he said, that's why I need y'all. And I said, no, I said, that's easy. but I said, you're trying to recreate what we've already done. I said, so that's easy. I'm trying to get your producer for free. So, no, I mean, I think the intention was that we would actually do something. The thing that happened, though, honestly, was he is very meticulous.

Like, he's somewhere between Prince and Michael, right? So Prince is one day. Like, okay, if a girl answers don't hang up, for instance, on Vanity Six. That song was started and finished the same day. like right you go on you play the you know Terry played the bass Prince I think Prince played the drums on that or Prince played the drums on that I can't remember

I think Prince might have played the drums on that anyway I put a little keyboard part on and he took my keyboard part off okay fine so you go through the you go through the whole day you do the thing he wrote it he had the girls I think the girls might have sang it on a different day but the track's done and there's no rethinking it or

whatever you just move right on to the next thing the Michael Jackson way of working is you do the song and at the end of the day he would say make me a dad okay next day we come back

what do you think Michael can we turn the handclaps up a little bit sure okay handclaps are up we good oh yes make me a dad and that could go on for a week and it's like Michael

we're in the same place we've been we're just turning the handclaps up are we good to go because we have other songs that we want to do right Bruno is somewhere between there Right? He's very spontaneous, but then he thinks it through to death. Now, at the end of the day, the end result is great. And the end result comes off very spontaneous, but all of Bruno stuff is series of loops.

But it's just done very well, very subtly and very well. 24-carat. He played it for us. He said, I don't know. He said, he knew it. He said, this is my single. 24-cared. I got the video concept.

I got to every, this is my single. We said, okay. He said, but the problem is that doesn't make me want to dance. I said, okay. What song makes you want to dance? And he said, well, I really like, I can't remember even with the songs, he said. And I said, okay, cool. I said, plug me in, right?

So I just took the track and made it into a sound alike of a song he liked to dance to. And then we played it, and he said, oh, hell yeah. And he loved it, right? And he said, okay, I get it. Then he tried to put, like, the cords and stuff that he had before back in it. And I said, well, now you're just going back to what you already had. And he says, yeah, yeah, you're right, you're right, you're right. Okay, cool, right.

Three, four months later, dog chasing is still. 24-carat is done. He doesn't use what we did. But he went, he took not so much what we did, but he took a kind of the inspiration or the idea of it, but figured out how to then incorporate what he wanted in the song, which were the little stabs and the little,

you know, those kinds of little things like that. And, you know, so we didn't, so what we did is I think we got him unstuck from the rut and got him to look at it in a different way. But we didn't technically, we didn't produce anything. So I think we were just more, I think as it turned out, it's kind of a sounding board or whatever, and we did that for a few things for him.

And that's fine. I enjoyed the process. He's amazing. I think he's probably my overall, my favorite dude. And he's, you know, he's obviously an artist, but I think he's one of the artists that in any era would be, he'd be good. He'd be a great artist in any era.

Do we have everything out of our system? Steve didn't ask you. I mean, I still wanted to ask about this. Oh, I'm sorry, Steve. I forgot about you. Shocker. You didn't forget about me. The two times I spoke tonight, you said, shut up.

That's not forgetting about somebody. No, I have one question. Me and Bill Sherman over here, we recently started a singing group called The Sounds of Jewiness. And we could use a track or two, you know, like, just a track or two. Just whip it up. Gotcha.

Jesus Christ. So, is it true? There's a rumor going around that between Control Album and Rhythm Nation, A&M wanted Janet to do an album. with producers other than you guys? Is that true? That's impossible. Well, there's some truth in it.

Wait, what? She did go in the studio and make some records with some other folks that... I know she did something with Brian Lauren. Brian Lauren. Oh, I was just guessing out my ass. Yeah. Yeah. But yeah, there was a little...

I don't know what I would call it. There was a few bumps in the road between control and Rhythm Nation for sure. and but Clarence Avon solved that problem mentioned his name earlier about five hours ago in the broadcast yesterday but no we had a we you know it was one of those interesting things where

you know Janet heard we were saying something about her and whatever and we heard she was saying some about us and whatever and she finally called me and she said Jimmy do you want to do the record and I say yeah you want us to do the record she said yeah and I said okay fine and I called Clarence and I just said Clarence I said we want to do the record

so let's can we get this done and Clarence called up Jerry Moss and said Jerry give him a million dollars and let's go and that was it and we were literally in the studio making Miss You Much

which was the first song we recorded on the rhythm nation album like in the next week so the stories of songs like you need me was that a leftover from the Rhythm Nation session or the period in between.

You need me. Okay, now refresh my memory. You need me ended up being a B-side. To miss you much. To miss you much. You Need Me was during the, wow, that's a great question. When did we record that? Well, sounds like it's from the era, so.

Yeah, no, it, no, it definitely, it's, I don't know. I don't know. It's probably between control. It definitely, no, it definitely wasn't one of the control songs that I think. So I think it was probably part of the Rhythm Nation. So I was asking if it was like before Rhythm Nation actually officially started or... That's a really good question. I'm going to have to find that out myself.

I truly don't remember. And then like the other BCS like Skin Game, were those after the album was already done? Yes. Skin game was after the album was done. And one more chance. 70s Love Groove and... 24 play? Well, that was for the design of a decade.

Yeah, 70s Love Gros. Those were all done after the album was done. albums were completed. Yeah, 70s love groove. I remember we did that. That was a day. We did that in a day. And we just did a groove.

We just did a groove. And I said, just talk. And she said, okay. And how does that work, especially with the interludes, and especially with the morphing. I mean, we always joke about the orgasms every album. Yeah, right? Except unbreakable. No, but, well, yeah.

Yeah. But how, like, how, how. hard or to go from the shyness of funny how time flies, which I'm sure was hard to do. Was the room completely empty? Like, how did you get that out of her? Yeah, the room was completely empty. Like all those, the vocals on all, I mean, I did all the vocals on those records. And the room was always dark. And we always just, we just, I don't know, trusted each other. I guess I would put it like that. But Jenna would say just the way she was, she would say, things and they would come out wrong.

You know how you say something and it comes out in a sexual way or you can be, you know, it can be misconstrued as that. Jana would always do that. And even on the end of, oh, well, yeah, funny out time flies.

At the end of it, she's talking in French, right? And then she says one more time in American. I don't know that you, or in English. You hear that? Yep. So one more time was her asking,

did I want another take? But it sounded like, let's go one more time. So I just left it. You ever hear Marvin Gaye asked, do you have another Jay? Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Is that on the tape?

Yeah, it is, Marvin. So there's a lot of that kind of thing that goes on. But she, you know, she's an actress. She can put herself in the mood, for sure. And if the track is right, It's only, but it's about the vibe. My favorite one of those was, because I remember I totally shocked people, was, would you mind? Yes, would you mind.

That's it. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Would you mind? Thank you. Would you mind? And I'll tell you, the other great thing about would you mind was that Rock Wilder did that track. And I remember when we did, I gave like all the producers.

We worked with a whole bunch of different producers on that record, but Rock Wilder was the only one that actually ended up. making that was the 20 year old no it was demita joe demita joe okay no no no no no uh velvet wrote all for you no it was all for you it was it was all for you it was it was all for you was that in the moment all for you yeah was that yes yes okay yeah yeah all for you and we did um we do what we did is we did like a count of a camp we called it

flight time summer camp we had a bunch of different producers come up we put them in different rooms which kind of happens nowadays it's funny everybody does a riding camp thing so we did that so we did that so we we put everybody in the room, we said, let's see what you come up with. And I remember, we liked what Rock Wilder had done with Missy and a couple other folks, and we were like, okay, we'll put you in the room. So then you say to him, okay, here's what we want. We love what you do. Don't do that. We want you to come up with something different specifically for Janet. And it's a, what a weird thing to ask somebody.

right and so I remember and I said okay what do you need man and he says I just need a MPC and a a XP 60 and I can't remember the other keyboard he had but that was it I think it was XP 60 so I just need the XP 60 with the with the Asian card and the something card the junk I didn't remember what he called it there was two different kind of sound cards you could get and he says I just need these right and so I'm like okay cool so these other produce, I'm not even going to mention names. These other producers are like bringing in orchestras doing all kinds of crazy stuff in one studio

bringing in black, no it ain't. No, it ain't Rodney. No, it ain't Rodney. Black lights and fog machines and all kinds of craziness. No, no, not Rodney. And then another producer or actually set of producers

were very prolific and came up with probably 20 different ideas. But none of them were quite never really caught, right? Rock Wilder I walk next door and I hear do do do do do do do

do do do do do do do do and I go what the fuck I said dude what is this he said oh yes this is concept whatever

and I said okay and I just called Janet right away and I said okay so rocks the dude listen to this right and he had the kind of the thing and we put a couple of little things on it

to make it a little more her. And then I gave her, I said, I hear this melody, and I said, but you can write it, whatever it is. I said, but when you get to the chorus, it should just be whatever you want to do to somebody, right?

So if you say, I just want to, and I give her the melody, the rhythm of it. She came back the next day, and I was like, oh, and we were at record,

plan, I think, in LA recording this. And she just nailed this thing. And I can't remember who, it might have been Robin Thicker. Somebody was in the studio next door or something. And came in and was like, what are y'all working on? And it's like, oh, we got this new Janice song. Let me check it out. And they were listening to it was him.

I can't remember who all else was with him. Might have been Jordan Knight. We might have been working with Jordan Knight at that point in time, right? Give it to you. That's my jam right there. Yes. Yeah. I cut for that joint. Yeah.

So anyway, they were like, oh, my God. Yeah. I'm sorry, good. Yeah. No, but that's it. It was just, of all those songs, that was, that one is really my, probably my favorite one of those types of records.

That one was just so good, but man, hats off to rock for that one, man, because he really brought some, he did exactly what we said. We like you, do something that's not you, that's her,

that, you know, whatever. And he totally, totally brought it. Yeah. Well, thank you very much. Jimmy Jam. Man. Man.

Give him something like a plaque. Right. But you got enough. Yeah. Enough. Thank you. On behalf of Boss Bill, Sugar Steve,

unpaid Bill, Lai, and Pontigolo. This is a special Meredith Baxter-Bernie edition. Oh, Questlove Supreme. We'll see you on the next row.

Thank you. Westlove Supreme is a production of IHeartRadio. This classic episode was produced by the team at Pandora. For more podcasts from IHeartRadio, visit the IHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows. It's that time to put on your jersey and wave your flag, whoever you root for.

Why do I watch the Walk Up? That's like asking me, why do I breed? And it's beautiful. The guys are young and cute and fed. It's not just a game. It's your culture. I like watching it with my dad. It's a connecting force.

From Futuro Studios, I'm Fernanda Chavari, and this is American Football, a show about soccer culture in the U.S. and its underdog roots. Listen to American Football on the I-Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Joy is essential, and it's all so elusive. But now, there's a new and exciting way to start your journey. toward a more joyful existence. Joy 101. It's a new podcast hosted by me, Hoda Kotby. If you're craving inspiration to maximize your joy,

tune into these candid, uplifting, and moving on-air chats. Open your free IHeart Radio app. Search Joy 101 and listen now. Joy 101 with Hoda Kotby is presented by CVS. All right, listen up. The Jonas Brothers here. Our podcast is called Hey Jonas. We've here, since everyone has a podcast, we want it to as well.

And we've had some incredible guests. so far. And now our good friend, Nile Horn, is joining the show. How's it going, boys? Hey, Niall. It's the same thing with Slow Hands. Slow Hands is not about anything else, really, is it? You know, or taste so good can't be about food. You do the same, Nick, with some of the stuff that you've done. You too, Joe.

Drop what you're doing and listen to Hey Jonas on the Iheart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your podcasts. Everyone sees me as a football player, but before anything else, I'm human. Every single day I'm still learning how to live with problems, mistakes, relationships, emotions ever since I was born. This isn't a normal podcast. Everything here is spontaneous, real and genuine, just honest conversations about what it means to be alive. I'm Javierito Hernandez and listen to Learning to Be Human on IHard Radio, Apple Podcasts, or whatever you get your podcast. This is an IHeart podcast.

Guaranteed Human.