The Questlove Show - Broken Record - Beastie Boys and Spike Jonze

Episode Date: July 16, 2020

We're bringing you a special episode today from our friends over at Broken Record! We had an amazing interview with Rick Rubin, and wanted to share a piece of his world with all of you! Enjoy this special discussion between the Broken Record team and the Beastie Boys and Spike Jonze!"It's been nearly 35 years since the Beastie Boys released their classic debut album, Licensed To Ill. In this candid conversation, Rick Rubin, who started out as the Beastie's DJ, reconnects with Mike D and Ad-Rock. Spike Jonze, who directed the new Beastie Boys documentary, Beastie Boys Story, also sits in and plays moderator. It's been nearly 20 years since Ad-Rock and Rick have talked and like old friends, they jump right into a slew of inside jokes and hilarious memories of their lives leading up to the release of Licensed to Ill.Subscribe to Broken Record's YouTube channel to hear old and new interviews, often with bonus content: https://www.youtube.com/brokenrecordpodcastYou can also check out past episodes here: https://brokenrecordpodcast.com/ " Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

It's been almost 35 years since the Beastie Boys released the all-time classic, Licensed to Ill. And while some of the records' lyrics and antics sound as dated as a Porky's movies, the album is still exceptional. For Beastie Boys fans, Licensed to Ill is a glimpse into the lives of MCA, Ad Rock, Mike D, and their first DJ and producer, Rick Rubin. Their debut album is a pastiche of inside jokes and musical inspiration pulled from the classic rock and hip-hop records they listen to in Rick's college dorm room.

Rick recently connected with Mike D, Ad Rock, and Spike Jones, who directed the new Beasties documentary. With Spike playing moderator, they teleport back to the early 80s and talk about their lives leading up to the release of Licensed to Ill. It's all here, the inspiration behind Brass Monkey, Rick's infamous bubble machine, and why DJ Double R bailed on the Beastie's first big break, opening up for Madonna on her like a Virgin Tour in 1985. This is Broken Record. Liner Notes for the Digital Age. I'm Justin Richmond.

It's been about 20 years since Rick and Adam Horowitz have talked. And like most Zoom calls, their reunion gets off to a glitchy start. Mike D kicks things off. Oh, there's Adam. Hi. What's up, sir? Rick, you look different. It's good to see you.

You look the same. Yeah. No, that's a lot. That is an abomination. Mike, you look great. Don't start, Adam. Don't start. Don't start. Rick, first of all, very nice to see you.

It's been a long, long time. The last time I can remember us speaking was at one of the Tibetan freedom shows. You have a good memory then. I don't remember that. And that had to be, but I mean, just time-wise, putting a timestamp on it, that was at least 20 years ago. It's unbelievable. It's surreal. And it makes no sense. I mean, from my perspective, it makes no sense.

I'll say, I don't know why it worked out that we've not hung out in that amount of time. I've been so busy, you know. I can remember there was a little window of time that we started spending a little bit of time together in Los Angeles, right when you came to Los Angeles after I was already there. And I can remember we had lunch at Hugo's. God damn, I don't remember anything. Oh, yeah. Going back to the Hugo's days.

Mike, we're trying to talk. Pasta a la Mama, yo. Mike, we're trying to talk right now. We hung out a handful of times, and I remember seeing you, and I think something happened that I don't know what happened at the party for the Blood Sugar Sex Magic album. It was that album. That's what happened. Oh, my God.

I got daggers today coming with all cylinders, you guys. We can see, we can see, we can see. Wow, I'm in a mood today. I think Adam, for your along with your daggers, I think you need a bank of sound effects, like, you know, a dub siren. No, no, no, I'm just in a mood.

Let's get all the dagger out. Let's do, let's... So what's the show, Rick? What happens on your show? What is it? I wouldn't call it a show. It's usually a conversation. and I talk to different artists and they tell me stories about what they do.

It's not unlike what happens in a recording session before the music gets made. Just bullshitting. That's typically what it's like, just kind of, and especially if it's someone that I don't know, learning who they are. Can I start with a question, which I know is, but I'm just curious, so I want to ask it. Do you find that you more often find out things that you don't know about people that you do know when they're doing your show, or do you find stuff about somebody you do know that's doing your show more in an unexpected way than somebody who you don't know at all who's doing your show, where you have no background? In both cases, I learned a tremendous amount about the people I'm talking

to. It's maybe more unusual with people that I know because I get to talk about things that we don't normally talk about. Like, I was thinking about, even from the time that we knew each other back in the day, stuff we never talked about. Like, I wanted to ask you guys about high school. Like, I don't know what your experience of high school. I was just curious. Like, wow, I was around. It was about the time you guys were just either just ending high school or just recently ending high school. I'm like, what was that like? We never talked about that. Well, it's funny to think, actually, as you say that, because we spent so much time in your dorm room, I've never once pictured you in a class. I had no idea.

I never even thought that you actually attended classes. Yeah, I didn't attend many. Right. Well, and interestingly, conversely, when we were in your dorm room, Rick, it's because we were not going to school. Right. So it's like, yeah, but it's true. That's a good point.

We never, ever talked about. I never ever asked you about NYU ever. We just, for our perspective, we just thought, wow, this is cool. Like, this guy lives in a dorm. He's going to college and we're in high school. Yeah. So this is cool.

We were like, we thought you were going to be the cool, like you turned, you know, you were like the cool, like slightly older guy. And then, and then also mistakenly, I think we thought, wow, we're going to be hanging out in this dorm, which just means we're going to meet like tons of girls. And this is going to be great. And we never talked to anybody. But it was not like that. I mean, for you, like.

Adam, what was your school experience like on 63rd Street? Well, I was, I went, I was supposed to go to Brooklyn Tech because I wanted to go to Stuyvesant, but I didn't get in. And so I went to Brooklyn Tech. And that was just too weird. That's a whole other story. But tell it, tell that story. What was weird about it? No, Brooklyn, like, I wanted to go to Stuyvesant because my best friend, Arthur, went there. And, and I didn't get in. So I went to the other school you could go to was a technical school in Brooklyn. And it was massive. And they had like metal detectors to get in. And it was just, just, just, huge technical school. And I quickly realized after like the third day, like this is not for me. I don't know what the fuck. It's fright. It was just so overwhelming. Looking back, I wish I would have actually stayed and learned something technical.

Actually could have helped me. But so I just stopped going to school for a while. And then my dad got me into the school, McBurney. That was a private school uptown. And I was there for a couple years. And then I stopped going probably right around the time I met you. And not that the two things, not that two things are related, I'm just saying. Yeah.

What was the experience like of the school? Like, what were the kids like? The experience going to school, because I was also, I got into graffiti because we were into graffiti. And so, like, that was the fun part about getting to school is just like being on the train and watching this, you know, just seeing who was on there and all that stuff in the school. The first school was just overwhelming. It was, I can't even describe it. It was just huge with thousands of kids. It was just a massive school.

And then McBurney was like a preppy school. It was like a, I don't know, I just felt really out of place there. I felt kind of dirty, like my clothes are dirty. But can you tell us the story, Adam, why you never returned to McBurney? Oh, yeah. So they had, the school play was going to be Oliver.

And so they had auditions. And I sang for the auditions, consider yourself at home. and I'd never really sang out loud before and I was so bad that I just left the school that never went back. Incredible.

But I always say, I think you'd be a good, artful, like, Artful Dodger? Artful Dodger, yeah, I know. Like, even now, I, then, now, in between, you got my voice.

I know, but it was singing. I can't, as you know, I can't sing. I mean, I can, but it's just bad. Yeah. Yeah. It's not your, you know, you're not rapping forte. I get it.

Adam, did you get into graffiti before hip-hop music, or were they simultaneous? Later, later. Hip-hop later? No, rap music first, definitely. Oh, okay. And do you remember what were the record stores that you guys hung out in? Do you guys hang on record stores all? I know you hung out at Rat Cage, but was that like the first record store where you would like spend time?

But like the rat cage, you were at, like, that was the first record store where I, like, I felt comfortable talking to the person. behind the counter. I would go to Bleger-Bobs all the time, like get off the train coming home from school, and I'd go to Bleaker Bobs, and I'd be terrified because Bob was always there. He'd yell at you, he'd yell at me, and he had that huge Doberman tincter.

It was scary, and yeah, and they were always mean to me. They were mean to everybody. You'd always say random, weird, Jewish stuff to me. I was just like a little kid. I just wanted to find out about what cool, what was new, what was cool. and I didn't know, and they were so mean.

But then it was cool. I do remember going to 9-9 record. Yeah, that was where I hung out. I loved 9-9. My memory of those days were that the whole schedule of the day was based around going to the club. Did you guys feel that way as well or no? Oh, yeah.

Like that was really the primary thing every day was what club was going to be that night, if there was going to be a band, if not what DJs to go to see and where to hang out. Well, that's why the Rackage record store was great because it was the first record store that kids hung out at, for me at least. You know, the other record stores that I used to go to,

you know, kids wouldn't really hang out. Bleaker Bob's maybe, but I didn't like it there. And so Rackage was like a meeting, like a hangout place. And later your dorm room was that place. Well, as you were saying, Rick, definitely going, moving the needle forward alone like when we would hang out with you and we go to your dorm room, I remember like every day, like it was just kind of like go to your dorm room and then figure out what we were doing that night. And what we were doing that night always revolved around what club we were going to.

I remember it always being around music, even during the day we would make mixtapes and sometimes sit out on the front of the dorm with boombox and listen to music. And it seemed like that's all that it was, that's all it was going. And all that seemed important was music and what we were going to eat and what we were going to listen to. And Mike was clearly focused on hooking up. Little did we know. I was interested. I wasn't very good in that arena yet.

But yeah, but I was interested. Where did the original Volkswagen emblem come from? That was from my friend Laura Shulson It was a lot of her wall So wait wait I don't understand But was it on her wall on that chain I don't remember I think she just had it on the wall

She took it off a car And for some reason I had it And then put it on a string And then you took it That's what I love about being a teenager How much stuff just sort of goes from one kid To the next to the next I just I remember

I feel like you and Yowt came over and it was like you gave it to me. In a glorious presentation? Yeah. I like in my revisionist history, I feel like, like, it's almost like I feel like I was knighted. Like you guys gave me. It was bestowed upon you. It was bestowed upon me and then I could become Mike D. I'm going to dispute that because think about it.

What have I ever given you, Mike? I feel like I remember, I feel like I remember. this happening though. I feel like I was there for that. Yes. The bestowing, the bestowing. But I do be like, and I don't know how it ended up being on the chain, Adam, because I don't think it was on that chain. Somehow like that chain was like sitting around. I don't remember that exactly, but I remember them once I started wearing that, it was kind of like, then it was like, I felt like, all right, I could, I could be my D now. That was your Superman cave? Yes, it was. Wow.

Rick, when you first met these guys, what was like, what, what are, can you think of a time where you, there's some times when you were like, oh, I get them. I understand who they are. Like, I understand who Yauke is or who Adam is or who Mike is. Like, what was your sense of that? Well, I remember meeting Adam first through Dave Skilkin. And I remember Dave Skilkin was sort of the, in my mind, the glue. Like he was a kid who was just super friendly and outgoing, which I don't think any of, any of us were. I thought we met, you and I met because of Nick Cooper. Could be wrong. I remember Nick Cooper, but I didn't remember that's how we met. I do, Rick, remember Nick Cooper telling us about you and being like, yeah, there's this guy.

You got to meet him because we put cookie push out. We really needed a DJ. It's like, you got to meet him. He's into, like, the stuff that you guys are into, and he's a DJ, and he's got all the equipment. And according to Nick, remember, I. I asked you, he's like, he's got a bubble machine. That was his big line. It's true.

I see that Adam? It's true. Rick is confirming the bubble machine. Well, it's true that I know. I had access to a bubble machine. Access. Yes. I never.

I know. We were writing the book. You were like Rick didn't have a, you were. No. I said the bubble machine and you're like, I don't think so. And then you called Rick. And Rick was like, yeah, I don't know about a bubble machine. I was like, you both are crazy.

Because there was definitely a bubble machine. There was a bubble machine. Why else would you want to meet someone? Exactly. Oh, they have a bubble machine? Okay, I'll go. The funny thing is, is that the bubble machine was something that just was at the dorm. It's like, and when I heard that there was a bubble machine there, it's like, oh, wow, we got to have a party.

We have a bubble machine now. So let's have a party. And that was where the bubble machine story began. Hey, Rick, I'm curious about like just what your relationship with each of them was like. I can remember spending the most time with Adam, and it seemed like our friendship had mostly to do with music, because that's what we, we just listen to music all the time, as I recall, and DJing in music. And then I think I met the other guys through the story of Cookie Puss after Cookie Puss was already out, and then wanting a DJ. and then I came to a couple of shows and DJed after the live set, as I recall. Hard to remember first impressions.

I remember seeing Mike before I met Mike at Negril one night, and I remember someone saying, oh, that's one of the guys in the Beastie Boys. And I remember thinking it was just like, it was just a weird impression, not good or bad, just like he's a kid, feels like maybe my age, maybe a little younger, and he's in a band. And I remember he was, I think you may have been pretty inebriated that night, Mike. And I just remember thinking, wow, this guy seems like a little like, seemed like revved up, you know, like revved up.

Like tough, tough guy, Mike, you mean? Like, he's just like bad boy? No, no, no, no. Just like enjoying himself. Like he was hitting it hard. Yeah, he goes hard. in the paint. He went hard in the paint. He was going hard in the paint. And it was impressive. Come on, Mike. I don't remember being inebriated that night, which doesn't mean that I wasn't.

But what I do, I do remember is two things. One is that was a really, really important. For like us, for you, Rick is like a part of us like, because that was like where we really saw like hip hop came. I talked about it in the book where hip hop came downtown. And all of a sudden, there's the treacherous three. And then I think it was like next week was Avriga Ben, and Jazzy Jay if it wasn't that night, whatever. And it was like just, it was the most exciting thing. But so my thing in terms of compensating, I think, there's like, of course, I was completely, it's funny because I think about, I think back on those Negril nights.

And I think, wow, I was like so intimidated. I was so scared to be there. But I was loving every second of it. There was no, like, club night maybe that was more influential or exciting to me. but I was compensating for being intimidated probably. And because I was with my group of friends, I was probably acting like, oh, yeah, I got this. But I definitely didn't have it at all.

Rick, what did you know about Beastie Boys at that point? What was your impression of them? Had you ever heard of them? I don't think I knew anything. I think the first thing that I heard of the Beastie Boys was Cookie Post, which I loved. And I remember I was in San Francisco, and I heard it at

she was a writer and a... Ann Powers. Yeah. I think it might have been Ann Powers. And I think I was staying at her lofty place and I think I heard it there. I don't know if she played it

or if I heard it on the radio in San Francisco when I was there, but I remember the connection of being at her house and hearing it. And I thought, wow, that's really cool. Because I was really, really into hip hop at the time. and felt like it was the first punk rock expansion towards hip hop. That's what it felt like.

It was as much a punk, I would say it was as much a punk rock record as it was anything else. Compared to hip-hop records, it was punk rock. But compared to other punk rock records, it was more hip-hop. And I remember thinking, wow, it's really cool. And it had a, and I remember laughing at it and laughing at it with it. you know, like laughing with it thinking, this is really funny.

It's really good. And I remember, I remember the, I remember Yauk and his motorcycle jacket and his long raincoat. And at one point, I felt like him and Nick Cooper kind of had a similar raincoat vibe. You know that raincoat vibe. Yeah,

I don't remember how I met Nick Cooper. But I remember that, to me, it felt like an anomaly. But in both cases, The raincoat vibe was not something you saw kids in New York wearing. Like it was a, it was a fashion statement to wear a long, somewhat dressy raincoat. Yeah.

Yeah, the raincoat vibe played strong. When I first met Yowk at this Bad Brain show at the Botany Talk House and he was the only other kid my age who was there, I was like, wow, the kids wearing like a trench coat and his combat boots and his. like hair spiked up like this kid's really cool yalk actually kept that raincoat thing for that trench coat for a long time yeah that vibe worked yeah i was gonna say also remember yowk's obsession with the bad brains like it felt like nothing else in the world existed other than the bad brains and um he kept that going for a long time too yeah and i i uh remember as a as a music fan seeing that sort of obsessive dedication and just thinking, wow, he's really, again, going hard.

Like, he's going hard for this thing that he loves. Do you feel like you got the answers that you wanted? Yeah. Oh, actually, I'm always curious what, I mean, when you're like 18, it's kind of hard, like, how would you describe somebody you meet? It's kind of hard because it's more about like what common interest, like having the same music interest. but did you have a sense during like just not knowing these guys then how you would describe each of them

I never really thought about it I did feel like I definitely felt that I felt like um the the place that I grew up in and the people I was around and where I grew up had a big impact on what I what I saw what I knew and I felt like their life experience was very different than mine, and it was just interesting. And in some ways, I thought it was a good thing, and in some ways I thought it was a bad thing from my perspective. And what way was it good and what way was it bad? You're talking about like a Long Island kid versus a city kid kind of, right? Yeah, I would say, like, they had better access than I had, because this is pre-internet.

Like now, everyone could find out anything they want about anything. Where I was, it was hard to find out anything about anything. I'd spend a lot of time in the library doing research. And even that research wasn't sort of cultural of the moment research. It was just what I could learn about the things I was interested in. And then spending a lot of time in record stores is my closest way of having any connection to culture. Because where I lived, there wasn't, it didn't really exist. Although there was a club called, there were a couple of nightclubs, and I did get to see like the specials played in my hometown, which was remarkable.

On the downside, I felt like maybe by living in the city, it might narrow the view of what was cool. Like, I didn't know what was cool coming from where I came from. And the beauty of that was, I could see and hear everything. There was very little peer pressure about that where I lived. Whereas I could see if you were in the city, there was stuff that was cool to like and not cool to like. And that could have a limiting effect. I mean, I guess, yeah, I heard Led Zeppelin playing from other kids at school. But because, and kind of like, to your point, I had already, like, decided, like, I was so set on making my identity.

about being into stuff that those kids weren't into, I couldn't hear Led Zeppelin. But then when we were in your dorm room and all of a sudden, you know, you put on when the levy breaks, we're like, what's this? It's like the best thing ever, or like ACDC or, you know.

What are your, tell me, Mike, first, tell me your memories of the dorm room. First of all, it's the first college dorm I'd ever been in, period, because we were here in high school. I remember like just being intimidated like going up to the desk and I guess it must have been like maybe Mr. Rick, Rick Medillo at the desk and like having to get the pass or whatever to go up in the elevator being, you get the visitor pass because we're visiting you. And then I remember being kind of confused because you had a roommate, but then you, I think you had a roommate, right? I actually need you to kind of like explain this to us. But I think you had a roommate when we first. went there, but you had this huge

PA in the dorm room with like two Sirwin-Vega, you know, there's like the biggest PA I've ever seen like somebody that I knew have. And then with the turntables and like the drum machine and everything.

And so we loved it and were impressed so it was all this equipment, but I was very confused. I was like, wait, how is Rick just like and we were listening to music really loud in your dorm room, and I loved it. And I loved it. But how are you, how is this guy able to do this and like not get kicked out of the dorm room and where's this room made? Like, it was just a lot of questions. Yeah. Yes. All of that.

Adam, what were your, what were your memories of the dorm room? I, you know, first of all, I was looking for a place to be, basically, you know, sort of in life and literally, like not going to school and needing somewhere to be. But also being around, you know, older kids. is cool when you're younger, you know, intimidating, but you know, kind of cool. You're like, oh, you kind of think that you're one of the, you know, older kids now. And it was just, it was just cool. You know, you, especially going to your dorm room, you had just the records, the stuff like, you know, two turntables, a drum machine.

I was like, I loved it. I didn't have, you know, I didn't have that stuff. I didn't have all those records. So it was great. I loved it. I mean, yeah, like, Ricky, you talk about access and, yes, we do. We did have, like, growing up in New York City, like when we talk about it in the book and the show, whatever,

like it was a huge thing to us that we would just hear music all around us or that we'd go to rat cage because we'd want to find out what's happening that night. And somebody said, oh, this thing is happening. And we would just go there because we had this access as teenagers. But in your dorm room, it was just really exciting because I said we would, I remember, like, I was my, I was, again, like, kind of confused, but so impressed when you would come off you would uh i felt like you would come if they delivered it to you or if you'd come back every week with like a crate records from the record pool yeah and you remember

that and then we'd all go we'd go through them and put like basically everyone on to see what was good what we like what we didn't like whatever we listened to every 12 inch from that week and that was such like an exciting thing like i didn't i didn't have the like i had the money to get a single like a rap single every once in a while. But I certainly would never think and never had the money to buy two copies of the same record. That just seems nuts. And so to go to your place and you had two copies

of all these singles that I loved. And it had two turns. It was just amazing. You know, it was nice to see you too, obviously. Should I feel used? I never did get that bubble machine access. Right. Little.

But then also, I think, and Adam and I've talked about this, like there was, it was interesting. we felt like we were trying to just think back at like, you know, when we first, like, we met you and then we started working with you. It's like you had, especially like once you started, when you started producing, uh, with us and like producing our records, it was like, you had this confidence, Rick, that was like, you know, it's not like every, either, any of us were like, well, Rick, what record have you done? You know what I mean? Like, and we're all, whatever,

we're all of, it's 17, 18 years old. But it's like, you have, had this confidence, like you knew how you wanted things to sound. And looking back at it, like, I'm just so impressed, honestly, with that. Like, who, it's, they got to be pretty rare that somebody at, like, 18, 19, 20, 21 years old knows how they want, like, what types of records they want to make. Yeah, it's weird. I definitely knew I had a clear vision of what I wanted to hear. It really as a fan. It wasn't, it was more, I just loved it and I knew how certain things made me feel and I wanted more of the ones that made me feel good and less of the ones that didn't make me feel as good. And it was a very pure, it was same way, same way that you connected to it. I just, and I think maybe part of it might have been that I didn't have brothers or sisters.

You guys both had siblings. And I think that changes it. it's like I spent most of my time until I started hanging out with you guys by myself so it wasn't the the only opinion that I was around was my own you know I didn't have an older brother playing me music I didn't have I didn't have it all sort of had I had to find it and and see what resonated with me and it had very little to do with the people around me because like in my high school Nobody liked punk rock. I was the only person who liked punk rock. So I had no sense of community at all. When I started listening to hip hop, at least there were a couple of kids in my high school who liked hip hop.

Well, I'm going to change the subject for a sec, because there is something that I wanted to know, Rick. Yes. So, Spike, I don't know if you know this, but so we got the gig to open for Madonna on tour. And Rick was the Beastie Boys DJ, DJ Double R. And we played a couple shows. and then he was gone. And he said that his doctor said he had an inner ear situation that he couldn't fly. And so I thought that that answer couldn't fly. And so now I'm asking you, Rick, did you just not want to do it or did you really have an ear problem?

100% true. Both answers are fine with me. No, no, no, of course. 100% true. I went to the clinic on 14th. There was a ear, nose and throat clinic on 14th Street. I know. I had never been there before.

And I went there and they said, you have a terrible infection in your ear. You got to take these drugs and you cannot fly. If you fly, you'll probably lose your hearing in that ear. So that was and we, and I, it's funny because I don't remember us talking about it, but also

maybe part of the reason we didn't talk about it was because the tour was already ongoing wasn't it? It was like we were I feel like we did like No you don't you flew out like you started the tour with us in like Seattle and Portland or something Yeah and then for some reason you had to fly back to New York but we were still on tour and you were you were supposed to meet us again

like in Los Angeles or something and then instead of meeting us you were like you you know, you had the ear infection. Yeah. Now we're finding out it was legit, but at the time we were like ear infection. Well, I'll tell you everything, feel free to ask me,

everything was always legit. It's like I don't, I would have loved to, I loved being in the band. I loved doing the shows. It was, it was completely thrilling. I loved it.

I feel in some ways, it's like the universe has this incredible power to affect my ear and make me stay in one place and then it led to me focusing all of my attention into production instead of being in a band which could have been like it could have been

that could have happened and it just sort of worked out the way maybe it was supposed to I don't know it feels like in retrospect looking back I would have never made that choice while I'll say I didn't like traveling. I loved the experience of playing in the band. It was super fun. I thought the shows

were great. Like I can remember, I can remember us playing at Radio City and just how much the audience didn't like it. And I just thought it was incredibly punk rock and fun. Yeah. I can remember Madison Square Garden and thinking it was in, it was just like, we're playing at Madison Square Garden. Can you believe this? We didn't even really, we didn't have an album out. it was unbelievable right what were the shows like rick uh it was it was funny because we got to do the the crazy beastie boys show and lean into the craziness of uh of the sort of heel persona the bad guy persona and in front of an audience where it was completely inappropriate which made it even funnier. It's like it's like if you're if you're if you're if you're if you're doing a punk rock show

in front of a punk rock audience there's this camaraderie there and if you're doing a punk rock show in front of people who are not feeling it it really gets punk rock it's like it gets it gets elevated to this other thing not for anybody but us. I mean I I I found it thrilling. I'm I know the audience hated it but that was sort of part of the fun of it. why they even more than hated it and I think that's where it became thrilling to us was that like these 12 year old girls

and maybe more importantly their parents were genuinely horrified they were they were repulsed I mean and to be right and to be fair we're a bunch of like little white kids yelling at them on stage like you should be it's like what was offensive

yeah and yeah and for the regular like Ricky you know you obviously had a big, that was another thing, like, along with introducing us to to heavy metal, Led Zeppelin Sabbath, ACDC, you, we also, like, the wrestling thing was never cool. That was super uncool to us, right? Because we were these punk rock kids. It's still uncool to everybody.

But you were totally, you led like this, like, vocabulary in that world, and you immediately saw, like, this opportunity with the Medada tour that, like, it was like obvious to you like no guys what do you mean you're just going to be it's just like wrestling you know which is pretty weird to think about most people don't think about

like if you have a band that's going to open up for this somebody who was like a cultural icon who couldn't have been you couldn't have had a bigger on the planet at that moment Madonna like the biggest star in the world most people just thinking like how do you put a good show together

and you saw it through this totally the other lens. It's like, no, it's obvious. It's just like wrestling. Well, the other part of it was is, no matter what we did, the audience was there to see Madonna and they weren't going to like what we did regardless. Right. So to really lean into that idea of, well, we're the weird, the bad guys here.

We're the enemies. And to overcome that to play it with all this bravado, like you're here to see me. It's just so ridiculous, so funny. Adam, do you remember the stuff you said? I remember you said some really funny. Come on, you guys most remember. The best and biggest line was, I am the king of the Paramount.

Like, whatever theater we are at, that's how Adam would open up the show. I am the king of, you know, Madison Square Garden. Do you, Adam, do you see the humor in this? No. Really? No, of course I do. It's hilarious. You have this face like

I didn't like it. No, no, no. We also just did this show a bunch of times in the movie and the whole thing. So it's fresh in here. It was amazing. It was hilarious. It's not a wild idea, but it's a, it is a great idea.

You know, they're not going to like us. They're certainly not going to love us. they might possibly be like, eh, I didn't like that. But if we can guarantee that they remember us by saying,

I fucking hated that. And I will hate this and have this memory of hatred for a long, long time. That's an interesting way to get your music through to somebody. Yeah.

And it worked. It worked. And we, but I remember at the time like being convinced, like, because it was like, we looked at it

and this like, B-boy way of like, yeah, we're going to make a name for ourselves. And we did. Hey, Rick. One thing I wanted to ask about just is a production on the first record.

We talked about it a little bit in the show, but obviously we have so much stuff. But that, like, as a fan, there's some bands that take a while to form, and then some bands that just come out fully formed, like, in that record. And even just actually the way these guys described you with the competence, it sounds like you kind of came out fully formed in some strange, you know, amazing way. What was the process of that first record? I can just remember that every time there was a good idea, we would make a new song. And I can remember the, I remember two parts.

I remember the lyric writing, which would be basically every night that we went out to the clubs. I remember trading lines only with the hope of making the other member laugh. Like, I would always say stuff that I would think would try to make Adam laugh if we were hanging out. And if he laughed, I would write it down. and just collecting lines. And we would all do it back and forth and collect up these mountains of rhymes. Not so much with a subject or a song in mind.

Most of the time it was more just good lines. Then I can remember being in the studio, sometimes with Adam, sometimes myself, just making tracks, because it's what I was always doing, and would just make tracks, and just trying to make something interesting. And I don't think I could separate it in my head,

but I knew the beats for LL were different than the beats for the Beastie Boys, and the beats for the Beastie Boys were different than the beats for Run DMC. And it seemed clear to me, but I can't put a finger on what was different, but I knew as we were making them, it's like, oh, this one, this one feels like an LL beat.

And this one feels like this could be a really good Beastie Boys record. Those, those like gated snare drones. I don't know. I can't say. I can't put a finger on what it was. Do you remember sometimes making the record where it's like, oh, this is what, like, it sort of gave clarity to what the whole record is, like a decision, a beat, a lion? No, I remember I was in Electric Lady working on the cult's album, Electric. And I got a call from Mike.

And Mike said, hey, how come our record's not done yet? Do you remember this, Mike? No, not at all. This was amazing, because I think this was like you guys were on tour. I assume this must have been post-ear infection. Well, no, no, we were probably on Raising Hell by that point. And I remember like a somewhat heated conversation where you were like, dude, you didn't say dude, but like the equivalent of dude. Right.

Why is, I mean, we're on tour. why is our album not done? And I said, you know, it doesn't, and I remember, it's like, it doesn't just happen. Like it doesn't, it's not not happening because I don't want it to happen. It, each of these things arrives when it arrives. Do you know what I'm saying? It's like, we didn't go into the studio every day with the idea of, okay, we're going to make something today.

It was more like making beats in the dorm, listening to records, like coming up with what a track was going to be, which sometimes it'd be six weeks or two months between songs. It was a long period of time. I can't remember from the time that we made whatever the first song was for that record until we made the last song. I'm guessing it was 18 months. Could have been two years.

It felt like a long time. And so I'll see the other thing you guys talk about in the show, Mike and I'm talking about in the show is going away on tour and coming back and you'd finished the record and mixed it and they were surprised that it was this big thing where they thought they were making a sort of more lo-fi punk rap record talk about that was that something you always saw you always knew that that was the sound not at all I in any case there was no preconception or what something was supposed to sound like it was just making it sound as good as it could sound for what it was whatever it was it's like same is true with LL or same is

with Raising Hell. It wasn't like there was no thought to it. And the gated snare thing was like a, it's interesting you bring it up because it was a, it was like a moment in time. And I think it was really, what was the art of noise was the, it was the thing that got everyone excited about this kind of drum sound. And that was probably like experimenting in that art of noisy way that led to that, It's my guess. If you had Art of Noise 12 inch and Man Parish 12 inch, which one would you put on first? Both. I like the both.

You can't put on both first. No, it depends on the scenario. It depends on the scene. So you read a room? Yeah. The roosters are going off. Can you turn the fucking roosters down in the mix, please? Rosters are feeling it.

The roosters are deep in the paint today. Oh, God. I wanted to ask Mike and Adam about their memories of Chung King also. Oh, man. Yeah, Chuck, that's a good question. Well, a few things. I remember, I remember, I think I was, we were with you, Rick, and we were talking to and Jay Burnett was like, oh, you guys got to work at this place.

I don't think he said Chung King. We named it Chung King. He's just like, oh, you got, oh, it was called Secret Society then. That's right. He's like, you got to work at the studio, my friend's studio, Secret Society. he was like talking about that I guess like the Neve console or something that stuff that's a kid I didn't really understand but he was all excited about it so we were like okay bet and then we go there and it's just kind of like you know we don't really know about studios but it's just like

bummy yeah you know like it's not like nothing there's nothing fancy about it it seemed like every other week like we go there one week and the next week like walls like they always kept moving walls around. Yeah. Do you remember that? Yeah, I do. I remember because it was kind of a loft space that the guy built out and he was just kind of moving stuff around. It was a weird place. I remember

when we graffitied, we graffit the wall behind the console. And at first, like, I kind remember we got yelled at and then it became the thing of the studios that everybody came there and did graffiti while they recorded. I remember the first time that we went there

psyched. We're going to go to recording studio. I've been to, like, the young and the news was recorded at a nice recording studio. And this place was like a fucking dump. Yeah. It was fucking literally a dead fish in the fish tank.

And it was dark. It was like super dark. Like, everything was dark. I was like, why, why is it? Why are we going to this scary, like, haunted house? Remember walking up? It was like five flight walk up. It was dirt, dingy, dirty place. No, I remember the elevator because it

It was all graffitied and somebody wrote their name. It was all this graffiti and someone wrote Jose Minas in the top corner. And every time we got in the elevator, we thought that was the funniest name. And it literally, we laughed every time we were in that elevator because Minus is a funny last name. I feel like we laughed a lot at Chung King. Yeah. Well, and on the way there and on the way out, like it was just, that's like I think part, one of the key things about license to ill, was making it, it never felt like we were making an owl.

Like, it just felt like, exactly what you just started. It was kind of like, that was just part of, all right, wake up, go to your dorm room, listen to some records, you know, go to cozy soup and burger, then whatever club's going on that night, and if there's an idea, studio.

It wasn't like now, you know, the cult, like Adam said, like, it's not like we were making an album for this amount of time. And actually, it's funny, when I think back at you talking about me calling you and making that phone call and asking, like, what's up with the record? I kind of, now I'm thinking back at it, and I remember we were on the Raising Hell tour, and I remember Run, being really excited. Run and Russell getting me all excited. Like, you know, like, you got to call, like, what's taking so long with your album? Like, you guys should be, like, run, because he'd heard, like, by then, you know, he was so excited about hold it.

now, which was a hold it now was like one of those songs like we're talking about like we were out of the club I remember like we I remember we went in there and just played like around with like a bunch of different like scratching things in off of records and

I think we even put down the verses and then I remember you and Russell kind of like hearing it after we've already already done some stuff and you specifically being really excited about it. I loved it. You were like actually more excited even than we were, where you were like, yeah, this is it.

Like, this is what you guys need to be making. Yeah, it was mind-blowing. I loved it. Oh, you know, Questlove just told me a story the other day that I wonder if you guys know this. In Philly, when Hold It Now came out as a single, the version that was released to radio was the Acapella, which we called the Acapulco. And so in Philly, people thought that the song didn't have a beat.

Or any music or anything. It was just vocals. Yeah, and it was just vocals. And he thought, wow, this is the craziest record I ever heard. It's just this rhyming. And he said, and it was really well liked in Philly, even though it was such a crazy, you know, the first rap record not to have any music. And it was a hit. and then when the album came out

and it had the beat, nobody liked it because they were used to the acopella version which they thought was just like the greatest thing they ever heard. We were talking to him and he was saying something it just reminded me of words that we tried to force into like common, you know, speak. We'd pick

random words, be like, oh no, this is what people say now. I can't why am I blank? I'm kind of, I'm like I'm blanking on him so bad. But we used to, we picked like a few different words. Yeah. Or phrases. It would be, sometimes it'd be a phrase too.

Like, you'd hear someone say something at the club that was just normal to them. And we would laugh. Brass Monkey came from Jazzy Jay talking about what he liked to drink. And just like, yeah. It's like, what's funnier than Brass Monkey? Oh my God. Brass Monkey is, that was a crazy night with Teelerock. Tell me.

I don't remember it. So you were producing a record. for a rapper named Tila Rock. Yes. And we were going to go to the studio with you. Because we just, that's also what I like when you're young. You just go with your friend wherever they're going. Like, it's just funny to think about going with your friend to their job.

Like, no, you can't come to my job. I'm working. What are you doing? And so I didn't think about it. The place was in Queens or Long Island or somewhere. Long Island City. It was like, we had to take a car. It was really far.

Yeah. And me and Skilkham were there, and it was just nuts. It just seemed so grown. There was like grownups that we didn't know. I don't know Tila Rock, but it was like a real rap scene. It was just weird. And then Jazzy Jay passed around a bottle of Brass Monkey. And me and Skilkum were like, this is fucking delicious.

Yeah. I didn't know that you guys actually drank it. Oh, yeah. The whole night was crazy. And then we got separated and two separate cars. And we were like in Long Island. Like, where are we and getting White Castle? Anyway, this was a really, it was a nice night.

Yeah, I remember going, I remember taking cars to White Castle. It was hard, in Manhattan, it was hard to get White Castle. I know, probably for the best. But what do we say? Because rope a dope, like in late 80s, rope, I'm just, I just remember one word, we'd say, that shit is dope. And they'd be like, that's dope. It's rope and dope.

And then we were like, we was like, oh, that's rope. And nobody. Roep did not last. Roep. We said rope fall. We said that a lot, but it did not last. That is so funny. It's too bad because it's kind of great.

Nobody else was like, oh, that's rope? I forgot rope. Rope is great. Rope makes it sense. We got to bring back rope. Rope is really funny, though. It's explaining the joke. It's not that good.

I feel like Flavor had a lot of the, Flavors, normal way of speaking, had a lot of references that could work their way into songs. Like of everyone we hung out with, Flavor was a gold mine of phrases. I just want you to know, the last time I saw Flavor, I was in my car in New York, stopped at a red light, and he got in my car.

And I was just like, what? It's like, someone's getting in my car. And it's flavor. And he's like, yo, what's up? Take me to like 36th Street. And so I drove him. I was like, all right, good to see him. Wow.

It was fucking nuts. Did you guys go to at all to the studio when Public Enemy he was recording? No, I just remember going to the radio show, the Spectrum City show in Long Island and doing that, and I remember just like listening with you and on our own and then when we're on tour, like listening to the demo

for the song, Public Enemy Number One, like, I mean, on repeat. Like, I don't think there's a single demo. There's probably no demo that we listen to that much, maybe no single song that we listened to so incessantly. It was, that was so mind-blowingly good. It was incredible. I remember listening to it all the time. I'm trying to think, what were the other things that were like that were like,

they really took over our lives for a period of time? Can you remember? Oh, Eric, Eric B for president. Yeah. Well, I didn't say that schoolie G, schoolie G. Schoolie G. Schoolie G. School of G. School of G.

Yeah, school G. Yeah, PSK. Holy funny people. And nothing but squares. Remember how many times we had listened to that in your dorm room and everywhere else? Like, yeah, especially that thing of like school, like schooling these whole intro are that thing. Like, nah. It's too good.

No, school. What time is it? What was his DJ's name? Code money. Code money. Got your feet of out. Code money. Code money.

Code money. Why code? Code money. So good. Oh, man. Such good records. So funny. I mean, I guess, whatever, we are of a certain age.

But we will talk about often, like, it is incredible how many great rap records were coming out, like, 1988, 1988, 1989, like, just mind-blowingly good rap records. I'm trying to remember which were the, what were the other ones that really, like, moved the needle for us? Sucker MC's was everything. Obviously, right. They read DMC were the, I mean, they were the archetypes. They were like, you know, I mean, and Jay talked so much about performing and how to sort of put a rap show together. And how to, you know, I think that along with you, how to put a rap record together. Was there anything else that we had that wasn't out?

Like with the public enemy tape? Probably as a demo. I remember Biz Marquis was out. I remember when we heard that first. his marquee 12 and talking about it with DMC and Jay and being really excited about it

You had a demo for Slick Rick Children's Story Rick Oh I remember love that Right Right

Right well because that was another thing I mean laity doting the show We must have We must have listened to laity dotty the show Again Unquantifiable amounts of times Do you remember the story Of where let me clear my throat came from

I have a vague, I have a memory, but I don't know if it's accurate. No, tell me. My memory was that on LL's demo tape that you found in the box of demo tapes that came to the dorm, before he started rhyming, he said, let me clear my throat. And I remember that we, for whatever reason, it was the funniest thing we ever heard. I mean, there was, it wasn't, there was nothing funny about it. But somehow the idea that that was the first thing said before the song starts. I know.

It's so easy to take that out now, do you know? It's so, it's so easy. But back then you couldn't. You just, you didn't know how to take stuff out. And just whatever you recorded was on there. Yeah. Yeah, it was, it was nothing. but for some reason, I remember we latched onto it's like,

this is just the funniest thing we've ever heard. We just latched onto it. And I can't remember how it ended up getting into the song. I'm sure you were like, wait, you should say, you should scream that really angrily. That's funny. It's so dumb. But again, the beauty of it.

It's in such a different context, too, though, on our song, as opposed to his demo tape. Yeah. Well, that's the beauty of the montage of hip-hop. That's how, like, recontextualizing things that you find in the world. Yeah. Yeah. Any other memories of dance atyria?

I feel like that was sort of the place that I remember we went to the most. So many. I mean, so much. So many. All right. Where are we started? I mean, really that. I just, yeah, that was one of the first places we would talk.

of girls. I thought you were just claiming junior high school status. You're doing all kinds of things. You're in the mix. No, but, no, all right. Dance here, I would say, like, for me, just, like, hearing, you didn't know. There were, like, the songs that you would hear every night, like, APB shoot you down or new order confusion.

You'd hear, like, every single night. Or Dindon, Dindon, George Frost. Medium, medium. Medium, medium. My favorite, top three favorite things of dance interior was being on that dance floor room, second floor, just in the corner by the stairs, we'd always be hanging out. The music would be playing, people would be dancing, and there was some guy in the middle of the crowd would be like, work that body. Work that body.

And it wasn't just like once. It was like every night. Yeah. Memories of the Roxy? I remember the Roxy. I remember two things. I remember Africa Bambata playing Tony Basil. Oh, Mickey, you're so fine, at the Roxy.

So, like, I'm there, like, a white kid at the Roxy Theater. It's like the most B-Boy place ever. And here's African Bambata, one of the most important hip-hop DJs ever. And he's playing Tony Basil. Like, you know, there's nothing that I thought of rap, like music. Like when I associated with Tony Basil, and I was just like, wow, that's incredible. He could make Tony Basil,

oh, Mickey, you're so fine, work in the Roxy. That and then I just remember being scared to go to the bathroom. At the Roxy. Roxy was just like dudes like selling Coke and getting high. And like shit was scary. I just felt like I was going to get robbed in a bathroom. Yeah. Me too.

Well, that, that, I remember, because I went to Roxy when I was a kid because it was a roller skating place. And so I don't know how to roller skate, but it's like a thing you go and hang out at the roller skating place. And so then later, a few years later, Roxy was a thing where we would go to, you know, the disco.

And I remember when we were there, I don't know, it was the first time we were there, but then like fucking shots rang out. And someone had a gun and was shooting and people running. I was like, this is not the same thing from when I was 11, 12, 12, you know, whatever. It was a place.

You put a bunch of teenage dudes in the same place, some weird shit's going to happen. Why is that? It is the case, but why? Teenage dudes are stupid. I don't know what to say. I'm thinking about the Hey Mickey reference that Bambata used, and that probably led that,

hearing that there probably was a step in why the song, It's Tricky, got made. Oh, I thought you're going to say world destruction and for him. Because it's like the same beat. Yeah, because world destruction is like the same beat. Yeah. Yeah, I just remember it's tricky being like feeling,

there were certain vibes that you would feel at a hip hop club that stood out that were different than the others. It's like, hmm, how do you incorporate that? Because that definitely feels good. Like we're in the club. This feels great. That's now part of the, language. Like that felt like, okay, that's part of the language in hip hop. It'd be if you were in a band

and somebody in a band did a waltz beat instead of a 4-4 beat and you'd say, oh, that's a new part of the vocabulary. You can write a song with a waltz beat. I'm not mad at a waltz beat. I got, you know, I got tons of songs of waltz beats. Oh, wait, one thing, Rick, I did want to say is you were talking about how, I don't even know how to explain people, or maybe it's not even worth trying to explain, but like we were talking about opening for Madonna, but that it's also, it's very interesting. Obviously, we've changed a lot through the years, but it's, it's interesting to me because people know, I feel like relate to us or a lot of people know us just from like license to ill

Beastie Boys. And then there's a lot of people that grew up with us for a lot of stuff, whatever, but a lot of people know it's just like in that incarnation licensed in all time. And I think it's interesting with you, you were like such a big part of like when we were opening up for Madonna and this like this whole idea of like persona. But then people actually know you now, like from your persona now, not from like how you would talk then.

And I don't even know how to explain when I try to explain to people how you would talk in sort of like when you're excited about like pro wrestling and how you would do that. I don't even know how to capture it or explain it. Yeah, it's definitely a ramped up character inspired by like Roddy Piper would be one of the key. Rick Flair, the guys who you'd want to see lose and who would often find a way to win through cheating. But they were the funniest. They always like the bad guys.

In wrestling, the bad guys have the best lines. So they were the most charismatic and funniest characters. so I would put on that air. That's to do with youth, Michael. Youth don't give a fuck. Thank you for doing this. Great to see you, Adam. I miss you.

I love you. And I look forward to continuing, bridging the years that we've missed. Love you too, Rick. Nice to talk to you. Thank you, Rick. It's great to see you. Spike, a pleasure.

I miss you. I miss you back. See you later, you guys. Bye, right. Thanks to Mike, Adam, and Spike. for taking the time to catch up with Rick. You can hear all our favorite Beastie Boy songs, plus the other songs mentioned in this episode

by heading to broken record podcast.com. And be sure to check out our YouTube channel where you can find some great bonus material from past episodes. You can subscribe at YouTube.com slash broken record podcast. Broken record is produced with help from Jason Gambrell, Mia Lobell, Leo Rose,

and Martine Gonzalez for Pushkin Industries. Theme music's by Kenny Beets. I'm Justin Richmond. Thanks for listening. I'm