The Questlove Show - Black Music Month QLS Classic: Otis Williams

Episode Date: June 4, 2024

As Questlove Supreme dedicates a month-long celebration to Black Music Month, Dr. Otis Williams represents the epitome of Black Music. In this 2018 interview, the legendary baritone singer, a founding member of The Temptations, Otis Williams, discusses the evolution of the Motown sound and label, the band's dynasty, and The Temps' album, All The Time.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care what I'm saying. Yep, that's me. Clifford Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, my basketball and college football journey, or my career in sports media.

Well, now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifers Show. This is a place for raw, unfills of conversations with athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. So let's get to it. Listen to the Clivert Show on the I-Hard Radio app,

Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok. This week on the Sports Slice podcast, it's all about the NFL draft. And we've got a special guest. The director of the NFL's East West Shrine Bowl, Eric Galco, joins the Sports Slice podcast to break down what really matters when evaluating draft prospects. From hidden traits teams look for to the biggest mistakes franchises make to the players flying under the radar. This is the insight you won't hear anywhere else. If you want to understand the draft like an insider, you don't want to miss this episode.

Listen to the Sports Slice Podcast on the Iheart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more, follow Timbo Slical Life 12 and TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok. When a group of women discover they've all dated the same prolific con artist, they take matters into their own hands. I vowed. I will be his last target. He is not going to get away with this. He's going to get what he deserves. We always say, you know, trust your girlfriends. Listen to the girlfriends.

Trust me, babe. On the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Corses Love Supreme is a production of IHeart Radio. This classic episode was produced by the team at Pandora. What up, y'all? It's Laia from Team Supreme. Okay, so it's June, and you know it is Black Music Month. Now, this month in its cause was started by my godmother, Deanna Williams, the legendary

Kenny Gamble, and the Great Ed Wright. Back in 1979, after being invited to the White House along with the Black Music Association. Now, the Black Music Association was a group of black folks that were the best of the best of the music industry. I'm talking record execs. I'm talking radio people. I'm talking artists. I'm talking on everybody from Clarence, Avon, and Frankie Crocker to Percy Sutton,

everybody in the middle, right? So they all get invited to this big party on the White and White House. House lawn June 7th, 1979. And before the performances started, President Carter said many things addressing and reminding people of the importance of Black Music Month. And one of the things he said was, in quote, in many ways, the feelings of our own Black citizens throughout the history of our country has been accurately expressed in the music. And it presents a kind of history of our nation when you go back and see the evolution of Black music word. So we've spoken a lot about Black Music Month on Questlove Supreme.

And this June, we are running a different episode from the QLS Archives every single day in the name, spirit, and cause of Black Music Month. Here is the one and only Otis Williams, as you have never heard him from the temptations. Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to a special Questlove Supreme. I'm your host, Questlove Jenkins. And what meet today is Boss Bill, Sugar Steve, and It's Lyia, Team Supreme. Today we are celebrating a legacy For the past six decades

Our next yes was the glue that held together One of the most tightest elegant music dynasties In the history of modern Western music Their brand of sophisticated pop and soul With such gems as My Girl The Way to do things you do And ain't too proud to big Just in name of a few

Was just as crucial to the Civil Rights era As lived every voice and sing There isn't a vocal group Or in the past who has not been influenced by them. From their immaculate vocal harmony structure to their choreography, to their outfits, to their songs of love that have stood the test of time,

to their political anthems just as relevant in 2018 as it was in 1968. Music would not be what it is today without the temptations. And the temptations would not be the everlasting institution. It is without the one and only heartbeat of the temptations. Ladies and gentlemen, please welcome our guests.

Sir, Otis Williams. to Questletters too. Thank you. Thank you. It's worthy of this praise. Thank you. Thank you, Chris. This should become a preacher. You rattle that off real good.

I'm going to do something a little different than I normally do on the show. Well, I want to ask you, normally I go back to the beginning. But I want to ask you, what keeps you going? Well, of course, on the real side, it's love for what I do. You know, when you stop and think about this world that we live in and all the people that inhabit this world is a small microcosm of us that will get a chance to do what we'd like to do for a long time.

You know, and God has blessed me to be able to ride the hair off the horse. So I'm enjoying this here, you know. It's a labor of love, and when you can bring happiness to the world over by way of music, you know, music have been able to do some things that politicians haven't been able to do. So I love what I do, and I'm thankful to God for, you know, still being able to do it after 58 years. Yeah, that's impressive.

As someone that's at the epicenter of a group of people and not controlling them per se, but I know the headaches, the daily headaches that it takes to manage different band attitudes and whatever. Be it be a, uh, yeah, you're trying to put it nice. Politically,

but I'm just saying that like I admire you so much. And you know, I've read, I've read your book when I was like 17, your autobiography that came out and like, like I know that being the glue of an institution is one of the hardest things like where you wake up daily or weekly trying to to figure out what option can I get through this day without sure yeah drama and you know I know

that you've gone through like members of the group and yeah arguments like yeah all that is it is it that that's really my my my my my question is it worth it at the end of the day to you look I look at first of all you're dealing with people when you understand that you're dealing with people then you have to really understand that a lot of you know things come along with that and uh it's worth it you because when we're on stage and we hear and see people with tears in their eyes, and I'm not talking about ladies, I'm talking about grown men, you know, and we were on one night a few weeks ago, and my road manager said, Doogie, his name is Doogie, we called him Doogie.

He said, oh, this year old boy playing with his car, and he's that, do, do, do, do, do, do he's three years old. So when you sit from three years old all the way up to almost a hundred, it's worth it. You just have to put up with the shenanigans and the moods and the what have you with people. But God has helped me to make it through this. And Barry Gordy and a lot of the heavyweights at Motown

and thereby have said, Otis, you are the glue that holds the temptation together. And I figured that day, if my shoulders are big enough and strong enough to do it, then it's well worth to wait. Because when I'm at home, and I walk around my house and look at all the things that I've achieved.

All it's worth it. You know, it would be like me crying with a loaf of bread under my arms. So I really can't complain. Okay. I got to take that into account. Yeah, I really like this guy. You would, Steve. So in the days of the Elginz, before you became the temptation,

first of all, how did you guys, what was the transformation from the Elgin's to the temptations? Well, even before the Elgin's, um, My group was called Otis Williams in the distance. We were with a little small label called Northern Records and the lady that ran the label, Johnny Me Matthews. She recorded us, and we had a nice little regional hit called Come On. And it did very well so much so that she sold the Masters to Warwick Records. And so one day she came from New York back to Detroit, and she'd just taken out all these $100, you know, slapping them these $100 bills. And that was about this, I'm about 17, 18 years old.

And she said, well, you guys, your records are going to be here all over America. I sold it to Warwick Records, and now they can hear it all over the world. And I said, oh, that's good. Do we get some records for that? Because I wrote the first little regional here. And she looked at me with a jaunters out. She said, you're getting on this money. This is my money.

Now, we were doing record hops back during those days. And record hops is where, as you go around to the disc jockeys record hops and so they can continue to play your records. So Smokin Robinson and the Miracles were very hot at the time And Mr. Gordy was with them So we could see them from the stage And as they were coming in, we came off And Mr. Garde said, I like your group, your record

If you should leave where you are, come see me And I did, you know, because John Amay had said We weren't going to get any of that money So I called Mr. Garde and he said, come on over here And see Mickey Stevens, it was A&R man So Johnny May kept the name named Otis Williams in the distance. So I guess being young and whatever, I said, well, keep the name. We're young. We'll start all over again. So when we got over to Motown, we stood up front of a

building called the legal department of Motown. And a guy named was Bill Mitchell. He said, so what are we going to call you guys? And we stood there and we stood there. He said, what about the temptation? I said, I like that. And at the time, David Ruffman wasn't in the group, but Al Bryant, Eddie Kendrick, Paul Williamson, Melbourne, Franklin, myself. We were the no-name group at the time. So I said, I like that. And I asked Paul, I'd rather ask all the guys, but Paul Williams said, oh, this

name is whatever we make it. So I said, Temptation. So Bill hollered back up to legal department. Put on the contract, the temptations. And so in 1961, all the way up till now, we have been known as the Temptations. The movie totally got that wrong. They over-dramatized that whole thing.

They said y'all was sitting outside for eight hours trying to figure out outside of Hitz. And then you come in and then Mr. Gordy says, well, what's your name? Because I can't have y'all be whatever y'all said y'all was. And y'all would be like, we got to make it sexy. Yeah. Yeah, they'll dramatize that. Well, you know what I learned when I say?

Because I'm going to be honest with you. I have yet to sit and watch that mini-series. What? Seriously? Right at the end of the guy. I think I understand that, but it's weird because now they just, they show it so much. Oh, yeah. Well, what I learned, the little bit that I saw, the scene where as Melbourne,

Franklin and myself had to go to David Ruffin's apartment. Now, the guy that played me, what is his name, Charles Malik, D.B. Woodside, who played Melvin and naturally Leon. So I'm standing in the shadows in the way they're getting, the lighting and everything all fixed up. So Alan Arcus, the director said, all right, action, camera, roll them.

The girl came out with the class board, and the two brothers that played Melvin and myself, knocked on the door, and Leon opened the door. And when they started to deliver their lines, I said, oh no, I can't watch this. Now, we're talking about the year in 1998, but when that incident happened, it was 1966. So it lets you know that there was still a lot of stuff done underneath.

So one day we're in New York, my players getting ready to open up, I mean in D.C. at the Kennedy Center. And Smokie heard that I hadn't seen the movie. He said, he calls me Oak. You mean you haven't seen your movie? I said, no, Smokker. I don't want to cry.

Oh! You need to watch a movie. I said, well, I'll get around to watch it. I said, well, let me ask you something, Smoker. Have you watched it? Oh, I'll watch it. I said, did you cry? Yeah, I cried.

So you need to get your box of Kleenex and sit down and watch it. I have yet to watch it. But when I saw it up in Berkeley, I sat there, and the movie, I mean, the play is very touching. It's going to be seen that you need to take a Kleenex. So wait, what's the difference? Because there's a play versus the miniseries that we saw. Well, the play is very touching in the sense of you get another kind of field in person. And so as I'm sitting there watching it, the people that are sitting around me, they would watch the play and they would do like to see them.

Get a glance at you. Yeah, they want to see if I'm crying. And true enough, tears well enough in mind because there's a scene where the white folks are shooting at us down south. And oh, yeah, no, we went through all that. You know, so it's been very real, but, you know, I'm very glad that, you know, I was able to put it in paper. Now, from that to it'll start next month in D.C. And it'll be there for five weeks, and then it'll go to L.A. and then from L.A. to Toronto. And then hopefully they're just waiting for the right theater.

And the name of it is, ain't too proud, the life and times of the temptations. Yeah, I got to meet the people that produced that. Ira Okin. I'm at Ira Pilman. Well, the sister that wrote the screenplay. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Detroit Girl. She's, yeah, it's, yeah, it's amazing.

And do you at least do, like, have anything to do with the casting, either the miniseries or the play for the person who plays you? Do you care? Well, at first I wanted Leon to play me because Leah and I were pretty close. You know, when we got the green light that it was going to be done on NBC. I had told us, hey, man, they're going to do the Tim's Life story. I would love for you to play me. He said, oh, this man, you know, you're my mom.

man, I'd be glad to play you. So the temps we went to Paris to do it one nighter. So by the time we came back from Paris, my manager, Shelly said, well, got the green light, we're going to do it. But I got to tell you good news and bad news. I said, okay, what's that? He said, well, Leon is going to be in the miniseries. I said, oh, good.

So what's the bad news? He's going to play David Ruffer. What Leon did while we were over in Paris, Leon went to get the pants that we used to wear back then, called the condone type all the way down. He wouldn't get his hair, you know, like David used to wearing the glasses. Wow. Yeah, and when he walked into the casting with all the powers to be that was sitting there,

Suzanne the past and him said, you play David Ruffin. And that's how he got the role. It's weird that you haven't seen it because one of the most iconic lines from it that's become an internet meme is, who has come to see you? You know, I've been getting that quest. Yeah, but I say, yeah, but look at me now, though. I'm still here.

Yeah. So when you guys started at Motown, explain to our listeners the idea of the charm school. Oh, wow. Going through, first of all, just the idea of, what was the idea behind wanting to present that? And sophisticated. look to America as a put.

What was it before and why was that such a revolutionary move? Well, I think, you know, talent a lot of times need to be cultivated. You know, you can have all the talent in the world, but it's one thing to know how to present yourself when you are, you know, really out on Front Street. And I have to get those accolades to a lot of people say Barry Gordon. Now, I have to get a credit to Harvey Fuqua. Harvey Fuqua was from the mungloes,

and he knew Charlie Atkins. And so in the process of Motown really becoming the, iconic label it is known for today, evidently Harvey, Mr. Medbin, Barry, and said, you know, we need to groom these talented kids. And so Barry felt as though it would be a good idea. And they opened up an artist development right across the street from Hitzville. We had to be there when it was time for us to rehearse from 10 in the morning to 5 to 6 o'clock in the evening. And it was headed by the late great Charlie Atkins, the late great Maurice King, who was our vocal coach

and Charlie was our choreographer Johnny Allen who would be at the piano and, you know, keeping everything you know, theoretically, correctly, correct.

And they sat down and they would tell us how to really carry ourselves. You know, it's one thing to have all a talent in the world. But if there's one thing I hate and I'm always trying to be cognizant of it,

I hate for artists get on, you know, do interviews. Well, them there doos and, you know, don't talk correctly. They said, you guys need to. They'll know how to talk, you know, because the world will be watching you.

And they taught us thing like four things, Maurice King said, don't get involved with. You can never tell nobody about how they spend their money, religion, who they make love to. And it's the full of when I, politics. Did I say politics? That. So, and we've had that occasion to come up, and I'm so glad that I had that kind of knowledge being taught at Motown, you know. So, but they really, you know, put a lot into us because they were grooming us to go, come to the Coppa Cabana in the smart rooms.

So we would have to rehearse from 10 in the morning to 6 in the evening. And it paid off because, you know, I look at a lot of the earlier films and I can see with the proper presentation and how to care ourselves and how to present ourselves in the sense of speaking, interviews and what have you. So it is one of the only company, I believe, that will, that ever had that, there will never, that will never ever be another motile. A win is a win. A win is a win.

I don't care what you're saying. Yep, that's me, Clivert Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, the reactions, my journey from basketball to college football, or my career in sports media. Well, somewhere along the way, this platform became bigger than I ever imagined. And now I'm bringing all of that excitement

to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show. This is a place for raw, unfiltered conversations with some of your favorite athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. One week I'll take you behind the scenes of the biggest moments in sports and entertainment,

and the next we'll talk about life, mental health, purpose, and even music. The Clifford Show isn't just a podcast, it's a space for honest conversations, stories that don't always get told, and for people who are chasing something bigger. So, if you've ever supported me or you're just chasing down a dream,

this is right where you need to be. Listen to the Clifford Show on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, Follow at Clifford and at TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok. This week on the Sports Slice podcast, it's all about the NFL draft, and we've got a special guest. The director of the NFL's East-West Shrine Bowl, Eric Galco,

joins the Sports Slice podcast to break down what really matters when evaluating draft prospects. From hidden traits teams look for to the biggest mistakes franchises make to the players flying under the radar. This is the insight you won't hear anywhere else. If you want to understand the draft like an insider, You don't want to miss this episode. Listen to the Sports Slice Podcast on the Iheart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast.

And for more, follow Timbo Slice of Life 12 and TikTok podcast network on TikTok. There's two golden rules that any man should live by. Rule one, never mess with a country girl. You play stupid games, you get stupid prizes. And rule two, never mess with her friends either. We always say that trust your girlfriends. I'm Anna Sinfield and in this new season of The Girlfriends

Oh my God, this is the same man A group of women discover They've all dated the same prolific con artist I felt like I got hit by a truck I thought how could this happen to me? The cops didn't seem to care So they take matters into their own hands I said, oh hell no

I vowed I will be his last target He's gonna get what he deserves Listen to the Girlfriends Trust me babe on the iHeart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. So would you guys, I know that at least in the 60s, to play the Copa, was like the dream. Yes. But similar to how Sam Cook would do it.

Like if you were playing the Black venue, then he did the show enough get down, you know, sweat off my brow. Right, right, right. Rebel rousing show. But if at the Copa, then it's suit and time. So would you guys? guys have dual shows depending on who the audience was? No. So even mellow mood temptations would play the Apollo to that particular crowd.

After we open up at the Copacus, we hold all the existing records at the Copa, we went to Apollo and we opened up with Holo Young Lovers. Really? Yes. And it worked? If that'd be greasy? Yes. Is that me greasy?

Yes. Yes. So it was almost like a job. Well, I saw Michael Jackson's ID card. So you guys would have to have these ID cards at Motown or at Hittsville. Not really. So it wasn't like... They gave them out, but, you know...

How are you losing that? Yeah, and then we knew who we were. You know, if we wanted them to walk through whatever department, hey, what's happening? Those tempt you out back in town, you know, so it never was nowhere real big thing. Oh, so wasn't like who you brought out? Yeah, right. So how many hours a day would you guys...

Rehearse. Rehears. And how did Charlie find that much time to devote to each of the acts? Because he literally was doing everyone from the 60s and the 70s. Yeah. And coming up with these ideas, like, what was this creative process to? You know, I tell you, when I first became aware of Charlie's choreography, the Cadillacs in Detroit. They came to Detroit.

Now, you know, Radio City is the largest indoor theater in the Maryland. Fox State in Detroit is the second. To see 5,000 people going crazy over with five guys are doing on the stage. And I said, that's what I want to do. Now, I was about 16 years old. So one day I met one of the Cadillacs outside of the Fox, and I asked him, how did they do all that?

Who taught him that? And he said, well, young brother, you know, if you should ever want to do what we're doing, look for a young man named Charlie Atkins. In 1969, we were at the Howard Theater at Gladys Knight and a big act, I ran out of acts. And Charlie was there.

And I said, oh, my goodness, that's Charlie Atkins. And I sat and talked with him, and he showed me, I still remember the first move. He said, if I had you guys on the way you do, the things you do, I show you what I would do. And he got them and did move and open his arms and then. I said, man, but Paul Williams was our choreographer of the Thames. But they would work it out systematically, you know, for the hours.

would have like our attempts you all would have from like one o'clock to four and then from four to five the Supremes would come in you know so they had it systematically worked out where he would give all the acts that needed to come into Motown for that a certain amount of time to do it but we had to be that damn near every day I mean it was like being in school so it worked oh yeah it worked so touring um with the with the Hitsville review um described to our listening to our listening to listeners, the difference between below the Mason-Dixon line, touring down south, as opposed to doing a show in Los Angeles? Or was it the same? Just... No, no, no. It was different. Down south. So did you dread, did you guys dread going down south? Not really, because we knew we had fans

that wanted to see us, because our record was breaking out all over America. But you can feel a different kind of wind chill factor when you got down in certain parts of the south. Like, I'm from Texas. And so we were on a Henry Wend tour, who was the owner of the Raw Peacock in Atlanta, Georgia. So he would always have these big rock and roll shows. So we got off the bus in Texas, and we wanted to eat, get something neat. And when we walked into this restaurant, white guy said, oh, we don't serve, and he used the N-word.

And we said, we don't eat them. And we had to find a place that we could go and, you know, that would feed us, you know. So did you guys use that travel guide? The Green Book? Yeah, the Green Book. Yeah, the Green Book. The travel guide that lets black artist and black travelers down south know what restaurants are safe or what. Now, we never did.

We just, it was a different kind of network, you know, because we would find out where to go there were people that, like Sam said in his book, that would house us as black artists, you know, because a lot of hotels wouldn't take us, you know, because we were black. So there were certain homes and places down there that would, you know, let us stay and feed us and what have you. Plus, you had, you also had white people on the bus as well. So if it was the case of getting to go order of 20-3 dishes without you guys having to go in, like. Not on our bus. Really? Really? Yeah.

Wow. Yeah. Yep. Yikes. Yeah. That's what we were saying. Y'all needed a guide or something. Yeah.

Well, we had the best guy in the world. God. Amen. He wrote us through all that. What was the city, the one city or state that you dreaded going to, at least in that period in the mid-60s, early 60s? Well, I hope I don't get in trouble. But Mississippi was going on. Mississippi, God damn.

Mm-hmm. That was her, y'all, not me. Yeah, but we were in Columbia, South Carolina, 1964, and the place was rocking. They had a rope right down the center of the auditorium. Right. Blacks on one side, whites on the other. So we were singing and saying, oh, man, this show ain't cool. You know, and said, okay, we came back, same venue, same city next year.

that Nick here. There was no rope. Black and white, sitting side by side, booty banging, high-fiving, and having fun. If it wasn't for the sweat that we were sweating, you would have seen five guys on stage crying, the power of music.

Were y'all then, so after that moment, because they showed that in the series too, but after that moment, did it change in the sense of groupies as well? Because it was it now safe to have, like, groupies of all colors? Like, did you see the difference in that? Well, the group is back there I mean, how did that work?

Like when the... You have to be very cautious of how you do that, you know. We always pretty much stayed within our color line, you know, because we knew how if you did that, like Chuck Barry said he did, and his head got, no, we weren't getting in the restaurant. No, no, no, no, no. I am not going to the Gray Bay Hotel, you know, so... Nice one.

The gray bar. Damn. You got some stuff. Otis. Oh, I love it. I've been told you. Ois you should do an otisism because that's the way my ear done. Excuse me.

What a hell of the ring. Oh. Hey, Shelly, I'll call you back. It's my manager. I'll call you back, Cheryl. Shelly's still in mind. Okay. Yeah.

See you later. Go on. See you later. I'm taking it. I got to write all this show down. See you later. Shelly. Shelly's been the temptation's manager since the beginning, correct?

1966. That's amazing. Yeah, he's getting ready to be 80 years old. And still going strong, still sharp, and still? Yeah, he'll be at the play. He's coming here because the stage temptations there are already rehearsing now. Okay. And I just talk with a couple of them.

So he's coming in to sit and watch that and make sure everything is going correct. That's amazing. So when you guys got to the late 60s and was easing into your psychics, psychedelic phase. Sure. I guess it starts with the Cloud 9 record. Yeah. Well, first of all, the addition of, is that when Dennis made his debut with the group? Yeah, yeah. Cloud 9 came about Gambling Huff. He was a friend of mine. Him and I were talking, Warwick Hotel right up the road. So as him and I were talking, we heard this boom, boom, boom, do do, do, do, do, do, do, do. So we stopped, we stopped and said,

who the hell is that? You know, with that because it was so different. So we listened. And the guy said, I was Sliding the Family Stone. So went back to Detroit. Now, Norman Whitfield had recorded, Ain't too proud to beg,

please return your love, I wish it would rain. So we were doing the ballads and what have you. So when we came back to Detroit, Norman and I, we grew up together because he played tamarine on my first hit with John May Matthews. So I asked, Norman,

I said, Norman, have you heard this group called Sliding the Family Stone? and Norman was very cocky No man they ain't heard no damn Slice on them I said well you should check them out man Because they're doing something that we should probably Check out because we were letting

David go at the time So Norman no no no You know he did all that Wolf and Gano so we went out of town Came back in here and recorded the track to Cloud 9 I said oh all right He used it inward old man Let's go on here and record this here

And we went in and recorded. Now, we were spoiled because most cases when we would record any of our records, like the way you do, things you do, my girl, and whatever, or it just run up the charts, just from R&B right on to pop. So when they released Cloud 9,

it was spooky, you know, because we had gotten so used to having hit, jump right on the charts right away. So about a week and a half, two weeks, almost three, we're going to say, oh, my God. Yeah, I said, oh, damn, we didn't, we're in the

dropped the one this one. Motton called. He said, well, it finally took off, you know, and I guess our fans were saying, what the hell did the temptations do? This is so different because we were just coming off a hit up. Please return your love. Yeah. And so it really, you know, skyrocketed.

And we got the first Grammy for the Tempts and Motown, and that was 1968, and that was Dennis' first big hit with the Tims. Time out. Yes. Motown's first Grammy in 1968? Yes, sir. They weren't, the Grammys weren't that.

I mean, the number one record. What the fuck? I mean, this is what you got to figure. Excuse me. That's all right. Steve gets old. You got to figure out, like, records like South Pacific and the mind of Bob Newhart was like number, like those records were number one in the 60s.

I'm sorry. The Beatles, the Beatles don't have a Grammy. Yeah, I don't think they do. Yeah, the Beatles don't have. Wow. So it's just like, early 70s, like semi-inclusive. All right, right.

You know, yeah, but yeah, that's, that is crazy to, to know that. But with, okay, I'm glad you brought that up because I always wanted to know. One, were you guys even aware, or at least Norman? I think it was more to Norman and less to you guys, but were you guys even aware of Sly Stone's kind of casual, flip off on high fun the summertime to you guys? Oh, somewhat. Yeah. Like, did you guys, do you guys know the story behind?

No, I don't know. Okay, so, uh, Rose's parts of hot fun in the summertime. Mm-hmm. Oh, bo, boo-boo, boo, what I want to do? Yeah. Was basically sly like, all right, we invented the, the breakdown, the boo-boo breakdown. And, you know, like, just bucking a little shot. I never knew that, but it was aimed at Norman.

Would feel. But did he, did he ever respond? he ever meet sly or do you know that i know of i don't know if he ever met uh sly because um no i don't he never mentioned it to me oh okay okay no i've always been curious about that because i think sly like finally revealed it like maybe 15 years ago that but uh as far as uh norman woodfield's productions um and the the the the the heavy militant militant message of the group far away from wanting to be at the Copa and, you know, how did you guys manage to convince Barry Gordy that that's the direction of the group?

Like a song like Run Charlie Run, which speaks of white flight in the most explicit terms possible. Like how did Barry take that? You know what, Quest, we were having so many hit records with, Norman, that when we made the transition from the ballots and, you know, straight up R&B, and went to Cloud 9, Norman told me one day, he said, you know, oldest bearing them don't even bother us anymore about quality control. Because every Friday, they would have what they call quality control. Everything that was recorded during the week, they would sit down at the end of the week.

And listen at it and say, yeah, and they what, hey, man, I think this needs to be a little more heavy base. and not too much to do all that kind of critiquing. And so Norman would be part of that. You know, he would be in there because he was one of the producers. But, you know, we were having so many hit records with Norman and that they never bothered us about whatever we would come up with. Because when Norman came up with that song, Run, Charlie, run, huh, the niggas are coming.

I said, oh, Norman, you got to be kidding. Yeah, but that was Norman. He was that kind of a creative person outside of the box. Were you guys at all confused about his... Like, I know that he was trying to, as a producer, present the cinematic scope of, you know, have a lot of drama in his music. So songs like Masterpiece will let six, seven minutes go by

before the vocals even start. Which is unprecedented. I mean, now it's standard. Standard, right. But back then it was like, I don't even, I don't even know that masterpiece had lyrics in it. I just assumed that the whole thing was an instrumental. I'll tell you some questions.

It's very interesting that you should bring that up because that was the song that made me say, oh, we got to leave Norman. When we were over in Australia, I met Belton. So they sent me a breakdown of what was happening. Excuse me. And the article said that Norman Whitfield singers. Wait, what? Wow.

Wait. The Norman Woodfield singers, and it was about a masterpiece. Boy, I mean, I was so damn mad. I called and said, so when we got back to Detroit, I told Bear, I said, we got to let our Norman go. Because when you listen to that masterpiece, it's just only a little small segment of us singing and everything else was all, it said, beautiful, elongated,

strings, horns, and do-d-d-d-d-d-d-all-all-all-all. And no, Mary said, yes, yeah, you're right, because we had such a great run with Norman. But, you know, when they started calling us the Norman Woodfield singers, I said, no, no, we didn't work all these years this hard to lose our identity. Yeah, just that quick. But that's the song that made me call and said, we got to go.

And Barry, there again, was always there for Melvin and myself. And that was the song that was the changing thing for us, leaving Norman after about eight or nine years of being with Norman. But what was this theory for making these songs 13, 14 minutes long? Well, normal was, you know, he was very innovative. He always wanted to be different from Smokey and Holland, Georgia Holland, and Ashtred and Simpson. So he definitely always kind of, after Please Return Your Love and when we ventured over to Cloud 9, he always started to think out of the box.

So like I said, the Run, Charlie Run, and the Cloud 9s and the, um, the, um, the, um, message from a black man. That was just his way of expressing himself of wanting to be different. And he just started thinking that way. And we could not get him to come back to the sweet ballets. The only way we got him to do

just my imagination, where I said, Norman, we're out there. We hear what our fans want us to do. You got to come on and get off that side. Yeah, yeah, yeah, man. To know Norman, very cocky, very egotistical. Wonderful friend of mine, but you have to know how to do.

deal with Norman. So he recorded just my imagination, and that was the last record Eddie Kendrick's did with us. And I saw us on Ed Sullivan, and we were singing just my imagination, and I looked at that. I said, boy, I wonder if the world can look at our face and said, those guys don't look to be too happy. Oh, next time you see it on, because they showed it the other night, and we're sitting there singing on little boxing, you know, looking just straight ahead, no emotion other than sadness. But, you know, that's the way it goes sometimes when you're dealing with very talented people.

I was asked. How hard was it to lose Eddie Kendricks as a singer? Because his, I mean, at least with Dennis. Right. And his raspy baritone. That fit in. But Eddie's falsetto is such a smooth life. Oh, yeah.

Yeah. Was it hard to lose? Yeah, it was rough to lose, Eddie, because he was such a talent, you know, for his singing. And he's been noted as one of the best tenets group-wise, yeah, in the business. You know, but I'm often asked about, Otis, when you need to find somebody, what do you look for? I look for, I don't look for talent first. So, see, that's the look I always would get.

You don't what, Otis? I look for head and heart. you can have all the talent in the world, excuse me, if you're asshole of a person, you're going to negate the talent. And that's it. I can vouch for that, actually, personally. I actually have all the talent in the world.

But being an asshole has totally been before me. It's unfortunate, but I'm accurate. When you, when you, first of all, how are the exits and injuries? I mean, I'm sure everyone in their minds, would like to think like everything was amicable. Nope. And you know, guys, I just...

No, no. Let me give my one month notice. Like, how... How are they executed? And how fast do you have to find, like? What was the network like? At least with the internet, I can go on and search and search. Sure.

I got a drummer instantly. Yeah. But... No, it wasn't like that for us. We were at the Copa. And at the time, Paul Williams, then they said it was Melbourne, Frank, myself, and Eddie. Eddie and myself got into an argument

So we were doing two shows at the Copa And we stayed right around the corner The Sherry Netherlands So I went back to the hotel Until it was time to come back to do the second show We ended up doing the show with four Eddie just said Kissed the monkey on the ball spot

I'm gone And we had to do the show at the Copa with four So there was no fellas After the show I'm going to leave Eddie said I had to deal with that kind of stuff. Oh, I mean, I can go down. In my home, it's a friend of mine that did a beautiful portrait of 22 different members.

I got to ask Renate to do a new one. Oh, yeah, now it's 24. Whoa. Yeah. And I was standing in my living room and look from Al all the way up until now. But I got to add Willie and Larry because they would be, yeah. Was there ever a moment where you were like, okay, just I can't lose mail? Like, was there a person?

Like, I just can't lose Melvin. I just can't lose. It just, we... Well, I didn't want to lose Melvin. Well, right, because in my mind, I'm like, who replaces Mel? Yeah, yeah. Well, you got lucky with Ray Davis. Like, if someone had to replace Melvin,

right. When I found out that Ray Davis was his replacement, I was like, oh, my God. That's like, because he always wanted to be a temptation. That's true. You know what I mean? So the fact that you got him. Yeah. It was a short-lived thing with Ray because he did for Love is on.

Right, just one project, right? And I would always send whomever would join the group to the doctor. We said, you have to be checked out because we have been told that we are athletes that just sing, you know, because at times we're on stage, we have to be on stage for an hour and a half.

You know, doing all that stuff, you better be in good shape. So Ray went to our doctor. So I always go and get my annual physical for what we do. So Dr. Hagar said, Well, Otis, I got some bad news to tell you, you need to look for another bass singer.

I said, really? Donkey said, he's not going to be here too long. Oh, man. Cancer. And now, Ray didn't smoke. It didn't smoke. And true enough, we had to let him go because of health reasons. Wow.

Yeah. But the guy that we have now, Willie Green, you know, people said, you, Otis, have found someone almost the equivalence of Melbourne. Melvinan. Yeah. Willie is a cold piece of work. A win is a win.

A win is a win. I don't care what you're saying. Yep, that's me. Clifford Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, the reactions, my journey from basketball to college football, or my career in sports media. Well, somewhere along the way,

this platform became bigger than I ever imagined. And now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show. This is a place for raw, unfiltered conversations with some of your favorite athletes, creators and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated. One week, I'll take you behind the scenes of the biggest moments in sports and entertainment, and the next we'll talk about life, mental health, purpose, and even music.

The Clifford Show isn't just a podcast, it's a space for honest conversations, stories that don't always get told, and for people who are chasing something bigger. So, if you've ever supported me, or you're just chasing down a dream, this is right where you need to be. Listen to the Clifford Show on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you're you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok. This week on the Sports Slice podcast, it's all about the NFL draft. And we've got a special guest. The director of the NFL's East West Shrine Bowl, Eric Galco, joins the Sports

Slice podcast to break down what really matters when evaluating draft prospects. From hidden traits teams look for to the biggest mistakes franchises make to the players flying under the radar. This is the insight you won't hear anywhere else. If you want to understand the draft like an insider, you don't want to miss this episode. Listen to the Sports Slice Podcast on the Iheart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more, follow Timbo Slica Life 12 and TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok. There's two golden rules that any man should live by. Rule one, never mess with a country girl.

You play stupid games, you get stupid prizes. And rule two, never mess with her friends either. We always say that trust your girlfriends. I'm Anna Sinfield, and in this new season of the girlfriends, Oh my God, this is the same man. A group of women discover they've all dated the same prolific con artist. I felt like I got hit by a truck. I thought, how could this happen to me?

The cops didn't seem to care, so they take matters into their own hands. I said, oh, hell no. I vowed, I will be his last target. He's going to get what he deserves. Listen to the girlfriends. Trust me, babe. On the Iheart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast.

You mentioned, you know, this whole thing is physical. You have to go to the doctors. How do you oldest preserve your knees? I mean, y'all performed on hard bottom shoes for decades. Well, this is your right knee now. I've had surgery on both knees, you know, from years of dancing, you know, and then rehearsing, you know. Can you wear sneakers now?

No, you're still going to do the hard bottoms? Yeah, yeah, I can wear pretty much. thing that bothers like going up and coming downstairs. But other than that, when it's time to hit the stage, kiss the monkey on the balls, right? I'm there. So that's the ass,

right? Yes, yes. Just check. Wait, speaking of stage, who invented the Temptations microphone stand? You know what? I have to give credit to David Ruffin.

When they were rehearsing a for the Copacabana, you know, Charlie Atkins, Lon Fontaine. So we were around rehearsing, and we had a moment just to sit and kick it. So David said, man, you know, if we really want to be different, you know what we should do, we should get a microphone that with four hits on it, and we can stand around that.

So we just, you know, kibishing and whatever. And Lon Fontaine, who was helping us do our choreography, he said, oh, I know somebody can do that. I said, really? He said, yeah. I said, well, we drew up a thing with the pole and the forehead and mic. I knew somebody at the Star Trek.

Back then, somebody connected with Star Trek. Wow. Fixed their microphone up for us. And I gave it to the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame, 1991. Really? The reason we stopped using it, because it was unique for us moving right there in that spot, but we wanted to open up.

We couldn't open up because the mic was just right there. And, you know, so after a while, we said, man, the mic is great, and it has worn off its novelty and what have you. So we stopped using it and wanted to be spread out of the stage. I always wanted to know when I was 20-something. I had a particular light stand. That was sort of like a boom mic that had two lights on it. Right.

But it would always fall over. And I always wondered how sturdy that microphone stand was. Like if one guy were to adjust it and throw off the balance, of it. Has that microphone stand ever fallen over? No, ever on it? No. The people did a great job of balancing it out with the foreheads on it, and they hit the support system on the H-mic that if I should move mine, it wouldn't tilt the others. He said Star Trek.

Yeah. That's, uh... Yeah. That's, uh, yeah. Okay, so it must be sturdy. Yeah, well. I know that in the mid-70s, kind of a little bit after the song for you, the house party era, you guys went to Atlantic. Well, I have Barrett Beck. I forget the album before it, but...

Really between... It was the first album with Atlantic. I got to look. But my question is, how hard was it to leave motel? Leave motel? And I know that, you know, the four tops went to ABC for a second and some art. The Jackson's went to CBS, so everyone was sort of making it. I'll tell you something that's very, and they didn't show this in the movie.

We still had time on our contract. You know, Barry said he got tired of running. Motown on a day-to-day basis. It was beginning to him, whammed down. So he started hiring like Abner, who used to be with VJ Records. Then Abner left, and

he had this guy named Barney Ellis that was running it. So we had a meeting with Bernie Ellis, Ralph Seltzer, the attorney,

Shilley, Suzanne the Paz and the Tempts. So Mr. Ellis, I guess he was pissed off because the Jackson and us had the same attorney, Abe Summers, a noted entertainment attorney. And he had engineered a hell of a contract for the Jackson's to sign with Epic. And so when we had the meeting with Mr. Ellis,

it was a windshield factor in the room. So he said, took his fist, bam soon as you all get rid of Mr. Summers the better things to be for you guys around here the room would hush I said

you say what soon as you get rid of Mr. Summers things will be a lot better for you guys right here I said oh no we're not getting rid of our attorneys because you guys got somebody people around here that we don't like

but I bet you won't find them because we don't like them so he pointed down at the end of the table to Ralph Seltzer, he said, if Abe Summers called, don't you answer his call. I said, oh, Suzanne sat there, Shelley sat there, the group. So I said, well, I guess that's the end of the meeting. So we left.

Marvin Gaye had to come in and have the same meeting with this guy. Susie Iketta, who was our project manager, she called me, she said, Otis, Marvin just left the meeting crying. I said, well, why do Barry have this guy running his axe off like this? So Barry was in La Costa on vacation. And he called me and he said, Otis, I am so sorry that went down. What can we do to rectify it?

I said, we want to leave, Barry. Silence on the phone. He said, well, what kind of money? can we get. I said, it's not about money. It's about respect now. We don't want to be here. So he was very saddened here then. He said, all right, I'll work it out and we'll get past this. And they worked that out. We left Motown and signed with, we almost signed with CBS, but it was predicated on Gamble and Huff presenting, producing us. Really? Yeah.

Whoa. Yeah. Well, Kenney and I go back during the early 60s. That could have been something. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. I mean, because CBS was getting ready to get up off a ton of money for us. But Kenny told me, he said, oh, this after I do the Jackson's, because he did the Jackson enjoy yourself. He said, no, I want to concentrate on my own act. He said, you know, I've always wanted to produce the temps, but I'm just going to concentrate on my acts. And I said, I'll be the hell. I said, well, Kenny, I can't argue with you because if this is what you want to do, you know, you got to do what you have to do. And so Jerry Greenberg, who was the president of Atlantic Records,

made a wonderful offer. And so Abe Summers worked it out, and so we went to Atlantic Records. But that's how we... So you guys didn't mess with Ahmed Erdogan at all? Like, I mean, was he... Oh, well, yeah, he was glad to... Okay, so it wasn't hands-on. Yeah, yeah.

Oh, yeah, he really wanted to snap, but Jerry Greenberg was the president of Atlantic at the time. So you're saying the leadership of Motown in the mid-70s sort of caused... sourness amongst. Oh, yeah. True be told, shame the devil, yeah. Wow. I'm learning all these.

True be told, shame the devil. Or kids, a monkey. Yeah, I'm learning. I'm learning all these terms right now. I'm glad to know, because it's funny. I was, in watching that series, I was like, so it's always been sunshine and roses with Mr. Gordy

in the temptation. That just was an odd. Well, you know, for Mr. Gord and us, yeah. We pretty much always have had a wonderful, you know, relationship, even today. And even in that part where, you know, and they introduce Shelley, it's an interesting practice back then

that I don't think, I guess, is not his practice now in the music industry where he introduced you guys to your manager, right? Back then. Right, back then. You see at the beginning, Esther Gordy, Barry's oldest sister, was our manager.

But I felt, I guess he felt, yeah. He was all up in. Who is a Barry? Mr. Gorg, yeah. He told my family, yeah. Yeah, yeah, but I guess he felt as though he needed somebody that could get us on there,

Sullivan's show and expose us to the big home. Yeah. Okay. Because he got us away from ABC records and we signed with William Morris. And that was a big bore around behind us leaving ABC because Shelley had to, well, like I said, it was some things with that. Went down that I won't go into too deep, but I've had a very interesting career. We see it a little.

But you guys returned in 80 with the power record. Yeah. Right. And he, so he, Barry Gordy produced that himself for. Yes, he did. Barry sat on power because we were at Atlantic and El DeBarge, excuse me, the DeVarge was still there. And he said, I knew you guys was coming back.

I said, really, Barry? He said, oh, yeah. He said, I know it was just a matter of time. He said, I had worked on this song, Power. He said, but I did not have a group over here that could pull it off. like I knew the Temp's wood because he loved Melvin's power up on that base. He loved Melvin's

base. That was before ProTool, so to do that seven minutes in a row, man. That's right. You're right. Okay, how many takes that? Like, was that a lot of cutting him face thing or he just straight? Straight through. Wow.

Straight through. That's hard, dude. Yeah. Yeah. He got behind that mic, close his eyes, and he would ball his fist, and he was down. just like a metronome right in their pocket. And Barry said, I knew you guys were coming back,

and we did power 200,000 immediately right out the gate. It was a riot down in Florida. The stations across the country got off of it because they didn't want the lyrics that was so powerful in power. Yeah. Yeah, they didn't want to incense it to go any further. and we were hard, you know, broken because the record was moving. It was gone, but that incident down in Florida made the disc jockeys back up off of it

because, you know, it was tenuous times even at that time. So was it your idea, I guess, in 82 and I guess to commemorate the, by that point, I don't know if it was 20 years or 30. I don't know how long. When did you guys, you guys officially started in 60 or 62? What? Motown? Yeah. Sixty-one. I say, I have a contract in my home that my mother signed.

Okay, 61. So, okay, so 82, when the reunion album happens, that's to commemorate the 20th. Whose idea was it to broker the... Our fan base. I have a saying that I have since been saying quite often a few people around me say, Oh, this I see what you mean when you said. The world loves us, but we did not love ourselves. We were letting matter what shouldn't matter.

Drugs. I mean, I'm just saying it the way it is. Yeah. Drugs. So the reunion was sort of bittersweet. Yeah. Did you guys tour behind that record or was just? Yeah, standing on the top.

Yeah, we were turned. Our first date was in Detroit, Michigan. at the Fisher Theater. David Ruffin came and he said, Otis, I promise you. I won't be doing all that crazy shit that I was doing before. I just want to get back in the group.

I promise you, I'm straight. I'm going to. Because I was the last man the whole lot because Melbourne was saying, come on, bro, let's do this here. You know, the fans want to say that. You were the last old day. I felt like it was your idea, like,

let's bring them back in. No, because I knew what they were doing even when I had my own set of temptation. You know, because I would see it. different time to time. And Paul, he was already gone because Paul had passed, what, 70 and 71 that bow. But I knew what David was doing. I knew what Eddie was doing.

And, you know, I'm not sitting at denigrating these guys because I love him still. But, you know, like I said, tell the true shame the devil. So even Kenny Gamma, we went to Philly, and Kenny has always wanted to produce the Tim. And Jimmy Bishop was the spearhead of trying to get it together. but I guess for whatever reason Jimmy Bishop bowed out. Wow, Jimmy Bishop, that's like legendary name in Philadelphia.

That's right. That's right. Yes. So anyway, we persevered. And I said, all right, Melvin, let's do this. So we got together and we started rehearsing and we got a very good show together. First day, well, we broke an end down

in a place in Texas, you know, the customary thing for us. go off and break the act in off the beaten path, so when we get on the shown off high visible road, we'd be tight. So when we got to Detroit, Fisher Theater, people wrapped around the building. And like I said, I'm not trying to denigrate any matter of the time we got there, ruffing was ruffing.

Yeah. Do you think that was a fear of his, like, what do you what what's your assessment of not being able to let those demon go demons go I've at least in my particular field I know that cats that that uh

all they have to do is just step up to the plate and do what they got to do and but he had a crazy upbringing too though he's right David had a crazy upbringing yeah yeah it was kind of but I always just wondered like him not being able to get it together.

I mean, obviously that stems from a fear. I don't know if that's survivor's guilt. I don't know if that's, you know, like... Well, of course, you know how to... Everybody can handle success. Success can be a strong affidioch, you know, and it's all... I mean, on the real side,

there have been so many different parties for us throughout our career that we were in Detroit, and I had to go off to myself and pinch myself. I don't believe this. shit is really happening. I mean, all kind of doors was opening up to us. I mean, all kind of adulation, you know, women, you know, all kind of things, you know, that if you're not strong from within, oh, yeah, it can bug you out, you know.

So, but we all handle success differently. But you also, you always, you mentioned, like, your mom signed your first contract. Like, you had a foundation. Yeah. And I know briefly in the series they mentioned, like, David, he said he was, like, raised by a pimp. And, like, he had all. So in that foundation, and a lot of y'all had some good, like even Melvin, you can tell, had like, the foundation, his mother was involved. Mama Rose.

Yeah. Yeah, but the roughen did. He had a very sort of life, you know, in the sense of, yeah. They called him at first, little David Bush. Yeah, because he was living with this guy named Eddie Bush. And so he took David under his arm wings and called him Little David Bush. David had about six or seven singles before he joined the Thames. And I would see him at various record hops.

And the brother was a whole piece of work, though. I mean, in the good sense. I mean, David Ruffman threw that microphone up, spin around, dropped to his knees, and there's the microphone coming down. He'd grab it and go on into his act. So one day he said, oh, this I want to sing with your group. And I was surprised because I said,

wait, wait, wait, say that train up. Say it again? And he said, I want to sing with your group. I said, boy, if you were to join us, we'd really be something else. He knew that we had a very strong reputation in Detroit for us group and doing what we do. And so he joined the group in 1963 when he started hanging with us. So it was six, you know, at the time because Eddie, Paul, Melvin, David,

now, Al, and then David. And we used to close the show with Shout. and we're at this place called Chappies Lounge and as we closed they kept calling us to come back so we went back two more times and the third time they kept calling and Al said man we've got to go back to keep calling us

so Paul said man what we're going to do we can't keep going back to closing with shout we've done it two times you know we've got to let it go Al was drinking and when Paul said No, we can't go back. Al said, M. Liff, I hit you with this bar.

Right. That was real. I was the only one that could listen, that Al would listen to. I was just a little bit off time because when I could read Al's eyes, his eyes would get that kind of focus thing. I said, up,

and by the time I tried to grab his arm, right across Paul's nose. Oh! I came out at the club and leaned up against the dough, came out of the dressing, leaned up against the dough, Eddie or Melvin and Davis. Man, what's wrong?

What's wrong? And they saw the look that I had on my face. I said, Al just opened up Paul's face for the bill of all. But check this out. Took Paul to the hospital. I said, Al, we're going to have to let Al go. I mean, Paul, we're going to have to let Al go. And no, oh, this.

Don't, don't do that. I feel we get ready to make it. So I'm not going to have that kind of fighting. I said, we can have disagreements. But I just thought his eyes was gone because he hit him until the death. Paul died here to scum. right across the bridge his nose. So we were at the Fox, and, you know, like I said,

Paul was the one that started us to be notified for our choreography. So Paul and Melbourne did this and movie where they would jump down and do the seal. Boom, no. The place at the Fox went crazy. So I said, hey, hell, come on, man, let's get a piece of the action. And I said, no, no, we're going to stay back here. We are the pretty boys. And that's when I said, got to let him go.

Yep. Got to let him go. And when it came off, I said, you got to go, man. Enter David Ruffin. And that's how the temp's, you know, the note attempts became what we are. A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care what I'm saying.

Yep, that's me, Cliver Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, the reactions, my journey from basketball to college football, or my career in sports media. Well, somewhere along the way, this platform became bigger than I ever imagined. And now I'm bringing all of that. excitement to my brand new podcast, The Clifford Show. This is a place for raw, unfiltered conversations with some of your favorite athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated.

One week, I'll take you behind the scenes of the biggest moments in sports and entertainment, and the next we'll talk about life, mental health, purpose, and even music. The Clifford Show isn't just a podcast. It's a space for honest conversations, stories that don't always get told, and for people who are chasing something bigger. So, if you've ever supported me, or you're just trying to be. chasing down a dream, this is right where you need to be. Listen to the Clifford show on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your

podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok. This week on the Sports Slice podcast, it's all about the NFL draft. And we've got a special guest. The director of the NFL's East West Shrine Bowl, Eric Galco, joins the Sports Slice podcast to break down what really matters when evaluating draft prospects. from hidden traits teams look for to the biggest mistakes

franchises make to the players flying under the radar. This is the insight you won't hear anywhere else. If you want to understand the draft like an insider, you don't want to miss this episode. Listen to the Sports Slice Podcasts on the Iheart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more, follow Timbo Slica Life 12

and TikTok podcast network on TikTok. There's two golden rules that any man should live by. Rule one, never. mess with a country girl. You play stupid games, you get stupid prizes. And rule two, never mess with her friends either. We always say that, trust your girlfriends.

I'm Anna Sinfield, and in this new season of the girlfriends, Oh my God, this is the same man. A group of women discover they've all dated the same prolific con artist. I felt like I got hit by a truck. I thought, how could this happen to me? The cops didn't seem to care. So they take matters into their own hands. I said, oh, hell no.

I vowed I will be his last target. He's going to get what he deserves. Listen to the girlfriends. Trust me, babe. On the Iheart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Was there any interaction with ex-members while they were on their solo ten years? Like, did you guys feel like a certain way about keep on trucking or? or any of David Ruffin's stuff in the solo period or even...

Well, I was happy to see that David and Eddie were able to still do, you know, because very talented guys. Now, my whole world ended. That was originally written for the Timps. But Norman Whitfield, not Norman, Harvey Fuqua and Johnny Bristol, they could never get it to us because Norman Whitfield was a string of hits, string hits. So when David left, they put it on David, and that's the originals that's doing that.

background on my whole world ended. And, well, Eddie, you know, I knew Eddie would always be successful because he was such a unique talent singing with. So Frank Wilson, when he did keep on trucking and then buggy down, you know, Eddie was very, very successful. Who, in your career, as far as production is concerned, you guys worked with everyone from the corporation to Norm Whitfield to Rick James.

Rick James, Al McKay, Berth went of fire and all his cats. Even, what, Benny Medina even worked on the reunion record? I've never seen his name there. Who, what is your preferred, not effective as far as who brought us the most hits,

but who was your favorite producer to work with as far as who really understood the group who was pleasant to work with? Oh, I would have to say Smokey first. Okay. Smokey being a group singer. Smoky was always organized when he would bring us whatever song, the way you do the things you do with my girl since I lost my baby.

He left the background harmonies up to us. He showed us the basic part of the song. But Smoky was always organized, easy to, you know, work for, record. Because when we did, My Girl, how that came about, he came and saw us at the 20 grand, a noted club in Detroit. And after the show, he came back and he was marveling on how great we were. looked at us and then he looked at David. He said, I have a song for you. And so us being young, dumb, fuller, you know what. He said, man, bring it on. We can sing anything. And we came here

to L'Apolo. And we, smoking them, our headline, we were co-stars and a few other actsas on that. So in between the shows, we would rehearse with smoking. And went back to Detroit after rehearsing with him for my girl. And he put the background and the leaves on. And And when Paul Reiser came and added the strings and horns, Smoky was sitting at the console, you know, working the boys. And I said, Smokke, I don't know how big a record this is going to become, but I think we got one on our hands. The record was recorded that fall of 64.

They released it December 28, 1964. We were at Apollo, February, 1965. Barry sent us a telegram, congratulating us, it's number one, solo for a million records. The Beatles sent us a telegram congratulating us, and I still have those telegrams at home now. But I always think back that, and I said, I knew this song was going to be something.

I knew the song was good with the essence of us. But when Paul rises ahead, the strings and the horns, it gave it a whole other daylight. And true enough, when we do that song today, it's like people growing up out of the ground like trees. They just started standing up. And we made the mistake like years ago, the record did what it was going to do.

So Paul was in charge of the rundown. He said, well, we can take my girl out. He did what it's going to do. So we took it out. We did the show. Quess, y'all, they called us every name except the child of God. So we will, that is, I tell the guys, even today.

I said, there are certain songs we can never, ever take out. My girl. just my imagination ain't too proud to beg can't get next to you Papa was a Rolling Stone losing you now treat her like a lady

so like we have a new record out now album out now and so I'm tasked with hi in the hell I'm gonna do this here because we only have a it's gonna be a four hour

show yeah man how long is the average temptation show hour and a half to pack all this hour and a half I mean with banter

in between and non-metblies. Just one hook, right? Like, just go to one hook and then go to the next song. Well, we got... Y'all remember this song. Yeah, no, we work it out where. Well, like, ain't too proud. We do all of...

Ain't too proud. We do all of My Girl and do what you do. Fortunately, you know, we try not to never cheat our fans because they paid their money to see a show. Right. But, yeah, you know, an hour and a half, you know, we try and insert as much as we can. so they can say,

whew, Bart Jim's still jumping around, you know, after all these, which that's what they're saying now because we just did a big show outside of Maryland, and it was packed,

and I've been getting calls by man, and the most amazing thing. He said, but the CEO is still up there keeping up with the rest of them. I said, I'm not keeping up with them. They keep up with you. Right?

Yo, what do you say to, like, the young artists who, you know, there are some artists who may be two albums in that are tired of doing their song that was the big hit. Quit. Anytime.

you have fans that spend their hard earned money to come see you and you're going to tell I'm tired we don't want to do that then you should leave it alone I want to do all my new stuff they should leave the bit get out the business that's what we think too when we're in the audience but you know see yeah well I'm artists and I'm telling them

that's the attitude you have get out of business people spend their hard-earned money to see these songs and you don't want to do them because you're tired tired of doing them yeah I want to you the end word of, please. How, of the groups that you guys have inspired, especially the 70s

onslaught of groups, everyone from Blue Magic to Boys to Men. Dynamics as periods. Well, I was just sticking in the 70s, but I mean, even, well, I mean... New edition, yeah. Well, yeah, just... In sync. At least, at least, no, no, hang on, hang on, hang on.

No, because the thing is, is that I feel like when it's 20 years down the line and it's someone young, then you're more willing to accept, like, yeah, I influence them. Oh, okay, I get where you're going on. But how did you guys feel like with the onslaught of all the 70s groups that are based on you guys? And I mean, like, all those groups, the choice for the...

Chapments and... Yeah, enchantment, like, just all those groups that have the same breakdown, a falsetto guy and a baritone guy. Did you guys feel a certain way or... Well, you know, of course, we took it as a compliment. You know, and when you sit, I mean, I take it all the way today. When I watched Bruno Mars, when he did the Super Bowl a couple of years ago, I saw three important elements in his show.

James Brown, Michael Jackson, and the Temptation. Now, he's here in the 21st century. So our influence reach from now all the way back then runs the gamut. And whenever I see somebody that's doing us, I say, okay, I like them, because the tempest has influenced them. So you can't do nothing but take it as a compliment. You guys cover Bruno on the new record, right? Yeah, we did one of his songs, yeah.

And remember the time, right? Yeah, remember the time. I tell you when I got the list, and they said, oh, just pick out what you want to do for the new album. Mike had invited me down to the studio when he was recording. Remember the time. And him and I were in his trailer talking, you know, and when they said, Mike, we're ready for you,

but him and I was sitting in his trailer talking about days of yo, because I can tell you what brought back to mind because we were talking about we were in Chicago when Jesse Jackson had operation. Operation push. Yeah. And they had the 10 of us on stage.

So when I guess the girls said, uh-oh, they're getting ready to come off the stage, all these women and girls start coming to get on the stage. So one of the security guys said What are we going to do to protect these guys? There's 10 of them. Somebody said, get a U-Haul truck. They got a U-Haul truck.

They put the 10 of us in there with security And it was pitch black in there But Mike said, where's Otis? Where's Otis? And somebody cut the light on inside the truck. And I said, Mike, Mike, I'm right here. I never will forget the look that he had in his eyes of love. Now, mind you, he didn't ask about his brothers.

He didn't ask about the other Timbs. Where's oldest? And I said, I'm right here, Mike. I'm right here. And he looked up there and he had the damn this little, I love you looking at his eyes. But I was there at the taping of Remembering the Time. So when I saw it, I said, oh, no, we got to do Remember the Time

because it gave me that kind of remembrance. That's so cool. In your entire catalog, if you could just, what to you is your three personal quintessential favorites in the Temptations catalog right out the gate my girl so even though

you performed it every day of your life and that's you that one I had saying too proud to beg because Norman brought that track to my house because we all lived in Detroit and I said man the track is

too you know so ain't too proud it would be the second one You know, I'm a big temptation fan. I could go a lot longer than three, but... You're going to only pick three. Just my imagination. Okay, what one under the radar song that... I was going to ask that, yeah.

Never really made it like a favorite of yours that didn't make it. Like, when do you think that deserves a second look that didn't get a shot the first time? Now, this is one I really enjoy listening at, and it was the guy that worked at Motown named Steve McKeever. Man. No, Steve. Hidden Beach. Yeah.

He used to work at Monday? Yeah. Yeah. Oh, okay. Oh, yeah. He said, oh, this, that elevate eyes. I said, really? I said, I've always liked it.

Wait. See, I hear elevator eyes. That's a whole thing. I work in 30 Rock. That's HR. That's HR. We didn't laugh at him. We get sent to the principal office for elevator eyes.

Oh, yeah. Well, young lady, she's since past. She was a forensic time. Psychologist and her and I were talking. She said, oh, this, have you ever heard of the term elevator eyes? I said, hell no, I ain't never heard of that. And she said, well, if you are working in the

blue collar field and a young lady walked by and you be to my now, baby, you show, oh, yeah, excuse me, and go and continue to work. She can go to the human resources. HR? Yeah, exactly. Use your job. Wow. Oh, so we're not alone. Oh, so we're not alone. I thought there was something that we just

made up in 30, right. But what made me really said, oh, okay, you're not the only one. Oprah had a forensic psychologist on her show. And asked her the same thing. She said, no, I've never asked it. Well, I don't feel like booed the fooling if Oprah ain't heard of. And I said, you know what, Kathy? I'm going to write a song called Elevate Eyes.

And a young lady wrote me, text me, and she said, oh, this you need to do something with that elevate eyes. So that would be one that I really, and it would kind of be apropos with what's happening with the Me Too thing, because this song tells about how you really should, you know, you can see a young waiter, but you don't trespass, you just let her know she looks nice and what have you.

Your peripheral. Yeah, uh-huh, but, you know, you have to watch that. But that one, I told her I'm going to still work that out and find somebody to do it because the lyrics and the track, you know, it's tight. Now's the time. Yeah, it is. I see. My last question.

How come you didn't sing more prominently on the lead? Go ahead. You're on point, because I'm. I was the lead singer when we were at the distance. Because Billy Maya, valet, he went on the internet and found, Open Your Heart, and what else did? It was another song that I did. But my thinking was when we got to Motown,

and, you know, because it wasn't like I couldn't sing lead on it. I just say, man, I don't ever care who. It's singing as long as we make this money. And it wasn't like, wait, wait, bro, you're getting paid more? Because you sing Lee? Oh, hell no. I want the same lead, so it wasn't that kind of thing. Oh, everybody got the same.

I was wondering about that. No, no. Excuse me. No, no. Everybody got the same pay. But then that's weird, Otis, because since you were founding member and then, so Melvin, but regardless, if it's a new guy, whatever, we all the same. Yeah, that's where it was.

Wow. Yeah. And, but Tom Bell, we did an album with Tom Bell, and he recorded us, and I was just humming something. Tom stopped me. He said, you don't want I should be recording. I said, really? Why you said it?

He said, I like your voice. I said, oops. Too late. We had finished recording. But my attitude has always been like, hey, man, I just want us to make it. My ego didn't get hung up on the thing. Well, I got the same lead. I'm the group leader.

I found this stuff. No, it wasn't that with me. Let us all make money and be successful. And that's it, you know. But I guess I never did really make any real bones about it. just did you make boat what about the the writing process because you said earlier on you wrote some songs for the temptations but did it continue on because it sounds like i'm still writing okay yeah uh on our latest album um temptations all the time i did uh along with two other guys

waiting on you uh elevator eyes um treated like a lady yeah yeah so uh no i i love writing when i can you know get a chance to do it so yeah that's my other thing of doing it well I knew you have another 300 years in you. I love you, Chris. Yeah. Yeah. I'm more, like I said, I'm going to ride the hair off the horse. When I get off the horse, it'll be bald.

And that's how we have to end it. Yo, thank you very much. I love you. We're coming on Quest Love Supreme. Yes. Thank you. Thank you. We have a boss, Bill, Siggy Steve,

Witt's Laia, Fanciclo, and Unpaid Bill. This is Questlove of Quest Love Supreme. We will see you on the next go-round. Thank you. Course Love Supreme is a production of IHeartRadio. This classic episode was produced by The Team at Pandora. For more podcasts from IHartRadio, visit the IHartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,

or wherever you listen to your favorite shows. A win is a win. A win is a win. I don't care what I'm saying. Yep, that's me, Clifford Taylor the 4th. You might have seen the skits, my basketball and college football journey, or my career in sports media.

Well, now I'm bringing all of that excitement to my brand new podcast. The Clifford Show. This is a place for raw, unfilled conversations with athletes, creators, and voices that not only deserve to be heard, but celebrated.

So let's get to it. Listen to The Clifford Show on the IHeard Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more behind the scenes, follow at Clifford and at TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok. This week on the Sports Slice podcast,

it's all about the NFL draft. And we've got a special guest. The director of the NFL's East West Shrine Bowl, Eric Galco, joins the Sports Slice podcast to break down what really matters when evaluating draft prospects. From hidden traits teams look for to the biggest mistakes franchises make to the players flying under the radar. This is the insight you won't hear anywhere else.

If you want to understand the draft like an insider, you don't want to miss this episode. Listen to the Sports Slice Podcast on the Iheart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. And for more, follow Timbo Slical Life 12 and TikTok Podcast Network on TikTok. When a group of women discover they've all dated the same prolific con artist, they take matters into their own hands. I vowed, I will be his last target. He is not going to get away with this. He's going to get what he deserves.

We always say that trust your girlfriends. Listen to the girlfriends. Trust me, babe, on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. This is an IHeart podcast. Guaranteed human.